Something You Should Know - The Powerful Advantages of Telling a Good Story & Why You Need To Change Jobs

Episode Date: October 10, 2019

Do you know people who claim they can focus and work just fine in a messy and disorganized office? Well researchers at Princeton did some research to see if this is really true. Listen and find out what they discovered. https://unclutterer.com/?s=scientists+find+physical+clutter For centuries humans have used storytelling as a powerful way to communicate. And it is very effective. That is why great speakers and leaders use stories to make their point and win people over to their side. Carmine Gallo, keynote speaker and former journalist is the author of the book The Storyteller’s Secret (https://amzn.to/2LYPWXc). He joins me to talk about the power of stories and how anyone can tell a great story to make their point and connect with other people. Are there Hot Wheels cars in your house? Millions of us have played with Hot Wheels cars and some of the early ones are incredibly valuable. One sold for $125,000 a few years ago! Discover what you need to look for to see if any of the old Hot Wheels cars around your house are worth big bucks. http://mentalfloss.com/article/86634/11-collectible-facts-about-hot-wheels It used to be that staying in the same job showed security and stability. Today the employment landscape is very dynamic. It has to be because so many careers and even industries disappear while others seem to pop up out of nowhere. Understanding how the world of employment has changed can help you find the right job and the right career for you. Dawn Graham is host of "Career Talk" on SiriusXM Radio as well as a regular contributor to Forbes.com. She is also Career Director for the Executive MBA Program at The Wharton School at the University of Pennsylvania and author of the book Switchers: How Smart Professionals Change Careers -- and Seize Success (https://amzn.to/2OFWcFj). Listen to her advice on how to stay relevant in today’s job market and maneuver into the perfect job for you.  This Week’s Sponsors -Les Mills On Demand. Get 21 days FREE access to their fitness app. Go to www.Trylesmills.com/Something  -Zapier. Save up to 40 hours a week and try it for free for 14 days. Go to www.Zapier.com/SYSK --Airbnb. To learn more about being an Airbnb host visit www.Airbnb.com/host -Babbel. Get 6 months for the price of 3 when you use the promo code SYSK at www.Babbel.com  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

As a listener to Something You Should Know, I can only assume that you are someone who likes to learn about new and interesting things and bring more knowledge to work for you in your everyday life. I mean, that's kind of what Something You Should Know was all about. And so I want to invite you to listen to another podcast called TED Talks Daily. Now, you know about TED Talks, right? Many of the guests on Something You Should Know have done TED Talks. Well, you see, TED Talks Daily is a podcast that brings you a new TED Talk every weekday in less than 15 minutes. Join host Elise Hu.

She goes beyond the headlines so you can hear about the big ideas shaping our future. Learn about things like sustainable fashion, embracing your entrepreneurial spirit, the future of robotics, and so much more. Like I said, if you like this podcast, Something You Should Know, I'm pretty sure you're going to like TED Talks Daily. And you get TED Talks Daily wherever you get your podcasts. Today on Something You Should Know, is it really possible to focus and do your best work in a cluttered environment? Then the amazing power of telling stories. You can win people over if you can tell a good story.

Especially stories of struggle. We love to hear rags-to-riches stories. And not just someone who's poor and becomes rich, but someone who has had to overcome adversity. Those are powerful stories that make a connection with people. Then, if you have Hot Wheels cars somewhere in your house, you may be sitting on a gold mine, and some of the secrets that will help you land a new job or a new career. And if you're switching careers, you need to be prepared not to put on the table your most impressive skills,

but to put on the table your most relevant skills. Because sometimes the things that are most impressive in your background that have gotten you to where you are aren't relevant to where you're going. All this today on Something You Should Know. People who listen to Something You Should Know are curious about the world, looking to hear new ideas and perspectives. So I want to tell you about a podcast that is full of new ideas and perspectives, and one I've started listening to called Intelligence Squared.

It's the podcast where great minds meet. Listen in for some great talks on science, tech, politics, creativity, wellness, and a lot more. A couple of recent examples, Mustafa Suleiman, the CEO of Microsoft AI, discussing the future of technology. That's pretty cool. And writer, podcaster, and filmmaker John Ronson discussing the rise of conspiracies and culture wars. Intelligence Squared is the kind of podcast that gets you thinking a little more openly about the important conversations going on today. Being curious, you're probably just the type of person Intelligence Squared is meant for. Check out Intelligence Squared wherever you get your podcasts. Something you should know.

Fascinating intel. The world's top experts. And practical advice you can use in your life. Today, Something You Should Know with Mike Carruthers. Hi, welcome to Something You Should Know. This is the first episode being produced in our new studio. We, since the last episode, packed up everything, moved it here, and now we have a brand new studio. And we start today talking about clutter.

And as you know, when you move, there seems to be an awful lot of clutter. And I know people who swear that clutter doesn't bother them. Some people claim that working in a cluttered, disorganized environment works better for them. Well, not according to the Princeton University Neuroscience Institute. Here's what they say. They say that multiple stimuli present in the visual field at the same time compete for neural representation by mutually suppressing their evoked activity throughout visual cortex, which in English means that when your environment is cluttered, the chaos restricts your ability to focus.

Clutter makes you distracted and unable to process information as well as you do in an uncluttered, more organized and serene environment. The clutter, just because it's there, competes for your attention in the same way that a toddler might do. You might be trying to focus on something and a toddler might be saying in your ear, I want candy, candy, candy, candy, candy. And even though you might be able to focus on what you're trying to focus on, that annoyance will wear down your mental resources and so will clutter. And that is something you should know. If you want to make a point, if you want to convince

someone of something, if you want to get people to see things your way, most people agree that a good story will go a lot further in accomplishing your goal than reciting facts and statistics. There's something magical about stories. Everyone loves a good story. And if you can tell a story well, you will be a much better communicator. To talk about how important this is and how to be a better, more convincing storyteller is Carmine Gallo. Carmine is a speaker,

former journalist, and he's author of the book, The Storyteller's Secret. Hi, Carmine. So why is storytelling so important? Well, because I think storytelling is something that has been with us for 400,000 years. Anthropologists say that we began telling stories around a campfire 400,000 years ago. Well, people are still doing it today. Richard Branson, for example, gathers his team around a campfire on his home in Necker Island because he says storytelling is the best way to share ideas and to come up with new ideas. He's on to something. We've learned more in the last 10 years of how stories connect people to one another

and how they can be used for persuasion than we've known in history. So what is it we now know about the science of storytelling? We know, for example, that stories trigger certain chemicals in the brain. They trigger the release of oxytocin, for example. This has been shown in a lab. So when people actually watch a heart rendering, a tear-jerking story of, say, a boy who has cancer, and there's actually a person in the narrative, and a dad, and you learn about the family, that when they do blood draws after these

people watch this narrative, they have very high levels of oxytocin. Oxytocin is that chemical which draws us to one another. It's called the love molecule or the empathy gene. People who have a higher level of oxytocin are then shown to actually give more to charity. So the point is, and I don't want to get too scientific into this and too formulaic, but we know that storytelling works really, really well when you are trying to persuade someone or get them to trust you and to connect with you. The bottom line in all of business, as you know, is that people do

need to trust you before they do business with you. And they need to like you, you know, for all intents and purposes. We want people. We want to do business with people we like. And stories do seem to be the one tool that we know we have that will connect people to one another, especially when it comes to persuasion or trying to get your idea across. But I think a lot of times people think, but wait, there is no story. I don't have a story. There's facts and there's figures, but there's no story.

And I think people are reluctant to tell their own personal story. Exactly. So let me give you an example of the easiest way to connect with your audience through story. All of us have personal stories, especially stories of struggle, of triumph over adversity. That is the type of story that goes back centuries. It is ingrained in our DNA. We love to hear rags-to-riches stories, and not just someone who's poor and becomes rich, but someone who has had to overcome adversity and overcome struggle. Those are powerful stories that make a connection with people. So let me give you an example. In TED,

I know a lot of your listeners, I'm sure, listen to the TED Talks. Sheryl Sandberg, the Facebook COO, gave a talk that launched a movement. Many of your listeners are familiar with Lean In, the movement encouraging women in the workforce. I argue that you never would have heard of Lean In if it had not been for Sheryl Sandberg being very open and transparent with her own challenges of being a working mother. Now, here's what's interesting. Sheryl Sandberg admitted that when she was preparing for her presentations, it was all data and no personal stories. She's a data head. She had all sorts of data and facts on women in the workplace. A friend of hers pulled her aside and said, you need to be more open with people. Why don't you

talk about your own challenges? And she felt uncomfortable doing it. But once she did, she realized that that's what connected with people. But here's what I study. Why did that particular TED Talk go viral? Why did it launch a movement? It didn't launch a movement because there were good facts. It launched a movement because it was personal. Most people are very uncomfortable with telling personal stories of struggle in their own life.

And yet some extraordinary business leaders, Richard Branson, Howard Schultz, Sheryl Sandberg, I can go on, they're very open about sharing the struggles they've had. And that's why they connect with us. And we all know that from the other side of the table. We all love a good story, and yet when it's our turn to get up and tell that story, that's where we get, you know, people aren't going to be that interested in this, or I don't really want to reveal that, or people will think ill of me, or whatever the reason, we just, we shy away from it. Yeah, I think that's why people tend to connect with others who are more authentic and vulnerable and open.

And by no means am I suggesting that we start sharing all the skeletons in our closet. Not at all. But let me give you a really good example. Howard Schultz is the founder and the chairman and CEO of Starbucks, at least the Starbucks that we know today. Starbucks existed before he actually bought it. But Howard Schultz always tells the story, and Mike, you might know this story, the story of how his father was injured in the workplace, and he was growing up in the Brooklyn housing projects.

The family had no income and no health insurance. And it was a struggle. It was very, very hard for them. And it crushed his dad's spirit. It crushed the family. And he vowed he would never let that happen to anybody on his team if he were to be in that position. And today, that is why. Starbucks gives full-time health insurance to part-time workers and all of the other initiatives that they do, like sending people to college. So the story, now, first of all, I'm sure you've heard that

story. Is that true, Mike? Yeah, I've heard it before. You've heard it before. Where did you hear it from? That's all made up. You heard it from Howard Schultz because he tells that story all the time. It's very consistently told. And he tells that story for a reason, because that story now puts all of his brand's initiatives into perspective. And it also makes a very strong connection between him and his employees and him and his shareholders and partners. So that's what I mean by story. It doesn't necessarily mean exposing all the skeletons in your closet. You may not have that kind of story in your background either. But what have you overcome?

What challenges have you overcome and found success on the other side? It could even be a business case that puts what you're doing today in perspective. People are not going to remember the facts. The facts support the story, but it's the story that people are going to remember. But does the story have to be about you? Can't it be about somebody else? Absolutely. You're absolutely right. The personal stories work well when there is a very strong, compelling story that reinforces your theme. But by no means does it have to be about yourself. A case study is a story. And yet very few people even use case studies,

or they don't craft case studies in terms of narrative. They just give you an example of a particular company or service. But they too start with a story. If you want to tell a story about a case study, talk about how the world was before your product came along and how your product changed that person's world for the better. You could still use case studies, but crafted in terms of narrative. But absolutely, stories about yourself are powerful, stories about other people, and stories about your brand and brand success are also very powerful. The point is to use the components of narrative to create a compelling message around your brand or your product. It's not just delivering the features, it's delivering the why behind your product or your brand.

That's storytelling. So let's now talk about, because I think everybody knows somebody who tells stories, and they're the worst stories ever. I mean, you know, they're just long and boring and horrible. So a story isn't a story. A good story is different than a story. You're absolutely right. I'm glad you brought that up. There are very long-winded, very boring stories, absolutely. And stories should be very short, and they should reinforce the central theme of your pitch or your presentation or your idea. The point is that ideas that catch on are wrapped in narrative. So let me give you an example of how you can do this that's not boring and still using narrative. Steve Jobs did this brilliantly, which is why I still

consider Steve Jobs the world's greatest corporate storyteller. Mike, you know this. When Steve Jobs introduced a product, he didn't just talk about the features of the new product. That's not the story behind the product. He would actually wrap it in a dramatic narrative. So when he introduced the first Macintosh in 1984, he started with talking about the villain. There's a villain out there. There's a dark force entering technology today. And he said, IBM was entering the market for personal computers, and they are turning their guns, he said. IBM was entering the market for personal computers, and they are turning their guns, he said. It was very dramatic. It was like a movie. They're turning their guns on the last hope for freedom, and that's Apple. The point is, he took this

product, and instead of just introducing a product, he turned it into this dramatic narrative, where by the end of it, you wanted to be a hero. You wanted to be the solution. You wanted the world to be safe again for freedom and technology. And enter the hero. And that's the hero is the product. Now, obviously, that was extreme. That was very dramatic, because Steve Jobs was an extreme dramatic guy. But you see how you can apply this to almost any pitch or presentation. Three steps. The first step, just like any movie, actually, all movies are kind of built into these three steps. First, you describe the world as it is today. Here's your world, Mr. Client. Here's what's happening now. Step two is the villain. Here's the potential problem that is entering your world or a challenge that you're

facing. That's the villain. The third part, like all great movies, is the resolution. Hero conquers villain. Everybody lives happily ever after. The world is a better place. So even just those three steps can take you a long way. I'm speaking with Carmine Gallo. He's author of the book The Storyteller's Secret. Hi, this is Rob Benedict. And I am Richard Spate. We were both on a little show you might know called Supernatural. It had a pretty good run, 15 seasons, 327 episodes. And though we have seen, of course, every episode many times,

we figured, hey, now that we're wrapped, let's watch it all again. And we can't do that alone. So we're inviting the cast and crew that made the show along for the ride. We've got writers, producers, composers, directors, and we'll of course have some actors on as well, including some certain guys that

played some certain pretty iconic brothers. It was kind of a little bit of a left field choice in the best way possible. The note from Kripke was, he's great, we love him, but we're looking for like a really intelligent Duchovny type. With 15 seasons to explore, it's going to be the road trip of several lifetimes. So please join us and subscribe to Supernatural then and now. Of course, a lot of podcasts are conversations with guests, but Jordan does it better than most. Recently, he had a fascinating conversation with a British woman who was recruited and radicalized by ISIS and went to prison for three years.

She now works to raise awareness on this issue. It's a great conversation. and he spoke with Dr. Sarah Hill about how taking birth control not only prevents pregnancy, it can influence a woman's partner preferences, career choices, and overall behavior due to the hormonal changes it causes. Apple named The Jordan Harbinger Show one of the best podcasts a few years back, and in a nutshell, the show is aimed at making you a better, more informed, critical thinker. Check out The Jordan Harbinger Show. There's so much for you in this podcast. The Jordan Harbinger Show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. So Carmine, I think I remember reading an article you wrote a while back that said basically that the elements of a good story are likable characters and their

struggles. Yes? Yep. Every great story, screenwriters know this, and I got this because I've studied a lot of screenwriting and I've spoken to Hollywood producers. The elements of any good story, this is gold in Hollywood, is what's called the dramatic arc. So you need to have a hero or a protagonist who is in the depths of a problem, and they rise from that problem. Then there's more conflict and hurdles along the way. But at the end, they need to have succeeded, triumphed over struggle and adversity, and been transformed at the end, transformed into a better person. So if you look at almost any movie out today that's commercially successful, it sort of follow what's called that hero's journey. And so the hero's journey can

apply to your own personal stories. That's one way of keeping it short and compelling. Talk about the hero's journey. The Howard Schultz, right? Where you started, the depths of living in the project and not having the income, and then where you've been. People love that whole rags to riches type of story. But yeah, this idea of struggle, we identify it so much, and there's actually science behind it, because apparently people, humans, need to find meaning in their struggle, because we all struggle in life. So if we can connect with other individuals who are very open about being challenged and overcoming that hardship or struggle and coming out as a better person. It's a very powerful connector between two people. It is interesting how everybody, when they go to a presentation, or they're listening to a podcast or a radio host, and that person says, let me tell you a story. Everybody kind of, you know, sits back in their chair or pays little attention because everybody likes to hear a good

story. And yet we're so reluctant to tell our own story. There was a woman, a Harvard researcher, who you may have heard about because she has a bestselling book out called Amy Cuddy. Her book is called Presence. She too was a very popular TED speaker. And she got into an accident where she suffered severe brain trauma and lowered her IQ. And at that time, her IQ was her identity at that time. And she went through a real crisis of confidence. And how she built herself back up is the basis, forms the basis for her research at Harvard University. So if that's all she did is talk about the research without the backstory, that's called a backstory. All great movies have to have the backstory. You have to understand the protagonist, the hero, and where they come from. If she had not had that in her TED Talk, it never would have gone viral. And she recently

acknowledged that in her book. She said, as a Harvard researcher, Amy Cuddy said she was very uncomfortable with sharing that part of her life. And after her talk, after it was produced and it went on the internet, she said she really started to regret it because she was afraid of what her other peers would think of her doing that, because they were very focused on data and information. It was very unacademic of her to do so. And then she started getting the feedback from people who have gone through their own struggles and crisis of confidence. And the letters got overwhelming. And pretty soon that TED Talk went viral, and it became the second most watched TED Talk of all time,

and it led to a best-selling book called Presence. It never would have happened. Never would have happened. That's not just my opinion. It's hers if it had not been for her sharing those personal stories. But watch the TED Talk. The story can be told in one minute. Then you can go in all the research.

But there has to be a backstory. We don't care about a movie character. That's why the first third of the movie is all about the backstory. You don't care what happens to a person unless you get to know them. So get people to know you a little better. These are great examples when you talk about Sheryl Sandberg and some of the best TED Talks ever. But I'm thinking, what about Joe, regular guy, who's selling widgets, and there is no story.

They want to persuade, but they're just selling copiers or they're selling office equipment or whatever they're selling. And there's a million other people selling the same thing, and there is no story. There's always a story. I went to journalism school at Northwestern. And I remember one of the professors coming back one day when I went on out in the field and I returned and I said, there's no story there.

And he yelled at me. I mean, he was, this was during the days when they could do that in school. He was screaming at me, and the veins were popping out of his head, and he said, Gallo, there's always a story. And I never forgot that through my journalism career. You could always find a story. But remember, Mike, the story isn't necessarily, hey, here's something that happened to me on my way to this product demonstration.

A story can simply be using components of narrative to make your product more compelling. And that's where we get back to this three-step process. It's very simple. In the first part of your story, paint a picture of what the world is like today for your client. Maybe things are going very well. The second part is the villain. Every great story needs a villain. A villain in the product demonstration can be a problem. Once you get your client nodding in agreement, yes, absolutely, that's what we fear. That's what keeps us up at night, that villain. Then you can go to step three, which is introducing a hero. But let me tell you something. Let's say that, well, this product is like every other product out there. I have had enough

experience where I've seen results from many different companies or people who have written to me saying that my product is not that much different from everybody else out there. It's sort of seen as a commodity, but the way we communicated the narrative or the story behind that product was so different that our clients or our customers ended up going with us because they realized that we see the world differently. So sometimes it actually does pay off to take more dramatic license and create a more compelling narrative around a product, especially if you're in an area that's very commoditized, because you have to differentiate somehow. That three-step process will help you do so. It is fascinating that stories are so powerful, but as you say, we've been telling stories to each other for so long. It's how we pass on tradition and wisdom and knowledge, and it's how we like to learn. Everything about it is perfect.

I just don't think we do it in a business setting as much as we should. We don't understand the power of story in business. We think it's for books or maybe just sharing family traditions, which can be very powerful, or writing or screenwriting. But the reason why movies work on the brain, the reason why you're absolutely compelled to watch Titanic, even though you know what's going to happen at the end, is the same reason why stories work in every other facet of our life. Well, you certainly make a good case for the importance and the power of storytelling.

And since your phone's ringing, I'll let you go. Carmine Gallo has been my guest. He is a speaker, former journalist, and author of the book, The Storyteller's Secret. You'll find a link to that book in the show notes. Thank you, Carmine. Terrific. All right. Thank you, Mike. Appreciate it. Do you love Disney? Then you are going to love our hit podcast, Disney Countdown. I'm Megan, the Magical Millennial. And I'm the Dapper Danielle. On every episode of our fun and family-friendly show, we count down our top 10 lists of all things Disney. There is nothing we don't cover. We are famous for rabbit holes, Disney-themed games,

and fun facts you didn't know you needed, but you definitely need in your life. So if you're looking for a healthy dose of Disney magic, check out Disney Countdown wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, everyone. Join me, Megan Rinks. And me, Melissa Demonts, for Don't Blame Me, But Am I Wrong. Each week, we deliver four fun-filled shows. In Don't Blame Me, we tackle our listeners' dilemmas with hilariously honest advice. Then we

have But Am I Wrong, which is for the listeners that didn't take our advice. Plus, we share our hot takes on current events. Then tune in to see you next Tuesday for our Lister poll results from But Am I Wrong? And finally, wrap up your week with Fisting Friday, where we catch up and talk all things pop culture. Listen to Don't Blame Me, But Am I Wrong? on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. New episodes every Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, and Friday. It used to be that job security was really important. If you held a job for a long time, it showed people that you were a stable, successful person.

Now it seems if you stay in a job too long, people start to wonder why. How can you be successful if you're stuck in the same job? People change jobs a lot more now and change careers, and it's become expected and often necessary. However, doing so isn't always easy. That's why Dawn Graham is here. Dawn is host of the popular call-in show Career Talk on Sirius XM Radio. She's also a regular contributor to Forbes.com and career director for the executive MBA program at the Wharton School at the University of Pennsylvania. She is also author of the book Switchers, How Smart Professionals Change Careers and See Success. Hi, Dawn. Welcome. Hi, Mike, thanks for having me. Sure. So do you think people change jobs and careers today mostly because they have to or mostly because they

want to? Are there statistics for that? There's a lot of statistics out there and of course they're all based on slightly different things, but what we know is that the market is changing. Technology is taking over a lot of jobs. Industries are merging. We're getting hybrid careers. So I think even if you look at the stats about people who are satisfied in their jobs or who are unsatisfied, I think the fact is, at some point, we are all going to be switching careers in one form or fashion. Well, it just seems that the whole job landscape has changed so much. I mean, careers and jobs and industries seem to either disappear or morph into something else or merge into something else, that the whole concept of finding a job and staying

with it for a long time and retiring and getting a gold watch seems pretty antiquated. Yeah, that is definitely not the case anymore. And interestingly, when it used to be that you were a job hopper because you weren't in a job long enough, now the bias is actually against being in a job for too long. So people who have been in a career eight to 10 years who used to be viewed as stable are now looked at as less agile and not able to adapt to the market. So it's interesting how the job search trends have changed. When people are in a job that is unsatisfying, they don't like it or whatever, well, why are they there in the first place? What typically, is it just because it was a job and

they needed a job and that's why they have that job? Or how do people end up in the wrong jobs? I think a lot of people end up in their jobs based on happenstance. If you look back at your career, perhaps it was a suggestion from a family member, a friend, or perhaps you fell into a major in college and got a job and moved up the ranks. And then I think once it becomes part of your identity, it's really difficult to look at yourself in any other way. A lot of times it's pay that keeps people in a position. A lot of times it's fear that keeps people in a position because they worry, do I have the skills to do something different? What if I fail? What if this doesn't work out?

How will people view me? So I think there's a lot of things that keep people stuck in a career. One of the things that I see that keeps a lot of people stuck is they don't really understand how to go about finding a new job. People try to apply online, which is one of the worst things you can do. They get rejected and And therefore, they think, wow, maybe I don't have the qualifications to move in the direction that I thought I could, and they give up. Do people you think generally have a good sense of what direction they want to go in what job they want to get or not? I would say not. And in part, it's not their fault because there are so many different roles out there and we're not exposed to them. And honestly, when you are exposed to a role,

like we talked about earlier, it could morph, it could become a hybrid role. So for example, FinTech, that didn't exist 10 years ago. It was finance and technology. Now you have to know both. And the cannabis industry, that's another great one. Even if you are somebody who's skilled in marketing, because cannabis is something that can't be marketed across state lines, you now have to market differently. So people don't understand that these new different types of jobs exist. And so it's really difficult sometimes to know what you even are qualified to do. So I think people get stuck thinking, well, gosh, I don't even know what's out there. So I'm just going to stay where I am and wrap this blanket of security around me

thinking that this is going to be okay. But the reason I push back on that is because at some point, whether or not you want to, you may be forced to make a switch. And I think it's always better if you can be speaking with your network, reinventing yourself through growing your skills and branding yourself in a way that you're not forced. You get to be proactive about the step you want to take next in your career. Yeah, well, it does make sense that just because you are in a job you don't like or a career you don't like or that looks like it's not going to be around doesn't mean you necessarily know what you do want. You just don't like where you are. It doesn't mean you know what you would like unless you do the work to figure that out.

And I always say that it's better to run to a new career versus running from. So I think most people would say, yes, I know when I'm done with a job. I know when I'm ready to leave, but I have no idea where to go. And for those people, what I would suggest is just start talking to people. Clarity comes through action. So we have to get out of our heads. You can certainly research online, but you have to get out of our heads. We have to, you know, you can certainly research online, but you have to take the step outside of that to talk

to people who are doing different things. And I think we miss an opportunity every single day with the people who are ready in our lives by asking them, you know, I know you work at X company, or I know you're a project manager or, you know, insert title here, but what do you actually do every day at work? What do you, what is the value you bring? What, what is the product you produce? How does your day unfold? What surprises you? Because I feel like when you can talk to the people in your life about these things, you're going to start to see so many more opportunities. And the benefit that, that comes from that is that people will start to say, you know, you should talk to my friend so-and-so, or I know somebody at this company, I think you would be a great fit, or have you ever considered doing X, Y, or Z? And so when you start having

these conversations with people you already know, so you don't even have to go out and meet strangers, but people you already know, your world opens up. And we miss these opportunities every day because we don't talk about our jobs. Or if we do talk about our jobs, we talk about how our boss is a micromanager or how, you know, we have this client who rubs us the wrong way. But if we really talked about what we did, I think people would start to learn a lot more about what options are out there and get a lot more advice about who they can connect with to take those steps forward. So if you are that person who needs to get a new job or who wants to get a new job, what's the most effective way or ways to go about it and what are some of the least effective ways to avoid? Well, it's interesting because in certain ways the game has really

changed and other ways it hasn't. Networking has been the gold standard for finding a job for decades. So that has always been the case. There was a short point in time when LinkedIn and email and technology came out that getting a job online was the new way to do it and everybody was doing it. We kind of got stuck there. Everybody continues to try and do that. But what we know about the Internet is that it's saturated. online was the new way to do it and everybody was doing it. We kind of got stuck there. Everybody continues to try and do that, but we know about the internet is that it's saturated. We know that a lot of the jobs that are posted online are already spoken for by perhaps an internal candidate or maybe they're old jobs that are already filled. So people spend a lot of time on the internet

sending applications, feeling like they are very productive in their job search, when we know that applicant tracking systems, which are those systems that look for matches, screen out about 75% of resumes before they even reach human eyes. So you think, wow, I'm a perfect match, but no one's even looking at your resume, or they have an internal candidate ready to go, so you get your hopes up and then you get crushed. So we know that because of that networking, which has been a stable way to get a job for decades, is the way that people need to spend their time.

And I know that's a scary word and it's an ambiguous word, what does networking mean? But really networking is just about having a conversation, being vulnerable and saying, you know, I'm ready to look for a new opportunity. This is the value I add. These are the companies I'm looking at. Because people, all of us, all of us are going to be in a job search. We know the average is about 4.2 years in a job. So at some point, we are all going to be in a job search. And I think we have to start shifting our mindset to say, you know what, right now I need help with my job search, but next year you might or somebody else might and really create a system where we're sharing this information, helping one another find these opportunities. Because I think sometimes we make it feel harder

than it is to network when in fact, it's really just having conversations with the people right around us. When you say networking, though, I think the image people have in their head is, you know, going to those mixers and those events where everybody's handing out their cards and looking to see how people can help them. And they're often awkward and difficult for a lot of people. And it's just, it's tough and often seems like just a colossal waste of time. That is a colossal waste of time. I'll say I'm an introvert.

Those events are not really my favorite things to do. But I teach people about a second-level contact strategy. And what I mean by that is we all have so many contacts. We already have a network. We have people that we obviously work with. We have family, we have neighbors, we have people from our university, we have people maybe in our community groups, our book club, our church, whatever it is. We already know so many people, but I would be willing to bet for your listeners, I'll give a challenge, that you don't know what they do day to day. You may know where they work. You may know

their title, but I bet you don't know what they do, which means they don't know what you do, which means if you're looking for a new opportunity or even if you're not looking, but you want to increase your options, the simplest thing you can do is talk about your career by just saying, hey, you know, I know you work at X company, but I really don't know what you do day to day. Can you share more about that? And start that dialogue. And then they'll, of course, turn around and ask you. And this is where the magic happens. This is where they say, you know what, you need to meet my friend Bob who's over here because he works in there and you guys would have a lot of mutual interest.

Or you need to check out this company. Or I just saw this job that you might be interested in. And when you start to make this a habit, you'd be shocked at how the second level contact strategy works because once people understand your value, your interests, your goals, especially people who you already have a relationship with, who want to see you succeed and your cheerleaders are ready, you're going to get all these opportunities coming your way. So I think people often make the mistake of saying, well, that's my dentist. What does she know about finance or what I do? But you don't know who your dentist is neighbors with, is a sibling of, is working with in a volunteer capacity. So I think if we could just have these conversations,

people would start to realize, wow, you know, this isn't as hard as I thought. Yeah. Well, but on the other hand, yeah, I don't know who my dentist knows or who they live next door to, but chances are my dentist doesn't know somebody that could help me. So, yeah, there's nothing wrong with having the conversation, but it would seem like you'd have to have an awful lot of them in order to get to the point where some of them start to pay off. Yeah, I think that if you make it a habit, you're going to be surprised. And I think the other part of it is you kind of have to ask.

So you might have to say, you know, do you know anybody at X company? Because people want to help you and people will help you, but oftentimes they don't know what you need and they're a little embarrassed to ask you. Perhaps if you've known somebody for quite a long time, they may think, gosh, I should know what you do and I'm a little embarrassed now to ask. ask you perhaps if you've known somebody for quite a long time, they may think, gosh, I should know what you do. And I'm a little embarrassed now to ask. So I think we need to be a little bit more upfront about, you know, if you know anybody in this company, give them specifics because I think the easier you are to help, the more people who are going to help you. So of course, I've had

people email me and say, I'm looking at these 20 companies. Can you let me know if you know anyone? That is not an easy request because that requires me to spend a lot of time going through my network. But if somebody says, you know, I looked at your LinkedIn and I see you're connected to this person who's a VP, would you feel comfortable making an introduction? So a very specific ask that I'm uniquely qualified to help with. So you've invested, you've done the work, and by the time you get to the ask, it's something that's very simple for me to do. I'm more likely to do it.

So I think one of the things we need to remember is if we're in a job search or if we're looking for new opportunities, we have to be easy to help. We have to do the work for our network so that when we get to that ask, it's something that they can do very easily and most people will be happy to do it. Well, I think that's really good advice because it's always easier to help someone if they make it easy to help them. And when you ask, can you just get me a job? I mean, that's a big ask. That's hard. It's not only not easy to help, but if somebody came to me and say, I just need a job or I'll take anything or whatever comes my way, I'm going

to be less inclined to help you because you seem very whimsical to me. You seem like you don't care. So I'm not going to spend my social capital on you if you haven't done your work. So as somebody who is a networker at heart and wants to help people, you need to prove to me that you've done your homework, that you've invested in yourself, that you've understood your plan A, where you want to be your target, and how you add value. And what I usually tell people is give your network the language they need to be your ambassador. Meaning that if you come to me and you say, you know, I've spent the last two years really perfecting my skills in this area. And now I'm looking for a job in this location, in this industry, in, you know, these types of companies. And here's the value I add to that. Now I know what I can

share with my network. I see you've done your homework. You've given me the language to pass along. But if you come up to me and you say, yeah, I'm kind of interested in this. I'm still kind of figuring it out. I'm not going to be very confident in how you're going to represent me and my brand when I pass you along. Do you think there's a change, there's more flexibility in people who are looking to jump careers that, you know, before you had to kind of work your way up the ladder in an industry? Is that less so? work. Of course, everybody wants great pay and benefits and flexibility and those types of things. But I think that there is a lot more opportunity now to switch careers. Transferable skills are becoming what companies are looking for. And the fact is because companies don't even

know how their industry is going to shift over the next year. So what they do know is they need people who are agile, people who are critical thinkers, people who can problem solve and take initiative without being handed a step-by-step program. So this is what they're looking for and they're struggling to find it. And so what people need to do when they present themselves is to think about these transferable skills. And again, it goes back to doing the work for them. One of the things I've found, I spent a number of years in recruiting, and managers are, one, they hate it. They hate hiring because it takes them away from their day job. And two, they're not often trained. And we believe as job seekers that the hiring process is linear and unbiased and objective and all these things that it's just not.

People are not trained to hire. Why would they be? Because they spend 10 hours a day doing their day job and maybe two or three times a year hiring. So you come in as a candidate believing that this person is going to be linear, objective, unbiased, and all these things, and they're not. They make assumptions. They make decisions based on emotions like all humans do. And so what I coach job seekers to do is you have to do the work for them, regardless of what questions you're asked on the interview, whether you're asked, hey, if you could be an animal, what animal would you be,

which is a completely invalid question, but it doesn't matter. You have to be prepared to leave on the table the value that you bring to that job. And if you're a switcher, if you're switching careers, you need to be prepared not to put on the table your most impressive skills, but to put on the table your most relevant skills. Because often, if you're making a career change, sometimes the things that are most impressive in your background that have gotten you to where you are aren't relevant to where you're going. So it is kind of a step back looking at your identity in a whole and doing the work for the hiring manager. And what I tell clients is match first, stand out second. So pick those skills that are most relevant to the job you're going for, the one that the hiring manager is going to care most about, because the hiring process is about elimination,

not selection. At the end of the process, it does become about selection. So when you're down to the top two, three candidates, they're going to ask you, all right, what makes you stand out from these other two candidates? That's when you want to stand out. That's when you want to bring maybe some of those other impressive skills that you used to lead with but now are an added advantage. So if you match first, stand out second,

you're going to be much more likely as a switcher to get through that process to show the hiring manager that you're the person who can come in and hit the ground running and to get the offer. One of the things that's always interested me, and I talk to other people about this, and I ask them, you know, what led up to you being in the job you're in? So often, in fact, almost every time, it's random encounters with people, chance events, somebody knew somebody, and that's how they got to be in the job they're in. It's so seldom this linear, let me prepare for this job, apply for this job, and get this job.

It's so true, Mike. And I tell people that all the time. Often when you look at a resume or somebody's LinkedIn profile, or they're telling their story, of course they tell it like a linear story that unfolded just as they wanted, because they leave stuff out or they bring things that maybe were in the background to the forefront, because that's what we do. We tell our story. And it's not a bad thing. It's about thinking, what in my background is relevant to where I want to go and how do I want to build my brand. But very few people, very few people have had a linear career that built upon itself and ended up where they are. A lot of people had detours. And to your point, those detours are often things that have helped them to get where they are. And it's hard to know that in the moment, but I often tell my clients that,

you know, don't be afraid to make a mistake or take a detour because the people you meet while you're doing that, the skills you gain, the perspectives that you learn may come in handy to where you end up. So always be looking for the value in what you're doing and keep that in mind because when you, it doesn't really matter a lot of times when you have certain experiences, Always be looking for the value in what you're doing and keep that in mind. Because it doesn't really matter a lot of times when you have certain experiences. If it was five years ago, ten years ago, those perspectives can come in handy when you're looking at jobs today. So never discount experience and especially don't discount the people you meet along the way. Well, it's certainly clear that the whole employment landscape has changed over the last several years, and it's important for people to know the rules of what works today and what doesn't. Dawn Graham has been my guest. She's

host of the call-in show Career Talk on Sirius XM Radio. She's a regular contributor to Forbes.com, and she's author of the book Switchers, How Smart Professionals Change Careers and See Success. And there is a link to that book in the show notes. Thanks, Dawn. Thank you for having me, Mike. This has been great. Over 41 million people have played with Hot Wheels cars. They've been a big seller for Mattel for a long time. They were created by Elliot Handler, husband of Ruth Handler, who invented the Barbie doll. Since so many people have Hot Wheels in their homes, it might be worth taking a look to see if you have any of the ones that are worth some money. From 1968 to 1977, thin red lines were typically painted around the sidewalls of Hot

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And that is Something You Should Know. If you have any questions, comments, thoughts, or ideas, you're welcome to email me. My email address is mike at somethingyoushouldknow.net. That's the podcast today. I'm Mike Carruthers. Thanks for listening to Something You Should Know. Welcome to the small town of Chinook, where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper. In this new thriller, religion and crime collide when a gruesome murder rocks the isolated Montana community. Everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug-addicted teenager, but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced. She suspects connections to a powerful religious group.

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