Something You Should Know - The Science of Goal Setting & The Truth About Denial - SYSK Choice

Episode Date: October 11, 2025

Ever wondered if there’s really a difference between hitting Restart and Shutdown on your PC? Turns out, there is — and knowing which one to use could save you a lot of frustration the next time your computer is acting up. I’ll explain why one option is far better when it comes to fixing problems. https://computer.howstuffworks.com/restarting-shutting-down-computer.htm We all say we want to do important things — but then somehow they never get done. Why do we procrastinate on the stuff that matters most, and how does that affect our lives? Rob Dial, host of The Mindset Mentor podcast https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-mindset-mentor/id1033048640 and bestselling author of Level Up: How to Get Focused, Stop Procrastinating, and Upgrade Your Life (https://amzn.to/48QRV8j), joins me to uncover the psychology of procrastination and share powerful motivation strategies that will get you moving on the life you really want. Denial is one of those tricky human tendencies — easy to spot in others, but hard to see in ourselves. And it can quietly wreak havoc on relationships and decision-making. Jane Greer, nationally known marriage and family therapist who has appeared on Oprah, The Today Show, Dateline NBC, and more, brings fresh insights into why denial happens and how to break free from it. She’s the author of six books on relationships, including her latest, Am I Lying to Myself?: How To Overcome Denial and See the Truth (https://amzn.to/48QvCzV) Negotiation doesn’t have to be intimidating. In fact, there are a few simple tactics you can use that are so easy yet incredibly powerful. They come straight from master negotiator Herb Cohen, author of Negotiate This! By Caring, But Not That Much (https://amzn.to/3rXYnK6). In this segment, I’ll reveal his strategies so you can walk into your next negotiation with confidence. PLEASE SUPPORT OUR SPONSORS!!! INDEED: Get a $75 sponsored job credit to get your jobs more visibility at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://Indeed.com/SOMETHING⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ right now! DELL: Your new Dell PC with Intel Core Ultra helps you handle a lot when your holiday to-dos get to be…a lot. Upgrade today by visiting⁠⁠⁠ https://Dell.com/Deals⁠⁠⁠ QUINCE: Layer up this fall with pieces that feel as good as they look! Go to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://Quince.com/sysk⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns! SHOPIFY: Shopify is the commerce platform for millions of businesses around the world! To start selling today, sign up for your $1 per month trial at⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://Shopify.com/sysk⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

When you're with Amex Platinum, you get access to exclusive dining experiences and an annual travel credit. So the best tapas in town might be in a new town altogether. That's the powerful backing of Amex. Terms and conditions apply. Learn more at Amex.ca. today on something you should know there's a difference between shutting down your PC and restarting it a big difference then how to get important things done without relying on willpower the thing that

I've realized from the highest performers is that they don't have the best willpower they just create an environment where the willpower doesn't have to be tested it's like some of the healthiest people it's not They don't love ice cream. They don't keep those things inside of the house so that therefore their willpower won't be tested. Also, great tips to negotiate for people who hate to negotiate. And dealing with denial. And a lot of us are in denial about something or someone. When you get left into denial so that you don't see people for who they really are,

you don't deal with yourself for who you really are. When that starts to happen, you leave yourself wide open for getting kind of bit from behind. All this today on Something You Should Know. This episode is brought to you by Peloton. A new era of fitness is here. Introducing the new Peloton Cross Training Tread Plus, powered by Peloton IQ. Built for breakthroughs with personalized workout plans,

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Today, Something You Should Know with Mike Carruthers. Hi, welcome to Something You Should Know. Listen, if you use a PC as I do, I bet you've wondered what's the difference or is there a difference between restarting your computer versus shutting down your computer and starting it up again? And it turns out there is a difference, quite a difference, and those two functions should be used, those two functions should be used in different situations. Prior to Windows 8, restart and shutdown did basically the same thing.

But they don't anymore. Since then, when you shut your computer down, it enables what is called a fast startup, up the next time you start your PC. In order to start quicker, it doesn't really disable everything you had going before you shut it down, so it can start quicker the next time. Restart, on the other hand, shuts down everything momentarily. So if you're rebooting your computer because something is wrong, it's not working right, you should restart it, not shut it down. Remember, reboot, use restart. And that is something you should know.

I bet you have a list. It's a list of things, maybe it's in your head or written somewhere, things you want to get done, that you want to achieve, things important to you, but for whatever reason, those things aren't done. Something comes up, things get put on the back burner, there isn't enough time, a lot of things get in the way. So why is that? If these things are so important, it seems like they should get done.

But procrastination can be a powerful force. Here to help with this problem is Rob Dyle. Rob is the host of the podcast, The Mindset Mentor. He's a speaker and coach, and he's author of a new best-selling book called Level Up. Hi, Rob, welcome to something you should know. Hey, thanks for having me. So I just described what I think happens with a lot of people that aren't getting things done that they want to get done.

And I guess it starts with just taking action, because no matter what it is you want to do, you've got to start somewhere. So what is it that keeps people from just taking action and getting started? The thing that I found is there's three reasons why people don't take action. Number one is the identity that they have of themselves.

And that comes from childhood, from their parents, from traumas, from bullies, from boyfriends, girlfriends, breakups, heartbreaks, all of that. your identity is built from there. And we think that our identity is who we are. But your identity is just another way of saying your personality. And the root word for personality is persona.

And persona was just a mask that people would wear on stage back in the Greek days. And so your personality could change any point in time, which means your identity could change any point in time. Like some people say, well, I would love to lose 30 pounds, but everyone's overweight in my family. And it's just in my genes. And if that's your identity, then there's no reason to take the action that you need to to be healthier or to lose weight or to get yours to wherever you want to go.

So that's identity can be a part of it. Another big part is fears, which people really always want to dive into, is the fears that they have. And so when you look at fears, there's usually a lot of fears that people hold people back. The fear of failure, the fear of success, the fear of rejection, the fear of not being good enough, not being smart enough, not being accepted. And what I have found is that there's really two categories of fears when you look at it. There are intellectual fears and there's primal fears.

primal fears means that there's there's physical pain or death attached to it there's very few of those that come up in our life in 2023 so most of them are intellectual fears which are the ones that i just named and then so when you look at it you realize there's no pain there's no physical pain and there's no death attached to an intellectual fear the fear of success or failure for instance and so what you really do is you go okay i've got this fear of failure how do i overcome this fear of failure and the secret to this is i say you can't overcome something that doesn't exist And that's the craziest part about it, is that we're creating the boogeyman every single day in our lives and fighting the boogeyman and in reality he doesn't even actually exist.

We're creating this fear of failure and then fighting the fear of failure, but it actually doesn't even exist. It's just intellectually created in our mind and it holds us back from taking action. And so it ends up being something like procrastination and people like say, I procrastinate, that's the problem. I would say procrastination is a downstream effect of the problem. It's the symptom, but it's not the cause. And so if you can go, I'm procrastinating and then go, that's not the problem.

What's behind all of it, it's usually some sort of fear or identity that's holding people back. And when you talk about focus, I mean, that's a word that gets tossed around a lot. You've got to, you've got to be more focused. Well, focus, focus on this. What does that mean to focus? Yeah, it means to bring as much of your mental energy to one task as you're doing it. So when you look at focus, the opposite of it is distraction. In the day and age that we're in, there's a million.

distractions everywhere. There's our phone. There's the emails. There's notifications. There's other people. There's the TV. There's Netflix. There's so many distractions. And so the first thing that I think of when I think of focus to make it easier, I always want to make it easier to take action and create the life that I want. So the thing that's getting in the way of my focus, I should at least try to remove before I try to get better at focus, which is all of my distractions, all of the notifications, all of the other people and all that. And so then once you can remove your distractions and find a place and create time, like I always recommend a Pomodora technique, which is 25 minutes of work on one thing and one thing only and five minutes off. And in those 25 minutes, there's zero distractions.

You don't have email up. Your phone is in another room. And you're able to put as much of your brain power as possible into that one task. And so when you ask what is focus, it's the better you can get at focus and focus is just like a muscle. You can become better at focusing. That's a fact. We can all make our focus better. But I don't know about you. If I'm going to sit down and take action towards a task, I want to bring as much of my brain power to it as possible, and that's what I see as focus. And so when you talk with people about going after the life they want, what is step number one? What do you tell people, okay, well, if you want this, here's what you need to do.

Step one is what? Yeah, that's a good question. I think the first thing you need to do is figure out what you want. It's amazing to me how many people don't have the life that they want. And then when I say, okay, what do you want? They're like, well, I don't know. And so it's, but then I say, what do you don't want? And people like, oh, well, I don't want this.

I don't want to be broke anymore. I don't want to be struggling with my, my relationships. I don't want this. I don't want this. And I'm like, well, what do you want, though? Well, I'm not really sure what I do want. And we tend to focus on the negative of what we don't want instead of focusing on what we do on. And I remember there was, there was a few years ago.

I was at a friend's birthday party. And he had rented out this entire course. and we were riding around go cars they went like 50 miles an hour and the guy who owned the go go car place said to us he goes he's real funny he used to be an ex lima driver so he was like a real legitimate driver and real funny he's a french guy and he was joking with us and then he got really serious and he said to us he goes if you he goes somebody will crash and if one of your friends crashes do not look at the crash i'm like okay he goes no look at me in my face don't look at the crash. Look past the crash in where you want to go. And I realized it was like a really good

metaphor for so many people are looking at the crash and saying, this is what I don't want versus actually deciding what it is that you truly want in your life. And if there's, if you look through so many ancient texts, almost all of them say something along the lines of asking you shall receive. And so few people are even deciding what they want and then asking for it. And so I think the first step of actually taking action to create the life that you want is like building out the perfect picture of what would that perfect life look like, putting it on a piece of paper and then waking up every single morning saying, I'm working towards this destination. When you look at the people that do this well, what is it that they have in common that seems to add to the soup here that makes them successful when other people fall short? Yeah, I think it's the environment that they create. And what I was studying really successful people, it wasn't that they had the best willpower. It's that they created environments where their willpower would not be tested as much as somebody else. And so, for instance, the example I give with the Pomodora technique, where if you go ahead and you take your phone, you put in another room, you put your email and your notifications off, you put your noise cancelling headphones on, you tell your wife and kids, don't bother me for the next time. I've got to really get something done. That leaves you space. to only do one thing and that's to take the action that you need to. So let's say I'm creating a

presentation for work. I could create presentation for it and be distracted all day long and it could take me a day, two days to do it. Or if I can bring all of that focus and brain power to just that task, I could probably crank it up in at least half the time. And so the thing that I've realized from the highest performers is that they don't have the best willpower. They just create an environment where the willpower doesn't have to be tested. It's like some of the healthiest people, it's not that they don't love ice cream and they don't love sugar is that they don't create they don't keep those things inside of the house so that therefore their willpower will be tested and i think that's the important thing people to realize is that build an environment where your home life but also your

social life doesn't test your willpower to make you go in the direction that you don't want to go to i don't know if it's good or bad but i think one of the things that motivates people to do things that they want to do or say they want to do is they don't want to end up regretting not doing it I mean, I know for myself that I often do things because I don't want to get towards the end of my life and look back and say, geez, I wonder what would have happened if I had done that? And I think that fear of regret pushes a lot of people. You know, I had a father who was an alcoholic and he passed away when I was 15. And I remember looking at him when he was in the casket and thinking to myself,

this guy had so many dreams and he had so much potential and he didn't bring it to the world. And I bet that if he knew early on that this would be how it would end, there would be regret there because he wasn't able to create the life that he wanted to. And I'm positive of that. And I think that's what's really important is that a lot of people have goals, but they have no idea why they want to hit those goals. And so it's about going deeper and saying, like, why do I want that? If I want to make $100,000 this year, why do I want to make that?

Is it just because I want to make money? You know, you might be motivated just to make money, but eventually you're going to run out of your motivation. A client that I had years ago, then you wanted to make $100,000. a year. And I was like, why do you want to make it? I want to make it because of this. And we went deeper and deeper and deeper. We did something called the seven levels of why. I asked him why seven times in a row. And by the time we got done with the seventh one, the thing that he said to me was the reason why I want to make $100,000 this year is because

I got a divorce for my ex-wife. She has custody of my children. She lives in a really bad part of town. And I'm really concerned about the safety of my children because there have been drive-bys in their neighborhood. And I need to make this money to put a down payment on a house to get my children out of that neighborhood and hopefully have a better chance of them having more safety in their life, but also have a better education. And you realize it's the exact same goal. It's still $100,000 a year, but the why behind it is the most important part. And so it's not necessarily the goal needs to change. It's the perspective of why they want to hit that goal is what needs to change. And if the why is strong enough, the how of how to get it done will always reveal

itself. My guest is Rob Dial. He is the host of the podcast, The Mindset Mentor. And author of the book, Level Up. What a run! This champ is picking up speed! But they found a lane. Monumental into the air! Absolutely incredible! Air Transat! Fly the seven-time world's best leisure airline champions, Air Transat.

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feels like progress, not another wrong turn. Visit camh.ca to help us forge a better path for mental health care. So, Rob, you know, I think oftentimes people don't grab onto goals or try to plan out their life because if you look back at your life, or maybe not your life, but if you look back at a lot of our lives, a lot of what happened was never planned. It's chance, it's encounters with people that just happen to change the trajectory of your life and that planning your life and having a real concrete plan for your life is maybe it's a good idea, but it's going to change. It's never going to go the way you plan. And I think that's okay. It's like, we can, one of the things I've realized as I've gotten older is, is I remember when I was younger

and I was running offices and all of this. I wanted to be in control of everything. And the more that I try to control stuff, the more stress and anxiety brought into my life. And the older that I get, the more I realize I can almost control nothing. Like I can, I can, most people I always say on my podcast, because I just say it throw things out and say it the way I want to say it is, is most people can barely control their bowels after Taco Tuesday. And you think that you're going to be able to control the entire universe and every single person's perception of you and how they relate to you? Like, we want to control all of it. And really what it comes down to is you've just got to understand there's a few things in this world that you can control. One of those things is what you

think. One of those things is how you feel. And another one of those things are the actions that you take. And outside of that, we can almost control nothing. Whether other people, other people's perception of us, how they react around us. And I think what's most important that a lot of people don't talk about is being in alignment with what you feel you're supposed to be doing in your life. And I always tell people, because there's a part of the book where I talk about how to find your purpose. And I always say, it's okay if you're listening to us right now and you don't know what your purpose is, but it is not okay. Now that you're aware that you don't know what your purpose is, it is not okay to not wake up every single day and be in constant pursuit to

discover what that purpose is. And your purpose doesn't always have to be your paycheck. your purpose can just be the thing that gives you energy and makes you feel more alive. And so I think a lot of people need to start asking themselves is like, what is my purpose here? What gives me the most energy? Because when you feel like you're in alignment, you can kind of trust that what's going to happen is what's going to happen and you don't have to control everything. And I think that a lot of people want fulfillment in their life. And I think that fulfillment is a natural byproduct of taking the actions that you need to when you're in alignment with what your true purpose is. When you're in alignment with your true purpose,

you put in a good day of work and you do things that you're proud of, the natural byproduct is fulfillment. I will 100% have more energy after me and you talking than I did before me and you talking because this is one of the things that I absolutely love to do. And it's like it's almost like the universe just provides me the energy to be able to do it. And so I think for most people it's just discovering what is my purpose? What is it that makes me feel aligned? And then what would make me feel fulfilled as a byproduct of taking action and out alignment? But I bet if you were to ask random 10 people on the street, what is your purpose? What is it that gives you energy? They would look at you like, what? I know. I don't know. What's your purpose? So if you don't have a

purpose, if you don't know your purpose, how do you set out on the journey to find one? There's a part that there's a thing that's a Japanese technique that's called Ikigai. And Iki guy translated roughly over to English means reason for being. And the four questions you want to ask yourself to try to figure out what's your Ike guys, which is your reason for being is number one, what do I love? And you just write down everything that you love. It could be ice cream. It could be public speaking. It could be puppies. Put everything down. I could be racing cars. So what do I love? What am I good at? What can I be paid for? And what does the world need? and so like it for instance if i were to guess with you if you were two years ago before ever

starting this podcast say like what what is it that i love what am i good at um what is the world need what can i be paid for you would probably if you took enough time eventually come to something like what you're doing now or public speaking in some sort of way because you probably love doing this you probably love learning about people you probably love sitting down with people and interviewing them what are you good at i've listened to your interviews before you're really go to asking great questions, interviewing, doing the research. What can you be paid for? Hey, you can be paid for podcasting nowadays. So that is something you could be paid for. And what does the world need? The world needs more knowledge and more people they can listen to that are a few

steps ahead of them in the world. And so if people ask themselves those four questions, it allows you to find a space where all of them overlap. And that could be the easiest way that I found to find your reason for being. And then the last question that I add to Ikigai, which is just one that's not in there. It's like, what am I really interested in learning about? There's a lot of things that people are really interested in learning about and they don't have any skill set at it, but they're like, this thing really intrigues me. If you could find the overlap of those four or five things, usually you're going to find something that you're really passionate about doing with your life. I sense from talking to people that there's a lot of people who do have

or have an inkling of their purpose, but they don't feel like they deserve it. They don't have the confidence to go get like it'll never work out i don't really you know i've got to do something else and there's that i don't i guess it's confidence or lack of confidence that that keeps people from giving it a try yeah it's it's also like another phrase for it is the imposter syndrome and i think that it's a natural part of being a human because like for instance for me when i i almost didn't start the mindset mentor podcast because tony robins exists because i thought like i was 29 at the time back in 2015 when I started it. And I was like, who would listen to a 29 year old that's still trying to figure out life when they could listen to Tony Robbins, who's like,

in my mind, amazing? I was like, who would want to listen to me? Like, nobody would want to listen to me. And I had the idea for the podcast in January of 2015. I didn't launch it until August of 2015. So eight months later, because the imposter syndrome would not being good enough, not being smart enough. Who the hell would listen to me? I'm not good enough for this. I'm too young. Someone that's in their 40s doesn't want to listen to some 29 year old stupid kid. And so those kind of things were going through my head all the time. And so I was like, I'm not going to launch. I'm not going to launch. And then one day I was like, I feel like I have value that I want to give the world. I'm going to at least give it a shot. And I saw that the average

podcaster starts seven podcasts, has seven episodes, and then they quit. So I was like, I'll record 14. And then I'll just see how it goes. I'll see if I like it. I'll see if I like it. your toes in the water. Like, I'll see if people like it. I'll see if they respond. I'll see if I like doing it and doing podcasting. And fast forward eight years later, I'm 1,400 podcast episodes in. And the craziest part about it is that, you know, almost 300 million downloads is Tony Robbins's team reached out to me to ask him to be on my podcast. So I was like, this is a crazy thing of the, I almost didn't do it because of the fact he exists. And now, you know, his team had, you know, Aston had him on the podcast. But it really comes down to

from our current perspective, like where we are, we might not be good enough yet. And that's fine. I wasn't a good enough podcaster. I'm way better eight years later in 1400 episodes than I was then. And it's not about, it's about realizing where we are right now, but realizing that we can grow ourselves into the person who can do whatever is we want to do. The journey of being a human is about constantly evolving. Yeah, well, there is that instant gratification thing, I think. people think that they have to be perfect out of the box. And if not, then why bother? Right. We always hear it. Someone's like, oh, yeah, well, you'll never be perfect. You never be perfect. Perfect is so boring if you really think about it. And what it really comes down to, I think

the perfectionism that we have is that we're really just afraid of being judged by other people. You know, if I'm not perfect, I'll be judged by other people. If I miss up with my words, I'll be judged by other people. And I think it really comes down to understanding that you just won't be every single person's cup of tea. And that's completely okay. And you shouldn't want to be everyone's cup of tea because that means that you have to mold and make yourself a chameleon for this person, a different person, this person. And you just have to change yourself. And really what it comes down to is discovering who is your true authentic self? What is it that you want to create in this world? And can you create it authentically from a place of actually loving what you do? And if people

love it, amazing. If they don't love it, no problem. But what really matters is that I'm creating what I feel like I'm supposed to be creating in this world. You know, I always remember hearing this, I don't know who it was, saying that when they interview people towards the end of their life about the things they regret, it's almost never do people regret the things they did. It's the regret is the things that they didn't do that they wish they had. Yeah, when you bring that up, there's the book, The Five Regress of the Dying, and the number one regret is that I wish I lived a life that was true to myself and not the life that other people expected of me. And this is a lady who worked in hospice for years and was talking

with people that were at the end of their lives. And over and over and over again, the most extreme one that she heard more than anything else was that I wish I lived a life that was true to myself and not the life that other people expected of me. And it's like, man, how often do people I'm the type of person, like Tony Robbins always says, success leaves clues. Well, also happiness leaves clues, unhappiness leaves clues, regret leaves clues. I want to look to people who went through their entire life and had regrets and go, what can I learn from them? And if that's the number one regret that people have, I'm going to go, okay, well, that means that I need to find what is true to myself. And I need to live that path and understand that some people won't understand

it. People, if I decide that I want to switch my career and do this thing, someone might be 30 years old and might be like, well, I want to go and start a coaching company. And their mom might be like, well, you went to school to be an electrical engineer. That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. You might get those responses. But if it feels true to your heart, that it is what you're supposed to do. Like to start a podcast in 2015, I left a job where I was making over 200 grand a year. It made no sense logically to do that.

But something in my heart felt like, this is the thing that you were born to do. If you continue down this path and don't follow it, you're going to hate yourself when you get older. And I've heard a quote one time that said, once you discover what's your purpose and passion is, if you don't follow it, it will end up destroying you. And that was for me, one of the things that really drove me was, I feel like this is the reason why I was put on this earth. And if I don't follow it, I think that it will destroy me. Yeah, well, that's a powerful motivator. And it could work for anybody if you stop and think about it. I've been talking to Rob Dial. He is host of the podcast, The Mindset Mentor, and his book, a new best-selling

book called Level Up. And there's a link to that book in the show notes. And there's a link to his podcast as well. Thanks, Rob. Thanks for being here. Thanks, man. I appreciate it. Your business doesn't move in a straight line. Some days bring growth.

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Now that's a mountain of entertainment. Paramount Worth. I'm sure you're familiar with the phrase, that person's in denial. In fact, it's easy to see denial in other people. It's a little more difficult to see it in ourselves. But we are all in denial to some extent, some time. It can help you cope with life.

It can also be a problem because if you're in denial, you can't really see the truth. So here to help you understand what denial is, how it works, and how to deal with it so it isn't such a problem, is Jane Greer. Jane is a nationally known marriage and family therapist, and there's a good chance you've seen her on TV shows like The Today Show, Oprah, CBS News, Dateline NBC, 2020, and others.

She's the author of six books about navigating relationships. Her latest is called, Am I Lying to Myself? how to overcome denial and see the truth. Hi, Jane. Welcome to something you should know. Thank you for having me. It's a pleasure to be here. So what is denial? How do you define denial? Oh, I love that question. Denial is the inability to see reality. Denial is blocking out what is unpleasant, painful, or hurtful, or upsetting to you,

and just not seeing it. It's like going emotionally. blind. It's emotional blindness. Well, it seems like a little denial is probably a good thing, right? You don't want to see too much stark truth. Well said, you know, not only is a little denial a good thing. A little denial is a necessary thing. Denial is one of our defenses that help us cope with all the rough edges in life and manage and get through some of the events that are, you know, traumatic and shocking and kind of level us and really make it more than we can have. handle. With that being said, when it takes over center stage in your life, when you get locked

into denial so that you don't see people for who they really are, you don't deal with yourself for who you really are and what's actually going on in your life, when you start to lie to yourself, when that starts to happen, you change the landscape of your life, but you leave yourself wide open for getting kind of bit from behind once denial is no longer serving its purpose. Because you can only block out reality up to a certain point. And then it will inevitably catch up with you. So give me some examples of someone in denial that like you're referencing there. A lot of times I see it with people dealing with their significant others in a relationship, in a family with a mother, a father, a sister, a brother, they stay locked in

who they want that person to be, who they wish that person was, the mother they wish they had, the sister they wanted to have, the husband who they wish was not drinking, or wish was 50 pounds lighter, and when they're dealing with that person, they consisted of that. over and over, deny who that person really is, hence they don't expect or see how that person's going to behave. And just a hallmark to denial, one of the most important things is when you're dealing with denial, you know you're in it because you always forget that this is exactly what happened the last time, that this is what the person said or did the last time. And each every time they behave in a way that is upsetting or negative or hurtful to you. It's as if it's

the first time. It's like it never happened before and you're completely surprised and shocked especially when they will tell you I'll stop. I'll stop drinking. I won't spend so much money. I'll, you know, I'll do what you're asking me to do. Anything that you ask of them and they say that they will do it and they don't. So that's one way that you know somebody's, that you're in denial, that you're not seeing the people that you love clearly. And you continue to get disappointed and hurt

by their behavior and angry. Because you're pretending a different truth, like you're pretending he doesn't drink or you're pretending he's 50 pounds lighter? So it's not pretending, Mike, it's denying. And when you deny it, you do not see the reality. So what do you see? What do you see instead?

You see instead somebody who said, they're going to stop drinking. And when you see them drinking, you say, well, they're going to try this. They told me they go to AA. They're not drinking so much. It's only one drink a night. You start to minimize. And one of the components of denial that I talk about is you take a lot and you turn it into a little. So you take a whole lot of negative behavior and you make it one little thing.

People that are dealing with somebody in denial, I had somebody one time their boyfriend left them stranded at a wedding and didn't show up and had them fly across the country to join them to go into this wedding, left them at the hotel, didn't come and get them. And when they were reporting, it, they said, oh, it was kind of kooky behavior. No, no, no, that's not kooky behavior. That's hurtful, hostile, thoughtless, selfish behavior that that person rearranged their work, took off from work, spent a lot of money. There's a lot of bad behavior that went into that. And when you turn it into, well, that's just kooky to make it okay and tolerate. That's denial. And so the goal is to what? Because You can't make other people change, so what do you do instead?

Exactly. The goal is to confront your own denial and see people for who they are. There's what I call demanders denial, seeing that if you're dealing with a significant other, who may make demands of you to prove that you love them, to take care of them, to go out of your way and do things for them, to call them if it's a mom, to call her every day or call her three times a day. if it's a sister to come and take care of her, if she doesn't feel well, or to help her out with her kids or whatever, that no matter how much you do, it's never going to be enough, it's never going to be good enough,

and you're always going to fall short and not measure up in their eyes. So the goal of denial is to really see that, and one, start to limit how much you extend yourself, and two, to change your expectations of what you are looking for from the other person, to know that you're not going to get the acknowledgement and the appreciation, hey, honey, thank you, that really was helpful. Or what a great sister you are. You really bailed me out. Or, you know, I'd be lost without you.

You're always here for me. You're going to get, why didn't you, or you could have, or you should have, or you're never there for me, no matter how much you are, no matter what you've done. And when you realize that it doesn't matter how high you jump, the bar will always be raised, and you will always fall short, you start to see the person for who they are. The bottom line is, if you see somebody for who they really are, then you need to make some choices and changes in the way that you interact and deal with them. Because if you know that your friend is going to disappoint you, repeatedly or that your mother is going to always be angry with you no matter what you do or that if

you tell your father that you just got this great job and a great pay raise and he's going to say something to the effect of that's all and you're going to be diminished and feel badly about yourself when you when you really know that you stop wishing and hoping you use what you know to stop sharing so much to start to put boundaries in place to change and protect the way that you're involved with somebody so that you don't get so hurt. Or if it's a friend, you say, you know what, I'm going to back up in this relationship. I'm not going to give so much. I'm not going to overextend. What happens or what would or what typically happens when using your example of, you know, you tell your father you got a raise or a promotion and he says, oh, is that all?

What if you go to him and say, you know, every time I tell you one of these things, you always diminish it, you always make it sound, and I really wish you'd stop doing that. That's a waste of time. Why? Because you're dealing with somebody who demanders denial cannot see their own behavior and will only come back at you, self-righteous and justifying their behavior. And you can try. I mean, I've had many people try talking to this significant other, telling them how

hurt they are or disappointed they are in their behavior and they're met with how could you ask that of me don't you know how busy I am you don't appreciate how hard my life is typically you're dealing with narcissistic behavior in the other person and what happens with narcissists very often was when you confront them with your needs they feel burdened they don't feel understood they don't feel supported by you and then they get angry at you So they'll only lash out more. I mean, you know, it's worth a try, but honestly, Mike, I've never seen anybody successfully get through to the demander who expects somebody to just, you know, give unconditional love

and be unconditionally available. It's interesting that because it's on the surface, it seems like, well, that's the logical fix. You just tell someone stop doing that and then they stop doing it and everything's fine. But as you say, it doesn't work. Now, that's the wishing and hoping. You know, if I talk to them and I tell them what I want from them, they'll change. They don't think they have a problem. You're the one who has the problem because you're not giving enough to them or doing enough for them.

And you can't ask, you can tell people what upsets you about their behavior, but you can't ask them to stop. You can say, you know, when you do this, it's very hurtful to me. it would be great if you didn't, but if you continue to do it, here's what I'm going to do. You know, if you're talking to a person who doesn't hang up the phone on when you say, I've got to go, you can't say to them, hey, please, you know, when we're talking, you go on and on, and I have, when I say I have to go, I got to go. Because you please just hang up the phone, not going to happen. But what you can say is, look, a lot of times when we're ending a conversation, you keep talking.

So I need you to know that when I say I'm hanging up, I'm going to hang up. And then you go ahead and you hang up. That's the boundary telling them what you're going to do in the limit. And then you need to enforce it. And if they get angry, you say, well, look, I told you this is what I needed to do. You start to take care of yourself. So you don't tell other people what they need to do. You tell them what you're going to do in the face of their continuing

to behave in a way that is hurtful or painful or upsetting to you. But when, like your example of the father who says about the promotion, oh, that's all, that's all you got, what's the point of that? Why say that? What are they, what's the payoff for them to, I mean, they have to know that when you say that, that's not the nicest thing in the world to say. So why do they do it? Well, that is a fabulous question. I think there are lots of reasons why people are angry and hostile and hurtful to the people that they love. Why do people say critical, nasty, mean things? Why are they mean? Why wouldn't they just be positive and supportive and loving?

You know, a lot of people are disgruntled. A lot of people have resentment. A lot of people are empty. A lot of people become envious. Instead of supporting their children, they feel rivalrous or get competitive or jealous. And so they cut them down. They don't want them to surpass. They don't want them to do so well.

They want them to feel more dependent and vulnerable and needy and helpless and stay close to home. I mean, there's a po-pery of reasons why people are critical, negative, blaming, and just mean. So what do you do, though, when you've got some... someone in your life and they're a family member because as you say you know friends you can back away from but you know your mom's your mom your dad's your dad and and so so when you back away if you try to you know not share so much pull back a little bit then they're going to criticize you for that so it's like you can never win that's the whole point you can never win it doesn't matter i've had people i had at one gal she used to call her mother twice a day and then she cut up down

to once a day. And no matter how many times she called her mother, it was never enough. And when she started to call in the morning, the mother would say, why are you calling me in the morning? You know I'm busy then. So she'd call him the evening. Why are you calling me at night? You know I'm tired then. It didn't matter when she called. It was never the right time and it was never enough. It's impossible to please this person. And that's the reality. So when you start to accept that you do put limits in place for yourself and you accept that they're going to be angry with you no matter what you can call your mother two times a day you can call her in the morning in the evening and then she'll get angry and upset that you're not calling her at lunch it doesn't matter

how much you do they will be angry with you and when you accept that you learn to tolerate and say you know what i'm not responsible for their emotions and if she's going to be angry with me, she'll have to deal with it. But you start to take care of yourself. It does seem, though, that like, I don't know, maybe it's just my personality, but, like, how do you not call them on it? Look, I call you every day. Now I don't call twice a day, but I'm still calling. Lighten up, get over it. Or, hey, there's a dial on your phone. If you need to call me, call me. They'll give you a whole line of malarkey. You know on this You know on that.

How could you expect this? They'll just get angry with you. Give it a world. I say to people, give it a world. If you want to try and bang your head against the wall, go ahead. But you're just going to get back resistance, resentment, anger that you're asking of them to do this. They are not going to see themselves. They're in their own denial.

They're going to tell you, I'm 78 years old. They're going to say to you, I live alone. they're going to say to you, you know I have to deal with your sister all the time. They're going to give you their laundry list of problems and what they're dealing with and how dare you ask them anything. I don't know. It just seems like, as you say, people are going to be mad no matter what you do. So why not call them on it?

And yeah, they might be mad, but they were going to be mad anyway. So I remember when my father was alive that when we talked, it was always because I called him. He almost never called me. And that bothered me. And the same thing held true for my siblings, that he did not typically call them. And so I took him out to dinner and I called him on it. And I said, why is it that you don't call me ever? And he said, in so many words, I have a belief that children should.

call their father. And it wasn't up to him to call us. And so I said, well, be fine with me if you wanted to call. And you know, things got better. They didn't get a whole lot better. But he did start to call more often. And I'm glad we had that conversation. Well, I think that's wonderful. But it sounds like that was one area where there was a lopsidedness to the relationship. And it turns out it was based on a value system and a belief on his part. not a personality element that was across the board in the nature of how he behaved with everything. In other words, if somebody is, oh, you always come to my house, for example, you know, you drive and see me, I'm not driving to you. There may be a value system or a belief that, you know, I expect you to come to me.

And if you talk about it and you say, look, in this one instance, could we ever balance it a little more? That was great, that he was receptive and was more responsive. When it's not a belief system, when it's more innate in the person's personality and the way they behave, you're less likely to be successful. If your father was always making demands of you and expecting, you know, well, I'm the father and you know, you should call me and you should visit me and you should do this for me and you should do this for me and you should do that for me. And if it was always a one-way street, the likelihood that he would have heard you around that and then change his behavior would have been smaller. Yeah, that's right. You made an important distinction there because it wasn't like he was demanding, I call. It was just if I wanted to talk to him, I needed to call him. He wasn't going to be checking in on me. But you're really

talking about people who make demands and are always disappointed. Exactly. That's what I work with people on is developing their emotional muscles, helping them see through their wishing and hoping the person was different and accepting the person for who they really are so that they can start to make limits and put limits in place in terms of how they are going to behave, what they're going to tolerate, how they start to see over and over repeatedly the same behavior so that they're not surprised. Oh my, I can't believe it. It's like, you know, ignore that man behind the curtain. Denial is the Houdini of the mind and the heart. It makes everything disappear. And you can't ignore that man behind the curtain. He's there and he's working the controls. And if you don't

pull the curtain back, you're going to be out of control in your life. And certainly when it comes to infidelity, a lot of times people are locked in denial because they believe what they're told. And this is true in other aspects of denial, but you know, you may broach the behavior in question and somebody will give you some explanation or excuse. And you go, yeah, that makes I can live with that. And that's denial. You just believe what you're told and go along with their denial of what they're doing. It seems so much easier to see it in other situation, in other person's relationships, like what's going on, that he told you what and you believe that? What? Exactly. You said it, Mike. Exactly right. We can.

all see the wool being pulled over the eyes of the people we love and we are confounded that how can they not see it but that's the that's the power of denial i am oz the great and mighty you know and and so i work with people to help them build their emotional muscles to use what they know to um see people for who they are so that they can recognize you know what it doesn't matter if i do this or I don't do this because if I do it, they're going to be angry that it wasn't good enough or didn't do it when they wanted me to. And if I don't do it, they're going to be angry. So I might as well take care of myself. Yeah, right. I might as well take care of myself. That's some good advice. I've been speaking with Jane Greer. She is a nationally known

marriage and family therapist. And the name of her book is, Am I lying to myself? How to overcome denial and see the truth. There's a link to that book in the show notes. Thanks for coming on, Jane. Terrific. Thank you so much for having me. Herb Cohen is one of the all-time legendary great sales trainers and negotiators. And he has some advice. In fact, he was a guest on this podcast way back in the beginning when we first started. And he has some advice that will help you negotiate anything better. First of all, dumb is better. Make the other person

feel superior and smarter than you. When you say things like you lost me, I don't really understand. It throws the other side off balance and makes them slow down, which will work in your favor. Care, but don't

care too much. The more disinterested you seem, the better the deal will likely get. Walk away. If you don't like the deal, walk away and see if the deal doesn't get better instantly. You can always accept the deal later if you want to. And that is something you should know. I'd love it if you would leave a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen.

Usually there's a place where you can leave a rating and review and we read them all. We appreciate them. They're very helpful. And it only takes a minute. I'm Mike Carruthers. Thanks for listening today to Something You Should Know. You know, a lot of the guests who appear on something you should know have their own TED Talk. And did you know that TED has a podcast that drops a new TED Talk every day?

If you love hearing fascinating stories, insights about human behavior, and mind-blowing concepts that weren't even on your radar before, I recommend you check out TED Talks daily. You'll hear hot takes and deep dives from the world's leading thinkers and learn answers to questions like how do I stop caring about what other people think or is my partner the one? Do aliens actually exist?

Don't miss out on your daily dose of inspiration. Listen to TED Talks Daily wherever you get your podcasts. Hi there, Fred Greenhalj here, director of audio dramas like DC high-volume Batman and Star Trek Khan. However, my one true love remains all things spooky and I'm excited to say there's a new season of my horror podcast undertoe. This season is called familiar haunts, standalone horror tales that reveal how the past is never truly gone, and humanity may be the most ruthless monster of them all. Here's a sample from

the first episode about a man who returns to the house he grew up in after receiving a creepy voicemail from his mother. Uh, let's hear it, shall we? Mike, help me. I'm not alone in here. I'm not alone. She's, she's walking. She's fucking toward me. Hear the rest by listening to Familiar Haunts available on Undertow. Subscribe to Undertoe wherever get your podcasts, such as the app you're listening to me right now. In addition to the weekly releases of Familiar Haunts, we have 11 previous seasons with everything from Werewolf Tales to underwater monsters and creepy, reincarnated twins. So get your spooky fix by subscribing to Undertoe.