Something You Should Know - The Science of Making Meetings Not Suck & How to Be Much Happier (and Why You Should)

Episode Date: January 24, 2019

As I write and post this, much of the U.S. and other parts of the world have been hit by extreme cold in the last several days. So I begin today’s episode with a look at the science of how to stay warm when you are out in the cold. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-6620391/How-brace-cold-Science-backed-ways-stay-warm.html “Boy I wish we had more meetings and I wish they lasted longer,” said no one ever in the history of mankind. At best, meetings are a necessary evil in business, organizations and even families. But meetings don’t have to be long, boring and pointless. Steven Rogelberg, Professor of Psychology, Management, and Organizational Science at the University of North Carolina Charlotte is the author of the book The Surprising Science of Meetings https://amzn.to/2WdwBVi and he joins me to reveal how you can make meetings more interesting, meaningful and relevant while making them shorter and maybe even less frequent. And if you like what he has to say, you can visit him at his website: http://stevenrogelberg.com Did you know your cellphone can give you a bad complexion? It turns out a lot of people are having trouble with the skin on their face and it is all because of their cellphone. Listen as I explain why it happens and how to fix it. http://www.cosmopolitan.com/style-beauty/beauty/how-to/a11048/is-your-smartphonecausing-acne/ You don’t have to look far to find podcasts, seminars, books and articles full of people telling you what they think will make you truly happy. However, in this episode we look at the SCIENCE of happiness with Catherine Sanderson. She is the Manwell Family Professor of Life Sciences at Amherst College and author of the book The Positive Shift. https://amzn.to/2S5cYQ2. Listen as Catherine not only explains how to make yourself happier, she also reveals the incredible dividends you receive when you do. This Week's Sponsors -Joybird. To receive an exclusive offer for 25% off your first order go to www.joybird.com/something and use promo code: something -Select Quote. Get your free quote for life insurance today at www.SelectQuote.com/something -ADT. Go to www.ADT.com/smart to learn how ADT can design and install a smart home system for you. -Geico. Go to www.Geico.com to see how Geico can save you money on your car insurance Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Today on Something You Should Know, what's the best way to stay warm when you go out in the cold? I'll explain. Then, there are a lot of things wrong with the way organizations conduct meetings. For example... If meeting size increases, so does dysfunction. So what we want to do is try to make these meetings as lean as possible. You know, I often feel three to eight people is kind of a nice sweet spot. Also, did you know your cell phone can cause your face to break out?

And if you don't consider yourself to be a happy person, we're about to fix that and explain why. People who are happier tend to have better relationships because people like to be around people who are happier. They also are very, very consistently healthier. They recover faster from surgery, they live longer, and they experience better success in their careers. All this today on Something You Should Know.

As a listener to Something You Should Know, I can only assume that you are someone who likes to learn about new and interesting things and bring more knowledge to work for you in your everyday life. I mean, that's kind of what Something You Should Know was all about. And so I want to invite you to listen to another podcast called TED Talks Daily. Now, you know about TED Talks, right? Many of the guests on Something You Should Know have done TED Talks Daily. Now, you know about TED Talks, right? Many of the guests on Something You Should Know have done TED Talks.

Well, you see, TED Talks Daily is a podcast that brings you a new TED Talk every weekday in less than 15 minutes. Join host Elise Hu. She goes beyond the headlines so you can hear about the big ideas shaping our future. Learn about things like sustainable fashion, embracing your entrepreneurial spirit,

the future of robotics, and so much more. Like I said, if you like this podcast, Something You Should Know, I'm pretty sure you're going to like TED Talks Daily. And you get TED Talks Daily wherever you get your podcasts. Something You should know. Fascinating intel. The world's top experts.

And practical advice you can use in your life. Today, Something You Should Know with Mike Carruthers. Hi, welcome. It has been very cold, not only in the United States, but around the world in these last few days and weeks. And it got me to thinking, what is the best way to stay warm? You might think people would know, but there's some science to it that's worth explaining. When you go outside where it's really cold or into any cold environment, your body redistributes blood to the torso,

protecting and maintaining the warmth of the vital organs in there. At the same time, your body restricts blood flow elsewhere, which can leave your legs, arms, fingers, and feet feeling colder. The best thing to do is to keep your torso warm. If your torso is warm with a nice heavy coat, then your body knows it's free to let blood flow to your limbs and can help keep your arms, legs, hands, and feet warm. Moving around is a good idea, just not too much. Being physically active causes your muscles to contract, breaking down more nutrients, which generates additional heat. The additional heat production can help maintain body temperature and help you feel warmer. But if you move around so much that you start to sweat, then your body tries to cool itself as the sweat evaporates.

This is a bad outcome because the evaporation of sweat will lead to greater heat loss. Eating when you're cold is a good idea because eating increases the body's production of heat. The process of breaking down food is going to slightly increase body temperature. This is why sometimes campers will have a snack before bed in an effort to stay warmer through the night. And perhaps you've heard that you lose most of your body heat through the top of your head. That turns out to be untrue. And that is something you should know. I don't know too many people who love to go to meetings. Generally, it seems people think that there are too many meetings, that meetings run too long, and they don't accomplish much. But when you

think about it, you can't not have meetings. Meetings are where information gets disseminated and discussed and where ideas come from. Sometimes meetings can be a good thing. And since we're going to have meetings anyway, why not do them right? And it turns out there is actual science here, the science of meetings that may surprise you. In fact, there's a new best-selling book out right now called The here, the science of meetings, that may surprise you.

In fact, there's a new best-selling book out right now called The Surprising Science of Meetings, written by Steven Rogelberg. Steven is a professor of psychology, management, and organizational science at the University of North Carolina, Charlotte. And his book, The Surprising Science of Meetings, has been identified by the Washington Post as the number one leadership book for 2019, and Business Insider named it one of the top 14 business books to watch for 2019. And so if you lead meetings or attend meetings, which is pretty much everyone, you really need to hear this. Welcome, Stephen. Well, thank you very much. It's great to be here. So it would certainly seem that most people would agree that the world would be a better place if there were fewer meetings. Some people would argue that we should get rid of meetings because they're a big waste

of time. A world without meetings is truly much more problematic than a world with meetings. Meetings are an opportunity for employee voice to be involved in consensus decision-making. In many regards, organizational democracy comes to life in meetings. So the elimination of meetings is a false goal, but the elimination of bad meetings, that's something we all need to work towards. Yeah, so meetings may be necessary, but I think a lot of people's perception and experience is that they're a huge waste of time in the sense that it takes an hour for what should have taken five minutes. Yeah, I mean,

you're absolutely right. It very much comes down to the meeting leader. Meeting leaders are engaged in all these habitual practices that are just, they're just habits, and they're not really thinking about the meeting experience. The best place to see this is just how frequently there are recycled agendas. It's the same stale items week after week. Yeah, because they can't think of anything to meet about, or maybe, and maybe more likely, there is nothing to meet about. And, you know, the Monday morning meeting, I've always thought, well, what if there's nothing to meet about? Why do we have a meeting just to have a meeting when there's nothing really important to discuss? We're just wasting everybody's time because every Monday we have a

meeting. Yeah, I mean, that's exactly right. There's not much thought given into meetings. And, but let me share a statistic to help contextualize this. Recent estimates suggest that only around 20% of all managers receive any training in meetings. Now, let me think about this for a moment. Around 20%. That means 80% receive no training whatsoever, and there are approximately 55 million meetings a day in the U.S. So you have leaders who are really not prepared.

But now I'm going to add one other piece of data to help contextualize this. We also find in our research that one person leaves a meeting feeling good about it. Can you guess who that person is? The meeting leader. Exactly. So meeting leaders tend to have inflated perceptions of the media experience. All right, so now we've got the double whammy, right? We have this leader blind spot. They think it's going well, and they've received no training. And when you put those two things together,

you're basically having meetings that are not being done well, not being done with thought, and lots of just these terrible meeting problems that waste people's time. I would bet that when people heard you say that very few people have training in how to conduct a meeting, people thought, training? Well, you just, you get people in a room, and you tell them what you're going to tell them, and you ask a few questions, and then you, at the end, say, does anyone have any other questions? And the meeting's over. What training? That's a great question. First, I'm giving an example, and then I'll share more. So there's training programs out there that teach leaders

tactics, like, hey, have an agenda. But our research shows that having an agenda in and of itself actually does nothing for meeting effectiveness. It all comes down to what is on that agenda and how that agenda is facilitated. So really the best training for meeting leaders is less about, hey, here are particular tactics, but it's more about helping leaders realize, A, that they're a steward of others' time, right? When you have that mindset that I am a steward of others' time, well, that's actually going to drive a host of decisions, such as exactly what should we talk about? Did I solicit input from others? Who should be at the meeting and who really can just stay in the loop.

But most importantly, and this goes to my B, with that mindset, you embrace your role as a facilitator. And that's really what a meeting leader should be. If the meeting leader is just going to dominate and share his or her opinions, well, that could just be an email. But what makes or what has the potential to make a meeting a really special and dynamic experience is when that leader is willing to facilitate and bring out the best in everyone and encourage meaningful discourse and even encourage conflict, right? Because we know through conflict around ideas, not conflict related to people,

but around ideas, great things can happen. That's where innovation, really tremendous decision-making, a host of real positive outcomes can come through proper facilitation. Well, I've always thought that the idea of the staff meeting where everybody's in the room, I have been to so many meetings. I had no business there. There was nothing in this meeting that had anything to do with what I do. And when you bring everybody in an organization together, how valuable is that meeting going to be to most of the people in the room? Because it's probably really kind of a sales meeting in disguise

or some other kind of meeting, but everybody's in the room. Yeah, absolutely. As meeting size increases, so does dysfunction. Besides the obvious communication issues, but you also have something called social loafing, which is really the idea that people hide in the crowd and don't fully engage. So what we want to do is try to make these meetings as lean as possible. And I think we can change our thinking about them.

So if we kind of think of our attendees as kind of being of two types, we have the people that have to be there, and then there's people who we just want to keep in the loop or people who maybe should just touch part of the meeting. And the secondary members, well, they could be told about the meeting. They could be asked, hey, if you have any input, I'll bring it with you. They could be given the minutes, and they could be offered the opportunity to come to any future meetings. But if you do these actions with these secondary folks, they're going to choose not to attend.

But they're still not going to feel excluded, which is kind of that balance, because we do find in our research that when people aren't invited to meetings, they get a little bit worried. So this kind of alternative is that best of both worlds. You have the people who truly need to be there, and then you have others who stay in the loop. And I want to add one more piece to that, is we could even use timed agendas. Not always, but occasionally, we could indicate that for this agenda item, it's going to happen at this particular time.

And for that particular agenda item, well, person X, Y, and Z also need to be included. But then they can leave. So they're not held captive for the entire meeting. They pop in and they leave. And that's another way of keeping meeting size very manageable. So in the science, is there like a magic number? Is there a size at which a meeting becomes too big? Or is it just the more people, the worse it gets?

So definitely the more, the worse. You know, I often feel that, you know, meeting three to eight people is kind of a nice sweet spot. Once you start, you know, passing eight people or so, it really requires that leader to have some pretty fantastic facilitation skills. Steven Rogelberg is my guest. He is a professor at the University of North Carolina, Charlotte. And the name of his book is The Surprising Science of Meetings. Since I host a podcast, it's pretty common for me to be asked to recommend a podcast. And I tell people, if you like something you should know, you're going to like The Jordan Harbinger Show.

Every episode is a conversation with a fascinating guest. Of course, a lot of podcasts are conversations with guests, but Jordan does it better than most. Recently, he had a fascinating conversation with a British woman who was recruited and radicalized by ISIS and went to prison for three years. She now works to raise awareness on this issue. It's a great conversation. And he spoke with Dr. Sarah Hill about how taking birth control not only prevents pregnancy, it can influence a woman's partner preferences,

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The Jordan Harbinger Show. There's so much for you in this podcast. The Jordan Harbinger Search for the Silver Lightning, a fantasy adventure series about a spirited young girl named Isla who time travels to the mythical land of Camelot. During her journey, Isla meets new friends, including King Arthur and his Knights of the Round Table, and learns valuable life lessons with every quest, sword fight, and dragon ride. Positive and uplifting stories remind us all about the importance of kindness, friendship, honesty, and positivity. Join me and us all about the importance of kindness friendship honesty and positivity join me and an all-star cast of actors including liam neeson emily blunt kristin bell chris hemsworth among many others in welcoming the search for the silver lining podcast the go kid go network by listening today look for the search for the silver lining on spotify apple or wherever you get your podcasts, Stephen, is there any analysis of the anatomy of the average meeting that, you know,

if you have something to say, you're better off saying it in the first five minutes than the last five minutes? Or is there tactical stuff like that that does seem to make a difference? Interesting question. So first, I should say, you know, I totally believe there are a host of tactics that leaders can do, but we want the tactics to be purposeful and kind of based on the steward mindset. Now, putting that aside, there is definitively research that looks at the structure of agendas. And the fact is that the items at the beginning of an agenda get more time and attention than those at the end. This is actually quite problematic

because the typical agenda starts with a host of news and information and updates, and really the most meaty items get pushed to the end. So if you run out of time, they get cut. And this is a tremendous mistake. So the most effective leaders and the most effective teams, maybe after a few minutes of greeting and warm-up, they dive into really the item that requires the most conversation, that has the most potential for constructive conflict, and they go hard at it. And then if they run out of time, well, the thing that's going to be cut are really those less important topics. I've been in plenty of meetings, and I'm sure other people have as well, where there's that

one guy who's constantly asking questions over and over again that pertain pretty much only to him. It doesn't really help the group. He dominates the meeting. Nobody else gets to say anything. And you have a really great technique to politely make that guy less dominant. Let's say you have a topic, you need people's ideas, the generation of ideas. The typical process is everyone just starts talking and you record in real time. But that process is actually not optimal. The best process is actually to have people brainstorm in writing and then take those ideas and see what emerges. When people brainstorm in silence, you get twice as many ideas, and the ideas that are generated are of higher quality and more creative.

The beauty of a process like that is that that dominating individual is really silenced, but they're silenced through the process, And so everything will emerge. So there are ways of designing meetings so that one person doesn't dominate. I'll share another quick idea. Really good meeting leaders sometimes ask for input or critique about an idea before the meeting occurs, either via a Google Doc or a SurveyMonkey. And then they can bring that input into the meeting occurs, either via a Google Doc or a SurveyMonkey, and then they can bring that input into the meeting, and then there can be a discussion. And once again, you're not going to have the filtering. You're going to have a real wealth of information that's going to be on the table.

So we can design the power of that annoying person away. So you've said several times that, you know, it's really the facilitating skills of the leader that really determine how well this meeting is going to go. So what does it mean to facilitate a meeting well? What do you do that maybe people don't do that makes the meeting more impactful, meaningful, and relevant? So first and foremost, a good facilitator is a good listener. So the leader is truly listening to what people are saying. They're encouraging others to communicate.

They're creating safety so that people can bring their whole selves to the meetings so they're not ridiculed or made fun of. They're reinforced when they make good contributions. They're helping people make connections. Ah, I heard what Sasha said. Gordon, you know, I know you're working on something similar. What are your reactions? So they're just dialed into the flow of communication, right?

So you think about you. You're the fantastic interviewer. Well, you have to listen very carefully, and you're really facilitating this experience so that your listeners can get something from this. And a lot of the skills that you're using, even for this podcast, is what a good meeting leader needs to do. One of the big complaints about meetings, in fact, I suspect this is one of the biggest complaint about meetings, is there's too many of them. Is there too many of them? And is there

a sweet spot for the number of meetings people should be attending? I wouldn't say there's an absolute number that's right or wrong. It's going to depend on the nature of the job and the organization. So what I'd like to see is instead of saying, here's the magic number of meetings, I want to make sure that people have maker's time. And I also want to make sure that not every meeting defaults to one hour. I want people to be more thoughtful in how much time they need to actually have the meeting. The only reason why one hour is what a meeting typically is, is, well, that's just the default setting on Outlook and Google Calendar. And that's not a good reason.

So I have a chapter in my book that says, hey, meet for 48 minutes. Well, I actually don't mean every meeting should be 48 minutes. But what I mean is, given a set of goals, well, think carefully about how long that meeting needs to be. And it could very well be the case that it should be 25 minutes. In fact, when you're assigning how much time a meeting should be, what I suggest is determine the time and then back it off five to 10 minutes. Actually create a little pressure because we know, based on psychological research, that human performance is optimal under moderate levels of pressure. There tends to be more focus. So I think there's a lot of things

that we can do to kind of give people time back. And if circling back to something we talked about earlier, that if we are more careful with meeting size, well, meeting size, thinking about time, that's how we're going to find the sweet spot for people. You mentioned a few minutes ago that you get much better results when people, you ask people to write down their ideas rather than, you know, go around the table and people talk about them. What other kinds of things like that, because I've never been in a meeting where anyone's ever asked me to do that. What other kinds of things like that could really spark up a meeting? Well, there's a host of really nifty software applications that people can do on their phones or their laptops

where they can vote electronically in the middle of the meeting. So if a leader says, hey, okay, we're choosing between these three options, well, people can actually submit their votes. So I mean, basically, it's an app. And the leader in advance of the meeting can put in their, let's say, three choices that the team, the meeting is deliberating on, and then a poll will show up on the screen, and people can vote in real time and in silence using their phones. Do you really know if you have consensus? Well, you will now because you'll see people's votes, and people's votes won't be influenced by all the other people in the meeting. These tools can also be used for people to generate ideas on their phones or the laptops,

and they get shot right up into the screen. So things can happen that way. What are the names of those apps? Klaxoon, K-L-A-X-O-O-N, has a variety of different apps that allow different tools that meetings can use. But there's others as well. And there's just plenty of options. And many of them are free for initial use. And by the way, a lot of these tools are actually used in the classroom. So when you think about kind of contemporary learning experiences and how to get people truly involved in a class when there's 100 people in it, well, these tools can also help everyone kind of feel connected to the class.

And so what should the goal be? Obviously, every meeting has its own goal, theoretically. But why are we holding this meeting? What should the outcome be? How should people walk away from the meeting if, in fact, it was a successful meeting? So it definitely varies depending on what the needs are. But I think the outcomes that you want is that you want a meeting where people felt that it was truly needed and that they needed to be there. That they leave this meeting feeling like their time was honored, that it wasn't needed and that they needed to be there, that they leave this meeting feeling like their time was honored, that it wasn't a waste of time, and that they had something to justify their allocation of effort. From a meeting leader perspective, I'm a big fan of structuring agendas as key questions

that need to be answered. And by structuring your agenda as key questions that need to be answered, well, you'll leave that meeting knowing whether indeed you answered those questions. And I think that's another litmus test. So you put this together. If at the end of the meeting you felt that these key questions were answered and people leave feeling like their time was honored, then that was a successful meeting.

And what's, I think, exciting is that we have research that shows that when leaders call relevant meetings and they create freedom of speech in meetings and they manage time carefully in meetings, that employee engagement is higher. So I don't mean employee engagement related to a particular meeting. I'm talking about employee engagement in general. So we always think about meetings as places that were drained of energy. Meetings done right can actually give people energy. There's something very special about having an experience

with your colleagues that truly matters and results in the consensus feeling good about what emerged that can provide people with extra resources as they continue on with their work days. Is there any sense that meetings in the morning are better than meetings later, or it doesn't matter? I've actually just started a research study around that. So we're calling it meeting scheduling cadences. And I've heard people speculate about the time of day when meetings can occur, but there really isn't good research on the topic yet. Okay, honest and truly, the last question.

Okay. Does the research support the idea that regularly scheduled meetings, whether you really have much to talk about or not, but that we have the Monday morning sales meeting, is or is not a good idea? It's not a good idea. We don't want to just meet for the sake of meeting. People are way too busy for that. If people had nothing to do, sure, let's just meet. But the fact is, people's plates runneth over, and the kindest thing you can do is that when a meeting is not needed, give people back their time so that they can engage in the other work that they have to do. Well, I hope some of the people listening are the people who lead, facilitate, and even

attend meetings, because if they take what you've said and apply it to their meetings, perhaps we can make a dent in the, whatever the number was you said, 86 billion meetings that go on every day. We can impact a few of them. My guest has been Steven Rogelberg. He is a professor of psychology, management, and organizational science at the University of North Carolina, Charlotte. And he's author of the book, The Surprising Science of Meetings.

And you will find a link to his book at Amazon in the show notes. Thank you, Steven. Thank you, Mike. It's been an absolute pleasure chatting with you. People who listen to Something You Should Know are curious about the world, looking to hear new ideas and perspectives.

So, I want to tell you about a podcast that is full of new ideas and perspectives, and one I've started listening to called Intelligence Squared. It's the podcast where great minds meet. Listen in for some great talks on science, tech, Thank you. the future of technology. That's pretty cool. And writer, podcaster, and filmmaker John Ronson discussing the rise of conspiracies and culture wars. Intelligence Squared is the kind of podcast that gets you thinking a little more openly about the important conversations going on today.

Being curious, you're probably just the type of person Intelligence Squared is meant for. Check out Intelligence Squared wherever you get your podcasts. with hilariously honest advice. Then we have But Am I Wrong, which is for the listeners that didn't take our advice. Plus, we share our hot takes on current events. Then tune in to see you next Tuesday for our listener poll results from But Am I Wrong. And finally, wrap up your week with Fisting Friday, where we catch up and talk all things pop culture.

Listen to Don't Blame Me, But Am I Wrong on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. New episodes every Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, and Friday. Some of the luckiest people in the world, in my view, are those people who are naturally happy and carefree most of the time. Happiness is their default position. Something bad has to happen to make them unhappy. For a lot of the rest of us, happiness takes work. The stresses and anxieties and problems of everyday life tend to just suck the happiness away. But maybe there's a way to change or at least improve that so that you can look at life through a happier lens most of the time, to have a higher happiness set point.

According to Catherine Sanderson, there's some real science here that can help people become happier. And there is also some pretty clear science that says that telling people to get happy, buck up, get over it, and put on a happy face is amazingly ineffective in making someone happier. Katherine Sanderson is a researcher, and she is the Manuel Family Professor of Life Sciences at Amherst College, and she's author of a book called The Positive Shift. Hi, Katherine.

Welcome. Thanks for the invitation. So I think there's this perception that, for the most part, how happy you are overall is really a matter of wiring, that you came into the world as a happy person generally, and that the rest of us are, well, some of us like to think we're realistic, that we don't see the world through rose-colored glasses. We see the world as it reallycolored glasses. We see the world

as it really is. And that's just because people are different. The reality is there are people who are naturally happier than other people. That is certainly true. And so there are people who have an easier time seeing the bright side, always finding that silver lining. But I think what's really important for people to keep in mind is that if you're not naturally one of those people, there are actually things that you can do to become more positive. And I can say that with some experience, since I'm actually one of those people who does not naturally see the silver lining. You are not, and yet you wrote a book about and consider yourself happy and optimistic, yes? Well, I like to describe it as I'm somebody who has to work for my happiness.

So there are people who naturally really do see the world in an optimistic way. I gave a talk once on the subject of the science of happiness, and during the Q&A, a woman raised her hand and said, you know, whenever I'm stuck in traffic, I just look outside the window and I look at the sunset and I take some deep breaths and, you know, I just feel so calm. And I said, you know, that's a really interesting question and you really didn't need to come to this talk because she was, of course, already doing all of the things that we know lead to greater happiness.

I'm not one of those naturally happy people. So I'm not naturally optimistic or positive. And I have to work for my happiness. So I have gotten better at doing certain strategies, cognitively and behaviorally, that let me find happiness. But it's not my natural inclination. One of the reasons I think people are envious of happy people is seemingly when you look at them, their life seems more effortless. They seem to glide through life easier because they're not bothered and upset by the things the rest of us are.

And also, one of the reasons I think people are envious of happy people is that there are some very clear benefits to being happy. Yes, and that's a really important point, that it's not just happiness for happy's sake, although of course that is a worthwhile and good goal, but it's also the case that people who are happier tend to have better relationships because people like to be around people who are happier. So they tend to have better interpersonal relationships. They also are very, very consistently healthier. So we see that people who are happier also are less likely to experience, you know, minor colds, you know, flu, et cetera.

They recover faster from surgery and other benefits. They live longer. And they experience better success in their careers. Because, again, people like to be around people who are happy. So employers are more likely to hire happy people. They get promoted faster. They're more effective as salespeople, you know, and so on. So, yes, there are lots of ripple effects of happiness.

So you used the phrase a moment ago that you have to work on your happiness. What does that mean to work on your happiness? It does sound a little odd, doesn't it? So I think there's two sets of things. So one, changing how we think about the world. And so one set of things are basically about thoughts, that we often have a tendency in our society to overreact to things that are really not that big a deal. There's a great book written by a neuroscientist at Stanford that's called Why Zebras Don't get ulcers is that they only react in this, you know, high level of stress

and cardiovascular activity when they're literally about to die, when they're being chased by a lion or something. And humans, of course, have a tendency to do that all the time. You know, I have a blind date, I have a job interview, I'm late for my plane, you know, I have a lot of emails in my inbox, you know, whatever. Humans react like that all the time. And so one really important point is that we can all learn to be aware when we're overreacting, when we're over responding and try to take things more like the zebra. Is this really a life or death thing? Or could I kind of let this go and not overreact? So one set of things I do is to try to train myself to not overreact to small stresses that are not really life or death.

And is it that you train yourself not to overreact or you catch yourself when you do and say, oh, stop it? I would say both. So one, first I had become aware. So initially I was like, no, this is life or death. And then I was like, wait, wait, it actually isn't life or death. If my paper doesn't get accepted to this journal or my son does not get accepted as first choice college, this is not life or death. So first I had to actually become aware that I was thinking about these things as being much more important than they actually were. And then two, I had to, once I had that self-awareness,

I had to train myself to reframe these in a, this is an opportunity, not a disaster, and to be able to more naturally have a more positive thought pattern in response to negative events. Well, I'm thinking of the example of road rage as being kind of the perfect example of what you're talking about, because how many times have we seen in the news people who got ridiculously upset because someone cut them off, and they end up in prison. And that really wasn't necessary. That's a perfect example. And if you contrast that to the story I just shared about the woman sitting in a traffic jam looking at the sunset,

you can see how that difference really pays off. It always strikes me when you hear about parents getting into some horrible brawl, and in some cases, physical altercation that I think has led to, again, I think death and jail time for hockey parents or parents sitting at a youth soccer tournament or a little league game or whatever. And I'm like, how in the world could you be so invested in a, you know, 11 year old sporting event that, that you, you know, become irate at the other team or the other parents. And, and that's just a perfect example of like, listen, you're taking this like way too seriously and it's not good for you psychologically or physically.

Isn't it interesting, though, that when we do that, when people get really mad at somebody because of road rage or because the umpire called a strike when it should have been a ball, the next day you don't even think about it, or maybe you think about it and think, God, that was maybe a little over the top, but it doesn't change your behavior the next time. Well, so here's the thing. It can change your behavior the next time if you learn to recognize, whoa, whoa, whoa, this is what I'm doing, you know, and I can do this differently. So you're right, it doesn't naturally change your behavior, but if you recognize that repeatedly, you know what, when I'm in this, you in this work meeting with this particular colleague,

I find myself getting more and more irritated and overreacting. Having that level of self-awareness can give you greater insight into your behavior that you could then choose to respond in a different way the next time it happens. Again, you have to make that choice, but you could make that choice. What do you say to the person who maybe doesn't go that far, who doesn't, you know, yell at the umpire, get too upset, but basically has a less optimistic, less happy view of the world, and they take the stand that they're more realistic, that you are Susie Sunshine, unicorns, sunshine, rose-colored glasses, and I look at the world for what it really is. So I think the key is that people need to feel that they are happy in their lives.

And for some people, that happiness comes from having a realistic sense of the world. Bad things will happen, and some people are bad, and, you know, this is, you know, probably not going to go well. And for people who have that sort of realistic view of the world and feel that that gives them, you know, comfort and actually feel good about having that sense of certainty that things are not always good, I think that's actually fine because those people are actually happy in their perception of the world. I think the challenge becomes when there are people who find that they're basically going through life feeling more anxious, more depressed, more lonely, more sad than they wish they were. And that's really the key is that for people who don't feel that

they are where they want to be in their lives, there are things they can do to change their lives, that basically we're not doomed to be the same over time. And so for people who feel like they would like to have their lives be going in a different direction, there are actually things that we can do. Yeah, well, and I think, I know for myself, I've been in that state of mind because of circumstances where I, you know, I realize I'm just waiting for the next bad thing to happen. I'm waiting for the other shoot it because it always does. And then when you realize that when you think that way, that just takes a toll on every

other part of your life. Well, absolutely. And again, you know, you don't get that time back. So every minute that you spend, you know, sleepless or anxious or worried or, you know, waiting for the disaster, it's time that you don't actually end up getting back. And so being aware that, hey, you know, I want to enjoy my life and not just, you know, spend the entire time anxious or waiting for the other shoe to drop. That's really important to

recognize and to try to embrace changes that will let you enjoy life more consistently. So specifically, if somebody's listening to you and thinking, yeah, well, I get that. Maybe I ought to try this. What are some A, B, and C, toe in the water kind of steps they can try? Okay. Thank you for that question. Because again, I really do want people to be able to change their lives. So one, I described before, being aware of your thoughts, trying to change them, you know, to reframe situations in a more positive way. Two, there are a lot of behaviors that we can engage in in our daily lives that we know will bring us greater happiness. So exercising is one. People who

exercise feel better psychologically, they feel better physically. So getting enough exercise is a great thing to do. Another thing, getting enough sleep. That research shows that people who are sleep deprived, which of course we hear all that people who are sleep-deprived, which of course we hear all about in our society, are actually grumpier, they experience more conflict in their interpersonal relationships, and it's also bad for you physically. It leaves you more susceptible to illness and disease.

Three, doing something for somebody else. So research shows that people who volunteer in their communities, donate to charity, do random acts of kindness, any of those things, giving to somebody else is an extraordinarily beneficial way of making ourselves feel better. Well, and I think people have a general sense that happy feels better than pissed off. I mean, it just does. And because even people who are depressed all the time or most of the time have moments of happiness and like it. So why not try to create more of it? Well, exactly.

And basically, why not spend a greater percentage of your time feeling happier? So that doesn't mean, and you sort of raised this point earlier, that doesn't mean going through life feeling like every single thing is only positive, good, wonderful. But if you can increase the percentage of your time that you are spending happy or at least relaxed or whatever, that should be a good goal for all of us to try to achieve, because yes, it does feel better. I think, not to hammer this point too hard, though, that when you say, be aware of your thoughts and change them, well, how? I mean, if your thoughts are your thoughts, how do you change them? Yeah, so I'll be honest, it's not easy. So this is not, you know,

take a magic pill, just decide you're going to change your thoughts. So this is really about adopting with practice, new patterns of thinking. I look at this as, you know, somebody who says, you know, I'd really like to be able to run, you know, three miles or run a 5k or whatever, that, you know, the first day they go out, they're probably not going to be able to do it or they're surely not going to be able to do it very fast. But that over time, as you run, it gets easier, you develop a routine, and you develop new habits. So we've all had things in our life that we want to change.

So people who used to smoke and have stopped or people who have, you know, made other kinds of lifestyle changes, that what we see is that initially it's a lot of effort. It takes a lot of time. It takes a lot of energy. It takes a lot of effort. But over time, as you practice, it gets easier. So maybe initially, for those of us who happiness doesn't come to that easily, it's hard to adopt more positive thoughts. It just doesn't happen very easily. Your thoughts are your thoughts and you find yourself returning to the negative pattern.

But if you start catching yourself and reframing them over time, that habit of reframing in a positive way becomes more and more natural. So it doesn't happen immediately, but can it happen over time? Yes. So what's the goal here, though? I mean, you can't strive to be happy all the time, because that's not how life works. True. And so the goal is basically to increase the amount of time that you are spending feeling, and maybe the word isn't happy, so the goal is basically to increase the amount of time that you are spending feeling, and maybe the word isn't happy, maybe the word is content or peaceful or calm, and to decrease the amount of time that you're spending feeling anxious, depressed, ruminating about negative things, et cetera.

So basically just shifting, if you think about, you know, a 24 hour cycle or a pie chart, just shifting the percentage of time that you are feeling less happy and having that be more. And again, maybe it's happiness or maybe it's really, you know, contentment, peace, you know, lack of anxiety, et cetera. So if you want to share this, what was your epiphany? Because you said this isn't you naturally. So what happened that made you say, all right, time for a change? Well, so one is I kept, you know, doing research and reading and writing about this topic. And I had always felt, well, you know, happiness was just beyond me, that I was not going to be one of these people who could find happiness.

It just was not within me. And what growing amounts of research kept telling us is that actually this is something that you can change with habit. I look at this as similar to what research tells us about metabolism, that there are people who can naturally eat whatever they want. My brother is like this. My oldest son is like this. They can just naturally eat whatever they want, and they never gain any weight because they have just a really fast metabolism, and so calories just magically get burned. And I'm not like that.

I have to actually carefully watch what I eat and make sure I get enough exercise, et cetera, in order to stay healthy. And so I think about happiness in much the same way, that happiness for some people comes very naturally, comes very easily. But I learned that with practice, what the research was saying is you actually do have control over changing your thought patterns and tendencies or mindsets. Well, as you know, there are a lot of books and seminars and podcasts all about happiness. And it's good to hear what the science says, what the research says works and the benefits of making yourself happier. My guest has been Katherine Sanderson. She is the Manuel Family Professor

of Life Sciences at Amherst College, and she's author of the book, The Positive Shift. You'll find a link to her book at Amazon in the show notes. Appreciate it. Thanks for being here, Katherine. No problem. No problem. Good luck with the piece. Take care. Bye-bye. I read this thing a couple of days ago, and I thought about it every time I go to talk on my cell phone. Think of all the places you put your phone. Now, remember that all those places can transfer bacteria to your phone. Then you hold that phone right up to your face.

And when you do, you transfer those bacteria from your phone to your face, and that can cause acne. We know that bacteria is one of the main causes of acne, which is why it is so important to clean off your phone screen regularly, according to Deborah Jaliman, a New York City-based dermatologist. Any time a patient comes in complaining about acne, the first thing she asks them is what side of their face they usually hold the phone against. If it's the same side that's breaking out, she says that before she recommends any topicals or oral medication to target the acne, she suggests that they use earphones or a headset while they're on their phone

and see if that reduces the blemishes significantly. And oftentimes it does. And that is something you should know. I know every podcast asks you for ratings and reviews, and I've asked you many times myself. But they do help. I really appreciate them. And they only take a moment.

So wherever you listen to this podcast, Apple Podcasts, Google Stitcher, tune in wherever you listen. Please take a moment and leave a rating and review. I'm Mike Carruthers. Thanks for listening today to Something You Should Know. Do you love Disney? Do you love Top Ten lists? Then you are going to love our hit podcast, Disney Countdown.

I'm Megan, the Magical Millennial. And I'm the Dapper Danielle. On every episode of our fun and family-friendly show, we count down our top 10 lists of all things Disney. The parks, the movies, the music, the food, the lore. There is nothing we don't cover on our show. We are famous for rabbit holes, Disney-themed games, and fun facts you didn't know you needed. I had Danielle and Megan record some answers to seemingly meaningless questions. I asked Danielle, what insect song is typically higher-pitched

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