Something You Should Know - The Surprising Biology of Love & How to Keep More of Your Money

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Starting point is 00:00:27 Download June's Journey now on Android or iOS. Today on Something You Should Know, valuable lessons we can learn from the parking lot at Disney World. Then, the biology of love and the science behind a successful relationship. What the data says about the highest predictor for successful relationship, it has nothing to do with the other person. The predictor for my successful relationship is how satisfied I am with my life, with my career, with my friends.

Starting point is 00:00:59 Also, is going barefoot a good idea? And you can save quite a bit of money by asking for deals on things, breaks on fees and charges, if you're willing to ask. I totally get not wanting to be cheap, but people's budgets are really tight. It really can be a classic example of it can't hurt to ask. The worst thing that they're going to say is no. All this today on Something You Should Know. This is an ad for better help. Welcome to the world. Please read your personal owner's manual thoroughly. In it, you'll find simple instructions for how to interact

Starting point is 00:01:39 with your fellow human beings and how to find happiness and peace of mind. Thank you, and have a nice life. Unfortunately, life doesn't come with an owner's manual. That's why there's BetterHelp Online Therapy. Connect with a credentialed therapist by phone, video, or online chat. Visit BetterHelp.com to learn more. That's BetterHelp.com. Something You Should Know. Fascinating intel, the world's top experts, and practical advice you can use in your life. Today, Something You Should Know with Mike Carruthers. Oh, if you've ever been in love, or want to be in love, or are curious about love, this episode is for you.

Starting point is 00:02:22 You're about to hear a really interesting conversation about the biology of love. Welcome to Something You Should Know. I'm Mike Carruthers, and we start today with this. Whether it's a party, or a meeting, or a trip to Disney World or Disneyland, you're more likely to remember the beginning and the end of the experience more than what happened in the middle. Walt Disney knew this, and that's why when you go to Disneyland or Disney World, you'll notice something very interesting. The experience in the parking lot is usually about as pleasant as a parking lot experience can be. The parking attendants and the tram operators have nice uniforms, they're well-trained, well-organized, and they make the experience as brief as possible.

Starting point is 00:03:09 Because research shows that even if you have a great time in the Disney park, if the first or last part of the experience, meaning your experience in the parking lot, is unpleasant, it will taint your memory of the entire trip. You can use this knowledge to your advantage when you host an experience. Make sure the beginning and the end are pleasurable to all the participants. And that is something you should know. Hopefully, and most certainly, you have experienced different kinds of love in your life. Parental love, love of a child, or a relative, or a friend. Romantic love, even the love of a pet.

Starting point is 00:03:54 It's all love, and humans, it seems, crave it. But, as you may have noticed in your life and in the lives of everyone around you, love is problematic. As wonderful as it can be, it can also cause a lot of trouble. Most discussions of love focus on the feelings and attitudes and beliefs about love. But today we are taking a fascinating look at love through a biological lens, the biology of love. And through that lens, you'll discover how to improve the love relationships in your life. And you're going to hear a prescription for better romantic love and marriage that is different from what you've probably heard before.

Starting point is 00:04:37 And when you hear it, I think you'll agree it really rings true. My guest is Dr. Liat Yakir. She is a biologist specializing in genetics and science communication. She's a highly respected keynote speaker on the topics of biology of human emotions and the evolutionary roots of human behavior. She's author of a book called A Brief History of Love, What Attracts Us, How We Fall in love, and why biology screws it all up. Hi Liat, welcome to Something You Should Know.

Starting point is 00:05:09 Hi Mike, good to be here. So tell me, first of all, what's your working definition of love? What is it exactly? So as a biologist, I see love as an emotion, the emotion of bonding and attachment to another creature. It can be the lover, children, other relationship that we had with another creature. And it's the product of hormones that are produced in our brain and in our body that makes us bond to each other. And do humans crave it or we just, if we get it, we get it? We crave for it. We are born for love.

Starting point is 00:05:51 And the main hormone here is oxytocin, the love hormone, the bonding hormone, attachment, empathy. And we are social creatures. Without love, we perish. We need this hormone to relax our nervous system. Our nervous system needs another nervous system to be relaxed and to feel secure. So we crave love.

Starting point is 00:06:15 So we call it all love, but the different kinds of love are really different. The love you feel for your child or your parent is very different than the love you feel for a romantic partner. Yet it's all called love and they all must deliver some reward. Love as a relaxation asset is our bond with any creature. Yeah, even our pet and of course our parents and family and friends. So we crave this oxytocin, this hormone that we can get only in relationship. But the romantic love is the most complicated and it starts at puberty and it has three stages that we should discriminate between because it makes our life more complicated. So the romantic love is composed of the phase of attraction,

Starting point is 00:07:07 which is mainly led by testosterone and estrogen. When we start to be interested in the other sex, it takes our brain 30 seconds to decide if we are attracted sexually to a person or not. Of course, it's subconscious. And the second phase is the infatuation stage, the falling in love, the stage that all the songs and the stories talks about, that takes between six hours to two years, this infatuation stage, the butterflies in your belly.

Starting point is 00:07:41 Six hours to two years? Yeah. Wow. Usually, in in average around one year even today even 10 months it takes us to fall in love with somebody the infatuation phase that you feel that you cannot live without that person and you crave for their proximity and they you sit by the phone for the message to come. So this is the infatuation stage. And the last stage and the prolonged stage is the attachment where there's no more butterflies in the belly and you don't crave for a text message, but you feel secure and you feel relaxed and you feel attached to the person.

Starting point is 00:08:30 You feel good friendship and also some desire and love, of course. But every stage is led by different hormones. In the attraction stage, is it ever possible, does it ever happen where two people are attracted to each other, but without the sexual desire, the sexual potential. It's just two people just really click and get along, but there's no desire for sex. Yeah, that's a very good question, Mike. And for me as a biologist, looking at humans in evolutionary terms, everything is about sex. So our brain is very hardwired, especially the ancient areas are wired for sex. So when we see somebody, the ancient areas of the brain are the first ones to switch on, and we look at the person and we find them attractive or non-attractive. And in biological terms, it means, will I sexually want to be around this person?

Starting point is 00:09:30 And as I said, it takes the amygdala, emotion control center of the brain, 30 seconds to decide yes or no. If I want to be with that someone or not, our higher areas of the brain like the prefrontal cortex we say no I'm not only attracted to the physical appearance of a person and can be a sepia sexual for example like I'm attracted to smart people with people with high intelligence so high emotional intelligence but this is the other areas of the brain that are making rationale of the attraction. But basically, it's all about sex in nature.

Starting point is 00:10:11 When you say it's all about sex, is it all about sex the same way for both sexes? And what I mean by that is, I think it's just kind of a general feeling, assumption, opinion, I don't know, that men are much more attracted to the physical and that women are, that that's less important, that that's further down the list. Yes, she still looks at the physical appearance.

Starting point is 00:10:39 And when we look at the research in dating apps, we see that women look first on parameters of height of the men, be a little more higher than her before she looks at the social status. So physical attraction is very, very important also for women. And testosterone and estrogen play the role testosterone make men be more physically in average 15 percent higher in mass than women and women look for somebody to be bigger than her you know feel feel comfortable feel like she's protected she will say these things but it's basically the attraction for higher levels of testosterone which also will

Starting point is 00:11:26 make a man look more athletic or you know more muscles body features of testosterone and also estrogen so also women look at the physical appearance of men but you are right, the social status is also important for women. And in all mammalian kingdom, females don't like any male, they are attracted to the alpha male, or males that show the signs of the alpha male. So they have a higher social status than the other, the dominant ones in the territory. So still, you are right, it's also for women. But also a man in the dating apps photographed with a guitar gets much more messages from women. So also music gives us good signs.

Starting point is 00:12:23 Men whose picture has a guitar, they're holding a guitar is more attractive to women. Yes. I guess it's signs of, you know, like making music and oxytocin. Oxytocin is secreted when we make music. So it may be more sensitive men connected to his feelings and can be a good partner and a good parent.

Starting point is 00:12:44 Maybe, I don't know, but still a guitar do it for women still today um it's not a conscious thing they don't say well i find him attractive because he's holding a guitar right it's it's very subconscious exactly 95 of what's happening to us our behavior is subconscious to us. And for me as a biologist, it is all rooted in our biology. And there is a logic behind them. In evolutionary sense, there is a logic behind it.

Starting point is 00:13:21 Also, men we see in dating apps are attracted to, of course, the physical appearance, the fertility signs of women, but also women that smiles a lot and convey in the photograph a joyfulness and vitality gets more messages for men. So men are not only looking for the physical appearance, but also for vitality signs and joyfulness and smilefulness. When we find someone attractive, it is just that. It's only attraction. It doesn't mean that that person would make a good partner, would make a good life partner. It's just a very initial physical or whatever what you just described. But it has nothing to do with,

Starting point is 00:14:06 and this person would make a good partner. Exactly. That's why I'm saying that there is no love at first sight. There is attraction from first sight, which is important, yes, but there is no love at first sight. And 10% of people, you know, they were asking in big surveys, 10% say that they knew it was it from the first sight,

Starting point is 00:14:24 and 50% say they even didn't have attraction at first sight. So they didn't even thought about going for another date. So we need to give a chance because love takes time. It takes time to secrete the oxytocin. It is secreted when we talk with each other, when we smile to each other, when we ask questions and talk about our lives and about our emotions and feelings. Sometimes people really eliminate, you know, after one date and they say, I didn't feel the attraction and that's it.

Starting point is 00:14:56 But love takes time. And when you start to secrete the oxytocin this special love hormone after a while you find the person more attractive than it he he was at the first or she was at first sight because oxytocin makes us euphoric and see the other person as more attractive when we know him it can be also for for the other side so when you find someone very attractive at first sight but then you know him and you know that he's not a good person, and suddenly he doesn't look so attractive. So it's all in our eyes and it's all the work of hormones. So we need to give love a chance. So there's this thing that gets thrown into the mix of attraction and infatuation. I'd like for you to explain. And that is this idea of being hard to get, that it's more attractive if somebody doesn't want you.

Starting point is 00:15:50 And it seems like, you know, you should want somebody who wants you and they should want somebody who wants them. But somehow in the human brain, when someone's hard to get, it makes them more attractive and doesn't seem to make much sense. In evolutionary terms, it makes. In, you know, human sense, it doesn't make sense because we should want somebody that wants us, of course. So I always say for singers, play hard to get.

Starting point is 00:16:21 Not too hard, of course, don't insult the other person, but don't be too available, especially for women sometimes. We get attached or we just want to hang out with the guy and automatically he can interpret it as, oh, she's, you know, desperate for or too attachment, too... Needy. No, dependent, needy, exactly. We're discussing the biology of love, and my guest is Liat Yakir, author of the book, A Brief History of Love, what attracts us, how we fall in love,

Starting point is 00:16:59 and why biology screws it all up. This winter, take a trip to Tampa on Porter Airlines. Enjoy the warm Tampa Bay temperatures and warm Porter hospitality on your way there. All Porter fares include beer, wine, and snacks, and free fast-streaming Wi-Fi on planes with no middle seats. And your Tampa Bay vacation includes good times, relaxation, and great Gulf Coast weather. Visit flyporter.com and actually enjoy economy. At Wealthsimple, we're built for whatever you're building.

Starting point is 00:17:37 Built for Jane, who wants to break into the housing market. We're built for Ted, who's obsessed with what's happening in the global markets. And built for Celine, who just wants to retire and explore the world's flea markets. So take a moment and think about what you're building for. We've got the financial tools to help make it happen. Wealthsimple. Built for possibilities. Visit wealthsimple.com slash possibilities. So Liat, often the explanation you hear about the benefits of playing hard to get is that people like a challenge. If you're too easy to get, you're not so desirable that people like a challenge. Is that it, that we want a challenge? Yes, because this challenge is basically the works of testosterone and also for male and females and this

Starting point is 00:18:26 testosterone makes us want to conquer to be with someone that it's not from our league and it feels like we have an accomplishment that's why it's really important to and not to be too easy to get. And also, I may also add that it implies also inside the relationship. Sometimes we think, okay, so we are in a relationship and we are married, so we don't need to play games anymore. But it's not necessarily true. Even inside the marriage, we need to sometimes play these games. I mean, not to be too needy. Why we don't hang out too much together. You are not with me. You are more with your friends.

Starting point is 00:19:10 Automatically, when someone's saying such phrases or sentences, the other one feels, oh, I need my space. I don't want to be controlled. So this game of testosterone applies before the relationship and also inside the relationship. Of course, there are, I'm sure, exceptions to pretty much everything you've said. And one of those exceptions I'd like you to talk about is, I think everybody probably knows someone who should not get married or should never have gotten married because they just don't seem the settle-down monogamous type. Are there people like that that are just wired that way that monogamy just doesn't work for them? of the population have a special variant of the gene for a dopamine receptor in the brain

Starting point is 00:20:07 that they called it the infidelity gene. You need more excitements and more conquers. And this 20% of population need more excitements than the others. But we all have this tension between monogamy and polyamory, if you want, or polygamy, that you want the attachment and security and relaxation and familiarity of a one person. But there is a price that we pay. And the price is the dopamine, because dopamine makes us seek for novelty, for new things. We have this wiring of the brain that makes us become tolerant to the same stimuli, the same kiss, the same touch with the same person. So after a while, like I said, six hours to two years, we find it boring sometimes.

Starting point is 00:21:00 And it's a wiring of our brain. It has nothing to do with the other person so in this in this game that this is what i'm trying you know to to educate and understand that it's it's written in our biology we will have to deal with this tension between the need of security attachment familiarity and also the need for dopamine and adrenaline and serotonin, which are coming for us from novelty seeking. And that's why sometimes we lose desire for the same person. But it seems, would you say that women are more monogamous or would you say that men are less monogamous than the other? No, no, I wouldn't say that because also we see when we look at the research about cheating,

Starting point is 00:21:48 we see it's 50-50, you know, between women and men. So there is no difference. You said a few minutes ago that there's this variant of a gene that makes people, 20% of people, less monogamous or more likely to cheat. Can you, like, actually test for that? Yes, even there are labs in the U.S. that you can send your DNA, and they will tell you if you have this variant of the gene.

Starting point is 00:22:18 There is also the monogamy gene. It makes the male more attached to the females, and also the female more attached to the male. So they stay together for forever and they don't cheat on each other. And usually they don't. They get depressed when they are not together. So there is also the monogamy gene and you can check for this also. So with all you know about this, do you have a prescription?

Starting point is 00:22:44 Like what makes a good monogamous relationship or what gets in the way of it? Yes, I have a prescription how to preserve love if we understand this biology. So first, what the data says about the highest predictor for successful relationship, it doesn't, it has nothing to do with the other person. It has all about, it has nothing to do with the other person. It has all to do with us. The satisfaction from life of oneself, yes. So the predictor for my successful relationship is how satisfied I am with my life, with my career, with my friends, with the meaning of life for me. And the second predictor is the levels of stress.

Starting point is 00:23:26 So the first thing we need to do is relieve stress and be more satisfied with our own life and it's in our own responsibility. The other parameter is the commitment to the bond and the appreciation of the partner and also sexual satisfaction. So also my prescription is to really work on the sexual satisfaction, knowing that the biology is against us,

Starting point is 00:23:54 but we can outsmart biology by keeping the engines of eroticism, by talking about it, by not pleasing each other too much, everyone has his own space, and be too not pleasing each other too much, you know, being, everyone has his own space and be too long to each other, you know, to be together, but also apart sometimes. And elevate the oxytocin level, you know, smile and touch and be with each other and talk with each other and do things together, but do things also apart. Well, what's interesting about your prescription is that we hear so often when couples are having trouble, you need to work on your relationship. And I never really understood what that meant.

Starting point is 00:24:36 But that's not what you're saying. You need to work on you maybe and maybe help your partner work on them. But it isn't so much about fixing the relationship according to what you just said yeah yes this is what I think because I see it also all as you know balance of hormones and if you are balanced with your hormones you know more serotonin I love serotonin you know dopamine is the novelty seeking to seek for what I don't more serotonin. I love serotonin, you know, dopamine is the novelty seeking, to seek for what I don't have. Serotonin is being happy with what I have. And I wish everybody could elevate their serotonin, which makes us look at what we have and be content and

Starting point is 00:25:19 be satisfied to have gratitude towards ourselves. Well, it's really unique to hear a discussion about love and relationships and commitment and all that through your lens of biology as opposed to the more psychological discussions that we hear. And I think it brings great insight into the whole issue of what's going on in relationships and what goes wrong and what goes right. I've been speaking to Dr. Liat Yakir. She is a biologist who specializes in genetics and science communication, and she's author of a book called A Brief History of Love, What Attracts Us, How We Fall in Love, and

Starting point is 00:26:00 Why Biology Screws It All Up. There's a link to her book at Amazon in the show notes. Thank you for spending the time today, Liat. Thank you. Thank you very much, Mike. It was a pleasure. From the kitchen to the laundry room, your home deserves the best. Give it the upgrade it deserves at Best Buy's Ultimate Appliance Event. Save up to $1,000 on two or more major appliances. Shop now in-store or online at BestBuy.ca. Exclusions apply. Metrolinks and Crosslinks are reminding everyone to be careful

Starting point is 00:26:34 as Eglinton Crosstown LRT train testing is in progress. Please be alert, as trains can pass at any time on the tracks. Remember to follow all traffic signals. Be careful along our tracks, and only make left turns where it's safe to do so. Be alert, be aware, and stay safe. A lot of people are having trouble making ends meet today. That's no secret. Interest rates are high, credit use is high, money is tight.

Starting point is 00:27:10 And in today's world where every dollar counts, there are some ways you can keep more of your money. And that's what Matt Schultz is here to discuss. Matt is Chief Credit Analyst at LendingTree. He has written for Bankrate, Business Insider, CBS Money Watch, and he is author of a book called Ask Questions, Save Money, Make More. How to Take Control of Your Financial Life.

Starting point is 00:27:36 Hey Matt, welcome to Something You Should Know. Thanks for having me. It's great to be here. So explain what you mean by how people can take more control over their finances than maybe they realize. would be that if you are late paying a credit card bill, if you're a day or two late, your credit card issuer may hit you with a late fee. And that can be in the past, it's been $30, $40 a shot. There's some rules that just changed that going to make that more like eight or $10. But still, that's that's real money that you are being charged for a simple mistake or an oversight or something like that. But most credit card issuers have a policy, unwritten or otherwise, that says that they will waive that fee for occasional offenders, but people have to ask

Starting point is 00:28:48 for it. So that like $8, $30 thing may not change people's lives. But when you add it all up, and you make those sort of asks and take that control in other aspects of your life, it can add up. Well, I think everybody's probably had that happen to them where the credit card payment was a day or two late or they just forgot to pay it or whatever. And then they get hit with that fee. And I'm glad to hear because I hadn't heard that that fee is going down because, yeah, it's been like 35, 40 bucks.

Starting point is 00:29:23 And now they're going to have to reduce that? Because I would imagine banks, credit card companies make a lot of money on those fees. I mean, it's almost pure profit. repeat offenders. So while somebody who only has to face that fee once in a blue moon can get it waived, the people who are paying that type of fee most and other bank fees like overdraft fees and stuff like that most often are the ones who may have that fee six, eight, 10 times a year. And that stuff really, really adds up. And those folks aren't going to get that fee waived. That's the announcement that just came down from the Biden administration that they're going to be in most cases for the biggest credit card issuers capping credit card late fees at $8 for in all instances, as opposed to $30 for the first instance and $41 for subsequent offenses, that savings is a big deal, especially when you consider that you might be saving that $25 five, six times in the course of a year. That adds up to real money.

Starting point is 00:30:50 Well, I always figure the bigger issue is when you're late with a credit card payment, yes, you'll often get hit with a fee and you can usually waive it. I've heard that credit card companies, if I recall, say you can do it once a year. That's their policy. But if you're one of those six times a year guys, that's not likely to, they're not going to keep waiving it and waiving it. But, but what also happens is your interest rate skyrockets after you're late by a day or two. Generally your interest rate isn't going to skyrocket if you're just late for a day or two. Generally, what happens is that you have to be 30, 60 days late with that payment in order for them to bump up your interest rate in that way. So if you're only a day or two late, really what it's about is calling up that card issuer and saying, hey, I just made a mistake.

Starting point is 00:31:51 Auto pay glitched or I was really busy or something like that and I didn't get that paid. Would you mind waiving it? And if you are somebody who hasn't been late very often, there's a really, really good chance that they're going to waive that. Well, besides credit card fees and late fees and that kind of thing, where else are we missing an opportunity here, for example? Well, one big other example is in the medical bill space. And it's certainly not breaking news to anybody that medical bills are a really, really big deal and a really, really expensive thing.

Starting point is 00:32:35 And the truth is that there is room to negotiate and room to just make sure that you are being treated properly with those medical bills. And one of the things that I've spoken with a bunch of people about is that first medical bill that you get, that statement that you get, oftentimes has errors on it. And if you don't check to make sure that what you are getting billed for is accurate, it can cost you real money. Like, for example, I mean, I've looked at bills, well, a couple of things. If insurance is going to pay for it, you're less likely to scrutinize the bill. If all you have to do is a $40 copay or whatever it is, then you're not going to go over line by line. But medical bills, whether on purpose or not, I always suspect it is, are impossible to

Starting point is 00:33:36 make sense of. And maybe if you're a doctor, you can, but you can't make sense of those things. You can certainly try. I mean, you don't have to understand every single thing in that space. But there are things that you can do and that you can understand that can really help. people from asking for these things, whether it's at the doctor's office or with the mechanic or with your IT guy or whatever the case might be, is that they feel that they can't possibly have a conversation with somebody that would be impactful because they don't know enough. But the truth is that sometimes it is just about asking somewhat simple questions. And with medical bills in particular, what you can do is ask the medical provider for an itemized bill of the services that you got and to include what are called CPT codes on that bill. And those CPT codes are essentially to medical services what like barcodes are to products in store. They are industry-wide accepted coding for specific services, procedures, and what have you.

Starting point is 00:35:11 And they are the true indicator of what you are getting billed for. And if you look at those and do a little bit of homework online to understand what the code is that is on that bill, you can see if you got charged for, for example, the wrong thing that may cost $5,000 instead of the thing that you actually got done that might have only been $1,500. So these things aren't necessarily simple, but you definitely can impact your costs and the way you handle things with a little bit of homework. Well, what about some of the simple things? I would imagine there are some things that we just never even think to ask. So we don't get, because if you don't ask so we don't get because if you don't ask you don't get little things like shopping at a furniture store or an appliance store that's run by a mom and pop

Starting point is 00:36:15 and asking them to add in throw pillows with that couch that you bought um or things like that. There are so many cases, really more often than not, in which you can negotiate. Now, it's certainly true that you're not going to be able to go up to the checkout counter at Kroger and haggle over the price of Cheerios and a loaf of bread, but with many, many other things you can, and oftentimes when the ticket price goes up, you may actually have a little bit more room to negotiate. So address the thing though that I think a lot of people have where you feel kind of, especially a mom and pop store like you feel like you're taking money from I mean they set the price as the price and here you're trying to like get a deal and you know that means they're going to make less money and

Starting point is 00:37:16 is it really worth it to save five dollars on this and I just it makes me feel kind of cheap. That's, that's a real thing. And there, there's no question about it. And, and there are, there is something to be said for leaning on your values as to how you negotiate and who you negotiate with. Like maybe you don't want to negotiate with a small business because you understand that their margins are really, really tight or you're not going to negotiate at a thrift store or someplace like that because you know that

Starting point is 00:38:00 even if you pay a little bit more, that money is going to a good place, that sort of thing. But what you also need to realize is that a lot of these businesses, they may not necessarily expect you to negotiate, but they're not going to run you off if you negotiate either. It really can be a classic example of it can't hurt to ask. The worst thing that they're going to say is no. So I totally get not wanting to be cheap, not wanting to come off as pushy or a Karen or something like that. But people's budgets are really tight. Oftentimes life's expensive in 2024

Starting point is 00:38:50 and that's not changing anytime soon. So there are little things that you can do that can make a difference. Sometimes you just need to pick your spots. Depending on what you're asking for, what kind of deal you're trying to get, I would always have trouble once I heard no of, well, what do you say now? You ask for something, they say no.

Starting point is 00:39:14 Okay, now what? Sometimes when you're told no, the best thing to do is just say, okay, no worries and move on. But there are times where there is value in escalating to a manager or even sometimes just calling back the next day because sometimes the person that you get on the other end of the phone has had a really rough day, has been yelled at 10 different times and just isn't going to help anybody. But maybe the next person that you speak to the next day will. So it can be worth sometimes asking and being willing to be rejected and being told no. And there's also something to it where you're where I talk in sports analogies a lot, and it's really a bit about kind of getting your reps in, where if you're told no the first time, it hurts, may take it personal, it may feel really bad. But if you get used to it and

Starting point is 00:40:21 understand that it's not personal, they're not doing anything to you intentionally, those may kind of roll off your back a little bit more. So if I wanted to do what you're talking about and negotiate with a cell phone carrier or a credit card company or whatever, you have scripts in your book, but give me a sample of how that conversation would go. With a credit card interest rate, for example, you can look at websites like LendingTree, where I work, and other credit card issuer websites or that you might get in your snail mail or your email and go into that conversation

Starting point is 00:41:06 where you say, hey, I've been a customer for a few years. I love your card. I've never missed a payment, but I got this offer for a card that's offering me a 19% interest rate instead of the 25 percent interest rate that I have now, who can I speak with about potentially having y'all lower my interest rate? And chances are they may push back a little bit. And in the case like that, it may be a situation where you follow up with, no, you're keeping it open ended. And they may say, well, let me connect you with my boss or let me connect you with somebody in our marketing team or whatever the case might be. And that can be a way for you to keep that conversation going and keep them from just cutting you off at the pass. I've also heard people say, but I've never done it, is, so if you have like a cable TV or

Starting point is 00:42:35 internet service or whatever, and you got some kind of, you know, teaser offer at the beginning, and then your rate goes up, that can call and you know get get the monthly fee lowered absolutely true i mean there's no guarantee that it works every single time but i think by now that is so common that uh that cable companies might might even expect people to do that and cell phone providers as well. And that's an example of when there's a really, really competitive marketplace, you have real value because those companies look at you in terms of your lifetime value, meaning that when you stick around, you spend more money and they make more money off of you. So if you ask for a reduced rate for a few months, that's probably not going to be that big of an issue for big mega cable company because they want to keep you around

Starting point is 00:43:47 and keep you spending money. And once you kind of understand the whole lifetime value idea and that you are valuable to that company, it keeps you from feeling like you're going in on bended knee asking for scraps and makes you feel like you're coming at it with more of a position of power. And that can really make a difference in how you feel and how you approach that call. But I've always wondered, and maybe you've looked into this, because I have some experience with this, that some of these companies are aware that people will be doing this stuff and they throw up roadblocks specifically to make it difficult. And is that a fair statement or not? Yeah. No, it's definitely fair i mean it's it's it's not news to these big companies that people will try and call and um and ask for breaks

Starting point is 00:44:56 and that if you know that going in it it can be okay And that's one of those examples where you kind of have to think through at the beginning, how far you're willing to go. And it's the example of if you're at a car dealership and you're negotiating over a rate and you're like, well, I'm just going to walk out that, that, uh, that car salesman is going to follow you and suddenly have that better deal. It's the same thing. If you are willing to cancel that credit card or that gym membership or

Starting point is 00:45:39 something like that, um, you don't always have to bring that sort of hammer. Sometimes it's, it's just not necessary, but there are definitely occasions where you will get pushback and it may be a little bit harder, but that doesn't mean that you can't end up eventually getting a little bit of something at the end. Yeah. Well, I know we had an experience with a major cell phone carrier. Just time after time, every time, there was a problem.

Starting point is 00:46:12 And, oh, we have to check with this. And then they would promise to do this, and then it never happened. And then you'd have to call back. And so we finally switched carriers. And, you know, now we get all those things in the mail and emails. Yeah. Come on back. Come on back. No, sorry. switched carriers and and you know now we get all those things in the mail and emails yeah come on back come on back no sorry you made it so difficult we're never coming back that happens all the time people have limits as to how how far they're willing to be pushed before they take action

Starting point is 00:46:41 and the other thing that people should understand is what you said at the end there is that they come back offering you ways to save if you come back. And depending on how badly hurt you feel or how awful you were treated, you can leverage that sometimes. Well, as I listened to you, I think back on all the times I thought about, you know, asking for that deal or maybe I should, maybe I shouldn't. And you think about all those times, how much money over the course of time I might've saved if I had but didn't, probably a lot of money. Matt Schultz has been my guest. He's the chief credit analyst at LendingTree,

Starting point is 00:47:30 and he is author of a book called Ask Questions, Save Money, Make More, How to Take Control of Your Financial Life. And there's a link to that book at Amazon in the show notes. Thanks, Matt. Thanks, Mike. This was a lot of fun. I appreciate you having me. Is it good to go barefoot?

Starting point is 00:47:49 Well, depends on who you talk to. Some people are strong supporters of earthing. That is, being barefoot in order to pick up electrons from the bare earth. It is said that earthing reduces inflammation, prevents and treats chronic inflammatory and autoimmune diseases, and produces measurable differences in white blood cells. It can even reduce pain levels, they say, and some say going barefoot even has mental health benefits. On the other hand, research shows that people have been wearing shoes of some sort for more than 40,000 years, and there's a pretty good reason for that.

Starting point is 00:48:28 Footwear provides important structural support, comfort, and protection from a wide variety of threats, including sharp objects, pests, heat, and invisible germs. You can't see them, but bacteria, fungi, and viruses are common in showers, locker rooms, pools, and anywhere else with a lot of water or moisture. These microorganisms can lead to infection and change your foot's appearance. The fact is that when you go out in public, you're walking on surfaces that hundreds, if not thousands, of people have walked on before, and you have no idea what you're coming in contact with. So should you go barefoot?

Starting point is 00:49:13 Well, it kind of depends on where you go barefoot and how important it is to go barefoot. And that is something you should know. If you follow this podcast, we pop up on your phone or other device three times a week, three episodes a week. We hope you'll listen. And also remember, we have a huge back catalog of shows that you may have missed. I'm Mike Kerr Brothers. Thanks for listening today to Something You Should Know. Welcome to the small town of Chinook, where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper. In this new

Starting point is 00:49:41 thriller, religion and crime collide when a gruesome murder rocks the isolated Montana community. Everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug-addicted teenager, but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced. She suspects connections to a powerful religious group. Enter federal agent V.B. Loro, who has been investigating a local church for possible criminal activity. The pair form an unlikely partnership to catch the killer, unearthing secrets that leave Ruth torn between her duty

Starting point is 00:50:09 to the law, her religious convictions, and her very own family. But something more sinister than murder is afoot, and someone is watching Ruth. Chinook, starring Kelly Marie Tran and Sanaa Lathan. Listen to Chinook wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Jennifer, a founder of the Go Kid Go Network. At Go Kid Go, putting kids first is at the heart of every show that we produce. That's why we're so excited to introduce a brand new show to our network called The Search for the Silver Lining. A fantasy adventure series about a spirited young girl named Isla who time travels to the mythical land of Camelot. We'll see you next time.

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