Something You Should Know - What Really Influences What You Purchase & The Benefits of Being Bold

Episode Date: January 2, 2023

When you use a public restroom, is it better to use a paper towel or an air dryer to dry your hands? In terms of getting your hands really clean, there is really one clear choice. This episode begins with answer. http://lifehacker.com/5967976/ Everything you buy is the result of a decision you make. From breakfast cereal to a new car, you decide what to purchase. And there are a lot of things going on that influence that decision. Some of those things will surprise you. Listen to my guest, Phil Barden, who is a marketing expert and author of the book Decoded: The Science Behind Why We Buy (https://amzn.to/3v7If6P) He joins me to discuss the purchasing process we all go through to figure out what to buy and what not to buy.  Do you think of yourself as bold? Do you speak up and ask for what you want or are you more likely to sit back and take what you get? “Fortune favors the bold” is a phrase you often hear and it is something Jennifer Cohen certainly believes in. Jennifer has a brilliant TED talk on this topic (https://www.ted.com/talks/jen_cohen_the_secret_to_getting_anything_you_want_in_life_given_by_jennifer_cohen) and she is host of a podcast called Habits and Hustle (https://habitshustle.com/). She is also author of the book Bigger, Better, Bolder: Live the Life You Want, Not the Life You Get (https://amzn.to/3jlI6tO). If you have ever regretted not speaking up and asking for what you want, you need to hear this discussion. Have you ever had a waiter or waitress come to your table and ask how everything is going and you said it was great even though it wasn’t? Most people do because it is a hassle to complain. But NOT complaining could be costing you. Listen as I explain. https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-squeaky-wheel/201112/telling-white-lies-comes-price PLEASE SUPPORT OUR SPONSORS! Did you know you could reduce the number of unwanted calls & emails with Online Privacy Protection from Discover? - And it's FREE! Just activate it in the Discover App. See terms & learn more at https://Discover.com/Online Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Download June's Journey now on Android or iOS. Today on Something You Should Know. In a public bathroom, is it better to dry your hands with a paper towel or an air dryer? Then, why you buy what you buy. There's a lot that goes on that determines what you purchase. Our choices will change depending on not only where we are, but who we're with, the time of day, what we're doing, what's the temperature. All of these are contextual factors, and as they change, so our choices change. Also, are you reluctant to complain in a restaurant even when things aren't going well?

And the power of being bold and asking for what you want more often. You don't just act one time and think, okay, now I'm bold. But I did notice when things were working out for myself and when I actually got certain wins, it was because I had the courage to ask for something. All this today on Something You Should Know. At Wealthsimple, we're built for whatever you're building. Built for Jane, who wants to break into the housing market. We're built for Ted, who's obsessed with what's happening in the global markets, and Built for Celine, who just wants to retire and explore the world's flea markets. So take a moment and think about what you're building for.

We've got the financial tools to help make it happen. Wealthsimple. Built for possibilities. Visit wealthsimple.com slash possibilities. Something you should know. Fascinating intel. The world's top experts. Hi there. Welcome to Something You Should Know. When you're out and about and you have to use a public restroom, usually the restrooms have either air dryers to dry your hands or paper towels. And sometimes you have a choice. They'll have both, paper towels or air dryers.

So which is the better choice? The answer is paper towels. According to a study by the Mayo Clinic, paper towels are better at fighting bacteria than air dryers are. That's because we use friction with paper towels, and that friction helps to dislodge the microorganisms while your hands are drying. Handwashing experts say that friction is the most important element of the process. Antibacterial soap isn't in contact with your skin long enough to really do the job, so they say that drying with paper is an important precaution to take, especially where hygiene is particularly important, such as restaurants, hospitals, and schools. And that is something

you should know. You and I buy things all the time. We make choices about what to buy and what not to buy, and we like to think those choices are based on logical, firm, sound thinking. But there are a lot of other factors at play here when you buy something. Why do you buy it? Why do you buy, say, one make of car over another or one brand of soup over another? What goes on in your brain when you make a decision to buy? It's something that Phil Barden studies. Phil is a marketing expert and author of the book Decoded, the science behind why we buy. Hi, Phil. Hi, Mike. It's great to be here. So let's start with brands, because to some degree, why we buy some things is because we're

brand loyal. We like that brand. But I've heard that and read that in recent years, brand loyalty is waning. People, with a few exceptions, people aren't so brand loyal as they used to be. Is that a fair statement? Yes, I think so. Nowadays, there are far many more substitutes available. You do get some real diehard loyalists who will only drink one brand of cola, for example. But generally, people shop from a repertoire and they're quite happy depending on the price, depending on the convenience, where they are, the context in which they find themselves. They're quite happy to swap out one brand for another as long as it meets this job to be done. As long as they functionally perform and they also tick a box in terms of the social,

emotional, and psychological level, then we're quite happy to buy from a repertoire are there some basic rules that sellers retailers who whoever is trying to sell us something are there things that they're doing that are trying to maneuver us into in in a particular direction and maybe an example or two if it it's true, an example would help. For sure. There are some tactics that everyone should watch out for. And I'll give you a couple of classic examples. When you're online and you're looking at a product and a little window pops up and says, only two left in stock. Or if you're looking at booking a flight or a hotel room and you see something that says, five other people are looking at this room or this

flight right now, it triggers a sense of urgency in us that goes right back through evolution because our ancestors lived from famine to feast and they didn't know when the next supplies or particular resource would be available so then the nudge was to get what you could when it was available and when we see something that says that there's there's time pressure or that quantities are limited we do feel this urge to click online or to buy in a store. And that's something we should watch out for, because often it can tip us into a purchase that we might not otherwise have made if we weren't under that time pressure, or if we didn't feel that quantities were limited.

I'm sure you don't know for sure the answer, but I bet you have an opinion. When it says, hurry, only two left, are there really only two left? Well, that depends. Sometimes there are, but there have been cases that have been called out by the industry and advertising standards bodies where this is deliberately misleading. And in fact, if you're online and you cleared your browser, cleared your cache and your history, and you go back into the same website, you might find that in fact, there are seven left the next time you visit. So you really need to be careful with this sort of thing. I hear things like there have been studies where they're trying to sell wine. And if they play French music, French wines sell more.

And if they play Italian music, Italian wines sell more. That makes it sound like we're so swayable. We're so impressionable that we'll just kind of go with the, you know, it doesn't sound like we're really being very critical in how we think about things. What you're talking about is an effect known as priming, and it's been around for decades. You think when you go into a supermarket and you smell freshly baked bread, that's another example of priming. It triggers your appetite. Now, the fact is that you will not buy bread if you don't want it, right?

Even though there's this lovely smell of warm baked goods coming at you. Similarly, if you hear French music or Italian music or whatever, and you don't need to buy wine that day, then you're not going to. So it's not like the supermarkets are tricking you. It's not like they're making you do something that you don't want to do. When the studies you're talking about with the music played in the aisles where wine is sold did influence purchases, but it was people who were already going to buy wine. So, yes, we can be swayed by this, but not tricked into doing something that we wouldn't otherwise have done. Well, that's good news because it almost seemed like the way that you hear these tactics tried that we're so well. And the grocery store is a good example of of how we hear so much about the psychology of the grocery store.

You know that you're the longer you stay and the more they can make you go to the back of the store, the more you'll buy. Like you're just like a an idiot you know this idea that we're sort of walking around like like zombies um ready to be brainwashed is is couldn't be further from the truth well wait a minute wait a minute wait a minute haven't you ever bought something where you didn't really need it you didn't want to take it back you could have lived without it but you bought it anyway because it looked kind of cool. And so here it is in your house. And it really wasn't necessary.

I can't honestly say that I have, no. Really? Yeah. Yeah, really. No, I've been triggered into buying stuff, but simply because I've bumped into it in the store. And that happens with a lot of purchases. You know, whenever we make a purchase decision, it's either a memory-based decision. You know, I might write a physical shopping list or just have a mental shopping list of things that I know

that I need. And that constitutes my reason for going shopping. But when I'm in the store, then I will be stimulated by other things in the store. And that's the same whether it's a department store or grocery store or wherever. And simply the fact that I have seen things can trigger a purchase decision. But I go back to what I said before. I'm not being made to buy something against my will. So what are some of the other things that maybe we're not aware of that affect our decision making? And by that, I mean things like, I don't know, music or lighting or any of those kind of things that push us one way or the other or help us nudge us to make a decision there are some quite strange effects that have been studied in psychology a great example was in 1997 when nasa started the

pathfinder series of space exploration to the planet Mars. I can remember it well seeing it on TV. But whilst that was going on, the Mars confectionery company in the US reported an abnormal jump in sales. And they said, it's really weird because we're not doing any extra promotion. We're not doing any extra advertising. And yet sales of Mars are rising. And the psychologists came in and explained this. They said this is an effect known as fluency. And fluency in the brain is a cognitive process that basically says once we have been exposed to one particular stimulus, the next time we see that stimulus, it's processed more easily. And the fact that

it's processed more easily makes it become more familiar to us. And as a result of familiarity, we like it better. So what was happening was that people in the u.s were being exposed to the word mars on a daily basis it was in all the news reports on all the all the tv channels it's mars mars mars mars thanks to the nasa program and when they went shopping and saw a mars bar that this fluency triggered a purchase simply because it was easier for them to process in the brain. And the same thing explains why sales of orange-colored items rise at Halloween, which just sounds crazy, doesn't it? And it's because orange is such a salient color at Halloween because of pumpkins, of course, that sales of quite unrelated orange items like soda drinks, orange flavored soda

drinks go up at the same time because the color orange is present. So there are some weird things. And as I said, this is not forcing people or making people do things against their will. You know, people will buy a Mars chocolate bar quite happily. It just so happened that the process was made easier because the word Mars was so salient in the media. That is really weird. It is a strange one. Another interesting example for you is known as the framing effect, which basically says that the way information is presented affects our perception of things. So, if you give people some ground beef and you label it as 90% fat free and then you show people the identical ground beef but label it as 10% fat so objectively and rationally they're identical right 10% fat is exactly the same as 90% fat free. But people will tell you that the 90% fat free meat is better quality, it's healthier, and they're willing to pay

more for it as well. We talked earlier about music in relation to selling wine. How does music affect our brain in terms of what we buy or don't buy or stay in the store, get out of the store, that kind of thing? Well, music can act strongly in the brain in terms of triggering memories. So, very often in our formative years, particularly teenage years, music can transport us back to a time and a place. So it can be very, very evocative. That's one effect that music can have. The other effect is that the rhythm and the tempo of the music can change our mood. So classical music will make us feel a certain way you know feel more calm but what depending

on the on the actual music of course but you know classical lullaby will is soothing it's calming it's what we what helped calm us and send us to sleep as a as a child whereas classical music that is a a march with its particular tempo and and rhythm will tend to make us feel a bit more excited and energized. And that's the case. We're not just talking about shopping here. That's the case in any time we're exposed to music. soundtrack that is enormously important in evoking moods and helping us to feel as well as see what's going on on the screen. We're exploring what makes you buy the things you buy. And we're doing that with Phil Barton.

He is a marketing expert and author of the book Decoded, the science behind why we buy. Bumble knows it's hard to start conversations. Hey, no, too basic. Hi there. The science behind why we buy. You can now make the first move or not. With opening moves, you simply choose a question to be automatically sent to your matches. Then sit back and let your matches start the chat. Download Bumble and try it for yourself. This is an ad for better help. Welcome to the world. Please read your personal owner's manual thoroughly. In it, you'll find simple instructions for how to interact with your fellow human beings

and how to find happiness and peace of mind. Thank you and have a nice life. Unfortunately, life doesn't come with an owner's manual. That's why there's BetterHelp Online Therapy. Connect with a credentialed therapist by phone, video, or online chat. Visit betterhelp.com to learn more. That's betterHELP.com. So, Phil, when someone decides to buy whatever it is, you know, a can of beans or a television set or a bottle of wine, when it gets right down to it, there's usually multiple choices. There's different, several different brands of beans or television sets, and they're all pretty much the same price. How does the brain figure out okay that one that's a really good question and this has been studied by particularly neuroscientists who have observed what activity goes on in the brain when people

make a purchase decision and it is is the same process irrespective of what we're buying, whether it's a TV set or a candy bar or an automobile or whatever it might be. The same process unfolds in the brain. And what happens first is that we perceive a so-called reward. There's a part of the brain which the scientists nickname the reward center, which helps us to make decisions. And it does that based on the associations that we have built with different offerings in the past. And those associations will be built through many different things. So the advertising that we have seen, our own personal experience with a brand, what other people say or tell us about the brand,

what spokespeople or influencers there might be for the brand, how the brand looks and feels, the packaging it has, any other sensory qualities that it might have, the reputation that we've learned that the brand has. All of these form neural networks of associations that when we come to be in a position where we want to make a purchase, let's take your example of the TV set. And if all the brands on offer are roughly about the same price, then we will tend to choose the brand whose rewards we have learned fit our job to be done best. I always remember a lovely conversation with a finance director of a car and automobile company. And he said, look, my last purchase decision was entirely rational. I had a fixed budget and I worked out what model I could have and what

engine size and what trim and specification I could have. And it fitted my budget. And that's an entirely logical, rational decision. And I said to said to him yes you're absolutely right but why did you go through all of that process to arrive at the decision and he said oh so I could have a BMW outside my house so what he just displayed there was this mixture of the functional rational stuff but also the social emotional psychological side that actually having a bmw outside his house said something about him as a person and made him feel a certain way and he chose bmw to do that rather than another automobile brand because of what he'd learned about bmw what it for, what the associations were.

And that's what was factored into his decision. There's something that I've noticed and I've heard people talk about on menus, restaurant menus, and it's the second most expensive bottle of wine where people don't want to buy the most expensive, but they don't want to look too cheap, so they buy the second most expensive. Restaurants know that, and they mark that second bottle up quite a bit, because they know people will go for the second most expensive bottle of wine. And I think I've fallen for that myself, but I'm not sure why. Well, this is something known as anchoring.

And what it tells us is, and it's based on the fact that our perception is always relative. It's never absolute. So we don't really know the value of, unless you're a real wine aficionado and an absolute expert, then how do you judge the value of a bottle of wine? And anchoring is the principle by which the first bit of information we see, so the most expensive bottle, acts as an anchor for what follows. And generally, we tend to pick a middle option. And lastly, something I find interesting about purchases that we make is how we sometimes buy something and look back and say, what was I thinking? Why in the world did I buy that?

When I started in the field that I'm working in now, one of my colleagues who is a psychologist said, human behavior is always the product of the person and the situation they're in. So that situation is contextual. And it's exactly why, for example, when you're on vacation and you drink a rosé wine somewhere very warm when you're relaxed, etc. And you come back home and you see that same wine on sale and you think, oh, I remember that was fantastic and I'll buy it. And you do and you drink it at home and it never tastes the same. It never tastes the same.

It never is good. And the reason is because the context has changed. Our choices will change depending on not only where we are, but who we're with, the time of day, what we're doing. Is it a business meeting? Are we on vacation? Are we meeting some friends? Is it a formal occasion? These are all contextual factors. Are we indoors? Are we outdoors? What's the temperature? All of these things.

What's the day of the week? All of these are contextual factors. And as they change, so our choices change. Now, we don't change as individuals. We're the same individual in all of those situations. But if you change the situation, then our choices can change. Well, given the number of purchasing decisions we all make, it's really important to understand what goes on behind the scenes or in our brain to help us make those decisions. And when you understand that, I think it also helps you make better decisions. I've been talking with Phil Barden. He is a marketing expert and the name of his book is

Decoded, The Science Behind Why We Buy. And you will find a link to that book in the show notes. Hey, thanks, Phil. Thanks for coming on. Thanks, Mike. It's been a real pleasure. Since I host a podcast, it's pretty common for me to be asked to recommend a podcast. And I tell people, if you like something you should know, you're going to like The Jordan Harbinger Show. Every episode is a conversation with a fascinating guest. Of course, a lot of podcasts are conversations with guests, but Jordan does it better than most. Recently, he had a fascinating conversation with a British woman who was recruited and radicalized by ISIS and went to prison for

three years. She now works to raise awareness on this issue. It's a great conversation. And he spoke with Dr. Sarah Hill about how taking birth control not only prevents pregnancy, it can influence a woman's partner preferences, career choices, and overall behavior due to the hormonal changes it causes. Apple named The Jordan Harbinger Show one of the best podcasts a few years back, and in a nutshell, the show is aimed at making you

a better, more informed, critical thinker. Check out The Jordan Harbinger Show. There's so much for you in this podcast. The Jordan Harbinger Show. There's so much for you in this podcast. The Jordan Harbinger Show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. People who listen to Something You Should Know are curious about the world, looking to hear new ideas and perspectives. So I want to tell you about a podcast that is full of new ideas and perspectives, and one I've started listening to called Intelligence Squared.

It's the podcast where great minds meet. Listen in for some great talks on science, tech, politics, creativity, wellness, and a lot more. A couple of recent examples, Mustafa Suleiman, the CEO of Microsoft AI, discussing the future of technology. That's pretty cool. And writer, podcaster, and filmmaker John Ronson discussing the rise of conspiracies and culture wars. Intelligence Squared is the kind of podcast that gets you thinking a little more openly about the important conversations going on today. Being curious, you're probably just the type of person Intelligence Squared is meant for. Check out Intelligence Squared wherever you get your podcasts. I'm sure you've heard the phrase, fortune favors the bold, which implies that the more you get out there, be bold, ask for what you want,

the more successful you will be in whatever it is you hope to do. And if that's true, what is it that stops so many of us from being bold, from speaking up, going after what we want? Why not be more bold? Well, someone who really understands and explains this concept so well is Jennifer Cohen. Jennifer has a brilliant TED Talk on this topic, and she is host of a podcast called Habits and Hustle. She's also the author of a book called Bigger, Better, Bolder. Live the life you want, not the life you get. Hi, Jennifer. Thanks for being here on Something You Should Know.

Thank you for having me. This is exciting. So, it's the new year. People are talking about new goals they want to achieve, things they want to get. Yet, so many of us, when it comes time to speak up and ask for what we want, we're timid. We're not bold. We worry about getting rejected. What if we fail? I don't want to make waves. And so we don't go after what we say we want. Absolutely. And there lies the problem, right? Because we are scared of failure and we have so much self-doubt. It's human nature, right? It's human nature to have these feelings. But it's about acting even when, even when you feel that way.

Because the truth of the matter is something in motion stays in motion. Something stagnant stays stagnant. That's why there's also that saying, when you're busy, when you want something done, give it to a busy person. Because inertia happens, momentum. So even if you have that self-doubt, even if you fear that failure, still act because you can't just go from A to Z and just be like, well, just be bold. It doesn't work that way. But if you get good at asking for the little things in life, you can get better at asking for the big things in life. So you start with these small,

little, bold moves that accumulate and compound over time. And I also believe that you need to become immune to failure. And the only way to get desensitized and immune to failure and rejection is by doing something over and over again. And that's why I have the 10% target. And a 10% target is based around making 10 attempts at anything you want most in life. And even if you don't get to that goal, even if you don't get to that goal, another opportunity will present itself that you didn't even know existed by just going through the process. So give me a concrete example of this idea in action.

So let's say you love sports and you want to work for a sports team. Then start working with that realm and make 10 attempts. You know, look at the people that are in your life. See who in your life is working for a sports team or email someone, go on LinkedIn and see who's the manager or the director of a certain division, right? But make these 10 attempts. So put the onus and ownership of your life in your hands and have some control over your destiny. And so this is what the message that I'm trying to really kind of get out to people is that you have to take agency and you can self-actualize and be whatever you really want to be, but you need to make that first step.

And the first step is always the hardest. But if you stay on path and put yourself in that situation to win, you'll be so surprised of what happens. Because the reality is most people don't even make one attempt. Almost nobody makes two attempts. So if you're somebody who makes 10 attempts, just on pure volume or just on pure just numbers, you're going to have a shot. And you have to have that idea in your head that, why not me? Why not me?

If it can happen to that person, why can't it happen to me? I think a lot of people think that being bold or not being bold is a character trait, that there are those people who are bold. And if you don't feel that's you, that a lot of this seems like this doesn't apply to me because I'm not that person. And that's true. A lot of people do feel that way. They feel that you need to be born bold. And if you're not born bold, then I'm out of luck. And the reality is that we can actually become more bold because boldness is a skill like anything else.

I wonder why we're not bold. Or maybe we start off bold, but we get shot down enough. We think, well, that didn't feel very good. So maybe I'm not going to be so bold the next time. That's true. That happens all the time. And that's why a lot of times naivety is a strength, right? Because the less we know, the more bold that we can be. Because remember when you were

a kid, you didn't know any better. So you just did, you acted, you moved, you did things. And then you kind of learn from things that happened to you, correct? And then what happens as we get older, we get much more timid in attempting or making that bold move because we have too much experience. We're too seasoned. So if we can go back to that idea and that ideology of naivete, when you actually did a lot of things, when you didn't know better, that's when things actually happen, right? Sometimes, though, I think, I guess I can speak for myself, that when you decide not to do something bold, it's because something's telling you not to.

And maybe that voice that's telling you not to is right. Maybe this isn't a good idea. And how do you determine whether it's worth taking the risk or whether maybe it really isn't a good idea? That's a good question. And the truth is you said the word right there in the question, which was risk. There's a difference between being bold and taking a risk. Bold and risk are different. When I think about boldness, I think about it being a calculated risk, like knowing, doing something that's safe, that you know that you're,

that I'm not telling, my message in being bold is not, if you have a family of four, don't quit your job and just go for the gusto like that. I'm saying be calculated in what your attempt is. And that to me is the main distinction between just being risky for the sake of risky and being bold for the life that you want. Because it's a lot of times, it doesn't even have to be these big, vast things that you're being bold for. It could be small things also, right? It could be things like, you know, maybe calling your credit card company or your self-service provider and seeing if there's a better deal on the table than what you're doing. It's about going to a restaurant and maybe sometimes asking for the sauce on the side. You know, it's about asking for what you want

in lots of different scenarios and a lot of different areas. It's not about just taking these big, bold risks that are dangerous. It's about just tailoring your life in a way that you're taking the onus and ownership on what you are given versus just having and taking what's good enough. When I think of bold, I think not only of asking for what you want, but it's also in how you ask. I don't think of somebody being bold in a very meek sort of way. Those two terms don't seem to go together very well. That's very true. You're right. And so there's a lot of, there's a, there's a connotation a lot of times with boldness that it can be aggressive or too assertive. But in life, it's not so much what you say, it's how you say it. You can be bold, but also be kind and nice and respectful, right? And so there's that

element that it's extremely important. You could ask for whatever it is you want in life if you do it in a nice way. And the truth of the matter is people don't balk at that. People balk when you're rude and dismissive and disrespectful. And so I think there's a lot of distinctions and ways that you could be bold in a very positive, kind, nice way. And so I talk about self-agency, right? Like if you believe you can, you can, and you will. If you believe you can't, you won't, and therefore you will not. So it's literally about number one, changing these negative ideologies in our heads and reframing the way we see things. It's about thinking what is the worst that can happen? Like even just that one sentence or that one reframe of, well, I'm not going to be any

worse off today than I was yesterday if it doesn't go my way. So what's the worst that can happen? And if you have that type of affirmation, right, then you act in such. So how do you be bold if you don't feel bold? If you do feel timid inside, how do you get this boldness that you're talking about? Boldness is a muscle, right? Like if you want to be strong, you don't go to the gym once and think you're going to be strong and fit, right? You have to go consistently over and over and over again.

And then eventually you get to be stronger and stronger. And then you need to maintain that strength. It's the same thing with being bold. You don't just act one time and think, okay, now I'm bold. You have to be consistent with the skill and practice of it by doing these little things over and over again to strengthen your boldness muscle and to become something. You've got to change the neuroplasticity of how you see yourself. And the only way to do that is to act and to do and to practice consistently. I'm somebody that I wasn't born this way, but I did notice when things were working out for myself and when I actually got certain wins, it was because

I had the courage to ask for something and go after something and create these opportunities. And it wasn't because I was the smartest or the prettiest or the most athletic, it was because I actually just asked the question. And I think we get in our own way the most, right? We are our own worst enemies. And we don't even allow ourselves to, like I said, self-actualize to where we want to be and can be. And the truth of the matter is what's worse, rejection or regret? To me, regret is way worse than rejection. You get over rejection, right? Like it may hurt and you may have to lick your wounds for a few hours or a day or two, but the what ifs are much, much worse. And those live with you over and over and over again in your mind. Sometimes forever. Forever. Exactly. And it's happened to me. Even me being bold now, I mean, I've had a lot of

things happen where I thought, yeah, now I practice. I'm bold. I wrote a book on bold. And I still sometimes have self-doubt and don't do something that I think and know I should because I get scared of the same thing that I'm saying. But because of that not doing, that regret, I remember that feeling. And so when you remember that feeling of regret or what if, that's a great motivator to not do it another time. You use the word courage. And I always think of bold and courageous and confidence to be kind of part of all the same thing. Like you can't have one without the others kind of thing.

If you're going to be bold, you've got to have courage to be bold. And you've probably got to have a certain level of confidence to be bold. And a lot of people often feel they don't have those other two things. I agree with you. They're all basically sisters and brothers to each other, right? And, you know, confidence is the best way to gain confidence is through recognizing your other accomplishments that you've had and really, really kind of recognizing them and celebrating them. Right. The best way to, in my opinion, people ask me all the time about confidence, like, well, how do you even get the confidence to do this? Everyone has strengths and weaknesses, right? And there has to have been some small wins in your life at some point, no matter how small they were, but recognizing those and holding on to those. And the other thing is you can count yourself.

You have to count yourself. Even if you kind of take a breath and say, okay, three, two, one, let's go. Even if it's being brave for 20 seconds, we can all do something for 20 seconds. You can do all these little things to kind of give you that like burst of confidence just to kind of get through the door, right? And over time, like I said, your neuroplasticity starts to change. And the reality is being courageous, being confident, the way people get that is by acting, is by doing, and then seeing yourself doing those things and noticing these little wins and recognizing these little wins and doing these little brain tricks, like

saying, okay, I'm not confident, but you know for 20 i can do this for 20 seconds i can make this call or i can say this one thing and it's going to be 20 seconds what's the worst that can happen in those 20 seconds i don't get it okay and there's ways to psych yourself up into that until that actually becomes your new normal i remember years ago it dawned on me that, because I would see people who like would get jobs, positions, opportunities that they clearly didn't seem qualified for, but they always, they were like good at getting the job, but not necessarily very good at doing it. And I used to think like, how do they do that? And then it dawned on me because they asked, they applied,

they went for it and they were good at doing that. They weren't necessarily good at the job, but everybody who's had a boss that you wonder like, how did he ever get his job? Probably because he was bold enough to go ask. 1,000%. 1,000%. We all have those people in our lives. We have all had those people in the life. On my podcast, Habits and Hustle, all I do all day is talk to the most extraordinarily successful people on the planet, the biggest disruptors in the world. And the one thing, the one through line with all of these people that I've interviewed is boldness. It's not that they were the smartest. They weren't the smartest. In fact, a lot of them flunked out of college and some of them out of high school. They weren't exceptional in anything. But what they had was perseverance, persistence, tenacity, and boldness.

And that is why this is not just me riffing off or talking from a white ivory tower. This is honestly not just... This is experience, people I've seen. This is backed research. It is all of those things. And I got a job with the Toronto Raptors when I was, which is a, you know, the Toronto NBA team when I was 20 years old. Um, in like, I was like in a sales, a sales position where I had no prior sales experience. It was right after college.

It was the most coveted job. Everyone wanted, everybody there was like, were sports fanatics, sports fans, big basketball fans. And I got the job because I was so persistent. And I asked for it over and over again, that eventually they're like, you know what, this girl, let's give her a shot. I ended up being a really good salesperson, you know, shockingly enough. But the point is, it's like, that is what happens. And by the way, just to kind of close the loop on that story, my boss was a total nitwit. He didn't belong in that position, but he was so bold that he got the job. And he, by the way, he kept it because sometimes that is what it is. And it, and, and, you know, I, I feel that if people really, really like took that to heart, it would really, it would really propel them to at least give themselves a shot, right? The hardest part,

the stop is the stop is in the start a lot of times. So, you know, you just have to act. Yeah, well, I think your point about rejection lasts a short time, but the regret of what if I had can last a lifetime. And I've always felt that and felt that, you know, I don't want to get to the end of my life and wonder what if. Gee, what if I had done that? What if I had done that? What if I'd done that? Although we all have some of those, we try to keep those to a minimum, I think, because

then you spend a lot of time wondering and what good does that do you? Also, wasted potential. At the end of your life, that's the worst feeling, right? That you had all this potential and you had all this possibility and you didn't do anything with it or you didn't try to do anything with it, right? You had this potential in you to at least, like everyone can ask a question, everyone can try, right? It doesn't take talent to do those things, but you can always try and put yourself in a position to win, but you have to create and make those opportunities. You got to put yourself in a place that that can actually potentially happen. And another sister, we talked about confidence and we talked about courage, but we didn't talk about curiosity. And curiosity to me is the other brother and sister, right? Because if you are curious, that's where you can really find a lot. That to me is a gateway to connection and communication and where you find a lot of things, a lot of information that you don't know. And if you can harness and ask questions in a very authentic way, be curious in an authentic way,

that in itself opens up the gateway for so many opportunities to be bold in. Well, one of the things you said that really rings true for me, because I've done things in my life that were pretty bold and didn't work out and maybe felt a little foolish for a while, but not for very long. But there are other things that I didn't do, didn't go after, wish I had, and I still think about them and wish I didn't. So I really like the message of being bold. Jennifer Cohen has been my guest. She is the host of the podcast called Habits and Hustle. She has a great TED Talk on being bold,

and she's author of a book called Bigger, Better, Bolder. Live the life you want, not the life you get. And there's a link to that book in the show notes. Thanks, Jennifer. This was a the show notes. Thanks, Jennifer. This was a lot of fun. Thanks, Mike. This has been so fun. Thanks for having me on your podcast. Do you ever lie when the waiter or waitress comes over to your table and says, so how is everything? And you say it's fine even when it isn't fine. Well, a lot of people do that and they end up paying for it, literally. People who lie typically go to great lengths to convince others of their honesty,

whether they realize it or not. So if you report that your meal is great, when really it's not so great, you'll probably tip generously so that your tip matches what you said. After all, you said the meal was great, you don't want to look like a cheapskate, so you leave a nice tip. Researchers put this theory to the test and found that the majority of patrons would rather say everything's fine and tip accordingly than to complain, citing that it's more trouble to speak up and complain rather than just say everything's fine. On the flip side, those people who did voice their displeasure felt justified leaving a smaller tip if the problem was not resolved.

And that is something you should know. And that wraps up our first episode of 2023. Happy New Year. I'm Mike Carruthers. Thank you for listening to Something You Should Know. to entertain and engage and, you know, possibly enrage you. And don't blame me. We dive deep into listeners' questions, offering advice that's funny, relatable, and real. Whether you're dealing with relationship drama or you just need a friend's perspective, we've got you. Then switch gears with But Am I Wrong?,

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