Something You Should Know - What You Need to Know About Cars and How to Buy One & How to Stop Overthinking

Episode Date: April 2, 2020

Would you like to hear some really good and solid advice that will make your life simpler and easier? This episode begins with some excellent bits of wisdom I am sure you will use in your life. http://www.raptitude.com/2015/02/67-short-pieces-of-advice-you-didnt-ask-for/ If you ever have or ever will buy, sell or drive a car, you must listen to my conversation with Jack Gillis. Each year for 40 years, Jack has written a new edition of The Car Book (https://amzn.to/2X0tFOP) which details virtually every new car that model year in terms of safety, maintenance, customer complaints etc. He joins me to discuss what every driver needs to know about cars and offers some great advice on how to buy one.  Are you holding a grudge against someone? If so – or if you ever have in the past, I have some wonderful insight into how a grudge does you absolutely no good and why you need to let it go. (Source: Interview with Fred Luskin Director of the Stanford University Forgiveness Project) Do you ever find yourself ruminating and overthinking things over and over again? If so you may have noticed it is not very productive and in fact in can be harmful. Anne Bogel is a blogger, podcaster and author of the book Don't Overthink It (https://amzn.to/2JgntKA). She joins me to discuss why we overthink, the damage it can do and how to stop it. This Week's Sponsors -Grubhub. For $10 off any order of $15 or more (for new diners only), download the Grubhub app and use promo code SYSK Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

As a listener to Something You Should Know, I can only assume that you are someone who likes to learn about new and interesting things and bring more knowledge to work for you in your everyday life. I mean, that's kind of what Something You Should Know was all about. And so I want to invite you to listen to another podcast called TED Talks Daily. Now, you know about TED Talks, right? Many of the guests on Something You Should Know have done TED Talks. Well, you see, TED Talks Daily is a podcast that brings you a new TED Talk every weekday in less than 15 minutes. Join host Elise Hu.

She goes beyond the headlines so you can hear about the big ideas shaping our future. Learn about things like sustainable fashion, embracing your entrepreneurial spirit, the future of robotics, and so much more. Like I said, if you like this podcast, Something You Should Know, I'm pretty sure you're going to like TED Talks Daily. And you get TED Talks Daily wherever you get your podcasts. We'll be right back. Read more ads about the car we have just purchased after we've made the purchase than before. And that's because we want to reduce our post-purchase dissonance. We want to be reminded we made a really good choice. Plus, what to do if you're holding a grudge against someone.

And how and why to stop overthinking. And you probably do it at very specific times of the day. We do it when we're tired. We do it when we're tired. We do it when we're hungry. We do it when we've just gotten bad news. The research is quite clear. Overthinking makes life harder. It hurts our relationships,

and it may even contribute to mental disorders like depression, alcohol abuse, and severe anxiety. All this today on Something You Should Know. People who listen to Something You Should Know are curious about the world, looking to hear new ideas and perspectives. So I want to tell you about a podcast that is full of new ideas and perspectives

and one I've started listening to called Intelligence Squared. It's the podcast where great minds meet. Listen in for some great talks on science, tech, politics, creativity, wellness, and a lot more. A couple of recent examples, Mustafa Suleiman, the CEO of Microsoft AI, discussing the future of technology. That's pretty cool. And writer, podcaster, and filmmaker John Ronson discussing the rise of conspiracies and culture wars. Intelligence Squared is the kind of podcast that gets you thinking a little more openly about the important conversations going on today.

Being curious, you're probably just the type of person Intelligence Squared is meant for. Check out Intelligence Squared wherever you get your podcasts. Something you should know. Fascinating intel. The world's top experts and practical advice you can use in your life. Today, Something You Should Know with Mike Carruthers. Hi, welcome to Something You Should Know. I hope you are being safe and staying healthy. We start today with some advice from, it's from a blog actually called Raptitude. It's from a guy named David Cain who's a Canadian blogger. And he published an article a while ago with some really good unsolicited advice that could really improve your life. For example, ignore one-star and five-star reviews

of books, hotels, and any other product. The three-star reviews will answer all your questions. Learn keyboard shortcuts. If you don't know what Control-Z does, your life is definitely harder than it has to be. Control-Z, by the way, is the most used key combination to undo the previous action. Reach out to people you know are shy. It's hard for shy people to get involved in social things without somebody making a point of including them. If you need to stop for any reason in a public place,

move off to the side first. Everyone will greatly appreciate that. Before you share an interesting fact on social media, take just 30 seconds to Google it first to see if it is pure baloney. When driving, pretend that the other drivers are all friends and relatives. It makes the driving experience friendlier and sometimes hilarious. Don't act while you're still angry. Remorse lasts way longer than anger. And own at least one plant.

Plants will never judge you, but they will let you know when you're being careless or forgetful. And that is something you should know. Let's talk about cars. Even though you may not have any place to drive right now, cars are an important part of our lives. And there are always changes and innovations in the car business in terms of how the cars are made and how they're sold. Auto safety is another important thing for car owners, as well as all the technology that's now available in cars. And as important as cars are in our lives, buying one isn't always easy or pleasant. Well, we're going to talk about all of that with Jack Gillis. Jack is Executive

Director of the Consumer Federation of America, and every year for the last 40 years, 40 years, he's published the Car Book, where he looks at new cars one by one and tells you how well it drives, how expensive it is to maintain, how safe it is, and a lot more. Welcome, Jack. Well, thank you very much, Mike. It's been many years that we've been talking about the car book. And so let me ask you, first of all, is it just me, or does it seem that cars have gotten very bland and they all kind of look alike? You know, when I was a kid, it seemed that you could tell a Ford from a Chevy from a,

and now they all kind of have that same look. Is it me or is it true? It is absolutely true, Mike. In fact, like you, I used to be able to look at a taillight and identify the vehicle. Today, not only are cars looking and SUVs looking more and more like each other, but the manufacturers are keeping the same model for four, five, six years. So there are very few changes on a year-by-year basis. choice of a new car really opens up options because while the cars may look the same, there are differences in their safety features and performance. But is it by design that they look alike? I mean, why should this car look like that car when different companies make it? It makes you think they all get together and go, well, this year's car is going to look like this.

Well, I think it's a matter of being a little bit fearful about being odd. You know, there are three or four odd looking vehicles on the market, the Cube, for example. And they don't sell well. Consumers are looking for more homogenous vehicles, and the manufacturers are responding by making them look a lot like each other. More and more of us are making conservative choices, primarily because we want our cars to look okay for longer periods of time. We're keeping our cars longer and longer. So the more they look alike and the less the manufacturers change them from model year to model year, the less we stand out because, like me, I'm driving a 10-year-old vehicle that looks pretty good. It looks like one of the vehicles that was just rolled off the assembly line.

As you step back from, and you've been looking at this every year in great detail for a long, long time, when you step back, what's the big, most impressive change in cars, and maybe what's the least impressive? Well, I think the most, there are two things that are very impressive. One is the significant increase in the safety of today's cars, and that's never been more true than in the 2020 models that are out there. And the second is as we keep our cars and want to keep our cars for longer periods of time, they're lasting longer, and they're on the road for longer periods of time, they're lasting longer, and they're on the road for longer periods of time. There's no reason why the car that you buy today won't last at least 150, maybe 175,000 miles with relatively minimum maintenance. And that certainly wasn't true 10 years ago or 15 years ago. When you look at the technology that's in a new car right now, are you amazed by it, as I am?

Or do you think we could be further along? No, I am amazed at the technology, mainly the safety technology. The technology in terms of operating the vehicle, that is moving it from point A to point B, in terms of the internal combustion engine or the gas-powered car, is pretty much reaching its limit. There are more tweaks that can be made, but it's pretty much reaching its limit, and it's time to move into alternative sources of energy. But in terms of the safety features, when you think about the fact that a number of vehicles today will be able to stop if something runs in front of the vehicle, or will keep the vehicle within the lane that you are driving on a highway, or have cameras that enable you, when you're parking, to see all sides of the vehicle.

That's pretty amazing technology, and it is potentially life-saving technology. What about, there's always been this kind of, well, I've noticed it anyway, that there's so much going on in a car that can distract you. And now with all the information and all of the entertainment that's available in a car, is that a concern or not? That's a very serious concern. In fact, distracted driving is one of the major reasons for today's accident rate. Distraction can be everything from non-technical items such as eating in the car or doing your makeup in the car to trying to figure out the infotainment system, to trying to change the radio station,

to trying to adjust your GPS system. All of these can be very, very distracting. And as the dashboards become more sophisticated, many of us are losing the ability to quickly make the types of changes we'd like to make while driving. In addition, while there is the opportunity for passengers to use Wi-Fi within a car, for example, or to access the internet within a car via the car system, we're looking for more technology to prevent the operator from becoming distracted with that technology. How do people typically buy cars? And what I mean by that is, I remember hearing that generally speaking, people buy a brand of car, and they keep buying that brand of car until they get a

lemon or they get some reason to get upset with that car company, and then they'll switch and then do the same thing. Is that your sense of how generally people buy cars? Because of what we talked about earlier, Mike, it's becoming less and less so as vehicles become more and more alike each other. You know, back in the day, there were Ford people and Chevy people, and there were even Chevy and Buick people, even though many of those vehicles came off the same line with just different styles. But people swore by one brand over another, and they stuck with those brands. That's becoming less and less true. The brand loyalty got its first hit when Japanese cars and Korean cars started flooding the market. And people looked around and said, you know, I've been buying Fords for years,

but this Toyota really is less expensive and has more features than the ones I've been buying. So that has moved people away from brand loyalty. It still exists. And one of the things that I've learned over the years is that often we as consumers read more ads about the car we have just purchased after we've made the purchase than before. And that's because we want to reduce our post-purchase dissonance.

We want to be reminded we made a really good choice. Has the playing field leveled out? Have American cars and Japanese cars and, well, they're all made everywhere anyway, so even that line is gone, right? That's right. It's really hard to find a vehicle that, and probably impossible to find a vehicle that is 100% American or even 100% imported. And that's because all of the major global car companies are now building cars here in the U.S. And many of the U.S., traditionally U.S. car companies, are building their cars in other places and importing them.

So that differentiation between American and imports has really gone by the wayside. We're talking about cars, all things about cars. And my guest is Jack Gillis. He's author of The Car Book. Hi, I'm Jennifer, a founder of the Go Kid Go Network. At Go Kid Go, putting kids first is at the heart of every show that we produce. That's why we're so excited to introduce a brand new show to our network called The Search for the Silver Lining, a fantasy adventure series about a spirited young girl named Isla who time travels to the mythical land of We'll see you next time. recommend a podcast. And I tell people, if you like something you should know, you're going to like The Jordan Harbinger Show. Every episode is a conversation with a fascinating guest. Of course, a lot of podcasts are conversations with guests, but Jordan does it better than most. Recently, he had a fascinating conversation with a British woman who was recruited

and radicalized by ISIS and went to prison for three years. She now works to raise awareness on this issue. It's a great conversation. And he spoke with Dr. Sarah Hill about how taking birth control not only prevents pregnancy, it can influence a woman's partner preferences, career choices, and overall behavior due to the hormonal changes it causes.

Apple named The Jordan Harbinger Show one of the best podcasts a few years back, and in a nutshell, the show is aimed at making you a better, more informed critical thinker. Check out The Jordan Harbinger Show. There's so much for you in this podcast. The Jordan Harbinger Show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. So, Jack, you've been doing this a long time, and I think a logical question is, why should we listen to you? How do we know you don't have an agenda? And isn't car buying and how you look at cars in some ways very subjective?

I like the car I like. You might not like the car I like. You know, we're not influenced by advertisers. We don't take any corporate funding at all. And the Center for Auto Safety, which is the publisher of the car book, is probably the preeminent automobile safety organization in the country. And buying a car today, the vehicles are so complex that you have

two major hurdles to overcome. First of all, sorting through the vehicles to make sure you find one that meets your needs. And then secondly, going through the purchase process. Most of us absolutely detest the way cars are sold. We feel uncomfortable. We're matching wits with a seasoned professional who's not only doing this every day, but trained to get as much money out of our pocketbooks as possible. So those two elements make the purchase of a car a very challenging thing for most of us. The good news is, as we've said a couple of times during this program, because cars are more alike than they are dissimilar, it's a little bit harder to make a bad choice. There are today a lot of new ways to buy a car, you know, apps on your phone,

services that where you just you buy the car, they deliver it to your door. There's car vending machines. Your thoughts? That definitely is the way of the future. And it is especially prevalent right now, as manufacturers are scrambling hard to keep sales up during this COVID-19 virus situation. So more and more manufacturers and their dealers are working to to communicate with us virtually, deliver cars to our doors, make the purchase process touch-free. That is, for example, Tesla will enable you to go to a certain place. They will identify where the car is. All the paperwork will be in the car for you to review and sign. And then as you drive away, you just hand the paperwork out the in the car for you to review and sign. And then as you drive away,

you just hand the paperwork out the window to an agent. More manufacturers are delivering cars to consumers' residences so they can take a look at them without having to go out and shop in a show showroom and keep their social distance. So these companies that innovated with online purchasing or purchasing apps are really ahead of the game in terms of figuring out how to sell to consumers during this new world that we're all in. And the prices that they have, some of them say, we'll show you what everybody in your area has paid for this car, or we'll get you the best price. Can we trust that? No, you really can't.

But the good news is, because of price competition, there's no question that the more homework you do, the lower your price will be regardless of the car. And the key to getting the lowest possible price is one of the hardest things to do, and that is to pit dealers against each other. And that's why in the car book we recommend the service of Car Bargains, which is a nonprofit organization which will search five dealerships in your area. Those dealers know that you have paid for this service so that you will be buying a car. They know what each other has paid for the vehicle, and so they have a strong incentive to give you the very best price. The prices when you are able to actually pit dealers against each other are generally lower than when you use a service, regardless of whether that

service is from Costco or Trucar or any number of other services that are popping up. Now, having said that, most of us don't have the time or may not want to make the investment in that shopping around process. So for many of us, to get the car delivered to our door or to avoid having to negotiate, it's worth paying us $400, $300, $400, $500 more for the car because that is a painful process. My recommendation is you find out the manufacturer's suggested retail price. You select a vehicle in your price range that meets your needs. Then you look up, and this is readily available on the internet, the invoice price

of that car. Now, the invoice price theoretically is what the dealer paid for the car. There are all kinds of deals between the dealers and the manufacturers. So it really isn't exactly what they paid. But if you can get that car around the invoice price, then you've done a good job. Get the car, go home, and enjoy it for the next 10 years. One of the parts of that process, though, is that, okay, so you get the price, and then, oh, yeah, well, we have to add this, and then there's this other thing, and then all of a sudden, that's not the price anymore. Well, that's right. Those are what we call the dealer add-ons. end of the purchase process when you might be in the finance office trying to get the paperwork

signed and you find yourself under enormous pressure to buy floor mats, get rust proofing, buy an extended service contract, and so forth and so on. And so many of us are so exhausted by that point in time that we just say, fine, I'll take it. Let me get out of here. My admonition is hang in there. Don't buy any of those extras whatsoever and stick with the original price. And it'll be painful, but it'll save you money. Aren't some of those extras, though, presented as mandatory? Oh, there's the advertising fee, whatever the heck that is, and these other fees that we add on. It's not your choice. We just add them on. Right.

There are certain things like dealer preparation charges that are automatic and that are non-negotiable. Those are relatively limited. What you are going to find more of, though, is, well, you know, Mike, we've already put these really great floor mats in this car. And, you know, normally they retail for $500, but I understand you don't really want them. We really think you should get them because you want to keep this car for a long time. So here's what we're going to do. We're going to sell them to you for our cost. We're going to sell them to you for $250.

Well, then you go, oh, gosh, no, I don't want them for $250. I don't want them at all. I don't want four of that. Well, you know, we really can't take them out of the car, you know, how about $100? So you have to go through that process. But my advice is just say no to dealer add-ons. But if you use one of those services, then doesn't that get cut out? Yes, and that's one of the benefits of buying online. You can be extraordinarily specific about every aspect of the vehicle, you know, what color you want, what kind of interior you want, which version of that model you want, and you can say, listen, if you don't find it exactly like this, you know, I'm not going to buy the vehicle.

And unless it's some odd combination that's very hard to find, the sellers will bend over backwards to find you that vehicle. Does anybody do like they used to do in the olden days where you would, you know, order your car? I guess you kind of have to order a Tesla. But, you know, I remember the olden days of, you know, you'd order the color and all the options that you wanted, and then you'd wait. And they would more or less put together or find that car somewhere. Does anybody do that anymore? Sure. Some of the higher-priced vehicle manufacturers, such as Mercedes, will do that. If you want a very specific Mercedes with 10 different features, they will take an order, they will put it through the factory process, and you may wait as long as four to six months to get that vehicle.

What is more likely to happen, however, is the particular vehicle you want is not on the dealer's showroom. So you will give the dealer, you know, all of your criteria. And what they will then do is swap vehicles. They will search their network of like dealers, and they will make a deal with somebody else. You know, Mike wants a blue Hyundai Sonata, and we don't have one, but I know there's one about 500 miles away. I'll ship it in and get it to him in the next week or so. But you'll generally have to make a down payment or a deposit to make that happen. Lastly, I have to get your take on lease versus buy. Well, I've always said this, Mike. It's always going to cost you more to lease a car than to buy a car. It's not a free enterprise. And one of the things that often happens with people who lease

cars is the sticker shock comes at the end when all of a sudden you've gone over your mileage requirement. You've got some dings and dents on the outside of the car. Your kids have spilled chocolate milk all over the back seat, so you get deductions from that, and you end up having to pay to get out of the lease. Well, it is certainly less expensive on a monthly basis than if you could have purchased that car over time. Once you've ended the lease, you've got nothing, whereas if you end your time payment plan, whether it's two, four, or now going as long as five and six years, you've got a tangible asset that you can keep driving because that car will likely last you another four or five years with

no payments. And that's where buying always pays off more than staying in a leasing cycle over and over and over again. There is something wonderful about that first month after you've made the last payment and there's no payment. There's nothing better than that feeling of not having a car payment. Exactly. And most of us never get out of our house mortgages like they used to years ago. So now you can at least get out of the mortgage on your car. Well, great. I think that answers a lot of questions about the technology and also how to buy a car. A lot of things I think people wonder about.

You've done a great job in providing the information. Jack Gillis has been my guest. He is Executive Director of the Consumer Federation of America, and he is author of The Car Book. And you will find a link to that book at Amazon in the show notes. Thank you, Jack. Thanks for being here. All right, Mike. Great talking with you and stay safe. Bye-bye. Do you love Disney? Then you are going to love our hit podcast, Disney Countdown. I'm Megan, the Magical Millennial. And I'm the Dapper Danielle. On every episode of our fun and family-friendly show, we count down our top 10 lists of all things Disney. There is nothing

we don't cover. We are famous for rabbit holes, Disney themed games, and fun facts you didn't know you needed, but you definitely need in your life. So if you're looking for a healthy dose of Disney magic, check out Disney Countdown wherever you get your podcasts. Hey everyone, join me, Megan Rinks. And me, Melissa Demonts for Don't Blame Me, But Am I Wrong? Each week, we deliver four fun-filled shows. In Don't Blame Me, we tackle our listeners' dilemmas with hilariously honest advice. Then we have But Am I Wrong?, which is for the listeners that didn't take our advice.

Plus, we share our hot takes on current events. Then tune in to see you next Tuesday for our listener poll results from But Am I Wrong. And finally, wrap up your week with Fisting Friday, where we catch up and talk all things pop culture. Listen to Don't Blame Me, But Am I Wrong on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.

New episodes every Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, and Friday. Overthinking. There's a lot of that going on right now. Overthinking about the coronavirus and overthinking about all sorts of things, because there's nothing else to do. So you might as well sit around and worry yourself to death about all kinds of things. The problem is that overthinking doesn't help much, and in fact can cause you a lot of problems. Anne Bogle is a popular blogger and podcaster, and she's taken a serious look at the research on overthinking and written a book about it called Don't Overthink It. Hi, Anne.

Hey, Mike. Thanks for having me. So let's start by having you explain what overthinking is and where is the line between thinking and overthinking. I'm really talking about any thoughts that we consider to be repetitive, unhealthy, and unhelpful. Those times when our brains are hard at work, but they're not accomplishing anything. We're talking about the kind of thinking that just wears you out and makes you feel bad. And when it comes to where's the line between when do you go into overthinking, it really depends on the person and the issue. But it's not overthinking if you're giving something the amount of thought you want

it to. And on the other hand, it is definitely overthinking if you're lavishing your mental attention and energy on something that you don't think deserves it. And so give me some examples of overthinking to get people on board here. Oh, sure. We could be talking about little things like what to buy in the aisle at the grocery or what to wear in the morning or wondering why hasn't our friend called us back or why is our child running six minutes late? What happened to them? Or it could be over a bigger thing like where should I go to school?

Where should I go to college? What kind of job should I take? We're more likely to give dedicated thought to focus on making the right decision right and do it well. When it comes to overthinking, it's often our relationships and those smaller daily decisions that really trip us up. Sometimes, though, it seems like when you're overthinking, it feels, well, to me anyway, it feels like I'm working on the problem. That if I think, well, maybe I should think about it this way, or maybe I should think about it that way. And the more thinking I'm doing, the more I'm getting clearer.

Then that sounds like constructive thought to me. If your thoughts are helping you solve the problem, if you're making progress in the decision making, then it's not considered overthinking. But if you're retreading the same ground, again, if your thoughts are not helping you, but instead are maybe actively harming you, then we call that overthinking. And what's the harm? What's the harm in overthinking? I mean, something to do. But don't you have better things to do? First of all, no one enjoys it in the moment. But also their research over decades is quite clear. Overthinking makes life harder, it hurts our relationships, and it may even contribute to mental disorders like depression, alcohol abuse, and severe anxiety. So where does it come from, do you think? Is it human nature? Is it

evolutionary? Is there a reason for it that may have become obsolete? Why do we tend to do that? And who tends to do that? That's interesting. Overthinking is a widespread problem. The vast majority of people identify as overthinking at some point. We don't know exactly why. There are theories that it's to do with survival instincts that have served us well over the year. But a great researcher on this subject was the late Dr. Nolan Hoeksema. And she did say that we are suffering now from an epidemic of overthinking. That was, in fact, the word she used. Do we just have too much time on our hands? You know, if you're not dealing with or trying to figure out where your next meal's coming from, well, you've got to occupy your mind somehow, so let's just think this thing to death. That's interesting, because

studies do seem to indicate that we have more of a problem today with overthinking, but the reason isn't that we have excess leisure time, but it's opposed that it's our current relationship with technology. It's radically changed the way we live. And if we're not careful, our handy little devices that we often literally have on our person all the time, it's radically changed the way we live. And while it brings many, many benefits, it harms us in a lot of ways too. It astronomically increases the decisions available to us, whether we're deciding whether to check our email in any given moment or shopping for a new comforter for the bed. You have thousands of options where you didn't have nearly that many not that long ago. And

even if you turn your device off, you're always thinking about it. I know people though who seem to, and I don't know where they find the time to do all this, but decisions that they make that most people would spend a second making, they will, you know, like what color to paint the wall or what kind of carpet to get. They'll research the history of floor coverings and why we paint the way we paint and the psychology. I mean, they'll research it to death. And is that overthinking or is that just that's what they do? Well, when you're deciding whether you are giving something the amount of thought you want to, a key question is, would it be meaningful to make this decision myself?

Or would it be meaningful to do this amount of research myself? So the question really is, what is important to you? Some people really enjoy spending lots of time researching the process of buying a car or researching an upcoming spring vacation. They do that because they like to. And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. If you're resenting the amount of time that you're spending on it because you think this much focus is not necessary, we call that overthinking. Do people who overthink, do you think, know they're overthinking or it's just who they are? That's their process.

Many people who struggle with overthinking know they're overthinking. But what I found is that there are ways in which overthinking can be really sneaky. Many people who struggle with perfectionism may not realize that they're suffering from a lot of perfectionism-driven overthinking. I also find that many people who, generally speaking, are not overthinkers will get tripped up in one specific area of their lives, like relationships or decisions involving money. Those are two big ones. Is it hard to stop? I mean, it seems like you just have to know to stop. I mean, if you're overthinking, how do you then say, well, okay, I'm going to stop that. And then what do you do instead?

If you've been spending all this time overthinking, now you've got all this free time on your hands. Overthinking can be pervasive. And so you can't just decide to stop doing it. But there are so many strategies you can begin implementing right away that can score you small successes that lead to bigger ones. When we talk about overthinking, we're really talking about thought patterns that your brain has become accustomed to. But you can teach your brain new ways to think. And so there are a couple tricks that you can use beginning right now to help overcome overthinking in the moment it happens.

The first thing to do is really to pay attention to your thoughts. You can't change anything until you notice you're doing it. So the first step is to observe what you're thinking about. Where are you habitually directing your focus? Does your mind automatically notice the negative? Do you find that there are certain subjects you tend to unhealthily dwell on? Once you realize that, you can begin to change it. Also, you can make a mental habit of looking for the good in a situation. When you ruminate, your brain gets stuck in a negative thought spiral. And once you're paying attention to the negative, it's so easy to keep doing it. But if you notice what you're doing, you can disrupt that rumination pattern by looking for

a positive interpretation. This is a creative exercise that truly just snaps your brain out of that rut and it interrupts overthinking in the moment it happens. Another thing you can do is, I know this sounds silly, but you can schedule time to overthink because your brain likes to have a system it can trust. Johnny Cash famously had a personal to-do list that included worry along with pee and call mama. And researchers think this actually works because if your brain knows that every night at 7.30 you overthink for 15 minutes, it's less likely to nag you with those thoughts throughout the day. So you can corral that overthinking in a tight interval instead of letting it spill all over your life.

You know, it would seem to me, because when I think about overthinking and when I've done it, and I imagine everybody does it, yes, at some point? I would imagine at some point. That it's almost like scratching an itch. It's hard not to do it. It's hard to stop, even though you know that the more you scratch it, the worse it's going to get. But there's something about doing that that I guess it's in some way satisfying in some kind of odd, perverse way that going back and rehashing this, maybe I missed something, let me think about it some more,

satisfies you somehow. Yes, that's so true. Or I'm just going to refresh that screen one more time. I'm just going to hit my email button one more time and see what happens. It's hard to resist. If you are tempted to overthink, you can think of it like writing out a craving. Studies indicate that the average food craving only lasts a few minutes. So if you can avoid the craving for just that short period of time, you'll be okay. And the same holds true for overthinking. If you can find a positive distraction, and I don't mean checking your Instagram account or your email, those are not powerful enough. But if you can find a positive distraction for just eight minutes, it's really effective in breaking that cycle of repetitive

thought. It kind of goes back to the idea that you need more to do because if you were busy doing other things, there just wouldn't be time to do this. If you had to, you know, survive or do something to, it's just like you have too much time on your hands. So you keep going back to this thing and rethinking it and rethinking it because, because you can. Or you don't have the time and yet you're doing that instead. The reason distraction works is just like you said, the mind can only do so many things at once. So when you're tempted to overthink, you are unable to do it if you find another way to keep your mind occupied. That could be reading a book, paying a bill, calling a friend, playing 8 Minutes of Tetris, which studies show is remarkably effective because it requires the same old thing, but you're just taking a long time to make a decision or to, like there's 500 jellies on the shelf and you're taking a long

time to figure out, you know, do you want grape jelly or strawberry jelly? Do you want that brand or that brand? Is that overthinking or is that just being a thoughtful shopper? Well, that depends on if you're a pastry chef or someone who really has to get back to work for that important meeting. It's not overthinking if you're giving it the amount of thought you want to. There are some decisions where there's not really a bad answer. You just need to pick something. There's no perfect outcome.

There's no outcome that's really right. It doesn't matter what you choose because you can't go wrong. For many people, the jelly is one of those situations where you can't go wrong. Right. If it's your job to choose the right jelly, then that might not be the case. If the restaurant menu that you're responsible for making the baked goods for says you're going to have raspberry cookies, then they really need to be raspberry cookies. And it's got to be a great quality. But for most of us, we could just grab the jar and go in that situation. I remember hearing someone say that for decisions, most of

the decisions we make, it's not worth the time that people often take. It's the commitment to the decision afterwards that you don't keep looking back wondering if you made the right decision. You grab the jelly, you've made the decision, you commit to the jelly, and you're done. You don't go back and rethink and rethink that that is overthinking. Yes, overthinking often dwells in the space of what ifs and second guessing. We wonder if we did the right thing or we put something on our list and we think, does this really belong here? We wonder if we'll regret using our vacation time for the reunion.

And it's very true that teaching yourself that you decided the decision is in the past, it is okay, and moving on is a mental discipline that we can't develop perfectly, but we can strengthen with practice. So I get that overthinking is a big waste of time and perhaps can cause some stress, but I imagine people are thinking, yeah, but so what's the harm though? What's the big deal here? And the reason is that that mental energy that we waste overthinking, it's not a limitless resource. We only have so much to spend every day and how we choose to spend it matters. One of my favorite authors is Annie Dillard and she says, how we spend our days is of course how we spend our lives.

What we do at this hour and that one is what we are doing. And when we spend our time overthinking, that's what we are doing. But that's no way to live a life and all our individual decisions add up to the world we live doing. And when we spend our time overthinking, that's what we are doing. But that's no way to live a life. And all our individual decisions add up to the world we live in. That's not the kind of world that we want to live in either. When we don't waste our time, and I really do mean waste our time overthinking, there are so much better, more positive, more healthy, more compassionate and good and loving and joyful things we can be doing instead. And that really matters. If you're an overthinker and you spend a lot of time overthinking and you know that what you need to do is distract yourself from overthinking, is it always going to be a

struggle? Or if you get good at distracting yourself, do you eventually, does it fade away? The research shows that while it will never dissipate entirely, it does become better with practice. I love Dr. Henry Emmons. He wrote this great book called The Chemistry of Calm. And what he says there is since childhood, so many of us who struggle with overthinking have spent many of our waking hours reinforcing negative habits of thought. And we've empowered them over many years through attention and repetition. And anything that we practice consistently, we will eventually get good at. Many of us have become really good at overthinking, thanks, or really, no thanks to all the practice we put in. But when you start practicing new strategies, you reinforce

new and more positive habits of thought. And then you really do become much better at not overthinking. Say again what he said, that researcher said, or that author said. Anything you practice consistently, you will get good at. And many of us have gotten really good at the skill we don't want, overthinking. But if you can practice new strategies, new positive thought patterns, when you reinforce new healthy habits, you can become much better at not doing it anymore. I suspect there are other things about overthinking that may not be quite so obvious that you have found in the research about this. So if there are, can you talk about it? Yeah, when it comes to overthinking,

we often think about, okay, how do I interrupt overthinking in the moment it happens? But so many of us discount everything we do the rest of the time that really lays the foundation to overthink or not overthink. And what I'm talking about is taking care of our physical bodies, taking care of our physical spaces. We don't overthink when we're well rested. We don't do it first thing in the morning usually. We don't do it when we've just gone for a run. We do it when we're tired.

We do it when we're hungry. We do it when we've just gotten bad news. If we can learn to take care of our bodies, we really do set ourselves up for success in this area. Well, as I said in the beginning, at this time in our history, it is so easy to overthink, A, because this is unprecedented, what we're going through with the coronavirus, and B, we have so much free time on our hands because there isn't a lot to do. It's very easy to let your mind start to wander and do the what-if-ing and overthink and really get yourself in trouble. Anne Bogle has been my guest. She is a blogger and a podcaster. She has a podcast called What Should I Read Next that's quite popular, and it's all about books. And the name of

her book and the thing that brought us together today is called Don't Overthink It. And you'll find a link to that book in the show notes. Appreciate you being here. Thanks, Anne. Thank you. Here is one of the best definitions of forgiveness that you'll ever hear. I love this. Forgiveness is giving up all hope for a better past. Isn't that great? Perhaps a more practical definition is that forgiveness is making peace with something that didn't turn out the way you wanted. It doesn't mean that you approve or condone it.

Not forgiving hurts you more than anyone else. The person you're not forgiving and holding that grudge against probably is unaware or doesn't care about the grudge you're holding. By letting go and forgiving, you empower yourself to get on with your life. And that is something you should know. If you have a moment, and I know you have a moment,

you can't go anywhere or do anything, so sure you have a moment, leave a rating and review of this podcast. It's easy to do on whatever platform you listen to. I'm Mike Carruthers. Thanks for listening today to Something You Should Know. Welcome to the small town of Chinook, where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper. In this new thriller, religion and crime collide when a gruesome murder rocks the isolated Montana community. Everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug-addicted teenager, but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced.

She suspects connections to a powerful religious group. Enter federal agent V.B. Loro, who has been investigating a local church for possible criminal activity. The pair form an unlikely partnership to catch the killer, unearthing secrets that leave Ruth torn between her duty to the law, her religious convictions,

and her very own family. But something more sinister than murder is afoot, and someone is watching Ruth. Chinook, starring Kelly Marie Tran and Sanaa Lathan. Listen to Chinook wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, this is Rob Benedict. And I am Richard Spate. We were both on a little show you might know called Supernatural.

It had a pretty good run, 15 seasons, 327 episodes. And though we have seen, of course, every episode many times, we figured, hey, now that we're wrapped, let's watch it all again. And we can't do that alone. So we're inviting the cast and crew that made the show along for the ride. We've got writers, producers, composers, directors, and we'll, of course, have some actors on as well, including some certain guys that played some certain pretty iconic

brothers. It was kind of a little bit of a left field choice in the best way possible. The note from Kripke was, he's great, we love him, but we're looking for like a really intelligent Duchovny type. With 15 seasons to explore, it's going to be the road trip of several lifetimes. So please join us and subscribe to Supernatural then and now.