Something You Should Know - When What You Said Isn’t What They Heard & The Real Way People Get Ahead

Starting point is 00:00:02 Today, on something you should know, it's a fact that dog owners live longer and healthier, but why? Then understanding the different communication styles and how what you said isn't always what people hear. Yeah, it's really that understanding of how you've been across and how other people experience you. We're all pretty clear on what we meant or what we intend, but we're not so clear on how that actually is communicated to other people. Also, why more and more people are becoming near-sighted, and it's not just because of screens, and some proven tactics to get ahead faster in your career. They're cheat codes. All of these cheat codes really point to how to play the game of office politics in a positive way,

Starting point is 00:00:48 in a way that's going to encourage and uplift others rather than playing it in the negative, slimy way. All this today on something you should know. Hey, it's Hillary Frank from The Longest Shortest Time, an award-winning podcast about parenthood and reproductive health. We talk about things like sex ed, birth control, pregnancy, bodily autonomy, and of course, kids of all ages. But you don't have to be a parent to listen. If you like surprising, funny, poignant stories about human relationships and, you know, periods, the longest shortest time is for you. Find us in any podcast app or at longest shortest time.com. Something you should know.

Starting point is 00:01:34 Fascinating intel, the world's top experts, and practical advice you can use in your life. Today, Something You Should Know with Mike Carruthers. Owning a dog is good for your health. You've probably heard that, but it's a little vague. So we're going to begin this episode of Something You Should Know by explaining exactly why a dog is good for your health. Hi, I'm Mike Carruthers. Welcome. So people who own dogs tend to live longer.

Starting point is 00:02:06 That is a fact. And researchers are getting more specific about why that is. A recent review of studies published in the journal Circulation found that dog owners had a significantly lower risk of dying, especially from heart-related causes. People recovering from a heart attack or stroke also tended to survive longer if they owned a dog. Researchers think part of the reason is obvious.

Starting point is 00:02:32 Dogs get people walking, moving, interacting with others, but there's more to it than just exercise. Studies show that simply interacting with a dog can lower stress hormones like cortisol while boosting oxytocin, the feel-good bonding hormone. Dog owners also tend to have lower blood pressure, less loneliness, and lower rates of depression and social isolation.

Starting point is 00:02:57 And here's something really fascinating. Kids who grow up around dogs appear less likely to develop allergies and asthma later in life. Scientists believe exposure to the microbes that dogs bring into the home may help train a child's immune system early on. In other words, your dog may not just be your best friend, it may also be one of the healthiest relationships you ever have.

Starting point is 00:03:23 And that is something, you should know. Think about how many arguments, awkward moments, and misunderstandings happen every day. Not because people are trying to be difficult, but because they are communicating in completely different ways. One person wants to talk everything out immediately, while another shuts down and needs space. Some people communicate with emotion, others with logic. Some avoid conflict at all costs while others come on strong and direct. And when those styles collide, relationships at work, home, and even with close friends, can quietly start to unravel.

Starting point is 00:04:09 The interesting thing is most of us assume the way we communicate is the normal way. It isn't. In fact, understanding your own communication style and recognizing the style of the person you're talking to maybe one of the most powerful relationship skills you can learn. Here to explain all this is Jason Van Ruler. He's a psychotherapist and speaker and author of the book, Discovering Your Communication Type, The Five Paths to Deeper Connections and Stronger Relationships. I, Jason, welcome to something you should know.

Starting point is 00:04:44 Hey, thank you so much for having me. I've been looking forward to this. Well, you know what's so interesting is I think we all know that different people communicate differently. There are different styles of communication. And yet we don't often take that into account in a conversation. We don't think about that. We're more interested in getting our point across.

Starting point is 00:05:06 Yeah, well, that's a great point. The thing is we don't often think about it like that. But you can think of a communication style or type much in the same way you'd think of someone's accent. So we've all got a different accent. And some of us can understand other people's accents easier than. others and some of us have different accents and others and so our communication type is a lot like our communication accent and that's important to understand because why well you know the thing about communication it's really interesting there was a researcher that examined self-awareness and so she

Starting point is 00:05:41 went to a room full of people and she said how self-aware do you think you are and of course most of us would want to say well I'm very self-aware you know and so they they said yep I'm in the self-aware camp. And so 95% of people believe they were self-aware. And the researcher then gave them an assessment to see how self-aware they really were. And it was surprising to most, but about 10 to 15% of people would have qualified as actually being self-aware. And so if there's 95% of us thinking that we are, and 10 to 15% actually are, there's a big gap. And while you and I, I'm sure, are in the 10 to 15% camp of Of course, absolutely. I'm certain of that.

Starting point is 00:06:24 What's true is a lot of people aren't. And where communication tends to break down is when we don't have great awareness about how what we're saying comes across to the people we're saying it too. Wow. Well, yeah. I mean, I have a sense of that, but, you know, it's not something I ever really think about because it's really more of, you know, I communicate the way I do. That's how I do.

Starting point is 00:06:46 And I think I'm being pretty clear. that's why I'm saying it the way I'm saying it, and now it's up to you to hear what I say and do something with it. But when you say only 10% of people are self-aware, what does it mean to be self-aware? Yeah, it's really that understanding of how you come across and how other people experience you. We're all pretty clear on what we meant or what we intend,

Starting point is 00:07:11 but we're not so clear on how that actually is communicated to other people. And we miss the mark more than we hit it? Yeah, unfortunately. I mean, we all wish that we just hit it every time. But what's true is that because people are wired differently than us, sometimes that lack of awareness means that we just automatically miss the other person because we're listening for two different things. So give me an actual example using two of the types that you've identified. One would be a harbor. And a harbor communicates for reasons of connecting on feeling. Harbour wants to talk about their feelings. They want to talk about your feelings. They want to have a lot of space for that deep conversation. Well, then there's another one called a thinker. And a thinker is all about internal processing and communicating about what's factual, what's accurate, and what's precise. And so if you are a harbor and you're talking about feelings to a thinker who's talking about precision and facts, we're going to miss each other. Right? Because the harbor is, likely to enter that conversation and say, hey, you know, here's how I feel, Mike. Here's what's going on in my life. I feel this. I feel that. Meanwhile, the thinker is going, where are the facts? Where,

Starting point is 00:08:31 where is the data to support what you're saying? And so because we speak with those different types, we're missing each other, even though that's not the point. Okay. All right, which brings up a lot of questions, but I guess first, let's go through all of the types and what they are and what that means. Yeah, so the types follow an acronym, which is paths, P-A-T-H-S. And the point of the paths is just to remind us we all want to get to the same place, which is connection. We just take different paths to get there. And so each of the types, there's no good or bad one to have.

Starting point is 00:09:05 They're just all strengths and opportunities. So the first one is the peacemaker. And the peacemaker, their why behind communication is they want harmony and they want peace. And so they are the people when they're talking with you who, we're going to be really focused on, how are you reacting? How is it sounding? Can we put a nice bow on this conversation when we're done? The A or the advocate is a person who communicates for reasons of fairness, what's fair, what's right, what's just. And so they're always going to be the person who says something. If you've ever been in a room and gone, who's going to say the

Starting point is 00:09:41 thing that needs to be said? It's going to be the advocate. They have to say it. The thinker, like we talked about, is that internal processor who relies on precision and facts. The harbor is the feelings-oriented person who wants to go deep, and the S is the spark, and the spark is that magnetic, energetic person with charisma who wants to entertain a room, but sometimes struggles to slow down. So when I hear you describe those different types, I can hear myself in several of them, depending on what the conversation is about and who the conversation is with. Yeah, absolutely.

Starting point is 00:10:21 So the thing is that we all can speak each one, but we tend to have a primary. And that primary is often something we developed early on in life as a response to our upbringing. And what I mean by that is we usually develop that because our family needs that. So for instance, if you grew up with a lot of chaos and your family and conversation, was unpredictable or unstable, you might have become a peacemaker. Because what you thought, you know, as a child subconsciously is, you know, someone needs to keep the peace here. It might as well be me.

Starting point is 00:10:54 Or if you grew up in the Midwest like I did in a family full of thinkers, someone needed to talk about feelings. And so guess who got elected to that position, Mike? It was me. And so we developed these communication types early on. They act as a primary. and then over time, with practice, we can develop in the other types. And so is the goal to change your type or to incorporate the other types or just be aware of the way you do it and how it might land with someone else?

Starting point is 00:11:28 Yeah, perfect. It's the last thing you said. Really, the goal is to know ourselves. That's the first step. But then to know other people and to know how to communicate with them better. I have this belief that a lot of the loneliness epidemic and the things that we're really struggling with is this inability to communicate effectively and develop relationships. And so if we can understand what actually lands with someone else, we can have deeper, more meaningful relationships, which actually changes the world. Well, doesn't it make you wonder why the loneliness epidemic, as you put it,

Starting point is 00:12:03 is more acute now? Like, what changed? why are people having more trouble connecting than before? We used to be able to do it better. Yeah, it seems like it. And I think the research would indicate that I think what it is when I talk to people is that we're just out of practice. You know, one of my favorite things to ask when I'm working with a group is

Starting point is 00:12:25 when is the last time you used your phone to call someone? And that's a funny question because there are definitely periods in time where someone would have said every day I'm calling many people. I've made several calls today. But increasingly, we are not making calls. We are not talking to people. When we're out and about, we're not having conversations. And so the less we practice it, the harder it becomes to start.

Starting point is 00:12:49 Do you think, as people hear you describe the five communication types, they can identify themselves in there. Oh, yeah, that one is me? That's been my experience. Yeah, most people when they're hearing that, they're doing one and two things. They're saying, yep, that's me. or they're saying, yep, that's them. But most of us can kind of put together where we're at in the list

Starting point is 00:13:11 or someone else can identify. I think my partner is more of a thinker or an advocate or whatever that thing is. But it's simple enough that a lot of times we'll hear ourselves and others in it. I want to ask you in just a moment here, which of these types do better or worse with which other types? My guest is Jason Van Ruler. He's a psychotherapist and author of the book. discovering your communication type. So Jason, do some of these five communication types go better and

Starting point is 00:13:42 communicate better with other of the five types, or it just depends? Well, I'm going to go with it depends. You know, some of them are going to have a more difficult time than others. So for example, someone who is an advocate and someone who's a peacemaker, they're going to have some challenges. And the reason for that is that a peacemaker is really out to have people. They're out to have harmony. But an advocate is out to say what's right and what's fair and what's just. And so without awareness, what's going to happen is the advocate's going to be doing the advocate thing. And the peacemaker is going to be overwhelmed and probably feeling pretty much activated and not really sure what to do with what the advocate is saying.

Starting point is 00:14:26 All right. But given the status of what you just said, okay, you've got this type and this type and they're not communicating. what's the goal then to change your style? Because just being aware, I can be aware that this conversation is going nowhere, but that doesn't really help. Yeah, the awareness part isn't hard for most people in terms of they can be aware if it's working or not, right? Most of us don't struggle with that. What we struggle with is how to actually get it back on track.

Starting point is 00:14:56 And so, for instance, if, you know, I'm a harbor and I'm speaking to a thinker, what I know about that conversation is I'm going to have a better conversation if I can speak to the facts, to precision, to data first, and then talk about how I feel about it. And so the goal really isn't to change to the other persons, but to acknowledge and to experience their type so that you can, you can in turn share yours. And does it help to admit which one you are in the conversation? I hear what you're saying, but I'm more of a thinker. here's what would help me. Yeah, I think it can help us to learn to better connect, and especially in meaningful relationships we have when we know how the other person's wired and kind of hearing what

Starting point is 00:15:43 we're saying and what they're communicating about, it helps us to understand why we're not always connecting. Because what I've seen many, many times as therapist, is that usually when we're not connecting, we make up a story about why. And I don't know about you, but a lot of times when we're not connecting with someone, the story we make up is not a positive one, right? The story is not, well, I bet they're trying really hard and they want to be my friend or they're trying hard and they want to connect. The story is usually about the other person not doing something or needing to do something better.

Starting point is 00:16:14 And so when we can better understand ourselves and others, it takes some of that negativity out and just gives us an opportunity to do it different. So talk about communication off ramps, what they are, what they do, explain that. Yeah, so we have the on ramps and the off ramps. ramps. And basically, those are things that we can do that really encourage good communication and conversation or discourage and point us away from it. And so some off ramps that we can fall into if we're not careful are things like defensiveness. So if someone asks us a question and we immediately become guarded, obviously that's not going to facilitate further conversation. Or if we're

Starting point is 00:16:54 distracted and distraction can really be about two things. We can be distracted in terms of having our old friend the phone like we just talked about. And if you've ever talked to somebody who's simultaneously looking at their phone, they're pretty distracted. Or sometimes we have conversations where we distract from the point of the conversation. So we're maybe talking about A, but the other person is talking about B. And so we want to stay focused. And then the last thing is to avoid dismissing what someone's sharing.

Starting point is 00:17:24 Sometimes we listen through the lens of, is it what I want to hear? Is it what I think? instead of what is the other person really trying to say and what do they need for me in this moment. And so when we can look at it through that lens, we have a much better opportunity to connect. Do you think that, well, you probably can because of the work you do, but that most of us in a conversation can fairly quickly identify if we try what the other communication style is of the other person? Yeah, that's been my experience.

Starting point is 00:17:57 I've done a lot of work with this, so I feel like I probably have an easier time than most. But lots of people who are aware of the structure and the different types find themselves going, oh, I bet that's what that person is. And knowing that, I'm going to speak to them a little bit more in terms that are going to resonate with them and we'll go from there. So I think it's simple enough that when you hear it, you go, I bet that's what they're saying. What about in relationships, in couples, for example, do you find, Is it fairly random or does it tend to be people were attracted to each other because they're the same style or they're completely different styles? Like, what do you see?

Starting point is 00:18:40 Yeah, I see a lot of different things. But a lot of what I see is that we are often attracted to someone who's a little bit different. So if I were the peacemaker, I might be attracted to the person who's willing to say the thing, the advocate, or the person who speaks on the facts or data as a thinker. or if I'm a harborer and I look at feelings, I might be attracted to that thinker who is going to offset what I'm saying. So I think we tend to pick people who have something we don't that we admire. And that's wonderful until we get into conflict. And then it starts to become a little bit frustrating. So take me through this because what I really want to understand is if you've identified your own style and you've identified the style

Starting point is 00:19:26 and the potential problem of discussing something with this other person and their style, what do you do? So we've got these two styles that don't necessarily go together. How do you bridge that in the conversation so that it does go, so that it works? That's a great question. And that's really the hope with this is that we use it to connect. So I'll give you an example. In my marriage, I've been married now about 20 years.

Starting point is 00:19:56 in the harbor. And so I am, you know, wanting to talk about my feelings and her feelings and all the feelings. And my sweet wife is a thinker. And so what she wants to talk about are the facts, the data, the statistics. And so there were times in her marriage where I would come home and I would get some brand new opportunity or some business thing that I'd be really, really excited about. And I'd tell her all my feelings. Okay. And somewhere in the middle of me talking about all my feelings and asking her about hers, she would undoubtedly ask a question about the facts or the data, right? So when is this opportunity? What did the logistics look like? How possible is it? And before knowing all of this, what I did quite often, which is I think something a lot of us do, is I made up that somehow she was

Starting point is 00:20:46 trying to divert the conversation or that somehow she really didn't want to connect with me. But what was true is she was connecting in her way and I was connecting in mine. And so we're both communicating with the same intention, which is to connect, but we're not. And so knowing this, now, if I were to have that conversation, I would just lead with the facts that I was aware of first and then talk about the feelings. And doing that has opened many doors to deeper conversations because she can go, okay, now I have that part answered or spoken to. Let's talk about your side. And so if we can have that awareness and we can take turns and be mindful of the other person, It just opens doors that weren't open before to deeper conversation and connection.

Starting point is 00:21:30 So is the strategy then to try to give the other person what they want first so that they're more open to hear what you want to say? Correct. Yep, that's the approach that I take is when we can do that, people see it as a step towards connection and you making an effort. And oftentimes they're much more open and willing to receive a different style. What do you find in trying to do what you're talking about? What are the hazards? What can and does go wrong? Yeah, I think something a lot of people miss is that it's really about how other people experience us. So a lot of times when there's a disconnection in a conversation, what we try to do initially is say, well, that's not what I meant.

Starting point is 00:22:15 And I think we've all done that. That's not what I meant. You know, there's lots of examples in my life where I've said something. It's not what I meant. And then what we try to do is explain how we got there. And the explanation part is usually what gets us in trouble because what it's actually doing is highlighting to the other person the thing that they didn't like in the first place. So if we're disconnected in your experience of what I said is different than what I met

Starting point is 00:22:39 and I explain it first, what often happens is we just further the conflict. And so something I think a lot of people miss is that the first step is to understand their experience, then explain, not explain, and then try to understand their experience. Because quite often, if we're willing to understand how someone experienced us, they don't even need the explanation. That's enough to get them to the next place. Can you give me an example of that? Yeah, if I were to say something to someone that I meant because it was just honest or it was

Starting point is 00:23:12 a thing that I wanted to share and I was trying to do the right thing or be positive, maybe it was some advice or some wisdom, but someone's, you know, but someone's, you know, said they were hurt by it. When they say they were hurt by it, if I said, well, okay, you're hurt by it, but let me tell you what I really meant. Let me explain. This is why I said you need to do that. This is why I said you need a new job as you've been complaining about your job and you've said this, this, this, and this, right? As I'm going through that, the other person is not thinking, I'm so glad they've explained. Now I'm not hurt. Right? The other person is not doing that. They're saying, this is exactly what hurt me in the first place, or this is exactly what it

Starting point is 00:23:50 me. And so the better approach is to just say, what did you hear me saying? To which that person might say, I heard you telling me that I'm doing the wrong thing and I need to make some changes and I'm not measuring up. To which you could then just acknowledge and say, I totally hear that's your experience. That was not the goal for me. That's not what I was trying to do. But I get that that was your experience. Do you need me to explain what I meant? And a lot of times, if you can just honor the person's experience, they don't even need the explanation. They just just go, ah, you know what, it's okay. As long as you kind of got what I took away, and it's not what you meant, that's good enough.

Starting point is 00:24:26 Well, from listening to you and hearing about the importance of these communication types, there's a real problem when people have different communication types, and they're trying to have this conversation on a text, because there's so much you can't tell about what somebody means, so you have to fill in the blanks and make up what you think they're in. intent means or what these words mean. Well, and we usually make up something that's consistent with our communication type. Right, right, right.

Starting point is 00:24:58 And so we say, well, this is what that would mean to me if I said it. And so we have a disconnect then if we're different. Well, from hearing you talk, it seems there are so many ways that conversations can go sideways because of these different communication types. It's so important to understand what they are, which one you are, and which one the person you're talking to is. I've been speaking with Jason Van Ruler. He is a psychotherapist and author of the book,

Starting point is 00:25:28 Discover Your Communication Type, The Five Paths to Deeper Connections and Stronger Relationships. And there's a link to that book at Amazon in the show notes. And Jason, thanks for coming on. Yes, thank you so much. This was fantastic. A lot of us got the message growing up that if you work hard, do great work, be a team player, eventually you get noticed and rewarded.

Starting point is 00:25:56 But if you've spent any time in the working world, you know it doesn't always work that way. Sometimes the person getting promoted isn't the smartest or the hardest working. They just seem to understand something everyone else missed. There are unwritten rules at work, invisible dynamics about perception, office politics, negotiating and knowing how to position yourself so other people see your value.

Starting point is 00:26:24 And if you don't know those rules, it can feel like you're playing a game where everyone else got the instruction manual except you. Here to pull back the curtain on how careers really work is Courtney Johnson. She's a personal brand educator, entrepreneur, and she's the creator of a viral series on TikTok called Problematic Career Cheat Codes. and she is also author of a book called Career Cheat Codes, the Unspoken, Unconventional and Unfiltered Rules of Career Success. Hi, Courtney, welcome to something you should know.

Starting point is 00:26:59 Hello, I'm so happy to be here. So if life was fair, the people who worked the hardest, did their best, were the most loyal, always showed up, that those would be the people who got ahead, who made more money, who got promotions. And I think that a lot of people still believe that that's how it works. Yeah, I mean, a lot of people are told that if they put their head down and work hard, everything will work out for them. They'll get everything they want. They'll accomplish their dream.

Starting point is 00:27:29 And that's just not true. There's a whole world of politics happening behind the scenes and career. You know, we don't live in a meritocracy. It's not whoever is the best and has the best ideas gets the opportunities. It's really whoever is the most visible gets the opportunities. And that's a difficult thing to hear. So I think it really is just we don't have the correct information. We have a lot of niceties about what we think should be the right information

Starting point is 00:27:56 without actually addressing it head on. So when you say it's the most visible person, what does that mean to be visible? Because I think people worry that, well, I don't want to brag and I don't want to be a show off, but I don't want to be hidden either. But I don't know where that line is. Yeah. So let's say your boss is looking for who to give the next promotion to. They're going to pick the person who is reliable. They know about their work. They know about the results that they're getting. They hear from the clients that they're awesome, right? They're going to pick that person that's visible. Even if you're a better worker, but you're quiet, you're not sharing your wins. You're not sharing what you're learning. You probably won't be up for that promotion. So it's not necessarily your skill. it's what your, what that decision maker, the place that their brain is going first.

Starting point is 00:28:49 And in the same way that we can own shares of a company, we can own shares of people's consciousness. So Mike, I'm going to ask you a question and I want you to tell me the first thing that comes to your mind, okay? Uh-huh. Name a chef. Wolfgang Puck. Great. So Wolfgang Puck owns a share of your consciousness filed under chef.

Starting point is 00:29:10 So statistically, you are more. more likely to go to a Wolfgang Puck restaurant, buy a Wolfgang Puck book, consume Wolfgang Puck media, recommend Wolfgang Puck as a chef to others. And your boss, your organization, hiring managers, it's the same. The person that is top of mind, that owns that top of mind awareness, is the person that gets the opportunities. This is not a made up thing. This is not maybe. This is something that we can prove psychologically with statistical, significant. that you will be chosen if you have top of mind awareness in somebody's consciousness. So, yes, I know it can feel weird.

Starting point is 00:29:52 We don't want to feel like we're bragging. We don't want to feel like it's all about me, me, me. But we do really need to make ourselves visible if we want those opportunities. And we do that by doing what? If we're not going to brag and boast, then what else do we do? Yeah, so I recommend building a personal brand. and there are two ways to do this. There is an internal personal brand.

Starting point is 00:30:16 So this is internal in your organization. It's how you show up on Slack. It's your email signature. It's making sure every time you get a nice message from a client, you're sending it to your boss. It's making sure every time you go to a conference, you're sending your wins, all the list of people you talk to,

Starting point is 00:30:33 you're sending what you learned, and you're being very visible. Anytime you hit a new goal, you're sharing it. So that's the internal personal brand. then we have your external or public personal brand. This is sharing on LinkedIn, maybe sharing on social media, writing blogs, speaking, getting visible to your wider industry.

Starting point is 00:30:56 And so when I send my boss, my note that I got from a client, how do I do it in a way that doesn't say, hey, look how wonderful I am? Or do I say, or is that okay? You can always position it in a way that celebrates everybody. You can say, hey, this is, you know, the client is really loving the product, right? You're kind of putting that to celebrate the product team. Hey, the client really loved the onboarding process.

Starting point is 00:31:24 Maybe that shouts out the person that made the onboarding process. The client is really loving the new system, right? Like, you don't have to make it all about yourself, but you do want to make sure that they know that you're being associated with, those wins. The thing is, it's helpful for your boss, right? Like, Mike, you, you run a podcast. I'm sure there's people that support on this podcast. It's really helpful if they can tell you, you know, I made these thumbnail changes and our YouTube videos went from 5,000 to 10,000 views. It would be so helpful for you to know that, right, Mike? Sure, sure. Yeah, because you're like, oh, great, awesome. That's great to know. But you're

Starting point is 00:32:08 probably not in the weeds every single day trying to figure out other people's wins. So it's actually really, really helpful to tell your boss because now they can see what's working, what's not working, what to focus on, what's exciting about what you're doing. So you can really reframe it as I'm actually doing a service to everybody around me because I'm sharing wins. I'm celebrating not just myself, but everybody around me. And I'm making it helpful for people around me to know our wins rather than them having to go look for them themselves, which they probably won't do. I imagine this is easier for some people than others, that people who tend to be quiet and

Starting point is 00:32:47 keep their head down and they're more introverted, this is a little uncomfortable to do. Definitely. It can be definitely uncomfortable for the introverts. And if you're an introvert, you may look at somebody that does this with ease and say, oh, well, their personality is confident. That's just who they are. And that might not be. true. Confidence is a skill. It is a skill. It is a muscle that you can grow. And it's a big mistake to think, oh, that person's just born that way. All of these things are practices. You don't have to become a completely new person overnight. You can slowly start to implement these changes, slowly, slowly, build the muscle and get more comfortable being visible.

Starting point is 00:33:34 Yeah, I would imagine if you haven't been sending your boss things and letting him know about you for five years and all of a sudden you start doing it, he's going to wonder, what's going on here? What's this all about? Yeah, see, that's a big resistance I hear from a lot of people. Well, what if my boss thinks it's weird? And I ask them, so what?

Starting point is 00:33:56 What if they think it's weird? What's going to happen? What's going to, is your boss going to say you're weird? You're fired? Probably not. Yeah, a lot of times we overblow the results. Or we overblow the fears, right? Oh my God, my boss is going to think it's so weird and then I'm probably going to lose my job and then I'm going to be homeless and then I'm going to starve and then I'm going to die. Right? Like, is that really going to happen? No. What I recommend is sharing with them your goal. Hey boss, it's my goal to get this promotion in the next six months. So I would love to share more with you what I'm working on

Starting point is 00:34:32 and share more with you all of the hard work I'm putting in and the results I'm getting in order to get closer to that promotion. Your boss is probably going to say, great, awesome, because your boss has a boss and your boss can now take those wins to their boss, and they're going to look really good. What about, I mean, it's one thing to do this to promote yourself, but you've also, there's other players in the game and, you know, there's the whole office politics thing of, you know, but the boss really likes that person more than they like me and the people that are running interference and trying to put you down. And I mean, there's a lot going on that you've got to navigate. Your boss likes the person that helps bring them closer to

Starting point is 00:35:14 their goals. Identify what your boss wants. Do they want a promotion? Do they want to run a marathon? on? Do they want to get some time back to spend time with their kids? Figure out what your boss's goal is and help them get to that goal. That is the best way to help them like you and enjoy you and support you. And this is really a cheat code for anybody. If you want to get in somebody's good graces, ask them their goal or their dream and do everything you can to help them get there. So help me get a sense of how much time am I spending on this?

Starting point is 00:35:49 Is this just, you know, five minutes a week? Or is this hours of my time focused on how to get ahead, how to get ahead? It definitely does not have to be hours and hours a week. What I would recommend internally is every other week to share one thing that you're celebrating. So this could be one win, one conversation with the client, one obstacle that you overcame, and share it in your internal communication system. So that might be your company Slack or company email or all hands meeting. How long does it take to share a win every other week?

Starting point is 00:36:28 Maybe that totals 10 minutes a month, very, very small amount of time. And then as far as our external personal brand, so this is choosing one platform, posting one time for an entire year, sorry, posting one time per month for an entire year. So we're choosing one platform, posting one time per month for an entire year, how long do it take to make a post on LinkedIn, right? Maybe 20 minutes. We're doing that 12 times over an entire year. That's taking less than a couple of hours.

Starting point is 00:36:58 What about the reactions of other people? Is there a concern that, hey, you're making us look bad. You're out there, you know, with a big spotlight on you, and that's making the rest of us not look so good and knock it off. And are we worried about that? You know, that definitely can happen. It's rare. I've helped thousands and thousands of people build their personal brands, and I've had maybe

Starting point is 00:37:21 five or ten people come across negative reactions from their organization. I think the trick is to position it as something that can benefit the organization. Hey, guys, I'm going to start posting on LinkedIn, and I think it could really help us get new customers. I'm going to start posting on LinkedIn, and I think it could really help us recruit better engineers to our product team. You know, if you position it in a way that it's going to kind of going back to helping the company's goals and the boss's goals, usually it works well. You can also position it in a way of wanting to support others.

Starting point is 00:37:55 I might say, hey guys, I'm going to start posting on LinkedIn because I really want to inspire young women to build personal brands. If my boss comes back and says, no, that's bad. We don't want to inspire young women. They're probably not going to do that. So again, it is a fear a lot of people have. Very few people actually experience negative consequences from their job from posting publicly. Well, talk about the office politics of all of this. And office politics in general.

Starting point is 00:38:27 There's, you know, there's clicks in a office and there's, you know, people who don't want this person to do so well. And there are people who hate the boss. And you've got to navigate all that. Yeah. And you know, it can seem frustrating. You might be like, I just don't want to play the game of office politics. I want to go in and put my head down, finish my work, and leave. And that's fine.

Starting point is 00:38:50 You just get to realize that that might not get you where you want to go. If your goal is to stay in your current role and do what you're doing, amazing. You definitely can put your head down. But if your goal is to advance, you want to make sure that you have a solid foundation on the social aspect of what you're doing in this social aspect of your career. It all goes back to helping other people accomplish their goals. So as long as you're doing that, as long as you're finding out what the goals are of people around you,

Starting point is 00:39:21 your boss and the company and tracking towards that, people are going to like you. You're going to be a favorite in the office. What about the whole office politics thing, you know, where people are taking sides, they're gossiping, they're talking behind people's backs about, you know, that seems like that could really get in the way. Yeah, you definitely don't want to get in the arguing and the fighting of it all.

Starting point is 00:39:46 You want to be able to lift people up and stay out of it. So one of the cheat codes that's in the book is if somebody is gossiping to you, oh, so-and-so did this, they said this, this drama happened. And you want to make sure you're still getting social capital, but you don't want to participate in the drama. Share some public drama. For example, if someone's, Somebody says, did you see what Chris and HR did yesterday?

Starting point is 00:40:12 That's crazy. You might say, you might say, no, but did you hear what Taylor Swift just did? That's crazy, right? Give them some sort of drama or gossip that is publicly available. That's about the public world or pop culture. That way you're keeping it light, but you're still getting some social capital. I like that idea. Yeah, that's, because that's very, it's very hard to resist that office gossip, depending on how it's portrayed, because you want to be, you don't want to be thought of as, oh, she thinks or he thinks they're too cool to be part of our little group here.

Starting point is 00:40:53 And then, and then they, they could sabotage you or do whatever. But that, that's a great idea to just divert the conversation into another direction without dismissing it. Exactly. Another way to play the office politics game is to remember people's birthdays and to remember their kids and their pets names and genuinely be interested in them and ask about them. ask about their kids, their pets, and their personal goals, people are really going to like you. So all of these cheat codes really point to how to play the game of office politics in a positive way, in a way that's going to encourage and uplift others rather than playing it in the negative, slimy way. So one topic that always comes up in these conversations about getting ahead and moving up in your career is money and getting how much money you want and getting a raise and all of that. What's your philosophy there?

Starting point is 00:41:55 If you want to get a raise or to get paid more, you need to learn to qualify the impact that you're having on the company. So that might be, I closed this many deals this year and, you know, therefore I should get a 20% raise. It could be I, so you can make the company money. That's, I close this many deals. You could also save. the company money. You know, our time to hire used to be six months. It would take six months to fill a rule. With my new process, it only takes one month to fill that role. So we are saving all, we're saving five months of recruiting time. We're saving five months of recruiting dollars. Therefore, I save the company, you know, $300,000. It makes so much sense for me to get a $10,000 raise. So you need to

Starting point is 00:42:45 figure out either how you make the company money or save the company money. If you can't figure out either of those, you probably shouldn't have a job. You probably shouldn't work there. The company has you there because you either save the money or make the money. There are very few roles where they will justify hiring you if you're not contributing to the bottom line. You probably wouldn't work there in the first place. One thing that I, in fact, I know someone that just went through this where they got a job and there was such a toxic environment in the workplace that she left. I mean, she couldn't stand it. It was really horrible.

Starting point is 00:43:24 And there are lots of workplaces with toxic environments, particularly toxic to newcomers or, you know, where we've got our little group here and you're not welcome or whatever it is. But what do you do about that other than leave? Honestly, leave. Like, that is the answer to leave. you know, at that point, if the workplace is so toxic, that is going to cost you your mental health, that is going to cost you your sanity. It's usually just not worth it to work at a place like that.

Starting point is 00:43:56 You know, it's not great to have to leave a company so soon, but again, if it's going to affect you mentally, emotionally, in a really negative way, it's probably best to not be there. And you get to give yourself permission to say, all right, red flag, this isn't for me. And the way to avoid this is anytime you're applying for a job, go on LinkedIn, message five people from the company that work there, and ask them their experience. Oftentimes, they're going to say, this is great, we would love to have you, you know, my experience is awesome.

Starting point is 00:44:29 Sometimes, and this has happened to me quite a few times, they say, this place is horrible, it's toxic, run as fast as you can. Yeah, well, that's pretty clear. I wouldn't doubt that if somebody's willing to say that. I would say I would take them at their word. Exactly. And, you know, we're so easy to just say yes to a role because it's good money or we're excited about it. We got to vet.

Starting point is 00:44:56 We really need to vet the places we're working at because they're not just interviewing us. We are also interviewing them. If you're committed to a job, you're probably going to be there for a year, two years, three years. And you want to make sure that it's a healthy place to work at before you commit years of your life. Well, I would imagine anybody with a job got something out of what you've been saying for the last 20 minutes. I've been talking to Courtney Johnson. The name of her book is Career Cheat Codes, the Unspoken, Unconventional and Unfiltered Rules of Career Success. There's a link to her book in the show notes. And Courtney, thanks. You're a good interview.

Starting point is 00:45:39 Well, thank you. Thank you. You're such a great interviewer, and I love how crispy your audio is. How crispy my audio is? Yeah, it's so crispy. It's so clear, you know? Thank you so much for your time. Best of luck with the book. Awesome. Thank you, Mike. Have a great rest of your day. For years, parents were told that too much reading or staring at screens would ruin kids' eyesight. And while screens do appear to play a role, researchers now say the bigger issue may actually be what kids aren't doing, which is going outside. Myopia, or nearsightedness, is exploding worldwide. In some parts of Asia, up to 80 to 90% of teens are now near-sighted,

Starting point is 00:46:29 and rates are climbing rapidly in Europe and the U.S. Researchers are calling it a global public health problem, because severe myopia dramatically increases the risk of, of glaucoma, cataracts, retinal detachment, and even blindness later in life. A huge 2025 analysis of more than 335,000 children found that every additional hour of daily screen time was associated with a 21% higher risk of myopia. But researchers say screens may not be the whole story.

Starting point is 00:47:05 The strongest protective factor appears to be outdoor light. kids who spend more time outside, especially around two hours a day, are significantly less likely to become near-sighted. Why? Well, scientists believe bright outdoor light triggers the release of dopamine in the eye, which helps regulate healthy eye growth. Indoors, even well-lit rooms, are nowhere near as bright as natural daylight. So the solution may not simply be less screen time, it may be more sunshine time. And that is something you should know.

Starting point is 00:47:42 You've probably heard me say many, many times at the end of episodes to please share this podcast with someone you know, and lots of people do. But if you haven't, if you're one of those people who said, yeah, I'm sure someday, make it today. Share this podcast, tell one of your friends, use the share button on the app you're using, and help us grow our audience. It would be greatly appreciated. I'm Mike Carruthers. Thanks for listening today to Something You Should Know.

Starting point is 00:48:09 Hey, it's Hilary Frank from The Longest Shortest Time, an award-winning podcast about parenthood and reproductive health. There is so much going on right now in the world of reproductive health, and we're covering it all. Birth control, pregnancy, gender, bodily autonomy, menopause, consent, sperm. So many stories about sperm. And, of course, the joys and absurdities of raising kids of all ages. If you're new to the show, check out an episode called The Staircase. It's a personal story of mine about trying to get my kids school to teach sex ed. Spoiler, I get it to happen, but not at all in the way that I wanted.

Starting point is 00:48:48 We also talk to plenty of non-parents, so you don't have to be a parent to listen. If you like surprising, funny, poignant stories about human relationships and, you know, periods, the longest shortest time is for you. Find us in any podcast app or at longest shortest time.com.

Something You Should Know - When What You Said Isn’t What They Heard & The Real Way People Get Ahead

There aren't comments yet for this episode. Click on any sentence in the transcript to leave a comment.