Something You Should Know - Why Complainers Complain and How to Stop Them & Using Games to Accomplish Your Goals

Episode Date: March 1, 2018

Why is Stephen Hawking still alive? Most people who are diagnosed with ALS die within 5 years. Stephen Hawking was diagnosed in his 20’s and today he is in his 70’s. We begin this episode by looking at his amazing longevity. (http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/stephen-hawking-als/) Do you know a complainer? It’s a trick question because you probably know a lot more than one. In fact, you might be a complainer without realizing it. Cianna Stewart has studied the subject of complaining in great detail and even wrote a book on it called, No Complaints: How to Stop Sabotaging Your Own Joy (http://amzn.to/2CNYU1M). Listen as she reveals why some people complain about every little thing and strategies to stop yourself from complaining and to stop complainers from complaining. Look at any print or web ad and you will likely see the images on the left and the text on the right. There’s a reason for that – it is one of the techniques advertisers use. I’ll discuss several more you should be aware of. https://prezi.com/if57qeh9nw7a/key-to-advertisement/ Have you heard of the word “gamification”? You do it with your kids when you make cleaning their room a game instead of a chore. Fitbit is a good example of gamification. They make a game out of fitness. Other businesses do it as well – and you probably also do it in your life. Dave Eng is an expert on gamification. He is an adjunct professor at St. Thomas Aquinas College and he joins me to discuss how gamification works, why it’s go effective and what some of the concerns are. Dave’s website is www.Davengdesign.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Today on Something You Should Know, Stephen Hawking, the famous scientist, has ALS. Have you ever wondered why he's still alive more than 50 years after his diagnosis? We'll discuss that. Plus, no one likes a complainer. But there sure are a lot of them. I think a lot of people do feel that they're saying things the way that it is. That my life just sucks or this is simply bad. And I think that most people are pretty unconscious of the fact that they are complaining. Then you'll discover some interesting tricks advertisers use to get you to buy. And have you ever heard of gamification?

So gamification is the application of game elements and non-game settings. So Fitbit is a huge application of gamification. They track your steps, they compare your steps and your activity against other people in your social networks. All this today on Something You Should Know. As a listener to Something You Should Know, I can only assume that you are someone who likes to learn about new and interesting things and bring more knowledge to work for you in your everyday life. I mean, that's kind of what Something You Should Know was all about. And so I want to invite you to listen to another podcast called TED Talks Daily. Now, you know about TED Talks, right?

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I'm pretty sure you're going to like TED Talks Daily. And you get TED Talks Daily wherever you get your podcasts. Something you should know. Fascinating intel. The world's top experts. And practical advice you can use in your life. Today, Something You Should Know with Mike Carruthers. Hi, welcome. If you're a regular listener to this podcast, you know that we begin and end every episode with a little story about something that I think you will find interesting or useful or something you can talk to other

people about. And what I started doing in the last episode and will continue to do going forward is in the show notes, I will put the source for that information because I don't just make it up. There's always a source. I find it somewhere. And people have asked in the past, you know, where did you get that thing about that thing? And I write back and explain. And so now I'm just putting it in the show notes. And the first story today is about Stephen Hawking. You know, I've always been a fan of his. I like the movie, The Theory of Everything, which certainly brought him a lot of notoriety. But one of the things that has always puzzled me about Professor Hawking is that he's still alive,

despite having ALS or Lou Gehrig's disease. Most people only live a few years after being diagnosed. However, Stephen Hawking was diagnosed when he was 21, and he's now in his 70s. So how can that be? Well, it turns out that about 5% of ALS patients do live 20 years or more after diagnosis, and he is a part of that small group. In addition, there are variations of the disease, and some variations seem to progress more slowly. Also, most people are diagnosed with ALS between the ages of 50 and 70. When people like Hawking are diagnosed at a younger age, they have a better chance of surviving longer. However, many of those long-term survivors have ventilators breathed for them. Hawking does

not. He breathes on his own. One ALS expert was asked if Stephen Hawking's incredibly sharp mind and positive outlook could account for his remarkable longevity, and that expert said, probably not. Stephen Hawking himself credits his longevity in large part due to the excellent medical care he receives. He does have around-the-clock care by a team of medical professionals. And that is something you should know. I was watching an episode of The Bates Motel on Netflix the other day, and Norma Bates was talking to her son, Norman Bates, and she said something to the effect of,

we live in a world filled with complainers. And it caught my ear because I thought, you know, she's right. I mean, if you pay attention to what the people around you say during a day, a lot of it is complaining. I think we don't realize how much we complain, but I think it's a safe bet that all this complaining isn't doing anybody any good. Because by definition, complaining is talking about a problem without actually doing anything to fix it. Which is pretty pointless when you think about it. Sianna Stewart is a documentary filmmaker and she's a self-described complainer who decided to do something about her own complaining

and she really spent 10 years getting to the bottom of this whole topic. And she's written a book called No Complaints, How to Stop Sabotaging Your Own Joy. Isiana, welcome. Thanks, Mike. I'm glad to be here. So tell me how you got on this journey of stamping out complaining. Well, it started with 10 years ago. I basically got sick of my own complaining. I noticed that my life was going really, really well, but I actually hadn't noticed because I kept complaining mostly about a relationship that I had had that was had a

disastrous breakup several months before the moment when I noticed my own complaining. And I realized I kept complaining about that relationship, which got in the way of me seeing that my friends were very supportive, that where I was living was great, that my job was great. And I decided to stop putting all of my energy into that past obsession and refocus myself on what was going on right here and now. But when I decided to stop complaining, I noticed that it was actually very, very difficult. And I kind of had to keep quiet instead of saying anything because the thing that immediately came to mind all the time was a complaint. And then when I was being quiet, I noticed that a lot of other people complained, pretty

much everyone, and that people were complaining about complainers. And that's what really caught my interest, that it seemed that so many people were doing something that pretty much everyone hated. And I got really curious about why. Well, I've certainly noticed that there is a lot of complaining in the world, and then there is a lot of people who complain about the complainers and their complaining. Do we have a sense of how many people would fall in the category of chronic complainers? That's a very hard thing to give a number to, partially because complaining hasn't formally been studied in any way. What I have noticed is that there are a lot of people in the world who are chronic complainers, habitual complainers, especially, you know, I'm an American, and here we have a culture of complaining.

It's so unconscious that people don't know that they are complainers, and other people are talking about them, essentially behind their backs or gossiping about them, and they're unaware of why they're getting ostracized or people, you know, it's hard to get close to them. Do you think that complainers, chronic complainers, know that they're a member of that group? Or do chronic complainers tend to be people who just think that they're just commenting on life, that that's the way they see the world in very negative terms. I think a lot of people do feel that it's just they're saying things the way that it is, that my

life just sucks or this is simply bad, and I think that most people are pretty unconscious of the fact that they are complaining. When they say things they just say, that's just the way it is, that's just how I am. Why do you suppose, if you have a sense of this, how this starts? Does it start in childhood? Is it the result of just living in a negative environment

where you just start to see the world negatively? Does it serve a purpose? Do some people think, well, you know, if I complain, I'm being a critical thinker, and that makes me look smart. I mean, where does it come from? You're touching on several points that I think are actually where this comes from. One of them, so a lot of the work that I was doing is trying to extrapolate from other scientific studies. And so some of the work is about explanatory style, which is how you say the world is treating you and whether or not you're basically expressing things in an optimistic or

a negative way. And do you think that the world is likely to be nice to you or horrible to you? And that actually really comes from your family of origin, wherever you were raised, you learn that way of explaining how the world treats you from the people that raised you. But there's also something else, which is that we are really used to using complaints as small talk and as a way of bonding. And so even however you explain things to yourself, a lot of people, you know, you go out for drinks and complain about your job or about, you know, politics or about your family or whatever. And that's sort of just normalized. And I think that we just learn over time that that's how you interact. You show up at a party and as you're taking off your coat, you complain about the

parking or traffic or whatever. And so I think that we have to actually break social norms in order to be able to stop complaining. Do you think that the typical complainer would agree if I said to them, you know, you're a real complainer? Or would they take offense and say, no, I'm not? I think most people would take offense at being told that they were a complainer. But there's also a lot of people who start to recognize that they are negative. I find that, especially if you were in a relationship that was struggling, or if you got some, you know, now we're in the world of 360 feedback at work, you start to learn that people see you as being negative. And I think that the common way of referring to being negative

is just saying that you're a complainer. So I think directly calling somebody out, they would get offended. But more and more people are recognizing themselves as complainers, especially once you start to get into some specific examples, like somebody who says all the time, oh, I'm so cold, but they do nothing about it, then that's... It's pretty common. We all know those people.

Oh, it's so cold in here. Every day it's cold. Well, put on a sweater. Try that. You know, do something about it. And that's the thing, right? It's really complaining is, as you were saying earlier, it's really just talking about the problem with nothing about the solution. That's exactly right.

And that's what gets so frustrating and what's exhausting to the people from complaining to problem solving, to being more active participants in their lives and to having a greater skill set as well as attitude towards knowing that they can tackle the things that are bothering them. say complainers don't recognize themselves as complainers, how are you ever going to get them to pay attention when they don't even think they are the target of what you're talking about? You have definitely struck on one of the problems about writing something for people who don't, aren't looking for a solution. Right, yeah, they're right. However, there's a lot of people who actually are looking for a solution, especially if you know that your relationship feels strained or your workplace is unhappy or the classroom is, you know, really resistant or those sorts of environments where people, there's some, at least maybe one person who recognizes that there's a problem. What I advocate is creating what I call a no-co-zone as a way of getting people to become more aware of their own patterns. So you can declare in any environment that you're in control of, like at your home, in your dinner table,

maybe you're inside your car that you're the driver, in your office if you're a manager or something like that. Say this particular time or this particular location is a no complaining zone. I also invite people to create no-co clubs. Say that, okay, let's all do this together. A really great example, there was a woman who has two kids that were in fourth grade and third grade. And I met her at a party. This was several years ago. And a year later, I saw her. It was a holiday party. So I saw her again at my friend's house. And she said, Oh, my God, I have to tell you what happened. I got inspired by your idea. I went home and I told my kids because I'm so tired of my kids complaining all the time. I told my kids that dinnertime and from when I got home and I told my kids, because I'm so tired of my kids complaining all the time.

I told my kids that dinner time and from when I got home from work, that this was going to be a no complaining zone. It was going to be no complaining time. And, you know, I was expecting them to fight back, but they got super excited and they said, oh, that sounds great. And it was in that moment that she realized that she was also a complainer and they heard her as a single mom on the phone with her friends complaining about how exhausted she was or her job or the kids or whatever. I kind of invite everybody to join in and say, hold themselves accountable. We're talking about complaining and complainers who complain and people who complain about complainers who complain. And my guest is Sianna Stewart.

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The Jordan Harbinger Show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, this is Rob Benedict. And I am Richard Spate. We were both on a little show you might know called Supernatural. It had a pretty good run, 15 seasons, 327 episodes. And though we have seen, of course, every episode many times, we figured, hey, now that we're wrapped, let's watch it all again. And we can't do that alone. So we're inviting the cast and crew that made the show along for the ride. We've got writers, producers, composers, directors, and we'll, of course, have some actors on as well, including some certain guys that played some certain pretty iconic brothers.

It was kind of a little bit of a left field choice in the best way possible. The note from Kripke was, he's great. We love him, but we're looking for like a really intelligent Duchovny type. With 15 seasons to explore, it's going to be the road trip of several lifetimes. So please join us and subscribe to Supernatural then and now. So Sienna, isn't it interesting how when you stop and think about the people in your life that you look up to and that you like to be around and who are fun to be with, they are not the... Nobody says, oh God, you know, complain some more. Tell me what else is wrong. Tell me how the rest of your life is all screwed up.

Everybody loves the guy who's Mr. Positive, Mr. Wonderful, Mr. Who's Interested in Me, and How's It Going? And yet, we don't see that. My complaining is driving people away. That's exactly right. And I feel that people also tend to, for whatever reason, we've associated being cynical with being smart and being positive with being naive. And so people feel like, oh, I can't sound too positive because then I'll just sound dumb. Really?

Yeah. Or there's like some kind of ways like, oh, it just feels so cheesy to be all happy all the time. And I'm like, well, and maybe I have an urban bias. I've been raised in cities. And so it's very much an urban trait. But this overall sense of like, oh, I don't want to be Pollyanna-ish.

I mean, when you say no complaining, do you mean like you think that the world is perfect or something, or like, you're not really noticing that things are actually crazy? And I'm like, no, actually that's exactly the opposite. I, I don't want to sit around and complain without fixing what's going wrong out there. Um, I think it's a eyes wide open approach to the world, but yeah, I, it really is true that if you, if you look at it, people think that, oh, there's an assumption that if you're super positive that you're probably either ignorant or naive. But those people who say that, who say that, well, you know, I don't want to be positive all the time because that doesn't make me look smart. Those people don't like being

around complainers. I mean, you can probably try to out-complain a complainer and they would go, oh my God, this person is just so negative. Well, you know, it's just a more intense flavor of you. It's just, it's like nobody likes this. It's not productive. It doesn't do anything. Except maybe, as you said earlier, it's kind of a way to bond. Oh God God, I'd rather the traffic. But that's not really, don't you think that those kind of complaints of, you know, oh, the weather's bad or the traffic's bad. I mean, those are kind of water off a duck's back kind of complaints.

It's not that that's so bothersome. It's the everything, you know, it's what's wrong now. Tell me what's wrong now. That's the kind of thing that wears on people. It's always what's wrong now. That's exactly right. And you're totally right that what we, the people that we want to hang out with are not the people that are saying what's wrong now all the time. And that it's, you start to pull away from people who are, I like that, what's wrong now? You know, you pull away from that. You don't even want to ask them like,

hey, how's it going? Because you just know that you're going to get a storm of complaints. That's like the last thing you would want to ask them because you know, here it comes. Well, let me tell you what's wrong now and what was wrong yesterday. And then it's like, so you don't even want to talk to them. There's two things going on in almost every complaint. One of them is you can pretty much rewrite a complaint as, wow, I wish reality wasn't happening. I like that. Yeah.

It's just like, oh, this is reality. I hate it. And, you know, oh, this is reality. I hate it. And, you know, well, it's reality. So that's where you are living right now. Just like that's just being aware of what is true. And the other thing is that most of the time people who are chronic complainers are basically in a monologue. They're just talking about themselves and what they care about and what's bothering them. And they don't really have much empathy or even awareness of the person that they're talking to.

They're, you know, as you say, no matter what is going on, no matter what, you know, time of day or anything, you ask them anything and it's going to come back with a, this is what's happening and it's going to come back with a this is what's happening it's terrible and after a while they get really isolated because you know who wants to give that person a call on the phone or who wants to invite that person along on a vacation or even over for dinner because they're just going to be complaining right and then that then they'll just complain about like nobody calls me everybody i don't understand but they're they're dumb but there's also the the complainer and maybe this is all part of the same thing but there's even complainers who in a positive situation you know we are we're all going to the baseball game and everybody's having a good time but that person always finds the one thing that didn't go right. And they don't enjoy the game because, or they don't enjoy the

moment because it's almost as if they're looking for something to go wrong. That's so true. One of the more weird things that I've noticed, you know, because of course I'm now attuned to this all the time, is a lot of people when they come back from a vacation, you know, it's a really amazing trip. They were gone for a week or two weeks in this incredible place. And you say, how was your vacation? And they say, oh, it was really great, except the hotel did this thing. And they spend a long time telling you a horrible part of the vacation, whether it was the way there, the way back, the hotel, the something, some singular incident. And then I'll say, how was the rest of

your vacation? They're like, oh, it was amazing. It was da-da-da. But if I didn't ask that follow-up question, they wouldn't have talked about it. And I think you're right. It's as if we just look for the thing that's negative. That's somehow our comfortable place of speaking. This all kind of begs the question, because I don't want normal life complaints and being a chronic habitual complainer? I mean, I know it's all very different and all, but what's your sense just generally own personal power, your sense of empowerment or ability to change things in your world. So the more that you feel stuck as if you don't have choices anymore, the more likely that you're going to get into this chronic mode. So this feeling of being stuck in a job or a relationship or a health problem is going to predispose you to being in a chronic point of view. In every situation, we do have a choice. We have a choice to make a change or accept what's

happening. But the chronic complainer is stuck in that middle zone, which is neither of those, which is I'm not changing anything, but I don't like it and I'm going to keep talking about it and not accept it. And that's the thing that is terrible for their health and for their mental well-being, as well as for the relationships around them. And everybody knows that when you have a problem that you complain about, taking action to fix it feels pretty good. I mean, it certainly beats sitting there whining about it. When you take action, you feel more empowered, you feel like you're doing something, and it's working towards fixing it rather than just sit there and moan and groan and make everybody else upset who's sick and tired of listening to your complaining. That's exactly right. Even taking a small step

gives you energy and it makes you feel more powerful. The small step can simply be making a decision that you need to figure out how to change this thing, this taking a look around and saying, okay, I want to make a change. Who can help me figure this out? Even that is an action. And that is enough to start to break the cycle of resisting what is happening without, and feeling stuck basically.

And that's the, any sense of forward movement will build on itself and make it more and more possible to make the change at the other end. Well, it's a message I think is so needed when you think about all the time that we waste complaining about what's wrong, not doing anything to fix the problem, and driving people away in the process. Wouldn't it be great if everyone just complained a little less? Sienna Stewart has been my guest. She is author of the book, No Complaints, How to Stop Sabotaging Your Own Joy. There's a link to her book in the show notes for this episode. Thanks, Sienna.

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we don't cover. We are famous for rabbit holes, Disney themed games, and fun facts you didn't know you needed, but you definitely need in your life. So if you're looking for a healthy dose of Disney magic, check out Disney Countdown wherever you get your podcasts. Anytime you can make a job or a task more like a game, it makes it more fun and easier to do. We do it with our kids. You know, if you want your kid to clean his room, turn it into a game and it's more likely to get done. And we do it with ourselves as well. Businesses have realized this and there's something now called gamification. I don't know if you've heard that term before. Fitbit is a good example of gamification. They have turned fitness into a game of counting steps, checking your stats,

comparing yourself to others. It's a game. And it turns out this is a whole big thing, gamification. Dave Eng is an intellectual and creative educator, designer, and researcher who combines game theory and technology, and he is currently the Director of Student Activities and Adjunct Professor at St. Thomas Aquinas College. Hi, Dave. Hey, thanks for having me, Mike. Appreciate it. So explain a little deeper what gamification is. Sure. So gamification is the application of game elements and non-game settings. So what we see most often with gamification are things like points, badges, and leaderboards. And those are gamified elements that we see in a lot of everyday settings now. Fitbit is a huge application of gamification. They track your steps. They

compare your steps and your activity against other people in your social network. And they also provide leaderboards. You can not only see how many steps you've taken, but you can also compare how you're doing against other people that you know in your social circle. And there is something about people who wear a Fitbit where it really becomes addicting in the sense that they can't stop doing their steps and they can't stop checking their stats. And do you think that was by design? Or is that just a nice unintended consequence that really helps Fitbit succeed? Oh, no. Everything that Fitbit does is by design.

Its whole aspect of being able to track your activity and gamifying it by providing you really good feedback is completely intentional. And the good part about gamification is that companies like Fitbit that are interested in increasing an individual's health and activity is for a greater good. However, gamification can still be used against some people, often for a corporate advantage or not specifically in your best interest. So where else, I mean, Fitbit's a great example, but where else? Where else has gamification part of our lives?

Well, I think one of the most prevalent areas and an area that a lot of people don't think about is with credit cards. So whenever an individual uses credit cards, particularly if they're part of a credit card company that has a rewards program, you earn miles or you earn points or something else. And those points and miles can be redeemed for different things, statement credit, but often for

individual items or experiences or something else. And while that on its face is not exactly gamification, other companies will add to that by having additional tier levels. So at 10,000 miles, you become a premier level. At 20,000 miles, you become an elite level member, and so on and so forth. And that really incentivizes people to want to continue to use their card, and sometimes to use their card even when it's not in their best interest, specifically just to keep earning those miles and those rewards. But isn't everything gamification? I mean, long before the term gamification probably came up, if I go to the car wash with my card and get 10 car washes, I get one free. Isn't that gamification?

Oh, yeah, definitely. Any really type of rewards or loyalty programs introduce or have used gamification in the past. But what I think is new and at the forefront right now is the ability in order to collect a lot of data on individuals. Like we're going back to the Fitbit example, that will not only track the number of steps you've taken, but oftentimes where you walk, who you walk with, and the distance and caloric pace in which you burn calories. And that's a lot more information compared to just taking 10 car washes in one month. And so what do they do with that information? Well, some of that information is used to better the company's own practices.

Like Fitbit may use it in order to generate information on how fit a specific area or geographic area is. Credit card companies use that information to give you a credit score, which can affect your financial picture in the future. So in general, that information can be used for the company's behalf, on the individual's behalf, or oftentimes for both of their perhaps. But overall, it's the flood of information that is really the game changer for gamification as it's being used today. Well, but it also sounds as if it could be a concern. I mean, what business is it of theirs who I walk with?

Really, any kind of information that a company can get on the consumer's behavior is going to be valuable. Whoever you may make purchases with or exercise with or do any sort of activities with really influences their business model and helps them determine how they can better market services and products to you. Yeah, I mean, that's what we hear is, yes, we're gathering all this information so we can deliver a better experience to you, our customer. Well, you know, which is fine, but it really sounds like they're gathering all that information so they can make money. And really, it's kind of big brothery.

Yes. In many cases, it is kind of big brothery. However, I think that the direction that we're going in right now is companies are able to make these kinds of offers to consumers because consumers feel like they're getting a pretty good deal here. I think one area that I feel is very interesting and incorporates some areas of gamification is with social media, specifically like a Facebook news feed is designed in such a way in order to give people that active feedback of seeing what their friends are doing, if there's any sponsored links that are applicable to them, and making it so that that Facebook news feed is kind of like an endless cycle. So in that respect, users feel that they are going to continue to use Facebook because

they get that great kind of information from their social circle. However, Facebook in return is taking all of that information and really developing algorithms in order to better serve ads or promote their own business model in the end. Which, you know, is their right to do, but it does put a lot of people off knowing that all this data is being captured and Facebook has all this data on me that maybe I'd rather they not, but that's the price you pay. Exactly. Yeah, it's going to be a trade-off. Some of that, again, some of that information can be used for your benefit, some of it for

the companies but overall I think if we can work together to have that information be a mutual benefit that would be the best outcome in the end so this is interesting to understand how gamification works and what it is and how companies use it to keep us as customers and all but what do we do with this information what what's the big so what here overall gamification is used by companies in order to achieve their business goals. But from an individual standpoint, you can use gamification in order to promote just your own goals. And while we see a lot of gamification used in the digital realm, like with Fitbit, you don't need to be as advanced as a programmer in order to use it for those ends. One powerful example that I've

seen other people use is something called temptation bundling. And temptation bundling is when you take something you don't want to do and you bundle it with something that you do enjoy. So one particular example that I've heard on another broadcast is a person that likes to watch one particular Netflix show, but will only do so when that person is at the gym. So they can only watch that show whenever they're on the treadmill. They don't want to work out, but they know that if they do work out, this is their only opportunity to watch that show. And that combined with the added incentive of making it so that if you want to watch that show, you're going to have to go twice a week or three times a week,

and setting those expectations for your own activity uses gamified elements, but it's not something that you have to rely on an outside entity to do. You can do that on your own. Don't those kind of games that we play with ourselves, though, eventually burn out? I mean, Pokemon Go is a good—I mean, that's gamification, but it's not what it was a couple of years ago. Yeah, that's true. I mean, part of gamification right now is that it is applicable for a very wide audience. But the problem with that is that if you rely on an outside company, you can't always, it will never please everyone all the time.

And that's the most difficult part. Particularly the outside companies are out there to make money. But as an individual, really, you will know in the end what is the best move for you to make. So I like your example that you can only watch this show if you're on the treadmill, and that's a way to motivate yourself using gamification. And I, in fact, do that with podcasts. Almost the only time I listen to podcasts, and I love listening to them almost as much as I like making them, is on the treadmill at the gym. And so that's my motivation to get to the gym because I want to listen to podcasts. But how else, besides that example, how else can we use gamification?

Sure. So one of the areas that I think is very useful is gamification uses a lot of good, active, visual, persistent reminders. And I think one of the more interesting applications of gamification I've seen in the past is with a tip jar at a coffee shop. Now, normally at coffee shops, it's just a tip jar and it has some change and probably some dollar bills in it. But this one particular coffee shop left two tip jars there. So one had a tip jar for if you're a Yankees fan, and another one had a tip jar if you're a Red Sox fan. So now in this scenario, people were incentivized in order to make a

contribution to the tips by voting with their money. And it was a very powerful and immediate piece of feedback because you can see which side of the, which fans had contributed more because you could see right into the cup. An individual could use that same level of interactivity and visceral feedback by, for an example, like a piggy bank, but a piggy bank that is clear and one that is, I would suggest a very long, narrow tube, because as you fill it up with change and as you fill it up with dollar bills, you can see your savings grow over time. Now, that's a really elementary application of this active and visceral feedback, but it is one that

if you place it on a spot that you can see every day or multiple times a day, it really gives you a sense of how you're progressing towards your goal, which should hopefully be saving as much spare change as you can. Give me one more example of gamification in everyday life. Sure. So another example is your goal may be using that really tall piggy bank to see how much you've saved. Another one could be when I teach my students personal development or time management or anything else, I also teach them about chunking because many of my students are procrastinators. And I think a lot of your listeners are too. But a way to get around procrastination would be taking large projects and large activities and

breaking them down into smaller activities. And I try to tell my students, try to break down large projects into activities that are, you know, maybe even five minute or less chunks. And by having those little tiny tasks that you can accomplish in less than five minutes and put it somewhere, perhaps like a whiteboard or somewhere public where you can publicly check them off or cross them off, is again a very powerful and visual reminder of how you're making progress towards your goal or project or whatever else you'd like to accomplish. I like this because what's interesting is people like to play games. I mean, people play games. They play video games. They play golf. They play tennis. People like to play games.

So why not incorporate that into something else to make that other something else more fun, more like a game? One aspect of gamification that I think was really interesting was the CRISPR model. There was this scientific project in order to map a genomic sequence, and it was something that could be accomplished by computers, but at a lot of time and expense. Really, humans were best suited to do this, but this was a really mundane activity. What this organization did was they took that model of having to sequence this genomic activity, and they essentially crowdsourced it, and they turned it into a game. So they were able to use the intrinsic motivation of thousands of people in order to advance our scientific knowledge and understanding by doing this mundane task that computers could have done but at great expense and used humans to do it instead. And individuals were happy because they were able to fulfill the scientific endeavor.

And the organization was happy because they were able to solve this complex task. It does seem that what you call gamification, you know, using games to motivate people to get things done. We've been doing this forever. We've been doing this since people were people. It's only now that we've given it a name and we've put some science behind it and all. But this, in many ways seems just like it's human nature yeah i mean uh gamification and motivation at its very basis is is driven by human nature our need to not only survive but to feel like we are accomplishing

something to feel like we are connected to a social network, and to feel like we are becoming the best person we can be. Well, it's so interesting that this idea of gamification is something humans have always done, and it's interesting now to put a name to it and see how it is we use gamification in our lives and how businesses use it as well. Dave Eng has been my guest. He is an educator and researcher who combines games theory and technology. He is an adjunct professor at St. Thomas Aquinas College and his website is DaveEngDesign.com. There's a link to his website in the show notes and thank you for being here, Dave. All right, thanks, Mike. Have a good day. It's no secret that advertisers do everything they can to attract our attention and get us to buy.

But there are some strategies they use that you may not be aware of. For example, people are drawn to the right hand, probably because most of us are right-handed. So when you look at print ads or in video ads, the spokespeople, the actors, usually hold the product in their right hand. Colors are used to convey emotion in advertising, and this is also true, it's particularly true, in logos. Blue equals trust, red equals excitement, green equals fresh, and yellow equals optimism. Placement matters. In print and web ads, the eye is more drawn to an ad when

images are on the left and text is on the right. The eye is also drawn to images with rounded corners rather than sharp angles. And this is true not only of images, but fonts as well. And big pupils. People are attracted to eyes with large pupils. So in a lot of ads, the model's pupils are retouched to make them bigger. And that is something you should know. We're on Facebook and Twitter, and if you follow us over there,

you'll get additional content above and beyond what you hear in the show. And reviews are always welcome. Wherever you listen to this podcast, on iTunes, Stitcher, Google Play, wherever, I invite you to take just a moment and leave a review. I'm Mike Carruthers. Thanks for listening today to Something You Should Know. Welcome to the small town of Chinook, where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper. In this new thriller, religion and crime collide when a gruesome murder rocks the isolated Montana community. Everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug-addicted teenager, but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced.

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and her very own family. But something more sinister than murder is afoot, and someone is watching Ruth. Chinook. Starring Kelly Marie Tran and Sanaa Lathan. Listen to Chinook wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Jennifer, a founder of the Go Kid Go Network. At Go Kid Go, putting kids first is at the heart of every show that we produce.

That's why we're so excited to introduce a brand new show to our network called The Search for the Silver Lining, a fantasy adventure series about a spirited young girl named Isla who time travels to the mythical land of Camelot. Look for The Search for the Silver Lining on Spotify, Apple, or wherever you get your podcasts.