Something You Should Know - Why People Snap & The Best Ways to Mend a Broken Heart

Episode Date: September 30, 2021

The #2 pencil is the one most of us use most of the time. So, why not a #1 pencil? Is there even such a thing? This episode begins with some remarkable facts about the humble pencil such as why we prefer #2 pencils, how many words the average pencil will write, why the vast majority of pencils are yellow and more. https://www.straightdope.com/21343238/how-come-you-see-2-pencils-but-no-1-pencils Watch the news and you will often see a story about someone who “snapped.” Whether it’s road rage or wrapping a golf club around a tree, people snap. Neuroscientist Doug Fields has investigated this and joins me to explain why almost all of us under the right circumstances can snap. He also explains why people who snap almost always regret it and what you can do to make sure you don’t snap even when provoked. Doug is author of two books, Why We Snap (https://amzn.to/3kL5A9Y) and Electric Brain (https://amzn.to/3ufCe6O).  Nothing hurts like a broken heart. But why does it hurt so much? And is there a way to get over a broken heart faster and make it hurt less? That’s what Ziella Byars wanted to know so she researched the science and wrote a book called How to Mend a Broken Heart (https://amzn.to/3EVT5ka). Listen as she explains the best way to heal a heart that’s been broken.  How many times have you heard that you shouldn’t eat too much salt because it can raise your blood pressure. Is that really true? Listen as I explain the science regarding the link between salt and blood pressure and why you may not need to feel guilty about adding a little salt to those french fries. https://www.menshealth.com/weight-loss/a19539739/truth-behind-5-food-myths/ PLEASE SUPPORT OUR SPONSORS! We really enjoy The Jordan Harbinger Show and we think you will as well! Check out https://jordanharbinger.com/start OR search for The Jordan Harbinger Show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts.  Go to https://Backcountry.com/SYSK to get 15% OFF your first full-priced purchase. Get a $75 CREDIT at https://Indeed.com/Something Get $15 off your first box of premium seafood when you visit https://WildAlaskanCompany.com/Something Design like a pro with Canva Pro! Get a FREE 45 day extended trial at https://canva.me/something Your fitness is essential! Join Planet Fitness now at https://planetfitness.com Firstleaf – the wine club designed with you in mind! Join today and you’ll get 6 bottles of wine for $29.95 and free shipping! Just go to https://tryfirstleaf.com/SOMETHING Omaha Steaks is the best! Get awesome pricing at https://OmahaSteaks.com/BMT Visit https://www.remymartin.com/en-us/ to learn more about their exceptional spirits! https://www.geico.com Bundle your policies and save! It's Geico easy! Never try to beat a train across the tracks. Stop. Trains can’t. Paid for by NHTSA Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Bumble knows it's hard to start conversations. Hey. No, too basic. Hi there. Still no. What about hello, handsome? Who knew you could give yourself the ick? That's why Bumble is changing how you start conversations.

You can now make the first move or not. With opening moves, you simply choose a question to be automatically sent to your matches. Then sit back and let your matches start the chat. Download Bumble and try it for yourself. Today on Something You Should Know, why are most pencils yellow? I'll explain that and other fascinating pencil facts. Then, why do some people just snap and fly into a rage? My interest in this subject started when I was robbed in Barcelona.

To my surprise, I instantly fought back, grabbed the guy by the neck, flipped him over and jumped on his back and put him in a chokehold. I realized I had done all of this without any deliberation or thought. It was all automatic. Then, the real connection between salt and high blood pressure. And it's not what you've heard. And how to mend a broken heart. There are ways to make it hurt less and speed up the process. Eventually, I think time does help, but when you're heartbroken, you can feel so desperate

to speed up that process, and I think just waiting and hoping that time will fix it is a really hard state to be in. All this today on Something You Should Know. People who listen to Something You Should Know are curious about the world, looking to hear new ideas and perspectives. So I want to tell you about a podcast that is full of new ideas and perspectives, and one I've started listening to called Intelligence Squared. It's the podcast where great minds meet.

Listen in for some great talks on science, tech, politics, creativity, wellness, and a lot more. A couple of recent examples, Mustafa Suleiman, the CEO of Microsoft AI, discussing the future of technology. That's pretty cool. And writer, podcaster, and filmmaker John Ronson, discussing the rise of conspiracies and culture wars. Intelligence Squared is the kind of podcast that gets you thinking a little more openly about the important conversations going on today. Being curious, you're probably just the type of person Intelligence Squared is meant for. Check out Intelligence Squared wherever you get your podcasts. Something you should know. Fascinating intel. The world's top experts. And practical advice

you can use in your life. Today, Something You Should Know with Mike Carruthers. Hi, welcome, and here we go with another all-new episode of Something You Should Know. Chances are that within arm's reach of you right now is a pencil. And there's a pretty good chance that it's a number two pencil. And there's also a good chance it's a yellow pencil. Why? Well, first of all, the most popular pencil

is the number two pencil. There is a number one pencil and a number three and four and five, but there are trade-offs between hardness and darkness in pencil leads, and the number two pencil is the best compromise

for most purposes. The number two pencil is the best compromise for most purposes. The number one pencil is darker, but most people find it smudges easily and has to be sharpened too often. One pencil can write 45,000 words or draw a line 35 miles long. The lead in a pencil is non-toxic graphite and the wood is cedar. Pencils have been mass-produced in Europe since 1622. The first U.S. pencils were made in 1812. 75% of all pencils are yellow.

Why? During the 1800s, the best graphite came from China. Yellow is the color they associate with royalty and respect, and a pencil painted yellow became known as the best pencil you could buy. And that is something you should know. You've probably seen YouTube videos, or maybe seen it in person, where people just lose their temper and go into a rage. Or some would say they snap. Why do they snap?

How is it that seemingly rational people can be pushed right to the edge where they snap and they do things they very often regret later or are often very dangerous or harmful to themselves or others. You see it with road rage, but I've seen it in other places too, in stores and sometimes over seemingly minor little things. So what is this? Why do people snap? Well, meet Doug Fields. He is a neuroscientist and author of a couple of books, including Electric Brain and another one called Why We Snap. Hey, Doug, welcome. Hi, thank you.

So, you've studied this. What's going on here? Why do people go into a rage? Rage, and in particular snapping, is kind of bewildering because it overwhelms us without any conscious thought. You know, something in our environment triggers this impulsive, aggressive response and it happens quickly. You know, and it's often regrettable. Why wrap a golf club around a tree? Because you miss a shot. So this is what is characteristic about it. It is rapid. It doesn't involve any conscious thought. And the outcome is usually

regrettable. I mean, if it's not a regrettable outcome, then we call that, oh, quick thinking or heroism or something like that. Yeah. See, and it's so interesting that everybody has felt that thing that makes them wrap the golf club around the tree or punch the wall or scream or whatever it is. And later we regret it. And yet when we see other people do what we think, well, what's wrong with that guy? What's his problem? Exactly. You know, my interest in this subject started when I was robbed in Barcelona on a way to give a talk at a scientific meeting. And to my surprise, I instantly fought back with the

robbers to get my wallet back. And if I'd thought about it, I never would have done that. That's stupid. You just give them your money. You don't risk your life fighting to get your wallet back. But I didn't think, and that's what engaged me in this whole subject. If something in my environment could trigger an instantaneous response where I would risk my life for limb, I wanted to understand how that worked at a neuroscience level inside the brain. All behaviors are controlled by the brain. And we have new neuroscience now understanding about rage and this kind of sudden aggression. Is it your belief or sense, because I think it's many people's sense, that rage is much more apparent in society today than ever before? Is that just a perception or do you think it's true? Well, there are aspects that make it a bigger problem. Certainly, one of the aspects of snapping and rage is stress.

Modern society, we have more crowded living conditions. We have instantaneous communication that allows for interaction between groups and stress levels are high. So there are a lot of changes in our modern environment that cause this snapping response. Now, the thing to understand is this neural circuitry, we all have the capability for violence. We don't need to be taught it. It is in our biology and we have it because we need it. You know, as a species, we're carnivores. We have to protect ourselves and our family. So we have it because we need it. You know, as a species, we're carnivores, we will, we have to protect ourselves and our family. So we are understanding that we have this behavior, but it, it gets misfired. That's when we call it, you know, rage or snapping. Otherwise we call it, you know, quick thinking, as I said. So the thing to realize is that the human brain is the same

brain we have today is the brain that our ancestors had 100,000 years ago, but we don't live in that environment. So our brain is coping with an environment it was never designed to deal with, like being in a car going at 60 miles an hour down the freeway. Your brain never was designed to understand and cope with that.

And so that artificial situation and others that are a consequence of modern society leads to misfiring of these circuits that we have. So I want to get a sense. So when you were held up in Barcelona, some guy tried to steal your wallet and you reacted by fighting back. What else went on in you? Because we hear stories of like, you know, superhuman strength and, you know, adrenaline pumping. And what, when rage kicks in, what else kicks in? Yeah, great question. So a little more background. So I was coming up out of the metro station and normally I travel alone,

but I had my 17 year old daughter with me. And when I come out, I felt this guy, I felt a tap at my pocket. I had cargo pants and instantly I felt my wallet was gone. And I shot my arm back, grabbed the guy by the neck, flipped him over my shoulder and jumped on his back and put him in a choke hold. All right. Wow. Okay. Now, I have no military experience. I have no martial arts experience. I have no street fighting experience. All right.

You're talking about a guy with gray hair, wire rimmed glasses. Okay. And now I'm on the ground with this guy. And at that point, I go, what are you doing? That was the first conscious thought. And I realized I had done all of this without any deliberation or thought. It was all automatic. And so, I wanted to understand that, but also how is that possible? Here I am walking, I'm going through as a tourist. I don't understand the language.

It's all, you know, trying to find my way to the Gaudi Cathedral, all this stuff. Yet my subconscious brain was always on the lookout for danger and knew this guy was next to me, even though I didn't consciously know, and set me on a deliberative course to engage aggressively. So this is the brain's threat detection mechanism. This is the important thing. The reason that this snapping response is so fast and doesn't involve conscious thought is in many dangerous situations, you have to respond quickly or you lose. And there's no time to go up to the cortex, cerebral cortex, where we have rational thought and consciousness. That's too late.

And that's because the brain is wired with a high-speed communication pathway from all of our senses that goes to the threat detection mechanism of the brain centered on the amygdala before it ever goes to our conscious brain in the cortex through a completely different pathway. So as we're going around our everyday life doing things, we're constantly, our threat detection mechanism, constantly taking in information about our internal and our external state, crunching this enormous amount of data and looking for threats. And if one's detected, it will set you on a definitive course to counter that threat.

So I get that. I understand the reaction is fast. What I'm trying to get at is, so then what happens? What goes on in the body and the brain after you've decided this guy's taking my wallet? What goes on that makes you flip him over, jump on his back, and basically put him in a chokehold? What's going on to do that? Gotcha.

And that is exactly what I wanted to understand as a neuroscientist. And it's important at this point also to point out, because I often forget this and people think I'm some kind of a lunatic, that was not our first encounter. We were robbed previously in Paris. So, you know, I was robbed before, pickpocketed, lost my passport and, you know, all my money. I'm trying to take care of my daughter. Now you can't get on an airplane. You can't get in a hotel. All these problems was, I was very much under stress. So when it happened again, my amygdala took over and it didn't ask me, it had learned, it had learned and it just unleashed this animal response. And again,

people are most familiar with this in the mama bear response. Don't get between a mother and her pups, right? Because, you know, ruthless violence will be unleashed. And we call it the mama bear response just because it's such an anomaly to think of a petite woman suddenly, as you're asking, suddenly just engages in this vicious violence and can pick up a car to rescue a child or something. But any parent will do that. Well, I was going to ask you, is that the same thing when a mother picks up a car and has no idea how she did it? Is that the same thing going on? Because that's, I guess you could

call it violence, but basically she's doing good. She isn't doing bad. She's saving something. When you unleash this response, this engages the maximal physiological response of your body. Adrenaline, all kinds of hormones kick in. We understand the physiology of this. So you are propelled to levels of physical strength that are maximal ability of your body. And you probably never go there if it wasn't a situation where you were risking your life was in danger or your your child's life is in danger so they're you know we're familiar with what adrenaline is um so you know a basketball comes into your visual field and and you battered away and you jump aside and you go what was that you know and that happened because you didn't even

see it the whole response the threat detection was detected by your amygdala it doesn't go to the cortex can't really tell that what the object is it just knows like a motion detector that it's in is something in your environment it's a threat shouldn't be there engages this this uh response to take out that threat. Do other animals have that same ability? I mean, we talked about them, you know, don't get between a bear and her cubs, but is that the same thing? Is it just something in living creatures

that we have this to protect ourselves? Yes, and you know, the nature of this research requires that most of it is done. Most of the research is done in animals for ethical reasons. Although we can then see that humans have the same circuitry. We can use brain imaging. We can use brain stimulation to do the corollaries.

But no, this is in our biology. We need to protect ourselves. We need to protect our loved ones. We need to protect our territory. There are certain specific things that are worth, I don't know if worth is the right word, but are in an evolutionary sense, your survival depends on it, right? So one of them that triggers E is for environment. That's protect your territory, right? A lot of animals are not territorial, but many of them are. And

the way they maintain their territories is through violence. Humans are fier not territorial, but many of them are. And the way they maintain their territories is through violence. Humans are fiercely territorial, right? Trespassers will be shot. If somebody comes in your house, you can engage in lethal violence. And we just accept that to get them out of your house. So this is something we share with other animals. Other animals have violence for predation to get food. We have that same circuitry. And it's important to understand that this is not a misfunction like a mental

illness. We have this because we need it, but sometimes it is inappropriately triggered because like any kind of a threat detection mechanism, there are false alarms. And that's what we call snapping, an inappropriate response. But yes, a lot of this research comes from animals, and we share this because it is biology. I'm speaking with Doug Fields. He's a neuroscientist, and the name of his book is Why We Snap. Since I host a podcast, it's pretty common for me to be asked to recommend a podcast.

And I tell people, if you like something you should know, you're going to like The Jordan Harbinger Show. Every episode is a conversation with a fascinating guest. Of course, a lot of podcasts are conversations with guests, but Jordan does it better than most. Recently, he had a fascinating conversation with a British woman who was recruited and radicalized by ISIS and went to prison for three years. She now works to raise awareness on this issue. It's a great conversation. And he spoke with Dr. Sarah Hill about how taking birth control not only prevents pregnancy,

it can influence a woman's partner preferences, career choices, and overall behavior due to the hormonal changes it causes. Apple named The Jordan Harbinger Show one of the best podcasts a few years back. And in a nutshell, the show is aimed at making you a better, more informed, critical thinker. Check out The Jordan Harbinger Show. There's so much for you in this podcast. The Jordan Harbinger Show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, everyone.

Join me, Megan Rinks. And me, Melissa Demonts, for Don't Blame Me, But Am I Wrong? Each week, we deliver four fun-filled shows. In Don't Bl't blame me we tackle our listeners dilemmas with hilariously honest advice then we have but am i wrong which is for the listeners that didn't take our advice plus we share our hot takes on current events then tune in to see you next tuesday for our lister poll results from but am i wrong and finally wrap up your week with fisting friday where we catch up and talk all things pop culture.

Listen to Don't Blame Me, But Am I Wrong on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. New episodes every Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, and Friday. So, Doug, here's an apparent difference that I see between people and animals that I'd like to get you to comment on. And it has to do with revenge. If you get between a mother bear and her cubs, she will take action to protect her cubs. But once the threat is over, she goes on her way and lives her life, and that's fine.

But with people, I mean, there have been people who've been cut off on the freeway who then go chase the guy. The threat's over, but we'll go chase the guy, maybe pull out a gun. But the threat has long since ended. He was triggered by what happened. He snapped. But now it seems like it's revenge that has taken over. I don't see that as being different.

We call it revenge, but there um, you know, there's no circuitry for revenge in the brain. What's happened in that case is a misfire. And once you engage in a violent, you know, a violent encounter, it's, it's, it's all or nothing. You are risking your life or serious injury. And so, you know, there's no, no second place. You you're either going to win or lose. So this whole physiological mechanism gets kicked in to take care of this threat. So it's a great example. Why are you suddenly angry? Because the guy cuts in front of you in the freeway. And you do eventually cool down, even cases where people pull out a gun and shoot somebody. Afterwards, they regret it. They always do.

Knowing the science of this, are there ways that you can put up roadblocks to like, I know you say it happens so fast, but can you stop yourself from doing it? The important thing to controlling this rage response is not to try and put a lid on your anger, but to understand what triggered this sudden rise in anger, because the anger is secondary. It's already been triggered. What caused this response? The second important thing to realize is after you identify the triggers, because this will allow you to control rage, is understanding that stress sets the threshold for pulling those triggers. In the same way that a burglar alarm, if that gets set too sensitive, you will have false alarms. Or if you're in a stressful situation, it makes sense to put your systems on high alert. So what happens

when you're under stress is that your body goes into a high alert and you're more likely to snap and it makes good biological sense but not everybody even if they're under stress becomes violent i mean there's certainly other factors too like i'm you know gender and other things i mean men seem to be more prone to this than women, but you could put two people in the same situation and one may react with rage and the other one could just shrug it off. Yeah, there are differences. I think everybody has this capacity because again, when we have this response and the response is helpful, we call it quick thinking or heroism. But when the outcome is inappropriate, then we call it snapping. People have different propensities.

You know, in a sudden situation, a dangerous situation, it's not always clear what the right response is. Do you fight or do you freeze or do you flee? Well, genes give us some flexibility. Some one person in a crowd may be like the Marine and take on the attacker, and that may be the right thing. Then another situation, somebody who is more meek will have the opposite response. So we have this genetic variation. The second factor is experience. The brain wires up through our childhood according to the environment we're raised in. If you're raised in a hostile environment, in a bad home or inner city where there's a lot of violence, you're going to develop circuitry in the brain so that you have more of an ability to snap, a hair trigger. Because if you don't, you'll be victimized.

And of course, we all know that drugs and alcohol can impair this circuitry. And the last thing is gender. By and large, males are much more violent than females. 94% of all the prisoners are male. And this is just a legacy of our biology. I saw that video this morning of this guy that kicked this woman down the escalator because he went by her on the escalator and bumped her, and she made a comment like, you know, you could say excuse me or something, and he turned around and just kicked her right in the chest and knocked her down. And then they had the picture of him being arrested, and he didn't look very happy.

And I'm thinking, what does he think now? Does he really, didn't look very happy. And, and I'm thinking, what does he think now? Does he really, I mean, well, that's the question. What, what, when people get nailed for this later on, or they think about it later on, cause it obviously seemed like a good idea at the time. Um, what do they think? What did I do that for? Mike, I'm so happy you brought up that because I read that story and I thought the same thing. And your listeners can go look up the video because it's just shocking and disturbing. That's a perfect example. That individual didn't plan to kick the woman down the escalator. It was a snap. And obviously, I can't claim to know all the details because I haven't

interviewed him. But from what I can tell, I can understand what happened in that circuitry. The important thing is to understand what the nine triggers are that will cause this response. You need to understand that so you control snapping in yourself and so that you can confront it. If you engage with somebody else, realizing that the situation is pushing on one of these triggers, then you're likely to be in a situation where the brain is wired to respond aggressively. I would speculate from what I see that that was insult was the trigger. The person, the woman told him, you know, to say, excuse me. And so he saw that as a challenge and as an insult.

Now, right or wrong, who knows? He's probably under stress. If you insult somebody, if you raise your middle finger when you're driving, you can expect a violent response. And it does not involve thought or the cerebral cortex it's not rational it's not deliberate it is fundamental to our unconscious threat detection circuitry but when people do things like that what do you what do you think i mean if they're interviewed after the fact what does that kind of person think later on? Like, boy, that felt good. Boy, am I an idiot for doing it.

What do they think? Universally, they all say the same thing. They regret it. And they're mystified. They profoundly regret it. I tell a story of a murder victim and the murderer, both of whom I happen to know. These were mentors who were good climbing buddies for 20 years. And one of them snapped.

I couldn't explain everything because the trial hadn't gone on. But one of them snapped and murdered his mentor. And immediately afterward, he confessed to the police, I didn't want to do it. I don't know how this happened. That's the usual response. That's why we call it snapping. That's why we call it a blind rage, because you don't deliberately engage in this process. You've said a couple of times that there are nine triggers to this kind of snapping, this kind of rage. Can you list them quickly? I can list the nine. Yeah, I'm happy to. And on the website, they're listed. So I created this mnemonic because you have to quickly identify

them and it's fun to do. So life more, it stands for life or limb, to fight back if you're attacked. Insult, to fight if you're an insult, you know, duels were very common, fight to the death with a duel. F is family, that's the mom of bear response, to protect your young. E is for environment, that's to protect your home or territory. M is for mate, mammals will engage in violence to obtain or retain mates. O is order in society. We're strictly dependent upon order in society. We use violence now. That's what laws are.

Throw people in jail to maintain order in society. R is resources. That's, you know, protecting your money or your food. T is tribe. You know know we're fiercely territorial and that's the key to our success actually as a species and s is stopped that you know if you're restrained you will aggressive act regressively to break the restraint i challenge your listeners to find any instance of sudden aggression and rage that is not triggered by one of these nine. Well, I bet just about everybody listening has snapped or come very close to snapping,

wrapping a golf club around a tree or hopefully something a little more benign than some of the things you've been talking about. But it's so interesting to hear that it isn't conscious thought that leads people to do these things. It just happens, which is why people regret it later and that it's exacerbated so much by stress. Doug Fields has been my guest. He is a neuroscientist and author of the book, Why We Snap. And there is a link to his book as well as a link to his website,

rdouglasfields.com in the show notes for this episode. Thanks, Doug. Thanks for being here. All right. Thanks very much. Do you love Disney? Then you are going to love our hit podcast, Disney Countdown. I'm Megan, the Magical Millennial. And I'm the Dapper Danielle. On every episode of our fun and family-friendly show, we count down our top 10 lists of all things Disney. There is nothing we don't cover. We are famous for rabbit holes, Disney-themed games, and fun facts you didn't know you needed, but you definitely need in your life. So if you're looking for a healthy dose of Disney magic, check out Disney Countdown wherever you you get your podcasts.

Not that I ask everyone this question, so I don't know for sure, but I would bet that just about everyone has had their heart broken at some point in their life. It has to be pretty close to a universal experience. And for those of us who have had our heart broken, I think we can all agree, it feels pretty horrible. Why is that? I mean, sure, it's disappointing, but so often you hear of people who have had their heart broken and they're just devastated. Why is that?

And does it have to be that way? Are there strategies to make it less painful and to get over a broken heart faster? That's what Ciela Breyer set out to discover for her book, How to Mend a Broken Heart, Lessons from the World of Neuroscience. Hi, Ciela, welcome. Hi, thank you for having me. So, what is a broken heart?

I think everybody knows the feeling, what it feels like to have your heart broken, but what's going on that causes that feeling? Well, I think when I started to look into more of the research, it's incredibly close to the state of grief. And I found that very interesting and quite eye-opening that there's so many similarities between bereavement as with a heartbreak. Interesting, because we, not that we make light of a broken heart, but it's almost as if we don't take it that seriously, especially, you know, if a teenager's heart gets broken, it's, ah, it's puppy love, these things happen, you'll get over it, there's plenty of fish in the sea. You know, we kind of gloss over this, but you're saying it's close to grief. Yeah, it is a state of grief. I would say

it's not as intense and it obviously depends on the relationship. But I think what can be freeing to view it that way and to look at the studies that show, you know, when researchers scan brains of bereaved people and people suffering heartbreak, the brains are registering that loss in the same way. I think it allows us to be a little bit kinder to ourselves because I think I'm the same. I definitely have had my heart broken and thought, oh, come on, it's just a breakup and, you know, you've got to rally round. And I guess the typical conventional advice when someone has a broken heart is you'll get over it. Time heals all that you eventually, you know, you'll feel bad now, but sooner or later, this will pass. Yeah, I think that is in some ways, although it may sound tough, I think it is quite fair advice because eventually I think time does help.

And I think eventually your heart does heal. But when you're heartbroken, you can feel so lost and so desperate to speed up that process. And I think just waiting and hoping that time will fix it is a really hard state to be in. Since you said heartbreak is similar to grief, how else is it similar? Many people who suffer heartbreak, as with people who are processing grief, they record sleep disturbance, immune dysfunction, aches and pains, stomach upsets, headaches. There are a lot of symptoms that overlap both. And that is coming from the shock and the stress that has been created in our bodies from the heartbreak. And what's typically going on in a person's head that's causing all this?

I mean, as I said earlier, you know, the advice is often, you know, there are other fish in the sea, you'll find someone else. And very often people do. So why do they think they won't? Or do they think they won't? I think you'd be a very strong person at first to be rejected and to have someone end a relationship and know confidently you will meet someone else. I think a lot of that hurt is about feeling sort of self-doubt and feeling criticized that this person is choosing to leave you or doesn't want to continue with the relationship. But I think a lot of the way that it's hard at first and part of the feeling so experience shock and rejection and loss all at once. And so the natural reaction for our body is to be stressed and to flood our system with cortisol. And that cortisol can be very disruptive. I wonder how the reason for the breakup impacts this. And what I mean by that is, it's one thing for somebody to break up with somebody because it isn't working out, as opposed to I'm breaking up with you because I've met somebody else.

It seems like that would sting a little more. I think if there's some element of the breakup that's mutual, if it feels like there is a joint decision or you feel you've seen it coming and there's been a period before the breakup that has given you signs, that is different. I think that the period of time of healing is then going to be shorter. Whereas if somebody chooses to leave and the other person wants to stay, that person who's heartbroken is going to have a much harder recovery. What about the breakup that is, I've met someone else? I think there you have betrayal as well as the feeling of loss and rejection. And that's going to just increase the stress for your body and for your mind and

it's going to take you that much longer to accept because I think you go in circles trying to work out what was true what wasn't true what was happening from your perspective versus what was really going on and I think that conflict is very hard to let your mind rest. And so much of the stress and the discomfort and the hard side of being heartbroken is trying to process what's happened and also trying to feel any kind of peace or rest. I mean, the fact that people who are going through grief and people who are going through heartbreak often can't sleep, and that makes everything feel so much worse, is a kind of hard side effect. And so what works better, anything, or do you just have to just suck it up and wait until it passes? No, there are things you can do to help yourself. And what is helpful, what I found helpful reading studies from neuroscience and psychology

is that there are bits of research out there that show what can make you feel better. So the fact that you are stressed and you have this increase in cortisol from the stress of the breakup, and you also have this decrease in dopamine from with the fact that your brain is no longer in this in love state. There are things you can do to readjust that and things you can do to help reduce cortisol. So one thing is exercise and using exercise to reduce cortisol and up endorphins really helps you feel better. And the more you can help yourself feel better, the easier that time that's passing will be. And it possibly could be shorter too. What else? What else helps to fix this or speed it up or make it less painful?

I would also recommend time in nature. So there are a lot of studies that say that being in nature and in a natural environment makes us feel calmer, decreases cortisol, makes us feel happier and improves our mood. And it doesn't have to be that you are going to a beautiful forest. It can be just being surrounded by green. The natural environment around you can actually change the cortisol levels in your body. So there are studies that have shown just 20 minutes, I think it was three times a week, spending time in nature, sitting in a natural environment, have affected hormone levels in people and helped their cortisol levels go down. I would imagine that part of the problem, at least for some people, is you can't stop thinking about it. You know, what if I had done something different or what, you know, why is this happening? And that distraction, whatever it is, whether it's in the forest or not, that getting distracted is probably helpful.

Yes. that getting distracted is probably helpful. Yes, distraction techniques are one of the methods that have been tested by researchers actually working just with heartbroken participants. So a lot of the research I've looked at is both people suffering from grief and people suffering from heartbreak. But tests done on heartbroken participants where they use distraction techniques really showed a

difference in their levels of heartbreak so that was you know measured by how engaged they were in photos of their ex-partners and they were less engaged and less distressed by those photos when they use distraction techniques so distraction techniques can be just forcing your mind elsewhere, or it can be throwing yourself into an activity, it can be watching a movie. And the idea of that technique is not to bury the memory of the relationship or to never think about that person or never think about that time with that person. But in the moment that those thoughts about the relationship or what went wrong are recurring on a loop and probably exhausting your poor mind, using distraction

can really help. You know what I wonder is that does it get better the more times you get dumped? Like if you've been dumped 10 times, is the 10th time just not quite so bad because here we go again. I think you get better at healing. I think you can practice techniques. I mean, there are people who are fantastic in meditation and mindfulness because they've dedicated time to it. So I don't think the pain would be less necessarily. It would be based on the relationship. I think there are times where you can have a really magical date and that person doesn't call and you are really floored by it. And that can be so much harder because you feel that much more silly and you feel you should be fine and you should be able to bounce back. And it was just one evening. But depending on what's happening in your life or maybe the timing and maybe your expectation about that evening, the heartbreak can still be

so hard. So typically, I would say a longer relationship. And of course, if you've been living with someone that's going to be likely to be much harder. But I think it can catch you unaware. And that can be what makes you feel so lost when you're heartbroken is also feeling so embarrassed that you've had such a strong reaction. Has anybody ever looked at, you know, what does the, what happens, the effects of a breakup, what does that carry over into the next relationship? Or are people, in other words, once you find your new love, do you pretty much get rid of the old one? I think there's always remnants of those past relationships, but I do think as much as I would never give it as advice, I would never say, start dating someone else and you'll be fine.

I think being in a new relationship is recorded and it's listed in a lot of this research as being one of the things that really helps people. So I do think when you're in a new relationship, if it's going well, that can really help put those other memories to bed. And I don't know how much it's going to bother you. It does seem that there are some real personality differences in people's ability to handle this. I mean, there are people who are so devastated by a breakup. And then there are other people who seem to handle it pretty well. They roll with the punches. It hurts a little bit and then they move on. And then there are other people who are somewhere in between. I think there is definitely a personality type that is going to feel things more deeply. I think that sometimes the people who suffer intensely with heartbreak can be the people who have been 99% of the time fine and bouncing back and never being distressed. And then one relationship at that time in that particular way ends and it really throws them. So yeah, I know that I'm someone who is very emotional and I feel such strong empathy for,

I can't watch adverts that are too distressing. So I know which group I fall into. But I think even if you're a relatively logical, calm person, and you don't get that emotional in your relationships or in your daily life, you can be kind of knocked sideways if you suddenly get heartbroken. What about people who break up because they have to, because the other person has done something that's not forgivable, that they need to move on, but they're initiating the breakup. I imagine that although we tend to think of it's the person who gets broken up with, the

breaker-upper in some cases could be in just as much pain as the other. I think if the person who's done the breaking up has felt they had no other option, you know, maybe the other person was unfaithful or had mental health issues, or if there were things that made it impossible to be in the relationship, yes, I think the person who's doing the breaking up could be suffering heartbreak too. I also think the person who is ending the relationship can experience a lot of guilt and they maybe are the ones who find it harder to fully leave that relationship in the past. I would say as hard as it is, I think I've very rarely broken up with anybody. I've only ever had people break up with me. But when that's happened, there is an end to it. Because

eventually, when you go through this process of recovery and healing, eventually it ends. If that person doesn't want to be with you, what are you going to do? You have to let go and you have to end it. And there's a sort of, I wouldn't quite say closure, but there's an acceptance there that means you can move on. I think if you've been the one ending the relationship, it can sometimes be harder to fully let go and not wonder, did I do the right thing? Did I really hurt that person? And not leave it in the past in the same way. Obviously, it depends on the nature of the relationship, but I've seen it. I've seen people who get broken up with, who get dumped, and you can just tell that what they're feeling is that this is fatal, that they'll never find love again. This is it. And objectively, we know that's probably not true, but they really believe it.

I think we can be very hard on ourselves. And like you said in the opening, we can treat a breakup as being this light thing. You know, it was just a breakup. And you feel, even if you're not a teenager, a little bit like a teenager again. And through reading more about the research from a physical and a mental perspective, comparing and overlapping a lot of the experiences of heartbreak with grief and bereavement, I found really freeing. I found it reassuring. I felt like I wasn't being overly dramatic to feel like someone had died or I'd had a loss because science was

telling me, oh, this is what is registering in the brain. This is the same on some level. And you're allowed to treat it as grief and you're allowed to mourn and cry and not feel bad about that. And maybe that's me being someone who is trying to be quite tough on themselves but I think generally we we are quite hard on ourselves so I think hearing that it's okay to see it as a form of grief can be a great relief and can maybe allow people to go through a grieving process I think another fascinating element when you read more about the studies around heartbreak is what is going on in the brain when you are in love, when you are being hit with dopamine and you're being fed these hormones to keep you attached and keep you driven to be in a relationship.

I found it very reassuring to read that when you fall out of love or you're heartbroken and you're no longer getting those hits of dopamine, that you crave it, that there's an addictive quality and that you're driven in a kind of evolutionary way to keep pursuing a mate and keep trying to get those hits. I think often after we've had a breakup, there's a kind of mania. We've, I mean, I say, have we all done this or is it just me? There's a danger of, you know, looking through social media and sort of trying to check up on what's the ex doing. And it can feel so out of character and strange and embarrassing, and you'll feel like this crazy person. And I think reading studies that show that your brain is in a

quite addictive state, that a brain scan of somebody who is heartbroken has overlap with those in drug withdrawal. That's so fascinating. And I think also gives us a little bit of clarity that you're not going crazy. This is part of your brain processing withdrawal and trying to recover from no longer being in this loved up state. What about that urge to when you've been dumped to go on your ex's Facebook page, see what they've been up to? Seems like you're just torturing yourself, but it also, I imagine, is hard not to do. I think the desire is fed by this sudden gap. You've been hitting this reward center of the brain when you've been in love

that is constantly keeping you loved up and attached. And when that person isn't there feeding it, there's a desire to find that yourself. So it's a very modern version to be going on Facebook. But I think that the kind of yearning and the slightly obsessive state that we can get into when we've been dumped is there from a kind of evolutionary standpoint,

there's this mammalian drive to maintain a mate and pair up and procreate. And there's a reason why that's being activated in our brains. So it doesn't last for very long. And I would say, yes, you are torturing yourself and try and stop. And I know from my own experience that I got my sister to change my password on my Facebook account. This is 15 years ago, but I remember her doing it. So it's definitely healthier not to do it. And I think that the recovery will be quicker if you can stop. But there's a reason it's there. And I don't think that we should feel

too embarrassed or cross at ourselves if we find ourselves exhibiting that behavior. Since everyone is so different, and every relationship is different, I'm not sure you can answer this, but are there some norms? How long should a breakup take? That kind of thing. There are some averages you can take from the length of the relationship. I would say that if your relationship has been shorter, your recovery should be shorter. I would say it will take at least a few months. It's not going to be days or weeks if you've had a heartbreak that has really knocked you. I think after six months, it's not going to be days or weeks if you've had a heartbreak that has really knocked you. I think after six months, you start to feel a lot more like yourself. I think that's a very

difficult date to pick and it can go on much longer. But if you can get through those first few months, trying to keep your mood up trying to not be isolated staying connected with friends and remembering that time with other people is really important you know there's something like 13 percent of people who are experiencing heartbreak you know slip into a clinical level of depression So you have to be careful in that period to not shut yourself away and to make sure that you are talking to people about how you feel. And if you can do things like getting outdoors, getting exercise, keeping your mood as lifted as it can be, then that period is going to be that much easier.

Well, it's comforting, I guess, in a sad way to know that if you feel somewhat devastated when someone breaks up with you, that it's okay. It's probably normal. It's a lot like grief. And there are some things you can do to ease the pain and speed up the process. Ciela Breyers has been my guest. The name of her book is How to Mend a Broken Heart, Lessons from the World of Neuroscience, and you'll find a link to that book in the show notes. I'm sure you've heard the advice, many people believe it, I've even heard

doctors say it, that you shouldn't eat too much salt because salt can cause high blood pressure. But it isn't true. The origins of this came in the 1940s when a Duke University researcher became famous for using salt restriction to treat people with high blood pressure. Later, studies confirmed that reducing salt could help hypertension. However, large-scale scientific reviews have determined that there's no reason for people with normal blood pressure to restrict their sodium intake. Now, if you already have high blood pressure,

you might be salt-sensitive, and as a result, reducing the amount of salt you eat could be helpful. However, it's been known for the past 25 years that people with high blood pressure, who don't want to lower their salt intake, can simply consume more potassium-containing foods. Why? Because it's really the balance between the two minerals that matters. And spinach, broccoli, bananas, white potatoes, and most types of beans contain more than 400 milligrams of potassium per serving. And that is something you should know.

While you're waiting around anticipating the next episode of Something You Should Know, which I promise will be very, very good, you could tell a friend about this one. Share this podcast with someone you know, give a recommendation, and we would appreciate that. I'm Micah Ruthers. Thanks for listening today to Something You Should Know. Welcome to the small town of Chinook, where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper. In this new thriller, religion and crime collide when a gruesome murder rocks the isolated Montana community. Everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug-addicted teenager, but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced. She suspects connections to a powerful religious group.

Enter federal agent V.B. Loro, who has been investigating a local church for possible criminal activity. The pair form an unlikely partnership to catch the killer, unearthing secrets that leave Ruth torn between her duty to the law, her religious convictions, and her very own family. But something more sinister than murder is afoot, and someone is watching Ruth. Chinook, starring Kelly Marie Tran and Sanaa Lathan. Listen to Chinook wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, this is Rob Benedict. And I am Richard Spate. We were both on a little show you might know called Supernatural. It had a pretty good run, 15 seasons, 327 episodes.

And though we have seen, of course, every episode many times, we figured, hey, now that we're wrapped, let's watch it all again. And we can't do that alone. So we're inviting the cast and crew that made the show along for the ride. We've got writers, producers, composers, directors, and we'll of course have some actors on as well, including some certain guys that played

some certain pretty iconic brothers. It was kind of a little bit of a left field choice in the best way possible. The note from Kripke was, he's great, we love him, but we're looking for like a really intelligent Duchovny type. With 15 seasons to explore, it's going to be the road trip of several lifetimes. So please join us and subscribe to Supernatural then and now.