Something You Should Know - Why The Right Words Matter & How to Stop Avoiding Stuff

Episode Date: December 26, 2022

There is something about feeling appreciated that feels so very good. However, there is one big problem with appreciation. This episode begins with an explanation of how appreciation is often misused and is often a missed opportunity. http://ombudsfac.unm.edu/Article_Summaries/Beyond_Reason.pdf Laughter can be magical. Not just the act of laughter but the word itself. It seems just using the word in conversation can win you big points. That’s according to my guest Will Jelbert, a communications consultant who has spent the last several years researching how to best use the written and spoken word to connect with people. He is also the author of Word Wise: Say What You Mean, Deepen Your Connections, and Get to the Point (https://amzn.to/358ndaX). Will joins me to explain how using the right words in your communication can make you a much more powerful communicator. People like to procrastinate. Which is weird when you think about it. If you have something that needs doing, why not just do it? Here to explain why we procrastinate and to offer some great advice on how to get things done that you keep putting off is psychotherapist Matthew Boone. Matt is an instructor at the University of Arkansas and author of Stop Avoiding Stuff (https://amzn.to/2FyXTlw).  It seems pretty common for people who are about to get married to have second thoughts. But could those second thoughts be trying to tell you something important? Listen as I explain. http://newsroom.ucla.edu/portal/ucla/should-i-marry-him-238482.aspx PLEASE SUPPORT OUR SPONSORS! Stop throwing your money away. Cancel unwanted subscriptions – and manage your expenses the easy way – by going to https://RocketMoney.com/something ! If you think you’re okay to drive after a few drinks, think again. Play it safe and plan ahead to get a ride. It only takes one mistake to change your life, or someone else’s, forever. Drive Sober or Get Pulled Over.  PAID FOR BY NHTSA Did you know that driving under the influence of marijuana is illegal? If you feel different, you drive different. Drive high, get a DUI. PAID FOR BY NHTSA Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The search for truth never ends. Introducing June's Journey, a hidden object mobile game with a captivating story. Connect with friends, explore the roaring 20s, and enjoy thrilling activities and challenges while supporting environmental causes. After seven years, the adventure continues with our immersive travels feature. Explore distant cultures and engage in exciting experiences. There's always something new to discover. Are you ready?

Download June's Journey now on Android or iOS. Today on Something You Should Know, the amazing power of showing appreciation towards others. Then, the words you use really matter. People react to certain words, like laughter. Laughter is a word that's scientifically been proven the best word to use in conversation. There was a study by the University of Vermont. They found laughter elicited more of a good feeling than any other word in the English language.

Also, why people who have second thoughts about their upcoming marriage may want to listen to them. And why is it when we have something important to do, we procrastinate? Well, you know, the explanations we typically give is that we're lazy or we're unmotivated. But I think it's helpful to think in different terms. We usually avoid an activity or a task because we're trying to stay away from some kind of internal discomfort. All this today on Something You Should Know.

Bumble knows it's hard to start conversations. Hey. No, too basic. Hi there. Still no. What about hello, handsome? Who knew you could give yourself the ick? That's why Bumble is changing how you start conversations. You can now make the first move or not. With opening moves, you simply choose a question to be automatically sent to your matches.

Then sit back and let your matches start the chat. Download Bumble and try it for yourself. Something you should know. Fascinating intel. The world's top experts and practical advice you can use in your life. Today, Something You Should Know with Mike Carruthers. Hi, welcome to Something You Should Know. How many times have you heard about the importance and the power of appreciation? Who doesn't like to be appreciated? Appreciation is an important element in any successful relationship.

It is one of the key reasons that couples either stay together or divorce. It's one of the key reasons organizations stay together or don't. But here's a problem. People don't express it. Most people acknowledge that they appreciate their mates and their co-workers and their family members, but most appreciation is silent. And if you don't express it, it doesn't do anybody any good. What people don't often realize is that being appreciative of others gives you power.

For example, in a negotiation, business or personal, the other person will be much more willing to go along with your ideas if they think you really appreciate them. And that is something you should know. Most of us are pretty good at talking. For most conversations, I imagine you don't plan out word for word what you're going to say or what order you're going to put the words in. We just say what we're going to say. And most of the time, that's probably just fine.

But words do matter. Some words are a lot better to use, and some words are a lot better to avoid. According to my guest, Will Gelbert. Will is a communications consultant and coach who works with both companies and individuals, and he has spent the last eight years researching how to best use the written and spoken word to connect with people. He is author of a book called Word Wise. Say what you mean, deepen your connections and get to the point. Hey, Will. Hi, Mike, and thank you for inviting me on the show.

So let's start right off the bat here with an example of a word that people could use, do use, don't use, that would make a big difference. In some cases, if we're trying to, you know, ask for help with something, using a word such as willing, interjecting that into the conversation, the person is much more likely to want to do it, because we're actually giving them, we're making it about them using their own will to help us out. So if I ask you, Mike,

would you be willing to postpone this interview by a half hour rather than saying, hey, Mike, can you do me a favor and postpone this interview? In most cases, people are much more like to be agreeable to a request if it's phrased in a way which is, would you be willing to do this rather than, can you do me a favor? And what's an example of a word that does you no good? And maybe a good place to start here is with business jargon, because people, some people really don't like it. And I can't imagine that's very helpful. When the Independent ran a survey of business travelers, they found out that touch base offline was the least liked jargon phrase. It doesn't really mean anything.

So what that is, is it's abstract. And that's the problem with the words. Almost all of the words that disconnect us is that they're not specific enough. So instead of saying touch base offline, what you could say is, I'll email you tomorrow. That means something, and it's more like to happen. So another type of word trash, which gets in the way of the strength of a phrase, is the word just. So I recommend not using the word just, the adverb just. In 2015, actually, a former Google executive called Ellen Lenz, she decided to ban that word from her corporate communications and her whole team. Why did she do that? Because she realized

that women were using the word just more than men. And she concluded that it's a marker of lack of confidence. I just wanted to check in on just wondering if you decided between this option and this option, or if you can just give me an answer. Or I'm just, you know, sometimes in the corporate context, we'll start an email with the line, I'm just following up on. What does that mean? I'm just following up on. So what, you know, the Google executive found was that when she struck that word just from her phrases, from her emails, it clarified and strengthened the message.

That's such a great example that I think everyone has done from time to time. And when you say, I'm just checking in, or I just need an answer, it's like, I hate to bother you. You're so important and I'm so insignificant. I'm just checking in. But we don't think of it that way. We don't see how just that word sucks the power away. What's another example? How many times have you been in a corporate presentation where the last slide says, any questions? And how often do people bring up questions when the question is phrased, any questions, in your experience? Not very often, almost never. Right, and do you know why that is? It's because any is too open-ended, it's too abstract. So it's back to that abstract versus specific, distinguishing between what is specific language and what is abstract. Any questions doesn't

encourage people to be forthcoming with questions. What it does, people can't connect with it. So if you say, does someone have a question? Or Mike, do you have a question? Much more likely that Mike is going to ask a question. Another example that you can just substitute, a word substitution is, instead of saying, can we talk? Say, can we speak about this? So talk is also associated with more things than just me moving my mouth and tongue to make words come out.

Talk is associated with a talk, which with, you know, you talk the talk, but you don't walk the walk. So it's got a slight negative connotation, whereas speaking has none of that negativity. So rather than using the verb talk, try using the verb speak and see what happens as well as dropping the word just just those two things alone and i just said just other words we can drop we have a tendency and it's encouraged by social media to try almost to exaggerate so how often in a relationship do you hear something like, you never listen? So that's word trash that I would describe as a lie maker. It's not true. It might be unintentional, but anyone who can hear has listened to something at some

point in their lives. Otherwise, they wouldn't have learned how to speak. So what's the truth? If you never listen is a lie in a relationship, what's the truth? It's, I don't think you're listening to me right now. Let's say you and I are married, Mike, obviously we're not. But, you know, you said to me, I don't feel like you're listening to me right now. I'm not going to be as defensive compared to if you've asked me or if you told me you never listen. And what I'm likely to do if you say to me

you never listen is I'm going to say, well, you're always moaning about me. So that always never conversation, people get further disconnected in relationships. One phrase I know you talk about, and I've always noticed it when people say it, is the phrase, I hate to tell you this. I hate to say it, but, and then they tell you something. And my guess is that they don't really hate to say it. They're, they're probably enjoying saying it. Rarely do people hate to say something to you. They, they get a kick out of saying, hate to say it, but it, but that party was much better than yours. Did I really hate to say that? No, it's an ego. And using the word hate, it's unnecessary. It might seem innocent, but it's the associations with words remain, regardless of the context.

I want to go back a little bit and talk about some of the corporate speak. You gave that great example, but some other examples I think would help too, because it comes up a lot. I hear it and see it in emails and some of it is really off-putting. So how often does the needle really move? You know, people use that phrase, we've got to move the needle on sales this quarter. What do you mean? Moving the needle is a metaphor from earthquakes. Moving the needle, rather than using that, why don't we just be specific and say, we're going to have a 20% increase. We're going to try and sell you 20% more acai bowls in the northeast region next quarter. It's not going to help your business to move the needle or to tell your staff that we need to move

the needle. Another thing is reach out, touch base. Touch base is a lot of sports metaphor in corporate communications. And when we say I'll touch base with you or a circle back tomorrow, how often does that actually happen? What do they do? Do they email you? Do they call you? Often what we found is that people don't do anything after saying a phrase like that. It's more of a I'm ending this conversation and this is a way to close it without seeming impolite. We're talking today about the words you choose to use in speech and writing and the effect that has on your relationships and connections. And my guest is Will Jelbert.

He is author of the book WordWise. This is an ad for better help. Welcome to the world. Please read your personal owner's manual thoroughly. In it, you'll find simple instructions for how to interact with your fellow human beings and how to find happiness and peace of mind. Thank you and have a nice life. Unfortunately, life doesn't come with an owner's manual. That's why there's BetterHelp Online Therapy. Connect with a credentialed therapist by phone, video, or online

chat. Visit BetterHelp.com to learn more. That's BetterHelp.com. People who listen to something you should know are curious about the world, looking to hear new ideas and perspectives. So I want to tell you about a podcast that is full of new ideas and perspectives, and one I've started listening to called Intelligence Squared. It's the podcast where great minds meet. Listen in for some great talks on science, tech, politics, creativity, wellness, and a lot more. A couple of recent examples, Mustafa Suleiman, the CEO of Microsoft AI, discussing the future of technology.

That's pretty cool. And writer, podcaster, and filmmaker John Ronson, discussing the rise of conspiracies and culture wars. Intelligence Squared is the kind of podcast that gets you thinking a little more openly about the important conversations going on today. Being curious, you're probably just the type of person Intelligence Squared is meant for. Check out Intelligence Squared wherever you get your podcasts. So, Will, let's talk about some words that maybe I can start to sprinkle in my conversation that would make me a better conversationalist and connect me better with people.

Laughter is a word that scientifically has been proven the best word to use in conversation to elicit happiness. So there was a study by the University of Vermont in Burlington, and they took the top words that were used across the New York Times, Google Books, Twitter, and lyrics from songs, music lyrics. Then they surveyed people and asked them to rate these top words, and they found laughter elicited more of a good feeling, of a happy feeling, than any other word in the English language. Well, that's really interesting. So work that into the conversation more often. Laughter, laughter, laughter. And you had mentioned earlier the difference between the words speak and talk.

And I know you have some interesting research that really drives home the point that speak is a better word to use than talk. And I know you have some interesting research that really drives home the point that speak is a better word to use than talk. Elizabeth Stokos is the professor of social interaction at Loughborough University in the UK. She looked at thousands of hours of conversation, her and her colleagues, not just herself. And she found that requests to talk are much less successful than requests to speak. So that included interactions between police negotiators and suicidal persons in crisis. So persons in crisis would say things like, I don't want to talk. What's the point in talking? But when the verb was speak, the person was much more likely to open up to conversation. So she recommends, that's Elizabeth Stokoe, the professor, she said,

use a question such as, can I speak to you about this? If you want to form a connection with the person you're addressing. Are there other words that come to mind that are magic like that? If I was going to give your listeners two words to start using more, it would be speak and willing, for sure. I would recommend using less adverbs just because they get in the way and try and substitute with specifics if you can. So rather than saying slowly, say five miles per hour. If you think about the words you use, which ones are the more specific words? What about the way you use words, not just the words themselves, but I imagine that how you use them can also help you connect with people or not.

The last sentence you use, I'll listen out for a word you use in that sentence. Now, to form a connection in the conversation, it would help if I use at least one of the words that you've used in your last sentence in my response. So if you use the word coffee, say you're talking about coffee, and if I respond to you and I use the word coffee in my sentence just it could be any word that specifically you used in the last sentence you'll feel more present more connected to the person you're speaking with let's talk about small talk because many people claim to hate it to have to

make small talk with people that doesn't really mean anything and isn't going to go anywhere. So help me make small talk easier. Well, a small talk is a lot of fun to talk about. Mike, when was the last time somebody said to you or asked you, how's everything? How's everything, Mike? Everything's great. It's impossible to respond to that with an honest answer. So the next time somebody asks you that, Mike, I would recommend saying, I don't know how everything is, but this, whatever, something specific, be specific and say, maybe you're eating a meatball sub. Say, I don't know how everything is, but I'm enjoying this meatball sub, thanks. Okay. But how's everything is a way to start a conversation,

because somebody has to go first, and you don't know anything about this person. So you might as well start big and then narrow it down. So how's everything? Seems like it may not be a bad way to at least start a conversation. I'd say it's a way to start a conversation that's not likely to elicit much connection or specifics. What would be better? You could say, how was your morning?

That narrows it down to, then it makes it easier for the person to respond to something that came from the morning. They'll instantly think about what they did that day. And it just makes it easier for your recipient of the question to provide you with a an answer that means something and then and then where do you go where's a good way to go a good place to go after you know how's everything or how's your morning and there's a little back and forth and, and,

and then things kind of die off. Oh, so what do you do? What kind of work do you do? It's, it's, it's a struggle sometimes. You know, what reduces the struggle? And it doesn't have to be a struggle. Also struggle itself is a, is a not helpful word, Mike. You know, because then it's, it's perhaps created something that an association with struggle then, which we don't need in the conversation. Well, you've said a couple of times, as you did just now about the word struggle, and we were talking about some of the death metaphors on social media, that the true meaning of those words creeps into the conversation because people know what those words really mean. But is that you just being overly sensitive to words like struggle and slay? Or do we really know that that happens, that people take the true meaning of that and absorb that into what they just heard? Or are you just being really sensitive to this? take the true meaning of that and absorb that into what they just heard or are

you just being really sensitive to this? It's probably because I've been obsessed with words for the last three years but what I have seen it's not just me that's that's noticing this is the people who are measuring psychological valence of words people are in you know there there, the financial markets, for example, are to some degree now influenced by word usage. So individual words that get put out in an article, a news article, may get rated for sentiment. So if you use the word struggle in a news article, it would have a negative impact on the view of that story. So that has the power to actually cause a stock price to drop. So it's real.

It has a real impact in the real world. Okay, so in a conversation, if I'm not going to use the word struggle where I would normally use it, what would be better? Well, I've heard people say in a workshop, I'm struggling to understand. And it usually puts the person they're saying that to on the defensive. What I would recommend saying instead of I'm struggling to understand is be specific about what it is you don't understand. So I don't understand how we're going to increase the sales target by 20% in New York for meatballs.

Be more specific. Struggle to understand. It's so abstract that it doesn't need to be that big. Are there any words that really seem to bother you or the research says are really off-putting for other people? I'm not a fan of the new normal. The truth is, it's the new abnormal, right? If something's new, it's not normal. Okay, well, that's a good example because I don't have strong feelings about the term new normal one way or the other. But what I do know is when somebody uses the term, I know exactly what they mean.

So in its ability to communicate something, new normal seems like a pretty good word. I mean, it's good that you don't get brought down by that usage, but some of the people I've been speaking to, they feel it's a sort of doom and gloom scenario, sort of, except this is how things are going to be, and there's no hope. Yeah, well, I get that. Yeah, I think that was a very good comeback to my question, because it is kind of doom and gloom, and we don't know if this is the new normal. You're saying that,

but we don't necessarily know that things won't go back to the way they were. We don't know that this is it. So yeah, I guess you're right. Yeah, that saying new normal is making a statement that you're really unqualified to make. Yeah, it's a buzzword. It's almost like a corporate jargon phrase that's been spread across society in the media. But what would you use instead? How things are right now. So just focus on what the situation, what restrictions are in place right now. What can you do now at the moment? So instead of saying the new normal, say at the moment, be present. What's happening now?

Well, I think you've given new meaning to the phrase words matter, not only to the words that you choose to use, but perhaps the words you choose to leave off to have a more meaningful conversation that connects with other people. Will Jelbert has been my guest. He is a communications consultant and coach, and he is author of the book, Word Wise, Say What You Mean, Deepen Your Connections, and Get to the Point. And there's a link to that book at Amazon in the show notes. Thanks for coming on, Will. Thanks, Mike. I appreciate you for having me on the show today, and it's been fun talking about words with you. Thank you.

Since I host a podcast, it's pretty common for me to be asked to recommend a podcast. And I tell people, if you like something you should know, you're going to like The Jordan Harbinger Show. Every episode is a conversation with a fascinating guest. Of course, a lot of podcasts are conversations with guests, but Jordan does it better than most. Recently, he had a fascinating conversation with a British woman who was recruited and radicalized by ISIS and went to prison for three years. She now works to raise awareness on this issue.

It's a great conversation. And he spoke with Dr. Sarah Hill about how taking birth control not only prevents pregnancy, it can influence a woman's partner preferences, career choices, and overall behavior due to the hormonal changes it causes. Apple named The Jordan Harbinger Show one of the best podcasts a few years back, and in a nutshell, the show is aimed at making you a better,

more informed, critical thinker. Check out The Jordan Harbinger Show. There's so much for you in this podcast. The Jordan Harbinger Show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Do you love Disney? Then you are going to love our hit podcast, Disney Countdown. I'm Megan, the Magical Millennial. And I'm the Dapper Danielle. On every episode of our fun and family-friendly show, we count down our top 10 lists of all things Disney. There is nothing

we don't cover. We are famous for rabbit holes, Disney themed games, and fun facts you didn't know you needed, but you definitely need in your life. So if you're looking for a healthy dose of Disney magic, check out Disney Countdown wherever you get your podcasts. Isn't it weird that when we know we have to get stuff done, at least most of us, we find ways to avoid doing it? Why? If you have to get something done, why not just get it done? Well, maybe if we understood why we put things off and avoid doing them, we could find a better way to avoid the avoiding and just actually do what we're supposed to do.

Well, here with some insight into this whole problem is Matt Boone. Matt is a psychotherapist and author of the book Stop Avoiding Stuff. Hi, Matt. Welcome to the program. Hi, thanks for having me. So it seems pretty common to put stuff off, procrastinate, and then beat yourself up for procrastinating. But why do we do it? Well, you know, the explanations we typically give is that we're lazy or we're unmotivated. But I think it's helpful to think

in different terms. We usually avoid an activity or a task because we're trying to stay away from some kind of internal discomfort, whether it's negative thoughts or uncomfortable emotions or sensations in our bodies or a constellation of all those things. So really, when you're not doing the assignment that you've set out for yourself or the work task, you're trying to stay away from that stuff. And if you can learn to have that stuff in a new way to basically approach the discomfort, it's much easier to do the task. So when you say approach the discomfort, what does that mean? Let's think about procrastinating on an assignment. Let's say you're a student, for example. I've done a lot of work with students in my role as a psychotherapist. If someone is avoiding a paper or a problem set, it's often because if they were

to do it, they would feel anxious because their mind might be telling them, you're not going to do this well, or you're going to get a bad grade, or even harsher stuff that our minds offer us. And what you can learn to do is just notice your mind, to not fight it, to not push it away, but just notice what your mind is offering you in a way that gives you some freedom to act in opposition of it. And also welcome and make space for emotions that might be uncomfortable, like anxiety or guilt or shame because you haven't been doing this task and you feel bad about it or the worries that you're never Going to get it done

So help me learn that teach me how to do that The method I work with is called acceptance and commitment therapy or acceptance and commitment training and it's a research-backed intervention model So basically it starts with connecting to your emotions like actually noticing what the emotion feels like in your body, the way you might just notice, you know, the taste of a cup of coffee or feeling of sunlight on your face. These are just experiences. It's also about becoming intimately acquainted with your mind, not so much the content of your mind, like what is it telling me, but noticing that your mind is offering you often evaluations, judgments, predictions, kind of all that negative stuff we want to push away. But really, we can't push things away so easily. When we do, a lot of research data suggests that those things get stronger.

If you try to make a thought go away, it'll kind of bounce back, especially if it's a painful thought. Same thing with emotions. So we learn to open up to those emotions and just allow them to be without trying to change them. And then from that place, kind of connect to what's important to you. We call that your values. So why would you do this assignment that you have in front of you? Maybe you want an A or maybe you just want to get it done. But if you think big picture, like why are you in school? Why are you studying? I work a lot with medical students and I often ask them, like, why are you in medicine to

begin with? And so if you're going to sit down to do an assignment you might be avoiding, you're going to feel uncomfortable. But if you're doing in that context, it's a lot easier to do. Well, my experience is, and I think for many is, it's always getting started. It's always beginning the process of whatever it is you say you have to do, whether you're, you know, you need to break up with somebody or do some work or clean the closet or it's getting started that's the big problem.

That's right. And people often wait around to feel the right thing before they do the right thing, assuming that I can't act unless I feel motivated or I feel confident. We all have the experience that once we get started, usually motivation arrives. You know, motivation usually follows action. It's not really the other way around most of the time. Which is hard to remember in the moment, but I think it is. It's everybody's experience that once you start something, that's how the momentum builds is, okay, I've got that done. Now I can keep going. Absolutely. If I can, I can give you an example from my own life.

Just this morning, preparing to have this conversation with you, I was feeling kind of nervous. You know, I wanted to do a good job and it was that kind of nervous where I couldn't focus on anything. And what I wanted to do is just write out a couple of key points to myself. But I was wandering around my house, washing dishes and basically avoiding. So I thought about, you know, what's my life's work about? So I sat down at my desk and I just wrote out the three negative thoughts that were showing up for me at that time. Here's what they were. What you say will be dull and uninspired. You know, thank you mind for that one. You're going to trip on your words or blank out and you're going to feel nervous when you do this. And so just putting them on paper and seeing them without trying to challenge them or fight them

kind of gave me a little distance and said, oh yeah, those are kind of habitual thoughts that I have. And then I kind of wrote down, what are my feeling right now? I noticed I'm having a bodily anxious feeling, like I'm feeling keyed up. I can feel my heart just a little bit. And then I thought, well, what's important here? And honestly, I wrote it down. I'm reading it right now. Like, if I really tune into why I'm here in this moment, it's about making a difference. You know, I'm a mental health professional, like that's really important to me. It's about reaching people, like connecting with them, and maybe even helping other people help other people, which is part of my life where I help therapists become better therapists. And it's also about living a rich life by doing

interesting things. And even as I'm talking about that, it feels sounds a little cheesy, but I get a little bit of chills as I'm connecting to what's important to me in this moment. And it makes it much easier to carry this nervousness and anxiety that will inevitably show up. And so are you nervous and anxious now, or does that help alleviate it? Often it does help alleviate it, but I don't make that the goal, because then I'm trying to control my thoughts and feelings again, which is kind of a problem. But yes, reliably, if I do something like that, the anxiety and the nervousness becomes less present for me, but it doesn't go away completely and that's okay. So the process that you described that you went through to prepare for this interview today, it seems fairly simple. I mean,

is that it? I don't want to reduce this to something simplistic, like here are the five easy steps to overcome procrastination for good in your life. It's more like an approach to life where you learn over time and you never completely learn the skill of being willing with discomfort, of showing up to what's there even though it's hard. Here's another example from my life. So my father has a chronic illness. He has Parkinson's with dementia. When I could go out to visit them in California, where I'm from, it would be really hard to be there watching him in his decline and also watching my mom, who's in her 80s, be his primary caretaker. And I would do my best to help. But in order to do that, I had to feel sad.

And I had to feel anxious about the future and my parents. And I had to actually come to grips with my own mortality a little bit. And so it's not like I did those things and they were done. But I said to myself, this is really important to you to be the kind of son you want to be. As I walk in there, I'm going to be mindful with these emotions and not try to push them away. What I find and what the research tells us, when you don't push away the negative stuff, you also get more access to the positive stuff. Some of my best experiences in the last couple of years have been with my mom, helping her bathe my dad, get him in and out of bed. I mean, it's been hard, but it's been really meaningful. And I treasure those moments with my mom.

And I think if people tune into their own lives, they've noticed that happening quite a lot for them as well. We just don't identify that having the hard stuff is important for having the good stuff too. If you think back, if anybody thinks back to times where they've done this, where they've put things off or they've felt very uncomfortable doing it, after it's over, I would say nine times out of ten, the feeling is, well, that wasn't so bad. And maybe it was even good, but it's never as bad as you think it's going to be. That's true. That's true. The trick is that sometimes reminding yourself of doing of that doesn't actually help you get motivated, though sometimes it can. A strategy I like to use myself and with the clients I work with is to ask them to imagine themselves 20 years from now and what kind of

kind, compassionate advice they might give to themselves. And often from that perspective, where they're not just thinking about this moment, but they're thinking about the arc of their life, this kind of moment of like, say, breaking up with somebody tends to feel less weighty and tends to be part of this bigger picture. And also the emotions, the sadness, the anger, the anxiety that might show up become just kind of natural byproducts of doing the right thing or living a meaningful life. One of the things that I find that does motivate me is when there's something I'm putting off, it nags at me and nags at me and nags at me. And if I just do it, it's off my plate, it's done. And I can, I can see the other side and I go, you know what,

let's just get this over with because then I'm done with it. It could be that, but it also could be different from that. Right. Like not like, I don't know how it operates for you, that, but it also could be different from that, right? Like not, like, I don't know how it operates for you, Mike, but like if you, I don't know if that's kind of like a browbeating yourself or casting it in yourself to get it done. Um, or if it's more like a, Hey, like a kind message to yourself, um, based in what's important to you. Like I'm going to do this task because not only will I probably feel better when it's done but also it's part of like my life's work or part of the show I create every day or

it's part of kind of Making a difference in the world when you can connect it to your values when you can connect it to what's important to you That becomes just a little bit easier and it becomes easier to actually move your feet in that moment. Because people will often say to themselves over and over again, if you just do it, it'll feel better. But they'll sit there procrastinating for days and days and days while they think that. Yeah, well, no, I'm not talking about necessarily meaningful stuff. Here's what I mean is like, I've had to get a smog check for my car in order to re-register it. And I've been saying every day when I get up, I've got to go get that. I've got to go get that.

And yesterday I said, this is stupid. Let's just go get it. And I did it. And now I haven't thought about it until just now. But it has nothing to do with my life's work. It's just one of those things. It's like hitting yourself with a hammer. If you stop, it feels really good.

Yeah. Well, this method in this model is also about just paying closer attention to your experience and spending less time in your head. So that's something your experience tells you. If I stop hitting myself with the hammer, it's going to stop hurting. But people spend time in their head ruminating about it. I should do this or shouldn't do this um all the time also i'm curious like like when was there any kind of like pain in the butt factor that you felt going to get your smog check like something that was like it felt boring or it felt kind of uh like a waste of time or you had other things you'd rather be doing when you did it? Well, I would rather do just about anything than go get my smog checked,

kind of in the same way that I'd rather do anything instead of getting a root canal. But, you know, it's one of those things that has to get done, but there's no fun in it. There's no, there's often a weight. So it's more of the hassle factor than anything else. Sure. Absolutely. Like you said, usually the experience is not as bad as we imagine it's going to be, but we could probably conceptualize your behavior, um, as you trying to stay away from that hassle, right?

Like there are many other fun things to do during the day than approaching that hassle. And what if we can learn that like to actually be there with the hassle just a little bit more in a way that's lighter and not fighting it and being grumpy about it, but just sort of embracing the hassle a little bit as like a byproduct of life. It becomes easier to actually just get off our butts and do something. Yeah, but it does seem to be human nature to avoid. It just seems to be, well, actually, I don't know. I mean, I know people that when they have things to do, they just go do it. And I envy that, but it does seem more often than not, people will put stuff off. Yeah, I think it's built into us. I think we are evolutionarily shaped to do that.

If we think about, like, who are we descended from? We are descended from the people who stayed away from danger, right? We are really good at escaping and hiding. That's one of the things that kept us alive because we do not have sharp claws and sharp teeth, right? And so we're typically kind of built to stay away from anything that's uncomfortable. Of course, we overcome that all the time. But anytime someone tells me, I just don't, I know what I need to do, but I'm not doing it. I, you know, I say, welcome to the human race. And of course,

there are those exceptions. Like my mom is a kind of person who, as they say, welcome to the human race. And of course, there are those exceptions, like my mom is a kind of person who, as they say, she's from Scotland, they say she never lets the grass grow under her feet. Like, that woman can do anything all day long, every day. It amazes me. But the rest of us are kind of struggling with our own kind of willfulness that we don't want to deal with the hassle. And so let's, let's recap, because so somebody because if somebody has something to do and they don't want to do it, what's the process? So the process is to pay attention to and ask yourself, what is it that I'm staying away from that would show up inside me if I were to do this task? If I were to go get my smog checked, what would I be experiencing? It would be some kind of thought,

feeling, sensation, or constellation of those things. And then to notice the messages that your mind is giving you about it. Messages that we tend to not even notice are messages from our mind. They just feel like this is the way the world is. Then... Messages like what? A message like, I shouldn't have to deal with this. This is too big a pain in the butt. Or why do I have to deal with this? Or this always sucks. You know, the kinds of things our minds might say to us. We rarely notice that our minds are offering us thoughts. We're just in the middle of the thoughts as if that's the way the world is. But we can notice the stream of the thoughts

as thoughts themselves. And there are a lot of great techniques to do that. Then they don't have quite so much power over us, they feel a little bit weaker, and it's like easier to change our behavior in that moment. And then embrace the discomfort that shows up, you know, just have it kind of like you might have that kind of sore muscle lactic acid feeling after exercising a lot like it's not something i have to avoid i can just have and then do the next right thing and do the next right thing after that and do the next right thing after that and then it's done and then it's done and then there's something else to do as there always is yeah but there is everybody knows that feeling of when you do something that you've put off,

and you finally do get it done, it feels good. And I wonder if it feels better than if you had just done it in the first place. It's the hammer in the head theory. I think that is true for a lot of people. We probably both know lots of people, and maybe sometimes we look like this ourselves, like that leave things to the last minute. And with that high-pressure deadline, it kind of feels like we're really doing something important

while we're doing it. And then when it's over, there's this giant relief. And that's pretty rewarding and reinforcing. And it also gives us the sense that like we did everything we possibly could because you're working so hard for that short amount of time. It's a lot harder for some folks to kind of do their work on a schedule to keep up with things because it doesn't have that kind of, you know, high pressure payoff. Well, this really shines a light, I guess, on what's going on in my head and everyone else's head

when we're procrastinating and what we're telling ourselves and how we're fighting with ourselves. And this is really illuminating. It really helps. Matt Boone has been my guest. He is a psychotherapist and author of the book Stop Avoiding Stuff. And you will find a link to that book at Amazon in the show notes. Thank you, Matt.

Okay, thanks, Mike. I really appreciate it. It's pretty common for people who are engaged and about to get married to have second thoughts. But according to a UCLA study, second thoughts could mean trouble. The researchers interviewed over 200 newlywed couples just after they got married, and the question was, were you ever uncertain or hesitant about getting married? The answer was yes from one or both partners in two-thirds of those marriages. Then the researchers tracked all the couples for four years,

and the results were that women who had pre-wedding doubts were more than twice as likely to get divorced as the women who didn't. And men with doubts were also more likely to get divorced. In fact, 20% of the couples with doubts were divorced within four years, compared to just 6% of the non-doubters. And that is something you should know. You know, I read somewhere that people really like when other people recommend podcasts to them. Because searching for a podcast that you're actually going to like and listen to,

it's hard because there's a lot to slog through. So do your friend and me a favor and tell your friends about this podcast. I'm sure they're going to like it. I'm Mike Carruthers. Thanks for listening today to Something You Should Know. Hey, hey, are you ready for some real talk and some fantastic laughs? Join me, Megan Rinks. And me, Melissa D. Montz,

for Don't Blame Me, But Am I Wrong? We're serving up four hilarious shows every week designed to entertain and engage and, you know, possibly enrage you. In Don't Blame Me, we dive deep into listeners' questions, offering advice that's funny, relatable, and real. Whether you're dealing with relationship drama or you just need a friend's perspective, we've got you. Then switch gears with But Am I Wrong, which is for listeners who didn't take our advice and want to know if they are the villains in the situation. Plus, we share our hot takes on current events and present situations that we might even be wrong in our lives. Spoiler alert, we are actually quite literally never wrong. But wait, there's more. Check out See You Next Tuesday, where we reveal the juicy results from our listener polls from But Am I Wrong?

And don't miss Fisting Friday, where we catch up, chat about pop culture, TV and movies. It's the perfect way to kick off your weekend. So if you're looking for a podcast that feels like a chat with your besties, listen to Don't Blame Me, But Am I Wrong? on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. New episodes every Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, and Friday. Hi, I'm Jennifer, a co-founder of the Go Kid Go Network. At Go Kid Go, putting kids first is at the heart of every show that we produce. That's why we're so excited to introduce a brand new show to our network

called The Search for the Silver Lightning, a fantasy adventure series about a spirited young girl named Isla who time travels to the mythical land of Camelot. During her journey, Isla meets new friends, including King Arthur and his Knights of the Round Table, and learns valuable life lessons with every quest, sword fight, and dragon ride. Positive and uplifting stories remind us all about the importance of kindness, friendship, honesty, and positivity. Join me and an all-star cast of actors, including Liam Neeson, Emily Blunt, Kristen Bell, Chris Hemsworth, among many others, in welcoming the Search for the Silver Lining podcast to the Go Kid Go network by listening today. Look for the Search for the Silver Lining on Spotify, Apple, or wherever you get your podcasts.