Something You Should Know - Why You Have Trouble Sleeping and How to Fix It & How to Succeed When You Feel Like You Don’t Belong

Episode Date: October 8, 2018

Even the best drivers get in serious accidents – usually because of bad drivers. So we start this episode with a look at why good drivers get into accidents and how to steer clear of them http://www.smartmotorist.com/traffic-and-safety-guideline/how-good-drivers-get-killed.html A lot of us don’t’ sleep very well. Often the problem is so chronic that we convince ourselves that it is normal but it is not according to Dr. Barry Krakow. Dr. Krakow is a board certified internist and sleep disorders specialist and author of the book Sound Sleep Sound Mind: 7 Steps to Sleeping Through the Night (https://amzn.to/2RvmGbf). He joins me with effective strategies to improve your sleep. By the way his website is www.sleeptreatment.com  Ever been in a situation where you really need to feel powerful and confident but were feeling exactly the opposite? Well, there is a very effective tactic that can really boost your power and confidence and it only takes a moment. http://www.businessinsider.com/a-simple-exercise-to-make-you-powerful-2015-10 Just about everyone has felt a bit out of place at work or other professional setting. But maybe that’s a good thing. Jennifer Romolini felt like an outcast all her professional life yet managed to use that to her advantage and succeed anyway. In fact she took what she discovered along the way and put it in a book called Weird in a World That's Not (https://amzn.to/2NlWGvO). If you have ever felt like a nerd or that you didn’t belong in an organization, listen as Jennifer explains how to use your uniqueness to reach your goals.   This Week's Sponsors care/of. For 25% off your first month of personalized care/of vitamins go to www.TakeCareOf.com and use the promo code SOMETHING   Ancestry DNA. For 20% off your Ancestry DNA Kit go to www.ancestry.com/something Glip. Get a free Glip account at www.glip.com/something Madison Reed. For 10% off plus free shipping on your first order go to www.Madison-Reed.com/something Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Today on Something You Should Know, what's the most common way good drivers get in accidents? I'll explain that. Plus, solving common sleep problems so you sleep better. And the big one is breathing. One of the fastest ways to know whether or not you have a sleep breathing problem is to assess whether or not and how often you wake up at night to use the bathroom. Because amazingly the two are linked. If you correct the sleep breathing problem, you stop waking up at night to use the bathroom. Plus, if you want to feel more powerful and confident, there's a simple tactic that works almost every time. And if at work you feel like an outcast or that you don't belong, that's very much okay. There are rules that you have to follow that come with a job, but there's also space for

you and your weirdness and the uniqueness that you bring to the situation. All this today on Something You Should Know. As a listener to Something You Should Know, I can only assume that you are someone who likes to learn about new and interesting things and bring more knowledge to work for you in your everyday life. I mean, that's kind of what Something You Should Know was all about. And so I want to invite you to listen to another podcast called TED Talks Daily. Now, you know about TED Talks, right? Many of the guests on Something You Should Know have done TED Talks Daily. Now, you know about TED Talks, right? Many of the guests on Something You Should Know have done TED Talks. Well, you see, TED Talks Daily is a podcast

that brings you a new TED Talk every weekday in less than 15 minutes. Join host Elise Hu. She goes beyond the headlines so you can hear about the big ideas shaping our future. Learn about things like sustainable fashion, embracing your entrepreneurial spirit, the future of robotics, and so much more.

Like I said, if you like this podcast, Something You Should Know, I'm pretty sure you're going to like TED Talks Daily. And you get TED Talks Daily wherever you get your podcasts. Something You should know. Fascinating intel. The world's top experts. And practical advice you can use in your life.

Today, Something You Should Know with Mike Carruthers. Hi, welcome. You know, I've never really understood bad drivers. I like to think of myself as a good driver, and I don't really understand people who speed and tailgate and zip in and out between cars, because we both still get to the next traffic light at about the same time anyway,

and I don't do those things. Bad drivers also, they get caught by the police a lot, and their insurance rates go up, which costs them money. Driving that way uses up more gas. And bad drivers end up in a lot of accidents. And unfortunately, they end up in a lot of accidents with good drivers. And that's the point of what I'm about to talk about. Research was done to discover how it is that good drivers end up in serious accidents.

And here's what they found. The most common way good drivers get killed is in head-on crashes, on straight roads, during daylight hours, and in good weather. What happens is a distracted driver coming the other way swerves over and causes the crash. In fact, 85% of all fatal crashes happen on two-lane roads, not on interstate highways. What can you do?

Well, watch those oncoming cars and, when possible, travel on roads with center dividers like interstate highways. The second most common way good drivers get seriously hurt or killed is at stop signs. The advice? When you see someone approaching a four-way stop intersection from the side, look at the driver, not the car. You can get clues that will tell you if that driver is paying attention and is likely to stop. And that is something you should know. Over the last several years, there's been a lot written and talked about regarding the importance of sleep. Sleep, or lack of sleep, has been linked to all kinds of health issues,

including weight loss and longevity, as well as psychological issues, workplace issues. Sleep, or not getting enough sleep, is a big deal. Yet we still tend to sacrifice sleep for other things we'd rather do. We do pay a price for that, says Dr. Barry Krayko. Dr. Krayko is a board-certified internist and sleep disorder specialist, and he is author of the book, Sound Sleep, Sound Mind, Seven Steps to Sleeping Through the Night. Hey, Dr. Krako, thanks for being here.

So how big a problem is lack of sleep? What are the statistics and the numbers? The numbers are unbelievable, and I say that now repeated. They're unbelievable because people really don't evaluate their sleep properly in the first place, and they just tend to normalize it. So people don't believe when we say things like anywhere from one out of three to two out of three adults has some kind of sleep problem that they could benefit, you know, by having an evaluation and treatment. So in order for people to understand if their sleep is problematic, let's set the baseline here.

In your view, what is good sleep? Well, that's an interesting question because it's something that I now personally can tell you exactly what it is because I experience it, and yet it's something that most people are in awe of or just in complete disbelief when they hear it. A good sleeper is somebody who gets into bed and goes to sleep. They sleep all night long. They don't wake up at night to use the bathroom, and that's a very, very important point.

And in the morning, they feel great. They jump out of bed if they want to. If not, they take a little bit of extra time to get going. But the point is that in a very short amount of time, minutes, half an hour maybe, they're ready to go. They don't drink coffee. They don't need caffeine. They've got plenty of energy all day long. They don't take naps.

And they don't really even get that drowsy in the afternoon. Then, of course, in the evening, they do what they have to do. If they want to engage in social activities, hobbies, athletics, whatever, after work, they've got the energy to do it. And then, of course, later at night, they get back into bed, and they fall asleep, and they repeat that cycle. Well, when you describe it that way, it sounds pretty easy, but it probably doesn't describe the way most of us sleep.

And when it comes to how much sleep, I mean, is the way to tell how much sleep you need to go to bed and sleep until you wake up and then I guess you got enough sleep because you woke up? That's correct. In fact, that's the important trick question that most people keep playing over in their minds as if that was the secret to sleep problems. And sleep hours, or what we call the quantity model, is very deceptive and will often lead people astray. The real answers to sleep come from looking at the quality of your sleep. When you look at the quality of your sleep and you address the quality problems,

such as breathing problems or movement problems or other factors that can disrupt your sleep, then you're going to make tremendous headway and you're going to lose the obsession or the fascination with the number of hours you sleep. Because the number of hours you sleep really can be quite variable for any number of circumstances and for any number of people. But in our culture, people think that the number of hours of sleep is the important issue. But in general, it is not the number of hours that drives things. It's the quality of your sleep that actually drives the number of hours of sleep that you get. So I imagine that many of the things that affect sleep quality, for better or for worse, are within our control. They're things we do or don't do. And so what are some of those things

that people should know about that can help them have a better quality of sleep? Most sleep problems are truly mind-body problems. So it's not so much a question that you screw up, it's a question that there are things that go on in your mind and things that go on in your body. And, you know, the two biggest things, the two most common things, are that physically, an enormous number of people, for example, who say they have insomnia, imagine that that's strictly a psychological problem. And it's just not true. An enormous number of people with insomnia have sleep breathing problems. And we've shown that in our research over and over again. So that's a physical finding. And one of the ways we know

that is that people who have sleep breathing problems wake up at night to use the bathroom. And I'll explain that later if you would like. The second half of this, though, is the psychological part is real, but it's often something that people don't look at in ways that would be most useful to them. They hear these simple sleep hygiene tips like go to bed at the same time every night. Well, that's ridiculous for somebody who's having insomnia. You know, they can't get to sleep, so why should they go to bed at the same time? And what I find is that the psychological treatment for insomnia must focus on, as I said earlier, emotional issues. When a person learns how to cope well with their

emotions during the day, they have a much greater chance of sleeping well at night. Because why? Is it because people who don't handle their emotions during the day lie in bed thinking about them and ruminating about them and consequently can't sleep? Absolutely. When, in fact, the point you just made is absolutely critical, and it's the one that many people don't get. They think that the ruminations and the racing thoughts are somehow flaring up at night, and they then have trouble sleeping, as if that's some good description of the problem. Well, it might be a decent description, but the truth is what you said.

The person has never really dealt with their emotional states during the day, their frustrations, their angers, even positive emotions, excitement, enthusiasm. And when those emotions are not attended to, you don't have awareness of them, you don't appreciate the, what I call, emotional intel or emotional intelligence that comes forward from these emotional states. They linger. And then at night, there is this tendency to ruminate because that's what the person learned to do. When they don't work with their feelings, people end up having racing thoughts and ruminations at night, and they wonder where these things came from. Well, they came from the

unprocessed emotion. But that, I think, for everyone is part of life. Who hasn't tossed and turned in bed at night because they are excited about something, either positive or negative, and it's kept them awake? So how often does this have to happen, that your emotions are keeping you awake at night where you would say, well, it's a problem rather than it's just the occasional excitement that keeps you up at night? Well, I think it depends on the issue of duration. When you talk about chronic insomnia, you're talking about people who, in our clinical experience, there really are these mental and physical components that have to be addressed in those chronic cases. So for them, it becomes, even though it might be waxing and waning, it becomes something of a lifelong, you know, experience or, you know, five years or 10 years or 20 years, I don't think those people would ever say, you know,

I'm comfortable with this, although amazingly there are a few people that do that. You know, these are things that really do take root, and then they cannot be eliminated easily for these individuals unless they understand what the right treatment is going to be. So I would say that absolutely there are some people that have this occasionally, but I don't think that's who we're really trying to target because the people who have insomnia really do complain about it several times a week and usually have it off and on for months and years. conversations with guests, but Jordan does it better than most. Recently, he had a fascinating conversation with a British woman who was recruited and radicalized by ISIS and went to prison for

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that ours is not a loving God and we are not its favored children. The Heresies of Randolph Bantwine, wherever podcasts are available. Our topic on the podcast today is getting a good night's sleep, and my guest is Dr. Barry Krayko. He's a sleep disorder specialist and author of the book Sound Sleep, Sound Mind, Seven Steps to Sleeping Through the Night.

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Ancestry.com slash something. So, Dr. Krako, you mentioned a few moments ago about the sleep hygiene ideas that we hear from other sleep experts that say, you know, go to bed at the same time every night and make sure your room is dark. Don't drink caffeine, you know, after four o'clock or whatever. Are these not good ideas? It's not that they're not good. It's that they're often given in the wrong context. I'll give you what I consider to be the best example. People are told that exercise is critical to getting good sleep.

I completely agree. However, in my clinical experience, what I see most of the time is that individuals who have sleep problems are exhausted. They're tired. They're sleepy during the day. And they're highly prone to accidents. So now you're going to tell this person to go out and exercise so that they can go for a walk and trip on the sidewalk and twist their ankle. What I say is find out what is really wrong with your sleep quality, which, as I've mentioned, is often a sleep breathing problem or a leg movement problem. Find out what's really wrong with your sleep problem. I mean, find out what the nature of the actual sleep problem is. Treat that condition, gain great sleep quality and gain greater energy, and then go out and exercise.

So my approach is very different. I'm not saying you can't go for a walk, and that certainly is a good thing. But many people who have sleep problems are very prone to injury and accidents because they make mistakes all the time. They lose physical coordination. They drop things. They misplace things. So this issue of sleep hygiene is not one about it not being valid. Sleep hygiene tips are useful, but they're not where you really want to go first to solve your sleep problems,

in my opinion. When you say breathing problems, what do you mean? Things like snoring or what do you mean by breathing problems? There's a whole spectrum of breathing problems that we have to first state that the individual is not really the best witness for whether or not they have that condition or not. You can have a sleep breathing problem with snoring, but you can have a sleep breathing problem without snoring. Sleep breathing problems can run the gamut from snoring up to sleep apnea, where you stop breathing. But the common denominator is that most people with sleep breathing problems will have these breathing problems cause awakenings and arousals of the brain

while you're trying to sleep. And these arousals and awakenings are relatively short, 10 seconds, 20 seconds, so you never remember them. And this goes on all night so that you're actually waking up 300 times in a night, and yet you may remember one awakening. And naturally, of course, if you do wake up 300 times during the night, you should be pretty tired and sleepy the next day. And so how do you correct that? Well, before you can correct it, you really have to identify it. And the problem for most people is they don't believe this. They don't believe they have sleep breathing problems. And as I mentioned earlier, I want to bring it up now because I think

you'll really appreciate this point. One of the fastest ways to know whether or not you have a sleep breathing problem is to assess whether or not and how often you wake up at night to use the bathroom. Because amazingly, the two are linked. And the way they're linked is quite interesting. It turns out that when you have a sleep breathing problem, it pushes fluid into the right side of the heart in an extra way that is abnormal, and the right side of the heart detects this problem and releases into the bloodstream a diuretic. The diuretic is called ANP, or atrial natriuretic peptide. It's a hormone. It's a diuretic. And everybody knows what a diuretic does. It goes to the kidneys and says, make more water. So people who wake up at night to use the bathroom, in many cases, think things like, I drink too much water. I have a prostate problem.

My bladder is small. It's a medication side effect. And the reality is the hard science, which has been proven now for several years, is that the person really is waking up at night to urinate because they have a sleep breathing problem. If you correct the sleep breathing problem, you stop waking up at night to urinate. So that's one of the most important ways in which a person can assess whether or not they're likely to have a sleep breathing problem. Well, if you do, what do you do about it? I certainly tell people the most important first step is to try to evaluate this in the context of how tired you are during the day, because the more you suffer, the more you obviously need to go to a sleep center or get an evaluation, read my book, check out my website,

you know, whatever. I mean, you've got to do more evaluation to find out just how significant this is. And at a sleep center, you know, you can get a test. Once you are diagnosed, you can start with simple things, which are quite powerful in my experience, and that is treating conditions such as allergies, using nasal strips. Doing things to make your nose work better clearly improves the way you breathe at night. But for most people with the actual disorder, which is called sleep-disordered breathing, the use of breathing masks or the use of little dental devices that fit inside the mouth will actually open up the airway

or increase pressure or air pressure in the airway so that the airway doesn't collapse, because that's what's going on in the breathing disorder. The airway is either collapsing fully, which is called an apnea, or the airway is collapsing a little bit, and both of those things cause problems. So these devices can actually overcome that, keep the airway completely open, and of course, because if you do that, then you don't have hundreds of awakenings all night long, and you don't wake up in the morning feeling exhausted. I remember hearing, and I want to get your comments on this, that allergies are a big factor with sleep problems.

And that, for example, you know, when you put your head on the pillow after you've been out and about all day, all the allergens that are in your hair go on your pillow, and then you breathe them, and it causes you to have breathing problems. And the simple fix is to wash your hair at night before you go to bed rather than in the morning. So what are your thoughts? Well, everything to do with allergies, including what's called allergic rhinitis as well as non-allergic rhinitis, these conditions are critical because when you find patients who have sleep breathing problems and are diagnosed with them, they can have between a 50% and 80%

chance of also having problems with allergies, with sinus problems, and these patients can never get the maximum benefit from any treatment they want to use and any attempt to make a treatment, you know, to produce a normal breathing because the allergies continue to clog up, you know, the nasal passages. And again, this is one of these things that happens in our culture, which is that people normalize this congestion. People think it's normal to have allergies. They think it's normal to have congestion. And they sort of just ignore it and say, I don't really need to do anything

about that. Well, if you have been diagnosed with a sleep breathing condition, I would encourage you strongly to do everything you can about it. And we have stuff, as I've mentioned in my book and on my website, that describes specific detailed information on how to improve your nasal breathing, because that will make a very big difference. Why is it, and I've always wondered this, because I have allergies, and yet most days I'm okay during the day, but it seems that something about lying down just messes up your breathing. What goes on? Well, one of the things that does

occur that's normal is that respiratory, you know, our breathing physiology changes when we lie down and it changes when we go to sleep. And the way it changes is such that our respiratory drive isn't as strong. And we can say, we could argue that that's probably okay for a lot of people who might be normal sleepers, although I'm not persuaded there are many normal sleepers out there. But really what's important is that the airway, the actual anatomy of your nose, your throat, your tongue, your heart palate, your soft palate, even your dental arches, you know, the shape of your dental arches, you know, that hold your teeth. All of this influences the way you can actually pull air into your body while you are trying to sleep.

And different people have what are called different risks. As you grow older, your tongue, for example, may actually get larger. If you have never had your tonsils out, it's possible your airway is more crowded. Sometimes you can just look at facial structures. Someone who has a narrow face has greater risk for sleep breathing problems because their airway is likely smaller. Well, you said something a moment ago that I think is pretty interesting, that you're not convinced that there's many normal sleepers. Well, if everybody's an abnormal sleeper, then maybe that's the norm.

But that doesn't mean it's necessarily good sleep. And like you also said, this goes beyond the usual you know go to bed at the same time every night keep the room dark and cool those kinds of things it's more than that there's a lot more than that i appreciate you sharing it dr barry craco has been my guest he's a board certified internist and sleep disorder specialist his websitetreatment.com and the name of his book is Sound Sleep, Sound Mind, Seven Steps to Sleeping Through the Night. And there are links to his website

and to his book in the show notes. Appreciate you being here. Thanks, Barry. People who listen to Something You Should Know are curious about the world, looking to hear new ideas and perspectives. So I want to tell you about a podcast that is full of new ideas and perspectives, and one I've started listening to called Intelligence Squared.

It's the podcast where great minds meet. Listen in for some great talks on science, tech, politics, creativity, wellness, and a lot more. A couple of recent examples, Mustafa Suleiman, the CEO of Microsoft AI, discussing the future of technology. That's pretty cool. And writer, podcaster, and filmmaker John Ronson, discussing the rise of conspiracies and culture wars. Intelligence Squared is the kind of podcast that gets you thinking a little more openly about the important conversations going on today. Being curious, you're probably just the type of person

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New episodes every Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, and Friday. As you move through your career at whatever stage you're at, looking back, have you ever felt out of place? Have you ever felt like an outsider, that you somehow don't belong here with these people in this room, whoever they are? You think that people can see right through you, and it saps your confidence and makes you feel uneasy.

Just about everybody has felt that way at some point. I think it's a pretty universal feeling. And if you feel or have felt that way, well, the next few minutes will be very important to you. Jennifer Romolini started her career as an awkward 27-year-old misfit navigating her way through New York media and became a boss, an editor-in-chief, an editorial director, and a vice president all within about a decade, and all the while feeling like an outsider. She's the author of a book called Weird in a World That's Not, and she is here. Hey, Jennifer. Hi, Mike. Thanks for having me. My pleasure. So I love this topic because, you know, I don't care if you're the coolest person in the world. There are times, I think,

where everybody feels out of place, out of their league, like they don't belong. And I can't wait to hear the advice on what to do in that case. But let's start with your story. What kind of misfit were you? Well, so I'd always sort of felt like a misfit, an outsider. You know, I'd had this very unconventional path to success, an unconventional career in some ways, started late, really kind of fought my way in. But one of the things that I was noticing was all of, when I got to the top or when I got to what we would think of as a conventional success, you know, when I had like a vice president title, when I was giving speeches in front of, you know, thousands of people, et cetera, I, I still felt the same inside. I still felt awkward and I still felt subconscious and I still felt, you know, neurotic in a lot of ways.

And I wasn't seeing anybody talk about that. I was seeing all of these career guides and all of these business books that seemed like, you know, they had it all together, you know, this wonder woman posing and this very polished feeling. And I wanted to, so I guess it was two parts. So that was, I felt that way. And then I was also managing a lot of younger women and I was seeing how they felt, which was like sort of stumbling over themselves. And I wanted to communicate to them that there wasn't only one picture of success, that you didn't need to change your fundamental being in order to get what you wanted. Well, I think though, and don't you agree,

or maybe you don't agree, that in those situations, pretty much everybody feels a little awkward, a little out of place because it's a new experience and they're nervous and everybody else seems to have it all together and you feel like a little kid. Sure, absolutely. But what I wanted was somebody to have it all together and you feel like a little kid. Sure, absolutely. But what I wanted was somebody to admit it, right? I wanted somebody to say, yeah, this is really how it is. Let me pull the curtain for you, you know, because what is particularly then, and I think it's changing, but a few years ago when we were seeing all these books aimed at women

that were about, you know about storming in and sitting in the chair and leaning in and all of that. And I was like, I can't take a seat at the table. I'm stumbling with the doorknob. I needed people to know that it was okay. And I felt like nobody was really giving that message. And so with that message, what's the advice? The confidence is overrated. That confidence is not a fixed state. I think that that's a total myth that we're putting on people. Like the confidence code, there's no code.

Confidence comes and goes, right? It's a fleeting state, I think, for me anyway. But that you have to be brave, and that the courage is what is going to get you through it. Like, you're always going to feel this way, but you just have to do it anyway. But one of the things that people do in trying to drum up the courage is fake it, is pretend like they're not feeling what they're feeling, because to expose that would be even scarier, I think. I think that's an old way of business. I think that business is starting to become a space

where there is opportunity to have more vulnerability and an opportunity to be more authentic. I mean, that's a huge buzzword. And I think that the reality is that this generation, the millennials, are sort of pushing things in a different direction. And I think that it's becoming more okay to just be yourself and just sort of own that discomfort. Which means to do what?

How do you be authentic and own your discomfort? What's that look like? Well, I think that you're not putting on a front so much. So you're sitting in a one-on-one meeting with your boss and you're saying, you know, I feel uncomfortable about this, but I think I have a great idea. And I want, you know, it's like, it's like owning that awkwardness so that it doesn't own you to some degree. I feel like in practice, that means talking about the things that are making you uncomfortable at work and sort of working through them with your mentors. Sometimes that if you have a boss that's really self-aware and really empathetic, I feel like you can work through that with a boss.

I feel like it's owning those things instead of stepping them down to some degree. I mean, within reason. Do you think that with practice, those feelings go away? Or is this about learning to live with those feelings and those thoughts? I think both, because you can't just be weird and awkward and emotional and overthinking. You have to be really great at what you do. And I think that competence and working very hard to have real skill, I think competence starts to erode some of the anxiety because you prove yourself to yourself over and over again, right? And I think that it starts to wash away when that happens. But I think every new situation, every risk you take, all that stuff's going to resurface. So it is learning to deal with it as well.

Yeah, well, there's always been that concern that the people who get ahead are not necessarily the best at what they do. They're the best at getting ahead. And the people who are really good at what they do. They're the best at getting ahead. And the people who are really good at what they do may not have the skills to get ahead. Right. And so that's where the courage comes in, right? The courage to say, I want this, I'm going to go after it. I'm going to go out after it in my own way. I'm not going to be like this person that makes me feel really uncomfortable, this sort of self promoter, this

person whose skills are sort of hollow at the core. I'm going to go after it my way, but I'm still going to go after it. So what does that look like? How do you if you're not going to do it the conventional way, which is the way that people seem to get moved up the ladder? What's what's the other way? Well, like there's small things, right? So if you're a person that doesn't like networking, right? I hate networking. I'm really bad at it because I don't like small talk. And I also don't like the transactional nature sometimes of networking. So we think that we have to have, there's all these myths and it's starting to dispel these myths, right? We think that we have to have a huge network. My network for as successful as I am is actually quite small,

but I have real connections with people who I can call upon, ask for advice, ask for favors, and they can do the same with me. And so it's that sort of tribal nature of these are my people and we stick close together. So that's one way, I think. The other way is this idea that success isn't going to look the same way for everyone. Like I wanted certain things, but I wasn't willing to do, I don't work with jerks. So I've lost out on jobs because I was uncomfortable with, oh, I don't like the way that person does this. I don't feel aligned with the sort of moral code of that business. Or I don't feel like this person has integrity, right?

Well, we don't have to collect every single opportunity. We think of our careers in this way of scarcity, like, oh, well, if I don't take that, what's going to happen to me? I'm going to live in my car, right? But it's not true. Another thing will open up. And really being careful about your path and really following who you are, I think leads you to success the same way as, or leads you to the same, can lead you to the same success as the person who's collecting the big network and just, you know, grabbing every opportunity, even if that doesn't necessarily feel right to them. I think that there's a careful way to do it that's more curated and more catered to who you really are.

Where do you find the courage when you're not feeling particularly courageous and, in fact, just the opposite? And you're talking about finding this courage, but where is it? Where do you get it? That's a really good question. I think that what I do is I think, well, first of all, I think out, well, what's the worst thing that could happen here? I always try to do that. Well, what's the worst thing that could happen?

I could fail. It could be a disaster. But I can live with that, right? I could live with this thing being a disaster. So I try to think out, well, what's my real fear here? And then I don't like to regret things, right? So I usually, the situation that's in front of me, whether it's being courageous about confronting something I see at work, that's, you know, not okay. Whether it's being courageous about stepping on a stage that I'm too scared to, whether it's courageous about walking into a social situation that makes me feel really intimidated. The way I muster the courage is

to think, oh, I'm going to regret this if I don't do it. I might not get this opportunity again, and I'm excited about this opportunity, really. And if I don't do it, then I'm going to kick myself later. And I don't want to live with that feeling. So I think that's, for me, where it comes from. But it can come from all different places, obviously. Well, I like that because that's where it comes from for me because I hate that idea of wondering, well, what if I had? You know, I don't want to live with, but that could have been great. It might have sucked too, but now I'll never know.

Exactly. So that's a good place to drum it up. I think so. Do you think too that people who feel the way you're talking about, does it help to hang out with other people that feel that way? Or does it help to hang out with people who are much more confident and much more in the cool kid club? It helps to hang out with people who make you feel seen, who you feel safe around,

who you can be yourself with. I have now at this point in my life, I have, you know, mostly women in my life who are wildly successful, and some are so confident, and I just sort of follow behind them like, wow, this is amazing what you're doing. I don't know if I could ever do that. And then I have friends and colleagues or people in my sort of professional network who can't believe the risks that I take. But the commonality there is that these are people that I feel very comfortable with, that I know't just be all you and all about you and, you know, wear your tie dye t-shirts to work and, and, and just do whatever you want that you still have to invest something in learning about the culture of where you are and the people you're working with and not just stand there and say, I gotta be me.

I'm not suggesting what, what you're, I disagree with the premise of this question because I'm not suggesting that. I'm not suggesting that you got to be you. I'm suggesting that you can be yourself and that also you need to be empathetic. You need to be considerate. You need to be able to read a room. I, I think that what I say in the book is you can fly your freak flag, but at half mast, like you have to, it's not like you walk in because what you're saying is that's selfish and that's sort of tone deaf to an office environment. And I think that one of the goals is to learn how to be yourself and navigate a traditional corporate environment. Because a lot of times people who are creative and emotional

feel like they're just shut out of traditional conventional careers. And what I was trying to say to them is you're not. You're going to have to put up with some BS. You're going to learn how to navigate these situations. And I break a lot of that down. I don't think there's any reality where you show up in a tie-dyed t-shirt and say, I'm me, just look at me and accept me. I think that there are rules that you have to follow that come with a job. And is that in following those rules, those conventions, you know, dressing the way people in the office dress, if there's a dress code, following protocol and meetings, learning how to write an email in the correct way, all of those things, there's also space for you and your individual ideas and your weirdness and

the uniqueness that you bring to the situation. You don't have to walk in trying to pretend to be a robot, if that makes sense. Yeah, I like that. Because we all have our own weirdness, or at least we think we do. And it's's nice to to hear that you know that you can bring that along yeah that's that's part of of who you are and it's okay to have that because i think everybody has that but you're not shut out either like you're not you're not shut out of the corporate world because you're unconventional and that was what I wanted people to understand. What's the payoff here? What's it feel like when all the gears are meshing together? What's that like? I mean, I find work to be wildly satisfying. I find achievement to bring me a lot of pleasure. I find being good at what I do makes me happy. Also, the nice thing is, is if you keep going, eventually, it stops really being about you. And at the stage I'm at now in my

career, it's really about the people that I manage. And it's really about giving back. And it's really about mentorship. And that is probably the most rewarding part of the whole game is when you get to get outside of your head and you get to really help foster another person's dreams and aspirations. So I think that's the payoff. Well, that's a pretty good payoff. Thanks. Jennifer Romalini has been my guest. Her book is called Weird in a World That's Not, and there's a link to her book in the show notes. Appreciate you being here, Jennifer. I thank you so much. I appreciate you having me. Bye-bye. Have you ever had to go into a meeting and make a presentation or do something,

and you know you had to appear to be confident and make a presentation or do something, and you know you had to appear to be confident, and the last thing you're feeling as you're about to walk into the room is confidence? Well, there is a fascinating technique worth trying. It's simply this. Just before you go into that meeting, think of a time when you were actually powerful. Just doing that, just thinking of a time you were powerful, will likely make you appear more powerful to the people you're about to talk with.

In a test, 60 people were divided into three groups of 20. One group was told to describe a time in their life when they had power over other people. Another group was told to describe a time when someone else had power over them. And the third group was asked to describe a trip to the grocery store. Then the participants were split into 20 groups. Each group was made up of one participant from each of the three previous groups. The 20 groups were then videotaped working on a survival task. And when the tapes were viewed later, the people who had first described the time when they were more powerful were perceived as more powerful by the people watching those videotapes. So simply by adjusting

your psychological state and recalling a time when you were more powerful can help you be more powerful. And that is something you should know. We're on Facebook, Twitter, and LinkedIn. We post content there that you don't hear in the program. So follow us on social media and keep in touch. I'm Micah Ruthers. Thanks for listening today to Something You Should Know. Do you love Disney? Do you love Top Ten lists? Then you are going to love our hit podcast, Disney Countdown. I'm Megan, the Magical Millennial. And I'm the Dapper Danielle. On every episode of our fun and family-friendly show, we count down our top 10 lists of all things Disney. The parks, the movies, the music, the food, the lore. There is nothing we don't

cover on our show. We are famous for rabbit holes disney themed games and fun facts you didn't know you needed i had danielle and megan record some answers to seemingly meaningless questions i asked danielle what insect song is typically higher pitched in hotter temperatures and lower pitched in cooler temperatures you got this no i didn't don't believe that about a witch coming true? Well, I didn't either. Of course, I'm just a cicada. I'm crying.

I'm so sorry, Chibby. You win that one. So if you're looking for a healthy dose of Disney magic, check out Disney Countdown wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Jennifer, a co-founder of the Go Kid Go Network. At Go Kid Go, putting kids first is at-founder of the Go Kid Go Network. At Go Kid Go, putting kids first is at the heart of every show that we produce. That's why we're so excited to introduce a brand new show to our network called The Search for the Silver Lightning,

a fantasy adventure series about a spirited young girl named Isla who time travels to the mythical land of Camelot. During her journey, Isla meets new friends, including King Arthur and his Knights of the Round Table, and learns valuable life lessons with every quest, sword fight, and dragon ride. Positive and uplifting stories remind us all about the importance of kindness, friendship, honesty, and positivity. Join me and an all-star cast of actors, including Liam Neeson, Emily Blunt, Kristen Bell, Chris Hemsworth, among many others, in welcoming the Search for the Silver Lining podcast to the Go Kid Go Network by listening today. Look for the Search for the Silver Lining on Spotify, Apple, or wherever you get your podcasts.