Somewhere in the Skies - A Candid Conversation with Peter Robbins: Part Two

Episode Date: April 20, 2025

On episode 405, we bring you Part 2 of our conversation with Ryan's mentor and UFO researcher, Peter Robbins. Peter opens up about his falling out with his co-author, Larry Warren, concerning their their British Best-Selling book, Left At East Gate, about the 1980 Rendlesham Forest UFO incident. Then, Peter discusses his latest work studying NASA and JPL anomalous images. Finally, Peter answers YOUR listener questions. Please take a moment to rate and review us on Spotify and Apple Book Ryan on CAMEO at: https://bit.ly/3kwz3DO Patreon: http://www.patreon.com/somewhereskies ByMeACoffee: http://www.buymeacoffee.com/UFxzyzHOaQ PayPal: [e-mail] Discord: https://discord.gg/NTkmuwyB4F Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/ryansprague.bsky.social Twitter: https://twitter.com/SomewhereSkies Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/somewhereskiespod/ Tik Tok: https://www.tiktok.com/@ryansprague51 Order Ryan’s new book: https://a.co/d/4KNQnM4 Order Ryan’s older book: https://amzn.to/3PmydYC Store: http://tee.pub/lic/ULZAy7IY12U Read Ryan’s articles at: https://medium.com/@ryan-sprague51 Opening Theme Song by Septembryo Copyright © 2025 Ryan Sprague. All rights reserved Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/somewhere-in-the-skies. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Maximum range based on EPA estimated combined fuel economy and a full tank of fuel. Actual mileage and range may vary. Hey guys, Ryan here, and welcome to part two of our campaign. candid conversation with my mentor and UFO researcher Peter Robbins. In part one, we discussed Peter's childhood UFO encounter that changed the entire course of his life and his sisters. We also discussed the recent controversy with the Linda Cortiel Manhattan alien abduction case, Peter's relationship with alien abduction researcher Bud Hopkins.

And we talked about the predecessor to the congressional UFO hearings that Peter took part in, which was called the Citizen Hearing on Disclosure. You can go one episode back to hear that conversation. But today, we're talking all about the falling out between Peter and his co-author of Left at East Gate, Larry Warren. And where Peter is today when it comes to the Rendersham Forest UFO incident, we then discuss his latest work studying NASA and JPL anomalous images. And then Peter answers your listener question. So let's get to part two.

And I hope you enjoy this entire candid conversation with Peter Robbins. You are now somewhere in the skies with your host, Ryan Spray. So one of the topics, Peter, that was discussed at the citizen UFO hearing was, of course, Rendlesham, the Rendlesham Forest incident, which you are quite familiar with, obviously. And you are not one to shy away from controversy. you know, whether it's the individual witnesses involved in this case or the researchers who've investigated it, a lot of people land on all different sides with it. But you are one of those people who wrote what I consider one of the most well-documented books on this case. However, your co-author has been put under intense scrutiny for his involvement in this case. And I'd love to approach that, if that's okay with you.

A lot of our listeners and viewers know about the controversy behind Larry Warren. But for those who may not be familiar with what the issue is with this witness that you decided to co-author this book with, I just wanted to sort of give you the time to maybe unpack that for us. What happened, what the issue was and where you are now with all of that, if that's okay with you. Yeah, well, the Rendleson Forest UFO incident is actually a series of events that occurred between Christmas and New Year's of 1980. And the story broke in October of 1983 in the British tabloid, the News of the World, because one of the men allegedly involved went forward and gave an account of it under pseudonym. His real name was Larry Warren.

And in fact, he was in the Air Force. He was stationed at RIA Fent Waters at the time. He was deployed in the forest area surrounding the... the base at one point during the period of these events toward the end and maintained that he observed along with several dozen other Air Force personnel a appearance of a craft and beings and we actually met briefly in 1984 during the Westchester triangular craft overflights and then made and then met again in 1987. This at the 40th anniversary of Roswell and the modern age of UFO sightings

and Kenneth Arnold, Mufon Symposium, which that year was held at American University in Washington, D.C. I had been on a panel discussion about abductions, which he heard, and I had heard him speak about his alleged experiences. We ran into each other in the hallway, the last day of the conference.

I wanted to do an interview with this guy. And I did not know at the time he had already decided he wanted me to co-author a book with him. He actually came to New York the very following weekend. And I did an extended recorded interview with him, which he gave me permission to publish and toward the end of Sunday. said, I think you're the person I'd like to write a book with.

And, you know, proposed what I considered at fair terms, which was, I be free to do this research in any manner that I wanted, and including if I could upturn his story. And he would be free to get his account, you know, on the record. I thought it would take a year or two, but it did not. It took nine years, a good part of which was not pleasant, but it was an important project to me. And when he approached me, I had been at that point of looking to get involved in my first book, Length Project. I assumed it was going to be on abduction, but this kind of tipped the scales. And what I was not prepared for in any sense, it's really not part of my character or makeup,

although we learned to compensate for these things over time when we need to, was the simple fact that somebody had approached me with the intention of deceiving me on very certain key issues with the intent of enrolling me in then helping him to deceive others, which is exactly what happened. So much of his account hung together well. And the few things that didn't quite make sense I was able to rationalize or to chalk off to post-traumatic stress, which I don't now believe that he had,

just drinking a lot early on. And we commenced our research. after five months or so, we went to England, which I felt was great. There's my second trip to England. I knew that we would look more serious as author and researchers if we actually went back to the location. On aware, at the time that in September, I think I was back in the UK for the 25th time with thereabouts. But we began our work in earnest. And that very first night on location in Suffolk, February 18th, 1988,

within sight of RAF bent watered perimeters, we had our own multiple UFO sighting, which was the most shocking thing I had ever seen since I was 14 years old, quite simply. And in a way, as far as enrolling me in his story, in completing the book with him, et cetera, the best thing that could have ever happened to my co-author. It was a matter at that point of me to say, you know, you either believe him or you don't. And you've just had a display of, you know, this extraordinary activity right here on location. And so we continued over the years. when the book was finally published, it did no better or no worse than any UFO book in the States, but partly because of random timing, the book was published in the UK in June of 1997,

the 50th anniversary of Roswell, the modern age of UFOs. The small press that published the book in the UK really went all out in every way that they could, with a very constrained budget to bring the book to people's notice. And it was a smash bestseller all over the United Kingdom, resulting in like a 13 city, one-month book tour. One of the great experiences of my life. And for years after the fact, the book stood at a point of respect and continued to bring to me people I would have never met otherwise, opportunities to speak in locations I would have probably never visited,

and a certain amount of respect that I would have not garnered had I not stuck with this project for so long. Unfortunately, it all started to really unwind in 2016 and 17. when one person after another started to come forward questioning my co-authors account in very specific terms, making contrary statements on record that completely negated each other, attacks, some of them in terms of the wording extremely violent on people who simply were citing the truth, and then refusing to answer specific questions of mine, regarding things that he had told me. And then my finding out that he had been making a living for the previous 20-odd years,

forging rock and roll memorabilia, and just as important, forging the provenance that would accompany the work and learned how to work the system illegally and very well, in some cases, very large and well-known auction houses. We have not been in touch for about eight years in any manner, which is fine with me. And there is still a small clique of people that follow him, although so much has been published to completely show. What a liar he is. Unfortunately, the main result of this in terms of my life as a writer and investigator was that the book I was most proud of, is littered.

with exaggerations, confabulations, half-truths, truths, and has suffered greatly in reputation as a result. Once this information came to me, and I had to admit how wrong I had been for so long, I had to bring all of this information to the attention of our American publisher in New York City and say, my investigation shows this is the result,

you need to do your own investigation. And if you come up with the same results I have, then you have to do something that I really hate but needs to be done, which is this book has to go out of print. And that's exactly what happened. And that book has been out of print eight years now and we'll not be going back in. It hurts in that there is so much I am proud of. in that book hundreds of parts of it. There are several hundred annotated, researched and confirmed footnotes, every one of which I stand by.

My narrative is absolutely as true as it can be, except in the places where I believed and was misled by aspects of what I believed and was fed. As it stands right now, Life goes on. I realized, you know, there are only two ways you can handle something like this. There's a kind of Dick Cheney, my way or the highway.

Real men don't admit they're wrong. You just hunker down and tough your way through it because telling the truth is for Sissies. And I spent more than a year following this every talk I gave, every interview I did on radio, every opportunity that people gave me to talk about this to apologize, literally. And when I think of the list of well-known people, I help to mislead. I think of the list of the thousands of people that I don't know and will never meet who took everything in that book seriously as a non-fiction account, which is just what it was build as, not a non-fiction account informed by a fair amount of fiction.

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The Hilton sale is on now. Book on Hilton.com or the Hilton app and save up to 20% to get the stay you expected. When you want savings, not surprises. It matters where you stay. Hilton, for the stay. I can't even imagine how incredibly difficult that must have been for you. And, you know, one of the first things you taught me when I got involved in the UFO topic was never be afraid to admit when you're wrong. And that has stayed with me for decades at this point, Peter.

And I know I've been wrong in the past. the present and probably the future when it comes to certain cases in this field of study when it comes to things i've researched uh but that one lesson has always stuck with me and to have seen you have to go through all of that was incredibly difficult for me as you know someone who considered you my mentor but i mean that's nothing compared to what you must have been going through so i i have two questions for you if that's okay. To what extent do you think the involvement of Larry Warren is true?

Do you believe at this point in your after investigation, post-investigation, that he was even there, that he was involved in this incident? And I guess my second question would be, what is the biggest lesson you learned from this entire experience when it comes to left it escape.

You termed it correctly what I believe, because I don't know. At this point, I would say, I do not believe his account of being taken underground and programmed and going through this fascinating stuff that he lays out in the book. If that happened, I think it happened to his roommate, who is one of the somewhat mysterious figures in this story because he has been very careful never to give a full account, a gentleman named Adrian Bostinsa on the record, who made it clear to Larry that he was never going

to talk about what he experienced or thought or believed he experienced, experienced. And that is another variable in this. Did certain aspects of this happen or were they put into the head of the individuals involved? Larry was in the Air Force. He was there at the time. He may well have had earlier UFO related experiences. And I say this in great part because his late mother, a lovely woman who both Bud and I interviewed extensively, certainly maintained that she had been taken with clear memories of being inside a craft, etc. And this is a very proper Boston bread lady who is not prone to exaggerations, certainly not in the service of supporting anything her son had said. So there is that. Also, that Larry, the real, modus operandi here as far as I've been able to look back and put together, he really wanted to be

a personality. He really wanted to be well known. He really wanted to be famous. And his mind growing up, it was all around rock and roll. That didn't happen. And good part because he didn't have the musical chops to do it. And people say, well, why would anybody want to be famous for something like this? Well, if you want to be a public figure, the witcher, the witcher. that get you there are sometimes secondary. And this is what he chose to go with. And I was the person he chose to enroll in helping to sell that story,

which is very different than what's happened with this situation with the British film production companies in Netflix where there was the same intent to deceive, but not because they wanted to be famous for something, as much as that there was money to be made on this sensationalistic, bogus, absolutely outrageous type of presentation of what could have been and historic, three-part Netflix miniseries on the same UFO case. That's one of the things that drew me to it.

What an opportunity. And, of course, that didn't come to be. Yeah, well, I guess to sort of wrap both those up, Peter. You know, what is the result? Yeah, the intent to deceive, that does stick out to me. Now, I know you as, you know, one of the most trusting people in this field. I take great pride in trying to take after you in that way as well. Not quite as trusting as I used to be.

Well, I can completely understand. that but that actually is sort of my question for you now has the have these two experiences in deception have they changed the way you think about the topic the people involved the cases you've heard throughout the years and um for those out there who might be like man that peter robbins is quite gullible if this is you know happened with this case and then happened here um and i mean no offense to you in terms of that whatsoever um um Again, these are all lessons we learn in being involved in this highly, highly ambiguous topic. Yeah, yeah.

What would you say to those people who might say something like that about you as a person? Well, you're absolutely right. If somebody's intention is to fool me, we know that it can be done. At the same time, I think intentional deception. in the wider world of UFO studies is really the exception to the rule. And I am convinced beyond any reasonable doubt that the overwhelming majority of events, claims situations that I have investigated are authentic. But what are you left with?

you learn. And life goes on. And for me, I've certainly been through worse in my life. And I would rather have had something like this happen and then handle it the way that I ultimately chose to handle it. Then let me put it this way. People have said, if you had it to do all over again, you obviously wouldn't.

you know, for logical reasons. And I think that was my original kind of impulsive feeling, but it's not that simple. Although it cost me and resulted in the publication of a problematic book, now a collector's item because it'll never be printed again. And I mean, I could go through it with you page by page and show you exactly what I knew to be true, what I suspect to be true, what I have problems with, etc. That does knock the wind out of you. At the same time, the Rendlesham Forest UFO incident represents important as it is, and it is a highly significant case with authentic witnesses and some very fine researchers and some quality books that have come out over the years,

there is a wider world in UFO studies that I can be involved in. I kind of dismissed myself from continued involvement in the case, either in terms of contributing to it or following up with more published material or engaging in dialogue with other researchers. I really felt the best thing for me to do was simply to walk away from it. And so I have. I will say somewhat poignantly that two weeks ago today, I spoke at a conference in New Jersey, the paracom where, you know, cryptoids, Bigfoot ghosts and UFOs all had speakers representing them. And I got to spend some time with a man named Charles I Halt.

Charles Hall at the time of the events in December of 1980 was the deputy-based commander of R.F. Bent Waters, except for ceremonial duties, effectively the commander on a day-to-day basis. A good man, a distinguished Air Force officer who did his best to see the base through this crisis and to uphold, you know, his responsibilities as a CEO, whose life, I helped to make somewhat miserable for many years. And we had been in contact over the years about me telling him how sorry I was for my part in this project.

And he was a real gentleman, accepted it. It was very good to see him again. I only wish him the best. He has a book out that's very much worth reading. called, oh, I don't have to, the Halt Experience, I think. Yeah. And I haven't read it yet. That will be a book that I will be reading this year, though,

in the world of Rendell some related literature. Wow. Well, thank you for being so open and candid about that. I truly do appreciate that. I know our listeners will as well. But I do want to move to some now, Peter, moving forward. I think we always need to look forward when it comes to this topic. And I have a couple listener questions here, if that's okay with you.

Please. Okay, okay, cool. Well, I just contradicted myself because I said looking forward, but we're going to look back in this question. Josh, Josh on our Patreon. Our Patreon subscribers get priority to ask. our guest's questions. So Josh went right to the front of the line here, and he wants to know, Peter,

after the UFO experience you had with your sister, Helen, did your relationship change at all with her immediately or in the years that followed? If so, how do you think it changed? What a great question. Yeah. I grew up with two of the best sisters anybody could have. one I remain very close with, who lives not far from me. Helen and I were very close growing up, maybe more than many brothers and sisters.

We were each other's priority playmates. Once we were older, we dated each other's friends as adults. We were roommates in two different apartments in a house over nine or ten years. We edited each other's work. would stay up late smoking weed watching very bad movies. She was a best friend. And so this revelation, so to say, it did nothing to inhibit the relationship, if anything, which might have happened anyway, we simply grew closer, as brothers and sisters do sometimes,

and were there for each other in our various capacities. I ended up toward the end of her career being manager of her band. At a time when my back was to the wall financially, she picked up a fair amount of the expenses involved in completing left at Eastgate. Wouldn't have been done without her. And with the UFO-related connection and her friendship with Bud, which is just great and very sweet. It drew us closer and gave us one more thing in common

that we were both passionate about. It certainly did nothing detrimental to our friendship, that's for sure, or our brother and sister relationship. That's good. That's good to hear. So Michelle on Patreon asks, who are some of your biggest influences in the UFO field? I mean, we obviously touched on Bud, but I know there were other individuals in your entire journey in uphology that definitely influenced you in many different ways. Are there any you'd like to point out?

Yeah, and thank you for that question. My first mentor was a man named Coleman von Kovetsky. Coleman was Hungarian, and before World War II had been a film director. Once the war began, because of his knowledge of film, he ultimately became a staff officer in the Royal Hungarian Army in charge of all photo reconnaissance and all audiovisual education for the troops like film strips. Meeting him was really something. He was in his 70s already and lived in Queen. in a small apartment. He was the most passionate UFO activist I've ever met. And through him, I met my first contemporary colleague, Antonio Huneas,

Chilean American National, whose father had been with the United Nations. And Coleman taught me to be passionate in a way, in a way in your investigations to, like most Hungarians is practicing Catholic and went to church on Sundays, but he kept his religious beliefs extremely separate from his UFO studies. He saw himself as a military scientist,

which I guess is a fair way to say it, and was the first person to expose me to the world of declassified documents. This is again in the later mid-70s and helped me to build that library and then got me my first, well, major UFO-related job. When I say job, I don't mean working for money, but Antonio and I were brought on to help edit a paper that had been requested by him from him from him. by Kurt Waldheim, then the Secretary General of the United Nations. And it was a very visionary paper looking at the possibility of a legitimate UFO incursion over American or Soviet territory being seen as a possible act of war by the opposite side.

And the nightmare possibility of a genuine anomalous event setting off a nuclear conflagration. So in 1978, I got to hear at the United Nations, Stanton T. Friedman, Dr. Alan Heineck, Dr. Jacques Valet, Gordon Cooper, the astronaut was not able to get in because of snowstorm the day before, but his statement read into effect. A very extraordinary United States lieutenant colonel, Army Lieutenant Colonel, Lawrence Coyne, who had been been caught in a helicopter UFO incident over the state of Ohio not long before that in the 70s. This even before I had attended or spoken at a UFO conference by some years. So Coleman was so important to me in that. Through Coleman, I also met another, well, my other mentor before Bud, a tough no-nonsense New York City police detective named Pete Mazzola.

who had he been a character actor, it would have been on lots of episodes of Kojak and Skagney and Lacey and Law & Order, Italian, American, Brooklyn, shot, stabbed, beat up, heavily decorated, detective, a character, and very heroic. He was the first person I knew. to be trained in regressive hypnosis, in his case for criminal investigation, and used that opportunity to record UFO witnesses, my sister and myself included. And then back before you could put voice analysis program on your computer, it was pretty big technology physically. The John Jay College of criminal justice in New York, the FBI, you know, major operations had it. And they were more than happy to allow him to use their apparatus because he was such a good cop. He took a certain amount of kidding, you know, about flying saucers, but he created an organization called the SBI,

the Scientific Bureau of Investigation, which at its height had more than 900 police officers from around the United States organized around reporting UFOs directly to the SBI because there was no more official American government agency accepting them. These people helped shape me. And I guess I could say the last two more informally were Stanton Friedman, who I became quite close to starting in 1987. Love the man and miss him every day. as good an investigator as we'll ever find. And Timothy Good, arguably the greatest UFO investigator in the history of the United Kingdom, fully retired now.

But he opened another part of the world for me. Also, like so many people that we meet in the field, this is only an aspect of their lives. Tim paralleled his career in UFO study. as a professional violinist and violist for many years with the London Philharmonic. And then as a session musician with everybody but the Beatles and the Rolling Stones. In fact, we ultimately met at the studio where the Beatles recorded all of their famous. Oh, gosh. I know what you're talking about.

I shouldn't be blanking on this. Anyway, a great man, a great guy, and a real inspiration to me as an investigator. Interesting. Wow, I never knew that, that he was a violinist. That's incredible, incredible. We all lead such interesting lives, especially outside of the UFO field as well, which I always find very fascinating. Last Patreon question here, listener question for you, Peter.

And this is a big hypothetical, a fun one. You ready? Robert on Patreon asks, if you had the option to know the truth to one unsolved UFO event in history, what would it be? Oh, man. Yeah. That would be my first.

What exactly happened to my first? sister. And well, you know, there are people as we know in the field that will tell you exactly what happened and why and who it was, where they come from, how long they've been coming here. At this point in my life, personally and as a professional, I know, absolutely, how little I know. We're not alone. There are other intelligences that come and go. the likelihood is that a percentage of them are extraterrestrial. Others take your pick interdimensional. A lot of people are enamored with time travelers. It's more of a challenge for me, but who is to say? One of the challenges of being in UFO studies is we are an entirely unregulated

operation. If we were attorneys or physicians and you know, we published false information or well, kind of a patient died, you know, stuff like that, the AMA, the Bar Association, the law, could act. In order to be a UFO investigator, and I separate the pejorative term from a trained Mufan investigator. That's, you know, they do that. The only requirements are really touch your finger to your nose, turn around three times and say you're a UFO investigator. You know, there are now more schools, universities, colleges that have offered courses, pioneered in part by Dr. David Jacobs, who gave a course on UFOs at Temple University for, I think 18 or 19 years. in Philadelphia that never didn't fill. Smaller colleges, community colleges. I spoke two weeks ago at a community college.

Things are changing. They are opening up. They're getting better. In this post, well, as we know, the influential New York Times articles from December of 2017 that were written by the great journalistic team of Ralph Blumenthal and Leslie Kane and Helene Cooper. Some people say those articles changed everything.

I don't know if they changed, well, I don't know if they were the cause of the sea change, or if it was kind of waiting to happen. And it just happened that that article, those two articles were published at the moment that they were with things fairly fluid. In any case, we are in what I would call now the post-ridicule era, although there's still room for ridicule. There always will be. Who would have imagined? I wouldn't have. years ago when this was such an outsider subject,

when you were the person for everyone you know who, oh, that's my friend such and such, they're into UFOs. Or for some people, it's not meant to be insulting. Oh, you're into UFOs. Then are you into Bigfoot and past life regressions and ghosts and hauntings? Well, it's a question that's just a setup to make you look. like a, you know, just a cheerful believer in any damn strange thing that comes along. And in the event that you are, you could discredit yourself or contribute to discredit yourself

by saying, yes, I am actually interested in ancient civilizations or in lay lines that run across England or, you know, you're just one of those crazy little characters that make life interesting as opposed to now more and more mainstream. I know you from the same kind of informal demographics that one puts together by being immersed in this work would agree with me that a big difference right now, say from when you got started, is every year more and more people care less and less

about what they think, what you think about what they think about UFOs. people who would have either kept this together, either as a couple or a small group of friends, or somebody they can fight it in. But I don't want to be caught at a UFO conference seeing maybe somebody will see me that I know, or I'll just feel like a goofball because I know everybody else is wearing aluminum foil under their clothing. Everybody now understands that they can talk about this and not immediately be seen. as a subject of ridicule. It's interesting when things so profound change and then it's simply accepted.

One can argue, you know, before there were mobile phones, they were just a science fiction luxury. And overnight they became an absolute necessity for many people, most people. But I would have never imagined that this, in my lifetime, this would not be, that this would become a mainstream subject. And that there would be hearings in Congress. Again, what we're dealing with there is the secret keepers are still happily at work. You can now talk about, you know, in a House of Representatives hearing. some of the extraordinary things we're hearing from whistleblowers. One thing you cannot talk about is the abduction phenomenon.

It's too much. It's too wild. It's too crazy. We can't manage it. And all the other stuff that's attached to it, e-hybrids and missing pregnancies and other small awkwardnesses. We've got to keep the dialogue on the stuff that we're not talking about. A researcher with a long history once told me, looking back at the 70s and kind of the birth of abduction related research with people like Bud Hopkins, that up until that moment, well, even continuing from that moment, it was okay to talk about the cars but not the drivers.

That's where, what do you mean? Aliens from space, okay, let's talk about these vehicles and trace, cases and physiological changes to soil and radar returns declassified documents corroborated accounts but this other stuff is just too icky and too creepy and we just have to keep turning people's attention to how open we are with this soap opera kabuki play indonesian shadow puppet theater that is now threading its way through time. And as far as the forces that be, I'm sure they'd be happy to see these hearings run for 20 years. And just every once in

around, oh, we've learned something new. There is that wild card of, in the process that we call disclosure, which apparently is not what some of us thought it was going to be originally, although who knows about the future, where all the world leaders go on television at the same moment and start my fellows, Albanians, Indians, Canadians, Americans, whatever, it's my solemn duty to tell you, blah, blah, blah. It's a process, and it is continuing on. And every day, more people are brought into that reality, either with the sighting and experience or the results of study and at a certain point feeling that there is a preponderance of evidence that cannot be ignored, even if it's not something they've experienced firsthand. So it's a very exciting time to be involved in this work, and I'm damned if I know how it's going to resolve. You and me both, Peter. I know.

Exciting times, uncertain times, but the times we are living in, nonetheless. To wrap things up, let's talk about the future. What do you have coming up? I know you're now giving a brand new lecture on research that you've been doing. Tell us a little about that if you don't mind. And yeah, anything else you have coming up in the near future that we can look out for. Yeah, a little more than a year ago, I became re-interested in a certain type of photos that NASA and Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena have been involved in for decades now. Because shortly after we started to send up artificial satellites, we started to send up artificial satellites with cameras attached.

and initially started to photograph the surface of the moon from several hundred miles up, asteroids, ultimately Mars, and other missions as time went on. The problem is that there are photos going back to the beginning. Many of them, landscape, so to say, covering hundreds of miles, others taken from a lunar landing of something a few feet away. that there are there are terrains on the moon and Mars and certainly on Mars random objects that simply shouldn't be there or configurations. We know there is a human condition called paradolia. It's something we're all subject to and in a way it's kind of fun.

It's like for a kid looking up in the sky and seeing for a moment a cloud, in the shape of a lamb before it goes to be a cloud again. Or, you know, the old man in the mountain, bless its heart in New Hampshire that collapsed some years ago, a recognizable, you know, profile in a rock face. But there are things that go beyond that. This is an example of a certain kind of tubular structure that's massive, that seems to be translucent or transparent, that either serves as a conduit of some sort, a huge open, atmospherically controlled tunneling on the surface, that there is no natural explanation for whatsoever.

And NASA JPL, NASA standard response, when one brings up such questions, is it is paradolia, or this is some kind of natural condition that we don't understand. Of course, was it what it can't be is representative of any previous activity, whether it's architectural or, you know, some kind of terrain shaping or random objects, because of course that can't be, because nobody's ever been there. So move along, nothing to see here, except that they are there. are there and what began to occur to me and here's an interesting one this it's not a surprise but some of

the photos pick up things in the atmosphere above that circle to the left has no natural explanation although that circle in the middle was the question here and we're stuck with both of them but on the the premise that these things are available on NASA JPL databases to check against, we have the longitude, the latitude, the mission, the location in time, and it's essentially just part of, you know, the footnoted history of strange things. Strange things. What occurred to me was is there a way that this information could be represented to the American public and certainly to our congressional investigators getting beyond oh don't even bother me with this ever since the advent of Photoshop I don't believe any image that I don't believe and I certainly have you know grounds to do that

And we all are sophisticated viewers. Even if we know nothing about film, we watch a lot of it. And we demand high production values. And, you know, somebody at home can create a moving image. God knows there are countless ones of UFOs, a legend. Or a simple picture of something that's invented. Except that what we're looking at here are really. real. The photo on the left is on the moon. The photo taken on the right is on Mars. We have seen

these configurations, all of us at one time or another, in our lives, unless there is, okay, you give me the odds of one in whatever that this can happen in nature. Okay. But give me a break, right? It felt important enough that I should pick it up and start to move forward with it and introduce it as a wider subject for discussion. Again, the earliest images that I have by citizen investigators go back 50 years now. This is not new. And I will stress here, none of this is is original research. Please don't credit me for any of it. I just am going into databases that other people have put together and because I have something of a voice in this work can present it to you. And anybody can pick this up. There are lots of sites that post this information with dialogues. It's a whole different cadre of researchers. At a certain point, I will move on to. something else. But right now, I think this is important. And I'll be doing a next major presentation

on it at Contact in the Desert coming up in California in May and June. Ambition comes in all shapes and sizes. At First Citizens Bank, we roll with your goals because we're built for what you're building. Fit for your ambition for Citizens Bank. Oh, that's exciting. didn't know you were speaking there. That's going to be amazing. Awesome. Awesome. Please give everyone my best there. I've had the opportunity. My one time speaking a contact in the desert, Peter, of course, was during COVID when the entire thing was done remotely. So I wasn't able to make contact in the desert, unfortunately. But it was fun. That's exciting. That's exciting. I have one more slide here to close out this incredible

conversation that you've been so gracious with your time with. This was a memory I will never forget of you, myself, and researcher Micah Hanks in Central Park, Central Park West, I think to be specific, one of the images at least. And just a day I'll never forget. It's made it into my upcoming book. It was conversations that I will hold dearly forever. You know, we talked about the John Lennon UFO sighting that took place as we passed the Dakota, which I know is not where the sighting took place. But just knowing that John Lennon had a UFO sighting was something I was not familiar with.

You told Micah and I about the history of Central Park and how it came to be. And again, I show these images not because of UFOs, but because of what incredible friends, both Micah and yourself have been to me throughout the years and that we can talk about other things than just UFOs. And I think that's what's most important. It may be the topic that brought the three of us together, but it's certainly not the only topic that keeps us friends and colleagues. So yeah, yeah, I just wanted to point that out before we close things up here. These pictures are taken on the stairs facing the Bethesda fountain. Obviously, the water wasn't turned on yet.

Looks like early spring, I forget. And for years, in partly supporting myself as a writer, and during the years I worked in off-Broadway theater, I was a New York City walking tour guide, something I still do what I can with friends when I get into the city. The history of New York City has fascinated me really since I was a little boy.

And my grandpa, my father's father used to walk me around and tell me what the city was like when he was a boy. The fact that I don't live there anymore is immaterial to my continued fascination with the history of this remarkable city. And it is my home and I will be back there every chance I can for the rest of my life, that's for sure. Same, same. You know, I do consider New York City my home. I spent, you know, many of my formative years living there. And, yeah, again, just an incredible memory, one that's etched its way into the annals of at least my research and my UFO books. So I can't wait for people to read my chapter on you and the experiences we've had throughout the years inside and outside of this field.

But I want to thank you for Peter for giving us so much of your time for being so open. and honest with us with everything today. And for being there. For me, as a researcher, as a student of the theater, and just as a person in general, as a friend. So yeah, yeah, thank you. Thank you so much for coming on the show today and for everything you've done for me and for this field.

And I know this will not be our last conversation. But last question, of course. Is there a place people can reach out to you and find the work that you're doing. Right now, my website is under complete reconstruction. Facebook is the best place to reach me right now. People can write me at my regular email address, which is P Robbins, N-Y at Yahoo, New York,

P-R-O-B-B-B-I-N-S-N-Y at Yahoo, New York. And I will try to get back to you in as timely manner as I can. Yes, and I'll be sure to put that in the show notes as well. But I want to wish you all the best for contact in the desert. And again, thank you. Thank you so much for coming on somewhere in the skies today. The most welcome, Ryan. Wireless can feel like a world of traps, but not with visible.

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