Somewhere in the Skies - A Return to the Alien Highway

Episode Date: May 11, 2020

On episode 160 of SOMEWHERE IN THE SKIES, Ryan welcomes Chuck Zukowski and Heather Taddy, two of the investigators on the television series, Alien Highway. In this candid conversation, they run us through the entire series and the compelling evidence they came across while investigating UFOs across the United States. From cattle mutilations to alien abductions. From underwater UFO bases to Roswell UFO wreckage left behind. And just exactly what the hell was interdimensional creature they caught on camera at Skinwalker Ranch!? This and so much more as we get the inside scoop on what didn't make it on camera, their personal thoughts on each episode, and just exactly what could be going on across the Alien Highway. You can watch the entire Alien Highway series on YouTube, Amazon Prime, and Google Play. This interview was originally live-streamed on YouTube. You can watch the entire episode at: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVBcjyGA5gI Website: www.somewhereintheskies.com Patreon: www.patreon.com/somewhereskies YouTube Channel: CLICK HERE Official Store: CLICK HERE Order Ryan's Book by CLICKING HERE Twitter: @SomewhereSkies Instagram: @SomewhereSkiesPod Watch Mysteries Decoded for free at www.CWseed.com Episode edited by Jane Palomera Moore Opening Theme Song, "Ephemeral Reign" by Per Kiilstofte SOMEWHERE IN THE SKIES is part of the eOne podcast network. To learn more, CLICK HERE Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/somewhere-in-the-skies. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

You're great at protecting your data, but lots of places could still expose you to identity theft. I thought it was safe. If that happens, LifeLock gives you a U.S.-based restoration agent who will stick by your side from start to finish. Phone calls, filing documentation, preparing insurance claims, your agent handles it all. In fact, we're so confident restoration is guaranteed. Pour your money back. Isn't it nice to have someone like that on your side? Save up to 40% your first year at LifeLock.com slash Spotify.

Terms apply. Something strange is happening on May 30th. Rogue Planet presents All the Strange 2020. A virtual online expo highlighting and celebrating UFOs, extraterrestrial life, ghosts, Bigfoot, you know, All the Strange. Join us on May 30th as we showcase a series of fun presentations delivered by a lineup of awesome humans who are fascinated by The Strange. And get this, All The Strange 2020 is a 100% free event. So jump over to All The Strange.com and register now. What's up, guys, Ryan here.

Just hopping in to let you know that this week's episode originally aired as a live somewhere in the sky's YouTube stream, which you can go watch right now on the Ryan Sprague YouTube channel. We referenced some videos and segments of the television show that my guests starred on, Alien Highway. So if you want a more visual experience and put some faces to voices, head on over to the Ryan Sprague YouTube channel. Be sure to subscribe and turn on notifications. And while you're at it, check out our new video series Case Files, where I run through some of my favorite UFO cases in less than 10 minutes.

All right, that's enough shameless plugs. Thank you so much for listening, and I hope you enjoy the show. This is Somewhere in the Skies with Ryan's Bread. What's up, saucerheads? Before we get to this week's episode, it has been far, far too long since I've shouted out to all my Patreon subscribers for their continued and new support of the show. As many of you know, somewhere in the skies is always free to consume, but it's not free to create.

So to offset costs, I've created the Patreon campaign, where you can donate whatever you feel like and whatever you think the show's worth. I offer different rewards for different levels of contributions. So to learn more, visit patreon.com slash somewhere skies. And here we go with our thank yous. To Philip P. Kristen S. Johnny C. Peter M. Michael S.

Shane H. Tor I.L. Marine E. Francine M. Russ H. Diana W. P. Chad W. Ben B. Ricardo C. Sean K.J. Megan P. Kathy M.C. Christian P. Matias L. Teresa Y. Emily H. Stephen D. Paul S. Valerie B. Christine. Christine. Scott N. Cheryl C. James M. Chris H. H. Glenn O. Josh D. Unileves. Patrick L.K.

Chris C. Gremlin 73. Jennifer G.E. Abraham E. Ed C. Violetta B. And finally, to Steve W. That was a lot. I have to do this way more often. And if I did not mention you, I am so sorry. Please reach out to me on Patreon and yell at me there. And I'll be sure to thank you on the show. And thank you to all of you for your continued support.

I truly couldn't do this show without you, especially right now, with basically the entire world shut down. So once again, to all of you and to everyone listening, thank you. Be safe, be healthy, and enjoy the show. Everyone, thank you for joining me tonight for a very special episode of Somewhere in the Skies. Now, some of you might know one of our guests from a previous episode, Heather Taddy, one of the stars of Alien Highway. But today we actually have two of the hosts of that television show on with us.

We're going to talk all about the show. what evidence they found most compelling during each investigation, what didn't make it into the episodes, which is always fun. And we're going to take listener questions too. So right now, I want to welcome my two guests, the hosts of Alien Highway. I've got Chuck Sukowski and Heather Taddy. Guys, how are you doing today? Hello. There they are. How are you doing, Heather? I haven't talked to lately. I know, man. It's been a while. Yeah, yeah, this time last year. Actually, we were done this time last year. But, yeah, last year was pretty tough. You know, we followed a storm for two months, and we were basically in the snow the whole time.

Yeah, I noticed, like, you guys looked freezing the entire time. So, so in winter you were mostly shooting? Well, actually, you know, we shot one episode in December and the rest at the beginning of the year, but we just, at the beginning of year, we just followed a storm. And kid you not, you can have, I have this, too, we could not wait for, you know, the episode we were going to shoot in California. because we thought it'd be a lot warmer. And we're on Pacific Coast Highway in Malibu, right? The beach on one side of the mountain, you know, the hills on the other. And it's sleeting on us. It's hailing.

Of course. I picked a good time. Yeah, yeah. I'm sure. We'll get to that SoCal episode, Chuck. That one's very timely with a lot of stuff going on in the UFO world now. But before we kind of, I guess, dive into the episodes, guys. I always like to give those viewers or listeners,

kind of the origin story. So we'll go with Alien Highway. How did the show come to be? And how did you guys decide what cases you were going to cover? Whichever one of you'd like to take that. Do you want to go? You want me to go? How about you go with this one,

since you were more into the development process of it? Cool. Well, Rick Sasson, the creator of the show, contacted me. Every now and then I get emails from producers. And so he contacted me. And basically, he said, you know, he's looking to try and put together something for Travel Channel. I guess they had, you know, a project open.

He said, how would you do a TV show? And they said, well, that's simple. I would do a TV show just like I would do a regular investigation. I would do it as a field investigation, you know, real investigators, real people, eyewitnesses, you know, and all their, you know, any type of evidence that they have. And as for the episodes, him and I went back and forth over episodes. And out of the eight episodes, seven of them were mine, basically. You know, the ones that I had pitched, the California one, I didn't. Only because, you know, I live in Colorado and I'm not on the beach.

But actually, four of them were actually my investigations. Right, right. And I noticed, you know, at the beginning of every episode, it had like the file that would show up and it would say CZ file number, da da da da da da da da dash da da da da da da. I love seeing that just knowing like a lot of this did come from your actual case files. Well, those file numbers, they just threw in there. Oh, yeah. My file numbers, you know, behind the camera, I have a filing cabinet and one out of the

garage. But my files are basically by name, you know, name and location, basically. if there was a number, then I would have to have some type of notebook to cipher the numbers to, you know, that's too much work. Right, right. I can imagine that would get stressful. Now, Heather, now, how did you get hooked up with a show? Now, being that you come from the world of the paranormal, we talked about this in our individual interview, but yeah, how did you come to be a part of this project? So I actually know the executive producer of Alien Highway because he was one of the executive producers for paranormal state. So randomly over the years, he's, you know, come to me for different projects.

So he came to me for this one and I was like, yeah, you know, let me get involved in this because it was so, it was so much different than doing, you know, the regular thing where I would go into clients' homes and hear all their stories and help them and try to catch evidence. So it was more of like an adventure to me. So I was like, yep, sign me up. And interestingly enough, a lot of, there were a couple story editors that worked on Alien, Highway that also worked on paranormal state. And I had never met any of them before. Meanwhile, they had seen all this, you know, they would watch hours of the footage from paranormal state of me as a college student in this club, you know, investigating these homes. So it was really cool when we go to the studios in California because we'd walk past the editing bays and you'd look in and I got

to meet, you know, these key players that made paranormal state what it was. It was just, it was really cool to have them work on this project, too. Heather, how do you approach a UFO investigation? Before we even get to what you guys did investigate, how is it different from a paranormal investigation, would you say? I mean, with the UFO investigations, you're obviously most of the the time you're outside. So you have to worry about a lot of environmental factors, such as wild animals. And I'm so used to being in a very closed, compact space in a client's home or a basement or an attic. So I'm used to, you know, a smaller area. And so that that was one of the main, main differences. But a lot of the techniques with interviewing and most of the equipment

was all, it all kind of just blended into the other investigations. So gotcha. Now, Chuck, there is another member of the investigation team who you're quite close with, I would say. How did Daniel get involved? Who's Daniel? And what makes you? you want to bring them in to do this show? Well, it's interesting because I guess, you know, for a long time now, I've been taking family members on my investigations. And, you know, they basically originally talked with my older son and talked with my daughter and talked with Daniel.

And then it was between, they decided, well, you know, they wanted kind of like two males, so they kind of decided either between my son Daniel and my son Chuck. and then Daniel's just Daniel's pretty cool he's pretty energetic and he's on top of things my son Chuck is more reserved

so I think you know out of the two they decided on Daniel because he's a go-getter and if you watch the show it was really kind of funny because you know what he was doing on the show

is exactly what he does in real life you know he gets his mindset on doing something he takes off he gets focused on it and you know there was times where where he would just split up from the group and take off on his own.

And finally, we assigned, you know, Cameron Neal to him and then put a GoPro on his chest. And a few times, you know, with him taking off on his own looking for evidence, he came across some good evidence. And we had some really positive outcomes over that. So I was really happy that he was part of the team. Yeah, I think he brought just a whole level of, for those who may not be familiar with the paranormal world or the UFO world,

that very grounded, skeptical lens that a lot of investigation actually really needs. So I guess we'll just dive in in terms of that investigation and evidence. I want to start with the Missouri Mayhem episode with you guys. This was a pretty interesting one. There was a huge, you know, a rash of sightings, a UFO flap or wave, as we call it in the UFO world. and this was part of the Piedmont Lights incident, which I'm sure a lot of our UFO crowd might know about. But yeah, could you guys maybe give us a little bit,

a little overview of what this episode was and kind of what you set out to do with it? I'll start first, and I'll only talk real short. I really feel bad about, Heather, sometimes, you know, the problem is some of these episodes were investigations that I was involved with, and so I'd go in. into them and I totally forget Dan and Heather

were there and I always be off on my own and they're just kind of like going all right all right yeah we'd be quiet so we can get a word in edgewise yeah I've been you know Piedmont was something I've worked on before and then I actually did an episode for

the science channel where I covered a little bit of Piedmont so it was kind of cool to go back there again and they were still having some activities but you know they had a big UFO flap I forgot, shoot, I forgot, it was late 70s or so, or... I think it was in 1973. Yeah.

Seventy-three, yeah. Heather would know because she was a documentary. Yeah, that's her job, yeah. Okay, yeah, that's what I do with my wife and wait. What did I say two weeks ago? I know that feeling. And so they had this big UFO flap, and then since then, there's been siding there ever since, and then Missouri is really, really hot.

And then what's even more interesting is Clearwater Lake, which is near Piedmont. When I lived in Missouri, my father and I used to fish there. My father's gone now, but when we were there at the lake, you know, brought back memories of, you know, me and my father fishing there. And at the time I didn't, you know, when I was a kid fishing there, I didn't realize, you know, exactly what happened there and the fact that, you know, eyewitnesses saw this giant craft hovering over the water, Clearwater Lake. and then shooting up out of the sky.

So it was pretty cool to go back there, Heather. Yeah, Heather, what were your thoughts on this episode? What did you find most compelling about it? Well, for me, I really liked talking to the researcher when we went to Elephant Rocks, and he had this very detailed map of all these fault lines of the area. And I really thought it was interesting that he came up with a theory that these fault lines were creating energy that were attracting these UFOs. So I don't know.

something about that that really resonated with me. I really liked that idea. And the whole investigation at Clearwater Lake, it was just, it was beautiful. And that was actually the first episode we filmed. And I think when you watch it, it seems very natural the way that we work with each other and everything. So I really like that one. And also, too, you know, we had a town's hall full of, you know, people that lived in this small town. And they're all telling us about their experiences, not realizing that the person sitting next to them has been having the same experience. They've just been all really kind of scared to talk about it.

So it was really cool to get all those people in a room and just open up and hear everyone's stories. I find that town hall sort of thing fascinating because that is when you can really kind of get the character of a town and how these events are affecting them all. And for them to all come together and all have different stories. Like, that's an investigator's dream.

You know, you don't even have to really go out and do the legwork. They're coming to you. So that was a really cool way, I think, for you guys to really get to the core of this investigation. Now, was there any sort of incidents or, I guess, pieces of evidence in this episode that really, like, really stood out to you guys? there was a there was a couple of one of explain it was really really cool but the one that really kind of threw me I don't know if it if it you know

through Heather was when we were filming there just together for the first time the executive producer from Travel Channel showed up and then she's there on side watching us and you're talking about being nervous and whether or not you're doing everything right or not and it took a little different you know after I talked with her you know to kind of

relaxed and you know not not you know because we're trying to impress this is our you know our first episode we're shooting and travel channel could could have pulled the plug any time saying yeah you know what's just not working but heather was right you know we really jelled and it came together really well even with the first episode and with the production company the um the one thing and i let Heather, you know, talk about this also. It really bloomy way was we went to a ranch and there was this kind of like a circle where a craft supposedly craft planted or something, but it's almost like a crop circle. I've seen these things before with cattle mutilations and we had a picture of it and we were able to

use like a slide picture to know exactly where the circle was after a few months because It happened in the summertime. And when I was getting some soil samples and then, but when I was walking up to check the EMF, the electromagnetic field, which I normally do, a meter was just going crazy. And I'm going, holy macro, man.

Even after, you know, what, six months or so, this place is still active. There's still energy in this circle, around the circle. And was even more cool. And he left it in the show was Jason, our cameraman, was following me. And as he got close to the edge of the circle, his camera actually reset.

Now, this is a $70,000 red camera. That's the manufacturer red. These are the same cameras that are used shooting Guardians of the Galaxy, a lot of Marvel movies. And for his camera, just to reset on itself for no reason at all, man, this is the first time it's ever happened to him. And so we kind of left, we left that in. But what didn't make it in was we had a drone, you know, shooting over the top of us when I was, when Heather and I were doing soil samples and stuff. And when the drone operator, Daniel, I think it was his name, Heather, anyway.

Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, he went to go land the drone and he was standing near the circle. They've got cameras and they have sonar on the bottom. And so when it goes to land, it can see the ground. And they have automatic landing so it doesn't crash the drone like I crashed my last drone. That's why I have this one. So Daniel was bringing the drone down and it couldn't find the ground.

It literally would stop and it couldn't find it. And, whoops, I just turned it on by accident. Pull the battery up. I don't fly away. I'll be holding it. Tragedy live on the air. And it couldn't find the ground. It couldn't land it.

It just wouldn't land. That's the safety feature so doesn't crash. So he's working with it. And finally he just grabbed it with his hand like this and pulled away. And I said, that was pretty awesome. You know, EMF, camera and the drone couldn't. you know, all three had issues with that circle. Heather, did anything really memorable stick out to you during this one?

It's definitely that story because you could see the look of shock on Jason, who was our camera operator on his face, and he's been in the business for a really long time. So to see the look of shock, like, what just happened to my camera? Like, this shouldn't have happened. That was pretty compelling to see. So, but something that was a little fun behind the scenes fact was when I dropped off the soil samples, that was at a lab in St. Louis, we were, we figured it out that we were less than a mile away

from the house where the boy that the exorcist was based on, where he lived for like during the peak of his possession in this house. And so Chuck and I were like, let's go take a drive. We have a lunch break. Let's go and check it out. So we went to look at it and it. And it was really funny because the owner walked out and she, she looked like someone that you would think would own this house. She had bright purple pink hair. She was really cool and we just pulled up Chuck's truck and we were just talking to her. And Chuck was like, you should get a Linda Blair decoration for your, for Halloween and put it on your front lawn.

Probably talking out the window or something. And that was cool about this. You know, we did some stuff on her own. We had time. We really didn't have a lot of time, you know, in between shoes because we were pretty packed. But when Heather said, hey, the Exorcist house is here and went, oh, my gosh, it is Missouri, isn't it? And she was, yeah, it's nearby. I'm going, yeah, let's do it. Absolutely. I mean, I was just talking about it just the other day on another, on another podcast saying, you know, that was just, sorry, Heather, I was talking about you.

Oh, no, you're fine. But basically said the same thing that you suggested to see it. That's one of the things I won't forget either, because that was kind of cool. And all of our trips to White Castle. Okay. You have to understand, yeah, that was true. The first time we went to White Castle was on my birthday, December 12th. And I should be at birth. I'm sorry, December. Reject that.

Engineering me. Everything's got to be numbers. Anyway, we were there shooting, and it was my birthday. And they said, well, where do you want to go? And I said, I used to live in Missouri. So I want to go to White Castle because it's been a long time. And they go, are you kidding? Really?

White Castle. I'm like, yeah. So, you know, they, production crew, both the production crew came with us, and we got an Uber with a van, and all we went to White Castle and just loaded up on White Castle is so much fun. Hey, man, you do what you got to do. I remember I went to a White Castle at 3 a.m. in the morning on the Vegas Strip. So that's when you know you've hit rock bottom, in my opinion, but it tasted so good. So, yeah, yeah, no, I'm happy to hear that. Well, we stay in Missouri, actually, for the next episode.

This one was called UFO Terror. And this was, this one was tough. This is a pretty emotional episode where you really get to see how a UFO incident or incidents affect a person. I mean, it can be sometimes for the good and sometimes really not. And it really depends on how a witness or an experience or either, you know, embraces an event or rejects it. So, yeah, would you guys maybe run us a little through UFO terror and what it was like talking to these people in this one? Okay. Basically, this was my investigation.

It came to my website, UFO nut.com. Basically, it came to my website and I'm going, wow, this is a combination of possible abduction or something and UFOs and neighbors seen them and maybe creatures and all kinds of stuff going on. And so I'm contacted my sister Debbie, who Debbie Zyglemyer, who was an investigator in Missouri. And I asked her, can you go over there and check it out for me, please? And see if there's anything to this. And she came back going, it's hot. It's really hot. And so when we talked about episodes, they said, we definitely have to do this.

Guarantee, I guarantee you're going to get some evidence. And we did. So I'll stop right there. And I'll let Heather chime in. I mean, I can come in afterwards. It was definitely, for me, it was. reminiscent of, you know, the format of a parental state episode. You know, these people were being targeted by phenomena and it's our job to go in there and, you know, find out a little bit about

their past and what they're experiencing now and kind of their mindset through this whole situation. So for me, the hit, the hypnosis session was really incredible to me because you could see Steve it, it was just like he was taken back to that experience. Like it was as if he was still a teenager. and for him to recount everything, it was incredible. And even the hypnotherapist was like, I definitely believe him. And she had had no prior knowledge to, you know, him being abducted.

So, and she didn't lead him in any way. And it was her first time doing a session like this. So that, the hypnosis session really stuck out to me. And something that didn't make the episode was in that session, he kind of recounted that this being took him to the top of this mountain and pointed out to the city lights and said to him that the city lights were bad. So we kind of connected that to where, you know, he's seeing all these lights and everything he sees. It's taking him back to this original traumatizing event. No, I mean, between the, I guess,

the three of you, Daniel included, what do you guys make of hypnosis when it comes to people claiming alien abductions or, you know, close encounter experiences? It's a very very, controversial and touchy thing. So I was really surprised to see you guys go down that route in the episode, but that's one of the only avenues we have to get these memories from people. So I'd love to know your individual thoughts on hypnosis when it comes to investigating claimed abductions. I've worked with a few hypnotherapists who do regression. And it's really interesting. The thing is, is, you really have to know whether or not the person is under. And with, you know, with this one, is a UFO terror, that would be Steve Darling.

When he was going under with this hypnotherapist, now what was kind of cool about it is this therapist has never done any alien or UFO stuff. She's basically, you know, dreams was her specialty. And when she's, the questions she was asking and some of the things, the answers and stuff. There was no way she could lead him if he wasn't, you know, under, you know, if he wasn't hypnotized, basically, because she didn't really know that much about the ophology. And so it was really cool watching that. But when we first started watching it, all three of us were kind of watching it off camera. And Daniel and I are looking at each other. And Daniel's going, yeah, I don't think so. You know, and then the more we watched, the more we realized, oh, my gosh, he really was,

took him back when he was a kid and then she brought him further or back a little bit when he's a teenager but he was still in the kid state you know he was still like eight or nine years old asking or answering the questions he stayed there even though he was answering the questions as a teenager so it was really cool to see that and i'll go let uh let uh heather chime in what do you make of regression hypnosis i mean i i would think it's pretty useful because you know you're you're tapping into your unconscious mind, which is a really, that's always been a really fascinating thing to me, you know, the subconscious mind. So you would think that it would help uncover things that you kind of, you know, put in the back of your, your memory box. So, I mean, I don't think it hurts

any kind of situation. I think in this situation, it was, it was pretty useful. And hopefully Steve kind of found some peace from being able, you know, get that out because he hadn't told, I don't think he had told anyone besides his wife about that story. Yeah, yeah, that's tough. And I've dealt with a lot of experiencers in my time. It's not easy. So, yeah, that was a pretty emotional episode, I would say. But the next one got a little dark.

And I see a lot of people here are asking about the Skinwalker episode. We'll get there. We're getting there. That was probably one of the most popular ones that a lot of fans really liked. but yeah, let's go to the next one here. We've got Murder on the Prairie. Now, Chuck, this is a topic that a lot of people know you for mutilation. And this is in your neck of the woods, Colorado.

So, yeah, maybe we could talk a little bit about what you came across, murder on the prairie this episode was called. So, yeah, could you maybe run us through a little about what this episode was about? Okay, yeah. Basically, that was another one of my investigations. Of course, this was Colorado. And probably out of all the cattle mutilation or animal mutilation investigators in U.S., there's only like top three and really top two. And that's me and Christopher O'Brien.

Linda Bowie is not really doing it anymore. So I've had a lot of experience during animal mutilation investigations. I'm not only here in Colorado, but Missouri and then New Mexico and some other places. So this was kind of interesting because. Because when I was working on a case that was in Colorado, when we were talking, when Rick, the creator's show was talking to me about, you know, what type of cases we should do and stuff. It was interesting. We were in my office right here chatting, and I got a phone call from the witness in Westcliff, Colorado,

and he'd lost another, you know, another couple of animals. And it was really, really interesting that while Rick was here, and I think, I think Neil might have been here at the time, too, and they were just shooting some extra footage, that, you know, just, just, you know, for pitching, that I actually had the witness live on my phone on the part of the pitch reel of discussing real time, the investigation and how we have to, you know, we need to go up. And then I actually took Rick up there and Rick met him and talked to people in, you know, cells. So basically that was combined with western Colorado and also combined with Trinidad where there have been animal mutilations and strange lights. And this is by 14 in, you know, Roswell and some other things. But this is one of the things that I really hold dearly to me because these are strange animal deaths. 24 hours before you see this animal's been alive, no problems at all.

And then the next day it's dead and there's no blood and there's cut marks. And the ranchers just doesn't know what the heck's going on. Some ranchers are scared. Some ranchers don't even want to talk to you because they don't know what's going on. And in some ranchers in the case that we brought on the alien highway are looking for the truth and want to get the information out there

to help other ranchers too and other people in those circumstances that see these things. So it was a, to me, it was kind of a pretty cool episode, but, you know, he hit home pretty hard. This episode is brought to you by Netflix. Most valuable promotions in Netflix are hosting a blockbuster triple headliner Saturday, May 16th. Rhonda Rousey returns to face fellow woman's MMA pioneer Gina Carrano in the main event. Plus co-main's Nate Diaz versus Mike Perry. And the best have you wait in the world, Frances Ngano versus Felipe Lins.

Watch Rhonda Rousey versus Gina Carano, live only on Netflix. Saturday, May 16th at 9 p.m. Eastern Center time, 6 p.m. Pacific time. Yeah, and I think what's important, too, for people to remember is for a lot of these ranchers, these animals are their livelihood. So if these things are mysteriously dying at an alarming rate, how are they going to make money? So I think it's really important. And it's kind of an untapped part of euphology that I don't think gets noticed that often. So I was happy to see in a quote unquote UFO show that you guys went there. So, yeah, Heather, what stuck out to you about this episode?

Well, this was definitely one of my favorite episodes. And what stuck out to me was, like, you could really feel the frustration from all the ranchers that we interviewed and all the witnesses. And we had some pretty great stories. And, you know, they all were centered around this purgatory river in this area of Colorado. So I don't know.

I just, it's amazing, too. Like, how do you not know what happens to your ancestors? animals, like the situations were so bizarre, like where does nine gallons of blood from a horse just disappear to? And when there's no signs of struggle with any of the animals, like, what's really going on? And the fact that they couldn't get answers from any of the vets or, you know, the cops don't know what to do. It's, it's just so bizarre. And it's still something that I think there's still a lot of research that needs to go into it. Right. I would have to agree. Yeah, this was, this was, it's a hard one. It's controversial, um, especially with,

you see the way that these animals were mutilated? I mean, the precision, you know, of the cut marks, the way that they were, just everything about it screams unnatural to me. Like, this wasn't just a predator who attacked another animal. So, I mean, Chuck, in terms of evidence, like the animal itself, did anything really stick out to you as we're dealing with something truly anomalous here, at least in this episode. Yeah, the problem with animal mutilations for TV shows,

is, you know, you would have to address those issues as an afterthought because they would already occur. We were really lucky with this case where, you know, we had a couple cases that I did that within a, you know, a month or so, and there was still activity there. So that's unheard of to do a TV show and be on top of an animal mutilation investigation that close. It's usually a year later or something. But what I found in the past is some of the animals,

are actually lying on a, like a crop circle. But it's not a crop circle. It's like 60 to 22 feet in diameter. It kind of resembles the same thing that we saw in Missouri, that we had issues with the EMF and the drill and the cameras and stuff. And these animals are in the middle of it. And so I've taken samples from inside to circle and outside to circle, and I've sent them to a soil analysis company that does analysis for,

she's for all four-corner states. So, you know, they're really professional. And I basically say, okay, all I want is, you know, just this sample and this sample compare them and see the difference. And it turns out that the soil inside a circle, the cations, the CECs, the soil is less soluble. The CECs have changed. The soil nutrients actually have changed. They're different than the other soil samples, the test samples. Now, this happened with at least three cases here.

I see three because I can't remember if I had three. four cases. But in every case in Colorado, it was the same. And then I did a case in Kansas City, Missouri, and we tested soil the same. And then in Georgia, the same results. Even though the Georgia soil is different

than Missouri soil, Missouri soil is different than Colorado. Missouri's more clay and I don't know about Georgia. But basically, even though those soils were different, he came with the same analysis. Now, the bottom line is is when the animal is found, it's like it hits the ground, and there's like a, almost like a crater. And sometimes the animals hit so hard that the bones actually detached inside the body,

you know, the rib cage from the backbone and stuff. And like these bones break. That doesn't happen if an animal just falls over. It happens if it's dropped. But then I learned after doing a lot of investigations. And then also law enforcement, you know, being law enforcement here in Colorado, watching, you know, clips and stuff of, of, just training clips, that, you know, if you have a suicide jumper and they hit the ground, they bounce.

And Daniel could tell you, you know, I mean, not that he's worked on him, but, you know, that's the case. And none of these animals ever showed signs of bouncing. They were just physically placed and placed so hard that sometimes they leave a crater and sometimes it, you know. So what are the evidence that we see that something, energy, in my opinion that causes this round ring is what placed the animal there. And then you have all the different cuts in them. But every case, it's always a void of blood.

And then the ranchers also see balls of light. And I'll let Heather chime in on the balls of light. Yeah, the compelling evidence from this episode was when we were behind Tom Walker's ranch near the continental divide, it was where he would see all of these lights. And Chuck and I captured a, it was like a little rink. red ball of light that would move and then it would disappear and then it would come back and then it would just disappear. And I have no idea what that was, but I'd say that was some of the most, besides the rancher's stories of the animal mutilations, that was kind of the most compelling

evidence that we actually saw on con camera. Yeah, yeah. It's really interesting when you can connect aerial phenomena with, you know, a string or pattern of these mutilations happening. You have to wonder, Like, is there an actual connection or not? It was a really interesting episode. Yeah, Chuck. It was cool having Heather there because Heather being, you know, a ghost investigator, you know, she's used to the experiences of balls of light, but they're more of orbs. In euphology, you don't use the word orbs.

You use balls of light because the balls of light are actually solid. You know, it's think of a probe like we would send out, you know, to another planet or whatever. That's what these things are. They're solid. And whatever they do, and while they're doing it, they give awful glow. And what I've learned, and I tell you, this is really crazy, and it's a crazy phenomenon. But what I've learned about these balls of light and also specific UFOs that I know are not terrestrial, meaning man-made unless they're, you know, reversed engineering, is that the lights, they don't reflect light.

There's no reflection on the ground. So the ball of life come up on a person And I've actually got pictures of this But I can't show it to you because they're minors And I don't have You know the parental Agreements but but basically A ball of life wasn't you know

And when it's in front of someone And it's bright bright bright it doesn't cast a shadow It doesn't leave anything on the person's body Same thing with UFOs When I interviewed a cop in Missouri Who saw UFO The Highland Illinois's I think it was back 2000 for a bunch of these tops,

you know, this large, large craft about, you know, foot a half or two football fields. This thing was so bright, but he could steer right into it, and it was so bright, it didn't cast a shadow, and it didn't reflect any of the decals, the reflect the decals on the squad car. So it's kind of interesting. Then again, it's kind of scary because you're looking at something,

you're going, well, this doesn't jive with anything that we have now in current, technology and what is this and I'm looking at it and just looking at me. Good, really good point. So James asks, before we move on to the next episode, hi, Heather and Chuck, do animal mutilations only occur at night? I mean, have you guys ever come across cases where this has happened during the daytime? You know, that's a really good question. The thing is about that question is, is every one of my cases are free-ranging animals. and they're not really near the ranch house.

So the rancher only knows that he saw the animals a day before and then the next day, you know, he sees him dead. There was one case that I talked with the son of the person, his dad actually saw a mutilation take place. And this was in Colorado. And I'm still trying to get a chance to talk to him, but he's told the whole family, and as far as the family's concerned, you know,

the dad doesn't lie, but he's afraid to talk about it. He's afraid to go on camera. He's afraid to talk to anybody about it because what he experienced. And that was during daytime. All the other cases, I really can't tell you because it's all afterwards. I show up and afterwards the, you know, the rancher sees him the next day. Although there are times where the ranchers have seen balls of light at night, right, in the same areas where the animals have been mutilated.

So, you know, I don't know. You know, that's a good call. Yeah. And, I mean, welcome to Uphology. Most of, you know, once a UFO event happens, it's too late, you know. I think that's the most frustrating thing about being a UFO investigator is once you're called to the scene, it's usually over already. Now, I would say your guy's show more than almost any other investigative show I've seen, you have caught things in the act, which was really interesting. And we will get to those episodes where that really amped up.

I do want to move to Opt Outside on YouTube, said the Sedona episode had absolutely stunning scenery. I would have to agree. And for those in the UFO world, a lot of people know about Sedona. This is a hotbed for UFOs. And it's just a beautiful, weird, strange place in general. So I guess, Heather, we'll start with you. What was it like going to Arizona and going to this place that a lot of? a lot of people really think is like a literal, like UFO highway, like a vortex of sorts.

It was pretty amazing. You know, Arizona has always been one place I've wanted to visit and being able to go there and go to the vortexes and just be outside, looking at the stars and just watching the sky. It was pretty incredible. And yeah, that whole episode, I mean, we got some pretty good evidence on that, on that one. And it's definitely a place that I would love to go back to. Yeah. I mean, did anything really stick out to you in terms of like what you saw there? that personally made you feel, yeah, this is definitely a special, special place. Oh, yeah. I mean, when we were at Bradshaw Ranch, for example, you know, the witness we were interviewing, right, I think it was after we had heard the sound. It sounded like someone was rattling

like a something metal, like the gate. We heard that sound and our witness immediately said she saw like a shadow go above the trees. And then, you know, shortly after that, we're just looking at the sky and we see it looked like a planet, you know, lighting up on the horizon. and it gets really bright and all of a sudden it just disappears and like our whole crew saw it. That's just one of the things we saw. How about you, Chuck? Anything really stick out to you

when it came to the Sedona episode? There's another one of my investigations where, you know, I investigated the Phoenix Lights and then not Bradshaw ramps, but Sedona and the vortex is there. But it was really exciting for me to go back and actually, you know, go to the Bradshaw Ranch and see it firsthand because that was the first time I seen it. And I actually captured something on camera.

I don't know if I think I made it on the show, you know, while we were there at night and there was a ball light that popped up. And I just happened to, you know, catch up with my camera. But it was really cool about that is there's just, you know, I was born in Arizona. I was born in South of Arizona. So it was cool to go back to Arizona and go, hey, you know, this is, this is my, you know, my home state. here. And, and, but, you know, when I left Arizona, it was like I was nine, so I didn't get a chance to do all that cool stuff.

But we covered the Phoenix Lights and when I was living, living in California at the time, I was investigating Phoenix Lights and I tracked the Phoenix Lights, right witnesses from, from Arizona. Actually, I think I'm sorry, it was Nevada, California into Arizona. Yeah, and, you know, when they actually saw them in Arizona. And so it was kind of cool to go back and talk to, you know, not only eyewitnesses, but pilots. And actually, we got to talk to a pretty cool pilot that saw a very recent, you know, UFO while he was, you know, at altitude. And was even more cool was one of my Harley riding friends out here in Colorado.

They happened to be in Arizona at the time on vacation. and they were traveling just on a freeway, and they saw everybody pull up the freeway, and they're all steering up, so they pulled over, and they looked up. And here we had a pilot that saw this thing about his airplane, and now I have my friends who saw it just by coincidence from the ground, and they could see it, so we had two different aspects of.

And this just happened just a year before, so it was really cool to share that as fairly recent evidence, especially with a commercial airline pilot. When it comes to vortex, I'd love to get both your personal thoughts on this. Do you really think there are geographical places in the world where these phenomena or these aerial anomalies can jump in and out of? I mean, we've heard so many things like the laylines or the Seven Wonders of the World being these places where stuff can hop in and out.

do you think there's any scientific basis behind any of this, whichever one of you like to take? I would like Heather go first. Sure. I mean, I think it's a pretty plausible theory. I don't really, you know, have very much of a scientific background to, like, validate it. But it makes sense that, you know, an area with such an amount of energy can get magnified and can attract disturbances like this. I think it's definitely possible. But I like exploring those and asking those questions about, you know, does it create a thinner veil?

You know, do the red rocks have something to do with the things that are happening in Arizona? I think there's a lot of things that kind of go into play that mix with the vortexes that maybe creates this energy. Yeah, I think, you know, a lot of people think that there are certain areas and there are certain elements in the earth, I guess, as it were, that let's say there is a intelligence. behind the UFOs, that they're trying to tap into those resources. So that's why we see them in these really mountainous areas or why we see them in bodies of water. Like maybe this is something they need. I don't know. I'm just spitballing.

But Chuck, what do you think? What do you make of vortexes in general? It's kind of interesting because I've always, you know, I had a fascination with vortexes for a long time. And because I've been to Sedona a few times. And, you know, it's an energy that you can't make. measure that you physically can't see and you can't measure with any type of instruments yet yet you can feel it, which is kind of really bizarre.

You know, how that works. Yeah. As a UFO investigator, I get people all the time to talk about, you know, you know, vortexes or or some type of energy columns or, you know, stuff that's happening. And from a scientific point of view, it, you know, kind of makes sense in some cases when you look at, even if you look at multidimensional universes and stuff, you know, we're still trying to figure out

wormholes and black holes and and all for all we know, the energy from a wormhole or black hole or many wormholes or something could extend out as a cone and some interesting things can happen. Like with a Bradshaw ranch, you know, the, I think

it was the wife's owner, I forget her name. Of course, Heather Pall remember. She actually, you know, besides seeing creatures and UFOs and stuff the dinosaur popped up and not only did that that happen at Brashtar Ranch but there was another case I was investigating near Sedona

that that happened also where a little boy he was just looking and they were just out on vacation and all of a sudden he saw just this whole just like playing of dinosaurs and stuff it was almost like he was watching TV and it was only for a few seconds and it was gone

so that's happened to me in Colorado at the base of very cliff dwelling. I was with my brother-in-law, and I thought I was just daydreaming, but we were in a really sacred area at the base of very cliffs. But we were on the land where they had,

they were underground, and then they came above ground before they went to the cliffs. And for a split second, and I just talked about this on the podcast, that's why I was kind of remembering that for a split second, I saw the whole village.

and I'm going, I'm looking at it. Well, that's pretty cool. But then I thought I was dayduring. And my brother-in-law Lynn was there. And I walked up and I looked at my brother-in-law Lynn and he had this kind of shocked look on his face. I'm going, what's going on? And he goes, man, I just saw a village.

I'm like, what? That's really interesting. Like, you do have to wonder, you know, are these snippets in time that are just getting, you know, mixed up? a lot of people think, I don't know, Heather, in the paranormal world. Like, when we see a ghost, it's not so much like a disembodied spirit. It's literally we're seeing a moment in time played out, not in the temporal time as we know it. So whatever that is might be just as scared and confused and surprised of seeing us as we are of them.

I don't know. I don't know. Is there anything there? Maybe I'm just crazy. Something that came to my mind when we were talking, I totally forgot about this because it didn't make the episode. but we interviewed this guy named George that one summer he was having like a barbecue in his backyard and they just looked out and they saw this giant like his backyard. He had this gorgeous view of these mountains and there was all this land and he saw this giant craft

just kind of fly by and everyone was like, what was that? And then shortly after a couple jets come by as if they're, you know, tracking this object. I don't know why that didn't make the episode. I thought it was a really intriguing story. You remember that, Chuck? Yeah, I do remember that. That was, it's kind of weird because it kind of reminded me of, well, we'll talk about Tawna Paul later. But, you know, that happens in Area 51, too, where there's a lot of people see,

go see a craft or something, you know, blink on or blink off, or they'll see chase jets. And I had a case over here in Colorado just before Christmas time where somebody had saw something up in the North. than Colorado and then they said it was awful fast and then all of a couple of jets. That was all during that big drone, you know, over by Fort Collins and stuff and over into Wyoming were all these all these drones and we still don't know who those drones belong to. I'm pretty sure it was, you know, our military kind of messing around. But it's really interesting stuff when you talk to someone and they're trying to explain what they've seen and in their mind they're like, boy,

I hope this guy doesn't think I'm crazy. My point of view is like, man, I've heard this like millions of time. Right. It's kind of fun watching the expression on face like, I wasn't crazy. I'm not crazy. I wasn't on drugs. Nothing shocks Chuck anymore. Trust me, guys. You can come to him with the weirdest stuff you want to. All right. So I want to move to California with you guys,

if that's cool. We're getting to my personal favorite episodes of the show so far. SoCal clusters. Now, all of our audience is going to be very familiar. This episode was very timely, and it ties into a lot of what's going on within the last few days of the Defense Department officially, you know, acknowledging that these UFO videos we've been seeing from the Navy are authentic. And they are still unidentified. and they are official Navy videos. So, you know, saying that they were CGIed is out of the question at this point,

saying they were conventional aircraft out. So we do live in a really interesting time now in terms of the military and UFOs. And a lot of this came from SoCal. So I would love to get your personal thoughts on this. Heather, I guess we'll start with you. What do you make of these Navy videos and the ongoing activity going on, you know, off the coast of Southern California? I mean, it's very fascinating to me because,

you know, there's really high-level pilots that have come forward, you know, talking about this. So it's like, they're not idiots. They know what they saw, you know. So it's, it's, there's just so many stories you hear. But the whole, you know, our whole episode we kind of tied in like, is the military watching these crafts or the crafts watching the military, vice versa. So I don't know. I really, that was probably one of my other favorite episodes too. Well, we do have a question that some of the viewers really want to know. The biggest mystery in the SoCal episode, what the hell was up with your hat? I have to ask.

Explain that to us. So, you know, we were going out on a boat. You know, we had a free day in L.A. So me and some of the production guys, we went to this, like, Army surplus store. And I bought, like, five different berets and all these random, like, bright colors. and then I saw this sailor hat that looked like one that I had that I forgot to pack.

So I was like, I'm going to buy this and I'm going to wear on the episode. And later on down the road, I found out that the travel channel hated that. So I got into some trouble for that, but I mean, it was fitting for the episode and it looked cool.

You know, I looked like I was right off of Sunset Strip, you know? She looked like Gilligan. But funny story, we were filming a scene on that boat. I mean, it was so windy and we were standing on the top deck of the boat. And, I mean,

the camera's right on us and all of a sudden a gust of wind just blows the hat off and the camera pans over and gets a shot of it just like floating in the ocean. I'm just like my hat. The tragedy hat story. I love it. Chuck, how about you, man? I mean, you guys came across some really interesting stuff in this episode. It's clear that, you know, the TikTok event was not the only UFO event that happened in Southdale. So what do you make of this one, man? Daniel, he actually had to go through.

training to be able to use that full mask, you know, that I was able to talk to him while he was underwater. And so it was, the training was supposed to have been done a couple of days before, but because of weather and some other things, you know, it happened that day, basically. And so he was a real trooper to jump in that water, you know, just, you know, recently with that training. But what I really liked about that episode is first off, you know, because when I lived in California, I've always known and heard about the probability that there's this, this underwater opening over by Malibu. And there's been a lot of UFOs seeing coming on, and, you know, U.S.os and stuff coming out of the water, into the water, and all along the coast. And even when I was contracting

in San Diego a few years ago, there was a siding there off of San Diego. So, The West Coast was pretty hot, so it was really cool to go back and visit that. And the best part I liked about is I had this really cool light experiment that I used for one of the Missouri shows that, you know, I had it set up on the beach, and it's 16 floodlights, and the 16 floodlights blink binary, you know, so they flash in binary code. and we actually picked up something Heather and Daniel were looking at the binoculars over in Missouri and all those lights were going off and they actually saw a light

and at first Daniel was oh no that's got to be a plane and then then it stopped and so I got to use that experiment on the boat and I kind of figured out how to do it and I took the 16 lights and I put eight on one side and eight on the other and I pointed them down

to the water and then we had lights underwater for anything that was underwater that had to be traveling or anything to try and pick up the light underwater and then and then it would see my lights. It was kind of choppy that day. It was, you know, the weather was coming in. I mean, the experiment worked, worked pretty well, but the whole time Daniel was underwater, you know, he was being thrashed back and forth under the boat and further down. But while he was down there, you know, he saw something. He saw it light. Yeah.

And it was, but was way cool. It was when we, me, Daniel and Heather are with production and we're going over the, the audio that the cameraman underwater, too, picked up this really cool sound. And so we brought a marine biologist in.

And, you know, when I listened to it, I thought maybe it was a whale. And then she called listen to, she goes, well, it kind of sounds like maybe a whale.

And she listened. She goes, no, that's mechanical. Mechanical. That was awesome. So we picked up something underwater that could have been a summary, could have been something else. But these things where we actually picked up relevance. Right. And I think, again, this is what set the show apart is. You guys were innovative in terms of your investigations using some of the most high-tech stuff out there, which you don't see often.

You know, you just see someone shining a flashlight. light in the sky thinking they're going to vector in a UFO. But you guys actually like, you went all out for this. In this episode, particularly, in terms of the underwater aspect, it really reminds me of the testimony of commander David Fraiber, who saw the Tick-Tac thing. I mean, he said when this thing dropped down to the ocean, he saw a massive object below the water, you know, sort of turning up the water, and that it was 10 times as big as the Tick-Tac itself. So, I mean, is it possible that these things in the sky are actually coming from beneath the ocean? Maybe that is something you guys came across when you're there.

I don't know. Well, I mean, you know, the Earth's 70% of the Earth is water. Yeah. And so, yeah, that's always been. That's the other thing, too, is every one of the cases with animal mutilations and balls of light and even UFOs, not every one of them, but, you know, a vast majority of the UFOs and balls of light are seen near water. So there is some type of connection between water and the UFOs and the balls of lights. Maybe it's hydrogen.

It can't be oxygen because we got plenty of that. So maybe it's hydrogen or something or maybe they're just drinking it. But the thing is, is, you know, a matter of fact, I mean, hell, the Pentagon just came out just recently with those same videos you were talking about. I said, oh, yeah, by the way, yeah, they were real. Old news. I know. Do you're about two years late on that one. Hey, I guess we can be happy that they're at least officially acknowledging it now.

But yeah, I think they're backtracking a lot. I think the real work is being done by independent investigators and researchers. So, no, that was one of my favorites. I do want to move on to the next one. Now, Storm Area 51 was a big thing last year. everyone wanted to see those aliens at the base. I went out there. I'm not going to lie, I was out there weeks before Storm Area 51.

I'm always early for everything. I was a pre-me baby. So I did miss the actual event, but let's talk about escape from Area 51. Now, I know, Chuck, that you had an informant who gave you news that there was possibly something that got out of Area 50. Can you explain this to me, man? Well, it's not a new story to me because I've known about that particular story. Matter of fact, the movie Paul,

if anybody's familiar with the movie Paul, the comedy about the alien that escapes from Air 51, that's basically based on that story. And I've been to Area 50, not I haven't been to Area 51, but I've been, you know, too close to the Westgate. And when I lived in California, you know, I was one of the,

the first four people that hiked at Toppeakaboo Peak to see Area 51 off a distance just after Freedom Ridge was taken. So it's been really interesting to me. But we had heard a story that, you know, EBE, extraterrestrial biological entity, you know, they call, that was his nickname EBE, had escaped or from Area 51, but later found out that basically it was somewhat, you know, people helped them escape. And it's a really, really cool story. cover too much of the story itself, but people in Tonapaw, which is just, you know, outside of Area 51

where the proving grounds is, you know, they're still seeing creatures and stuff. But, and we actually got to, you know, there was someone picked up this thing going across, you know, the screen on his dash camp, and that was in the, in the show. But it was really cool to go back and then talk to Tonapal, or the people in Tonopal. And the story itself is this way cool where, you know, you have, someone who, you know, helped this alien escape. And then, gosh, I've started to remember that bar. The Tjolapal Liquor Company? Yeah, the bar that was closed that we were at.

Anyway. Yeah. I don't remember. Oh, that was in Warm Springs, right? Yeah, there's a bar in Warm Springs, yeah. Yeah. So they, they, so you had some. The story goes that you had someone from Area 51 and Insider helped an alien escape,

and they're in their vehicle, and they drive to this intersection, and Warm Springs is right there, and the bar is right there, and that was the trade-off area. And then the alien was moved from one vehicle to the other, and then the other vehicles started taking off in another direction. But they were at the bar long enough that the people at the bar actually saw the alien, and there was a picture of it at one time a photograph of the darn thing

that was hanging in a bar. But they just, you know, yeah, so I guess there's no news to them. Owls are somehow connected to UFOs. I don't say that lightly. After over a decade of obsessive investigation, I am convinced of this connection. As strange as it may seem,

people are seeing owls in the highly charged moments of a UFO sighting and within the challenging memories of UFO abduction. This mystery has been the focus of my research. My name is Mike Cleland, and I have explored these connections in my book, The Messengers. At its core, this book is simply a collection of stories, and each is a remarkable real-life experience. The Messengers is also my own story of how owls played a role in my life.

The Messengers is the first in a trilogy of books. All my books are available on Amazon, in paperback, e-book, and very soon as audiobooks. And then the story goes, that as the alien was escaping in the new car, that they were overcome by MPs or special forces or whoever, anyway, whoever did. And there was a firefight and the alien escaped. And then the story goes further. But not as far as I got. Now, with the informant, the informant said that a rancher had seen the alien took a shot at it,

and then the alien was buried. Now, I know from a UFO, as a UFO investigator, that there's no way in hell that, you know, that he's going to bury an alien and the army is just going to let that, you know, be there. No, it's not the case as far as I'm concerned, that if there was a firefight there and the alien took off that they were pursuing it just like they found the debris of Roswell 47, they pursued it until they found it all. They would be pursuing that too.

So if the alien was shot, then the military grabbed him. But the thing is, is what we were looking for, and Daniel and Heather found it, was evidence that the military was there, you know, like maybe a quick Bivlack or something. And that's what we found with the metal detectors. and some of it was just barely hidden in the ground too.

So we definitely knew that the coordinates that the informant gave me, that that was where we found evidence that the military was there. And the evidence seemed pretty old, you know, that it would date back 20-some years that, you know, wouldn't have really happen. Yeah, this is one of our commenters pointed this out. This is one of the episodes, too, one of a few. where you guys had some people following you, possibly. Now, are we talking men in black?

What was going on with these unmarked cars that seem to be trailing you guys on a few of these investigations? Or what are your theories, I should say? It wouldn't be the first time that UFO investigators have been trailed. I've been trailed before. My sister's been trailed. and the vehicles that came up to us in Kona Pau, I later saw one of the vehicles, the air base where we were at,

we had permit to be there and it was vacant, but there was a part of the air base. There was still a small structure there that it ran a small airport. And I saw one of the vehicles there later on. And I was just thinking, well, maybe it's just, you know, security for them or something. but was really interesting, though, it was a black SUV SUV suburban, and we had one too.

And after it aired, I got this email from this lady going, you know, shenanigans, shenanigans. You guys did it. No, actually, there was another black s suburban. There's only one black SUV in the world. Black suburban in the world. There was another one over there. And I personally think that it was the security

Because I mean we had to get a permit This was a former military base I think that they just were curious about what we were doing But when we pointed the cameras around towards them They took off so I don't know But this is it the first time Yeah it was interesting Now Heather I correct me if I'm wrong

Was this the episode where You got to sort of show off your paranormal investigation chops Is this the one where you went into the house So we were at the Tonapaw test range, which is considered to be, you know, people know it as Area 52 because it's considered to be the jinx field because a lot of, a lot of like aircraft training accidents had happened where there was one incident where 200 people died. So you see, we're on this, you know, we're in the desert and you see this huge airport hangar. And that's one of the places where I was like, okay, guys, I need to go in there. It has a keep out sign. Look at it.

There has to be some crazy stuff that has happened. happening here. So you see me going in there and just kind of going in and out of the little rooms. And I find this one room that's, you know, of course, the first one I want to go into is the one that's boarded up because I think there has to be something good in there. So I go in and, you know, it's just kind of me exploring what seems to be somebody's drug den or something. But yeah, that, that was interesting. But I had my fleer and I was kind of looking around. I didn't really get, in terms of paranormal activity, I didn't really get too much in that area. But the whole area, overall was pretty creepy.

Right. And I mean, wasn't this where Daniel also either saw or possibly heard some sort of creature? I think he was looking, wasn't he looking down into some, it was like a body of water. Yeah, it was like almost like a dam of some sort. Yeah. You heard something down there. And then that was the episode too that, and I'd have to be honest with you. So, you know, we had a showrunner and we had a director. And the director was with us, Mitch. And then a showrunner was off doing a 10-100, basically.

And this is a night, and we're inside this impression, this large impression of the ground where all these openings are. I mean, there was an underground facility there and they were digging it out. There's a lot of places for something to hide there. And so dad's got the flare and I'm with them. And around this dirt burn, we see this kind of image come out on us. And we go, what the hell is that? Right.

Well, no, that's got to be so-and-so, you know, doing his business. And then we hear his voice off at a distance to him and right. So we just start out running. We're trying to chase it down. and then it must have scurried behind that dirt mound. And there was a lot of, I don't want to say, mines or caves or anything. They're not really caves with their underground facilities

that they were digging out. So there's a lot of places for something to hide there. And that was pretty cool because we captured it on Flur. And my first thought was, you know, it's one of the production team, but it definitely wasn't. Because, you know, there was only a couple of us down there and we found out where the guy was when we yelled at it. So that was interesting.

That was like, what was that? You know, was it that same creature that someone had filmed on their dash cam? Now, just to tell everybody out there that's watching this, get a dash cam. You'd be surprised. You know, you ever watch these shows where people go, you know, a big foot ran across my truck? Well, you know, if you had a dash cam, you would have a cop that. Problem solved, yeah. As soon as dash cams came out, I always had one in my vehicle.

If you're going to do any type of investigations at all, going any place where there's any type of paranormal activity outdoors, get yourself, you know, they're very cheap now. Get yourself a dash cam that runs 24-7, and you'd be surprised you might catch something. Yeah, I couldn't agree with you more. And, you know, you guys weren't able to catch it that time, but maybe it's still out there, if it is out there.

and I just hope it's safe. You know, I hope it's keeping a six-foot distance from everyone right now as well. All right, we're moving to my top two favorite episodes. This next one is near and dear to my heart, Roswell, New Mexico. I've personally investigated this case. I've shared many a notes with Heather about what we found on our investigation, what you guys found. And it's pretty interesting, Chuck.

Now, this is a part of the story that not. Not a lot of people have ever heard about. And that's, everyone knows about the crashed craft, the military cover up, whatever the wreckage was shipped off to Wright Patterson, Area 51, wherever, whatever base you want to say, it's at now. But a lot of people don't think about the pieces that hundreds of army or military people who are out there on the crash site, picking piece after piece up off the ground. maybe something got into someone's pocket accidentally. So when it comes to this, I was really, really impressed with this map that was given to you, where possibly some of the wreckage from the Roswell UFO crash,

where it may still be housed. So yeah, can you tell us a little about how you came to find this big development in the Roswell case first and foremost? Roswell's like the very first type of investigation I started doing when I got involved in Uphology and when I lived in California anytime he went on investigating or anytime we went on on any type of family trip you know vacation there was always by way of Roswell I mean you could ask Daniel that my kids or my wife and so I learned from a very you know long time ago all the key players, Walter Hodd and Glenn Dennis and then got to meet the investigators there.

And so I got involved in investigating the debris site. Now, for people who don't really understand what happened out there is what we think what happened is there was two craft that were next to each other. There were a thunderstorm going on that night. They were flying over Roswell. Roswell Army Air Force Base, our, I think it was called us, Walker Base at the time, was our only strategic air command base. So it was a pretty popular base. Matter of fact, that's where the crew of the NOLA Gay train. So that's kind of how sophisticated that base was.

So these two UFOs are flying over the base. There's a thunderstorm going on, horrific thunderstorm going on, and either they collide or something. There's theory to that. they were hit by direct beam radars because back in the day, direct beam radar is no different than our microwave radar. And if you want to see an object off the distance, you just turn up the juice.

So, you know, they were being triangulated by three different radar stations. The juice was turned up to try and focus on a thunderstorm and sliding strike. Anyway, one went down to planes of St. Augustine and one over by Corona and Roswell. And it was a skip. That's what the debris side is.

It came down, skipped. And as it's skipping, about three miles, it was turning a bit, and there was a hole in the side, and an alien or two fell out with some debris, and then 17 miles later, it sort of impacted over by the, I just drew a blank on the mountains, but anyway, that's where Boy Scout Mountain is. And so we know there was debris everywhere,

and the military picked up the debris at the debris site, and then there was a second site where there was debris, and this is where we think the ranchers had found it. Now, my sister Debbie and I had gone out there a few times, and we actually dressed up one time as geologists asking the locals there where, you know, were there sinkholes or caves or anything like that? Because that story's been around for a while through locals. There's not a lot of it's been publicized, but, you know, if you're an investigator, you know, talk to the locals, they all talk about it. And so that's what we were trying to do. That was a few years ago.

So it was kind of cool when I was able to name. mail it down. We had a map that we got from an informant, and then we tested that map against expertise with Don Schmidt, who I've known for a long time, who was, you know, Roswell investigator, researcher, and he was actually trained under Jay Allen Heinex, so, you know, he's a heck of a guy. So we actually brought him in tune. He said, well, you know, I'll tell you, that map's coming, you know, but you should look here. And I didn't heard about both places. I've never seen the map before. I knew that there was something out there. So it was really cool to go there and try and look for a cave or something. And then when we got pinpointed back

closer, which was about three miles away from the debris site, which makes sense from the eyewitness that we had interviewed, we had interviewed Fawn Fritz, who was the granddaughter of MacBrasil, was the one that told him. was about that Pacific site too. And so way cool. And, you know, what was interesting about that was we knew there were caves there. When we got there, unfortunately, the, you know, the person who said that there was a cave there for us to investigate the cave that, you know, they used explosions and dynamite and dynamite of the entrance. And then so we were looking, we knew that that whole place had caves.

and Daniel knocked it out of the park on that one. You know, Heather and I are, you know, we're investigating these two openings that were blocked, you know, cave openings that were blocked. And Daniel took off with Neil, the cameraman, like he always does. And he starts showing, hey, you know, anyway. And sure enough, you know, he found an opening, he found a cave. And that would make sense. From what the witness described, the cave was pretty large.

You wouldn't hide Roswell DeBring something that. that was obvious. You were invited in something that was less obvious, like a smaller cave opening. And that was the, we were at the right place. And it was just like, oh my gosh,

history, all this is coming back at once right at us. Right. And I mean, when you guys did find the opening, that's when, you know, it was time to really try to focus on,

well, let's try to see what's down there. And this is kind of where, you know, the drama of the episode hits. And I know a lot of people probably watching this, including myself, were wondering, you know, you guys kind of got stymied on your investigation by the owners of the property. They didn't want you there any longer or digging or anything. So, yeah, what was that like, that whole experience?

You're there. You have, you found something that could be, you know, history changing. And then, boom, no, sorry, you got to go. What was that like? Well, I'll let Heather take this one. It was a total lead down. I mean, we got so far. And this guy, right off the bat, there was just something off about him because he's like, you know, he's real excited for us to be there and try to find this cave.

Yet at the same time, he keeps talking about how his family wants it to remain a secret and how, you know, growing up his grandma always told him not to go near this one area because they figured it was where this debris was hidden. So it really sucked to like at the end when we're finally like realizing we really found a case. cave, we can't go any further. You know, he comes rolling in and says, you know, we have to stop. We have to think about my family and we don't want you to go any further. So it was a bummer. But, I mean, it was an amazing experience. That's one, we definitely, it would be amazing to go back to and actually just dig up

up his whole property and see what we find. Right. I mean, is that a possibility? Or is this it? Are we done at this area where wreckage might possibly be? No, no, not at all. Because what it was, and it was a little more dramatic on TV that really happened. But I think what was going on was if we found debris, what would that mean to the people, you know, living there?

And I can't tell you whether or not it's a monetary type of thing. Like, oh, I got alien debris because there's, you know, there's a lot of organizations out there that will pay a million, two million dollars for, you know, absolute proof of a flying craft, you know, UFO or flying saucer. whatever. Or there's also cases where if you do find something, the men and black show up. I don't know what the men of black. I mean, there's always kind of different aspects of men of black are the aliens or other, you know, or do they work for the government? I think they more work for the government. There may be a combination of them. Yeah. But still, they have, you know, people have been visited by these, you know, the guy that I talked about earlier that had, you know, they actually had evidence of a daylight

cattle mutilation, his house was broken into the next day and things were stolen including the camera and it was ransacked. So somebody was monitoring that and the fact that he monitored that. That's why he doesn't want to talk about it. So this is the case with that rancher there too.

If we find something, what does that mean for them? What's going to happen? And so I think after talking to the family that the decision was let's hold off a bit. And I talked to him afterwards Daniel and Heather was with us also. And he basically said, you know, he gave us permission to come back.

Because if we come back again, we weren't really prepared because we were prepared to go into a cave. You know, Dan and I had, you know, had the gear and Daniel was going to go in and, you know, and, you know, I was going to, you know, hold the rope. I'm not going in there. Hold my beer, dad. Hold my rope. Oh, I mean, you know, he's more fit than I am. But we realized that we just didn't have the gear to do that.

And we were already at the end of that shoot. And so we did get permission if we wanted to to come back. And this time we would come back, you know, with proper gear, some big machinery and actually get in there. Not what didn't make the show because everybody had stopped. I don't know if you can see the hole off from the background over here. and then that's how Daniel found it originally and then we were able to dig it out further and when we looked inside and had a GoPro in there

and stuck Heather's head inside there and she went it went way back and we knew that that was there's a big cave complex there and so if it wasn't that hole there's plenty other holes around there but the thing was it's so production left in that blackest suburban

and then my trucks parked there I had around 1,500 rebels, so it's a fairly heavy truck, so it's sitting there. And I'm throwing gear in the back. And just after the suburban left, as I walked open the door of the driver's door, my whole body lifted like this. I went up and down on the ground. I'm standing on the ground, and I got lifted up off the ground and back on the ground. The ground actually moved, and my heart just kind of stopped there,

going sinkhole was the first thing I was thinking of. I'm like, oh, my God, we're going to drop into it. the sinkhole. And you can ask Heather that, you know, Dad, because here, if they saw this like, Chuck, look on my face when what's wrong. I'm going, I just got lifted off the ground when the suburban lift. That means it's hollow underneath, a lot hollow. And so I carefully got, you know, in the truck and we backed out of there.

And, man, I tell you, so when we go back, depending on the type of, if we go back, the type of equipment we bring, we have to make sure it's not too heavy. Yes. Yeah, this is by far one of my favorite episodes. Just, again, this is the case, the seminal case in UFO history. So the fact that you even got to be where a UFO possibly crashed and was recovered, that's a powerful thing. I know when I stepped foot on the supposed crash site, I mean, just like decades of history just started flooding through me. So that was really cool.

Heather, what did you make? I mean, being a paranormal investigator, you now. were like thrown into uh thrown in with the wolves here investigating the biggest UFO case of all time so like any pressure or like what'd you go and thinking of the whole rotswell oh my god i mean it it was completely amazing you know and from the start reading about it and researching about it i definitely agree that it you know there were a lot of things covered up um as you guys probably agree too there's a lot of unanswered questions so going into this for me it was amazing to interview one of the proctors and get confirmation that, you know, they didn't keep debris because that was

a rumor going around, you know, that they, they were hiding debris. So it was just really cool to go to the debris site and actually stand there with the proctors and just see them looking around and taking it all in. And it was, it was incredible. I remember like picking up rocks and being like, it was rock. Yeah. It was incredible. Like, not many people can say they get to go to the debris site. And it was funny because I was going through one of my recorders, and I was transcribing the Sandy Proctor interview, and I left the recorder on when we were in your truck, Chuck, and we were going to the debris site trying to find it. And it's just really funny hearing us talk because I'm like, wait, I don't see anything because I was assuming there was going to be like a little

pipe marker where the debris site was. And Chuck, you just go, what do you think we're going to see like a crashed UFO? And we just start laughing. Well, it was really cool because my sister and now years ago try to talk to D. Proctor, his older brother. And when we got to that area where Sandy Proctor lives, that's where D lives, or lived, there was these big signs that says, you know, trespassers will be shot. And he was a pretty reserved guy back in the day, so we didn't get a chance to actually meet D. So it was a real pleasure for me to meet Sandy. Now, you know, an earlier TV show I did for the sci-fi channel,

My sister and I actually found a piece of debris at the debris site. We were doing an archaeology dig there back in 2000. And I had that debris analyzed under electron scanning microscope. This is probably about 10 microns diameter. So this thing was a little of silicon alloy. And it was like a little explosion type of holes in it and stuff when we looked at it under electron scanning microscope. And it was trace elements of titanium a little bit here and a little bit there. And that was really cool.

And so, you know, I've been around that whole area, and this thing was analyzed actually by Bass, by Bigelow Aerospace. Within the first week that they analyzed it, they said it was an unknown polymer based on the catalog of polymers in their lap. Doesn't mean it's unknown to the planet. It just means it was unknown to the most popular polymers. And I said, well, what's next? They said, well, Isoapropanalysis, and that's the last I ever heard of it. Bigelow. A year later they got back in and said, oh, it was nothing. Of course, we know about Bigelow being part of the Pentagon and being, you know, being funded and part of the Pentagon.

And that's about that same time he was being funded. So it was interesting now, now that I know what was going on at the time. I thought, what the heck is he doing? So we had also heard about that story where that debris was. So it was actually cool to go back to or go to that side because I never got an opportunity to visit that rent because I didn't exactly know where it was. Yeah, yeah, I think it was, again, these television shows, they provide opportunities for investigators to have resources they might not usually have. So, I mean, in one respect, yeah, it's television, it's entertainment, but in another respect, it's really cool to have that opportunity. I mean, I was able to get possible wreckage from the debris site analyzed at an aerospace lab. that's something that I never in my wildest dreams thought I would be somewhat a part of.

And just like you, we had really interesting results when it came to what this gentleman brought to us. So I think it's really cool that you guys got to visit one of the most elusive UFO cases of all time. And you also got to tackle one of the most mysterious places of all time. you did mention Bob Bigelow. So we're going strong. We're going to end with what actually was your premiere episode. I think was a really smart thing to do on the network's decision to do that is, boom, we're going to Skinwalker Ranch.

So this is a hot, hot topic right now, you know, in terms of everything, bass and ATIP and some of the money that was used for the Secret Pentagon UFO program, actually most of it was given to, Bigelow to investigate Skinwalker Ranch. So Heather, had you heard of this place? What did you make of Skinwalker Ranch before going there? And what were your expectations, I guess, going to the ranch? I mean, going into this, I knew that this was regarded as a true hotspot for not only UFO activity, but paranormal activity that, you know, scientists couldn't even really explain. So I knew going into it, it was going to be big. I wish we could have got behind that gate, though. But yeah, it's not amazing evidence.

we didn't have to. Again, to be, you know, a person like me that's always read about these places, to be able to go there, you never imagine that that's going to happen, and then you get to go. And it was incredible. And it's, you know, it's all documented on television, so I can always revisit it. That's such a good point. It's immortal at this point. Chuck, how about you, man? Had you ever been out to the area of the ranch before in your past investigations? And, yeah, what was it like going there? I'm in that area, but I've never been at the ranch because I've done some investigation. from Colorado into Utah and then over by Vernal, but not actually where we were.

And so it was a really plus for me. What was cool about that is this was one of the ones that I brought to the attention of Rick. I said, because where do you want to go? And I said, well, I've been getting contacts from a couple of different people that there's stuff going on outside the Skinwalker Ranch. You don't have to be at the ranch. You know, sort of like, you know, San Luis Valley, you know, Blanca Peak is where, you know, the first horse mutilation, you know, snippy the horse. But you don't have to be at Blanca Peak.

The whole San Luis Valley is hot. Same thing over there. You don't have to be at the ranch because there's a lot of stuff happening out the ranch, you know, outside within 10, 15, 20 miles outside the ranch. The whole place is hot. And so that was one of the things I said, I don't want to actually go into the ranch. Don't even worry about that. but there's so much going outside the ranch that I know we're going to come up with something.

And we did. A lot of legends say that there are these huge dog-like beasts out there, and you guys might have captured it. So what did you think when you first saw that video for the first time? Well, there's a little bit of a backstory first. Now, I have a couple of Moultrie game cameras, and just by talking to hunters, and I decided to buy mulchings as a better camera,

and that's what I was using. There was a case in Missouri where two of our cameras, two of my cameras were messed with. And anyway, Heather knows all about this, but the first thing I did is I blamed the production company because I thought, okay, they're just trying to manipulate evidence to make a good TV show. Okay, this was our first episode, okay,

or one of our first episodes. So I'm still trying to fill out. the whole experience of having, you know, being on a TV show. So that wasn't the case, you know, after we, you know, we figured out, you know, the production crew was anywhere near it. Then we thought, okay, maybe it was a witness or whatever. So it turns out we don't know what happened and who mess with our cameras, but there was definitely footprints there.

The thing was, so since then, any time that Daniel Lai would place a camera, we tied it in a certain way. We put the batteries in a certain way that we knew that if anybody messed with the camera that we would have evidence, that we knew it. And then all the evidence that was on the camera would just be nothing, right? I would have to disregard it as a UFO investigator

because that's what I do. Now, this case, I'm there watching this, and I see that. And if you almost, I don't know if you can almost see... Go back, go back, go back, go back. And then I don't know, maybe a little bit later on. I'm kind of like looking at the off of the distance a little bit.

Well, if you watch that clip, it's because I'm thinking I don't believe what I just saw. Someone effed with our cameras. Production company got in there and effed with it. And I'm thinking through my mind, okay, how could they have done it? How could they do it? Well, no one, Daniel and I picked up the camera that morning, we checked the camera

to see whether or not. We looked at the camera, and we placed it there, and everything that we placed there was us. Nothing was manipulated on the camera. Now I got thinking, oh, wait, the camera was in my truck. And then Neil just not long before that, hey, do you have that SD card? And so I gave them the SD card. There's no way that production could have manipulated that CG did or anything.

But I'm running it all through my head when I'm watching this going, I can't be real. That can't be real. And even now when I'm watching this, I get goose pimples because it's like, that's relevant. That is absolute real evidence. And when people watch that, it's just like, oh, well, you know, they manipulate it. No, we didn't manipulate it. And I keep going through our mind each time how that could have been manipulated. And I can't come up with a reason.

So I'm trying to debunk that. Oh, you know, I've been still trying to debunk that evidence. And I can't. There's no way. Yeah. I mean, it literally looks like this thing appeared out of thin air, materialized out of nowhere. I mean, Heather, what did you make of this when you first saw it? I mean, when we first saw it, I was like, what?

Like, there's no way. Because, first of all, what the heck is it? Second of all, you know, you see clearly on the camera, and they didn't even show all the footage, but you can see where if a car or a truck goes by, you can see where it's triggered. And, you know, we had, we had, like, what, the camera had, like, 168 hits or something for one of the whole cameras. So we had a lot of footage of just cars going by. And you can see none of them just appeared in the middle of the screen. like this

footage. So it's still like I don't know if we'll ever really be able to explain it. Yeah. Well, I mean, and that's,

and I've used these military cameras a lot. I started all with Bushnell and I'm not blaming Bushnell at all. I just went to a higher

level camera and like I just ordered another higher level camera earlier this year. I haven't got it yet. Don't tell my wife. But the thing is

is I've used them. I've used them. them in bigfoot investigations, I've used them in cattle utilization investigations, and every single time you can see the animal come and see and leave seen or come and see and stay there or whatever. Nothing ever just appears. And out of, and I've been using these for years, started off with Bushnell, but I've been using things for years and I've never, ever, ever experienced that. That's why the first thing in my, you know, my mind, my first thought was we're getting left with. someone's screwing with this. And then I keep even without the production company knowing,

I took the footage that night on my computer, and I ran it slide by slide by slide by slide to see if even after I figured out there was no way they could have done it. Still that night, I went through each slide to see if the snow coming down, if there was a little, you know, like a splice or something in there, and there wasn't. And I'm like, my God. I mean, this is crazy.

Even to this day, like I'm going, we captured a real phenomenal. Yeah, you captured that. And you, I mean, there were random gunshots you guys heard throughout the evening. There was also what one of the other big studying pieces of video evidence I think you came across was the, these beams of light coming up over the mountain range. This was really interesting. So I guess, Heather, we'll start with you. what did you make of these lights that you guys saw over the mountain range? Man, I mean, you can tell by my reaction that I was just so excited because, you know,

we're standing there and you can just see a faraway shadow of Dan up on this mountain. And you're wondering, like, you know, what's he doing up there? And then all of a sudden, you just see the whole sky just light up and pulsate orange. And then above it, you can see this white, and it almost looks like a doorway, like a white beam. And it's the thing that for decades people have been seeing. And to think that we actually saw it, and it happened numerous times. And we're all just saying, like, what in the world is going on? Where are we?

I wrote a little song to remind you, choice hotels, get you more of the experiences you value. The Canberia Hotels got it all. A rooftop ball, have a ball. Bring a date, your squad, or even your mom. Book direct at choiceotels.com. Right. And I know, you know, Daniel got so excited. he freaking booked it to try to get up the mountain rage to see what was on the other side.

Because as a viewer, that's immediately where mine went. What's on the other side? Is there like a huge building or a something? But I mean, you guys were in the middle of nowhere. So is that something we can easily push away that that's what it was? Like lights coming from a building of any sort of? No, not at all. And I kind of give you a little bit of a backstory to this.

Okay. Cool. the directors were basically saying the show owner saying, okay, we have to, you know, Travel Channel told us that we have to do at least a couple night investigations, even though it's minus 10 degrees. I was like, that's okay. We're investigators, that's what we do.

And so we were supposed to do a night investigation at the crossroads where this was seen, right? And I'm thinking, no, because we interviewed, viewed a couple of people at the graveyard that had a paranormal experience, a creature experience, and there was all kinds of stuff happening there. And as it turns out, Skinwalker Ranch is here, the graveyard is here, the crossroads is over here. So this is the middle. If something's going back and forth, or we might capture it there.

And we went back and forth and back and forth, and Daniel and I, you know, we stuck to our guns, so to speak. We didn't pull any guns on them. We just sucked our guns and we said, no, no, we need to be at the cemetery. I just have this feeling that something's going to happen there that night. And my gosh, you know, we were there and kudos to the production crew, because once we got through, they kind of figured out what we're going to do. I mean, Heather, of course, I mean, we picked up EVPs in a graveyard.

Boy, that's Heather's area. to sound person with her, you know, with his high-tech stuff to see if you could pick up anything. I'm over by the fence where something came through the fence based on eye witnesses. We put Daniel up on the ridge with Neil again, poor Neil. And in case anything happens, he's our lookout. He's going to see if anything's coming in towards us. And as it turns out, everything was happening. You know, he saw a shadow or some type of figure.

you're coming in. I'm talking to, you know, over the two-way, because I don't know, that could be a guy. I don't know. Maybe, I don't know. It's coming in. And then, of course, Neil's got a really expensive camera. Daniel's using my $500 night vision camera, right? So, you know, Neil really captured what was going on.

And then the light coming up. And we know, we know that that area, that they, not that general area, but way off the distance miles away off the distance that they're drilling oil, and sometimes they have a methanol burst. And so they burn no methanol, and that glows. And that's the first thing that I thought in my mind. But I knew that area was where the Skinwalker Ranch was, and we were just there the day before, the day before that, and there was no oil drilling around that area. But it was the beam of light that was coming up through that.

Now, if it was just blowing off some methane, you wouldn't have that beam of light. And I'm looking at it. And I'm talking to Heather, and she's looking at it. And everybody sees it. And it's like, what the heck is that? It doesn't make sense. All of a sudden, you know, my debunking tools, I can't debunk it because that's not blown off methane. Or you wouldn't have that beam of light.

What the hell's going on? Yeah. There's kind of like words. When you're in a situation like that, you're immediately thrilled. But at the same time, there's no words. Like, there's nothing. You're just like, what am I seeing? Like, it was bizarre.

And also to mention, you, we forgot to include that I was standing there with this animal collar. And it was so loud that Dan was up on this mountain top. And he could hear it. And it was echoing off the mountain. He thought it was like right behind him. So I had to turn it down. But, I mean, I remember doing that right. before we heard the growl picked up in the microphone.

The wolf coming in could have been answering to your animal. Exactly, yeah. Yeah, yeah, you became the prank. Yeah, right. I always get myself in this situation. Yeah, right. But as investigators, which is really cool, because, you know, you watch these shows on TV, and they see something,

and they go, UFO, or that's a ghost, or this is that, or that is that, you know. And without sitting there thinking, you're trying to debunk what they're thinking. You're trying to explain. You're trying to figure out. And I think at that particular time, especially with the wolf, and then even the figure we saw Tonapaw, the lights we saw Missouri, that's all real-time stuff happening to us. And it's like we're trying to figure out what it is. We're on camera. We're both professional investigators.

We want to be the first to say, no, that's not what we're. think it is. Now, we did debunk a couple of lights in Missouri that, that, you know, that the witness was seeing, that they were ports lights off the distance, but it turned out that he had, you know, PTSD and everything was happening to him. But when you get any situations, you're trying to debunk it and like what Heather's saying, we're just like, you know, I'm trying to figure out what the heck's going on. And the best part is, is we're filming it, you know. Multiple cameras, too. It's great. You know, we've got two cameras on it, you know, besides, well, three, including mine, but, you know, and then Daniel's up on the ridge, which is perfect, because I'm talking with Daniel going, Dan, Dan, get over to find out where that light's coming from.

And he's high tailing it at night, late at night, running on top of a ridge. Crazy, man, has no idea what he's going to see on the other side. Trying to find out what it is. And then the light goes out. Yeah. Yeah. And methane burnoffs glow for a long, long time. Yeah. And they're just not. So we know something's going on there. And not only at the ranch, but outside the ranch too. And, oh, yeah, I'm the first one, you know, that wants to go back. After, I mean, you can ask Heather a question, but I have a follow-up that I'd like to, a backstory.

But I don't want to take Heather's time. Oh, in terms of Skinwalker? Yeah, yeah, cool. I mean, Heather, my only other question, I guess, for Skinwalker is, you know, where your paranormal investigative skills came in. I mean, you had a graveyard right in the middle of the ranch. So, like, what was it like? I mean, this isn't your typical graveyard or haunted house, I would say. You're in, like, a living laboratory of weirdness. So, like, how do you deal with something like that? Yeah, I mean, I got the best of both worlds being out there. I mean, I don't know. It's just you're, you just get so the moment, it just, there's no thinking. You just go for it. So I don't even, I don't know how to answer that because you never know what's going to happen in this field. It's just things happen. And you're wondering, did I catch that on camera? Please tell me, I caught that on camera. That is the most, yeah. Yeah.

You know about that graveyard, which is, it's cool. It's, it's a community graveyard. You don't need a permit for. You really don't know who's buried there. It's for people. I think it's actually on Indian reservation land too. But it's a community graveyard where someone passes away, the family just buries them. And so who knows what's going on there. But I'm sure I was going to talk about a backstory. Now I just, oh my gosh. Lost in the mind.

Oh, no, man. Hey, there's so much we can talk about. Oh, you got it. Now I'm here. Oh, let's do it, please. I was so intrigued with what Heather was saying. You can tell you guys work well together. And she caught something and then our game cameras caught stuff.

Our game camera, oh my God, picked up a conversation. Oh, that's right. In the second. Was that in the episode? I forgot about that. There's just so much that happens that we are. We got more stuff in one episode than Ghost Hunters and Ghost Hunters. and those adventures, no offense to them,

have picked up in two or three episodes. And yet we had so much stuff we couldn't put it. No offense to Zach or those guys, because I was on ghost adventures once. But I want Zach coming after me because he pretty much owns Travel Channel. But we got the opportunity to meet a Native American elder, Ute Elder.

And I interviewed him on camera, but that didn't make it on the show. There's just too much going on. You only have 42, 46 minutes or whatever. Right. And we've probably shot 15 hours. But the thing is, is I got this opportunity to meet this Native American elder and talk to him about real stuff.

Now, we talked off-camera first about what he can say and what he can't see because he was under the permission of the U council to be able to speak with us. Okay. And he basically, there's certain things that you can't talk about. And Nialushi, Skinwalker, you can't use the name pretty much because that's inviting his Skinwalker, and they don't like that. Yai Na'Aushi is the Navajo name for Skinwalker. I know I'm mispronouncing it, so I apologize to anybody. He speaks Navajo often.

So I'm talking to him. I said, so we know that there's a name, a Native American name for Bigfoot, Sasquatch. There's other names too. And does a U-Trib have a name for Bigfoot? Because Bigfoot's been seen in that area, too. And he goes, yeah, it's part of that. You know, I'm going, whoa. I go, what about UFOs?

Does the U-O-F-O-Trib have a name for UFOs? And he goes, yeah, it's da-da-da. And I went, oh, that's really interesting. I'm like, what about gray aliens? He goes, yeah, it's by that. And I'm going, what? The U-T tribe has got a U-Name for a gray alien. not just aliens, but for specific gray alien?

He goes, yeah. And he goes, oh, I can't talk about that on camera. And I said, well, I'm just like totally fascinated with this. Now, I go, how old is that name? He goes, oh, it's generations. I'm going, so the youth tribe has got a name for a gray alien that's been passed through generations. And he goes, yeah, I'm going, that's awesome.

And that same guy, too, do you remember his experience? He saw a UFO and it emitted this red light. And for two weeks after he saw it, he felt the sensation of electricity going throughout his body. Do you remember that? Yeah. And he also talked about there was a Bigfoot sighting in the same area, too. But for the Native Americans, at least the ones that I've talked to, Apache's, Navajos, huge. It's no big deal to them to talk about UFOs.

Two weeks, three weeks ago, I got this email from a Native American investigator, UFO investigator. This was the second time in the past couple of years. I've got this type of sighting. We're talking, I don't want to say moth man, but it's a winged hybrid. And this was in New Mexico, second time. Not the same reservation, different ones. So there's something flying around out there, too. That's scary.

So, you know, doing UFO investigations and stuff, and, you know, we deal in UFOs, paranormal, creatures, all kinds of stuff, you know, you got to watch your back because you really don't know, you know, what's out there. You know, and I'm not knocking, you know, ghost investigations because, I mean, you know, there's, you know, evil apparitions and demons and all kinds of stuff that they could knock you down off of stairs and stuff. But I don't want to be picked up in need. You know, that's a good point. I think what people have to keep in mind is, yeah, I mean, these shows, they have to be structured or scripted to an extent. I mean, that's television. But at the same time, like, there's no guarantee that you guys are 100% safe when you're going into these investigations. I mean, Daniel, running over, you know, a mountain in the middle of the night, like, anything could happen or something could attack you guys.

There's predators everywhere near Skinwalker Ranch. that's interesting. Another quick backstory. The very first time we were with the production crew, Daniel and I, because I'm a former reserve deputy for eight years and Daniel at the time was

a full time peace officer. I don't really want to say what district he's with or anybody. So we both have law enforcement, Daniel, a lot more experience than me because he was active. And so before

before we even started shooting the very first episode, it was really funny. We put the law down. We basically stood in front of the whole production company. He says, okay, we know we have a director and a show runner here, but if anything happens, you know, anything out of the noise, anything that could cause harm or put anybody's lives in jeopardy, and dad's the one that's talking, says, we're the ones in charge.

And it was so funny to see the director and a showrunner look at us like, wait on there, we're in charge. No, you're not. We're in charge. The reason we're in charge is because we're both carrying. Daniel, we're both carried concealed through every episode. I didn't in California because my concealed carry permit doesn't acknowledge California, but everybody else. So we're both carrying full time, right?

Daniel could because he's full time. And so we said, because we can protect you. Now, there was a case in Missouri. You mentioned gunshots. There was gunshots out there. Now, it was a couple houses down. We're in the house, and there was some gunshots. but the gunshots were in the direction of where we were going to be shooting.

And so Dan felt compelled to come in. He goes, you know, Dad goes, look, we got to do a quick safety meeting real quick before we go there. I go, you're in charge of a guy, literally because he's big. And so this is a deal. When we're there and we hear shots fired, we're in charge. You don't listen to anybody but us, okay, because we're the only two that can protect you. and and then and we'll have extractions for you and course Dan says you know we'll tell you where to go again

when he did when we got their scope the whole area out and ahead of time and saw where the safe places would be for the production crew because not only as an investigator do we have to protect ourselves we have to protect the people on our team we have to protect you know the production crew now too and so we were ready to rock and roll and that happened in Tonapal that happened in you know in Utah also

You know, so yeah, so when you do UFO investigations, especially a field investigator, I don't go anywhere without carrying concealed. I got a 12 gauge with slugs for any time I do Bigfoot investigations. It's not for Bigfoot. You'll just piss them off. It's for mountain lions and bears. You know, and I'm not going to shoot them, basically, unless they're attacking me. But I always carry either a 45 or 40, you know, 380 or something, you know, that.

Me too. It's like the Boy Scouts mantra. Always be prepared. Heather, they'll just tell them a scary ghost story. That'll do it. Well, so that's all the episodes of the show's guide,

guys, but we did have a couple listener questions, and these come from a very special guest who sent these to me. So, Heather, I'm going to hit you with this one first. All right. Let's see here. I guess this is for both of you. What were your guys' favorite song to sing with Dan while driving to the next location? Do you guys remember what this song was? Because I know what it is.

It's the rubber band man song, isn't it? Ding, ding, ding, ding, correct. Yeah. Good job. Guess who that came from. That would be from Dan. I wonder. Daniel did reach out to me last night and he sent in some questions. I'm sorry I didn't get him on here, He's been commenting all night, keeping up with us in the commentary. So Daniel, thank you so much for joining us, man. Yeah, you know, and everybody's got to remember that Daniel is sitting at Fort Bliss, Texas. He's an MP for Colorado National Guard. And he was supposed to be deployed to Afghanistan this year. But because of the COVID crisis, he's been sitting for the past month, which my wife and I are really happy that he's not in Afghanistan.

but he's sitting there and they're hunkered down too so they're going through the same thing that civilians are going through by not being able to be, you know, be with other people basically but you know you gotta give him good job, Danf.

Absolutely. Yeah, Daniel. Thank you so much, man. And hey, if you're looking for something to do, just watch Alien Highway. I know it's available to this stream so he can rewatch everything that you guys all did there and relive the memories. There's another one for you, Heather. This other unknown person wants to know.

What was your favorite location that you and Dan did an EBP session at? Do you remember this? Not necessarily in the show. Oh, no, I do remember this. I'm just trying to think of where it was. Oh, my gosh, it was the Mitzpah Hotel. Boom. You got it. Yeah. Testing you guys. Yeah. Yep. Awesome. Anything, anything come of that that you're willing to share with? less? We actually had the thermal cam and we shined it towards the bathroom and we did actually pick up a shadow, but we don't have the footage. It's not in the session. But we did catch something. You could see the shadow of something standing in the bathroom. Oh, interesting. That's a little creepy. All right. Well, I've got to some closing questions. You know, besides the show,

just some stuff I wanted to personally ask you guys. Oh, I also want to add. And Daniel did tell me what his most memorable investigation or moment of evidence was for him personally. And I'm sure viewers would like to know this. He said, to be honest, the Missouri Orbs were actually, that was it for him. When we interviewed Steve, I thought he was full of shit. I've been to multiple interview and interrogation courses as a cop and I didn't believe him one bit. But then when I see Red Orbs and literally chase after them and they disappear, unreal. being a skeptic and seeing things I can't explain is what made it really exciting for me.

So that's cool hearing that from probably the most skeptical person on the show. You know, and as his dad, it was really a big moment for me. You know, I remember the first time that I saw a craft, first time I saw Balls of Light, first time I saw Bigfoot footprints in the snow. You know, that was a big game changer for me. And to see Dan, to, you know, to see, you. see Dan's face. And it was just a reflection

of probably what my face looked like when I experienced, you know, those things for the first time, too. And I thought, I am so sorry. Now you're ruined. Now you're just like the rest of us, you know, you back, you know. Yeah, you pulled them in.

And it was so crazy there. We had so much footage. I actually had footage on my own camera that I released on my website. There was so much going on there. Dan literally chased after it. And there was a second time

where the light was moving like this and had their thoughts. And we did an experiment. I didn't make it on TV either. But we did another flashing light experiment. This time we used our headlaps that we have on our forehead. You know, they have a strobe function. So we just held

them and strobed it and turned off the strobe to see if anything. And it's straight enough this light's going just like A few minutes later, so that experiment worked. And I have it on camera. And Heather's going, I'm yelling at Heather. Heather, can you see it out? And Heather goes, I can see it.

And then I was, wonderful. Dad takes off running for it. I remember, too, I saw the first light, and I didn't say anything. It was like right mid-tree line level. I didn't say anything because I was like, what the heck did I just see? And then the second one, we all see it. And then the third one is just like, I was really surprised that didn't make the episode. I don't like you said, there was so much stuff.

And then my sister was there when she was there before, you know, when the investigation came to me and shot, you know, she was using, if anybody out there wants a really good camera, the psionics camera is a really good made by Aurora. Not that I'm pitching it, but they just came out with a new Aurora Pro. I spent it in February and sometime this month or, you know, in May I'll get it. But it's a really great night vision camera that uses a lot of starlight. and we were capturing some really, really good stuff. She had sent me something just before we showed up that these lights were underwater. It's just crazy.

And then I just talked to her a month or so ago and there's still stuff going on there. So that would be definitely, if we had a second season, that would definitely be a place we want to go back to because, oh, there was a neighbor down the street that had security cameras. That didn't make it on the show either. You can see this one come down to the barn

and go around the barn. They take off. That's amazing to me. I mean, you guys, it's like you had too much that couldn't, they couldn't put it all in the show, whereas most shows have the complete opposite, where they are to the point where clearly they're either fabricating things or making something, you know, out to be way more than it is.

But I'll add this one listener question here. Heather, Kurt was at East Setti Ranch a month before you in 2008. Anything interesting happened to you when you were there? this is a really trippy place. Oh my gosh. This is one place I've been wanting to go back to. I've been there twice. And each time I was there, I had insane experiences.

But I mean, every night you would see these lights. And it's really incredible when you have, we had software there that was a satellite tracking program. So we could see, you know, what satellites were going where in what direction. But we would see these lights that would just cruise across the sky really slow. Then they would stop. We would shine these high power military. flashlight's at them, whatever it was would blink back to us, keep on cruising through the sky,

and then just zoom off and disappear. And we saw this multiple times. And I mean, to this day, I still, I tell everybody that they have to go, they have to go there and experience it. Yeah, yeah. I've been meaning to get out there. And I mean, again, it's just one of these places where there's so much unexplained high strangeness occurring that you can't deny it. So, yeah, Yeah, yeah. I definitely suggest people. That was going to be on our second season, too. Oh, right. We should just do a crazy event. We'll just do it and put it on YouTube.

There you go. Yeah. You beat me to it, man. That's going to be my next question for you guys. I mean, if given the opportunity to get back out there, go back on the alien highway, what would you want to investigate? Does anything really stick out to you, something that you really feel you could bring, you know, break the lid wide open on? Well, the thing. The thing with the first season of Alien Highway, and I think what worked with what we captured is this were, these were cases that were happening now.

And, you know, I've been in business long enough that, you know, I've got contacts all over, at least the western side of U.S. And so I was hitting all my contacts up before the, you know, while we were trying to figure out what to do and saying, what's hot right now, what's hot right now. I don't want to investigate something. I want to capture something real time. And we were so lucky, even in the California one, that the episodes that were lined up were episodes where steps happening now. So to be able to answer that question, I can only answer it at the time if we got a second season

because I'd be out there putting the fillers and finding out what's happening. Because who knows where it could be? I know Missouri's hot right now. I know a part of Colorado, Utah, border's hot right now. Upper northern Colorado's hot right now. Kansas, I know a place in Kansas that's hot. I mean, you know, there's places right now where I know that it's only because of my website, people emailing me, they'll see Alien Highway or they'll see, gosh, even unexplained

files of season two I was on season one and two, but very briefly. I've met on TV as much as Heather. I'm not that experience. But when they see that, they Google or search me and they come to my website, and I answer every email because if they took the time to email me, I'm going to take the time to answer them. And it's sightings. And we've got, oh, my gosh. Do you know, Heather, we have at least two seasons, two more seasons worth of investigations we can do. Yeah.

on the siding reports that came in from after the show. And that makes the production company. And I've got probably at least 20 or 25 that I saved that are really good ones just, you know, here. I have a collection too. It's just, it's crazy. I mean, if, you know, anyway. Digating their phenomena would be really great because I know their government kind of backs it up. So they're real serious about it.

So those are three that stick out to me. That's our note right now. now. Yeah. What you say? I'll tell you why, because my wife and I were headed towards London this Saturday. Work. My birthday is on Cinco de Mayo, and we had the trip already set up to be in Paris on her

birthday next Tuesday. Man, that's a bummer. Yeah, this global crisis has really thrown a wrench into a lot of things. I know, you know, most conferences have been canceled this entire year, sporting events, concerts. it's an interesting time we're living in but you know at least we have the luxury of going to watch the entire series of Alien Highway again

and um yeah absolutely yourself short this is cool this is so much fun I mean this was a huge like experiment tonight to see how it went and I think it went really well I'm so happy that you guys were able to do this I got to ask you before we kind of

wrap up here. This whole new age we live in with UFO, I guess, quote unquote, disclosure. You know, we have this New York Times article that came out, the Navy videos, and like, seemingly the topic went mainstream, which a lot of us weren't used to. We were used to being in this, quote unquote, fringe community for so long preaching to the choir, but now we have a world audience listening to a lot of us. So what do you think? Are we, moving or inching closer to something you two would personally consider disclosure? Is that even a thing? What do you make of UFOs, I guess, in 2020?

I'll let Heather go first because I wrote a blog on this. I mean, I think it's really wonderful because it's opening the subject up to so many different kinds of people. And being that, you know, we're all in quarantine right now, does that mean more people are going outside in their yards and looking up at the sky? you know, are sightings increasing? Are people becoming more aware of things in the sky? But, I mean, I just think it's great that people are talking about it. You know, maybe we'll see more footage and, you know, people like we can analyze it. And overall, I think it's, it's wonderful. But it's also confusing at the same time because these videos were released like three years ago.

Yeah, yeah, that's a good point. I mean, a lot of people are coming to me in the last couple days and being like, oh, my God, what is this? Like, are you, did you know about this? I'm like, yeah, we kind of talked about it two years ago. We've been dissecting these videos, these 20-second videos, for almost three years now. But now it's official, according to the government. So, hey, you know what? We'll take what we can get.

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. What do you think, man? Disclosure, do you believe in it? Is it a thing? Are we in it? Yeah, what do you got? Well, it seems like every eight years or so there's talks about,

disclosure. You got to remember, I've been doing this for over 30 years. So it's, you know, it comes around. But we're getting really, really close this time, you know, with a Tick-Tac and all the different videos coming out. And I thought, okay, this is it. You know, 2020, it's really big for us, you know, that it's going to push closer and closer disclosure. And then COVID-19 happened. And then what I saw, and that's why I wrote a blog about it, really upset me. I saw people fighting. I saw people hoarding. I saw people blaming each other.

You know, people here in Colorado, you know, more guns on people's hips when they're going to the grocery stores more than I've ever seen. It's legal here. But, you know, I've seen more and more. And all of a sudden I realized we're not ready for disclosure, you know, at least we're not ready. If we can't handle a virus without going apeshit, right, then how in the heck can we handle aliens? And then what about the people now that think, oh, my gosh, what about aliens having a virus and diseases? Are we going to be affected by that? And so because of what I've seen people do because of COVID, I think we just pretty much just destroyed any opportunity, at least this year or next year, you know, of those.

disclosure, I can guarantee you that there are people in high levels that we're thinking about disclosure that have been taking notes on how people are reacting and, you know, socially and, you know, psychologically. But then why would the Pentagon in the middle of the COVID crisis pop up and say, oh, those videos were real? Now I got thinking, oh shit, there's something coming down that they can't control. If they could control it, they would have waited past COVID. That's a good point. That's a great point.

Something coming down that possibly they can't control. Now, in my blog, I kind of, the very tail in the blog, I'm saying, well, the only way that that really disclosure can happen now is literally for UFOs flying across the United States. say, hey, we're here. Because before it was people like me and Heather and like you bringing this information out and pretty much getting people geared up and with knowledge of knowing this stuff has been going on, not since, you know, since the last two decades, but, you know, generations, generations. I have an animal mutilation investigation that was reported in the late 1800s in Missouri with the UFO and three animals that were dead.

So it's nothing new that's, you know, it's been going on for such a long time. But now I'm thinking, why would the Pentagon just release this? What's going on here? Why, why they chose now? Is it to bury the news in everything else we're bombarded with on a daily basis? So we'll forget about it. I don't know. It is an interesting theory and concept.

And I do really wonder what's going to happen next in terms of, you know, UFO disclosure or what are we going to get from the government? Well, you're all going to know what I already know. Exactly. Chuck's got all the answers. I know. I don't have all the answers. I just know all the questions, but I don't know any of the answers.

Good point. Very good point. Well, I've got two more questions just to wrap things up with you guys here. The first one being what comes next for you guys. I know, you know, we're all kind of locked down right now, so it's tough to get out there and actually do anything. But when it comes to UFOs, what are you doing now? Are you still, Chuck, are you actively looking into cases? Heather, what have you been up to ever since we've all been kind of shunned into our domiciles, as it were?

I mean, I've been reading a lot. I'm actually rereading Communion for the third time. Oh, nice. We just reviewed the movie on the show recently. I listened to it. Oh, okay. I've been reading a lot, playing music. Oh, man, roller skating, just trying to be active. But mostly, I mean, mostly I've just been reading and research and stuff.

Cool. How about you, Chuck? What do you have been up to? Well, I had three investigations lined up before, you know, this hit COVID. And one was a ghost investigation. one was a big foot and then one was strange lights in the sky and a town, a small town

where I was going to go to the small town. I mean, and all this was, you know, within a couple hours of my home. And then this happened. So there's not much, you know, you can do other than, you know, just take notes and this is what we're going to do. This is what I'm going to do when, you know, when we get to the point where we can all get out together again.

Spend a little money, of course, you know. I'm one of the lucky ones. My job, I designed microchips. So I was able, I'm working from home, so working from home, doing that, remote logging into the computer at work. My wife works for a company that's an essential company, so she has to be there every day and she wears a mask. Oh, Heather, I get so I ordered a connect system.

As the Krispy Chicken Sandwich from 7-Eleven, people always call me loud. And I'm like, yeah, I'm. I know. I'm crispy. Did you expect me to whisper? If you want quiet, go eat some soup and reflect. Look, I know I'm a handful. I'm bold. I'm juicy. Throw some pickles and barbecue sauce on me. And baby, I'm a whole meal. And with seven rewards, I'm just $4. Quiet. No. Krispy, saucy, and $4? Very. Only at 711. Valley through 62326 participating stores only while supplies lastly out for full terms. Oh, you did? I finally pulled the trigger on that. That's fun.

Yeah, so wife doesn't know about that one either. Oh, man. She's in store. Yeah, yeah, down the rabbit hole you go. Also, too, in October, Chuck and I have an event we're doing together in Minnesota that I really hope isn't canceled. I hope not. I hope not because we rescheduled our London trip for October. Right.

Yeah. Yeah. It's crazy out there, but, you know, I'm still getting citing reports and I'm getting, you know, people. So can you, no, I can't. There's nothing I can do right now. You know, I can't go out to your, you know, we're just, it's unfortunate, but that's just the way it is. But, you know, the nice thing about UFOs is there's a lot of them. There's a lot of them. And, you know, we've seen a lot of stats go up since people have been in lockdown. I mean, I've spoken to several Mufon investigators who said the numbers are rising.

And we've had a few mass UFO sightings. recently as well in like Detroit and I think Ohio, Encinitas. So, I mean, people are home. They're looking for any reason to go outside or pop their head out the window right now and maybe they'll see something. So, I mean, if I can say anything to anyone, like still report these things because that's what we do. We gather the numbers and then we go to where the most activities happening.

Damn you, SpaceX. Yeah, I know. That is. The Starlink satellite's have been. become our worst enemy. Oh, like satellites. I just got an email about that the other day, you know, mass UFO siding over in Oregon and a little bit of research going, yeah, you saw the starling.

And then we have the cases with less traffic. We have less smog. And the skies are clear. Yep. Really good point. Yep. I mean, now is the time to look up, guys. So please keep looking up.

And in terms of looking, I guess, forward to wrap this up, guys, I'd love to get your opinion on this. I have a lot of younger followers, viewers, listeners to my show, and a lot of younger people getting involved in this field of research, UFOs, which is super exciting. You know, I used to be considered one of the younger people, and I'm in my mid-30s or something. I won't go there.

But I was considered young at one point, and now I'm seeing, like, teenagers getting involved with this, which is awesome. So I guess my question to kind of wrap this up would be, Chuck, we'll start with you. What should younger people do when they get involved with this topic? There's so much disinformation, misinformation, misinformation, hoaxes, this, that, this, that. The ridicule factor even of saying don't look into that stuff or you're crazy. What would you tell a young person who's just getting interested in the UFO topic?

Where should they turn? What should they do? Well, I kind of like was there. So just based on my experience, I start out by researching and reading. I have a reading communion. I have communion. So it depends first. You have to pick a topic, pick what you want first. What do you want to investigate? And then start researching material on that and find out if there's any UFO groups nearby.

You know, when this COVID goes away, then you can go to, you know, some UFO meetings. But when you want to get to a point where you want to be an investigator, there's books out there on how to be an investigator. I'm former Mufon. I'm not with them anymore, but Mufon actually has an investigator program, and you can go to just Mufon, Mufon, and you can download. We have to purchase it. Their investigator manual, I think I wrote the portion on animal meditations and stuff for them. But it's an investigator manual. It's really good.

It's updated. And even if you don't become a field investigator for Mufon, you have the tools to do it. And then decide what you want to do, where you want to go, start small. Because I tell you, you know, this may not be what you want to do. It's engulfed my life since as long as I can remember. I've been involved in euphology since elementary school. And, you know, luckily my wife just goes with it. I know that feeling, yeah.

Pick a topic and go with, you know, and take step by steps and then email people like me, ask questions. You know, that's why I am here. Email my website. And I get emails all the time from people asking me, how do I become an investigator? I tell them exactly what I just told you. And I said, if you have any questions, I even try and find groups in their area. You know, I try, I'll help where I can. Right now it's tough, but, you know.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Everything's tough. I think a good quote that one of our people, Stanman, said was, we're locked down, UFOs aren't, which is a really important thing to remember. The work continues. So, Heather, what about you? What advice would you give younger people getting involved in, either paranormal, UFOs, everything in between? What do you think? I mean, I would definitely say the way I started out was I went out into the field.

I took my recorder and my video camera and my Ouija board, and I went right out to where I wasn't supposed to be. Well, don't do that, but you know what I mean? Like, go to a place, you know, you can start investigating and just kind of see what you can, what evidence you can get. You know, I started reading books by Ed and Lorraine Warren, you know, the leading researchers, you know, with ghosts, they've been doing, you know, research for decades. So I really kind of dove into all of their research, which is really important in the field. But just reading and exploring different cases, so then when you finally go out there, you can pick up the correlations between different kinds of activity and why it might be happening. I think that's really key is knowing your cases and researching.

Take very good notes and have lots of little notebooks like I do. Awesome. Yeah, you're sickler for the notebooks, which I love, and we need that. Guys, this has been amazing. I thought this is going to be like an hour. Of course, we're going on almost two and a half. I don't know what I was thinking, but I have to thank you both for giving me so much of your time tonight and for all the listeners and viewers sticking with us, asking questions. I'm trying to get used to getting in as much as I can with making it more interactive with people. But before we go, both of you, Heather, where can we find everything you're doing? Yeah, give it to us.

Give us them socials. I just launched my website, which is Heathertaddy.com. and that's pretty exciting. You can find me on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook. It's all under Classic Tad. That's my handle. Cool. How about you, Chuck?

Just UFO nut. com or, yeah, just, you know, because if you search Chuck Zucalski, you'll misspell my last name. So I still do. Remember UFO Nut, you know, it's an LLC and it's been trademarked this year. it's going to be around for a while.

Cool. Well, guys, it was so refreshing to revisit the alien highway. I was such a big fan. I really hope that either travel, discovery, or any of these networks, re-examine the show and see how important it is to actual research and getting this topic out to the mainstream. So I got to thank you both for doing this. And, yeah, I will keep looking up and keep looking within, too.

I guess. That's me trying to be metaphorical and philosophical at the end of my thing there. But no, Chuck. And with viewers, too. And so all your viewers out there, by all means, email Travel Channel, let them know that you're on Alien Highway back or Discovery, because Discovery owns travel. That is a very good point. Social networks are extremely powerful. So if you guys do want to see Heather and Chuck back out there again and Daniel, I'm sure he'll come back, tweet to Travel Channel, hit them up wherever you. you can. Let's get this thing back on the air because I want to get down on that highway with you guys as well. So once again, Chuck, Heather, thank you so much for joining me

on Somewhere in the Skies. Thank you very much. Thank you so. Somewhere in the Skies is produced by Third Kind Productions in association with the Entertainment One Podcast Network. To learn more, visit Entertainment Onepodcast.com.