Somewhere in the Skies - Alan Stivelman: WITNESS OF ANOTHER WORLD

Episode Date: October 14, 2019

On episode 130 of SOMEWHERE IN THE SKIES, Ryan speaks with filmmaker, Alan Stivelman, about his new documentary, Testigo de Otro Mundo (Witness of Another World) Juan Perez lives a solitary existence on a remote farm ever since he witnessed a UFO event. Stivelman, together with the help of famous astrophysicist Jacques Vallée, begin an epic journey to help Juan in understanding the deep meaning of his close encounter. This true story shows the long-term consequences of close encounters, proving that no one is exempt from a potential contact. In this interview, Stivelman describes this journey in making the film, why he decided to cover the UFO topic, and what he, Juan, and Vallée learned along the way about the phenomenon and our relationship to it. Guest Bio: Alan Stivelman is an independent filmmaker residing in Buenos Aires and Barcelona. His films were premiered in Latin American cinemas. In Argentina, his two documentaries were the most viewed of the year. His first production was the result of a solo journey he made to the Andes, where he met an Andean wise-man, to answer his 200 questions. The title of this work is "Humano", which to date has been seen by more than 3 million people around the world. He is also the creator of the films, "Capitan Bola Ocho" and "Testigo de Otro Mundo" (Witness of Another World) You can learn more at www.WitnessofAnotherWorld.com or follow him on Twitter @humanofilms Patreon: www.patreon.com/somewhereskies Website: www.somewhereintheskies.com YouTube Channel: CLICK HERE Official Store: CLICK HERE Order Ryan's Book by CLICKING HERE Twitter: @SomewhereSkies Instagram: @SomewhereSkiesPod Watch Mysteries Decoded for free at www.CWseed.com Shop SAUCER BRAND now and use the promo code: SKIES for an exclusive discount: www.TheSaucerBrand.com Opening Theme Song, "Ephemeral Reign" by Per Kiilstofte SOMEWHERE IN THE SKIES is part of the eOne podcast network. To learn more, CLICK HERE SOMEWHERE IN THE SKIES is sponsored by HelloFresh. To receive 50% off your first order, use promo code: SOMEWHERE at checkout by visiting www.HelloFresh.ca Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/somewhere-in-the-skies. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

You're juggling a lot, but you can still squeeze in a financial plan. With the Northwestern Mutual Financial Advisor as your partner, it's not only possible, it's personalized. So if you're tying the knot, closing on a house, or welcoming a little one, you'll be ready for whatever life tosses your way. It's the right time to feel less stressed and more certain. That's a better way to money. Let's get started at nm.com, the Northwestern Mutual Life Insurance Company, Milwaukee, Wisconsin. A one, two, three, four, give me a break, give me a break, break me off a piece of that Kit Kat. Break me off a piece of that Kit Kat Bar.

Head Shock and whisk me off a piece of that Kit Kat Bar. Have a break. Have a Kit Kat. Hey, y'all. Ryan Spreck here. As you all know, the Somewhere in the Sky's podcast is always free to consume, but it isn't free to create. That's why I've started the Somewhere in the Sky's Patreon campaign. monthly basis, you give what you think the show is worth. You'll be helping the show continue, grow, and to be something truly communal. And remember, there are rewards for each level of contribution, and the list is only grown. So please, help Somewhere in the Skies now by becoming a patron.

To contribute and to learn more, visit www. patreon.com backslash somewhere skies. Thank you for your support. And now on with the show. Today on the show, Ellen St. Evilman joins us to talk about his new film, Witness of Another World. Before I made this movie, I had two questions. One of them was if there is a connection between the ancestry or the lineage and the UFO phenomenon on people that had these kind of encounters. And the other question was if there is a connection between the afterlife and the UFO phenomenon also. This is Somewhere in the Skies with Ryan Sprague.

Welcome to Somewhere in the Skies. I'm your host Ryan Sprague. A few months ago, I'd heard through several colleagues of a film coming out in Argentina about a man who had a close encounter experience. I'd seen every UFO or alien-themed documentary under the sun, and some were decent, some were mediocre, and some were just plain awful. So when I'd heard about this project, I originally brushed it off as just another fringe documentary. But then, I saw the trailer.

And then, I reached out to the director. Having not spoken to many UFO researchers in America yet, he was very excited to hear of my interest. I screened the film that night, and then I watched it again, and again, and again. Testigo de Otro Mundo or witness of another world is, in my opinion, one of the most beautiful stories to ever be told

about the UFO experiential phenomenon. It's a deeply profound and powerful journey through the art of Juan Perez, a lonely farmer who secludes himself from society for over 30 years after having a UFO close encounter. But with the help of filmmaker,

Ellen Stievelman, and the work of several Argentinian researchers and famed astrophysicist Jacques Valet, pieces of the puzzle begin to emerge, and it's piecing together the life of a broken man in order to find his purpose and place in the world. Today, Alan and I talk all about the film, his thoughts on the UFO phenomenon, and just how human these possible alien encounters can truly make us feel. Ellen, thank you so much for joining me today

on Somewhere in the Skies. Thank you, Ryan, for having me. It's a pleasure. It is such an honor to speak to you after having viewed your film about five times now. Thank you. Thank you so much. Yes. Before we even get to

what the film is about and how you made the film, I have to say, it is probably one of the most beautiful documentaries and most heartfelt documentaries I've ever seen, especially within the UFO topic. So I have to congratulate you first and foremost. Thank you, Ryan. Thank you. Your work means a lot to me. Before we get to the film, Witness of Another World, Alan, I'd like to maybe ask you how you became

a filmmaker. Where did your interest in filmmaking first start? It started when I was 15 years old. at that time I was studying IT and I was a programmer in my high school but after some time when I was in my literature class I discussed a lot with a professor about movies about cinema about messages in the movies and he showed me a movie that changed my mind and my mindset completely the title of this movie is Topo from Alexander Hodorowski

and it's a very surreal film that changed my perception completely after I saw that movie I didn't understand anything about what I was seeing but I felt something inside of me

that changed me. I don't know what? And after that I said I want to make movies that can change people in a way that it's not like a regular movie that has a story behind and ending. For example, in El Topo, it's like a big puzzle of images,

of sounds, of actions, and I want to transmit that same feeling into my audience, and that's the beginning of my career and on my journey of filmmaking. That's fantastic, Ellen. I mean, I know I have the same sort of feeling. I write movies, fiction movies, and I remember my first film that really inspired me was by Alfred Hitchcock, which was Vertigo. And I had the same feeling of I didn't quite know or understand what I was seeing, what I was hearing, but I knew that it was affecting me in a very,

raw or visceral way. And that inspired me to then create stories. So as a fellow filmmaker slash writer, I know that feeling well. Yeah, the same feeling here, yes. Absolutely. Well, that brings us to the film that we're going to be discussing today, witness of another world. So maybe before we get to a lot of what the film represents, you know,

these big. philosophical questions. How did you first hear about the story of Juan Perez and what happened to him as a child? Well, the long, short story is that it was 2013 and I was doing automatic writing by that time and I was writing a story about an abduction. a couple that was abducted by strange entities. And I was not involved in the UFO phenomenon nor aliens. At that time, I didn't know nothing about that. My only focus on my research side was just to dig into the mystery of a lot of civilization in the world, about what is below earth, about my passion was archaeology.

It was strange for me to start writing about this kind of stuff. So then after 30 pages of writing, I stopped. It was a fiction story. And then I started to investigate this field, this new field for me. And then when I was walking by my neighborhood, I stopped onto a bookstore. And I bought a used book that it was about cases. abduction cases in Argentina. It was written by a psychiatrist,

Dr. Nestle Berlanda, who is one of the characters of the movie. And then when I was in Rosario, a city near Buenos Aires, four hours away, I was presenting my previous movie, Humano. And what happened is that in the audience, was Dr. Nestor Berlanda seeing my movie, and I was grabbing his book while I was speaking to audience. And it was a hell of synchronicity. We looked each other and we said that we need to meet

each other, we need to speak about this. This is not something by chance. And the next day, while we were having a pizza, he's starting to speak about his most significant case, that was the Juan Perth case. And he showed to me as a video that was when Juan's, he showed to me as a video that was when Juan was 18 years old, he was speaking into an audience and when he started to say like, well, what happened to me was he broke down. It's one of the first scenes in my movie. And then I realized that I was seeing something that was true. I was in front of a broken teenager that was like struggling between his, his own beliefs and he was. like allowed to express himself and it was a UFO audience.

They all want to believe him, but inside of him he was saying like, no one is going to believe me. So immediately after, I asked Verlanda, Dr. Ernesto Berlanda, to meet Juan. And four months later, I meet Juan and it was one of the most significant encounters that I ever had. After that, you read the case reports on Juan's experience and you decided to meet him. So what was that first meeting like? Was he what you expected or something completely different? It was something completely different because it was the first time that I met someone who had an encounter, who had that supernatural encounter.

It was my first experience with a contactee. So I remember that I was recording the whole encounter with him. And then he suddenly started to speak to me about his case, about his encounter. And then he broke down. He started to cry. And then I stopped my camera because I wasn't able to keep recording while he was crying. It was very emotional for me. And then I just sat down next to him and just listened.

And I started to feel very not awkward. It's not the accurate word. It's more like I started to feel more like strange. I don't know what, but one is a very special person. And something from his aura, just to put a word, start to like embrace to me. And it was really, I spent like four or five hours with him and with Dr. Nestor Berlanda. And after our meeting, he said to us like, please don't leave me.

Come back again. We are now friends. And those words kept echoing in my head for three years. But after that meeting, but that time I only wanted to make a short film about this story. but while I was editing this short footage, I wasn't be able to keep doing it. I don't know why, probably because I have to do this movie. But at that time, I didn't know that. So I step away that footage and I started to dig into the UFO phenomenon.

I read all the books from Jack Ballet. I read plenty of books during the time of three years. After that time, I started to feel more secure to make this film. And I went again to Benaltwerto, the hometown of Juan. And I asked him the permission to start making this project. And he said, yes. And that's the beginning of this little story. This little story that becomes something very, very big and powerful.

And in the official synops, of your film. Juan is a self-proclaimed gaucho. So could you explain to maybe our American audience, Alan, what is a gaucho? What would that be considered here in North America? Well, the simple way to express is like gaucho, they are like the cowboys from South America. A gaucho is a skilled horseman reputed to be brave and wild. they are mainly they are mestizos, persons of mixed blood, half blood are indigenous, and the other part are from Spain. So that's the best way to describe them. It sort of is almost the, what you would not expect want to be.

You would expect him to be very, very manly, you know, very macho. Very rude, yeah, yeah, like we view the Western cowboy. here in in America. And he is such a, a man filled with emotion. And it's clear that whatever happened to him as a child affected him very traumatically. And I think that's what really,

really brings the viewer into the film, is whatever happened to Juan, it affected him in many, many ways. And he's very forthcoming about, his emotions and you were able to pull that out of him. Yes, it was not an easy shop, but when I was having like plenty of meetings with him, I started to saw him as a broken child

because in the outside, you see like a brave man, very big because Juan is pretty big. He's a hunter. He's a hunter. He also hands with his knife. Only with his knife, he doesn't use any kind of guns and he only hunt for

for eating purposes he's not recreational so you see like he's a brave man but behind those sides I was seeing like a broken child that needs that was needing

he was asking or screaming for help and I think you know as the movie progresses he he finds that help in many ways, which we will get to. But I think for our audience, Alan, maybe we should give them a little idea

of what the actual experience is that Juan had. I mean, we don't want to give away too much, obviously, but this was, what would we consider this, a close encounter of the second kind, maybe, the third kind? Well, it's hard, it's hard to explain because when I was discussing this case with Dr. Jack Ballet, it's not a typical abduction case because Juan voluntarily enters into this ship. So it's like in the middle from third or fourth, we don't know.

But the real case, what happened, it's like it was 6 o'clock in the morning, September 6, 1978. Juan left his home to find the herd of horses. to start the field work in his farm. Every day he did the same thing because before going to the school, he needed to make all the works in the farm. That's the way his father initiate him.

So it was 6 o'clock in the morning. Juan writes his horse cometa, it's comet in English. and he, after some minutes, he looked above his head and he saw like three lights dancing very frenetically. And his dog, his horse was getting a little bit upset. And he was really, really mad. And Juan got really scared because he was afraid to fall off his horse. And then he comes back to his house and tell.

his father like, Father, father, there are big lights in the sky. What should I do? And his father told him, like, I sent you to find the hurt, of course. Don't bother me with anything else. Just go and do your work. And then he climbs again.

He's his horse. He rides. And he saw like a big fog. Not that typically fog during the dawn. It was really strong. strange fog and he passes and after that

he found like a big it was like a big object a very very shiny white and he thought that he was seeing like a tractor or the house of workers from the farm

he wasn't afraid but his horse was really scared so he fell off he got off the horse and he goes into next to the this let's say ship and a ladder went off the door the doors opened and a big a big like being shows up and says not not says sorry he like do with his hand an invitation to to climb up and enter that ship so Juan climbs that ladder It was really hard for him to climb up because the stairs were really, really tall. And then when he's inside of this ship, he saw two things.

On his left side, there was a small beam, like a meter or a meter and a half, that was cutting meat on a table. This small bean had, instead of hands, he had scissors. and he was cutting a meat without blood. There was no blood in those meats that were in that table. And in the right side, he was seeing this tall big that was like two meters and a half, three meters. And he was like doing some gestures with his hands

and some monitors were in front of him. He was like making some coordinations. I don't know. but one of the biggest details in this experience was that in front of Juan there was like a mirror or a transparent mirror something like an electromagnetic field that Juan couldn't pass through that glass when he tries to enter to the space of these things he wasn't allowed but at the small beam with his because instead of legs

this small bean had wheels so he was able to cross from one side to the other but Juan couldn't and after a while the door started to close

and Juan realized that his horse was like really mad and was really afraid not from the beans he was afraid of his father because his father was really severe

and he was really strict with Juan and then he climbs down and he realized that his his horse was injured because he was kicking to the ladder and what happened

24 hours later his horse died now I want to stop here because two things happened after this case. In the original reports, it says that the tall being helped Juan to climb up to the horse, and then Juan goes back to his house with a globe that was a gift from this tall being. He told Juan that I want to give this to you because I want you to show to your family

as a proof of our contact. But before he could go to his house, three small lights came out of this big ship and took that globe before Juan could enter his house.

But in our movie, what we did is a regression. We practiced for the first time a regression to Juan in order to see if some lost memories could come up into the narrative. And it did.

There is a part that the distal being grabs the arm of Juan, the right arm, and started to squeeze it. And after that, Juan started to have like a vision. Let's say a vision, because I don't know

what happened to him. And I don't want to say what he saw, but what he saw was not part of the original reports. So that was a real surprise for me and for Dr. Nesto Verlanda, also for Dr. Jack Ballet. And when he saw that, Juan started to cry a lot. It was a very emotional part.

And we were doing like two hours of regression. And Dr. Nestor Verlanda decided to stop it right there. And that's why we couldn't finish the original story from the report. But for me, it doesn't care because it was more powerful what happened to Juan and with hit that vision, rather than that to stay focused on the original case report and make the recreation very accurate on that original report. At first, I didn't think it was real. I woke up to this blinding light and I was transported to another place. Pluto TV. Then I heard a voice. Come with me if you want to live. There were thousands of movies and shows, and they were all free. The truth is our sin. It's just so beautiful.

On Pluto TV, free streaming of Terminator 2, Fringe Arrow, the 100 NX files may cause excitement, loss of sleep and sudden belief in extraterrestrials. No credit cards or alien encounters necessary. Pluto TV, stream now, pay never. And I think, you know, what he, this vision that he had is, plays a big role. in how he interprets the experience later in his life. And I want to talk about that in a few moments. But, Ellen, you did mention the recreations. And my God, my friend, these things were stunning, the special effects that you used to do these reenactments.

So I have to ask you, who did your special effects? And what was it like working with actors to recreate as accurate as possible what happened, well, for me it was an amazing experience, not from the production side, because it took us the half of our budget, just at 10 minutes of the field. But it was a great experience.

It was my first experience working with BFX. A small team of BFX did those scenes. and when you mentioned the actor, it was a great experience dealing with little Juan. His name is Lucas. And I was doing like a casting because I was trying to find some child who can ride a horse. It's not easy to find actors in Buenos Aires because it's a city that knows how to deal with horses. And Lucas was the last one. And he didn't know how to ride a horse.

But why did I choose him? During the casting, this is a really funny anecdote. During the casting, I asked the actor to see the sky and try to see that they are seen like an elephant with wings. I didn't want to mention a UFO or a spacecraft. I just want to recreate an image that it's. bizarre for them and try to see their eyes the way they look at this object and Lucas was the last one and and I said to him well look look an elephant with wings and but I was really tired because

he was the last one and I said you know what in the sky there is a UFO there is a space a spacecraft and you have to see oh a UFO the one that my mother saw when he was 20 years old I'm a really I'm a really fan of UFO. Look at my notebook. And he showed me at his notebook. And there were drawings about UFO, the materials that they had. He was doing like a very strict research. And he was 12 years old.

Wow. And I say to him, you know what? You are higher. You are the one. Again, the synchronicity is just keep coming back, it seems. Yeah, it wasn't a synchronicity. Yes. And when Jack Ballet came to Argentina, we made like a special meeting with Little Juan and Jack Ballet.

And Jack Ballet gave to him a t-shirt from the NASA's letters. It was a really nice experience. That's so cool. You know, meeting again, Jacques Valet is the rock star of Euphology for no matter what country you come from. And we will definitely talk about Jacques Valet and how he became a part of this. But before we get to that, Alan, I want to ask you about traveling to Paraguay to interview several members of the Guarani people, distant ancestors of Juan. So how did you come to discover that this is where one, you know, his lineage or his ancestors came from? And what did they have to say about Juan's experience?

Thank you for asking this because it's, for me, it's one of the most important things on the film. Absolutely. Well, the story is that my first step in this project was to go to Paraguay, because before I made this movie, I had two questions. One of them was if there is a connection between the ancestry or the lineage and the UFO phenomenon. on people that had these kind of encounters. And the other question was if there is a connection between the afterlife and the UFO phenomenon also. So that was my biggest question while I was shooting this story.

So I went to Paraguay because I wanted to have the answer from the spiritual leaders of the Guarani tribe, the Guarani people that are the blood of one. So I went there, I met three communities that are one of, they are very, very close communities because what many people are very strict with their connection with white people. They have the reasons, of course. Of course. I completely understand. When I was there, I met two white men and one.

wise women and it was a really powerful experience because when I met the first one Plutarcho he started to say to me like this phenomenon is real but it's not real at the same time and I said like what do you mean by that and he started to describe in his words because when you talk with shamans or with indigenous people the way they speak, it's very abstract, very symbolic, and you need to decipher what they are telling you. So they were describing me this phenomenon as an holographic phenomenon. And while he was speaking to me about this, I remember all the books from Jack Ballet explaining us the theory of interdimensional theory about that this phenomenon could come

from another dimension and they were telling the same thing and another thing that they mentioned to me is that this kind of encounter happens to people with good heart with pureness

with innocence and that feeling and yes that thing was one of the most significant things that Juan had because Juan had

One is purely hard, it's pure heart, it's so innocent. And the other thing was like it's something that got me a little bit scared. It's not part from, it's not in the movie, because it was really hard to explain, but Sylvia especially told me that this phenomenon has two sides. One side represents the good. And the other side represents the evilness. So she was trying to say, like, we don't have to be blinded by these things.

We don't have to be blinded by the light that comes from the sky. We need to, we as human beings, we need to be able to, how do I say, decipher? or decode which side belongs that phenomenon that is happening for a reason, of course but sometimes

they have like bad intentions for us so it's not good to make like a cult or a religion around this kind of phenomenon we need to be very very like practical and she told

to Juan that this happened because Juan needed to believe he was trying to find himself in that time because he was 12 years old and for for the shamanic world the year of 12 is very important because it's the transformation into a grown man into an adult and there are plenty of rites of passage to summarize for them one had an issue a shamanic initiation. But it was like stopped because at that time he hadn't a shaman that could guide him into this world. But 40 years after, he, 40 years after, thanks to our work with Jack Ballet, with Dr. Ernesto Berlanta, with all the shamans, one could integrate his experience and understand why this happened. to him because that was the only question that he had all the night. Why this happened to me? That seems to be the biggest question with any contactee or experiencer. It's not so much,

what is the phenomenon? Who is in control of it? But why? Why me? And I've spoken to many experiencers and that is their first question is why was I chosen or why did this become a part of my life? And that is a question they may be asking themselves until, you know, they leave this mortal earth. But for one, I think you're right. He finally was able to finish the initiation that seemed to have been interrupted at such a young age. Exactly, exactly. And I know moving forward after the experience, Juan had many dreams. And dreams play a big role, both in Juan's own life and in the lives of the Guarani people as well, Ellen. So could you maybe tell us the connections you and Juan made in terms of the dreams he had after the experience?

Well, that's a good question because when I, when Juan started to speak to me about, his contact, his experience, I wasn't be able to find traces of the trauma because it was not a traumatic experience. It was more like a, yeah, a contact with strange beings, but there was no surgery, there was no experiment, something very scary that could lead you to a very traumatic hole. So after a while of research, I realized that the most terrific part for Juan was the consequences of this encounter. Because immediately after his contact, he started to have premonition dreams, precognitive dreams. That was a truly nightmare for him because he was dreaming about accidents, about death, from relatives, from friends. And plenty of them happened, and he couldn't stop them. So it was really frustrated for him.

So I wanted to understand what was the process of those dreams. And Juan told me that if he dreams in his right side, the side of his mark, because Juan, after this tall being squeezed his arm, he had like a small scar in his arm and when he dreams with his right arm he tells me that he goes into a real dream more real than our reality that's the way he described them

but if he dreams into the left side he will have like regular visions like we do in when we dream. Interesting. Very interesting. And then I realized the other thing that the warning people, the way that they connect to the spiritual world is thanks to the dreams. They go to sleep and they dream about the question that some people had.

For example, if I have an illness and I want to have an answer, the shaman goes to bed and then, the morning after he will tell me the answer of my pain. So Juan, in a way, the phenomenon, the contact triggered him his own gift from his people, but he didn't know that. It's that discovery, that self-discovery, and having someone to help guide you. So the fact that he was now able to communicate with the shot. That must have been a very special moment for both him and for your film, I would assume.

Yeah, indeed. Because by that time, while we were shooting, Juan was thinking that he was the only one that had this kind of experience. He never knew that there are plenty of cases around the world. there are people that are having dreams like the Warreni and he felt that he was really alone in this like this trip because around his people there were no one who had this kind of experience

and Juan doesn't have internet now he doesn't use like a cell phone so it's really really simple the way he lives Right, and a lot of people believe that that is actually a good thing. I know in the film, many of the Guarani people speak of the distractions that occur. Yeah. You know, mostly, well, throughout the entire world, but here in America as well, we have so many distractions, whether it's politics or celebrities or any of these things in our day-to-day life.

that distract us from opening that door to a shamanic world. And it seems so easy for someone like the shamans or the Guarani people specifically to accept these phenomena, that they just are a fact. They exist when many in other countries refuse to either believe that or accept that into their lives. I mean, here in America, our own government, is just now acknowledging the UFO phenomenon officially when for 70 years they have denied it. So I find that very interesting,

the difference between cultures and how they interpret and accept or reject the UFO phenomenon. Totally. Me too. Me too. Well, sort of the individual, Ellen, that I would say, was the bridge between cultures in this. incident was Jacques Valet. One of the most important moments for me in the film. How did that come about? How were you

able to get Jacques Valet, the man who does not do many movies, interviews, documentaries? How did you get him to be involved with your film? Well, the story was that I wrote him a letter

telling him that I was doing this film, that one was not feeling well after his experience he got a big trauma and 30 years later he still has it and my only request was to go to San Francisco and make an interview to him and one month later I received an email saying that I was he was really sad about Juan and by that time I didn't know that he would remember that case because it was one of plenty of cases that he studied. But then I realized that he came to Argentina in 1980 with his wife,

and his wife, Janine, was a child psychologist and was a truly special case for them. It was a very, yes, special because it was, it was involved. it involves a child. So they really care about this kind of cases. And he told me that he was really sad about Juan, that he couldn't integrate his experience. He was also inviting me to San Francisco to make this interview. And I said, like, yeah, I made it.

And I started, and then I finished that letter. But one sentence before I finished, says like something like I don't want to bother you or interrupt your project or your idea but I think it could be a great idea if I come down and go to Argentina to help Juan and to stay with you guys oh wow and I say oh my God what a gift and it was a truly gift for me and for all of all of us and then I started to change my script to change my script to change my my points of view my ideas and all my yeah all my my idea now was tried was focused mainly to help one that was the only mission on our movie but I have to say

that in the beginning of this project the idea was to get answers of this phenomenon to try to explain what is this UFO phenomenon, what we are dealing with. But I had to turn over because I was dealing with a broken man asking for help

just by the way he looks. And yet, I have to quit the other idea, the previous one, and then I only focus on the human aspect of the UFO phenomenon. Which I firmly believe

Alan, I can agree that that is much more important than what actually lay at the source of the phenomenon. It's how it affects us and how it changes us and how it humanizes us even, makes us more human than we were before. And I think that came across through the lens of your camera so well. And one of those ways I think you really helped one is you found other witnesses who had seen things. at the same time as his event. And, you know, without giving away too much,

Carlos and Roberto were two individuals who almost vindicated or validated the experience of wine. Am I correct in that? Yeah, you are correct. And Jack Ballet was the one who encouraged me go to find them because they were under the radar. And after some research, I found them and I asked them to be part of my movie. I will do some little interviews and that's it.

And the two of them were really open about that idea. But they are still really scared about what happened more than 30 years ago. And the good thing is that Juan was the only one who go into the contact. He wanted to have that contact. But Carlos and Roberto, they ran away immediately after because Roberto was like riding a bicycle and then a big light, red light started to light him and he was like stood and then he ran away and Carlos the same. But one of the good things that I noticed from them is the innocence. And then I remember the words from Plutarcho that this kind of experience happened to people that are playing. Like, they have good hearts, they are innocent. And I saw like a connection between Juan, Carlos, and Roberto because three of them had like a child expression in their eyes.

and I make like a reunion with there is a scene that it's not part of the movie that Carlos, the Carpenter and Juan meet each other and it was a really nice gathering because they started to speak about their experience and it was really, really, really fun to see each other. It was like an X-Men reunion. Yeah. Talking about their powers. Right. I can only imagine. I would love, I hope you'll do bonus content where we can see that scene. Cool. I will.

I can imagine that was a very powerful moment for all three of them. And wow, that's fascinating. Well, Ellen, I do want to ask you, a big focus in the film as well is consciousness and how that plays a role in all this. And that seems to be something you end. and Jacques Valet have in common when it came to your discoveries in trying to understand what the phenomenon is.

And you, personally, in the film, you say that it's almost like projections on a movie screen. And that is a good analogy for you, the filmmaker, to say. So could you maybe elaborate

on what you mean by this projections on a movie screen in relation to how consciousness may be a part of the UFO phenomenon? Well, it's hard to explain. Yeah, it's one of the biggest. When I read the book of Carl Young, the famous psychologist that speaks about the UFO phenomenon, he tells us two things that the UFO phenomenon has a physical aspect, and he's not an

expert from that field, but he's an expert in psychology. So he focused on the psychology consequences on those encounters. And it was really visible in Juan, in Juan's case. You can perceive that there was a specific consequence on his conscious. And after that, he was able to have those dreams, these pre-cognitive or premonition dreams. but Juan at that time he wasn't able to like to trace a connection between his contact and those dreams and apparently many of the witnesses are not able to trace this connection

for example in the case of Carlos I ask plenty of things that are related to some powers or some strange things that could happen to him after the contact. And he always told me, no, no, I had a normal life. Nothing happened to me, blah, blah, blah. Every time they contact this tells me the same thing, that they had a really normal life, that it was something that was random, perhaps. But after a while of chatting,

he told me an experience that he was cutting, wood on his machines and suddenly one of his fingers was cut off and he took the rest of his finger and he realized that no blood was coming out of his finger and it was really strange for him and then he goes to the hospital and the doctor said what the hell why is no blood in your finger and he said that I don't know and there was a common joke among his family that says like you are you were being held

by your friend the aliens because everyone was laughing at him but the other part was that Juan Carlos told this experience to Juan and Juan replied to him like the same happened to me

when when my leg was cut up no blood came out of my my leg And then I start to realize that plenty of contactees are not able to make connections with these things because they do that as an accident because they don't want to feel special. When you have a real contactee, you know that they are telling the truth because they don't want nothing from it. It's preferred to never happen to him. It's more like a curse rather than a gift.

So I truly believe in Carlos, Robert, and Juan experience because of that, because they are not winning money doing some lectures about their contacts or helping others, etc. So after a while of research, I started to see that the impact on their conscience is real, but the impact on their conscience is real. but the bad part is that it's really hard for them to integrate that experience because it's more in a subconscious level the impact rather than in a rational or the conscious level. You know, for anybody, it's very hard to even begin to comprehend consciousness. We don't know what consciousness is or is not even. So, you know, if this is the only way the phenomenon can really communicate with us,

or like you say, project certain images to us to convey their message, maybe that is the only way that we can ever connect with the phenomenon and the fact that it's happening through dreams or through the subconscious. It's fascinating. Now you are saying this. The shamans cut it like they, they, they, see the world of dreams as a much more real thing that our reality when we are wake up. So for them it's more, the dream world is way much more important than our reality.

And we don't know what reality means. We don't know nothing about what is reality. That's a very good point, you know. And we often think, you know, when we are asleep and we dream that we have to wake up from the dream when in reality, truly waking up could be in this other world. Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

I think we're on to something there, Ellen, for sure. Well, I have to ask, in terms of those who do experience these things, Alan, abductees, experiences, a lot of them become obsessed with the phenomenon after they experienced it. I had a UFO signing when I was 12 years old, and I became completely obsessed.

It consumed my entire life. You know, I now do a weekly podcast about UFOs. It runs most of my life, you know, to my girlfriend's dismay. But do you think it's our place to try to figure out what the phenomenon are? Or should we just experience it and appreciate it when it happens? Because for some people, that obsession can become unhealthy, I would say. Yeah. So what do you think?

Well, I think the answer could be both, but the half of both. Because I think an obsession is not good for anyone. Any kind of obsession is not good because no extremes are good in our life. lives. But it's not good also to just live that experience and that's it, to ignore it. Because I think it's just my own idea, this happened for a reason. And each contactee or each experiencer had to deal why this happened to it. I don't think that we, why this happened to it. I don't think that the mission is to figure out what is the phenomenon. It's more like, I will take the words of grandfather Francisco, the last shaman in the movie,

that said that Juan was asking to himself. He was seeking into his inner world, trying to figure it out what is life, what is dead. because remember when Juan was 10 years old, he lost his grandfather. And his grandfather was everything to him. And at the age of 12, he was feeling really lonely, really lonely trying to get answers. And he got an answer from the spiritual world in a way that he couldn't integrate or he couldn't interpretate. So I think that it's really important It's like a carrot in front of us

And it's that Lead us to find answers to our Iner questions And I remember now the scene from Morpheus Matrix that he has two pills And you have to choose if you want the blue pill Or the rose pink or the red pill I think the phenomenon

ask us the same thing. If we want to still dreaming or we want to wake up and see what is our reality, what is this phenomenon, what our disconnection. I think the UFO phenomenon

is the most important phenomenon that hacks our world, our reality. That's a very interesting, yeah, way to put it. It may be the only the only phenomenon or, you know, technology that was able to jump over that hurdle and communicate with us. That's fascinating. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I have to ask Ellen, do you still speak

to Juan? Do you think he'll ever travel to America to talk about his story? Is that something you could see as a possibility? Well, it will depend on him, but if he gets an invitation, I think he will say yes because he loves to talk to people. He's really friendly. He's really warm. And now he has no fears. He now he's a resolute man. He can speak about his experience without crying.

So it's a lot. And yes, I'm still having plenty of conversation with him after three years. I used to speak with him to ask. a month or once a month if I can speak with Juan I will speak with his siblings because he has seven siblings

so yeah it's a big family so I'm really close to them I'm really close because it was not a healing process just to Juan it was a healing process to his whole family to his whole community

just to give you an idea when we show the movie in the cinema from Beno Duerto, his hometown, the half of the cinema was full of Perez family, the family of Juan. And after the movie was done, everyone was crying, and they went to straight into,

to Juan and started to embrace him, started to say like, I'm so sorry, brother, I'm sorry that I'm sorry that. I never trust on you. Now I understand you. Now I understand why you run away and lived all of this life, like in the loneliness. I'm so sorry.

And it was a really hard experience to witness that, but it was really like healing. It was really healing. For me, Alan, I cannot tell you just how powerful the film was and how important. and I think it is. And I can say this. I have never once cried during a UFO documentary, and I cried on several occasions. So you definitely did something right.

Yeah. Yeah, thank you. Thank you for saying that this documentary wasn't meant to cry, but it touched you. It touched your heart because, in a way, after you see this message, probably you will get some closure. in your life.

Juan could close a circle thanks to the movie and I have to tell you that Jack Ballet also closed a circle because it was a really special, the last time he came to Argentina was with his

wife. In some way he closed a circle about that intimate, how do I say, like idea or I don't know what happened with his wife but it was really emotional for him to be there again with Juan in Argentina, talking about this phenomenon, that after 30 years, it got us like reunited altogether. It was really, really emotional for us.

Absolutely. And I think you make a very good point that, you know, while it affects the individual having the experience, those investigating it or interviewing the people also are deeply affected by the story, by the phenomenon, and by the people having it. So for Jacques, for you, for me, for every person who sees the movie, it's going to have a different effect and maybe answer some questions,

but maybe pose new questions, which I think is even more important. Totally, totally. I think that that's the reason why we opened the door with this movie. We didn't want to get like straight, answers about what the UFO phenomenon is. So it could lead us to

have plenty of new questions. I love that. Well, I have to ask you, would you want to or do you plan on making any other films about the UFO phenomenon? Or was this it for you? No, it's not it. I have also a TV series idea trying to portrait plenty of witnesses around the world. And also my next project is not about UFO phenomenon specifically. It's about what is below earth, about this law civilization.

But I know for sure that there is a connection between this UFO, the UFO phenomenon, and this law civilization also. Oh, that's great. So you're returning to your original interest in mysteries. I love that. It's all come full circle. Yeah, it's a full circle. for me also. Yes, I wanted to make this happen because I will end my, like, let's say, trilogy of documentaries, and then I want to jump into fiction. That is my real passion.

I completely understand that. Yep, I am the same way. Well, Ellen, when and where can we find the film witness of another world here in America? Well, the film will be released on October 22nd, on multiple platforms and you can have the direct information if you go into our website it's witness of another world.com

perfect and I kind of want to end saying this to Alan Juan represents something truly special I think in all of us and I left your film believing more than ever that the phenomenon has many layers and perhaps

even many sources motivations. But I think what is most important is how it affects us on a human level. And it's reflected so beautifully in the film. It puts that mirror back onto us. And I truly feel that witness to another world will be a very important piece in this very mysterious, weird puzzle as we move forward. So I have to thank you, my friend, for the film and for also joining me on Somewhere in the Skies. Thank you, Ryan. Thank you. for inviting me and I'm really glad that

you like the film. That's it for this week's episode. Again, you can view Witness of Another World beginning October 22nd on most all streaming platforms. To learn more and to watch the film, visit Witness of Anotherworld.com. Please take a few moments to subscribe,

rate, and review somewhere in the skies on Apple Podcasts, your Android apps or wherever you get the show. It helps us out tremendously. I'm still looking for a couple of personal UFO stories for the next volume of witness accounts. If you'd like to share your story on the show, contact me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram,

or through the contact tab on the website, somewhere in the skies.com. We're on Twitter at SummerSkies and Instagram at SummerSkies pod. Thank you, as always, to E1, Roke Planet, KGRA Radio, and especially to you for listening. I'll see you here. next week and remember keep your feet on the ground but never stop searching somewhere

this is produced by third kind productions in association with the entertainment one podcast network to learn more visit entertainment one podcast.com