Somewhere in the Skies - Alien Autopsy: 25 Years Later

Episode Date: September 7, 2020

On episode 177 of SOMEWHERE IN THE SKIES, Ryan is joined by listener-favorite, Jason McClellan. The two discuss current news concerning the Pentagon UAP Task Force and the latest concerning Space Law. Can law actually be enforced in the outer reaches of the cosmos, or is it nothing but an intergalactic "Wild West"? Then the guys pull the VCR out of the dusty attic, brush off the cobwebs of their memories, and remember the moment they first saw the famous ALIEN AUTOPSY film! They discuss the controversy surrounding its origins, the convoluted story of how and why it was made, and why it's back in the news today concerning an interesting memo involving the CIA. Could the Alien Autopsy, having racked up over 2 BILLION views across the world, have been the greatest hoax of all-time? Follow Jason McClellan on Twitter @Acecentric Visit Rogue Planet at: www.RoguePlanet.tv Patreon: www.patreon.com/somewhereskies Website: www.somewhereintheskies.com YouTube Channel: CLICK HERE Official Store: CLICK HERE Order Ryan's Book by CLICKING HERE Twitter: @SomewhereSkies Instagram: @SomewhereSkiesPod Watch Mysteries Decoded for free at www.CWseed.com Episode edited by Jane Palomera Moore Opening Theme Song, "Ephemeral Reign" by Per Kiilstofte SOMEWHERE IN THE SKIES is part of the eOne podcast network. To learn more, CLICK HERE Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/somewhere-in-the-skies. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

UFOs seem to be invading both our skies and our news outlets like never before, and more people are starting to look up and are wondering who or what might be out there. In 2016, Ryan Sprague introduced the world to countless UFO encounters that had never been made public before. And now, in the second edition of his book, he revisits these events and introduces brand new UFO cases, in somewhere in the skies, a human approach to the UFO phenomenon. How have these events change the lives of those involved? And what might it tell us about the phenomenon? With in-depth follow-ups, brand-new chapters,

and detailed testimony from credible witnesses and insight from those in the psychological, academic, and scientific fields, somewhere in the skies, a human approach to the UFO phenomenon, weaves together a story of stories, attempting to get to the heart of these mysteries one experience at a time.

Available now on Amazon in both paperback and ebook. To learn more, visit somewhere in the skies.com. If what you are about to see is real, it's the most startling film footage in history. Although we remain skeptical, some excerpts believe this is authentic footage of an alien life form. Real or not, we must warn you. This appears to be an actual autopsy. Some of the footage you will see in the next hour is very gruesome. Stay with us, as we put the question to you. Alien autopsy, fact or fiction. This is somewhere in the skies with Ryan Sprague.

Today we're going to be talking about something that probably a lot of you are familiar with, but if you're not, we will try to catch you up to speed. It is the 25th anniversary of the alien autopsy film. And I've got a funny story about my first time seeing it. I know my guest will today. So without further ado, I'm going to bring him in. You know him best from Rogue Planet and the Unknown podcast. My buddy, my colleague, Jason McColl.

clone. How you doing, man? Hey, hey. I'm wonderful. Ryan, how are you? I'm good, man. I'm good. I reached out to you, what was it yesterday about doing this? Yesterday, yeah. Yeah, yeah. That's just like me, right, to give you so much time to prepare. That's how it goes. That's how it goes. I know. This is going to be fun. But before we talk about the main part of this, Jason, the alien autopsy, I got to talk to you about your latest episode of the Unknown podcast. I listened to it last night. And look, it's something that a lot of us don't think about and was a huge hypothetical some 20, 30 years ago,

but it's becoming a reality. So I want to get it from you. You wrote a huge expose or article on this for Open Minds magazine in the past, but it's space law. So tell us a little about this most recent episode. Yeah, so space law is something that's fascinated me for a long time because I'm a space geek. And, you know, space is really the Wild West.

And you think about all of these, you know, private companies in this modern space race we're in, where private companies want to go into space and set up bases and mine asteroids and the moon and other celestial bodies for resources. And, you know, really, we know on Earth there's all sorts of regulations regarding business activities. So talk about going into space. Who owns space? who owns the moon, who owns asteroids. So these are all fun questions.

And existing space law, the way it exists right now, you know, it was formulated back in the 60s, back during the original space race. And back then, space was, you know, it was thought of as this science fiction type thing. Like, yeah, we were going into space, but a lot of the things being contemplated were thought of as these far-off things that were never going to happen or we're going to happen far in the future, so we don't need to worry about them now. So, you know, there's a lot of ambiguities when it comes to space law, to laws in space. And we're also dealing with a lot of different countries, right?

I mean, we have enough issues getting people here on Earth to follow, you know, shared laws. And when it comes to space, how do we get all countries on board to follow the same laws when it comes to space? And that's proving to be a problem, right? because now we do have companies like getting really close to mining asteroids for resources. And the current space law, all space law is primarily based off the outer space treaty, which was created in 67. And, you know, not every country signed on to this treaty. Not every country adheres to this treaty.

And in recent years, other countries and United States notably has basically, said, you know what, we see your treaty. That's all fine and good. But we're entitled Americans and we don't recognize your treaty. Like, you have fun with that. We're going to go do our own thing. We don't recognize that space is for the greater good for, you know, viewed as an international commons. We're Americans. So we have the right to take our own resources from space. So that's causing some problems. And there's been a recent, uh, recent outcry. asking the UN to step in, basically, and take the lead on trying to establish some form of uniform international regulations that everybody can agree to and abide by.

I mean, even with the laws, who's going to enforce them, right? I mean, unless you want to believe that there is a secret military in space right now and they have the ability to, like, zoom and shoot people for doing bad things. Like, they're not really going to be able to, like, be space police and go and enforce laws in space. I mean, people are going to do what they're going to do. It's a crazy wild time right now, and people are kind of making things up as they go.

Right. And I think that's the big part of it is every country has their own agendas and motives when it comes to trying to draft these laws. And, you know, like you mentioned in the episode, a lot of countries have never been to space. They don't have space programs. Yet what I think is interesting is they do get a say in this. Apparently, you know, when it comes to the UN's involvement,

It's good to see the UN doing something. That's the idea. That's the idea behind this latest push to give non-space-faring countries a voice when it comes to establishing these policies that really affect everybody. And going back to the Outer Space Treaty from 1967, that specifically states that, you know, space and activities in space are for the benefit of all humanity. And that's always been the contention here with companies that want to go and make money in space. They want to mine asteroids for resources. They want to mine the moon. How does it benefit all of humanity if a private company is profiting, you know, making money?

How is it benefiting all of humanity? Some have made some interesting and creative arguments. But, yeah, it's interesting. Business people are good at making creative arguments. Oh, yeah. Well, that's another, exactly. Yeah, yeah, it shows good business. The other kind of, there's two other things I found really interesting in both the article.

wrote and this episode of Unknown. One was this idea of property versus, you know, actually the celestial body, let's say. Let's say you go to the moon. Can you lay stake on the moon as property? This law was pretty interesting. Would you kind of maybe my kind of running us through this whole thing, the moon treaty? I'm with you, man. Well, there's certainly the moon treaty from 1979 and most people don't pay any attention to it because only a handful of countries really signed on to it. So most people don't view it as being anything worth of note. But when it comes to, the Outer Space Treaty touches on this and we're talking about property ownership in space because, you know, people want to go and lay claim to a, you know, a piece of property on the moon

or a piece of property on Mars. And even now, this issue's come up because you've got so many companies out there. You can look online and find companies that will sell you property, you know, sell you deeds to land on Mars and on the moon. And legally, can that be done? And the answer is no with current space law with the outer outer space treaty. It prohibits anybody actually owning a piece or an entire celestial body. But when it comes to structures, like bases on the moon or on an asteroid or, you know, landing rocket ships or having gas stations or things like that on these bodies, the current law says that that's okay. You can do that. But here's where it gets interesting. So you can own the structure. You don't own the soil beneath it. And that's again, another strike

against people who want to own the minerals, want to mine and own those resources. You can't lay stake to the ground below, but you can own the structure that you put there. But all structures, all like moon buggies, you know, any transportation devices, whatever you have there has to be open and available for any astronaut. So you spend the money and build this, you know, colony or settlement or whatever you want to put up there. That's great. But then you have somebody from another country come knocking on the door. You've got to like open it up and let them stay there if they want. It's really weird and makes it very complicated from a business standpoint, right? I mean, if you're trying to operate a hotel or something where you're charging people on Earth to, you know, hundreds of thousands of dollars, hundreds of thousands of dollars to come up there and stay in your space hotel.

But then like an astronaut from another country, just like come up and you're obligated to let him stay there for free. So kind of interesting, kind of interesting. Yeah, yeah. Again, it's just like we're stumbling along as we continue to. Stumble is a good word, yep. You know, explore the stars. And, yeah, the Wild West, I think, is the best way we could possibly put this. And everybody's just interpreting these things the way they want and the way that fits their individual motives.

But, yeah, space law is a very specialized area. There are people who specialize in this field. And in fact, NASA is currently hiring for a space law attorney, interestingly. But, yeah, I think back when I first started looking into space law, it was when I was doing research for the article I was writing for open minds at the time. And that's when I really loaded up on my space law books. So I added to my library with some good space law books. But, you know, I mean, that was a long time ago. And there's certainly many more by now. And I also did some additional research. I think I even wrote about this when I was with Two the Stars. So space law has been, again,

it's just something that I find incredibly fascinating. It's developing. It's a budding thing, even though it's been around since the 60s, but we're just now seeing people think about this as a serious thing, that because of the current space race and all of commercial space activities happening right now, this is something that needs to be revisited and revised to have some legal framework that actually works.

And here's the thing. Let's say it's implemented. We're all on the same page here on Earth about space law, But then, you know, there's that curveball that could be there. And that's the possibility of extraterrestrials. So again, I want people to go listen to the episode because you get deep into all this. But let's talk a little about where does ET play into all this. It's one thing for us to create space law on our planet and colonizing and property and drilling.

But then, like, boom, what if we get to a planet, let's say Mars? and it's already inhabited. Does our space law even count anymore when it comes to another civilization? Yeah, what do you think about all that, Jason? Yeah, see, these are all big issues that a lot of people spend time thinking about and things that need to be addressed. But just like we see here on Earth with issues of jurisdiction and extradition, it's a mess. And, I mean, bring other planets into it, other worlds, other civilizations.

it would be a nightmare. Yeah, if we're on Mars, we lay stake to, you know, some area on Mars or try to establish a colony or a settlement. And there are some Native Martians there. They come and say, hey, you put this stuff on my land. Sorry, it's mine. What are you going to do? Can you, can you take them to court in the United States? If it's a United States company, why would Martians even blink an eye at United States law from some civilization on Earth? it's, you know, just a complete mess. And I'm glad the UN is involved because it does need to be an international effort here on our planet when it comes to thinking about these issues and establishing these laws. Because it is any sort of intergalactic legal issues that arise are going to affect the entire planet, all of humanity.

So it needs to be a unified effort because we're then on a global scale, a planetary scale. when it comes to the laws and the issues. And then, I mean, we can't even fathom some of the issues that we'd face. Our laws are written to deal with humans, with people. Yeah. You know, and we're dealing with issues related to that now here on this planet. We're, you know, trying to get some of those laws that specifically only apply to people to apply to animals as well.

So then thinking extraterrestrial, it gets wild. And I love, I love reading some of the stuff that even goes down that route. but it's all just thought at this point. Until it becomes real, right? Yeah. I think it's super... Right. Exactly.

Look at how rapidly we're moving. It's insane. Gary Borges is in the chat. He was one of the gentlemen that was first to witness the Tick-Tac UFO event. So, you know, he has a lot to sort of, to suggest with all this. And he says, Space Force. I mean, I remember talking to an Air Force guy recently, and I asked him, hey, why is the Air Force not really getting involved with all this UFO stuff?

The Navy is, the Army is. And he told me flat out, we are. We created an entire new branch of the military to deal with this. So now you've got the idea of space law, but then militarizing space too. I mean, did you watch the Netflix series that came out? I didn't. I had high hopes for it, but I was turned off because of all the negative comments about it. But it was, I liked it.

I actually, I watched the whole thing. It was cheesy at first, but it actually got pretty deep and interesting. And it did show you kind of like, all right, new branch of the military. How do we make ourselves known? How do we make ourselves important enough to get the military budget we need as the new Air Force slash Space Force? So I thought that was pretty interesting. You know, they were training for battles on the moon or, you know, what would happen if we got there and China already had something there. that we didn't know about and how do you deal with these sort of things.

So, you know, for as much as it might have been cheesy and a comedy, I thought they brought up some really interesting stuff that maybe will come true someday. I don't know. Yeah, we'll see. I'm hopeful. I am too. I am too. Well, everyone, go check out the latest episode of the Unknown podcast to learn more about space law.

It's very interesting. It is. Let's see. What else do we got, Jason? We've got, oh, the UAP Task Force. Now, this is something that we've known about for a while now. It's been making headlines all across the world. So yeah, man, what do you think? I know you're kind of on the side of you don't think this bill is going to pass necessarily. If I'm mistaken, please correct me. But a lot of people think it's going to pass with flying colors. Some think it's not going to happen. And we're talking about the Senate intelligence bill, not necessarily the UAP task force. That's happening. But let's go back for a minute to the bill. What do you make of this bill and is it going to happen?

What do you think? Well, that's the thing. I mean, everything we know about the task force is really nothing at all. You know, we've been given a sentence or two directly from the Pentagon. And that tells us some general things about what they're going to do. I mean, they want to understand UFOs better. but we still don't know what exactly they're going to do, how they're going to do that. If they're going to work with other agencies, we just know that it's going to be led by the Navy.

And that's really it when it comes to the task force. Everything else that people are assuming the task force is going to do is based on the Intelligence Authorization Act for fiscal year 2021 that has been attached to another bill that still has yet to pass the House. house and we'll see if that does. The likelihood that it will pass has gone up, but still, because this was attached as an amendment, we don't really, we can't really see the final wording that was attached. So we don't know if a lot of the stuff about the requested report about UFOs, the assessment of UFOs, is even included. And if it is, if it's been changed at all from what we initially saw in the original comments listed with the Intelligence Authorization Act. So again, we're just doing a lot of assuming. And in that, that is where we get the comment

about information being collected or being given for this report by the task force, but not how the task force is doing that or what the task force specifically is doing. And people keep talking about the task force as this big thing that's going to be this open government, giving all the all the information to the public. Again, we don't have any concrete evidence that that is going to be the case. That's all coming again from the comments that were listed in this bill that say that this report being requested will be, they want an unclassified version of the report submitted. That's nice. That doesn't mean we want to broadcast something in a press release to the public. It just means it's unclassified.

There are lots of things unclassified. You know, most things related to UFOs are unclassified, but it takes people like John Greenwald doing strategic and crafty digging with cleverly worded FOIA requests to get those unclassified files released. So, again, we don't have any guarantee or even a mention that we're getting information from the task force released to the public. We just go back to the Intelligence Authorization Act in the request for a UFO report, and that report is supposed to be given in an unclassified form. So everything after that is just speculation.

Exactly. Exactly. Well, okay, so moving to the task force, I guess, what do you think? Are we going to get anything? I mean, again, that unclassified part of this is where we're all excited. hopefully maybe we'll get some new videos. You know, Luis Alizando, Tom Blonde, have sort of teased. Like, there's more to come in terms of like what we're going to be releasing, whether it's through the New York Times, working with them or their television show, whatever it might be.

Is this Project Blue Book, as someone mentioned in the chat 2.0? Or you think we're actually going to get some information out of this? I mean, I would like to see Project Blue Book 2.0. but from what we've heard of the task force, this is completely different. This isn't a cast your net wide type situation where they're looking into, you know, citing reports from the public, from even the FAA or commercial airliners, commercial pilots. This is specifically looking at the military primarily. There's hints that it's looking at other things as well, but it's primarily looking at military sightings

and incursions over military installations. and specifically focused on the Navy. So it's far from Blue Book in that it's not casting a wide net. It doesn't really seem to be wanting to take in a full picture of the UFO mystery. I hope that's not the case. And my biggest hope here and the biggest positive that I got excited about with the Intelligence Authorization Act, the comments and the request for the report was this desire, seeming desire, that they want to improve communication.

They want all these different agencies to communicate on this issue and share information. That's something that doesn't happen. And obviously, if you want to get any sort of answers related to this, you need to be sharing information. But you're dealing with branches of the military. Branches of the military all have their secrets. They've got all of their, you know, individual, you know, projects they're working on. they're not necessarily going to be very excited to share all that with other branches. I mean, yes, we're all on the same team, but at the same time, they're their own branches,

and that's number one. So it'll be interesting to see. I want to see the communication lines improve. I want to see them establish, you know, a formal way of these different organizations communicating with each other, sharing that information, and assigning somebody to head that up, to be responsible for making sure this information gets shared. And then, you know, hopefully we can get some answers from that. But it's a long shot.

Been down this road before. And that's something that frustrates me with the task force. I mean, I hope they're looking at history and seeing what has been done before, seeing what didn't work before, and trying to overcome those hurdles and get beyond, you know, what Blue Book accomplished. I mean, there are lots of roadblocks here. and I hope they can achieve something that's worthwhile. But as you know, Ryan, I always say I support people doing all the things all the time.

So good on them. Of transparency, too. I mean, this is an opportunity for the public to trust our government again when it comes to this topic. So I'm hoping that we can build that relationship again. I think that's what people like Luis Elizondo are trying to do is like show the public that you can trust the government. You can trust the military completely. Never, never going to happen. But it's a start.

And I think the other really good thing you brought up is this idea of the intelligence agencies kind of coming together and figuring this out together rather than stovepiping and having different agendas in terms of what they're going to do with this information or how it can be implemented into certain branches of the military or stuff like that. So, yeah, if anything, hopefully this will build a trust. between us and a government who a lot of people think have lied to them for 70 plus years on the UFO topic. So yeah, we'll see what happens. We'll see. But it is interesting, you know, the push to change the narrative, change the mindset when it comes to military and UFOs. Yet some of the people leading that charge are saying, look, the military screwed all this up. The military's hiding all this information. military what didn't work, you know, when it came to this effort.

So we love the military, yet military's good. Let's get back and have the military facilitate all of this. I love this by Audrey. She says perhaps the release of new information will come in the form of the new animated X-Files comedy. So for those of you who don't know, Jason was the first to actually pick this up and put it out to the Twitter sphere from what I saw. Fox is possibly developing an animated X-Files show. Jason, what do you think, man? Are you going to watch it?

What can we expect from this? I know it's super early. Well, if it does come to fruition, of course I'll watch it. How many episodes that's to be seen. But going into it, again, with anything UFOs, you have to know what you're going into from the start. And, you know, if it's not something, knowing what you know going into it, if it's not something that would ordinarily appeal to you, don't bother with it. You're just going to be

frustrated. But, you know, I think if you've been in the UFO field long enough, and I don't know, you just learned to not take yourself too seriously, first of all, number two, don't take the subject of UFOs too seriously. Yes, it's a serious issue, but you've got to be able to laugh at it too and have some fun. I mean, this is not only our serious passion, but it's also our entertainment. It's a subject that we're passionate about. It's a subject we like. So I like it in entertainment

form as well. Now, when it comes to the X-Files animated show, it sounds like it could be really bad because this is, the way they build it is these are like flunky agents who take the cases that

like even Mulder won't take. So it sounds like it's going to be really bad, but I like the X-Files. I like UFOs. I like paranormal stuff. So I'll give it a chance. I need some mindless humor these days.

We all do. We all do. And, you know, if the Simpsons episode, the, what is it, horror nights or whatever they do, treehouse of horror. There we have. Their X-Files episode was freaking awesome. So if it's anything like that, I'm totally going to watch. I, hey, Gary Vorhe says the, what was it, the reboot of the X-Files was horrible, so he doesn't have much pain in whatever comes next.

I'd have to agree with Gary on that one, unfortunately. But I guess moving on to the main event of the day, what we're here to really talk about, the alien autopsy film. What's up, guys, Ryan Sprague here, and I'm just dropping in to remind you about our Patreon campaign. Somewhere in the Skies is always free to consume, but it's not free to create. So if you want to help the show on a monthly basis, we have tons of rewards for you in return, including shoutouts on the show and website, bonus content and episodes, and free merge. Want to be my guest or pick a topic for the show? You can do that too. So if you'd like to learn more and to help support the show, visit patreon.com slash somewhere skies.

Thank you and keep looking up. aired on Fox in 1995 with host Jonathan Frakes, I believe it was, from Star Trek. Yeah, dude, I don't remember. So 95, I was 12 at the time. And I had just had my UFO sighting like months prior to this thing coming out. So I was still very new. I know. And I was terrified, man, when I first saw it.

I remember sitting down with my parents. you know, talking to my dad about like UFOs and we have to watch this thing tonight. And we started watching it in like 20 minutes in. I was like too scared to keep watching it. Yeah, dude. It's like it's like when JFK was shot and we learned the news. I have to ask Jason, where were you when the alien autopsy first came into your personal zeit, I guess.

I was in high school, but I remember it was. was big news. It really was. I mean, it made this random splash. And I remember seeing them teasing it in the periodic teases for the like 9 o'clock news or whatever. They talk about how they were going to be talking about the alien autopsy coming up on the 9 o'clock news. And there were commercials leading up to it. I don't remember how far in advance, but I remember seeing it. I said, what the hell is this? Alien autopsy. Are you kidding? And it was being presented as this big, big event that was taking place and it was real and and people were very serious about it. Yeah, I thought, I don't know, I was 15.

So I guess I didn't think I was drunk, but it was weird. It was like an alternate reality. I was like what's going on? But yeah, I just remember how big, big of a deal the media was making it. Yeah, yeah. And I mean, let's, I guess we should kind of dive into the whole story behind this because, there's a lot to it. It's a little convoluted, but I

should also mention, I think I mentioned this on my last stream. I actually, I recorded this Fox special off of our VCR back in those days when you could do that. And I brought it into school eventually. And yeah, I brought it into school

and it was that time of the year where the teachers were checked out. They like, you know, they would do anything to just not teach. And I was like, pop this in the VCR, let's watch this. And the minute I put it on, like half the class was like glued to the TV watching. And half the class was like scared.

I remember this one girl, Liz, I won't say her last name, but she was petrified after we started watching it. She was crying. She left the room, went to the bathroom, came back and said she got sick because of watching this alien autopsy. And my teacher never forgave me for that. I never, I didn't forewarner on what it was. And, but hey, she let us watch the entire thing. So that's her fault. But yeah, those are my memories of the original airing of this thing.

But now we know it was a hoax. We know that this was made in England. So what do you know about the timeline of all this, Jason? I've got kind of the bullet points here. But Ray Santilly, let's start there with this dude. Yeah. So Ray was a London businessman. And he called.

that he stumbled across U.S. military cameraman in 1992, and he was in Cleveland, Ohio, and he was looking for, like, archive footage of Elvis and other rock and roll stars, I guess, and that's what he found his cameraman. And he claims that the film that he got from this guy showed the autopsy of a dead alien recovered from the crash in Roswell, New Mexico, in 1947. So he contacted this guy named Spiros, and Spiros was a filmmaker, and Ray wanted to make a documentary about this footage of a real autopsy of an alien. And Spiris wasn't having it at first because he claims that when he went to meet with Ray Santilli, Ray showed him the footage, and Spiros was like, are you kidding me? because again, Ray was presenting this as being this real film and everything and Ray's

all. This was obviously shot on video. And it just like caught Ray off guard that Spiros could tell this right away and he saw, well, shit, the jig is up. So like Spiros left and, you know, thought it was done. But he talked to his friend, John Humphreys, who's a sculptor, really talented sculptor. And they decided that, you know, doing this might open doors for them. They had ambitions of like working for Hollywood movies and stuff like that. They thought this

would get great exposure. So they decided to do it. So, so they did. And really, Spiros is the one who, who did almost everything for this film. You know, he designed and directed the film. He was the cameraman on it. His girlfriend did most of the research for the film. And there was a lot of research that went into this film, making sure that, you know, everything you see in the film is period, correct. You know, from the clock to the telephone, to the instruments that the doctors use, to the procedures that the doctors are doing. A lot of research went into it. And apparently that was Sparose's girlfriend who did that. She also played the role of the nurse in the film.

And the set was built in her apartment or in her house in London. It was being renovated and they had like an empty floor. So they built a set right in her house. So, you know, they put this thing together and John Humphreys created the alien. and he molded it from his 10-year-old son. And this thing came together. They made their film and, yeah, came out in, yeah, 95. 95.

And I think we, let's put this thing into numbers. Now, besides the Zapruder film and the Patterson, Gimlin, Bigfoot, in terms of controversial videos out to the public, this is like one of the top three. over two billion people have watched this footage. But your history is great on this, Jason. You know, the guy who made the alien, Spiros, the filmmaker. He is an interesting guy. And I've been listening to a lot of interviews with him lately. This guy is a magician, like a professional magician.

And he used a lot of those techniques in making this film. You know, you look over here why we do this or your mind is thinking this. 12. And you mentioned the research. And I thought that was one of the most fascinating parts of all of this. The way they created the alien is they created an entire backstory to this alien, where it came from, why it had six toes and six fingers. And I think it's amazing that they went to these lengths to try to fool the public. And that was their goal was to see if people would believe this. So I thought that was really interesting, too. The amount of research that went into this dead alien. and that we're seeing getting cut up. So they actually made two films, too. There were two alien autopsies. Let's talk about that. Yeah, yeah.

Would you mind covering that a little? After they shot the first one, Spiros' girlfriend apparently noticed a couple mistakes in some of the medical procedures that they were doing, so wanted it to be redone. So they made another second alien. And in the second alien, the foam latex used to fill the dine. dummy didn't work right. It developed an air bubble and left this hollow space in the leg. And so on the second one, that's why you have this leg injury. And they just like filled that with some bone and other stuff from animals and then took a blowtorch to it and made it look like

a burned area. And there you have a leg injury. So that was in the in the second one, not the first one. So the second one is the one that you see. Roderigo asks here about, do you have any insight? about the debris footage that came along with the alien autopsy. Now, from what I remember, this was part of the Spiros one, right? Yeah, so I think I'm trying to remember. I think John Humphreys also designed all that stuff. Yeah, I think so too. Again, this is so convoluted, this entire story.

There was, you know, the original footage, and then there was the tent footage, and then there was this, and then the remake, and then there was this, and then the remake, and this and that. And the funny thing, too, is Ray Santilli, we mentioned the guy who kind of put this whole idea together to sell alien autopsy footage to networks and whatnot. He claimed that he got the footage from a military person who gave it to him. And he kind of stands to that to this day that, oh, yeah, I have the original footage. Yes, this is a remake, but I have the original footage. But from what I can tell is we've seen the original footage now, and that's what made Spiro say, this is a piece of shit, and this is horrible. No one's going to believe it. We have to

remake this. So, yeah, there's, again, I'm trying to, like, piece all this together. There's so many different versions of this film than what we saw on Fox and all across the world. Well, and, you know, Spiros wanted to, the idea, the original idea was for them, and one of the reasons Spiros got behind it, and John Humphreys as well, is that the idea was to create this original film, fool everybody, and then later release a sort of how we did it video to show the world how they did it. Because it is really, really, you know, especially for the time, it was really well done to create this period piece. it's pretty remarkable what they accomplished with that tiny set and one alien and yeah, it was kind of fun. But then Ray decided that he couldn't do that

because the story he kept giving Spiros was that he needed to recoup his money. Well, little did Spiros, no, this guy was making money left and right, so... And Spiros was bound by an NDA, so he couldn't spill the beans you know, but he felt comfortable speaking after the 2006 Warner Brothers movie came out called Alien Autopsy that Ray Centilley did because the story was essentially told on that.

And around that time, Ray started talking publicly too about the whole thing. So that's when Sparrow came forward and basically told the entire story of it. And now you've got these conflicting stories by both of them. From what I can tell, the Spiros guy is his story seems to. check out. I mean, everything from, you know, showing how they made everything. And Ray Santillian comes out of this thing, not looking too good. Because like you mentioned, the idea was, like you said, to make a documentary about how they made it, how they fooled the world. And that's what Spiros wanted to do. Little did he know that Santilli was going and selling this footage all around the

world, except for in the UK, where Spiros would find out that he was doing this. Because the deal was we're going to give it for free to the news in the UK and see what they do with it. And that was the deal they made. And they did that. They gave it to the media in the UK for free. But little did Spiros know. Santilli was going all over the world in selling this and said, here's the footage, do what you want, make a special, investigate it, do your thing. And making all this money. And Spiros had no idea that he was doing this. And he also didn't know that a movie was being made by Warner Brothers on the making of this film. And Spiros was left out of that as well. So I feel horrible for this guy. Like, yeah, he did help in fooling the world, but

like he's a magician. He does that for a living. And he poured his heart and soul into making this thing. And it fooled the world. But he saw nothing from it. He made no money off of it. He got duped by the guy who kind of spearheaded this whole thing. And I guess the rest of history. Yeah. Yeah. And we also have Philip Mantle, one of the researchers in the UK, involved with all this too. Are you familiar with Philip Mantle and his work, Jason? I absolutely am. I absolutely am. And, you know, I direct anybody to Philip Mantle to, you know, hear the full story about this. He's done so much research into it. He's, you know, interviewed all these people and met with them personally and continues to follow the case.

I mean, Philip is the guy, you know, to follow for this. And, you know, we certainly had him write stuff for us at open minds, you know, covering this story. And, yeah, his research is awesome on this whole case. And I should say that I just watched a documentary series that Philip Mantle made with a documentary crew about this entire affair. So if anyone is interested in watching that and hearing the expanded version of all this, I believe it's called Alien Autopsy, The Search for Answers.

It's very well done. And it goes through all of this, you know, step by step. That's what brings us to current day. All right. So, Jason, I know nothing about this part. I'm going to admit, I know there were emails that were part of the whole, you know, Admiral Wilson leaks and emails and Eric Davis, blah, blah, blah. Right.

Yeah. Let's, if you can, give us the concise version of how Kit Green is involved with this and why the alien autopsy is back in the news today. Yeah, and that's really all I can give, because, you know, I don't bother to follow most of this anyway. But, yeah, it does go back to really Eric Davis memos, and Eric Davis memos being revealed to the public from Edgar Mitchell's estate. And this is just another one of those. And this is from a 2001 memo that Davis sent to Robert Bigelow and Colum Callum Keleher. about comments from Kit Green.

And Kit Green is a former CIA scientist. And Green apparently claimed that he was briefed at the Pentagon about an alien autopsy and shown photos that he says were consistent with Santilli's alien autopsy video. So he believed that the film was genuine. Now, this has been buzzing lately because allegedly, and I say allegedly, because I haven't seen confirmation of this, they just know it's been, been talked about, so I can't verify it, but allegedly Green now believes that he was being played by the Pentagon, being fed disinformation. So I think that opinion has changed. So that's the

word around the block. But yeah, that's why this all came in, came into discussion talking about this crappy alien autopsy film because of the Eric Davis memos. So. Yeah. Yeah. And you know, Ryan, Ryan, none of this matters because it's so ridiculous. Again, because the alien autopsy film to me is very much like Billy Meyer photos, right? Because Billy admitted that his photos weren't real because the men in black switched out his film with fake reproductions. But with the alien autopsy film, Ray Centilli, he did essentially admit in 2006 that the film isn't real, that he claims the real film was so badly damaged that it was unusable. so they shot this recreation of what was allegedly on the film.

So I'm saying what you see is fake. We recreated what was real, but that is fake. So yes, the alien autopsy film is fake. But you know what? I'm super excited because, and this has been a long time in the making, but Spiros is still working on his tell-all book. He's going to get to reveal everything, down to the backstory that you were talking about,

how they came up with, you know, the backstory for this, this E.T. And every step of the process of how they did everything and how they, they fooled everybody. So, I mean, that's a book. I'm definitely going to read. Absolutely. I think it actually releases this week, if I'm not mistaken. Oh, really? Yeah, Spiris is on, he's on Facebook. So you can reach out to this guy. I highly suggest people do it. He seems like a cool dude. And, hey, he created one of the biggest hoaxes of all time.

And, you know, if that doesn't give him some clout in the magician's alliance or what have you, then I don't know what will. Let's be honest. He's probably outdone every magician he's ever worked with. The best magic trick ever. Yep, yep, is to fool the public and to keep the UFO community hungry for that truth they want so bad. But, Jason, this has been awesome, brother. It's always a pleasure, my man, to chat with you.

I'm happy we finally got to hear each other's stories about how we first saw the alien autopsy. But, yeah, before we go, what are you up to? What can we expect over at Unknown and everything you're doing at Roke Planet? Well, you know, now after this conversation, I want to do an episode about the alien autopsy. Because thinking back to my days at Open Minds, I've got some other tiny. there because, you know, we had some pretty good connections to some people who were involved with that film. And, you know, including one of my former co-workers actually saw the first version of the video. Really? Yeah. So I might have to get into that more on an episode of

Unknown. So you've given me an idea there. But yeah, the biggest thing I'm working on now, I'm working on my next book. I'm not ready to shed details on that yet. But another book is in the works, making progress slowly on that, but certainly more progress than I have for a long time. So another book is hopefully coming by the end of the year. I know that feeling well, my man. Well, before we go, I do have a really good question here from Rodrigo. He asks Jason, Ryan, do you want disclosure or do you enjoy the UFO mystery as it is? This is a question we get a lot. Like, do we actually, as UFO researchers, want that truth we've been seeking all along? Or is it the journey that matters? So, yeah, Jason.

What do you think? I think this is a great question, and I think it's one that can't really be answered because disclosure is such a complex thing and a confusing one at that, because, in my opinion, there isn't a single answer, right? And I don't think anybody has a single answer or multiple answers that would definitively end, you know, our quest, our individual quests. I think if the government does make some announcement and reveal some information about something they might know or even about a specific race of extraterrestrials, a certain civilization,

that that doesn't end everything, you know, and in fact, that might just even signal a start of a brand new quest for us and fuel the fire because we know the universe is infinite. I believe that life in the universe is also infinite. So just because we have one person or one group giving us one answer that doesn't answer everything in the universe. And it's that, that quest for the unknowns in the universe that keeps us going. Absolutely. I couldn't agree more. I think the journey is way more rewarding than the destination because we're never, I don't think we're ever going to solve the UFO mystery. There's probably a million different answers to it. And it's probably far weirder and stranger than we ever could imagine. But hey, look, we're,

we're living in an age where we're getting acknowledgement by our governments, and that's more than we've had in a really long time. They've denied it for so long. So I think it's important to find those baby steps and move forward with it. The mystery keeps Jason and I both going. But before we go, Jason, where can we find everything you're up to? rogplanet.com. TV, that's our home for everything strange and on Twitter at Acentric. Perfect. And go listen to Unknown. Go learn about space law. And we'll see you guys on the other side. Jason, thank you for joining me again on Somewhere in the Skies, buddy.

Thank you, brother. Somewhere in the Skies is produced by Third Kind Productions in association with the Entertainment One podcast network.