Somewhere in the Skies - Behind the Camera of UFO History with Paul Kimball

Episode Date: July 20, 2026

Every time Ryan heads to Nova Scotia, it has become a tradition to sit down with filmmaker, author, and longtime UFO researcher, Paul Kimball for an unfiltered conversation. And this may be their most personal one yet. They look back on Kimball's remarkable career documenting the UFO mystery, beginning with his acclaimed film Stanton Friedman Is Real! and continuing through documentaries on Majestic-12, the Aztec crash, Cattle Mutilations, Chupacabras, and beyond. It's an honest, funny, and thought-provoking journey through the evolution of UFO documentaries and the lessons learned from spending decades chasing one of humanity's greatest mysteries. Watch Paul's Films: Stanton Friedman is Real!: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFIUlcmRwgw Do You Believe in Majic?: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_OAnSX0i0o&t=52s Aztect 1948 UFO Crash: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0heRKzcHtg&t=38s Best Evidence: Top 10 UFO Sightings: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Gd9ehcry-Q&t=2192s Island of Blood: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbRZLtei_4o Fields of Fear: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNnxkKxwrLY Join us at ANOMACON on September 12th: http://www.anomacon.com Send us a voicemail: https://www.speakpipe.com/SomewhereSkiesPod Patreon: http://www.patreon.com/somewhereskies ByMeACoffee: http://www.buymeacoffee.com/UFxzyzHOaQ Substack: https://ryansprague.substack.com/ All socials and books: https://linktr.ee/somewhereskiespod Email: [e-mail] Opening theme song by Septembryo Closing song by Per Kiilstofte Copyright © 2026 Ryan Sprague. All rights reserved. #UFOs #UFOdocumentary #Documentary #Chupacabra #CattleMutilations #Aliens #StantonFriedman #UAP #Top10 #Filmmaking #PaulKimball Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Bring it with SAP Grow. AI Cloud, ERP for any size business. Spectre Vision Radio. Welcome to Summer in the Sky. Guys, I am your host, Ryan Sprague, and today we are in Nova Scotia in studio with the one and only Paul Kimball. Why do you keep asking me on the show? I don't know. I don't know.

I don't know. I'm going to regret this. While our government's official position is not to speculate on this subject, we can't choose to let our minds explore other possibilities to use our imaginations. For if we consider the astro-scientists agree on one. point that the possibility of life elsewhere is not only quite probable, some feel is there without a shout. Let us suppose them that these objects are real space vehicles, extraterrestrial origin, and not an illusion of the mind. This is Somewhere in the Skies with Ryan Sprague. Welcome to Somewhere in the Skies. I am your host, Ryan Sprague. And to my left, yes, my left, your right, the one and only

Paul Campbell so you guys know what that means. I am back in Nova Scotia hunting ghosts, a cost. I have accosted the ghosts here in Nova Scotia. Freeloading at my house. I am. American freeloaders. We are in the wonderful Kimball Wooddown.

The sound that the house makes. It does. I think. It does. Late at night, it sings to you. Yeah. What is that? Is that you?

You know what's singing right? now your mortgage renews in a month at a higher rate thanks donald trump so yeah my 1.99 interest rate not happening thank you trumple's still skin so we're two minutes in and you've already alienated half your audience that's that's that's new for you two minutes yeah usually only takes one yeah just might sing me it needs them so I think our hats are honestries are going to be I've got this up to hide my 59-year-old double chin and plus the air conditioning is on in here. Yeah, feels pretty good. Feels pretty good.

Yeah. We are here and we are going to be talking all about. I hope so. Yeah, right? I don't, I'm, I'm out of it. I don't know where you are, man. Do you want to hope to this? I don't know what's happening.

I, welcome to the Joe Sorocco show, starring Paul Kimball with Ryan Sprague. No Joe Serocco to be done. That's an inside joke, folks. It is that you and I will get into a single listener of the show. Unless Joe's listening. Welcome to the, somewhere in the skies with Bright's break. Good job. Paul.

Can you believe somewhere in the skies is almost 10 years old? I can believe that, yes. Really? I can actually because it was 2017 or whatever we brought you up here for the Yes, so Terracon. Yes, that's true. Or actually, I think you came up before for the paraps, for the Paranormacom. Yes. Paracan.

Paracan. So that was about nine or ten years ago, and we only brought you up because we thought you could move tickets because you were a big media star. Did it happen? It didn't happen, no. Should have asked him how many of his books are in the remainder bins in Syracutes. Signed, folks.

You can get signed copies. I even signed them. They're still not moving. It's the economy's tough. Let's go with that. The economy is tough. I give my books away. and I still can't get people to read them.

So you people I've recently given it to, you know who I'm talking to. You haven't read my book. Well, you're going in the next one then. That's how I know when people read my book, you know, just put their names in it. And if they don't say anything. Yeah. Although I take the time to index, which means they don't actually have to read it. They can just go see if they're in the index.

Wow. You're one step ahead of me. I wouldn't index to save my life. That's way too much work. Anyways. We can get checked, BPT, to do it. Chaddy will do everything. Chaddy, index this for me.

Please. Okay. So the reason we're doing this episode today is it's become a tradition that every time they come to Nova Scotia, we record an episode. Either a top 10, a top five, Paul's least favorite UFO researchers. Don't think I've changed those five since. For example UFO researchers. I don't think you have. Yeah, we've done, I think your top five favorite UFO case.

I think we did as well. Can't remember what they were. Probably would give you a different list now, but there might be some similarities. Yeah, yeah. So if you guys haven't heard those episodes or watched, go back in the archives, you can find them all.

Just type in Paul Campbell. He's been on four or five episodes at this point, not including Esotericon, who did a live one of that. That was fun. Nobody ever thought. Nobody will ever, you didn't air that, did you?

I thought you guys, I wasn't even on it. I was in the living room cringing. I aired the, parts that could be aired. Where the fudes hadn't. Yeah. It got needed.

I got needed. Anyone who knows me knows you can't shut me up and anywhere there's a camera or Mike, I'm there. And even I dipped down to that one. Like I just went to the living room and went, oh, having a beer. Greg Bishop refused to even. Don't blame them. In fact, I think the only two shows Greg ever did of his podcast, so he refuses to air,

are that one. And he did air this one once live when I was in studio in L.A. It was the euphological death match, wrestling death match thing, where at the end, I think it was Stephen Greer fighting reality, because Greer had killed everybody else. And I believe Greer beat reality. But anyway, we made fun of so many euphologists within there like Don Eckers and stuff that Greg said, I'm never putting that up on my thing again. Don Ecker. I wonder why he's up to nowadays. About 80, 81 years old, maybe.

I don't know how old Don is. That's what he's doing 80. He must be getting up there. Yeah. So yeah, and the Anomicon. I've been on the Anomicon every year maybe, except this year. I haven't been invited. I'll get you in somehow.

No, that's fine. Yeah, we'll get you in. I'll be in France. Oh, that's right. No, I won't. When are you doing the Anamicon? September 12th. We'll be Anamicon, guys.

No, I'll be here. But then I'll be on my way to Scotland with the Haunted Heart and Soul team, which I'm returning to the Haunted Universe. to direct and write and because it's a television show and television is very similar to how i began my career making documentaries look at that i'm helping you out here pay attention so it's almost as if you wanted me on so i could talk about my documentaries is yes what the subject was so i thought it would be cool i'm currently guys i'm writing he's new at this i'm you would think yeah i'm currently finishing up my next book, which will hopefully be out at the beginning of 2027. I will have more

news on that soon. But I am writing an entire chapter on this man right here and my ghostly and UFO exploits with you. I have gotten so old. I have reached the age where people are now writing about me. Yes. An elder statesman, which we got to do it before we go, Paul. Whoa. Whoa. Darkness falls. I went there. Yeah.

All right. Well, it's probably coming sooner rather than later. Stop. No. No. We, but we've had some incredible conversations on the road and on these podcasts and stuff. But I've been doing a lot of digging into your filmography, whether it's UFO related, whether

it's your, you know, your feature films and stuff like that. And in my new book, I'm going to be tackling a lot of your UFO documentaries. So I thought this would be a cool opportunity to go down memory lane with literally every single UFO. Before I lose my memory. Yeah. We're all getting there. We're all getting it. Friends of my family.

This hat is really, anyway, continue on. This is what I get when I buy a hat in the United States. There. That doesn't work. Only the best quality. Actually, I love this hat. That's a cool one. What is it?

Free copy of Ryan's book, if you know what this hat is. Yeah. Not really. It's the Nashville. It's the single-aid baseball team in Nashville. Oh, that's pretty cool. Yeah, I got like three games there when I was down a few years ago. Oh, wow.

Super obscured. If any of you actually guessed that, please let me know before he said it, because I will send you a book. Yeah, you wouldn't normally associate Nashville with minor league baseball, but they have a really nice stadium and a really cool team. And I can't remember what they're an affiliate of, like which major league team, but one of them. Ours used to be the Syracuse Chiefs,

but they obviously had to change that for it. politically correct reasons. And now they're the Syracuse Springs. I wish. I wait. What are they now? They went from Syracuse Chiefs to the Syracuse Sky Chiefs, which didn't make things any better. No.

And now they're, oh, they're the Syracuse Metz. Yeah, that definitely doesn't make anything better. It does not. Yeah. Go back to Chiefs. Go back to Chiefs. I don't even like you should get rid of Chiefs, but Mets out. Yeah.

It's like my old high school was Prince Andrew High School. Yeah. Anyway, so they were they renamed the high school. I still call it in Sanjur High School. We all do those of us that went there. And they had a naming contest sort of. And they had like four or five different options. And the one they went with was Woodlawn High School. The dullest boring name he could come up with. It's the neighborhood that it's in. But many of the kids don't live in Woodlawn like I didn't. I grew up in the neighborhood called Port Wallace. So I don't want to go to Woodlawn High School. But, hell of, sorry, Dartmouth, which is the city I grew up. up in has it's called the city of lakes because i think there's 22 lakes in dartmouth so one of the lakes or city of lakes i can't remember which it was high school and that is the one i by far preferred and i voted for that one and they didn't pick it and it's just like woodlawn high school boring so when they rename rightly so some of these sporting teams to get rid of their somewhat racist connotations uh sometimes they hit i think Cleveland Guardians is okay.

Yeah. Washington commanders, not so much, but anything's better than redskins, so fine. Yeah. But in Canada, we have the Canadian Football League, and my favorite team growing up as a kid still is. We're the Edmonton Eskimos. And so on their helmet, they have E.E. That was their thing. So I was an Eskimos fan.

And they finally got around a few years ago to go, you know, let's ditch Eskimos. And so cool, what did they name themselves? The Edmonton Elks. like I don't know how many elks there are in to be fair I don't know how many anything that would start with the elephants or whatever but elks

that's all like so we're on a tangent folks but I don't want to talk about my films so Eskimos three syllables find something that starts with E that has three syllables because then stupid people like me can just transpose Eskimos to what has three syllables

elephants elephants there you go not elephants but at least Edmonton Eskimos to Edmonton elephants. Sounds to say. Edmonton Elks, it just sounds like there's two syllables missing off the end of the end of them. Yeah, you kind of, you want to keep going. So I now call them because they haven't won in years.

Edmonton shitty Elks. I think they're having a winning season this year, and they're one of the great franchises in CFO. But as soon as they changed their name, it was like they were cursed. They just started losing. And it's not because they changed their name. it's because they changed their name to Elks, which. I don't like it.

Yeah. I meant an elk. I mean, actually, if you've ever met an elk, they're really big and they can be quite frightening. Yes, I have met an elk. So, yes, right, late at that bar in Cheldron. Yeah. That night did not end well. No.

Nor the morning. That's, oh, never mind. Let's talk about me films. Okay. It's going to go down a rabbit bowl of bad taste jokes. We're just going to keep joking. Keep that for the car. That's true.

We saved that for the car. That's true. That's between you, me, and Mosley. And Mosley, who's not here tonight. He's upstairs. Okay, so you wanted to talk about my films? I did, but I wanted to promote Cove soda. My favorite new drink here, local drink.

This is made in Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, where I grew up, where the city of Lakes High School should be, but it's Woodlawn High. And, yeah, they make all sorts of super duper flavors. They have something called Dr. Cove, which is like Dr. Pepper, but it's Dr. Cove. and they have cove cola and orange cream and yeah this one's ice pop so what's it taste like I've never had it and I don't want it because for you know our US listeners the ice pops the red white and blue ice pops were huge grown oh yeah no same here yeah we used to eat those yep and then we go yeah we'd go death to America and they need it one color at a time it was like eating it was like eating your flag oh my god all right so

there's alienating our audience part two Um, but this tastes like an ice pop. Oh, okay. It's bringing back so many memories of like growing up and going to this convenience store I'd go to called Malonis. I'd get an ice pop. I'd get a piece of pizza and, uh, go behind behind the shop there and hang out with my friends. And yeah, yeah. So I love it.

I love it. And it's no calories either. So if you guys are ever in Nova Scotia, check out Cove soda. I'm trying to get sponsorship here, Paul. Fair enough. Um, if I could, if I listen. so lazy to go behind and pull up, pull up Miller's gourmet popcorn, which we eat like it's crack. It is literally.

I call it crack popcorn because you just and it's the salty. It's the salt. Let's pretend we're food influencers. Notes, first of all, you have to do the eye roll. Then you do this, you do a brief pause. I watch a lot of food influences. You just go, it's when salt hits the tanginess and they melt together with the tangyness. with the tangy saltiness

that you get the salt tang. I hate food influencers. I like genuine chefs and I follow some on Instagram that give you like, here's how you make pastin, but they're generally usually people from Italy or from wherever. Cool. Love those guys.

Some dude who just walks into a pizza place and goes, I just need a book. religious experience meets an orgasm here. And it's all because of this canoli. You know, like, no. And this is the greatest canoli ever, which they say in every episode. Of course.

Everywhere has the best canoe. You know, last word I'll say on food, my favorite, my favorite, but one of my favorite Instagram accounts. So here, here's a sponsorship opportunity for you, follow up on this, is Talercios, which is a sandwich shop, restaurant, whatever, in New Jersey, of all places. And I have never had an overwhelming desire to go to New Jersey, Nothing against New Jersey.

And I won't travel to the U.S. while Trump's president. But as soon as he's gone, I will go back to the U.S. as long as it's not J.D. Vance or some other fascist. And as soon as America is free again, I am going to New Jersey, to Tlercios, to have, and you can follow them on Instagram what have to be. They're the biggest sandwiches ever made, clearly.

The guy they have to do them is quite amusing and stuff. But, oh, my God, it's a heart attack waiting to happen. But in a good way, like the, wait, this long. And he's just like, first you flip it, then you lit it and you slice it. And, you know, they slice their mozzarella. They don't great. And he's in, oh, my God, look up to Lurcio's. Ryan will stick a thing up at the end.

I can go to their Instagram page and look at their. Because I told them to follow him. And it's like those sandwiches are. Yeah. Yeah. It would be a pilgrimage to New Jersey just for that. Yeah, it would be like, you know, the pill. going to Mecca but for sandwiches.

Two of my closest friends live in New Jersey, and I will not go there. But if you told me we were going to- Tularcia? A shop, I would definitely do. I don't even know where in New Jersey it is. Yeah. But I'm going to find out. And I'm coming.

Sorry. I'm coming for you, Talercio. I had my first Jersey mics two weeks ago, so now I can graduate to Tulareseus. Yes, you definitely need to graduate. And if you're still listening, folks, we're 16 minutes in. And wow. We. Oh, my God.

You guys are true rider dies, as they call them. Thank you. Yes. Thank you. But, you know, good advice on Talercio's stuff. For sure. Like, if you're there, that's a good follow on Instagram, too. Exactly.

You like sandwiches. We've already, we've already promoted Talercios. Cove soda. And cove soda. Brief mentioned to Miller's gourmet popcorn. Yeah. You'll be swimming in the money by Monday, buddy. Oh, yeah.

Get those Nova Scotia bucks, baby. Not from haunted. We can't. We won't be paying you for weeks. It's the exchange rate, Ryan. I get it. I get it. So you want to talk about my films? Yes.

We're going to go through. I mean, your filmography obviously transcends just UFOs. But for this show, we are just going to cover those, I think, for this episode. Spielberg, Christopher Nolan, me. Exactly. And not in that order, people. Oh, you know. Holland's got a little work to do.

You have not seen Disclosure Day. yet, right? No, I have not. Okay. Okay. Then we don't have to discuss that. What's that a core? Is that a Corbell film? Sorry. It should be. It should be. I literally have Paul's IMDB pulled up here, guys. So we're going to be going through. And yeah. I don't even remember that one. Yeah. I think I was drunk when I shot that. Probably. Soul searching for the blues. That was your first. I was only the producer on No, it's about a blues, a Nova Scotian jazz musician.

It goes down, hangs out with Bruce Katz, an American blues musician. Oh, cool. Hey, man, Dorkin guy. Really cool guy. That's cool. Yeah, it was a guy named Will Fraser, a old friend of mine did that film. Okay. Pretty good film, actually.

Cool. All right. You're just going to go straight through them. Your whole thing. Wait until you get to the Stephen Greer film. Gosh, is that even on here? No, it's not. No, I never put that one on IMDB.

That was just so I could get a funding bonus from the government in Nova Scotia. Got it. That's why I finished the film. And yes, I am a true filmmaker, folks. I will do anything. Wait till we get to Aztec, 1948. I will do anything to make money or leverage opportunities.

So I can look at you filmmaker. Exactly. I love it. Yeah. Well, 2002 was presumably your first UFO documentary, or would it have been the one you did with Nick, the Puerto Rico one? Oh, that was later. That was later.

That was also another one that I did. didn't to leverage opportunities so god that there's an interesting story about that one so we can get that okay but yeah the first one i ever did was stanth t freedman is real that was the first film that was the first film i ever directed actually really so tell us a little about it i wasn't going to be the original director a guy named evangelo cuis was a friend of mine and i fired him not the uh was actually it was the first time wasn't the last time but my reputation of paul crush anyone if it provides them with an opportunity. Well learned from the very beginning.

No, actually, I sat down. It was about Uncle Stan, obviously. So I was producing it and I was writing it too, sort of. Evangelo was going to direct. And I never directed anything. I didn't go to film school or whatever. I was a lawyer. I'd come through government film agencies.

And so I could produce. I knew how to leverage money and stuff. So I sat down with Ralph Holt, who was the head of Telefilm, Atlantic. Telefilm's the Canadian Federal Film Funding Agency. I knew Ralph from my days in provincial government funding agency. And they had money in Stanton T. Free of Israel. And in an hour, having coffee with Ralph, I basically gave him the whole film. Like, this is what the film is going to be here.

It didn't wind up that way, but I knew the story. And he said, hey, you know, Evangelo is a good guy and everything, but why aren't you directing this? And I said, I didn't go to film school, Ralph. Can I swear on your podcast? I always forget. Absolutely. Sure.

I believe the exact quote was, you don't have to go to film school. Fucking monkeys can direct. They just have to be monkeys who know story. You know the story. It's not your story, but your uncle's story. Boom. And who are willing to listen to and hire good people

who know the technical stuff. And then you can learn. And I sense, he didn't use this example. So I got rid of Evangelo. At Evangelo's agreed. And Evangelo and I worked on other things afterwards. But Evangelo went, yeah, you should be directing this. Okay, apparently I was the only one who didn't know.

Fine. But I kind of likened it when people ask me now, I sort of say, Paul McCartney, and I do love comparing myself to Macon. But McCartney, when he became a really good producer, he understood how to produce. He wound up producing a lot of his own albums when he went solo. By the end, he was sort of almost a de facto co-producer with George Martin on something like Abby Road.

But he didn't start out that way when he's a 21-year-old, 22-year-old musician first in the studio. But unlike the other three, George, John, and Ringo to different extents, he didn't get drugged out all the time. And so he paid attention. He watched how the engineers mic things, drums,

every little thing in the studio he paid attention to. And Brian Wilson and the Beach Boys, same way. And they made themselves into producers by watching and listening, offering suggestions, but then seeing how George Martin, in McCartney's case, would execute something. So that's what I did. I had a guy named Finley Mirrors, my director of photography,

my old friend John Rosberg, is my location sound guy. And actually coming from the music industry, I knew something about sound, very little about camera other than watching it. I didn't, I mean, I used to joke for years. I still kind of joke. I don't even know how to turn the camera on,

which, because they're always changing cameras, still kind of true. It depends on the camera, but if it's a really big, you know, like, no, it's not my area of expertise. But I became very good at lighting and at camera angles. And so my imagination, though, was always there. So the Friedman film, a couple of things. So it's kind of almost a filmmaking class.

I'm not really talking about Stan here. But if you ever want to make films, folks. First thing, there's shots in that film, which you can see these all online that I love, that I wasn't even in the room for. That I finally said, hey Paul, can I take Stan and go shoot 30 minutes of fun B-roll? And Finley would go film without me there.

And I wouldn't see the footage until I got back in the edit suite and was editing it and taught myself how to edit too. And you realize, yeah, it's just story. Like I wrote songs as a lawyer. You'd tell a story, sometimes true, sometimes not in court, whatever. But it's all storytelling. And filmmaking to me was just another way of telling stories. So the technical stuff was initially beyond me, editing I took to pretty quick.

And look, kids can edit stuff in your cell phones now. So editing, I mean, you can figure it out. But 98% of people are bad editors. They're not great. You learn by watching other people who do good work. And I'd watch films. I was a film guy like a buff for many, many years. I learned how to make, record, and produce music by listening to music.

Not just going, yeah, I'm just going to make music the way I want to make it. No, I'd listen to McCartney or the Smiths or Joint Division. or whatever and love it, but also kind of analyze it. So I did the same thing with films. I watched other people's documentaries. So Errol Morris is probably my favorite documentary maker after Jeremy Corbell. Sorry. And Morris, there's a film, Errol Morris did call Dr. Mr. Death, sorry, not Dr. Dead.

Mr. Death, the Fred Loitkter story. And it's about a Holocaust denier who was also the guy, the electorate chair. I think he was involved in electrocutions in the United States. So he was involved in the death industry somehow. And he became a Holocaust denier. And when Morris filmed the documentary, he had, sorry, I have to make sure I'm looking. He had, Loitkner would look straight into the camera. Now, you're not supposed to do that.

It's kind of, you're supposed to look a little way so you can shoot from multiple angles and stuff. Look like you're not looking at the camera. Morris said, no, no, I want this guy to look straight there, straight in the camera. get down the barrel. So the guy did. And you could really see his face. And I was struck by that. And I said, that's how I want to do documentaries when it's the subject. So Stan, if you look at the Stan Friedman film, Stan is looking right down the barrel, which I can't replicate here. I don't know where your camera is. He literally was looking at the lens of the camera. Kevin Randall's in it, Carl Flach's in it. a couple of the guys, Bruce Maccby, I think, Don Ledger. They are looking slightly askew, which is the traditional way that everybody sort of tries to do it. Stan, I had, boom, right down the center of the barrel.

Not going to do it was a liar or anything. It's just like, these guys are part of Stan's life, or part of the story, but they're peripheral. When Stan's talking to you, I just want Stan to talk to you, meaning the viewer. Interesting. And it was no offense to Evangelo, well I haven't seen many years

but he wouldn't have done that I don't think most documentary filmmakers would have done that it wasn't the language at the time that certainly in Canada people were doing and if I had known the language I probably wouldn't have done it either because I just didn't know any better so I said

I'm going to do it and I think it works great because it really allowed Stan to be very like you see him yeah you see him the only other thing I'd mention about the Stan Friedman film. Besides, I mean, I can tell all sorts of stories about me and Stan on the road, which were fun. I mean, I love my uncle. So, you know, we had a great time. Contrary to opinions

that emerged later, my uncle and I did not hate each other. We actually, you know, had great fun together, even if we argued in public sometimes, was the music. So the music has a very churchy feel. And people, I remember some people reviewed the film, UFO people, not real viewers. And they thought I was making fun of them. That, you know, like this music, if you listen to it, it's very organ-y. And I commissioned a guy to Lake Paul Graham, who was a local musician, to do it. And I said, I wanted to feel like an evangelical church meeting, like a tent meeting. My grandfather used to run them where you preach and you hear the organ or whatever. And they said, oh, you're making fun of it. I said, no, I'm not. He's a, he's a UFO evangelist. That's literally

what he is. And there's a, there's a moment in the film where, um, Barry Downing, author of the Bible in Flying Saucers, good friend of Stan's, calls Stan at the Mufon Symposium. He says, Stan Friedman, is the Flying Saucer Evangelist or something like that. I mean, it's right in the film, folks. It's like from them. Stan was not offended by it at all. He actually thought the music was kind of cool.

He said, yeah, that's kind of what I do. I'm like an old preacher going from preaching the gospel of the flying saucers. Right. And so that was very much a conscious choice, but an editorial one, not to mock Stan, but to sort of give him as due because I had the greatest respect for evangelists in not the American ones today, but the old ones.

And even the American ones today with the megachurches and the 10,000 people and the eight jets and the four mistresses or whatever, well, I can respect that too. I can respect the graft and the grift. Respect the game. Yeah, hate the player, not the game. So yeah, that's those were,

and so it's probably I'm doing thinking. of the UFO films or UFO related films, because it's not really about UFOs, it's about Stan. It is by far my favorite film, and it is still my favorite documentary. I did another one on Denise Jokic, a Canadian classical musician a couple years later.

I like that one too, but they are my two favorite films, and there's a reason why they're biographies. Denise was a compelling young cellist, and we were in Northern British Columbia, which was weird to watch people doing concert recitals in, you know, like community halls. and gymnasiums. Yeah.

It's not where you'd expect it. She had played at the Grammys with the train. Drops of Jupiter or something like that. So she had a $6 million strativarius in the trunk of the car driving through Northern BC. Kind of cool. So, yeah, but Stan is a better film. And everything, I, you know, it's not hubris.

I usually find the flaws in my film. I don't see any flaws in the Friedman film. I actually think that's the best portrait, not just of Stan, of any UFO researcher ever filmed. And I include, although he's not really a UFO researcher, I include Jeremy Corbell's film about Bob Lazar because shitty film. But, and a shitty filmmaker. But Jeremy's like, that's not a film, that's a film trying to sell you something. Lazar is real and the stories are true and, mm-hmm. Jeremy Corbell isn't a documentary filmmaker.

I am. My job wasn't to sell you that UFOs are real or flying saucers are real. My job was to tell Stan Friedman's story. He believes they're real. And I really get into the UFO subculture because of doing this film and subsequent films. But my job was not to convince people the UFOs were real. My job was to tell Stan's story and provide counterpoints. So Carl Flock and Kevin Randall are in there to say, hey, we're not just going to agree with everything Stan says, here's the flip side of it. of it. Roswell could be toxic. Carl in particular, here's the problems with the Roswell story. Kevin, you know, poked at Stan too. From a place of love and respect, they both liked and respected Stan, mostly. Certainly, you know, towards the end of all of their, well, Kevin's still alive, but Carl, you know, he would, these were people who could disagree with somebody without it becoming overtly, like terribly personal. Randall and Stan fought a lot in public, too. They were, congenial in private. And that's the thing about a lot of the uphology stuff. What seems like a big feud in public usually was not in private. However, when I talk about Jeremy Corbella, I do mean

every word of it. So, you know, hey, Jerbert, come get me. Get in line. It's people, filmmakers, alleged filmmakers, his name start with Jay, Alcy Day. Apparently, yeah, a thing that. Won't talk about the other one. But yeah, no, I make no bones. Corbell is not documentary filmmaker. Corbell doesn't mean he's a bad guy or whatever that people can judge for themselves. But he's not making documentaries. He's making what I consider political, now political kind of films, or he's a polemicist, or he's there to convince you something. Yes, documentary filmmakers have a point of view, and occasionally mine would drift through in later films. But in the Friedman film, my job was to tell Stan's story and also to give the other side of view.

and the thing I'm most proud of in my career is that nobody who's ever been in any of my films has ever complained about how they were treated or they were misquoted or misrepresented. And if you're a documentary filmmaker, and they would often have radically different views than other people in the film. If you're a documentary filmmaker,

there is no greater plotted that you can give me, I have EBE Awards and all that stuff. Who cares? Nice statues, though. having never having somebody have complained that they were treated unfairly yeah my job is done yeah that makes sense yeah i yeah i mean you you even here nowadays especially with all these Netflix documentaries of people like suing them and stuff for how they were misrepresented you had the linda napolitano case even i watched that her yeah we watched

some of it together no offense to peter i really like peter robins i thought there was a good documentary series because they did what I just talked about doing as a and I know something about the case too so Peter there were sides of that case if you were on either side maybe you felt like you were you know hey I thought this film was just about my side yeah it's not what guys like me get paid to do guys like me get paid real documentary filmmakers get paid to tell both sides of the story and let the audience make up their mind so I understand that's a controversial case and controversial people involved you know I looked at it just not even as a document as a a documentary filmmaker, I thought it was really well done.

As just a person who was interested in UFOs, thought it was really well done. And just as trying to, you know, I recommended it to a couple of friends who were not UFO guys at all. And they watched it and they said, yeah, thought it was really well done. And they all came away with different points of view, too. And that's the thing in that film's case that I think the Linda Cortille or Napolitano side didn't understand was that just because people saw that. didn't necessarily mean that they were going to immediately dismiss her.

I think there was enough room in there for people to make up their mind either way. Yeah, you're right. There's two sides to every story, for sure. And yeah, I do think you really played that well with your first UFO doc. And the thing, I was watching it the other night and now knowing, you know, the, I guess, ironic yet sort of beautiful ending to Stan's, life of like, oh, in the airport. Yeah, coming home from a UFO conference, doing what he loved, speaking in front of

hundreds of thousands of people throughout the years and traveling the world and all that. Like, you know Staten Friedman's voice as a UFO researcher. Like, I can't tell you how many times I've heard that voice on my TV, on the radio, having the incredible opportunity to interview him on the podcast for my 50th episode. Like, these are memories I will always have. And I love, and, you know, spoiler alert, the final moments of your film of him just kind of walking off down a road in the desert. And it just seems so appropriate. Yeah, filmed it outside of Roswell, 20 minutes outside.

I was thinking it was maybe. Because there was like no traffic. So we could get, I think, two cars came. Yeah. And so we get off the road. Otherwise, there's just a straight stretch of road. You could just shoot it, shoot it. And I guarantee you, those two cars that went by were like, holy shit, that's Staten Friedman.

Wow. Yeah, probably. Yeah, it's funny. Like what did, you know, what did Stan and I talk about? Because we actually spent, we shared in, when we were in Roswell, we shared a hotel room. Yeah, which was fun. It was fun. Because Stan would go to bed fairly early and I go out drinking with the crew guys or whatever.

And Roswell, it's a lovely town, man. If you were an alien, you wouldn't land there on purpose. It was July. That's why I crash. But they have all sorts of bugs. People are very nice. They have all sorts of bugs. And big grasshoppers and stuff.

And if you open your motel room door and you left it open for five seconds, you'd have 30 of those things in the room. So I came back and like, hey, good night, guys. Open the door. Got it open. And I was like 1,000, 2,000, 1,000. I'm kind of like, okay. And it was dark. The lights were off.

It stands it. Get in there and close the door. You're letting the grasshoppers in or whatever. I was like, oh, yes, sir. You're letting the mantids in. Yeah, exactly. And then I spent 10 minutes killing them. Oh, because he's, and he said, dot, just turn your.

light on trying to sleep oh i can't sleep now and i i will always remember that because i finally i didn't really undress i just plopped down on the bed i wasn't hammered but i was just i was like stan what what do you really think of majestic 12 i don't i don't want to talk about it paul it's two in the morning pauses and then we spent an hour talking really about baseball stand and i when we would be hang out rarely talked about UFOs yeah occasionally we talked about the euphologists. But mostly it was anything but UFOs. Baseball, religion, politics. He and I were more or less on the same side there. All sorts of stuff. But yeah, UFOs. That was his job. And it was also his life. He kind of lived UFOs. Yeah. But he had a broad range of interest too.

See, and I love that. I love hearing that even someone of his stature who would live, breed, sleep UFOs had other interests, which is just like so important. There's people nowadays, And there always has been in euphology where this defines them. Every moment from the minute they wake up to the minute they go to sleep, they're arguing on Twitter. God, I feel sorry for those people. The world is such an amazing place with so many wonders and we only have so many years in it. Why would you waste, I mean, your time? Yeah.

Arguing about that all the time. Occasionally. Yeah. But this is coming from a UFO podcaster, guys. Like, go do something else. with your life. Lawrence is lovely. You travel, eat food, you know, whatever.

Just, yeah, it's like Bill Shadner when he was on Saturday, like, get a life. No. Until the aliens come down and prove that they're here and we know they're here for sure, or if they're aliens, whatever, we don't know. So, like, it's an interesting hobby, an interesting pastime.

Yeah. I mean, I just, yeah, I look at the, anyway, we don't want to get in there. I look at the Disclosure Project and all these hearings and everything. And I can admire their passion, I guess. and it's better that they're directing it at UFOs as opposed to MAGA or something else, fine. So there are worse things in the world.

But, you know, a lot of you, not all of you, but a lot of you just get a good life. Get a life. Yeah. Myself included. Or expand your life. Yeah. That's a good way. You know, a person who is good at that, Suzanne, your podcast, Suzanne Landers, who I've met, very deep into UFOs and everything, but as a life.

You know, travels, very well read and all that sort of stuff. I love Suzanne. She met her and her husband. And they're great. Yeah. That's cool. UFOs can be an interest, but don't let it define your very being. And Stan understood that too.

Yeah. Because he had a family and he had a life. You know, he consulted on nuclear projects and stuff. He never stopped being a scientist. Yeah. And he loved baseball. Yeah. I love that.

Well, we're not going to get off Stan too much because we're going to move to your MJ12 doc. But one more story. if you're willing to share. I love about the imagery just stays with me of the day of 9-11. You guys were filming during that, right? Yep. Yeah. It seemed like a very

deeply human moment. So we were in Cedar Rapids, me in Finley, Iowa, because that's where Kevin Randall did. And I flew Carl, that hat is, it's killing you folks. I flew Carl flock up from New Mexico, so we filmed him in Iowa too. And it was actually a lot of fun. We had breakfast, Finley and I, across the road, I think it was at Denny's or something, with Kevin and Carl.

And then we left to set stuff up. And here were these two intelligence guys, because Carl, CIA and Kevin had military intelligence. As I'm walking away, going, I wish I could just stay and be a fly on the wall. So do you think they're talking about, like secret military plants? I said, no, they're probably talking about Stan and, you know, other eophologists that they hate or whatever, you know, our cases or something. And I'm pretty sure that's what they were talking about. Anyway, so interviewed them, flew back to Halifax from Cedar Rapids on September 10th, 2001, and got in, I think it was around 1130 at night. So I sort of, no, it was 1.30 in the morning.

We were on the last flight out of Boston. So I like to joke with people that the terrorists in Boston might have been in the airport and I might have walked right by it. And by joke, I don't mean joke, but just sort of, you know, because the next morning they left on the first flight or one of the first flights out of Boston. So fun story, if you can, it's not really a fun story, but when we, in the old days, we used to film on beta tape. And they were like VHS tapes basically, same size. And you would have to stuff all of those in a suitcase. So I would have two suitcases, my stuff. And then here's the, and if you were going to lose a suitcase, you lost your clothes.

Like you would fight a grizzly bear to keep those tapes because that was your film. You're done. Couldn't upload it to the cloud. kids, didn't have it on your phone or like a thumbnail drive, or whatever. They were in a suitcase. So I had this suitcase, this carry-on size. And when we're going through Cedar Rapids to fly back, I never forget the lady. There was a lady, she's a nice lady working the radar thing,

sorry, x-ray thing. And security. Anyone who flies now, like, is young. I work with a lot of young people. They do not remember. Some of them weren't even born. pre-9-11. Flying was different.

Not if you were in Israel or maybe the United Kingdom during the troubles, but flying in North America was different. It was different. I love and changed everything. And so I look at her and I go, listen, is it okay? It's full of these tapes.

And I don't know what the x-ray machine will do, but, you know, kind of where it's a television thing, and she's, oh, sweetie. And she picked it up. She didn't even open it. Look, she just trusted me. And she took it around the x-ray machine. machine and then stuck it and it down it went and you're fine.

You just walk through that. And so I thought the next day after Kaboom, somebody's getting fired in Cedar Rapids because she's, you know, people say, how could these guys sneak on with just box cutters and hijack a plane? Yeah, good news for you. It's a different world, folks.

Security was not what you think it is or what it is now. People were just let me like, and my thought, even as I got on the plane was, you know what? I could be a terrorist because at, at that point, the worst terrorists in American history were the white Anglo-Saxon looking dudes like me at Oklahoma City, who blew up the federal building.

Didn't look like the guys from Saudi Arabia looked like me. And she just let me put it on. So I wasn't a terrorist. There were real terrorists next day. Boom. I get in a car with Finley and John Rosbrookeau because we're going up to Fredericton. It's about a four and a half hour or five hour drive. He runs away to film stand.

This is when we're going to film stand. We filmed everyone else. Now we've got, I think, four days with Stan. Boom. And I drove down, I had to give something to my fiancé at the time. And she was working a company called Quicklaw, and they're downtown Halifax. And we had a building in Halifax called the World Trade Center. That's like six stories tall.

And I walk in and they're all looking at the one computer, this is how long ago this was, in their office. at the front and they're all staring at it and I'm like what what happens plane just hit the world trade center and I look out the window and I because they're near it I went just don't by the world trade center it's still oh oh you mean that one trade center oh so we quickly learned what it started and we're leaving at like 930 so it's a obviously a developing story folks by the time we get to frederickton the story still a developing story but the main, you know, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, kind of thing.

And Stan, there's a shot, anyway, long story short, it was a very odd, like just, the world changed. Everything, you know, it's like BC and AD. I can remember before Christ, after Christ, or whatever, you know, you want to pick. There's turning points in history. That was a turning point,

certainly for us in North America. And so there's a shot in the film where Stan is sitting there and we're shooting him from outside through the blinds of his house. half. You know, like, you know how blinds are. You can see through them. They're flipped this way as opposed to closed. And it's part, it's the part of the film where things shift from Stan's happy go lucky childhood and, you know, how he became a UFO lecture and he's making jokes about setty,

silly effort to investigate too. Now it gets darker conspiracies and Carl Flok comes in and all that sort of stuff. And music changed a bit too. And so it looks very, and we do a shot like this, coming in slow as slow zoom in to stand and he's looking at something and it's like we lit his face what he's looking at is CNN coverage of 9-11 he is sitting in his living room as a guy who grew up in linden new jersey not all that far from new york um watching 9-11 coverage and wondering what the world will look like the next point and so that that look on his face and uh we're Me, I had a job to do. Like I was, we were all shaking.

You know, like, what does it mean? Are there more attacks coming? Is this war? Nobody knew. We know now, we can look back 25 years later and go, okay, here's how it all worked out. But at the time, nobody knew, were there more attacks coming? All the planes had been grounded. You couldn't fly anywhere in North America, you Americans who continually lamb-based Canada for not being your friend,

we let all your planes land here and just sit up. We treated you guys and we would do it again. We would do it again. But that's who we are when the sky's close because nobody knew. But Stan, he's just like staring. Me, I just went, Finley. Actually, John, we didn't need sound. So it was just me and Finley.

But I think John came out too because he just didn't want to be in the house. Let's go out and let's shoot through the window. Stan didn't even know we were shooting. Oh, wow. Yeah. I just said, this looks great. And I'm sorry. And it's terrible.

And this is a terrible day. and we'll figure it all out tomorrow. But right now, I got a job to do, and that's a great shot. And so that's what I did. Yeah. And then I told Stan afterwards, he said, yeah, I paraphrase. He said, yeah, that's what I would have done too. That's good to know.

He gave you the blessing. Yeah, and then later he said, it was a great shot. Yeah. I look really serious. Yeah, you're watching 9-11 coverage. Stan. That's when I was out in the backyard filming and you didn't know. And those are sometimes the best shots when you're filming people,

and they don't realize because you get a real, kind of reaction. For sure. Yeah. That would continue in your films too. I told that story to a young, young production coordinator, retired,

and she said, I was one. And I'm like, okay, I feel old. I totally feel old. Oh, man. It's hard to believe it's a four century.

I know. Yeah. Crazy. I'm just glad I came back on September 10th. And, you know, you shouldn't joke about 9-11. but kind of it's like after the space shuttle crashed,

you know, what does NASA stand for, and even other seven astronauts? Because that gallows humor. You just like something terrible happened. You have to have a sense of humor about it. So I look back on it now and go, it's a good thing we didn't book the flights for September 12th. Yeah.

I would have been stuck in Cedar Rapids, Iowa for about two weeks. That nice city for a day. Don't want to spend more than a day or two in Cedar Rapids. Yeah. That's like that musical I worked at in New York, that come from away about Newfoundland, when they landed all the people over there. Oh, yes, exactly. Yeah.

Yeah, you know, you had city folk over in this remote island in Canada that they never probably even knew existed. And now they were stuck there for like a month. What was it, two, three weeks? Yeah, something like that. Yeah, crazy. We did our best to treat our Yankee cousins as best as we could. Yeah, he guys did amazing.

Because it was a terrible thing. It was terrible. It was terrible. Yeah. And then my brother-in-law went and served, I think, two or three tours in Afghanistan. Oh, wow. Yep, I had some friends too. Yep, came back, changed forever. And then you guys invaded Iraq. Yeah. We were all with you on Afghanistan, but Iraq, bridge too far. Okay, so next, what do you got?

Next. Let's move to MJ12. Do you believe in magic was the original title? Yeah, they changed the title on all my films, I think. The distributors. At some point. Yeah, so this one kind of continued the story of Sand Friedman, but something he was hyper-focused on for a lot of his career. Other, well, connected to Roswell, obviously, but that was it was intended as a sequel to the first film. Okay. And so the first film was about him and a bit about Roswell.

Now it was about one aspect and a very controversial aspect of his career, which was MJ12, which is, to me, Stan didn't ruin his career, but it's the rock that his little ship crashed on and that he could never get away from. So what is MJ12? I know a lot of our audience, our younger audience members, might not even really know what it is. You know, a lot of people think it's a group of people. A lot of people just refer to the documents. Like, what are we dealing with when it comes to majestic 12?

A hoax perpetrated by Bill Moore and Jamie Shanderee on the UFO community. That's what you're dealing with. Okay. And that is the conclusion that Carl Flock and the others had come to and that I've come to as well. But it was a series, well, it metastasized a word. I don't like using, but it metastasized out into a whole bunch of other stuff like Ryan Wood and other people, more and more and more and more documents just kept coming out. You go back to the original documents, which were the Eisenhower briefing document

and the MJ12 memorandum, it's actually a very short group of papers. And it was allegedly this group in the 19, after Roswell, 1940s and 50s, that was put together to basically cover up the UFO, the crash of the Roswell spacecraft and potentially one other, and it included, you know, military and scientific leaders and Donald Menzel, the arch skeptic from that time period, the Phil Klaus of his time, or whoever today's arch skeptic is, third phase of moon. McWest. McQuest.

The Mick West of his time, sure. Michael Sherman. You know what, Michael Shermer would be a better one. Okay. The Michael Shermer of his time, fair. or Neil deGrasse Tyson because he was a legitimate scientist he was a real significant scientist

Menzel was and yeah that was that's what MJ12 was ultimately eventually Kevin Randall who did not believe MJ12 as existed the way Stan said it did he thought the Eisenhower briefing all this stuff was faked

but then Kevin came up with his own group called the Unholy 13 so it's like I love that is kind of an inside joke because Stan had Majestic 12. Kevin had to have one other person in it. So it was the unholy 13. It's like that person on prices, right, who goes a dollar.

One dollar. Your one, one UFO cover-up guy. They hate those people. Yeah. And there's no unholy 13 either. Or at least there's no proof of one. So it was, it was a, and I have no doubt. Everything points to Bill Moore, Stan's old research partner.

And Jamie Shandere, who was a bit of a shady filmmaker from, the United States and somehow Jamie got involved in the whole more freedman access. By the way, do I think Stan had any hand in faking it? No. Stan was the dupe. He was the one guy out of those three guys who didn't have a hand. Stan was as honest as the day was long. Not always the most discerning when it came to frauds, although with Bob Lazari is pretty good.

But with MJ12, he had a massive blind spot. Why? because MJ12 proved the existence of Roswell. Right, which is what he ultimately brought. That was his kid, his baby. He's the grandfather of Roswell. Yeah. So he just put the blinders on and caboo.

So again, my job was not to sell MJ12 and it was not to dismantle MJ12. I gave this Carl Fox in it. I gave the skeptics through the moment. But I largely told it straight. Stan certainly got, he had no complaints about the film. He was like, yep, got my. I still believe in MJ12 and I told my story. He had no problems with Carl telling the alternate view.

He just said, Carl, here's why Carl was wrong. Okay, fun. And then after the film came out, people were shocked. Some people back then were shocked when I became a very vocal critic of Majestic 12, not the film.

And that Stan and I at some point Stan put an addendum, a new part of his book on MJ12, and he went after me. Not personally, but he said my nephew, something like, my nephew's very smart, but he's wrong on this. And I was just like, no, no, I'm right, Stan, you're wrong. You're definitely wrong on this one. But my job in making the film was not to be an advocate or a disadvocate, which is not a word, but he just created it. For what, for MJ12, it was to let these people tell their story.

And I actually probably veered in the film more, I did veer, more on Stan's side. and I did a couple of promo pieces afterwards, like in a cable channel up in Frederington, this hometown where I kind of took a pro MJ12, or certainly we need to look into this. This is interesting. I did not know about this. And then I quickly, within a year, said,

okay, fine, I've done my bit to sell the film. You know, promote it and be fair. And now I was writing a UFO blog and stuff because I getting into it. It's cool. I'm going to take MJ12 apart. It wasn't hard. And I was not the first guy.

He's like, Paul solved MJ12. No, not really. I was just kind of repeating what other people said. Probably sounding smarter doing it than many of them. But yeah, that's what MJ12 was. It was a hoax. Anyone who believes in MJ12, you're wrong. That does not mean that there isn't a group who has at some point or another covered up something about UFOs.

Right. Or that there are not secrets or that whatever. It just means there wasn't a group called MJ12. At that time, structured like that, covering up a spacecraft crash in Roswell. That did not happen. But that doesn't mean that there are not other things that were not covered up about the UFO phenomenon. I don't know. So I refer to myself, I like to think that I get along with both Kevin and Stan, obviously, when he was alive.

So I call myself MJ 13. The Unholy 13 meets MJ12. That's me. I'm MJ 13. Perfect hybrid baby. It's true. Last question on MJHB. Why do you think they hopes this?

Like I know a lot of people think this was like, okay, like was from in the government, like a disinformation campaign. Two reasons. If I'm being, no. If I'm being generous, I would say they hoped this would be the generous part. They hope that if they put the fake stuff out there, it would shake out some real stuff. Oh, okay. Interesting.

Didn't work that way. No, and all it did was shake out more fake stuff. I don't believe that either, too. I honestly believe that they were doing it because they wanted to cash in on Roswell. Make more money off. It'd make more money off the crash flight. Moore had, you know, the Roswell incident.

And it hadn't done as well as the Philadelphia book he did with Berlin. Oh, that's right. And, you know, this was like there was an economic opportunity here for them. I know my dear friend Greg Bishop disagrees with me on this, I think. But that's fine. That's, at the end of the day, I don't know why they did it. I just have pretty like 99.999% sure that they did do it. And to me, honestly, the reasons don't matter.

What matters is the conclusion. It's a fraud. And it's not a particularly compelling one, frankly, when you really look into it. Yeah. There are better, I mean, it's better than your average, Hyman Lasson promoted fraud. So, like, it's better than Jonathan Reed. I'll give them that. But it's, and it has a slight air of plausibility to it.

Yeah. Yeah. Rosmo's sides. Yeah, that one, anyone involved with that one, people know what my point of view is. You should never be allowed into mythology again. Like, to credit to Stan, he stayed out. They asked him in and he said, he said, yeah, I would be part of this. That's fair.

Let's move to some credible UFO information. And that is with your 2007 film, Best Evidence Top 10 UFO. I like how you skip the Aztec film. Wait, didn't that come later? No, that was before. I did that. I shot that at the same time. I shot the MJ12 film.

Oh, interesting. And I just did the Aztec film for money. What? Yeah, no, I'd make no bones about it. You're being honest. I had to, I had a funding gap in the MJ12 film. And Scott Ramsey was, and some investors in North Carolina were willing to kick in some money. If while I was there, I'd also shoot this Aztec film for them.

I went, okay, sure, because that will cover my funding gap. And I'll do it. Aztec. Who's ever heard of Aztec? Let's go there. So I did that one straight. So again, like I refer now to Aztec as euphologies, Dracula, you stake it, and then 20 years later some idiot comes in takes the stake out, the vampire.

I was the idiot. I took the stake out and put life into the Aztec case, which is an absolute fraud. The whole thing is ops. And I won't get into it. You can go to my own blog, because as soon as I was done the film, I immediately didn't take me as long as MJ12 because I like Sky. He's a nice guy. But he wasn't my uncle.

So I immediately became an arch critic of, And I got blasted by guys like Alfred Lembert, UFO commentators back then. That crowd back then, it was all on lists and stuff, logs. And they said, Kimball's a fraud. He's denouncing his own films. Dudes, I get paid to make these films. I made him. I hope you like them.

I think I did a pretty good job. I'll take film with my best work because we had not a lot of me. But it's still a pretty good job. And Carflocks in it again because you need a skeptic. He's like, why is he putting the skeptics in? Now Kimball's denouncing his own work. you know, he's part of the government cover of. No, no, I got paid to do a job.

I did it. The information you wanted, everybody was in the film, Scott, everybody else said, fairly treated, cool. And now I'm going to tell you personally what I think about this in my capacity, not as a filmmaker, but as just a UFO researcher, euphologist, whatever. Two different things, folks. Oh, there's two, two different things.

And there's a lot of people then and now, not about me because nobody knows who I am now. But back then they did, who didn't understand that. And it's not a field. I hate the term field, but it's not a field that is amenable then or now to what Greg Bishop calls the excluded middle, all the people in the middle who just go, huh, I'm an agnostic. Here's some interesting stuff.

I'm curious. There's the reasons why that's not true. And that's not true. Like I have a brain and it works. and I'm not blinded by pure belief. Stan had a brain, and it usually worked. But on MJ12, he was blinded. I told him to his face when he was alive, more than once.

Stan, you're being blinded by your belief. And Stan, he understood the concept because he would say the same thing to Bob Lazar correctly, to Bob Lazar supporters. But everybody has a blind spot. I'm sure I have one too. I don't know who she is, but no. Or, you know, yeah, they do.

But I, my wife. But everybody has a blind spot. They can't see. And in all seriousness, I'm absolutely sure that I have to. You know, it's just mine maybe art is public that stance was. Or as, you know, Jeremy Corbell's myriad blind spots are George Nax or whatever. But everybody has it. Absolutely.

Except me, I'm perfect. usually yeah usually he is he's kind of perfect look how cute he is stop stop I have many this lighting is very good for lighting by the light that's all I was thinking about it okay okay my neighbors are coming over bitch forks now yeah no no they can't let Paul sing

can't sing so Aztec was a 1948 crash right it was a 1948 hoax but yeah it was allegedly happened in 1948. God. And it's,

you know, actually watch, if you want on the story, watch the film because Scott Ramsey will give the side. He didn't hoax it,

but he'll give the believer's side. But the counter side is in there. To Ramsey's credit, he was a believer. He had a vested interest in it. His friends put money, including him. He put money into it.

And he also let me do whatever I want. So I, you know, radically disagreed with Scott. He never once tried to exercise any editorial control. He said, tell the story, including the counter story if you want. So I did. And that is something else you don't see a whole lot of.

So while Scott and I disagreed on everything to do with Aztec, I have tremendous respect for the fact that, A, he gave me money. And B, he let me do what I wanted to do. And he lived with the results and never sent it back and said, I'm unhappy with this. We didn't get what we paid for, whatever. You treated this fairly. we got our view, Carl and others were in there giving the counter view.

Cool. Scott got it. And I wish more people were like that. So even people I could disagree with, like Scott, understood what documentary filmmaking was, unlike. Okay, I'll say, Jeremy Corby. I don't want to get sued. No. Go ahead, Corbell.

Sue me. I just think you're a shitty filmmaker. That is a constitutionally even in Canada, a protected opinion. So I'm not saying. you're a crook and just saying you're shitty feeling okay it's been said guys it's been said more than once bob lazare on the other hand so that's that's right chiding me saying it's been said more than once stop picking on carbell i no you can do whatever you want i think he's here i think he's here oh why are you picking on oh we've got jeremy corbell on the show

why are you picking on me paul that's why are you why jeremy where I can guarantee you will not come back on somewhere in disguise, not after my review of his Bob Lazard documentary and the book written by Bob Lazar. Yeah. I thought you liked me, Ryan. I thought we were broskeys. We got tattoos and stuff. You got tats.

You got tats. What's going on here? All right. Fuck both of you. Bye, Jeremy. I'm going to go hang out with Anna Paulina Luna. Is Nancy Mays still in Congress? She's kind of hot too.

All right. That Timber check guy, he's weird, but you know what? He'll do what I tell him to do. So, anyway. There he goes. Bye. Thank you. Thanks, Jeremy, for showing up.

Say hello to Anna Pauline and Luna for me if you can find her. You won't find her in Congress. No, you'll find her. I don't know. Who knows? In some evangelical church or something. Yeah. Cool.

We covered Aztec. Why do you keep asking me on the show? I don't know. I don't know. I'm in trouble now. This is, you know. I'm going to regret this. Hello, this is Ryan Sprague, the host of Summer in the Skies.

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Visit wayfair.com. Okay, best evidence. Top ten UFO sets. It would. Top 10 UFO. Yeah, I've been criticized because I've basically trashed half the cases in that film since then. Since then?

Yeah, because they've been debunked. And fine. The whole point of doing the film, besides making money, because it was a job, was to put what euthologists, and I surveyed or polled, 40 euphologists,

leading UFO researchers, Kevin, Carl Flock, Stan Friedman, Bruce McAbee, Rob Switech, you name them back then, Dick Hall, they all provided lists, and nine of the cases

were picked by them. 10th, I picked myself, and it is the 1561 Nuremberg case, which I wanted to include something from not the 20th century, just to show that the UFO phenomenon, kind of a valet approach, had existed, whatever it was throughout human history. So I went with that one. So I did exercise a little editorial control, and nobody really complained too much. But the other nine were all picked, I had one vote. I voted myself. But I just went with the nine. But I just went with the Here's what the numbers say. So the RB-47 case was number one,

which a lot of normal people, normal people, sorry, a lot of non-UFO super buffs were never aware of. I remember after the film was released, like, I'm paraphrasing, but people were like, the fuck, like where the fuck is Roswell?

Like, this is dumbest documentary ever. Okay, first of all, unidentified flying objects. At best, Roswell is an unidentified not flying, object anymore because it crashed. So that's not, no, Roswell's not there. By the way, they could have, some people did put Roswell on the list. Stan did.

Weirdly enough, not number one. What was this number one? I can't remember now, actually. I don't remember it. I don't remember. It was almost 20 years ago, so that list is on a computer somewhere, like eight computers ago.

But it was, it was, it was, Roswell didn't make the list. Like, it wasn't even number 10. I think it was like 15. So I'd had a top 20, Roswell would have been there. So UFO researchers at that time in 2006, 2007, did not consider Roswell one of the 10 best cases of all time. Wow.

As a group in the aggregate. So can I, let's see if I can remember. RB 47, number two, crap. What was number two? I'll circle back to number two. Shack Harbor? No, Shack Harbor is number five. The Trent McMinville photos.

was number four. Number three was the Tehran, I believe UFO citing, with the Iranian Air Force. My favorite case. During the Shah's days. Number two, I can't read. Oh, Rendez. Number two was Rendlesham.

Six, seven, seven was the, sorry, six was the Malmstrom Missile Base case. I think that was six. That was definitely one of them. Seven. Nine was the Yukon case. It was a Canadian case in the 1990s. that flew over a bunch of places.

Huge crap. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Eight, I can't remember what eight was. I mean, you can go watch the film. Yeah. So we will link to all the films too, guys. I should make that clear. You'll be able to watch all of these documentaries.

Like I consider, I don't consider Randallson, a very good case. Larry Warren's testimony collapsing has not helped. Yeah. But other things, too. There's other cases. Malmstrom missile-based case, I think, has largely been debunked or has been debunked. Still love Shag Harbor. Shag Harbor is unexplained.

Doesn't make it a space alien. It's just unexplained. Still love the RB47 case, although some people like Tim Prenti and Lance Moody have offered pretty good rejoinders against it, or at least well thought out, intelligent, made a good effort to reason, like not just go, that's just this, or it's a civilian airline. It's like, Tim Printy in particular did that several years ago when I challenged him. I still didn't find his analysis compelling.

I still consider it an unethical. unexplained case, but, you know, I'd give credit where credits do. He gave it a go. What are the cases around the list that I actually like? I still like the Tehron case, too. The Tehran case. No, O'Hare wasn't there. I think that's partly because recency bias, but an anti-repancy bias. Okay. And I'm not a huge fan of the O'Hare case either. My question is always, you're in an airport. Didn't anybody take a picture of this? Yeah, you would think. Even back then, people had phones that could take pictures. Right. And nobody's ever had a really good answer to me for that one.

The RB47 case just says so many moving parts. It's just a good case. It doesn't prove space aliens. But what makes the RB47 case so much more interesting to me is not the RB47 case as good as it is. We interviewed

a guy. He's passed away now, sadly. Lieutenant Colonel, or as you Americans would say, lieutenant colonel, that is the rest of the world would say lieutenant colonel, Bruce Bailey, who flew, well he didn't fly he was in the rb 47 was an electronic warfare plane countermeasures and crazy stuff he didn't fly it he was down in the they called them crows watching the wall on the north for your game of thrones fans so he was in the guts of the plane working the ECM stuff and he knew some of the guys in the RB 47 case from 1957 including Lewis

Chase because they were a relatively small knit community and the RB 47 as bail he literally wrote the book on it. He wrote a history of the RP47 program, which I still have in my bookcase upstairs. And he described it as did others as like, as secret if not more secret than the U2. Not the plane. The U2, the plane itself was secret,

but what it was doing. So he would say we would sometimes get shot at by Fighter Command flying over North America because they didn't know we were up there because they didn't need to know. And so there could be, you know, this could be a Soviet plane or something. Blah, blah, blah.

And it's like, okay, thanks for the color there, Bruce. Great. Let's talk about the RV 47 case. He did. He talked about the crew. He knew them. He said, these incredible guys. Great.

None. Interviewed him at his home in Texas. Turned the camera off. It was just me and Finley. And I said, hey, do you have a recommendation for a good steak restaurant? And he did. And he said, yeah, yeah, I knew those guys. I had my own case.

And it's like, what now? Yeah. When I was flying in the RB, 47. same shit happened to us. I didn't know that. Would you, if you ever talked about that, probably said, no. Would you be willing to talk about it?

Yeah, he didn't say, fuck it. But, because he was a gentleman, but basically, what did I get to lose now? Okay. Finley, do we still take, yeah, roll, before he changes his mind. And so I interviewed him about his own case, which I don't think anybody had ever known about

or maybe his wife, I suppose. And he had been flying during the Cuban Missile Crisis down over Cuba. And the long and the short of it was, they ran into something that was a bit different than what happened to the RB-47 crew over the United States, but also very similar in many respects. And it knocked all their, in the 1957 case, they were getting pings back and stuff from the UFO, whatever it was.

In his case, as he described it, it just fried their gear. nothing but the pilots there was a visual sighting everything blah blah blah now for and again you can go on the film and hear Bruce talk about this himself you what interested me and this is in the film so for all you people who think out there that I am an arched bunker who doesn't believe in conspiracy theories and all that sort of stuff generally true but bet you know I asked Bailey I said well what what happened when you get back and he said well we were debriefed I don't think he said by AFOSI, but it was AFOSI, Air Force Office of

I think special investigations. And, you know, then what happened? He said, we were told not to talk about it, not to tell our families about it, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Oh, okay. Or said it was the fastest way, talking about UFOs was the fastest way to end of military career.

And they, you know, you'd be shipped off to Alaska or something and never fly again, kind of blah, blah, blah. And I was like, huh, so here's a highly decorated, chest full of medals, lieutenant colonel, US Airfare. I think he retired as a full bird colonel who had served his country and some pretty dangerous spots, you know, flying along the Soviet, the Eastern Block. That's what these planes were for. And, you know, I considered him a very credible gun. And it was the history of that, he wrote the history of that plane when he retired. And he's telling me, had my own incident, was told never to

talk about it. And so I never talked about it. We just didn't talk about it, that we obeyed orders. Okay. So, yeah, there was a cover-up. What it was, does it make it a space alien? Could have been covering up all sorts of stuff. But they were told not to talk. Wow. And so, yeah, that's, that's, so what makes the RB-47 case super interesting to me is not only that case,

but the fact that I know that there was at least one other RB-47 case because one of the guys in that plane who knew these guys too. Right. Told me about it. And it happened a couple of years after the 50s. case. So that's something I don't think Tim Prenti actually addressed in his attempt to take down the 57 case. But yeah, the great case. Still, to me, still a mystery. And that's the kind of case, unlike the vast majority of which can be easily explained, I think. That's the kind of case that still has me interested in UFOs, even though I'm not in euphology anymore. Yeah. Yeah. Other than critiquing on

Twitter, a filmmaker's names initials might be J.C. K-L. Yeah, there he is. Hey, Jared Bear. He's a nice guy. He is. Except for the part where he was disrespectful to Stan Friedman. Yeah.

If you could replace. Travel back in time to do this episode over again. It would be far fewer Jeremy Corbell references. For the two of you listening. Hey, do we know James Fox references? Oh, my God. Not yet. Not yet.

We'll talk about Jim Fox. If you had to replace any of the cases in best evidence, with maybe a more modern case or other cases. Are there any you would switch out and put in there that you can think of up the top of your head? All of them. I can tell you the ones I keep Tehran. Again, not without problems. There's issues with all these cases.

For sure. RV 47, Tehran, I would keep Shag Harbor. It's about it of those. There's probably another one that I'm missing that I can't remember. But those would be the three that I still really. kind of like and no coincidence those three were in the top five okay or six five or six uh the rest of them to me they're not super great cases or they're they've fallen apart like maumstrom and maybe randlesham yeah or they're problematic those three are still pretty solid yeah

shag harbor in particular well it would be my number two i still think rb 47 be my number one but shag whatever it was still unsolved and it was it was labeled a u.s by the authorities. And 59 years later, and I know that because it happened in the same year I was born, and I'm 59, it's still in a case that intrigues. And it's a case where I've had the opportunity to talk multiple times with the primary witness, Lori Wicons, Dickie Wicons, they call him. And we told that story where we walked over to Ryan said, hey, why do you know?

I don't know, Lori, you're the witness. You tell us what you know. It's like, what are you here? Lori's a great guy and it's fun. But the best UFO conference I've ever been to is probably the Shagabar UFO conference. It's not big and there's symposium word if they call it. And it's only one day and you and I went again last year.

Sadly won't be able to go this year because we're out of country. But yeah, it's great fun. And Yarmouth's a lot of fun. And it's a really good story. And you can actually go to that conference and talk to Lori. In fact, not only can you talk to him, he will track you down. He will come to you. He will come to you and talk to you and take photos and stuff.

And that's great. I love it. As opposed to Glenn Dennis and Roswell at the end where he was asking for money and stuff. Lori's not asking for money. If you buy him a drink, Lori's cool. Oh, go gladly take a drink. Take a drink. Who wouldn't?

But Lori, he just wants to hang and tell the story and talk to folks. He's just a friendly Nova Scotian. Yeah. And he doesn't, he has no opinions on the United States other than what crashed there. And even that, he saw something go in the water. And he said, I never said it was aliens. Yeah. They thought it was a plane.

I don't think he thinks it was aliens even now. But he says, it's stellar mystery. And we need to know what that is. Yeah. And I agree. I agree with them. Yeah. Any cases you put in there, you think?

Right. I stopped paying attention to modern euphology. That's fair. of, sure me. But also people like Anapolino Luna and all that sort of stuff. But it's, I don't want to call it the Tic Tac stuff because I think tick tack. But anytime you have pilots, who are they? What's your name?

Fraver. Fraver. DeTrick. Fraver. Those folks. There's another one too. Any one of them I can discount. But you start lining a bunch of them up.

It's like, okay, there can be something here. Certainly something worth looking into. Would it make my top 10? You know what? it probably would, if for no other reason, then it's just become so part of being in a top 10. Like, if you ask me, what are the top 10 albums of the 1980s? And if you say, Paul, you can do two lists, your favorites and the ones that you consider just the top 10 albums, sales, everything.

Like Michael Jackson's Thriller, Bruce Springsteen's born in the USA, probably a Madonna album or two. Probably a Bon Jovi album. You know, my personal list would have the Smiths. and REM and early U2 and whatever. I'm not sure the modern cases would make my personal list. Like I'd probably have the Hopkinsville Goblins. Oh, yes, yeah. But in terms of the importance to uphology

and the ability to capture the public's attention, RB47 would not be on my list at all. Instead, Roswell would and the modern stuff would absolutely be there. The difference between Roswell and the modern stuff is, I just don't buy work. There's nothing in Roswell. It is what they said it was. The modern stuff, there's a mystery there.

I think there's a genuine mystery. And it's in all seriousness, folks, I still care about UFOs as an interest enough that that's why I'm so anti-Germy Corbell and some of these people. Because I think they ruin it. I think they muck it up. They're not doing any good. They're actually doing harm, especially when they link up with people like Annapalina lunatic and Tim Burchett and that crowd who even a lot of people in the Republican Party go, you know, like it's not worth it. And so I think they undermine their own cause by associating with that and running around in Congress and all this sort of stuff. That's not investigating.

That's that's that's that's that's that's not documentary filmmaking. That's being an advocate, a proponent, a polemicist, whatever you want to propagandaist. And that's fine, cool. I just don't think it's productive because I think it's much more productive to say, this is weird, this is curious. Weirdly enough, Neil deGrasse Tyson's full of himself and it's tough. But even he will occasionally go, well, it could be a mystery. Mishio Kaku, much better.

Mishio Kaku. I don't know what it is, but it's mysterious. NGET is actually opening up a little more, too. A little bit. Yeah. I think it's probably because he came out with a UFO book. Yeah, it might have something to do with the dirty, filthy Luke or two. Yeah.

That's fine. I have, like I, people would ask me who I, we did that thing. Who do you miss most? I mean, Stan, because he was my uncle. Carl Sagan. Like, weirdly up, they both went to school together. And while they were friendly, they also did not share the same view of UFOs. But Carl Sagan, Carl, like I knew, Carl Sagan was not as close-minded to

people believe he was. He certainly didn't believe. But I, you know, I liked the way he thought, too, that if you could show me proof, I think Sagan was amenable to changing his mind. I just don't think he ever saw proof that the kind of proof he needed. I wish more people were like that. I'm not Sagan. I'm more, obviously not, because he's smarter, was smarter than I am. But I want to see proof. But I like mysteries. So anything that is, Is it mysterious and interesting? It still interests me. Aztec, no.

Roswell, no. But some of the older cases, yeah, because they're still unexplained. Shag, good example. 59 years later, still. Still unexplained. Cool, doesn't mean there's aliens, but it means it's still interesting to me.

Why haven't they explained it? Yeah. RB47 falls in the same category, Tehran, that kind of stuff. So a modern case, I'm just not up other than the Tic Tac stuff with those pilots as a just a general

Plus anything on third phase of moon That stuff is gold Totally The truth is in there The alien that was in the Vegas backyard That didn't make you top 10 You know if you

If you want to find out what the truth is You should You should watch chasing UFOs Especially the Stan Romanek episode That is so top-notch investigative reporting. I feel bad for him. Every time I come on the show, I ruin them. When people, he loses subscribers.

It's mine. I lose subscribers for other reasons. I subscribe. Thank you. Thank you. Subscribe to your wrestling podcast, too. We're back. Somewhere in the ring.

Ding ding ding ding. It was good. I kept doing it. Thank you. Because the rest of the wrestling podcast in the world is shitty. They're pretty bad. But yours was actually fun. I appreciate that.

We will be watching Smackdown in a little bit. Yes, that's true. We're going to go watch Smackdown with Jeremy. Isn't it hilarious? I'm like, yeah, Paul, we'll do 45 minutes an hour, an hour, 20. I told you I'm long-winded, man. I love it. Yeah, I love it.

Actually, I don't have to tell you that anymore, you know. This always happens on a UFO show. Should we do fields of fear next or should we do Blood Island? We skipped an entire documentary. We did. Well, you want to go to, Puerto Rico or do you want to go to Alberta King? Oh, that is a

Oh, that is a tough choice because I don't want to go to either. Puerto Rico Nick Redfern got sick in Puerto Rico with Montes. What was it called again? Blood Island or Island of Blood? Island of Blood. Island of Blood. Well, fun story. Okay, so I'll, insider baseball. We went to Puerto Rico.

I was doing a documentary called Fields of Fear for Canadian television about Fern Belzo. The lake Fern Belsoe. He was a cattle rancher out of northern Alberta, St. Paul, Alberta, where they had the a beautiful landing pad. And he had become sort of an amateur cow mutilation investigation. He was in his 70s at the time, I think.

And he looked like he was amateur. 9,000. But he was a rancher. He knew cows and everything. He became fascinated by this cowlumulation thing. And he didn't say animal mutilation. He said cowl. So he knew cattle.

And I think he'd probably been roped into it or got into it because there were one or two cases in northern Alberta or something like that. watch the film and you can hear a story. It's been so long I can't remember how you get roped into it. And what I wanted to do is the only time I read a network tell me, and it was after the fact, no, because they usually just let me do what I wanted,

which was great. And so I said, well, I want to do a cross-cultural or whatever. I want to show that it's not just like a North American phenomenon, that it's not just in Alberta. It's because Alberta's four crazy people. sorry you want to separate from Canada you're all crazy anyone who wants to separate from Canada you're crazy it's like the rest of Florida the rest of you are great

or Texas yeah or Quebec in the old days for us in Canada and maybe the future days but so I wanted to go to Puerto Rico and do the Chupacabra now the Chupacra is not cowlumulation but it is kind of animal mutilations it mutilates animals

suckers yeah let's let's see if there's similarities so we went I think we were there for seven days. And I took Nick Redfern down with me as the expert. And we got a guy, Orlando Pla, lovely fellow, who was the local guy, spoke the lingo because none of us spoke Spanish. And yeah, I was a great phone. We went up to El Yonke and all. We were in a field somewhere in Puerto Rico and rural Puerto Rico where they had seen, they'd raised chickens down a little road or something like pigs to.

and some have been killed by the Chupacobra. And they'd seen flying things. And we went to a police station in southern Puerto Rico and Maigues and talked to a lieutenant, lieutenant, whatever, who had investigated Chupacobras in an official capacity. And so blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Did all that. And came back and cut the film, and it was like both.

Send it up to space. And they sent it back and they said, ditch the Puerto Rico stuff. We just wanted the Canadian stuff. I'm like, okay. Fern's the least interesting part of his own documentary. It's an interesting story. And it's kind of like a Stan Friedman profile thing. It's interesting, but there's not a lot.

Yeah, you know, the Puerto Rico stuff is actually more interesting. They said, yeah, just take that out. I don't know whether they were right or wrong. So I took it out and re-edited. There's the Fern. You can watch the Fern Belzel documentary. What I did was afterwards, I still had all this Puerto Rican footage. So I cut it into a film, quotation marks, called Island of Blood.

And which, yeah, because they had a rule in Nova Scotia back then, that to get a bonus on the tax credit, which we used to fund the films, you would get like a 5% bonus if you'd film three films in two years, I think. And I had only, I had a new film coming up. Or I would think it was an Eternal Kiss, my feature film, whatever, that I never talked about. because it was terrible. And then I spent four years drinking afterwards. So, yeah, it's a different story.

I have failed, folks. I have failed miserable. We all have. Yeah, no, not quite like that, right? I destroyed my entire company and almost my career. But to get the bonus, I cut together the Puerto Rico footage into a film called Island Island of Blood. And it was, I was so not lazy.

I just, it's like, I'm just doing this to get the, the 5%. Period. A qualifying film. I'll stick it up on YouTube. The government's stupid. They'll buy it. And they did. It worked. I did it with Stephen Greer, too. I made a film out of an interview I did with Stephen Gere. I did. I don't think I put that one up or I did and I took it down. Stephen Greer, the disclosure imperative. I made a film allowing Stephen Greer full reign without any editorial like Paul's popping in and going, you know, this is all bullshit. None of that. Just, off you go, Steve, because it was an interview I conducted with him in 2001 that didn't make the Friedman film.

Did that get the extra 5% too, so. You know what you're doing. I know what I'm doing and I'm also, yeah, I totally will prostitute myself for 5% on a funding bonus or whatever. But the Allen of Blood, unlike the career film, which was pure grift, the Allen to Blood, the difference between me and a grifter,

I will admit to it. Like I will tell, I'm telling you now I did this just so I could get an advantage in funding. Haven't done it since. Honest. The Island of Blood actually took the footage that space had rejected. And I wanted to cobble it together.

But I didn't want to spend a whole lot of time translating the Spanish. Because what would happen is, you're Nick. I'm the Spanish guy in Puerto Rico. And Orlando would translate between the two. So I'd be like, so wait, you're Nick. You'd be like. So tell me what's going on with the Tupa Copro. okay, that's kind of like what Nick would say.

And that folks, if you're Spanish and you're watching this, I apologize. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Lionel Messi, goal, we cheat. Sorry, that's a dig at the Argentina football team. They cheat. They're cheaters, dirty cheaters. Go England. Go anyone but Argentina.

I would cheer for the United States over Argentina. Oh, wow. Yeah, no, I know. I didn't want to translate that or pay somebody to translate it. So I left the interpreter in. So what you would get would be Nick going, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then you would have like Orlando just standing there. And the Spanish guy, the local guy, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

And then you'd hear Orlando go, what he said was blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, in English to Nick. And Nick would be like, so Nick's heard it twice. He's like, right, next question. I just couldn't be bothered. And it's probably the purest film I've ever made. That's the raw footage. Because there's some raw footage. And there's some funny footage of me and Nick goofing around now.

He'll came from a chippocopra doll and stuff. So it had kind of tongue in cheek. But it did talk like there were cases. The farmer who had his animals mutilated, the lieutenant, I believe, who had investigated it. Somebody else, some old guy in a park somewhere so long ago, he's in there too talking about it. So, and Orlando knew a lot about Chupacobarous. So we actually interviewed a scientist too, and he didn't make the film. For some reason, I couldn't find the footage, but he was pretty good as well.

He was a biologist in Puerto Rico. And he didn't completely rule it out. He didn't think it was a space alien. He just said, it could be some creature weren't aware of or escaped monkeys from an American research facility. There were all sorts of theories. I love that. And yeah, Island of Blood. Is it still online?

Yeah. Okay, there you go. you can go watch that. I haven't watched it. It's my best work and my worst work all at the same time. But Puerto Rico was a blast. First day out there, I got robbed, had a gun pointed in my face in Old Town San Juan. John Rosbroe and I went out drinking a lot in San Juan. And we took a cab back one night and we had a nine o'clock call time. And my brother, who we call Il Duce, or we did back then because he was kind of like the needle, you know, like the trains have to run on time kind of stuff.

That's what he was there for to be our production manager, make sure things. So Jim was like, be there at night. And John, I remember sitting in the car at the cab. The cab driver was telling John, hey, again, terrible accent posts. But hey, hey, I know where a great party is. You guys want to keep partying. I know where to take you. I'm like, I do, but I don't want to keep parting.

John was like, yeah, let's do it. And so I got out of the car, but John drove off in the cab. And I'm like, I hope I see him again. God, some food who's there. ceremony on the country or something. Whatever. No, that would be Haiti, which he had actually, I think, filmed it. So I get up the next morning and I'm down there.

Oh, I am hungover, but I'm not super hungover. Thunk, roll out of bed, no shower, just throw clothes on. Down the lobby, I'm there like five to nine. My brother's there. Where's John? Because the rest of us are all there. It's coming. It'll be right.

8.59.52. comes around the corner. And you can, I think he's still drunk. He keeps smelling. But John, who will never probably see this podcast, but John's a dear friend. John, John, John and I used to, you know, we could have to hold their liquor. And you wouldn't know. He's just hearing his sound, gear and everything, good to go.

Went to the back of the band, the very last row. And it's like two minutes after we got on the highway. Sleeping in the back of the van, soon as the band stops. Yeah. Okay. Boom pole. There you go. Who my mic?

Man was a consummate, and I mean this. I really do mean this, consummate pro from all you kids I work with now. The film industry was a lot different back then. We were a hard drinking bunch of hooligans. But the work got done. The work absolutely got done and done well. But we also had a lot of fun doing it too. And yeah, I just remember when we were in my guise, Orlando, we're all hungry.

It was 800,000 degrees or whatever. It was like baked. And it was wet heat, too. It was terrible, humid and everything. and we go into this restaurant, kind of like a diner. And Orlando goes, whatever you do, don't, like, there's things you can eat, that sandwich, that sandwich, that sandwich, that sandwich. Don't eat anything with a salad, like egg salad, tuna, whatever, because you'll get sick. Yeah.

Because it's like an eight, there's no air conditioning here. This stuff is, it's rotten as they're making it. And fine, Nick, it's an egg salad sandwich. Nick. Yeah. Eats it. No problem. We drive all, like my guise is down here.

We were in said, so we drove up, the pig farmer guy was like here in the middle of nowhere. And then we finally get home back to the hotel in San Juan, really nice hotel. And, you know, Nick and I and John, I think, had a margarita or two in the hotel. We didn't go out that night. We'll get a couple drinks. And towards the end of it, Nick was like, oh, I don't know what it is. Oh, you know, it's not the drinks aren't sitting well with me at all. Okay, thanks.

Good night. Next morning, it's like, oh, Paul, it's like Montezuma's revenge. I spent all night on the toilet, literally shitting myself. I'm like, you got it all out, right? He's like, I think so. We'll see. It's into the fan. And he did, but he was like, oh, I'm just going to sit here.

And he would say to my brother, stop driving over pubs and stuff. It was terrible. But on the first day, we're driving up to Yolki and this guy goes by us on the motorcycle and Jim was driving, Orlando was at front, I was in the, I think it was me and Philly Room, in the second row, Nick, and I think was Will Fraser was with this, whoever our production coordinator was in the back,

pretty sure it was Will. And his, all he had was a T-shirt, no helmet or nothing, not his boat, and his T-shirt flipped up because it's not tucked in. And you can see him behind him, he's got a gun tucked in there as if, you know, whatever.

And my brother, he goes, is that guy like got a gun? Because he was a little angry, the guy cut us off. And Orlando said, don't say anything. Don't worry, just slow it down a bit.

Said, yeah, everybody here has guns. I went, oh, is it, that looks like a Glock. Orlando said, yeah, I think so. That's popular. And it's like, why did they have it? And he said, why do you think? It's like, I don't know.

I'm from Canada. I don't know why anybody would have an unlicensed firearm stuck in the back of their shorts because he's wearing shorts on a motorcycle without a helmet. This is foreign to my experience. It is the law in Canada that we wear helmets on motorcycles and that we don't have guns. So Puerto Rico is a very interesting place. I really enjoyed my time there just by being robbed. Yeah, if you've never had a gun pointing directly in your face, folks.

Here's my piece of advice. Give me your wallet. I did. But fortunately, it was owning money. I didn't have any cards in it. anything. And there's like, cool, okay, thanks bye. And then they just walked off. Yeah, good times. But yeah, we had a lot of fun in Puerto Rico. And so Island of Blood, I should watch that because it's terrible. But there's some good stories in there too. And I actually

disagreed with the network. I thought it was been a nice. Yeah, companion piece. Yeah. And the only film I did for that network after that was best evidence. And then I never worked with them again. and they just, their commissioning editor left and a new one came in and I wasn't the golden boy anymore. Yeah. Somebody else became the golden boy. There's always another golden boy. Yeah, you learn a valuable lesson about film and television production that, you know, always have other irons in the fire because networks can change personnel. And when they change personnel, you could be out and somebody else could be in or you could come in and somebody else's leap.

There's only so many slots. But it was actually probably good timing because I had done, I didn't have anything else to do. I had one other film I wanted to do on the paranormal subject. And that was best evidence, top 10 cryptozoology monsters or monsters or whatever you want to call them. And they thought about funding it and they didn't. And I took it to discovery and they were close and they didn't want to do it at the end either. And so I never did it. And then I wound up doing ghost cases for East Link and got into ghost hunting.

And I never looked back to UFOs after that. Yeah. Feature films and ghosts and whatever else we do. Yeah. Ghost cases would evolve into haunted. That's the project I became a part of. That's why I'm here right now, filming the spinoff, haunted heart and soul, which is going incredible. And it's been quite a journey. I think it's so interesting. We were talking about I'm writing a chapter on you in my book and how your life went from like UFOs to ghosts. And my life has now kind of gone UFOs to ghosts. And we're kind of on these similar paths when it comes to the, the mysteries.

True, but for the same reasons. You get into it because somebody offered you a job, and the irony is, it was me. So the circle, you know, the karmic wheel or whatever. And I was like, yeah, okay, now Ryan's my friend. It would be fun to have him around and we need another co-host. So, yeah, for writing. And then he became a ghost hunter and a pretty damn good one too.

Thank you. He's lasted longer than most people have on the show. Most people are not named Paul, Pauley, or Dill. Yeah. Those three lasted. No, it's, you know, like I needed a job at the time and you were there for me. But, I mean, I have come out of this being like, holy crap. Like, I think there's definitely something to a lot of this stuff.

And I'm learning more and more every single investigation. And there's just there's coincidences and then there's something else. And that's something else is just because. becoming more and more profound, I think, for me in a lot of these things, especially when you get deeply connected to the history of a place, which I think is really cool. Your area of expertise or the role that we gave you in Heart and Soul, which you took to like a fish to water. Right. Because you do this, you do this. Yeah. So you're good at. Holly used to do it on Haunted back in the day when we would do it because I hated it. I'm good at it. I like talking to

people. I just didn't want, I was lazy. I just didn't want to do it. And so she, you know, it's like, Holly, you go talk to the witness. You go. And she was really, she was pretty good at it. And then we just stopped doing it and became about us and that was my mistake. But the new show is course corrected that a bit by bringing that history back in and the idea of making sure that we talk, you talk, although I'm taking over in season three. I'm back, baby. But the idea that, you know, we want to talk to the people that have had those experiences and then go see if we can have them or replicated ourselves or your host, yourselves, because I'm never going to be on camera again. But he says that.

No. But Holly is. Yes. Coming back. One member of the triad, Dylan's going to be director of photography. I'm directing, and Holly's going to be returning his co-host in season three, and also co-directed. Love it. Because around season 10, I think, I don't want to say I let her, but I offered her the opportunity to direct an episode or two per season.

And she's actually pretty good. She's, she didn't. Look at my face. She actually pretty good. No, she's pretty good director. And I think she just looked at what I did. And they did everything different. And that turned her into a much better director.

What a teacher. I love that. Yeah, don't do what I do. He's much more organized. Hey, I mean, you got 15 seasons out of haunted. You got 16. Excuse me. We did an extra season for like unfunded.

We just said there was season three. There was so much that went on. We gave East Lincoln extra season. Or 26 episodes instead of 13, which constitute... You're getting up to, like, ancient aliens level, season-long. 16 seasons of 13. What's the math on that? 8-178.

I don't know that. That's like 208 episodes, I think. That's incredible. Of Haunted by the end. And now, and many of them, after season four, they were all hour-longs. So, you know, pretty significant. Yeah. And now, Haunted Heart and Soul, you will have done 26 episodes by the end of this season.

And we have seasons three, four, and five. committed to. So that would be an extra 39 episodes. So even Haunted Heart and Soul, even if it only goes to five seasons, we'll have 65 episodes, put them together. It's 270 episodes, give or take.

And I believe that makes us one of the longest running, will make us one of the longest running shows in Canadian history. Wow. But certainly, I would bet your life on this. I bet Jeremy Corbell's life. Okay. The longest running, I think it's the longest running,

it'll be the longest running paranormal-related show in Canadian. in history and one of the longest running paranormal shows in world history. You know, ghost hunish. That's a lot of ghosts. Yeah, so take that, Zach Bagan's. Yeah, you hear that? Actually, Ghost Adventures has been running for a long time, too.

It has, but we don't talk about that weird. So, yeah, I mean, it's a happy, it's a fairy tale, right? Everybody makes money. Everybody does what they like doing. We all like being part of it of the ghost thing. And it's interesting. And we get to tell interesting stories. Absolutely.

I feel to get paid to go across, across this beautiful place, Nova Scotia and hunt for ghosts. It is a dream come true, so I have to thank you for that. And I've learned so much, I've been scared sometimes, I've had a lot of fun. We created a bog squash.

We literally manifested our own cryptid that they almost put into the cryptid museum. You remember that? Yeah, I think they might be starting to use it. The tourist literature on Long Island up in northwestern Nova Scotia. The bog squatch of Briar Island.

Yeah, who would have thought it'd be so easy. Hey, he came through to us on the Ouija board. Apparently? Him and his five wives or whatever it was. It's a bit of a player. He was a Mormon. Yeah, yeah, or a player. Yeah.

Well, he just lost a few listeners in Utah. Just a few more. Yeah. There goes the Utah audience. Well, this has been awesome, Paul, going through your entire UFO filmography. We'll have to come back and do maybe some more of ghost cases, haunted. Can I put the career film up?

Yes. that we by the way you'll notice that when we moved everything over yeah i subtly moved myself more towards the center frame and you've been so i look like the giant you've been pushed off more on your own show i am the narcissist that people make me out to be folks i'm coming to real i am center frame on his own show but someone with ryan's with this shoulder whatever his name is no you don't care it's just here we should know which way we go that way we go that way No. It was so easy. That's all we had to do. And yet, hi. Hi, guys. Awesome. Yeah, I get hit by the laser light. Oh, wait. There's a peepo.

These are my favorite episodes. Just, you know, we have kind of an idea what we're going to talk about. And then, you know, this happens. So I loved it. I loved it. I hope you guys enjoyed. Most of the conversation. Most of it. Yeah. Two lies become a truth. all the links to Paul's films will be in the show notes below so be sure to check all those out leave comments below on what you thought of them your brutal honest comments I would love for Paul to see those um I don't watch his show no never read the comment first rule of thumb being a filmmaker never read the comments don't do it never and I don't say that here like I probably will folks

but yeah you should never never read the reviews let's do a test okay If you're still watching this or listening to this in the comments on YouTube, put the code word bog squash. B-O-G-Squatch, S-Q-U-A-T-A. If you have made it this far with us, in the comments below, put the word bog-squatch. If you're on Spotify listening to this, in the comments, put bog-squatch as well. if you're on Apple Podcasts, leave us a rating and review,

put Bog Squatch somewhere in your review. We will know you made it this long into this episode, and we will thank you kindly. Yes. Whatever this was. Remember, I'm evil, but I also genuinely find UFOs and ghosts.

Interesting. And while I like getting paid, I've got it paid to do a lot of other things. In fact, I did feature films, classical music. I've done a lot of stuff. I wouldn't say I'd do this stuff for free because I didn't. But I, it was, as Ryan said, it's great to get paid to do something you love. Yeah. And Michael Stan had the same point of view. That's how he made his living folks as a euphologist, as a lecturer, whatever. And, you know, he would say, yeah, I get paid to do what I want to do.

Like, that's a pretty good life to lead. If you can pull it off. So the alternative was practicing law for me. And no offense to my lawyer friends, but I'd be dead by now. I just would have, I would have had eight heart attacks. Yeah. For me, it's just a bonus. Like, I would do all of it for free. But for me, I'm a bartender and a barista. You're not a bartender and a barista?

I was. I've seen you do that stuff. You're terrible at it. What? No, you're an actor. That's true. At the end of the day, and you're a playwright. That's true.

And you're a pretty good barista as far as playwrights go. Now, you're a published playwright. That's true. You shouldn't be ashamed of it anymore. where you should say, I'm published. He's published. I'm a playwright. And an author. And an author, playwright.

You're not really an actor anymore because you don't act. That's your training. So author, playwright, television. Media personality. I love it. Thank you. You were a barista the same way I was a security guard. It's in a rock band, which I was.

After law school, I played in a rock band, but I was a security guard to earn money. That's you as a barista. I do not go around telling people, hey, Paul, what do you do? I'm a security guard. okay i'm just i'm not trying to i'm not i'm trying to build you i know i know i appreciate that because i don't want you to be another jason mosher where i steal everything from you i've already nudged you out of your own show that was genius i mean i created the entire joe saraco show and then put joe in the show that's true it's cruel only you can do that yeah that's true awesome

well thank you so much for joining us today on summer in the skies we need you off It's a joke between me and it's like, we need you. I get there. And as they would say, Black Tiger, thank you, bye.