Somewhere in the Skies - Betty and Barney Hill: The UFO Incident

Episode Date: May 9, 2022

On episode 264 of SOMEWHERE IN THE SKIES, we welcome back television and film writer, Andrew Sanford, to discuss the 1975 film, The UFO Incident, based on the events of Betty and Barney Hill. The film chronicles Barney (James Earl Jones) and Betty Hill (Estelle Parsons), an average couple who encounter a UFO but refuse to discuss the incident, only to find years later that their secret is putting a strain on both themselves and their marriage. They decide to visit a psychiatrist, and, under hypnosis, deliver remarkably similar stories about the aliens they believe they saw, and what might have happened to them on that fateful night. Ryan and Andrew discuss the accuracy of the film and their theories on the evidence brought forward then and now. Follow Andrew Sanford on Twitter: https://twitter.com/SanfordMinusSon Ryan is now on Cameo! Book your video today at: https://bit.ly/3kwz3DO Please consider helping the people of Ukraine: https://bit.ly/37ELIRS Patreon: www.patreon.com/somewhereskies Website: www.somewhereintheskies.com YouTube Channel: CLICK HERE Official Store: CLICK HERE Somewhere in the Skies Coffee: CLICK HERE  Order Ryan’s book in paperback, ebook, or audiobook by CLICKING HERE Twitter: @SomewhereSkies Follow Chrissy Newton on Twitter at: https://twitter.com/chrissynewton Instagram: @SomewhereSkiesPod Read Ryan’s Articles by CLICKING HERE Watch Mysteries Decoded for free at: https://bit.ly/3rJpbd7 Opening Theme Song, "Ephemeral Reign" by Per Kiilstofte SOMEWHERE IN THE SKIES is part of the eOne podcast network. To learn more, CLICK HERE Copyright © 2022 Ryan Sprague. All rights reserved. Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/somewhere-in-the-skies. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Krispy, saucy, and $4? Very. Only at 711. Valley through 62326, participating stores only while supplies last the app for full terms. This is Somewhere in the Skies with Ryan Sprague. What's up, guys? Ryan Sprague here again from Somewhere in the Skies. We're going to be talking about the Betty and Barney Hill UFO incident, which surprisingly,

I haven't done a full episode of the show on yet. So I thought who better to bring in than my good, good friend here in New York City. He is a TV writer, a screenwriter, which we're going to talk about at the end of this episode, and just an all-around amazing, amazing person. And he is skeptical of the UFO question, which is what we desperately need in this field. So it's going to be a lot of fun to break down this movie tonight and the alien abduction phenomenon with him. So without further ado, let's bring him in. Andrew, welcome back to somewhere in the skies.

I almost don't appreciate that you outed me as being skeptical right at the top because I've seen the YouTube comments about me before. And I don't want people to lose their faith in me right off the bat. You don't have to be nice. Just don't talk about my glasses because that. Okay, just be nice. Now, yeah, do it, Ryan. Let's rewind.

I'm going to start the intro over. No, I'm just kidding. I'm kidding. I'm going to say hello to everyone in the chat. What is up, Cindy? We've got NFSTR Z3-4. What's up, Justin? Benji is here.

Lisa, Grant, Skinwalker dressing. Jason Faye. Welcome, guys. Yeah, isn't that a good one? I love that name. Skinwalker ranch dressing, I think. Did I say that wrong? I did.

I did. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That makes more sense. Now I haven't become death is here. David Blaine. What? Ooh, interesting. We were just talking about magic.

We were talking about magic. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But Copperfield. No Blaine stuff. No Blaine. Let's try. No Blaine. This is a Copperfield show.

I can say that officially. I'm wearing one of the, one of the somewhere in the sky's t-shirts, which you can purchase at T-Public, I believe, still. That is correct. Thank you. You can get this handsome. You're such a good model.

Thanks for doing that, my man. Tpublic.com, everybody. The public, Tfabweb somewhere in the skies. Thank you for having me. I am very excited to talk about this movie and to hear about the case. As I told you beforehand, you had done your due diligence

and sent me all this wonderful stuff to read, which I did read a little bit of, and then I think somebody puked, and then I had to clean that up. Actually, no, I shouldn't say that. So I have a two 13-month-old twins. Yeah, we should probably say that. You were not the one who puked.

I was not the one who puked. My wife was not the one who puked. She would appreciate if I clarified that. I did not get to read the extra stuff, but as people who may be familiar with me on this show are, I love learning stuff from you. While I may be a skeptic, while I may be somebody who needs, yeah, just not there. Just not there. I would love for, I think my thing is always, I would love for something like a spaceship to show.

Who wouldn't? That would be awesome. I think that's just not. I just don't. I personally do not see that happening. However, I always love listening to you because you're passionate and you do your research and you talk to people and you get this, as you've always said, human perspective out of things. And I'm excited. I just thought like, you know, well, instead of trying to read through that while I'm trying to get some kids to eat squash, which they do.

I would just wait and listen. And maybe some of the people who are watching as well may be not as familiar with the case and they can learn along with me. And we will keep an open mind and all that good stuff. Because based on the movie, I have some thoughts. You and me both, brother. I have a couple thoughts. Just a couple. Well, let's see here.

Now I become death ass. There's a Betty and Barney Hill movie. Yes. So that's what we're discussing tonight. This was a made-for-television movie, actually. It aired on October 20th, 1975, on NBC. And, yeah, this was as, I'm going to say it right now, kind of as accurate as you can come when it comes to adapting certain events for television or movies.

When it comes to UFOs, a lot of people, Andrew, you included, were introduced to the Fire in the Sky movie. And that is a huge departure. from what supposedly actually happened to Travis Walton, the locker in Arizona, you know, so far as him coming forward after the movie came out and being like, yeah, like none of that actually happened. They wanted to make a horror movie. They wanted to set it apart from other movies that had come out at the time about abductions.

So they kind of straight up, like went with a horror-esque aspect. And that's really not what he experienced. But with this movie, as we're going to talk about tonight, A lot of this dialogue actually comes directly from the transcripts of the hypnosis sessions that both Betty and Barney Hill went under with their abduction experience. So, I mean, we're getting, like, we're literally getting it from the mouths of the people who claim that this happened. And I'm actually going to play a little later some of the audio clips from the actual hypnosis sessions, which are, they're, they're tough. Even in the movie, they're pretty wild. Even in the movie they're like they're intense.

There's some good. And again, that has to do. I think we'd be remiss if we didn't mention that in this movie playing Betty and Barney, you have Estelle Parsons who for me, she's done a million things for me personally, maybe for some others. I know her best as the mom on Roseanne. And James Earl Jones is in this, a younger James Earl Jones. And it's, they're incredible.

a lot of stuff really work. And also, so that I was going to tell you this before, I would just want to get this out of the way because I'm too darn excited. The director, Richard A. Cola, directed a lot of television, like a lot, like, and it's always like one episode, like McGiver, uh, Chips, Wizards

and Warriors. Miami Vice. Miami Vice. But he directed the original Battlestar Galactica movie. Yes. After this, just a few years after this as well. And and then directed,

I probably, probably the pilot maybe more of the television show as well as the original TV show. So there's just, it's, and then with the writers, they went on to like, right, one of them wrote like Children of a Lesser God, I

think. And the other one wrote like, yeah, Bob Hope special. Like there's just some like, it's interesting to, look at like a TV movie, which I even think at the time would have garnered some kind of stigma, but eventually like, you know, TV movies can be hit or missed and see just some heavy hitters like this. Like it's, it's, it's, I love seeing stuff like that. I love seeing people like, you know,

these people, almost everybody involved went on to have very solid careers. Some even, you know, way more than that. General Jones just had a theater on Broadway named after him. Yeah. So there's just like some, it's just awesome that all that was involved just for a TV movie on, you know? Well, and you know, I think that kind of goes to the credibility of this case. Now, this is a case that a lot of people in the UFO field, when it comes to abductions, myself included, I am a skeptic believer. And I have interviewed hundreds of people who have claimed to have been abducted by aliens. but I'm not going to flat out say that I buy it 100% the people that have spoken to me. I believe they believe this happened to them, but did it actually happen in the reality as we know it?

I couldn't tell you. But this case, Andrew, is really one that I turn people to turn the skeptics to look at and be like, huh, because first you have this dynamic of two people experiencing it. A lot of these cases, it's one person claiming they were abducted, kidnapped by aliens, experimented on, brought back. And, you know, there's no one else there to really corroborate the story. Here you have a couple. And we will talk about that couple in just a little bit. Under different regressions and together, but first, separate, telling very strikingly similar stories, which is controversial.

And I'm sure we can dive into that as well. But you did mention the writers. I do want to also add that one of the writers on the screenplay was a gentleman named John G. Fuller. And he actually wrote a book. He was the first to actually make this story go public. Wow. It was featured in a Boston newspaper. But this book was the first time that this story really broke and went international.

And Betty and Barney Hill became like, you know, names across the world, not just in the United States. and John wrote a book called The Interrupted Journey. And he would go on to also help write the screenplay because he was part of the original investigation of this case, meeting directly with Betty and Barney Hill, you know, garnering relationships with them. And really, they put their trust in this guy to do their story right.

And the book did incredible, so much so that there eventually came this movie, not too many years later. How, like, what was the visibility like on this? I mean, I know, like, obviously, it must have been pretty strong. I've got a movie movie. Like, I'm trying to think of something else to compare it to that I've had experience talking to you about. Like, I think communion was like, wasn't communion a big seller?

Like that book and that's the one with the gray on the cover? Like, was it that kind of big? Like, was it like, was this something that everybody was kind of like, you know, when they say like literally everybody? Or was it more of like a, like it was popular? Yeah, to an extent. Douglas Spragge is here, by the way. I just want to say it with my father. Thanks for joining us, Dad.

Appreciate you being here. Hang around, Dad. Hang around. This story gets pretty crazy. We got Winston here from Australia as well. Let's see. We got Jake here. Awesome, guys.

Thank you. What time is it in Australia right now? Good question. It's got to be sometime in what? Are they ahead of us or behind us? I don't believe it's two days from now over there. Oh, my gosh. You're living in the future.

We're living in the future. Grant is too here. Grant's here from Australia. Hello. And yet I'm not getting, I'm not getting any answers about what time it is in Australia. We've got two Australian people. Let us know in the chat. Nobody.

Because look, again, I'm not, I'm not Googling unless I'm looking up the IMDB for this movie. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's what it was. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Let's go with that.

What was your question? I totally got, thanks, Doug Sprague. You got me all frazzled. About how, like, how popular was this? Like, how, like, are we talking, like, really, really huge? Or was it more like, honestly. I know that's a tough question. This was like the first case.

This was the first case. I'm, like, this is what put the gray alien into popular culture. The, you know, the image that Whitley Streber has on his book, that went crazy as well. pop culture, but these two were kind of the first to really bring this story, story forward of alien abduction. So when you say first case, you mean the first, like, recorded American case of alien abduction? Yes.

To go on record and really go public, I'm sure there were others deep in the, you know, bowels of UFO history. Yeah, dude. It did. 1960. Like, even when was Roswell, 57? 47.

47? nothing, nothing between 47 and 61, even after like that got into everybody's... Right. I would think there would be some people that would lie about it. Right. So we have the, throughout the late 50s into the 60s, we had the, what is kind of coined the contactee movement. You had a lot of these Space Brother stories where people claimed that they were visited by aliens who would bring them on their ship and bring them to, you know, Venus and bring them. back to Earth within seconds or

these people would go out to Joshua Tree in the middle of the desert in California and like channeling UFOs and aliens and talk to them. But this whole idea of aliens kidnapping, like unwillingly

by the humans taking people and experimenting on them, really came forward with this Betty and Barney Hill case. Yeah. That's fascinating to me. It's pretty interesting. I wouldn't have expected, I don't know, like even, like in the early 1900s at least, like when that stuff was like popping up in Pult novels and stuff like that, like War of the World, like even, even around

War of the World's time, nobody ever, that's so, sorry, I'm just, that's, this is pretty crazy, man, I know, I know. Well, and again, like, we got to think, you know, this is 61, so we're living in the, the, the, the atomic age. And what, let's, I guess let's, I guess let's, let's, kind of paint the picture. Yes, please. And welcome. We're featuring the New York City Sirens in this episode as well.

Apologies to everyone out there. 61. So we're kind of in the throws of the cold war. We're on the brink of a nuclear threat. Hopefully that's not what's going on outside right now.

Which is startling because we're living in an age right now where the thought of nuclear threat is bigger than it's been in a long time. So I do wonder, are we going to see an uptick in UFOs and this idea of abductions happening again? We won't get into that. We won't get into that. That's for another episode. But this idea of others, of others invading, of others having more power than us, of others just doing things against our will. This is something that will play out in the Betty and Barney Hill case.

So does the time period have a lot to do with this? Absolutely, because I would also say that we are very heavy in the civil rights movement at this point. And speaking of others and people not wanting people to get more power than they have and things of that nature. I just think that that was also on a lot of people's minds at this time, and I believe will be very relevant to this particular. And especially, again, at least the way the movie presented it. I do think from what I read in a little bit that I did read, it seemed like that is out there as well. But yeah, yeah. So here we have the actual Betty and Barney Hill.

I did want to, before we get into the movie, this is them and this is the actual couple. And like we mentioned, the civil rights movement, this was an interracial couple in the early 60s. So as you said, you can. imagine this was not easy. They also lived in New Hampshire, so I'm sure it was even harder. And that is kind of where we start this story. Let's kind of, I guess, we'll start from the beginning with the movie. Let's move to our next slide here.

So September 1961, we kind of start the movie where, like you mentioned, Betty played by James, excuse me. Barney played by James Earl Jones. Estelle Parsons playing Betty. They are with their dog in the car, and they're going down this road looking for something. They seem to be obsessed with trying to find a certain road that they were on where they don't remember something that had happened to them.

And constantly, they find themselves keep going out and out to look for this road and try to bring back these memories of something that happened to them that they just don't seem to remember. And that's kind of where our story starts. Yeah, wasn't it like they were driving someplace and all of a sudden they're like 15 minutes away, even though they had only just started driving? Yes.

So we have what was called missing time, which is a phenomenon that was coined later on by a alien abduction researcher named Bud Hopkins. And this happens with a lot of quote unquote abductees. They feel like there was time missing between. something. Either they black out and wake up somewhere else or they're just missing chunks of time in their life that they cannot account for. And within those gaps in time, uh, through such things as hypnotherapy and, um, in regression, supposedly real memories are brought to the surface of what could have possibly happened. Right. And, um, that's kind of what we see play out in this movie.

Betty and Barney end up going to a psychiatrist and a gentleman, named Benjamin Simon and try to retrieve the memories of what happened to them. But it's rough, man. I mean, this couple is just like at each other's throats because they both know something happened, but they don't know what. And they keep kind of like bickering at one another and having these really hostile arguments about, you know, why do we keep doing this? And we got to move on with our lives and this and that and this and that.

So like, all right, we got to talk to someone. and they end up finding this doctor. And he puts them both under hypnotic regression. And lo and behold, this is where our story plays out of Betty and Barney Hill, which we'll get to. But yeah, anything you want to cover before we really get into the meat of all that? Well, I think I'm trying to remember when they showed them having dinner with their friends. Was that before or after the psychiatrist? Now, the movie, we should say, is a little chop.

Now, we don't really know. We kind of jump between timelines of, is this from the past? Is this in the future? Is this the memory? Like, what's going on? So that's a little critique I have of the film is I wasn't exactly sure how the story was playing out at certain times, which could also play into the fragmented memories that they had. Sure, sure. Writers and directors were really going down that route.

But what you're referring to was a dinner party that they had at their home. And I believe this was after the event because we really start to see the two-filling each other. I knew it was after the event. I just didn't remember if it was after they, because we're going right to the psychiatrist, I didn't want to like not bring that moment up. Oh, gotcha, gotcha. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because that's when we get some of the first bits of the like racial tension going on between them.

Right. And how he says something about those white people are like, the white, um, and she gets offended that he, he lumped her in with the, these other people, these other white people. But she, yeah, is it like saying that she's different. I just, I, it was, it was a really interesting. I, so I am a half white and half black.

My parents are mixed. And I, uh, have always been kind of fascinated by mixed, uh, relationships, mainly because I love them. But I also know that there can be like, there was a time where it wasn't easy. And I think this is a great, I think this movie shows that in a very effective way. Again, a lot of that is the actors involved as well. But I think it's just getting across something that coincidentally enough at the time that we were able to handle a little bit better in like a public television kind of way.

It didn't feel forced. It didn't feel hokey. It didn't feel like a movie of the week. It didn't feel watered down. Like it felt like a very real conversation that they were having. I think she did that very well. I think everybody in that scene handled that very well. But I just love that.

And again, like I do think it, there's a little bias on my part, I guess, but there's also just this idea that I do think that's what the movie is pushing at the end of the day. because I think it's one of the scenes that it even slightly illustrates the movie's bias towards this being a shared hallucination from the two of them, brought on by, possibly brought on by an incident or like a hated, a hate, a hate crime or something like that. But also, or just the pressure between the two of them building and building and building and just kind of exploding at the same time. And then maybe some kind of shared psychosis like Randy Quaid and his wife. Yeah, yeah. Not to make light of it, but yeah, that was a good comparison for sure.

No, no. I want to thank Donnie. Yeah, Randy Quaid wishes. Yeah, right. I know. Oh, God, what is up with that guy? Where is he even anymore in a bunker somewhere? I think he was going to run for office somewhere.

Oh, God. Please know. Dania, thank you so much for the season. super sticker. I really appreciate that. Super chat is open, guys, too, if you want to help out the show. Put your comments up here. We'll answer your questions the best we can.

Before you ask again, yes, the shirt I'm wearing is available at tpublic.com. Tpublic.com slash somewhere on the sky is I love you. Well, okay. So, let's talk about

the, they go to their first session, hypnosis session. Let's see if I have a slide for that. I'm trying already. Nothing more reliable than hypnosis. Yeah. Well, let's talk about that. Let's talk about that. So we have Benjamin Simon played by a gentleman by the name of Bernard Hughes,

a very well-known stage actor and film actor as well. And does a great job of playing this psycho. who is extremely skeptical about what is eventually uncovered in these. Sure. No, and again, not a bad actor in the bunch. Like, this is all everything, this movie is really well made T to B. Like it's, there's, there's a lot of good stuff going on. Yeah, yeah.

So I guess what we can do is let's talk about the meat of Barney's first, hypnotic hypnotic regression. This is where I think James Earl Jones really shines in these hypnosis scenes. Absolutely. There's when he starts to, when he's trying to grab for his gun or where he's just like, when he's just like terrified, there's also

something, I'll say exciting because I can't think of another word, but it's also like kind of frightening and it's just like, I guess, titillating maybe and I don't know. But he's a big dude and to see somebody that big,

get that scared is scary. Like there's an extra impact to that. You're seeing somebody who's afraid who you think could take out a whole room full of aliens if you needed to. Like it's, I don't know, like it's just he's, that's a big, even at one point, like, he was walking around shirtless and I looked over my wife. I was like, this man was a beast. Like he was huge. I think he was like 39 when they made this, something like that. but he's, I just, he's, yeah.

So those scenes were so effective. And again, it didn't feel hokey or weird. It didn't feel, like, it felt very honest. And they really felt afraid during that, both of them, during both. Like, it's, I think that's what helps make the movies successful to begin with. It's also, I can see why the case is so allure. as well, not just on a extraterrestrial level, but

on a human level. Like, you feel for these people, because no matter what, they're going through something. Yeah. You know, even whether it's real or not, there's something, there's something wrong. And neither of them are, once it's really brought up to the surface, neither of them

are really ready to handle it. And it's, it's, I'm sure everybody's had something like that in their life. Right, right. Well, yeah. And so I guess with Barney, you know, the hypnosis brings out kind of the beginning of the encounter. Now, they hear this weird beeping noise. They see these lights over their car. And then they stop and they see a craft come down from the sky.

and these beings coming out of the forest towards them. And I actually, Andrew, now, like we mentioned, a lot of these hypnosis scenes were actually from the transcripts, from the hypnosis sessions that were recorded and are available to the public. And, you know, I would highly suggest if you haven't seen this movie, go watch James Earl Jones deliver this model. Yeah, and look, and it's, and it's an hour and a half. It's on YouTube for free.

Like, yeah, yeah, nothing to lose. And again, it's not, it's not boring by any stretch of the imagination. Like, it's, there's, there's, no, have you. It is. Have you heard the actual tapes? I have not. Okay. I'm going to play a partial, um, section from Barney's first, uh, hypnosis session

when he saw the beings. Um, and I want to get your thoughts on the other side after you hear this. Cool. All right. What did he tell you? Stay there and keep looking. Just keep looking and stay there. And just keep looking.

Just keep looking. Could you hear he tell you? Oh, I got to pull these binoculars away from my eyes. Because if I don't, I'll just keep staying there. Could you hear him tell you this? Oh, no. He didn't say it. You felt he said it.

I know. You'll know he doesn't. Yeah. Just stay there. He's saying to me. All right. I'll take it my head. All right.

Pull the binoculars away. God, give me his stress. All right. Pull him down. Holy God. Give me a stress. I got to get away. Oh.

Oh. I'm driving. I'm going to get away. Yeah. So initial thoughts. I mean, just hearing that one section. As we had said at the top, my mind is usually one that tends to go towards skepticism. To me, to see, like to hear a, I have heard that tone.

I have heard that terror. I have heard that horror before, and it can come when you are, when somebody does something to you, based something harmful something hurt like you know and and that is racially motivated

and this we're in 1961 they're driving down the middle of a highway if I had to guess what probably happened if I thought because my mind would not go to aliens

is that somebody probably stopped them and did something to them that they meant he could not reckon with and both came up with it. Because I do hear that terror in his voice, but I don't, that doesn't immediately scream alien to me.

And again, like, that's, if that's the story that they're telling and they were the ones that were there, and it's always something where, like, I am never saying, I'm never calling bullshit necessarily. I think it's just, I think there is. probably a more likely explanation. And I think it's something that happened to a lot of people back then,

especially people who dared cross that racial line. I get it. I understand. Now, let's, I guess, well, that's a good way to kind of set this up. Let's just play Betty's section as well. Now, you can see in this. And I might need another detail filled in for me, too, because something I, Because something I was having a hard time with in the movie itself was the flaming car or the car with the flames on it that was like chasing after them.

It seemed like what was what was that is that in reference to something that happened or is that? So in the beginning of the film, we get this weird choppy scene, which actually was very when I realized what it was, it was very startling. It's a group of like greasers. It's like straight up greasers. Yeah. white teenagers in their car and they saw this interracial couple drive by them. And their immediate reaction is to get in their car and start chasing after them and giving them shit about it. And as this is happening, Betty is actually having snippets like remembrances of aliens chasing after them.

So that was pretty effing terrifying. and also goes exactly to your point. We don't know what's up from left, excuse me, up from down, left from right, white teenage greaser or alien, which I think really plays into what you're saying. Yeah, like that, because that's what I was thinking. I was like, well, and hearing that explanation of it,

it almost sounds like, oh, this, somebody is committing a hate crime against her, against her, and she's, because of it is remembering this, other hatecrant that happened, which she has since cloaked in an alien abduction. I think that's where my mind goes with that. And I apologize to anybody who came here for something a little bit more lighthearted. I know. I mean, it's just on analysis.

This is not a fun story. No, again, this is very dramatic no matter what happened. I mean, look at the, look at her face. I mean, something happened to these two. I want to talk a little about, before we play her audio, the aliens that are shown in the movie. I thought they were great. Oh, my God, man.

Look at these things. They're so vapor-wavy and, like, simple. And I just love the big weird eyes. Like, those are great. And look, sometimes it's all about what you don't. chill, like they're covered in shadow for a good chunk of it. Like, I think that I thought that was really effective. I thought they did a great job with the practical effects.

I mean, no, almost no very early computer generated effects in this movie. They built that spaceship. They built this set. I mean, that forest looks like it was built in a studio, which I love. Look at that fake moon, too. It's so, like, simple. And it reminds me of like a, a comic book almost. Sure, sure. Yeah, it's pretty cool.

Yeah. No, I know. Like I said, there's a lot of good craft that went into this. Like, it's just, I'm interested to hear more about the actual case. I'll put it that way. Right. Because, yeah. Yeah. Well, let's see here. Now I am become death as what initially triggered their belief that happened in the first place. Again, I think it was in the movie really shows us. The hypnosis, and also just this feeling, this void in both of them of they came home. We should mention this. You know, they come home the night that this event supposedly happened. And Betty's dresses ripped and torn and Barney's shoes are all scuffed up.

And, you know, they've got like weird marks on them. and they just don't remember. They don't remember what happened. Or they didn't want to remember what happened. Which, again, is what we've been alluding to all night so far. But, yeah, that was what kind of initially triggered them to reach out to a psychiatrist and then try to unravel these memories. And then with Betty, her first hypnosis is, like, extremely.

Oh, yeah. vivid and we see this one image up there at the top of the aliens kind of doing weird tests on her and stuff. And you know what? Let me play the audio, Andrew, because that's kind of where I think I got the clip is when she's talking about what happened once they're on the craft. Now, they're dragged into this craft and, you know, Barney goes one way, Betty goes the other. and they don't even really know what happens to one another during this. So let's go ahead and play this small clip of Betty's actual abduction experience, according to. The examiner has a long needle in his hand, and I see the needle.

And it's made than any needle I've ever seen. And I asked him what he's going to do with it. And he said, just a simple test that won't hurt me. And I ask him what. And he said he just wants to put it in my navel. And it's just a simple test. I don't know. It won't hurt.

Don't know it. Don't know it. Don't know it. And he's a no, it won't hurt. And he takes a navel into my name. And he says, I'll be all right. I won't feel it. And all the pain goes away.

Again, like, it's hard to listen to this, no matter what happened. But, I mean, what do you think? What do you think after hearing that? That she was, like, at least sexually assaulted and whatever happened to them. It's hard to, it's hard to hear it any other way, personally. And I think, again, that they just had a really hard time dealing with it. But hi, Robert, I'm glad you're here, that they had a real hard time dealing with it. Even saying that it's something like that happening to her belly button almost feels like a, like changing up a slight detail, like almost like in a way to make it feel better for herself as to what happened to her.

Right. And. Yeah. Yeah, even the language, even with what the guy is saying to her in the moment, like, it won't hurt. Don't worry about it. Like, it's not, you won't feel anything. Like, it just all feels too familiar, unfortunately. And I know that there is a possibility for the brain to just not, you know, to kind of like shut down to protect you from things like that when things like that happened to you.

Yeah. Like, and I didn't even really pick up on it as much or that aspect of it. No, I think when I was watching the movie, I thought I was like, is this some kind of like abortion thing? Did she have, maybe have an abortion and couldn't deal with it? But then, no, like, hearing, especially hearing her there on the recording, I'm like, I think she was, I think something else happened. Hey, guys, Ryan here. The Summer in the Sky's podcast is a labor of love every week. And with that comes many different costs to keep the show running.

That's where our Patreon campaign comes in. You give what you think the show is worth. There's different rewards available all the time, including shoutouts on the show, early editions of main episodes, bonus episodes and content, and very soon, monthly patron hangouts, where we sit back and chat all things UFOs. So I hope you'll consider becoming a Patreon subscriber today. To learn more and to join, visit patreon.com slash somewhere skies.

Thank you for your support and keep looking up. Now, this is what a lot of skeptics turn to in terms of the alien abduction phenomenon. These are memories of childhood trauma, of sexual abuse, of, you know, anything to put a mask over what actually happened. And I completely understand what you're saying. And my only, not even defense, what I want to do, Andrews, because I understand everything you're saying. And it could very well have been a situation like that. But there is a lot of evidence that has been brought forward about what happened. Does somebody have the book?

Did somebody end up getting their hand on the book? Let's talk about that. So Betty says that these aliens, when she was aboard the craft, that they gave her a book that would explain who they are, where they come from, why they're doing what they're doing. And a lot of this stuff, they kind of like, they kind of, you know, slide it over to her and be like, all the answers are right here. And then they're immediately like, psych, take it back. We talked about it.

This is the only way that I can prove that this happened. Why are you doing this? Why are you doing this? And the other big thing was they showed her this star map of where they are from and where we are in relation to them. And I thought this was pretty funny. In the movie, ended the actual hypnosis session. And she says that the alien said, do you know where you are on this?

And she's like, no, not really. There are people on my planet who know where all the stars are and planets and stuff, but I'm not really one of them. So you probably picked the wrong person. She's like, but where are you guys from? The aliens straight up like, if you don't even know where the hell you are on this map, you're not going to understand where the hell we're from. So we're not being a bother with this.

You're wasting our time, putting you back in your car sort of situation. So I will say that was a detail. that peaked by it because she redrew the star map, yes? Yeah, so and let me get to that actually. Because my question, that is like, is there a specific way

to draw us, like, is there a format for a star map? Oh, this was her drawing? So her drawing is on the top left. After hypnosis, this is the sketch she came up with of what she remembered. And that was in 1963.

Astronomers in 1969 discovered this star cluster near Zeta reticuli 1 and 2. And just look at how similar it is. And most of those stars were not discovered until years later. So this is something that a lot of people turn to and be like, huh, like how the hell could she have known that? Look, no, that's, to me, that's more like the fun stuff. Because this is, there's really is no, like, there's no good way to explain that.

Right, right. Like, how do you, and I'm sure there are skeptics out there who can explain it away somehow. Like maybe she had some knowledge of it beforehand or- I was about to say, was she perchance college-educated? I believe so. I mean, she was an extremely intelligent woman. So is Barney was also extremely intelligent. He had like a crazy IQ from what I recall.

I'm realizing now that I don't really know much. about their lives before all this aside from the fact that they're both divorced. Yes, so they were both divorced. Betty grew up in New Hampshire, her entire family for over a century. Yeah, she got that accent. Yeah. It's crazy, dude. Estelle Parsons knocks it out of the park too.

Almost to the point where you can't understand some of it. Reminds me of another person from Massachusetts who's going to be featured in an upcoming episode of somewhere in the skies. Hey, that was a Maybe teasing a little something, something there. Cindy says, didn't scientists recreate? Never mind, Ryan's on it. Yep, we got you. We got you, Cindy.

Pinser says, makes a lot of sense. Good points, I think, talking about what you were saying, Andrew. But yeah, so the Star Map is definitely one of the more convincing aspects to all this. There's a few other things that, if you want, we can jump to. Sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

No, because I think people should check out the movie, I think, but I also think, like, you know, I think we've gotten into all that we can really get it. We talked about the aliens, you know, aside from that, it's just kind of rehashings of the case. So I would love to hear more about the case itself and ask some questions on my own. Well, I like this small piece of Twizzler that was on my desk. So here we have the University of New Hampshire actually set up an engagement. exhibit at their school about this incident. It did make, you know, New Hampshire on the map. It put them on the map when it comes to the whole alien thing. And what you see here is a, I still have that up. I believe so. It might still be up there. That is the actual address.

If it isn't, if I am mistaken, someone might correct me, it is a replica. The bust is of the alien that she supposedly saw. You've got a few other things in there. a sketch that she did, some letters, I'm sure, that were about the case. But this is pretty interesting. The school thought it was credible enough to make this. Let's see what else they have. I think I have a little section on that here. This is in the Diamond Library.

And yeah, it's got journals, essays, newspaper clippings, slides, films, audio tapes, all relating to this case. Did she go to the University of New Hampshire? I don't know that. I don't know. Someone in the chat might be able to fill us in on that. But yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm not too sure about that. But the dress, let's talk about that for a little bit.

This is another piece of evidence. Apparently, after the night that this event happened, Andrew, she thought, you know, something's going to come of all this. I know something happened. Maybe I'll figure it out. I'm not doing anything with the dress. And she kind of rolled it up. And you see this in the movie, too.

rolled it up in a ball and put it in the closet and, you know, didn't really bring it forward until people started asking for evidence of what happened. And she brought out the dress and it had, when they did like tests on it, they found some sort of substance on the dress that could not be explained. They had Ohio State, I believe, look at it. Their scientists, they had police look into it, other scientists as well. And there were some sort of. of residue on the dress that could not be explained in terms of a earthly explanation. And if you don't mind, last clip I'm going to show, I promise. No, no, no, no, please.

Okay. While we're on evidence, I'm going to show a clip of Kathleen Martin, who's actually the niece of Betty and Barney Hill. And she's kind of taking the reins on the case and kept it alive and kept the legacy of her aunt and uncle alive too with this thing. and she's done an investigation on it herself. But I actually found a clip of her talking about the dress with a local news station. I believe either in the UK or Australia.

But let me go ahead and play that. I don't know what time it is in Australia. Australia listeners. Let us know. Grant, you're in the chat. Let us know. People in the chat. That's going to mean nothing to hear the people hear that as a podcast.

Betty's dress was torn in several locations. There was a two inch tier in the zipper fabric, the stitching at the top of her dress, a one-inch tear in the thick zipper fabric. The dress was torn from waist to hemline, and the hem was deformed down on one side. It indicated that something had happened that Betty could not remember. It had been in fine condition when she put it on that day. She folded the dress up when she arrived home and put it in her closet, knowing that she would have to repair it. The next time she took the dress out, it was covered with a pink powdery substance, not the entire dress. Some of it remained blue, but the pink powder discolored the fiber in the dress and degraded the fiber.

Did you have it analyzed? What was it? It is one of the pieces of concrete evidence. It has been analyzed in at least five scientific laboratories to date, and the finding is anomalous. They have found proteins on the dress, they have found oils on the dress. They know that they did not. not belong to Betty. The dress is most deeply saturated with the pink substance in the areas where Betty stated that these non-human entities actually touched the dress. Is it of this planet? They were not able to determine whether or not this was of this planet. Certainly some of the material on that dress was. There was dirt. There was bacteria. There were those sorts of things

that would be on any article of human clothing, particularly after it had been sitting in a closet? So, yeah. I mean, that's Kathleen Martin, the niece talking about it. They found this pink residue that couldn't be explained. And there are also people in the chat are mentioning, I did not mention this,

and this was not talked about in the movie. There were marks on their car. There were radiation tests done on the car, which I don't know. They mentioned the marks on the car on the movie. Did they? Yeah, on the back of the movie. I think, or she's, uh, yeah, but they mentioned something being on the car.

Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But, um, but yeah, no, I, uh, I love how subtle the New Hampshire accent is. It's like a Massachusetts accent, but it only comes up. Um, no, I, um, I, I appreciate that she's still, uh, doing that. And I also think like this stuff, I love like, you know, physical evidence when it's something that can be with it that's kind of like hard to explain. Um, like, you know, because again, rips and tears.

an address that could just go along with the things that we've mentioned already. Once you add in an unknown substance on there, things start to at least get a little bit muddier. Was it a substance on the back of the car or just like mark, like, I believe it was like physical markings. I don't know if any sort of, if it was some sort of residue or something like that, but I do recall and again, correct me in the chat, guys, I'm not an expert on this case. I can fully admit I haven't looked into it as much.

as others. I believe they did like Gagger countertests and they did find trace amounts of radiation higher than normal on the back of the car. She does that with the compass in the movie. Yes, that too. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. She has one of my favorite lines,

which is my sister said the compass is basically like a Gagermeter. Because you know, you just kind of, you talk about those things with your siblings. Yeah, I think it was a sister. I could be misquoting that, but it was just kind of so funny to me. I was like, Somebody casually told you that a compass works like a guy. Hey, okay, zombie saint.

Look, look, look, look. We got a time. We got a time. We got a time. We got a time. We got a time. 1219. Thank you, Grant. Grant.

Thank you, Grant. Wow. Well, no, it's 12. It's like noon. Or noon. Oh, there we go. Come on. Yeah, no, Ryan.

Australia is three hours or two hours ahead. What do you do? My math is horrible. I'm sorry, guys. It's getting late over here on the East Coast here. Thank you, Grant. He says the guy would not twins and, you know, has to be up in the morning to work. All the matters right now is Grant is my favorite Australian and I've met Hugh Jackman.

So I did too. I actually met him two weeks ago. I'm working at Music Man on Broadway. He's doing the same thing. He hands out lottery tickets to employees at the theater. Yep. On Fridays? Sundays now.

Sunday's amazing. What a cool dude. What a cool dude. He is an awesome dude. Wow, we got off track there. I don't remember where we were. I'm just so happy to know what time it is in Australia. Yeah, the biggest mystery of this episode has been solved.

We're done. Good night, everybody. Good night. Let's, I guess, Andrew, because again, man, I don't want to keep you too long again. Oh, no, no, no. So I let me see if I have any. Yeah, what questions do you have? I guess so we know.

that he died of a stroke. And she mentions a stroke earlier on in the movie, but the line kind of like went over my head. Is there, was there ever an implication that she predicted his death? I don't believe so, but we do see in the film, uh, that Barney Hill is constantly thinking about his mortality. Yeah. Again, is this, this has to do with he was depressed after this event happened. He had these thoughts of like a nuclear fallout from the Cold War happening. He thinks, thinks he's going to have a stroke because it runs in the family. And he, as we find out at the end of the film, was right. He died at the age of 46, unfortunately, of a stroke. Died in 1969. And then, I mean, look at this portrait of Betty. I mean, 85 years old she lived too.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Moking that cigarette, dying of lung cancer, which she would eventually die of, yeah, in 2004. It is. It is. But I mean, dude, until her dying day, she stuck to this story, which is interesting. It's interesting. But yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. I guess I don't have as many questions as I thought. Like the tapes kind of make me feel one way, but I also like, you know, people, was there anything? Was there anybody in particular that publicly like came out to rebut this? Anybody of that time? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Now, you have Carl Sagan famously tried to debunk the star map at one point. I believe that's something people would have to look up on YouTube. He sort of added an explanation for that. But also, there was another famous skeptic at the time named Philip Klass, who didn't believe any UFO sightings were legitimate and everyone was crazy and coops and stuff like that.

So he obviously would hop to these abduction cases and be like, See, these are the psychopaths or these are the crazy people making this stuff up. Right. But yeah, there was a lot of detractors, as there should be. But one thing I do want to mention, actually, I totally forgot about this. And we got a small part of it in the movie, Benjamin Simon, the psychiatrist, he meets, this is hilarious. He's at like a beach with a dude in full uniform. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, I loved that scene. That was great. He was like, well, I need some information. was good, but it was just kind of, it was, you're right. It's like, I call my old buddy from the high-ranking member of the Air Force to just tell me if this could have possibly been a UFO. I like, yeah, I like seeing the psychiatrist like kind of do his due diligence. I was like, you know, and you mention this, this film is not out to convince you this happened and this was a agent. They actually did the opposite, which I really, yeah, it was really refreshing because there's even, even with the

way that they present it, which I do think has a heavy bias towards it being some sort of, sort of hallucination or something. They are still, they, the things that they are presenting are still terrifying and they are still like, you know, you want to believe, because of Stell Parsons is a wonderful actor,

you do want to believe this woman. Like that's, as I think can be the hard thing with a lot of this kind of stuff. You want to believe them. Exactly. As the famous X-Files poster says. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So here's a question for,

were there because I thought the book was an interesting detail but then now that I'm thinking about it maybe it's not as like unique as I took it as but were there if this was the first where they're like copycats were there people who like basically kind of said like almost the same thing happened to them wow what a great question um yeah I mean this again this was like the OG story so you start hearing after this happens and this comes forward dozens and dozens of people claiming the same thing. We saw the same beings.

The same thing happened. We were kidnapped and brought on the craft. So again, chicken and egg scenario. Are these people telling the truth? Or who was inspired by what? And we should, I should mention Andrew.

And, you know, this is going to piss a lot of people off. But Betty Hill did have a history of being interested in UFOs prior to this incident. What? What?

what oh that blows the hole that i had to put you full screen for that of course she knows how to draw a friggin star map then what how well i wouldn't go like well okay so how how i can't draw an effin star map and i've been studying you and whose fault is that ryan um my parents doug sprague was in the chat didn't sign me up for um star map 101 no work ethic. If it was 1961, you would have been drawn Star Maps all over the place. So we have to

acknowledge that. She did have an interest in it. I would say, I would need more detail in that. Otherwise, I would strike it. That is something I would need to know, like, look, anybody could be interested in something. But is this something that, like,

that being said, my threshold is very low. Like, if she's read, like, one book, everything is disqualified. I understand that. Again, like, but at the same time, I'm just playing devil's advocate. Like, you can have an interest in this topic and still have a legitimate experience. A lot of people could argue that, too. Absolutely.

And I would, I would, I would help. It does not help the situation. It doesn't. And I would almost, I would be sooner to dismiss it now than I would then. And I, the reason I would say that is because now, I feel like it is more our pop culture has been more saturated with UFO stories and UFO things like

it's harder to not Doug but it's harder to not know what a UFO is at this point so I would almost like that's where I would have to be like there you go fair Robert that's fair Robert

also sorry Andrew I just wanted to say thank you to Mark for the sticker man. He's a huge supporter of the show. Oh, thanks, Mark. Oh, thanks, Mark. So, oh, shoot. I totally lost my train of thought there.

Just this, this, you know, kind of preconceived. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, so, yeah. So I think, I think, but I think back then, especially for it being them to be so few and far between, it's almost like, oh, I'm going to break new ground here. Like, we're going to get attention this way. Well, no, and I'm sorry.

I don't, because I don't want to say that because I do think these people went through something genuinely horrible. I do really believe that something bad happened to them. Yeah. I just don't think it was UFO related. But I do believe that something, like, for what it's worth, I do believe they went through something horrific. Totally understandable. Oh, is that on the actual highway where it happened? Yes, that's where it happened.

They have this marker there that you can go see. They're very proud of this event, as many small towns are of UFO events. You know, Roswell has a festival every year. Flatwoods Monster in West Virginia, Hopkinsville Goblins, which I think you and I talked about at one point. They've got like a little marker for that. This can make it down these events. Of course they're going to embrace it.

You know, if it brings people in and brings, tourists in all the power to them. I think it's it's great to do something like that. A lot of people think it's exploitation, but hey, you know, we live in a capitalist society. That's all we're saying. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Let's see. Grays are not chill. Someone said, yeah, they are not. They are scary. Grays are suss, if anything. I love this. Steven says, if I get abducted when I wake up, I'm going to say, I'm from Detroit. right, give me the keys and no one gets hurt. Going to land the ship on Ryan's lawn.

Steven, thanks, man. Good luck finding a lawn in New York City. Yeah, yeah. Queens, you might have a little bit more luck. Not as much as you would think, but yeah, let's see. What is this coming here? Skinwalker Ranch dressing. I really want to see a parody of people being interviewed and looking crazy for

regular daily experiences. He was outside my house touching things. Insert blurry photo of guy turning off the guess. Like Skinwalker Ranch dressing just as, One pro tip. When you get to pitch that hot, man, you keep it to yourself. You don't put that. You don't put that.

You go make that. You go make that. You're talking to two writers here. Our job is to steal. Ryan is not speaking for me on that one. Oh, no. No. No.

I'm just kidding. It is not. It's not, guys. We don't steal. We borrow. And we are inspired by. What else do I have here? Oh.

I met Kathleen Martin at a UFO event, actually. Yeah, I got a little photo of me here with her and Dr. Lin Kittai as well. She's another woman in the UFO field who saw the Phoenix Lights incident, Andrew. I don't know if you're familiar with that case back in 1997 or 96. One of those two years, 97, I believe. She took some crazy video of a huge UFO event that happened that thousands of people saw. But yeah, I got to meet Kathleen Martin and talk to her all about her aunt and uncle in this case. And look, man, she believes it.

She, of course, sticks by her family and has done a lot of investigation. So all the power to her. Yeah, no, there's some very noble about that. I can't like, you know. Yeah. Can't be mad at it. Absolutely. Absolutely.

I think really the only thing left to talk about, I guess, would be Project Blue Book. the official U.S. Air Force investigation unit did look into this case. Interesting. Yeah, I think that's what that's seen in the movie kind of represented. Sure. The one where the Air Force guy on the beach, where was that, talking to his buddy, Benjamin Simon, that, yes, the Air Force does look into UFOs and there's a 5% that we can't explain and that we need to look further into. And this guy even says, we looked at the Betty and Barney Hill thing and we can't explain it. We can't come up with a conventional explanation.

But what I found really interesting, this was not in the movie. The U.S. Air Force did track a UFO on radar the same night that this event happened in the same exact location where they said this event happened. That's a mic drop, I think, in terms of convincing evidence that something happened. there was at least a UFO there. And we have to remember. Betty and Barney Hill only remembered having seen something in the sky. I think somebody said, and I think somebody said on the chat, they remember the abduction, but not the UFO,

or like being on the UFO, but not like seeing it or anything like that. I think it was actually the opposite. They did remember seeing the UFO. They did not remember the abductions and so after hypnosis. Sure. I'm wrong. No, I said maybe I probably read it. wrong then. Oh, okay. I don't. Someone correct us

someone correct us in the chat. But either way, either way, there was a I think that's, that's, that's, that's, hmm. And again, like, did Penny and Honey Hill somehow know about that? And then they were like, oh, we can use this to our advantage to create this, you know, concoct this story. There was a UFO, there's documentation. I don't know. Or and allow me to play devil's

advocate to my side a little bit right now. When did the Air Force reveal that they spotted a UFO that night? I don't know. I don't know. I apologize. No, it's okay. It's okay. I would just love to know when that happened.

Because if I was a government agency that was trying to keep people focused on stuff like that, corroborating a story like that, now and then might keep people invested and keep it. Because it's like, they're not saying, they didn't say anything directly. They don't have to claim, like, responsibility for it or anything. It's almost like the perfect kind of like,

uh, tugging along like or like a little poke. Just like, oh, what a coincidence. Like they had this very part that was publicized and we just happen to, uh, I don't know, I think we may or may not have just absolutely spotted a UFO.

in that same area that same night. That's crazy. Like, I don't know, moving on. Like, I just, yeah. It could have been Russian. Could have been a Russian spy satellite. Could have been a top secret U.S. aircraft. And when they heard that this interracial couple was going around telling people they were kidnapped by aliens,

there's your cover story right there. That's going to keep people thinking all that stuff. And meanwhile, you know, look this way while we do this. on the other. I don't know. That's, that's interesting. I didn't think about that. It's also one of those things where I just, I'm trying to, I want to make sure I have this date. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Just to make it like very clear, like how fraught it was to be in an interracial marriage in 1961, the Loving V. Virginia case hadn't even happened yet. like that's not until

1967 so interracial marriage was still like essentially outlawed in a lot of places. So like it's just not yeah so it's just not not great, not great. Yeah. So, but anyway, but again,

that UFO stuff is mighty, that's a mighty big that's a lot. Yeah. I again, like there is some interesting evidence to this case and a lot of people still turn to it as one of the most documented and credible cases. But there's a lot working against it too.

I mean, like you said, a lot of what this sounds like was some sort of probably racially ignited assault on both of them in some way, shape, or form. You know, being dragged around scuff marks on Barney's clothes, rip dress on Betty. like, you know, in not wanting to remember and this and that, like, it makes sense. It does. I'm not saying that's what happened. I don't want people to think, you know, that I'm immediately discounting this entire event. But these are the conversations that need to be had when it comes to something like this.

And one, I think the movie actually approached in a very, a very smart way. I really respect them for doing that. I will say, I've been on the show quite a few times. I don't think we've gotten, at least with me, too nitty-gritty into, like, certain real cases or anything like that, aside from things based on movies here and there. This is one of, and I've known you for at least 10 years at this point now, I think. This is one of those cases. This is one of the first ones where I'm just like, you know what? I don't really have an answer either way.

Yeah. I know what I believe, but I don't. You know, it's pretty wild. It's something that it's like really interesting. And especially like the, like, I don't know, this is one of those first times where I'm like, At first I didn't think it was real. I woke up to this blinding light and I was transported to another place. Pluto TV.

Then I heard a voice. Come with me if you want to live. There were thousands of movies and shows and they were all free. The truth is ours. It's just so beautiful. on Pluto TV free streaming of Terminator 2, Fringe Arrow, the 100 NX files may cause excitement, loss of sleep, and sudden belief in extraterrestrials. No credit cards or alien encounters necessary. Pluto TV, stream now, pay never.

Yeah, good. That's all I could ask of you, man, is to keep an open mind. I love having you on the show because you are willing to hear me out and willing to hear what people see and experience and think maybe. maybe it's possible. We have to look at all the other explanations first. Yeah, and at the very least, even if I don't think that something was possible, I get like a,

there's often a lot of very human emotional stories attached to these things. That's why one of the many things that I love about your perspective, and that's one of the reasons that I like your work and like your investigations into these type of phenomena, is that you look for, you're going for a human perspective. I said at the top, too. Like, it's just, that's, that's the interesting part to me.

And that I think what I love, and what I love about this particular story is we still have that human aspect. And that makes me not more susceptible to, like, the UFOs, but like it makes me, like I said, I think I put, it makes me want to believe them a little bit more. Yeah. Right. So. I, I completely understand that. Again, I think, you know, this movie did such a good job of. humanizing these characters. And that really has to do with the actors.

They, these were for a TV movie, these were top-notch performances. They did their homework. They invested all of themselves into doing this accurately for the real Betty and Barney Hill. No matter what James Earl Jones or Estelle Parsons think of the case, they went into this movie saying, we need to tell the story according to what they believe. and that's your job as an actor. Like you are that person. You're not, you know, you're, you're faking it, but you're not faking it.

You truly believe this happened to you. So you've got to go into it that way. And I just think they did, God, such an incredible job. I have to really praise the director, the writers, and the actors on this. This is, this was my first time seeing the movie, actually, you know,

having never watched it before. As soon as I thought about it, I was like, I got to get Andrew in on this. I got to see what he thinks of this. A is a movie and B as a credible UFO case. Credible being a very flexible word. Hey, no, look, again, I was, I think this is.

I would recommend this movie. I would recommend this case. I think there's just a lot. There's a lot to it that I think is really interesting. Yeah, we only unpacked a short amount of it. But listen, my man, we're going to wrap things up very shortly. Now I have become death, said, Andrew, If there's a case you really want to look into,

it's the aerial school incident. I'm actually, Andrew, I'm going to have the director of this new documentary coming on the show in a couple weeks. This was a case in Rua, Zimbabwe in 94, where 62 school children witnessed a UFO land on their school ground. Beings come out and try to communicate with the children, get back in their craft, disappear. I've spoken to several of the witnesses to this event.

as adults, they stick to this story. It's incredible. And we're finally, after like a decade of waiting for this documentary to come out, we're finally getting it in the next week or so. So I would love to have you watch that and come back on and talk about that. But again, like, there's so many cases out there that people don't know about that don't really think about the UFO topic, that I really just want to be like, look at this and tell me something. didn't happen.

Something. And I think that's true about the Betty and Barney Hill case as well. Well, hey, my man, before we go, I have to ask you, as a screenwriter, is there anything you can tease

about projects you're working on or maybe a little, little movie that someone is having made? I don't know if that's public yet. But yeah, I have a short film that will hopefully be dropping this year called Pay the Tithe, which is a horror short

that I'm very excited about that I was, we're heavy into post-production right now. I got to hear some of the first bits of the score yesterday, which was done by a good friend of Ryan and I. And I'm very, very excited. I'm excited for everybody to see it.

I'm excited for, yeah, just all the work. Anybody I have had involved on the short so far has just brought every bit of themselves and every bit of their A game to it and just so much passion and hard work and creativity and it's just it's going to make it even better than I could have imagined. So it's very exciting.

And I wrote and directed it. So it's just a nice little Apache project. Amazing. I did get to see a rough cut. And man, I'm not just saying it because you're my friend and my colleague, but I was blown away by what I saw. So I can't wait to see the final product.

We'll have to get you back on to talk about it Because it dives into some of the realms we cover here on the show. A little bit of supernatural, maybe. Cult of personality kind of stuff. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So we will definitely talk about that. Awesome. Ooh, yes.

Now I Become Death says, sounds interesting being a fan of horror. So you've got a new fan. Hey, thanks, man. You can follow me on the tweeters at Sanford minus Sun. right underneath there. Also, the Instagram is half white son of a black man. Which was the name of a piet for a while.

So if you want to, I also, if anybody, Ryan was on that quite a few times on that podcast, and several of the times were to come on and talk about horror movies with me. So if you want to hear me and Ryan, I think there are,

there's a, you could fill up a solid 24 hours. If you went and found all the times, Ryan and I have talked about movies via podcasts. We should. We should do a megasode where we just put them all together. That'd be pretty fun. No, that was such a fun time. So definitely I suggest people go check out Half White Center of a Black Man archives. Shocktober. Shocktober.

You can listen to the other stuff, too, but if you're looking for the movie conversations. Yeah. It's on Stitcher, too, which I always have. And I only say that because if you have Stitcher, they have a really good search engine. So you can find easy to find stuff. Yeah. For sure, man. God bless Stitcher. I'm glad they're still going strong in the age of Spotify.

They get my money. Stitcher gets my money. They're great. They're great. And they host our show as well. So thank you. That's where I get the show. Somewhere in the Stitcher.

Love it. All right, my man. Well, hey, I'm going to let you go. I'm going to talk shop a little bit with the crowd here. But I do want to thank you for taking time out of your crazy, hectic life, both as an artist and as, as a father and a husband. I love you, bud.

I'll talk to you soon. I love you too, my man. We will talk soon. Have a great night. Thank you, everybody, for coming and joining it and listening fun stuff. You. There he is, guys.

Andrew Sanford, one of my best friends here in New York City. We've seen and done a lot of things, and it's so amazing that we can still connect in our adult lives and do stuff like this. The podcast is just an excuse to catch up with my book. here in New York. So thank you to Andrew for taking time to do that tonight. We really appreciate it. My best to your family, Douglas Francis. Stephen says thank you for the review. Thank you. Thank you guys for checking this out tonight. If you haven't, you can watch the UFO incident from

1975 right on YouTube. Just type in the UFO incident, 1975, and it should pop up. I know that's how Andrew and I watched it. And let us know what you think. Put your comments below on this video about what you thought of the movie, what you thought they did a good job with, maybe not so much with. And yeah, what you think of the Betty and Barney Hill case? Now, I know we touched on some controversial aspects tonight, you know, the idea that maybe this isn't all it seems to be or appears to be. But, hey, it's an open case as every UFO case usually is.

So, yeah, I'm glad we got to dissect that tonight. I'm glad that you guys got to hang out with us and do that. But before we go, I do want to talk a little about this. This was a comic book called Blue Book, based on the project Blue Book, files and other UFO incidents. And we actually had Michael Oiming, the artist of this comic book about the Betty and Barney Hill incident on the show. So if you go back into the archives, you should be able to find that episode with Michael Oiming, where we talk all about the Betty and Barney Hill incident and what inspired him to make this comic. book series with a few other friends and colleagues of his, and you can find it at readblubook.com.

The entire Betty and Barney Hill volume is done and out to the public. So go to readblubbook.com. It's a gorgeous, gorgeous comic book. And I know I just talked to Michael. They're working on the next case. And they actually reached out to me to help consult on the next volume. so I'm super excited and honored about that too. But yeah, definitely check out this comic.

They did such an incredible job with researching it and really conveying what Betty and Barney Hill went through, just like the movie the UFO incident did as well. Mick Gray says, you kick in in NYC, bra? Yes, I live in NYC, actually. So, yeah, that's how Andrew and I met here in New York City in the theater world, and we've just, you know, just become such good friends since then,

so much that he comes on this show. as a skeptic and takes everyone's hit. So I love them for that as well. Um, comics are dope. I agree. I agree. I agree. Please, if you haven't, rate and review the show wherever you get podcasts. I know Spotify now has a rating system so you can rate it on there. Apple Podcasts is still the biggest platform to, um, find podcasts and, um, support independent podcasters like myself. So please go to Apple and give it a five-star rating, a review, Or give it an honest rating and review. I don't care.

But yeah, please just head on over to one of those avenues and do that. It truly, truly does help the show. Other than that, let me see what we have here in the chat before we get out of here. Mark says, forgot to mention how much I like my TikTok attack and foo fighter shirts I ordered from your store. Thanks, Mark. Thanks, my man. So, yeah, I got some really, really cool designs in the store.

I think I just released a new one actually maybe a week or so ago so you can check that out as well it's a really cool blacked out document redacted document as many of the UFO documents are that come out of the government

so yeah you can check that out in the store now we have sales all the time so yeah you can check those out I think T-shirts are usually 35% off when when the sales do happen so go to tpublic.com you can check out all

merch and help support the show in style. Let's see. Oh, Mark says, and your coffee blend. Mark, you're like my publicist, man. You're, you're, you're, you're reping all of my merch tonight. Yes, I do have a coffee as well, the somewhere in the sky's coffee, which is available through black triangle coffee.com. So go check them out as well. Amazing roaster out of Arizona. And yeah, let me know what you think of the somewhere in the sky's coffee. That's all I got. So thank you. Thank you for joining us tonight to explore the Betty and Barney Hill incident. We will go into it further in depth in the future, maybe do a full, full episode on it. And finally, just cover this case in the way it truly deserves.

But again, thank you to our guest, Andrew Sanford, for tonight. Thank you to all of you for being here. And with that, keep your feet on the ground, but never stop searching. Somewhere in the Skies. Somewhere in the Skies is produced by Third Kind Productions, in association with the Enterdict. One podcast network. Lots of places can expose you to identity theft.

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