Somewhere in the Skies - BONUS EPISODE: Movie Review Edition: The Last Jedi

Episode Date: December 21, 2017

On episode 03 of the SOMEWHERE IN THE SKIES Bonus Movie Review Edition, Ryan sits down once again with Nick Westemeyer and Chris Moss, hosts of the 2 Dumb Dads Podcast. This time, they are reviewing the latest installment in the Disney/Lucasfilm franchise, STAR WARS: THE LAST JEDI. As an obsessive die-hard Star Wars fan, Ryan tackles this polarizing film with Nick and Chris as they discuss the shift in tone of the Star Wars universe, who lived... who died... and just exactly who the last Jedi truly is... or isn't! May the Force Be With You!  Follow the 2 Dumb Dads Podcast on Twitter @2_Dumb_Dads You can also follow the show on Facebook at: www.facebook.com/2dumbdads Patreon: www.patreon.com/somewhereskies Official Store: CLICK HERE Website: www.somewhereintheskies.com Order Ryan's Book by CLICKING HERE Twitter: @SomewhereSkies Instagram: @SomewhereSkiesPod Opening Theme Song, "Ephemeral Reign" by Per Kiilstofte SOMEWHERE IN THE SKIES is produced by Third Kind Productions, in association with eOne Entertainment. Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/somewhere-in-the-skies. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Thanks, yours too. What does RAV stand for anyway? To me, it's the remarkably advanced vehicle. Really? To me, it's the runway approved vehicle for its amazing style. What about remarkably adaptable vehicle because of its versatile cargo space? Or really admired vehicle? Oh, or really awesome vehicle. It really is the recreational activity vehicle.

The stylish 2026 Toyota Rav4 Limited. What's your Rav4? Hey guys, before we get to this week's show, I wanted to remind you that in this holiday season, we can't forget those less fortunate than us. And here at Summer in the Skies, I am running an event I did last year as well. For anyone who purchases merchandise from the official Somewhere in the Sky's store, or purchases my book, Summer in the Skies, a human approach to an alien phenomenon, 25% of the proceeds will be donated to the Women's Refugee Commission.

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Permission to jump in her next one and close something up. Permission, granted. Of course, be with you. Hey, watch the language. Hey, guys, Ryan Sprague here. Happy holidays to everybody. Here is my gift to you, so I hope you enjoy it. Hey, it's better than a Starbucks gift card, right?

Welcome to episode three of the Somewhere in the Sky's movie review edition. Today, I'm sitting down once again with the hosts of the Two Dumb Dads podcast, Nick Westmeyer and Chris Moss. We are going to discuss the number one box office hit right now, Star Wars, The Last Jedi. What crazy twists did they pull on us this time? Who is the force most strong with? Who lived? Who died? And what is up with those damn porks? This was one of the most fun discussions I've ever had

about one of the most amazing franchises to ever grace my heart and my childhood. So I hope you enjoy as much as I did making it. If you have seen the movie, enjoy our take on it. And if not, many, many spoilers ahead. You've been warned. Enjoy the show, and may the Force be with you. All right, guys, welcome to another bonus movie review edition of Somewhere in the Skies. Today, we are going to be talking about Star Wars, The Last Jedi, with me again.

I've got Nick Westemeyer, Chris Moss, gentlemen. How are you doing? Hey, doing great. You've been good. Yes. Now, I know Nick, you and I. I saw this opening night. Chris, you went to a screening this morning at 9 a.m. East Coast time. That is dedication, my friend. Yeah, the way I see it, I was mostly awake that let me bring my coffee in.

I didn't take my notes this time, so I'm noteless. But hey, I saw it. I got it in. Awesome. Chris is like he's breaking free from his, his, uh, he's trying to branch out to not having notes. It took a rebirth for him right now. Off the cuff, baby. I love it, love it. There's no better way to do things like this for sure. know just like the last time we did this guys, we are very passionate about this franchise as well. So I want to know, before we even get into The Last Jedi, how did Star Wars come into each of your lives? I want to hear from you guys first. What was your first memory of Star Wars? Mine's a weird, like, it's not, mine definitely is not as, like, succinct as the comic book

answer, but it kind of blends into, like, my whole geekhood growing up. So we, it was just kind of played at our house. Like, it would be on. So if it was on, we would watch it. But the funny thing is, is I don't ever remember, like, I remember seeing Return of the Jedi a bunch. Like, that's the movie that stuck in my head, like, is the one I remembered. And then so, do you guys remember when they released the box sets, like, the first big box set release? Yes, yeah, yeah. So I remember begging to get that. Because I was like, I've never seen New Hope.

Why have I never seen the first Star Wars movie? So it's funny that for me, like, that's really when, like, Star Wars became a big thing, is I got, like, a Star Wars video. Every time I got a good grade on a report card, I got, like, one of the special. released. What? You bastard. I got like a dollar from my grandpa. No, no.

I got like a videotape. Listen, so, but I remember getting them and watched him and just being like blown away by how great the story was as a whole because I couldn't remember Empire or New Hope. I just remembered Jedi. And so then after that, when they re-released the movies in the theater with all the added stuff, that was kind of when I totally got into it because I was a sucker for like new shit. And I guess from that point, like, I've been hooked, but I've always been in kind of that, like, George Lucas, Indiana Jones, Star Wars, type world.

So, while my geekdom may not go as far as it did with the comic books, it's just been something that I've just loved watching it. As I've gotten older, my love of it has grown exponentially. As I realize just how great it is in terms of super dramatic storytelling, right? Like the space fairy tale, essentially. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. I'm in a similar boat there. I was never the super Star Wars fan, and my parents weren't nerdy people.

But for me, it was one of those things that I saw on TV, and whenever it was on, I would just get sucked into it. Like some of my earliest members of cinema were just sitting around watching the Darth Vader-Luc Skywalker fight in Return of the Jedi and just thinking, wow, this is the coolest thing ever. And I don't think it was until much later in my life that I actually sat down. and watched every one of them from the beginning. I don't think I had seen those early scenes on Hoth with Luke until I was probably in my late teens, early 20s. But now it's one of those things where I've bought all of the box sets, even the awful, terrible Blu-ray collection

with the most updated Lucas revisions. I know, I know, I did it. I still say Hansatz first, but you know. Listen, I like the updated ones. That make me a bad person? Yes. Okay, well, I do.

Objectively, yes. Yeah, I'm sorry, Nick. You're alone on that one, buddy. Can I say, like, talking about this? I realized that my first, probably real introduction to Star Wars was the EWox movies, and, like, not realizing EWox or Parstores, but just realizing, like, the EWX, like, I just remember I had a VHS of EWX, and they were awesome. That's so my introduction.

You know what? That's a good point, though, Nick. I mean, for both of you, Return of the Jedi was your first sort of experience and or the Ewarks. And whenever you bring up Star Wars to people, they always say, oh, the little bears. And it's like, yeah, that's kind of the iconic, I would say of the three, the most iconic movie, because probably it was the last, you know, a lot of the most famous stuff came from that one. I totally get it. That makes perfect sense.

What I think is also interesting is, you know, seeing Jedi last and then going back and watching the others, This franchise, this story, I guess, that George Lucas had, what's really interesting is that he drops you into the world, like, mid-battle, every, at least with the first three, you know, like, it's very episodic. They're called episodes when you watch these, so you don't have to have known what happened at the very beginning and then, you know, what got us to this point. Which I thought was always really interesting. I also like going back and re-watching the films before seeing this one, especially dropping into New Hope, how much you're just, you're as a moviegoer, as an audience, you're just reticent to be like, oh, yeah, okay, great. Like, this is what's going on.

And it's funny because I felt kind of like that with Last Jedi 2 in a sense, which I'm sure we'll get to, and Force Awakens. You're just kind of like, okay, great. So this is where we're at, and this is what's going on. And yeah, and I guess we'll really get into the last Jedi, be like, okay, so shit's happened, but this is where I'm at right now. This is the story that's going on. I'm going to get expedition about the past, but in some ways it doesn't matter.

Yeah. So I actually have a question for you all. On this topic of kind of just being able to jump into the movies being episodic of their nature and all, when did you actually start understanding the Star Wars scroll? In terms of like the story they were telling? So when I was a kid, I read the scroll. I remember knowing the scroll and it was this iconic thing that took place. And as a kid, for me, it was just this little boring.

thing that happened before the awesome stuff came on. I see. But I think the last probably four or five times, I've started reading it and actually understanding. And it's amazing how intricate and the stories become, which are actually paying attention to the background. Yeah. So I never paid attention to them.

I'm with you. I wanted that first, like, you know, when the scroll disappears and they always drop down to either a planet, a star show, something like that. that. I just wanted, I wanted to see the action. So yeah, I think it wasn't until probably much later when I got those Blu-rays that I actually paid attention. And I was like, whoa, this is way more intricate than I thought of. Like, you know, especially those, the prequels. Right. Those scrolls. There was a little part of you that just sat there and went, wait, this is all about

trade politics? What? So, yeah, I think for me, I never really paid attention to him. And I think that's a good thing in terms of the story they're telling. Even, you know, George Lucas is clearly not the best writer. But even without those scrolls, like, you totally got the entire feeling and story, I think. Yeah, I think I probably hooked into them when the prequels came out, because that's when I got past the wanting to just get to the action, actually have a better understanding about what the stories were. And I think I was still young enough as a movie gore that I still thought the prequels were good.

Does that make sense? They have their merit and they have their place and I still really enjoy aspects of them. Like, I'll go back and we watch them and have fun. But now as I'm older, I'm like, oh, shit. I mean, look, getting to see Yoda jump around and do stuff was really cool. I mean, that was one of those things that as a kid you always wanted to see. And then they did it. And we can debate whether or not it was worthwhile, but they did it.

And that was cool. Absolutely. Thank you for bringing that up because I'm going to bring that up later on when we deal with. One Master Skywalker. Yeah. Before we go any further, guys, I do have to share my first memory. So I switched to public school when I was in middle school from, I was going to Catholic school, got kicked out.

Long story. So when I switched over to public school, I didn't have many friends. So I had that applicatory moment of like being in the lunchroom the first day and not knowing where to sit. And I remember distinctly there were these three dudes, I guess, boys at that time. And they told me I could sit with them. And they were playing this card game. And I thought it was like magic, the gathering. I thought that's what it was. But when I like sat down, I saw that it was actually Star Wars themed. And at that time, I'd never seen Star Wars. I had

never heard of it. And this dude, he had the trilogy on VHS, that original trilogy we're talking about. And he let me bring him home. And I watched him straight through in one sitting. I was absolutely hooked and I became obsessed after that. Besides UFOs, this is by far one of the biggest things and closest things to my heart. And I even wrote a fan fiction novel. I'm not kidding. Oh, that's amazing. Oh, can I please read that? I will give anything to get my hands on. You need to make that something for your Patreon members. Yeah. So here's the thing about that, guys. As much as I would love to. So in my novel, I created a Jedi named Kreech-Clusion. I have no idea why.

That was his name. He was hunting the bounty hunter who killed his parents, which essentially became Boba Fett. And what happened was when I was going to turn it into my English teacher at the time, a bully in school stole the only copy I had because this was before the word processor. I typed this thing out on an electric typewriter. Oh, my God. It was, he took it, he ripped it up, and he threw it out. Oh, no.

And it was the worst moment of my middle school life. He apologized many, many years later. He found me on Facebook. And he said, dude, there is no, like, I don't know what the hell was wrong. He was a kid, you know. Right, sure. He apologized, and he's like, I can't believe I would do something like that. But, you know, the cut was deep at that point.

So we may never know the conclusion to what happened to creesh collusion unfortunately. But yeah, that was my first memory, was the card game of Star Wars introduced me to the movies, and then I was hooked after that, everything. My entire apartment was filled with Star Wars.

To this day, I still have a life-sized Yoda cutout stored safely in my parents' attic. So, yeah, this franchise has just meant everything to me. I am a die-hard fan, not to the annoying point, which we will get to, But yeah, this new trilogy just speaks volumes to me.

I love where they're going, as we will get into. So I guess getting into that, here is the brief description of this movie, which when we actually get into the plot isn't so brief, but here we go. Ray develops her newly discovered abilities with the guidance of Luke Skywalker, who is unsettled by the strength of her powers. Meanwhile, the resistance prepares to do battle with the First Order. That's all. That's all Wikipedia gave us. That's crazy. You know, that's really not that far off.

It's not. When you really think about it, yeah. It's completely off. Let me see. What's the line? It's amazing how none of those things you said were true. Yes. You think so? I do. I mean, I think it's hard to say that Ray developed her abilities with the guidance of Luke Skywalker. She had two lessons, dude. She had two lessons. So presumably eventually she's getting the third. By the way, we're spoiling this, right?

Oh, God, yeah. I am so sorry. Ladies and gentlemen, anyone listening from here on out, spoilers, galore, you've been warned. So, I mean, okay, presumably we're going to get that third lesson somewhere, somehow. He's going to do the spirit thing, but, um... Oh, you...

Okay. Obviously. Oh, I don't. But we'll get to that. I don't. One of my big beefs. Oh, no. Because they already did the spirit thing.

They already did the spirit thing. There's a line that makes me think that he isn't going to be back. Well, we'll get to that. Let's, um... Yeah. So there is some extremely surprising moments in this movie. So, first of all, okay, so far, this movie has grossed almost 500 million worldwide. Amazing.

Secondly, we have the writer and director, is it Rianne or Ryan? I don't know. I thought it was Rain. Rain? Like, like the dude from... I see we all take a different. pronunciation. Written it directed by Ryan Rianne

Johnson, who did Brick and Looper. So, what the hell? I'm really interested in why they chose this guy to continue the Star Wars trilogy. This is not the last we're going to be hearing from him. He's going to be writing and directing more from what I've been

Well, a whole new trilogy, isn't it? An entire new Yes. Story, three set story? Yep. And we'll get to that at the end as well, for sure, Nick. So, yeah, we've got this guy who's done some pretty low, I would say, low budget sort of indie films. Looper was a little bit more mainstream, obviously.

But, wow, to put this into his hands was very interesting. So right at the beginning, we have this moment where General Hux, our red-headed friend and Poe, Damarin, this movie starts right after Force Awakens, like the next scene. which is really interesting. This seems to be a running theme with all the new movies. It's starting them right after. So they have this banter, which was really comedic.

You know, this, sorry, I can't hear you. Can you please hold? Sorry, sorry. Really set the tone, I think, for what we were going to see throughout the rest of this movie. There were some extremely interesting choices that he made in telling this story

and things that I think a lot of die-hard Star War fans were either okay with or very against. I can put, well, it's funny. I saw a great quote that said, if you dig the first five to ten minutes of that film, basically that conversation, right, between Hux and Po, you will like the rest of the movie. If you get into that first moment and you're like, oh, fuck this, then you're probably

not going to dig what's going to come later on. Because it is. Like you said, it sets the tone for damn your, everything that happens. I mean, the first moment with Luke and Ray is in that same kind of vein, right? Yeah. Yeah. Nick, can you describe? that scene with us? Yeah. So, you know, you have this, you have this banter of, you know, Poe and

Huxnet. It splits to that moment, like, this iconic moment that we've been waiting two years to see. That we saw at the end of Force Awakens, right? Yeah. Yeah. So we've been waiting, we've been waiting two years to see what's going to happen when Ray hands Luke the lightsaber. And, like, in a beat, he, like, touches it, looks at it, and fucking flips it over his shoulder and walks away. Yeah. And I just remember being like, what, I mean, it was such a moment of like, okay, I both, well, I both appreciated it and was like, this is not going to be what I thought it was going to be. And I kind of, so for me, as a viewer, I was like, well, it looks like I'm going to go along

with this ride and, and I'm either going to, I'm either going to love it or I'm not. And so I kind of went with like, I'm going to go with it. And that helped. But that first moment of Hux and Poe and Luke and Ray tells you everything you need to know about this movie is going to be. I was just going to say, it's basically going to take everything you thought you like, new tonally for these movies and sort of flip it on its end. We thought this was going to be an extremely dark film.

Everyone was saying it's the next Empire Strikes Back, which is an extremely depressing movie. And here we are, like two scenes into this new one. And he's just like quips left and right. Yeah, it's a very different feel for a Star Wars film. And I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing. I think it's just the way the times have taken us. I think you can argue that part of the problem with the prequels was that they didn't update themselves.

They tried to stick too much to the old 1970s, 1980s style of storytelling, but using modern, somewhat modern, I guess, technology. Yeah. And this film decided to... No, absolutely. I mean, it doesn't hold up because, you know, whatever. Computer graphics just don't do that. But this film, at least, definitely tried to update itself. And I think it did it in a charming way, which maintain a lot of the elements of the early films

while also acknowledging, like, look, this is what humor is now. This is what humor is in film. You're either going to go with us or you're not. And we think we're going to make the money either way. Good point, Chris. And the key word I think is charming. This movie charmed the hell out of me. I don't know about you guys.

Well, no, you know, it's funny because I think so, And I think we'll continue to get into it more and more. I had a really good conversation with someone about it who did not like the film, who was completely just like... I get it. I think my comment to them was, you like Justice League, but you didn't like this. In terms of storytelling, I think Chris is right.

Like, it's totally updated and it's quippy and it's fun, and it feels very Disney, dare I say. Like, oh, Disney definitely got its hand on it. And I think that's why they might have picked the director to take the series in a different direction to not have it be Empire. But I do. think that there are things that, in my opinion, again, I

should just say, I liked the film a lot. But I think there were things and moments that were lost because of that. What do you mean? Well, I would have to jump to like the very end to get to get to that moment. So I don't know if we want to do that right now, if you want me to like slowly move there, but I think the use

of Luke Skywalker, and I think that I feel that Skywalker was wasted in a lot of ways. It's my big beef with the film. Really? I would disagree. but okay. So here's the thing. I don't know which character

you guys loved growing up watching Star Wars, but mine has always been, and still is, Luke Skywalker. Okay. Like, everything about him. I don't know what,

I just, I'm always the like, I like the really good guys, if that makes sense. Yeah. Like, you know, I like the Superman. I like Lou Skywalker.

I like... It's the reluctant hero. This is the oldest story in storytelling history, so I totally get that. It's literally called The Hero's Journey. Yep, yeah.

But, you know, some people love Han. Like, Han's their dude, right? I think if you like Batman, you like Han. Does that make sense? You're the Han Solo guy. He's kind of the rebel. And I just, like, I liked Han.

And I thought Han got a great send-off and a great movie in Force Awakens. And my thing with Luke was, I was totally cool with him being like the reluctant hermit and the training of Ray and the moving into exile. But I literally have to skip to the end. So my huge, my, my, stuff. Yeah, my huge beef is I just feel like there was moments where, especially when he faces Kylo that, It was just not, like, I was waiting for a payoff for him to have a heroic return, and I got a little bit of it. But then it was fast and masked and, like, lost some in the humor. I just, there was too much humor for me, if that makes sense, especially around Skywalker, where I was like, okay.

I get it. I get it. He's a hermit. Oh, look at him, look at him, milk that bird for some milk. That's okay. Great. See, I have a, I think I disagree with you, because I see Luke Skywalker in this film as Yoda. and this is very much the path Yoda took,

the reluctant master who knew the possible false in his training and fights against doing it. I mean, this is very much the same thing Yoda does, which is arguably one of the problems you could say with the film is that in many ways this is just Empire Strikes Back. Yes, yes. But I don't think that.

I am not one of the many people who have prescribed to the telling of the Empire Strikes Back remake. I think this was an interesting take on both Empire and Return. I felt like they did something that I wasn't expecting. I was expecting to make a literal remake of Empire Strikes Back, but instead they took both of those formulas and kind of perverted them. And I thought that was terrific. I wasn't, every time they did something, I wasn't expecting it, and I really appreciated that. So, that's interesting if you bring up Yoda.

And, like, Chris, I agree with you. And that's, that is what I thought he was going to be, even from the moment of her giving him the lightsaber. I was like, okay, Yoda moment. I think we even talked about that. But here's the thing. And this is what I'm talking about, like, I feel like a lot of times this movie didn't have some of the payoffs that I wanted as a viewer. And, again, I prefaced by saying, I still love the shit out of this movie and, like, he wanted to see it again the next day. And that's perfect.

So great. So one of the things I love about Empire. and while it may seem quick as like, there's training there. Like, there's some legit training. And they do it, they film it quickly again because I just rewatched all these movies.

But there's moments of training. In this movie, like, his training of Ray is like, all right, so feel the force, lesson one, feel the force, feel the force. See that? You didn't even ignore it. Okay.

Second lesson. Third lesson, me. And it just seemed too fast to me. And it seemed like I kind of lost that, that Yoda moment training. And again, I'm okay with it, and it worked. I'm quote-unquote okay with it,

and it worked for me because I like the film as a whole, but I could have gotten more. Like, I could, I would have, more payoff. Like, I feel like this film didn't pay me off all the time in the way that I, as a viewer,

might have wanted. No, I get what you're saying, Nick. I think, I think what's interesting to is between Empire and this movie, if we are to make any comparisons, is the training aspect of both Luke Skywalker and Ray, respectively, is that they're not done.

You know, even at the end of this one with Ray's battle with Kylo Ren, and the same with Darth Vader and Luke Skywalker, is they're not done. And there are strong ramifications to not being done with their training at the end of both of these movies, I think. Right. So I get what you're saying, Nick. The payoff wasn't there. This is not the epitome, the Obi-Wan, the full-effect Jedi. I don't think we're there yet. So if anything, I think it's interesting that we still have a ways to go.

We still don't even know if Ray is going to continue to stay on the light side of the force or not, you know? Oh, see, I was pretty, I felt pretty, pretty like about that by the end of that film. I don't know, because we see this blossoming relationship between Kylo and Ray, whether it's romantic or not. There's a deep connection between those two. A lot can argue that Snoke did that, the villain, the emperor of this moment. movie, but I don't know, man. They are the two sides. Like, they're the only, they're the last two, right?

So you always have to have the Sith and the Jedi. So there's going to be a very strong connection between those two forces, which I think is why Snoke and Luke have such a strong connection for so long, which we never get answered, which I know pissed a ton of people off, where you're just like, I actually didn't give a shit because if you think about the original trilogy, like, you don't know who Palpatine is. It doesn't matter. We never get to know who he is, yeah.

Yeah, you just meet him. The reason we know who Palpatine is because they remade three more movies. otherwise he's just the empire and his ass gets killed at the end of Jedi. And I felt like Snoke was the same thing. It doesn't matter. Like you want to know. I get that. But ultimately, that's not the important thing.

Here's another thing I want to bring up. We have this new writer-director and he is feeling a lot like Josh Whedon to me in terms of like Justice League where he's kind of giving the middle finger to some stuff that they tried to set up in Force Awakens, which I thought was pretty interesting. Yeah. You mean like everything they tried to? seven Force Awakens? Yeah.

Which is what a lot of people didn't like, they were like, I waited two years for that. I get it. That's what you, okay, cool. I completely get that. I mean, for example, we've got, you know, we've all been waiting to see where Ray comes from,

like what lineage she comes from. Is she Luke's daughter? Is she some, like, far off Jedi? In this, we learn that possibly, we don't know for sure. She's nobody. Oh, I love it. She's absolutely nobody.

And Chris, I agree. That's beautiful. think it was a gorgeous moment of storytelling that it does not matter if you are a Jedi or not. Jedi is a religion. The force is something that everyone can have. And I think that was the message of the movie. Luke preaches it. Yoda preaches it.

And even fucking Kylo Ren in saying that like, you are a part of this. You come from nothing. Come with me. In the last moments too, where it's the kid, you know, I mean like the stable boy who has the force, which is another beautiful last moment. It's funny because I'm thinking about this in retrospect, you realize that the director and writer, he's setting this up in the very beginning that it doesn't matter

because the line of some in one way or another, letting the past be, letting it die, letting it go is constantly mentioned, right? The past does not matter at all. And it is just reinforced through this whole movie. And I was like, and I also wonder if that's not just the director. I kept being like, it screamed of JJ Abrams to me because it screamed of spoilers lost, where at the end of the day,

none of it mattered other than just the people in the moment that were involved. And I felt like that was pretty much this movie. It's like, listen, the past, in the past is dying now, even in terms of like your old characters from the last Star Wars. Like it's, it's starting to not matter. It's a new beginning.

It's a new rebellion. It's a new resistance. The resistance is gone, essentially. It's a new grand leader. Yeah. Sure. And Ray's just a nobody, for lack of a better term, right? she comes from nowhere, so her past doesn't matter.

Well, yeah, and Nick, too, like, the point you bring up is really interesting, because that's kind of what has made Luke what he is now. He's so, you know, stuck in the past of what happened with Kylo Ren, you know, him turning to the dark side, killing off the entire Jedi order. That entire thing he believes was his own fault, and that he has caused all this, and that's made him go into exile. And I think, like you said, this nobody, this, this, this, comes to get him out of that and show him like, look, things are going on right now and we need

your help, which I think, you know, again, Luke learns another valuable lesson before his inevitable fate. Oh, that line of, you know, you learn, the being of teacher, your failure is as much a part of being a teacher as your success. That was a cool moment. Loved it. Yeah. Yeah.

Delivered by a unknown, tiny, green Jedi that we have never seen before. So I'm trying to think of more of these really surprising moments that we got throughout this. What about not finding out Finn's past? I know that was something like a lot of people got. The one person who knows Finn's background gets it. I mean, we get it, though, right? We get it in the first movie. Essentially, we get that it's a person who's, what, sold to the, what is it, the first order as a child or something?

It's basically the same as a child slave. Yeah. Yeah. It's funny because, like, I don't care about it, but I know. the person I talked to who did not like the movie that was one of his big things is like he wanted to know Finn's past that you have still mystery around it and like that's

totally I guess unresolved because of phasma it didn't bother me I'm just trying to think of things like the person who didn't like the movie like brought up to me well that's a good point I think Finn's character did get the short end in this movie for sure he had this weird B plot with this new character I like that plot guys was her name it's escaping me right now

uh Rose Tico Rose Tico there we go Yeah, interesting. We get introduced to this new character who makes a pretty bold, heroic decision towards the end of the movie. What did you guys think of her? The way the trailer and the posters

sort of portrayed her is she's going to be a very integral part of this new, not just trilogy, just new franchise moving forward. And she has this weird B-plot with Finn that ends up at some weird-ass casino, which, don't get me started. They could have cut that entire part out. I do want to talk about when we get to that,

do you want to talk about Benicio del Toro? But Chris, what did you think of her, this new character? I love the character. I thought the character was amazing. I thought the actress was phenomenal. I had a problem with a lot of that entire plot. Honestly, the more I think about it, this film took place in two parts,

and both of them were a little underwhelming. I really enjoyed that the Finn Poe-Rose storyline existed. I think it was ultimately what the film was supposed to be about, but it didn't really land for me because of the subversion of expectations at every corner. Like, on the one hand, I really love that they essentially... Can we just acknowledge that this film is largely an allegory for society as we know it right now?

Yeah. Yeah, I would say that. Into that end, I think that they're going to the, 1% planet that is largely I mean this is what it is right that's literally what they propose it the fact that they do that and

they find the children in the minds and in the stables and all that I think that's beautiful and I think that's wonderful and I think that's a really important message but as a story it didn't really do much for me it felt like a movie right like its own like mini movie

inside of the bigger movie and a weird way to me. Honestly, I felt it was the other way around. I felt like the, I felt like the, because the Ray Luke storyline just didn't go anywhere for such a long time. I mean, it was fun watching it, not go anywhere, but it didn't go anywhere

for such a long time. I just kind of feel like, all right, this is what they want this movie to be about. They wanted to be about the rebels writing the empire. And that was really exciting and really dynamic, except for the fact that it wasn't those things. Like, It doesn't change at all.

It's like, okay, we're being chased. This thing's being chased, and now we're going to find a person, and they find a person, but the person isn't. And I thought that was cool, that DJ turns on them, and that's not like a double turn. He just turns. He's just like, no, I'm bad. Yeah, he's great. And he's not bad.

He's just indifferent. And I thought that was a great change for the Star Wars universe, whereas usually that character would have turned into Han Solo in this situation. Orlando. Yeah, I did get, you know, definitely wafts of Landau in that character. And let's face it, if this were a George Lucas film, that you would have had Landau pop up somewhere on that planet. I still kind of wanted to pop up that planet, guys. I'm not going to lie. Do we do we know why he is the only one that hasn't returned to these movies? My understanding is that, it was just a matter of

they didn't have a place for him is what the interview said. So I don't know what the actual reason is, but that's what they said. Interesting. Yet we can have these porgs, which we'll get to. I love the porgs.

Back off the porgs, man. Dude, they are adorable. Did you love the Walks? Were you an Ewak person? I wasn't. I'm still an Ewak person. That's why you love the porgs. Yeah, absolutely.

Well, here's, okay, before we go any further, let's discuss the porgs. Now, before this movie even came out, these porgs became a cultural phenomenon, a meme. They were everywhere. Merchandisers out there.

Everything. And then, like, what? What? We got them a little towards the end of the movie. And there was tons of them. And they weren't even a part of the plot. So this is interesting. I think it's toys and comic relief.

Again, that's when I think the director is like, here's the line for me for comedy, right? Like, I'm going to draw a line in the sand. And I'm going to just step over it a few times just to see if I can. just to be like, you know what? Fuck it. I'm going to try it. I'm going to put some porgs in there.

And there's going to be around. And I'm going to make a joke of. I've made a joke out of a vegan Chewbacca. So, yeah, because I can. I think the porgs are indicative of the difference between the Justice League film and the Star Wars films. The porgs are a completely useless thing that doesn't need to be there. But it adds so much characterization to this universe. They're these cute little.

animals, these creatures that are on the world, and they show you what life would be like here. This film is full of life. You see, even in the backgrounds of scenes with Luke and Ray, like some weird dragon sea creature off in the distance. When you're on a planet, you see the birds flying, you see people doing weird things in the background, and every shot has personality,

and you feel like this is a living, breathing universe. It's fleshed out, totally. It is, and you feel like you're a part of something and you're seeing as something that's really happening, and that's great. Whereas, as we said with the Justice League films, they're completely devoid of that. They have no humanity, as I've said.

And I think that's where this film really thrives. Like all of the Star Wars films, when you really start to look at them and study them, the stories are fairly rudimentary, but the world that they've created is just overflowing with life. Yeah. And that's something you know, you mentioned that, Chris, because going back again, having...

I really think it's beneficial, if you can, to re-watch all these movies before you go into a new one. That was, I think, one of the big problems with the original... The episode one, two, and three is that they brought back to, like, this movie, especially, and Force Awakens, like, the tangible world, right? Like, the things that you can touch and feel and you're a part of, like you said, the porgs or any... like the caretakers on the island

which I love. Right. Yeah. Absolutely. That I think, you know, that both J.J. Abrams and in a lot of ways, Disney, because we got to, you got to throw, you know, good or bad, you got to give them credit. We're like, we need to take this back to a place where it's, it feels tangible and real, like the first

trilogy, or the, you know, the original 4, 5, and 6. And I really did like this about this movie. Even the, even the, the worlds that were really CGI, like the casino, I still felt like it was a tangible place to me, like some place that I could go and exist and engross my in and that's why I'll forgive a lot of the like quote unquote sins that I thought this movie had because which is the same way I feel about four five six like I'll forgive whatever sins they have because I'm so transported into that world it's so engrossive sure and I felt this was even more so like I love the part where they're on the planet and they pick up the and again it's exposition but it's just beautiful where they're like it's salt and you're like oh all right I hated that moment like I understood why it was there but all it screamed to me of some sort of a design choice where they just went, we gotta explain what this step is because people are

going to think he's bleeding. So let's just have him point out. Exposition it away. It'll be fine. It's funny. I just felt the opposite because for me, and maybe this is because I'm not a writer like you guys are, that for me it's just like Joe Smow, actor guy watching a movie. I sometimes like that little stuff because I wouldn't have cared either way. If you would have never told me what it was, I would have been like, don't give a shit. But the fact that you did, I just enjoyed, it just showed like a new thought to a movie, right? Like, even if it was, was like we want to make something that looks cool and we don't want it to be snow because we had hopped already make it salt but i just i don't know it was a nice touch i liked it i liked it i like

it was it felt very exposition to me but i still liked it it made me like okay that's what this world is it's a brand new world i think i think you're right i think it helped flesh out what the one thing i always appreciated about star wars is the the difference in all the planets it's like extremes you know what i mean and every time you go to a new planet it's something that you're like, oh, wow. Like, it's an entire planet of forest. It's an entire planet of snow. Really interesting.

So I like that they sort of harken back to that idea of all white. There's something about it that was extremely. It just captured the eye, especially when the battle began on the planet. I honestly thought they were just doing Hoth again. Hoth again. Yeah, I did do it first. Part D. Uh-huh.

Did you guys catch the, like, Love Square that they're setting up at the end of the film? Between, like, Ray and Po, Ray and Finn, Finn and... Yeah, that's weird. I know what I'm like, where's it going to get? It might not go anywhere knowing this. It could be nothing. But like, you don't know. Can I just say that they had suggested that eventually there's going to be an LGBTQA relationship in the Star Wars universe.

Is anybody wondering if they're going to start adding polyamory to? Because that's the only way I can see this working because of how many different relationships they have in that thing now. Here's my thing. And I hate, hate, hate, hate to say this. but we have to remember that this is Disney and they have to take baby steps when it comes to that stuff. Now, when we first, when Force Awakens came and went, you know, the rumors were that Finn and Poe were going to end up together.

And I was all for that. I'm like, that'd be incredible. And now this new writer, again, I think he's keeping us on our toes that we have no idea what's coming next. And because of how successful this movie was with this writer and director, I do wonder, you know, I believe JJ Abrams. Abrams is writing the next one. He's writing and directing the next one.

Okay, yeah. If they will tackle any of that, Chris, it'll be interesting. I think right now we have absolutely no clue who might be romantically interested, who might not, or if any of them will. Who knows? I personally suspect that Rose and her sister were originally supposed to be Rose and her lover, and that once Rayne or Ryan or whatever his name has got a hold of it, they changed it. Or maybe Disney backed out. I don't want to blame the director just because things changed.

you never know. It could have been any number of things. But I could see that. When I saw her looking down at that necklace in her hands, I just looked at it. I was like, oh, my God, they did it. This is amazing. And they don't even have to acknowledge it. Like, people who know will know, and then that gets the Disney vacation of it out of the way. And it'll work. I was so excited. And then she said, I just lost my sister.

It was like, oh, you cowards. Yeah. But I mean, I always have to remember, like, it is Disney. We have to take, I mean, I know this is a cop, but like, because it's Disney, You have to take the good and the bad of Disney, right? Same thing with the Marvel films. Like, I watch those films. I'm like, I know it's going to get Disney-fied,

but I'll take it because right now they're still really good. Yeah. And I just, I want good. Yeah, and I mean, again, Force Awakens was the first time we saw blood in a Star Wars movie, you know? That's not true. There's blood and New Hope. Was it blood? Was it blood?

Or was it just his uniform chopping up? Hmm. I thought it was just his red uniform being chopped up. Hmm. I think it's blood because there is blood and New Hope guys. When his arm gets cut off, there's blood. Is there? I don't remember.

Yes. When Obi-1 chaps the arm off of the dude in the bar, there's blood. All right, I retract my statement that I'm a huge Star Wars fan. All right. All the reason I know. So let's get to Laura Dern, Vice Admiral Amelon Haldow. Um, I didn't care for this one, guys. I thought it was completely unnecessary.

I understand. Laura Derns in that movie? I think that was a pretty good, like... She looked like she was out of the fifth element. or something. I mean, Star Wars, it kind of always comes out that way. Yeah. But, I mean, I guess my question is, was her storyline?

Like, yeah, she ends up sacrificing herself at the end for this greater cause, but, like, I didn't understand really what was going on between her and Poe and the struggle for, like, control over what the, you know, the resistance was going to do next. It just felt weird. I didn't know, like, was she, like, a double agent and, like, trying to sabotage everything? I think that's what... It was unclear to me. I think that's what they were trying to set up.

And by that, I mean, they were trying to set up that suspicion of, oh, my God, they're being followed. Maybe she's a double agent, and it's her fault. But honestly, I don't feel like if they were trying to do that, that it landed. I honestly think it was very clearly a second act set up for the third act twist, where Poe Damran has to become the commander because Leah is no longer with us. right but this is the part where the pacing really fell flat for me guys because then it's like oh po takes control oh no now she's back in control it was just it was way too quick for me i don't know i think it's i think it's yeah it didn't work for me i again i lot of the stuff that didn't i was

like okay whatever but i think it's also the idea of giving poe someone to learn what it is to be a leader but that makes sense because like while there is lea like poe's the hot head right he's the i guess the han solo oh i just realized something and this is what it's really bad. Do you think that the reason she's in this is because Carrie Fisher passed away, and a lot of that was, no, it's not possible because they're in scenes together.

Yep, and she died, and Carrie Fisher, you know, Carrie Fisher's still very much alive in the end of this movie. Carrie Fisher pulled a Superman, and we will get to that. Oh, yeah. Yeah, we will get to that because I want to discuss how annoyed I liked it. I liked it, and I liked it.

All right. No, because I just used it. I'm sorry, I go ahead. Go ahead. I know, I just say, I think Lordearn's character's there just to, like, so poke and see what, like, quote, unquote, true leadership is, right? That she had, this is what it's like to have a bigger plan besides just, like, fucking drop the bombs because we can. She's like, no, there was a bigger idea and a bigger plan at work. And then when it came time for her to react impulsively and be,

you know, for her to be the flyboat, which is fly the ship into it, she does it, right? So it's like, this is what leadership is. That might not have worked, but I got what they were trying to do with, that character because they didn't want to kill Leah off yet. Right. Which again... You can only lose one character in a movie. Well, that's the thing, and we're almost there. That was one of the biggest

twists in this movie that a lot of people were not expecting was which character we were going to lose. So we are going to tread lightly and get to that. But before we go any further, guys, there is a... I don't know if he's uncredited, but he is credited in the cast list on

Wikipedia, and that's Tom Hardy. As who? Stormtrooper. That's it. Oh, kind of like how, Craig. He's the Daniel Craig of Force Awakens. Yeah. So I see this being the new, you know, sort of Stan Lee in every Marvel movie. We're going to get like an A-list celebrity playing an uncredited, usually masked character

in all of these stories. Who just wants to be in fucking Star Wars? Which is awesome. And I wish I had the clout to do something like that. Hey, I just want to be in it. I don't care what I do. Can you put me in it? Seriously.

Yeah. So yeah. Tom Hardy was in this one, again, proving that he's the best actor to wear a mask. So I'm on... It's true. I'm on IMDB right now. It turns out, looks like there's a few more surprises that you probably didn't catch. No.

So Joseph Gordon Levitt did the voice of Slow and Low? I don't even know what that is. That makes sense. He was like a looper. Yeah, exactly. And Brick. And Brack. It looks like Lord.

I assume that's who Billy Lord is, is Lieutenant Connix. Justin Thoreau was Master Codebreaker, so the guy who they were supposed to get. That's who that is. Okay. Wait, who's Justin Rowe? Nick, go ahead. Bro was in the leftovers. He was or is married to Jennifer Anastan.

Oh, okay. I thought we were talking about the dude from Canada. Billy Lord is Kay Fisher's daughter. Oh, okay. The blonde who survives. Oh, that's right. That's pretty Fisher's daughter. That's who blue.

That's right. We also have Gareth Edwards, was Resistance Trench Soldier, and I think that's all of them that are listed here on IMDB. That's awesome. I love it. Oh, and Gary the Dog played Space Gary uncredited. Uncredited. Nice. I don't know.

I just think that one's funny to say. That's pretty awesome. Okay, so, okay. Let's get to it. I know you're chopping at the mid. No, no, there's one thing I want to get to. So, hold on. Sorry.

who becomes the grand supreme leader by the end of this movie, right? Hold on. Before we move on to Luke Skywalker, can I say my piece about Carrie Fisher and her lack of use power? I disagree with you on this one. All right. So this, I am really upset that Princess Leia, arguably the most exciting and anticipated Jedi in all of the world, is never going to get to use her power in any sort of interesting way. Okay.

She did some weird, like, as you call it, Supermaning out of space, and then she promptly fell asleep for the next half a movie. And I was like, okay, cool, you got to see that she had powers. Like, granted, she's been telepathically communicating with people for however long. But why couldn't she lift those boulders at the end? Why couldn't she have, like, lowered the door with her? Why couldn't she have had her beautiful moment where she's going to do something? Like, why couldn't she drive the ship with her mind or something?

She needed to have a moment where she got to... Because she is a generation's princess who finally became a general. She is the embodiment of the feminist movement. And she's going to go out with a whimper. And that's really depressing. Well, I can say go read the books, because in the books, she does have force. She does use it. But, you know, the thing I think I have to think about, I agree with you, Chris.

I actually do. Maybe that was going to come and she passed away. That's what I'm thinking. Now, we... Like, that scene was an introduction to... Yeah. Because she's the last one, right? She's the last of the three.

And they had said that they were leaving her there. She was going to be the major player in the third movie as well. So maybe that force was... That was going to happen later on, and now that opportunity is gone, which is really sad. And that was an introduction to just how powerful potentially she is, because Ben is too, and so is Luke. Yeah, agreed. Yeah, I think this was...

It's still sad. And Christian, right, it still sucks, but... It sucks, and I think it was. It was just a tiny hint of what we were going to get in this third installment of the trilogy. Unfortunately, as we all know, she passed away. How they're going to deal with this is going to be very interesting because this leads to the biggest twist, I would say,

in the entire movie. So, Nick, I know you've been sort of waiting for this, so I'm going to let you take the... I want to talk about Kylo Ren before. before I get into this. Fine. I was giving you gold, and you just shut it back in my face. Okay, I'm sorry.

I want Kyle Wren to be bad. I don't want a good Kyle Wren. I want Kyle Wren to be bad for the entire film, and I don't want him to redeem himself. Now I can talk about Luke if you want me to. No, let's actually, let's discuss Kylo just for a moment here, for sure. What do you guys think of out of driver's portrayal of what we consider the new Darth Vader? I think Kylo Ren, actually let me rephrase this.

I think Adam Driver is a very mediocre actor whose very mediocre talents show very well in Star Wars. He doesn't do angry very well. He doesn't do conflicted very well. But dang it, it works. It works in that kind of caricature style that Star Wars has always had, where good and bad is always very clearly outlined. so much so that their swords change colors based upon their feelings. I like it. It's not good, but I like it.

I will take a Kyle, I will take an Adam Driver over a hating Christian. Kristen's playing a distraught Jedi all day and twice on Sunday. Oh, yeah. I think he's what they wanted Anakin to be. But couldn't get a decent actor to do it. Or just George Lucas was just like, I love him. You know what's funny? Like, I'm kind of with Chris.

And again, Chris probably doesn't remember this. We saw Adam Driver on stage a long time ago at Rattlestick Theater Company. And I remember seeing him being like, okay. Do you remember what play that was? I don't. I remember, Chris, you took it to me, and it was at. It was one of the, like, you know, extremet play. It wasn't the aliens, was it?

No, no, no, no. It was not like a major Annie Baker play. I don't think it ever got produced past Battlestick. Wow. For anyone who doesn't know, Rattlestick is one of the best theater companies in New York City, hands down. New, bold, risky plays, go see their work. Okay, plug, done.

And they workshop a lot of stuff, which is what Chris and I saw. So here's my thing, like, I'm not like an Adam Driver fan. Like, I have moments from, like, I can recognize that he can do really good work. And I can enjoy his work. And I think he does some interesting stuff as a character that can be subtle. And I think he's doing exactly what they want him to do in those massive mood swings. And to be clear, I think that's hard as an actor.

Because when you have those massive mood swings, you have to justify it for it to work. Oh, sure. But that being said, I'm just not an Adam Driver fan. Does that make sense? Yeah. Like, he's fine. I enjoy him in the movie. I enjoy him in the movie.

I think he does a good job with it. I'm just not like, oh, yeah. Dude, Adam Driver's in this movie. I got to go see it. I'm just like, oh, Adam Driver's here. Okay, he's not, you know what? He's not going to make it bad. He's just, he's going to be there and he's going to serve the role.

Yeah. I miss the helmet. Yeah. I really like that. It was a really good design. It was. It was pretty scary, too. You just wanted him to have a shirt off the whole time, don't you?

You were like, Adam Driver. As long as he has his helmet on. That was another great moment we had when, And when Kylo and Ray are having their intimate telepathic communication, and Kylo's there shirtless and she can see him. And she's just like, could you put, you know, maybe a cowl on or something? I thought that was great. I really like what they're doing with the character, though, in terms of spoiler,

he kills Snoke, which is one of the big things where you're like, oh, fuck. Yeah. Yeah. And let's point out, like, that is shocking. Like, that is arguably the most shocking thing in this film. I thought it was one of the most effective moments in the film in terms of the twist they did do. To me, that was the most effective. I was like, holy shit.

He's the, because you know the Sith, they always killed their master. Like, that's the thing. We set up from episode like one, two, three, four, five, six, seven. And to just see that happen to finally witness the apprentice, kill the master and become the Sith Lord. I was like, fuck yeah, man. Yeah. Do you do it. You lightsaber that, dude, and try to take an apprentice.

But now here's my thing. I don't want to see him become good. Like, make that change. complete. I think they will. I don't know. I'm worried they'll be like, because like drivers are heart throb and some weird girls universe, they'll be like, no, Disney's be like, no, we got to make them good

again, guys, so the ladies will be happy. Maybe. Yeah, I agree. I don't think it's going to hold. I think there's, I just don't have faith in Star Wars not to do the redemption arc. But I want

them to, right? I want him to just be fucking bad. Like, you are a Sith Lord now. Right. I want to see the Darth Vader that we saw in Rogue 1. Just like a badass, terrifying, doesn't give a shit, and just kills anything in his

path. We're seeing that... I mean, if you think about it, this dude has now killed his father, and he's also killed the Sith Lord. Like, it doesn't get much worse than that. And that makes his flaw the fact that he's young, right? Exactly, he's just still young and so angry

and he hasn't channeled that anger in the way that Palpatine has or Vader did in a lot of ways. I will find that way more dynamic. If Ray has to just fucking off him, if she's just like, like Luke says, you know, I can't save him. I can't save him. And Lay is even like, I know. And that's what I want.

Like, follow that fucking storyline now because that would be a great, I think, climax with Ray and him and like this final battle actually being final. Yeah, which they don't do. Yeah, that's fair. Which they won't do because we know, not only are we getting one, another trilogy, we're getting another trilogy after that. They've already said this, and then we're getting all the offshoots.

Daisy Ridley said that she's not doing past three. Like, she was signed on for three, and that's her story. I personally think that's the Robert Downey Jr. move. Exactly. Maybe. Who knows? Let's negotiate in public. Yeah, I think that's just how people have to do business with Disney now.

And you know that they will pay big money to keep her, and they will also change their stories to make sure that these characters that people seem to really like, continue. Exactly. It's Robert Dunny Jr. all over again. Until they fuck it up, I trust him. I tell him, it's like the Marvel movies,

until that I start fucking it up, I'm going to be like, you know what? You got my heart. You got my heart, Star Wars. Same. Sure. Now you want me to talk about Luxia Walker at the end? All right, guys.

Are you going to let him set you up this time? So I cried twice. I cried twice during this movie. Once was The Scroll, Chris. When the music comes in and Star Wars shows up, I lost it. Grab Jane's hand and just Yeah, tear came down.

And then this was the second moment. Not the lead up to it, but the final moment when it, and we both know what it is, happens. So I was blubbering like a little child. So Nick, please take it. I can't do it. This is kind of like my Superman moment guy. It's like the last time. So here's a thing.

Okay. There's so much that I liked about Luke Skywalker moment. And then there's so much that I was like really disappointed and liked again. His moment with Leah when he comes in and talks to her, gorgeous. When he just shows up in. you're like, fuck yeah, Luke Skywalker's back,

motherfuckers. Dude, it was like a perfect silhouette shot from Return of the Jedi. It was awesome. Oh, and he came back

and he looked different. I'm like, you look different, Mr. Skywalker, but I was like, I'm going with it. I'm like, you look thin

and ready to do some fighting. And he goes out. And there's a reason for that. Yeah. Continue. Yeah. Oh, I know. Well,

this is my. Anyway, he goes out and he faces down the, the due ATSTs, ATSTs. AT80s. ATATs.

AT-ATs. face it down new ATATs and like Kyle Ren's like fire everything and you just watch this and he walks out and he's just unscathed and you're like he does the brush of the shoulder I know but I had that moment of being like holy shit because you know he's

powerful right and you wanted to see how powerful is Luke really because we have all of his backster we don't know right but you alleged to Belette believe that he is a legend beyond just return of the Jedi that he is a legend on you know on a scale that is unheard of and that he is so powerful

with the force that like fucking laser beans can't touch him i was like all right it's go time and then kailorin comes down and like the fight scene starts right and i'm like oh there's the classic stance he's in the stance like a little old but he's in stance and you know he does the cool datsaber thing and the cool lightsaber swing and then it's over and it was like i wanted the yoda moment like chris mentioned earlier i wanted the like badass fucking lightsaber fight yoda moment with luke skywalker because i never really got it because we weren't there with return of the jedi yet You know, we just weren't there fight choreography-wise.

I will argue that those fight scenes with Vader and Luke were better than any fight, the lightsaber fight I've seen since. Agreed. I disagree, but that's because I'm a glutton for like action. So I like a little, I like it a little sparked up.

Like, I like the Ray, lightsaber fight scene from the last film. That was great. Oh, yeah. The Kymo and Ray's lightsaber fight? Oh, it's great. With the guards in the, you know, that was, I think the fight choreography in this movie was great.

The lightsaber. So do I. Let me take it a bearer. I wish the fight with Kyler on Luke was a little bit longer. Does that make sense? Absolutely. I would have liked a little bit more payoff from it because it was so badass. But hold on. You couldn't though, right? Because of what happens. Well, this is my saying. So that's my

right. Go ahead. So this fight happens and Luke does the cool lightsaber dodge and does some lightsaber swingy swings. And finally, Kyle Ren, like, he turns his lightsaber off and you're like, oh man, it's going to be the Obie moment. And I'm like, Fuck, man, that wasn't long enough for the OB moment, but okay, Obi moment, I knew it was coming.

And Kyle Wren, like, you know, looks like he's going to slice him in half. And Luke Skywalker just turns around and, like, motherfucker, you can't even touch him. Yeah. And then you realize that he's not even really there. Yeah. And I was like, oh, oh. You didn't like that, Nick?

Okay, so this is... No, hold on. Okay, go. Let me tell you why, though. Let me tell you why, because I was... So this is why... And then, you know, then you... So, just to finish it.

And then you see him, and you realize that he is transmitting him, so he's so strong. with the force, he has transmitted himself there and caused the decoy to save everybody. To me, it diminished just how badass it would have been had he actually been able to stop all the fucking laser beams. I have a simple man,

and I wanted to actually see Luke Skywalker be there. But if at the end moment Luke Skywalker was beautiful, and I loved that last shot and the symbolism of it, I just really want him to actually be there. And, I mean, I understand, like, the, oh, yeah, aspect of that sentiment. I'm a meat head. I'm totally a meathead. And lovingly, yeah, that's the meathead perspective.

Because the, I mean that lovingly, but the whole concept of the Jedi is supposed to be pacifism. It's the light. It's the we win without the sword. If you use the sword that you have and that you hold and that you carry with you at all moments, you turn to the dark side. It's the moments when you lower your sword that you win the battle. and that is an important I mean that's carried through all seven, eight movies now

and so you can't have Luke Skywalker show up and beat him with his fist because that's how Luke Skywalker turns to the dark side once and for all and instead he turns to the light once and for all. Yes, Chris, not only that, but I also think it would have, it just would not have come off genuine if, and I'm talking just, you know, logistics, having Luke at this age, Mark Hamill, I should say, at this age, fighting a young Kylo Wren.

It just, I don't think it would have worked. Maybe it could have, and that would have shown how strong, physically, Luke Skywalker is. But, Chris, like you say, I think what's most important is this idea that this writer is giving us glimpses of the force we've never seen before. And you know what? That force projection of being able to transmit yourself somewhere else, I think that was incredible.

And now we know more of what these Jedi are capable. love if they reach this level that Luke seems to have done. So yeah, I thought it was really interesting. I see both sides of it. I did think when he showed up for that battle with Kylo Ren that he's looking a little thin, little younger, little CGI. What's going on? Looking good, Luke.

You're looking like you. Oh, yeah, he looks ripped. It was like a good-looking fella. It was weird. So right then I'm like, something's off about this. And then when it's revealed what he did, yeah. I just, I just, I guess my one thing is, The one moment it took away was when the lasers hit him.

Like, that to me was such like a gist. I was just like, oh, well, he's not there. You'll always have that moment. Like, you'll have that moment. And at the same time, like, he's still an awesome badass for having thought of this. Oh, yeah. No, listen, I still love Mr. Luke Skywalker. You know what made me think it was off?

It wasn't his look. It was the blue lightsaber. Why is that? Because he had a green one in the confrontation with Kyle Ren. and he's had a green one as far as we know since we've returned the Jedi. And when that lightsaber lights up blue, I was like, why is he a blue light saber? It was Obi-Wan's lightsaber. Oh, because Ray has the green one that breaks in the battle.

Correct. No, Ray's is blue because she has Luke's. Uh-oh. We're getting our lightsaber's tangles. Luke's is green. So Luke's is green from Jedi, and it's green when he goes to potentially kill Kylo Ren but doesn't. It's his green lightsaber from Jedi. When he unveils and lights up his lightsaber in the last fight, it's a blue lightsaber.

Yes. So I was like, when the fuck? Oh, you're right. That's the lightsaber that Ray got from the, wasn't it from like the temple or whatever? Yeah, which was Benz. Which was Benz. But I thought Ray had Luke's lightsaber that gets snapped when she's fighting with Kylo, when they're pulling the force and it, it shatters. if there are any larger Star Wars nerds than we are, please write it into somewhere in the skies.

What light paper are they fucking using in that movie? Anyway, I'm getting it all mixed up now. Yeah, all I know is that is confusing, Nick. I get that. But I did, but I did like, I mean, listen, but I thought the end in his moment of his death was beautiful. And like the silhouette of the two sons again. It's the two sons. The full, like, coming on.

Though, speaking that, this is why I don't think he's coming back, guys. I would love him to come back. Let me just be clear. I would love some ghost Luke. Like we got some ghost Yoda. But Carrie, I mean, Princess Lair says he's gone. I felt his presence leave. And I think that's the only one thing to mention that she's like,

that she can't feel him at all anymore. And so I think it means that he's not, he's not Yoda or, or Obi-1. I don't know. I think you're going too far with that statement. I think so too. I think you're taking that line a little too. too broadly. I think we'll see a fuzzy blue luke in the future.

I would love a fuzzy blue luke, but I'm just saying, guys, if there's not a fuzzy blue luke in a year and a half now, listen. So here's the thing. Quote that line. So everyone was under the assumption that Princess Leia was going to die in this movie.

We have lost Kerry Fisher. Disney has made it very clear. They will not do a CGIed version of her in the next film. Again, this movie was finished filming before she passed away. so the plan was that she was going to be an integral part of this next film

my question to you guys is how do you think they're going to cover this I hope it's not some half-ass like just oh she died I that's exactly what I think it's going to be I think it's going to be a scroll the scroll that sets up sets up whatever's going on

because here's the thing that this film we don't really get the next act we get an idea that there's some rebellion left Ray has embraced a Jedi and that Ren is now the first order right he's in charge of the first order but everything's in tatters So I think it very well could be the motivation for whatever happens in the next film,

and they had to rework that third film, that her death is going to spurs, a rebirth in the rebellion maybe. The thing that really sparks again is her death. I think two things are possible. I think the first one, which would really suck, is that after the scroll, you pan down to a ship, you see a silhouette in the chair that's supposed to be Leah and Kylo Ren destroying the ship. that would be awful.

I think hopefully the thing that's more likely is that they do a jump in time. All those kids who were encouraged or motivated to become part of the rebellion are aging. Some of them have joined Ray as disciples, whatever the Jedi children, what, younglings? Aetuanes.

Whatever the hell they called them in the prequels. They killed the young ones. Oh, fuck. Yeah, the babies of the younglings. So anyway, they, like, those kids have, are being trained by Ray, and we're starting to see the grand battle that never was. And somewhere in that maybe Princess Leia or General Leia slowly passes in her sleep. I think that would be a nice, beautiful, touching moment.

I don't think that's what we're going to get. I think we'll probably get something between the two. But I think that's how it should go. Yeah, I hope she could, I hope she could get to send off. I hope she gets an actual send-off one way or another. But it is sad. It's one of those things like, man,

I wish we would have seen what Leah, where that would have gone. Because if I think if there was a redemption story to be told for Kylo Ren, it would be through Leah. But I think now that Leah's gone, I think that that should be, and she's the one that doesn't get the send-off, right? Like all of our original people got send-offs.

Yeah. In really lovely ways, I mean, I told Chris the other day, Hans Silligan killed in Force Awakens. Maybe it's because I have a son. I just like, I watch him like, he touched his face. I get it, man. I think I was in such shock, because it's the first time we saw one of our beloved characters in the originals.

Gone, gone forever. I mean, I had called it months before, and so I was a shot. I think everybody knew, but, oh, it still got me. As soon as he walked down there, I was like, and he's dead. All right, he's dead. I mean, yes. When you were there watching that Force Awakens and you see that long shot of him going down, the bridge. I'm like, oh, this is not gonna end well.

Yeah. But it still gets me, man. It's still like, you know, that was something that came up. I was talking to say that not weird. She's like, did you like, did you like, yeah, I did. And she's like, you don't sound sure. I was like, you know, no, no, it's not that I didn't like it. And I was trying to express to her without, like, ruining anything. So I ended up expressing it to my brother because he had seen. I was like, it's really sad in a way for me to see all of these old characters come to an end. Even if they are in beautiful ways, like, and I get it. And I like that. and I like that there's a new story and new blood and a new adventure and a new saga.

But there's that little part of me that's kind of like, man, it took so long to get these movies. And there's so much story that wasn't told around these people's lives. And like, I'm going to miss them. Like, it's like part of my childhood. It's like when you let something go from your childhood and you're like, like you put those action figures away for the last time. You're like, all right. Yeah.

I'll see you later. And I just so whenever I watch these movies, I have this. And when Luke died, it was kind of the moment of like, yeah, that's done. That is, it's, it's dunzo. And I was sad. Not in like, in a part of my childhood was like, well, there you go. There you go, Mr. Johnson. You can, you killed it.

Yeah. Sure. You killed it. Which I think is, it was bound to happen, guys. I mean, I didn't, I didn't expect any of our original characters to go past Force Awakens. When I heard that they were going to be in it, I was like, that's nice. It's like a good, cool homage and send off for these characters. they are integral parts of this trilogy.

And I enjoy that they're, or I should say, I respect that they're taking their time and actually making them a part of this. Like, they're passing on both the really dark side of these characters and the really light side. And I think that's great. I don't know about you guys. I'm excited for whatever Star Wars pumps out at this point.

Like, take my money. Well, the thing is the new movie's going to, I feel like this next, this, what are we at, nine? Is that this going to be nine? 789, the newest one? 24, 56. To find the final of this level? Yep, yep, yep, yep.

I feel like this, it really set up for, like, it's a brand new day now. Like, it's, it is time for these characters to come into their own and own this story, because it's now theirs. Like, I feel like that passing of Luke was like, okay, it's yours now. Yeah. So where you got, it is, like, someone's, I've read a great quote was like, it is a new hope, right? And that's why it was okay with this movie not being as dark as empire, because, I think Chris you said it's not empire and it shouldn't be in a lot of ways.

Oh, I was just going to say, because if that were the case, Nick, I think you make a good point that we don't want to see a recycled trilogy. We don't want to see the same arc play out. We do want to see that at some point this galaxy will be free and equal for everyone. That the resistance will have won. everyone can live in peace and the true meaning for the force is finally like revealed I guess in a way

we don't want to see this play out again and again and again with a new villain a new resistance a new battle I mean it will it will there's always maybe like a Jedi and a Jedi but you know I think you're right like it

it's just I don't know it's nice to see like it's a new thing I feel like when Ray opens those doors you're like it is a new It's a new movie in a lot of ways, but still a lot of homage to the old trilogies, which I like, right? They still give, like, fucking Yoda's showing up, guys. I was just like, like, I just slow clapped.

Slow clapped in theater. Dude, and Yoda took lightning from the sky like Thor and blew up a Jedi temple with the scroll. It is pretty sweet. But the books. Did you read them? Well, real preaches weren't they? I was like, fuck yeah, Yoda. Yeah, that was pretty awesome.

blew down. But before we go to further Ray took those books Did anyone notice that? She smuggled the books I did not notice that She smuggled the Jedi books out So clearly I think that proves

That she is not done And she wants to learn more about the Jedi As her powers increase And she is continuing with this journey She wants to learn about the past Which could be not a good thing Like we said, let the past die

Oh man, you guys are so smart. So my question to you all, in the spirit of the new group, as you're saying, this isn't the old character's story anymore, this is the new, the due character's story. And so, I want to ask

you about your thoughts on the increasing diversity in the Star Wars universe. I fucking love it. It's amazing. I mean, we've brought up a few times tonight, like the, sort of the messages that these new movies are sending. I think this one had a lot to do with,

They bring it up a few times that, like, war is inevitable. It's always going to be here, and it's for one reason only, and that's money and power. That was interesting. We got a huge, like, animal rights message throughout this movie. Oh, vegan Chubbacca. Vegan Chubacca. And, like, even, like, saving those, you know, those race things on the planet with the casino. The dog horses?

Yeah, the dog horse thing is. Really cool messages. But yes, we do have an extremely diverse cast across the rainbow spectrum, which I think is incredible. And like you said, Chris, like this is a new story. It is a new Star Wars. So many young kids who are not white are going to now see that, like, I could be a Jedi. I could be in this epic galaxy story. Have you seen a non-white Jedi yet?

Daniel L. Jackson. Boom. So I'm sorry. Go ahead. I didn't mean to cut you off, Ryan. No, no. That's a good point. Like, no, we have not. I have, I have very painful thoughts about this issue because I think it's an amazing thing that they're trying to diversify Star Wars. I mean, this is one of the most popular franchises of history. But in doing so, they're creating a really awkward situation where they're really creating more and more a white savior trope in Star Wars. Every single, I mean, the Jedi have always been an allegory for Christianity and the Christ

figure being Luke Skywalker or whoever. And so now what they're doing is it seems like they're saying, okay, all of these subcharacters are going to be incredibly, incredibly diverse. But when you got to have somebody fight a Jedi, when you got to get down to it and you got to be the savior, we want a white person there. And not just a white person, a white person with a British accent. it doesn't get much more white than that I think there's two things

I think you're right Chris but I'm wondering as we move past this next trilogy as they diversify more and more if that's eventually going to change like you think Ryan you said or Christian and I've said it like it's Disney it's baby steps like as much as that sucks and they need to like not you know it was like Spider-Man like Spider-Man couldn't be Miles Morales

Marales like there's no way that was happening so that was Sony though Disney wanted Miles Morales yeah but it's still the same idea right even, I'm saying like, Sony was like, can't do that. So I think we'll see it diversify more and more, especially if they're doing more trilogies.

I think you're going to see that start to change. I hope. I think so. What I think is interesting to you is now we know, you know, with Ray and with what Yoda and Luke have come to learn and preach, is that anyone can be a Jedi. Anyone can use the force.

It's just harnessing it. My hope, my biggest hope for this franchise is that John Boyega is going to get his time and we saw him handle a lightsaber and Force Awakens. I thought that's amazing. He was going to become the next

John. Maybe we will see that. Twist, they were like, well, because the right for the Washington is going to be John, he's going to be the one. No, it's the lady. It's the white lady. It's the white lady. Which again, but it's a lady, man. It's a lady who's doing some badass shit with a lightsaber. Yep. No, and I

mean, there's an argument here about white feminism and yada-a-yada. I'm not going to make it. But, no, I think there's, you're right, it was, I love seeing Finn, I love Po, I love that all of these characters are diverse, multicultural, and that they're all portrayed in loving ways. That was just one of those things that jumped out at me when I started thinking about it today. No, that's completely understanding. Yeah, the more do you think about it, yeah. And that's a problem we have with these movies, I mean, like, even in the comic movies, right? like it's still an ongoing problem, I think, is slowly being addressed.

And, you know, like, again, fuck the people who have backlash to it. But that's probably why they move so slow as they're like, well, can I watch out for the backlash from... Right. Stupidies, toopees. But I think, again, like, we're getting closer and closer, and they're willing to take chances with, you know, this Rian, Ryan, Rian, Ruan, Rian guy. Mr. Johnson.

Mr. Johnson, let's just go with that. They're willing to take a chance. and have someone challenge everything we thought we knew about Star Wars. We see this, you know, we're finally getting a Black Panther movie. So we're moving in the right direction with Marvel, with Disney, and hopefully in our lifetime, we will see a minority, hopefully a minority female up there as the prime, you know, reason that this entire Star Wars saga has gone on for centuries.

I think Rogue One was a good story. step in that direction with the main actor from that. I know it was still like a female lead which is still great but he was really important, especially to have him not be the English dialect like Chris said. It was, you know, a guy with a Latino Latinx dialect and

I thought that was cool. An interesting point though about the British dialect is that the theme throughout Star Wars with like higher class lower class stuff too. Oh sure. No, my point is simply the whole, you know, colonization thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, no, you're totally right.

it's like the least fighty episode we've ever had guys I think so well one thing we did not mention before we wrap up here gentlemen B B B B B B8 I love me some B B B8 No not B B B8 Chris B B B B B B 8 The bad one yeah that's my point man That was the last one the last movie too though right I don't think so no there's only good B B B8

yeah so we were promised just like the porgs that this B B B8 was going to be some like integral part of the story and it didn't pan out that way exactly. I think it turned and looked at BB8 with some like some robotic galarian eye and that was about all we got. You know, I didn't even know there was going to be a bad BB8 in the movie.

I didn't know the porters are going to be a big party there. I thought the poor were going to be like mini-ewalks and just kind of be around. Fair enough. I was ruined for it. Neither one of those things were ruined for me. I guess it's neither here nor there. I thought I would just bring it up.

I also like saying BB8. One thing that did happen in this movie, no one's face was CGIed and fucked up. No, no mustache was removed in the making of this movie. You have so much hate

for that. Chris, it's my favorite character. It's my favorite one and they fucked his face and he was weird and it was bad. I do have a lot of hate. You have a lot of hate for those movies. It was a shitty movie. I don't care if you fuck up a mediocre character and a shitty movie.

Superman is not a mediocre character. Well, I digress. Guys, I'm going to sit cross-legged and float away and be one with the force now. You might be a off point here. No, not at all. I love it. And again, the fact that Disney just bought Fox as well,

guys, anything, anything is possible. Guys, it's so bad for, like, the world, but so great for a comic book fan. And for anyone listening to this episode, for sure. So, guys, I have to thank you for coming on. I guess any final thoughts, final reactions? I loved it. I love the movie.

I can't wait for what's next. I assume you both are going to go see whatever they come up with next. I'll be at Han Solo whenever they release it. Awesome. Nick? Yeah, no, I loved it. Again, you guys thought like the, I could see the issues some people had, but overall, I was, I was like, I told you, I wanted to see it again, like, the next day. I looked at my wife and I was like, we need to fit, we need to get a babysitter, and we need to go, and you need to see it, and you need to see it now, because it's that great.

So, wait, what movie are we doing next, guys? Ooh, that is a great question Is it Black Panther? Is that the next biggie? I think it is. I'm good for that. We will definitely be back for that. Maybe disaster artist. No, no.

It'll be Black Panther. It is going to be Black Panther. Yes. There you go. So we got a little time for that, guys. But before we go, again, we have your podcast coming up. I know you guys have recorded some episodes. This is the Two Dumb Dads podcast.

We are going to. to play an exclusive clip for the listeners right now so they get a taste of it. Like I said, now that's not a thing that there's a lot of anymore. That now there's like, all right, there's no definitive, you will kill your kid by doing this. We're kind of figuring it out, going day by day. Like I said, my wife is a preschool teacher, a director of a preschool slash daycare. She had a sibling who's 10 years younger than her. She was an elementary education degree.

She's trained to be a teacher. She's been working in a preschool for 10 plus years at this point. She's a social worker. If there's anybody who is prepared to be a parent, it's my wife. And then there's me who was an only child, didn't, like, hated kids everywhere. I'm the person on the subway who sees somebody walk in with a crying baby. Like, oh, son of a bitch. Yeah, you are that guy.

Yeah, I am like the crabby asshole Are you still that guy now that you have a kid though No, I am like the fucking sap now Yeah Like I said that I scope out the people with a with a with a A stroller or something I'll sit right across to them I will stare into that that stroller with like

Oh look how cute the baby And just creep the shit out of the parents It's terrible It's crazy that changes right Like you go from like being annoyed by little kids To be like well no I get it I totally get you know You're doing the best you can do on the subway right now

Oh yeah with you Yeah and you look over the parents and they're like either one of the two things that's happening either they they give you that look of like I'm sorry and I just kind of like palmed by just I got you it's all good I got you or they look at you with disdain like don't fucking look at me this ain't see your problem but about looking at you that way my god when can we expect this guys I'm getting really excited any any firm dates yet yeah if you're listening to this episode you can find us out there in the world we should be able to find this podcast hopefully on iTunes we so haven't been

officially approved yet but hopefully there and of course our website at any RSS catchers I believe our current website is something along the lines of Too Dumb Dads at Libson.com or something like that or Libson.com. Yep, that sounds like Facebook. You can find us. So the Facebook page is fully up and running.

It's got some pictures. It's got some fun stuff up there. We'll link to this episode. It's linked to somewhere in the skies and you'll find the audio episode launch up there. Probably later this week, I would say, am I too far ahead on that, Chris Moss? I think you might be too far behind.

I think we should be up as soon as this podcast gets going. That's very awesome. And it doesn't make us sound smart, Ryan. Oh, yes. That's the glory of editing, right? Yeah. Again, that is the Two Dumb Dads podcast. I cannot wait to hear this, guys.

And I cannot wait to have you on again to talk movies. I love that we're doing this. I hope the listeners appreciate it. And I hope they enjoyed Star Wars, The Last Jedi. So again, guys, thank you for joining me on Somewhere in the Skies. Oh, thank you. You must unlearn what you have learned. Why not?

Or do not?