Somewhere in the Skies - BONUS | Mysteries of Hawai'i with Lopaka Kapanui

Episode Date: October 26, 2023

Lopaka Kapanui is a native Hawaiian Master Storyteller. He is the founder of the Mysteries of Hawai'i Ghost Tours, which has recently been voted Best Ghost Tour in the United States by USA Today. For over 25 years, he has continued the oral tradition of his ancestors by sharing stories of the past. From legends of the Night Marchers to the Sharkman of Kāneana Cave. From ghostly tales of Morgan's Corner to terrifying encounters with a faceless woman. You'll hear the incredible events that led Lopaka to a life intertwined with the supernatural and unexplained and what it all means both for those who live, visit, or continue to haunt the islands of Hawai'i and beyond. Special thanks to Tanya Ululani Kapanui, Jane Moore, Bishop Museum, and PBS Hawai'i. Read Ryan’s Articles by CLICKING HERE Opening Theme Song, "Ephemeral Reign" by Per Kiilstofte Copyright © 2023 Ryan Sprague. All rights reserved. Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/somewhere-in-the-skies. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Lopaka, thank you so much for joining me on somewhere in the skies. Oh, no problem. It's an honor because I'm a lot. I've seen it advertised, posted all over the place. So this is very cool. Oh, thank you. Well, it's cool to be here, man. I mean, this has been my temporary home for about five months now.

So I have to thank you, first and foremost, for having me here. But it's been an incredible experience. I've been here a few times now. But having the luxury of time on my side, I finally was able to just ingrain myself into everything here. It's such a cultural, supernatural melting pot, I guess is a good way I put it, of different cultures and beliefs and mythologies and folklore coming together, which I think is unlike anywhere else, at least here in the United States. So I guess let's kind of start from the beginning. I'd love to hear the origin story of how you came to be the master storyteller that I know you as amongst many other things. But how did your journey start with ghost storytelling, with your mentor and everything in between?

Give us the, yeah, give us the story. Yikes. You know, really it started when I was about six or seven years old. I was having some health problems. And I was adopted into this Portuguese family. And so the deal was after the adoption that my biological mother would not have anything to do with me, like she'd stay out of everything. But about at six or seven, when I started to go use the bathroom to do number one, there was blood.

Blood was coming out. And so it turns out I had to be hospitalized so they could clean my kidneys out. And in the process of that, they had to contact my biological mother for the medical records. And I vaguely remember being in the hospital and seeing her coming toward me in like this Chinese top that the women wore, even though she was Hawaiian. I remember crying because I didn't know who that was. And my adopted parents telling me that, you know, this is your real mom. And, yeah, I could, even at that age, I could see it.

It hurt her pretty bad, you know, because she cried and she left. And then it kind of went away into a bit of a remission. And then when it came back, it was really bad. So I think I spent at least four or five months in the hospital. And so I made four. friends with this kid, his name was Scotty Boyd. And he was well known back then. He was on this bank commercial.

And they filmed him sitting on a fence at a ranch on the Big Island. And his father was playing the ukulele. And he was, Scotty was singing this Hawaiian song. And so everybody knew who he was. So I was surprised to see him in the hospital. And I didn't know why he was there. And so I remember the one thing he'd always do is he'd always wake up to the foreme and he'd say, friend, friend, wake up, let's go.

And so he never knew my name. He just called me. friend and so we always went to play and this was for a while and then one evening after dinner I'm laying in my bed and I see the doctor come into our ward at the children's hospital along with his parents and a couple of other family members and I remember the mother looking at me like with this death stare and she closes the curtain like this and I hear the doctor saying something to them and then I hear crying and moaning and wailing and you know so I'm like oh wow what's going on?

And pretty soon they all leave, the doctor, Scotty's parents, and the curtain's still closed. But the way the ward was lit, I could see Scotty's silhouette, like, you know, just lying on the bed like this. And I see him sit up, and I see him kick his legs over to the bed this way.

Then he comes around to the curtain on my side, and I see his little, you know, part of his shadow, like from up to here. He's like, friend, hey, let's go play, friend, let's go. Let's go play. It's like, okay. So I kick my legs over this way to get off the bed. And every day while I was there, my adopted father's mom came to visit me every day. But usually she came during the day, but this was strange because it was in the evening.

As I'm trying to get off the bed, I suddenly hear her voice from behind me. She says, don't get off that bed. I turned around, I said, why? You know, that's my friend. I'm going to go play. She says, no. You stay on that bed. Don't get off.

I said, why, Grandma? She said, didn't you pay attention to what was going on? That boy died. He just died. That's his ghost. If your feet get off this bed and it touches the floor and you go play with him, you'll never come back. You stay on that bed. And no matter what you hear, you don't do it.

And so for a couple of more minutes, you know, I can see a shadow and I can hear him saying, friend, friend, come on, what's wrong? Let's go play. And the whole time I'm laying there like this and I'm looking at my grandma Lucy and she's going Just like that And then it stopped A short time later this 11 year old kid who was in our ward Somehow he went down snares and he got a bottle of Coca-Cola and so this was in the early 70s Late 60s early 70s

But that's I always joke about it but that's when coke really was the real thing And so a bunch of us snuck down the stairway and we were all taking citizens of coke and it was bad for me because of my kidney condition. And I got sick. I remember throwing up. I remember having to be tied to the bed so they could do the intravenous thing. And then from what I was told, they had to do an operation. And so I overhear the doctor and the nurse talking to my adopted parents. I guess I'm coming out of it. And I overhear them say, you know, we lost them for a couple of seconds there. You know, but, you know, he came back. But what I remember of the experience is lying on the operating table in this dark room,

and we're the only spotlight. And just outside the perimeter of the spotlight, I can hear three people arguing. I can hear my grandmother. I can hear Scotty Boyd, and I can hear the voice of this woman. And the woman has to do with the story that Grandma Lucy told me one day about when she was a teenage girl living in Wainaku on the Big Island. And she had a crush on this guy named Philip. And so a bunch of them were like walking through this riverbed. It was dry.

And the river is famous for drownings. Because when the waters are running, it's torrential. It's really bad. And everybody knows that in that river when the greenery, the foliage around the river is greenish yellow color. And the water is still. And it sort of has that same sheen of that same color. They say that the Mo'uahina, the lizard goddess, is home and that you're not supposed to go in there. But she said, yeah, we weren't worried because, you know, no water, it's dry, but they come upon a circle of rocks that's got some river water in it.

And they're looking around it like this, and they noticed that around it are like, you know, golden necklaces, rings, earrings, pocket watches. And so Grandma Lucy says, she and her friends and her sisters just start gathering all the stuff. And that boy Philip, she had a crush on. He's like, no, no, no, what are you doing? It's like, oh, you know, we can take this home to our mom and maybe, you know, pawned for money. And Phillips says, no. He was like, don't you know, this is what belongs to all the people who drowned here. And some actually got, you know, sucked out into the ocean and they're probably stuck under some rocks.

You're like, you don't take stuff that belongs to the dead. And so they didn't. And they decided to leave. And as they're walking up the bank of the dried river, Grandma Lucy says, one of the girls in a group, she's like screaming, bloody murder, like hysterical, just screaming. And they turn around, they said, in that circle of rocks with, what? What was left of the river water is this tall, dark Hawaiian lady, no clothes on, long hair. And she's pointing like this, but they don't know who she's pointing.

I was like, oh, my God, oh, my God. Turns out she's pointing at that guy Philip. And so Grandma Lucy says her eyes became like cat eyes, like slits. And then first her tongue was red, and then it became black and scaly. And so they took off, and they knew who that was. That was the woman of that place. and she says Later on toward the end of the month

she finds out through the grapevine that when the river came back that they found that boy Philip's body like further down the stream like toward the ocean and that his lips were swollen over like somebody was literally trying to suck something out of it

and that there were a claw marks all over him so they weren't sure if it's because of his body how it hit the rocks or if something actually so as I'm having this operation What I remember is being on the table, spotlight, right outside the perimeter of the spotlight. Like I said, I hear Grandma Lucy's voice, Scotty, and then the voice of that woman who was in the river that Grandma Lucy told me about. And they're all vying for who takes me.

And Scotty Boyd says, he's my friend, I'll take him. We can go play. And the Hawaiian woman's voice says, I will take him. He'll be mine. And then my grandma Lucy says, no, no, he's mine for life. taken. And some unearthly voices for life then. But in Hawaiian, you know, it said, Nola-ila-keola. It is life. And supposedly according to the doctor, that's when I sort of came out of it. And so after that, nothing was ever the same. I began to see, hear, feel, all kinds of

things. Wow. I mean, I can only imagine you had a brush with death at such an early age and communicating and kind of tapping into something that people spend their whole lives trying to do and find yet it hit you at such a young time in your life where you're still learning and growing and wow that's very powerful i mean a lot of people don't ever get that yeah well that i knew i knew there was going to be a good origin story um but how about how you came to do what i know you as and met you through and that's your tours and your ghost storytelling. I know, um, you know, I, I remember reading Glenn Grant's work very early on, uh, even before I, I'd learned about you. And my girlfriend is the one who said, oh, you know who Glenn Grant is. Well, here's Glenn Grant

2.0, you know, the, the reboot in the updated version. So yeah, can you give us maybe a little, um, an idea of how that came to be? First, I didn't think it was real. I woke up to this blinding light, and I was transported to another place. Pluto TV! Then I heard a voice. Come with me if you want to live.

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No credit cards or alien encounters necessary. Pluto TV, stream now, pay never. So I think in, I want to say 93, late 93, I was working at a hotel in Waikiki, and the front desk people were talking about this history professor from the university who did a ghost tour in downtown Honolulu. And they were talking about all his stories and, you know, the fascination with it. And the following Wednesday, coincidentally, I remembered it, so I went on that tour. And the funny thing is everything I heard him talk about was everything I basically

learned growing up more so from my mom. And I thought, wow, how is that impossible? You know, but he had, he backed it up with, you know, historical references, documented accounts, photographs. And so I was fascinated. And the following Wednesday, we're at Hula practice. I was a hula dancer for my cousin, Kiyoneng Nunes, and it was all male halal. And during one of the breaks, he says, oh, by the way, he says, you know, I, I, I'm a

A friend of mine, my really good friend, Glenn Grant, he does this ghost tour out to Hawaii and I, so, you know, we're going to be part of it. We're going to be the cultural part, and we'll present Hula. And he said, it'll make sense because, you know, it coincides with the history of where we're going. And so that's how I got to meet him, because we did that part of the tour.

And that went on for a while, and then one weekend, it was a Thursday that Keone called Glenn Grant at the last minute and said, you know, he can't do it. He's got to go to work. in Washington, D.C. And Glenn says, well, I don't know you're part of the tour because I leave that up to you. He says, well, you know, my cousin Lopaka and Kili, you know, they come all the time, so he knows it. And so, you know, I just got thrown into the fire and Saturday came and I did my cousin's part of the tour.

And I think it was the following Monday or Tuesday he called me at home. He said, listen, you're pretty good. And he says, you know, don't say anything to your cousin, but, you know, would you mind if I, if I gave you some work here and there, would you mind? I'm like, yes, sure. So he had me do things like when his history class was studying the Massey trial. He had me portray one of the detectives on the trial and speak in character. And so he'd do things like that.

And then finally, I guess he wanted to do more things or other things than just the ghost tour. And so that's how he ended up becoming sort of like his apprentice to take over those. those coast tours. And what was unique about his training is that there was no note taking. I couldn't write anything down. You know, it had to be like from mouth to ear. Which again surprised me because that's how I learned everything from my mom. You know, the first, the first night I sat down on the floor like right in front of her and I'm like, you know, pen and paper pad. She's like, what is that? Like, I'm going to take note. She's like, no. Put that away. It's like, I talk, you listen.

that is the Hawaiian way of passing on history, right? That before the westernization sort of began here, it was oral tradition. Yeah, no written language. And so the famous phrase is, Maikana Ke Ike, you know, from watching you learn. Crazy. Yeah, I can't even imagine, you know, growing up, like, I had to write everything down. Well, that brings up a good point, too, is, uh,

The history of Hawaii is based solely on that oral tradition, which these stories are a big part of. But is that a lot of pressure for someone like you to have to remember names, dates, times, incidents, everything in between? Like, how do you go about doing that? You know, it's just a natural part of our life. And that's what we spent most of our time doing. My wife and I is, you know, just online researching documents, buying tons and tons. of books, going through oral histories, and making sure we get the dates, the times, the name's correct. And then I have to take all of that and put that together in a story, you know, so it all

makes sense. And so no one in the audience thinks, well, that's just made up. Oh, wait, he said it happened in 1814. Okay, it must have happened. And so I thought I was a stickler for, you know, for detail and the correct information. But my wife, who does a lot of the research, she's like, OCD about it. But, you know, it works in our favor. Does that make sense? Yeah. Okay. Absolutely. Okay. So let's get to some of those stories. I know, um, besides just your tours that you give, you've written a few books as well. And, um, one of those involved Morgan's Corner, a part of, uh, the Poly Highway, right? Am I correct? Um, and this, it's beautiful, but it's also very eerie to be in and look at. So would you mind giving us a little idea of, um,

the history of Morgan's Corner, what it means to you specifically? Well, the history of Morgan's Corner has to do with the history of the Morgan Estate, which was owned by Dr. James Morgan. But because he lived on a corner, a hairpin turn, a lot of times are accidents, so he'd have to go grab his bag and, you know, walk to the corner and help out. And Mrs. Wilder also lived on the house on the opposite corner. And so when she was sick, he'd go over there and, you know, make sure she was fine. And that story is that I believe it was in the 50s that some robbers broke into Mrs. Wilder's house.

And they tied her to the chair. And when they gagged her, I guess it was either too tight or too much material in it. So she choked. And so these men were sent to prison. And they were spared from hanging because right about that time is when they abolished death by hanging. and so they just lived most of their natural lives in jail. And somehow, and I'm not sure when it happened, but somehow Morgan's Corner became the place where

if you parked your car late at night with your boyfriend or girlfriend, and if you waited, you'd hear tapping on the roof for scratching. And we know the famous story because there's one like that practically in every state. Boyfriend, girlfriend doing homework. A car won't start. Boyfriend says the classic words, you stay here, babe. I'll be right back.

As she's waiting, she hears it. Tap. Tap. Tap. Tap. And then long, scratch across the roof as well. And tap. Tap. Tap. And so it goes on all night, and she falls asleep. And when she wakes up in the morning, it's a police officer knocking on the window. And she rolls the window down and says, officer, where's my boyfriend? And all he says is, ma'am, come with me. Opens the car, helps her out like this, walks her to the squad car.

and all the while she's saying Officer, where's my boyfriend? Did he come back yet? And as he's about to put her in the backseat of his squad car, she just happens to turn around and she's losing her mind, hysterical, bloody murder, screaming. Because there he is.

There's a branch that was hanging over their car. His feet are tied to it and his body's swinging back and forth, fingernails scratching the roof. His throat from ear to ear dripping blood tap. tap. In terms of Morgan's Corner on the Polly Highway,

the Polly Highway itself has a very sorted history and a lot of stuff that goes along with that. Would you mind touching on that? Not only is it a terrifying thing to drive on, I try to avoid it every time I'm here because I hate heights. But, yeah, could you give us maybe a little bit of your knowledge of the history of how the highway came to be and kind of what happened after it was built or while it was being built.

One of the more recent famous stories is Lepali at the lookout is where the conclusion of the Battle of Nuuanu happened. And it's where Kamehamehameh are the great face the combined forces of Maui and Oahu, who were about 9,000. He came with the fleet about 20,000. And so by the time the battle concluded, people were just trying to get out of there. and there was a path going down this way. And I guess it was gridlock, so people began to accidentally push each other over the cliff. And then, of course, Commemones, Warriors did the rest.

You know, just pushed them right over. There's that. And there's also this thing where you can't bring pork over the pulley. And so the story goes that the goddess Pele met this guy who her family told her was not the right guy, but she got involved with him anyway. And because of their disagreements, they had a tempestuous relationship.

She was unsuccessful at killing him. And so their deal was that he would stay on his side of the island, which is the windward side. And she'd stay on her side, which is the leeward side. And so, you know, the ancient TRO is that none shall cross into the other's path. And so this is why you're not supposed to bring any sort of port from the windward to the leeward side through the polytunnel. but more specifically that road at the lookout

that's where you can't bring it because you're breaking the pack so in 1997 my late boss Glenn grant convinced the Japanese company well they convinced him to be their spokesman but they specifically wanted to film the commercial at the lookout and so they didn't really tell him what the product was

but when he's at the lookout and they're about to roll camera the guy walks up to him with this big bag and takes out this slab of pork in a package and says, okay, you hold this up like this, and then you stay, these are words. And he looks at the script, he's like, I'm not saying that. He goes, oh, so much money, you know, you should say. No, no, this is disrespectful. They asked him why. He said, the marker over there where you want me to stand, it's not good, because I'll be

still in Pelle's territory holding up the slab of pork, and he explains the legend. And so they're arguing back and forth, you know, holds the pork, no, holds the pork, no. Finally, eyewitnesses say that this wind, you can hear it howling, like its waves crashing on the shore. You can hear it coming up the side of the pulley. It comes over.

It sweeps through the whole area. It decimates everything. But when it gets to Glenn Grand, it just rips the slab of pork out of his hands. And everybody sees the slab of pork going like this. And it shatters the lens of the million-dollar high-definition. camera just brah

and the whole Japanese crew is like oh the thing about the tunnel is when they were building it

the way the workers were situated on the top there were some lava tubes that they didn't know were there so some of the men

actually fell into the lava tube and it was so deep and so tight they couldn't get them out so there's some workers entombed

in the side of that panel that tunnel at the pulley. Oh, wow. So tour bus drivers, everybody has said that during certain times of the year, they're coming out of the tunnel, and there's some guy covered in red dirt like this, thumbing a ride. Like I said, if it weren't scary enough just driving on it because of the sheer height and steepness

and you've got the, you know, the mist coming through, it's stuff like that. Yeah. It just amplifies it, you know. Just makes it worse. one of the other places that I love going when I come here is Kanye King. Oh, yeah. On the west side, right?

Yeah. And again, you know, I post things on Instagram or Facebook or whatever as the tourists being like, this is the legend that happened here. And I'm always wrong. And thank God for someone like you who can tell me the actual legends and stories. So Kaniana Kave, it's. this deep black void in the middle of a mountain right across from the ocean. Beautiful, but it's got a pretty interesting history that's not so much beautiful, I would say.

Would you mind running us through that? Well, you know, during World War II, the Navy commissioned a few divers to go through Kana Cave, you know, diving tank and whatever, to find out where it comes out. And so the person told me that a lot of times it was really hairy because, you know, they would have to train themselves not to panic when they were in deep, dark spaces. But it basically came out on the windward side. And so I remember the gentleman telling me this account, because his father was one of those divers. He says, so, you know, what's the history of the cave?

Because he says, I was thinking about trying to do it myself. And so the story goes that the shark got Como Elii, who's the principal eldest brother of the goddess Pele, is swimming in his shark form. through that area and when he looks at the beach he's a beautiful woman he falls in love with her appears on shore as a tall

muscular man of some sort of high status and he's walking around describing the woman he saw and everyone says oh that's Calais and she lives over there and so they meet they fall in love and they lay together and they have a son

and at that point Kamuhu'ali tells Kalai I must now tell you that I am Kamuhu'a Li'i the brother of Pele the king of sharks. He said, I have to go back. But while I'm gone, as you raise this boy, you will call him Nanawe,

and you will not feed him meat. I fear that if you do, he may begin to develop a taste for some other kind of flesh. And, you know, the woman says, okay. And so in the culture, the boy stays in the women's house and eats with the women until he's about seven. and then they gird him with the loincloth, the mallow.

And then from then on he stays in the Haleimua, in the men's house, and learns everything from the men. And so at that point, Narnawi's grandfather begins to feed him meat, because only men could eat meat. And one day at the beach, Kali is sitting there, and she's watching her, you know, Nanaway just frolicking in the waves, and she sees something weird on his back, and she says, wait. And he comes, and she turns them around, and there's a little indentation of a,

shark's mouth right in his back. And from then on, she has him wear like a shawl or some sort of cape. And so as he grows up, he's very competitive. But his mom tries to keep him at home tending the garden in front of the grass hut. And some kids are walking by from another village and he sees them and he says, Hui, Iha nooko. Where are you folks going? And the kids merrily say,

we're going to the ocean and then nowe says he says he says he says be careful there might be sharks later on the afternoon

same kids coming there's one less they're wailing and crying and I guess Nanaway affects sympathy because he says oh way what happened the children say

One of us has been eaten, finished by a shark. Ah, Nanaoui says, he said I've told you before to be careful. Cautionary tale. But one day he's in a serious digging contest, and he's intent on winning and his shawl flies up over his head and everybody's horrified to see the gaping mouth of a shark.

And so they beat him, they bound him, they tied him to a stake, took him up into the mountain, and they were going to bake him alive in the underground oven. And at that point, he calls for his father to come and save him. And so this tidal wave appears out of nowhere, rushes up the valley, peels out the flames, grabs the Nauai, back into the ocean, and no one sees him after that. And so this...

This story begins to circulate in the early 1900s about travelers walking by the cave late at night, and when they peer in, there's a fire, and an old bent man with ratty white hair is tending it with a stick like this, meat sizzling over the fire. And he invites to traveler in and gives them their fill of meat and gives them Abba to drink until they're drunk. And then he changes into the shark, and he kills them, but he doesn't consume them. he lets the body lie there until it becomes putrid and then he eats them and so that's only one of a myriad of stories associated with that cave

see and if I had known that before I went in there man changed everything but but it's so there's just something about it it draws you in which is part of it you know you get this almost

magnetic feeling of I want to go in and look deeper, and that's what they want. That's what he wants, you know? And that's why he dragged. It's just, oh, yeah. One of the most terrifying stories that I have heard coming out of Hawaii actually drives in Japan. And again, that's the beauty of this place, is it is this supernatural melting pot of different folklore coming together, almost like smuggling certain supernatural phenomenon into another. place and for me it's the faceless woman oh yeah this just terrifies me um faceless woman at the drive-in i know

know is one of the more popular ones but yeah what can you share with us about the stories of the faceless women we know the famous story from japan on the akasaka path where the traveler sees a woman on the side of the road crying pitifully and when he goes to help her she turns around and reveals she has no face then runs down the road and sees a soba stand on the side of the side of the road and telling the proprietor about what happened. He says, oh, I like this, and, you know, he has no face. The great thing about our melting pot culture is that, you know, a lot of people brought their religion, their food, which is what we're all about, but they also bought their ghosts.

And so in 1959, I believe an article was posted in the newspaper. We say posted today. Actually, it's published. about several reports regarding a woman with no face who's haunting the bathroom at the old Wailai Drive-in, which has since been demolished in 1994. And so everybody knows they went to that bathroom, they saw her in a white summer yucata,

and she just pulled her hair back and revealed she had no face. And just everybody from housewives to longshoremen, to politicians, to people working in the Attorney General's office, have all told me their own experience about this, this no per table. So there's something to it, especially when it comes from people who are not educated

or designed to believe in this kind of thing. And they tell you the story. And their eyes are tearing up. So they saw something. Something happened. So my story is, you know, I'm doing the Ghost Hunter's bus tour and Glenn is doing his thing.

Friday, Saturday nights, they had dinner and movie at the old store. And so we're at the Kahala Times, and I'm telling the faceless woman's story, and we're walking back to the bus. And an elderly Japanese woman, I saw her standing like, you know, a little bit in the back of the group, and she had her blue, blue coiffed hair and wearing a bowling shirt and Bermuda

shorts and these, these Zori slippers. She's watching me like this, and she's going, and so as I'm walking to the bus, I see her walking up toward me, I'm like, good evening, you know, how are you? And she says, you know, story is all wrong. I said, oh, is it? She said, you have a couple minutes. I said, yeah, yeah, but I got to go. if you can make it quick or we can meet somewhere else.

She goes, no, no, no, no, one more time. I said, okay. She proceeds to tell me that she and her friend who grew up together, their thing as little girls and, you know, teenage girls was their wedding, how they were going to be dressed, and, you know, she said, oh, fancy kimono and everything. And her friend says, I only want a white summer yucato with embossed bamboo designs. Very simple. And so they graduate high school.

She doesn't hear from the friend. And suddenly, She hears that the friend married some guy from Japan and that they had five kids and he died young, about late 20s. And after he died, the friend realizes that this guy is from a well-to-do family in Japan, but he came here to make his own life, his own money. And so now she's left with all this inheritance. And hearing this story, she's like, wow, oh, she's doing good.

And then one day she's walking up Wai Avenue And there's her friend across the street wearing a very nice kimono, you know, the collar down in the back and the obi and the slippers. And she sees her friend and she walks across the street and goes up to her and says, eh, eh. And the friend goes, how are you? You're not hot wear that kind kimono in the middle of the day over here in Hawaii. No. Oh, why?

Why you wear him like that? Because I can. and you know can and walks off later on she finds out that that friend of hers is supposed to distribute the money

evenly amongst her kids but she keeps it for herself and so the kids are they're just mad they go to the family accountant and you know we want some of the money and then we're going to leave we're going to move to California and never come back she's stingy

and they do exactly that and the accountant takes the rest of the money and so back then they had something called Tanomoshi it's where everybody contributed to this this money pot and then on credit you could take whatever you needed and so she was part of that group and when she went and she showed up everybody at the tanamoshi looked at her and said oh you cannot be here but why not we heard about what happened with your husband and your kids

and how you dishonor the name of your husband and your kids and they told her you have to leave you have no honor. You have lost face. And no one sees her after that. And so this woman concludes by telling me that where the Wai Lai driving is now is where they had a house. And she said one night down the road they can hear someone crying pitifully. And she said, my husband, one Japanese guy, he's about six feet, three inches tall. Big. He jumps out of bed, put on his Bermuda shorts, his watercress boots. And he's yelling, And so I run after him. He's dragging me down the stairs, like holding his leg like this.

He's like, let me go. I got to go yell at that lady. That lady told her to shut up. She's waking up the whole neighborhood. And the woman says, no, no, you cannot. Why? Look, she is yokai. She's not human.

And so up the road, they see a woman walking slowly like this in what looks like a white kimono, long black hair. And at the top of the street she turns around and floats back down until she's right in front of the woman's house. And the woman said, And that Yokai, look at me. It's my friend, the one I told you about. And she looked at me and she said,

Esko, look, I am no longer human. I have lost face. So the lady says right then her friend, the face disappears, and it's just an orb of flesh. And so she says to me, you see why your story is wrong. There's nothing to do with the one from Japan. Everything to do with my friend. That's why she haunt the drive-in thierro. Is that I would assume that drive-in's gone.

It's gone. Yeah. So there's like a public storage building. Okay. Which, it's just creepy. Yeah, I can imagine. Have you been in there? I haven't been in there, but I've heard all the stories about them seeing shadows on the security camera.

Storage lockers that are secure just flying open, you know. Yeah. Yeah. So speaking of, you know, the cultural, supernatural melting pot, the Philippines play another big role here as well. And I remember going to an event of yours at the Honolulu Museum of Art. and you telling a story about possessions. Now, this is a whole other level. I'm used to hearing about, you know,

the possessions of the exorcist and these very Catholic or Christian versions of these stories. But do you have any cool stories about possession that you could share with us? Oh, yeah. There's one. So I get a lot of phone calls for a lot of things, like how to put curse on someone. You know, I get that call.

I'm like, what are you calling me for? A curse. And it's always for like, you know, petty reasons. And then a while ago I got a call from a nice Hawaiian couple, and they claimed to me that her daughter was possessed. And I said, I'm not an exorcist, so I gave them a couple of phone numbers to people who were, I thought were qualified.

And so a few months later, they called me back, and they said, you know, we called the people, the number you gave us, but it turns out an exorcism is a lot of red tape. There's a lot of channels they have to go through, and, you know, they were telling us actually has to, go to the Pope before it's, you know, approved. And over the phone, they said, and, you know, the priests, the numbers you gave us, those guys are just, they're mean.

They're very mean, and they're supposed to believe in God. I said, oh, I'm sorry to hear that. They said, would you please just come to our house and just talk to our daughter? I'm like, I told you, I'm not qualified to do an exorcism. And I said to them, and even if I was, I wasn't sure I would do it. They said, no, no, no, just please. I'm like, all right, you know, and I always remember. regret it later. And so I get to the house. It's in the west side of the island called Kapulei.

And newer developments, and nice, nice Hawaiian couple. And we meet in the kitchen because they let me in through the back door to the kitchen. And the story is when I get to the kitchen, you can tell they're nervous and they point up the steps and there's the first landing and the steps go this way, the second landing, you know, and then the hallway. And so they point up the steps, they said, It's the first landing, that door right there to the left. Just knocking the door, you know, our daughter is in there. So I'm walking at the stits, and I turn around like, you guys aren't coming. So knock on the door, door opens.

Beautiful young Hawaiian girl, doesn't say hello. Plops herself on the bed, and she's on the laptop like this, and, you know, there's awkward silence. And so finally I say, um, so your parents tell me that they think you're possessed. And she's like, yeah. So I'm like, so why do they think you're possessed? And she's like this and she sits up. And she goes, and back on the laptop. And so what she's showing me is that her entire room is decorated with everything twilight from that movie.

Wallpaper, pillowcases, sheets, blankets. The wallpaper itself is colored in a deep violet color. And so I'm looking around. I'm like, are you serious? your parents did you're possessed because of Twilight and she's like this

she says well that and the other thing I said I don't mean to be Mahāoi to be nosy but what's the other thing

and she says I came out to them I told him who I am I'm a lesbian and I have siblings who are you know

gay lesbian transgender and I just thought to myself man that sucks And I looked at it. I said, you know, I'm sorry to hear that. I mean, that actually breaks my heart. So I took out a business card, put it on a table, like right next to her door on the inside. I said, listen, anytime you want to talk about it, we can talk about this. It doesn't have to be what your parents are talking about. My wife and I will come meet you and you just say whatever you want. You know, we'll buy you dinner.

And her demeanor changed and she says, thank you very much. I appreciate that. And I introduced myself. I said, hi. By the way, I'm Lopaka. And she says, I'm Sienna. You said, thank you, Sienna. I went downstairs, and the parents are in the kitchen. They were like this. Did anything happen? Did she physically assault you? Did the room smell like sulfur?

Were there things floating around? Did you hear voices? I said, no. I said, she's perfectly fine. Normal, everyday college girl. You guys probably need to go get some family counseling or therapy. I mean, if you have a pastor or anything like that or somebody certified, that wouldn't be my sister.

suggestion and I told him, I said, Sienna's just this totally normal girl. At that point, the wife nudges the husband out of the way and she grabs me like this. And she pulls me close up to her and her demeanor is she's dead serious. And she says, no, you don't understand. The thing that's possessing our daughter is Sienna. Her name is Carolyn. So I've been on the island for a few months now. I've seen a few full moons come and go.

And, you know, a lot of us when we think of full moons, we think of werewolves. But not here in Hawaii. Full moons represent something completely different, something that is integral, I think, to the fabric of the islands. And that's the night marchers. And I will tell you right now, man, there have been some nights where there's full moons were out. And I thought I saw, heard things, but I don't know. I can't explain it, but I'd love to hear. Could you tell us a little about the history of the night marchers

and what they're said to do here in modern day? Yeah. The night marchers have particular moon phases. The four common ones are, as the moon is going dark, Kane Lono Malimuku. And those are all different types of night marcher processions. And the way it works is that in our history, there were chiefs. We call them Ali'i that were so high-ranking and so sacred that even when you were around them, you couldn't be clothed.

If those high-ranking chiefs had kids, their kids could not eat from their same plate. And so when these high-ranking people went to go do number one and number two, it couldn't be buried in the earth. They'd had to put it in a bowl or calabash of some kind and sail it out to like the horizon and then dump it for fear of sorcery. And so when these people came out during the day, everybody had to prostrate and lie face down, hands by in the back of their neck like this. And if the sun cast their shadow on your body, you'd be killed. If they happen to be wearing clothing that brushed up against you, you'd be killed. And so these high-ranking people were merciful to the commoners and only came out at night.

And so their warrior procession walks in front of them and sounds the conchels, sounds the drums, carry very red, bright torchlights so you can see them coming along the mountain ridge. And so when all of that is happening, that's sort of their warning to you that, hey, we're coming this way, so don't be here. And sometimes today, people don't see all of that. And there are a lot of stories

where a night march or procession comes upon a bunch of people like at the last minute, right on top of them. And so that's basically what it is now. They're doing the same job they did when they were alive. taking the same path. And so sitting here in Capellani Park, we are very near

one of the more active night marcher processions that comes right here and goes to the private girls' school right back there. Yeah, I remember going on one of your tours down towards Waikiki and walking and then learning we were in the actual path

of flipping night marchers probably went through. And that, again, was a moment where I just, I got chills, like, thinking, wow, this could have been the very place where that happened. It's incredible. It's incredible. I was wondering if you could tell us maybe the story about Peter Gregory. Oh, no. Hold on.

If you're willing to do that. Okay. Yeah. So why are child ghosts unique? And what happened to young Peter Gregory? The child ghosts are unique in the way that they passed because, uh, you know, they're not. in our history between 1853 and

84 we had a smallpox epidemic and it wiped out thousands of people a lot of them are kids and you can just imagine the suffering of those little not being able to understand why and questioning why is this happening

you know mom dad what did I do and a lot of times when they finally leave you know that's the most prevalent thought on their mind and that's basically what keeps them around after the bodies passed away. And so at Kauaihao Church, there were a lot of graves of children who didn't survive past, you know, nine, ten years old. And their pictures are on these porcelain things on the headstone, you know, and their eyes are just so, so soulful and, you know. And so the story goes that at the church every Christmas, the old Hawaiian ladies,

during that week of Christmas, they take presents to all the graves where all the children are buried. and, you know, decorate them with Christmas lights and little Christmas trees and small presents. And the security guard who told me this story said he was the one that would always help them every Christmas. Just bring a wagon or hold a presents. All the whole Hawaiian ladies would decorate the grave. And so near the preschool building, the Adobe building, is where Peter Gregory and Nalholla is buried. And his headstone is right up against this golden shower tree. And when I taught there, you know, the kids would love to sit around his grave.

And, you know, they would talk to him. And so he only lived to be nine years old. And so on that night, the security guard tells the ladies, he says, listen, I just took a job with the government. So this is my last night. The new security guard will be here tomorrow night and just introduce yourselves to him. And so that's what happens. The next night, the lady's putting the presents on Peter's grave.

And here comes the new security guard. Oh, aloha, how are you? We're the ladies from the church. And this is what we do every Christmas. And the security guard says, you, you, and you, get the F out of here right now. And they're stunned. They're like, what? He says, yeah, just, I don't care about your stupid tradition.

Just get the F out of here. And they're like, they're stunned. They don't understand. And to emphasize his point, he kicks one of the presents. And it spins furiously, and one of the sharp corners of the presence catches one of the old Hawaiian ladies, like right here. And now they're swearing at him in Hawaiian and probably cursing him. And so when they leave, that security guard goes, showed them.

When he comes back for his second round, three o'clock in the morning, and he comes upon Peter's grave, and the decorations are gone, he chuckles again to himself. Yeah, I showed them. He turns around and walks away. And as he turns to walk,

he stops like this, because this little Hawaiian boy with his hands on the man's hips is looking up at him and saying, why, mister? Why did you do that? The security guard looks down at the little boy and says, what do you mean, why?

And when he turns back around to go the other way, that same boy is right there. Why, mister? Why? The security guard thought he would be funny and, you know, flood that kid's eyes with his flashlight. But when he did that, the kid wasn't there. But the flashlight beam shines on Peter's picture on the headstone. And he realizes this is the same kid. And he says, after 17 years of being in the military and not fearing any man, here's something that he couldn't handle himself,

like physically grab it. And he was struck with fear. And so he began to run. And he said this black tornado whirlwind thing chased him across the graveyard. And he said, in it were all the voices of the kids going, why, Mr. Why? Why? And he said, I know it was small headstones

or whatever it had to be, but it felt like little hands grabbing onto my shoes and my socks and my ankles. And finally, when he got to the other end of the cemetery, he's all beat up. His clothes are torn. and he falls into this fetal position and says, No, leave me alone.

This flashlight shines on him and he looks up and it's a police officer. Who says, are you okay? Yeah. Yeah, I'm okay. You know, the people who live across the street here at the Elder Hospital, they're complaining about children screaming in the graveyard. Have you seen any kids? Security guard says, no, no, I haven't seen any kids.

The officer looks him up and down with a flashlight and says, what happened to you? when the ambulance comes and the security guard is sitting in the ambulance and he finally explains to the police officer what happened, the officer looks at him and says, you idiot.

You never go to a Hawaiian church and piss off the old Hawaiian ladies. They'll put a curse on you. He said, but for the graves of children, you never desecrate them. Ever. That's just stupid. Good for you. This story is told to me by that same,

security guard, who was a jerk that night. The surprise for the old Hawaiian ladies is the following day, when they come to Peter's grave to secretly decorate it, there's already presence there. And there's one card on it that simply says, so you never have to ask why. The name of the security guard is on it. My first time meeting you in person was at one of your tours down in Honolulu, and we went to Iolani Palace, probably one of the most visited. places on the island and we had an amazing tour my partner and her mother and I and I remember distinctly

when we walked up to the palace I knew nothing about it I didn't know the history and you began singing Aloha Oa and it stopped me in my tracks it was beautiful first of all but while you were singing it, I looked up into one of the windows of the palace. Distinctly, I remember up in a corner, and I saw what I believe was a figure, someone looking from a curtain, closing it, and walking away. And it kind of gave me chills, but I mean, I didn't want to interrupt you or doing prayer. And it wasn't until after that you told me that that was the exact room that the queen stayed in.

And I was speeches after that. I think for the rest of the tour that night, I was very quiet, which I didn't want to be, because I had so many questions for you. It was my first time meeting you, but I was just like, something hit me in that

moment, and I didn't realize that that was where the queen actually stayed in the palace. Would you mind giving us a little history about the queen and why she was in that room specifically and did I see the queen? I mean, I know you can't answer that 100% proof positive, but

yeah, could you give us a little history about that? Yeah, so she was definitely a woman before her time and she as she writes it in her diary, became queen against her will. Because when it was offered to her, she didn't want to do it. And that's because her brother,

who was the king before her, came back from San Francisco in the USS Charleston. And two blocks away from the palace was the port. Now it's all landfill. And so when the ship arrived, his body was in a casket. And so you can imagine the shock. And so when everybody realized that, the businessmen who were the ones that were going to overthrow her

and accuser of treason told her, you have to take the throne right now. And she took it. And so when she designed her constitution, these men, American businessman didn't like it because she was going to allow things that they didn't think would benefit them. And she was going to allow, I believe she was going to allow women to vote and all citizens of the kingdom to vote. And so the short story is there were revolutionists who had a cachet of weapons that belonged on the other side of the island. But somehow it mysteriously appeared in her garden. And she was accused of treason.

And so short story again, rather than see these Hawaiians lose their lives, she abdicated the throne on the condition that the circumstances surrounding her being overthrown would be investigated and that the findings would be in her favor, that she did nothing wrong. But didn't happen that way. And so while she was in prison, she was in that room on the second floor up in the corner. And she had a bed, she had water, bread, and she was only allowed to go out at night. but escorted by a guard. And so you can imagine the humiliation

of now being a prisoner in your own palace. And so a lot of people have felt her, have heard her, and even more people have seen her while they're in that room or sometimes when they're just walking by and they look up and, you know, there she is. But the song I sang that night

was the song that she composed while she was in there, while she was in prison. I definitely think I experienced something. Yeah. And I hope I did. I know you did. You probably did see her.

I'll tell you that. But for me, when I go up in that room to the imprisonment chamber and I see the quilt that she made herself while she was in prison, I'm done. I can't be in there. You know, I just have a hard time. I can look at it for a second and then I have to leave. Storytelling, ghost stories in particular.

It's not just about scaring people. That's a big aspect of it. It's enticing. It's fun. But why do you do what you do? Is there some overall goal or some meaning to it that you try to bring through telling these ghost stories? You know, it sounds strange because, you know, I am known for telling ghost stories. But my goal is to change people's lives in a way that they, when they leave the storytelling event,

it sort of makes them pause and start to reexamine them. wow, you know, if I'd have done this or said this to this person, would they not have ended up like the ghost in that story? Yeah. You know? And just people take a look at themselves and just say, you know, I should start treating my son a lot better so he doesn't end up like that kid. Absolutely.

I think I've always looked at ghost storytelling as cautionary tale. Yeah. I've said that a few times tonight, but I think you're right. When you can put yourself into that situation, you have to learn something. Yeah. Yeah. You know, and also to make people look at their mortality, wow, what am I going to do while I'm still here? Yeah. You know, so that doesn't happen to me. Yep. Yeah. And I think, you know, the beauty of that of ghost storytelling or looking into the paranormal or the supernatural, we can all find something in common in such a divisive time in our history right now. We're all going to die. Yeah. You know, and we have to face that and embrace that and know. hopefully that it's just kind of the beginning, I don't think. Yeah, it's just, you know, death has to happen so life can begin in you.

While you're alive, while you're still here, make it a point, your family, your friends, make it a point to tell them how much you love them. It's important because don't wait until you're on your deathbed to do it, do it now.