Somewhere in the Skies - Clayton Morris: The UAP Task Force, Mainstream Media, and Disclosure

Episode Date: October 12, 2020

On episode 182 of SOMEWHERE IN THE SKIES, Ryan is joined by former Fox News anchor, Clayton Morris, to discuss the controversial topic of mainstream and social media and its insidious influences on our everyday lives. Whether it's politics, race, gender, or beliefs, how do these twenty-four hour news cycles and social media platforms feed off of our insecurities and grow more prosperous and powerful by the day? Morris also describes his frustrating, but successful attempts of getting the UFO issue covered in the mainstream media and how the entire landscape of the UFO topic has changed in the past few years. Ryan and Morris then recall the extraordinary Kecksburg UFO incident and wrap things up covering Morris's new Youtube series, The Paranormal Post. Learn more about Clayton Morris at: www.claytonmorris.com Subscribe to the Paranormal Post by CLICKING HERE Patreon: www.patreon.com/somewhereskies Website: www.somewhereintheskies.com YouTube Channel: CLICK HERE Official Store: CLICK HERE Order Ryan's Book by CLICKING HERE Twitter: @SomewhereSkies Instagram: @SomewhereSkiesPod Watch Mysteries Decoded for free at www.CWseed.com Episode edited by Jane Palomera Moore Opening Theme Song, "Ephemeral Reign" by Per Kiilstofte SOMEWHERE IN THE SKIES is part of the eOne podcast network. To learn more, CLICK HERE Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/somewhere-in-the-skies. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This episode is brought to you by Netflix. Most valuable promotions in Netflix are hosting a blockbuster triple headliner Saturday, May 16th. Rhonda Rousey returns to face fellow woman's MMA pioneer Gina Carano in the main event. Plus co-main's Nate Diaz versus Mike Perry. And the best heavyweight in the world, Frances Ngano versus Felipe Lenz. Watch Rhonda Rousey versus Gina Carrano, live only on Netflix. Saturday, May 16th at 9 p.m. Eastern Center time, 6 p.m. Pacific time. UFOs seem to be invading both our skies and our news outlets like never before.

And more people are starting to look up and are wondering who or what might be out there. In 2016, Ryan Sprague introduced the world to countless UFO encounters that had never been made public before. And now, in the second edition of his book, he revisits these events and introduces brand new UFO cases, in somewhere in the skies, a human approach to the UFO phenomenon. How have these events changed the lives of those involved? And what might it tell us about the phenomenon? With in-depth follow-ups, brand-new chapters, and detailed testimony from credible witnesses

and insight from those in the psychological, academic, and scientific fields, somewhere in the skies, a human approach to the UFO phenomenon, weaves together a story of stories, attempting to get to the heart of these mysteries one experience at a time. Available now on Amazon in both paperback and e-book.

To learn more, visit Somewhere In The Skies.com. This is Somewhere in the Skies, with Ryan's bread. Somewhere in the Skies premiered on April 17, 2017, with our very first guest being historian, author, and UFO researcher, Richard Dolan. The episode covered a very interesting aspect to the entire UFO topic, but in particular, it focused on the manipulation and influence by the mainstream media when it comes to UFOs. But it goes much, much deeper

than just ridiculing the topic or having a little laugh. Here's Richard Dolan during our very first interview. A couple of things that you notice about mainstream media. It's interesting because we went through the whole election in 2016 and now in 2017, and media itself is a story. We hear everyone talking about so-called fake news.

And, you know, there's lots of ways to look at this fake news phenomenon. My perspective on it is that the corporate mainstream media itself is the primary conveyor and purveyor of fake news. And I say this not siding with any one particular political party here. But I have been looking at CNN and MSNBC and Fox and PBS and really all of these large corporate dominated intelligence community dominated sources of news as purveyors of fake news. one of the things that was important for me is just to mention to people that not only is the mainstream media, not your friend or my friend. I mean, it lies, it spins, it censors. It's owned by just a few very powerful corporations. It is merged with the popular culture entertainment industry.

It co-operates with the intelligence community. All of this is known. People often don't recognize this. They don't pay attention. They don't know their history. But the mainstream media has cooperated with U.S. intelligence for decades. generations still does. But it also makes us sick, and I mean physically it makes us sick, and intellectually, emotionally it makes us sick. Again, that interview was from almost four years ago

when Dolan brought this to our attention. And I mean, it was no huge secret, but it seemed a whole new era in our budding social media age when both the 24-hour news cycle and the clashing idealism of politics, beliefs, and truth were beginning to consider. assume us every single second of every single day. And as these early warnings by Dolan and many others throughout the decades have become more and more real, we find ourselves in a whole new world of uncertainty. But we have to ask ourselves, how new is it? Today, we talked to former host and news reporter Clayton Morris. Morris not only observed these notions being brought forward by Dolan, but he was a part of the machine that controlled it. Having worked for Fox News, he saw

everything. And now, looking back, he's able to understand and reflect on how deep and how high it actually goes. I really try to shine a light on the fact that you're being lied to by the mainstream media every day. You're being spoon-fed by the mainstream media every day. You know, people forget that it's a for-profit organization. So you're watching MSNBC, you're watching CNN, you're watching Fox, you're watching any of these channels, and they're all for-profit, massive companies that have an agenda. They have a narrative, they have a story, and they know their audience, and they're not going to tell you the more difficult pieces of that story. It's hard for people to swallow because we're also spoon-fed these things, and you might be a fan of Rachel Maddow, you might be a fan of Tucker Carlson,

You might be a fan of Hannity. You might be a fan of Joy Reid, whatever it is. To me, all I'm saying is I want people to really start thinking outside of these sources because there's a whole world out there of people in the United States. There's 100 million people that don't vote. 100 million. And the reason that you see Wall Street doing just fine is because if Biden wins, they'll be fine. If Trump wins, they'll be fine.

Because they're all part of this. machine. And stretching far beyond politics, we also hear about how Clayton Morris fought to get the UFO topic covered in the most serious manner. Almost everything that you saw on Fox was me bringing them a story. This story is explosive and we need to do it. We need to cover this story. And so one time Fox, when I was doing the show, they played some like X-Files music or

something like that coming back from Braves. to into the segment and I flipped out in the meeting afterwards. I was like, no, never again. This story should be treated just as importantly as anything else we do and we never did it again. Here's our conversation with Clayton Morris. Clayton, thank you so much for joining me for the very first time on somewhere in the skies. Are you kidding me, man? I know this has been like, it's been really something I've been wanting to do for so long and we've been going back and forth on this for many, many months, and I'm just, I'm flattered. I'm super excited. This is going to be a lot of fun. I could say the same. I've been, I've been listening and watching everything you've done throughout the

years, both in the paranormal world and in the mainstream media world, which is kind of what we're going to be talking about today a little bit, but no, it's definitely a pleasure having you here, and we have so much to talk about, man. I think the last time we spoke was right when the New York Times story broke, and a lot has happened since then. So, you know, Yeah, we're going to go deep. This is going to be fun. Well, yeah, I mean, before we even really get to the bulk of the conversation, my origin story with you is I came across your work through podcast legend Jim Harold, who everyone on this show probably knows he's been on a few times, Jim Harold of the paranormal podcast. And I would love to hear all about how you became connected with Jim, your work together.

Yeah, maybe a little about how your interests. in the paranormal and UFO started. Give us the origin story of Clayton Morris in this paranormal world. You know, it's funny. I had, I actually, there was the very beginning of me working at Fox News Channel in New York. And, you know, I grew up in Philadelphia. I just left my job as a host of Good Day, Good Day, Philadelphia. And was on my way to New York City to host that show and started.

And I was there for maybe five, six, seven months or so. And I was always obsessed with the paranormal since I was. a child and mysteries and unexplained stories. These things always fascinated me and my sister as well. And I stumbled across, I think it was in that maybe its first year or so, was the paranormal podcast or within its first year was Jim's show. And I became obsessed with it, was listening to it. And I just reached out to Jim, I think via Twitter.

And he said, oh, my God, I'm a huge fan of your show. I watch you all the time on Fox. And I said, really? I mean, he's like, I can't believe this. And we just connected and we became great friends. We got on the phone, we talked. And then we just started coming up with ideas. I kind of, I don't know who came up with the idea, but I said, maybe we should do a show together.

You know, I've been wanting to do, I said, I think I might have said I've been wanting to do like a video paranormal show. Could we pull something like that off? And Jim obviously had the, the broadcasting chops and the experience. And I don't remember. It's been like 12 years at this point. like what the entomology of that relationship was. But I would tell Jim, I said, you know, there's something, there was something so calming about Jim's voice. And you could tell that he had such empathy and reverence for the material.

And I, you know, I said, I would like fall asleep listening to your shows, not in a bad way. But I just found them like lights off. Same. I wouldn't hear the spooky story, you know? Like, yeah. And like, for instance, for you, like one of your shows, like that's the same thing. like just with the music and the ambiance and how highly well produced it is. It's like, you know, that's perfect sort of like, you know, dark, turn off the lights,

put a fire in the fireplace, put your headphones on the ambiance that you put into your shows. It's just fantastic. So, um, so kudos to you. And so that's really how it started. And then we started together doing a show called the paranormal report, which was a once, once a week, video, uh, video show where we would run down. sort of the news of the week. And, yeah, it just kind of grew from there.

And, you know, it was starting to take off, you know. And, you know, that's one of the problems. Like, I worked in the mainstream media. And that's one of the issues is, like, working in the mainstream media, you're sort of bought and sold by them, right? You sign a contract. You are their anchor. You know, I am the anchor for Fox News.

And they just didn't like that I was, like, a host on another show that had nothing to do with their ownership. So they kindly asked me, please, this would be technically a breach of contract. Would you mind stop doing the show? And for me, as a fear-based young man who was just really getting started in like the biggest part of my career, to have like a legal team sort of just nicely threatened you, not threatened, but you know, nicely sort of nudge you in the right direction. You might not want to do this thing.

And, you know, Jim and I, we weren't making any money doing it. It was just a labor of love. And I just, you know, I had kids and I had to just make a decision. And Jim was gracious and kind and having to end that show. And I think people, then we, a few, like a few years later, we were able to do a podcast together and talk about it. It just, but I felt bad because I really wasn't able to say anything. I wasn't able to come out and kind of say I had, I can't do this anymore.

We just had to say it was for personal reasons. And it was. that was the truth. It was personal reasons, but it was kindly asked for by my corporate overlords to not do it. Hey, man. I mean, look, we were, I mean, as a fan, I was disappointed, but we understood. Like, again, I, as I've sort of kind of, I guess, climbed the ranks in this entertainment world as well when it comes to the paranormal and how it's done with television. Yeah, it's tough. When you get that contract and you, you sign on that line, they kind of own you. And I mean, I dealt with that with my current television projects. And there were so many other things I wanted to do, but I literally and legally could not. And I completely understand. So it was, you know, it was a moment in time we'll always have of the paranormal report and maybe someday. But we're going to get to some,

some other stuff you're up to as well in that realm. Yeah. But yeah, I guess kind of bouncing off of your work at Fox. Now, a lot of us in this world of UFOs, we're really excited to hear you talk about UFOs on the air. I mean, again, you were kind of our in at the time when it came to this topic and getting it out. I know that I deserve that, but no, you were very kind. I mean, thank you for that. Yeah, of course, man. Every time you brought it up on the air, we're like, yes, that's one more. That's one more for Clayton. But I want to ask you, how does that work, you know, when it comes to covering these topics?

At least with Fox, I'm sure it's different with every network or maybe it's not. Maybe it's a sort of sweeping thing with the mainstream media. But do you bring these stories to the network or is it something they knew you were kind of interested in? So let's have Clayton cover this. How does it work? in, at least with Fox when it comes to this topic, when you were there. Right. So I was the anchor on a morning show called Fox and Friends.

I did the weekend version of it, Saturday and Sunday. And we had a little bit more leniency on the weekend because we had four hours. And at the time, when I took over that show, they wanted it to be younger and hipper and so forth. And we pulled it off. You know, my co-host, my co-host, Allison and Dave. And we, you know, it was a phenomenal time. It's probably the greatest time I've ever had in broadcasting. And three of us were just so good together.

We just, the chemistry, et cetera, was just fantastic. It was like lightning in a bottle. You know, you just can't replicate it. And I, it was a little of both to answer your question

because they knew my personality. They knew I loved weird stories. They knew I loved the paranormal. They knew I loved UFO stories. They knew I loved things that could make people think, could also make people laugh. So if there was ever like a funny, off the wall story. Hey, like pet airways, you know, like they're going to fly pets now. Like,

fly out to Iowa and do a story, fly into Des Moines and do a story on pet airways, you know, random stuff and have fun with it. We need someone to wear like a chicken suit on the show for something. Like, they're like, it wasn't even a question. It was like Clayton, you know, like, it was like, who's the jackass? It's basically like, who can we find that's in our audience, in our show that's like, could pull that off? Yeah, who's the fall guy? Right. Exactly. But also they knew that I was fascinated by that. So I would, almost everything that you saw on Fox and Friends was it was me bringing them a story, whether it was something from Leslie Kane or her new book or this story with, you know, then candidate Obama, the pilot. Oh, right. It became the Air Force.

One pilot who, you know, admitted in my interview with him that, uh, You know, this is very common, and they witness the UFO off the, you know, off the front of the right side of the, of Air Force One. And that other pilots were not allowed to talk about this. It was frowned upon. And he was hoping that by shedding a light doing that interview, that it would cast, it would open that up. So those stories, yeah, it was really me sort of bringing them. And it was always, you know, I mean, I have to give my producers a lot of, a lot of credit. You know, Gavin and Jennifer and another Jennifer and Lauren and the people, my.

production team because I would pitch this story in a meeting and I had to bring the energy for it. Like it was me selling it to them in a pitch meeting. Like listen, Leslie Kane has just written a book where she goes on the record with government officials, former members of the military, high ranking generals, and this story is explosive and we need to do it. We need to cover this story. And it often helped if there was some other media that this person had done before so that it wasn't something out of the blue. I'd have to push three or four times in order to get the story. Like, hey, what about that Leslie Kane story? What about that Leslie Kane?

You know, I had to push a couple of times to get it on the air. And then some other random sighting or events or pilots or whatever it happens to be, I'd have to push a little bit. But in the end, they usually caved. And honestly, all it comes down to in mainstream media is dollars. It all comes down to eyeballs, ratings, and dollars. And so I learned early on that if the segment I pitched would garner high ratings, then I would get more of them. So I really tried to study the, we would get the, I don't know if you know this term, but for the layperson who's not familiar with broadcast terminology, you'd get your minutes. And what that means is you would literally, you could get four hours of minutes.

So you could see that at 8.53 a.m., when you did that UFO segment, the minutes, like the numbers went off the charts. So you could track minute by minute, and that's what executives do. You could see the Nielsen ratings. You could see the minute-by-minute response of viewers and eyeballs tuning into your show. And so I used to study those. The key part was to not look at them at the moment that the segment was on, but the amount of eyeballs that came about. five or six minutes later because it was a flow. You know, maybe someone was telling someone to tune in or texting a friend or whatever.

You've got to check this out or something like that might unfold. And then also a tease. What I learned is if you didn't tease a story and again to the layperson, not television savvy, if you're ever watching Jake Tapper or Fox and Friends or any show, and they're saying, hey, coming up after the break, we're going to be sitting down with, you know, this this individual who witnessed a UFO, what he thought was a UFO crashing in Kexburg, Pennsylvania in 1965. And what he will tell you about this UFO is mind-blowing.

We now have the evidence right after the break. If you do not tease a story, people don't know what's coming up. And so I got in the habit of really making sure that we had time in the segment beforehand to make sure that we didn't have to kill a tease. Because I knew if I could tease that UFO story, I could sell it. And I would say, coming up after their break, and they would give me the read because they knew I could sell it, one of the most remarkable UFO sightings over Chicago's O'Hare Airport. Right. Entire, you know, an entire part of the airport shut down because of a UFO hanging over the tarmac.

We're going to show you the photos and the evidence when we come back. And you could see a spike in ratings. So I knew that if I could get the eyeballs, I could then also get my producers to do the story. So it's a, you have to have both. I mean, to be successful, you know. Right. It's a game. Yeah, it really is.

Right. And, you know, we were lucky that you were really good at playing that game because we got a lot of those out of there. I have to ask, you know, in terms of when you, you know, you pitched it and they said, yes, we'll do it. And you're there. It's happening where you're being broadcast. Did they ever make you downplay the topic or give it a certain angle, you know, Throughout the years, ever since Project Blue Book, we've learned that within the mainstream media, even the Pentagon or the CIA, we're telling the media to ridicule the people who report these things or don't take it too seriously.

Did you ever experience anything like that with your time with Fox? Never one time. Never one time. And I can say that unequivocally. No one, and when I first got to Fox, one of the first things that, you know, I mean, we know the story of Roger Ailes. We know the story. Don't shoot the messenger. Don't paint all of us with a, with a, you know, one brush. But one thing that Roger said to me when I first got there and was hired, he said, don't ever change who you are. Don't ever be somebody different on the air. The reason that we are successful here at Fox is because the people that you see on the air are the same people off the air. And don't ever change who you are. And so, you know, I, you know, I, He knew I was like this liberal, progressive guy from Philadelphia, and he's like, just be who you are. And so no one ever told me to downplay any kind of story like that. Now, I know what you're saying because one of my biggest frustrations, and Jim and I used to talk about this on the paranormal report a lot, I would get, I would go off and I would be so mad. And Jim would too. It was about local news.

So let's let me, you know, I lived in West Virginia. And tell me to shut up if I'm, I'm rambling. but I've been like, I've been holding, I've been holding this information in for years. Please, please. For me to be able to talk to you about this is like liberating and cathartic in a lot of ways. Love it. If I could be your therapist, I'm happy to do that, man. I'm sure my listeners will appreciate that.

Give us the exclusive. Feet up on the couch with a glass of wine in my hand. So, you know, one of my big friends, so let's just say as an example, I lived in Bluefield, West Virginia. I was a news anchor for an NBC affiliate there. And as an example, I'm not using this to say that that was the station or I'm just giving this as a local news example. Many of you can relate to the local news story. So Bluefield, West Virginia, there was one evening where the local Kroger was going out

of business. And that was our top story. Now, obviously it affected jobs and people were people going to shop. But that was the top story. Okay. I remember having to go and cover that. I was the main news anchor. They sent me down in the news car,

had to go get interviews with the store owners, customers, how it would affect the community, et cetera, and was covering it. They were going to be out of business in a week. Now, imagine also in the same 24-hour time span, you know, I'm just throwing it like a Kexburg UFO incident happens, where thousands of people see a fireball streak through the sky, right? And crash.

And military shows up and cordons things. off and you know, right? Well, what always ends up happening with a lot of these local news stories, at least back then, I don't know that it's the same today as much. I think we've made some progress. Is that the Kroger story would be

the first story to lead the broadcast. And they wouldn't even mention the UFO story until like right before they're tossed to the weather guy. And it would go something like this and it was super frustrating. Or they would save it for the very end of the show before

they're saying good night, right? And they roll the credits and then, you know, the Tonight Show with Jay Leno starts. And so it would go something like this, like they're going to cover the Kroger story and then towards the end of the broadcast, they say, you know, was that a bird or a plane in the sky? And they'd start playing X-Files music, right? Every time. Every time, you know, well, well, local resident or area residents were on, were a little scared last night when they saw a fireball shoot through the sky, you know. is it a UFO? We don't know. They would all be chuckling. You know, then they tossed to the weather guy.

You know, like, so, Jim, are we going to see any UFOs in our forecast? Well, Mary, I don't know about that. And it was always a joke. It was always an aside. And so one time, Fox, when I was doing the show, they played some like X-Files music or something like that coming back from break to into the segment. And I flipped out in the meeting afterwards. I was like, no, never again. this story should be treated just as importantly as anything else we do, and we never did it again.

I don't remember what story it was, but I remember just being upset about it because it was something I really found irritating. And it was this, it was a way of doing the story to get the ratings, local news, but then to not take the, I don't know, take the blame for doing the story. Right. Like you could always get away with it by adding some music and having a little funny chuckles with your weather guy. and it really irritated me. As you can tell, it still does. Yeah, and I get that. I mean, there have been several times I've been interviewed for news segments,

pre-2017 New York Times and posts, where you still get the smirk from the anchor. And look, it has a lot to do with the person interviewing you as well. If someone like you were interviewing me, like you bet your ass we're both going to be super serious. But when you have someone who's not entrenched in this, doesn't understand the seriousness of it or the potential threat of it from a military angle, it's going to be completely different.

So, yeah, I'm sure it is a case-to-case basis, but you're right. I remember growing up in my hometown of Syracuse, New York, whenever the topic of UFOs was discussed on our local news, it was. It was the last maybe minute of the news leading into something else. And it's like, well, wait, tell us more. Like what's, did, like, what happened after that? And you never got that story. So it's so good when you have time to stretch out and actually talk about it. So, no, that's awesome.

It's good to hear that you kind of told them what's what and like never do that music again. Because, oh, God, for loving the X-Files and it's probably one of the most iconic songs of all time now, I'm so damn sick of it. Right, right, right. Well, you know, look, I'm no pioneer. there's been so many, you know, there's been so many people before me who've done that kind of stuff and like George Knapp and others who have done amazing work, you know, being able to cover this in the news business and giving it real, it's real due in its place. And I don't know that my little piddly segments on my show move the needle much at all. But, you know, I think if anything,

I don't see it as much. I don't. And I think, I think the New York Times story has maybe has a lot to do with that. I think the fact that it's on the front page now of newspapers has, you know, incredible amount to do with the seriousness of this. The fact that my old co-host, who, you know, Tucker, who now does these stories regularly and who used to sort of mock me in commercial breaks about it. And I used to tell him and, like, feed him information about what I knew and people had interviewed and he would like stop and like his tracks. And he was like, really? Really. And so we sort of joke about it now. But back to the, then it was like, you know, even just a few years ago, 2016 was still a joke.

2015 still a joke. And I think we're turning the corner now on the mainstream media. I hope. I hope so, too, man. Well, yeah, you kind of, you touched on two of my next questions for you. So let's dive in. The New York Times article broke and, you know, other news outlets started picking up on the story of this, uh, this secret Pentagon UFO program.

And I mean, none of us saw this coming. No one in, I think the UFO world even. Had any idea this is going on? And credit where credits do, Leslie Kane, Ralph Blumenthal. And I, oh, man, I'm forgetting, Helene Cooper, the Pentagon correspondent. They brought forth this amazing story, and it exploded. And I'd love to get your thoughts. You know, what were your initial thoughts and reactions when this thing broke?

I mean, I woke up and I was like, holy shit. Like, our world's about to change. Our world changed in many ways in the past couple of years. But what did you think when you first heard this news of the Pentagon had done secretly investigating UFOs and they had evidence to show us? I mean, I was blown away by it. And part of me was super pissed that I had already retired from television. So I was like, oh, man, really? Here I leave the show.

I could have, like, I could have, you know, done deeper interviews with Leslie. I could have gone, you know. and I could have convinced, you know, had my producers send me out to to San Diego. I could have, you know, done all that stuff. I could have, you know, Sean Cahill and all those guys. So in that, and, you know, it was right by Christmas time. And then I remember you, Jim and I and Micah Hanks, we did a sort of a roundtable that year

talking about, you know, it's amazing. And so my initial reaction was, I hope that this is the first of many. You know, I hope that this is the first of many shoes to drop. And that was 2017. It was December, what, 15th or 16th of like 2017. And just before Christmas. So everyone's kind of paying attention to their Christmas shopping. And I wish that it would have had, I mean, in our community, I think it had major reverberations.

I just, at the end of the day, I wonder. You know, it really got me thinking like, this is the biggest story. This could potentially be the biggest story of all time. I remember having this conversation with Tucker. Carlson, who was my co-host and went on to host his own show. And we would talk off camera. And, you know, I would say, I don't know. I can't think of a bigger story. And he said, there is no bigger story. Like, this should be the biggest story of all time. And great for him for like continuing and diving deeper into this and doing it over the years. You know, say what you want about Fox. It's politics. Hit whatever. Like, I'm just separating this from that. So just, you know, because there's a lot I don't agree with him on politics, like let's not confuse the two at all. I think you know that about me. But let's just talk about this story, this issue, this coverage.

And I was just, I was in shock. And then, yes, more shoes started to drop in just recently. So I think we're starting to see the fruits of this. And I think hopefully it seems like more shoes are about to drop. And so I think, wow, if I just wonder, though, do the American people see? it this way. I just, I'm curious, to me, this is like the most mind-altering, earth-shattering story in my lifetime. And to know that this is here, to know that this exists, to know that these pilots are watching craft fire into the ocean and move at speeds that they, that not even, you know,

the Minuteman air missiles could even come close to the speeds. How do we attribute that to? And do do most of most people who are walking around or worrying about paying their bills who can't even put food on their table can't pay rent how does this sit with them and so it's a it's a weird kind of story to be sitting right now in the middle of this like sort of pandemic backdrop and all of this you know i i kind of i think about those things and i mean i think a lot of us do and yeah i mean it's exciting and we're getting more information than i think we ever have on the ufo topic within, you know, officialdom or government. But I think you're right.

I think, you know, whether I don't want to get too conspiratorial, but, you know, whether it was planned to drop these things now in the middle of a pandemic where people will not pay attention or, you know, the Department of Defense officially releasing those UFO videos, right when the pandemic was kind of ramping up, you do have to wonder, are these things sort of dropped knowing that a lot of the public won't be paying attention and maybe, maybe not, but I think you're right. And I mean, I wake up every morning being like, how, how has the world not reacted to the news that like the Pentagon was briefed on off-world vehicles? That's something I want to ask you about as well. Or, you know, signatures of

life on Venus within the last few weeks. I mean, this is like mind-blowing things that could potentially change our entire world. But I think you're right. You know, we, we, we, we, We are creatures just trying to survive right now in a very uncertain time. And people are out of work. And people are trying to figure out how the hell they're going to pay their bills next month. And these amazing things are happening. But does anyone care? That's a really good question.

I once had a co-host and I won't name her name. But we were talking about this. And I had spoken to a couple of high-ranking generals who told me some things that would, you know, would probably, to be careful here, confirm a lot of what we know, think about these secret programs, etc. And I remember having a co-host who said in a break, because I had mentioned this and talking about in the air, and said, how can you think we're alone?

Like, I think it's kind of, I don't want to say arrogant, but to think that this is it, like, here I am in sweatpants, pants. Like, this is it. This is the highest epitome of the universe as you're looking at it. You know, like, really? And with all of the data that we now have and all, and she said to me, she said, yeah, just, you know, but what is it? It has no effect on me and my daughter or something like that. I don't know how she said it. I just remember thinking, like, but that's probably how a lot of people think. Like, what does this have to do with me going home after work? Right. Having to take care of my daughter. And that is a, I remember even tweeting about a recent UFO story on,

on Twitter and someone's saying, will it help me get my stimulus check? And so you're right. To release this kind of information now, and I think we need to go back to something you said, because it's, I think it's very true. And I think, and don't undercut, don't undercount what you just said. And I hope your audience hears that. This idea that, oh, they, maybe they just release this, because it was time for them to release this, or they release it because they knew it would be downplayed, they could bury it, they could hide it. We now have enough information about how our government lies to us

to, I think, air on the side of your comments rather than think that it's just a coincidence that these things happen in this way. We've seen enough evidence of this now in every major department of the U.S. government, and it's frightening. I mean, it is absolutely frightening to be both, in the journalism world where we covered these things,

or we covered departments lying, hiding, covering up, targeting certain groups to the other side of it. So I want to commend you for bringing that up because I really think that that's the case. And I think we can't put it to find a point on it. If we all believe that the government is just sitting there has our best interests at heart, we need to get our heads examined.

Right. Yeah. And, you know, so many former military people and officials within government have told me the same thing. You know, yeah, like a lot of the times we have lied and we have hidden, and it's for a reason. And there's times where I understand that. You know, there's national security and things of this nature. But then there comes a point where, you know,

you can't put that genie back in the bottle. You can't expect the public to believe what you say when you have lied to us so much in the past. Right. And look, like, I'm, I don't. I consider myself a pretty patriotic person. I love America. I feel so fortunate to live here. But, you know, not for a second would I say, oh, the government's going to tell us the truth about UFOs? Cool. I'm going to believe everything they say. And you sort of see that happening now in this world, Clayton, where, you know, UFO people have been screaming for decades. Don't trust the government. They've lied to us about UFOs for so long. And then boom. You know, now they're telling us we're creating a task force to investigate them.

We're going to figure this out. And everyone's like, yeah, yay, finally. And you have to wonder, you know, how has the public been so quick to be like, oh, okay, we're going to believe everything you tell us from here on now. Oh, yeah. You're going to have a very open and honest task force now, like Senator Marco Rubio, who's like, yeah, okay, we're, you know, more interested to make sure that this is not China or Russians and, you know, we hope that they haven't made some sort of technological leap. And yeah,

we want to check into this. And, you know, it's a national security risk and we should be something that we should be looking into. I just find it incredibly hard to believe. Given the, you know, just finishing up reading Bob Woodward's new book, Rage. By the way, it's funny to read, like, look at the covers for Rage in other languages. Like when you see, like, the book covers in Portuguese and Spanish. And it's like they all have their one word to describe rage, you know. Anyway, it's about President Trump. But you get to see the level of pinpoint precision intelligence on North Korea and minute-by-minute

movement of small little things inside of North Korea. You mean to tell me that they wouldn't be concerned with vehicles flying over Maelstrom Air Force Base or God knows where else, turning off. off nuclear missiles? Come on. Come on, man. Right? Yeah. Yeah. And we have so many instances where this has apparently happened, where these unknown craft have turned on, turned off these things. You look at Rendelsham, Malstrom, like you mentioned, there's no way this isn't a concern. So I guess why we're on that topic, Clayton, of the UAP Task Force, do you think we're going to get anything from this as the public? We know there's going to be a classified nature to it. And that's probably where all

of it's going to lie. But are we going to get anything from this task force? Or is this project Blue Book all over again where, yeah, they say they're going to look into it. But then it just turns out they're going to explain it all the way and, you know, bury it again. What do you think? I think the cat is out of the bag at this point. I think when you have, you know, Senator Harry Reid, you have Marco Rubio, you have others. And I think it's too hard in this information. information age to put that genie back in that bottle. Cat in a bag, genie in a bottle. I don't know how many other metaphors I can.

So many. But I think, yeah, we won't get the full story. We will never get the full story. But I think that, yes, I have some hope. I just, like, if you ask me as an empath, you know, that's, I feel it in my stomach that we've turned a corner. And we are going to start to get this information. I don't know with it.

You know, my big fear, of course, is all the focus on this sort of transfer of power and what's going to happen inside of a new administration and what things get shaken up and what sort of committees get quashed and pushed aside and resources and money transferred. But look, you look at Joe Biden. You know, here's a guy who voted for the Iraq War, 20% increase in military spending. He is not a guy who is going to cut military spending. He's not going to cut these types of programs. Like if you're like a deep progressive who's hoping that we would end our footprint in the Middle East, et cetera, et cetera, that's not going to happen. So do not look for these programs to dry up. I'm telling you, like these guys, Joe Biden, Donald Trump, they have these guys in their pockets.

I mean, they have billions of dollars in contracts with these people. These defense contractors rely on this 20% increase in defense department spending. the fact that we're spending $900 billion a year, we have these programs in place to check and find this out. Now we have them on the record telling us that this committee will direct the DNI in consultation with the Secretary of Defense and the heads of these other agencies publicly. We know this now to submit a report within 180 days of the enactment of the act, right, to the Congressional Intelligence and Armed Services Committee on unidentified aerial phenomenon. So, okay, we now know it's public record. Where is it going to go? Why don't we see this report?

Can you tell us what's in it? Is it empty? Is there nothing in here? Just weather balloons? There's going to be something. And maybe this is the first step to them letting the full cat out of the bag. I don't know. I'm hopeful.

I'm hopeful. Okay. Okay. That's good because we need that hopeful part to all of this because there's so many who have said we've been here before. Well, let's talk about, you know, this task force sort of came to be through the pressure of one particular group, and that is to the Stars Academy. Whether you love them or hate them, Tom DeLong, you know, Christopher Mellon, Luis Alizando,

these guys have pushed a lot of people that they used to work with within the government in corners and said, give us the information, or we're going to, we will find ways to get it. So what do you make of this group? I mean, they're kind of at the forefront right now when you think of UFO research or UFO studies. They are the poster child right now. So what do you think about this group and what they're doing? So, I mean, let's just go back to 2017, right? Which the reason that we have these clips, these amazing TikTok UFO clips,

is because of to the Stars Academy, right? And then the Pentagon coming out in April and determining and admitting, yet those unclassified videos, they don't reveal any sensitive capabilities, but we're going to admit basically that they're real. And the DOD then release the videos also. I mean, it all started with them. So it's very easy for keyboard cowboys who are sitting back,

not doing anything, to criticize that. You can have disagreements with different things that they've done or the way that they've approached sort of a drip campaign of things, et cetera, et cetera. But I think it's exciting. I mean, I like to give people the benefit of the doubt.

I'm sort of a glass half full kind of a guy to begin with. I remember Tom a number of years ago talking about their approach to this. And I thought the approach was really fascinating, which was we're going to have an entertainment arm, which could help desensitize people to the story and, you know, read their books, read there and I think you could see that. I think you could understand that if people are able to sort of digest that these government programs are here, that this is happening, that they've been researching this for years, this sort of drip campaign of entertainment, or sort of, it's like

preparing us for it in a way. Because maybe we weren't ready for it before. I don't know. And I don't know that that's the right approach. It's an interesting take. So I'm not one of those people that it's out with the pitchforks for them and has a negative feeling towards it. I think they've shined a light on something that we didn't know about. We've had confirmation of it now because of it. And they're continuing to do this work. And let's see what they get. I think it's exciting. Let's take what we can get instead of, like you said, using pitchforks and this and that. And look, I understand, you know, there's independent UFO researchers all over the world who have busted their asses for decades just to like get any piece of the puzzle and to uh you know find answers or or whatnot and a

lot of them sacrifice their their reputations their jobs probably the relationships let's be honest right and haven't ever gotten the attention or acknowledgement like this group has but i'm all for anyone who's willing to get this topic out there and get it out to the mainstream and i'm going to ride the wave, man. Look, if these guys are doing their thing, I'm going to do mine. Like, we all have a place in this, I think, is what's most important. You know, when you have former military and intelligence officials looking at this as a potential threat, that's one thing. But then for every one of those, there's hundreds of civilians who have witnessed things that I want to go talk to, and I want to get to know and hear their thoughts. So I think, yeah, there is room at the table for everyone.

Right. And I think, you know, some of the generals and governors that I've spoken to off camera, off the record, who have told me things that confirming and corroborating a lot of what we hear and to them to say, you know, that they, and I can tell in their way that they're telling me that they felt that these stories should be told, that these things need, like, they don't feel like that these things, these are secrets that should be held by the U.S. military. These are not things that should be that withheld from the American public or the world for that matter. And so I can, in my discussions with them over the time, many, many years, I know that this is like an unburdening in some ways. And this is, they're happy about it. This is a confirmation, a wink, wink, yes. Like, we've known this. This is just the tip of the iceberg kind of stuff. See, that's awesome.

That's invigorating to hear that even those who once had to suppress the influence. are like, finally, finally, I can get this off my shoulders. We can only hope, you know. I'm sure there's many Roswell witnesses who wish they had that opportunity when they were alive. And now they'll never, they're not, they won't be there the day we finally know what Roswell was, if that ever happens. Right. I guess moving back to, to the media for a minute, I'd love to get your thoughts on this.

conspiracy theory. It is something that has become quite popular, you know, as of late with, you know, even up to the last few days with national news covering things like QAnon and, you know, other baseless conspiracy theories, you know, to the point where a militia group just was thwarted from kidnapping a governor of a state. Right. Because they believe they were handling the pandemic in a not so good way and taking away our rights, blah, blah, blah, blah. This is the type of real world danger that has come, I think, sort of from this radicalization of conspiracy theory. So what do you think about what's happening in our country right now with the internet and conspiracy theory? Has it evolved, devolved, and where do UFOs lay in all

of that? I hope, well, I guess my 30,000-foot-level view is. that I hope that UFOs and that study, you know, whether it's talking about, you know, life on Venus or us getting to Mars or, you know, discussions about off-world vehicles and materials that Luis Salazarando has talked about. Like, I hope that doesn't get caught up in this and corrupted. But there's such a propensity for misinformation. And I think the sad thing, I think the thing that I think people need, one of the things I've been really trying to fight on on my morning show, I do call Morning Invest every morning, is I really try to shine a light on the fact that you're being lied to by the mainstream media every day. You're being spoon fed by the mainstream media every

day. You know, people forget that it's a for-profit organization. So you're watching MSNBC, you're watching CNN, you're watching Fox, you're watching any of these channels, and they're all, they're all for-profit, massive companies that have an agenda. They have a narrative. They have a story. And they know their audience. And they're not going to tell you the more difficult pieces of that story. So MSNBC is not going to tell you, go deeper into stories about fracking, is not

going to talk about what's going on in upstate Pennsylvania with groundwater. And is going to sort of cover over the Kamala Harris talking about fracking. It's like, you know, there's, so I think it's hard for people to swallow because we're also spoon fed these things. And you might be a fan of Rachel Maddow. You might be a fan of Tucker Carlson. You might be a fan of Hannity. You might be a fan of Joy Reed, whatever it is. To me, all I'm saying is I want people to really start thinking outside of these sources because there's a whole world out there of people in the United States.

There's a hundred million people that don't vote. million. It's awful. But here's what's so sad about this. And I don't know, I don't want to get into politics here, but I think it's so important. I'm an independent. Let me just say that first and foremost. I'm an independent for years. People think, oh, you were at Fox. You were a conservative. No, I was a like progressive liberal guy from Philly. And yet I don't think the Democratic Party. So either way, I think that they're product of the same huge corporate elite agenda. And the reason that you see Wall Street doing just fine is because if Biden wins, they'll be fine. If Trump wins, they'll be fine because they're all part of this same machine. You know, why during the DNC,

didn't we hear the Democrats talking about a really strong green energy policy? Why didn't we hear them talking about public education for all, Medicare for all, universal health care? All of those things just got swept under the rug. Why didn't, why did we, same thing with the RN. It's just an extension of the same stuff. And so there's not much that changes. You have little bits of changes in that tax code. And Grover, my dog agrees with me because he hears me talking about this every morning on my show. And he gets fired up about it.

You're here, Grover. Yeah, so he understands. So, you know, I think the thing is that if people can start to look at the media, the mainstream media is, in fact, in many ways, like an enemy of truth. And they can really start to question everything, they're watching, it can really start to open us up to these ideas that we can get more truth out there. And I think when people are supporting your show, the listeners of your show, when they go to your website and buy a mug, buy a t-shirt, like they are supporting independent

journalism. The work that you do on this show is phenomenal. The stories that you uncover, the interviews you're able to get, the mainstream media will not cover it. They will not cover it. So I think that these conspiracy theories are in many ways sort of tailor made for the mainstream media. And this idea of, you know, Q and on or whatever else, like becoming the buzzword of the day, it's so easy for you to be on Facebook and only see the feeds that are, they're tailor made for you as a conspiracy theorist or who's a right-wing person who loves Fox News and loves that world. and you can literally be sitting next to your spouse and you are you're a liberal or you and you can see an entirely different news feed totally totally constructed differently uh that's that looks nothing like what your spouse is seeing because it it knows how to talk to you um i can't remember the name of the movie we just watched it was on netflix and i can't i'm drawn a blank oh uh yeah i saw that too the social dilemma dilemma yes bingo it's terrifying it's terrifying the social dilemma it's terrifying the social dilemma And it's just how this algorithm works to feed this insecurity and this fear.

So if you, I think what I try to do on my show is let you know that like you are a pawn. And if you know you're a pawn, what do you do to break that cycle? And if you are starting to have a friend of mine who's like, yeah, my friends, they just went off the deep end. He's like they were, you know, they were conservative. And now they're like all in on this QAnon's conspiracy and they think that this. And he's like, I can't even talk to them anymore. They're absolutely bad shit crazy. Yeah.

And I don't know where it comes from. It's like it's adding fuel to the fire. Like if you already have that little bit of kindling and now you have all of these sort of like-minded tweets and Facebook messages being thrown at you with all this misinformation, you're like, yeah, I feel that. Yeah, let's go burn down a building. It's frightening. Yeah, it is. And it's, you know, in the moment when you're living in that echo chamber, you're. feel empowered. Like, oh, someone gets me. Like, I'm on the right path. But like you said, you can be

standing next to a person who is being fed something completely different. And I don't know, Clayton. I mean, I've never really talked about my private life on the show in terms of all of this, but it affects all of us. I mean, we've lost family members. We've lost friends who we've had for years, who've been through everything together. And then this one thing, whether it's politics or, you know, just certain things that were shown on social media, it just puts a wall up between you. And it's terrifying because I'm like, well, how are we ever going to get past that? Or how do we go back to a time where this wasn't?

And, you know, even in that movie you mentioned, we can't. There's no going back. It's just how we move forward. And I think you're right. I think, you know, if we are going to be pawned, in this game through this huge elite thing that the mainstream media is feeding to us, I think maybe all we can really do is use them like they're using us. And that's kind of the way I look at, you know, if I'm doing something on television or if I'm being interviewed for a mainstream

outlet, yeah, like I respect the anchor interviewing me, but as a huge corporation, I don't give a shit about Fox. I don't care about CNN. I don't care about any of them. They're money-making machines, like you said. And if they're going to have me on, I'm going to use that time to get my message out there or what I think and try to lead people to what I do and what other independent podcasters and journalists do. So, yeah, like you said, if we're going to be a pawn, let's try to be the bishop or the queen for a little bit. I love that. And, Look, I'm with you, man. Like, I've had, you know, I've lost, I mean, look, anytime I, I do my YouTube show and I, you know, like I have this theory that Trump is, you know, so I did a whole thing today on the show about how I think that Trump is just playing everybody.

And I think that he's totally trying to throw the election on purpose. And here's why. Because when I was at Fox in 2016, months before the election, anchors were being courted to sort of join a Trump TV network. And, you know, so like, like, and now. that's happening again. Like this is like they've already laid the groundwork. He has 1.2 million subscribers on his Trump TV channel. He does not want to do this another four years.

He never wanted to do it in the first place. It was all a media play to pay off debt and to build a media brand. Yeah. And so I mean, it's it's plain as day. I mean, it's plain as day anybody can see it. And so like I know that I'm going to have people and like on my YouTube channel will be like unsubscribed. You know, like just one word like unsubscribe. Oh yeah.

I know that one. That's fine. It's great. And I'm reminded today, I wrote this in our newsletter. Today is, you know, here we are in October. It's the 80th birthday of John Lennon, the beetle. And, you know, he was such a pioneer for peace and justice. And one of the things he said was, and I think this so powerful, given this era of misinformation, he said, being honest may not get you a lot of friends, but it will always get you the right ones. And I just, I said that at the top. of my show today because I just feel like, you know, if you're a viewer of my show, you're a follower of my show, you're a subscriber of Ryan's show, you're listening, you're listening and you're, you're open-minded. Like, you might say something that might offend somebody else and you might crack a few eggs to make an omelet, you might lose that person, but the person who sticks around, the person who's open, willing to question mainstream media, to think for themselves. It's like, okay, being honest, may not get you a lot of friends, but it's going to get you the

right ones. And that's the way I look at subscribers and viewers of my show now. You know, so many people get caught up in the popularity game. And that's what mainstream media is. You know, how can we just, like, say the much crap to try to get the most eyeballs? I'm more interested in getting the right eyeballs. And that's what's more interesting to me. I like that. And, you know, I have fallen victim to passion tweeting or angry Facebooking like everyone else, man. And like I always regret it, you know. And my wonderful partner taught me, you know, write it out, type it out, think about it for a minute, and then see if you still want to send it. And my God, man, that changed everything. Because I have.

I've lost friends. I've lost supporters. And it gets harder and harder the more you get closer to an election or something. And then you start to realize, holy shit. Like, I have been manipulated to think this way and to tweet because every tweet I put out is, more for the algorithm and more for this and it just feeds the machine. Who gives a shit about Biden, who gives a shit about Trump? Like at the end of the day, we want what's best for our family, for our friends, and for our fellow neighbor. And if we all could realize that and stop feeding

the divisiveness, I think we'd get somewhere. And I hope, I hope that could happen someday. I fear we've kind of gone past it. But hey, look, sometimes you've got to, you're You got to break everything down before you build it back up. But I completely agree with you. You know, I can have friends on both sides, and I think that's important to realize what's actually at stake and what's actually important. And that's these things like climate change or how to stop this pandemic. It's not about what Trump thinks or what Biden thinks or Kamala Harris or Pence or whatever. These are just like these are just cartoons that they're.

they put in front of us, you know? Right. I mean, if we, you know, it is. It's just like parts of a puppet machine. And we just need to think for ourselves. And I think I, that's why I just will say this on the politics piece. I think if I could leave in part anything on politics to your audience, something that I'm passionate about, it's about like the state of Maine, ranked choice voting. The only state in the country right now that has ranked choice voting. And it's been upheld in the courts. And so this election cycle, depending on when you're listening to this, hopefully before the election. But nevertheless, if you live in the state of Maine, you have ranked choice voting, which means you get to vote your conscience. So if you think that Joe Jorgensen, the libertarian candidate,

is right for you, or you think Howie Hawkins, the Green Party candidate, is right for you, and, you know, whatever, you can rank choice your vote. So that means you could pick Howie Hawkins as your top choice. And then you're like, okay, well, if Howie doesn't get 50% of the vote, like if he doesn't, then then the second choice, you can pick Joe Biden. Third, you want Donald Trump, great, whatever. And you can do it in that order and get in the beauty of it is you can still vote your conscience. But if that particular candidate doesn't get the act of the requisite number, then it drops to the second choice and third and forth. And it goes down.

And it's, they've been doing it through their primaries and it's been fantastic. And there's literally no downside. And now they've got it for the presidential election. I'm super jealous of you Mainers. So anyone's listening in Maine? I mean, this is like this is what our democracy needs, not this two-party system that's totally corrupt, but the ability for other voices to emerge. And if those voices emerge and people believe them and they're struck, then guess what?

People can vote their conscience. And somebody who carries a message that's not bought and sold by big corporations that stands by us could actually emerge. So that's my little ranked choice of voting PSA for this evening. I love it, man. Well, hey, I mean, it's true, though. You know, at least you can leave knowing, like, I voted for who I wanted to instead of being forced to vote for one of the, you know, the main people, not from Maine, but the main people out there. Right. So that's, that's cool. I do hope things move more in that direction. But, you know, if politics teach us anything, it's that it, all it does is divide us. And that's unfortunate. So I'm glad that this UFO talk. topic can pretty much remain bipartisan. Again, it's much bigger than politics or nations or continents. It could change the world. So I guess kind of moving back to that, I got to ask you, being from Pennsylvania, you did mention it throughout this episode, Kexpert, 1965 UFO incident. This is one of

my favorites, as I'm sure it is, you being a local Pennsylvanian. Did you grow up with this story, Clayton? Yeah, what do you make of the whole Kexperg case? So I didn't, you know, my parents were fairly ignorant when he came to UFO related stuff. You know, there were blue collar hard workers and, you know, we had no music on in the house. They would listen to like Kenny Rogers and a few things. So like any music I would listen to in the house was because I discovered it. And the same with like Kexberg and things like that. So I went to University of Pittsburgh. And so I would drive out from Reading, Pennsylvania, where my folks lived. I grew up in Philadelphia area. and then moved to Reading, Pennsylvania.

And so would drive out west and then lived in Bluefield, West Virginia. So that perpendicular nexus point of Kexburg and that whole area is fascinating to me. I mean, it's creepy in and of itself just coming up from West Virginia, driving through that area. We all know, we all know Mothman stories and other things, but driving through those winding roads on up through that corridor in southwestern Pennsylvania. is fascinating. And I think to me in Pennsylvania,

you know, if you look at the data for the number of Bigfoot sightings and UFO sightings, Pennsylvania is like one of the top spots. And for me to have like grown up in a spot like that has just been exciting. It's still an unsolved mystery. You know, people want to say

that, of course, it was, you know, a general, what was it, a general electric? I forget the call, it was a Mark II vehicle. Right. Something like that. Yeah. Yeah. That that's sort of, okay, it was a, you know, no one wanted to admit at the time in the 60s that were spying on the Russians. So it crashed landed there. And the military, of course, swooped in and blocked it off by 8 p.m. that night, they hauled away on a truck. And there's the funny little egg corn statue up on that stilt. That's still there. You can go see it.

But look, I mean, that part of the country, those, you know, people in Pittsburgh, you know, and I used to read stories in the Pittsburgh Post Gazette about. it and they would do really well thought out pieces on this i i even remember um in college reading about the stories that like dan majors would cover on it and even years later um would would would write about it from the pittsburgh post gazette and they wouldn't just they wouldn't do the the x files laughing yuck it up kind of stuff they would actually do like some some deep dive stories on this with some really good reporting interviewing um people from the mutual you know mutual ufo network from that area so it's been fascinating. I think it is the most famous UFO story from Pennsylvania. What drew you to it growing up? I'm just curious. Is it the hieroglyphs? Is it the strange markings? Is it the... Yeah. There's so much with this one, man. I think the hieroglyphs were really interesting. I mean, we've heard this in several other cases like Rendelsham and whatnot, that there are these weird etchings, even on the Roswell debris. There were said to have been some sort of hieroglyphics or whatnot.

not be there. But even besides the craft itself, it was the, I guess, the immediacy and the, cares probably isn't the right word, but the way the military came in, cordoned it off and literally confiscated homes to like make their home base for this thing. It was clearly something extremely either dangerous or top secret. I mean, they were kicking people out of their homes and saying, we need this for communications and for this and for recovery. And they were silencing everyone, you know, like the local fire station was sent in to stop a fire that happened after the crash. And as soon as the flames are out, they said, get out of here and never talk about this again. So I think the way the military handled it was always really intriguing to me.

I hadn't really heard about that other than Roswell at the time when I got into UFOs. So yeah, I think that's what fascinated me most is we still don't know what it was. I think too, and the children's sighting, you know, because hundreds of people saw this. Yeah. Hundreds. So it wasn't just, you know, like a few and it was the middle of the night. It was hundreds. And there's kids playing baseball in the field.

I mean, there's the 10-year-olds playing football in the fields. To your point, you know, having the two-story house taken over by the military, they'll like, here you go. And here, by the way, take a phone with you. Like here's, right. Just leave. Like, we're taking over. your house. I mean, like, literally, like war. This was like war. Like, we're going to take over your house in Gettysburg and like, we're kicking you out and this is now a military

house. And Robert E. Lee is going to sleep here tonight. So get out of here. Um, you know, and I think also, too, I was, because at broadcast, I was fascinated by like KDKA radio in Pittsburgh. And I, you know, studied broadcasting at the University of Pittsburgh and, um, what is Pittsburgh, you know, is a fascinating broadcasting. I don't know if you know much about. that thing. No, not really. The first radio station is Pittsburgh. The very first radio station started in

a garage in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, and it was KDCA. And it was, it's the only East Coast call sign with a K. You know, all K signs are, I think, west of the Rockies, I guess. So KDKA is the only East

Coast radio station and all of them are Ws, you know, on the east coast. So it's this weird anomaly of KDK. radio. And that night, when that happened, all of these people were calling in to KDK radio. So it's Pittsburgh, you know, it's like an hour north, but still like KDKA radio became like that, the nexus point for all of these people calling in eyewitnesses talking about what they had seen. Oh, wow. And everyone in that town was on the radio listening to KDKA radio and telling

them what they had seen. People are saying cars are coming. out of nowhere. The military is showing up. Volunteer firefighters, police, reporters were flooding into the scene at the time. You know, military personnel coming in. It was all over the place. And so, you know, I think what really struck, I think, the people of Kexberg at the time was just how quickly the military arrived and took charge and took over everything. So I guess that does raise the question, you know, well, if they were there that quickly in 1960s, 65, was it this general electric Mark 2 spy satellite that was studying the Russians and we didn't want them to know that we were studying them?

So we kept it under wraps and kept it quiet. But then again, to your point, why the strange hieroglyphs? Yeah, it's so enigmatic and weird. Right. You know, and I do agree with you. I think this was some sort of either satellite or maybe. a shell from a early spaceflight shuttle? I don't know. It's just, you're right. The way the military moved in so quickly, it's almost as if they were tracking this or they knew about it. They didn't

really know where it went down, but they knew it would be in that area somewhere. I do have to wonder, yeah, was this something not extraterrestrial, but something highly exotic and classified? Yeah, and you have the Pittsburgh Post reporters, too, because like I said, I would, I, I, when I was at the University of Pittsburgh, I loved looking into this and other stories. And I would go down to Hillman Library and, and, and just dig through archives and things like that. And I remember reading old newspaper clippings, the Pittsburgh Post Gazette and things. And so, you know, you have the reporters at the time who went and were sent there, you know, who were working that case, who were out of, like, the Greensburg office. Because, like, if you know anything about Pittsburgh, like, I went to the main campus University of Pittsburgh.

within like the Greenberg, like the Greensburg campus. And there was like two other campuses kind of not too far away. They were like satellites. And that same thing operated two of the news stations at the time for Pittsburgh Post Gazette. They would cover the different bureaus, so to speak. But, you know, the reporter that wound up on the scene, if I'm not mistaken, like described, you know, everyone said it was huge.

Everyone said it was large. I think maybe in people's minds, they think it was maybe 10, 12, 15, 16 feet tall. this craft. He's, you know, he's there. He arrives and he's, you know,

I forget his name. I forget the reporter's name at the time, but he said he saw it and it was being taken away in a flatbed truck and he said it wasn't that large. It was,

to him it looked like, I think he described as like two suitcases, the size of like two small suitcases. Hmm. So you have this discrepancy in sizes from people who thought they saw something bigger and,

you know, um, so, yeah, it is, it's, it's, It's fascinating. Go Pennsylvania.

Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, look, this is one of the only cases where we can turn and say the government got sued, or at least a government-funded NASA got sued. Like we mentioned, Leslie Kane. She sued NASA under the Freedom of Information Act for the lost NASA records on Kexper, in this case. And they agreed to search for the records. And, you know, after being ordered by the court to do so, And during the hearing, I remember reading about this, NASA's public liaison officer testified that two boxes of papers from the time of the Kexburg incident were missing.

And, you know, the loss of records isn't unheard of for NASA, but even the original tapes recorded during the televised Apollo 11 moon landing were misplaced or reuse. So there's another conspiracy right there. But yeah, man. We only have the record. We only have the recording of the TV of the landing. Exactly. We don't even have the actual recording. How does that happen?

How does that happen? Yeah. Someone gets Stanley Kubrick on the Ouija board and let's figure this out. That's a little morbid. I shouldn't have said that. But yeah. No, true, true. But hey, look, she won.

She won. And they said, we got nothing. So we've heard this many times before. So it will go down, I think, is one of the most historic cases. But are there any other? cases, Clayton, that you really turn to, like, that you would hang your hat on and say, this is proof or maybe not proof, but this is enough evidence to say we've been visited by extraterrestrials or interdimensional's, what have you, insert phenomena here, to really tell

people there's something to all this. Well, I think there's a couple. I mean, I'm fascinated. Since I was a kid, I've been fascinated by the Shag Harbor incident. Awesome. That was our episode last week, actually. actually. Sorry to interrupt. No, I mean, I love it. And because, you know, I've been fascinated by that for years. I remember watching documentaries on it years ago and just reading books on it and just

always being just so blown away by it. Maybe it's the remoteness of it. It's the fishing village, you know, in Canada. Very picturesque. You know, picturesque Canadians are not prone to hyperbole. You know, they're not prone to lying. You know, they're just like salt of the earth. I have so many Canadian friends and they are the kindest human beings you'll ever meet, right? So like, and the fact that the Canadian government is involved, you know, and, and, I mean, it's well known, right? I mean, it's not, it's not, it's not a hidden story. I think also, um, so that one's a big one for me. I'm just, I'm fascinated by that. I think, you know, I also think the Tehran UFO incident is another big one. And, uh, you know, I think to hear those pilots, to hear those generals, to hear, I mean, to hear what was

being discussed inside the Iranian government and with with a shake like yeah we know that like this is this is beyond things that we know on this earth and yeah what you saw yeah it's I'm sure you're probably glad you didn't hit this thing when you fired upon it like yeah um so that's fascinating to me and also more more of a sort of the ground-based stuff I think I think that I've been fascinated by it, I don't know how to wrap my head around it, to be quite honest with you. Like, I don't want to come off as some amazing uphologist because I'm not. I mean, if you want to hear a real euphologist, you know, you're the guy, right? Like, so I'm, I'm really, I don't say in some ways a fanboy. I mean, I spend as much time as I can trying to dive into this stuff.

but I think I'm, I think Antarctica to me is so compelling and there's so much there. There's so many stories that we have yet to uncover about Antarctica. And I don't know where to start with it. I don't know where to wrap my head around with it. I don't know where the starting point on discussion about Antarctica is. So to me, what's unfolding in the stories that we hear, the tidbits and dispatches, is that come out of Antarctica, but underground bases and giant chasms and the eyewitness reports and the fact that we have this sort of, the way that the government has structured

Antarctica, the world governments have structured it to me is telling in and of itself. So to me, Antarctica, you know, maybe there's not one Kexburg in Antarctica that we could all point to because it's so remote. But boy, I'm just fascinated by that. Yeah, it is a topic I have not discussed on the show because like you, you know, even as a UFO researcher, I hate using the word expert because none of us know what the hell any of this is. But I would have to agree. Antarctica is just, I can't even imagine the secrets that lie, you know, under the ice there or what have you. And like you said, we've heard some really weird stories come out of there. And maybe, maybe some of them are true. Probably, probably. a lot of them aren't, but there is definitely something to that place. And like you mentioned, you know, the fact that all world governments lead to Antarctica, you have to wonder what the hell is going on there.

Right. Right. And especially now that we've got global warming and what are the concerns with things being uncovered there and ice shelves falling and what's, you know, what's going to emerge there. So I don't know. You know, it's also one of those things I think pay attention to what like Elon Musk talks about. I know it's easy to write off and conspiracy theorists can just kind of laugh him off as like a pot

smoking billionaire, brilliant guy. But when he makes random comments about things like that sometimes, the stuff that he has access to, like you should not you should not discount it. Right. Here's a guy that managed to send a car into space, right? Yeah. Like he's very close to getting people to Mars. Like the fact that when he makes an aside comment about things like that, and I'm also

curious, I can talk to you for hours, but like the boring project, you know, his underground boring. Yeah. If anyone wants to go back and look at the 1960s boring projects, um, underground with the U.S. Air Force and those giant, giant, um, it's easy to find to Google, these giant ground penetrating digging machines from the U.S. Air Force. Like, why? Why? Why do we have these, right? Why are these, and reports of these giant underground caverns and underground shuttle systems being, you know, between the West Coast and through Vegas and through the desert southwest. And so, I don't know, something's going on. I don't know what it is. And sometimes I feel like I can't handle it in my pee brain. You know, like, you know, like, can I just, I would love to be,

I would love to be the fly on Mike Pence's hair and just sit in on one of those meetings, you know, And like, here, what's going on? Can I go, would you mind if I just fly to planet Serpo? Would you mind if I just like head on up to the moon base, the secret moon base on the secret space program? Like, am I enlightened enough to just sit in one day on one of those conversations? Please. Just one.

Yeah. Well, okay. So you did go there, Clay. So I do want to ask. And I just got a few more to wrap up with you here. But you did mention, you know, Pence and meetings and whatnot. Do you think Trump has any interest in this, or is it just another way to get views and have people wonder? Do you think he or any presidents are more privy than others on any of this UFO stuff or have been told anything?

Or are they just temporary people who are like, no, we're not going to give them shit. Like they're going to be gone in four to eight years. What do you think? I think some more than others. I think there's compelling evidence on the whole Jackie Gleason, Richard Nixon's story in Florida and hop in the car and let me show you something, you know, Jackie Gleason and Florida story. And I think there's quite a bit to that. And I mean, how does that story just come out of nowhere, right?

I mean, that comes from the family. Yeah. It comes from the Gleeson family, right? I mean, so, and it's confirmed with the time and date stamps when Nixon. was in Florida, taking him to see whatever he saw, which was arguably what, down UFO wreckage, et cetera, aliens on ice, I don't know, but who knows? I'd pay to see that, yeah. Yeah, yeah, for sure.

So I think there are some, I think it's true if you read, forget if it's in Philip Corso's books or others, you know, this sort of idea of the need to know basis. Right. And I think it's compellingly true. I mean, if you think, and you think of like the nut job that we have in the White House right now, who's there for eight years or four, you're going to give them the keys to the kingdom. I think there's compelling evidence to suggest that there's this secret internal body that sort of protects those secrets. And, oh, you're the president of the United States.

Here's what you get to know. Please don't ask these questions. when Senator, then Senator, still Senator Patrick Leahy of Vermont, asked the question of then general, forget, of Wright-Patterson Air Force Base and what's in, you know, what's there. And he's told, don't ever, you do not ever ask that question again. Oh, yes. Yeah. You know, you, you know, you're on a need to know basis. And the president of the United States, according to, I believe it's Phil, of course.

So again, forgive me, my brain is fried in this pandemic. But basically levels of clearance, the president of the United States is not even on the level with what these individuals and levels of clearance and classified information kept from really a person who's going to be elected for four years, maybe eight, they're going to get access to all of this. I think it's so fascinating to watch these presidents. I did a story on my channel, my paranormal post channel just recently about these presidents. And I'm so struck by the cavalier attitude they have while they're running for president, Obama, Hillary Clinton on David Letterman's show, or it was at Jimmy Kimmel when she talks about UAPs and she's going off about how she wants to shed light on this. And then they, you know, they get close to it.

Or then, you know, President Trump, they talks about it. And you have other people who want to shine lights on it. And then they get, and it's just quiet. Or it's downplayed. So Don Jr. on that Father's Day special interviews President Trump on Trump, on Trump TV, which is going to be the network. Once Trump loses the presidency, he'll run his own major media network.

Mark my words. You heard it here first. And, you know, he says, he asks him the final question, of course, is not the first question. It's the last question. Ha, yuck, yuck, we're going to go to commercial break. We're going to be, thanks for joining me, Dad. So the last question he asks, people want to know.

Like, are there aliens? Have you, do you know what's at Area 51? Are there aliens? And he says a pretty, he's like, you know, stuff. I, you know, it would, it's, it's pretty interesting. It's pretty interesting. I can't, he basically says he can't talk about it. But you can tell, like, he doesn't know much, but he's been told, it's, to me, it's clear as day. He's been told to just not talk about it. Obama gets uncomfortable, being asked about it on Letterman, George W. Bush, can't talk about it, gets uncomfortable, changes the subject, stutters with it. Something happens. I don't know what it is. Something's going on. And I think it's obvious. I would have to, agree. I mean, we even have Clinton on the record saying, I looked into it. I wanted to know what was going on at Area 51. I wanted to know a crash in Roswell, and they flat out told, and this was the day of his inauguration, or like maybe the day after is when he asked these things. Because he said, like, this was one of my goals as president. I wanted to know what the hell was up with these UFOs. And he was told flat out, like you said, you don't have a need to know for that information. So I think you're right. You know, I was curious if the topic would come up in the last debate. But look, we do have a lot more immediate things that I think should be discussed at a debate. But I do wonder if we are going to get any more debates here

in America before the election. Will this topic come up? What do you think? No. And I would, absolutely not. I would love it to come up. It's not. Do you realize during the last debate, in 90 minutes, there was no discussion of the stimulus. Yeah, it was absolutely atrocious on both the hands. How the hell in a 90-minute debate, I'm talking to the vice presidential debate, but we had just gotten the news that President Trump ended negotiations said, I'm done. Yeah. Which was like political malpractice.

You had Republicans like going, what the hell did you just do? You just cost me an election. What are you thinking, right? He then eventually, he just basically took credit for a lack of stimulus. That didn't even come up in the 90-minute vice president. or 60, 70-minute vice presidential debate, there's no way that they're going to bring up UFOs. I mean, I would be stunned. I would, I will be, I will literally eat a house plant, like I've said that on my show.

If that comes up, I will, you can tune in, I will do that. You can pick the house plant too. It could be a cactus. I don't care. I would be stunned. I just cannot see it coming up. The third and final debate is the foreign policy debate, which to me is usually the most interesting debate, but it's also the least watched debate.

So, you know, that's when you get the really interesting things like Mitt Romney's like binder full of women comments. And, you know, you get really interesting things that emerge during that third debate. But now that the second debate looks like it's not going to happen, I don't know the third debate will. And Trump, I think it's a shame for the American people. I would love for those types of questions to be asked, but they're always asked, like, as a sidebar thing. Yeah. The last comment question we had on this subject was Lou Dobbs asking President Trump a few weeks ago about this. And he asked it as a last minute joke at the end of his show.

And he said, you know, President Trump, I just got to ask you about, you know, UFOs and da-da-da. And would you, would you, would you, were you going to be looking more into it? And he just said, you know, Lou, if I'm going to do that, I'm going to appoint you as my, is my, is my, my UFOs. expert and he just started laugh. They all chuckled back and forth and that was it. And he's like, that's the best answer I could have hoped for, Mr. President. And I was furious. I did on my show. I'm like, are you kidding me? That's the best. You're just a sycophant. You're a suck up sycophant. That's the best answer. No, that's the worst answer. Like Mr. President, you can joke about it. Answer the question. Right. No one will press any of these guys on these questions. They ask one time and

they don't do any follow up and that's it. And they move on and then we're done. It's so frustrating. Welcome to my life, man. I mean, no follow-up. No follow-up is probably the mantra of this entire thing. And like you said, like, you know, the last time it was mentioned in a debate was, I believe, with Kucinich, and it was political suicide. So I understand why maybe it's not something they want to broach. But I do wonder, you know, in these last few weeks, as things just continue to heat up and desperation sets in, if, Let's say the election goes not in Trump's favor or to his favor and he loses. Will he have some sort of mic drop? A lot of people think, you know, he's very unpredictable and he shoots from the hip and he says what he wants. Will we get something? I don't know. But I would think we would have gotten it by now, in my personal opinion.

Yeah, I think he's, I don't know. It's to me it's strange because Trump of all people, I thought would have been able to pull the wool back on this story. We all did, I think. Yeah. He might have let something slip. Because think about it. If he is kept from knowing something, he will probably push to be told about it. Right.

I'm the president of the United States. There's no, you've got to tell me. Right. So that to me would be shocking. And then on the other side, if he feels like some duty somehow, I just feel like he, His ego is too strong for him to not, you know, not bring it up, not talk about it. Not let us know that he knows. He reminds me of a high school, sorry, he reminds me of my college roommate who he had no life of his own.

And he was, he was so petty. And so if I were to go out with a girl or, you know, whatever, he'd be like, oh, where were you yesterday? You know, and I would tell him in confidence. And then I'd go to, like, lunch. And there's like six other guys sitting around. He was like, well, Clayton, you know, and tell where Clayton was yesterday. Like, you told these people, like, because it lifted him up in their eyes. So like, oh, yeah, Dave's the, or this, I don't know what I'm saying dames, but this guy's the gossip guy.

You know, he's always going to give us the goods. And the only reason we're sitting at this table with him is because he just likes to gossip and tell tales about other people. And I feel like in some ways, that's Trump. You know, like, like he's got the goods. he's going to just want to, and so I just can't imagine why he would be quiet on this subject. It's, it really is mind-boggling to me. I can't wrap my head around it. Yeah, it is. It is. And it will probably remain an enigma and mind-boggling to all of us. As these remaining weeks in America become extremely tumultuous as they've already been.

But kind of moving away from that, Clayton, you know, we got a little heavy with the politics. But, hey, man, it's bound to come up when it comes to. the mainstream media, first and foremost, and I'm so happy to get that inside look from you, because we don't get that often. You know, I think my first episode of Summer in the Skies was with UFO historian Richard Dolan, and we talked about media bias when it comes to the UFO topic. And look, that was back in 2016, so the world has changed, politics have changed, the UFO topic has changed. So to have that as a historical marker and to now cover it with you. We are living in a new world in so many ways. So I'm, I'm happy we're able to

tackle so much in this conversation. But man, hey, look, before we go, you're back. You're back with us in the UFO world and the paranormal world. So I have to ask you about what you got going on with a paranormal post. I just watched one of them this morning staircases in the woods, which absolutely terrified me. So tell us all about this new endeavor, man. Well, you know, I honestly owned the URL and name back when even before like Jim, Jim and I were doing our paranormal report. I, uh, I bought the rights to the paranormal post. Smart man. You know, I would love to do like a paranormal newspaper, um, that would cover the stories that you just don't get in the mainstream media. And I could, you know, and I just kept renewing that domain and every year, every year, every year. And I, I would bounce ideas off of Jim over the years. And I just. I was always so busy with my investing and my financial channel and all the what I do there that I just, it was always on the side. And it always just annoyed me because it would always stare at me.

And I knew it was my calling to be able to cover and talk about these types of things. So yeah, man, I just in the over the summer, the pandemic has been amazing in some ways and terrible in others. But it forced my hand to start to cover stories that I find just utterly fascinating. Like when I was in Loch Ness two years ago and witnessed what I will say to this day was some large creature in the water. Wow. And coming around the bend towards Fort Augustus and seeing what I saw and my wife, we both looked down and we're just like, holy smokes. And my son looks out the window and cars are all pulled over and we're looking at this thing. And it's not a log.

It's an undulating. So I cover that on the paranormal post. And it's, yeah, it's my new YouTube channel. We only have about 10 episodes right now. And we're putting just a ton of work into it. Stories of the unexplained UFOs. You know, I'm working on a big story right now that I've been doing interviews for and I'm excited about. So, yeah, covering like kind of current stuff, like, you know, like the what's going on with the New York Times stuff.

But then also looking at more historical stories going back 100 years. And there's so many stories, you know, and it's just so much fun to be able to tell these stories in a visual medium. And they're like 10, 12 minutes long. And I just, I love doing it. So it's just, yeah, it's just YouTube.com slash paranormal post. And it's my little side hobby project. And it's a lot of fun. Awesome.

That's what's most important. As long as it's fun, you know, and it's the same with my work. Like, it's a lot of work. I don't think people understand how much goes into these things we do. But they are labors of love. And, you know, everyone. Everyone always wonders like, oh, are they becoming rich from all this stuff? And are you kidding me? I'm in debt with this podcast. I can tell you that much. So it is definitely a passion project for many of us. But it's good to know that you find fun and joy in the work you do. And hey, like you said, stories are something we all have in common. We've been telling them since the dawn of humanity. And I think every story. has value. So, um, and that, that 10 minute marker, that's perfect. It's just enough to get

interested in something to then go look into it on your own. So yeah. Yeah, it's been crazy. And some of the stories I have to tell you because, and I don't talk about her much, and I will hear because it's a, you know, favorable audience. But my sister, my younger sister is a high level psychic medium. Um, and she does, she does, she does bookings and things like that for readings and stuff. And so I will run stories by her, like as I'm investigating a particular story, she will literally be in a house and see spirits, dead people. I mean, she's that very, very, very powerful. And the readings that she does are always spot on. I mean, she can tell you the date of when this child will be born.

She's that, she's that amazing. And so I will run stories by her. I will send, like, here's what I'm working on. Here's this image of this particular thing. What do you see? And I won't tell her anything about it. And she will give me details about it that confirm the story that I'm working on. And she knows nothing of the story.

And so, you know, that's that kind of stuff that I'd like to incorporate into my show when I can on certain stories. And I don't necessarily mention it. But it just adds that layer of validity to the story that I'm trying to tell on the show. So, yeah, she's amazing. Wow. Well, hey. You got to have her on the show. I don't know if you, I know if that fits into somewhere in the skies, but she'd

Oh, absolutely. Especially in October. Like, I'm all, I love the Halloween season. And listeners and viewers are going to be seeing some guests that they're probably not familiar with or have ever heard before. So, no, I would definitely love to reach out to her. And I can only imagine what, uh, what she's. seeing, hearing, or experiencing about the next few weeks here in America.

But, or the world, let's be honest. But, no, I would love to talk to her for sure. Yeah, I mean, it's crazy because I'll run stuff by her just in my personal life, just about how are we going to experience this thing? We went through two years ago, a really difficult time in our business and our life because of a business partner that lied to us and, like, defrauded us. And it was really awful. and she was able to then like tell us markers along the way about like what was going to happen

and was a tremendously eye-opening and helpful and healing too. You know, that's I think the purpose of it, right? It's not to be scared of this stuff. Absolutely. Yeah. And I mean, well, let me, you know, before we go here, I'd love, do you think people like that who can, who have these precog abilities or, or psychic abilities? do you think there is benefit to knowing something before it happens? Are you the kind of person who wants to just live it moment by moment?

You know, I think in many ways, if I've been able to cross paths with some really impressive, you know, high-level psychic mediums who I've been able to interview over the years, both at Fox and elsewhere, those who are certified by, you know, Winbridge Institute, I think there's only 19 certified Winbridge Institute, psychic mediums in the world. So these are people that the FBI uses regularly to solve crimes. Like this is not, I would literally be on the phone with one of them who's a close friend. And she couldn't, she's like, I have to go. The FBI needs me for this cold case on this or this missing child. Like that's literally. And they don't talk about it, but they use them all the time. So I think, you know, it can be very debilitating for some of them because as Laura Lynn Jackson

writes about in her book, The Light Between Us, you know, that, that, that, energy that you're giving away to other people can cause autoimmune diseases and you're basically allowing other people to invade your energy on a regular basis. So that's, I think, the biggest concern and you really have to like build that. My sister had to learn how to protect herself because she would be at a stoplight. She wouldn't know that the house on the corner was haunted and that there was some really horrible event that had happened there. And she just would be overwhelmed to the point of bawling her eyes out. And she had to learn how to really protect herself from it.

And then later she'd learned that there was like a triple homicide in the house. So these things would present themselves to her. So I think sometimes obviously it can be helpful. It can help you navigate your world. But it can also, you can allow too much of your energy to get, you can give too much of yourself away. And so I think for somebody like that who's a very sensitive person, an empath, a very high level sensitive person. You can experience autoimmune diseases for giving their energies away.

And so I think there's a level of protection that needs to happen there. So I don't know enough about it to go into it. I've found out that I'm an empath, like that that's one of my areas of feeling like I feel people's energy. We all have one of these in our life, one of these sort of five energies. And that's where mindsets so I can walk into a Starbucks and I can literally feel the energy of everyone in that room and I can feel that that person is mad over there and I can you can just sense energies. And so I think that's in many ways why I'm a bit of an introvert because to go out in large group settings, I end up feeling all of these energies at one time and it can be, it can be overwhelming, I think, to people.

Yeah, I think I'm kind of on the same frequency as you, man. I'm the same way. I'm an introvert and I don't do well in large crowds because I am. overwhelmed by the energy. So I'm with you on that. I think there's a reason we're talking for almost an hour and a half longer than I told you we would talk today. I think that's true. And I don't apologize. I really feel like I, the reason I'm able to have like an hour and a half long conversation with someone almost always, it's because that person is an empath. And it's because we are introverts and we experience those energies and it affects us in a deep way. You know,

I see your tweets. I mean, I see how passionate, you know, like, you know, I get it. And I'm the same way. And it's, it's hard. And we feel things more, we feel things harder, I think, than other people do. And, but then we lack certain other skills, you know. So, you know, it's just, it's just our way of feeling energy, I think. I think so. And I'm sure there are many listeners who feel the same way. So, you know, take it for what it is and run with it and know everyone's a little different. And, um, and, um, and, um, and, um, and, um, Everyone has their own baggage to bring to everything in this life. So I think the more empathy and understand we have, the better the world's going to get. And hopefully that will get us that place at the intergalactic table with these aliens, man. I hope so. I feel like they are whizzing past us right now being like, good luck with all that. But who knows? But man, this has been so refreshing, so fun to really stretch out and talk.

And before we go, where can we find everything you're up to? If there's anything else you want to share with us, yeah, please give it to us. Yeah, man, I think if you know, if you're of like-minded and you're interested in the paranormal, just I think my new YouTube channel, just YouTube.com slash paranormal post is my fun. Like I said, we've got about 10 episodes up there right now. We just did a story about faceless human beings. and these creatures that are being witnessed by truck drivers and people all over the place where seeing these creatures on the side of the road with no face and showing up in people's bedrooms and things.

So really fascinating. I'm living in Hawaii right now, man. And that's one of the biggest, like, folklore tales here from the Japanese culture is the faceless woman. And every time I hear about it. about it. I'm like, no, I'd rather a gray alien visit me in my room. Like, I can't deal with this faceless thing. No thank you.

When I lived in, or not lived in Hawaii, I visited Hawaii and I insisted on going on the ghost tour of the volcanic ruins, but there was all sorts of interesting, like the giant cave that's there, the burial grounds and at nighttime, and it was super creepy

and fun to be along like the water and hearing the water, the waves, and the stories of the, oh, it's good stuff. My speed, my speed. Yeah, yeah. And I'm actually going to have one of the local ghost storytellers on the show very soon as well. So it might even be the person who took you on these tours. Who knows? Oh, cool, cool. I can't wait. That'll be fun. But Clayton, thank you so much, brother. This has been an absolute pleasure to have you on. We'll have to have you back again. And I have to thank you for being so open and honest with us about how this topic is discussed in the mainstream media, giving us that

inside perspective. And look, things are changing rapidly in our world with this topic. I can only hope we can all come together and find some answers. But you are part of that equation. And I have to thank you for coming on somewhere in the skies. Well, thank you so much. And thank you, Ryan, for being such a great inspiration to this community and the professionalism and the perfectionism with which you produce and tell these stories and bring light to these.

I just hope your audience knows that, you know, it's not easy. Like, from the media perspective, what you do and the level of perfection and polish that you're able to put on what you, you know, your stories that you're able to put out there. And you are a beacon of light. And so you should be proud of that. And I hope your audience really knows that. So thank you for having me. It's been a true, true pleasure and an honor. Thank you.

Well, the pleasure was all mine. And I learned from the best brother. So to you and Jim Harold, thank you for being my inspiration. And keep looking up, my man. Thank you, man. Thanks so much. Somewhere in the Skies is produced by Third Kind Productions, in association with the Entertainment One Podcast Network.