Somewhere in the Skies - Confessions of a UFO Investigator

Episode Date: December 30, 2018

On episode 89 of SOMEWHERE IN THE SKIES, Ryan welcomes Shane Hurd to the show. After the Phoenix Lights Incident of 1997, Hurd felt compelled to start looking into the UFO phenomenon and would eventually become a MUFON Field Investigator. Hurd discusses some the most compelling cases he has personally investigated through MUFON. He then dives deep into some of the articles he's written at Rogue Planet. What famous UFO event is the late John McCain connected to? And why are UFOs so damn silent? This and much more on this week's show! Guest Bio: Shane Hurd has spent his career in the fields of Civil Engineering, Geographic Information Systems, Information Technologies, and is a graduate of Arizona State University’s Certified Public Manager program. As a member of the space race generation, he has been a lifelong space and science nerd, and sci-fi geek. It was the Phoenix Lights Incident in his hometown of Phoenix, Arizona that sparked his interest in UFOs. Since that time, he has studied the subject and ultimately joined MUFON as a field investigator. He is a musician, amateur astronomer, horse owner, and enjoys a good bourbon now and then. Patreon: www.patreon.com/somewhereskies Website: www.somewhereintheskies.com YouTube Channel: CLICK HERE Official Store: CLICK HERE Order Ryan's Book by CLICKING HERE Twitter: @SomewhereSkies Instagram: @SomewhereSkiesPod Opening and Closing Theme Song, "Ephemeral Reign" by Per Kiilstofte SOMEWHERE IN THE SKIES is produced by Third Kind Productions, in association with eOne Entertainment SOMEWHERE IN THE SKIES is sponsored by HelloFresh. To receive 50% off your first order, use promo code: SOMEWHERE50 at checkout by visiting www.HelloFresh.ca Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/somewhere-in-the-skies. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey y'all, Ryan Spreck here. As you all know, the Somewhere in the Sky's podcast is always free to consume, but it isn't free to create. That's why I've started the Somewhere in the Sky's Patreon campaign. On a monthly basis, you give what you think the show is worth. You'll be helping the show continue, grow, and to be something truly communal. And remember, there are rewards for each level of contribution, and the list is only growing. So please, help Somewhere in the Skies now by becoming a page.

To contribute and to learn more, visit www.patriot.com backslash SomewhereSkies. Thank you for your support. And now on with the show. This is Somewhere in the Skies with Ryan Spread. Welcome to Somewhere in the Skies. I'm your host Ryan Sprigg. Today on the show, we talk to former government employee and UFO investigator Shane Hurd. Shane has spent his career in the fields of civil engineering, geographic information systems, and information technologies. It was the Phoenix Lights incident in his hometown of Phoenix, Arizona, that sparked his interest in UFOs. Since that time, he studied the subject and ultimately joined

Mufon as a field investigator. Today, we talk about some of the most compelling cases he's investigated, and then we dive deep into some of his fascinating articles he's written over at Rogue Planet. How was the late John McCain connected to the Rendlesham Forest UFOs? incident. And why do a huge number of UFO reports involve witnesses claiming complete silence during a sighting? This and so much more right now. Shane, thank you so much for joining me today on Somewhere in the skies. Oh, thanks so much for having me. I'm excited. I am excited to finally get you on. It's taken long enough, my friend. Well, fellow planeteers, too. Exactly. Yes. For those who don't know, Shane is one of our Rogue Planetiers over at Rogue Planet. TV. So check out all of his articles over there. We're going

to be bringing some of them up tonight, so I'm excited to do that. They can get a little tease of what you've been up to over there. But before we even get to that, Shane, I want to know, since this is going to be airing right at the end of December, what is your favorite UFO event or case or human story from this past 2018, putting me on the spot here. Anything really stick out to you? Oh, boy. Yeah, I mean, a lot's happened, right? I'd have to say anything related to A-TIP.

That is fascinating to me right now. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, we had, what, it's been almost a year now since we learned from the New York Times, from to the Stars Academy about this secret Pentagon UFO program. And I mean, a lot of us probably had some inclinations that something was going on behind the scenes. But the fact that the Pentagon was investigating this stuff, that was news to me, man. I don't know about you. Yeah, I think that's huge.

I mean, for me, I would even say this is one of the most significant events that have incurred in uphology. And I don't know how long. I mean, when you think about it for the better part of 50 years, whatever that is, from 1969 on, the United States government has denied until they're blue in the face that they had any interest whatsoever in UFOs. They weren't researching them. They didn't care about them. And anybody that did was a lunatic. I mean, we all know that's the way it's been.

But I think one of the coolest things is, and this is kind of selfish, and I'll say we when I talk about uphology, it really was a vindication of the UFO community because all along he had been saying, oh, yeah, the government, it is interested and it is studying them, but we had no proof. And then this came out, and it's like, hey, you know what? No, we're not stupid. We're not fanatics. We're not conspiracy theorists. What we are is right. And you know, you lied to us the whole time. So I think that is a bit of vindication and it felt good to hear it.

That is a really good point. I remember when this story first broke before I could even really get excited about it. I was going around telling everyone, I told you so. I told you so. And now, I mean, we've got almost a year since the story broke, like I said. earlier, and we're learning a lot about the program. I mean, we're learning that there was a sub-program called, ah, what was it? Osap, I believe. And this is like an offshoot with Bob Bigelow and Skinwalker Ranch. And this story just gets stranger and stranger, man. When we look at

it, $22 million was allocated to this A-TIP program to investigate UFOs. Now, you and I both know, and I'm sure most of the listeners know, that's not a lot of money. when it comes to government funding, first of all. But now we're learning that a lot of that wasn't given to just search for UFOs or investigate UFO cases. It was being given to a program to study this very secretive, highly paranormal ranch in Utah. So what do you make of the whole Skin Walker Ranch thing? We have the documentary come out this past year by Jeremy Corbell.

And this place just seems to be a haven for weird stuff. us. Yeah, absolutely. I did read the 2005 book and I did see Jeremy's film and it's fascinating and it's actually, you know, pretty scary and it's hard to wrap your head around, you know, what it is. But the fact that, you know, this was a scientific approach, you know, scientists studied this. And, you know, as we begin to learn, government was in fact involved. And, you know, this was taken quite seriously and some very, very strange stuff has been studied and at least verified that it occurs. I'm sure they still don't know exactly what it is, but yeah, definitely weird stuff. And to that connection between, you know, A-Tip, A-S-A-A-A-S, Bass from Bigelow and Nids,

to see that all these things are fitting together or, you know, have some connections, I mean, I would never have even connected those dots. And to find out that they are, it's just that's another fascinating study into a different, you know, the structure of uphology. I mean, you know, it's wild. It is. And the fact that this sort of rogue entrepreneur billionaire is the one tapping into all these things, you really do have to wonder, like, what is his personal motivation? Bob Bigelow, we're talking about behind all of this. What is he hoping to gain? Does he want that one answer to the UFO mystery? Or what is it that is really driving this guy to get his fingers in all these paranormal pots as it were? I really do wonder that.

Yeah, it's hard to figure. But you know what? I'm glad he did. I'm glad he's involved. I mean, think about what would you do or what would I do if we had a billion dollars to spend? And, you know, we're going to, we're going to spin it on uphology, right? We're going to try and figure stuff out. And so to me, it's just really cool that somebody who has that kind of power and those resources are utilizing them to, you know, study this topic. And, you know, hopefully something's going to come from it that will all be able to benefit from. Right. That will all be able to benefit from them. That's a really good way of looking at it.

When a lot of people ask me, like, what do you want out of euphology? What do you want? Do you want to give, you know, do you want the public to know the truth about everything? And yeah, of course, my short answer is yes, I want the public to know the truth. But at the end of the day, Shane, I think this is a deeply personal journey for all of us. And at the end of the day, I want those answers for myself. Yeah. It's a very selfish field as well.

Yeah. But, you know, I mean, that's natural, right? We all do want to do want to know the answer to this mystery. But yeah, I'm kind of, I'm in that place too. where that's the destination, which it would be really great to get there. But I don't want to overlook the journey. I enjoy the journey to get there. And I realize maybe in my lifetime we're not going to get to the destination.

We won't know that answer. So if I just focused on that, I would probably get discouraged, you know. But I'm focusing on the journey. And I find it completely fascinating. The people and the information and all that goes with it is just a trip. You know, I just love it. I couldn't. From one weirdo to another, should.

I couldn't agree more. It really is about the journey. I want to know how that journey sort of began for you. How did you first get interested in UFOs? What made you eventually become a UFO investigator? I look back and I asked myself that question because, you know, I had a background that was, you know, quite religious and this whole concept, you know, wasn't really, looked at favorably let's say i'm now no longer involved in that and not related to the uphology but as a

result of that you know i have been able to pursue this more deeply but i was eight years old when we landed on the moon and so like every other kid in america i wanted to be an astronaut and you know just interested in all things space and i'm a total space geek uh but along with that is you know interest in sci-fi and of course UFOs but i didn't really personally sue it, you know, as a child and then young adult, and then I got caught up in life, you know, got married and had a kid and tried to, you know, earn a living and just really didn't focus on that until something happened. And I can say I've never seen a UFO. I've never had a paranormal experience at all. I'm doing this just out of intellectual curiosity. But in 1997, I was a resident,

still am, a Phoenix, Arizona. And when that Phoenix Lights incident happened, I mean, I know where I was, that night. Again, I didn't see anything, but we were at some friends' house about 35 miles north of Phoenix. We were having dinner, and then we're going to look through the telescope at the Hellbop comet. And so a lot of people were doing that that evening. So this is probably why there's so many people who made reports, but I was not one of them. But I was very captivated by the media coverage, you know, that night and for many months or years, really, after, there was just so much coverage of it. And I thought to myself, you know, there must be something to this. And so I started watching, you know, your typical UFO shows on cable, you know, UFO files and other

things, and didn't really seriously pursue it, but it had my attention. And then in 2010, I decided, well, I'm going to read a book. I just happened to cross the book the day after Roswell, written by Corso and Burns. I read that thing. and, you know, no offense to anyone. But at the time, I thought, you know, this is just not entirely credible to me. And I almost decided to bag the whole thing then, but I thought, well, you know, you should read more than just one book to see. And then the next book I read was Linda Kane's book, UFOs, you know, pilots, generals, and public officials go on the record. And that one blew me away.

I mean, it was written, you know, by a professional investigative journalist and the cases she selected were, you know, excellent. and lots of, you know, case data. And I thought, okay, now this is some credible stuff. So I quickly learned a lesson that neufology, kind of have wheat and you have chaff. And you've got to have the ability to, you know, identify those. And then I followed those up. I had the good fortune of stumbling across Richard Dolan's two volumes of UFOs

and the national security state, I think, is what they're called. And I thought those were fantastic because his style of writing, you know, as an academic, you know, came across. cross and he was profiling, I think, mostly like Blue Book cases. And it was just kind of like case after case. And, you know, these people were having these experiences. And how could thousands of people, you know, have these experiences and they're not be something to it? So at that point, I was hooked. I was convinced that there's something to this. And so, you know, I consumed everything I could on UFOs, every book, documentary, whatever. And then I got to a point where I'm not saying I knew

at all, but, you know, I felt like, well, you know, kind of have all this knowledge. What am I to do with it? And I'm just the kind of person that, you know, I got to play. I got to engage. I got to, you know, I can't just sit there and watch. I've got to get my hands dirty. And so, I look for an opportunity to kind of interject myself into euphology instead of just being a consumer. I wanted to, you know, participate. And I looked around and since I had, I've been a government employee for 20 years and been in the corporate sector before. And I knew, I could thrive and function well in a large organization. And, of course, my attention had been drawn to move on, you know, an organized effort to, you know, accomplish something in uphology.

So I joined. And then for about three years, I was just a member. And then I decided, yeah, you know, I'd be interested in becoming an investigator. And I'm about three years away from retirement at that time. And I thought, well, I'm going to wait until I retire. But I had attended a Mufon meeting and Jim Mann had talked to me and he convinced me, go ahead and do it now and, you know, we won't overload you because I was worried about, you know, family and work and all that.

And I didn't want to get involved and not be able to, you know, do it justice. So he said, we'll be easy on you, you know, the caseload and stuff. And so he held true to his word. I'm managing it. I've done maybe 40, 45 cases. and, you know, it has been the best experience of my life. I mean, the people I've met, the things that I have learned is just fantastic. See, that's the thing.

I am not a member of Mufon, and I never really, I didn't realize how big the caseload actually is for investigators. And what a lot of people don't realize is that you do volunteer for these things. It's not like investigators are getting paychecks like Molder and Scully did, you know. I mean, this is out of your own time, your own pocket most of the time, and a passion to help people who've had these experiences. So for you to say like 40, 45 cases or whatnot, that's astounding to me that that many cases are just in one area of the United States and that these things are happening in every state, every country, every continent, all over the world. So, God, that number just, that amazes me. Yeah, I think we have over 100,000 cases in the database. Wow.

If you can imagine that, yeah. And not enough investigators, I would assume. No, no, there's not. But, you know, we do the best that we can. And, you know, we do look into every report. Every report is investigated. And, you know, there's even a time frame. This episode is brought to you by Netflix.

Most valuable promotions in Netflix are hosting a blockbuster triple headliner Saturday, May 16th. Rhonda Rousey returns to face fellow woman's MMA pioneer Gina Carano in the main event. Plus co-main's Nate Diaz versus Mike Perry. And the best heavyweight in the world, Frances Ngano versus Felipe Lenz. Watch Rhonda Rousey versus Gina Carrano, live only on Netflix. Saturday, May 16th at 9 p.m. Eastern Center time, 6 p.m. Pacific time. special circumstances, you know, it can go longer, but the idea is to, you know, keep these things moving and, you know, really respond to people because if somebody has had an experience,

you know, it's mostly a traumatic thing, at least a, you know, emotionally impacting thing. And you want to, you know, you want to address that for people. You want to help them. You know, you may not be able to identify what it was or what it was not. But in the end, you know, they've got it off their chest, somebody listened to them, they weren't being judgmental. And, you know, it makes them feel good that, hey, you know, my experience has gone into the historical record forever. And it is. It's a closure for a lot of people, too. I mean, I spent two years going around the country interviewing people about their experiences, everything from lights in the sky, which we should put, we should tell people too. I mean, just seeing lights in the sky can be a very, very powerful thing for some people. You know, it might seem mundane, but for someone else, it might be paradigm shifting.

And, you know, I spoke to people up to claiming abduction experiences or close encounters. So a lot of the time, just telling it to someone can be enough for them. And if that's what we can do, then, you know, besides finding an answer to it, then I think that's a good thing for sure as investigators. Well, I have to ask you, among all of those investigations you've done, are there any cases you're willing to share with us or can share with us that really stood out to you? There's a couple. Let's just say I've done, say, 40-some cases. Out of those 40-some, I think four or five, about 10 percent ended up being a true unknown. And I guess you could say we would call that a genuine UFO. I mean, it's unknown. I wasn't there.

I didn't see it, so I can't say what it was. No one can prove what they are yet, right? But a true unknown, and it's a pretty rigorous investigation, and I think the 10% shows you that that investigative process does eliminate a lot of misidentifications. I think out of all those cases, maybe I had one that was a hoax, And it wasn't like an outright hoax. It was more like they probably knew what it was and that it wasn't a UFO, but they wanted to make the reporting, like kind of a thing.

But that's a very, very low percentage of the cases. Most of them are misidentifications, but others are not. And so one of the ones that comes to my mind was kind of interesting. And again, these are all going to kind of sound bizarre. And I'm not just focusing on, you know, the ultimate outcome. But, you know, again, the process is pretty interesting. you can just see kind of how weird it is and it's a difficult thing to get your head around but it can be done so the first case um comes my mind is a uh happening green valley Arizona which is kind of outside of

Tucson and there was a couple who were driving home one evening it was about eight in the evening and they were going from dairy queen to their house and it's an area where there's some subdivisions but they're adjacent to just open desert and you know if you live here or been here, you, you know, can kind of get your head around what that looks like. And so it's pitch black out in the desert. And so they were driving along the road that kind of like on the left side were subdivisions on the right was this open desert. And they saw light in the distance. And, you know, there's air traffic around there and stuff. So they kind of thought, you know, it's probably an airplane, but it's bright enough that it caught their attention. And then it

began to get closer and closer and closer to where they estimated maybe it was like five miles out and looking at it, it became clear that it was no airplane. And in fact, what it looked like to them was a vertical pencil, maybe a hundred feet tall. And the bottom portion of it was red. Top portion was like yellow. They said it kind of reminded them like a lightsaber. You know, it had this light emanating from it, but it didn't cast, you know, light shadows and things like that. And so they pulled the car over and were looking at it. And then all of a sudden, in the blink of an eye, it jumped to about a mile away from them where they got a pretty good look at it. And then in the next instance, it jumped and it was right over their car.

And so they were looking through the windshield at this thing. And they could see, you know, the bottom portion, but it was so tall that, you know, out the windshield, the roof of the car blocked the view from, you know, from the rest of it. And it stayed there. They were to shock, both of them, the husband and wife. And, you know, these are high. highly educated people, master's degrees, these, you know, seemed to be very credible people. And they were just floored by it. And they just sat there stunned. And then the thing just blinked out. And so then they headed home and they talked about it. And, you know, they just couldn't, you know, come up with any explanation. They went through the whole airplane, balloon.

Was it a cell tower? Was it power lines? Was it blah, blah, blah. And, you know, in the investigative process, we kind of do the same thing. You find out, you know, I contacted the military bases nearby the sheriff's department, you know, the local newspapers and, you know, you check for reports either in Mufon or Newfork or API and all these things and could find, you know, nothing. And so in the end, you know, I had to call it an unknown because there just, there was no conventional explanation that would explain that. So I thought that was kind of a cool one. And then we had another one that was a couple that hiked down in the Grand Canyon. And, you know, for people that don't know, it's a pretty good hike down in there.

And then, you know, it's like 10 or 12 miles or something to there's a ranch. Oh, you have. Yeah. I never have, see, so. Oh, it's amazing. You've got to get out there, man. Yeah, I heard this is beautiful. But down there, there's, you know, it's fairly remote.

There's some cabins in a lodge, but, you know, no roads or anything, lights and all that. and it's fairly primitive. And they were walking down a trail, and it was dark already. But you could see, you know, the canyon walls and then the sky above it and a little bit of moonlight and that kind of thing. And they saw a couple lights that were dancing around up there, you know, clearly above the canyon wall. And they descended down to below the canyon wall.

And then they were zipping back and forth in the canyon. And this was probably, you know, a quarter mile away from them. And they were just fascinated by this thing, and they were watching and watching. Eventually, they flew off back over the top of the cannon wall and were gone. And so, you know, one of the things I checked was, you know, with the Rangers, hey, do you guys allow drones down there? And it's like absolutely not. That's against the law. Well, could there have been like a media company filming and have a license to do and stuff?

And they said, no, no way. You know, clearly it wasn't an airplane or helicopter. you would hear them and they certainly wouldn't be flying, you know, below the canyon walls. And then, of course, you know, I was seeing, you know, the only reasonable explanation would be a drone, but I could not find any evidence of that. You know, I have a hard time imagining, you know, a couple guys would backpack drones down in there 12 miles or whatever it is and just fly them around in the dark. I mean, it's rough terrain.

You could easily lose your drone. I mean, I just didn't see that as being a possible. or a likely one. And so that ended up being an unknown and, you know, who knows what it was. Yeah. See, I mean, that true unknown, if 99% of these things can be explained, it's that it's that true unknown, that 1% that keeps us going, I think. Yeah, absolutely. It is. It's fascinating. Those sounded great, man. Thank you for sharing those with us. I know a lot of Mufon cases are confidential, but no, I really appreciate you bringing those forward. I did want to sort of circle around to some really interesting articles that I also came across of yours over at Rogue Planet.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. So you recently started writing for Rogue Planet maybe what, like a year ago or so? Yeah, or six months or so, yeah. Okay, cool. It's fascinating. Yeah, yeah, I was so excited when I saw your first article pop up over there. If anyone's interested, just go torogPlanet.tv.

We talk about all different weird stuff over there, but we've got our resident Mufon field investigator right over there too. So the first one that really caught my attention, you know, we had the recent passing, unfortunately, of Senator John McCain. And a lot of people may not have known this, but he actually has a connection to a very well-known UFO event, the Rendlesham Forest incident. And you did a good write-up about this connection. So I'd love maybe if you could briefly run us through, how the hell was Senator John McCain connected to a UFO event? Yeah, I was fascinated by that too. And obviously as a resident of Arizona, I, you know,

I had a lot of occasion to hear John McCain and to see him. And, you know, he was, he's, maybe I didn't always agree with his politics and stuff. But, you know, he definitely is, is, you know, an interesting guy. He was, you know, very intelligent. And he basically, I mean, honestly, he just loved a good fight. And what happened in this case was many people are familiar with the Randlesham case. And in that incident, two soldiers, Jim Peniston and John Burroughs, came in contact with a UAP, you know, an unidentified aerial phenomena, something that landed on the ground. and they were in very close proximity to it.

Without rehashing the whole case, you know, fast forward, John developed some health issues. And, of course, as a former soldier, you know, he would receive treatment through the VA. And when he was having this health issue, the VA doctors requested that he get his medical records. Well, when he went to do that, he was told you can't have him. because they're classified. And it's like, what? Whose medical records are classified? You know, that was very weird.

And so he researched and found it was related to the fact that he was part of that Randall Schum case. And so he was desperate to get those records because his health issue was life-threatening. And the doctors needed his case history to find out what was going on. And so he kind of exhausted all of his resources and, you know, ability to get the records and, you know, the military just wasn't going to budge. And so as a resident of Arizona at the time, he decided, well, I'm going to see what John McCain can do. Again, as I mentioned, John McCain, he's always up for a good fight, especially if, you know, there's an underdog or

or he thinks, you know, there's some injustice being done. You know, that's the kind of thing that he just lived to tangle with. So especially as a former veteran, I would assume, too. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, absolutely. So he went to bat for. for John and ultimately he was able to get those records released. John was able to provide those to his doctors. He received that medical treatment. And of course, he's, you know, with us today because of it. And really, that's the connection of John McCain.

Not necessarily directly a UFO issue for him. He was helping a, you know, a fellow soldier. And he was trying to write a wrong that he felt had been perpetrated against him. and, you know, he threw his weight around and he got it done. So when John had died, you know, I was really kind of moved by that. And I thought, you know, this is just something I got to share with people because I'm certain it's a side to him that no one knew about. And so for people in uphology, you know, there's a connection even to John McCain. Absolutely.

And, you know, in terms of the Rendlesham Forest Inc. And John Burroughs' involvement, this is one of the first documented cases where, veteran affairs admitted that someone's health issues were directly connected to a UFO event. That is a huge step for uphology, in my opinion. Oh, absolutely. And I think even in fact with Project Kondyne that the Ministry of Defense had put together, they buried in like the 600 pages was a matrix or a chart that showed the types of injuries that people sustain when exposed to certain types of UAP.

Now, that blew my mind. You mean there is enough encounters that they're aware of that affected people in a medical way that they could create a matrix or a chart and associate injuries with a type of UFO. I mean, that's a mind-blower. And, of course, that likely was speaking of John as part of those statistics.

Well, Shane, there's some really interesting, articles I came across as well over at Rogue Planet from you. One of them that really caught my attention to is something I came across a lot in my own UFO research. And that's an article you titled, Why the Silence During a UFO Citing. So could you maybe run us through what prompted this article and just exactly what you came up with in terms of theories of why so many people report complete silence during a UFO sighting? I know I personally had this. happened to me too during my event. So I'd love to hear what you got on this one. Oh, that is very cool. I didn't know that you had experienced it yourself. I did. Yeah. Yeah, that's amazing. And to me,

so the way this happened is, you know, in some of my investigations, other individuals had that experience as well. And it became part of my standard questions when interviewing a reporting person. and, you know, I asked them, you know, did you notice, you know, any unusual noises or odors and, you know, kind of the other senses that you don't necessarily think of when you're, you see a UFO, you're all focused on the visual stuff, right? Right. But there's these peripheral things that, to me, that is a form of physical evidence. And so I was really fascinated by that. What is it that's happening? And it's happened, it happens frequently in these cases. And, you know, so, you know, I wanted to know is, is, you know, how, how common is this? And is, is there an explanation for it? And so, you know, I kind of just illustrated a few things in the article like, you know, have you ever been walking through the woods, you know, most of us have at some point,

you know, there's leaves rustling and there's crickets and birds and, you know, things going on all around you. And I don't know if you've had the experience where they just suddenly stop and go quiet. And, you know, it could be like, you know, maybe there's a predator out there and all the little critters know, ooh, you know, I better be quiet or I'm going to be somebody's lunch. Maybe that happens. Or, you know, when it snows, a real heavy snow and you're out of doors and it just has that dampening effect on the environment. So, you know, there are some very real properties of physics that explain how, in some cases, the noise is stuards. stop. However, with a UFO, obviously the presence of that UFO is a factor, right? And so,

you know, how could you explain this? Is this, does, let's say, their propulsion system or something about them, do they create some kind of field that has an impact physically on the environment? Maybe there's a bubble, you know, plasma or something, or, you know, whatever, around them that blocks out, you know, sound waves. Or, you know, is there something about the craft that maybe has a physical effect on us? You know, it interrupts what our ears can do, can hear. Or maybe it's, you know, affecting the environment and sound waves can't travel through it. Or I don't know. You know, I don't know what the reason is. However, to me, it looks very much like physical evidence. there is making an impact on our environment that are subject to our rules of physics.

And so to me, that would be a very interesting thing to study to try and recreate. And it might help zero in on what kind of technology is being used by these crafts to produce that kind of an effect. So I just, you know, it's just one of the things I kind of fascinated about. So I decided I'll write an article, put it out there. And I got a lot of comments back. I mean, some really great theories that people put forth. And it's obvious many people are aware of this and have given it some thoughts. So that was probably one of my most fun articles in terms of the response that I got back.

Because I'm sure everyone has their own theories on it. For me, personally, like I attributed it to my own, you know, fear or adrenaline or just, you know, when something so immediate happens and you feel like things go in slow motion. You know, that's the one thing. That's kind of what I attributed in my senses failing me at the time to. But when you look at these external forces, you know, that maybe the craft itself for technology or occupants of said technology are involved with that, that's when it's really fascinating. So that's so cool that you got such a big reaction to that one because I'd honestly never seen anyone else write about that. There's been some books written on, you know, paranormal stuff on, you know, odors and, you know, sounds and this and that. When it comes to UFOs, I'm going to tell you, man, you're probably one of the pioneering people writing about that.

Oh, that's interesting. Yeah, I don't know. It just really caught my attention. So I just had to have to say something about it. Awesome. Well, I'm sure your research on that has only begun. But there's another case that has been researched to hell and back. That is the Roswell UFO incident. Yes. So we've got a reboot of the Roswell TV show coming back very soon. This case is known all over the world.

It's a part of pop culture. And you recently had the opportunity to go to Roswell for the Roswell UFO Festival with Jason McClellan, our mutual rogue planeteer. So how was that experience? I recently made a trip to Roswell for reasons that are still classified, but I'll get to that in the very near future. But how was that experience? And I want to know what your personal stance on the Roswell case is. I'm putting you on the spot again, my friend. Okay, yeah, that's fair enough.

It was an absolute ball. We had a great time. You know, I've attended several UFO conferences, of course, and they're, you know, they're fairly academic. and, you know, and it's more about, you know, the information and all that stuff, which is great, love it, not a criticism of it at all, love it. But I really never got involved in really what I'd say is kind of the pop culture side of euphrology. And the fact is that that Roswell Fessel is just flat fun.

I mean, people are dressed up. There's booths everywhere. There's bands and they're all dressed up like aliens. And, you know, every, every shop in the world. that town. I mean, they shut down like eight square blocks of the of the downtown and every business had stuff in their windows and people coming in and out and, you know, they had food trucks and stages and just all of this stuff. And it was so fun because everybody there was having fun about this topic and enjoying it. You know, it was something I had never experienced. I just, I got

such a kick out of it. It was a total ball. Now, as far as my view of the case, I mean, as you mentioned, it's been talked about more than any other case, probably. And I think my idea has changed as I became an investigator a little bit on it. But I will say this, where there is smoke, there is fire. Okay. And that's proven true in life and many areas of life. And even in my investigations with Mufant, I mean, there is something to that case. There's no doubt about it.

Now, ultimately what it is, we may never know. Or we may find, you know, a revelation and admission or something on the part of the government in the years to come that, you know, really reveals what happened. But you just can't have hundreds of people involved in something, you know, just making it all up. Now, you know, there's bits and pieces and, you know, how a story can change and all those things over time. from person to person, but to me, at its core, there had to be something quite extraordinary. And I will always think this, that there is no way that the military released a press release saying, we caught a flying disc by accident. That was not going to happen.

So then they had to go backtrack and undo what they did. So, you know, why? I don't know. But like I said, I think where there's smoke, there's fire, there's something to that case. and, you know, there's been some really good work, of course, Stan Friedman and Don Schmidt and Tom Carrey and others that, you know, have really dug into this thing. And there is a lot of detail, a lot of detail. You just have to look for it. So what you hear on TV and kind of just banning about social media and things like that, it's just really the tip of the iceberg. And there's a ton of facts and data behind that. So what it is, I don't know. But I think there, you're, you know, is something to that case. Amidst the fun stuff at the festivals. And even when you go to the International UFO Museum in Roswell,

you know, it's a little cheesy. There's some, a lot of sci-fi pop culture sort of stuff around there. But then you dig it. It's kitschy. It is. It's kitschy. And it's fun. And that is, I'm learning the more I get involved in the UFO field is to, you have to have fun.

Or you are going to be depressed. as all hell with all this stuff. But amidst all of that kitsch, you look at some of these affidavits that they have at the museum from people involved. You know, there was one I recently came across from one of the like people that was on the plane that went from Roswell to Wright Patterson with the wreckage. And that was really one for me where I'm like, holy shit, man. Like, no matter what that wreckage was, what happened, the cover up was so deep and so big that like, whatever happened, it was clearly top, top, top, top secret. Even if it was from here, it was something super top secret. I still don't know where I lay on the whole thing, but something clearly important happened there, enough to silence hundreds of people and that it were.

remains a mystery up until today says a lot as well. Yeah, I totally agree. Well, here's another, you know, sort of pop culture-esque thing that's going to be making his way to the mainstream very soon, and that is Project Blue Book. Now, I am looking right now at your image, and you have a high-knick t-shirt, shameless plug for the high-knit t-shirt over at the somewhere in the skies store, if anyone's interested. And I highly recommend it. Oh, well, thank you, man. It's a fun one for sure. But I did that because I respect the work of J.L. and Heineck probably more than any UFO researcher out there.

And we're about to get a fresh take and look at him in the upcoming History Channel show Project Blue Book. So, I want to know, what do you think of this show? A lot, there's a lot of contention before this thing is even being released to the public about how accurate it's going to be. So what do you think about a fictional version of actual events coming to the mainstream public here soon with Project Blue Book? I actually have the privilege of attending a screening here in Phoenix of it earlier this month. And they played basically the first episode and they had the producer there. and then they had a panel after a panel discussion on it. And I am very excited for it.

I am stoked for it for several reasons. One is, you know what, it's UFO content. Anytime we can get any UFO content, I'm there. I mean, I love it. I appreciate it. I want to see it, hear it. And the fact that the History Channel is investing in this tells you that there's an appetite for this out in the public. And the more that good content comes out, it helps spread the method.

It helps people become acquainted. It reduces that taboo of not being able to talk about it. So from that perspective, I think, is totally awesome. The second thing is, you know, it's not a documentary. You will be disappointed if that's what you're expecting. It's not intended to be a documentary, and it's not one. What it is is a fictional drama, and it's a fictional drama based on true events. And we've seen other programs like that, and they can be very entertaining and good.

And this is meant to be entertainment, but it's entertainment on a subject that many people are interested in. And so, you know, this is being produced by Robert Zemeckis. He's a guy that did Back to the Future movies. And the quality of this program is second to none. I mean, the writing was terrific. The production value, the scenery, you know, it's sort of a period piece because obviously this started in the 40s and went through the 80s basically it's the life of jail and hynick so it's sort of a period piece and i mean it's visually stunning and it it almost has a feel and i don't want to make the comparison you know

in content so much but it almost has an x-files feel to it because you know the premises is he's investigating these blue book cases and they go to these you know locations and meet these people and all these events go on and they they hit all the right notes on kind of the modern euphological lore and, you know, the government's involvement and all that. And the casting is fantastic. One of the main character, I think, his name's Aidan Gillian. He's from, what's that show? I've never watched, but everyone likes Game of Thrones.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, they really are investing a lot in this. And, you know, I think they've done a terrific job with it. And, you know, my DVR is already set. Me, too, my man. I did have the pleasure of seeing the first six episodes of the show.

Oh, no way. I was granted the golden key for that, for some reason. I don't know. Oh, my gosh. I am totally jealous. I must have an inn somewhere over there at the History Channel. But I have to agree with you, Shane, this thing is stunning, everything from the costumes to the the special effects to the acting to the writing.

This is television at its finest. And I have no qualms with saying that at all. If you're going into this looking for a documentary, like you said, you're going to be very disappointed. This is a drama. It is a drama. That's what I'm trying to tell people. A lot of people are looking at it.

They're seeing this image of J. Ellen Heineck looking at an alien in a tube and saying, that never happened with Heineck. I can't believe they're doing this. And all I have to say is, just wait, wait and see. Because not everything is what it seems when it comes to this show. And that's the last excuse I'll give to it. I'll let the show stand on its own, speak for itself.

But the week after this episode is airing, we're going to hear from the creator and the showrunner of Project Blue Book. So I'll let them tell the audience what to expect. But I'm with you, man. I think this is just going to do a great service to, Jay Ellen Heineck, no matter if it is fictionalized or not, it's going to bring his life, his career, and the work of Project Blue Book to the mainstream. Absolutely. And that's a win-win for everybody.

Yep. I couldn't agree more. Well, sort of the last thing I want to touch on with you here, Shane, is disclosure, that big word with a capital D. A lot of people think it's already happened. A lot of people think it's never going to happen. So I have to ask, you as a UFO investigator and having been involved with this topic for a while now, what do you make of the whole disclosure movement or what do you consider disclosure of the UFO phenomenon? That's a very big question to ask you, but what do you make of all that disclosure? Yeah, so that is a great question and it is sort of a fundamental, you know, part of the lore of uphology and, you know, And rightly so, people are interested.

I mean, ultimately, it's a question if, you know, does somebody know, tell us so that we know too? But it's a little bit tricky subject. But in my opinion, the reality of the UFO phenomena has already been disclosed. It has been disclosed a million times. I'm exaggerating, but many times throughout history. And here's the thing. And this is, you know, I kind of go off on these tangents a little bit. in my thinking, but what fascinates me is, okay, why is there such disagreement or confusion on

what disclosure is in the first place? You know, I think, well, why can't anyone agree and, you know, what's going on? Well, when you think about it, not everybody views a given line of evidence as proof. And so, so let me just say, like, for example, there have been statements in government documents, that do in fact talk about the reality of UFOs. And there has been in the 40s, the 50s, the 60s, the 70s. And I'll say most recently with ATIP, I mean, to me, it has been disclosed that there are objects in our sky that we cannot identify, that display attributes that indicate they don't originate at the hands of human beings with our current technology. that's not even disputable anymore. I don't think. To me, that is disclosure. Now, of who they are and what they want and all of that, well, we certainly don't know that. Now, there could be people that do know that and they're keeping that to themselves, okay? But I don't think you can dispute the fact that there's a reality to the existence of these things. So, and it's been, you know, disclosed in documents over and over and over and over.

again and again like most most recently with with atyp you have the director of a semi-secret program to study these things and coming out saying yes we do it it's real we don't know what it is and they're producing evidence such as videos and testimony by radar operators and pilots and I mean what more do you want and so when I wrote that article that's kind of one of the things I approach is well what will people accept as form disclosure. Is it the president of the United States has to call a press conference and stand there and tell everybody like an Independence Day, hey folks, now we know we're not alone? I mean, for many people, it appears that is the only thing that they will accept as disclosure. Okay. But it's already happened

in terms of that. The reality of that being confirmed, and this is another word that's being thrown is thrown around as confirmation. You know, that these things are happening. So I think if we're waiting, if you're a person who's waiting for the government to do it in that way, I think you will likely never see it. The only way that's going to happen, the way that it will likely happen, in my opinion, would be that they make themselves known in a public way. It's up to them to disclose their presence to us because our government is not going to do it.

their fingers are too dirty. They have too much history. How do you explain that, yeah, oh, we've known about this for 70 years, but we kept the technology to ourselves, or we've weaponized it, and we've denied, you know, use of technology that could have freed us from fossil fuels 70 years ago and blah, blah, blah, but oh, forgive us, you know, never mind. I don't think that's going to happen. So it'll probably be disclosed in a way that most people would accept by them, not us.

Exactly. I think that's a good way to look at it. If there is some sort of non-human intelligence behind this controlled mechanism of the UFO phenomenon, it's going to be on their timetable. I couldn't agree more with you on that. It's never going to come from us, unfortunately. And I think to myself, why do we give the government that power? over us. Why do we say the only way we're going to believe it is if they say it? I mean, it's, I make us kind of a smart comment in the article, but that's like saying the only way that we're going to believe that the rooster's disappearance is if we, you know, ask the fox.

Yeah. You know, the fox has to tell us that the rooster disappeared. I mean, it's just, it's not the right place to go to ask, ask that question and expect an honest answer. So, No, and the government is much dumber than people think in so ways. No offense, I know you were a former government employee, so. And no offense to you, Shade. Oh, no, none taken. You know, at the time of recording this, we're probably going to see another government shutdown. It's clear that the government is so compartmentalized that they probably wouldn't know what the UFO phenomenon was to begin with.

No, absolutely. And I even kind of use that logic in my own case, working within any large organization doesn't even have to be government. You know, you don't know what the guy five cubicles over does every day necessarily or, you know, on another floor and another building. I mean, you know, it's almost like a family that you have a certain way of doing things and certain information. Well, you don't hang your dirty laundry out for everyone to see. You don't tell everybody all these things that could be embarrassing. It's not that you're trying to be secretive. or hide things is just, hey, that stuff's not anyone else's business, you know. And I think

organizations are like that as well. You know, I'm not going to go out and advertise something that's really just our personal business, and not that I'm hiding it. So I think, you know, that happens in government and the left hand doesn't know what the right hand's doing. There's a lot of reasons for that, you know, good reasons and bad reasons. Sometimes it's, you know, silos because there's jealousy or, you know, or it's legitimate. This business process is completely different than this business process. There's no link between them. Why would I know about those things? I mean, like I said, once you, you know, you're involved on that level, you understand, oh, it's very easy for some piece of information to just completely get buried or lost.

Exactly. I think that's what's happening. Yep, yep, pretty sure that whoever was working next to Luis Alizondo was it like, hey, what's going on with that Tick-Tac thing over there? Yeah, absolutely. Oh, boy. Well, I have to ask you, as a, as a, as a, a, field investigator who's looked into so many UFO cases at this point, what advice would you give someone just coming into all this? Where should they turn to to look for credible information about UFOs and how can they get involved with actual investigations? Yeah, that's a great question. I think, you know, I was fortunate enough to, you know,

hit the right note at the right time when I got into it with Mufon. In fact, I'm writing a book now and I hope to publish soon that is about my experience, you know, like a beginner's guide to researching uphology because, as I mentioned earlier, you know, there is wheat and there is chaff. And there's also this whole political veil over all of it that can kind of block you from, you know, determining what's really good information and bad information. So, you know, my recommendation certainly is, you know, read all that you can and get a variety. And, you know, in your mind, you just need to be on guard knowing that, you know, some of this information is going to range from complete and utter nonsense all the way to, you know,

maybe some very highly technical and complex information and everything in between. And you're going to have to kind of calibrate your BS meter, so to speak, and try and sort that out. But the good thing is about, you know, the UFO field is, you know, we police ourselves pretty well when it comes to the nonsense. Now, I mean, there's a tumet out there, especially on social media and that kind of thing, but when you get down to some serious research, people do do their due diligence. And, you know, I would avoid a lot of the, you know, sensationalistic stuff, you know, some of the YouTube stuff. And not that everything on YouTube is bad, but, you know, we know there are certain sites that, you know, promote this sensationalistic stuff.

And, you know, it's just, it's so unfortunate, but, you know, there must be an appetite for it. So, but if you want to be a credible and serious researcher, you know, read credible and serious books by serious and credible people. Same with the documentaries. And just be aware that there is an incentive out there for people to produce false information. And it's really to, you know, sell videos or click bait and all those other things. You just kind of got to educate yourself in that way and be aware. But once you get to that point where you feel like you have a good handle on the knowledge through your personal research, make sure you hook up with other people. That was probably the biggest thing that helped me grow quickly is, you know, I was able to connect with people like you and Jason and Marine and, you know, Alejandro.

And then, you know, I came into contact with Richard Dolan and, you know, Nick Pope and all these. people who were one, you know, at one point, they were just my heroes and people on TV. The next thing, I'm having dinner with them. I mean, I couldn't believe it. But this is, this is when you insert yourself in a positive way, you engage with others. You know, that's all we want. You know, like I said, this euphology is about people, really. And, you know, when you engage like that, this is really the quickest way to grow. So that's what I recommend. Connect with people on Facebook. You know, read some good books and and watch good documentaries and go to these UFO conferences and, you know, insert yourself and engage and play. And, you know, you're going to grow and you're going to thrive.

So, and then, you know, I'll put a plug in for Mufon. I know there's plenty of criticism out there about Mufon and some of it's legitimate and some of it's not. But I can say my experience in, you know, two and a half years of being an investigator has been. absolutely nothing but fantastic and positive. Get great leadership and training and backup and support and great camaraderie through it. And, you know, it's the best thing I ever did. You know, I highly recommend it.

That's awesome, man. It's so good and refreshing to hear and see through the lens of such an optimistic and positive person when it comes to the UFO field. there's so much backbiting, you know, with any organization or field, as it were. Yeah. And negativity that to have someone like you out there pushing the positives and taking that personal journey and still being excited about it after all this time of all of us, never getting the answer we seek, it's so good to hear that. So where can we find out more about what you're up to and what to expect about this upcoming book of yours? I'm really excited about that. Yeah, well, certainly you can catch me on Facebook, Shane Hurd, and Twitter. You can go to Rogue Planet and keep up with me there.

And, you know, go to mufond.com. And feel free to email me, my email address, and I'm going to give that out to you as Herd Ranch at AOL.com. I'll be happy to engage with you and share anything I can that help you in your own growth. This has been a really fascinating conversation with your. tonight and it really, it was upbeat and that's exactly what I needed heading into this new year. So I have to thank you for doing that and I have to thank you for coming on somewhere in the skies. Oh, well, thanks so much for inviting me.

I really enjoyed it. And yeah, I just would really like to encourage people if they're interested, you know, go at it in a positive way. There's a lot to be done out there and you will be welcomed. That's it for this week's episode. Again, my thanks to Shane for joining us. Please take a few moments to subscribe, rate, and review somewhere in the skies on the largest podcast platform, Apple Podcasts. You'll be helping the show gain visibility and new listeners. Please also subscribe to our growing YouTube channel for exclusive content.

Just search for the Ryan Sprague channel. Project Blue Book premieres next week, so be sure to head on over to the official Somewhere in the Sky's store to get your Heinek merchandise. Visit tepublic.com and search. for the Somewhere in the Skies store. That's teepublic.com. We're on Twitter at SomewhereSkies and Instagram at SomewhereSkies pod. Thank you to our sponsor, HelloFresh.

Thanks also to the E1 podcast network, KGRA Radio, Rogue Planet TV, and most importantly, to you for listening. I'll see you here next week, and remember, keep your feet on the ground, but never stop searching, Somewhere in the Skies. Somewhere in the Skies is produced by Third Kind

in association with the Entertainment One Podcast Network. To learn more, visit Entertainment One Podcast.com.