Somewhere in the Skies - CONSPIRING THEORIES with Chris Holm

Episode Date: March 23, 2020

On episode 153 of SOMEWHERE IN THE SKIES, we are joined by UFO and cryptid researcher, Chris Holm. Chris hosts the Conspire a Theory podcast which covers such topics as the paranormal, skeptical insights, fandom, and hot topic comedy.  Chris discusses what got him interested in UFOs and the paranormal, some of his personal experiences, and then he and Ryan dig deep in to Chris's approaches to interviewing witnesses and the value of stories. Featured Image by Chris Holm Subscribe to the Conspire a Theory podcast by CLICKING HERE Ryan will be tentatively speaking at Contact in the Desert this Spring. (Pending COVID-19 guidelines) For tickets, CLICK HERE Patreon: www.patreon.com/somewhereskies YouTube Channel: CLICK HERE Official Store: CLICK HERE Order Ryan's Book by CLICKING HERE Twitter: @SomewhereSkies Instagram: @SomewhereSkiesPod Watch Mysteries Decoded for free at www.CWseed.com Opening Theme Song, "Ephemeral Reign" by Per Kiilstofte SOMEWHERE IN THE SKIES is part of the eOne podcast network. To learn more, CLICK HERE Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/somewhere-in-the-skies. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Hey, everybody. Before we get to this week's episode, I have to take a moment to send all my thoughts and well-wishes to all of you during this extremely challenging time. COVID-19 has taken us all by complete and utter surprise, and none of us are quite sure how to react, what to do, or where this is all heading. But rest assured, I will keep making podcasts if you'll keep listening. It's the least I can do to try to keep your minds and, frankly, my mind. own off of COVID-19 for even just an hour. So thank you for still being here. Thank you for still supporting somewhere in the skies. Please stay healthy. Stay safe and we will get through this. We always do. And now let's get back to UFOs. This is Somewhere in the Skies with Ryan's bread.

Chris, we have been on the podcast periphery with one another for a while now and in a field where the landscape is constantly changing. It's good to just sit down and have a conversation amongst mutual colleagues. So thank you so much for joining me today on Somewhere in the Skies. Yeah, it's good to finally be here. I've been nibbling at your ankles for so goddamn long. I know, man. And finally, it is happening. Hey, I take full responsibility for that. Trust me. I was telling you off. I just hired an assistant. So finally, I'm going to be able to schedule not just my podcast, but my life in general. So no, this has been a long time coming. but I know it's going to be awesome because, yeah, like I said, I've been following your work for a while,

I listen to your podcast, and I wanted to get a feel for your thoughts on a lot of this stuff that you and I have in common when it comes to the UFO topic. And I want to talk about your show, too, but before we do that, I got to ask kind of your origin story, if we're going to go the comic book route, what got you first interested in the UFO topic? Have you ever had any experiences that you'd be willing to share with us? What is your origin story? Well, I've always had like an interest in paranormal stuff. I've always been a big proprietor of just, you know, science fiction.

I love comic books. I grew up with superheroes. So the idea that there are extraordinary people and extraordinary experiences out there, you know, greatly excited me. What really interests me most about the paranormal and stuff like that are, you know, not just the phenomenon, but the characters. namely like the you know like the grays and stuff like the individual critters and characters that populate the phenomenon in the field you know not just the individual races but also you know the people involved and stuff like that and I just see them all as you know populating like different types of superheroes and a big old comic book of life I love that man that's such a good

way to put it we are kind of characters in this this big cosmic movie or comic book, as it were. So that's really cool to hear. Well, how about, do you have any personal experiences specifically related to UFOs you'd be willing to share with us? But if not, I completely understand. But yeah, what kind of drew your passion? Unfortunately not. I've had paranormal experiences, but within the realms of UFOs or alien abduction phenomena, nothing specific. I've had like sleep paralysis. episodes that I've recognized as sleep paralysis, those are,

even those were like comically disappointing because everyone has, you know, they have graze or they have shadow people or monsters and stuff like that. Instead, mine were during daylight where I, I would have a sleep paralysis episode. And instead, what would come into my room wasn't,

you know, a monster or, or, alien or, or any kind of crypted creature that I should be familiar with. Instead, it was, well, how do I best describe this? I out offending people. You know what people of Walmart is, right? Oh, yeah. I'm very well. Okay. The detentons of the people of Walmart would come into my room, shuffle through my

things. You know, they would open doors and even open doors in walls that there were no doors, sort of this was weird thing. And every now and then they would look at me, you know, to make sure that I'm not getting up and moving and stuff like that. And, of course, I'm paralyzed that my body can't move. And then there's this overwhelming sense of fear, even though I know I'm not supposed to be afraid of anything. I know it's that this is an episode. But you still get the washover of that emotion. And then they would, you know, eventually make themselves, you know, out of the door.

And that happened to me twice. And then I would, when I would regain control of my body, I would get up and I'd look around and nothing was shuffled with. Nothing was, you know, disturbed. All of my alarms and locks were fastened all from within the inside. There was no way anyone could have gotten in and gotten out. So even with that, you know, the experience is still unsettling. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I can only imagine. I think I personally have had one experience in my life in terms of sleep paralysis and then never again, which I always thought this is like a chronic thing. like people would get it constantly. But, and then I read that, no, it can only happen one time for some people. So that's, that's interesting. Is that something that you, you deal with on a consistent rate? Or was this just like at one certain point in your life?

I think it was just maybe just the one or two times. There is sometimes where I can feel it coming on, but I know how to get myself out of it, like right away. And usually it's when I just have trouble sleeping or something like that. It's not a constant. It's nothing that, you know, plagues my life, as it would with some people. But that's probably the closest thing I've had to a personal paranormal experience. I mean, I've had other paranormal experiences that were like more like unrelated to like UFOs and stuff. There was one instance where I would hear as I was growing up, I would hear my mother's voice calling for me.

And the thing is sometimes even when my mother wasn't in the high. house. Like I remember one time, my mother was out in the yard, you know, doing yard work and, and tending to her garden and stuff like that. And I heard her call for me, you know, and it was a call like a call for help, but not distress. More like a call for help, like she needs help, like getting a can of beans off the top shelf or opening a pickle jar, something like that, you know, so I would come out and I'd look for her and I was like, oh, great, she's not here. Then I'd open of the sliding glass door, which makes a loud, obnoxious noise. And I'd peeked my head out and asked if she called.

And of course, she didn't. And anytime I would experience something like that or anything remotely strange, she would always say, oh, that's your guardian angel as a way of, I guess, helping me to not freak me out or whatever. Yeah, like a coping mechanism. Yeah, but what was weird is that, you know, I mean, I heard her voice. I distinctly heard her voice. And she was like outside, you know, with the door. closed, if she was going to open the door, I would have heard the door open because it makes a loud

scratching noise because that's just how the sliding glass doors work. But that, you know, that, of course, turned out to be, you know, something that was just, to this day, still puzzles me as to how that could have happened. Yeah, welcome to my life and so many others who've had weird paranormal experiences. I totally get it, man. Well, I, uh, I was listening to one of your, your episodes, um, around the time when AlienCon was happening in Dallas, and I saw that you had actually gone there. And I wasn't able to make it. That's the only Alien Khan I've missed so far. But what was that experience like?

You're kind of my only conduit into that event. I don't really know anyone else that attended. So what was that like? And maybe could you give us some of your most memorable experiences while you were there? For me, it was personally, like, overwhelming. I mean, I've been to paranormal events before. I've been to, you know, little UFO meetups and stuff like that and little paranormal conventions that we have.

San Antonio is probably like a horror is our thing. We do horror better than anyone else. We have so many horror and horror conventions just out the wazoo. You can fight a paranormal or horror convention, you know, within a rock's throw. They're just up here all the time. But when I went to Dallas for down there at the Civic Center, I was overwhelmed.

There were so many people there. I mean, I think it was, and myself, I was with my companion, Leslie, she's a friend of mine. She's like my little sister. She comes with me and she, me and her are like, you know, going around this place. She's into big into aliens and she knows who all these people are. And I'm like, the one guy I wanted to see is not here.

So I'm just kind of milling around. I make do. And I'm just, I'm just, I'm just looking around. And there's just so many people into so many things. And, you know, it almost has that vibe of like a Comic-Con, but not really. I mean, not many people. Like maybe I think out of all of them, like maybe a dozen people were dressed up. But most of the people, they just had the T-shirts and the little deals on their, on their heads.

And it was like so many people, just regular people that were interested in this. And it was a bit overwhelming. Because me and Leslie, because we have a background in conventions and we were like staff at various conventions. We kind of know who to talk to and who to ask to get sort of the real story of what's going on. So we would talk to some of the staff and stuff like that. And she would ask around. And what she got back for me is that, They were a bit overwhelmed by the numbers.

They had like, I think they had a larger turnout than, I think, what was the other one, L.A. L.A. There was Baltimore. Wow, they out did L.A. That's crazy. I don't know if they did L.A., but I'm pretty sure they out did Baltimore. Okay. I think it was probably like the largest one that they had seen so far, but it got to the point that they were filling out the panel rooms. And these panel rooms were like set up for like a thousand plus people. and they had lines out the door.

And one of the major complaints was that, you know, there weren't enough panels or not enough room in the panels. But the thing is, you know, it's like there were like so many thousands of people there. I don't know what the exact numbers were. I don't think we ever got a final count. But it was whatever it was that they were prepared for, they probably got like two or three times as many attendees in the, that that they were prepared to handle.

So they had to do like a lot of creative stuff just to get people in, just to get people into these panels. And, you know, I mean, the panels were great. You know, like I said, Leslie, she got a picture with like, what did the hair guy, Sukolo. Oh, Sukalo. Yeah. Yeah. She got a picture with him doing doing the meme stuff.

And she had a blast. She had a blast. So I had like lots of fun just sitting and talking to people that I, know, normally don't get to run into a lot of, you know, I would just sit down and, you know, and just have conversations with just regular people. And sometimes some of the guests and the attendees would come down. And I'd recognize a few of them that I had met prior. And we would just sit and catch up and have conversations. And it was definitely an overwhelming is the only way that I could describe it. Yeah, that's a good way to put it. When I went to my first one in, I think

it was Pasadena, California. I had no idea what to expect either. I thought it'd be like one of these little UFO, you know, conferences, and I show up, and there's just, like, thousands of people there. And you're just like, how are these many people talking about UFOs and ancient aliens and the paranormal? And I didn't know about it. So that goes to show how much, I think, ancient aliens has sort of bled into the mainstream and become such a big thing. So kind of moving from Alien Khan, who, you know, ancient aliens TV show produces the alien cons, I believe. What are your thoughts on the ancient alien theory, Chris? Does it hold up, does it help or does it hinder the UFO conversation, in your opinion?

What do you think? Well, what I think hinders the conversation is I know you, and I think in one of your prior interviews, you and John Tenney, and I'm not trying to crap on you guys or get on your case. But I think there's this meme going around that says, you know, because white people didn't build it, therefore aliens. And I understand that people try to push this sort of racial overtone of, you know, of this sort of like, you know, because the English speaking, you know, cis white gendered white people don't know this, that therefore that it somehow demeans brown people, you know, and culture and, you know, indigenous folks. And the thing is, you know, I'm like part indigenous myself. I, you know, I'm like, I'm like interracial. So I'm like part Mexican, part white.

So, you know, I mean, not to draw straws or get into a pissing contest, but I can pretty much say to anybody, hey, I out marginalize you by just being biracial. But the thing is, is that what I feel is that the thing is they say that about everything. They say that about Stonehenge. I'm pretty sure that there's even an episode out there saying that, gee, I wonder if Mordred was a hybrid, you know, type of stuff like that, you know, or was the, was the lady in the lake a gray or something like that, you know, and, and it's, it's like they see that about everything. That's their thing.

It's just, it's just, it's a gimmick. It works because the numbers showed us that it does. And, and I think it's just, you know, I think that's just being, you know, a bit culturally irresponsible to try to throw that, that, you know, that these people are racist. is because X. And I'm like, no, that's just not the case. I vehemently disagree with that. The thing is, though, is that what I feel hurts us is that, you know, I mean, or

let me talk about what helps us. What helps us is that it does introduce people to new cultures. It does introduce people around the world, whether it's through the lens of alien abduction or the alien theory. They're still being exposed to cultures. They're still being exposed to new and interesting. interesting things that they probably wouldn't, you know, be exposed to otherwise. And I see that as a win. Now, as far as, you know, the cultural stuff like that, I do have, take issue in on

bridge with that on the grounds of we're mostly exposed to English speaking narratives because that's our fault. Because we're, I mean, I mean, we all speak English and stuff like that. There's an entire world out there that produces its own content. I was in contact with a man. He was producing a paranormal series, a local paranormal series. And he was hiring for hosts for the series. He had gotten himself, he was making a dual language production where he was producing a Spanish language version. And he was producing an English language version.

I think he got the Spanish, he got the host and stuff for the Spanish language version down. But he was still looking for like a host for an English language version. version that I, the last time I spoke to him and I hadn't talked to him in like a few years, and I need to hit him up and see, you know, how that's going. But as far as, you know, the content out there, I mean, we sort of have this idea that, you know, that everything, that we're seeing everything through a sort of a white person lens. But it's just there is, there are brown people and black people out there producing their own content, you know, giving their perspectives and stuff like that.

we can't pretend that they're not out there just because we don't see them in the mainstream. And it is a bit, you know, eventually they'll make their way into mainstream and stuff like that. And we got to support them. But we also at the same time can't, you know, patronize them on the basis of just superficially because then that's artificial. And it's disingenuous, disingenuous to their efforts. But, you know, I mean, in one of my earlier interviews, I had interviewed another local podcaster. who had who you know he was talking to a lot of the you know he was a a brown person himself and and he was talking to other people that you know let's face it the the white people aren't going to talk to

and we have talked about that and and his um his his his podcast is uh it's called chicanics versus aliens and he you know he focuses on you know occult and paranormal and stuff like that and cryptozoology and all that stuff, all the kind of stuff from, from perspectives of a person of color. And there's also other shows like they're like like like a mysterious radio and and stuff that's hosted by Ktown and she's a woman of color who you know does and produces her own content and stuff like that. So the idea that it's just white people out there just doing this and saying this stuff is absolutely ridiculous. And and we you know, we got like a whole mix of people out there and just because there aren't that many, you know, I mean, we can't like, you can't force

it, whatever it is that you want, because then you're just, you know, you're, you're, you're sort of like putting pressure on people to produce or whatever it is. It's just, it comes off just patronizing and disingenuous. But in no way am I saying, you know, don't listen to them because X, you know, and I'm not, I'm not getting at that. I'm just saying, The stuff is out there. We're just not, if we're not, if you don't see it out there, then go look for it. Yeah. Yeah, that's a good point.

Do the work. Yeah, but don't complain that it isn't there because it's not. It is there. I just take issue with that because I grew up in a biracial background, you know. So I'm like white and Hispanic. And the thing is, you know, I mean, I was never really accepted by both cultures, you know, at least not in high school. But outside of that, you know, it's just something that I've had to deal with. sort of left this chip on my shoulder.

I can't be the judge of that. Everyone's got their own journey. And I totally respect that. And I'm glad to hear you say that because I think you're right. Instead of just focusing on the bad, like, let's be allies to people whose voices may not be out there as much. And let's do it. Let's just work together. I totally get it.

Speaking of that, Chris, podcasts. Conspire a theory, man. I mean, we got it. We got an elephant in the room. You host your own podcast. And I love your logo, by the way. So we'll get to how that came about. But when did you start the show?

What made you want to do your own thing, make a podcast? And yeah, what is Conspire a Theory all about? When I first started doing my own podcast, I got my start. I had a friend who he works in New York now. He's one of the, he works from one of the several of the newsrooms down there. he had a gaming podcast called Original Gamer and I would come on as Collar Commentary. Basically, he would bring me on just to, you know,

trash talk, you know, whatever gaming subject that we would talk about, you know, because one of my backgrounds that I am a huge fan of video games and I love video games and stuff like that, but we would talk about that. And then I had another friend who we would do con reviews for his YouTube podcast. And I was the hatchet man for that. So he would bring me in. We'd talk about conventions and stuff like that. And then I would come in, you know, and talk about, you know, all the negatives and stuff like that.

You know, just break it down. He would set them up. I would break him down. Because they were doing their own shows and I was doing on the podcast stuff, it's like, well, there's all these topics that I want to talk about. But the wall that I would run into is, well, this isn't that kind of a show. So eventually I ran into a point where it's like, if I want to talk all these subjects and, and cover these topics, I have to produce my own show. And I really had no idea how to do it.

So, you know, luckily my friends were very supportive. I mean, even my friend Oscar Gonzalez, he was running an original gamer. He sold me his old podcasting equipment. And I used like most of it to this day because it's just good equipment. And then my other friend from the YouTube stuff, Ed Salilis, he, you know, taught me some of the basics as far as, you know, sound engineering and all that stuff like that. So that way my podcast doesn't sound like crap. You know, just some of the basics on how to deal with stuff, you know, because there are some stuff that I just can't help.

But, you know, a lot of it you can help. So, you know, learning to do with that. And then I finally got myself out. And then I was like, okay, now I got to get a name. The first name I went for was conspiracy theory. But then I looked it up and I saw that all the Google leads led it to, to a homoerotic fan fiction for Saturday morning cartoons. All right.

I don't understand how that works, but that's where all the search engines pointed it to when I would type in conspiracy theory. It would go to homoerotic fanfic. Interesting. So I thought, I don't want to, if I do, if I name my podcast that, then people are going to expect that because I'm going to mislead my audience. So I kind of like, you know, because it's not a fan. it's not that. The thing is that, so I decided with Conspire a Theory, you know, I figured, okay, I'll do that. And then I just talk about whatever it is I want to talk about.

I have, you know, basically the three topics I go to are paranormal, or I'll do fandom stuff where I could talk about, you know, video games, comic books, fun stuff. And then I'll have like another hot topic, which is, you know, basically just vulgar, or Legion of Skanks type of stuff where it's just me trying to do vulgar comedy. I don't do those as much as I do anymore, but every now and then I have to do that because it's like it's just, it's like, it's sort of like a cleansing thing for me is to do vulgar comedy. Hey, we all have our cleansing things, Chris. Yeah. And I just do that and, you know, where I'll discuss like whatever, whatever is in the headlines that's crazy right now.

And I'll just do a show on that. I've gotten a lot of help and support in the first year. you know, a lot of it was me just hitting up my friends with just people that I knew, you know, people that I could talk to that were willing to get on to discuss that. And I designed the logo and did it myself because I do, you know, graphic art and stuff like that. So I chose a fox, a little white Arctic fox

because, you know, that's sort of like a play into the trickster element because in Japanese legend, they have the Kitsuni, which is a sort of fox spirit that embellishes the tricksterdom of whatever it is that's paranormal phenomenon. And that was sort of the embodiment of that. So that was sort of my mascot and my logo. And from then on, you know, I've done like, I basically seek out people that, you know,

this all pretty much started with, I would have these, I would go to these conventions. I would run into a man called Ken Gerhard. He, me and him would have some of the most lengthy conversations. We would go for like 45 minutes just talking about research and cryptids and lore and stuff like that. They were so fascinating. I'm like, I got to get this on tape. I got to share these conversations with people because I feel like they're so insightful and good.

And he's saying all this cool, interesting stuff. And so many times I would listen to podcasts and I'd hear people talk. And, you know, every now on that, it's like, you know, I want to get my foot in the door. I want to, there's like a question that maybe I want to ask that wasn't. brought up or I would hear something and then I'd hear like a parallel of something else that sometimes I kind of like want my turn with these people with these fascinating people out there. So it's really just a just a chance for me to have a chance to talk with interesting and cool people. Speaking of that, are there any guests that really stuck out here or conversations

that like completely blew your mind? I mean, they don't have to be UFO related. We are the UFO podcast, but I know you cover a lot of different topics. Yeah, what are some of your most, like, memorable guests you've had on? Well, one that I felt that was a personal cornerstone for me was, was actually, I listened to your show a lot. I've been listening to you since the, since you were on your, on into the fray. Oh, wow. That's awesome. I think the, the first episode that I heard that you were on was the Kid and Black episode, because I was like on a big Kid and Black fix. And I, I needed to state my appetites. And on that episode, it's infamous because you, Shannon, and Sam only talk about black guy kids for like eight minutes. But the personalities of all the people, you know,

was enough to keep me coming back. So I definitely enjoy the show. I was listening to you since you started your auxiliary, which eventually evolved into what you're doing now. But one of the things that stuck out for me, especially with your book and other podcast hosts, they have this thing where it's like, oh, I've got the perfect, or not the perfect, but they all say, I have my own personal bullshit meter. I can tell when someone's, you know, when someone's telling the truth to me or not. And basically, it's just something about that rubbed me the wrong way about how people try to vet their content, how they try to vet their guests and stuff like that. And something just didn't sit right with me. So, and I'm like, are everybody just relying on?

you know, poker tales just to try to bet their, whether or not try to vet their the, uh, experiences or the, or the guess on whether or not they're telling the truth or not, you know, so I, when I had spoken to, I had met this man, uh, his name was Greg Lawson. Greg Lawson, he's a local, um, he's, he's based out of Austin. So I had met him at a convention and he wrote this book called, you know, uh, paranormal detective. And he, he, he, He has this long history with working with the LAPD and, I mean, not the L.A. Austin Police Department. And he works, he's done like a, one of the things that he had done was negotiation. So I figured, okay, this is the perfect guy to talk to about, you know, like, how do people's personal bullshit meters really measure up to actual police negotiation where it's like a death and life situation?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, I want to find out, I want to find I did that when I interviewed him. I had interviewed him specifically to talk about, to bring it up during the interview, about, you know, how can someone tell if someone's telling the truth? How accurate is that? And he pretty much laid it down for me about all of the stuff that people have to go through. You know, he even went over the poker tales. Like, you know, and what we pretty much came to is that, well, you know, even though, you know, someone could be telling the truth and they could be a terrible. storyteller, whereas someone could be totally lying and be a great storyteller.

You know, and it's just, it's one of those things where, you know, I mean, I understood it a little bit more. I didn't, I don't know that I got my definitive answer, but that was just something that I just, I had to figure it out. And since then, that's been, you know, definitely one of my favorite interviews. And whenever I hear people talk to him and stuff like that, yeah, it's great and wonderful. But that time that I had with him, it was really, it meant something to me to really hash that out in vetting the stuff. And, you know, I apply it to myself and everyone else. So from then on, I approach the situation of, you know, like whether or not someone is telling the truth or not, I don't know. There is no definitive way for me to tell or not, especially with the abduction

experiences. But so long as the person can tell a good story and, you know, if they try to present evidence, I'm going to take a look at it seriously. I think in one of the, I did a three-part series with an interview with a man named Jack Carroll. He had like a fascinating story to tell. I would meet him at the Mufon meetings and he would, you know, always tell his story and he was a great storyteller. And he had all these remarkable experiences. And then I met with him and me and him have become, you know, good friends. He's led an incredible life and he's an interesting person. And I would just listen to these stories. And then at the end, I would actually take a look at his evidence and what he had to produce.

And a lot of the evidence, it's not concrete, it's not absolute, but for a lot of the people out there, it gives them a sense of peace of mind. And I figured, okay, if that's good enough for them, then that's all that we have to do is so long as they can get like a peace of mind with their account, with their encounter, then that's all that we could hope for. As far as the, like, say with the big foot and stuff like that, yeah, we all want the corpse, you know, and with the aliens, yes, I want to see a gray, glass and stuff like that. I want to see all that stuff. Absolutely. But as far as the encounters,

you know, if we don't have that, then, you know, that's like, well, at least so long as we can expand on the floor and at least talk about it, you know, get something out of it. Because I still feel there's something valuable in hearing some of these people out. I mean, you have your sort of Romanekian people who may have had an encounter, but then they decide to embellish it. That's going to happen because that's just the nature of the culture. That's just a human nature is going to always step in because, you know, of course it is. And it does muddy the waters, but I still feel that there's something valuable to the experience. I really enjoy just hearing these accounts and talking to these people and listening to these stories because, you know, I feel like I'm on the cusp of,

you know, of solving a mystery. And we all love a good mystery. And it's like I just need to I need to take in more so that way I can figure stuff out, you know, because I'm actually paying attention to them as they tell the stories, you know, I mean, even during my Jack Carroll interview, I would interrupt him and I would ask him like questions, you know, like during the, like one time he said he had like a week-long encounter and then I stopped him and I asked him like, well, when did you shave? When did you go to the bathroom? Did you sleep?

Stuff like that. Yeah. Stuff like that that I don't think that I don't know that other people might not have picked up on, you know, stuff like that, because, you know, I want to know, I'm not trying to catch them and say, you know, oh, you're wrong or whatever. I'm trying to figure it out from their perspective and using what I know to see if, can this work, can this experience work in the reality that they're presenting? You know, I mean, if there's like a, if there's like a whole, you know, I mean, well, let's talk about, let's shine some light on it. Let's explore that a bit.

Are we missing details and stuff like that? Because one of the things I do like, yeah, I do like a good story. So, of course, you know, I mean, no one likes plot holes. So I try to make sure that those at least accounted for, you know, in the, in whatever it is reality that's being presented. But, you know, I mean, would it get us closer to whatever the truth is? I have no idea. But, you know, we should at least try. This episode is brought to you by Netflix.

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I'm glad to hear you say you don't know because there's so many people out there who claim they do know. And those are the kind of people that I, when people come to me and say, this person says, this is the answer and we should listen to them. I'm like, I wouldn't go that far. If anyone's saying they know definitively what's going on, who's in control of these UFOs or what intelligence lay behind abduction. or whatnot. That's problematic right there. I don't think anyone knows, to be completely honest. What do you think? I completely understand and respect the skeptic mindset as far as, you know, question everything. I totally respect that. And I, there are a lot of other skeptic groups that I'm a part of that I get along great with. There's this one skeptic group. It's cryptic connection. I'm one of their members. And they're very good. They're very skeptical, very science-based.

but every now and then they'll discuss and embellish the woo for a bit, you know, just for analysis purposes. And they're very good about that. And I feel comfortable and confident, you know, I can talk to a skeptic just as much as I can talk to a believer. I just have to remember to even then. But the thing is I don't change my language for them. I'm like, you know, because whenever I say something like, oh, this experience is and this and the phenomena of this. I try to make it clear that what I'm talking about, whether or not it's proven or not, you know, just to make it clear so that way they know what I mean, what I'm saying, what I'm talking about. And I realize that if we're just more open in our conversations and we're trying to be as clear as we can be when having a conversation, that there shouldn't be any need for animosity.

I understand that a lot of skeptics get a bad rap because there are a lot of who are more cynical debunkers. They're not there to listen to a story. They're there to listen to plot holes so that they can jump on them and then berate them and I guess score a victory. And I can understand for some, you know, that's sort of like keeping things black and white keeps them in control. because then they remain the ultimate authority on the issue. When it's like, well, yeah, that may be the case, but on the other hand, you know, we still need to get, even just for record keeping purposes, just for lower purposes, we still need to hear out the entire experiences and, you know, put it under light and examine it, you know, thoroughly. Well, in terms of hearing people out, you're an artist as well as a researcher and you did some really, really cool, recreations from witness testimony. And one that always stood out to me is the featured image for this

episode. And that's the green alien perched in the corner of the room. Could you maybe run us through this case? I have to hear about what compelled you to do this drawing. Yeah. One of the researchers from UFO-crypted essay investigations based out of San Antonio, he was doing a, a, he, I I think he was speaking to one of his family members. It was either his aunt or his mother. And she had had this encounter where she was walking through the hallway. She had turned a corner and she had seen a little gray. It looked like a gray, but he was green.

And he was propped up in the corner like Spider-Man. That's how she described it. He was up in the corner like Spider-Man. And he was surrounded by sparkles. Like if you've ever sneezed too fast or gotten up too fast or getting hit in the head and you see stars. Oh, yeah. Yeah, those. He was surrounded by sparkles.

And she had, you know, of course, she jumped from shock. And when she had jumped from shock, it had disappeared. So whether it was a projection or she got time jumped or whatever, we don't know. No, but that's just the best that she was able to describe it. And it's sort of this thing that I see over and over again. So the investigator, he had done a sketch. I put like on my Instagram feed, I have a couple, you know, side-by-side comparisons where, you know, if an investigator gives me a sketch, sometimes I'll try to apply my skill to it to clean it up a bit.

So I had taken his sketch and I had cleaned it up and I had tried to, you know, applied my my technical abilities to better flesh it out to make it more clear and and he and in some cases when doing recreations you know you got to fill in the blank somehow because that's just the that's you know just the way to do it so i had done my best to recreate you know what she would have seen and as far as you know as far as i could tell from from that experience so that's what that was It was sort of like a sudden offhand encounter. Like this thing was doing its thing. It was observing whatever.

And it accidentally got caught. Like he probably had his shields down or whatever. He didn't have his glimmer on or whatever it was. He didn't have his glimmer man, you know, camouflage. Visibly, yeah. He didn't have his cloak up. So whatever he made a mistake. And it's just a weird thing.

where we get these offhand encounters. I think my mother had a similar experience she told me before she had passed was when I was like four years old and my brother was eight. We were sleeping, you know, in our bedroom as a child. And my mother had gotten up to walk down the hallway to get a glass of water. And she had seen a being outside of our room. She couldn't tell if it was a man or a woman, but it was like a silhouette. of a sort of a being of light.

And it went down to, I guess, down to the knees. And then the knees below that were transparent, like it was fading away. And she had seen it for a second. And then she jumped. And, you know, just from the shock of seeing someone in front of her. And then it had blinked out of existence. It just disappeared. So when I heard her story, that sort of struck a chord with me that I, that type of blinking

out, it's like I've heard of that before. So that's why that took special issue with me that it's like I have to do something with that. Interesting. Well, in terms of cases, Chris, I mean, do you have, I like to ask the people who do get involved in this topic and research it heavily, a favorite UFO case or I guess even an abduction account or one of each, to be completely honest. Anyone that really stick out to you as like, this is the one I want to lay out on the table when those skeptics do come to you and say like, this is BS or this is, you know, misidentification. What are those go-to cases for you? I really can't nail it down to one case, but what I do love are when we get accounts of creatures or characters that are so off,

off-putting or off-the-norm. Yeah, yeah. You know, irregular. You know, something where it's like the, I think it's called the Edinburgh horror, where it's this three-legged slob bog monster thing. Or the Cisco night crawlers or like, see, was it the one guy who was chased up a tree by robots? Oh, the Cisco Grove incident. Yeah, I just did that one over on my Patreon.

Yeah, and also the Pascagoula where Calvin Parker and his companion had encountered robots. And it's just anything off the wall or just beyond the grays, that stuff I love. I absolutely love that stuff. It's just remarkable. And I'm always looking for more of that. You know, whenever I hear people talk about reptilians or stuff like that, you know, my ears just perk up, you know, like dog man or stuff like that. I mean, because I know that Bigfoot and the grays are sort of the big men on campus. They're like the popular jocks, but I love hearing and learning about the rest of the people out there that populate the paranormal field. You know, be they just lore accounts or whatever evidence is bought up, whether it's just an encounter, a brief encounter or a long-winded story.

You know, I just want to hear so much about it. Anything with robots, I just love robots so much. That's cool. Well, hey, man, there is no shortage of that in the UFO encounter arena, I would say. That's pretty cool. I like hearing that. We don't hear that that often. Well, you did mention like Dogman and cryptids and everything.

So I want to get your opinion on this. A lot of people lately have sort of been thrown around these theories that all this stuff, all these weird stories we're hearing. whether it's UFOs, ghosts, cryptids, high strangeness, that they're somehow all connected. And I don't know what to make of that. I've spent my whole time in this sort of weird world exploring UFOs. And now to think that maybe all this other stuff could have some sort of connection to it, like, where do you even begin? So do you think these theories that all of this stuff is interconnected, does it hold any water for you personally? I do feel like there's something there.

When I had interviewed the state director of Mufon, Ken Jordan, we had brought this up during our interview. It's not out yet. I'm still editing and working at the time of when we recorded this. But as far as the, I can understand, you know, people having a hard time trying to piece it together because every single field wants to compartmentalize everything. Like, you know, you hear about the stories about how the Bigfoot's, someone sees a Bigfoot come out of a UFO. Well, the UFO researchers want to hear about the UFO

and the Bigfoot researchers want to hear about the Bigfoot. But when you start cross-pollinating, then they are like, whoa, whoa, whoa, that's not my field or something like that. And I guess what's happening is a lot of them are starting to pull away from that. and I do think it's very good and it's very positive. Now, you have someone that are really stuck in the mud as far as, you know, like, no, we've got to keep everything separate. And I'm okay with categorizing stuff. But when there's cross-pollination, you know, that needs to be brought up because we do have our one-off single phenomenon accounts.

But as far as the really weird stuff, the sort of high-strangeness stuff, it is something that I want to hear more of. I feel like we need to do more gathering because so many times, and this irks me, this is another reason why I started my own show because I'm tired of hearing stuff. You know, what I feel are precious details being, you know, yada yada. I hate that. Like, say, for example, this is especially prolific in an abduction experience. Like people will say, oh, I was abducted by aliens, the grays, they came for me, they took me, they talked to me, blah, blah, blah. but yada yada paranormal activity at my house and it's like but you know and I'm like whoa whoa whoa wait wait wait what happened what paranormal activity can you expand on that you know I want to hear like what specifically happened

you know I want to hear that dug into but so far most of the hosts they they yada yada that they allow the guests to just dance over it and that that it irks me you know I get that man I know I remember remember one of the biggest cases in my book was about a woman in Michigan who had a triangular UFO sighting. And then after that, you know, it became a story of high strangeness in poltergeist activity. And that was something I struggled when I was, you know, finishing and editing the chapter. I'm like, do I include this or not? And at the end of the day, like, if I'm going to be a responsible researcher and, you know, author, I have to. It's part of the story. It's part of her experience. So I love hearing that you're willing to go there and not yada yada that like a lot of the big shows tend to do.

Because it's kind of a connection. I can understand for some of the more commercial shows for time restraints. I kind of get that. But, you know, if you're not on a time restriction, you know, then and you can take a few moments where that's another reason why I think podcasting is sort of getting more. because we can dig a bit deeper. A lot of us are not restricted to time constraints. I think that's one of the best things that the YouTubeosphere or whatever has done for content creators is that it allows us to take time creating and hashing out quality content.

It's like there's no longer a behind-the-scenes footage type of stuff like that. There's no stuff on the cutting room floor anymore or as much. And we get to really, you know, dig deeper into these. I mean, there are some podcasts. They go like four hours just talking about one thing. And although, I mean, I could never do that. But I understand that for a lot of us, you know, some of us, we need that short bursts of, you know, let's talk about this for 45 minutes. And then we'll have part two.

But those 45 minutes are deep dives. Yeah. And that's where I really feel that podcasting, you know, really shines. as a as a as a as a as new media that we're able to really take those deep dyes and really uh expand on those details and stuff that otherwise we would not have gotten on the the you know the 10 o'clock to midnight shows that because they got to rush through stuff you know yeah no that's a really good point yeah we're able to expand more and dig deeper and it really you know it depends on the the host if they're willing to go there so that's what i really enjoy by your show is you're

willing to go there. And I guess for my next question to do with all this, Chris, the capital D word, we got to, we got to talk about this disclosure. What are your personal thoughts on disclosure? Is this ever going to happen? What form is it going to take? Or is it even a thing? UFO disclosure? What are your thoughts on this? I just had a really long conversation with a guy with a man from Mufon about this specific subject in a Filipino restaurant for like an hour. Nice.

And that was very, that was very, very, very deep diving. Good. So I guess just, I guess just a, just a personal, I don't feel I'll ever be personally satisfied.

What I want, of course, I think what most of us want is we want, you know, the president to come down, the man of orange, and right next to him, a little man of green to come out and say,

hey, buddies, you know, here's what's up, here's the thing, here's what's going on, and that's not going to happen. I, and because of that, I'm, you know,

on one hands, yeah, I'm kind of disappointed because, you know, we're always on the cusp of, for some reason, it seems like a big deal

for us, the U.S. government to come forward, even though world governments, they have their own forms of disclosure and stuff like that. And they sort of, you know, they sort of say and do stuff that, you know, our government are going to be tightly lipped about. And, you know, it's like our, you know, who do you trust? I mean, a lot of people are very distrustful of the government and for good reason. I mean, you know, it's just, it's a very difficult subject. I think a lot of people are jaded. You know, I really, really want, you know, the UFO to show up. I want the big show,

the big performance. But I feel that deep in my heart, I'm not going to see that in my lifetime. Everyone is saying like, oh, this is the year, this is the year. And it's, it's, I feel like I've been hearing that for 60 years, even though I've only been hearing it technically, for 20 years. So it's, it feels like 60. I just, I feel, I feel, I feel so, so disappointed and disheartened when I, when I hear it brought up, and when I hear people like, talk about it with so much glee and hope and, and, and that glimmer in their eye, because I feel like they're going to be disappointed. But some people, you know, they'll often spin it towards, you know, like, well, you know, this is a soft disclosure and, and, and I'm like, okay, I, I see your point, I see your

perspective and I respected. But unfortunately for me, that's not enough. And those are just issues where I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on some of those points. Because at the point we're at an impasse where, you know, I mean, we can make a case and argue as best we can, but we're not the ones holding the keys on that, on the definitive answer, unfortunately. So it's just one of those things that I think we're just going to have to, you know, spin the wheels a bit more. And, you know, I mean, I hate to be a bummer, but I'm just not, I'm just not optimistic about it. Oh, man, that's called being a realist. And I agree with you wholeheartedly. I think, I think disclosure, if that is even a thing, is going to either come from, like you said,

those who hold the keys. And I think the phenomenon holds the keys. And I think it's going to come from small disclosures for each person who has some sort of experience. I mean, whether the ultimate answer is, you know, yes, aliens are coming. They're visiting us from elsewhere. That's a fascinating thing. Or this is all in our heads. We're crazy. It's a form of psychosis. If it's one of, it's got to be either one of those. You know, some people could say, well, it could be both. Yeah. Well, if it is, you know, the ultimate thing is, you know, it's got to be something along that line definitively. If it has to be one or the other, you know, that would still be a fascinating thing. That would still be a remark. thing. We would still be living in a remarkable world and we would still be full of remarkable experiences. And I would be satisfied with either. But, you know, but as far as, you know, if I were to need something black and white, that's sort of my parameter for that. But, you know, trying to settling for the shades of gray, you know, I can understand it. I can understand it. And I respect it. But it's, you know, it's, it can be a bit, it can be a bit frustrating at times.

Yep, it always is Well, I mean, sort of to wrap Things up here, Chris There seems to be In terms of the UFO field This influx of people Kind of getting involved Whether it's on Twitter

Or, you know, YouTube Or TV shows, movies, books, What have you? What would you say, personally, to the younger people Coming into the UFO research field? I mean, I'm one of the quote unquote Young people in the field

And I'm too young, my man. either. So what should we tell these people just getting into this? Who should they read, listen to stuff? What advice would you give people just starting to look at the UFO topic? I would say with new media, with podcasting and stuff, just stick with what you like, support what you like. It doesn't have to be my show or even your show. But, you know, there are a lot of people giving different perspectives on different accounts. We've hit the point now where you can find the show, the paranormal show, whatever, they click specifically for you. I can recommend a bunch of podcasts that people listen to that are from different people that have different perspectives, which is why I listen to them.

And whether it's a cultural perspective or a generational perspective, I do enjoy it all, you know, be at the paracast for a more season generation because I listen to that show. and I'm introduced to new people all the time off that show. Yeah, same. I mean, there's sometimes where I've sniped some of their guests, and they've actually sniped some of my guests, and I've admitted to it. And whether it be, you know, from a younger generation, be it either your show or a Rob Christofferson's show, or more seasoned like the, I guess, the mid-range people,

like be it myself or Chris Cogswell, you know, all these remarkable accounts of these remarkable people out. there doing these remarkable accounts, you know, be it where they from, whether they are from the perspective of the believer or from the perspective of a season skeptic, you know, be there Chris Cogswell or a Cisco Murdoch, you know, I do enjoy hearing from all these different perspectives on these accounts, you know. And I, you know, I do enjoy it. And the thing is, I'm constantly, constantly running into new stuff and lots of fascinating people. I mean, you're going to hit a point where you can't keep up with all of it.

But you know, I mean, but you're going to gravitate towards what resonates with you the most. Yeah. And I can just say, just keep looking and eventually you'll figure out that there's a bunch. There's something that's going to be geared specifically towards you. Such a good point, man. And it might take some time. You know, I remember there are shows I've listened to where it took me like months and months of listening to be like, oh, you know what?

I'm going to go a different way with my, you know, where I was. one ahead in terms of who I listen to, what authorities I sort of side with. But again, that's the thing about these phenomena. They change the minute we think we know something. So it's the same when it comes to being in the UFO field. It's malleable and it's constantly changing. Can I bring something up for just a minute? Please do. Something about what I remember one time where someone had criticized you for how you market yourself. And I just want to say one of the things that I hear in the field as a sort of like a purity test is, you know, it's like, oh, there's no money in paranormal. Or if this person makes money, they're a shill.

And I'm like, that right there for me is total hogwash. It's total bullshit. Because I come from an artist's background. And I understand, you know, to a degree marketing, I'm not good at it. I suck at marketing. I mean, I'm terrible at it, but someone's criticism, they laid out a whole bunch of stuff, you know, criticizing you specifically for your book, for your podcast, how your podcast reinforces your book and how you're like on all these shows and doing all this stuff.

And I'm like looking at it. It's like, all those criticisms are just good marketing. And it's like getting your name out there and making money even though you may not make, we may not make tons of money, but just because you're not making tons of money, doesn't mean there's not money to be made. And if you are making money, that just means you're good at marketing and what you do. And no one should be,

no one should be faulted for that. Because that is just, that is just total crap. Just because someone is good at something, they shouldn't ever be made to demean for it or made to feel guilty about it because other people are struggling. You know, it's like, I'm sorry.

That's just not how reality works. I know that a lot of people, to slam ancient aliens, but they're very successful in their show. They're introducing a lot of people to the phenomenon. And a lot of those people, they'll hear about that, and then they'll come to me, and they'll want to talk about it further. And it's like, yeah, let's talk about it. Let's introduce us, you know. It's just, I mean, because anybody that, especially in the art, because I've been working at conventions. I've had my table at conventions. I've had, I've been to the point where I've been, I've been drawing a Deadpool, you know, stuff like that, doing something stupid for a couple of bucks,

you know, to make people happy. And yeah, I do enjoy it and I love it. But to do what I want to do, I sort of, I have to, you know, do the work. And I do have to, you know, make things out there for just the general audience. And you got to, you got to keep the general audience in mind. And there are some stuff, some projects that I have that are made specifically for the general audience. When I do my show, I try hard to treat every episode like it's the, like it's the, like it's the listeners first. Like I try to treat everything as if it's an introduction to stuff. I mean, my show isn't for advanced people, but that doesn't mean advanced cult advanced phenomena. People can't enjoy it.

You know, it's more like for introductory and intermediates. but it's sort of you know and I try to give people a taste of what you know what more advanced phenomena can can talk about and stuff like that because I'm always trying to bring it up and rehash it and stuff like that but the whole idea that people that because someone's making money at something you know that just means they're good at it and I just get so tired of that hey from one artist or another I appreciate you saying that

because I have been called out on how much I post my own work and this and that but you know what I mean that's what That's what networking is. That's why it's called social networking. I'm trying to find other people and do things. I mean, that's why a podcast, the podcast world, I think, is so good because we build each other up, most of us at least, build each other up rather than tearing each other down. And there's very few communities like that out there that really do that. And it's a community that I just am so honored to be a part of because it is,

mostly people supporting one another. I don't care how many UFO podcasts are out there. The more the merrier, in my opinion. It just gets more acknowledgement of the phenomenon, and it helps all of us. Yeah. And I can understand some people trying to do it for free because of, I guess they're trying to preserve merit or integrity. I can totally understand that.

I wouldn't fault them for it. But at the same time, if you're good at something, there's nothing wrong with charging for it. You know, I mean, if so long as no one is being exploitative, then that's where I draw the line, is where someone is exploiting other people, because we see cases in the news where someone with psychic abilities is like exploiting someone naive into believing that, you know, they're going to be in grave danger unless they're bullied into, you know, giving them lots of money and stuff like that.

So that is where I draw the line. but I can understand why people try to put the numerical value on stuff as a means of trying to, you know, preserve that sort of, you know, humbleness to, yeah, because they don't want to be mixed in, you know, I get it. I get it. But at the same time, because someone is and they are charging and they are making money, you can't be mad at them either. I love that, man. Well, it's good to hear you say that. Well, in terms of, you know, charging for one's work, some of your artwork, I got to, I got to get my hands on some of this, man. So you've got to tell me in the art world, what are you up to now? What comes next for you in terms of your art life and also your podcast life? Well, the podcast, I've got a couple episodes that I'm editing that are going to be out pretty soon, mainly with talking with Mufon individuals, one about disclosure and one about a bit of the history of Mufon.

and then I'm going to be discussing I'm always open for talking to more people I'm trying to reach out to other shows and talk to them because I always love talking to other podcasters about podcasting and stuff like that so you might hear me on a couple of other people's shows coming up and also as far as art-wise I definitely recommend people

follow my Instagram which is Conspire a Theory and that is like you put the underscores between the words so it's It's conspire underscore A underscore theory. That's the best place that I would recommend people follow me because Instagram is just, it's sort of a bit like Facebook, a bit like Twitter, but you're not in everyone else's business all the time. Good point. A Lego set is a gift that always clicks.

And clicks. The end of the final lap. And we've got a champion. And clicks. For kids who love everything on wheels, choose a Lego set. A gift that always clicks. And it's the best place for me to showcase my artwork and stuff like that. Eventually everything I post on Instagram does get posted to Twitter.

And I'm trying to clean up my Twitter a bit more. You know, not be so, you know, into the political stuff because it's so easy for us to get into fights and stuff like that. Just on the general political stuff like that. And I'm trying to clean that up and post more of my artwork on there. So I'm always producing artwork. I've always got stuff, you know, in production and stuff is always being worked on. But if people need, you know, my skill or my help with anything, I am open for hire. I'm always, you know, I'm always open to a new project or anything else if anybody needs any assistance.

If any authors like yourself need a recreation for some of their published work or anything that's going into a book or anything, you know, I mean, I can give you a special rate and stuff like that. It's no big deal. I've had other people, you know, come to me for designs that they want for either be a T-shirt or they need something specifically for a book or something like that. I think only, I think one time my artwork was turned down because the guy said it was too polished. That's a good thing to hear, I guess.

Yeah, I guess it was for a Bigfoot book. And I guess, you know, some of the people, they prefer. certain styles for a certain work. So I'm learning to adapt to myself. So I'm always open for a challenge. If someone's got like a bit of a challenge for like a, I'm always down for that because I love trying to expand my skill set and trying new things. Spoken like a true artist. I love that, Chris. Hey, man, this has been so refreshing for me to get you, finally get you on the show. This definitely will not be the last time you're on somewhere in the skies. I could tell you that, now. But I highly suggest my listeners go subscribe to the Conspire Theory podcast right now. Go to the

back archives and listen to some of these guests because you've had some really amazing conversations and I'm just beginning to dig into those. I try to put stuff on there because there is some stuff that's, you know, raunchy humor that's not going to be for everybody. But I try to let people know up front within the first two minutes of the podcast. Yeah, this is going to be raunchy humor. If you're, you know, easily offended or can't take, you know, goofy jokes, then this isn't, this episode isn't for you. It's okay. You skip those. I have, you know, episodes where I talk specifically to other authors who publish books and we talk specifically about writing. And we talk about, you know, interesting writing stuff and tropes and characters and all that stuff. And I love talking to writers and authors and artists and stuff like that. And then there are other ones where I talk to, you know, paranormal experiences and paranormal authors. And we talk about, you know, stuff like what's going on in the field and all that interesting stuff like that. So I try to make sure that people know up front what they're getting in the episode.

So I don't want people to come up and say, oh, I was caught by surprise. It's like, no, you walked into that. But there is something for you out there. But just be aware, just be cautious of what you're listening to. Absolutely. Chris, thank you so much, man, for coming on someone in the skies today. Yeah, it was a pleasure. Real pleasure. That's it for this week's episode.

Again, be sure to subscribe to the Conspire a Theory podcast, wherever you get podcasts. And be sure to check out Chris Holmes' Patreon page to find all of his artwork. Visit patreon.com slash sci-chris. Again, that's patreon.com slash PSY Chris to learn more. You can find somewhere in the skies wherever you get your podcast. Make sure to subscribe, rate, and review on Apple Podcasts or your Android apps. It helps us gain visibility and find new listeners. I've started a new video series over on the YouTube channel called Somewhere in the Skies Case Files.

These will be many episodes where I break down my favorite UFO cases. Just head on over to YouTube and type in Ryan Sprague, or you can find the link in the show notes for this episode. Make sure to follow us on Twitter at SomewhereSkies and Instagram at SomewhereSkies pod. I'll see you here next week. And remember, keep your feet on the ground, but never stop searching somewhere in the skies. And wash your hands. Yeah, I'm talking to you. Somewhere in the Skies is produced by Third Kind Productions in association with the Entertainment

One podcast network. To learn more, visit Entertainment One Podcast.com.