Somewhere in the Skies - David O'Leary: PROJECT BLUE BOOK: SEASON 2

Episode Date: February 3, 2020

On episode 146 of SOMEWHERE IN THE SKIES, we continue our Project Blue Book conversations with the creator and writer of the titular television series on the History Channel, David O'Leary. He returns to give us the inside scoop on what to expect in season 2 of this hit show. How is J. Allen Hynek involved with the Roswell incident? What brings he and his partner to Area 51? And where is the Project Blue Book team heading throughout this explosive new season? This and much more as we dive in to the world of television and how it portrays our "UFO Dad". Featured image for this episode was originally designed by Karen Kelson. Follow her on Instagram @kkartts Watch Project Blue Book every Tuesday at 10pm ET/PT on the History Channel. To learn more, CLICK HERE Follow David O'Leary on Twitter @davideoleary For tickets to Contact in the Desert, use the promo code: CLICK HERE Patreon: www.patreon.com/somewhereskies YouTube Channel: CLICK HERE Official Store: CLICK HERE Order Ryan's Book by CLICKING HERE Twitter: @SomewhereSkies Instagram: @SomewhereSkiesPod Watch Mysteries Decoded for free at www.CWseed.com Opening Theme Song, "Ephemeral Reign" by Per Kiilstofte SOMEWHERE IN THE SKIES is part of the eOne podcast network. To learn more, CLICK HERE Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/somewhere-in-the-skies. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Ambition comes in all shapes and sizes. At First Citizens Bank, we roll with your goals because we're built for what you're building. Fit for your ambition for Citizens Bank. It's peak pollination season, and my business is scaling fast. To keep the nectar flowing, I need a phone plan with top priority data speeds. That's why I chose GoogleFi wireless. My connections stay strong even when the hive is buzzing.

Plus, unlimited plans started $35. month. Now that's a deal that doesn't stay. Explore GoogleFi Wireless plans today. Plus taxes and government fees. GoogleFi Wireless is not subject to data traffic deprioritization during times of high network usage. Today on the show, we continue our Heineck and Blue Book discussion with David O'Leary, the creator and writer of the television series, Project Blue Book. You ever hear of Project Blue Book? That's the Air Force program to investigate flying saucers. I don't trust the Air Force. Neither do we.

We don't work for them. We work for you, the people. That's why we're here. This is somewhere in the skies with Ryan Sprague. I am here with David O'Leary. Last time we spoke was right before the premiere of season one of Project Blue Book, and that was a hell of a first season, man. Oh, thanks, man.

Thank you. It's great to be here. It's good to have you back. I mean, I was so excited when I first got you and Sean on before season one even premiered and we're going full throttle into season two. We'll get to that. But I got to mention too, you were, you were awarded the number one drama series on cable television. That's crazy. How does that feel? Yes. Well, we were the number one new cable drama series. I, you know, I never want to, you know, toot our own horn about anything

that isn't true. But yes, no, it's a real, it's a, it's a, listen, it blew us away how the, how the show was received. You know, and, you know, we just got, you know, we were able to hold our audience for the, for the first episode for season two. We just saw some of those numbers, which is really exciting. And, yeah, I mean, you know, it's one of those things where you're never quite sure if it's going to connect, if it's going to work. You know, it's a period piece about UFOs and about, you know, a real life government

program and about a cover-up and about a conspiracy. And, you know, you hope there's an audience out there. I think the thing that can sometimes scare people is that it's a, you know, when we were shopping the show, it's like, we love it. We think it's cool. But it's like, ooh, period. You know, 1950s, that's a little hard, you know. But then fortunately, you know, history, of course, like, came on board and they are like the perfect home for this not only because of their own history with, you know, exploring UFO phenomenon. There are various, you know, documentary series and then unscripted programming.

But they also, in their scripted programming, are looking strictly at scripted. historical scripted content. And then so it ended up being a great fit. Yeah. And I think two, like two things. First of all, like, I think people crave period pieces now because, you know, kind of not to get into like politics or anything like that, but the world we live in, everyone's looking for something that was way back when, when things seemed to be, you know,

easier. I know. So, well, hey, man, I just read like, you know, like the. There's something called the doomsday clock, which is a clock that scientists, you know, it's a metaphorical clock that scientists use and other historians use to kind of judge how close are we to, like, nuclear war. And it's the closest. It's been, I think it's even a little bit closer. They said it's 100 minutes to midnight. And we were two minutes to midnight, midnight, you know, meaning like, you know, sainara.

Yeah. And in 1953, you know, so it's, it's, yeah, you know, it's a crazy, there's some crazy. parallels between sort of the 50s and today, you know. Yeah, absolutely. And another thing I know you guys, you and Sean, sort of, when you talk about the show, is, you know, come for the drama, stay for the UFOs. And I think that's important to you is, again, we're focusing on a drama. This is not a documentary.

So we'll get to that. And we'll get to the UFO purists a little later. Yes, yes, yes. Oh, sure, yes. Yeah. But so I got to ask, in terms of season two, Dave, did you have kind of like a blueprint or idea where the story was heading before you even knew you were getting a season two. Like, how does that work in television?

Yeah, sure. We had some broad strokes. You know, Sean and I, the way we usually do it, we did this in season one, too. Like, I had written a show Bible that kind of mapped out the vision for the show, the vision for the series, had some big ideas. Like, you know, like, we were always going to end in the DC UFO wave of 1952, like, as our cliffhanger at the end of, you know, episode 10 of season one and stuff like that. And for season two, we sort of did the same thing.

Like we got together, you know, we discussed ideas. We put things on the bore. We, you know, we mapped out cases we loved. And we always wanted to do Roswell. But we, you know, the show starts, you know, five years after, in season one, five years after the Roswell incident, it's occurred. And now we're picking it up and it's like six years after it's occurred. Good evening. I'm General James Harding from the United States Air Force.

and we're here tonight live from roswell new mexico i want to talk to you about a rumor that's been circulating again about a mysterious crash that's happened here in the desert i'm here to tell you the american people that's just a hoax harding silencing roswell again not if we're here it took us a little time to kind of figure out what's what's the right way to do that story we're not going to fake it's too famous a case you can't pretend that you know roswell didn't happen in 1947 and happened in 1953. So what we ended up doing is we, sort of the answer, the answer that we ended up finding was, uh, was actually Roswell itself because we started to think about, okay, like,

everything we've read, everything we know about Roswell. This is a town that was silence, you know, that was, that was forced into secrecy. And then we were like, well, what if, just like eventually that did happen, what if, like, witnesses started to talk? What if somebody came forward with, with evidence threatening to expose it to the world? And then our guys had to go in there and examine it as a bit of a quote unquote cold case and, you know, and then follow these breadcrumbs that then we could layer in all the really cool things that actually did happen in Roswell. And once we had that breakthrough, everyone got really excited. And we're like, okay, I think we think we know how to do Roswell.

And we, you know, we actually tried to cram our two parter into one episode. And it was like, it was this like mega outline. And we're like, oh, my God, like, how are we going to do this? And then we kind of realized, wait, what if we split this in half and actually do a two-part or do it almost like a movie and a bit of an event and do a part one and a part two, which was something new for us also? But we felt that, you know, when you're dealing with something like Roswell, you got to pay it the respect it deserves and not just kind of breeze through it. And we, you know, every little twist and turn, all those like clues that they follow, those are all inspired and based off real. you know, moments and events that we learned and would circle when we were reading various books about the subject. So, you know, it's really a honor to, like, be able to tell, obviously,

it's our version of Rosalind, but we really do try to weave in as much of the real life, you know, reports and what witness statements and alleged events that occurred there as we possibly can. I mean, you guys hit every beat in terms of, like, kind of the main, the main, points of contention in Roswell. You know, you got the crash. You got the cover-up. You hit on some of the explanations of what actually happened. We won't give those away, but...

Right, right, right. You guys... Yeah. You had a challenge, and I, you know, when your first ads came around and all us UFO people saw the smoking flying saucer behind Heinek and Quinn, we were like, oh, God, they jumped the shark. But, of course, just like you guys did in season one, I... I think you surprised a lot of people and the way you structured it and told the story.

I loved it, man. I have to say that. Oh, thank you, man. I appreciate. I'm sorry, there's like a barking dog walking. Not at all, but everyone knows you're outside. Yeah, I'm outside right now. Skywatching.

I'm in L.A. and I'm outside at a friend's house right now, but I really wanted to do this, this podcast. And, yeah, I appreciate it, man. Yeah, I mean, exactly. And like, you know, I think some of the things that worried me early on is like, occasionally I would see people being like, oh, they're like, they're making Roswell happen in the 50s. It's so, you know, like, what are they doing? They've jumped the shark, I thought that too. You know, and no, no, no, no, no. We will never, you know, as far as, you know, we can try, we will never, especially if something as important as Roswell do that, you know, it will be, we will come at it sideways. We will, you know, and then I was happy to see like, you know, in the trailers they got, you know, six years ago in there. And I was like, okay, good. At least people now know, know, but like we're not pretending it didn't happen six years ago. You know, um, and I think, and you know, we're always trying to do with the show is like, not everything you see is what it appears to be. And I won't go, I won't spoil it because only episode one is aired so far, but like, you know,

even with some of the more, you know, like the moment you're talking about the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the intersection downtown Roswell, essentially, you know, there's, there's more, there's more than meets the eye there in terms of what's really going on. Oh, yeah. And then it keeps going from there, you know, and we answer that pretty quickly in the second episode. And then we delve back into some of the even better and more interesting aspects of a real-life case. Another thing that stuck out to me in the season premiere, the two-partner, is the relationship with Heineck and Quinn. I mean, knowing you were getting another season to sort of flesh out these characters, how was it to explore the whole partner, you know, sort of buddy-buddy thing and write.

for these two guys again. Oh, man. So much easier in some respects and so much more fun also. Just in that we know the actors that we're writing to. You know what I mean? I mean, we were casting the show. We were breaking many episodes in the room before we fully had our cast up and running. And certainly, like, when I wrote the pilot, like, had no idea who we were going to cast.

And so once you've seen the show and worked in the show and seen the episodes as many times as we have, you know, it's in your DNA and in your bones. that's like when you're writing a quinline or you're writing a heinek line, you're just picturing Aiden or Michael doing it. You look flush. Something bird. I'm going to get cheeseburger. You want a cheeseburger? Did you hear anything that I said?

Thanks for your help. I believe I just pointed out of him. You're the one who ran. You said this place was steps from the water. We just haven't found the steps yet. How much did we save? Enough. Enough to get lost.

Or you could book a stay with home. Welcome to your ocean front room. Just steps from the water. The Hilton sale is on now. Book on Hilton.com or the Hilton app and save up to 20% to get the stay you expected. When you want savings, not surprises. It matters where you stay. Hilton for this day. It makes it a lot more, I think it helps us become more nuanced because we know what we have and we know the arsenal we have of our great actors and like kind of the tools and our tools. box to be like, oh, he's going to kill this line. He's going to do it this way. And then, of course, your actor surprise you and they make it even better. Honestly, like, these guys, you could read the phone book. I mean, like, they, they really can take any line and turn it into something

great. So we are writing is so elevated by what they bring as actors. It's unbelievable. It really is. I mean, I was talking to Paul Heineck yesterday. And the one thing we kept circling back to is the performances in this show. I mean, it's amazing how they have crawled into the skin of these actual people or amalgamations of different people involved with Blue Book. And really, I mean, they just seem so much more comfortable with one another now. Yes. And that's where I could see it going, you know, that trust they're building.

That's right. And what's kind of great is, like, you know, Michael and Aden didn't have a relationship prior to the show. You know what I mean? And so they'd never worked together just like on the show. They decided their characters in the show had never worked together. And then over time, gradually their characters developed a deep respect and a friendship and all that kind of stuff. And that is very, very true for Michael and Aden as well. So, like, I felt it right away.

I mean, they, A, they like, they slipped right back into their characters. I couldn't believe it. I was like, you know. And B, there is like, both on the show and in real life, there's just such a more of a great ease between the two of them. They really know each other. they, I mean, they know each other, you know, like, really well, you know? I mean, how many times are they just sitting in, like, you know, that, like, you know, in the green tent or whatever, you know, in the black tent, like waiting, waiting in between takes, you know, just, you know,

so they know each other extremely well. So hopefully that shows up on screen, too, and they're a lot of fun to write to, and their banter and all that kind of stuff is just as fun as when they get into big squabbles and fights and all that stuff, which they do as well. Yeah, I love that about these two. Well, another one of the people I want to talk about in terms of writing is the character of Mimi. She's becoming a bigger player in the show. Yes. Get that from the Roswell two-partner.

Could you tell us a little maybe about developing her character this season? Yeah, well, you know, we wanted to take Mimi in a new direction. Like the Susie storyline, while the demos definitely does come back into Mimi's life, she's also on a new path. You know, we wanted to the real life Mimi Heinek got very involved in her husband's work. And we wanted to honor that and start to move her. in those directions. So we also were fascinated by the fact that in the early 1950s, these real-life UFO, you know, civilian UFO groups began sprouting up. And we thought that that could be an

exciting new way in which she could delve into a world that was very much a part of UFOs and a part of our show in our world in the 1950s, but, you know, and give her a new agency to kind of come at the cover up and the conspiracy and UFO phenomena in a completely different way in a way in a way that was more accessible for someone like her who is not a government employee and who, you know what I mean, is just a civilian, but who has seen behind the looking glass and has seen too much and knows that her husband's on to something. And so she's trying to assist and help out in that way. And it's kind of cool because we get to see these sort of grassroots early UFO groups

that sort of sprouting up where they, you know, where they were, you know, on the same, on the same searches as Pinec was in many ways, just without some of the resources, you know, and having to kind of do all this research for themselves. You know, there's a line early on where and I think it's in the pilot where like Evan, who's the name of the civilian UFO group leader, says, you know, like we are dangerous and the government knows were dangerous. And that was true. I mean, the CIA really was concerned with these civilian UFO groups. So, you know, for a number of reasons, probably Paramount being A, these are grassroots civilians. in UFO groups that are claiming not only that UFOs exist,

but that the government is lying to the American public without this phenomenon. And those kinds of ideas that your government is lying to you, those ideas spread. Then, of course, that's very dangerous if you work for the federal government. So it's a fun sort of avenue that we get to explore this season. And we try to do that in a number of different ways. I mean, like, without giving too many spoilers away,

like we look into things like the contactee idea that, you know, men like George Adamski that began sprouting up in the 50s. We sort of have an episode that's a bit inspired by his accounts, you know, these other sort of elements that are connected and were a part of the culture and the sort of UFO milieu of that time. Wow. That's see, that's when, you know, that we know that you guys did your research because I know someone like Adamski, like I think the FBI had almost a hundred pages. on this guy. Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah. Adamski, I mean, honestly, there could be a whole, like, movie or series on, like, Adamski. I mean, he's fascinating. The Soviets allegedly tried to, like, recruit him at one point to, like, I mean, there's all kinds of different things. The British were really interested in him as well. You know, there's, yeah, he's a fascinating character.

So we take a small chapter from his life and kind of look into that in one of our episodes but it's a it's a wonderful episode and you know and that's it comes later in the season but I'm excited for it cool well I got to ask this is kind of a listener question Dave um yeah one of our listeners was wondering um the shout out to Donald kehoe in the first season I that really surprised a lot of us and we were like yes finally one of us is on television besides high yeah is that something we can expect in season two key heho is wonderful I I uh I don't want to, you know, and I actually love the actor who played Kehoe as well. He did such a great job. Kehoe is somebody who we, I guess I'll say that, like, we didn't quite find a place for it this season, but that does not mean that he, Kehoe was a major figure all the way through.

And I, and I will say this, if we're fortunate enough to be able to tell some more stories in our world here, we already have some ideas for him. So he, because he was, he was huge. He was, he was a huge influential character in the 50s and wrote some incredible books and was a huge whistleblower in many respects. So a real figure worthy of, you know, I'm, I'm so excited that we, I have his books on my shelf and I'm just excited that we got to like get him in there at all. Yeah. But I'd love to get him back, you know, I really would because he's, you know, he's a big piece of this. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, he's one of our heroes for sure besides Heinek, but sort of in the same vein of that, Dave. I noticed a couple Easter eggs in the Roswell episode, like a certain bourbon bottle. I won't give that away. Also, the front page of a newspaper, again, I don't want to spoil too much, but can we expect sort of more of these little nods to the UFO community? Yes. Whenever I love Easter eggs, so whenever I get on set, I try to, there's some stuff even in season one where we're, like Mimi and Joel are playing Scrabble and either the first or second episode in Hine and I think it's the first episode and like if you freeze frame the the the Scrabble board table it says

things like you know like mystery and conspiracy and you know things like that but like yeah I mean we we yes the bourbon the bourbon thing is definitely a great Easter egg for us that was a lot of fun to actually and you know I don't know if I should spoil it or have people look for it but basically the name the brand of the bourbon. It holds a significance in UFO history and I think anybody familiar with it will immediately get the reference. Yeah, we'll leave it at that for sure. Yeah. I'm Nick, the host of the UFO Chronicles podcast with firsthand witness accounts of the strange and unexplained covering UFOs, cryptids, conspiracies, and the paranormal. Real people, real encounters.

So come with us on the journey into the unknown. UFO Chronicles podcast is available to listen to on all apps. I'll see you soon. Well, a lot has happened between seasons of your show in terms of like real-life UFO world stuff, including info on the Navy UFO incidents, even this storm area 51 thing. Oh, I know. It's been crazy. It's insane, dude.

So do you pay attention to stuff like this? Does it bleed into your show at all when you're writing? Oh, 100%. I mean, I'm not kidding. 10 minutes before I hopped on the phone with you, I was telling my buddy who was not that aware of, like, you know, the Nimitz case and all those videos, those sort of fighter jet videos that have come out of at tip.

And I'm telling him, I'm like, yeah, man, there was a Project Blue Book 2.0, like inside the Defense Department at the Pentagon, and the U.S. Navy now admits not only that, it's so fascinating is the U.S. Navy now has done a few things. Not only there's like the most powerful Navy on the planet that admits military training exercises. Things were flying in the sky that they chased and invaded their fighter jets and they have no idea what they are. They also admit that like those videos were never meant for public consumption because it's an ongoing mystery. And they felt that releasing them would be a threat to national security.

And now they've also changed their whole policy on how they report UFOs and all that kind of stuff. So it's, oh yeah, I love, I mean, I'm, you know, I, given just my Google, search history, I get bombarded with almost every, every article that comes out. I also just follow a fair amount of UFO folks on social media and get to, you know, people I've met at UFO conferences and things like that. So it's, it's, it's, it's, I, I love being up to date on current stuff. And then when there is a current event or a current theory or something, sometimes we can find ways to actually be like, well, did any of this stuff exist in the 50s or did any of these ideas exist in the 50s. And a lot of times we do find that, oh, no, that's actually, he was piggybacking off

this other guy's work who was picking off this other guy's work. That guy could be somebody we feature in the show. So we try to do, we try to do our diligence there of whatever's happening in the present day. Can we find its source and put it in the past, you know? We can't always do it, but when we can, we try, you know. Right. And I know in your promotions and stuff that we're going to be visiting a top secret installation too, which I know you guys, you actually wrote this before all that storm area. We did. Yes. So the area, oh yeah, Area 51, of course. And that was part of your question. So give me, yes, that all that storm area 51 stuff came. We were already going to area 51. We felt, you know, it was, it began to be built in the 1950s and we felt, oh, yeah,

we have to, we're going to Roswell. We got to go to Area 51 as well. And then all that Storm Area 51 stuff happened. And, you know, honestly, I was sort of of two minds about it. I was, um, I listen, I understand everybody's desire to want to know what's really going on in there. I want to know what's really going on in there. And I think we do have a right to know. But I was worried that people were going to get hurt or that there was going to be, I was worried that it could go really south.

And I, and I'm really glad that it didn't. Um, even though it didn't get us any closer to answers, nobody got hurt. And I think that's the most important thing. But yeah, that was one of those things, too, where we were like, oh man like we're going to area 51 there's a storm area like you know but you and your mind goes through all the questions like do we try to capitalize on this do we but i we ended up sort of not really because we just weren't sure what it was going to end up looking like and also it's like people know what area 51 is i think that's enough you know exactly um but it's uh we do get you know

with you know we certainly we we go inside and we you know we and listen i mean i i i i all the stuff with Bob Lazar is fascinating to me. And I think some people, you know, without saying too much, I think people will see some nods to some of the things that he claims. And, you know, while still kind of doing our own version, you know, of what that base is. And, you know, through the lens of how our show can do it, which is always a tricky thing because we kind of have to walk that tightrope between, you know, is something paranormal and extraordinary. happening here or is there an earthly explanation? And we try to, we always try to kind of present

both sides because we know that, you know, it's really up to the viewers to decide not only with our show, which is, of course, just a piece of drama, but even with the phenomenon itself. You know, I mean, I hope that not only do we have UFO believers, but also skeptics watching our show. And then I hope that it inspires them to go back and look at the case and be like, huh, what do I think? Do I think the Lubbock Lights was a flash of, you know, it was like birds or do I believe the astronomy professors who were like, no, it was. was like a V-shaped formation in the sky, like, of lights that we can't explain. Absolutely, man.

And I'm so happy to see that the, uh, history channel is doing these sort of addendums after your episodes again, where they tell like the actual case that your episodes inspired by. Um, I think these are so important and so responsible. Yeah. One of the, the, the show was always conceived with those in mind. I mean, I'm not kidding. Even in the, when they, before they bought the spec pilot, I was brought in for like,

a meeting where they just had a couple of ideas and they sort of wanted to like float a few things by me and I um I pitched this idea to them especially because it was history that after the show we you know we should do a like to learn more about the real life case or can we do like a a little segments and that kind of the thing and only in later did I realize just how important it was at the time I just thought it would be really cool it would drive people to do their own research and stuff like that, but I also think it does something else for us, which is, I hope that it draws a very clear line in the stand between, like, our show, which is a dramatization and a scripted series and in no way documentary from the, from the cases that inspire our show and the real-life ingredients

and events and historical events that inspire our show so that people can always go back afterwards and be like, oh, my God, oh, they took that from there. That's what really happened, or this is that. So that, that's hopefully some of the fun. in watching the show is that they get to do the deep dive afterward. That's one of the joys for me is honestly like I live tweet the show on the East Coast. And usually what I'm doing, I drop,

like, you know, when I can think of some funny stuff behind the scene stuff, I dropped that as well or a little anecdotes about production or things of that nature. But even the more fun thing for me is just being like, you know, this is what really happened. Or if you want to learn more about this,

look up, look up this book or, you know, look up this fact or, you know, little insider stuff. just to help feed that conversation because that's what I hope the show does you know I hope the show broadens the conversation about UFOs makes it more mainstream makes it less a subject of ridicule

makes it something that people can be like oh my god like these cases really happen and this has been going on for a long long time I mean since the A-tip stuff has come out I've definitely it's it's for the first I know that there's a bit of a changing in the tide because I know for the first time people I have friends who have always because I'm the you know I'm the guy at like three the morning, like, you know, telling people, like for years, decades. I mean, you know, as far back as I can remember talking about this stuff. And now I'm starting to get, you know, it's a new thing when I'm getting hit up with like emails or calls and people are like, wait, is this for real, dude? Like, wait a second. O'Leary, is all this stuff you were like ranting about back then? Is this

is some of this true? And I'm like, yeah, yeah, man, that's why, that's why I've been so excited about it, you know? So it's sort of, you know, it's, it's nice that the show is hitting at the same time that I do think there's a little bit of a shift in the national consciousness about this and in the very sort of sober-minded, you know, military world and sort of like things kind of beginning to change to some degree, um, with regards to this stuff. I think so. And, you know, say what you will about things meaning to happen or meant to be, but I do think, you know, between all the A-Tip revelations and Project Bluebells, like either it was the most genius business marketing scheme of all time or like you guys you did you tapped into a time in history where UFOs are on the minds of more people than I think ever before so yeah for more than that um absolutely and and definitely not a product of anything we did it just like we just kind of hit struck right when these things were happening you know and it was if it wasn't going to be us I guess it was going to be someone else in the aftermath of it but it was nice to kind of be just a little

ahead of it and that we you know i think it was the second day of production when they when they dropped the when the new york times front page story dropped the the news about atop i think you're right yeah it stopped production it was like what you know and i was like yeah oh my god i wasn't like yeah i had no idea obviously but i was like holy shit like you know and then i got worried that like honestly i was like oh my god it's like is disclosed this of course is where my mind goes for a second i was like is disclosure going to happen and wait and how is that going to affect the show that's a very valid concern. Is that going to ruin the show? If we find out that aliens exist or UFOs are extraterrestrial, like, is your job done? I'm like, maybe. Right. But I don't know. I think,

I honestly think, yes, maybe we now know that, but dude, you know as well as I do. There's going to be a zillion more questions coming after that one. Yeah, that would just be the beginning of this whole new era. And it's like we're almost there. It's like, you know, almost half the country accepts that this is happening. Yeah. You know, and there'll be a tipping point where it's sort of undeniable.

I can, I could taste it for sure. Yeah. Let's see. I got just a couple more here, David. Sure. Yeah, of course. Awesome.

Thank you. Thank you for your time. Is there... I think I heard you talk about this in an other interview, but do you, did you go into season two with like sort of an overall theme

of what you really wanted to get across? Yeah. Just a little of everything. A little of everything, but definitely we, you know, and Sean, Sean elegant eloquently says this and I'm piggybacking off him a little bit, but I think he's absolutely right. Like season one in some regards was strictly about the mystery in the sky, although, of course, we do explore the conspiracy to some degree.

But I think this season we delve as much into the conspiracy on the ground. You know, we introduced this new element of the CIA, and this is all rude in history, and how the CIA and the U.S. Air Force started to vie for control over the UFO issue and how different factions of our own government wouldn't necessarily share information with each other and wanted to be at the forefront of this because they knew that it could change the world. So we delve as not like, you know, we're still every week we got like a cool case and every week, you know, we're dealing with UFOs and mysterious events. And in many respects, I think we pushed some of that stuff even further.

But we also open the, now that we've laid the groundwork of like what, the show is now we sort of you know we open it up to these larger how does the conspiracy work how deep does it go you know we start to try to answer questions that we didn't answer in season one like who exactly is uh unseen or as some people have called them like the fixer i saw that online for a while or the man with the hat um ian tracy i call him he's a friend he's wonderful the actor who plays uh who plays unseen so we try to delve into some of that stuff as well and and really start to try to answer question, you know, what was that mysterious artifact that he has Heinex Steel from a governmental base in episode 6? What,

what is the purpose of this mysterious, you know, obelisk in Antarctica? You know, these are things that we have not forgotten about. Our mythology, we take really seriously. So our deeper sort of, our deeper sort of Easter eggs, kind of, you know, mystery questions, the symbol, all that stuff is, ain't going anywhere and if anything hopefully going deeper um you know we delve into a little bit of mk ultra a little bit of psychic psychic espionage you know we we we we we we we we we we we we we we we we we we we we we we we we we we we we're doing to some very sort of connects to this larger phenomena of unidentified flying objects oh yeah I know exactly what

you're talking about but we'll have to let the viewers see that when it happens that's so cool man Yeah, and I personally want to know what the hell those numbers are that that kid is saying at the end of every episode. Oh, yeah. So you better answer that this season. Oh, yes. The numbers. The numbers. Oh, yes.

Yes. Yeah, we're getting there, man. We are getting there. Awesome. Well, Dave, I can't thank you enough for taking the time to do this, my man. I know that you live tweet these episodes, which is so rare and so cool for a creator to do that. Oh, thanks. So where can we find that?

Yeah, sure. Yes, I'm on Twitter at David E. O'Leary. So it's just my name, but just with my middle initial, which is E. So David E. O'Leary on Instagram, you know, I also try to share, like, we have some wonderful fans who share, who create fan art for the show. And I'm like, I collect everything for the show. I mean, I'm not kidding. I go to, like, the prop. I have, like, Roswell wreckage in my office.

Like, I have, you know, I got the I beam, like, on my desk. You know, I try to collect all this stuff because it's just, it's, listen, it's, for me, I'm just like, I'm like a fan and a UFO buff like everyone else who just got fortunate that I got to create a show that about something I love. So it's, it's one of those things where I'm like, okay, I have to hand, I have to, it's almost like I got to hand on to, you know, hang on to all the tangible evidence I can that this thing, that this unidentified thing called the show really happened. Before your memories wiped clean. Right. Before my memories wiped and nobody. But he believes me and discredits me and throws me in prison. Right. You never had a show.

What are you talking about? You lunatic. But yes, yeah. So please, you know, I hope, you know, definitely encourage folks to follow me. I love hearing feedback. You know what I mean? I read it all, you know, maybe I shouldn't, but I read the good with the bad. And I do, I do try to, you know, I do try to soak it all in.

And I get, you know, I always, I have a deep respect for the history for it. And, you know, I understand the, you know, the, the, the deep sort of, quote unquote, purist, you know, UFO historians as well. And, you know, we are no way trying to ever confuse or muddle those issues where we're, in fact, trying to take those ingredients and bring them to a mass audience and then guide them back to looking at the real life stuff. And that's what I always encourage our fans to do. I'm like, you want to know more? Like, I love doing the deep dive on our fun Easter eggs and all that kind of stuff. But it's also like, you know, I can give you guys a zillion. books. Like if somebody asked me, what books are you reading? I will tell them. You know, like,

you wait for Roswell, I would check out Witness to Roswell and the day after Roswell. Those are two wonderful books worth checking out. You know, I mean, and for each case, we have those sort of great primary resources that I think are grounded and sober and wonderful. So, uh, tell me about man. I'm literally bringing home one, two, three, four, five. I'm looking at them right now, eight boxes of UFO books for my apartment in New York City, bringing them back to my parents in upstate New York because they just don't fit here. It's New York. Our apartments are like the size of a closet. I don't know what I was thinking. Oh, man. Well, you know, we have like a growing library in our writer's office, which is like it's getting to be a really great collection, you know. Do you take donations? A lot of different stuff. Oh, yeah. I had the pleasure of seeing Paul Heineck the other night at an event. He threw for the screening for the first episode, which was wonderful. He did a whole presentation on the real life Heinek, by the way. It was the most incredible PowerPoint presentation I've ever seen. But while I was there, you know, somebody gave me a book that is really interesting that I hadn't heard of.

So, yeah, I love getting that stuff. I just add it to the shelf and I'm like, I hope I get to it. Yep, yep, always learning. I love it, man. Yeah. Well, guys, you can catch Project Blue Book on Tuesdays at 109 Central on the History Channel and be sure to follow Dave on Twitter. Also follow at History Blue Book where they retweet your live tweets too. And that's it, my man.

Thank you. Yeah. So much for coming back. I appreciate it, man. And any time, dude, you need anything. We love talking to you. And yeah, man, we'll talk soon, I'm sure. Yes, we'll talk again when season three happens.

Oh. Knock on wood. Yeah. Hey, from your lips, man, from your lips. I love it. I hope so, man. I hope so. That's it for this week's episode.

I hope you've enjoyed our Project Blue Book doubleheader with Paul Heineck and David O'Leary. If you want a more accurate portrayal in terms of historical context and uncanny research. I have to recommend the amazing biography by Mark O'Connell, titled The Close Encounters Man, How One Man Made the World Believe in UFOs. I had the immense pleasure of interviewing the author when the book first came out, and it was an absolutely fascinating conversation. Go all the way back to episode 10 of Summer in the Skies to listen. Please take a few moments to subscribe, rate, and review the show on Apple Podcasts, your Android apps, or wherever you get podcasts. It helps us gain visibility and finding listeners. Also, share the show with a friend. You

never know what story they may have to tell. Follow us on Twitter at SummerSkies and Instagram at SummerSkies pod. Over 50 bonus episodes await you over on Patreon. To learn more and to become a patron, visit patreon.com slash somewhere skies. Find out what I've been up to, read a ton of UFO articles, and contact me personally through the official website, Somewhere in the skies.com. I'm also to taking submissions right now for an upcoming volume of witness accounts. So if you want to tell your UFO story in your own words, this is an amazing opportunity to get your story out to the public and help normalize the topic of UFOs. Use the contact tab on the website to discuss further with me. Thanks to Kirby Dixon at History, the E1 Podcast Network, and especially to you for listening.

I'll see you here next week, and remember, keep your feet on the ground, But never stop searching. Somewhere in the Skies. Somewhere in the Skies is produced by Third Kind Productions in association with the Entertainment One Podcast Network. To learn more, visit Entertainment One Podcast.com. Enjoy more ways to save at Ralph's, like low prices in every aisle.

And when you download the Ralph's app, you can clip and save more with digital coupons every week. Plus, you can earn fuel points to save up to $1 per gallon at the pump. At Ralph's, you can enjoy more ways to save and more rewards every time you shop. So it's always easy to save big every day with savings and rewards. Ralph's SoCal for over 150 years. Savings may vary by state.

Fuel restrictions apply. See site for details. Some follow the noise. Bloomberg follows the money. Because behind every headline is a bottom line. Whether it's the funds fueling AI or crypto's trillion dollar swings, there's a money side to every story.

And when you see the money side, you understand what others miss. Get the money side of the story. Subscribe now at Bloomberg.com. This podcast is brought to you by Carvana. Selling your car should feel like one less thing on your list. Not one more. With Carvana, it is. Just go to Carvana.com.

Into your license plate or Vin, and get a real offer down to the penny. No back and forth, no surprises, just an experience you can trust. Like your offer? Accept it. Schedule pickup. to you with a check in hand. Your car, your timeline, your terms. Visit Carvana.com to sell your car today.

Carvana. Pick up fees may apply.