Somewhere in the Skies - Decoding the Mysteries of Roswell, Area 51, the Montauk Project, and Mothman (w/ Jennifer Marshall)

Episode Date: September 1, 2024

On episode 371, Ryan digs into the archives for this classic interview with investigator, Jennifer Marshall. They discuss their co-investigation into the Roswell incident, involving recovered materials from the crash site and the analysis of the Ramey memo.Then, Marshall tells us about her Navy service, her private investigation work, and how the opportunity came about for her new televisions series, Mysteries Decoded. They talk about what she investigated, including The Mothman, the Montauk experiments, the Lizzie Borden murders, and so much more. Learn more about Jennifer Marshall at: www.jennifermarshall.com Learn more about ANOMACON: www.anomacon.com Patreon: www.patreon.com/somewhereskies ByMeACoffee: buymeacoffee.com/UFxzyzHOaQ PayPal: [e-mail] Website: www.somewhereintheskies.com Store: http://tee.pub/lic/ULZAy7IY12U YouTube Channel: CLICK HERE Twitch: https://www.twitch.tv/somewhereskies/videos Order Ryan’s new book: https://a.co/d/4KNQnM4 Order Ryan’s older book: https://amzn.to/3PmydYC Twitter: @SomewhereSkies Read Ryan’s Articles by CLICKING HERE Opening Theme Song, "Ephemeral Reign" by Per Kiilstofte Produced by LIONSGATE Copyright © 2024. Ryan Sprague. All rights reserved. Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/somewhere-in-the-skies. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Choice Hotels, get you more of the experiences you value. The Can Beah Hotels Got It All, a rooftop bar, have a ball. Bring a date, your squad, or even your mom. Book direct at choiceotails.com. Today on the show, we've got Navy veteran, private investigator, and host of Mysteries Decoded, Jennifer Marshall. And I know that there's going to be people who watch the episode and say, oh, those people are just fame and fortune seeking. What a bunch of garbage. I'll tell you this.

There were two people involved with the 2004 incident off the USS Nimitz Battle Group, who have talked to me confidentially. Off the record, I cannot and will not use their names. They were not included in the show. These people backed up and gave me additional information as to what we show in the program. So if the people on the program are doing it for fame and fortune, What are these other two people doing it for? They have nothing to gain. They have everything to lose. They came to me as a fellow Navy veteran in confidence and said, yes, this is what happened.

This is somewhere in the skies with Ryan's bread. Ryan, thank you so much for having me. You will hear my cap purring. He's right next to the mic. So the more the merrier? Yeah, absolutely. If there's anything my show needs, it's cat purring, for sure. Well, I'm glad to be here.

Thank you so much for the invite. finally we made this happen. I've had people asking for months and months. Like, why didn't you do an interview when the Roswell special came out? So we're both so busy, but now we have so much more to talk about. Yeah, it was insane. We had talked about it back then, but we were really, really busy. And Roswell just happened like a complete tornado. It happened. It was done. And then, yeah, go, go, go. Oh, my God. It was a whirlwind. And then we'll get to what grew from that, obviously. But before we sort of get to why I brought you on today, Mysteries Dakota, your new show on the CW, I love to get the origin story of like how people

came to to research or investigate the paranormal UFOs, just mysteries in general. And kind of our origin story of how we started working together. So before we get to that part, let's start even earlier. Can you give us a little background on your time in the Navy and What made you go down that path? Yeah, so I joined the Navy when I was 17. I was five weeks out of graduation, high school graduation. I grew up in a one-stop-light town, and there were nine veterans in my family. So it was just one of those things where, you know, one of us was going to join.

It ended up being me and not my brothers. But I joined. I served for five years. I had an incredible time when I was in, and I really just feel like it set up the path for who I was to be when I finally grew up, per se. So I love the Navy. I can't say enough good things about it. Yeah, and I do want to ask you later on about the connections you still have with veterans, because this is something that I'm very passionate about as well. It's something that a lot of people in the, I would say, the civilian world don't think of often.

So we'll get to that a little later. So Navy and then the acting career. So how did this happen? How do you go from being in the military to being in action? actor on television. You know, if you would have told me 15 years ago, you're going to get out of the Navy and you're going to be on Netflix's number one show and you're going to have a show of your own on the CW, I would have slapped you silly. There's no way. That's not Jennifer. That's not possible. That's not a thing. So, I mean, growing up without much money, that's a career for other

people. You don't ever think that that's something for you. But basically, I stumbled into it because, you know, I touched on this in the Montauk episode, but I had gotten sick from the anthrax shots when I was in the Navy and it put an end to what I had hoped would be a 20-year career. I was in for five years at that point. I got sick. I had to get out. And, you know, I had this friend who was on a local commercial and I said, how did you do that? And he said, oh, I take classes at this local studio and I got paid $400 for that commercial. So at the time, I thought $400 for a half a day of work, that's a lot of money. Let me go see if I can do this. So I started taking classes at this place and I booked my first job two weeks in. You hear about so many people getting involved in the acting

world or the entertainment industry through commercials. And for any of us out there living in, you know, here in New York, in the theater world, that pays so, so little. And the rewards you reap are more just like, you know, the satisfaction of having done a show eight times a week or something. But when you get into the commercial world and you're there for, you know, maybe maybe 12-hour day or whatever, but then you realize how much the paychecks are for. That is where it's at, people. Oh, absolutely. And I mean, that commercial that I was talking about was a non-union commercial in a local market. But if you get into commercials that are union, if it's a big spot, a Coke spot, you could make 50 grand, 100 grand. I mean, it's not as common as it used to be.

More and more spots are going non-union. But if you can nail one of those, I mean, it's a a lot of money. It's a lot of residuals. That's what I like. I'm not in it just for the satisfaction. I need to get paid to. It's a business. I'm a business woman. So, you know, I don't tend to book that many commercials. I tend to book more film and TV, which is weird because most people book more commercials and they find it harder to get into film and TV. So I'm an odd duck that way. Well, you did mention one of the number one shows on Netflix. So I got to out you here. What are some of the, I guess, the more high-profile things you've been involved with, if you don't mind telling us your little Hollywood career here? Yeah, I, you know, I've worked in TV and film here in Los Angeles since 2013.

So since that time, I booked Stranger Things. So I play Max's mom on Stranger Things. I had an amazing guest star on Hawaii 5O playing Lieutenant Colonel Bailey. She's a joint mortuary affairs officer who oversees. the dignified transfer of one of our airmen killed in Kabul. So that was a very meaningful episode for me. I was guest starring as a very strict headmistress named Marlene on Nickelodeon's Game Shakers. I've been in several films, both that went straight to TV and then straight to DVD,

and then some that were in the theater. So thankfully, I've been very busy since I've been here. But of course, Stranger Things was really the role that kind of turned everything for me. And after I booked that, I couldn't tell anybody until it aired. So that was terrible. I wanted to you know, jump up and tell everybody, but you can't because you risk getting fired and or sued. Oh, yeah. And I mean, these NDAs, they're no joke. I mean, we couldn't talk about what we were doing for a while, I remember, even though the turnaround was very quick. Oh, it was so quick. And people would ask me, because they knew that I was out of state and they knew that I was,

you know, because where we were at, there was no cell service. So I had to explain to my reps, you know, where I was, but I couldn't really go into specifics. So you just have to have a great relationship with, you know, your boss, your reps, whoever it is that you kind of report to and hope that they understand that you're not working on just some crackpot something. Right. And, you know, I mean, when you told all your reps and everyone that you were in Roswell, they were probably like, what? When I told everyone I was in Roswell, they were pretty damn sure they knew. why I was there. So I, oh, well, with you, of course.

Yeah, I think with me, they were just like, what are you doing? And they knew in theory, you know, they know our clients are private investigator. They joke with me about things sometimes. But I don't think that they expected it, nor did I expect it, to lead into a TV show. That was never really the thought process behind me getting into it. Same here. I mean, I knew we were doing a one hour special. and it had always been a dream of mine to investigate the Roswell case.

So even if it never went anywhere after that, I was so happy that I was literally being, like, whisked off to the desert where something crashed in 1947 to live out this fantasy I'd always had of speaking to people who found stuff out there or talking to the granddaughter of, like, the main military officers. So I got to ask you, how did the opportunity for you come about? with Roswell Mysteries Decoded. For me, it was a chance meeting, as these things often are, at AlienCon, where our executive producer, Gary, met me. But how did it come about for you? You know, it's funny. I was brought in for a, I don't want to say exactly what it is, but it was something on History Channel. And they brought me in because I had, they knew I had a background in naval aviation. I think they thought I was maybe a pilot or something like that, because People assume naval aviation.

No, I just worked in logistics, but I went in anyway, and they said, you know, we're looking for an investigator with a background in this. And I, you know, I talked to them. They said, yeah, the network didn't think that you were a fit for that. Could you come back because we want to pitch you for a show? And you get this all the time living in Hollywood. So I went in and we did kind of like a reel. And I just remember I was very sass.

It's very sassy with them. And Dan will tell you. was very sassy. And then they had called me and they said, hey, do you remember you came in and you did this reel? And I said, yeah, they said, we need to pitch you for something else. Can you come in so we can reshoot some of it? So I went in. They weren't very specific. And then they were telling me that they pitched a bunch of other people to be your partner. And the network was kind of, nah, we're not really into that. And then they told me, you know what? You're the person that we want. You're the person the network chose. You and Ryan are going to get together and go to Roswell for

this and I think I had three days notice. Yeah, I'm pretty sure that it was insane. I know. We met at the airport for the first time. And trying to do all that research was, you know, I had, because that's not my area of expertise, so I had three days to just, I literally was scouring everything from 12 to 18 hour days. And for the listeners, you know, on Mysteries Decoded, on Roswell Mysteries Decoded, we have researchers behind the scene. So Ryan and I are certainly up. to snuff, but there's no way we could cover all of that, especially when I got into shooting the series, you know, you're shooting a new episode every two weeks. So unless I want to abandon my family and go into a library 24-7, I'm not going to have as, you know, the knowledge that I

would need working on a regular case. So Ryan and I had some really great researchers who work at the production company who helped us as well. Absolutely. You know, one of those two is a, he was actually just on the show last week, Alejandro Rojas, who was. is our consulting producer. And I mean, this guy's life is UFOs 24-7. So, I mean, I'm so happy they brought him in. And that's what they do. They find people who know these things.

They collaborate with you and I. And that's when we can really start to do the research. Because like you said, at the end of the day, it's television. Like, these things happen very quick. And they can be very stressful. So we don't have months and months to prepare and sit in that library. like you said, to look at these things. So, I mean, there was stuff I was learning from our researchers and from you.

So I have to give you credit for, you know, literally doing a crash course, no pun intended. See what I did there. Yeah. I like it. Thank you. With Roswell. And I am so happy that they went with you because I can't imagine having done that with anyone else.

You were so patient and understanding and open-minded, I think, the big thing when it comes to this. Like every network when they want to do one of these investigators shows, they want that cookie cutter, molder, and scully thing. And I think it was smart. You and I went into the saying, look, let's not play these roles. Let's say what we really want to say. And I think that was great that we had that opportunity to do that because you don't see that often. Oh, absolutely. And, you know, for people listening who watched Roswell or they watch the show itself. Of course, there's editing to kind of make it, you know, a little more he said, she said. You and I definitely have our own opinions of things that went on there.

But I think what's what's wonderful about us is we can just say, you know what, I don't agree with that. You don't agree with that. We think differently. But that's okay. Rather than what's really common in society, oh, you don't believe what I believe. Okay, well, you're not worth my time and see you later. And I think that both of us got stronger because we were not in an echo chamber. We were challenging each other. And I just, I loved working with you and again on Area 51 because you are so passionate about the subject matter. And even if I wasn't interested at all, which I am, but let's say I wasn't, just your passion makes it interesting. It makes me want to learn more. Oh, that's extremely kind of you to say. And I think that's rare.

to find people so passionate about these topics that maybe they'll change your mind, but at least you're open to the possibilities. I mean, you come from a very evidence-based background, as you have to, in the kind of work that you do outside of acting. So, I mean, I knew full well going in, like, I'm not going to be able to prove shit to Jennifer. Like, this is UFOs. This is Roswell. We've been trying to prove this thing was a cover up for 70.

years or even longer proving that it was alien. So I think it was so refreshing to see something on television that didn't say, you think this, I think this, we're never going to agree. Because I think you and I both came out of that project being like, whoa, we kind of had an entirely new door opened after hearing some interesting stories in Roswell. So I do kind of want to touch on that a little before we get to Mysteries Decoded is. Oh, yeah. What were some of the highlights of your time in Roswell and that evidence, like I said, that we uncovered? What really resonated with you? You know, I think what sticks out to me about that episode in particular, being at the crash site, being there and realizing that what I had assumed and what I had thought in my head, it completely was not that.

Some other things came through. The man, are we going to talk about the man who came up? it. I think this is a great story to tell because, again, with television, there's things that just don't make it on. And this is one of the most pivotal moments you and I had. Yes. So, you know, when you go to shoot in Roswell, people assume that you're making TV or film about aliens or extraterrestrial craft. That's what they assume. So the morning that we were shooting at the diner, someone came over to one of our cameramen and said, hey, what are y'all shooting? And the camera man said, we're shooting a documentary on groundwater. And the man said, well, good, good thing you're

not talking about the aliens. And he said, what do you know about aliens? And this man basically told the cameraman, um, who is a very reliable person. He's, he's not someone who would lie about this or anything like that. He's actually, it's actually funny that he was working on the type of show that we were doing because he's even more of a more of a skeptic than I am. So, um, and he's very soft-spoken. So I know that this happened and he did not just, you know, say, I'm just going to say this. Not a thing with him. So a man walked up to him. He said he was working on a documentary with groundwater. He said, this is what I know about aliens. And so the cameraman just sat there and listened. And the man claims that, oh gosh, there was an orphanage at the time, a home for

children, not so much an orphanage, but a home for children where parents had relinquished custody of their children due to mental and physical disabilities that their children had, hydrocephalus, cerebral palsy, things like that. So what he said was there was supposedly some sort of TB outbreak that went through this home for children and most of the children or a good number of the children died from whatever this was, supposedly TB. So he said that it was absolutely, there were absolutely beings in this craft when it crashed. He posits that it was a U.S. government experimental aircraft and they did not want to risk the lives of pilots.

So they had taken these children that supposedly died. They did not die. They had taken the children and they had put them in the craft to try to study the effects of how quickly that craft flew on the human body. That's why there was a need for caskets for child-sized caskets. That's why the children looked as a, they had the beings looked as if they had large heads. That's why they were small in stature and their skin was tinged gray. So immediately, Ryan and I hear this and we are sickened and freaking out

and thinking, does this have merit? What's going on? And, you know, if let's just say that's true, just for the sake of argument for this point, if that is true or has any kernel of truth to it, no wonder the government says you think that it's aliens, right on, keep thinking it's aliens. Great. Because if that were to be the truth, how horrific. Right. And I mean, we'll get to some of the stuff the government's possibly done in terms of experiments with people. But this was a theory that had been going around the UFO community for a while in different forms. You know, one minute it was, you know, orphans from America.

The next minute it was POWs from Japan. The next minute it was people from Russia. These theories have been going around for a while that Roswell was much more human than I think a lot of people are willing to accept in the believer camp. When I heard our camera and bring up this story, I was stunned because it was so accurate to things

I'd been told throughout the years. It matched up perfectly with the investigation you and I were doing in terms of the evidence we found. And it just blew me away that a local in Roswell, who, you know, has heard every story under the sun, said not only that he'd heard this story, but that he'd heard it directly from people within his family that were involved with it. So that was scary to think, if any of that's true, any of it, it's so disturbing.

Well, and later, you know, I was on set in Los Angeles and somebody said, you've been gone for a long time. I was tech advising for a military scene for the show. And he said, you've been gone a long time. I said, yeah, I was actually just in Roswell. And he said, he's been gone. He said, you know, what were you shooting? And I gave him the bare minimum. I said, hey, you're, you know, it's coming out on this day. But yes, basically we were shooting about that. And he said, you know, I went to New Mexico Military Institute.

And this is a retired colonel that I know. So, you know, he was in the Army for 30 years. He's very reliable. And I said, really? And he said, and he said, and I actually have a connection to Roswell. And I said, well, you know, of course, tell me more. He said that there was a woman who used to be married to one of the town veterinarians. He had since passed on.

And when he was a cadet at the New Mexico Military Institute, you know, this was 30 years ago. But she was married to the town veterinarian. And she said that her husband had come home. And he had said that, and at this time when she was talking to the colonel, her husband had died, you know, she's retired. They're elderly at this point. but back in 1947 he had come home and he was screaming and crying and shaking and she said what happened and he said that and this was a very reserved man you know that's not a standard of behavior for men back then and he had said that you know they had called him in to his practice

and they had said we need you to vivisect because one of these beings was still alive and he said that there were three beings and he explained that they looked small um a tin and just gray to their skin. He said that he didn't know if they were human or not, but two of them were dead and they wanted the other one vivisected. And he said, he just started freaking out and said, no, and was crying and screaming. And she said that after that, the, you know, quintessential men in black came to their house and said that they needed to speak to him. They spoke to him in private, and he never talked about it again. So to me, you know, do I know that this is necessarily true? I don't know, but it backs up exactly what the other story was. And, you know, this woman at the time was

in her 90s. So why is she going to be making up stories to tell local cadets at the New Mexico Military Institute? That just doesn't make a lot of sense when somebody has lived a very honorable life, doesn't have a history of making up stories. And then in their 90s decides to invent this story. You know, so I have to give that some sort of credence. Maybe he told her that and it wasn't true, but then again, why would he make it up? It just doesn't make any sense, you know? Exactly. Yeah. And I mean, we, we could debate till, you know, for the end of time what Roswell was or wasn't. Will we ever know? I don't know. But I know you and I, we are itching to get back out there because there's some leads that we have where we're like, whoa, we really got to, we got to look at this even further. So I guess sort of rounding out Roswell, what do you want to do that's left with investigating Roswell? Is there anything that really we weren't able to cover that you'd want to do?

Or where do you stand right now on the whole thing, Jen? You know, I wish I had access to the files of base personnel at that time. That's something that, you know, if that did exist, it's probably long gone. It's been destroyed. I would not have access to it. I would love to do, I would love to do more interviews in person with people. Now, at this point, it's children of people and it's grandchildren of people, but there's something to be said about many people coming forward who do not have a history of exaggeration or lying and saying, you know,

this is what happened. This is what my father said. This is what my grandfather said. I really want to do some more interviews because sometimes the beauty of interviews is sometimes people will say something as an aside, that they think is nothing, but it connects to something else that you already know about the investigation, and it's just a tree branch, and you follow it and you see where it goes. Sometimes it leads to nothing. Sometimes it leads to something really freaking great. That is such a good point. I mean, the only reason you and I are talking about Roswell right now was a chance, like remark to Stanton Friedman, one of the biggest, you know, UFO researchers of all time, who we lost recently, unfortunately. But A chance remark that someone said being like, oh, you should talk to that guy, Jesse Marcel.

I think he was somewhat involved with that. And then, boom, the entire Roswell incident that had been covered up for so long was blown wide open. And that's why we're talking about it now, because it was out left in obscurity after it happened. They thought they'd covered this thing up and no one was ever going to talk about it again. But look, it's 2019 and we're still questioning what happened. Well, you know what I would love to do is I would love to go to Kingman because there's, was supposedly a UFO crash there. I would love to go to Kexburg. I want to see what the connecting threads are because I don't believe for one instance. Now, I'm not saying that I know

for a fact it's extraterrestrial craft. I don't know that. Maybe it's military craft. It could be anything. But, you know, when these things happen, this isn't just conspiracy theorists making up things. That's that's not possible. Oh, in Roswell and 47, they made it up. Oh, in Kexburgh in 65 they made this that that's a nonsense theory in itself. to say all of these things are just created out of somebody's minds. Something happened. We just have to ascertain what. And I can't wait for that possibility for us to get back out there.

But from Roswell came Mysteries Decoded. The one-hour special did so well with the CW. They were so amped to keep doing this that they created Mysteries Decoded. And you are the main host. And I got to tell you, Jen, like, I love, watching this show every week, just to see the looks on your face when you hear some of these stories. Oh, my God. You're becoming a meme. It's hilarious. Oh, I need some gifts. I tell you, I've rolled my eyes so hard and I feel like they're going to break off into the back of my skull.

See, but here's the thing. That could be taken the wrong way in terms of your demucker or an extreme skeptic when I know for a fact that you are very open-minded. I am, but sometimes, people, listen, the eye rolling comes from, and I'm not going to say what episodes these people are on, but, you know, there were three people that we interviewed who, they're not hosts. They are, they are not co-hosts. They were just people who were on the show. And three individual people who are charlatans, you know, just everything about them, it's like they're just trying to sell me something and they're trying to think that I'm dumb and they can kind of try to convince me that A, B, and C is true. And there are a lot of people that we bring on the show who are very credible, but there are other people we bring on who have these fanciful things going on. And none of it makes any sense. So yes, I'm extremely open-minded. But, you know, I can also sniff out BS like nobody's business. And when somebody's trying to feed me something that is clearly just absolutely not true. And I feel, you know, maybe if I, if I believe my lie, she will too, I just cannot control myself. I just can't. Welcome to my life.

I mean, I go to these conferences where, you know, you have a retired military base commander, you know, with audio documentation of a UFO event happening, who's risking his career, his pension and coming forward with these things. And then the next speaker up, a guy who says he met blue chicken aliens and worked on a Mars base with Obama. I mean, this is the sad, sad state of affairs when it comes to these topics, paranormal, UFO. and the communities that crop up around these is, yes, you have very credible people coming forward and telling stories, but there's always that shadow, that dark shadow behind them of a charlatan who's going to take advantage of people's belief systems. And it hurts the credibility of everybody involved. And that's who the main, that's who the mass media, you know, hooks on to is the blue chicken Obama Mars guy. They don't look at actual sightings. say, okay, this is a UFO. What could it be? Could it be a military craft? Could it be extraterrestrial? Do we know? No, we're just going to lump in all these legitimate sightings in with the blue chicken guy. Exactly. Oh, man. We could do an entire episode on the blue chicken guy, but we don't want to give him that

much acknowledgement. To be fair, I've never heard of him, so I'm glad Blue Chicken Guy is not on my radar yet. He will be seen. I'll be sure to get you some info so you can not check him out. But let's get to the first episode that aired on the CW of Mysteries Decoded, and that's the Lizzie Borden murders. Oh my gosh. I've always been fascinated by this case. I went to see a play based on it not too long ago, actually. So it was pretty fresh in my mind when this came out. So Lizzie Borden, what was the experience like, first of all, working with a paranormal investigator? I have my reservations about people who are psychic mediums. You know, Stephanie, she's just like,

medium, the paranormal investigators were there. And I just, they're called the ghost guys. The ghost guys? The ghost guys, I think, yeah, they're pretty cool. I just started following them on social media. Yeah, and pardon me, it has been months and months and months since we shot that. That was the first episode we shot. But I enjoyed working with them. But of course, I went into it thinking she's probably a liar or a fraud or mentally ill. And I, you know, I say that just because 95% of the people who come to me and say they're psychic, it's one of the above. And I don't mean mentally ill and a disparaging way. I mean it as a literal, you know, I've dealt with mental illness as well. I mean it as in perhaps she believes these things that are not true.

But, you know, the longer we were there, there were things that I could not explain. And I went into that thinking, guys, come on, let's just go in here. Let's just get this done. Let's look at the science. I didn't expect anything to happen. So when we're in the room and they said, can you get down where Abby Borden was found, where Abby Borden's body was found. Sure, I got on the floor. I wasn't scared. I wasn't nervous. I said, I'm going to do this, not feel anything. Get up and, you know, go eat my dinner and be fine with it.

When I got down there, they were saying, well, there's this creature on the bed, and I felt something or someone touch me in the side. It was not pressure. It was a poke of static electricity in my ribs. Naysayers would say, no, she's wanting to think this. She's thinking something was going to happen. No, I was thinking my boots are cutting off my circulation. How long do I have to stand here? I'm pretty sure my how long do I have to kneel here. I'm pretty sure my muffin top is hanging out over my pants. What's going on? I was just thinking of all these other things. And the CW cut it out, of course, because it was profanity. But I actually stood up after I felt the poke and I said, fuck this, we are done. I said, we are done. And I was very thrown by that. I did not expect that.

And then later, you know, I had never felt to that malevolent creature that they said is next to you and it looks like it's trying to hit you. I never felt any evil, anything like that. I did feel the child that was around. And it was this weird, euphoric feeling with a hint of affection, kind of, you know, how it is when my kids are around. It was like this hint of affection and protectiveness. And it was the oddest thing I've ever felt because here I am at a murder scene. I should have felt either bored if I'm a skis. or nervous if I'm not. I felt the euphoria and I felt that several times and Stephanie said to me

later, uh, during a few of those times, she said, the child is back. I didn't say anything to her. I didn't say this is how I feel. She looked at me and said, do you feel her? She's next to you. So I still can't say what Stephanie is and what she isn't, but I can tell you that there were several times I felt something. I didn't say anything. I didn't look a certain way. I was. mind of my own business, and she said to me, the child is back. So maybe it's possible she sees things that we do not. I don't know. And I'm not ready to discount that because we don't understand how souls work or different dimensions or, you know, we don't understand that. So even as a skeptic, who am I to say, oh, that doesn't exist? Right. And, you know, I'm sort of glad that the episode

really teetered on both ends of the spectrum. You know, you've got the sort of paranormal angle of trying to possibly communicate with spirits in terms of trying to solve this case, which is, you know, an interesting way to go, obviously. But then you had the other side of it, too, where you spoke to an author of the book about Lizzie Borden or who was the other gentleman? He was like a crime scene investigator or he was a detective, right? Yes, yes. So he, yes, so he was a detective and he had worked as a crime scene investigator for

years. And it's funny because, of course, you know, as we shoot, it's, you know, two or three hours and then it becomes a two to three minute scene. But he was really interesting. And he gave me a perspective as to, because people said, well, Lizzie couldn't have done it because many sources said she was left-handed. And he showed, in fact, if she was left-handed, as sources have indicated, she absolutely could have done it. She could have come up behind Andrew Borden on the couch and did it that way. And that would have explain the spatter, it also would have made sense because if you're about to murder your own father, you know, do you want to be looking right at him as you plunge that hatchet into his face? Or is it kind of more palatable to stand behind and do a sneak attack? So he was really, really interesting. And I wish, I wish that that scene could have been longer because he provided so much science behind it as far as blood spatter, trajectory. Oh, it was fascinating talking to him. I'm sure. And I mean, sort of going out of this episode, I mean, I don't know about you, I lean more on the side that she definitely did this. I mean, there were some pieces of evidence that

you guys found that I'd never heard before that really convinced, at least for me, all paranormal stuff aside that Lizzie was not the person that a lot of people think she was. And there were reasons for that. Well, I absolutely believe that she did it. And if she was a man, there would be no discussion about it. But there were so many things that just didn't make sense. And there's, you know, and Stephanie said the woman I talked to, she could not have done this. Listen, plenty of people do bad things and have remorse. If I believe that she was talking to Lizzie Borden, that's quite possible that she has remorse. It's quite possible she was a changed person. It's quite possible she lived the rest of her life, upset and sickened by what you. she had done. But at the same time, you know, there was a quote that was cut out. I said, Lizzie Borden is the first documented case of affluenza because she murdered her parents and then bought this huge estate with the blood money and lived in that for the rest of her life. That was a level of, you know, that was what she, that was how she wanted to live. And then as soon as her parents were dead, you know, she moves into this sprawling estate. She got exactly what she wanted. So,

there were so many things that were inappropriate. Another thing that was cut out was the all-mail jury. There was a photo of them that we showed in the program. They sent Lizzie Board in this photo of them, like some sort of weird fan club. I thought, what is going on here? You know, it was everything about it was just off the walls. And Rebecca Pittman, the author, we interviewed, her book is almost 900 pages. And I had gone through the court documents and I had looked at all of the things she had provided. And she spent, years of her life putting this together, and it was very persuasive. She was dealing with primary source documents. She's not going off of hearsay. Right. And the fact that she has those documents from so long ago, I mean, that's, that's digging beyond like some surface level look at this case. That's like, it gets to the point of almost an obsession. But again, that's when authors really, they have a lot of power and they can change, they can ultimately change history at times. Mm-hmm. Yeah. No, Rebecca was amazing.

She, definitely, I mean, she put a lot of time and effort into that, but she was spot on. Anything that I asked her that I wasn't clear about from looking at court records or, you know, reading witness accounts, she knew the answer right away. There was nothing that she had to say, let me look that up. And if she didn't know, she would say, well, that's not really well known. I've looked into it here, here, here. And then I had also read the book from the Fall River Historical Association. And that was a very, very thick book. It was hard to find. I had to enter a library loan it from University in Austin, at a university in Austin. And they sent it to me. And, you know, they're very much of the belief that she did not commit this crime. I just don't see how it's possible that anybody else could have. It doesn't make any sense. And if she had a people, penis, she would have been convicted. Case closed.

It does require a penis. You know, to be a murderer, it does not require a penis. It just does not. Thank you. I'm so glad you said it. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. All right.

Well, moving from penises to the mothman. Oh, my gosh, Mothman. You met a firsthand witness of Mothman, which was really cool. You also worked with one of my good colleagues, M.J. Baniya. on this episode. And I got to ask, what was this experience like? What did you make of mothman before this? And what were your first impressions when you got there to Point Pleasant West Virginia? Well, I'll say that I had not heard of mothman outside of just being familiar with the mothman prophecies.

It was not something that was well known to me. When we went to West Virginia, you know, I'm a country girl at heart. I grew up in a very rural area. I still go to the road. People say there's a rodeo in California. I do. I go to the rodeo. You know, that is kind of the place I like to be. So when we went to West Virginia, it was just wonderful. The people were amazing.

And it was really, really nice. They were incredibly welcoming. When I first started looking into it, I thought, you know, this had to be some moonshine and, you know, cowboys who were just out seeing something, right? just out in the middle of the woods. But the more that I looked into it, I thought, this cannot be where all of these people come forward and they're seeing the same thing. What I believe happened with Mothman was there had to have been something

in the beginning because there were too many witness accounts that match. The police would call people in. They'd immediately separate them, have them write it down on paper, and the accounts would match. There were so many legitimate sightings. And then I think after that, it kind of became Mothman was the default.

People would see something. They thought it was Mothman. And I get it. It's a kind of mass hysteria that follows that. But there was something in the beginning. Now, what that is, I don't know. There was something that MJ and I discussed that was, you know, also didn't survive the edit. There is a concept in many indigenous cultures of thought forms.

So basically a thought form, and this is a very lay person's definition. I'm not an expert in the subject. but from what I've read of it, if enough people believe in something's existence, think of the mind power that comes from that. We don't understand the power of the brain. We don't understand exactly how it works. So if you have dozens of people, hundreds of people, thousands of people believing that something exists, a thought form is basically where it is willed into being. Now, this could be a sight or a sound or a presence. It doesn't necessarily mean that all these things, people believe mothman exists and then a creature is created that lives and breathes and walks it's

not that it's just kind of uh this this thought form this being that's there so do i think that that possibly could have happened uh later on i do because we don't know enough about the brain to say that's not a possibility mj was so well read he was so well spoken he's so intelligent i loved shooting with him. Yeah, yeah. What's always fascinated me about MJ is this cultural approach he takes to the paranormal. It's not just like, oh, I believe in Bigfoot or I believe in the mothman. It's, okay, well, let's look throughout the decades of how these stories either manifested or changed or how culture or belief systems impact, you know, what we're seeing or think we're seeing. You know, a lot of people connect the Mothman now to this silver bridge collapse when, in reality, when you really look at the string of events, there was not that many sightings of the Mothman at the Silver Bridge. It just happens to be, you know, what, like you said, a default. Like this horrible tragedy happens in a small town. Let's go to the closest thing, this harbinger of doom, as it were, the Mothman.

But and people want to assign, to be fair, people want to assign meaning to tragedy. You know, you saw this after, you know, not not to get political, I won't, but you saw this after 9-11, I'll keep it on a historical note. You know, people, they were thirsty for vengeance. And it made people feel good to say, hey, we are going to go after these people that caused 9-11. It gave them a purpose. Now, I'm not saying that was right or wrong. What I'm just saying is that is a natural reaction to, tragedy, you want to lash out at somebody, you want to get even, you want to assign blame. And that's absolutely understandable. And I think when you're dealing with a tragedy like that, you know, they don't necessarily at the time know that the bridge was made for this amount of traffic and this is the weight that's now on the bridge. It hadn't been regularly inspected. That's not something back in those times where they can go online and say, hmm, when was this bridge last inspected? So of course, rather than lashing out, you know, where the blame should have been, it was, it said, okay, well, maybe it was this. This is what I saw. I saw this too. And,

and it became Mothman. It became that he was the one, not necessarily to blame, but he was the one that was there warning them of this impending doom. Giving a face to like the things that we can't explain or the things we fear. It's how we do with it. I think that's such a good point. And I mean, Right. Yeah. And you guys also came out with some really interesting evidence for this episode. I won't give it away too much because all of these episodes are free to stream right now. I highly suggest people check them out over at CWC. But this idea of this photo you guys had in the episode, I think that that photo has been going around for years now. And a lot of people say this is evidence the mothman exists. And I think you guys have. hit the nail on the head with the photo, the analysis that was done on it and what it actually was. I won't give it away, but I think it was 100% the answer to that photograph. In my personal opinion, I was, I mean, so we won't say, we won't say what the photo, but I will just say that, you know, this photo that was supposedly taken by a hunter who wants to remain anonymous,

Jen's work was so thorough that in my private practice, I want to use her for any audio or visual, audio or video forensics that I need because I was so impressed with her. She gave me information. I did not go into that thinking that it was going to work out the way that it did. I went into their thinking, no, no, no, I'm pretty sure that, you know, the photo is A, B, or C. And she shocked the hell out of me. I mean, the face that I show, that's not an acting face. that is a what the hell. I did not think that she was going to say that to me. Yeah. And I sort of went in being like, oh yeah, she's going to prove it was hoaxed or like whatever this thing in the images was

like brushed into there, CGIed, whatever. But her answer to it, I was like, yep, boom, done. So I highly suggest people go to the episode to see what we're talking about. Definitely. What do you think of this idea, wrapping up Mothman? This is the same thing you and I came across with Roswell as well, is this idea that a town that may not have been known for much, now part of the cultural zeitgeist of the paranormal or euphological, they become prosperous because of this event in their town. What do you make of that? To be fair, there was probably one or two people that misconstrued what I said on the show about basically profiting from disaster. So I'll try to be more clear here.

you cannot say that the town of Point Pleasant has not profited from the lore of Mothman. It absolutely has. People go there because Mothman is, you know, it's very prevalent. They have a museum there. It's very much a tourist draw. Now, with that being said, they did not profit off of the collapse of the silver bridge. That was the worst bridge disaster in U.S. history. No one is profiting off the tragedy. Mothman became inextricably linked to the Silver Bridge collapse. But the fact that Mothman is alive and well in their town as far as lore,

I don't put that with the Silver Bridge collapse. So I think that it's one of those things. It's a sleepy town. It's kind of something fun when you remove it from the tragedy and you only look at it in a paranormal lens. It's kind of fun. It's kind of kitsy. And, you know, I think they've done a good job at kind of marketing the town

in this way and they have a festival every year. But I will be clear that community is affected by the Silver Bridge collapse. It is something very traumatic and very tragic for them. And I didn't meet anybody who wasn't affected by it by one way or another. They all have relatives who either died or knew someone who died. It's a very small, closely knit town. So while I think that Mothman is very kitsy and very cute and it's a tourist straw there, and I loved the people of Point Pleasant, I don't see it at all as them profiting from any, you know, from the death and destruction that happened with the Silver Bridge collapse. You have to, you know, parse those, you have to take them as two separate issues, if that makes sense. Yes, they're links, but you have to take it as two separate issues. Nobody there thinks it's okay to profit off the death of all those people who perished. Exactly. I think you guys sort of summed it up best when you said,

at like, end of the day, no matter what you think about Mothman, the Silver Bridge collapse is a tragedy, and it should be treated as such. And, you know, that is the case with a lot of sort of mystery, mysteries that occur, you know, whether it's the Bermuda triangle where people disappear forever. Like, yeah, it's alluring and intriguing to think, oh, some paranormal or weird thing happened. End of the day, someone died, you know, or someone's missing. So we got to keep those things into perspective. And I think you guys did such a good job at focusing on the human impact that this event had and completely separated in it from mothmand.

Well, thank you. I do want to share something that got cut. Yes, please. MJ and I were so annoyed that we didn't find anything in the forest. We were in the woods just running around and you know, we're trying to find something and we're, you know, know, we're open to this and there was nothing even scary. It was just beautiful and we just loved being out there. It was gorgeous. And we left there and we were driving back so grumpy. We saw nothing. We saw nothing because this was right after we shot Lizzie Borden. I had shot Lizzie Borden.

And so I went into this thinking, we're going to see nothing and we're going to see something. And when we we saw nothing, it was such a letdown. But the investigator and me should have known. You're not going to see anything. Just go out for a midnight stroll in the woods and be okay with that. Yeah, that's tough. I mean, welcome to paranormal investigation. People don't know, like, even these ghost hunting shows, you know, some of them are probably a little staged or whatnot, but they are there for like, you know, hours on end with nothing happening. And then the minute something happens, that's why you see every ghost hunting show be like, what was that? And they cut to commercial. Come back. Someone knocked over the tripod. Right, right. Now, the staged thing. the pilot podcast who did, who reviewed the pilot or Lizzie Borden episode of Mysteries Decoded, it was funny because speaking of staging, they said, you know, Jennifer's having breakfast with Stephanie the next morning and her hair is good and she's been through hair and makeup.

I just want to say, I had not been through hair and makeup. I had not. I just use a very good setting lotion and I can sleep and my curls will be there in the morning. They'll be loose, but they'll be there. And, you know, when we were eating breakfast, my breakfast was disappearing pretty quickly. So I'll say this. If you're watching the show and you see a continuity error like that, it's because, and it happened in Roswell, too, we are shooting.

We're not worried about refilling food so it looks good on camera. We are worried about getting an in-depth conversation. This is not acting. You know, when you and I were at the diner in Roswell, we were talking and eating. And yes, you know, the way they edit it, sometimes it'll go. from half a burrito to no burrito. But that's because they're taking three minutes of an hour-long conversation. So yes, those continuity errors do exist. Try not to look into them so much because we're trying to be realistic. And honestly, as an investigator, if I'm worried about what level of

food is on my plate, you're not going to get the best questions coming out of my mouth. Right. And again, that's why it's scripted reality, people. Like, they're in even more with Mysteries Dakota than most of these shows is the reality aspect of it. Like, there's so little acting or script when it comes to the show, and I respect Morning Star and C.W. For allowing that, that, you know, that openness to both you, your co-investigators, and the people you interview is, there's not a lot of structure. We're literally going in to investigate, and they let you do what you do best, and that's to investigate. So I completely understand that.

And I remember after the Roswell special, people's primary question for me, not what do you think happened at Roswell? What do you think of the metals you guys found? The question was, did you eat that entire burrito? Because that thing was huge. Did you have a burrito too? Yeah, I had the, I think it was the alien burrito, is something they called it? They were so good. Oh, my God.

The food was amazing. It was so good. And there is an Easter egg. The executive producer is sitting at a table behind us. So you guys watch it. The executive producer is there. And it's funny because I remember they were like, okay, we're getting, you know, we're leaving to go shoot in the next place.

And I said, okay, I'm going to finish this burrito. And they're like, we're on a schedule. I'm like, okay, yep, I'm going to finish this burrito because this burrito was good. And we sat there and ate. I mean, the burrito was insane. If you guys are ever in Roswell, go. That was the best diner, the best coffee, the best service. I loved it.

It was amazing. The cowboy cafe. I think it was cool. Yes. See, I just did like a mini, you know, for free. I just gave them a mini advertisement. Cowboy Cafe, Roswell, New Mexico. Come on in.

Great burritos. Great coffee. Great service. Yep. They make their own, I think, Tabasco sauce too. Definitely check it out. Hey, everyone. Ryan Sprague here, host of Somewhere in the Skies.

If you've ever thought about supporting us, we have great two easy options for you right now. If you listen to the show on Apple Podcasts, you can click the subscribe button at the top of your Apple feed. Or you can join our Patreon at patreon.com slash somewhere skies. Both of these options give you the same benefits, early access to the main show, bonus episodes and content, and priority to ask our guests your listener questions. So to help support Summer in the Skies, click that subscribe button on Apple or visit Patreon.com slash somewhere skies. Thank you so much for your support and keep looking up.

All right. So moving to the big one, Jen. You have a very close connection to this, the Montauk experience in the other world that you live in. So let's cover this one, the Montauk project. Tell us a little about your connection to Montauk before you even went there to investigate. You know, Stranger Things was supposedly inspired by what happened at Montauk. So when I went to Montauk to investigate this, it was like my two lives, one on TV and one in investigation. They were colliding. It was the most surreal thing ever, but it was so intriguing to actually be on the ground where all of these horrible things supposedly took place.

And we'll get to some of those horrible things because I heard things in the episode that I hadn't known previously about Montauk, and I've been looking at that case for a while. But what stuck out to me first and foremost with this episode, Jen, was your co-host. Oh, my God. I felt like I was watching, like, if the people that made Parks and Rec or the office wrote for the X-Files, they could not have cast your co-host any better. Holy shit, this guy was hilarious. So, tell us a little about my room.

wall. Oh my gosh, Ryan. He, he's off the wall. But that's just his default. I remember waking up one day and they're doing a coffee run and I'm coming out of hair and makeup. And he's already bouncing off the wall. And he said, yeah, I really need some coffee. And I'm like, ooh, this is you uncaffeinated? Holy cow. That's just his default. And there were so many times I literally grab his knee because he's, you know, his default is kind of a yell. And I was like, Sam, we can't yell. We're in the middle of a restaurant or in the middle of whatever. But with that being said, it was so fun shooting with him just because you never know what's going to come out of his mouth. And they have so many bloopers. I mean, some of the things that he says, he is just, he's, he's just Sam. And he was a conspiracy guy.

I mean, that's what they do. Yeah, yeah. And with Sam, I will say this, that is not an act. That is his default. That is who he is. I shot with him, you know, from 7 a.m. to 10 p.m. some nights. And did he get a little quiet, like, you know, after lunch, carb coma? Sure. But for the most part, that is Sam. Just wired all the time. I think what really stuck out to me with this episode is the passion that you saw in what he was looking for within the Montauk project. And you too, because you had a very interesting story to tell in the episode, which you mentioned earlier, of kind of, kind of, we think of the military as like this sort of very structured thing where things go point by point. No mistakes are ever made. It's very rigid. But then you come to things like the Montauk Project or M.K. Ultra

or Project Orange. All these things where the, the military has been, has used people for things to, in their personal opinions in fischeldom to get something. And we don't know what the hell they were trying to get out of the Montauk project. But what do you make of all the claims of the stuff that actually went on there? You know, it's interesting because the Montauk project is this huge umbrella that has a lot of crazy claims. So, you know, child abduction, time travel, you know, experimenting on children. and there's there's a lot that kind of goes into it so when people say oh i believe in the montauk project

i always say well what do you believe because there's so many individual claims you have to judge each claim on its own merit so for me i'm not naive enough to think oh the government never does a b and c because from my own experience clearly i know that's not true time travel i think is pretty much you know unproven i i think if time travel did exist there would be time travelers among us now. And I would hope that we would be doing better than we are now as a society. If you have time travelers and you have hindsight, you could kind of, you know, try to clean up all the things that are going on right now. So that's my main beef with the time travel aspect. Also is the Philadelphia experiment with the USS Eldridge is looped into Montauk. And we didn't

talk about that a lot in the episode. But the one thing that strikes me about the Philadelphia, experiment is supposedly the USS Eldridge went through a space warp and it ended up, it ended up, this is so crazy. In a nutshell, these guys knew that the ship was going through a space warp, so they jumped off the side, these two guys, and supposedly they landed up, they landed on the cliffs of Montauk in 1983. And this was in the 40s. And so I'm trying, you know, talking to people, I said, well, how could this be? And then supposedly the ship, as it was going through this space warp. There were sailors who got stuck like pimento cheese style in the walls.

And then I said, okay, well, if this is true, who were the sailors that died? The ship was later sent to Greece. So wouldn't have Greece said, hey, first was sent to Greece and it became the Leon in Greece, and then it was scrapped for metal. So wouldn't they have said, why are their body parts in the walls of this ship? So it was a lot of unfounded, just kind of crazy. claims. But I do think that personally what I believe happened was there were people who were working under the guise of the government and whether or not they were ordered by the government or they were

just bad people. They were doing things to children. There were things that were brought up as far as pedophilia. And you have to stay away from that because it gets into lawsuits. And that's why I say allegedly, allegedly, allegedly. But I think what we know about the Catholic Church and, you know, things have happened in the Boy Scouts and things have happened with pedophilia throughout society that people said, no, that's not a thing that never happened. And then it ended up happening. So I don't think that that's something that we can say was definitely not something that happened. When Joe went under hypnosis, the hypnotist said, she said, no, this doesn't seem like it's sexual abuse related. And Joe says that he does not recall any of that happening. But clearly something happened to Joe. That was not

him faking. That was not, do I know that that was the case? No, but I know that something happened. So there's a lot going on there that comes down to bad men in positions of authority or power and children and vulnerable people being lured in. I'm glad you said that. I mean, I deal with so many unsubstantiated claims in the alien abduction realm of things as well. And when a lot of these people go under hypnotic regression, it's the same thing. The first question everyone asks me is, oh, well, or not even questioned, claim they say preconceived notion is, oh, they were sexually abused as a child. You know, this is a way to deal with it. And I can't argue that and say some of them are or aren't. But at the end of the day, something happened to these people. You know, it's not

a complete fantasy. Something clearly traumatic happened to them in their lives, whether or not It was the evil black government doing experiments or aliens conducting abduction experiences on people. I can't tell you, but something happened to these people. Right. And I think people who say, you know, I don't believe that. Somebody's faking. I would say, well, listen, that's fine to maybe doubt the veracity of their claim. But to say that somebody is going to bring all this unwanted attention and critique to

themselves by saying something that happened that didn't. I don't believe that. I believe that people are influenced by trauma. Something happened. Maybe they don't necessarily know. But I never doubt the pain someone is going through. I definitely look at the claim and say, okay, just because you're saying that this happened, that doesn't necessarily mean that I believe, but that it costs me nothing to extend compassion to you when you're hurting. That costs me nothing. And I think with Joe, do I know that he was a Montauk boy? I don't know that, but I know that the session on TV was three minutes. The session in real life was over an hour.

And I saw him crying and shaking and it was hard for her to pull him out. I don't know what happened to him, but something happened. And he deserves respect and compassion for whatever he may be dealing with. Yeah, that was hard to watch. It really was. And I can't imagine like having to endure. that entire regression, both for you guys watching and for him, too, you know, reliving whatever this fractured memory is of his or, you know, struggle with if it was a dream or not. We may

never know and Joe might not ever know. And that's kind of probably what the Montauk project wanted all along. And I think a lot of this comes back to Preston Nichols. And Preston Nichols, supposedly I had hypnotized Joe, you know, 20, 30 years earlier and he had relive some traumatic experiences then. I don't like anything about Preston Nichols. I've watched videos. I wish he was still alive so I could interview him in person, but I've watched videos with him.

I've read things that he's written. And there is something about him. I don't like him. And that's as far as I'll go. But it's kind of all roads lead back to the story. Preston Nichols character. And I try not to speak ill of the dead. He's not here to defend himself. But if you look into Preston Nichols and you look into the Montauk Project, there's a lot of things that are very shady. They don't make sense. And I'm not okay with a lot of the things that he said

and did. And what's even more terrifying is to think that this may have actually had nothing to do with the government. That this was just rogue scientists or people claiming to be doing projects for the government doing these horrible things to kids. I don't even want to go there. It's just, it's almost unfathomable to think that people were doing these things. But, you know, all we sort of have left is this dilapidated radar tower and all these dark, disturbing stories. You know, there was one thing that was cut out. There was supposedly an LSD house at Camp Hero. Right. And it was marked officer housing. So, Not as in single officers where they would go to stay, but as in a house for an 05 or an 06, like a lieutenant colonel or a colonel and his family.

So this house, when I had seen photos of it, Brian Minnick showed photos, there was a open bay for showers. and there was open toilets. Now, if it really is a base commander's housing, it's set up as an actual house because a family lives there. Yeah. So what I believe is they marked it as being a house for the colonel on the base

or a general on the base because that keeps 99% of base personnel out of there. They're not authorized to go there. They don't want to go there, so they stay away. So when we were looking through this, you know, that's something that has not been brought up. It's like, how do you hide an LSD house? Well, you hide it in plain sight and you label it to where most soldiers or airmen are not going to be poking around. Good point.

Yeah. I'm so happy you guys got to hold a Brian Minute because his videos have been like the biggest bombshell for to break this thing open to at least know that there's stuff going on. Oh, that's true. I've gone on there. And the fact that there's underground tunnels. Like that thing you guys found in the episode in terms of a quote unquote access point. Like, whoa, that kind of blew my mind. Well, what's interesting to me is a lot of those areas have either been filled in with rocks or with seawater. So, you know, they could say it's for safety purposes. But I do have to wonder why. Why? Because there's plenty of buildings. There's plenty of underground bunkers. There's plenty of things.

things that, you know, they simply demolish, they build over. But with this, they filled it up with rocks. They filled it up with seawater. And some people have even said that they torched the inside of it prior to doing that. And the conspiracies continue, as they often do. All right, Jen, the mother load of conspiracies. Hashtag storm area 51. This came out of nowhere, just in time for you and I to cover this.

We had no idea this is going to happen when we actually did our investigation. So talk about like all in the timing. Well, we had absolutely no idea that the movement was going to take place. We didn't know any of this. So we were just interested at what was going on at Area 51. Clearly there's been a lot of conjecture. This Bob Lazar character, you know, people are split on him. They either absolutely believe him or they think he's a charlatan and a liar.

So Bob Lazar was somebody that I absolutely wanted to discount when I had first heard about him. But there are several things that there's no explanation for with regards to Bob and some of the things that he's claiming. So it's a really interesting episode and I'm really excited for it to air. Me too. And by the time this episode is released, it'll be within days of that. So I'm super excited for people to see what we're. we uncovered. But what I think is even more interesting than just Area 51, because yes, we did go to Area 51. I won't say anything more than that. But our investigation was kind of sparked by

something else, and that was these recent videos that were released through the Secret Pentagon UFO program, A-Tip. So what did you think of these videos when you first saw them? I know you talk about it in the episode quite a bit as well. But yeah, as a former military veteran, these videos coming forward from the Navy, nonetheless, your people are the ones that have, like, broken the whole new UFO conversation going on in today's world. You know, when I saw the videos, I don't know.

I really didn't know what to think. I saw them. I thought it was a little funny. I thought, you know, maybe this is, who knows what it is. Because the first time that I ever see anything, I just assume it's a fake, just because most of the things I deal with, you know, are frauds or fakes. And then I really look into, okay, where did this come from? All right, that's not a fake.

That's not something somebody made up on a computer. They're really inexplicable. And I wish I could say, oh, you know, this is absolutely possible the way this is flying. It's not. And honestly, I'm surprised that it hasn't gotten more mainstream. I'm surprised more people don't know about it. I talk to people about it. And they said, no, no, I've never heard of that.

I've never heard of the videos. I've never heard of the, you know, I don't know. We're in a society where people care about the Kardashians and they're not really aware of things that are going on. And I'm not saying, you know, you can't have a little bit of fun and care about the Kardashians once in a while. But if this is extraterrestrial in nature, that has some serious. potential consequences for humanity as a whole. Right. And some of the people we talked to in the episode, again, not giving away too much, but we're talking about people who had first-hand experience with what these videos might or might not be.

Intelligence people we spoke to. And they all sort of agree that, yeah, something's going on, and we've got to be careful because whatever these things are, whatever technology they represent, it's far beyond what our own military is capable of or even knows of. of or is privy to you. Absolutely. And I know that there's going to be people who watch the episode and say, oh, those people are just fame and fortune seeking. What a bunch of garbage.

I'll tell you this. There were two people involved with the 2004 incident off the USS Nimitz Battle Group, who have talked to me confidentially off the record. I cannot and will not use their names. They were not included in the show. These people backed up and gave me additional information as to what we show in the program. So if the people on the program are doing it for fame and fortune, what are these other two people doing it for? They have nothing to gain. They have everything to lose. They came to me as a

fellow Navy veteran in confidence and said, yes, this is what happened and explained to me their experiences. So I don't buy for one minute when people say, well, all these former sailors or aviators, they're just looking for fame and fortune because generally people who go into the military, that's, we're not, The military does not pay a lot and it's not a path to stardom. So that's not, you know, something that people generally join for. Wow. That's I didn't even know that. That's crazy to me.

It only solidifies for me that all these Navy people coming forward. This is going to change things. We already know that the Navy has a new reporting system for UFOs. And that's, that's incredible to think that in 2019, the stigma of reporting UFOs is changing. We know in the military and even in just commercial aviation that when you reported these things, boom, career over. You know, we're put on desk duty instead of flying the skies for the rest of your career,

but now they can do it. And now we're starting to see, wow, you know, not just 2004 or 2000, whatever, 16. These things have been going on for a while. And now these people can talk. about it. So it's fascinating. I've always I've always wondered why that was something that was really looked down upon because to me it's narcissistic to believe we are the most intelligent form of life out there. First of all, there's a septillion planets. We're the only one with any form of life. And who are we to say, oh, we are definitely the most advanced? We could be ants

compared to another civilization. We could be nothing more than sloths. So to say, you know, Somebody saw something that they don't understand what it is. Maybe it could be top secret military, but maybe it could be extraterrestrial. Oh, that person needs to be mocked. That person should be grounded. That person should lose their career. It's all based in narcissism. Absolutely.

I'm so glad you said that because we've struggled with that for so long of not only saying, look, the possibilities of alien life is just like, there has to be. There has to be. I think almost every mathematician, astronomer out there, agrees that there's some sort of alien life form out there. Whether it's visited this planet or not, or is intelligent or sentient, that's a whole different story. But it's fascinating that we now live in an age where you can talk about UFOs without getting laughed at. You know, it's still there, and it's probably always going to be there, that small hint of ridicule. but I see the tides changing within the overall UFO conversation, and I think it shows like yours,

and this show that Tom DeLong did, you know, the Blink 1-82 guy about UFOs, that's really showing people, look, we could talk about this normally at the dinner table, and you don't have to, like, be afraid to do it. So kudos to any Navy pilot who's come out with these Nimitz encounters or these, the gimbal video, the Tick-Tac, what have it. Like, we need more people like that to be willing to do that. Absolutely. And I think, you know, when I hear of sightings or I hear of witness accounts, regardless of what it is, I always ask myself, what does this person have to gain?

These naval aviators have nothing to gain and a lot to lose. Absolutely. So I think even the, you know, the high, the most skeptic of all skeptics. needs to look at this and say, all right, let me just at least hear these people out, because there's nothing driving this. Oh, let me come out, possibly lose my career, be ridiculed. No, this is, they're coming out because they saw something and they feel like other people should be aware of it.

And for a few of the people I talk to, they said, yes, I am, I have fear as to what I saw because I know that this is not within the capability of the military. and if this is extraterrestrial in nature, how do we know that these beings are that they're safe, that they don't want to do us harm? I mean, you don't know their motivation if it is in fact something extraterrestrial.

Exactly. You know, the question no longer is like if UFOs exist. It's who's in control of them? Why are they here? And like you said, everyone always says, oh, if aliens exist, They're so far advanced and enlightened and intelligent that they would be peaceful. We don't know that.

We don't. Why just because they're so vastly intelligent does, you know, time and evolution say that they're going to be a peaceful race? I never understood that. We are pretty technologically advanced and we are warmongers. Exactly to the point where we could destroy our own planets. Absolutely. Who knows? Who knows who's in control of these UFOs? why they're doing this.

And, uh, God, it's so fascinating. But a lot of people, Jen, think that it's aliens. And they're going to see them aliens on September 20th when they storm the gates of Oh, no. If they storm the gates, they're going to be seeing some, uh, tear gas and fun stuff like that. I mean, I do think that, you know, the guy that we talked about who stormed the gates and he had a cylindrical object in his hand, he was killed, unfortunately. Um, yeah.

You play stupid games. You win stupid prizes. I feel bad for his family. I don't know what his motivation was, but it's tragic. You cannot do that. You cannot storm a base. I would hope and I would think that the military is planning appropriately for this. And I don't think that they're going to be there, you know, and machine guns are going to be their first go-to.

I don't think, you know, they're just going to blow people away. But I do think that they're going to be prepared with tear gas, rubber bullets, things that make crowds very angry and very uncomfortable. And of course, yes, they'll have less lethal methods, but you also have to have lethal methods. So I would encourage anyone who's saying, let me storm, you do not storm a military base. Even in large numbers, you do not do that. You can't outrun bullets. Don't do that. Absolutely. And again, like, I think you and I can both agree, no matter what we personally think is going on at Area 51, that that base exists for our security. Whatever's being developed there is for our safety when it comes down to it.

And I've never been like a pro, you know, military person, but you can bet your ass. I'm thankful that we have those people doing that for us. Absolutely. People, please don't storm the gates very 51. And if you're going to go out there, go to the Alien Research Center, go to the little alien, go have a good time, you know, maybe have a couple beers, listen to some music. I think that's what they're planning to do. But do not storm the gates because you and I both know, they knew you and I were coming.

God, how many miles before we even got to that gate? I can't even imagine. So I won't say anymore. And I think it's important if people want to go, they have the camaraderie of other believers. they can have a good time. But keep it a good time, people. Keep it good. Keep it good.

Right. Well, in terms of what's to come on Mysteries Decoded, Jen, can you give us a little tease of what's going to be happening after Area 51? Yeah, we have some great episodes to wrap up this season. We actually look at Bigfoot, which I went into it thinking complete nonsense. But we've talked to a scientist in the field,

field who, you know, he brought up some really great points, showed me some really intriguing things. We look at vampires in New Orleans and whether the consumption of blood can, in fact, lengthen one's life. And we look at the Bermuda Triangle, which was really, really interesting to me because, of course, numerous planes and ships, military planes and ships have gone missing in that area. and so that's an episode where we hit the science pretty hard. I'm really looking forward to that one. I've done a little bit in the past on the Bermuda Triangle,

so I can't wait to see what you guys came up with that one. We have Salem Witches, too. Oh, my gosh, yeah, Salem Witches. Which we shot at second. It's been so long I had forgot about it. Yes, we had Salem Witches as well, which was really intriguing, because, of course, so many people were put to death.

for supposedly practicing witchcraft. So we, we delve into it and, you know, look at were they witches? Were they practicing witchcraft? What made the town put all these people to death? What happened? What were the socioeconomic variables included in that scenario? It's a very interesting episode. Oh, in the gender politics of the time, that was something that I really had not thought of going into it, but there was such a difference between men and women. Children were to be seen and not heard. So, So, you know, gender dynamics, power, there were so many things that went into that episode. It should be a good one.

That's fascinating. I got to ask you, Jen, with Mysteries Decoded, like, this is a huge departure from kind of what you're used to or what I'm sure your family or friends or colleagues know about you. So how have your friends, your colleagues in the entertainment industry and the military, how have they reacted to Mysteries Decoded? The veteran community has been extremely, extremely supportive. We tend to support our brothers and sisters when, you know, they branch off into different endeavors. So I've been very indebted to them. I would say the private investigation community at first, when it was first pitched to them,

you know, their concern was don't make us look like a bunch of schleps, which I get. I do not think that I've done that. But of course, anytime it's reality TV or docudrama, there's always. the, you know, there's always the fear that the profession is going to be belittled. So I think we've avoided doing that. Many of my other investigators said that they will never work on anything paranormal, which I absolutely appreciate and understand where they're coming from. The reception's been really good. You always have, you know, your one to five percent trolls. But for the most part, just people overall have been super supportive. And the way that I see trolls is,

you know, if you're that unhappy that you feel the need to lash out at people online anonymously, it doesn't make me angry. It just makes me sad and it makes me sad for that person. So, um, trolls don't get to me maybe the same way that they would get to somebody else. I, I kind of just take it with a grain of salt and, and move on. And I think that some people, some of the trolls have experienced, they, they're so quick to down anything and say, no, none of these things exist. And I don't feel. like that's being intellectually, intellectually curious if you automatically say none of these things exist and this is all nonsense. Amen to that. There's far too much important work to be done to even

like give these people the time of day. So I had to hear you say that. Well, on the other side, not trolls, I have listeners in my show who had a couple of questions for you. Do you have time? I would love to. Awesome. So Tim asks, what's the weirdest and or scariest thing you've seen or heard while investigating a case? There was a case. I will dance around it because confidentiality is very important to me and my clients. There was a case of a girl that I had helped with who had been, she had disappeared.

and we thought that shame on me, I thought that she was dead. I thought that her mother sold her off for a drug debt. This girl was very active on social media. After this, it was completely cut off. She was hanging around some gangbangers, MS-13 members. All of it was very, very bad. She was 16 years old, and I thought this girl has to be dead.

So we worked on it. It was several investigators worked. on it and she ended up popping up in another country. She had been sex trafficked. But reading the after-action reports of some of the things she had experienced, how they were able to move her out of the country, and the type of people we were dealing with really made my blood run cold. They're very dangerous, ruthless people who dehumanize anyone and everyone. You are simply a number to them. You are not a life, and they will snuff you out without a second thought. Wow. Yeah, that's tough. I mean, again, like, we deal with some weird and dark stuff in the UFO field or the paranormal

community, but when it comes down to it, I think the scariest thing is what humans can do to other humans always. Oh, absolutely. Wow. Yeah, that, that's tough. I'm speechless, to be honest. Well, and later she was, I've continued to follow her, and later, she was posting, some of the same things online, getting into old habits again. And it broke my heart because I thought, you know, I'm not a victim blamer. I don't think it's right to blame people. But I just had hoped that she would go in a different direction after the trauma she experienced. And it just, it, it hurt me and it scared me to see her going down that same path, uh, being around unsavory people again, because there's no, you know, there's no happy ending to that story. Yeah. And, you know,

oftentimes these things are like vicious cycles, you know, when, when you've been surmised as just a number, it's like, how do you find your self-preservation again? So that's sad. I hate hearing that. We can only hope that she finds some sort of, you know, closure or self-worth at the end of the day. Absolutely. And I will put in a little PSA parents, you know, definitely raise your girls to be aware of what's going on.

and to know their own worth, but raise your boys to treat women with respect and realize that no means no. And anything yes than an emphatic yes is absolutely no, because there was a lot of things playing into that case where, you know, I just thought, as a mother, I thought if these, if all of these people just would have been raised better with more respect for other humans, we wouldn't be in this position. And there was some serious parental failures on all sides that contributed to this girl being sex trafficked out of the country. Amen. I couldn't say it any better, Jen. I guess getting a little more light. Robert asks, are you still skeptical or have any investigations changed your mind with mysteries decoded? Robert, I will always be a skeptic because that is my job. But were there things that happened that? I can't explain. Absolutely. And I would love to explain them away. I would love to explain away anything paranormal with science. I love science. I love logic. I love reasoning. You know,

my life on camera as an actress is where I kind of explore just the artsy side of things. But as a person, I'm very grounded in reality. So yes, some things have happened. And I wouldn't say I'm a believer per se, but I would say that there are things that we don't understand yet. And my co-host in Salem had said something. She said everything known to man was at once paranormal. And, you know, that's a really interesting point. I'm sure if somebody saw a car driving down a road, you know, in 1800, they would think that that's paranormal. It's just something that hasn't happened yet due to technology. So I think that there's something to be said about that point that she made. And I just, I think we don't know enough. We don't know enough yet about how the world works, how the universe

works, how anything works to completely discount anything. Yeah, that's a really good way of looking at it, you know, drop an iPhone back in the, you know, prehistoric times and see what they do with that. They would think that's pure sorcery. Absolutely. You know, it's, it's fascinating. It's fascinating to think that way. I agree. I think the paranormal is just science we haven't discovered yet at most times. We have, okay, Chris has sort of a relating question. What motivates you to keep investigating? Oh, my gosh. Well, outside of the show, because the show is great because I get to investigate things that I would never be paid for on the outside, no one's going to find out what's going on the Bermuda Triangle. I'll pay for you to go down to Miami.

It's not a thing. So the show was a unique departure from what I do in my everyday business. But what keeps me investigating is wanting to help people. I get so much, it's such a good feeling to be able to help someone. I had worked with a woman who was looking for her biological father who did not know she existed. She was 60, inner 60. She's a real estate agent in Northern California. And she said, you know, I've brought.

this to several investigators. They've never been able to find my father. All I have is his name, and I think he's out of the country. I worked with her, and within three days, I had located him. He was in Germany. They recently have met each other for the first time, and he's in his 80s. So am I the only investigator who could have found him? Probably not, but she had gone to other people. And knowing that I could bring that closure to her prior to him passing away, it's such a good feeling and I love being able to help people and in some cases make their dreams come true because I do work on birth parents who have placed their children for adoption. You know, sometimes people don't want to meet but most of the time they do want to meet and a good number of those visits,

they enjoy themselves very much. You know, I'm looking into a case right now of a man who disappeared in 2013 and it's very perplexing. But if I'm able to help his parents in any way at all, that's what I want to do. So that's really what keeps me motivated is just being able to bring closure to these families who so desperately need it. I love that. Yeah, using your skills to help people. If everyone in the world did that, it'd be a much better place. Awesome. Well, Steve and Jessica both have kind of a similar question here. In your military experience, did you ever see or experience anything out of the ordinary that was kind of, you know, like swept under the rug or maybe at the time it was not a big deal, but kind of looking back on it now, you think maybe it was a little

strange or unexplainable? Well, I'll say this. I have always been very good at reading people's body language. So something that may have flown under the radar with maybe another sailor, it did not with me. I grew up in a very tumultuous household, and so I was always trying to read my father and see what his mood was for that day to see if I should stay away, how I should act. So I was very much a chameleon from early on, even as a toddler. So there were definitely things at my first command that I saw, that I witnessed, that I heard. I was stationed on a base. It's an island base. And I don't really want to get into what they do there. but I had made friends with some of the civilians on the island who they all had security

clearances. And so they would invite me to dinner parties, you know, and I was 19, 20 years old sitting at a dinner party with these, you know, 40, 50, 60 something year old men and women who'd who'd been working in a government capacity for decades with security clearances. And yes, things were said that I knew I probably was not supposed to hear. And it's one of those things you take it with a grain of salt. I don't know if those things are still classified. So I won't divulge them just out of respect. But there were definitely things when we shot Area 51 that I knew about that I can't and will not say on camera just out of national security reasons. So yes, There are definitely things, it's not even looking back.

It was at the time I realized I'm probably not supposed to know that, but I do know it anyway. And I worked in logistics. So there were things that, you know, nothing came onto the ship or nothing came to my command that I didn't order or that I didn't know about. So, yeah, for sure. Now, how all that fits into the grand scheme of things, I can't tell you that. But yeah, there's lots of things out there that fly under the radar that you don't think twice about unless given the context. I can't wait for the next time you and I meet up. I'm going to have to get a couple drinks in you to get those stories out of you.

Good luck with that, Ryan. Yeah. Our last listener question here comes from Earl. And this is a good one. What is scarier or more impactful to you that ghosts or cryptids or aliens? may be real after doing your investigations? Well, I would say if all of, let's say all of them are real, right? Let's say ghosts, cryptids, and aliens are all real.

Aliens, like I said, we don't know what drives them, what motivates them. They could look at what we're doing and say, you are completely trashing your planet, you are killing each other, you're doing all these things, you deserve to be annihilated. You know, we don't know the thought process. behind what other civilizations could think about what's happening on earth. So to me, that is probably the most terrifying because we just don't know that. Now, ghosts, they can surely scare the shit out of somebody or, you know, follow you around, whatever.

You don't hear a lot of stories about ghosts wiping civilizations off the map. With cryptids, it's certainly interesting. You know, it's intriguing. but if Bigfoot is real, he's not tearing people apart limb from limb as he comes across them in British Columbia. So I think if cryptids were real, that would be an interesting, intriguing thing. But extraterrestrials, yes, it is very worrisome to me just because if we don't even remotely understand the technology behind some of these videos, that means that they are years. and years and years ahead of us. It's true.

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And his experience with cultures and belief systems, it rings so true with what you're saying that, you know, ghosts can't take over the world. Cryptids are not going to wipe our planet out. I think that's why people are so hesitant to accept that aliens could be really. because we potentially don't know what they're capable of. So I agree with you 100%, you know, while I tend to err on the side of believing in aliens, that big part of me inside almost doesn't want to because of that fear of the unknown of what they could do.

Like, bring on the ghosts, bring on the bigfoits. But at the end of the day, while I may look at UFOs, you know, all the time, there's that small part of me that just kind of hopes that we can prove that they aren't aliens. for that very reason. I mean, from a national security perspective and from a military perspective, I want nothing more than to say, these are experimental military craft. We have this technology because if something were to happen, God forbid, like World War III,

I would want to have the best technology capable of ending a war quickly. So I want nothing more than for this to be homegrown. I don't know. I mean, when one of the pilots was talking about, he basically saw a docking station in the ocean, that's, yeah, that is inexplicable. That's terrifying. That's, you know, what is this? This is a man with thousands of hours, thousands of flying hours. He's not prone to exaggeration.

He's seen lots of things. So that gives me pause. Yeah. Well, sort of closing things out here, Jen. And mysteries decoded. We've got half the season is aired. We've got some more stuff to investigate. But what are some topics that you'd like to cover if given the opportunity to get back out there?

You know, I don't know. It's just supposed to be a one-off. It's not supposed to be, you know, an every year sort of show. It's supposed to be a summer filler. But if we were given the opportunity to look at anything else, there's something that's really interesting to me that I recently came across that I, I immediately dismissed as bullshit, but the more I look into it, I said, well, maybe I should look into this. And it's whether or not the Titanic actually sunk. Hear me out. Whoa. Okay. There's a thought process that there's a theory that it was actually the Titanic's

sister ship and that it was an insurance scheme. So there's compelling evidence one way that no, it was the Titanic, but there's other things that you look at. There's the, the list of the ship, there was a two-degree lisp to it. There was a certain number of portholes on the sister ship and a certain number of port holes on the Titanic. So there's several things that made me think, well, maybe I should look into this a little closer because the captain had been in two maritime accidents previously for White Star, and he was still made the captain of the Titanic.

There were so, which to me makes no sense from a business perspective. There were also some very hoity-to-to-y high-ranking people in society who canceled their tickets right before the Titanic took its voyage. So there is, there are things that make me want to look into it whether or not it's legitimate. I don't know. But if somebody wants to fund my voyage to go see if that's true, I would absolutely love that. Oh, wow. I'm with, can I go? It'll be great. And, you know, we didn't do it this season because we, you know, we didn't do anything internationally with the exception of Bigfoot. And that's just up in British Columbia. So it is really intriguing. And whether or not it's true or not true, it's worth the look.

Sort of rounding out your military career here, Jen. You do a lot of work with military veterans. And again, like I said, I'm a big. opponent of this as well. Can you tell us a little about your work in this sector and what it means to you? Yeah. You know, when I left the military, it was kind of unexpected. I wasn't planning on leaving, and I struggled a lot with the transition. If you can think of all the careers, you know, everybody finds kind of where they're comfortable. And I was so comfortable in the Navy. I loved it. I wanted to make it a career. So when I got out, the transition was so difficult. And I was ill on top of that. So it was really hard. And once I got my bearings, I said, you know, I want to help my brothers and sisters however I can. And that wasn't just some selfless act. That active altruism was helpful to me as

well because it made me feel like I was giving back and it filled that hole that had been there since I had left the service. So I volunteer with veterans and media and entertainment and I work as a mentor to help veterans who are coming into the film and television arena. I volunteer with pinups for vets. We dress up as World War II era pinup girls and we visit veterans in hospitals and nursing homes. We dress very modestly but very colorful and it's just wonderful to go into these rooms of veterans who haven't had a visitor, sit down with them, share stories of service and just feel that camaraderie again. So I'm very active in the veteran community and I'm very blessed that they've been so welcoming to invite me and have me spend time. That's fantastic. And I mean, I've seen the outpour of support for

you on social networks from the military community. And I mean, no matter anyone's thoughts on, you know, politics or war or the military, it's, it is a community of people who would literally give their lives for one another. And to know that there are ways to still give back and show that appreciation. I wish more civilians would do that. So is there anywhere we can go to kind of look that stuff up and where people could turn to? Yes. So I have a couple websites and then I have an actual tangible way that listeners can help vets because a lot of people say thank you for your service, which is well-meaning. But I always tell people, do you want a tangible way? And when I tell them, they're like, absolutely tell me how I can do this. So the first couple websites,

It's www. pinups for vets.com. We have a calendar that we sell to fund our 50 state hospital tour, and the calendar has female and male veterans in it. This year, it's mainly female. We've done ones with males as well. But it's a wonderful calendar, very modest, very beautiful. And that helps fund our mission of getting to visit every state.

I would also say if you are someone in a position where you say I'd like to help a veteran. The easiest way you can do this is by putting on your LinkedIn profile that you're willing to mentor a veteran who's coming into your field because often we get out of the military, we don't know how to make that transition. Let's say you work in hotel management and somebody's going to school for hospitality. If they want to follow in your footsteps, oftentimes they're very hesitant to reach out. So put it in your bio, put a couple asterisk by it. Oftentimes, That's all it takes. Veterans, most of us do not need a hand out, but a hand up is very, very helpful in getting

reintegrated to civilian life. So also, if you'd like to visit my website, Jennifer Marshall.com, I do some work in Uganda. I currently sponsor two students to go to school, one of whom is he was abandoned by his parents, and so he's an orphan, and the girl that I sponsor is HIV positive. they would not be able to go to school without sponsorship. And it really takes a community. I have people who donate money. And because of that, I've been able to sponsor him for the last six years and her for the last three.

So all of that money donated, if you want to send me a message on my website, all of that money donated goes to their education and making just life better for the kids living in the village in Uganda where I volunteer. That's amazing, Jen. I mean, you're like the shining example of like what one can do with this journey we call life. Like you're involved with so many different things. It's so inspiring. I just, I want to tell people, Ryan, because I know people get overwhelmed, you don't have to change the world, but you can change the world for one person. Yeah. Oh, that's such a good way to look at it. Yep. That makes all the difference to that one person. And wow, yeah. Well, Mysteries Decoded airs every Tuesday on the CW. You can stream the show for free at the CWC.

I can't wait to see where you're going next gen. And again, thank you so much for coming on today. And thank you so much for having me, Ryan. It's always wonderful when I get to work with you. And I know that we'll have the opportunity in the future. I can't wait. Oh, we ain't done. The Somewhere in the Sky's podcast is part of

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