Somewhere in the Skies - Erica Lukes: Dugway, Skinwalker Ranch, and UFOs over Utah

Episode Date: June 26, 2017

On episode 11 of SOMEWHERE IN THE SKIES, Ryan speaks with Erica Lukes, a UFO researcher out of Utah. They discuss the many mysterious happenings at Dugway Proving Ground, a U.S. Army facility known for testing biological and chemical weapons. But recently, many exotic aircraft and UFO activity have been reported in and around the base. Erica also speaks to us about the strange plethora of activity surrounding the Skinwalker Ranch. The conversation then moves to strictly UFOs with Erica's research into a 2014 mass UFO sighting over Salt Lake City, the orange orb phenomenon, and the stunning UFO incident of American Airlines Flight 434. Guest Bio: Erica Lukes is the head of Unexplained Utah, an organization which is focused upon scientifically researching Unidentified Aerial Phenomena. She is currently developing research protocols that can be utilized by other organizations and to streamline the research process. She now serves as the Communications Director for the International Association of UAP Researchers. She has collected decades’ worth of case reports from Skinwalker Ranch regarding mass sightings of UFOs, mysterious mutilations of animals, and alien abductions. Erica was the team-leader on a research program called “Project Orange.” This project is specifically dedicated to studying sightings and clusters of orange/red orbs. Erica was also the lead investigator on the American Airlines 434 case over Nephi, Utah. Her weekly radio show, UFO Classified, and all her work can be found at: www.ufoclassified.com ​Guest & Topic Suggestions: [e-mail] Twitter: @SomewhereSkies Facebook Group: Click Here Order Ryan's Book by Clicking Here   Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/somewhere-in-the-skies. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey guys, John Savoy here to tell you about a brand new podcast that delves into the unsolved mysteries of the world. We have a special season lined up which includes topics on UFOs, missing persons, unsolved murders, hauntings, paranormal encounters, ancient archaeological mysteries, and much more. Check us out at Unsolved Mysteries of the World on iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher, SoundCloud, or your favorite podcast directory. If you like high strangeness, history, mayhem, and murder? Have a lesson. This is somewhere in the skies with Ryan Sprague.

Dogway Proving Ground was a location where many highly classified chemical and biological tests were carried out. And in 1968, one of these went wrong when VX nerve agent was inadvertently released. Well, it's an interesting thing what the Army did. On the one hand, they denied for years and years that they had anything to do with this. But we know that quietly they were.

compensating the ranchers. Obviously, they knew that they were responsible for the debts of those sheep. Just so happens during the same time, there was massive UFO sightings. Some witnesses have actually filmed these UFOs and these lights in the sky. Was it a diversionary tactic by the military to focus on these UFOs and these lights in the sky? Or it could be the other way around. Maybe they're using the sheep incident to take the focus off the UFOs. If they're testing this type of weaponry, What do we not know about the craft and the sightings being seen around the area? The Dougway sheep incident did serve a purpose. It frightened people.

Kept them away. It kept them from asking questions because they saw what would happen. The incident you just heard about is only one of a handful of incidents reported at Dougway Proving Ground. This highly top-secret facility not only tests biochemical nerve agents and weapons, but top-secret aircraft as well. It also boasts the highest restricted airspace in the United States, stretching to the Earth's atmosphere. So it's safe to say that whatever is going on at Dougway is definitely classified. But Utah's secrets don't end there. It also boasts another highly secretive and strange place known as the Skinwalker Ranch,

where endless amounts of bizarre creatures, apparitions, UFOs, and everything in between have been reported. Today, we talk about these locations and the vastest, UFO activity happening over the skies and on the ground with Utah UFO researcher Erica Luke's. Erica is the head of Unexplained Utah, an organization which is focused upon scientifically researching unidentified aerial phenomena. She now serves as the communications director for the International Association of UAP researchers.

She's collected over a decade's worth of case reports from Skinwalker Ranch regarding mass sightings of UFO. mysterious mutilations of animals, and even alien abductions. Erica was the team leader on a research program called Project Orange. This project is specifically dedicated to studying sightings and clusters of orange and red orbs. Erica was also the lead investigator on the American Airlines 434 case over Utah, which we'll be talking about today.

So without further ado, let's hear from Erica Luke's. Erica, thank you so much for joining me today. I'm absolutely honored to be here. I'm excited that you reached out to me. Thank you. Yeah, we finally got to meet in Arizona this past February. I got to see a little portion of your talk. I was running around, obviously, with my head cut off like a chicken.

But it was so cool seeing the information you were bringing forward. And how much you're involved in different groups, in different investigations. So we're really going to hit on some of those today for sure. I'm excited. It was fun to meet you, I have to say. That was one of the highlights of my trip there. Oh, that's so nice. Yeah, you and Ted, I'm glad we got our selfie together.

Oh, that selfie was pretty good. And I've got some other pictures of you, too, that are pretty awesome. Oh, no. That's use those for blackmail someday, I'm sure. Well, I might have to. Let's start with the origin story, Erica. I know we have some listeners who may have never heard of your work for the mere fact that UFOs have not been their life like you and I. So how did you get involved with the entire UFO topic?

You know, it was interesting. I've always had a curiosity. You know, I've always read books. And I remember picking up my first book when I was, oh my gosh, I think six years old. I've had a lifetime full of interesting paranormal experiences. and so I've been kind of raised with an open mind, but not so open that we're believing everything that comes along. But in 2013, I was sitting on the porch with some of my friends, and we observed this amber, orange sphere that was hovering just above the mountain line over the Salt Lake Valley. And it was interesting because it didn't have the type of light that you would see.

that artificial light on a plane. And we watched it and watched it and got out the binoculars. And then there was another object that appeared to kind of come out of the larger object and then move around in a circle around the larger object. And it was, you know, we were all just sitting there like, okay, this is, this is quite interesting. And I, you know, for every night, for probably two, three months, I got my video camera out and I was out there recording things and I actually got some really interesting video footage.

And I kept thinking to myself, okay, we're 80 miles away from one of the world's most frightening places, Dugway Proving Ground. And we also, you know, this is over the biggest, the most densely populated city in Utah, what is this? So I just started to reach out to different people. I scoured YouTube. I made phone calls. Actually, just thought for fun, I'd call Hill Air Force Base to see where they'd go and

Dougway. Just because I like to do those sorts of things. You know, keep people on their toes, put me on their radar, whatever. But I quickly learned that there were these types of amber, orange orb sightings that were taking place not only in Utah, but all over the country, all over the world. And so I filed a report with Peter Davenport and spoke with him and he was wonderful. And I figured out that there were not a lot of places or resources in Utah for me to turn to. And at that point in time, the Mufon chapter was defunct because Elaine Douglas had passed away,

who was the former state director and a very spicy woman. I wish I could have had the opportunity to meet her. But I became involved with Mufon as a field investigator. and then eventually a state director. And it was a really great learning experience for me. And then in that process, I learned more about Utah, the hotspots, Skinwalker Ranch, different things. And I also really reached out to different investigators and researchers, not just in Mufon, but people that were really making a difference worldwide.

I know you've spoken to investigators in Latin America. I can only assume other countries as well. And a lot of people don't realize, like there are investigators out there, you know, not a part of Mufon, you know, myself being one of them. I've always wanted to join. I've just never had the courage to do so. Well, you know, there are so many wonderful people in and out of Mufon. And I think that they, you know, they have a personal experience and something inside you when you have an experience like that. I mean, it's like this light goes on and you just have to know.

And the more I learn on a daily basis, the more I just sit there, I think, with my mouth hanging open because it is so the implications of all of this, the gravity of it and the fact that whatever these objects, beings are interacting with people in a way that perhaps we don't, we can't even comprehend. I mean, it's alarming and it's something that should be taken. incredibly seriously. I agree. And, you know, when we strip it down to the bare bones, people are seeing things they can't explain, and it's having psychological, physiological effects immediately, you know, not to mention the implications after. And we're not even talking, you know,

non-human intelligence. That's even going a bit too far in many of these cases. We're just saying people are seeing things in the skies, or possibly under the water, that they cannot conventionally explain, and that has a lasting impact on the human being, you know, experiencing that. Absolutely. And I think, too, you know, the more I really study different hotspots, you know, like Skinwalker Ranch. I mean, there's some interesting questions or the whole you went to basing questions that come up. I mean, there are, you know, how does long-term exposure to this phenomenon affect a person's psyche? and then what are the health effects on people that are exposed to this? I think that those are very important questions to ask. And in my ideal world, I would have a team of health professionals and scientists and biologists and just different people that could add their input and kind of take it away so much from this fringy topic.

but people who are willing to look and put the pieces of the puzzle together. So we have a better foundational understanding of this. The sighting you had, Erica, the orange orbs. I would love to talk about this. I know you've worked in the past, in the present, on this Project Orange. Could you tell us about this who's involved and what you've sort of come to discover about this strange phenomenon that seems to be very prevalent right now? Oh, it is.

And it always has been. And so when I was state director, I mean, I spent so much time scouring the CMS and looking at other reports and finding a lot of commonalities with what we were seeing, what I had seen in Utah. And to me, I was a little bit shocked that other state directors or field investigators were dismissing some cases that were very credible cases. And I read a book by Terry Ray that really changed me. And I met him at a Mufon symposium. And he had taken data from the CMS and compiled different sightings reports of these orange spheres. And I reached out to him. And then I found Robert Spearing, who's a field investigator, star team investigator,

and also believes that we're missing the boat when it comes to looking. at the data and understanding that this is prevalent and we need to take it seriously. So we formed a core team and Bob Spearing came in and just did amazing statistical analysis about all of this. And he was able to, through his work, you know, determine, yes, we've got hotspots and we tried to raise awareness within Mufon, which he's still doing. And I'm so proud to know him. he's a great guy. But still, unfortunately, there is this kind of sentiment to dismiss what's taking place. And I don't know whether that's ego talking, you know, where we've got to go in and debunk everything, even though we don't know all the facts. I don't know what it is. But I think that

people need to understand and think outside the box. And I think that I encourage investigators to look at the reports, figure out where they're happening, because they're happening in the same places repeatedly for decades and get out there and do some field study. Right. And like that, that consistency is what really gets my attention. You know, if this is happening and it's repeated, you have to wonder, is this some sort of natural phenomena, super natural phenomena? I know Erling Strand has worked a lot on this, not here in the United States.

And you've looked into his work as well, am I correct? Oh, absolutely. I mean, he was somebody I found pretty early on, and I reached out to him and have had him on my show because his work to me is, I think, the most important work in the world. And when you've got 30 years of data, and he's been able to determine that there are four different types of light phenomena that appear to behave intelligently. I mean, that's, and he's a scientist, you know, he's had people from different colleges. universities from all over the world come there. And not only has he been able to, he and his team, really focus on this, but he's also really instilled a passion in the college students there, which he takes out for science camp every year. And so he's teaching this younger generation to use the scientific method and the tools that we have available to study all of this. And that's really powerful. Oh, my gosh. That's amazing. I wish we had something like that. here in the United States for sure. Well, in terms of these lights, I want to stick on that for a

moment, Erica, there was a mass sighting in your area of Salt Lake in 2014. Could you tell us a little bit about this case? This is very interesting. Yeah, this case, and I, oh my gosh, this case was so exciting and I still, you know, to me, I just have to say that this single case has turned into really kind of building upon that with other cases that are very similar in the area. It's been fun. But I was contacted by Fox News here and they said, you know, sent me a message and just say, hey, you know, we've got a flood of reports coming in and people are calling us, posting pictures on our social media sites. There are these white spheres, you know, that are hovering over the Salt Lake Valley. And it was a...

interesting because this is a broad daylight sighting and there were witnesses were describing three to seven objects that were in one place for upwards of an hour and then some of them would move in a direction and the

other one would go the other way and we had some witnesses that also noted that there were military there was a military presence there were military craft in the area some witnesses felt that that the military was kind of monitoring what these objects were.

And it was intriguing, you know, I mean, you've got, you've got things that are seen by one witness account over the NSA, which is the most restricted airspace in the world. You have these objects that were seen in the flight corridor for the Salt Lake International Airport and all of these things. And then the next day over in Colorado, the same objects appeared. And there was a reporter by the name of Matt Renu who did a great story. You can find that on YouTube about that. And he interviewed a policeman, interviewed different people, reached out to NORAD to try to get, you know, any sort of response from them.

We know how that always works out. But I, at that point in time, because you've got a daylight sighting in these specific locations where things shouldn't be seen unless they're airplanes. You know, I did a FOIA request. So I called Robert Powell, kind of ran it through with him, and then I called Bill Puckett from UFOs Northwest. And I said, hey, we got to move on this. And we did. And not once but twice, we got unreadable text format on our FOIA request.

And so we weren't really able to analyze the radar data. And that was a curious thing. but, you know, we had a lot of people reaching out. There's some videos people shot that you can find on YouTube in Utah. And it's fascinating because you see these white spheres during the day. So are these the same things that we're seeing at night? I don't know. But they're not weather balloons.

They're not Google loon balloons, which people, you know, that was the first thing that people jumped on. Oh, they're a Google loan balloon. Well, no. No, they're not. You know? Yeah, no. I mean, come on now. A Google balloon balloon doesn't stay in one location for upwards of an hour.

They're typically up about 80,000 feet. You can't see them with the naked eye. And they're not launching them. They weren't launching them in the western United States at the time of the sighting. And then you've got the fact that there's no transponder data. So no, they're not. Right. Well, and these are ways in which, you know, skeptics, but even further,

debunkers like to look at these things. They find some sort of sound bite or, you know, conventional prosaic explanation and they just stick with that no matter what. But then you have someone like you really investigated and know that that's not what this is. Like it's just logically that is not what this is. And I think that's where the gap really is between the investigator and the just hardcore debunkers. Well, and I think the thing that was curious, to me is that a lot of the hardcore debunkers are actually working in the field as investigators. You know, and I don't know whether it's, you know, I don't know. It was fascinating to me that you could have all of this evidence, but yet still classify it as a Google Loon balloon. I mean, come on.

You know, that's the easy explanation. You know, that's convenient because you don't have to do any more work on it, but, you know, give me a break. We've got to look at this. This is, Again, this isn't an isolated incidence with this type of thing. And for me, what struck me is this is a matter of not only, you know, aviation safety, but also you're close to, again, Dougway Proving Ground, one of the most interesting places on the planet, which could, if anything happened there, you know, this is a serious thing for the population of Salt Lake City in the surrounding areas. Right. Well, let's talk a little about that. You know, we've all heard of Skinwalker, I think, at this point, but I don't think people necessarily know the history that this place has been through with billionaires being involved and all the different things being cited there. I know you've personally been there. You've investigated. You have tons of case reports. Would you mind Erica telling us a little about Skinwalker and what you've found? going on there? Oh boy. You know, I again, last week I had a report from someone who's had a sighting in the area and the Uwintah Basin is a very curious place. I mean, it's very, there are a lot of cattle ranchers in the area. It's very, there are a lot of mines and oil fields. And then you have the fact that you've had a lot of history with some of the miners coming in there and then the

Native Americans. And it's been the history of the place, even if you didn't take into account all of the strange goings-ons. I mean, it's a fascinating place. But back in, back in, you know, 20 years ago, Robert Bigelow purchased a ranch known as Skinwalker Ranch now. And he purchased it because he had heard of all of the goings-ons there. And he was very interested. I'm sure he still is in, you know, the cattle mutilations, the UFO sightings, the paranormal events that were occurring on the ranch. But these events were not only occurring on Skinwalker Ranch, they were occurring in the Uinta Basin as a whole. And then you've got the work of Junior Hicks, who was a science teacher in the area, and he had been collecting

reports from the 60s onward. And so you've got his body of work. He's got 700 reports, and they are incredible. And then, you know, you bring in Dr. Frank Salisbury's work, who wrote the Utah UFO display. And you've got a very intriguing area that has been well documented, unlike many other hotspots. And it's frightening. It is people who are cattle ranchers in the area have lost a considerable amount of money because of the cattle mutilations that are still taking place. No, in terms of that cattle, the livestock issue, we also have Dougway, which in, what was it, 1968, where thousands and thousands of sheep were killed because of a leak that happened at

Dugway, a chemical leak. Tell us a little about Dugway and this incident, if you wouldn't mind. Yeah, the sheep incident, I mean, that's a winner, but they had been flying and they were dropping some of this nerve agent and that they apparently went off course and flew over livestock. And it affected not only the livestock killing, you know, thousands of sheep, but it also affected the people that were in the area. And for a long, long time, the government didn't take any responsibility for it. but they finally had to fess up. But this is just one of the things that has taken place here. You know, a couple years ago, we had live anthrax that was shipped via FedEx.

You know, I mean, yeah, there's some really pretty big breaches that take place there. And I'm sure it's hard to, you know, I mean, it would be hard to run a facility like that. They are doing laser testing. I have a friend Dave Rosenfeld who was on the TV. show with me now and he's been just relentless for two decades about going out by Doug Way and kind of monitoring what's taking place there. And he's had some pretty incredible experiences with unidentified objects that appear to be monitoring the area as they do in many other locations where there is testing taking place. Yeah, I've personally interviewed Dave a few times about

Dougway and the things he's found there are just incredible. And that, and that's, TV show you're mentioning is UFOs the Lost Evidence, which we'll talk about later on for sure. I want to hear the inside scoop on that. But what Dave is doing there, and am I correct, this is one of the bases that has one of the highest restricted airspace is in the world. Absolutely, and praise the Lord for that. Yeah, yeah, I can only imagine. But you have to wonder, like, why so high. I mean, we're talking like up to the Earth's atmosphere.

They have restricted airspace for this place. So what are they testing? What are they flying? I'm sure we'll never truly know. But many people do believe this could be our area 52. Well, absolutely. And I believe it is. I mean, you just have, we have a large number of aerospace companies that have moved into Utah and are working out there testing things.

We know that they've tested biological and chemical weapons. and so who knows what goes on there. But it, to me, being a resident of Utah and being concerned about the safety of people in the area, it's an interesting place. And I think that we need to be aware of what goes on there and make sure everything is on the up and up and we're not shipping live anthrax. Absolutely. For your own security and health.

I mean, you look at something like when Bill Clinton had to come forward. and with the lawsuit with Area 51. People were dying because of what was going on there. And finally, the government took some accountability. But when you have these possible black budget projects going on, they're not answering to anyone and they're not taking responsibility. So as civilians, we really have to be careful on that. They could wipe us out in a heartbeat.

You know, they could. And I think it's just even politically having just, watched what takes place, you know, and the fact that people are so apathetic. And in my opinion, you have to take accountability and you have to get involved. You have to look at what's taking place in the government. You have to look at what's taking place in your community. And you have to not be lazy. You know, and the same with the UFO field. I mean, we need to look at that and take it seriously and step up to the plate if we're going to make a change. Well, in terms of UFO sightings in the air.

We've had debunkers say that pilots are no more credible with UFO sightings than people on the ground, which is utterly ridiculous. We have so many pilot witness reports about things going on in the sky. And one you've personally been a part of researched and investigated was the American Airlines 434 case. This is absolutely incredible, this case. Would you mind trying to run us through this very complex case and what you were able to obtain from an FOIA request? Oh my gosh. This case was truly the highlight of my time investigating, but I have a friend, his name is Pat Daniels, and he hosts the fringe radio show.

And he's also an avid ham radio operator. He does all sorts of things, scanning frequencies. and he is he contacted me because he had listened to something that was that really piqued his interest and was almost alarming to him he had been sitting at his desk doing some work a little after midnight on January 14th and he heard a couple transmissions from a pilot or the crew of the craft asking what this this object was that appeared to be keeping pace with the plane. And then you've, you know, I mean, it was a large orange square object. And he said, you know, he said, in all my years of just scanning frequencies, I have never heard this ever.

And knowing that he is a good human being who was kind of shaken by this, I decided that I was going to try to find out more. And so I grabbed my assistant state director, Jeff Cox, and we went to the ATC, the air traffic control website, and just scoured it to find any bits and pieces of this transmission. And lo and behold, we were able to find a brief snippet of a pilot talking or the crew talking, asking flight control what this object was. 34, go ahead. No, that's a good question.

I'm not sure. Is it off to your right side? American 434, that is Nephi, Nefi, Utah. And so what we did then, again, I was working with Bill Puckett. I brought him in. And we submitted a FOIA request for radar data for audio logs and for the tower logs and for audio. The FAA actually in about six to eight weeks sent back all the radar data, which was incredible. They sent back some of the audio.

And there was a portion of the audio that was redacted, which was curious. but after careful analysis of the radar data, we were able to determine that there was something absolutely incredible spanning almost a six-mile area over a remote part of just right outside of Nephi, Utah. So that coupled with the fact that you've got this snippet of audio really made a powerful case. You know, when you're looking for evidence, you can't really argue with this, especially because, you know, Bill Puckett is so methodical

and he sends the data to other researchers all over the world to get their feedback. And it was quite curious. He was able to rule out anomalous propagation. And it's you can go to UFOs Northwest and actually look at the great work that he did on the case. And after investigating Jeff Cox and I reaching out to the community, You know, we put an ad on the paper, talked to everybody there, did a lot of investigating and looking at old cases and things. I mean, this is an area where there have been some interesting cases historically as well. So what's going on there?

I don't know. Yeah. And, I mean, the object reported in general a square or rectangle shape. We don't hear this often. No, we don't. But there are reports like that out there. And so it's quite, it's just the whole case is fascinating. And again, you know, you've got an object that is, or objects, you know, six miles wide.

And they're, again, close to Dugway Proving Ground. So what is it? And what is it that would make somebody that is on the, a crew for an airline, would make them come, you know, over and ask the question. You know, the pilots don't typically do that. I know I've interviewed a lot of pilots off the record and they won't even talk about it, which is unfortunate. It is. And off the record is key there.

We have so many pilots who have been, you know, put on desk duty after reporting UFOs or we look at the famous Chicago O'Hare incident when nobody, and I know this from personal experience, nobody, even the, The Cinebun employees at that airport will not talk about what happened that day. I've tried. Oh, isn't that sad? Yeah. And, you know, you have to wonder, is this the airport overall? Is this somebody above them? Is this the airline, you know, where the event took place, you know, threatening these people with their jobs?

There is such a stigma and ridicule within the, you know, the aviation world, let alone the civilian world. It's frustrating because these are the most, you know, the people who can really disseminate what's going on in the skies, especially if it's a threat to their own flight. Absolutely. Absolutely. And that's the key thing there. I mean, you look at what NARCAP has done over the years and you look at the incredible people involved in NARCAP and the scrutiny they put some of these cases under. I mean, there's something there. You look back at the food fighters in World War II.

I mean, there are objects up there that keep pace, you know, keep pace with the plane, and then they also have electromagnetic effects. And this is incredibly serious. And I think that we need to encourage and hopefully change the sentiment and empower people to come forward and know that they're not going to lose their jobs. I think that's, it's going to be a big mistake. on the part of the FAA and airlines to continue to do this. Right.

Do you see that changing at all, Erica? Have you noticed like an uptick at all with pilot reports? No. No. That's very sad. It is. But it takes, again, that, you know, it takes a lot of work to get in there and change a system. Right.

So, and I know I just, I commend, you know, Ted Roe and Dr. Richard Haynes for trying to do so much. to change that. Absolutely. You know, even looking at ways of classifying aerial phenomena in terms of aviation, I know this is a lot of the work that Ted Roe is doing right now, which is amazing. It's so cool. I mean, it's just, oh, my gosh, you know, I have a, one of my friends is Barry Greenwood, and he's always sending me case reports. And I, you know, I just look at all of this, or his foo fighter inventory. that he worked on with the help of Keith Chester.

And it's like, oh, you are giving, seriously, there is so much evidence right here. And now we just need to get people, you know, encouraged. Like, I mean, I would encourage everybody out there to go to Barry Greenwood Archives and scan that and then pick a case or pick cases. And then go to work and find out as much as you can. go to the library, find documents there, and do their own research. We need that. We need to mobilize people. We need to help people to understand that this isn't just a social club, which is great,

because I love hanging with my UFO people and talking about things. It's important. We need that social aspect. But, I mean, this is serious. We need to change the way we're. We're operating, and we need to encourage people to get out there and do the hard work. And it is hard work. You know that.

Oh, yeah, absolutely. Like the digging, the, you know, the Internet is great, but it has a lot of faults. We know this. So going to the library, making FOIA requests. I did this for the Tehran incident and was able to dig up some stuff that John Greenwald brought forward. And that's the kind of work you have to do. Like, you have to actually sit down. write a letter to a congressman or to the FOIA and do that work.

You know, we can be lazy keyboardists and just Google something, but you have no idea where the sources are coming from with that information. Well, or better yet, we could just go on Facebook and then, you know, create our own little cult following and then, you know, I don't know, whatever we do there, but that's not, you're not going to get good information on Facebook. I hate to tell you this, but it's kind of the truth. Yeah, it is. It is definitely the Wild West on there.

That's for damn sure. Well, in terms of evidence, Erica, you were recently featured on a new show, which is awesome, by the way. This is one of the best UFO shows I've seen yet. Oh, sweet. Yeah, UFOs The Lost Evidence. How did you get involved with this? And is there anything in particular that you found most interesting about working with this new television show? You know, I got involved.

They actually contacted me, the producers, and I flew out to Austin to record. And I actually did. I mean, it was a lot of fun, but I mean, I shot seven episodes and in a day. And so I was literally in the chair for 11 hours with a half an hour break. Oh, my God. Yeah, it was, you know, it was, it was, it was, it was, very grueling. But I love it. I love doing that and being able to reach different people all over the world. It's important and we need to do that. I think that it is a good production.

I love it. I hope that they've got another season coming up. It was fun to get to kind of I flew in and Richard Dolan was there. So I got to talk with him and then John Greenwald was coming in and got to spend some time with him. And it's really a cool thing. And I love, I mean, every day I'm getting tons and tons of messages from people sharing their sightings or just saying, good job, and we're happy to have a new face in there. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, it's cool, like, to be on TV or whatever, but we both know, like, that's not, that's not our goal. Our goal is to spread, you know, A, the information properly. and also to get people interested in the topic. Like, we know for a fact that this topic isn't so popular when it comes to, you know, the everyday person. So to have it on TV all over the world with credible cases like I think this show is doing, I think it's exciting and I hope they have a season two. I do too.

And I think that it's, you know, for me, because I've, my background is vocal performance and I'm really comfortable in front of the camera or on stage. It's like how do I, we're on the radio. How do I utilize what I've been doing for 25 years to make the biggest impact? And to me, doing radio, reaching people all over the world, doing TV, getting new people involved. I mean, those are important things when done credibly and correctly. And so I really think that we can shift the sentiment and get newer, younger people involved, which is what it's going to take to make real change in the field. I think so. And I know we have a lot of younger listeners to this show.

So if you're out there, guys, please look at these UFO organizations. Look at New Fork. Look at Mufon. Watch UFOs The Lost Evidence. These are the things that us who are embedded in this world think is the most credible information and will actually really excite you to know that there is evidence out there. It's not just stories. It's not just testimony.

There is hard data and evidence about these topics. Well, there is, and I have to say, you know, when you're looking for good information, I mean, go to visit Paul Dean's website, UFOs, documenting the evidence. He's an Australian researcher who has done a tremendous service looking at classified documents from NORAD from the CIA. That's important. You know, get your feet wet there. It's a little technical, but it's important.

And then look at the work of NYCAP. Look at Fran Ridge and all that he's done. Look at Barry Greenwood, read his archives. I mean, I will say I'm the biggest supporter of Barry Greenwood on the planet because I know, you know, in the past few decades, what he has done to preserve history for all of us so we can build upon that. And that is, that's where we need to go. I think I would encourage people to not necessarily join organizations, but to do their own work and to look at these resources and then run with it. Yes, absolutely. Do your own work. Go rogue. Yeah, I like going

rogue. I'm having a good time. Yeah, I love it. Well, we both know that the UFO field has always been fractured and it seems that nobody ever seems to be on the same page. So in terms of that, Erica, what do you personally feel would move the field forward in a progressive way? Oh, Lordy. You know, I think that there are several things. I think kind of standardizing things would be helpful. I think organizations working together and sharing data. I think that's valuable. I mean, we as researchers, you know, we're not paid to do this. This is somebody coming in. The majority of us, we're not scientists.

I mean, we're doing this because we are passionate, but we need to have access to data. We need to work together and know that they're ethical boundaries, that people are working together and not hoarding information. I mean, I just, I'm kind of shocked at the lower level political games that take place. And, you know, for me, having been unfortunately caught up in some of that early on, I just, I don't have time for that. I don't want to deal with it. And I think it's really unproductive to behave like this.

And I think also, you know, I wanted to say that we should really be careful when we're getting on social media, not to fall into some groups where just because they've got UFO in the title, you know, it doesn't mean that they're necessarily getting good information. out and in some cases, you know, it's a group of skeptics that just like to cause trouble. So we need to look at our sources. Or hard believers, yeah. No, everyone, you know, this is a topic of people who are so willing to believe that people will take advantage of that. Or on the opposite end, you have the hardcore skeptics who will ridicule those who do believe.

So it's hard. Just, you know, guys, stay away from bullying on either end. and we all let's all just get along. Let's hug it out. Yeah, you know, in my dreamland. But I think that, yeah, I mean, we, like I said, there's just such good information out there. And this is such an exciting field of study.

And for me, I mean, I've learned more about the natural world, about space, about biology, chemistry, all of these things. And I just, I have grown a little bit. a person. I've become a better person. And the people and experiences that I have had along the way and met along the way have been absolutely priceless to me. I just, I don't know why somebody wouldn't want to do this. Yeah. If I can say anything, it's that I agree, this isn't about little green men, guys, first and foremost. This is about so much more and impacting humanity in ways and asking questions that are so profound

that if we ever were to get answers, it would change everything. So, you know, getting rid of that ridicule factor of, you know, just nuts and bolts, flying saucers and little green men, there are so much more to this topic. And I think people are starting to realize that as we're exploring space more, as we're making these amazing scientific discoveries,

there will come a day when that will converge with the U.F. field and maybe we'll finally find some answers. I don't know. I don't know. I think we will. I mean, I think that we're making so much progress with technology. And I think that people have the ability to share information within a matter of seconds all over the world. I think that we're, you know, going deeper in space and we're learning more about our own world. And there is a big shift. I mean, we people understand now that we're not the beginning and end of the universe and that there is something here that is interacting with us. And that's important. And I wanted to kind of stress to people that we don't necessarily know if what we're dealing with is extraterrestrial. We have no

clue. And I think that's kind of a, the more I learn about this, a dangerous way to kind of go down that road. I mean, a lot of the real hardcore researchers that have done this for 50 years, like Jacques Valle, I mean, it's more of a ultra-terrestrial. kind of interdimensional thing that we're dealing with. So don't set yourself up for believing in something until you have all of the facts. That's important. Absolutely. And there are people looking at so many different ways into this topic.

So yeah, just do your research. There's a good book coming out called The UFOs Reframing the Debate. I do have to promote that. I am in it. So just a little shameless plug. Oh, that's awesome. Yeah, it comes out late May, guys, so you can check that out. But yeah, it's about asking new questions and moving away from having any solid concrete answers.

Because anyone who says they have those answers, run. Run as fast as you can. You ain't kidding about that one. Seriously, yeah, we don't. We need to look at all different aspects of this, too. And I want to stress that the paranormal is a very important part of this. because, again, we don't know what we're dealing with there, and a lot of these things kind of move.

The boundaries are very blurry. So we need to look at that as well, and we need to stop putting ourselves in boxes as researchers. Yep, yep. If Marvel, the Marvel movies have taught me anything, it's that hashtag, everything's connected. So just keep that in mind, guys. Absolutely.

In terms of what you're working on now, Erica, Are there any cases or anything that's really struck your fancy these days? You know, I am still and always researching different hotspots and looking at the commonalities like Brown Mountain, Marfa, Texas, Heschdal and Norway. And looking at some of the really interesting things that have taken place, you know, especially by Skinwalker, where you have instances where the soil has been displaced. and that happened over in Heschdalen as well. I mean, there are some very curious cases or reports of underground sounds, and that is something I've been looking into and trying to get more people to come forward with reports in the Uinta Basin.

And that is a place I'm going to be, again, visiting fairly quickly here and doing a research study up in an area that I have become aware of to see what we can get. And so that's what I'm doing because Utah is so full of amazing things. And it's a state that hasn't had a lot of focus on it, which I'm hoping. And I've hoped I've kind of changed that a little bit by helping Dave to get the message out about things that are taking place here. Yeah. And I do think media coverage does influence that a lot.

It will get people to come forward with their own events. And Utah is certainly a hot spot for UFO activity. And we have to start looking at why that might be for sure. So that's very exciting. Oh, my gosh. I love it. I just have so much fun. Yeah.

Hometown pride, for sure. Yeah. Not super proud of the politics, but you know, that's okay. That's a different story. We could all admit to that at times. That's for damn sure. Well, Erica, tell us a little bit about your radio show. Where can we find that?

Who do you got coming up? What's going on over there? Oh, my gosh. I do it every Friday night, and it is 7 p.m. Eastern Standard Time on K-C-O-R, Digital Broadcasting Network. And that is I love that network. Tina Marie is my producer. It's amazing. I've interviewed people like Fratting Ridge from NYCAP and Barry Greenwood.

Both of those people don't do radio. And so it was a real treat to have them on and share their wealth of knowledge. Tonight I've got Ray Stanford on the show. Awesome. Yeah, I mean, I just, and Greg Long was on there last week, and Greg and I have become friends, and he wrote a book on the Yakima Indian Reservation and all of the sightings that take place there that are very similar to Skinwalker. And so I find researchers to come on there that are oftentimes kind of gone underground,

but have important information to share. So UFO Classified is my baby, and I love it. And you can go to UFOclassified.com, my website, and then I'm on Facebook, and I try to tweet, but I just haven't gotten the Twitter mojo yet. I'm with you there. Yeah, it's tough. Yeah, you know. Well, those names you mentioned are ones that aren't out there on every radio show,

on every TV show talking. And it's that underground research, like you mentioned. that is most influential. And it's exciting to hear that you're actually getting their information, because I think that is the information we need most. It's those silent people in the background doing the hard work. And the fact that we have an outlet like your radio show to bring that forward, that excites me to no end.

So keep it out. Thank you. I love it. And you too. I'm so excited for you and all of your hard work and reaching out to younger people. I sound like Grandma Moses when I say that. Those younger people. Whippersnappers.

I know. I'm serious. I'm turning into my grandma. It's just, oh, Lord have mercy. But yeah, that's great. And I think that, you know, between you, we've talked about this before, I think that, you know, Jason McClellan, I think you, James Fox. I mean, John Greenwald, there are some younger people in the field that are really primed to shift the sentiment

and to do good work and to get this out there. in a worldwide way. I think so. You know, we've learned from the best, and we're just building upon that and moving forward. So if we are considered the younger generation, I'm not as young as people think, first of all, but if we are considered the younger generation,

we are going to really respect that and do what we can to move it forward. And to anyone interested in doing that with us, please reach out to us. You know, we are not scientists. We are not physicists. We are not psychologists. We're normal people who have a huge fascination with this.

And we learned early on that no one's going to do the work for us. The government is not going to do that. The military is not going to do that. They have their own agendas, their own reasons for things. So it's us, the civilians, who need to do the work. And it's people like you who I truly look up to in terms of that. Thank you. And back at you.

And I think that if people get out there, learn about it. photography. You know, technology has come down in price so much. You can get night vision, go out there, but also make sure you're taking some, you're really getting a good camera and taking some images that aren't infrared necessarily. And actually Ray Stanford and I had a conversation about that yesterday. And tonight on the show, he's going to explain why maybe we shouldn't really be using that as hardcore evidence. And he'll teach us some things. But I mean, Get out there. Get out there. Learn about all the aircraft coming in and out of your area. Learn about Native American reservations.

Learn about hot spots. And then just go out and set your camera up. Yes. Keep looking up for sure. Well, Erica, thank you so much for joining me today. This has been super fascinating. And once again, what is that website? So it's UFOclassified.com. Perfect. Again, thank you very much. Well, thank you. It's always fun talking with you. All right, guys, that's it for this week's episode. Once again, you can find all of Erica's work at UFOclassified.com.

As usual, if you haven't already, please rate and review the show wherever possible. It really does help, and it helps us gain new listeners, and I would certainly appreciate that. If you have any guest or topic suggestions, email me at Sprague at Somewhere in the Skies.com. All past episodes are available in many different formats over at Somewhere in the Skies.com. Remember, keep your feet on the ground, but never stop searching somewhere in the skies. This has been a third-kind production. To learn more, visit third-kind productions.com.