Somewhere in the Skies - ET and the Mystery of Vanishing Stars with Beatriz Villarroel

Episode Date: February 20, 2022

On episode 253 of SOMEWHERE IN THE SKIES, we are joined by astrophysicist, Beatriz Villarroel. A curiosity in the cosmos at a young age sparked a lifetime of looking up at the stars for Villarroel. This would lead her to Postdoctoral research (Nordic Fellow) at Stockholm University, Sweden, and as an affiliated researcher with Instituto de Astrof ́ısica de Canarias in Tenerife, Spain. She also serves as the Principal Investigator of the "Vanishing & Appearing Sources during a Century of Observations (VASCO) Project. After recently being awarded the 2021 L’Oréal-Unesco Prize For Women in Science, she continues her search for answers to vanishing stars and other luminous objects, which naturally leads to a bigger search for extraterrestrial intelligence. Today, she speaks with Chrissy and Ryan about these incredible projects, her thoughts on UFOs and the possibility of ET life, and the importance of Citizen Science as we move in to a new era of exploration, somewhere in the skies. Follow Beatriz Villarroel's work at: https://vasconsite.wordpress.com/blog/ Follow Chrissy Newton on Twitter at: https://twitter.com/chrissynewton Patreon: www.patreon.com/somewhereskies Website: www.somewhereintheskies.com YouTube Channel: CLICK HERE Official Store: CLICK HERE Somewhere in the Skies Coffee: CLICK HERE  Order Ryan’s book in paperback, ebook, or audiobook by CLICKING HERE Twitter: @SomewhereSkies Instagram: @SomewhereSkiesPod Read Ryan’s Articles by CLICKING HERE Watch Mysteries Decoded for free at: https://bit.ly/3rJpbd7 Opening Theme Song, "Ephemeral Reign" by Per Kiilstofte SOMEWHERE IN THE SKIES is part of the eOne podcast network. To learn more, CLICK HERE Copyright © 2021 Ryan Sprague. All rights reserved. Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/somewhere-in-the-skies. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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And with that comes many different costs to keep the show running. That's where our Patreon campaign comes in. You give what you think the show is worth. There's different rewards available all the time, including shoutouts on the show, early editions of main episodes, bonus episodes and content, and very soon monthly patron hangouts,

where we sit back and chat all things UFOs. So I hope you'll consider becoming a Patreon subscriber today. To learn more and to join, visit patreon.com slash somewhere skies. Thank you for your support and keep looking out. Today on the show, astrophysicist principal investigator of Vasco and winner of the L'Oreal Prize for Women in Science, Beatrice Villaroyal. My team is searching for objects that have vanished or appeared during 70 years on our night sky.

This includes a number of exotic astrophysical phenomena, including stars that collapse directly into black holes. It also includes possible signatures of ET. Our research is basic research, which means that it contributes to human knowledge and aims to answer some of the most profound questions. For example, are we alone here? This is Somewhere in the Skies with Brian Sprague. Beatrice, thank you so much for joining us today on Somewhere in the Skies. It's a pleasure. Yeah, we're really excited to talk to you when Chrissy and I first heard about your work and we saw that you were the winner of the, the 2021 L'Oenosco for Women in Science Award, we were like, yes, this is someone we have to talk to you. Not only because

of the amazing work you've done, but highlighting the work of women in science, which, which, you know, is an issue a lot of the times when it comes to who's at the forefront of talking about these things. And we were super excited. So yeah, Christy, if you don't mind, I'd love to start and ask Beatrice the obvious question, like how she got interested in all this stuff. So Beatrice, how did you first get interested in astrophysics? And what made you want to take that journey? Actually, it wasn't a clear thing for me. I always liked a lot of things.

I have always been very passionate about music since I was a kid. I really loved playing violin a lot. I still love playing violin. At the same time, I was quite intrigued by science. and I was, as a teenager, I was particularly interested in molecular biology, and I thought that it was so cool, like how DNA becomes a protein and all these things. However, with time, I discovered, like, there were many questions in astrophysics that intrigued me as well. And, I mean, and since I was a kid, I was always kind of a nerd.

I loved Star Wars and all these things. And so astronomy has kind of been very natural for me. like a choice. Right. Well, you're talking to two Star Wars fans here as well. So you're in good company. You're in good company. I love that. I love hearing the origin story of how people get interested in what they do. Chrissy, do you want to take it from here? Yeah, you said music. You brought up the music part. Have you been able to bring bridge music and your passion for it into the work that you're doing in science? Has there been any intersections of that? Actually, I was organizing for several years, chamber music concerts at my alma mater, where I did my PhD. During those years, I was doing my PhD studies.

I also organized this concert and sometimes played on them. So I did that. It has been very important for me to kind of keep the music alive. I can't function unless I both have music and science at the same time. Yeah, and you have like two research fields. Can you break them down a little bit for us and like what they consist of? So one of the things I like working with is active galactic nuclei. I think many might have heard of quasars,

and they know that quasars are like extremely luminous galaxy cores that you can find. And these kind of quasars, I've been very, very interested in trying to understand the physics and of them and so on. And the second thing I were interested in is searching for vanishing stars, because this is a field that is pretty untouched and that I always been, or not always, but that I have been very excited about in the last years. Yeah, the Vanishing Stars aspect of this is what I'm really interested in hearing about

and how this will eventually relate to, you know, the search for extraterrestrial intelligence and whatnot. But I actually heard you in an interview talk about how you first got interested in the idea of vanishing stars. And I loved how endearing the story was. Would you mind sharing that with us? Sure, I can tell the story.

I actually also posted it on my blog on the 11th of February, on the International Day for Women and Girls in Science. So I was younger. I was, I think either I was in my undergrad years or I was a PhD student, I don't remember exactly, unfortunately, when it was. I used to write some kind of fables and short stories, and whenever I had something I wanted to tell, I usually type it down for myself.

I usually never share these stories, or very seldom I share it with someone. And so I was writing this kind of fable about a sad quasar, and I kind of wrote it, and then I, towards the end, I sent him through a wormhole. And then I kind of started wondering, has anyone ever seen an object just vanishing from the sky? Has nothing to do with science?

Absolutely nothing with science. It was just, well, me, a younger version of myself, typing up these fables and stories. And that's kind of how I got the idea. I got stuck with it. and then I wanted to check it. The problem was that I didn't have any tools, I didn't have the means, I didn't know which surveys I could use. And so I postponed it, and in the final year of my PhD studies, I knew how I could do it.

And I tried, and I tried it with like 1% of the database that I had access to because it was a too big effort. And that's kind of how Vasco project was born. It turns out to be super difficult to check. I think I mean. Interesting. I see, that's so cool how like your curiosity as a kid would ultimately lead to like this huge project that you undertook. I love hearing stories like that. We always hear like science fiction, you know, inspires a lot of scientists until they can make it science fact. When you, when I heard that story, I was like, I have to ask her about that. But the Vasco project. I love to hear, you know, how you started.

this, what exactly it is. And yeah, would you mind telling us a little more about that? So the VASCO project is the vanishing and appearing sources during a Central of Observations project is a project where we are looking for vanishing objects, anything that vanishes from the sky. And the hope is to find something that was there, always was there, and one day it just vanishes. Of course, we don't know if these objects exist at all. We only know that there are not many studies that have dedicated to look for them because people just assume that it kind of doesn't happen. If you have a star that dies, either it's going to go supernova or it's going to transform into a white dwarf, which will take billion of years if it transforms into this white dwarf.

So you have these two modes for a star to die, but there is nothing that says that it's going to just vanish. So now there is actually a hypothesis that some stars might collapse directly into a black hole in so-called failed supernovae. But this is a hypothesis. Nobody knows if this failed supernova ever happened. So there's obviously a science case also. So the VASCO project is therefore looking for these kind of banishing objects. In the VASCO project, there is also a connection to, like, SETI research, because this is an example of a so-called. impossible effects and we proposed in a paper in 2016 that you can look for things that are

impossible let's say a star that vanishes or a galaxy that vanishes to take it even more absurd because these kind of impossible effects would be a sign of something that would look like magic to us and we know from Arthur C. Clark's laws that anything that looks like magic can just be a very, very advanced technology. I'm not sure if I said it exactly as it was written there, but something in this... Close enough. Okay, sufficiently advanced technology could look like magic. Right.

We do hear that a lot in the UFO research community. You know, what may look impossible to us? And even some of our most advanced, you know, fighter pilots saying that what they saw, what they chased these anomalies in the sky, performed unlike anything they'd ever seen. And yeah, that's going to look like magic to us until we understand the technology being displayed in what these anomalies might be. So I find that fascinating as well. Before Chrissy takes it over from here, with the Vasco Project, I love to know, have you found any of these anomalies or anything really compelling in the research that you've done that would lead you to think, yeah, yeah, I think we're on the right track.

I think we found something that is very compelling, but could also have a very mundane and boring cause, and we don't know which one it is right now, if it's the exciting cause or the boring cause. So last year we published a paper in scientific report where we see nine sources of light that appear and vanish within half an hour, or something of that order of magnitude, within the exposure time of the photographic plates. So this plate is from 1950 and you have this star-looking things that are there. If you look at a plate that was taking half an hour earlier, they are not there. You take a look at the same region of the sky six days later and they are not there.

So we have tried to identify the cause. We try to look for all kinds of astrophysical effects that could cause that. And it's simply too many of these transients in the same. as too small image of the sky to be anything that we know, like any astrophysical phenomenon that we are aware of. So we did all those checks, all known astrophysics gone. So then we started looking at all kind of instrumental issues. We have been thinking, for example, double exposure and so on, and we haven't found anything that shows or proves us that this is something instrumental either, which of course means it still can be instrumental.

For example, maybe there is some type of rare contamination or something like that that would look exactly like stars. So we've been thinking if it could be, for example, some, well, some maybe a nuclear fallout or something like that. Something boring. We have also been wondering if it could be something more exciting because it doesn't have to be instrumental effects, even if we know that most of the times

it is still the boring explanation that wins over time. And this kind of more exciting idea has been that maybe what we see could be some kind of solar reflection or solar reflections of objects that are in high orbit around Earth and that objects that are very reflective and flat. because if you would actually use the same instrumentation and have a look at images today, you have so much of space debris that you can actually see

transients that kind of appear and vanish in a small image. This is kind of one of the things that you see when you have this space debris, you see lots of glins here and there. However, these images from 1950, seven years before Spook Nikon. So that's the more exciting hypothesis but I should always start with the most boring explanation and maybe go from there. Yeah. Yeah.

Hey, I wouldn't say that nuclear fallout is boring, but I hope it's the other answer. I honestly do. Well, Chrissy, I love if you took it from here. I know we have some other questions relating to Vasco and whatnot. Yeah, please. I just, I think even if it's mundane, it's still exciting. Like all of the research that you're doing is. is wonderful and exciting overall.

I wonder, like, does your work cross over into cosmology and has it? And if so, how does it cross over into it? My work is not crossing over to cosmology right now. The work I do with AGN sometimes has some implications for cosmology, possibly, or some of it might have had. All the objects I work with are fairly close to me. or to us. So it doesn't really dive into cosmology as such. Well, you did mention instruments, Beatrice. I'd love to know where do you work out of when you're doing this?

What type of instruments are you using? Is this like an observatory in Sweden that you use? Or how does that work? It's much simpler for me in this sense. I don't work with the instruments directly myself. I use public data from like surveys that have been done by all other astronomers. For example, I use images from the Sloan Digital Sky Survey. I use images from the Palomar Sky surveys, these images that we're taking in the 50s and 60s and so on. That actually bleeds into my next question then. Citizen science, you know, how can people, you know,

who amateur astronomers or people like that, how can they actually be a part of the research, I guess, is my question. And how far have you gone into the citizen science realm? So we have actually made a citizen science project, and it has been developed by the Uppsala University's IT department, where they have a design, a very wonderful webpage that is also gamified, so that this should be a little bit more fun for the users. where a citizen scientist can go there and compare two images of the sky, one from 1950 and one from, let's say, five or ten years ago, and can see if a star that was there has vanished in the new image.

So the citizen scientists can go there and make any comments she or he finds important. And, well, simply participate in the project. It's open for everyone. And the citizen science project is very fun for me to work with as well. We are working in particular with some institutes in Algeria and in Nigeria and with amateur associations in Algeria. And it's super fun because we have a very good collaboration there. I love that.

The whole citizen science thing really, I think, brings the world together. you know, it seems like there's a lot of division in the world going on right now. But I love that coming back to these topics of, you know, space exploration and even UFOs, it actually like bridges that gap and we can all like come together and share our information. So yeah, I think that's awesome. That's why I love citizen science. Citizen archaeology, I'm part of an amateur project there where I go over Google map images for hours on end to see if, you know, I'm finding the same things as other people. So I finally,

my dream has come true and I'm sort of in Indiana Jones. So that's, that's fun for me that I can have some, some place in the scientific world. So Chrissy, please take it from there. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's wonderful. It's fabulous. You're based in Sweden from what I know. And I'm going to just, you know, go into the UFO question. I've talked to some people. you know, in Clubhouse, which is a great app and you get to, you know, talk to people internationally in real time. And a friend now that's in the clubhouse is from Sweden,

and he said that the conversation around UFOs is not really big in Sweden. Do you know why that might be? You know, they say it's kind of like people are really mum about it. It's not very much of a conversation now. Or maybe that's changing. I don't recall many conversations about UFOs with anyone of my.

Swedish friends, I think there's a very different approach or attitude to UFOs in United States and in Sweden. And I think like if a Swedish sees something weird on the sky, she or he will most likely first say, well, maybe it's a helicopter or maybe it's a weird airplane and the interpretation will always be, will maybe always be the most boring explanation first. Maybe, I can imagine that. I love to kind of play off of that, Beatrice, the idea of UFOs. A lot of people do believe that these are craft or these are some sort of intelligence

that might be extraterrestrial in origin. So in the research and work you've done, has there ever been any compelling data that would lead you to believe that there might be extraterrestrial intelligence out there, interstellar even? Yeah, what do you think about the whole idea of these UFOs people seeing on Earth

could be piloted or in control by some sort of, I guess, E.T. I think I am a UFO agnostic in the sense that I actually don't know at all what I think about. It is like depending on if you ask me in the morning or in the evening, you might get a different answer. So that's kind of my initial impression on UFOs. I think that people's experiences are almost always real, like in 99% of, of the cases. On the other hand, I don't know if I would attribute them to anything supernatural. That's exactly what I hope to find out if there's something, let's say,

if there's something like extraterrestrial behind this kind of sightings. That's something I think it would be super cool if I had a chance to find out during my lifetime as a researcher. On the other hand, I think there is a very wonderful opportunity for us, to study anomalies on the sky now, especially if there is some kind of support for that EU up sightings might be real sightings of something anomalous. I think it brings a wonderful opportunity for projects like the Galileo project. And I think what shouldn't miss out on this beautiful opportunity to learn more about the universe. But so far, I must say, I haven't seen anything that has convinced me in in science that there is um that the that the youth and sorry that

it has been here but there are things that some indications that one might see published in the scientific literature and that says that the question is justified to pose and that we should be looking maybe more like that i love that at least you're willing to ask the question because i feel like for so long, many in the scientific community weren't willing to do that. And we do see individuals, you know, kind of putting, let's be honest, their reputation on the line and saying, we need to ask this question. That is part of the scientific method. You have people like Avi Loeb with the Galileo project. You have your project with Vasco and searching for dying stars and what that could mean. So I guess kind of playing off of that, I'd love to know. I'd love to

SETI, is this a organization that you've ever worked with? And what do you think about their idea of searching for extraterrestrial intelligence through such things as radio waves? Do you think there are more beneficial ways that we could be trying to search for ET intelligence or even communicate with them other than just radio signals? I think looking for radio signals is a fantastic first idea to explore and one has been doing it since the 1960s. And I think there's a very wide parameter space one can look into.

And I think it's great that they are doing these searches in California. I think, however, that one can also try different methods. I think, for example, expanding searches in the optical, expanding searches with other methods, for example, like doing more space archaeology in the solar system. system because there are so many different ways one can look for ET. And if one is willing to look for life far, far, far away, I don't see why we shouldn't be looking for extraterrestrials,

much closer to also signs of extraterrestrial life, much closer to, yeah, where we are. If the UFOs really are caused by extraterrestrials, it means that it's low-lying fruit or low-hanging, for a long-hanging proof for a scientist to sort out. Yeah, did you by chance get to read the UFO report that was released? There was a preliminary report, right, on June 25th of last year. What was your perspective from it, your scientific perspective of it and your thoughts

and feelings around it? I have been thinking about that report quite a lot, and I've been changing my opinion back and forth about it as well, depending on if you asked. me in the morning or in the evening. I found it very interesting. I liked the fine wording it used. I am still skeptical to it because this data is not public. It's not published.

It's a report and it's not like scientists can go there and have a look at the data and play with it themselves. You just need to trust whoever who wrote the report that the analysis was currently done. So I'm both skeptical to it at the same time as I find, it as a good enough reason to actually do this research for those who are interested. I think we need to remove the stigma from a UFO research. And I think that's kind of what the U.S. government is trying to do to get their active military involved and to report these UFOs,

when in the past they haven't done that. But I think you're right. I think the next big step is, well, that data in the reports, where does that go next? And I obviously believe it should be going to the scientific community, the ones who can actually explain these things. I think in the report, they looked at 144 UFO reports. And they explained one, one as a balloon. But what about the 143 others? Could they be explained by citizen science?

Could they be explained by our top leading scientists throughout the world, possibly? but that information is classified, and we will probably never know what's in it. So how do we study something when we don't have the data to study it? That's the, I think, the conundrum and the frustration by many in the science world and in the UFO community of, hey, look, we could help you. We will probably be wrong, but we could at least ask questions that you're not. So, I mean, that's my personal opinion on the report, but people have heard my opinion enough. Yeah, I think it's actually a really, it's a great comment that you said.

Like, how are we really able to fact check it? It's just somebody who wrote it and now we have to take it as fact. I think that's great. Why? You know, we should be able to ask more questions. And hopefully in the next coming months, you know, in years that when more reports come out, they start giving us better data because I think you're right, the scientific community is going to ask for it.

And I'm happy that I think I'm really happy you made that comment. One thing that we are going to do or that we are trying to do now with the Basco project is that so we are trying to test for this hypothesis that there might be something artificial in high orbits around the Earth before the first satellite was launched. And this turns out to be quite easy to do if you use old photographic material from, let's say, from the 50s or if it would have material that is even older. Because what you can look for is several glints that fall upon a line, because if you have something that is very reflective and it's far away from the earth and it maybe rotates or spins around its axis, it's going to give off a few glints. And that's kind of what we see today also with satellites.

And you can look for these things. And you can look for this in all photographic plate material. And if you have a single piece, it should show up in this image. And that's one thing we can do. Then we don't deal with any human report, not with any classified data. We deal with public data, data that is already out there, digitized there, that any person can get access to citizens, scientists can help to look through it. And if there's a single sign of ET or a single piece of metal in the wrong place

at the wrong time, we should be able to see it. So, you know, being a female in science, how has the landscape changed is like a female perspective from like over the years from when you maybe first started to where it has now how has it changed for women in science hey how are you ready to go for a run running connects us to a rush of energy that flows through our world the cheers of friends that unlock a new gear within us the intersection of interests that inspires a run crew the support that gets you over the finish line Connection is why we move forward and what inspires us to keep going.

Let's run there. Learn more at brooksrunning.com. I think it's steadily progressing and becoming better and better. I cannot imagine how difficult it must have been, let's say, 50 years ago or 30 years ago. But I think it's always progressing and the conditions today are, I think, pretty good. It can still be better, of course, and I still think there is some work to do to make it better. Yeah, and L'Oreal is working, like right now, like you're working with them and women in science. How did that all come about working with L'Oreal? And we watched the video that's come out that they did, the little biopiece on you, which is really lovely and wonderful.

How did that all start? And to be honest, that was one of the first times I've heard that L'Oreal's been doing that as a larger beauty brand. So, you know, kudos to them, a little bit of a plug. But, kudos to L'Oreal for that. But, yeah, how did that all start? Do you like stories of the strange, the weird, and the unexplained? Then we want you to check out Jim Harold's campfire. The concept is pretty simple.

Jim talks to regular people about strange stuff that happens to them. And yes, that includes UFOs, along with cryptids, ghosts, and head scratchers. He doesn't exaggerate or play a lot of spooky music, kind of like I'm doing right now. The stories speak for themselves. Ones like a ghost story involving serial killer Ted Bundy or the young man who encountered an eight-legged demon. Then there's the story of an alien abduction by what could be considered a reptilian. Now, not all the stories are horrifying. Some are actually pretty heartwarming, like a visit from a past loved one or a peaceful near-death experience.

Regardless, these are true and fascinating stories told. by ordinary people who've had extraordinary experiences. Tune in to Jim Herald's Campfire on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to somewhere in the skies. And remember, stay spooky. So I got the price last year, and I was like super, super happy when I got it because this is a price that you can apply for.

I had sent in my application and I thought, I have no chance. Like, I just applied, like, for fun, I did the best of course with application. And then when I, like, got the letter, I was super shocked and super happy. I couldn't believe it, that I got the price. And so then, well, of course, we got to know the organizers of the prize, and it was great because we were invited for a virtual ceremony. because it was during the time of the pandemics, which means that they couldn't have the normal ceremony where 100 people are usually there and having dinners and all these fancy things like having beautiful dresses. Yeah, I like these kind of things like ceremonies.

Anyway, we had a virtual ceremony instead, so they were filming and it was super cool because they also took very nice photos with a professional photographer. I thought it was super fun, everything. Yeah, I can imagine. And even to keep on the topic of women in science, do you have any advice for women, young women that want to get into this topic and are curious and are interested in science? Do you have any advice of how they can start their career in that field?

My most important lesson has been to trust the gut feeling. Don't listen to senior scientist. Trust your gut feeling. If you feel that something is interesting, You follow that, even if the other ones say that this is boring or uninteresting or something like that. I'm worried sometimes that maybe the longer we are in science, the more we kind of gaslight this inner gut feeling we have. Like we always self-gaslight. As I say, maybe this is not so important or so.

No, I think one should just trust it and follow this intuition towards what you want to work with. That's my advice. Yeah, the questions you're asking in the projects you're involved with are some of the most profound questions we can ask of humanity. You know, is there life out there? What is out there? What comes next? I find it so inspiring.

I remember hearing, you know, someone like the character of Dana Scully in the X-Biles television show. I love her. See? After her character came on television, they said, that women got involved in the scientific world almost it shot up like 68% and that she was the inspiration and reason that a lot of women got into science. So it's good to hear that she had an impact on you as well. I can't even imagine what that feels like and that you're probably doing that for younger women as well who want to get interested in this. It's it's very cool.

And this is what we have to do, create better role models, like interesting role models that the younger generation can be inspired by. Yeah, science is, you know, hopefully becoming cool again in many ways and women are getting excited about it and they want to join in the community and learn more and research. I think it's

fabulous. You know, hopefully we'll see more in the years to come. I think so. Well, what's to come? That's what I'd love to ask. To kind of wrap things up. Two questions for you. And the big the first one's kind of big.

Say there is an extraterrestrial intelligence out there somewhere or just something non-human that will possibly make contact with Earth or has made contact.

What do you want that to be? Do you want it to be alien? Do you want it to be interdimensional? Do you want it to be humans from the future coming back and visiting us? Is there any like true answer to this UFO question that you personally want? Yes. I would wish it to be some aliens with a very strong interest into art

that would compose a lot of beautiful music and share all these arts with us so that we could get enriched culturally. Like, for example, we have, have all these wonderful, like, composers all over the world today, but imagine if we could get a factor 100 more music coming to us to listen to. That's what I would like. I love that. More art is definitely what we need. And who's to say some of these composers aren't aliens? I mean, some of the things they do are. Yeah. So what comes next Beatrice. I know the Vasco project is ongoing. I know you're doing some work with other organizations and whatnot. So what comes next for you and your endeavors in the scientific world?

So we are now trying to wrap up the first phase of the citizen science project. We have like more than 250,000 of classifications and we're working on vetting the most interesting candidates. And also we are now actually doing the analysis in the searches for these glints along a line. We published one week ago a paper in Acta Astronautica that describes how you can do these searches. And now we're actually carrying them out and analyzing the results. So that is the first thing that comes to me, trying to see, is there a single piece of metal in orbit around the earth before Sputnikuan? Interesting.

So that would, would that sort of fall into the realm of techno signatures, some sort of technology that is not from here or originated on Earth? Would that be considered something techno signature-esque? Yes, it would be a technosignature, but right in our own backyard. It would be, let's say, if ET threw some space trash on the way to the Earth, then we would see that. Give us all your trash aliens. Right, right.

We will study until the end of time. Exactly. We'll be in museums forever. Yeah. So I'm excited. It's a bit of the projects. So let's see if it gives us any consistent results or so. And I think even leaving with the concept of space trash is like, I think it's awesome.

And I'd love the whole facts. Like we look at like, yeah, like alien artifacts and things to that. So I'm just glad that we're. We're looking in all different areas. So it's exciting. It's very exciting. Beatrice, there's so much for me to go think about right now after this conversation. And that's what it's about.

It's about making people think and keeping that curiosity going. And that's what's honestly going to unravel the answers to the questions we've had for all of human history. So I personally want to thank you for taking the time to talk to us today. and thank you for joining us on Somewhere in the Skies. Thank you for inviting me. I'm very happy you did, and I want to contribute

to destigmatizing the euphotopic. Somewhere in the Skies is produced by Third Kind Productions in association with the Entertainment One podcast network.