Somewhere in the Skies - Exploring the UFO Mystery with Graeme Rendall

Episode Date: April 11, 2022

On episode 260 of SOMEWHERE IN THE SKIES, Ryan and Chrissy are joined by Graeme Rendall, author, member of UAP Media UK, and co-host of the Unidentified Aerial Podcast. They discuss all the latest developments in the world of UFOs, including the recent release of the classified UAP report, the intriguing 1,500 page release from the Defense Intelligence Agency on physical effects from UFOs, and then they dive deep in to the Calvine UFO incident and other UFO incidents from throughout the decades. Find all of Graeme Rendall's work at: https://linktr.ee/GraemeR Help the people of Ukraine: https://bit.ly/37ELIRS Patreon: www.patreon.com/somewhereskies Website: www.somewhereintheskies.com YouTube Channel: CLICK HERE Official Store: CLICK HERE Somewhere in the Skies Coffee: CLICK HERE  Order Ryan’s book in paperback, ebook, or audiobook by CLICKING HERE Twitter: @SomewhereSkies Follow Chrissy Newton on Twitter at: https://twitter.com/chrissynewton Instagram: @SomewhereSkiesPod Read Ryan’s Articles by CLICKING HERE Watch Mysteries Decoded for free at: https://bit.ly/3rJpbd7 Opening Theme Song, "Ephemeral Reign" by Per Kiilstofte SOMEWHERE IN THE SKIES is part of the eOne podcast network. To learn more, CLICK HERE Copyright © 2022 Ryan Sprague. All rights reserved. Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/somewhere-in-the-skies. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Terms apply. This is Somewhere in the Skies with Ryan Sprague. Hey, guys, Ryan Sprag here from Somewhere in the Skies. And welcome to a special live stream version of the podcast this week. We are going to be talking to Graham Rendell, who for some reason has not been on the show yet, which is insane. And I definitely had to rectify that as soon as possible. We're going to be talking about all the latest news in the UFO world. We're going to dig deep into the Calvin U.S.

UFO incident. Graham knows more than a lot of people about this. So we're going to get his thoughts and opinions on that. His thoughts and opinions on all the latest UFO news, including some file releases, some litigious goings on in the UFO world, what else is new, and a whole lot more. And we also have with us, of course, my co-pilot for the episode, Chrissy Newton joining us as well. But before we do that, we were supposed to have Andy from that UFO podcast joining us tonight. Unfortunately, he is under the weather. So we do want to send him our very best to get well soon. He was very, you know, bummed that he couldn't make it tonight. But we'll make up for it soon with a somewhere in the skies, that UFO podcast crossover. But without further ado, let's bring them in. We have with us,

Chrissy Newton and Graham. Welcome to the show, guys. Hey. Hello. Hello. This is going to be fun. I mean, we kind of just threw this together. We got some stuff to talk about. It's going to be super laid back. Anyone in the chat, feel free. Super chats open. If you want to ask Graham some questions tonight or me or Chrissy, please feel free. But yeah, Graham, before we even get to UFO stuff, you just had a mini reunion.

I'll bait for about 30 seconds with some of your friends over there at UAP Media. You got to tell me, man. What was that all about? I caught it on Twitter. Tell us a little about this little reunion you had. Well, it's a stupid thing really because we were talking about this on Priscilla Stone's show on Saturday Night on the UAP Book Club. And it just so happened that where I live in the Thumbland in Northern England, it's on the main railway line from down London up into Scotland.

And Vinny and Dan, who are part of the UAP media, were going to be part of a documentary, they're putting together a documentary in Scotland. And they were travelling effectively past where I live. and the train happened to stop at one of the stations near where I live and I knew which time of day it was. I was in the area and I said, look, guys, I'll be there. If you want to get off the train, say hello for 30 seconds, how long it is because that's how long the train stops for sort of thing,

maybe a minute and sort of thing. We'll have a quick, you know, and then he said, yeah, we'll take some pictures because it's all part of the experience. And they're up for a daft thing like that. And I'm quite spontaneous occasionally with these kind of crazy little notions. So we'll put it together over the course of the morning and on my app, I could work out when the train was coming in, so I happened to be right at the time.

They told me the coach they were in, so I knew where to stand on the platform, except the train company had swapped the coaches around for some reason. So I was in company at the wrong place. That's why I was running down the platform to make sure I was at the right place. It was all crazy. It was all kind of spur-in-the-moment thing. It was just a kind of daft carry-on,

and we're all crazy anyway. But it played well as social. media, so, you know, it gave people a bit of a laugh. And when people think, when I say things like this off the cuff, people just think, I'm joking. Sometimes I actually do it. You actually made it happen. I know. It's so cool that you guys were able to like synchronize that and make it happen. Because it, you know, it's, and I've met you in person, which was an amazing experience. But the fact of the matter is, like, between you and me and Christy, we all live in different countries, literally. different countries and rarely get to meet.

So getting that kind of like, you know, inside, you know, inside, I guess, perspective of seeing you guys meet up and hug and like, you know, do those little things. It really makes me feel like I'm there with you. So I love stuff like that. Because COVID has like made people apart and they can't work together now, you know, well, back then and you couldn't live together and you couldn't see friends. And so their friend was done virtually. it was great being able to see the guys from

European media last October and then meeting you and meeting Lou because those were things we couldn't do beforehand. So it was wonderful. But actually that doesn't seem like, it only seems like five minutes ago that you know, I was sitting around a bar table with you, Ryan. I know. I know. Stories and all the rest of it.

It was a fun night. It was a little too fun of a night. I'm not going to lie. I think I had a misty time experience after a few of those a few of those whiskeys with you guys. But no, that And I was nervous about that. I'm like, I'm meeting up with a bunch of these British people.

I don't know what's going to happen. I honestly don't know what's going to happen. But you guys were so hospitable and made me feel at home. And we had a great time. We really, really did. And one of the things you and I talked about around the bar there was the Calvin UFO incident. I'm just teasing that now. We'll get into it in a little bit.

But that was a lot of fun. Christopher Plain is here. I do want to give some of these guys a shout out. Jason, SDK, Jesse. Aaron DeSario is here. Good day, good day. Let's see. Jason, Faye, I said, Esmeralda.

Thank you guys. Thank you, everyone, for being here. Again, if you want to ask any questions, feel free to put them in the chat there. We'll get to him later in the show. One you say is I'm going to meet Christopher Plain and I'm going to bop him on the nose for some things he said about me before.

No. I've actually, Chris and I have hung out together. other two in his, Chris is in, in California. So the first time I met Chris, I was like, you are exactly the person that I would imagine on social media. And then I've met through the debrief. And it was, yeah, he's a special character. He knows that. Yeah, he's a good guy. Yeah. He really is. I love him. So is space oddities. Thank you for the super chat there, man. Good morning, brother. This is Gary. Hello, Gary. Thank you, my man. Thank you so much for the super chat there. We appreciate that. Well, let's, I guess guys dive into some of the news.

And I use the term current a little liberally here. Some of them are very current. But I do want to talk about because he's been a busy guy. I haven't been able to get him on the show. But that's John Greenwald over at the Black Vault. And he recently, somewhat recently, was able to obtain part of the classified UAP report, which was very exciting and very telling. When we actually saw the pages,

it was exactly like Stanton Friedman has always said in his lectures, like it's redacted beyond comprehension. And there are literally pages completely blacked out. But there were some small gems in that classified report that John kind of dug up. So I want to get your guys' thoughts on that. But before we do that, I do have a brief video that John actually did with The Hill. here in the United States about this. So if you don't mind, I'm going to play that.

And then we'll get your guys' comments on the other side. Is that cool? Sounds good. Awesome. All right. Give me one sec. Here we go. What's interesting is with the resources of the U.S. military, they couldn't put them in those

categories. So you have those possible explanations, but the military wasn't able to definitively say these fit into a classified platform or foreign adversary drone technology. Because you can admit that without blowing any classified secrets, yet they weren't able to do it. So it's a short list of what's left. I mean, the general public wants to know, hey, is this alien? Well, of course, you're not going to see that in the report, nor do you. But they didn't rule it out.

And they said that last year, and this report solidifies that, that, you know, that's on the short list of possible explanations. In this document, although discouraging that it is heavily redacted, absolutely solidifies the secrecy around this. phenomena, whatever it is. It likely has multiple explanations, and ironically the report reflects that as well, but it likely has multiple explanations. But the bottom line is, is the military and the U.S. government has a secret here, and they don't want to tell the general public about it. And you look at all these redactions, and again, although discouraging, that in itself tells a story. And when you really sit down and digest the document, some may theorize, oh, this is just about our classified system platforms that detected whatever these craft are.

And you can see in certain areas, yes, that is likely the explanation for the redactions. But when you really look at some of the other areas, they don't want to tell you the capabilities of what these UAP are, these mysterious unknown craft. And the explanation to that would not be classified, in my opinion. We know our systems can detect speeds, can detect altitude. So that's not classified. They won't tell you where UAPs are flying or how fast. I don't think that that should be classified yet it is.

Another key section is what they look like. They label it common shapes and then another area is uncommon shapes. That's entirely redacted as well. They won't even tell you the visual representation of what these craft look like. So let's say we are dealing with a drone type of technology. Well, there's only so many shapes a drone can be, and is that in itself, without any identifying information on a diagram or a picture, without any identifying information, is that classified? My answer would be no, yet they won't tell you a single visual observation on what shape these are.

So, again, it really solidifies the secrecy behind what these UAP really are. So, I mean, I think the shape thing is what people were really kind of theorizing over and whatnot out of this new highly redacted thing. But yeah, what did you guys? What were your initial thoughts when John said, guess what guys? I've got the classified report. And then when we actually see it, it's like, okay. Like some people were, again, excited. Some were deflated.

But welcome to the world of UFOs. So yeah, yeah. Graham, what did you think when you first saw that the classified report had been made public? Well, I know it took nine months for the information to come through, because John, I believe, had put the request through at the end of June, it was the 28th of June last year. So that was just after the initial report, the preliminary report came out. So he was quick off the mark with that.

Seeing the redactions, that's no real surprise, I think, to people who have been in this game for a long time. The information comes out in drips and drabs, and you're lucky if you get just that kind of breadcrumb, if you like, there's that little extra bit of information that inches you towards where you want to be, but you're not getting there still. So it's interesting the amount of information has come up. But yes, I agree with John about what he said.

Why can't the release information about the altitudes? Why can't the release information about the shapes? Why is that still considered secret? That's quite puzzling. I get why they're saying that they still can't release the information about the sensor platform. platforms they're using to determine, you know, the information that they've got in the report. But the rest of it just seems a bit weird. You know, maybe somebody who knows much more about this can explain it because I'm a bit of a

loss to work out like here's why they're still keeping that information under apps. To say that, you know, they're seeing UAP from, well, you can fill in the blanks and you can try and work out what would be there. And it looks from the altitudes that it could be as little as 100 feet up to several thousand, you know, tens of thousands of feet. why does that need to be secret still? I really don't understand. Right, right. And I agree with you. There are certain things that if they put it out there, it could be very telling about advanced aircraft of our own here in the United States.

And again, the, and this is what has always kind of earthed me. And, Christy, I'd love your thoughts on this too. ever since people like Elizondo and even the New York Times were saying these things like, well, it's definitely not Russia or China, the things that we're seeing. I've always had a very hard time accepting that. I also have had a hard time accepting that it's not ours. And a part of me wants to think the reason they're saying it's not Russia, it's not China. It's also not ours in the United States that they want Russia. that they want China to think, oh, it's definitely the United States.

They're just not saying it is. So we better be careful what we do and, you know, where we poke and prod with these sorts of black budget things or surveillance drones or whatnot. Again, maybe I'm way off the mark on that. But I do think there is a very, I don't even know how to put it, a very shadowy intelligence game going on here with the way that the United States is portraying the UFO question in the media right now and how it goes to rival nations and whatnot. So I don't know. Am I way off on this? What do you guys think?

Christy, what do you think? I agree with you. I've had questions if, you know, we can't just believe that it's not foreign adversaries, even though they keep telling us that they're not. We've known disinformation campaigns, misinformation campaigns, all of it has happened for so long, why can't this be part of that? And I'm still mindful for it too. And we just keep looking at Chinese technology that keeps increasing, which is unbelievable. The drone supremacy, everything. So I'm still on the same wavelength as you, Ryan. I'm not 100% sure that it's not ours. And also, why can't it be both? You know, that conversation isn't having had right now. Like, why can't it be

UFOs and why can it be foreign adversaries? And then there be blurring of lines. I can see that. It would make sense. And when you're using media or, you know, the UFO community to help push information that might be, that will be protecting, let's say, our own, you know, advanced technologies, it would make sense even though, you know, you can't do that. But I wouldn't be surprised. So I think we still have to be mindful and be, you know, and keep looking to see if that's

what the case is. And, you know, who knows, we might find out maybe 10 to 20 years from down the road that maybe some of that was our technology or foreign adversaries. We're in a very interesting time right now when it comes to, yeah, anything defense. Yeah, Graham, what do you think? I think the U.S. have a history of fielding advanced technology in conflicts. I mean, certainly the stealth fighter was employed in Panama in 1989 and then in the Gulf War in 91. So it's not as if they, you know, they keep these things under wraps forever.

Now, I agree to some extent about, you know, possibly the U.S. intelligence and military communities, keep the things under wraps for various reasons. But also, when you look at the Russian drone technology that they're using in Ukraine at the moment, and you look at some of the things on social media that the Ukrainians have shot down. In fact, today there was some footage of an All-Anten drone that the Ukrainians had shot down. This is a Russian reconnaissance platform. It's effectively a radio-controlled aircraft, and it's nothing sophisticated. It's something that some hobbyists in America could build out of carbon fire,

ever, put a piston engine on it. And it actually had a cannon SLR camera with a fixed lens on it. And that was its, basically, that was its reconnaissance capability. And it had some gizmo in the back that it controlled the shutter mechanism

and the video feed. So it could be, and then, so it could beam the information back or store it rather. So when it was brought back to base, it could download the information. So it's fairly unsophisticated technology. Now, you would expect

that if they were trying to win a war, they would feel some of their real latest kit to get the job done. And yet they've got these kind of things that you can buy in probably a hobby store, which it seems very, very strange. They've got one called the All-Land-30, which is actually twice as heavy.

It goes further. It's got a 60-hour endurance, I think. It's a bit more complicated, but it effectively is still a radio-controlled airplane. Now, they're not going to be the kind of things that have been reported in these UAP incidents the US Navy been mobbed by these drones. But there might be something else

along the pipeline that they've come up with. But from that technology, I can't see how they've leapt to something like that. The Chinese, okay, that's a different story because, yes, Chris is right. They've come up with this amazing technology over the years. But I'm not entirely sure they're there yet with that either. They can do, I think, some of the things that have been reported. So you've got high speed, you've got loitering, you've got this kind of swarming technology.

But putting all that together in one platform, I think that might be where people fall down in terms of being able to integrate all this technology into one package to get it to do everything that's being reported. And I think that might be a little bit too far for even the best kind of technology at the moment right across the world, America included. Yeah, I also appreciate.

Sorry, just one last thing before you. before. You mentioned before about, you know, these things eventually come out. And yes, stealth did come out about 15 years after the first have blue prototypes in 1975, and then senior trend, which actually was the F-147. And then it came out in 1988, I think, that they brought it out publicly. Now, things like the Calvin object, which we'll talk about, which probably was US Tech, and certainly Astra, the AV-6 that crashed the Boscom down in 1994, those things have never been

unveiled. So, you know, and this is what 30-odd years later. So why are they keeping those things under wraps? So, you know, yes, okay, at one time there were unveiling these things some years later, but it seems that's stopped and why has that happened? And are we going to see, you know, these revelations in future, are the US military going to come out and say, yeah, we've had this thing under wraps for years, and now you can know about it, but that doesn't seem to happen anymore. And why is that? Right, especially with the severe over-classification problem here in the United States, too. Like, it's so frustrating that we're learning now that this new Pentagon group or program or merge chimeras of different UFO programs within the government here in the United States, that they're basically saying 100% of this stuff is going to be classified, which is so,

like disheartening, knowing that we've come this far, we've fought this fight, and once again, um, our good friend Susan Goff is going to be getting all the UFO stuff and going to be in charge of everything that gets released to the public for media purposes and, and whatnot. And yeah, it's, it's frustrating, Graham. It really is. Um, Christy, how we doing? Can you hear me? Good. Yeah, my, I keep losing. That's why I had to put my different headside. Oh, no worries. I can hear you guys. I can hear you guys. I can't hear you at one point. So anyway, don't mind me.

That's live streaming. No, no, no, no. Do your thing. Well, you know, in terms of, I guess, releasing or whatnot, let's get to this other big story that broke recently and has kind of garnered a lot of really sensational headlines. And that was from The Sun. And I can't believe I'm saying that like we're going by a breaking story from the Sun. But we are. That's where we're at in 2022. But this headline was 1,500 pages released on UAP related to brain damage, burns, and unaccounted for pregnancies.

Okay. So that's where we're at now when it comes to mainstream media coverage of the UAP topic. I'm going to read a brief paragraph here. The Pentagon documents state that people who observed UFOs frequently disdemean. displayed a cluster of similar physical symptoms, injuries consistent with exposure to electromagnetic radiation, such as burns, heart elements, and sleep disturbances. A report speculates that these could be caused by energy-related propulsion systems and warns that the underlying technology could pose a threat to the United States' interests. Let's see here. Additionally, in cases that would not seem out of place in an X-Files episode, there were

accounts of apparent abduction and unaccounted for pregnancies. Okay. So, you know, we've heard these stories from Gary Nolan recently with Vice and whatnot about, you know, the sort of connections and comparisons that could be made between UFO witnesses and stuff like that, both physically and psychologically too. But what do you guys think of this 1,500 page release that the Sun, I believe they said they've been working on for almost four years now. Am I correct in that? Yeah, the other FOIA request.

The question I have on a PR, exactly. Like when I first read that, when that came out, I went, hold on. So we look at like Susan Goff and everyone else. I would like to know, obviously, her thoughts, which will never know her exact opinions on that. But when you're leaking something to the sun or you're sending out of a FOIA request to the sun, why not? There had to been other people that have probably submitted this, I would imagine. So my question is why the son and why wasn't there any a larger statement around that? Like it seems very weird to me, why release to a tabloid when we know that it's a tabloid? And when if these stories are that important, why wouldn't another statement follow it? So I have, and we also know that there's

been tons of burns and things that have happened to people over the years with UFO connections. And we know that that is, we know that that's happened. And it's multiple stories that are connected with UFOs and experiencers. But the question is, why just release this like this to the sun and then just not have another co-statement to go along with it? I just, there, there's a lot of like, hmm, this doesn't make sense. And I would imagine that Susan Goff knows what she's doing there. She knows it's going out. That's her job is to watch. everything that we're doing right now. So there's a lot of, I don't know.

It doesn't mean that some of these things aren't true. It's just the dissemination of information is just very weird in my mind. There's an interesting reason for that, and that would be credibility. So if you release information on that line to a tabloid, then it's a case of, well, it's a tabloid, isn't it? It's not a broadsheet. It's not a well-respected organ, or as respected as it may be sure. be. And the sun, the mirror, the star in England, in Britain, rather, you know, that they're

considered laughing stocks occasionally for the kind of stories that they produce, the star especially. So, you know, if you give them to, if you give them to the Times or the Telegraph or, you know, or the Guardian in the UK, then that would be different. But that's not where it goes. And it went to the sun, the presuming the US version of the Sun or the UK version. And, well, that destroys of credibility straightaway because of the way they'll treat the story. I'm not saying that the journalists at the Sun are no good. They're fine in the Times of Reporting they do, but it's not the same as giving it to, say, the BBC to run with the story. You know, so it's, they're not being, you know, they're not being untruthful in giving the information to them and the Sun aren't being

untruthful in reporting it. It's just that the kind of that credibility level is not as high as it would be if a much more respected publication or television, you know, sort of kind of, you know, the Fox BBC got a hold of it and said, you know, here we're going to run with this story. But yes, Chris, are you right? You know, there have been stories of, you know, effects. So you've got the Falcon Lake incident. Was that 67 in Canada? Where the guy had that kind of grid mark of burns on his body because he'd been hit by the

exhaust from a craft when it was taking off. And that was a famous story. The Cash Landrum incident from 1980. One of them had burns, which were reminiscent of radiation, yes, without the kind of death effects, if you like. So, you've got cases, and I've got a case in my book from 1945 of a bomber crew who not only was there an electrical electromagnetic possible effect on the aircraft mechanics, but also the actual crew had effects themselves. So you've got a two-sided thing there. So, yeah, there are stories, you know, from right throughout the kind of history of UFOs about effects on not just machinery, the cars, etc., but also on people. Yeah, and I also think that if anybody who's experienced this and has, you know, any type of effect that's happened to them, you know, or mark on their body or anything physical, when you see that story released from the sun and then it comes out, you're probably shaking your head going, you know, they're discredding it, like you said.

And that's unfortunate on that on its own as well, because, you know, even when the sun picks it up, we still had live science and a lot of other mainstream media take the story and run with it, too. So it doesn't mean that it's not going to go into the mainstream. But I'm curious if even the New York Times have run a story like this. Like, you know, you need a lot of back information. And it would love to like have Ralph Flumonthal or Leslie on this to speak to that too. It'd be really interesting to see their perspective. If that was leaked to them through a foyer, that, um, that, the Times would even, would they even acknowledge it? Because sometimes they don't pick up other stories from individual like from Ralph or Leslie, right? So I'm curious to see if they would even consider it. Yeah. I mean, yeah. And you know, within New York Times, Ralph and Leslie both said like how long it took to source everything and vet everything just to get that first article out. And then you're right, the Times wouldn't run subsequent articles that they had written because they could back it up because they didn't have it. You know what I find interesting too with this story is kind of the feedback loop, I call it, phenomenon of people like Alizondo have gone on

record saying, you know where we got a lot of our information about UFOs is from you guys, from euphologists, from the many books written, from Mufon case files. And they're like, you guys did the heavy lifting. And a lot of the, the stuff we looked at, we polled from that research from those articles, from those books, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, to try to find answers and see what you guys came up with. So I find that really interesting. Is that what we're seeing with this 1,500 page thing? Where did these pages come from?

What are the sources for them? And I've seen people say a lot of it came from past Mufon investigations and whatnot. So there you go. You know, it's not so much, these are government files on UFO. but they're merely case files from Mufon, from NICAP, from Newfork, from QFOS, from blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, every sort of organization you can think of that they've kind of compiled and said, look, here's some files, give them to the public because they're already out there anyways. So it's kind of, again, this like constant feedback loop of where we're reading and hearing the same stories over and over

because these have been made public. These are declassified. These are stories of people saying they were kidnapped by aliens and impregnated by aliens or, you know, had strange psychic abilities after they saw a UFO. It's not so much the government investigated that. It's just that they said, oh, cool, let's put that in the file and release it to the sun. I don't know. Yeah, but I think we'd even see, I would say 20 years ago when a tabloy release it, you know, they would just stay like the inquire would release something and then it would just stay in the inquirer, right? but mainstream would never pick it up.

So this is the first time we're ever seeing that mainstream is looking at a tabloid and running their story too. Like that, like what kind of media world do we live in now? And, you know, it's very, the evolution is very interesting. So if the sun has this, what else is the sign going to come out with if they have other FOIA cross side of mansion? And what is the government going to give them? Yeah. Right. And what if they are the ones to break some?

huge mega ultra story. Like, are we to believe it then? And is that the plan to really sit through something like that or the National Enquirer here in the United States? I don't know. Christopher Plain said, did Ryan's UFO sight and get him pregnant? Because that would be

awesome. I'm sorry. I have no comment on that, Chris. Our resident comedian at the debrief. I have been having a lot of weird cravings lately of like ice cream and pickles. So there might be something to do been a little moody, but I don't want to go too down the sexist route there. So I'm going to

stop talking about pregnancy. Do you guys have anything else on this story before we move on to our third and possibly most ridiculous news story to come out? No, I'm good. Fair enough. All right. Let's do it. Let's do it. Showtime encounters trademark lawsuit over UFO docu-shunds. series. So apparently I can't say UFO. I'm about to get sued by Bill Burns. But yeah, let's read this brief recap of this story. UFO magazine is the owner of the trademark for entertainment in the nature of a television series and motion picture film series. Let's see,

for the term UFO. The trademark was registered in 2007 and renewed in 2017. UFO magazine argues that Showtime's docuseries, the one by JJ Abrams, for anyone who hasn't seen it yet, it devalues its plans to release an identically titled movie or show. As recently as September of 2020, UFO magazine, has a sponsorship role with the Virtual International UFO Congress sought collaborators for development of a movie. So, yeah, basically JJ Abrams and crew are being, sued for calling their

docu-series UFO. That's it. That's the story. What do you guys think about it? I can't believe we're having this conversation. Graham, what do you think, man? It's bonkers. That's a good real fashioned English word, bonkers. It's crazy. So how the

hell do you trademark letters that are being in use for what? Like 70 years, 75 years. How do you manage that? How do you put... A term by the Air Force. Yeah. Do you have to persuade a judge or something to come up and say, yeah, okay, I agree with that. How does it work?

It's stupid. Does that mean now that I could now go out and trademark LOL and then get a lot of people to pay me because they use it every day on their phone? Does that work? Because if not, I'm going to do it. You got to go back and I'm doing things. Chris, Plain might do it before I do. He might. I know.

He's working on it right now. I was going to say, Graham, you got to move. the U.S. man, because we are the most litigious place on the planet. And look, someone tried to trademark the term secret space program a few years back. We won't say his name because we don't want to give him publicity. But I thought it was hilarious. So I made like a parody commercial saying like, hi, I'm Ryan Sprigg. And I'm trademarking the term UFO. So anytime you use it now, and I put like the kaching sound behind it, making money every time anyone says UFO. And I did this as a joke. And now here we in 2022 and someone who's suing someone for using the term UFO.

Christine, you are our resident PR person. What do you make of all this? Good for you for trademarking that and it is entertainment and you know the business. So good for you for doing it. But come on. Like you really think you're going to use it. And I think that's that he was waiting for this moment. I think that's what was happening.

It was waiting. It's like somebody, for example, when they have a song that comes out and they use a similar riff and then they don't go and sue them right away. They wait like 20 years for the money to build up and then they sue them because they know they're going to cash out. I think like tons of artists have gone through this. But it's the same kind of idea. I think they were just waiting on it. But I also want to know if this documentary is going to come out. So let's apparently if you are, then what is this, you know, A, you've leaked your new documentary apparently that's coming out or that you're going to be doing something. I think that's what he was saying, correct?

UFO magazine's working on a doc and taking the name. So, okay, well, you leaked that. That's not a good thing for PR. You should have maybe, this wasn't your plan for release. Because if you did, you would speak more about your documentary and why it was in planning. The one thing I will say for them, though, is that they gave them a couple chances to respond in J.J. Abrams team. Sorry, not J.J. Abrams. It was Showtime didn't respond to it and ignored it.

So, you know, they could have made a statement or something else related to it, but there's probably legal reasons why they didn't respond. I would obviously imagine they know what they're doing, but it is ridiculous. Like, it's just, it is. And, you know, Aaron is cash cowing out of it.

It's, it is. Peter. They're just looking for, you really care about the topic. You care about the money. And that's, or the money.

Yeah. And it's a domain squatter situation, Aaron says. And that's true. People will buy domains for websites that they know people will search for just to make money. And I understand, like living, we all live in, not all of us, but most of us live in a capitalistic society.

And like, if you can get ahead somehow, you're going to do it. And I just, I'm going through right now the trademark experience with somewhere in the skies, because I've been doing a show for almost two years. And everyone was like, that's trademarked, right? And I'm like, yeah, totally, for sure, yeah. So now anyone watching is going to try to go beat me to it. I should probably cut this from the recorded version of this show. I'm thinking myself into a corner.

But I'm just being honest. Like, I'm dealing with this sort of thing right now with somewhere in the skies. And it's true. Like, you have to get a trademark for a certain entertainment purpose or television. Chrissy, you and I know this very well. Like, certain things are, you know, we're legally bound to when it comes to television or this or that. It's just the way that it is. But it does make me truly wonder what UFO magazine or by proxy Bill Burns, the owner of UFO magazine, what is Ngoal is with this?

Is it just for publicity? Is it for the money? Or does he really think, like, he owns the term UFO? If that's the case, like, the dude's lost it completely, completely. Yeah, my thing is just, and do you, how much do you really care about the topic then? that's just my thing. Are you here to just cash out and make paid art, make some money

and then leave? And that's kind of what I'm seeing here. And to be honest, as a PR person, it's bad publicity anyway. You're going to have a film. If anyone, people might watch your film after this, but they're not going to respect you as much. And to be honest, if you're going to stay in a community that is morally and global

around this topic, then, you know, I would and making money off people, they actually might not consume thinking that too. I know I might not watch it if I know that this person is just trying to make money and that's it. Like I think people are allowed to make money, obviously, in the UFO community, because people do have to have a living. But I don't think that you should be using words that everyone uses like UFO, you know,

or flying saucer, you know, like, see Kenneth Arnold trying to, you know, make a, you know, trying to copyright that. So like, it just, I think it's kind of ridiculous to be honest. As an author, I've used the word UFO, well, UFOs in my book title. And I may well use the term flying saucer in another book I might write in the future. But that doesn't mean to say I'm going to trademark it. And I wouldn't expect anybody to then sue me because I've used it because it's in common usage. You know, people use it all the time in books and magazines and websites and all the rest of it.

And I can't see how you could. But then again, that's a British perspective. We're not as litigious as you guys across there are. Thank God. We have to tell him too. We're getting there, though. Yeah, we have to tell them too. I'm like, it's UAP now.

I'm like, come on, we're moving forward. I was probably going to start trying to trademark that as well. Right? I know. Don't give my ideas. I know. We've given too many people too many ideas. Nightgays have said, be right back, trademarking.

Aaron said, I'm going to go register UAP. It's so true. It's so true. So Christopher Plain asked, will Graham be taking any questions about World War II and UFOs? And I'm starring the questions, Chris. We'll get to those towards the end with Graham for sure. I definitely do want to talk about your book, Graham, and your upcoming project, if there's anything you can tease with that. But before we do that, Graham, there is something I do want to talk to you about, and it has a little something to do with this official somewhere in the sky's mug that is not trademarked.

I should get on that too. With that lovely Tick-Tac there. Now, one of the big things I appreciate about what you do on Twitter and what people like Witness Citizens, do is dig up all these documents and files of cases, you know, even pre-World War II, but kind of during that time period and kind of comparing it to things going on now. And that's what I find most fascinating. Even as decades and decades past, there are some similarities between UAP that are being reported. And I know that you have come across a few cases. You'd mentioned to me back in the early 50s that might or might not.

have some connections with the Tick-Tac things we're seeing or the Nimitz invent on a more broad spectrum. So yeah, is that something you want to touch on here before we move on to the Calvin incident, one of my favorites? Yeah, I can talk about that for a few minutes.

So if you cast your mind back to even before I brought the book on the Food Fighters out last year. In April, I did an article for the debrief about the similarities between some of the, or the World War II reporting. and the Nimitz case from 2004.

And there was a specific incident that happened, well, there were two actually incidents that happened in 1943, one of which I covered in the article, which were fairly similar. But also I've found since I'm doing another book, which you mentioned before, that I am actually writing another book at the moment about some cases a bit later on.

And then this is not a foo fighter book, this is something else. But in the course of looking through some of the documents from sign and from Grudge and from Blue Book, I found some witnesses. cases. Now, one of them is fairly well known. It's the George Gorman case which is from the 1st of October 1948. And he was a North Dakota Air National Guard pilot who effectively got into a dog fight with a white light over Fargo in North Dakota, one night after who was coming

back to base. And I'll just read a little bit out with a report if I can. And this is from a checklist of unidentified flying objects, which was incident number 172 from the Project Sign files, and Project Sign was the first official UFO investigation by the US Air Force. And what he mentions is, this is a quote from the actual information that was put in the report, and he says, the closest Gorman ever got to the object was a head-on pass, at which time the object passed over him at less than 500 feet. It then appeared to him to be from six to eight inches in diameter. It was white with no apparent glare and a clear-cut egg.

It apparently had depth. It did not seem an exact ball, but it appeared flat. Realising that the speed of the object was too much for him, Gorman attempted to cut it off in turns. At this time, his fighter was under full power, speed varying from 300 to 400 miles an hour. The object circled to the left. He cut it back to it for a head-on pass.

The pass was made of 5,000 feet. The object approaching head-on until a collision seemed inevitable. It then veered and passed 500 feet or less both over the top of him. He shandeled, which is a type of maneuver that a fighter pilot would do, and then initiated a pass at Gorman. So it was actually, you know,

reacting to him, if you like, and almost in the same kind of vein as the Nimitz encounter where they were going round in circles, and Fravo was trying to cut the corner, if you like, on the Tick-Tac. Now, this is a kind of similar thing there,

that in the report, he mentions that Gorman tries to cut the corner, to get behind this whatever this thing was. And there was a series of, and this thing was making head-on passes in him. Now that's not the only one. And you can look then to 1952 and over Oak Ridge, Tennessee,

which is where the Atomic Energy Commission facility was, that actually managed to manufacture the material for the atom bombs during World War II there. And it was a fairly sensitive area. Obviously, it was in atomic facility. So anything that was reported strange over that area, fighter pilots responded to it.

They were scrambled from nearby bases. And this one is another Air National Guard. He's a Tennessee Air National Guard pilot. This is from June 1952, and he's flying an F-47 Thunderbolt. And again, it's a blinking white light flying around making passes at him. He turns to meet the pass,

and this thing pulled up to 4,500 feet above him. No silhouette visible, only a white light. And so there's another report of a dog fight happening between an aircraft and an unidentified flying object. Again, that's culled from the official report that ended up in the investigation files. And one final one, if I can, this one's from much later, and this involves 1954. This is June 1954, and a lieutenant row who was from the Ohio Air National Guard, again, flying a Mustang, such as the George Gorman case from 1948, and this is over Dayton, Ohio,

where again a strange object follows them back from a flight from Columbus and then they get into a dog fight. And this is just a little quick quote from the report again. He mentions that he made a regular fighter turns into the object, but all times it turned with him. And so that's one of the quotes. It seemed to be slightly above me at all times. That's another one.

He thinks it's a jet, but it does things that a jet can't do. So these are all official reports. and it's rather strange how these things just keep cropping up time after time and time again in the official reporting. Now, I know that likes of Sign Grudge and Blue Book got a slating and have had continuous slating from UFO enthusiasts over the years because of the way they tread witnesses, etc., you know, well, Blue Book especially later on in existence. But actually the information itself is gold dust, you know, in terms of the detail that's got in it.

and I think a lot of people have written off these reports because of the association with the mechanisms that were used to try and write them off for mundane reasons such as Venus and meteors and all the rest of it. But the information's solid. It comes from the pilots themselves and it all builds up to build a picture up of all these things that are going on

which were oddly reminiscent of the 2005 incident, albeit the aircraft are different and the capabilities are slightly different. but the actual mechanics of the situation are quite similar in terms of the dog fight and the inability of the pilots to be able to recognize or actually get the better of or intercept what these things were. Wow. It's so interesting. Yeah, and you bring up, you know, that's just the U.S.

I mean, Chrissy and I spoke to Daniel Otis over at Vice recently about the hundreds of files he got from Transport. and the Canadian government where there were cases as well of, you know, these UFOs having, quote unquote, like games or dog fights in so many words with UAP. And the only reason he was able to get those files is some of them were through NORAD and you're able to get those as a Canadian in Canada where we can't in the United States still. So, yeah, I think it's fascinating that we can even cross this against different governments and countries where these dogfight things are happening with similar white lighted UFOs or white oblong shaped craft. And the fact that they're seeing them in the 50s and now we're seeing

them in the, you know, the later aughts. And like, what does that tell us? Are we seeing the same craft? Why are we seeing the same technology displayed in 50 and now in 2020? Like, have they not updated their craft or what's the deal here? Is it just pilot, not pilot air? Not pilot air. but pilot perception or witness perception. I don't know. I don't know. We can make patterns of anything. Yeah, I would, well, it also goes back to cultural feedback loops. I'm, like, fascinated by them, to be honest, like the psychology around how we, you know, different, different centuries or different times seeing, you know, every decade we see a UFO and it looks a certain way.

And they say that it might be a projection, right, of what we, how we've evolved as a society. And so we're projecting these UFOs or these images because then pop culture takes. it and then pop culture blows it up and then reconfrey people see their sightings and then it gets reconfirmed and then it happens again. So, but what happens is we're seeing in culture feedback loops is that you're looking at 30s, 40s, 50, 60, 70s, you know, we keep going. Those crafts have changed, but now we're seeing that they're staying the same. So it really does change the definition of a culture feedback loop because the culture feedback loop would say that, well, it's just as we evolve as humans and as we've evolved, the image and the projection is evolving as well.

But we're not, it's kind of not seeing that if we're seeing tick-tacks from the 50s and they're coming back now. Well, yeah, and I just, this just dawned on me, which I can't believe it took me this long. But like Graham's entire book, UFOs before Roswell, like covering the early inception of the foo fighter phenomenon, that's like the most prevalent type of UFO today. So we have kind of come full circle where we're, like, covering the early inception of the foo fighter phenomenon. we have kind of come full circle where we went from lights dog fighting with these planes no one knows who they belong to or what they were doing there um and like then we went to solid craft of saucers and triangles and this and that and now the most reported UFO seemed to be these

plasma like orbs or foo fighter-esque phenomena happening which is it's crazy it's crazy i can't think of a more ample time for your book to have come out right and to be completely honest, because again, food fighters are making a comeback, apparently, apparently. I don't think they ever went away. I think if you look at the reporting from right through the years, I think every so often you'll see these reports of lights, orbs, whatever you want to call them,

from the early 1940s all the way through the present, but also you still get reports of what used to be called cigar-shaped objects. That's the thing I remember from when I was growing up reading UFO books. Now they're called TikToks, but they're essentially the same. kind of thing to a degree. And even in doing World War II, I've got reports in the book of oblong-shaped objects. I mean, bear in mind, some of these were quite large.

They reported as 50 feet, 100 feet, 200 feet sometimes. But, you know, the dimensions might change, but the actual shape is still effectively a Tic-Tac, although they reported a Zeppelin looking like Zeppelin back then. But a Zeppelin was a Tick-Tac, really, isn't it? So, you know, the things can change in magnitude in terms of dimension. and maybe speeds, but overall, they still look fairly similar

and you still can boil them down into a certain number of shapes. You've seen those charts, the UFOs where they have all the different shapes. And I bet that redacted a report when people get to see it, when it says about the different shapes, it'll boil it down into half a dozen

or a dozen different types. And there'll all be things that we're fairly familiar with. Maybe not the Cuban sphere, but other things will be fairly, you know, we'll go, yeah, yeah, we'll know what those are. Ah, that damn Cuban,

sphere, that thing will mystify me till the end of time. For real. Well, you know, while we're on the subject, Christopher Plain asked a pretty interesting question that I want to throw up there. Before we finally get to Calvin, sorry to cover your mouth there, Chrissy. Some have theorized that the Hestelin lights may be an artifact, you know, high power radio waves. Is there any indication that foo fighters may have also been atmospheric phenomena?

Did that come across in any of your explanations for what the food fighters could have been? It's been post-war when people have looked at it in the last sort of 20, 30 years, people have come up with that as an explanation, ball lightning being another one. But in terms of evidence, no, there's nothing like that. As far as I'm aware, certainly not for the wartime stuff.

I mean, bearing in mind that their kind of examination of the phenomenon we can get at this later, if you like, was fairly sparse in terms of trying to work out what the hell it was. They went down one particular road, which we can speak to later on. But that's all they love. looked at. And when that, what that didn't appear to be the case, they didn't, they couldn't go anywhere else because all avenues of expiration to them were meaningless. So, but I can talk about that later on. But no, you know, they haven't really looked at earthlights as being any kind of explanation for this. But it could well be. You know, it's one of those things that, yeah, it's possible. But nobody's really been able to work it out and say, yeah, there you go. That's what it is. But equally, you can't rule it out.

I don't rule anything out. There are things I don't rule in because they're so preposterous that they're laughable, but that's again in the book. But yes, that's one of the things, yeah, could be, could be. Could be, yeah. This is an interesting comment.

Lord Ludacris says, my grandfather was a P-38 pilot and was also part of the Berlin airlift. He never saw a foo fighter, but I remember him saying the pilots did talk about them. That is really interesting. We hear that more and more, you know, that after they do leave,

the Air Force or the Navy that a lot of these pilots then go on to say, yeah, I did see that. Yes, I did see that. I had a pilot actually reach out to me last month that was over in the Persian Gulf and had a really fascinating UFO setting. I'm hoping to get her, yes, her on the show hopefully soon to talk about that. But yeah, yeah, yeah. Anything else on those connections between then and now that you guys want to touch on before we move to Calvin?

There's two in the book from 1943. So you've got connections between 1943 and 2004. So there were two different fighter pilots. One was over North Africa. He was a New Zealander, 73

subordinate, and he wrote to the New Zealand aviation minister after a particular famous sighting in 195 saying, look, I saw this in 1943, a light that basically followed him sat on his wingtip over North Africa.

He was trying everything he could to get this thing off his wingtip and it wouldn't move. It just sat there. It got the point where he could actually turn the aircraft and there was a bit of a delay in it responding. So he managed to get behind it at one stage and he was firing 20mm cannon in it. And the cannon shells were going

into the light and nothing was happening. So that's one story. And then there's another story over Southern Italy in December 1940, of a bow fighter crew, a night fighter crew, again with a light, and them going in a spiraling engagement, the two of them going round and round in circles upwards

to about 12,000 feet, and this light just getting away from the bow fighter, which was actually quite a powerful aircraft, and just disappearing. So there's all these kind of stories that have involved these kind of foo fighter type lights. Even before the term was invented by the Americans, these things were still happening

and affecting RF pilots, long before the foo fighters became a thing. Wow. Interesting. Last question on that, Graham, I promise, before we get to, what I really want to talk about. I know. I don't know why I love it so much, especially after some of the stuff you told me about it that we will get into. Did Graham, this is from Christopher Plain, did Graham find any accounts of pilots colliding with foo fighters or any, like, truly near-mist?

anything like that? Great question. There's a story of the Balkans that something hit an aircraft, hit an RAF bomber over possibly Hungary or Romania, somewhere like that, in 1944. There are stories of 1943 of an American daylight raid over Stuttgart, where a shawl of little black discs fell from the sky and one of them hit the wing of an aircraft and maybe caught fire. But again, there's some sort of confusion about that particular story.

And that appeared in a book in 1960. It's quite an old story. It's available on the internet. It's a well-known story of that raid. So, yes, there are stories along those lines. And there are some others as well of near-misses where things fell through bomber formations. There's a particular story from Italy in 1944 of that as well. So, yeah, there are definitely stories.

And, of course, we don't know about the pilots who didn't come back. Right, right, yeah. Oh, gosh, what are... the one that comes in mind to me is the the lentage case obviously the one in Michigan as well is that the Felix Moncler case from

953 where yeah yeah very unfortunate over LLLLLIC Superior yep yeah very sad and it's happened we have to take that into account you know what happened but yeah fascinating

Hey guys Ryan here the Summer in the Sky's podcast is a labor of love every week. And with that comes many different costs to keep the show running. That's where our Patreon campaign comes in. You give what you think the show is worth. There's different rewards available all the time, including shoutouts on the show, early editions of main episodes, bonus episodes and content, and very soon monthly patron hangouts, where we sit back and chat all things UFOs. So I hope you'll consider becoming a Patreon subscriber today to learn more. and to join, visit patreon.com slash somewhere skies.

Thank you for your support and keep looking up. Here we go. And I know you, yeah, let's do it because I know you have limited time tonight. What do you, are you familiar with the Calvin UFO incident? I'm only, yeah, I'm only fairly familiar with it. I know that they said that it can't be released until like, I think, 20075, I believe. So I know.

Yeah. And I know that, yeah, there was two hikers that went hiking. I know the story of it and then they took the photos and it's supposed to be one of the most amazing UFO photos and I believe it's a diamond shaped and there's been renderings of it. But I don't know where we're at, there we go. I don't know where we're at.

That's a rendering just so make sure people don't think it's real. Yes. Let's give that precursor. This is not in actual UFO photo people. Okay. Yeah. So I just know that from the base of the story and then I know that as of now,

the conversation, but grandma, I'd love to know where your thoughts are and what your thoughts on this and what else you might know that you talk to us about. Let's, yeah, let's kind of, if you don't mind, Graham, start from the beginning, man. Give us, like, the skivion where this image came from, this rendering. I know there's supposedly an actual photo, but yeah, if you don't mind, like Thursday said, like Cliff Notes version of what this event is, who brought it to light.

You know, I did just talk to Nick Pope on the show not too long ago. He was in New York, so I got to sit down with him face to face, and he's a controversial. person. So take what you will for him on this incident, but he is directly involved, apparently. So yeah, take it from there, man. I'm going to shut up. Yeah, well, Nick certainly has an interest in the case because I believe

he said he had a poster on his wall, which had this, you know, that was taken from the photograph, or one of the photographs, and then, of course, this representation was taken from it. There's actually a line drawing in the MOD archives, which you can find online. It does

show the craft that you've got there. it's just like a kind of photocopy, if you like, of a line drawing that they use to try and do some analysis on the sizes, etc., of the object. So it's like a very crude photocopy, and it does show that kind of outline shape of the craft, and it does show an aircraft in roughly that kind of position, which is a harrier. You know, you can tell what type of aircraft it is. And actually in the original image, they reckon that they found evidence of a second aircraft as well, albeit someone that was much further away. It doesn't show up on the line drawing.

drawing. The course the photograph itself has never been published. So, you know, nobody's actually officially seen it. But that's all I'll say on that matter. In terms of setting the scene, so we're looking at the 4th of August 1990. So it's, you know, 32 years ago. And it's about 9 o'clock at night. And this is Calveen. It's a very, it's a very small place. It's a, it's a, it's a hamlet effectively. It's sort of half a dozen houses, a couple of farms, just off the main highway, from Perth to Inverness, which is in central Scotland. So you're going through the mountains, effectively, in Scotland, in the Scottish Highlands. So it's reasonably, you know, sparsely populated, but not entirely uninhabited.

So there are people who live there. But one night, so you're nine o'clock in night in the middle of the summer, so there's still light to be able to see and take photographs. Two people, now Chrissy called them hikers, were on a hillside nearby. They weren't hikers. They were poachers. and the reason probably that they had the camera with them, and this is an extrapolation, this is not for certain,

but I'm guessing that the reason why they had the camera was because they had a kill and they were wanting to take a picture of it. Because the only reason why they'd have a camera out there. Right, right. Okay, and that makes sense, all right? So it's one of these one and a million opportunities to take a picture of a UFO, what people are called a UFO. We were in the right place at the right time with the right equipment.

it wasn't planned or anything like it just happened to be you know happenstance so these two guys took this picture or they took six pictures rather apparently and this is one of them you know the representation of it of this diamond-shaped craft with this little kind of impanage at the one end of it and one at least one harrier now they said the harry was flying around you know in the area and of course when the analysis of the image came up much later, the guys at the Ministry of Defense actually realized that there was another aircraft in the image. But that wasn't apparent straight away. Now, this thing, this diamond-shaped craft was hovering. And it hovered there. They said when they reported the incident for about 10 minutes, 15 minutes or so. I can't remember the exact time scan, but it was a fair amount of time. And then it shot upwards outside.

The aircraft were certain the reason. Now, it's not clear whether the aircraft were escorting it or whether they just happen to be in the same vicinity. You know, one that again, one those million to one shots. It's not entirely clear. Now, the two guys actually took the story to the daily record, which is one of the main sort of, you know, Scottish newspapers. And when they got the pictures, they didn't know what to do with them.

Because I think the, if I remember rightly, the picture editor, etc., the other people who would deal with it, you know, stuff like this coming into the paper, he was on Haldane. So there was a relief staff who were on. And rather than take the information and publish the story, which would have been the best thing all around and publish the picture,

they asked the MOD for comment before the story was run. And of course, the MOD, the Ministry of Defense, said, well, can we have a look at them? And they went, yeah, and they passed all the information to them. Just give the MOD the information. There's mistake one. Right. So the Devinacrode didn't have any of the details anymore.

They passed everything to, I don't even believe the two copies. They just passed everything to the MOD. Now, you can look in the MOD release of files from back then, from this time period, or shortly afterwards, rather, about September time, 1990. They're available. You can see them on the internet. And they do see the backwards and forwards of the documents

to do with this case. So there is this line drawing because they passed it to a branch called DI55, which is effective of the investigation arm of the Ministry of Defense in terms of UFOs. Now, you know, see, Nick Pope says that he, well, does he say that he led the UFO program? Or he was the major player in it? I don't necessarily think that's quite the case.

He was certainly there to take phone calls and maybe sort of work on policy and things like that. but he worked in an office, he never went, as far as I'm aware, and I'm not trying to denigrate, you know, Nick Popier at all, but he never went into the field and did, you know, on the spot investigations. And in terms of technical analysis, this other branch did that kind of stuff because there are documents to show that they actually did a, you know, some kind of analysis on this draw, they came up with this drawing

to try and work out what the size of it was compared with a Harrier to see whether it was any kind of thing that they knew about or, just what they would do anyway for an unknown craft, see what size it was, see what dimensions, was all, yadda, yadda. But that wasn't Nick Pope. He didn't do that. There was this other branch that did it.

So you can see that information. You can see also there's some information around that line drawing that they asked four squadron, because that four squadron operations is mentioned in this specific document. Four squadron was actually a unit that flew the Harrier back in 1990, along with one squadron and three squadron.

I've looked through their operational records for that particular month there's no mention of this craft whatsoever surprise surprise but when you look at some other information they realized or the MOD realized and this is not Nick Pope because I don't think he was working for them at that time

I might be wrong about that but I'm pretty sure he wasn't in post at the time this happened I think that might have been afterwards he sorry whoever was dealing with the case at the time I believe he was something called Owen Hyatt I might be wrong about that as well.

But whoever actually it was dealing with it for the MOD, they had a list of kind of things that we'd taught the journalists about because there's a document in the files about that as well that says, you know, lines to take. It actually says that. So they've got four or five lines about

what they should say about this incident. And then also there's a bit underneath where it says if pressed. So that means if the journalists didn't take, you know, no for an answer and went further. This is something else that would say. So you've got all that kind of thing. You know, it's quite weird to see this kind of,

it's effectively like a PR exercise for them to come out with all this stuff in advance and saying, you know, this is what we're going to tell you when you ask about it. And if you probe a little bit deeper, we're going to say this if we're pushed. So that's the kind of questioning. So that's the information that's in the archives.

Now, the witnesses never came forward ever. But there's a reason for that. And that's probably doubt the fact that they were, you know, poaching. and they may have been known in the area the police might have been involved at some stage chances are they just didn't want the publicity they might have thought it was a good idea

to go to a newspaper with a story I'm presupposing here, of course, to get some money for a story because tabloids pay for stories in the UK they might have thought they weren't in a quick book but it might have backfired on them with all the press attention that it came after this

they probably just want to keep quiet because a few too many questions might have found out why they were actually there for rather than just being two hikers. Essentially, they're living. Yeah, they don't want to risk that. Every time you see the story, it's two hikers. They weren't hikers.

They were poachers. So there's your bit straight away. Now, in terms of the locking away the records, Chris said 2075, it's actually 2076 that been locked to. Damn it, Chrissy. Sorry, let me year off. One year. One year.

I'm hopeful that it's going to come out a year before. Oh, she's the optimist on someone. It's just a year, just one year. Yeah, it's not a biggie, don't worry. It's a long time. And the reason why they're doing it until effectively the witnesses are dead and anybody who's going to interest in it

now is dead is because of GDPR, which is the data protection regulations in this country. It'll be, chances are, because it's names and addresses or the name and address of the witness who made the statement. It'll be that information. that's being kept under wraps because now, you know, that kind of information is considered,

you know, really secret. You can't divulge it under very specific circumstances, and this isn't one of them. It's not considered to be under the national interest sort of thing, so it can't be released that way. There's a whole lot of reasons why it's kept under wraps. I used to work for our National Health Service in the UK. You know, there was stuff that we couldn't divulge to people unless under specific circumstances. So I'm sure there's similar laws regarding data operate in the United States and other countries around the world for people who are listening to this.

So there's reasons why that happens. It's a mundane explanation. I know people are thinking, oh, well, it's the photographs which are being kept in their wraps. No. The photographs are probably in circulation somewhere. Some people have seen them over the years, that much I know. But in terms of them coming to light, there'll be reasons why they haven't been officially released. But I guess in terms of a legal reason why you'd keep something under wraps until 2076, it's because of the names and addresses.

That's the only reason, unless there's some gigantic cover-up. But I'm pretty sure it's more just the fact that it's just the names and addresses. So unfortunately, 32 years later, that's where we are with this case. Now, in terms of what it was, which is a $64,000 question. I was just going to ask that too. Don't, don't break my heart here, Graham. I'm warning you. Chances are it's not a UFO.

In terms of a UFO because it's unidentified because nobody really knows what it is at the moment, yeah, okay, but it is probably some kind of secret US tech. The Harriers were probably escorting it. So, you know, people who are building their hopes up in terms of this being some wonderful, the best ever UFO case in Britain, probably not.

There's been, you know, there's some information out there to, that's already out there, depending on where you look, that suggests that the UK got in touch with the Pentagon straight afterwards to find out what was going on. And the Pentagon got in touch with the Britain to find out what was going on. And there might have been a bit of kind of argy-bargy in terms of who was to blame.

And maybe are you operating secret craft, you know, over our space? Or have you, Brits, got something that you're not telling us about, this kind of stuff going on? so I think there's a little bit of some secret kind of stuff going where if the Americans were testing something over UK airspace and they weren't telling us that would be a big, big problem

and if that was found out then oh yeah, they'd be hell to pay. It might have caused a bit of a kind of a bit of a stink against the respective militaries but it's all been smoothed out since then but we're talking before about craft not being unveiled after a certain period of time nobody's come forward from the Americans

to say, we've got this technology, but there could be reasons why they're not doing that for. But in terms of a more otherworldly explanation, I don't think so. Not in this particular case. It seems with everything that's got around it and this talk about this kind of interplay

between the Pentagon and the U.S. and some other things that there's probably a more rational explanation behind it. It's just that the fact that they're unwilling to actually Dyne Vulge, the technology that they've got in this particular platform. And bear in mind that two years later, off the West Coast of America, there were reports of this thing that were using a call sign called gas pipe,

which was coming in from high altitude and flying into landings, you know, hundreds of miles away, and it was dropping down like a stone, 5,000 feet a minute kind of thing. It was coming in from 80,000 feet, but it had a radio call sign. And then this thing that crashed at Boscombe down in 1994 on the runway, because it's nosewheel collapse or something, which may or may not be an AV-6, aerial vehicle six, the Astra prototype, which again

is a very, very secret Lockheed platform. Who knows what the Americans at that time were experimenting with and maybe still are, or maybe have tried, maybe it failed for some reason and they've shelved it and they've moved on to something even better. There's reasons why

they might keep the stuff under wraps. And of course, at the moment, all this stuff going on in Ukraine is the last thing they're going to do at the moment is tell people what they've got, because, you know, why would you in a situation like this? Absolutely. Well, you know what this kind of reminds me up to you? And this kind of relates to a question, Christopher Plain asked. Is it commonplace for US DOD to test tech in the UK? I just want to piggyback off of that by saying, you know, during the Rendezham Forest incident, whatever that craft was that landed in the forest and shot beams down into

the, you know, the weapon storage areas. The UK was not aware that the U.S. was housing nuclear ordinance at the base at the time. This was a secret we had that we put those weapons there. You know, I'm sure they had inklings that, yeah, of course, it's the Cold War. We got to have some sort of nuclear protection, but they had a ton of nuclear ordinance that they had somehow snuck into the, you know, the storage areas there. And, of course, those were the areas where this UFO supposedly was seen hovering over. And that seems to be a big reason why the Rundersham Forest case is such a big deal. And there was such a big cover up is not so much even the UFO per se.

It was the fact that we were against treaty at the time, the U.S., of having these weapons there. So I guess piggybacking off of that, Graham, why would the U.S. be testing something over in the U.K. during this time? I mean, we have such a good relationship with you guys there when it comes to military and intelligence with the Five Eyes. everything. Why would we be doing that? Is it because Calvin is such a remote area and where we wanted to test it out there? We got millions of remote areas in the US. We could have been doing this with. It's not really remote. That's the thing. On its own, Calvin is semi-remote, but in terms of Britain, but actually, there's no way in Britain which is really

remote in terms of airspace and in terms of population, there are people who live all over the place. So people would see it if it flew over. They might not report it, but they certainly see them. But they might mistake it if it's something else, who knows. The Americans have certainly tested secret technology in Britain. I mean, the stories of the F-1-17 flying into bases in Scotland during the 1980s before it was unveiled to the public. The stories of the B-2 being flown over UK airspace before it was unveiled as well. So no doubt other things will have been used in the UK airspace with or without our knowledge. UK have tested things out of a place called Wharton, which is in Lancashire, it's a British air, or used to be a British aerospace.

Now, B.A. Systems base where they've tested various craft over the years, some unmanned, some unmaned. So, yeah, things happen. Now, whether the question is whether or not, you know, prior notice was given, who knows, was the notice given somewhere, but it got forgotten about, or was it, did it go at the wrong place, or did the person who got it or the department who got it, not tell anybody else? You know, you just don't know, because all these kinds of and machinations never see the light of day, do they? So we may never get to know that part of the story. But it seems that there was some kind of battles and forwards about,

is this yours? No, is this yours kind of thing? Neither side seemed to know, whoever was doing the questioning, seemed to know whose it was. Now, maybe the wrong people were asking the questions to the wrong people as well. So, you know, it's one of those minefields. All we know is that a craft was seen. We know the rough dimensions and shape of it. and we know that there were aircraft involved with it.

But beyond that, we know very little. Now, the only people who were going to be able to tell that, if it is a US craft, are the Americans when they come clean about it. But if it turns out that's not the case, then all bets are off. And it could be something otherworldly. But I think at the time, there were all these other things being seen, both across your side of the pond and ours, that lead men, you know, people and other people like me,

to suspect that this was probably something, that the Americans just don't want to divulge at this particular time. Graham, what was the size again? Can you, did we like dimensions? Because I read that it was like 100 feet. But the reason why I asked that is because I'm curious to see what's in the data bank then. If we look at like this actually being US tech, then the question is around 90, you know, in the 90s up to 97. We look at all different types of crafts and shapes that we've seen in the states.

If this is American tech, then why aren't some of those then? as well within the same time frame. Yeah, there's no hard and fast estimate on how big it is. Again, it's one of these things that if you don't know what it is, you don't know how far away it is. And therefore, because you don't know how far away it is, you don't know how big it is. And that's something that's plagued UFO reporting since the 1940s.

Because, you know, if you've got a light or you've got a craft or a disc, but you don't know how big the disc is, it could be 10 feet away and be a meter across. you know, not mixing, measurement, but you know what I mean. Or it could be a mile away and it could be enormous or it could be 10 miles away and even bigger. So until you know what something is,

but if you look at an F-15, you would know roughly what the dimensions of an F-15 are. Therefore, wherever you see it, you know how far away it is. But with something you don't know what it is, it's almost impossible to try and work it out unless it's interacting with something. So unless you can see it directly over a bridge

or in front of a mountain where you know what the distance is, whereas in this particular case, it was in mid-air. Now, it may have been close enough that you get some sense of how big it is, and I think that's where the measurements come from. But in terms of being able to accurately say, look, it was 100 foot long or it was 50 feet long, I think that's still to be decided. That's fair, man. Yeah, Chrissy's reconnecting at the moment.

I hope she caught the end of your answer there. There you are. I love technology. It just keeps you. I cannot hear you. but I didn't hear the last word of that. Chris Plain says, was the Calvin incident more or less right after the Belgian wave?

It was actually in the middle of it. Right. It was 89 to 91-ish, the Belgian wave, and so it was slap-bang in the middle of it. And chances are, whatever was there in the Belgian wave may have been the same thing, or maybe something similar. Right, man.

And even looking at the rendering, again, I'll pull it up, you know, that's pretty, even if it's just a rendering, If this is based on an actual photo, that is pretty damn low to the ground. Very. So you do have to wonder during Belgian wave, this is early 90s, are we dealing with stealth technology? You know, low and quiet. That's what this thing screams to me. It was very low and it was possibly very quiet.

Stealth blimp technology maybe even. I don't know, I don't know. But I do find Chris's question interesting. Don't get me wrong. I'm not suggesting for a minute, it's definitely US tech because I'm not aware of anything they've got, which you can do the things that thing was reported to do, you know, hover in place for how many minutes and then shoot straight upwards. Right. I think he says like 10 minutes or something. Yeah. But at the same time, I can't rule it out either because we don't know what the capabilities are. It's one of those things where we're just in the dark with it. You know, it could be either. It could be something else entirely as well. So who knows.

But I think bear in mind the time and some of the things that we've seen at this. time, you know, I'm leaning towards it being something more mundane and something explainable in terms of U.S. technology. But I might be wrong on that. You know, I've been wrong before another thing, so I could be wrong on this. How dare you? How dare you? Well, kind of closing this part of it then, guys, what does Graham think about the prospect of the Phoenix Lights having been a huge V-shaped U.S. made dirigible? I mean, I've been doing a lot of digging lately into Phoenix Lights, which hopefully will make it to your television screen soon. I'll have more news on that.

But yeah, what do you think, Graham? Phoenix Lights. What are your thoughts on that incident? Again, it's one of the things that it's possible. And I'm not sure how remotely possible it is, but just saying that thing and how immense it was it's supposed to be, how large it was. And it was a V, wasn't it? It wasn't a triangle, if I'm right. So that seems unbelievable in terms of being able to construct something like that can fly.

And why would you have a dirigible, which is L-shaped or V-shaped? it doesn't make much sense. Fair enough. To me, anyway, I mean, I don't know other people. I might be completely wrong again, but it just seems that it's a very strange shape of a platform to have. But who knows, somebody might have come up with,

yeah, this is the best configuration for something that needs to do this job, and here we are. But, yeah, it could be something called it's completely different. Exactly, and we've got to keep in mind there were supposedly two different events that night. So which could have been the dirigible

and which couldn't have, or vice versa, who truly knows what we're dealing with. Sorry, Christy, please. No, I was just, no, I was just going to say. I'm like, isn't there a conversation, too, of a craft that was supposed to be a tech? You know, we're saying the Phoenix Lights was obviously anomalous, but there was supposedly American tech that did have a shape similar, I think, around the same time or a little bit before,

that they said that they were testing, and that was classified at one point in time. I forget the craft name, though. But, again, we don't know. That's why I was wondering about size and shape, because the first, thing that popped into my mind was the Phoenix Lights too. Interesting. Connections to be made always. I've got one question here from Twitter and then one starred to kind of wrap things up, guys,

if that's okay with you. Let me go back to the live chat. I'll just answer Chris's last question if I can please. He says, yeah, because the US Marine Corps operated Harris back then. They're 88. Interesting. Yeah, you know, that reminds me too of like, you know, the Tehran UFO incident.

The reason the U.S. was so interested in that event is because we were leasing our planes to Iran. So they wanted to know, what the hell is this thing that, like, jammed our radars and our communications. Right. Boom. Boom. Thank you. Thank you, Graham. I'm glad you said it.

Russia is kind of a hot, hot button issue right now. But we could talk about that on a separate occasion. Let's go to our starred question here to wrap things. I like this one. Eve asks, what does Graham think about the prospect? Oh, nope, that wasn't the one. I apologize. We already answered that. Christopher Plain, Graham, are there records of Nazi or

Japanese fighter pilots encountering foo fighters, or were they all from Western aviators? Anything in your research, touch on that? Fair enough. So if I had a pound for every time somebody said, the Germans saw them too, I'll be rich. However, I thought that too. Was I wrong?

Well, you're right and you're wrong. Okay. So effectively, when you look through the records, you can't find records in terms of what you can find out from the Americans and the British point of view. So there's not really squadron records or pilot testimony. There are a few isolated cases, but they lack in detail and they lack context. So they're very sparse in terms of numbers, but even sparse are in terms of detail when you do find them. So I do have some of these in the book in terms of German. pilots and cases from

German civilians on the ground seeing things during World War II. But the chapter's very brief because there simply aren't the cases. Now, you have to remember that after the war, the war itself wasn't a topic where the Germans wanted to discuss much, if ever. And also,

UFO uphology has been a bit of a minefield in Germany over the years. There are German researchers, but it's not something that's been taken entirely seriously across there. And And for what I'm aware, and I've asked this question of various people, and I haven't had much response, is that I don't see the German researchers trying to go through German records

in the same way I went through British and American ones to dig out the information from their own Luftwaffe records. Now, you have to remember that a lot of these records were destroyed in the end of the war by the Germans before the final surrender. So there are complete years, which are missing. But they must have records, and they certainly do have records of losses and operations, where anything like this probably would have been recorded. Now, I don't know what level they have, and I've seen some of it, but I'm not fluent enough in German to be able to understand it.

So, you know, the answer of that is I haven't come across it. Not many other people, as far as I'm aware, have more than a handful of reports, and what I could find have gone in there. You can see a newspaper sitting behind me over my shoulder there. That's actually a German UFO newsletter from the 1970s, and it has a case in there. That's why I obtained that.

That's the kind of level I had to go. go to to find some of these cases. It was going to some really obscure places to get the stories. But they can't be necessarily verified because I kind of corroborate them. So I had to put it like a caveat in the book saying, look, you know, some of these things are fairly vague. They're not the same level as the RF or the US Army Air Force kind of reporting. But yeah, as far as the Japanese go, it's exactly the same story. You know, the stories of, and there's photographs, which may or may not be true, which are probably fakes, showing Japanese aircraft in. in fairly close proximity to things

which are being called food fighters, which are probably blobs on the film in terms of photographic defects. But there's plenty of stories of American involvement with balls of fire, because that's what they called about in the Pacific. But that's not something I cover in the book, because the book's just about European side of things. I will

in the future, hopefully, write something about the Pacific side, because that's interesting as well. It is, yeah. No, I'm so happy you wrote the book. I mean, we see this phenomenon through such western eyes here in the United States that it's so refreshing for a book like yours to cover other areas and time periods of when these things have happened. So we get the fuller picture. And I didn't know that. So I'm glad you told me that. Christopher Plain said,

maybe it's the same people who deleted Elizondo's email. The thing is about the food fighters, everybody thought the food fighters, up until about the mid-1990s, thought it was just these like half a dozen cases that appeared in Joe Chamberlain's 1945 American Legion magazine article. And they'd been culled from the 415 Night Fighters Squadron in Eastern France. So that's why the UFO books didn't cover it in the 50s, 60, 70s, and 80s to any great degree because the information simply wasn't there. And for whatever reason, maybe it'd just be a lack of resources,

like a time, a lack of enthusiasm, people didn't contact the pilots beyond these few cases. Say, look, have you seen anything? You know, there wasn't that much information coming into the, into the newsletters and into UFO books. There just seemed to be the appetite. Everybody thought, oh, yeah, it started with Kenneth Arnold. But actually, when you look at the information, there's a lot more. People have dug into the, into the food fight art, you know, things since the mid-1990s.

People like Jean Alaric from Project 1947, from Jeff Linsell, he interviewed a lot of pilots before they died in the late 90s, early 2000s. Keith Chester wrote a book in 2007 called Strange Company, which I read and I enjoyed. It had a few errors in it, which I've corrected through this book. But ultimately, it's still a good read. The book I wrote, which, plug, plug, there, UFOs before Roswell, I dug a couple of hundred cases out of the RF records, which have never been in print before, which never been known.

And these happened over the Balkans in 1944. So it expands the area. there's cases in the book from before 1944 where the Americans coined the term in November in 1944 about the food fighters but actually those things were happening much earlier as early as 1942

the picture on the front of the book is a case where the crew of a Wellington bomber fired at a light and nothing happened you know so all this kind of stuff was happening the same kind of things the Americans were seeing later on the war where the food fighter name comes from seen much earlier

been seen over France Germany, but they've also been seen in the Balkans, they've been seen over northern Italy. People were seeing them over Scandinavia, over the Russian front, over the Bay of Biscay. So, yeah, you know, you name it, over Europe, and they were seeing them.

Awesome. And yeah, our most recent episode is somewhere in the skies covers UFOs in Scandinavia for anyone who hasn't heard it. We have a brilliant section narrated by Fred Anderson over in, I believe he is in Sweden.

So please check that out in the archives. Please check out Graham's book. But we have one last question that I want to ask of both of you, if that's okay. Is that all right, Chrissy? I know you got to get going. Okay, cool. I'll ask Graham first. This comes from Twitter.

TP on Twitter asks, if you could have witnessed any UFO encounter in history, which would you choose, Graham? What's the one you would have been doing, like to have been a part of? I think everybody would say Roswell because it's just so kind of out there in terms of all the bits and pieces that are associated with it, all the people who come forward and turned out to be hoaxes,

and then all the other information that's where it sort of suggests that there's something going on. But actually, that's not the one I'm going to mention. The one I'm going to mention is the Thomas Mantell incident from 1948, the one where he was supposedly chased Venus to his death, the one where he's alleged to a ran out of oxygen by chasing this object, that his squadron mates turned back because that they couldn't fly so high and he just kept on going and flew to 20,000 feet and maybe more

in search, in chasing an object and then die these aircraft crash and he died. I would love to know, not necessarily be in the aircraft and me die, but I'd like to know what he was chasing. You know, I'd like to be there on the spot and see what the controllers could see from the tower at Godden Field that they could see themselves, what the people in the towns nearby who had seen this object

at different points of the district, day were seeing for themselves as well. And what the astronomer who was down in Nashville that saw this object fly of the report as a balloon, what they saw as well. So there's all these different elements of this story, which was an amazing story. But unfortunately, you know, ended with the death of the pilot. So that would be one that would look at and think, I would like to have been a fly in the wall there and seeing what actually went on. At first, I didn't think it was real. I woke up to this blinding light and I was transported to another place. Pluto TV.

Then I heard a voice. Come with me if you want to live. There were thousands of movies and shows, and they were all free. The truth is our city. It's just so beautiful. On Pluto TV, free streaming of Terminator 2, Fringe Arrow, the 100 NX files may cause excitement, loss of sleep and sudden belief in extraterrestrials. No credit cards or alien encounters necessary. Pluto TV, stream now, pay never.

I love it. I love it. Yeah, and I do want to mention thank you, Disclosure Team Vinny, for the Superstress. or he is in Locknest right now, visiting us, taking a little break to come say hi to us. So hi, Benny. Hi, Dan. I know you guys are doing some awesome work out there.

So thanks, guys. Thanks for hopping and saying hello. We certainly appreciate it. Chrissy, same question. Which UFO event would you like to have witnessed in history? Perspective is, I think, is the, any pilot perspective, I would love to see. But I have, too. I'm like for sure like everyone's going to laugh.

But Phoenix lights to me, I love motherships. I just find them fascinating. So I would have loved to be underneath that looking up. I remember the perspective and I think the perspective of I was a mother and a daughter driving on the highway before the craft went into Phoenix and they were driving underneath it. And they were looking up and they could, they were so close that they could see them being like metallic. So I think for that.

But my favorite story that has a UFO attachment to it is the aerial school event. The area school incident to me is I just, those children, you know, a mass sighting with a UFO with an experience as well, in contact experience. I think to me that is unbelievable. I would like to hear more stories coming out of Africa in different countries there. We don't hear enough of them. And I think that at some point we will. You know, I know Randall Nickerson is working on that now in his movie that's coming out shortly. So I'm, yeah, I think Ariel School for sure is one of my favorites.

It's just, it's such an amazing story with a group of children. I would have to agree with you. I think that would be the one I would like to have been involved with as well. Mainly because there were enough other people there that I wouldn't be as scared. I think I would want to be part of a mass UFO sighting rather than some mothership experience by myself. My rather dramatic UFO setting with my father was enough for me in one lifetime. So I'm okay not having a UFO setting ever again,

but if I were to, I think it would be Ariel School. Like you said, just so many credible witnesses involved, some of which I've interviewed here on the show, who some 30 plus years later still stick to the story as it was that very day and how much the event impacted their lives and changed their lives. Again, that's what I'm about here at someone in the skies is how these events change people and, you know, the aftermath of an event. Like, how do you go on after that after having your entire world turned upside down and whatnot? It's crazy. It's absolutely crazy.

So that's a good choice. That's a good choice. Well, Graham, before we let you go, man, and thank you so much for your time. We kept you a little over what I promise. Tell us a little, if you can, about the new project you are working on, and when can we expect it? I know that's a hard question to answer, and authors hate getting that question, but when do we get in the new damn book? Well, you should ask Dan and Ulaf that question because they're finishing off the artwork for it, as I've seen. Really? Okay.

So when that's done, it's out. Perfect. Okay. We're like, get on it, Dan. Yeah. Pressure it on you guys. You've heard it now. We know.

I know. I don't pressure people. I always said, look, you know, I said to the person who's written the forward, you know, you can get it to me when you can. And actually, they've provided that. So that's out of the way. And the last thing is the artwork. But I'll see, Dan's been busy with his Columbia project.

And he's now just been up to. Boskin House up near Loch Ness for Alastair Crowley, doing a documentary with Vinny and some other people regarding that. So, you know, that's taking each time as well. So I understand why it's taken a little bit longer. But they assured me that they'll have it, you know, to me shortly. So

that's wonderful. And as soon as I get it, it'll be out. It's not on the Foo Fighters. That's all I'm about to say. Because I don't want to be called Mr. Food Fighter. I don't want to be typecast. So it's got an aviation element to it. That's all I'll say. But it's definitely more

kind of in the style of the food in terms of how much depth I go into and the kind of resourcing of information that can back up what I'm saying. I remember books I used to read in the late 70s, in the early 80s when I was growing up when I was first into the UFO hobby

and a lot of it didn't have any adoration whatsoever. So it was a case of well, how do I know what the hell have you got this information from? It's almost like you could have just made this up. And I hated that kind of thing and I vowed that if I ever which I never thought I would, but I've ever wrote a book myself, I would make sure that it was kind of, you know, sort of footnoted to the nth degree so that people couldn't

turn around five years later. You say, Graham, I think you've just made that up. You know, so. So that's how I'm willing. That's why your first book is about 30 pounds, I think. Yeah. It's a weapon. Oh, yeah. It's a weapon. Oh, yeah. It's, it's thick. You know, it can do some damage with that. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. Oh, man, I can't wait. I can't wait for that. Again, pressure's on Dan and Olaf. Get working. Um, but other than that, Where can we find everything you're up to? Well, just contact me on Twitter. It's the best way, because that's where I announce everything nowadays.

I live on Twitter, apparently. So it's at Border 750. That's how you can get in touch me. So the last, I joined UAP Media, UK, 12 months ago. And it's been a bit of a roller coaster ride since then. Before that, I was just somebody sort of shouting into the wilderness. And I was putting a few things out there, but not really getting anywhere. And since I joined that, it's just been a kind of,

wow, you're kind of right. I keep getting imposter syndrome. I really do. I keep thinking, you know, I'm one these days, people are going to find me out, you know,

sort of thing. You and me both. I think of some kind of fraud. I generally have a kind of less kind of like, fear sometimes with people thinking, you don't know what you're talking about, Graham. So every time I release something,

every time I post something, it's all, what's the reaction going to be? Yeah, I'm also a little bit, I'm really kind of this little coward in this kind of extrovert exterior.

But I'm grateful to everybody who support me, everybody who made time for me, everybody like yourself who's inviting me on their podcast and discuss the book and who's bought it and who's shared it and who's appreciated it. So, you know, thank you to everybody. It's wonderful. And it just inspires me to do more and more information and to support people like you for the work that you two do as well. So, yeah, it's wonderful.

It's a great community of this. And I'm so pleased I'm a little bit, a little bit. part of it. I think you're more than a little bit part of it. I was just going to say. Authors are such a major part. Such a major part. Graham, we are beyond honored to have you in this field and you are essential and you're doing amazing work. So we have to thank you for coming on somewhere in the skies and for dedicating your time to this topic that Christy and I both feel could truly change the

world if we ever fully understood it, which we might never. But I think the journey is rewarding enough. And you are, you are a big part of that. So thank you for joining us on Summer in the Skies. And we will talk soon, man, for sure. Thanks, guys. Awesome. Take care. Bye. Bye. Wow, Chrissy. We'll have just a quick debrief here. That was amazing. Again, we didn't really plan a ton with Graham because we knew once we got him on, like he would just have a wealth of information. So I got to thank you for also taking the time today. I know it's a little impromptu. Andy, again, is under the weather for those tuning in.

Andy from that UFO podcast was going to be joining us, but he's not feeling too good. So we are sending him our absolute best. He's a busy, busy dad, and it doesn't surprise me that his immune system finally shut down. So Andy's sending you our best, my man. But, Christy, before we go, what are you up to? Any news you can share with us about stuff? you're doing and where can we find everything.

Yeah, for sure. Interviews that I'm, yeah, I'm like working. It should be releasing a new interview next week. So I'm working on that. If it still goes, I won't say fully what it will be about. Just booking, booking for us, booking for you. And just excited and working on stuff with the debrief. Lots of fun stories.

I think I'll just say people hopefully take a, just keep watching for the next little bit. I think we'll have some great UFO stories that will be coming out and just information tech, defense. Tim is doing an amazing job covering the war right now. So if you're interested in that, please just go to the deeproof.org and follow us. And obviously Christopher Plain is still here. Hey, Chris, he always does amazing work too

and have some good stuff coming out soon as well. Absolutely. And you were amazing in getting us another interview with Avi Loeb, who will be interviewing very soon. So guys, if you want, we still are open to listener questions for Avi. We got a ton. So hopefully we'll get to some of them. But yeah, feel free to reach out to me or Chrissy and throw us your questions for Avi Loeb.

We'll be talking about Galileo. We'll be talking about some recent articles he's done over at the debrief and everything in between, you know, the latest findings from what is it? The Hubble and also what's the other one? James Webb Telescope. Totally blacked. There's so many of them now. Yeah, even Avi Logue did a lip lecture recently and did some updates. I watched that.

So we'll talk to him about updates on the Galileo project, but he spoke there in the lecture. So I'm excited for that. I love Avi and I love his work. So I'm excited to see what's, yeah, what he has planned in the next little bit that's coming out. So it's exciting. Awesome. Yeah. All right, Christy.

Well, I know you are a busy person. You've got some meetings to get to. So I'm going to talk shop a little bit with the folks here. but I want to thank you again for hopping on today and all your insights on all this. So we will definitely talk soon, probably within the next couple hours. I see it a little bit. Okay, bye guys. Take care.

My special thanks to Graham and to Chrissy for joining us today. This is so much fun. We went almost 40 minutes over what I promised these two, so I have to thank them for their time. I want to thank all of you for sticking with us and watching. I want to thank everyone who gave the super stickers and super chats. Really appreciate it. Really, really appreciate it. Hello to Dave Altman.

I'm sorry, I didn't see your message there, man. We got Dan Zetterstrom here. Hit the like. Eve says, yes, please. Share the video. Like the video. Subscribe to the channel. If you are not already, we would certainly appreciate that.

Thanks to Christopher Plain, BB, Jesse. I know Jay Faye is here. Everybody. Everybody. Thank you. John as well. Jim, Robert Chaffee. Thank you, guys.

I really appreciate all of your support, as usual. The last thing I want to share with you guys, Hello, Jesse as well, is some conferences I have coming up. Live conferences are back, and I am so excited to be finally getting out there and giving some new lectures that I've been working on recently. So the first one I have is going to be coming to you in August,

and that is the inaugural Strange Tales Midwest Conference on the Unknown. which is going to be in Cape Charoardo, Missouri, where a very famous UFO crash landing occurred. So definitely I'm going to touch on that in my talk and everything in between. And I do have to thank Michael Huntington, who's really at the forefront of this conference, putting it together, finding the speakers, incredible list of speakers coming to you guys, including Micah Hanks and Michael as well and a bunch of others as well. So that's going to be coming to you August 5th through the 7th. You can learn more at, I believe it is, let me get this right,

cape slash events.com slash paranormal. You can learn more. I'll have links in the show notes as well for you to check that out. And then the second event I'm going to be speaking at is the Michigan UFOCon, which I had the pleasure of doing a few years ago. And that's going to be September 23rd, excuse me, September 23rd through the 24th in Houghton Lake Michigan. and I'm going to be given to talk all about the crazy stuff that's happened in Michigan in terms of UFOs, personal cases that I've investigated, and famous historical things that have happened there as well, including things with Gerald Ford and obviously Jay Allen Heineck and Swamp Gas and everything in between.

So I hope you can join me in Missouri at the Strange Tales Midwest Conference of the Unknown, their first event, which is going to be really cool, August 5th through the 7th. And then again, Michigan UFOCon, September 23rd through the 24th. Again, I want to thank everyone in the chat for joining us tonight. I want to thank our guest, Graham, my co-host, Chrissy, and everyone who supports the show, whether it's through super chat, super sticker, or Patreon as well. If you do want to become a Patreon member, we have tons of bonus content and interviews and stuff like that. Over there, you get early editions of the show as well every week. you can go to patreon.com slash some more skies.

I'm going to play a promo for the Patreon right after this. And yeah, would love to have you guys over there as well and join in on the bonus fun content we got. But that is it for tonight, guys. Thank you so much for spending your Sunday evening or morning with us. I really do appreciate it.

And stay tuned for our interview with Avi Loeb coming to you on the 14th. That will be a live stream. We hope you'll join us as well for that. There'll be links to that on Twitter and in the show notes. And other than that, as usual, keep your feet on the ground, but never stop searching somewhere in the skies. Have a great night, guys. We'll talk soon. Keep looking up.

Somewhere in the Skies is produced by Third Kind Productions in association with the Entertainment One Podcast Network.