Somewhere in the Skies - Fear and Loathing on the Trail of the Saucers

Episode Date: March 12, 2018

On episode 47 of SOMEWHERE IN THE SKIES, Ryan speaks with Bryce Zabel, television/film producer and writer. They discuss his recently released alternate history novel, Once There Was a Way: What if the Beatles Stayed Together? We know The Beatles let it be, but what if they worked it out instead? It's a great new adventure full of twists and turns that never were, but might have been. Then, Zabel brings us down the fascinating trail he's traveled in the worlds of ufology and Hollywood and where they often intersect. After his recent talk at the International UFO Congress, Zabel navigates the crazy maze of UFOs and where he stands on the way we perceive both the phenomena and the often divisive study of it. We then get a sneak peek at some of his UFO films and television projects in development, including exclusive news on a very well known actor who recently signed on to play a major role in one of the projects. Guest Bio: A winner of the prestigious Writers Guild award for screenwriting, Bryce Zabel has created and produced five primetime television series, including Dark Skies and The Crow, and worked on a dozen TV writing staffs (Lois & Clark, Taken). A produced feature (Atlantis, Mortal Kombat) and miniseries writer (Blackbeard, Pandemic), Bryce’s latest film, The Last Battle, will be shot by StudioCanal next year in Europe. He  was the first writer since Rod Serling elected to serve as Chairman/CEO of the Television Academy. He has taught screenwriting as an Adjunct Professor at the USC School of Cinematic Arts, reported on-air as a CNN correspondent, and won multiple awards for investigative reporting for PBS. His Breakpoint alternate history book series is the winner of the Sidewise Award. Currently, he is developing Unidentified, about the race to break the Roswell story, and Captured, about the Betty and Barney Hill abduction. His book, A.D. After Disclosure, with Richard Dolan, was the first book devoted exclusively to the Disclosure topic. His work can be found at www.brycezabel.com Patreon: www.patreon.com/somewhereskies Official Store: CLICK HERE Website: www.somewhereintheskies.com Order Ryan's Book by CLICKING HERE Twitter: @SomewhereSkies Instagram: @SomewhereSkiesPod Opening Theme Song, "Ephemeral Reign" by Per Kiilstofte SOMEWHERE IN THE SKIES is produced by Third Kind Productions, in association with eOne Entertainment Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/somewhere-in-the-skies. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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live only on Netflix. Saturday, May 16th at 9 p.m. Eastern Center time, 6 p.m. Pacific Time. Fortunately for all of us, the original sinners of the UFO age are all dead and buried now. Six feet under their lies and deceptions. There was no magic in their magic 12. just another grotesque reversion of the American victory over Adolf and his bootlickers.

All that deception worked for D-Day, so why not Roswell and Saccoro and Rendell Sham? And even D.C. itself, and those 10,000 other times, we've seen what's impossible with our own eyes? And what about poor Betty and Barney, Travis, Whitley, and those two good old boys from Basca Gula? And everybody else who had their backsides probed and DNA filched and gutted. God knows what else. Oh, right, it's classified. Need to know. Sorry, but no cold E.D. Unobtanium alloy gets my sperm. When there are women like that blonde barista who could do the job, and I'll even make the mocha in the morning. Now we sit around and we wait for capital of D disclosure so we can finally figure out whether we're coming or going. And every year we get that feeling

that our dog just died. There's a new generation of weasels with their reverse engineered rocket packs, still hiding a reality, more twisted than I ever saw an acid, except for that time in war as, which I've taken an oath, not to reveal that I hold as sacred as anything they've taken in their underground bunkers. Those bloodsuckers treat the truth like it's their own personal property, like their Bentleys and their yachts and their mutual funds. A saucer could be camped out on your front yard tomorrow, but they still trot out their Donald Menzels and Philip Classes, their sagans and shoesticks, and Tyson's, and other yapping hyenas,

to tell us that the universe is probably teeming with life, but those supposedly brilliant ETs from Alpha wherever couldn't possibly be here. For the rest of us, the going's gotten weird, and it's time for us to turn pro. Buy the ticket, take the ride. Grab at that steaming mud pie, we call the truth, whatever god-awful insanity it may bring with it.

Meanwhile, just get me a case of wild turkey and Harley. I hear there's a crop circle not too far from here. This is Somewhere in the Skies with Ryan Sprague. Welcome to Somewhere in the Skies. I'm your host, Ryan Sprague. When I was a kid, I remember watching for the very first time, a serious and in-depth movie that asked the question. What if the government were able to use an...

alien abductee as bait to capture the captor. And what happens when we discover the true meaning behind the aliens visitations and subsequent abductions of humans around the world? This film was official denial, written by Bryce Sable and the first sci-fi channel original movie. Zabel went on to create the cult classic NBC television series Dark Skies, which weaves in alternate history where JFK's assassination was due to a shadowy cabal bent on keeping the truth about UFOs and aliens from the public at any cost, even the life of a U.S. president. It was clear Zabel had an interest in UFOs, but it clearly stretched far beyond a mere interest.

He navigated a trail for almost three decades, heavily researching the UFO topic, both with an open mind and, a healthy dose of skepticism. Today, we discussed that journey, including updates on some of Bryce's UFO films and TV projects in development. We then discuss where we're heading in 2018 and beyond, with old UFO enemies, new UFO revelations,

and a future of possible disclosures, both scary and exciting. This is fear and loathing on the trail of the saucers. Bryce, thank you, so much for joining me today on Somewhere in the Skies. I like to be anywhere, but somewhere in the skies is a good place to be. Absolutely, man. It's my motto. I live by it, and it's been a crazy journey so far. But you, my friend, have been on a crazy journey as of late as well. You are doing so many different things. And of course, this is a UFO show. But before we even, before we

get into that, Bryce, the other exciting reason I wanted to bring you on today, man, is because you recently came out with a new book on a band that is near and dear to many, many hearts, including my own. You know, I used to go to Strawberry Fields almost every day after work. And that book is, once there was a way, what if the Beatles stayed together? Wow, man. It was so much fun to write that because I always tell people, I hope that they enjoy spending some extra time with the Beatles as much as I did, because it was a joy to write.

you're talking about my breakpoint book series, which is a what-if series. The very first one I wrote was called Surrounded by Enemies. What if Kennedy survived Dallas? And it won the Sidewise Award for Alternate History, which was very cool. And it got me a publisher saying, why don't you do that again? And I thought, well, JFK is pretty damn iconic. What would match him? And I thought definitely the Beatles would match JFK.

So I spent some time writing this book, and it's a what-if novel, I guess. It's not a nonfiction book speculating about it. It tells it from the point of view of a Rolling Stone-style magazine that I call Rockstar. And Rockstar is looking back at those years of maximum danger for the Beatles from, say, 1968 to 1975, when they managed to stay together. Now, of course, your listeners are saying, but they didn't stay together. They broke up in 1969 and 1970, and I say, that's in our timeline they did. but this book is that alternate universe, the one where the Beatles stayed together in. And it gave me a chance to tell a story that I thought was realistic and credible.

I didn't go for time travel, didn't try to make it magic. There's no portal in the back of the building. It's just as if this is the world you live in and you're reading their history about the world's greatest rock band. By the way, if you think about it, the Rolling Stones are still playing together right now. you can go buy Rolling Stone tickets right now. They were contemporaries of the Beatles. So it isn't as crazy as you might think that the Beatles could have still stayed together and be playing even today.

Absolutely, man. And there's something to be said about that. When a band can, you know, span decades and continue to do it, you got to wonder, what are they doing right? And whatever it is, you know, rock and roll is here to stay. And I think this is, I think you've been up a good point that there's no device in this book. it's not time travel it's you know it's considered you know an alternate history you know a parallel universe as it were but i think you know just throwing us in there and just saying what if i think that's really interesting

and that what if is a topic we talk about a lot on this show it's really fun i think writing these things to throw the reader into the deep end of the pool and let them sink or swim with it and and i think most people are swimming the results i get from people are that we live in a world that's a little tense right now, what with Trump and international relations and gun violence. And thinking about the Beatles staying together and continuing to make music for basically 50 more years is just one of the great smiles that you can possibly have. And the readers seem to be saying that they enjoyed taking a little vacation and listening to it, which is not to say the book is conflict-free.

It's not at all. It's all about all the things that were difficult things for the Beatles to overcome, that they did not overcome in our timeline, but with a slightly different take on things, they might have in another world, in another way. And so that's why there is once there was a way. There was a way back in 1969, 70, 71, 72, where the Beatles could have made some slightly different choices,

tweak things a little differently, and managed to continue to still make music as a band. I just want to tell people if they want to read the book for themselves, it's always a great price at Amazon, and we have a link at Amazon beetles.com, but the thing I'm really proud about is Whalesompeda website called What If Beatles.com that gives people all these Easter eggs and chance to see albums that never were

and consider things like that, and it's very fun. So I hope people will enjoy the book. That's why I wrote it. And as you know, you're a UFO show primarily, and I know a lot about UFOs. But there is even a Beatles connection to UFOs. John Lennon saw a UFO in 1974. Up there, I saw a UFO in 1974.

Up there, I saw a UFO, and it went down the river, turned right at the United Nations, turn left, and then down the river. It wasn't a helicopter, and it wasn't a balloon, and it was so near. And you look what sort of round, white, reminiscent, and silent. Silent, and it looked dark, like black or gray in the middle, and had white lights just looked like light bulbs, you know, just going off on, off, on, blink, blink, blink, blink, round the bottom, and on top was a red light.

And he was outspoken on the subject of disclosure. He thought that it needed to happen. And when it did happen, he thought that it was going to rock the world. It would shake people out of their lives and make them think about the larger considerations in life. So, yeah, the Beatles are what I parked my brain in for a while, but I haven't stopped parking it and the rest of the topic of UFOs in general. Save now at Whole Foods Market. It's the summer splash event with great everyday prices on 365. Five brand ground beef for the grill and ice cream for dessert.

They have yellow sales signs on ready to cook beef or chicken kebabs too. Level up with savory marinate, spices and rubs, and complete your cookout with a crowd-pleasing cherry pie and their balsamic chicken salad. Available at the prepared foods counter. Get Summer Splash Savings now at Whole Foods Market. Absolutely, man. Well, I think you've earned those two parking spaces for sure. I appreciate it. Because the truth is, I am not a uphologist who writes.

I'm a writer who knows something about uphology. I'm not, I guess, the most informed guy on the topic, although I'm better informed than most people. But I still do other things. I write television and film, and I just thought I would try my hand at writing novels a few years ago or books. The first book I wrote, by the way, was a UFO book. It was called AD After Disclosure, which I co-wrote with Richard Dolan, who I do think. is one of the best informed people in the entire world on this subject, and it was a joy to work with him. But the reason you write books, if you're a television or feature writer as I am, you write them because they're underlying rights, their IP, intellectual property.

But the difference is, instead of me having to go out and option somebody else's rights, I've created my own rights, which is kind of helpful. If you think about it, I hope someday that Breakpoint, which is the title of the book series, will also be the title of a television. series. And one season could be about JFK surviving Dallas. Another season could be about the Beatles continuing to play together for years to come. And seasons beyond that would explore other what-if. So that's my hope. That's my dream. We'll see if it happens. Oh, absolutely, man. I mean, you look at the anthology television structure now, and I think people really enjoy that, you know, seeing like these alternate histories, you know, maybe perhaps with the same actors in every season, which is always kind of cool to see, stretch their acting muscles. But,

That is true, although between the world of JFK and the Beatles, if I'm going to make a television series about the Beatles, I'm going to need to hire four actors that are terrific Beatles in their own right who can also play music and have to perform together. I don't know that they'll be applicable across the line, but I mean, it is very much the truth of a limited series that one season can be different than the other, and they're all united under the umbrella of whatever the general theme of the series is. And I just got tired. I mean, look, I'm a fan of men in the high castle, but asking what would have happened if the Nazis had won World War II or if the Confederacy had won the Civil War has been done many times in my view at this point. So I've tried to focus on some of these what ifs where I hadn't heard them before. And I, like for the Beatles, for example, I've heard people talk about it. People make their own little set lists and things like that. But nobody in an organized way had really said, I'm going to write.

a bona fide novel about this. At least I couldn't find one that I liked. And so I said, I better write it myself. That way I can read it. So that's what I've done. Well, I did want to bring up one of those connections that you make in the book, Bryce, before we move on to UFOs, one that I found really interesting. Again, I love the website that you guys created for it.

I did get it on Amazon. Great price. So definitely listeners, check that out. Even if you're not a fan of the Beatles, this book is so engaging that, like, You want to follow that. And one of those storylines... Wait a minute. There are people out there who aren't fans of the Beatles.

You know what? I know one and she's in the other room, so we'll be quiet right now. Of course. But and by the way, that's totally fine. And I think you're right. You don't write a book just for fans, nor did I write it as a fan. Although I am one, I did not write it that way. I tried to be a little more hard-nosed about the whole thing.

Anyway, go ahead with your question. I cut you off. Oh, not at all, my man. It was the FBI connection with Lenin. I found that extremely fascinating. This is something in the real universe we live in here. And something that you continued in the book. Would you mind possibly going into that a little bit for us?

One of the things I try to do is I try not to make up too many things out of whole cloth. I try to extend things that we know were plausible in our universe because either happened to the subject or to someone else. And in the real world that we lived through in the 70s, most people now know, but John Lennon was the definite target of FBI harassment and INS harassment, so ordered by the Nixon administration. And this has all been proven, of course, in the declassified documents that have come out. And it really was a very troubling time for John Lennon and Yoko Ono, and it was very difficult on them. My feeling was this, if Lennon had continued to play with the Beatles and was not only a solo, act at that point, then the firepower of the Nixon administration would have also been trained by a feeling of guilt by association on the entire Beatles. So the group itself would have

suffered some of the same intense obstacles that the FBI and Ionists threw at John Lennon. And that makes for some really interesting conflict in a world where John Paul, George, and Ringo are all considered to a greater or lesser degree enemies of the state of the United States of America. And I don't think it's implausible at all. The other thing I did, and I won't go into too much detail because this is part of the fun of it, but we all recall that in 1974, Patty Hurst was kidnapped. And so we know that famous people could get kidnapped back then for political purposes by radical political groups. So I've toyed with that a little bit too.

It's awesome. Again, like taking real history and infusing it into this is what makes it most engaging and finding those. You know, what really happened? What if? What if? I love it. I absolutely love it. The thing that's fun for me, Ryan, is that I've had people literally a lot of people tell me, man, I mean, it was a great book.

I really enjoyed it, but I had to keep stopping and look up things because I couldn't tell what was real and what wasn't. And to me, that's the highest compliment where I'm able to weave things that might have been but never were into a storyline about things that were. In fact, if you want people to sort of fall into the rabbit hole and enjoy the alternate history experience, the best thing you can do is serve up some very credible history. The only thing I would say is my father who has passed on, but he was a high school history teacher. And if he was around and read those books now, he'd be rolling over. Well, he wouldn't be around. he'd be, he's probably rolling over in his grave right now saying, what have I done to my son? Oh, man.

But that's kind of the fun of it. And the only odd issue is creating alternate history when Donald Trump is telling the world that everything is fake news. I really don't want to give aiding comfort to that thinking, but it's alternate history. It's fun. It's across another universe. Absolutely, man. And in today's world, the lines of truth are being blurred every day. I don't even know where to go with that.

But the fact that you're finding these topics that are both engaging and can actually not distract us, but can make us remember better times in our history through music. I think that's very, that's what we need right now. I'll leave it at that in terms of politics. Thanks for your generosity in talking about the book right now. And I'm happy to talk about anything else you want to talk about. Absolutely, man. And you are a man of many hats. And the other reason I wanted to bring you on, obviously, UFOs, a subject you're quite familiar with.

So, you know, before we even get into the Watts, I'd love to know why you got involved with UFOs, Bryce. If you could maybe give us a little bit of that journey. I mean, official denial, for one, is one of the first UFO-related things I'd ever seen on television and got me interested, starring Parker Stevenson. And then obviously, we have your other big breakout television. series. So yeah, how did you first get involved in the UFO topic? It's an interesting story and what's what I think is also true is that every one of your listeners and yourself have your own interesting story. It's sort of like when did somebody become a Beatles fan? Well, everybody's got a different story and when did somebody cop to UFOs? Everybody has that story. Mine goes like this. I literally

grew up in Oregon and my family moved there in 1950, which I wasn't born yet, But they moved there in 1950 and lived right next to where the Trent saw that UFO in McMinville. So we were in that local neighborhood. And then as I was growing up, I think it was Walpole, might be Walport, the UFO cult that was on the coast there for a while. So UFOs were kind of sort of this weird thing that you sort of heard a little bit about. Like everybody, I paid a little attention. I remember Interrupted Journey was on the book club that my mother got. And I read some other things.

I didn't really think too much about it. But when I became a screenwriter here in Hollywood, I was looking around for, I wanted to write a spec script, and I wanted it to be full of conflict and mystery and suspense. And I had read Whitley Streber's communion a few years earlier. And so I knew something about the abduction phenomenon. And a great what if came to me. So we're talking about what ifs. This is what the what if for me was what if the government had targeted Whitley Streber knowing he was. was really being abducted and covertly wired up his house. So the next time he got abducted,

they could dispatch the planes and chase down a UFO and possibly shoot it down. So that became the what if that led to a script that became the movie that you've talked about, official denial. Official denial was the first original film written for the sci-fi channel, now sci-fi. And I was lucky enough to write it. And it got produced in 1993. So we're looking at. And we're literally celebrating my 25th year, if you will. I don't know if you celebrate these things, but it's 25 years since I had something produced in the UFO genre. And I did it because it was an interesting storyline for me. And so I started reading widely and collecting books and reading and reading. And the more I read, the more I said, wow, there's a lot of smoke

here. I bet there's some fire too. So it was not like I've ever seen a UFO and I haven't been abducted and I haven't had an experience like that. But I know a lot of people who have. And I've read a lot of credible reports by pilots and journalists, et cetera. And I've come to believe that, you know, this is an issue that was basically ignored by my father's generation and ridiculed and denied by my generation. And it's time for the new generation to get some recognition that this is really happening. And I think it is happening right now. I think we are starting to recognize that. So it's very exciting time.

2018 is an important moment for us. And just to finish my own little trip down memory lane of uphology, because I had, I learned one really strong lesson from official denial. It was a great script, but not the world's best movie. I learned one strong lesson. Do not put a 12-year-old ballerina in a rubber suit to be an alien. Oh, no. That just did not work. So a few years later, with my writing partner, Brent Friedman at the time, we created a show called Dark Skies for NBC.

We got a lot more money. We got something close to $50 million to do a season's worth of episodes. And we turned dark skies into the most subversive show that I think this ever been on TV because we did a pilot episode that said John Kennedy was killed because he was going to tell the truth about UFOs in his second term. And the entire series took place in the 1960s and did exactly what we were talking about for the Beatles book where it winds things that we know from one world into another world. So for dark skies, it was winding euphologically.

events into historical events from the 60s. 1947, Roswell, New Mexico, an event takes place that will change history forever. They have carnival power with a deadly ultimatum. They just demanded our unconditional surrender. Now the battle has begun. We're about to bet the entire human race. And so has the cover up. I am nothing but a figment of your imagination because this incident never happened.

And I've just kept out it since then. I have other projects in development now, and of course I speak about it and I talk about it and I think about it like a lot of people. And it's just something that has fascinated me and I think we're on the verge of big change. Absolutely. And that sort of ties into a speaking engagement you just gave, Bryce. What, a week ago, no? You're talking about the IUFOC, which my speech was on day one, which happened to be Valentine's Day. So I just want to paint a picture for you.

I had to say to my wife, honey, I have a great idea for Valentine's Day. Let's go to Phoenix and go to a UFO conference. And so you can imagine that wasn't exactly the strongest romantic pitch I've ever made in my life, but she came with me. And I did. I spoke at the I UFOC just a couple of weeks ago. Yeah, well, I am with you on that, man. I spoke last year on the same day, my girlfriend came, and I'm in the same boat with you, brother.

I know what it's like, and it's good to have supportive people. We are bonded by our Valentine's Day massacres. Fantastic. It's what the holiday was meant for. Yeah. Well, I'll tell you, so she said, well, that's okay. We'll go out to dinner. And I said, actually, there's the speaker's dinner.

So I really can't. So, yeah, I'm still making it up to her, but that's good. It's all good. Yep. Well, trust me, you'll be making it up for a while. Okay. Thank you for that piece of advice. You're welcome.

Well, I'd love to hear about how the Congress runs. Bryce. I'm curious about your thoughts about it. How were you able to see any of the speakers? What was your talk in particular about? And how was the reception to everything that I would imagine the whole week is just a flurry of information? I wanted to make a different kind of statement. I've been to enough conferences, spoken at a few, listened to a lot of speakers. And while I'm not trying to put anybody down, there is a same old, same old aspect to it. If you go to a lot of them, you do hear a lot of the same take. And the thing is, I'm a former journalist. I was a CNN correspondent at one time in my life. And I'm also now, I guess, a dramatist and an entertainer. And I thought, I ought to bring that

aspect of it into my conference speech. So I literally went for it. I believe you should go past the edge if you can. So I tried to. I came up with a conference title for my speech called Fear and Loathing on the trail of the saucers, which is kind of an homage to Hunter S. Thompson and his Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas and Fear and Loathing on the campaign trail, because I think Fear and Loathing describes a lot of what uphology has been over the years that I've been involved in it. And I tried to look at it a little bit from the point of view of what would Hunter say? You know, here's a man who didn't suffer fools easily, a man who could see through nonsense when it was presented to him. And I I'm not defending his drug use or anything like that, but I am defending his honest journalism,

his attempt to lay out the truth as he saw it. So I kind of leaned into that and tried to take some stands and tried to make it entertaining and try to convey that we have some obligations as individuals that go beyond simply putting our bottoms in a chair and listening to people. We have got to be reaching out to our friends and neighbors in different ways than we have in the past. And it's also time, frankly, for all the posers and the fakers to stop. It's time for them to not do this anymore. We have got to be more credible. It's time to get serious.

And so for people that are, you know, we need to ignore the people who are making stuff up. And we need to focus on the people who are reporting actual. facts and that's just where I come at it. I'd have to agree, Bryce. I mean, I spend every episode trying to, you know, weed through the disinformation, the charlatans. And of course, with a topic as sensitive as this, like, you're going to have those people who glom on take advantage of believers and do that. I mean, this happens, you know, in any other field as well. But not not quite as vividly as it does in ours. Look, I'm an entertainer. I make stuff up. But my stuff that I'm making up is clearly labeled as such. I'm making no attempt to

palm off currently anything that I, that I'm doing as more than it is. I think we need some truth in labeling. So I just, here's a good example. If you, I think they did a poll a few years back and they came to the conclusion that there were way, way, way more people that said they served in Vietnam that actually did serve in Vietnam. Okay? I think we have the same thing about abductions going on right now. There are way, way, way more people claiming them that actually have had them. That's just my opinion. I know other people will disagree with me, but that's where I come at it. Yeah, yeah, I would have to agree. I mean, you know, from my book, I've interviewed hundreds of people who claimed abductions. Do I believe everyone? That's tough to say. Do I believe they believe something happened? Yes,

of course. Did it happen in the reality that we know? I don't know. Are there those that are straight up lying to my face? Probably. And that's sobering. That's depressing. But that's kind of the way it is. But I would have to agree with you. I think there are a handful of genuine possible abduction claims. As for UFO sightings, my God, everyone in their mother has seen something. They can't explain. And it is a wide phenomenon. So I'm not putting down people that have seen things. I've heard, frankly, because, Because I did that television series, Dark Skies, I've had an entire 20-some years where people go, are you the guy that did that TV series? And I'll say, yeah, I am. And they'll say, you know, something happened to me. I never told anybody about it. And then they tell me a great story. Now, those people, I tend to believe.

I don't think they're just making it up for an audience of one. I think that they are tortured by something and they want to talk about it. So I've heard some really terrific stories that I've. find very credible, but I am drawn in my own development toward stories that I think are better cases. So, for example, I have under option the book Captured, which was written by Stanton Friedman and Kathleen Martin about the Betty and Barney Hill case. And we are developing that for a feature film. And the reason I like captured and the Betty and Barney Hill case, more than some more contemporary ones, is that it precedes our feelings about what an abduction is. It's kind of

kind of pure because it's it's sort of the first it's the wellhead of this stuff so I do I am attracted to cases before abductions and aliens became a cultural phenomenon in their own right so I do find myself looking more deeply at some of those right right and there's a few other projects you have in development that I'd like to talk about in a little bit in terms of we talked you know before we started recording here about a famous you know saying we say in New York on the subway it's if you see something, say something. Absolutely. Now, Mufon, Bryce, I don't know if you've ever worked with anyone from Mufon.

I recently had the new director of research on to talk about the organization a couple weeks ago. And I love to know your thoughts on, okay, you see something in the sky, you don't know what it is. What do you do? Like, where do you go? Who do you turn to? What are your thoughts on these civilian-run organizations out there that are taking the time to send people out to, investigate UFOs, whatever the hell they might be. What do you think of this whole idea, this movement of the independent UFO research organization? Well, I think they're heroic people

to do it. They're taking time out of their own lives to try to accomplish something that's worthwhile and important. It doesn't mean that everybody is doing their best work. It just means that nobody else is doing it. So they've stepped in to fill the void. And I have to salute that. You're quite right. Let's say you're driving home tonight and you're out on a deserted road and something literally hovers in front of you. Wow, that's pretty shocking, right? I mean, wow, who are you supposed to tell about it? Who do you call? I mean, you call the police? What are they going to do about it? They're going to say, is it there now? No, no, it flew away. All right, well, go home and take two aspirin and call me in the morning. It's like, what are you supposed to do? So at least Mufon is willing.

to take your call. And by taking enough of those calls, they're able to measure whether things are similar or different. They're able to evaluate your story versus others. So again, they're doing something that we're not doing ourselves right now. I do think as we move forward, we need to really organize ourselves in a clear way because it seems obvious that while the government in 2017, sort of indirectly through Luis Alizando and others, is pretty much admitting that some of those things flying around in our skies are from someplace that isn't here, and they're being flown by somebody that isn't us. I mean, that's a pretty astonishing revelation. They're really not taking the lead on it. They're not leading us to a way where we can grab these answers for

ourselves, nor should we have to wait for the government to tell us. We have got to bring disclosure to ourselves, which is why I think we all need to shape ourselves up and try to apply the best possible standards of science and observation and reporting that we can because to let government or Big Brother or anybody else do it is to ask for somebody to mislead you. And I don't want to be misled anymore. I've had enough of that. Not as young as I used to be and I would like to have some of this resolved in my lifetime. And so I say, let's get on with it. Me too, man. I mean, you know, who knows if we'll ever know. And that capital D on disclosures, the other big thing. You know, we, we, so many in the UFO field, you know, they preach about

not trusting the government about this topic. And then the minute this New York Times article comes out, you know, they're so quick to believe everything the Pentagon has to say about it. It's tough. It is tough. Think about what we've seen in 2017 as we lean into 2018 right now. We saw the New York Times finally start putting things on the front page about this. We saw the government allowing Luis Elizondo to come and talk openly or reasonably openly and to bring with him a couple of great videos. We have deliberately stayed away from going down the rabbit hole of who's behind the wheel and what are their intentions. Yeah. Because a lot of people have a lot of feelings towards that and are very emotional about that. And what I wanted to do is to allow the data to speak for itself and then use that data to inform leadership, senior DOD leadership, about the potential threat that these type of technologies pose to national security,

especially over any type of controlled airspace that we might have. So I'm not trying to be evasive in any way or vague with your answer, but I think there's a lot of possibilities. Look, and I know you think it's important. I know you think that the government didn't take the threat seriously enough. So let me just ask you point blank the question. Do you believe that life from somewhere else while you ran this program came here, visited, observed? I will tell you unequivocally that through the observation, scientific methodologies that were applied to look at this phenomena, that these aircraft, we'll call them aircraft, are displaying characteristics that are not currently

within the U.S. inventory nor in any foreign inventory that we are aware of. So I know you're being clear, but I mean, the answer is yes. My personal belief is that there is very compelling evidence that we may not be alone. We saw Tom DeLong announced that he knows something, but that he's got his own plan for how to get it out. So we have the sort of the government limited modified hangout version. And then we have

the, we'll do it ourselves, but we're not going to call a news conference and tell you what we know. We're going to make some, we're going to write some books and do some TV shows, which is Tom DeLong's version. I think the truth probably is in between all that. And I'm just, I'm heartened. And at the same time, I'm saying, okay, good start. Now let's let's let's. Let's take it to the next level from there. Absolutely. I mean, you've even said that a few times so far of just moving forward. Okay, okay.

Now, you know, you show us these two gun camera videos. That's great. Like, what's next? What's next? I think that's very important that we don't focus too much on what has happened, but what could happen and moving forward. I think that's extremely important in this field. And sort of something that a lot of researchers aren't willing to do. They're too stuck in the past. And that actually has something to do with a question I wanted to ask you about the new generation. You know, I'm 33 years old and I'm considered one of the youngest UFO researchers. And, you know, that's cool and all. But I find that a little, you know, disheartening that we don't have younger people interested in this topic as much. Maybe that's changing. What are your thoughts on that? How can we get them? How can we get them interesting? Well, that's it. That's, those are two questions. And first, it is ridiculous. Because.

if anybody is going to live in this world of the future, which will be a strange, brave new world, it is the young people who are the ones who are going to live in that world. I may be around to see it unveiled, but I'm not going to spend too much of my life living in it. They're going to spend most of their lives living in it. They need to pay attention to this. So I do think that that's way too bad. And it is important that UFO conferences not be full of a lot of graybeards, but more young people who are not only investigators, but who are actively interested. Now, I will say, I did see some people like that at the IUFOC, not as many as I would like, but I think there's more of it.

But the issue that seems to be reflective of what the younger generation is all about right now seems to be, they casually accept that we're not alone in the universe. They love a good alien movie. They love sci-fi. They're willing to geek out on things like that. But they, like their elders, have not made the leap from, well, let me, here's the leap that we need to make. Right now, we're all willing pretty much in large numbers to say, yeah, we're probably not alone in the universe, which is what I call this Carl Sagan theory, that there's so many planets out there that the universe must be teeming with life. Okay, but then we have the Carl Sagan problem, which Sagan would say there's billions in billions.

billions of stars out there with trillions and trillions of planets. The universe is teeming with life, but, and then he would say they couldn't possibly be here. The distances are too large. I think it is time for us to say that is old school thinking. That's not the way it is. It is not true that they haven't made it here. The facts on the ground through the reports that I've seen and you've seen and your listeners have seen, are that they are here in some kind of presence. All right? These things on those two gun camera mounts are not ours,

and they're probably not the Russians, and they're probably not the Chinese. They're somebody else. So instead of pretending that we need to have setty telescopes aimed at the skies to get a radio message, we should really be focusing on that what is clearly the issue of the generation, which is they're here. They're already here. The questions I want to have answered are three. Who are they? What do they want? And are we safe? Those are the three questions

that we should be focused on right now, because the facts on the ground and in the sky literally are that they're here. So we need to move beyond simply wringing our hands about whether they're here. you know, whether the universe has life and say, there is another life. We don't know who they are right now. And those people who have some facts on that, we would welcome coming forward. But so far, it seems that the government has had some 70, some years to come forward and haven't really come forward in a completely honest way, clearly not honest way. And we need to move beyond that. And if they're not going to lead the way, then we're going to have to do it ourselves. Absolutely, man. I've always touted that idea.

that we are all going to have our own personal disclosures and we are going to be the future of whatever lay at the end of this phenomenon for sure. I start talking about UFOs. I'm often treated like the drunk uncle at the party. Okay. And I think we need to just say, okay, well, that goes to the territory. But we need to speak our truth in a clear way. It's like pitching in Hollywood.

You don't pitch the bottom of the pyramid. You pitch the top. start with at least some of the things flying around in our skies are from some place that isn't here and they're being flowing by somebody that isn't us you can probably get a buy-in on that from a lot of people who will then say who are they and then you go well i don't know but i would like to know wouldn't you like to know so talk about it but talk about it in an informed rational non-crazy way be very grounded in your and articulate in how you speak to people on this topic Secondly, if you think you've got a nice UFO library, slap your name in it, put labels on these books, and start giving them out and loaning them to friends.

And when you loan them to a friend, say, I'm not giving you this book. You know, I want it back, but I would like you to take a look at it. So why don't you take a month or so with it? And then when you've had a chance to look it over, let's talk about it. This is how political movements and activist movements seem to work. you've got to bring people into the tent one person at a time. There's not going to be anybody who starts some big movement, at least not yet. It's got to come from the ground up. It's got to be grassroots. People have to be changed by the articulate, informed opinions of people who have

thought about this topic. People like your listeners. Yes, that is such a good way of putting it, and I mean, I gave a skeptic friend of mine, you know, I had him on the show to argue the possibility of UFOs and possibly even abductions, I gave him Travis Walton's book. You know, two months later, he calls me and says, holy shit. And, you know, mind blown. And right there, like you said, like giving someone the credible information amongst the noise, you know, is extremely important. And I think you make a very good point there that, you know, don't keep it so close to

the chest. If you hear a story, tell someone. If you have information, get it out there. Like, don't save it for a rainy day. I have dinners all the time where, you know, friends or new acquaintances will say, well, wait, you believe in this UFO stuff? And I say, well, let's define our terms. I don't believe in UFO stuff, but I do believe. And then I make my statement, I'm going to make it one more time on your program because I think it's a great way to open things up. At least some of the things flying around in our skies are from someplace that isn't here and they're being piloted by somebody that isn't us. And I say that. and people sit there and go, hmm, really? I go, really. And then we take the conversation from there. Sometimes it'll become the dinner. Sometimes it's five minutes. But at least those people are able to look at me, a friend or someone that they believe has some credibility, and they'll say, well, he actually believes that. And so I wonder if there is

something to it. And I think that that's how we're going to have to move forward. I couldn't agree more. That's a perfect way to sort of cap up the entire, you know, journey that you and I and so many others are taking is just, you know, get it out there, find the most credible people, and take it from there. And, I mean, you're working on a couple other film projects as well in development price that will get those credible cases out there. And I know you can't talk much about these. Completely understand that. But, I mean, you mentioned captured earlier, but there's another big one about a case we all are very familiar with that I know you're working on as well, and I found very exciting. Would you mind giving us just a tease on what that might be?

Why don't you tell me what you know? It's a place in New Mexico. I'll leave it at that. All right. Okay. All right. No, it's not like these are state secrets. Everybody develops things. The question is it's really hard to get things made. I give you an example. I have a movie that'll be shot this year called The Last Battle. It's about the last battle of World War II in Europe. And it's taken me over a decade to get it to this place where it's being shot. So it's no, it's no knock on someone that they have ideas that are developing that aren't being produced. It's just really hard to get the money right now because there's obviously a studio system that wants to do tent pull movies. But yes, you're right. I have two UFO themed films that I'm working on and one

television series. I give you a quick rundown because as I said, there's no, it's not a state secret. captured is the one about Betty and Barney Hill. And one piece of very interesting news on that front is that Dan Aykroyd has agreed to play the part of Dr. Benjamin Simon, the psychiatrist. Wow. That addresses the hills. Now, that doesn't mean I have funding. It doesn't mean I have the leads to play the hills, but it's a building block.

And I thank Dan very much. He's a terrific guy. And the fact that he would lend his name to that is fantastic. And it's wonderful. and we're using that to make some introductions now. The movie you're talking about is called Unidentified. Unidentified is based on two things. The life stories to both Don Schmidt and Stanton Friedman, who are preeminent Roswell investigators, and two books they have written.

For Don, it's witness to Roswell, for Stanton, its top secret magic. And I've taken those two life stories, those two books, and woven it into the story of the race to break the Roswell story, which gives it a human value, because we all know Stan and Don, they're very disparate personalities. But what you may not know is in the 90s, they actually were paid to work together for a period of time and ended up sleeping in the same motel rooms while they researched Roswell. So we've made something of that. And I think it's a way to tell the Roswell story in a way that may make it more cinematic and film friendly. So we're definitely working on unidentified.

The thing that's also very exciting to me is that I'm working again with my dark skies co-creator Brent Friedman. Brent and I have been fast friends for years and we sort of captured magic in a bottle with dark skies. We were just two guys that had something to say and we just couldn't be denied and we just said it. And that series is about 90% of the way we wanted to tell the story, which is profound. We didn't have tons of network interference in that regard. And he and I are working currently on adapting the book that I co-wrote with Richard Dolan, which is AD after disclosure. So we're working on a television series about AD right now. Wow.

That's amazing. The world post disclosure. And by disclosure, it doesn't have to be a big D. It can be a little D. But we're writing about the time where everybody on the planet knows that we're not alone. And the implication I can only imagine. You know, in every fact. Well, it's such a big topic.

Yeah. I think that the reason it's taken me all this time from the, when the book was published in 2012, I think it was. So about six years ago, it's taken me this much time because I want to get it right. And I want to, I wanted to find the right framework for it. And I think Brent and I are very close to finding that. So I hope that he and I can get it out and find a home this year. But, you know, there are a lot of hopes and dreams, you know, in the world of uphology and there are hopes and dreams in Hollywood. it. All I can say is that I get up every day and work to make these things a reality. And I think that in their own way, they can help us, if they get made, can help lead us to a time where we do have a more open disclosure and discussion of this very important topic.

I couldn't agree more, Bryce. I mean, it's people like you who invigorate me to continue both facets of my life as well, euphology and writing as well. So, I mean, just to know that when you wake up in the morning, there's someone else. right behind you trying to do the same thing. It's amazing. It's inspirational. And I think you're right. Hollywood is Hollywood. But when it comes to these topics, getting it out to the mainstream any way we can is a big step. And I think you are a hero to many of us in the field who don't have those resources, who don't have that. You know, that's awfully kind, but I don't think it's true. The truth is, I don't really have any other resources than most people have. The resource, I have is what everybody has, which is that I focus on things that are important to me. And I'm sure you do the same, and so do many other people.

And there's a lot of ways to tell this story. I do hope more people do what we talked about earlier with Mufon, whether it's Mufon or another organization that hasn't even been created yet. But organizations where intelligent, like-minded people come together to try to find the facts about this. And I think we need to move beyond one issue here, which is we have spent a long, long time trying to prove that they're real. There's like 10,000 books out there trying to prove to people who can't believe that UFOs are real that they are. I think, and this is why Richard Dolan and I wrote A.D., it was time to write the book nobody had ever written before.

What happens after we agree they're real? What we don't know yet? We need to move to a discussion on a global scale about what we do know about these craft that are flying around, that are under our seas, that are in our orbits. We need to ask ourselves, what are they? What do they want? And is this good or bad? And what's really going on? I'm frustrated because I've accepted for almost 25 years, based on my own reading, that this is not some sort of global delusion that there's.

an actual reality to this thing. So I'm frustrated that 25 years later, A, we're not talking about it as if it's real, and B, that we're not focused on trying to understand what it means to us. Because what it means to us is about the future of humanity, which goes back your earlier point. That's why if you're under 30, start paying attention to this topic, start reading about it, because you'll be that much ahead of the game when in the next five to 10 years this becomes a very open topic that is no longer secret. I love it, man. I stand corrected. See, that that gives me hope. That definitely gives me hope. I couldn't think of a better way to sort of wrap up the discourse here. But I'd love to know where can we find your breakpoint series and the most current book. Where can we get to that?

Fantastic. That's very nice of you. We put together three URLs for your listeners. That'll be pretty simple. The first is if you buy from Amazon, go to Amazon beetles.com. I was really surprised I could get that URL, but I got it. So it's Amazonbeetles.com. And I love to get a sale on Amazon, of course, but I also urge people if they want to get it to go to their independent booksellers, support the local people, and ask them to order it for you. It's still, you'll get it in a few days anyway. The other thing we did is that website that we talked about where you can actually play around in the alternate universe of the Beatles staying together.

and it's called what if beetles.com. And that's fun. And then finally, we put together a video of the Beatles playing together on a new song that we had written for us. And that's on YouTube and it's at more beetles.com. So here they are very quick. Amazon, Beatles, what if Beatles, and more Beatles.com. Perfect. Oh, I can't wait to see that new song, my man.

It's fun. Everything about what I get to do for a living. is fun. And the interesting part of the uphology thing is it goes beyond fun to being important. Absolutely, man. And, you know, as hard as it may be, I can imagine it's just as much rewarding. So, I mean, I've been following you on this UFO trail for many years, Bryce. I'm so honored that you came on today, man. Thank you so much for joining. My total pleasure and all best to all the listeners out there. Keep at it. Don't give up. And stay healthy. That is it for this week's episode.

Again, be sure to check out Bryce's new Breakpoint series installment. Once there was a way, what if the Beatles stayed together? It's available on Amazon. Somewhere in the skies is climbing the ranks on iTunes. If you haven't already, please consider subscribing, rating, and reviewing on the largest podcast platform in the world. Like you didn't already know that. Anyways, your support means the world to me, and it'll help us gain new listeners. The Patreon campaign is offering exciting rewards such as bonus episodes, content, videos, panel discussions, and everything in between.

You can even be my guest or co-host on an episode. So, if you want to support the show and help it grow, consider becoming a patron today at patreon.com backslash somewhere skies. We're on Twitter at Somewhere Skies and Instagram at Somewhere Skies pod. In staying with this week's theme, Bryce Sable shared this amazing alternate Beatles song with us. Imagine if they had recorded well into the late 60s and beyond. Well, imagine no further. I leave you with the Friar Park recording session of the 1971 Beatles smash hit. Show up.

I hope you enjoy. And remember, keep your feet on the ground, but never stop searching somewhere in the skies. Somewhere in the sky. Guys is produced by Third Kind Productions in association with the Entertainment One Podcast Network. To learn more, visit Entertainment One Podcast.com.