Somewhere in the Skies - Global UFO Secrecy with Richard Dolan

Episode Date: June 11, 2018

On episode 60 of SOMEWHERE IN THE SKIES, Ryan first talks a little about his upcoming appearance at AlienCon, taking place on June 15th, 16th, and 17th in Pasadena, CA.  Then, he welcomes his premiere guest back to the show; Richard Dolan. Fresh off the plane from Contact in the Desert in Indian Wells, California, Dolan runs listeners through the intensive three-day lecture series he presented over the weekend. They talk all about false flags, new age derailment in UFO studies, and the global UFO secrecy surrounding the recent Pentagon UFO program, BASS, and the work currently being done by Tom Delonge, Luis Elizondo, and To the Stars Academy. It was a jam-packed discussion with one of the most well-respected historians and UFO researchers in the field today. Guest Bio: Richard Dolan is one of the world’s leading researchers and writers on the subject of UFOs. He is the author of UFOs and the National Security State, Volumes 1 and 2, A.D. After Disclosure, and UFOs for the 21st Century Mind. He is the host of The Richard Dolan Show on KGRA radio, and is a frequent guest on Coast-to-Coast AM. He is currently featured on several television series and documentaries, including Ancient Aliens, Hangar One: The UFO Files and Close Encounters. Prior to his interest in UFOs, Richard completed his graduate work at the University of Rochester, where he studied U.S. Cold War strategy, European history, and international diplomacy. Before that, he had studied at Alfred University and Oxford University and had been a finalist for a Rhodes scholarship. To learn more, visit: www.RichardDolanPress.com Patreon: www.patreon.com/somewhereskies Official Store: CLICK HERE Website: www.somewhereintheskies.com Order Ryan's Book by CLICKING HERE Twitter: @SomewhereSkies Instagram: @SomewhereSkiesPod Opening Theme Song, "Ephemeral Reign" by Per Kiilstofte Closing song, "Send the Signal" by Dance with the Dead SOMEWHERE IN THE SKIES is produced by Third Kind Productions, in association with eOne Entertainment  Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/somewhere-in-the-skies. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

AlienCon is back. Landing June 15th through the 17th, 2018 at the Pasadena Convention Center. Join us to explore the unexplained mysteries of the universe. Remove all the false information. Including expert panels and autographed signings with Giorgio Zuclos, special guest Eric von Danikin and all your favorite ancient aliens contributors. I'm getting goosebumps just thinking about it. AlienCon, June 15 through the 17th.

Get tickets now at the AlienCon.com. This is Somewhere in the Skies with Ryan Sprague. Welcome to Somewhere in the Skies. I'm your host, Ryan Sprague. Before we get to this week's interview, the ad you just heard for AlienCon comes with much excitement, because I'll be speaking at the event on Sunday, June 17th, at 3 p.m. With very special guests in all facets of UFO research, ancient alien theory, sci-fi, and everything in between, this three-day convention taking place on June 15th, 6th,

and 17th, brings together a wide variety of people from all over the world to have a great time and ask questions about UFOs, ancient aliens, and aliens and UFOs in pop culture. I'll be giving a talk titled A Human Approach to an Alien phenomenon, inspired by my book. Speaking of the book, I'll be selling and signing books alongside past guest, filmmaker, and newfound UFO researcher, Dean Alliotto. So be sure to stop by and say hello. I'll also be doing Facebook live events on site, interviews with speakers, and insider access to some of the panels taking place. For more information on speakers, panels, and special events throughout the weekend, and to purchase tickets, visit thealiencon.com.

When I first launched the podcast, I wasn't sure how it was all going to go, obviously. Who would want to hear a podcast about UFOs on a weekly base? I decided to give it a try, but knew I had to get a guess that would really up the stakes and bring not only insight on the topic, but a knowledge of the history of UFOs, the present state of UFO studies, and the foresight of where we may be heading with this mystery, and how it's handled by both the public and those who seek to control the information. That guest was none other than my publisher, Richard Dolan. And right out of the gate, the premiere episode of Somewhere in the Skies skyrocketed into the stratosphere of downloads.

And that's when I knew people did want to hear about UFOs on a weekly basis. So, after 60 main episodes and a handful of bonus episodes, I'm excited and honored to bring back the man who helped put somewhere in the skies on the podcast map. Fresh off the plane, Dolan sits down with me to talk all about his recent trip to Indian Wells, California. for contact in the desert, one of the largest UFO conferences in North America. With speakers from all over the world in every field of study, it remains one of the most well-attended gatherings of those who seek answers to the UFO phenomenon and possibility of extraterrestrial visitation. Richard Dolan has been invited to speak every single year of the event,

with good reason, as you'll hear today. We run through three vastly different lectures he gave at the event, ranging from false flag operations to the new age derailment of UFO studies. We then tackle UFO secrecy through the lens of the recent Pentagon UFO program story to the Stars Academy and the never-ending battle between corporate and alternative media coverage of the UFO topic. This is a jam-packed interview with one of the most well-respected historians and UFO researchers out there today. So, without further ado, let's make contact with Richard Dolan. Rich, thank you so much for joining me today on Summer in the Skies again.

Hi, Ryan. Oh, it's a pleasure to be on with you. I'm glad. It's been too long, so I'm glad to be doing it now. Way too long, man. You were my premier guest for the show, and it is still, to this day, my most highly downloaded episode. So full circle, man, you're back. And fresh off the heels of contact in the desert, am I correct?

Oh, yes, Tracy and I just, I just got married, by the way, a month ago to my love Tracy Garbut. Right, right. She's traveling with me. We did contact in the desert just last weekend. And yes, it was interesting. I did three lectures, one of which was a brand new lecture, two of which I've been tweaking and updating over the last year or so. So, yeah, there's a lot of new information I had to present. Right.

First, congratulations on the marriage. Thank you. I was there when you popped the question. Well, in the same vicinity, I should say. So that was quite a memorable experience to say the least. That was at the International Congress in 2017. That's right. Yep, yep, yeah.

Someone took a picture of the moment that I asked it from a distance and put it on Twitter. You can't ask for more than that. It's insane. God bless the Internet, yeah. So thank you, yes. So, yeah, so we're sort of going to run through your three intensive lectures. workshops, talks that you gave this week, all very different. The first was Friday. You spoke about, this was called Down the Rabbit Hole of False Flags. You talked all about what they are, how they

happen, the evolution. So yeah, if you wouldn't mind giving us sort of a primer on what this was all about. This is kind of a new venture you've been diving into and been working on. It is. I've been deeply involved in research now for a couple of years. So what I did is really presented my current, I guess, thinking on what false flags are. are and why they are such a big part of our world today, for anyone who just doesn't know what the phrase mean, a false flag is simply an event or an action that is done by a party, usually a government or not always a government. It could be an intelligence agency.

It could be anyone. That is then blamed on somebody else. And that event is usually something traumatic or awful, something that is designed to elicit emotional reaction, blamed on someone else, and that is then used to justify something that would be very hard to justify otherwise. So, you know, I think people have really gotten into talking about false flags, particularly since 9-11. There's been, I think, as you and many listeners, realize a great deal of research done on 9-11 that more than just show suspicion, suspicious actions of the United States government about many things, but really lead people

to believe that the U.S. elements of the U.S. government deliberately made the events of that day to happen, blamed it on al-Qaeda, and then used that to justify the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq and really the imposition of a of a homeland security state, which we are living into to this day. So 9-11, you know, and I think in anyone's analysis is really the centerpiece of false flags of the modern era, but it's not the first and not the last. One of the things that I have done with false flags, at least conceptually, is to point out that this really is a distinctively modern phenomenon. False flags, you'll often read on the web, people will say it's ancient phenomenon.

People have been doing false flags since ancient times. That's kind of, it's really not true. I mean, there are events in the ancient world that could well qualify as false flags. In my study of ancient history, I have found a number of events that I would say are false flaggy that are like false flags but they're not really quite what you'd expect out of a false flag like a covert op that's you know just deliberately perniciously you know engaging in act of what what might be called perfidy you know like a really devious sort of a lie and that's that's really a specifically modern 19th really 20th century phenomenon in our in our own era

and the reason that this is a modern phenomenon in my own opinion is because it's only in the 20th century, particularly after the bloody carnage of the First World War, which was a horrible meat grinder of human humanity, to be honest, it's just something that utterly traumatized Europe in particular because they just convulsed upon themselves and millions of dead young men. So as a result of that, there was the development of what you would say, a specific international law that made wars of aggression illegal. And definitely, Definitely immoral. It's hard to remember and easy to forget that before the First World War, which was just 100 years ago, nations had traips off to war like as if it was a great, wonderful, glorious, glorious thing to do.

And after the First World War, no, it is not. And so what happened is that nations still perceive the need to engage in warfare. elites still perceived a need to steal things from other parts of the world. I mean, that never goes away. But increasingly what you'd find is a need to hide and mask that because, again, wars of aggression were really after 1918 considered absolutely wrong. The other thing about the World War I era is that after World War I, you'd get the growth in the modern world of a wide range of nations that were ostensibly democratic.

You know, prior to World War I, democracy was very much in a minority type of a government. There were very few nations in the world that were openly democratic. After World War I, very, very different. And it seemed like every nation in the world was like, oh, yes, we're a democracy to do. And we're a democracy and we're a democracy. So with that attitude, nations and governments and elites still needed to – they felt the need to do the kind of aggression and all the things they need to do. but they had to corral the public more and more. So the public increasingly felt that they were part of the process of making decisions.

And so as a result, it became necessary to fool the public more and more. Like I say to people, if you're in North Korea today, Kim Jong-un doesn't need to false flag you. Like, he'll do what he wants to do, and that's all there is to it. Saudi Arabia, same thing. Like false flags are not really necessary in a completely openly authoritarian government. But in a government where the people at least have a pretense of ruling, it's more and more important for elites to be able to fake out, to do a head fake on the people. And false flags are one of those ways to do it. Along with the growth of major media is the last piece of the puzzle, really the last big piece where governments now have the ability, if they dominate major media, to get their messaging out there.

And then, of course, the development of good covert ops teams, which also comes really out of world. War I and then World War II. So it's really the 20th century. You get the real need and ability for false flags to be perpetrated on the public in a significant way. And it's really in the 1930s, honestly, where you start seeing real false flags like Germany, Japan, the Soviet Union, all during that era did false flags, like the Rajstag fire, which many people have heard of. That was Germany's 9-11. That was with near certainty we can say the Nazis planned and orchestrated this, even today, 80-plus years later, historians argue about the Reichstag. But generally speaking, I think there's a reasonable consensus that Hermann Goering and other Nazis

planned and did this as a way to blame it on communists and as a way to give Hitler extreme powers, which really led to his dictatorship. Prior to that, he was just a chancellor, just a prime minister, basically. So you get it in the 1930s, and then after World War II, it's America's game. This episode is brought to you by Netflix. Most valuable promotions in Netflix are hosting a blockbuster triple headliner Saturday, May 16th. Rhonda Rousey returns to face fellow woman's MMA pioneer Gina Carano in the main event. Plus co-main's Nate Diaz versus Mike Perry.

And the best have you wait in the world, Frances Ngano versus Felipe Lins. Watch Rhonda Rousey versus Gina Carrano, live only on Netflix. Saturday, May 16th at 9 p.m. Eastern Center time, 6 p.m. Pacific Time. And I do want to ask you this, Rich, just for a moment here. This is a very hot-button issue as of late. Is this idea of these mass shootings that have gone on in the United States? Is this anything you've looked at in terms of the false flag? Not phenomenon, but the whole theory of this. Does this play any role in that? Or do you find this politically motivated in some way? What do you think about that whole thing? Yeah, that's a really, really good question, Ryan. And to be honest with you, shootings are, are. are a tricky one with false flags. I do believe that some of the shootings, the mass shootings, which have been done,

are, I mean, false flags, not in the sense that they didn't happen. I mean, I think that they did happen and that the shooters involved may well have been involved, but in the sense of some other things that are, I mean, I think that there are things that are wrong with some of these events and that it is entirely possible

that some of the shooters who have been arrested and incarcerated were innocent. of what they did. You know, I do believe this, this is not a shooting, but a bombing, I believe this is the case of the Boston Marathon bombing event of 2013. I think that those brothers, the Sarnia brothers, were almost certainly unjustly convicted. Well, one of them was murdered, but the other one was convicted. But in some of the shootings, it's tricky. And honestly, you know, some of them I think it may be impossible to know with certainty. What you have to look for with any of these events is our inconsistencies in the narratives. So where, in other words, you see a number of people who will say, I saw multiple shooters at such and such a shooting event. And this did happen in a number of them, like the Aurora, Colorado shooting with James Holmes. You had a number of witnesses that said they saw multiple shooters. You can't always do the same thing when people say they hear multiple shots because there is an echo effect. I just had a long discussion with someone about the Las Vegas shooting, which was just recent, which involves Stephen Paddock.

There are definitely oddities about the Las Vegas shooting. And I personally want to look more deeply into them. I think that there's very definitely something wrong about that. But some of the things that people talk about, I just, I try to be careful of. What you do find with a lot of these is with shootings or any of the other false flags is, if you find that the Patsy is typically killed off quickly or the suspect, I should say, is typically killed off quickly, you really have to wonder. And then even if they're alive, they're convicted in a secret kangaroo court, which basically happens to the Zokar Sarniav, the younger Sarniav brother in Boston.

But with the shootings, you know, people ask me about Sandy Hook like all the time. Sandy Hook is one of those shootings that is dreadful to look into because it just seems like an utterly unsatisfying investigative experience. People have tried looking into Sandy Hook and have had very little success. And that's the reality. Now, that doesn't mean that a shooting didn't happen. It doesn't mean that we haven't even heard that we may very well have heard the truth about Sandy Hook from the official establishment. Maybe it's true. But the truth is that there have been investigators who've tried to look into that and they have not been able to get very far.

And with a lot of these modern shootings, that seems to be the case. Like the doors just close shut. And I do wonder, with a lot of them, you do see whether they're false flags or not, you see a, a highly politicized result coming out of them. For example, with Sandy Hook, not simply gun control calls for that, but even more significantly, calls for psychological profiling the mentally ill. It was a big issue out of Sandy Hook. Out of the recent Florida shooting and the school shooting a horrible thing, you now get a

movement to basically turn our schools into open-air prisons or closed prisons to make students feel safe, metal detectors and, you know, random locker searches and all of that. In fact, you find a lot of the students in the front row calling to be safe. And I'm like, okay, great, if you want to be saved, that's what's going to happen. You're going to have metal detectors and random locker searches for the rest of all time, so get used to it. So there's definitely political actions that come out of these. But whether the shootings are all false flags, it's a real tough one. What I would like to emphasize is that that's not really where the true action is, in my view, with false flags today.

I think the real action is typically United States. organized activities in nations abroad. For example, Syria has been subjected to many, many false flags by the United States over the last few years. I could talk at great length about some of that. There was one just quite recently, and I'm very, very strongly of the opinion that the last chemical weapons attack attributed to the Bashar al-Assad government just a month and a half ago was a false flag against them. We believe it was false flag for one reason and simple reason. if there was gas leakage or attack

and you talk about 60 dead in that city how could the city continue its life normally they didn't evacuate the city no one left the city life continued as normal and this is mass destruction the other day they attacked Shwairat where they said there was

the gas deports and they attacked all the depots and there was no gas coming up to that airport. No one of our army officers or staff, military staff, was affected by any gas. So for us, there was no gas attack and no gas airport. It was force flag play just to justify the attack on the Sherat base. This was one day before that government was going to, excuse me, one day before there was a chemical weapons inspection scheduled to take place. place and then boom a day before there's a chemical weapons attack anyone who's looked into this

has seen that there is actually nothing linking the Assad government to that and in previous chemical weapons attacks you see that it's it's the jihadists that were organized and trained and funded by the united states that are predominantly behind these false these chemical weapons attacks yeah it always seems to circle back to us somehow well in the world of false flags the United States is the Olympic champion every year. Gold medal we don't want. One thing I would mention in terms of regime changing false flags, the United States is really the expert at influencing elections, rigging elections, and switching out governments.

It never ceases to amuse me when I hear about people talking about how Russia supposedly influenced our last election. I'm like, are you kidding me? That's our job. That's what the U.S. does is rig elections. Russians, you've got to be kidding me. The United States went through a very, very sophisticated transformation in the 1980s and 90s, by which they switched out the responsibility for doing false flag regime changes from the CIA, which previously, years before, just did one coup,

organized the military of one nation, military of another nation, to do a coup against the government, whether it's Brazil or Laos like a million times, or Greece or Cambodia or Bolivia or Chile, famously the Allende government switched out for the torturous Pinoje government in Chile. I mean, this has gone on. This is all part of the U.S. history. But by the mid and late 70s, there was a backlash against that. It was after Watergate, after Vietnam. And people were like, you know, maybe we shouldn't be using the CIA to throw out governments

that often are elected by their people and putting in military dictatorships. So what the U.S. did is in 1983, this is in the Reagan years, created something that, known as the National Endowment for Democracy, the NED. It's an NGOs, a non-governmental organization, which just happens to get all of its money from the U.S. government to function. A lot of CIA money, State Department. But what the NED does is it funds international NGOs like Freedom House, oh my goodness, the National Democratic Institute for International Fears, NDI, the International Republican Institute, and all these others. They're international NGOs and are called English. And what they do is they will fund the local NGOs of target nations to create revolutionary movements.

So like the so-called color revolutions of the early 2000 in Eastern Europe or the Arab Spring of 2011 is a perfect example where you have U.S. money through the CIA and through the State Department funneling through these various organizations to start up public revolution, organized. at all times by U.S. hand-picked leaders of those local revolutions. And all those revolutions, of course, end up being pro-Western corporate, pro-Western finance, pro-U.S., like every last one of them. So that's how the CIA does it now. It's through the National Endowment for Democracy. It's a whole NGO structure that's very, very effective because it really keeps the U.S. fingerprints much farther removed from the scene of the crime. And, you know, there are a lot of analysts who are right on this, and they know exactly how the whole thing works through these NGOs. But it's really an amazing thing.

Just in a few steps, you can, you know, start with a few million dollars. You can overthrow your own government out. You fund your core leaders. They hire the key workers and trainers. They create the social media and news infrastructure, you know, YouTube, Facebook, all the web pages, Twitter. They create a physical infrastructure like shanty towns and bandstands and banners. and signage, then the one thing they have to do is create an event that sparks the movement. That could be an election that you decide, you're going to say, is fraudulent even before it's

happened, or it can be someone who's in prison. Or it could be a violent protest that generates a police response, and you've got social media ready to record it, and you put it on your Facebook, and that's the event, or whatever. It could be a lot of things. You want to give the appearance of an actual movement that generates interest by the public. Then you get the local politicians to support it, and then you get the U.S. to support it. You get the U.S. to support you. You're on your way to running your own little country.

The thing is, like, when people see this stuff in the news, they're like, oh, well, good for the people. They're protesting against the evil government. But you've got to understand, like, this happens time and again now. In the last 20 years, it's happened so many times. And it's not that people don't have a right to have a better life. Of course they do. But we really are, we would be wise to investigate just who is paying for these revolutions and for these rebellions. And frequently when you really trace the finances, it goes right back to Washington, D.C.

Follow the money. The rabbit hole aspect of your title is all right there. Moving to your second, Doc Rich, this was, I can only imagine this was. a little controversial at contact in the desert. We have all these connotations that this is a big, you know, outside event with a lot of new age aspects to it. And your talk was called the New Age sci-up, how it has derailed the study of UFOs. How did this one go over? Did you get a, did you get Lynch for this one? I have to ask. This is something of an in-your-face kind of a lecture and that kind of a conference. And here's the thing. Like I've, contact in the desert

has been going for, I believe, six years. And someone just said to me that I was invited every single year. And I thought, wow, I have gone many times. I enjoy contact in the desert. It's a fun experience for me. It always has been good people. It is very new agey. It's not as new agey as some of the new life expos in New York or L.A.,

but it's still definitely right out there. And as such, I have often felt a little bit like a fish out of water. That's the truth. And I'll always agree to go. it's always a nice time, but there's a very, very strong element of new age philosophy that is there. It's not that I'm against all forms of strange ways of getting information. My goodness, my wife, Tracy, is a very, very excellent remote viewer, and she's been professionally trained by a man who actually has taught for many years at the Monroe Institute. He's very good, and she's excellent.

That's real. And I've studied remote viewing long before I knew Tracy. I've been, I never need any convincing on that. And there's a lot of other strange things about our world. I've studied UFOs long enough to know that things like consciousness actually are important in this. There is some kind of mind-to-mind connection that many experiences have with this UFO phenomenon. That's all real. And what it means is that there's a very big part of our reality that's not being explained by contemporary physics in my view.

for these things to be true, for a remote viewer, for instance, to be able to see something on the other side of the world or in another time tells me that space and time are a little bit different than how we typically understand it. And that's a whole in our understanding that can leave the door open for what we might call paranormal or new age philosophy or consciousness.

So I'm not here, I'm not like Michael Shermer, I'm not Sam Harris, I'm not trying to debunk all of this. I come from a perspective where I know there's a lot of strange things. Having said that, I gave a lecture here that looks at New Age philosophy in euphology as a sciop, whether it is or isn't is another issue. But one thing I would point out to people is when you look at the birth of the hippie generation, that has been argued very effectively to be a psychological operation by Navy intelligence and CIA. And the good work on that's been done by the late Dave McGowan. And I would encourage anyone to go

read his analysis of the 1960s and the hippies called the strange but mostly true story of Laurel Canyon and the birth of the hippie generation long title it's on the web anyone can read it it's outstanding and what McGowan does is he paints a picture of this sleepy little town laurel canyon outside of LA in the mid-60s that at one point around then didn't even have its own zip code and suddenly every major future rock stars seemed to descend on the area Jim Morris and Frank Zappa a young rock star wannabe named Charlie Manson, John Phillips of the Mamas and the Pappas, David Crosby, Stephen Stills,

and people with talent, people without talent, Jim Morrison, if I didn't mention him. And what he finds is that a large number of these people come from families of the U.S. military intelligence, Navy intelligence, particularly, or CIA connections. Like a large number. So that made McGowan go, hmm what's this all about what does this mean anything he went further he found that laurel canyon for 20

years prior had had a um a u.s classified navy propaganda film studio there so that u.s navy had a presence in laurel canyon since the 1940s he found that laurel canyon was right where lsd began to spring out of american culture to the nation at large yes lsd had been around before then but it was in laurel canyon in 1965 that it starts to explode. 1965 was when you get the first real hippies with the long hair and the crazy clothing, with the emphasis on sex and drugs and rock and roll, a strong occult emphasis out of Laurel Canyon. A lot of young psychopaths like Manson go there. And what McGowan starts to argue is that this really looks like it was an operation by the U.S.

intelligence community to derail the then viable peace movement. that was spreading across the US, not by hippies, but by young people with, you know, wearing their pocket protectors and their plaid pants and holding hands and marching for civil rights or against the war. And they were very, you know, principled young people. And that became the Woodstock experience

of free love and getting high and doing LSD and really getting out of political activism. And I think McGowan made a very strong argument that the hippie culture was a, was an operation. Now, that's not proof, but what I would say is that the CIA has a long history of cultural manipulation, of media manipulation, of mind control through MK Ultra and follow-up programs, of infiltration of UFO organizations. All of this is documented going back to the 1950s. Then you've got the FBI example of Cointel Pro, where the FBI explicitly

infiltrated active U.S. groups for social change and undermine them and destroyed them, like the Black Panthers or students for democratic society. So there's this example in American history of the U.S. intelligence actively working to control our culture. And it's not very well known, but it's true that the CIA promoted abstract expressionism in art by funding it, like, people like Jackson Pollock and the like, through the Congress for Cultural Freedom in the 1950s and 60s. And you might think, well, that's cool. You might think that's weird. It's probably both.

The CIA funded, you know, the craziest of the crazy abstract expression as art as a tool in the cultural Cold War. And all that means is that there's a long history, actually, of the CIA involved and engage in U.S. culture. And then there's the CIA's connection to the new age. Is there? Answer, yes. There's a book called The Course in Miracles, which was one of the early sort of new age statements in American culture. Well, the man who is the boss of the woman who channeled Jesus, which is what that was, he was a long time M.K. Ultra and mind control scientists with the CIA. His name was William Thetford or Bill Thetford. And he might have been a nice guy, but he worked with M.K. Ultra for years, years and years. It just so happens. Does it mean something? Well, it might. I looked into early, odd connections with intelligence with the Esselin Institute, which is out in California, or its connections to the famous Tavistock Institute, which is in London, and was a collaboration of British military intelligence and the psychiatric community.

And the whole CIA possible connection of creation of cults. There's a long study of the CIA connection to the Jim Jones cult known as the People's Temple, which resulted in a mass suicide in the South American nation of Guyana. And I think the claim that that's a CIA operation and experiment in social control and mind control is a good argument. It's not open and shut, but it's a good one. There are a number of these others that I've looked into that make me think, The CIA may indeed have an interest in creating cults. When I look at New Age movement, how it exploded into UFOs really during the 1990s. I see something that has done one thing in particular, a couple of things actually.

One is it's brought in a lot of self-described profits and predictors who give claims that, I mean, are impossible to check. Like, it's not, you know, when someone says that they met with Andromedans and, um, and make one prediction after another, that's always wrong. You have to wonder, and this is true, this was, you know, one such person, and they're always wrong. You have to wonder, what is the purpose here? Is it someone just self-aggrandizing, just working off of people's gullibility? That could very well be the case.

But you've got a lot of examples of new age mentality. There's a lady who's with Zeta talker, names Nancy Leder. And, I mean, she's really one of the more out there of all of them, admittedly. she would talk about how this is back in 03 I believe she had a prediction for the collision with Nibiru you know the planet supposedly that Sitchin wrote about and aliens in Zeta reticuli told her through messages via a brain implant of a of this planet which would enter our solar system and cause a pole shift that would destroy most of humanity these people just keep coming and coming and then of course everything leading up to ascension 2012 which

I think was one of the most pernicious of all of the of the new age intrusions in uphology. It was just horrible that this thing really gained the momentum it did. It was very damaging to, I think, the critical thinking skills of anyone loosely connected with the UFO field. The idea that planet Earth was shifting from a third dimensional to a fourth and fifth dimensional vibrational frequency. You hear this all – one would hear this all the time. And extraterrestrials, along with angels or spiritual health.

hierarchies or whatever would be the catalyst to usher in great changes and this is all predicted for 2012 and of course it did not happen so my point about this is that these types of predictions are based on evidence-free assertions and it's as if because they come from a supposedly intuitive point of knowledge that it's impossible to check it with with anything like evidence and how dare you for thinking that you should ask for evidence for some of these things so I mean, that's really how it went. And what ended up happening is that a certain portion of the culture that follows UFOs basically lost their mind. I mean, just lost their mind.

And they haven't regained it because you still hear talk about ascension to this day. I'm like, what is what do you need to understand that ascension is nothing other than a mass cultural death wish? That is what it is. Pure escapism. I mean, and then there's all the rest, like all of the supposed disclosure events that were going to happen. And that's not necessarily a new age thing. But these happen because people get used to, they get used to claims without evidence through a kind of new age-oriented mentality.

And it leads the door open for all these other charlatans to come along and say, I've got inside sources that say there's going to be disclosure this year or this year or this year. You know, there was a claim about a decade ago when Obama was just elected that he was the reincarnation of the Egyptian god Horus. and if people want to know who made the prediction, go Google it. I'll let you do the work. But it's an embarrassment and that these things get traction the way that they do, and it never seems to stop. So I thought, you know, I don't know that this is a CIA operation,

but here's the thing. If I were trying to hide evidence of a secret space program or some other really advanced thing that I don't want the public to know about, I would make sure that I litter the field with as much unprovable, nonsensical data as I could to turn the whole field into like a where's Waldo cartoon like where you know the real thing is there but it's surrounded by all this other stuff good luck finding it one of the elements of this mentality that I think is very dangerous is this idea about avoiding negativity because the concept is that you create your own reality therefore by emphasizing anything

negative, the theory is that you're giving power to negativity. And this is a very incorrect and dangerous idea. It is, I believe, and I have believed in my whole life that the way that I think affects my behavior and affects my character and my future. And so that the way that we think is very important indeed, and you want to talk to yourself in the right way to have a healthy life but I would say at the same time by avoiding looking at the difficult things in this world which is really easy to do for someone who's a true died in the world new age mentality type of a person by avoiding things that they feel are negative they are setting themselves up to be dominated and been controlled by a power structure that is relentless by the smallest number of people now who want to

own everything that is worth owning in this world that is a war and and it doesn't help to fight that war if one lives inside a mental bubble that gives them a reason to avoid evidence-based claims in in favor of heart-centeredness or whatever what have you that impedes clear thinking and what we need more than ever is clear thinking because this is this is not fun in games that we're involved in this is a really serious situation not just in euphology but the world in general so um i just want to mention that and i think and again it's not to deny that we live in a strange world, and it's not to deny that even things like psychics are all invalid. I don't say that, but we have to be able to recognize BS when it

comes our way, and we've got to be willing to ask for evidence when we receive claims of any sort whatsoever, and we just have to be in that mindset. It's the only way to win is by seeing what the other guy is actually doing, and you can't do that if you are living in a mental bubble. I couldn't agree more. I mean, mindset is, it's, it's necessary and it's the most powerful tool I think we have that could be wielded for good and bad. You make a really good point with that, Reg. Well, in terms of your last talk, now this is where it got a little bit more nuts and bolts for us uphologists out there. Right. And very current. This has a lot to do with to the stars, bass, ATIP, all of it, disclosure. This was the global UFO secrecy, new

revelations. Now, I know you're not a big fan of the New York Times, but they were the first to bring this story to the mainstream public. So I would love to hear your thoughts on all of this, all of the revelations we're having. Let's dive in. So I did have a lot to say about Tom DeLong to the Stars and ATIP. Prior to that, I just, I always like to set the stage for what I think is the general scenario of what's going on in this world. But there's a definite phenomenon of of UFOs that's real, that is here, that is represented by beings that are not us. They came here from wherever they came with incredibly advanced technology and even beyond that. Space time manipulation, incredible powers of the mind. They're doing some contact,

some abductions. They've been here a long time. I think probably a lot of them are artificially created organisms, but that's just my own opinion. Our response to that has been obtained as much of the technology as possible, to create a breakaway civilization, secret space program, desperately trying to catch up, weaponizing the technologies, hiding the breakthroughs. All of it, I think, is what's going on. And in that context, you know, we have the latest kind of outing of information, which was the New York Times revelations starting December 16, 2017. And for someone who just wants a quick recap, it's real simple.

On that date, the New York Times posted two, not one, two, halfway decent articles of validating the UFO phenomenon which is that's actually world historical because the New York Times

has never done this before never the New York Times from its beginning from the beginning of the flying saucer UFO phenomenon in 1947

since this has become a thing in our culture has always debunked and not just debunked a little bit but like hardcore vicious just throwing it

you know kicking it to the curb debunking. And that has always been the New York Times style. And yet suddenly, you have two reasonably decent articles that describe the UFO phenomenon as something legitimate. And, you know, the revelations, I mean, I'll just recap. One thing that they stated is that the Pentagon spent $22 million on UFO research for at least five years from 07 to 2012. It's not that long ago. It's recent history. with a program known as the ATIP Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program, interesting title, managed by Louise Elizondo, a career intelligence officer.

And by the way, Elizondo's statements have been very interesting. I'm sure you're very familiar with it. I'm sure your listeners are. But he would say things, we've never seen anything like these sightings or the technology beyond next generation. That's heavy duty. Mr. Elizando joins us tonight. Luke, good to see it. Thank you for having you.

So did I overstate that? Is there a growing corpus of evidence? not drunk people on a lonely rural road at three in the morning, but sober military pilots saying something that we can't explain is happening. That is correct. You're talking about individuals who have very high security clearances. They are trained observers. We've actually paid them and put them through schools to be trained and very keen observers to scrutinize what they're seeing. These are individuals who we trust to fly weapons platforms, sometimes with live munitions, over U.S. cities, and to fight and win wars on our behalf.

And they're reporting to us that they're seeing something that they can't explain. And it's also being backed up by the video evidence and the radar data. And then talking about recovered materials, which they described as metal alloys, from objects that were being studied by Bigelow Aerospace, which is the contractor to the Pentagon for this. And then the other thing that came out, at least that was confirmed by the New York Times, was the extraordinary UFO encounter by Commander David. favor known as the Tic Tac Encounter from November of 2004.

Honestly, I wanted to fly it. You know, talking to some physicists, they don't think the human body could handle that kind of force with that acceleration. It doesn't sound like the human body could. So bottom line, what do you think this was? I believe, as do the other folks that were on the flight that we visually saw it, that it was something not from this world. Presumably you expressed that belief to your superiors. What did they say? Actually, we caught a lot of grief getting back to the boat, and it got passed off as an event that no one could explain.

Now, keep in mind, they had been tracking these for two weeks prior to us seeing it, and this was the first time that manned airplanes had been airborne when the objects appeared. So those are the big revelations, and that's a lot. So this is something where people who follow the UFO field would read these two articles and say, aha, this is validation of what we've been interested at all this time. And absolutely like, you know, came out just before Christmas. I'm sure there were a lot of Christmas discussions of family get-togethers that December, seriously, where people were like, I told you, this is real Uncle Jimmy. See that?

You think it was all nonsense. It isn't. I'm sure a lot of that happened. And I think that's a very good thing. Like it was this acknowledgement by the corporate media that this phenomenon has legitimacy. Now, I would point out a few things. One is that even in the New York Times piece, it's like they give you a little bit, then they take away at the same moment. In the New York Times piece, for example, the main one called glowing oras in black money, the Pentagon's mysterious UFO program.

Even the title is very like sensationalistic. But in the article, you've got gratuitous skeptical statements by James Oberg, long-time skeptic debunker. And this astronomer from Yale totally unrelated to anything in the article, why include it? included just to give you the reader the idea, don't get excited. You can still be skeptical. So there was that hesitancy that they had. But really what you find is that other than the initial follow-up coverage in the establishment media, so you had CNN and Fox doing interviews with Elizondo and Fravor and some of the others.

And most of that was fairly positive coverage. It's definitely slowed down and you definitely see no real follow-up from the establishment media, from the corporate media on any of these these claims like nothing and there's no self-examination on why the media has been was so dismissive of UFOs no follow-up on bigelow's possession of these recovered materials like how do they just let it go yeah no follow-up on elizando's points like he Elizando said these sightings are unbelievable and we had no interest in the higher ups why like they're incredible no one bothering to ask about the implications of a cover-up like In other words, all the work that's been done since then has been done by private researchers.

So it just tells me that the establishment or corporate media's treatment is not serious. And I asked myself why, and I just think, well, to the Stars Academy was already going as full speed ahead as they were able to. They just got Elizando on board. And my opinion, and no one has debunked me of this opinion so far yet, is that the New York Times got ahead of this. because someone had to. And if they weren't going to cauterize the wound, then it could just continue and continue. In other words, the New York Times, you pretend to give up a secret by concealing, by giving up some of it and concealing the rest. And I think that's what they did.

And like one of the examples is that the New York Times said, well, yeah, the program for five years, but it's done. They don't do it anymore. Like that was the story, like it ended in 2012. But in fact, every analysis that's gone in depth to this has said, it's still going. But the New York Times says, no, seems to have been ended 2012. So I think it's until I am persuaded otherwise, my feeling is that this is an example of a drip of disclosure, but also really an example of just giving up as much as you need to and then get the story to go away for as long as possible. You've interviewed individuals who work for alternative media outlets who are still digging into this and even found a different name for the program.

So, I mean, right there is showing that the mainstream is kind of done with this. You know, they said their piece for their own agenda. But we know that there are adamant researchers out there who will dig deeper. And maybe they weren't expecting that. I don't know. What do you think? No, that's exactly right. In fact, the researcher that I've talked about, his name Paul Dean out of Australia, and he's an amazing document researcher, really one of the best in the world.

And he argued in one of his blog pieces, and I spoke with Paul, that the main name or the other name for this program is known as Advanced Aerospace Weapons Systems Application Program, A-A-W-S-A-P. And there's a couple of variations of that that are out there, but it's it's AWSAP, and that's added a little bit of confusion to the mix as well. But you don't get this from the mainstream establishment or the corporate medium. So now there is some good news that came out, George Knapp, I mentioned this in my lecture over at KLAS in Las Vegas. And of course, NAP's been very, very good on UFOs for a long time. Just less than a month ago, I think on May 18th. his team obtained an in-depth report, which they said was prepared by the military and for the military, which analyzes the Tick-Tac UFO, stating that this is like way, way beyond anything that we or any of the nation have. Basically, that it was so advanced, it made U.S. capabilities ineffective, which is true that the Tick-Tac UFO from what we are learning about it, this object, the key thing about it is that Fravor and his other pilot were told a vector into a particular.

rendezvous point. The UFO was not there at the time that they were told to go there. When they arrived, the object was there as if waiting for them. And this is significant because the Navy communications are highly encrypted. So being able to defeat highly encrypted communications by the U.S. Navy is important. Aside from the fact that they changed the encryption every 15 minutes. This is really major. And of course, it was able to outperform their top of the line fighter jet, the F-18A Super Hornet. So whatever this was. Now, the one critique of NAP's finding is that people have argued it wasn't a military report. It might have been a Bass report that is Bigelow advanced aerospace systems. But even so, it's a very interesting, a very, very interesting

report. And I would assume, you know, in terms of the TikTok UFO event as well, that the videos we're getting from to the stars are only a portion of what actually was recorded that day, right? I mean, there's no way it was only three, four, five seconds long. No, no. You're exactly right, Ryan. And so I just was this weekend at the conference, one of the people there was Peter Levenda. And Peter LeVenda co-authored the book with Tom DeLong and he's associated with To the Stars. And let me just say, I've known Peter Levenda personally for the last seven years. And I've years and have only the highest respect for him. He's an outstanding researcher with nothing but integrity, and that's a fact. And so I asked Peter about this, and his answer was very simple. He said,

yeah, that's true. To the Stars has no control over what gets declassified or not. That's Pentagon's decision. So the Pentagon did have, does have longer versions of all of those videos and of others as well that have not yet been released, but longer versions of what we have seen, and their logic, and we can accept or not accept that logic, is they withheld it because longer sections would give up the infamous sources and methods of how they get their intelligence. And that's what they say. Now, that's not always true, in my opinion. I think sometimes they're holding back content.

But I don't think this is a feature of To the Stars. I don't get the idea that to the Stars are being coy with their data. For a while I wasn't sure. I mean, honestly, I'd heard a couple of different things and wondered if to the stars was just holding things back. But according to Peter, LeVendom, and I'm just going to say I'm believing him on this, they are doing everything they can to get the videos declassified from the Pentagon.

So that's their story. And it's worth asking follow-up of Peter or Tom DeLong will ever do an interview. That would be great. But I cannot speak for these guys. Yeah, I don't think we're going to see Tom anytime soon after that Joe Rogan interview, but that's another story. Yeah, yeah, it really did. Unfortunately, yeah, we've seen him sort of go back into the shadows, which is okay. You know, he's going to be working on the entertainment aspect of all this.

So that's okay. You know, there's a lot of people. Everyone has been beating up onto the stars. And I don't know where I stand on this right now. I know I'm going to get hell for this in the YouTube comments below. But my attitude is I don't know for sure that there is sci-op. I just don't know. Now, it's possible Tom DeLong has been manipulated in various ways.

What I definitely believe is, like, his attitude that the military are the real white hats in all of this is just not realistic. It's not true also. I mentioned this to Peter Levenda, by the way, and his answer was, look, what do you expect? He's trying to cultivate these guys. You're not going to cultivate them by calling them evil incarnate. You want them to work with you. I get that. What I will definitely say is that the establishment media part of it, New York Times, Washington Post, all of the integration.

And that really happened. Christopher Mellon, who's one of the TTSA guys, he's the former CIA, was, I am told, instrumental in getting, Leslie Kane and the New York Times on board. So now, if that's true, then you've got a direct connection to the stars with establishment media. And that's always questionable to me because the media has not left the Mockingbird system. In other words, Operation Mockingbird CIA's media control program, that's stronger than ever. But again, I was just listening again to Peter Levin, and I want to be fair to him. His attitude is he says, look, we know the mainstream media is a corporate tool.

and it's an establishment tool. His attitude is, look, if you want to change public discussion on UFOs, you have to go through the corporate media. So, all right, that's his position. So relating to the stars, you know, I'm just waiting for them to come up with something that makes sense to me. As a business model, that has never made sense. Oh, yeah, I mean, they weren't even able to raise a portion of what they were expecting, which is unfortunate. But, yeah, I agree with you. I think, you know, I look forward to where it goes.

Maybe DeLong will get his dream of building a spaceship of some sort to rival Elon Musk, but maybe not. In the meantime, we might get some really cool UFO docs and books and everything in between. I don't know. I want to say this. I met Tom DeLong a couple of years ago, and I found him to be very gracious and sincere. And I have no reason to think it's otherwise. So I think that he's really doing what he feels has been his best to move this issue forward. So they made a lot of gaffs coming out of the gate with the, you know, displaying the image of the Mylar balloon as a genuine UFO.

I'm like, how did you do that? I've looked into this and I believe that it was a total Bush League mistake. I absolutely believe. I don't think it was disinfo. I think they actually really genuinely screwed up big time and got really embarrassed over it. They got excited. Yeah, I agree. I think they, you know, they were ready and rearing to go. And it just, but you know what, if, if anything, they'll learn from their mistakes. So we'll see. We'll see. Well, in terms of, you know, what the future may hold, Rich, I know we don't have much time here left. But I did want to talk about a couple other things before we wrap it up. Your new website. I mean, this. Yeah, you sprung this on us a few months ago with exclusive content. So tell us a little about Richard Dolan members before we go. Thanks, Ryan. Yes, Richardola Members.com. This is a site now that it's about two months old. It's really quite new. And I have put a great deal of energy and effort into it. I've got at this point actually dozens of video and unique audio and blog entries that are up there for members. There's free content. I mean, there's things that I put up that I want the whole world to see. But I've decided, look, I want to create something, an exclusive web-based content. If someone's

one's interested, they can, you know, join up for a month or a year and become a member and see what's in it for them. I found it to be a very, very positive experience. I could not have done this without Tracy. She's been instrumental in helping me organize this. This is just a lesson in the fact that, like, you can't do things alone. You really need really good, positive support from people who are close to you. And thankfully, I have that now. So as a result of that, the Richard Olen member site is, I just put up two new posts today. including a lot of video and a 1,300 word blog entry. So I'm creating a lot of content.

I'm trying to tweak this and figure out what's the best way to give free content to the world while making it worthwhile for members. And I think we're striking that balance. One of the things that I'm doing is all my radio shows, so the Richard Olin Show, I'm taking control and putting them up on my YouTube channel every week. So that's something for everyone. And a lot of the articles that I write I put up free of charge. But I would encourage anyone who's interested to go to Richard Olin members.

And it's actually turning out better, better than I had hoped it would be. And believe me, I wanted it to be excellent from the beginning. And I actually will say that I think it's exceeded my expectations. So I'm going to have more of that going in the future. That's awesome. And I mean, the other website, Richard Dolan Press, is where you house your own publication. and the publication of other authors as well.

You exist on Richard Lund Press, right? I do. I have you to thank for putting me on the map. Somewhere in the Skies is there and is really one of the best, most unique books that I published with Richard Lund Press over the last five years. Without a doubt, I love your book.

And your work is exactly the kind of work that I like to promote. It's innovative, original content that does things that other books haven't done. And in your case, you did something that, as far as I can tell, is an utterly unique effort, you know, a journalistic exploration of a range of experiences of the UFO phenomenon and how what they experienced and how it affected them. I think, my God, you know, what a need there is in our culture for a work like that. And I'm so grateful that you did it and that I was honored to be able to publish your book. Well, thank you so much.

I mean, yeah, I mean, if you can't contribute something new, what's the thing? the point. So that's the way I look at it. But no, I can't thank you enough for those very kind words. Well, and yeah, but Richard Olin Press has a lot of other very interesting authors, without a doubt, and it's got a lot of my older essays and articles that I've written over the years. They're kind of legacy there. So yeah, I mean, those are the two. And any time there's a new book published, booklet publish, whatever, that's listed on Richard Olin Press website as well. Perfect. And do you have any upcoming events or anything you'd like to give us before we go? Well, you are just so, so considerate of all of that. Yes, I've got a few that are coming up. So I just came back from, we did almost a month in Australia and contact in the desert. But in the near future, I will be in Toronto or near Toronto at what is called the Alien Cosmic Expo. That's the Toronto Airport, Marriott Hotel. In fact, if you go to richardole members.com, the events is for.

freely available, people can just go check it out, get the events tab. A week after that, I'll be still in Canada and Vancouver for the conference owner's Architects of the New Paradigm. And my very good friend Jordan Pease has organized that. That's always interesting. Danny Sheehan will be there, Stephen Bassett will be there, and a number of other very interesting post-disclosure world type events. And beyond that, my goodness, we have the summer and who knows what. I'll have things going on in September, but that's far away. Exactly.

Yeah. Let's not rush anything. Rich, your insight, your historical knowledge, your intuition on what we can expect as we move forward with the future of UFO studies and beyond. It's always amazed me. So I have to thank you for coming on somewhere in the skies. It was such a pleasure. And Ryan, you were so nice for just letting me ramble.

Thank you. That's it for this week's episode. Again, if you'd like exclusive content from Richard Dolan, be sure to check out Richard Dolan members.com. To check out his latest work and to find all the books he's written and published, visit richard dolanpress.com. Be sure to follow Somewhere in the Skies on Twitter at SomewhereSkies, where I post up-to-date announcements, news articles of interest, and even some exclusive contests for followers. Same goes for our very active Facebook group. Just search for Somewhere in the Skies podcast on Facebook.

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