Somewhere in the Skies - Haunted History with Allison Jornlin

Episode Date: October 22, 2018

On episode 79 of SOMEWHERE IN THE SKIES, we continue our Halloween Series with a listener story we've titled, "The Demon Upstairs." Then we take a haunted history tour of Milwaukee and it's many ghostly tales with this week's special guest, Allison Jornlin. As the leading haunted history researcher and tour guide in all of Milwaukee, Allison runs us through some of the most compelling cases of ghostly activity to come out of this Midwestern city. From the tragic death of a young boy beckoned to a lake by an evil spirit to an entire major league baseball team encountering paranormal activity. We hear about a private organization that educates priests in exorcisms and deliverance and we ask the question; can a ghost leave behind footprints? This and much more as we continue to count down to Halloween!  Guest Bio: Allison Jornlin founded Milwaukee’s first haunted history tour in 2008. When she’s not teaching fourth graders at a local elementary school, she conducts ghost tours in the Third Ward and down Milwaukee’s haunted main street, Wisconsin Avenue.  She assists businesses and paranormal investigation teams with in-depth historical research.  As an admirer of anomalies researcher Charles Fort, she frequently provides expert commentary on a variety of Fortean topics for the podcast, See You on the Other Side. Her tours can be found at: www.milwaukeeghosts.com If you have a ghost, monster, or strange story you'd like to tell on this October series, contact Ryan through the website: www.somewhereintheskies.com ALIENCON lands in Baltimore on Nov. 9th-11th. For discount tickets, use promo code: SKIES at check out. Visit: www.TheAlienCon.com/register Patreon: www.patreon.com/somewhereskies Website: www.somewhereintheskies.com Official Store: CLICK HERE Order Ryan's Book by CLICKING HERE Twitter: @SomewhereSkies Instagram: @SomewhereSkiesPod Opening and Closing Theme Song, "Ephemeral Reign" by Per Kiilstofte SOMEWHERE IN THE SKIES is produced by Third Kind Productions, in association with eOne Entertainment SOMEWHERE IN THE SKIES is sponsored by HelloFresh. To receive 50% off your first order, use promo code: SOMEWHERE50 at checkout by visiting www.HelloFresh.ca Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/somewhere-in-the-skies. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Greetings Skywatchers. This is Ryan Sprague, the host of the Summer in the Sky's podcast, and I want you to join me at AlienCon. AlienCon lands in Baltimore, Maryland on November 9th, 10th, and 11th. Explore the Unexplained with your favorite ancient aliens contributors, UFO researchers, and stars from hit sci-fi and sci-fact television shows and films. I'll personally be giving my solo presentation, and I'll also be joining my good friend and colleague, Jason McClellan of Roke Planet to moderate and take part in panel discussions throughout the weekend. It's going to be a fun and informative weekend for families, serious researchers, and all curious minds alike. And right now, you can get an exclusive somewhere in the sky's discount on all tickets by visiting the aliencon.com slash register and using the code skies at checkout.

We hope to see you at the Baltimore Convention Center in November, and now on to the show. Welcome to another special episode of our Halloween series. Today, we talk to haunted historian Alison Jornland. There is something called the Pope Leo the 13th Institute, and it is a private nonprofit organization whose stated purpose is to educate priests in the Holy Ministry of Exorcism and Deliverance. Right here in Milwaukee, we have an organization that trains Exorcists. I thought you had to go all the way to Rome for that. Not the case. There's a lot of things going on beneath the surface of the city that nobody has any idea about.

This is Somewhere in the Skies with Ryan Sprigg. Welcome to Somewhere in the Skies. I'm your host, Ryan Sprigg. We continue our Halloween series this week with another listener story that is sure to give you the creeps. This is the story of the demon upstairs. This was an experience I had when I was a teenager. It was summer, and I was spending the weekend over at my friend's house. I arrived mid-afternoon and was told that my friend had promised the neighbors

she would babysit their children later that night. Here I should say that my friend lived in a duplex. She, on the left, her neighbors, on the right. Nightfall came quick, and off we went to babysit. Everything was normal at first. Bedtime routine went fine. There was no protesting about going to sleep. The parents had to have one child sleep downstairs

and the other upstairs to prevent them trying to stay up all night, talking and playing. They had only been asleep for what seemed 15 minutes. When I heard a loud thud, thinking that maybe their son was up playing and having trouble going to sleep, I walked up there to tuck him back in. However, I found him fast asleep. I questioned if maybe I was just hearing things, and went downstairs to hang out with my friend. I didn't even have a chance to sit down all the way when another loud bang happened.

Only this sounded like someone opened a window and fell inside, which would have been impossible, as there was no stairs, or patios, upstairs. I felt afraid at first, but rationalized it must have been the boy. He must have been pretending to sleep when I went up there the first time. So back upstairs I went and straight into the room where he slept. The only thing, however, there was no running sound or jumping sound that we as children do when we're trying to sneak around and play past bedtime, and we hear our parents coming.

No, it was just silent. There he was, still snoozing away, where I saw him before. So I said his name and said, hey, I can hear you up here. You know you're supposed to stay in bed and sleep, No more playing, okay? But there was no response. He just continued sleeping. He hadn't even heard me.

So I went down the stairs and decided to sit on the bottom stair. Determined to catch him in the act. My friend came around the corner and asked me what was up, so I told her. That's when we heard another loud bang. Same as before. Knowing now it was not the children, we worried if maybe there could have been an intruder.

So together we went upstairs and checked every room. Again, we found nothing. I was scared by now, and we proceeded to go back downstairs a final time. That's when the front door opened, and I jumped out of my skin, which also started the children's parents who had just arrived home. We tried to explain everything to them. However, they tried to convince us it was all in our imagination. So off we went to go back over to my friend's side of the duplex.

As soon as we walked through the door, I told my friend's mother what had happened, To my surprise, she looked me dead in the eye and said, Oh, I know. It's been happening all night for the last two nights, and it's gotten loud. And if I can remember correctly, I believe she said it had been starting some time shortly after midnight. I looked at my friend and asked if she wanted to stay up with me, but she declined. She had enough and was exhausted herself and wanted to sleep. So I stayed awake with her mother downstairs. Sure enough, the same loud bangs happened here, upstairs, as had happened next door,

Only an hour or so ago. This was so much worse, though. First a bang. Then what sounded like a chair being lifted and dropped on the floor above our heads? The sound came from everywhere, and you could feel it all over within you. My head began to hurt. I felt a bit nauseous. I asked her what happened if we went upstairs.

She said nothing. Nothing would happen. That we just wouldn't hear anything. I had her go with me, and sure enough, it was silent. As soon as I had descended, the stairs, however, and went to turn the corner to the living room, the loudest bang happened. This sounded like a king-sized four-poster bed was slammed down on the floor above. The sound penetrated so deeply that even today, as I sit and write this,

I could not only hear it, but still feel it. My friend's mother began to worry. She had told me that it had not been this bad and suggested we needed to begin to pry, and so we did. finally after what felt like hours since this entire thing began, the sounds lessened and dullly completely stopped, leaving us with the silence so loud it almost hurt your ears, and then our ears began to ring. And that was it.

I hope to never go through another experience like that for the rest of my life. Thank you so much to this listener for sharing the story. Next time I hear my upstairs neighbors jumping around and dragging furniture at 3 a.m. Maybe I should call a priest. instead of hitting the ceiling with a broom. If you have a story you'd like to share on the show, you can reach me through the contact tab on the website to discuss further.

Somewhere in the skies.com. And now onto this week's guest. Alison Jornlin is a recipient of the Milwaukee Paranormal Conference Wisconsin Researcher of the Year Award. She has been investigating hauntings and other strange phenomena for over 20 years, inspired by Chicago's Richard Crow, who kick-started U.S. Ghost Tourism in 1973, Allison developed Milwaukee's first haunted history tour in 2008. Since then, she's led numerous haunted history tours and presented talks on a variety of 14 topics, poltergeist, UFOs, cryptids, and demonic possession.

She frequently works with paranormal teams to investigate historic buildings, providing witness interviews and archival research to facilitate their efforts. She can also be heard on the See You on the Other Side podcast. Today, we talk about some of the most famous hauntings she's researched, including the tragic death of a young boy being beckoned into a lake, a haunting experienced by an entire Major League baseball team. And we even ask the question, can a ghost leave footprints?

as we take a walk through haunted history with Allison Jornland. I'm here today with Allison Jornland, and we are just going to run the gamut. We, you and I connected maybe a couple months ago, right? That's right. Right, over Indigenous People's Day. Yeah, of all things, right. Right, right. I know New York has an active Indigenous People's Day movement, although they have a haven't gotten it passed yet, but we were able to get it passed in Milwaukee County. Thanks to

your help. That's incredible. And I know you did a wonderful campaign of getting people to send photos your way. And one of those was a gentleman in Hawaii, who I'm, my girlfriend and I are huge fans of. Who was that? Would you mind give it a little? O'uoka Kapanui, yes. He's a great ghost historian from Oahu. So, yeah, just I was fortunate enough to meet him back in 2015. And we're still friends. And I would really love to have him on the other side podcast.

Yeah. Because he is just a wealth of knowledge about Hawaiian culture and ancient. stories, just incredible. We were just so lucky when we, my husband and I were in, we're in Honolulu in summer 2015 and we met Lopac and his wife and they took us all around the island, showing us sacred places. And it was just one of those one of a kind experiences that you'll never forget. Oh, absolutely. First of all, I'm so jealous. You met him face to But I have to agree, Hawaii was one of those places where you can just feel it everywhere you go. I mean, there's so much history.

And, yeah, we could do a million episodes on that. And I'm sure we will. I know. It's a magical place. Yeah, it really is. In every sense of the word. Absolutely. So, yeah, I kind of today, Alison, I wanted to cover some of the stuff you're very knowledgeable in, both in the paranormal and the 14 realms.

Yeah. So I guess my first question for you is, did you have any sort of pivotal experience with the paranormal that started you on this path, as some of us often do? Well, I started as a child. So I really didn't have a pivotal experience. It was more like being so enamored with the idea that. you know, there might be something else to our existence, you know, something more that we can't see. And so that was a really compelling idea to me. And also these questions, these eternal questions of, you know, who we are and why are we here?

I mean, that was really what drew me in the most and got me to really delve into all the strange books that were at the school library and the community library. And so a lot of researchers have started out that way. Now, when I look back, I do know that I had, you know, as a child, some experiences with synchronicity that felt magical. I also had an experience with, with, I would like, I was interested in psychic phenomena. So I would make people play the number game with me. Oh, yes. You know, think of a number, any number, and then try to, you know, I tried to divine what it was. and I do remember distinctly having an experience where somebody thought of a number and I was able to figure out what that number was and while that was happening to me, I felt the tingling sensation in the middle of my forehead, which I remember that experience now because although I was reading about it, I didn't know, you know, I was reading about psychic phenomena and the paranormal. I don't think I knew about the third eye. So for me,

that's like, whoa, what happened there? Was I really making a psychic connection with someone? Because, you know, I felt that tingling in the area of the third eye. And that was a time when I didn't really have that knowledge. So that's compelling to me. And it's kind of a template for the way I go about my paranormal investigations. I mean, I'm not your typical paranormal investigator in that, you know, I'm not equipment based. I'm not even metaphysically based. I mean, What my mission is is to search through history and find these compelling stories that had no explanation and still have no explanation today. And seeing if there's any connections between what happened then and what's happening now. I mean, to me, that is so, you know, so telling to me, if you can have something that happened then and nobody remembers it and it's still happening now. So that's kind of like my holy grail to search for a phenomena such as that, that it still continues and was recorded in history, but everybody's knowledge of it has faded, but now people are experiencing it anew. I mean, to me, you know, if you can find those patterns, if you can find, you know, something that still exists, to me, that is a kind of proof. I couldn't agree more. And that's sort of the approach I take in my facet of study with UFO.

is it's the stories, you know, without them, we have nothing. There's no, there's no data to analyze. There's no, you know, whenever I see these ghost shows, I hate seeing all these gadgets that they put around the house. I mean, that's cool, but it's not going to, first of all, if I were a disembodied spirit, let's say, I'm not going to see a camera and be like, ooh, you know, let me go wave at these people. or let me talk into their meter or their recorder. It's just...

Right, especially if they're from the past, right? Exactly. I mean, they might not recognize what those things are, but they recognize a person. Right. And it's sort of condescending in a way, if you think about it. It's like, I'm a spirit. I'm not going to talk into your little recorder or knock over one little, you know, pen off of the table. Like, let's get real here.

Right. I'm not your performing monkey. Yeah, exactly. Like, if you're here... I want eternal soul. Treat me as such. Exactly. Thank you. I'm glad we're on the same page with that. I want to sort of get into the inception of what you're doing in your neck of the woods with your ghost tours. So in 2008, you founded Milwaukee's first haunted history tour. That's right.

I love the idea of the history of places. Whenever I go somewhere, my girlfriend and I always want to do a ghost tour, find out the history. do a little, you know, legend tripping, as it were. Absolutely. How did the idea for the haunted tour come about? So my brother and I, as you mentioned, my brother and I, and his bandmate, Wendy Lynn Stats, do this great podcast called a CEO on the other side. But he got into it around the same time,

I got interested, I believe, because my mother used to always, I'm from Milwaukee, Wisconsin, and she always used to listen to the Chicago radio stations. And during Halloween, they would have this ghost historian on named Richard Crow. And he had actually started Haunted History Tours in Chicago in 1973, which was the same year the haunted tours actually started up in London. So I think those are the first haunted history tours. And so Chicago's not that far away from Milwaukee. Milwaukee. And I always used to, during Halloween, she would put the radio on and she'd like,

come on, kids, it's Richard Crow. And then we'd huddle up next to the radio and listen to haunted tales of Chicagoland. And I think that's what really inspired us the most to see that that he was taking folklore seriously, not brushing it under the rug, but studying it and displaying it and performing it for everyone to see as a part of history. And so, yeah, in 1973, that's a long time ago. Yeah.

And I was like, hey, I became a teacher. And I was like, I got these summers available. and maybe I should make my own part-time job. And nobody, you know, nobody had started haunted history tours in Milwaukee before that point. And I'm like, that is just a shame that Chicago's had one since 1973. And I guess I just got tired of waiting. And it took a number of years to, you know, get the history of the city down and to, you know, just find enough stories in a small location. because we sometimes offer bus tours, which are easier to put together, but our staple is the walking tour.

And so when you design a walking tour, you have to have enough stories in like a mile area. I mean, you can't make people walk that much. Sometimes I even complain if it's like 1.2, which mine is right now. Yeah. But so it takes a while. And I'm just glad that, you know, I was able to do it because it gives people a weekly forum during the summers, you know, and up until Halloween, to talk about their stories. Because, you know, that's how I've been able to continue to collect stories is by having that weekly opportunity to come face to face with people and giving them a place, a safe place where they can talk about their own experiences. In terms of that, for some of us who may have never been to the Midwest or whatnot, what, what sort of areas do you cover with the,

tour. I've heard mentioned the third ward and certain other areas. Could you sort of describe that paint a picture for us of what the two are embodies? Right. So the third ward of Milwaukee is a very historic section of the city and actually used to be known as the bloody third. Because for a long time, it was an Irish enclave. And there were some rough and tumble carry. who inhabited that area. I can imagine. Yes. And so today it's really this charming arts district, but it's great to bring the past back.

And all these people that have been long forgotten. I mean, I found this article, Ryan, which is all about third ward nicknames. Like you could, like back in the day, back in the 1800s, early 1900s, you know, people went by certain nicknames that really embodied their character. Like the leader of one of the reigning Irish gangs was named John Boiler Walsh because of his horrible temper. Okay, okay. So, you know, my tour is about bringing back metaphorical ghosts. Like, unfortunately, Boiler Walsh doesn't haunt.

I really wish he did. But so bringing back those metaphorical ghosts. and also talking about modern-day paranormal reports as well. And the third ward of the city is just a little bit south of our downtown proper. And so just south of Wisconsin Avenue, although back in the day, Wisconsin Avenue was our main, our haunted main street, as I call it, was part of the third ward historically. So, yeah, and we're right between the river and Lake Michigan. So there's a lot of great stories from the river and from the lake as well. Oh, I can imagine. Yeah, there's so much, I would assume, happens with all people traveling between the rivers.

Yeah, and some big tragedies occurred. Pivotal tragedies that really shape the history of Milwaukee. So I talk about those as well because, again, these events are long forgotten. And people have no idea of what the history is. I mean, I think it's different here than in places like Europe where people are more connected to their history or in indigenous societies where people are more connected to ancestors. And I'd like to, you know, it's more than just the ghost. Of course, I love the ghost, right? But it's about connecting people to history.

Which I think often gets lost when we look at legend tripping or ghost hunting. We're so focused on trying to hunt that ghost instead of really. hearing the history of why they might still be there. That's what I enjoy is the people who are willing to go to the local library and look up this, let's say, this establishment that's supposedly haunted and actually find out who that spirit might be instead of saying, you know, tap twice on the table if you're here. No, who are you? Why are you here? What led you to this point?

You know, let's get to know that ghost before we ask these things of them, you know, I mean. Right. I mean, I think the ghost would probably like it if you did your homework and knew how to address them by name. You know, think about like living people and, you know, are they going to respond better to, you know, somebody who's personable who knows their name and knows a little bit about them or somebody that that just kind of comes in and harasses them and knows nothing? Yeah. Yeah. That's the sign of an irresponsible investigator, I would say. So on your tours, Alison, have you ever had anything really interesting or paranormal happen where it sort of left the people there being like, oh, my God, this is real? Oh, man. I wish that I could. I mean, I have experiences where people have said that, you know, they caught things on film.

But, yeah, it's nothing like, it's nothing like other places in the world where the ghost like scratches you or. Yeah. Or it makes you faint or anything like that. Unfortunately, if I can drum something like that up, I certainly will. But the tour as we do it really helps people to see the entire city in a way they haven't before. So that's the way that it's transformative. I mean, I'm hoping one day that I get maimed by a ghost. That's one of my New Year's resolutions, actually, a quality maiming from the supernatural.

Because, you know, that's really compelling. You can show people the evidence of what happened. Right. But, yeah, I think even more compelling in that is to come away from a tour and have your worldview changed. And I think that's what we've been able to do. You know, and I've taken several ghost tours now. It's something I sort of just started doing because I've also. also just started traveling for the first time in my life. I have been in New York State my entire life.

I met my girlfriend who is a worldly traveler, has spent years in different continents. So I have her to thank for that. And we do. We try to hit up these ghost tours in every town. And I find the historical aspects so much more rewarding than seeing, you know, an apparition in a window or something like that. Right. I mean, that would be awesome. And, uh, but I would. But I would. But I, but I You know, the thing about being on this side of the tour, you know, because I've been on the other side, too, because I'm like you, anytime we go anywhere, I'm like, oh, we've got to do everything haunted that there is to do in this town. I mean, you get bored on vacation. Let's be honest, where you're just hanging in the hotel sometimes. I am always looking for the weird.

I mean, that is the pinnacle of entertainment for me. So I want to go on the haunted tour. I want to stay in the haunted hotel, in the haunted room. I want to eat at the haunted restaurants. I want to do it all. So I'm pretty addicted to the weird. But I'm on the other side now offering the tours. And I really see how people are influenced by the media to expect, you know, bleeding walls, for example.

I'm like, if I had bleeding walls, oh, man, I'd take you right there right now. But I think the paranormal in reality, with my scant experiences of it, is much subtler than that. But you certainly as a tour provider feel pushed to embellish or to make things up, which I will never do. But you can really feel that from people that they want something so dramatic. And, you know, they're not attuned to the subtler more life-changing aspects. Yeah. That's such a good point. You know, I recently heard an interview with a gentleman who haunts houses for a living in terms of special effects and this and that.

And, you know, he won't divulge who he's worked with. But he says some of the most prominent haunted houses around the world are using his skills and capabilities to amplify and exaggerate hauntings, which is extremely disheartening for someone like you, I would imagine, or paranormal investigators who are just trying to tell the stories and show, you know, the stories are living. You know, that's what matters. Living history. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that is, I think, a response to what the public wants.

They want ever more dramatic experiences. Like, you know, when you watch the evolution of the movies, for instance, you can see that as well. Now, I love today's movies. I love car chases and explosions. You know, let's just be honest. But you can see that they're always pushing the envelope. And, you know, for the paranormal, I think, you know, we've got to come up with a higher standard because we don't want to be. We don't want to be faking it at all.

I think there's something compelling there, you know, whether that ghost grabs you by the throat or not. You know, there's something to be learned there that you can take away if you just open yourself up to it and listen. So, yeah, I mean, I think I heard, I listened to that interview. Or, you know, I'm, I'm familiar with what you're talking about, the person who, who, who, haunts these supposedly truly haunted locations. Yeah. And, you know, once you go down that road, it's like, how do you get that credibility back? Yeah.

I mean, where does it end? Yeah. Right. And even places, you know, in town here that that it's like, here's my catch 22. This is like a terrible situation that I'm in. Okay. So I started, I started investing in ghosts in Milwaukee, which is very conservative. Midwestern place.

And so it's really hard to get people to talk about their ghost stories. You really have to drag it out of them. Okay. So that makes things difficult for me, doesn't it? But on the other hand, businesses are starting to realize that, hey, you know, we thought that hauntings would drive people away, but actually it brings them in. They're good for business. Oh, we don't want that to happen either because then they start auditing.

And you can't believe anything they say because you know that that's a major part of their business. And hey, these places might very well be haunted. But then you're like, how do I separate the truth from, you know, the razzle-dazzle that you're giving me? So, yeah, I much prefer it when I have to drag it from people or that I hear, this is my favorite, when I hear from others that places are actively hiding their ghosts. Like, they tell workers there or volunteers there, we can talk about the ghost stories here, but it stays here. Oh, that is so good.

Right. That is such a good point. I've been to many UFO conferences, and you'll see these people get on stage and talk about, you know, the subtler aspects of the UFO phenomenon. Very skeptical, very objective. And then you get, like, one whiskey in them or one beer. And then they start unraveling and telling you what they really know and who they've really talked to.

And yeah, there's almost that inhibition to, you know, we want to get it out there, but we kind of don't. And that is the first question people always ask me, you know, like, do you think towns that have a UFO crash history? Do they embrace that or do they want to, you know, shove that in the back of history to never be talked about again? You look at something like Roswell. That town only exists now on the money they bring in from a UFO festival every year. Hundreds of thousands of dollars are pumped into that every year. The hotels get packed, this, that are local restaurants. So I can imagine, you know, somewhere like Milwaukee would want to embrace that in one way, but also shy away from it.

Because no one wants to be the ghost city or the ghost town. because I'm sure it would attract a lot of crazy people in one aspect, but then also, like you said, it's a catch-22. Absolutely. Right. Once money gets involved, you know, it's really super tough. And, you know, and people will look at me while, you know, I started a Honda History tour, but, you know, you can't really make people volunteer to be a tour guide.

So you do have to add a monetary aspect in there. unfortunately, but I would understand if somebody would think, you know, what I'm doing is a problem. I mean, I agree. It's kind of like TV, for example, you know, if somebody offered you a TV deal, well, would you turn it down? You know, because they're offering you a job where you could, you could investigate the paranormal 24-7. Right. But on the other hand, you know it's for TV, which is all about that razzle-dazzle. And that's what they're going to be wanting.

And, of course, things are going to be augmented because we all know that the paranormal, it is elusive, you're not going to get it to perform on call. So it's, again, another tough situation. Until we can get enough money from the academic sectors to be able to properly study. these phenomena, we're going to be in these catch-22 impossible choice situations. Yeah, absolutely. You know, and like you said, like TV, they have the resources to bring it to a wider audience, to get you that high-end technology to try to capture these things. But like you said, we view and experience the paranormal from our hearts and our minds,

more than some little gadget. And with that also comes the stories. And the stories are often much more dramatic than seeing the ghost ever could. So I kind of, would you mind if we went through a couple of these really interesting ghost stories from Milwaukee? Sure. Yeah. One of the ones I found very intriguing was about a young boy named Raymond Nott's and the tragedy that struck him. Could you? Yeah.

Poor little Raymond. Oh, man. So young. Yeah, that's a story which really when I found it, you know, I was like, why do, why don't more people don't, why is it that nobody knows this story? Because it's, it's probably the most terrifying story I've ever found. So, nine-year-old Raymond, he, he was, you know, a little boy in Milwaukee in 1920. and all of a sudden his parents noticed that he seemed paralyzed by fear. Now, his parents were estranged.

It was unusual for the time that they were living separately and they eventually divorced. But his mother's last recollection of Raymond was that he was just huddled in the corner of a room. and his eyes were constantly roaming the corners, as if something was after him. And, you know, she tried, of course, to speak to him about what was going on, but he refused to speak about it except for repeating that there was a white shadow that was following him. Now, when Raymond's father came to pick him up and take him home that night, he also noticed that. that Raymond was actually, wouldn't walk side by side with the father, but was actually, you know, staying several steps back. And in retrospect, you know, when I think about that,

I think about, well, he's got this thing following him. You think he would run up to his father and, you know, want his father to hold his hand or, you know, just to be right there next to him to try to get rid of this thing. thing. But instead, it seems to me that, okay, he's got this entity following him. You know, maybe this was an act of heroism on Raymond's part, and he was trying to keep the creature away from his father. And that's why he was staying so far back from him. But yeah, so what happened then is the father took him home. And Raymond, again, just stayed in the living room, huddled

in the corner and then his father eventually, you know, made him go to bed and had to like force him into the bedroom. He was so frightened of leaving the living room. And then into the night, the father was awakened by Raymond who was, well, actually, laughing or making some kind of strange noises. And so the father went in to the bedroom and he heard Raymond talking to somebody saying, you know, you can't get me. And then laughing, as if he was in some kind of trance. And then his father was shaking him.

And his father reported that he had said, oh, daddy was so beautiful. I was swimming with the fishes. Oh, okay. Yeah. Right. So the father, you know, isn't quite sure to deal with what is happening. You know, these to him were just the imagination of a little boy, right? The harmless imaginings or maybe a nightmare.

But then, unfortunately, the next day, well, you got to get up and go to work. And that's what Raymond's father did. And he left Raymond in the care of a neighbor lady. And unfortunately, she lost sight of him. He took his fishing pole and he walked to Lake Michigan and disappeared. Now, later, when a search was launched for him, they did find him washed up on the shore of Lake Michigan. And in the ensuing investigation, they were able to determine that Raymond must have just walked into Lake Michigan. You know, not that he was overcome by some rogue wave or something like that or fell in and hit his head, but that when he arrived at Lake Michigan, they felt that, you know, the likely scenario was he just put down his fishing pole and walked into Lake Michigan to drown, walked to his death.

So what is going on there? Yeah. You know, when you read that story, oh, man, goes right to your, right to your, right. your heart. It does. It's so sad. And then you have to wonder what kind of a, like, entity or, uh, spirit would want to drive a little boy to feasibly commit suicide at such a young age. And that's where you're getting to the whole idea of, are there good and bad spirits? Or, yeah, like, there's nothing involving this story that makes me think that whatever was communicating with this little boy, uh, had good intentions.

obviously. Yeah. What do you make of that, Alison? What do you make of why he may have done this? Well, yeah, I just don't know. I know that he told his dad, this is a quote from Raymond, all the way home, that white shadow crept right along behind me. Something is going to happen. I can feel it.

Ah, wow. Yeah, I mean, this was not some kind of newspaper hoax or anything like that. I mean, I was able to find the house where Raymond lived. I was able to, you know, confirm the identity of his father. And because his father ends up in the newspapers 20 years later, he never got back together with the mother. They stayed estranged, even in tragedy. Yeah. And someone had just found his body in the street.

And he was listed in the newspaper because people were looking for any next of kin. for Raymond's father. So, uh, tragedy all around. Yeah. Yeah. So usually when I think of the paranormal, I don't think of these malevolent entities, but they could be out there. I mean, I, it's, I was really surprised that when this summer, um, I prepared, uh, another presentation. Um, every year I do a Milwaukee Fordiana presentation for, presentation for the Milwaukee Paranormal Conference. And so in my research, I found all this historical information, newspaper articles and books and other things that pointed to a long history in Milwaukee of exorcism by the Catholic Church.

And so that was just startling to me to find out that, you know, these, these, uh, these, uh, traditional rituals that you see portrayed, you know, in the movie The Exorcist and this year in the TV series The Exorcist, they really have a basis. In fact, and not only that, they have a lot of local connections. Oh, man. I can only imagine that, like, opened up the floodgates for your research and your historical research. Wow. Yeah, and the most startling thing was finding that not only have these things occurred here, that we've had exorcisms, which made the papers here. And then so you have to ask yourself, well, if there's so many that made the papers, what didn't make the papers? You know, it's a lot more likely that there was a lot

more going on. And then I found out that in Milwaukee, actually, specifically, yeah, on Blumon Road Here in Milwaukee, so if you're a local, you'll know where that is. That there is something called the Pope Leo the 13th Institute, and it is a private nonprofit organization whose stated purpose is to educate priest in the Holy Ministry of Exorcism and Deliverance. Right here in Milwaukee, we have an organization that trains Exorcists. I thought you had to go all the way to Rome for that. Not the case.

There's a lot of things going on beneath the surface. of the city that nobody has any idea about. Wow, that's, that's like a movie within itself. Like this sort of Claddenstein group training exorcists in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. Yeah. I'm going to start writing it. I don't know. I'll give you credit, I promise, but.

Awesome. I need to get off UFOs for a little bit and write something else. To demons. Yeah, let's go to demons. Well, you know, I spent half my life as a baseball player, actually. Alison. That was a huge passion of mine. Yeah, all throughout my entire life up through, even college even. And I found this really interesting. You came across a story about Charles Fister and the Milwaukee Brewers. Now, what is this connection? This really fascinated me.

Can you tell us a little about this? Yeah. So the Fister Hotel in Milwaukee, Oh man, it is one of our most beautiful hotels. It was built in 1893, and it's probably Milwaukee's best known haunted location. And this is because it keeps making the papers with these stories of Charles Fister. And who is he terrorizing? He's terrorizing major league baseball players. And, okay, so this story. goes back a little bit further, though, because many witnesses have reported seeing Charles Fister,

the founder of the Fister Hotel, in the hotel, since around the time when he died of natural causes in 1927. So they have seen him, though, appearing on the grand staircase above the lobby, and they've seen him strolling in the gallery in the minstrel's ballroom. They've seen him even riding the elevator. Now, people that used to know Charles Fister who work there really had a fondness for him and everybody called him Uncle Charlie. So these early reports that go back decades really talk about this gentlemanly figure who is just overseeing the hospitality of the hotel.

And then in 2001, that all changes when Adrian Beltray of the L.A. Dodgers stays there one night with his team. They came in late after a game, and he said that pretty much as soon as he got to the room, there was pounding, coming down the hallway and then on his door. But, you know, major league players do haze each other. And, you know, there's kids around who might be. getting into some mischief, you don't know. So he didn't think anything of that. And then he just decided that he was going to kick back and relax. So he put on the TV, turned up the air conditioner.

But he couldn't get any rest because the air conditioner and the TV repeatedly switched itself off. And at some point he had just had enough and decided, well, I'm just going to go to bed. And as he laid down and started to just, you know, that moment when you're almost gone, drifting off to sleep, pound, pound, pound would come behind the headboard. So it was like somebody would not let him sleep because he claimed that this went on for continuously, you know, whenever he tried to drift off to sleep, he would hear this racket behind his headboard that would startle him awake and that this went on for those three

nights and he only was able to get two hours of sleep. and he was quite upset too when he got some ribbing from his teammates when they discovered that he had begun taking a bat to bed with him for protection. Oh, wow. So since then, this was reported in Sports Illustrated in 2001, and since then, there have just been so many stories about the haunting at the Fister Hotel from Major League Baseball players that it's really overshadowed any other reports from the hotel. And there's a book called Field of Screams, which is a great book about haunted baseball. And they have a whole chapter in there about the Fister Hotel. That's so cool. You know, and you have to wonder, like, is this their way of trying to make the visiting team lose the next day?

Well, that's what I joke about that. Obviously, Charles Fister is a big fan of the Milwaukee Brewers. And he's using his spiritual influence to make sure the other team loses. But actually, I'm going to level with you. Okay. That's a joke. And it gets a big laugh on the tour every time. And I used to tell the real story.

But then I felt like, okay, Ryan, when I find a story that nobody else has reported it on, I feel personally connected to it and I feel sympathy for the people that were involved, you know, or empathy more likely. And so there was something that happened at the Fister Hotel in, I'm just going to be vague, in the 1980s that I think might be connected. Now, I joke about Charles Fister and for a while I did tell the real story on the tour, but then I thought, well, you know what? I don't know if I'm really respecting the memory of this person. So I'm just going to keep in the joke. And so now I'm working in a book. And in the book, I felt like, you know, I should comb clean and tell the real story.

So it's weird. You know, I don't make things up. But, you know, sometimes I feel to be respectful to the spirits, you got to hold things back. I get that. Yeah. So in the 1980s, there was a very. disturbed young man who thought that he was going to lose his job and he had had you know mental issues in the past and he rented a room at the fister hotel and he decided that that was it he wrote his suicide note

and he crawled out onto the ledge outside of his window and he just kept crawling until um he He fell down, fall down many, many stories and died. Now, he happened to fall onto a ledge that was outside another hotel room. And in the hotel room were two players from the Minnesota Twins. Now, at some point, they recognized that there was this person out on the ledge. and they thought it was some drunk that on a lark had crawled out onto the ledge. And so they opened the window and they were calling out to him. And you could imagine some of the things that might have been said.

You know, because they thought he was a drunk. They didn't know about the tragedy that had just unfolded. And one of the players actually was like, well, I'm going out there. and almost crawled onto the ledge to get the guy. But then cooler heads did prevail and they called authorities. And then at that point, you know, not until much later, then did they find out what had actually happened. Now, to me, that seems more connected to Major League Baseball than Charles Fister.

And, yeah, perhaps the thing that's going on here is that, you know, that person who had died or was in the process of dying, you know, somehow was entrained on these major league players, perhaps because of something that was said, you know, it's unknown why somebody haunts. Yeah. But, you know, certainly there's an emotional connection there. So the other thing that I found from my investigations of the Fister Hotel is that most of the major league baseball player sightings, or experiences actually happen in the newer part of the hotel, which was added on in the 1960s.

And that's where the suicide occurred. Okay, okay, wow. That's generally reported. Okay. So I could imagine, no hotel, yeah. Yeah, you got, so, yeah, the old hotel, you would think that's where Charles Fister would reside because that's where he lived in life until his death in 1927. But, yeah, like, what would cause a haunting of the tower?

Yeah. And looks like I found it. That's, see, that's wonderful research, Allison. I mean, like you said, we would think it would come from the older part with more history. But this clearly, this suicide is an unresolved issue, you know, with the people involved, obviously. And something I would assume the hotel would not want out to the public. Right. And I gave you an exclusive here.

I was just going to say, we have changed that today on ITF auxiliary. But I appreciate you telling us that. Because like you said, the honest truth behind these stories is what is going to make us respect the researcher even more. So, no, I appreciate that. Well, something else, another sort of exclusive that you have brought forth in your presentations is the idea that a ghost can actually leave footprints. Oh, yeah.

This is very interesting. We hear sometimes of residual effects of a haunting, but a footprint. You've got to tell me more about this. So what happened in 1924? Okay. So this 1924 case, I found it in the old newspapers, of course. It was written up in many, many different newspapers during that time. And it involves the household of Miss.

Many plants. Now, Miss Minnie, she lived kind of in a part of the city that wasn't very well developed. So she was a little bit at that time. It was a little bit remote. And she started experiencing these strange phenomena where at night the house just erupted in racket. There was no way to get any sleep because of the pounding, a constant pounding. and shaking in the house.

Now, then her son-in-law was grabbed by invisible hands on one occasion and severely beaten. And so she decided, oh, man, I have got to do something and what are you going to do? You call the cops. So she called in police. And they did, several police officers did experience seeing weird lights that seemed to, from the ground and then then rise up over the roof and disappear. And they also heard the mysterious wrappings. And then when officers were at the scene, they were unable to catch any perpetrator of this

nightly harassment. But they did see that the strange events did indeed repeat themselves. And on one occasion, outside of the house, they did notice these very large footprint. It was actually a size 11EE footprint in the snow. And so in some kind of Cinderella-type hunt, they did go around the neighborhood, going door to door, trying to find the perpetrator with these big feet. Wow. And they did not, they were not able to, you know, find anyone whose feet matched that description. Now, of course, after this, you know, the, you know, the.

The investigation came to an end. I mean, it was inconclusive. There's nothing more that they could do. They can't find a perpetrator. They're seeing these strange things, but there's no way to, you know, document that, really. I mean, there's nothing you can do. So they stopped coming. And Minnie and her family was just left alone.

And so that was the end of the story for me for a while because, you know, I couldn't find any more articles or any more information. And that's the most frustrating part of the research is that you get, you know, some tantalizing tidbits and then you really want the rest of the story. So in this case, though, I did get the rest of the story because I blogged about it. And years later, someone in the plant's family was doing some genealogical research. And he was just Googling different names of his family members. And lo and behold, he finds my book. blog article. Of course. And he calls me. And he tells me that he's just shocked because he knew that something went on in his family.

But it was always kept hush-hush about about, oh, Aunt Minnie, wasn't she crazy? Yeah. But he dug a little deeper into it and was able to find out some things that were really startling to me. So as I was able to provide for him, he never knew that the police were involved. But he did know that there were these strange wrappings that would keep everyone up in the house all night long because, of course, Minnie was always terrified. And she would try to get members of her family to stay overnight with her as she aged and was left alone. And so, of course, family members would try to oblige. But when you have a full-time job, you cannot be in a situation where you kept up every night all night long. And so they were only able to do that for a few days at a time.

And most of the time, she was left alone with this terror. Now, the interesting thing this relative was able to tell me was that Minnie had had a very, very tumultuous abusive relationship with her husband, who had died some 10 years before these events were recorded. But he felt that really this was her husband coming back to terrorize her. And it's not known why there's this gap in the appearance of the specter. But, you know, perhaps it's just because on that side, you know, time is different than it is here. But he really feels that this was Minnie's husband coming back to terrorize her and abuse her even after death. And he told me that what were the size of this husband's shoes? 11E.

Oh, no. So for me, that was exciting. It's just, you know, I wish that would happen every time. Right. Yeah. Well, I mean, that goes to show, like, the, you know, with the advent of the internet, and it just increases the exposure. And I would assume helps your research in connecting with people who might be involved

with these things. Like you said, you found immediate family, you know, though distant in decades of these people. So that's incredible to me that you're able to trace back that far and that forward with a case. So, wow, footprints of a ghost. Right. Yeah. So you don't, you don't normally think of, you know, ghost leaving footprints, but in this case, they did. That was one of the phenomenon. Give it up, man. Like the terrorizing, it's over. You've moved on. She's moved on. Just get over it. That's right. So I'm going to say. I guess sort of, you know, we've covered a lot about the supernatural, Alison, but you have other very interesting interests. One is that of Charles Fort and the idea of Forteia. Now, this is something I don't know much about my co-hosts.

certainly do. So I kind of wanted to cover that with you today. You know, what is the idea of Fortean and who was Charles Ford? Charles Fort was an early 20th century writer and researcher. And he searched tirelessly the resources of the New York Public Library. Yes. You can visit probably today if you wanted to. Absolutely. So that was his thing. He was so interested. in finding weird tales for which science didn't have an answer. He saw himself as like this confounder of science and loved to throw the unexplained in the faces of skeptics. And what a rebel. All right.

Yeah. So I really admire that about him. And Fortiana then named after Charles Forte, is a collection of oddities that. that don't make sense or defy explanation. So it's anything from ghosts to UFOs to crypto creatures, anything unusual. Strange rain. That's something that he's known for, like rains of fish and frogs that have been recorded over the centuries. So he wrote four books.

and he was somebody that I try to be like. Because, you know, as I said in the beginning of the broadcast, I'm not your typical researcher in that, you know, I'm not about the gadgets, although gadgets are cool. I love gadgets, love technology. Yeah. But that's not my forte. And neither is the metaphysical because I, for a, for a lot. a long time have felt very skeptical about the paranormal because there is so much fraud and there is so many people who just want to believe beyond reason. So I've been in a skeptical place.

You know, that's changed up late, I've got to say. I've had a few experiences which have made me reevaluate. But the kind of researcher I am is like Charles Ford. I mean, I'm looking for these strange stories that have no explanation in the past and trying to bring them into the future to see what might be revealed. Very interesting. Now, are there any, I guess, crypto creatures or cases in specific that are just yours? You know how, I mean, here in the UFO realm, the 1980 Rendochem case is like my golden calf. I worship it. It'll always be a part of my life.

Are there any sort of like Dover demons or, you know, West Virginia mothman in your life that really keep you going all the time? Well, oh, man, there's just so much, Ryan. I mean, it's really hard for me to, you know, peg one or two things. I mean, we talked about, we talked about a little Raymond. I mean, that really is something that's stuck with. me. And there are, there are creatures here. There, there are stories of, of, uh, of a lake monster on on Lake Michigan. Okay. Um, that go, go back to the 1890s. Um, there are, of course, um, you know, all the reports of, um, of the Brayroad Beast, which, um, of the Brayroad

beast, which, um, my friend Linda Godfrey is the head researcher on, you know, she's really brought us a lot of great, great, uh, books about that, that, um, werewolf type creature. And, you know, I know one person that did claim to see him in the city here, but that seems to be an isolated report. Yeah, I think for me, like, there's so many compelling ghost stories that nobody knows about. So that does it for me. There's, oh, there's the airship.

We didn't talk about the airship. We did not. As a UFO investigator, we have to. So yeah. Right. Yeah. So on the night of April 11th in 1897 at around 8 p.m., Milwaukee had a visitation of something strange in the sky. And this mysterious object passed over the city that night.

And people called it the airship because the term flying saucer wouldn't be coined for another 50 years. And the way it was described by a police officer who saw it while standing on Broadway, which is we have a Broadway too. I think everyone does. Ours is just over-congested and gross. Yeah. So one of our streets, which does run through the third ward and downtown, he described this airship as looking like four bright stars put together and it flashed red and white and green. And, of course, you know, people tried to discount this. There was even a local astronomer that was like, oh, the airship was only a star.

But to the police, man, and other people that have seen it, they were like, well, a star doesn't dip and Bob and produce, you know, what we would call today these extraordinary aeronautical feats that, you know, UFOs are known for. So other people, like there's a central police lieutenant that claimed that the airship must be this a hoax, a hoax, that it was like some kind of lantern that they were flying on a kite from the North Point Lighthouse grounds. Now, that's crazy because, you know, if you're local, you know that's just miles and miles away. And, you know, how could you at that time have some kind of light strung out on two miles of string? I mean, it just stretches credulity. Now, the airship later on that night passed over the city of Sheboygan. And so then any explanations, you know, of it being some kind of hoax or, you know, a star are really, really don't, don't call. put it. And then when you look into the accounts from that year and from 1896 as well. So this was

1897. In 1896, this airship phenomena started to be experienced all over the United States where this strange craft was seen. And, you know, this was, this was like six years before the Wright brothers. So nobody knows what it could have been. I mean, they had balloons. They had Zeppelins at the time, but they weren't able to produce these dazzling aerial feats that were described. So this this airship phenomena is something that still defies explanation to this day. Yeah. Yeah. The airship mystery is, you know, it's sort of touted as the, the, and of UFO events before the modern UFO era of Roswell, Kenneth Arnold. But like you said, this thing had lights flashing on it.

Even the Wright brothers weren't using lights on their prototypes at that time. So you truly have to wonder. I'm going to sort of put you on the spot here, Alison. Are there any other UFO cases in your area that are of keen interest to you or that you have personally heard reports of? Oh, definitely. So another one that I'm fascinated with is the connection to UFOs with the unfortunate disaster that occurred in 1950, June 25, 1950. Northwest Airlines flight 2,501 disappeared that night over Lake Michigan. Yep.

And right. And so its last contact was with the Moines. airport. Now, it was on its way from NYC, where you are, to Seattle, and then it just disappeared over Lake Michigan, and 58 people and the aircraft are still missing. Now, that's kind of like our MH-370, but nobody even remembers that, it seems. And, all right, so were there remains found? Yes, there were some remains of humans found, but no full full. body and no no fuselage, no parts of the plane were found. What was found was just actually splinters of things and of people. And so we won't go into the gory details there, but no full body and no plane wreckage

was ever found. And they're still searching for it to the stay. Now, I had heard a little something about, hey, wasn't there, you know, some Coast Guard that they went out off of Milwaukee and, you know, they saw some strange lights in the sky that night in the direction of, you know, where the plane would have gone down. Now, so they essentially were reporting a UFO and I thought, oh, well, that's pretty cool. But then I was like, well, is there something to this? And, you know, could there have been a crash between the UFO and an airliner? And I was startled at finding the articles, you know, how many articles there were from that night all around the country of people reporting strange things in the sky.

So it wasn't just that, you know, one local. report that I've heard of. But there were strange lights and craft reported pretty much everywhere across the country that night. And to me, that is just, I was like, I can't even believe I'm finding all these articles from that fateful, from hours around that fateful event. And then, so I also found that, that Donald Kehoe, who, you know, was the founder of the, the founder of NICAP, the National Investigations Committee, it's a big mouthful, the National Investigations Committee. Why are they?

They're always like a mile long. Yeah. What was that? Every UFO organization always has like the biggest acronym in the world. It's like, come on, guys. I can't say it clearly. But anyway, so NICAP was founded by a former Marine Corps Naval Aviator, Aviator, I can't even say Aviator right now. aviator named Donald Kehoe, who if you know anything about UFOs, was a huge figure in the UFO field.

And he interviewed an Air Force captain who had, after the NW. 2501 crash, felt that something weird was going on there. And he said to Kiho that, here's the quote, there have been some peculiar crashes the last few years. And he said, you know, take that Northwest Airlines DC4 that went into Lake Michigan. So nothing has ever been found to show what exactly happened to that ship. And the reporting agency at the time that the civil. aviation export, aviatic sport, I think.

They said that, you know, the cross was inconclusive. They could find no, oh, the civil aeronautics board, sorry. I'm cursed here with, with my tongue is tied. But, yeah, so the civil aeronautics board

never, never found an answer to what happened to the plane. And so it's interesting to think that there were people in the Air Force at that time who felt like something unusual went on here. And it was connected. It may have been connected to the UFOs. And if you want to read more about that, you can read it in a book called Flying Saucers from Outer Space by Major Donald Kehoe. Yep. Wonderful read. I've got it right here in my library next to me. I inherited a huge amount of of classic flying saucer books from a bunch of different researchers throughout the years.

So I could not be more thankful for that. And I remember that case specifically coming up. It's fascinating. And it's very mysterious. Like, where are the bodies? Where's the wreckage? What kind of force either took that plane down or what kind of force made it hit the water with such impact that we cannot find full bodies or wreckage? That you only find particles of people and, you know, blankets and, you know, other things, but you can't find the fuselage.

And there's an active search for the NW. 2,501. It's been going on for at least a decade. So, Clive Custler, he's the best-selling author of the Dirk Pitt Adventure series, and he bankrolls that search for the missing plane every year. year. Wow. That's fascinating. You have to wonder what kind of motive he has for that. But a lot of people just want to know the truth, you know? And we also think like these investigations just dissolve. But then 30, 40, 50 years later, we find the wreckage of a ship or a plane. And you have to remain hopeful that we do want to find answers for these things. They're not just some crazy fringe mystery that all us cooks and conspiracy nuts to talk about.

These are people's lives that were lost. And we owe it to them to find out what actually happens. And I think that's what motivates Clive Custler. And Valerie Van Heast, she lives in Michigan, and she's the director of the Michigan shipwreck research associates. And she's also an award-winning author and researcher. And she's the one who actually does the dives for Clive Custler. and has written a book called Fatal Crossing about that NW-2501 disaster.

And actually, you know, through her historical research, has been able to find the remains, the, you know, particles of, you know, the people that unfortunately died in the crash. And she's been able to find two locations where those, you know, scattered remains were interred. and then was able to bring the families there to have some closure. So that's one example of how historical research can really connect with people of today and improve their lives. You know, what she's doing is one way. You can take history and have it make a difference for people. And I think we can do that in the paranormal as well. Absolutely.

It comes from grassroots civilians doing that historical research. So, and you're one of those people out there doing that, Alison. Can you tell us a little bit about this book you're working on? Okay, so it's taken me forever. As it always does, don't worry about it. Yeah, once it comes out. Once it comes out, it's going to be worth it. The tentative title right now is paranormal Milwaukee, 101 haunts you can visit.

And so, of course, it's going to feature stories behind haunted attractions, hotels, or restaurants and even hair salons if you want a haunted haircut. So because Ryan, like just like me, you love when you visit a location to go to every place haunted, every place weird. So I figured, you know, what a great idea for a book to have a travel guide to Milwaukee's haunts and, you know, other unusual places as well. and to put it in a book that is aimed at tourists but also locals. Because I figure if you really want to have a paranormal experience, not just the bleeding walls,

hey, a ghost grab me by the throat, kind of shock value things. But if you're really looking for a paranormal investigation or a paranormal experience and you don't have time to sit through investigations. What are you going to do? Well, you've got to do errands, right? Well, why not, why not when you have to go to the grocery store, pick a haunted grocery store. Or, yeah, when you have to, when you have to get a haircut, you know, go get a haunted haircut, right? Why not go to places that have this incredible history? Because it's really, I think it's a value add. It's an amenity that you shouldn't have to go without, right? Exactly. That little something extra that makes a place compelling. You know, why go to a place that is just like a, you know,

some kind of chain, you know, when you can, you can visit a place with history that might rub off on you a little bit. If you want to have a paranormal experience, what you're really going to have to do is increase your chances of that happening. And what better way than to plan your day around haunted locations? Wow. Oh, I am so sold. That is the best. best pitch I've heard. I'm going to have to, my girlfriend and I make our way to Milwaukee. I have a, I have 150 places right now and I'm like pairing it down to the 101 most active places. Cool. The narrowing down, I'm sure, isn't easy because you just want to involve them all, but I get it. That 101 is always like the buzzword, you know. And you would know that as a teacher,

I would assume too. Well, like I said, we spoke a couple weeks ago. a podcast, see you on the other side. Could you tell us a little bit of how you got involved with that and what you guys are doing over there? Okay, well, here's the story. Well, you know, in 2008, I started Milwaukee Ghost.com and I started my haunted history tours. And at some point, I was like, hey, bro, you got to do a haunted history tour for Madison. That's where my brother lives. And so I helped him start on his research.

And yeah, so he started a haunted history tour in Madison. And then, oh, man, he just hasn't stopped. He wrote a tour that he is able to run in St. Paul, also one in Minneapolis. And this year, Waukesha, Wisconsin. So at any given night, he could have, you know, four tours running at the same time. He's really an overachiever. But then he was like, hey, you know, we should be doing podcasts. And we did do a podcast just together for a while called, I think it was called paranormal Wisconsin.

You still might be able to find some of the old episodes out there. But then his other love is music. He's a musician. And in his travels when he's on tour, of course he stays. like we do at a lot of haunted places and seeks out those weird stories. So we thought, well, I'm going to put these two things together. And he came up with the podcast, see you on the other side. And yeah, so we've just been going strong for, I think it's a couple of years now.

We have over 100 episodes. And I'm not on all the time, but I am a pretty regular guest these days. As I said, Mike started, my brother, Mike Huberty started the podcast with his bandmate, Wendy Lynn Stotz, who's his drummer. And to document some of the experiences that they've had on the road and also talk to guests like you. And yeah, so I'm a regular co-host, but not on every time. But I think my episodes are the best episodes. I might be biased. A little bit.

I really wanted to have you on because it seems like you're part of this whole movement to humanize the phenomena and to look for patterns to try to subject the strange phenomena to some of the tools of the social sciences. And so that's why I was like, oh, we got to have Ryan on. And we've also had Jeff Holder on who wrote a book, Poultergeist over Scotland, which is about 134 poltergeist cases. He was able to find just in Scotland, due to his research, and, you know, the patterns and revelations that came out of analyzing each case. Wow. So there's a lot of people doing, you know, doing just that. you're doing it. As I said, Jeff Holder.

There's also Steve Parsons, who's from the UK, and he's collected stories of a time slip that has kept appearing over the years in Liverpool. He has over 100 cases. So there are people really doing the documentation that's going to, I think, yield some pretty hefty revelations in the coming years. I have to agree. Yeah. I mean, we're, and we're coming together. You know, it's no longer like UFOs are disconnected from ghosts, disconnected from cryptids. We're all finding these patterns about the human nature of these things and how that's impacting us. And I think that's that, like you said, there's a renaissance happening in all these fields and we're starting to come together. I mean, you and I are doing this podcast right now. And we come from completely different angles, as it were. And we found this commonality of the huge. human effect of these events. And I think that's very exciting. I'm really looking forward to hearing

more about what you guys are doing over there. And what is next for you, Alison? What do you got on the docket? I know you're an award-winning researcher. I had to put that in there because I love that conference that just happened in Milwaukee. I heard it went amazing. And we've got to help those guys out to keep it going. What's next for you? Well, as you mentioned, the Milwaukee Paracan has just been such a force for bringing the paranormal to Milwaukee. And, you know, this year was really an ambitious event, two-day event. And T. Kroulos is the organizer. He's a great researcher writer in our area and he was able to bring in, you know, so many great guests and also to draw from the paranormal community. And this year he awarded me the Wisconsin Researcher of the Year

award, which, you know, to me, that was the pinnacle of achievement. Now I can just take a nap. That's what's next. No, but I was really so touched by that last year, during our first year, during our first Milwaukee Pericon. He awarded it to Linda Godfrey, who I mentioned previously, who is just brought so much to the field in her research. Yeah, in her research on the Bray Road Beast and other werewolf-like creature reports across the country. So it really means a lot to me. And so I am continuing to be a 14, to be as somebody who can't enough of those old newspaper articles and searching tirelessly for these stories that nobody's ever heard of. And I think what's next is, you know, I've got to finish my first book, but I think a lot of these stories that we talked about today, although they're not, they're not like the travel guide I'm working on, you know, there's a lot of history conveyed in stories that I've uncovered, you know, this Fortiana. And I think, and I think,

think that would make a great book as well. Just because there's so many untold stories here in Wisconsin and in the Midwest in general. And yeah, so I've really had a small, you know, very specific net looking for for things in Milwaukee. But if I broaden it out to Wisconsin and other nearby states, I'm sure I'm going to come up with even more stories that nobody's ever heard before that really leave you scratching your head. And that's, that's what gets me up in the morning. Oh, I couldn't put it better myself. Me too. As long as I have my cup of coffee and a good story, I'm good to go. Alison, it's been amazing talking to you today. I'm sold. I want your books. I want your tour. Where can I find out more about all this? Well, you can find me on MilwaukeeGhost.com,

And that's plural Milwaukee Ghost because there was just one ghost in Milwaukee. It wouldn't have much to talk about. So Milwaukee Ghost.com is a great place to find me. And from there, you can link to my blog. You can link to the podcast. And yeah, so also the podcast, I should give that. As I said, there's over 100 shows available for a download right now. And that's at Other Side Podcast.

com. Awesome. Well, thanks again, Alison. Our listeners are going to love this. You have such a variety of topics you cover, and it's clear you have the passion, the insight, and the knowledge to be such a force in the paranormal and 14 realms. So again, thanks for joining us. Thank you. It's been my pleasure. That's it for this week's episode. Again, you can find all of Allison's work at MilwaukeeGhosts.com. If you haven't already, please subscribe, rate, and review somewhere in the skies on Apple Podcasts and iTunes. Even if you don't use this platform, it is the largest in the world. And it only takes a few moments to sign in, subscribe, and leave a rating and review. Thank you.

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