Somewhere in the Skies - High Strangeness in the Borrego Triangle

Episode Date: September 10, 2023

On episode 334 of SOMEWHERE IN THE SKIES, Ryan is joined by Derek Hayes of The Monsters Among Us podcast and David Flora of the Blurry Photos podcast. Together, Hayes and Flora created the new documentary, Shadows in the Desert: High Strangeness in the Borrego Triangle. After learning of numerous paranormal and mysterious stories and encounters in the Anza-Borrego Desert State Park area, they set out on a quest to find the facts behind the fictions in what appears to be a paranormal "window area" hidden in the deserts of Southern California. Read Ryan’s Articles by CLICKING HERE Opening Theme Song, "Ephemeral Reign" by Per Kiilstofte Copyright © 2023 Ryan Sprague. All rights reserved. Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/somewhere-in-the-skies. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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On our way to Ains-Aborago State War. There's all sorts of activities taking place in this area. And I heard three footsteps come towards me. It's coming at me. There's definitely magic out here, and it's not all good. It was just standing upright, just staring at us. There really are these things out there. Ghostly activity can change temperatures.

There's always stuff going on in Anza that you can't explain. And then it flashed out of the sky. Straight ahead. It sounded like a rr-r-r-r-sound. You described it as a monster. Upright on two legs. There were so many bodies that kept turning up, like unnaturally. Even the police were searching everything out there.

What is going on? This is a place where you are close to the natural, and you're even closer to the supernatural. This is somewhere in the skies. Brian Sprague. I have two very special guests for you guys, and they are Dave Flora, and we also have Derrickays, the filmmakers of Shadows in the Desert, high strangeness in the Barago Triangle. Guys, congratulations first and foremost on the film. It's going to be premiering in California very soon, but I can't wait to dig into this with you guys tonight. So, first of all, thank you for joining me. Thanks for having us.

Thank you. Ooh, that was creepy. That was like perfectly in unison. We worked together so well. This is how we got this thing done. Oh, man. That was like perfect, shining twins right there. Creepy, creepy.

I love it. Well, hey, you guys work together a lot. That's kind of my first question for you, actually. Before we dive into this brand new film that you guys came out with, how did you two meet? I've never really gotten the origin story on how two of my favorite podcast hosts eventually started working together. So Derek, let's start with you, man.

How did you guys meet? And what made you want to work together on this project? Sure. I actually met David in my garage years ago, listening to blurry photos. You know, I was a tinkerer. I worked on motorcycles and campers and that kind of thing before I did podcasting. And I would listen to everything, including your show, Ryan. And David's stuff just stuck to me.

I mean, I really enjoyed it. So then I kind of started the show and started talking. and all these people. And I'm like, I'm going to hunt this David guy out. And we started, you know, doing guest hosts and that kind of thing together. And I don't know where it went from there, David. It just kind of snowballed at that point, didn't it? I think so.

You were on an episode of Blurry Photos, just kind of talking weird news and things like that and your show. And then we finally met in person at Mothman Festival. That's right, yeah. That was like 20. 17? 17, yeah. I think so, yeah. Yeah, yeah, I think you're right, 2017.

Awesome. Well, for our members of the audience, again, who may not know, guys, tell us a little about each of your podcasts, if you don't mind. Derek, what is Monsters Among Us? Well, MAU is a call-in show about monsters, but not specifically monsters, anything paranormal, you know, ghosts, UFOs, aliens, ESP, anything strange and unusual that someone's experienced, they call it in. They leave their story in a form of a voicemail. and then I kind of just rifle through them and pull out what I want to play. And we talk about it. We compare stories.

We play some older stories that kind of correlate to what's going on. We have a good time there. It is. It's a really good time. I've spent many nights not sleeping because of it, man. So thank you. Thank you for that. That's the goal right there.

That is always the goal. I know. Actually, with me, it's the opposite. I apparently put people to sleep. That's somewhere in the sky. I'm confused of that myself. Yeah, there's, you can, you can buy stuff on my Patreon. It's a sleep aid, basically me reading things, then people fall asleep to it.

It's like a really good ASM, right? Yeah, exactly. Dave, tell us a little about blurry photos, man. Yeah, blurry photos has been going on since 2012, and it's evolved in that time frame. We started out, I had a co-host Dave Stecco, and we would talk about these weird topics, you know, in this world we live in here. and we had a more comedic bent on it, and then he left the show in about 2017, and I took over solo doing it,

and I've kind of morphed it more into a deep dive, really analytical and kind of academic look at a lot of these topics. And so that's what I like to do is really get to the nitty-gritty of stuff, find all the old sources, and track everything down. My last episode I did. It's been a while. I've been kind of busy with a lot of other things here, but the last episode I did was a deep dive on the history of the devil.

And so I talked about like all the appearances that the devil has gone through the names, biblical history, comparative mythology, things like that. So that's the kind of stuff I'm rolling with here. That's really cool, man. And you said sidetracked. I have to mention our mutual friends all here, Hysteria 51. How did that come about? How did you start working with Brent over there at hysteria 51? Right.

Brent and I met up in Chicago. We were both living in Chicago at the time. And, you know, we had done a couple of guest spots on each other's show. Well, he kind of had a similar situation. His co-host left to pursue other things. And he was like, why don't you come co-host with me? And I was like, I don't know, I got a lot of stuff going on. And finally, I was like, okay, Brent.

Let's do it. Like I'll just, you know, with some caveats. Like, I'll come on and co-host with you. So, yeah, we've been co-hosting Hysteria 51 for a while. And I also started a trivia podcast with my wife called Quiz Quiz Bang Bang. And then just a few months ago, I started a fourth one called Five Minute Frights, which is the author Tom Lyons, who was written a Living Among Bigfoot series. he he wanted to do a podcast and I'm narrating just like five minute little stories that he sends me. So yeah, I'm doing a couple things.

I say so, man. Making us all feel lazy. He's so lazy. He doesn't do anything all day, just sits around. Not at all. God. Well, okay. Well, I mean, the obvious first question when someone comes out with a new film is, how did the film come to be?

What made you guys decide that you wanted to tackle this triangle out in the deserts of California? I find this absolutely fascinating. Yeah, whoever wants to take that. What made you want to cover the Borrego triangle? Well, I guess it started with me. My wife, Sarah, and I, we would go camping. We camp all over California. And one of those locations we would go to is Borago Springs and Zabrego Desert State Park.

And every time I would go there, I would hear these legends. the people would talk about it. I'd see a couple of things here and there about ghosts, UFOs, even Bigfoot, that lived in that area. So, you know, like I do everywhere else, I was looking for books. I was looking for documentaries, newspaper articles, anything that really, you know, kind of talked about this area and the strange activity that's going on there. And to my surprise, there really wasn't much out there. So I kind of got the idea like, well, you know, if it's not out there, why don't I start something? Why don't I put something together?

And then I quickly realized it was in way over my head. And that's when I gave a call to David. And, you know, what are you doing this summer? You want to shoot a movie? And four years later, here we are, finally releasing it and still talking about it. Yeah, he had put the bug in my year about the Berego Sandman. And that was for one of my miscripted contests one year. I had him in there.

And it was, it let me kind of dig into that legend, which started out kind of, you know, with stories there. But there was a Desert Magazine article in, I think, 19. It was it? July of 64, I believe it is. It was an article about someone who had said he had an encounter out there and had a plaster cast of feet and stuff like that. And then from there, when you start looking into that area, stuff just starts falling on you. like ghost stories, UFO encounters, cryptids, all kinds of weird anomalous things. And we started putting them on a map. Like, where is this stuff?

And it made this kind of weird triangle out there in Southern California. So, yeah, it was fun. Yeah. And all the cool places have to be called the triangle. So it was an obvious choice, right? Of course. The Bregor Rombus just didn't have the same feel. Does it look as good on a poster?

Yeah, I could definitely see that. Well, you mentioned Derek four years, man. That is blood, sweat, tears, patience. I've been there. I know what it's like. So to talk about that angle to all this, the research process, what was that like? Like you guys mentioned, it was hard to find stuff at first, but then slowly but surely, you get the people that, you eventually got in the film. And full disclosure, my ugly mug makes a couple appearances

in it as well, which we'll get to. But what was that research process like? How did you find the actual witnesses and people who actually live out there and experience the stuff that we're going to be talking about tonight? What was that like? Well, I think we got kind of, I hate to say lucky, but we sort of did with COVID because it kind of put us on the shelf for a year and a half. So for that period of time, we're just sitting there reading books. We're talking to people, putting feelers out. And what I did on my side, I can't speak for David, but on my show, I put a blast out. Anybody from this area has any stories get a hold of us, and we received several dozen stories that way.

Then we started digging in the old newspaper reports. If you dig deep enough, there is stuff out there. You just have to know where to look for it. So eventually we were able to collect a decent amount of information on that, right, David? That's right. Yeah, we found different books here and there, and it was a lot of things like San Diego, ghost stories, ghost stories of, you know, Southern California,

and it'll have like one little part or story in there about Anzabarego. And we kind of collected all those, pieced them together. I remember emailing a ton of educators and professors and things like that, saying, hey, we're looking into things like, quartz out here. You're a geologist. Can you, can you come on and speak to us about that? And, you know, people would be like, oh, I'm interested. What's this for? And you're like, well, we're putting a paranormal documentary together. And then it's just like tumbleweed. And so we had our fair share of people say, you know, like, oh, what is it? Okay, no, I'm not doing it.

Or just never reply or anything. So we did really get lucky. And our producer, Roxanne, helped out a lot too because she called around different groups in the area. There was one in Anza that met up and talked about UFOs and had, you know, night watches and things like that, got to do one of those with them. And then we ended up with a fellow of the Santa Rosa band of Kuwia Indians out there who told us, I sat with him for an hour just talking about this stuff. He had a couple of encounters. shared, talked about, you know, the pictographs are a big thing out there and just the

energy of the place. It was, it was amazing. So, yeah, we just kind of lucked out. We knew where we wanted to go with some of the stuff. And we just threw a bunch of spaghetti at the wall and whatever stuck. Pretty much made it into the film. It was kind of nice out there that once you got going, the path was right in front of you. Oh, you just had to follow lead, the lead, the lead. And we kind of, like for Bigfoot or the Sandman, as they call them out there, for example, you know, we started with some contemporary reports and worked our way backwards to the mid-1880s, I believe, some of these articles went back to. You know, once you get started, you just follow the breadcrumbs and it takes you back to, I don't know about the truth, but it takes you back to something. Right. Well, and you guys, you know, you're mentioning ghosts and UFOs and cryptids and the indigenous people.

I kind of want to tackle each of those briefly with you. But I guess let's kind of paint a picture for the audience. What exactly? I didn't even ask this earlier. What is the Borrego triangle? What is it comprised of? And yeah, yeah, maybe give us a little more geographical perspective on that, if you don't mind. Whoever wants to take that?

You can start to be fighting over that. Well, the triangle. It's massive. I'll be honest, but everything in that part of the world is. You know, distances are vast. They're huge. So the triangle is quite large. It stretches from Hemet all the way into north, all the way east to the Salton Sea, the shore there, and then down to the Mexican border around what Ocoteo down in that area down there.

So it's a pretty large triangles that, and it's not just the desert. That's what a lot of people think. Oh, it's just, you know, wasteland desert. Half of it is. But the other half is high mountains, you know, a mile up into the air. There's pine trees. There's running water. there's forests. So it's a diverse area that's full of different wildlife, different sorts of

people, even, different cultures in the past, and then different cultures now, I would dare to say. And just tons of strange activity, like we said earlier, just that area seems to be inundated with something unusual. Yeah. Cool. Thank you. Yeah. I think that that gives us a better idea of what we're dealing with. Like, this isn't just, you know, the Nevada desert, just, you know, playing desert with triangles flying all around. Like, there's a lot going on in this area. There's that happening as well.

Yeah. There are triangles flying around. Definitely, yeah, that's a big part of it. But one of the things we wanted to do with the film is showcase the area because it is gorgeous because of there's so many different things. It's so weird in some spots. We drove across San Andreas Fault, you know, a couple of times. It's running right through there.

So you've got the weird sandstone wind carved terrain, canyons where it's mud makes up, you know, the walls of everything. Then you've got, like Derek was saying, places like Julian and Warner Springs where you get higher and it's more green and kind of brushy and scrubby. and there's so many gorgeous locations we were finding that it took an hour and a half to get to our next filming spot, but it would take longer because we'd stop in the middle of it a couple times to film the landscape. Yeah, yeah, you'd just come around the corner and get on Milwaukee, everybody stop, we got to shoot here. It wasn't planned. We didn't have time for it, but it was just so beautiful that we had to shoot. I've been there, man. I know that feeling. Like you will give up something else to get that B-roll, as it were, for sure.

Exactly. Well, okay, so let's start with Supernatural. I'd love to kind of hit each of these anomalous phenomena that seem to be happening there. So in terms of the supernatural, is there one story you guys can kind of tease to us? We won't give away everything in the film, obviously, but I want people to see it. But, yeah, was there any supernatural stories that really stuck out to you guys that you covered while you were out there? Yeah, I can relate one to you. There was quite a few of the supernatural ghost stories out there come from the Old West.

This is, you know, 1850s onward because it wasn't a very populated area even up until the, I think 1920s and 30s is when the, they really started developing the area. And so what they would do is because they had to get a lot of stuff from Arizona to California and L.A. in that area in San Diego, they would cut a path through this valley there. And they would kind of stop at different springs that either they would find or try and, in some cases, create. So there's one that this mule train. run by a fellow named Ball was coming through

and they made this place at a place called Yaqui and that's named after the Yaqui Native American people that lived there and I think he had guides that were Native Americans that dug a well in this spot and that was one of the

spots on this mule train that they were using to go through there anyways a few years after that had been dug. They had there was this well there and there was these three they say immigrants it could have been just a few guys

south of the border that were coming up to L.A. and maybe on up into San Francisco at the time, the gold rush. Other stories say they were brothers. But anyway, there were three of them and they came up and they found this watering hole. Now they've been wandering through their desert for you know, days and just finding nothing out there. And they finally see this well. And it's, it, at the time, it wasn't even like you would think a stone well would be. It was basically a watering hole for horses. And they, they just bolted for it. And they just started gulping watered

water out of it. And that is a bad idea to do when you're really dehydrated because it causes your cells to swell really quickly and that can cause hemorrhaging in the brain and death pretty easily. And that's what happened to one of them right after they drink the water. And then the other two saw something in the guy's pot where they were rifling through, you know, looting the corpse, as it were, and they pulled out a gold nugget. And I don't know if they didn't know that the guy had it or what, but those two started fighting each other over that gold nugget,

the two that were left. And one of them killed the other, took the gold and ran off into the desert, and he was never seen again. So it's, so it goes. But now they say that that spot is haunted by the ghosts of these three brothers that fought each other over gold.

And, you know, they say that sometimes you can still see the outlines of them fighting in this area. And it's really creepy. So we went to this spot to Yaki Well. And we talk about the story in the film and we did a nighttime investigation of the area. I had some EMF meters and heat thermal cameras and imaging and things like that. and it was a lot of fun. The wild thing about it to me was the place where the well was, as compared to about 10 feet away from it,

was much cooler in that spot. And you can see it on the thermal gun that we have. And that was really fun. I don't know if that's indicative of anything other than, you know, just kind of a sink in the ground. But that was something that was a really cool observation that we were able to make. It was like a 10 to 15 degree difference too. It wasn't subtle either. You could feel it. You could like walk into it. Yeah.

That's so interesting. A perfect little circle right there is really strange. Huh. Yeah. And well, and I think that's another big thing about the film too is you guys are out there. This isn't just something you're talking about and throwing some talking heads up and giving us a history lesson. Like you actually went to these locations and and attempted some investigation. So that was really cool and refreshing to see. That story did really stick out to me for sure. You can imagine the desperation back during the gold rush and how many spirits were probably left behind there for all different reasons. So yeah, that one definitely stuck with me as well. Derek, I want to ask you, man, you know, a lot of this came from the idea of what you guys,

have said is the sandman that's out there. These monsters, as it were, or these even cryptids. And these are also reported within the triangle as well. So I'd love to move on to actually the cryptid kind of part of all of this and get your thoughts on that side of all this, what you guys investigated in terms of cryptids out there. And possibly maybe some of the connections that might have with the indigenous people. Is that something you can comment on? The Summer in the Sky's podcast is free to listen to every week. But if you would like to help support the show,

we have a very active Patreon page where you give what you think the show is worth. In return, you'll get early access to the main show, bonus episodes, and priority to ask our guests your listener questions. Your support truly makes the show continue and grow. So to learn more and to join, visit patreon.com slash somewhere skies. Yeah, like you said, Bigfoot, Sasquatch, whatever you want to call him, Sandman out there, he's pretty prominent. There's all sorts of, I guess, reports from different areas of the park. There's a few from the low desert areas.

The magazine, the Desert Magazine article that David spoke of, that sighting took place in the lower lands down in the desert portion. but a majority of them take place around an area called Warner Springs, which is up near Julian up in that area. It's about a mile, 4,000 feet up, something like that. So it's green, it's lush, there's trees and everything. And we get so many reports from that area. And back in the, I don't have the numbers in front of me, I apologize, but back in the 1880s, there was a flap of disappearances around this certain area up in there.

They called it Dead Man Hole because of all these people that would come up missing there. They would find bodies from time. the time and their belongings would still be on them. They'd still have their cash. They'd still have their pocket watch and everything. So they didn't think it was a robbery or anything like that. And then at some point, finally, people started to see this creature, this monster, up at Dead Man's Hole. And at a certain point, these fellows went after it, and they tracked it up into the mountains and into this cave. And I guess they killed the creature and hauled it back to San Diego for examination. And that's sort of where we lose the trail as to what's happening

there. There's some discrepancy of whether or not this is a true story or if this is some sensationalized thing, but that's just the tip of the iceberg. We talk to people that have seen things out there. And Sasquatch, Bigfoot, salmon, it's not the only thing out there. There are other reports of dogman type creatures. There's these glowing beans of light. They kind of remind me of a gray alien except for their skin glows. There's another story of a eight-foot skeleton with a lantern lodged in his chest. So there's all sorts of crazy stuff out there that kind of falls within the cryptid realm. Some of it a little more fringe than others.

But it certainly seems to be a hotspot out there of some sort with that activity. Interesting. Interesting. Yeah. Dave, do you have anything to add to the cryptid angle to all this? Anything you really found memorable while you guys were out there researching and investigating? You know, when we first went out there to show,

the trailer for this for the Kickstarter. We went into the Arroyo Tapio Tappiato mud caves, and that was what I was talking about, it has these canyons of mud wall. It's not rock, it's just dried mud, and super dangerous. You can see all the cracks and everything, and with all the earthquakes out there,

you know, we were both kind of like, how far down in here should we go? But, But we just, the one spot we picked to get out and investigate, we saw all kinds of tracks of animals. And we're thinking things like coyotes and mountain lions, those kind of tracks and things. Didn't see any, you know, feet that were large. But it would be an easy place to leave tracks because the sand is so soft around there. And they don't get hardly any rain.

So, you know, it doesn't wash away. So, yeah, it's very interesting. And the people that we talk to, the majority of the people that we have in the film, have some kind of Bigfoot or crypted story seeing it. There's one that crosses the street and one that, you know, a dude's out just kind of enjoying himself and hears like crashing thuds and footsteps coming towards and things like that. So it's kind of the last place. you think at Bigfoot would be.

But we also talked to a biologist who was telling us about how you can get food out there and how animals do survive. And if you migrate to the mountains in the summer and come back down to the desert in the winter, it's feasible. And that's the unique thing about this area is that you do have that opportunity. In the wintertime, you can go down to the low desert. It's 60 degrees down there. There's plants blooming.

I mean, you know, there's life while, you know, in the mountains in the wintertime, it's snowy, there's feet of snow in the ground. And then in the summertime, it's kind of reversed. You can go up to the mountains. There's running water. There's plants while the desert's essentially being baked and it's in-hospitable at that point. Interesting. Yeah, yeah. That definitely stood out to me, too.

It's like just the differentiation of weather conditions out there. I mean, one minute you guys said it's like 65 degrees you're out there. The next, it's like 110 out. And I could tell, man, you guys were sweating your butts off out there. And I was just so happy that I was in my Scotland department where it was like 50 degrees while I was watching this. I can't even imagine. It was 119 at one point while we were shooting. I think that's the hottest it got for us.

That's crazy. I don't think we had a single day under 105, something like that. Every day was above 100 and five. And, you know, we, we tried to get up early to do stuff. That's a tall order. But when we finally got out there, I mean, you know, you have to shoot in daylight. And that's, that was a hundred coming and going. So, yeah, it was crazy, but it was fun.

When you need a rag to open your door on your car, then you know it's hot. Yeah, I would say, I mean, we got bit by the heat. Our initial Kickstarter trailer shoots, we were out there. And this was, what, October, Derek? Yeah, October of 18, I want to say, something like that. And we were out there running around trying to find some of the pictographs and spent, you know, a couple hours just boulder hopping and running around in the desert. and it was pleasant. The wind was nice, you know, it was hot, but it wasn't unbearable.

Well, we get back to town to base, and we go to dinner and none of us can eat. We're just kind of sitting there, a thousand-yard stare, and we get back to the campsite and, like, Derek Pukes and I'm just zoned out. And then we just kind of rally and do a video for the Kickstarter saying, hey, can we get your money? the things you do. Wow. Well, hey, I mean, it's dangerous out there. You guys mentioned that several times in the film, you know, whether it's the heat or the scavengers that may be out there or going on property that's not yours. Like that could always be a risk to you out there. You've got military activity. You've got everything out there. So I could understand why this probably wasn't by any stretch of the imagination in easy film. to make. I want to get to the kudegra why I loved the movie, and that's, of course, UFOs. And there was some interesting stuff that happened while you guys were out there. We'll leave it to the audience to see the film, to see you guys weren't exactly alone when you were out there interviewing people about UFOs and even looking for them.

So yeah, we'll leave that for the viewers to see. But tell us a little about the UFO. angle to all of this, if you don't mind. What has been reported out there? And yeah, what's some of the most compelling reports you guys came about when it comes to the UFO phenomenon? Well, some of the shapes or your categories of UFO that we had reported a lot out there, of course the black triangles, we had a few witnesses that reported those all throughout

the desert, not just in our particular area. but some strange lights. Of course, you get that everywhere. Biological UFOs. We had one witness that saw something that I think it looks like a meatball, honestly, but it was flying through the sky. And the ironic thing about that is that jets, military jets showed up moments after it kind of exited the area. So there was some sort of connection going on there.

There's a daylight UFO that takes place out there called Goldie. You see it during the day flying around the mountains down there. all kinds of strange stuff. And like Ryan said, the military, there was a huge military presence out there. Everywhere you turned, there was a helicopter, there was a jet, or there was some sort of activity going on there. So, David, help me out. What am I missing with the UFOs here? With the military presence and stuff, there were a couple times.

They circled us specifically and got real close. One of them, I don't know if it was for us, but we were in, I think, Ocoteo Wells. And one of them landed in somewhere in town. It was probably 200 yards from where we were filming. So there's definitely a presence. And there are several military bases around there. But there were also, I mean, why do they care about us? It seemed like they did, though, didn't it?

It did. There were several times in that one time we got out and tried filming them. And they just like, they were like, oh, yeah, we were like, oh, okay, well. They got real low on us and we're circling. We're the only things within 20, 30 miles, so it had to have been us. But it's freaky. The one good story that kind of toes the line between supernatural and UFOs was the lights of Carrizo Gorge and the Goat Canyon Tressel.

That was a fun one too. And we didn't go out to the trestle itself because it's like an eight mile hike. and it's illegal. What is that story? Is that something you could share with us? I'll give you a teaser because it's a good one. Yeah, give us a little teaser, yeah. When they were building the railroad, they called it the impossible railroad, right, Derek?

Yeah, yeah. Because it goes through these canyons and this awful, awful terrain down there. And when they were building it, there were several reports of workers dying. kind of going a little crazy and there were they they at one point i think they got the pinkertons involved to see what was going on exactly but people were would sometimes say they would see lights traveling down the the railroad and there was nothing attached to them it was just kind of a floating ball of light and um there's a story of a train conductor seeing that at one point and throwing on the brakes and then you know calamity and stuff so and i'll leave it

at that, but that's another fun one, one of our bigger stories in there that was a lot of fun to research. Yeah, that one was pretty powerful for anyone who gets to see the film. That one packs a punch for sure. Well, let's talk a little bit about the production aspect to all of this. Maybe could you mention a couple of the people who you got to interview in the film. I noticed some familiar faces, some new faces in there I've never really seen. But yeah, who are some of the, the quote-unquote researchers and experts that you guys spoke to in the film? Well, we got pretty lucky. We got you, obviously. You're in the film talking about UFOs and all that stuff toward the end there. We had the guys from Bigfoot Collectors Club, a big fan of their show,

Bryce and Michael from over there. We had Sapphire Sundalo, a good friend of mine. She's on. And then we had a lot of experts. We had, um, Bruce was our biologist who is actually a desert biologist. He lives in Utah, but he still lives in the desert. So he really knows his stuff as far as that's concerned. Um, who else do we have, David? We had, uh, Jim Dice. He was our local plant expert, uh, there in the, uh, go area. So we thought that was important to get kind of insight. Is there enough food for something to live out there? You know, we're talking about all these cryptids. So we wanted to find out, you know, is there actually cover? Is there water? Is there food? Is there a, is there a way for these things to survive. And to my surprise, and probably David's as well, the answer was

yes from these biologists. So that was pretty enlightening. I don't know if that means that Sasquatch is out there, but it certainly influenced my opinion a little bit, I would say, at the very least. Yeah, Christy Ferguson was a geologist that we got to talk about. Oh, yes, yes, Christy, yes. Yeah, because Quartz is huge out there. And, you know, it's come out in recent years, how a lot of areas where there's activity and stuff correlates with a lot of courts in the area. So I wanted to talk to her about what she thought and throw out some ideas of how courts could play into some of these stories scientifically. And then there was a desert museum down there in Arcto that we visited and talked about some of the how they made the pictographs from the Native American cultures and stuff. I said Tony Largo from the Kaua.

We're forgetting somebody very important, David. Oh. Ken Lane, the voice of the desert. Oh, my gosh. Desert Oracle, baby. Yeah. My favorite podcast is Desert Oracle. And just on a whim, I reached out, I'm like, if we're doing a film in the desert of California, we have to have Ken Lane in the film.

So I reached out into my surprise, he's like, I'll be there. And he was. And I'd say he was our very first shoot. It was a very first thing we did on the official shoot. And I think we were all a little nervous. We're all kind of giving each other glances, like, who's in charge? What's going on here? This is kind of a mess.

And then Ken sets down and starts talking. And suddenly all my fears are alleviated. I'm like, we can make a movie just on Ken talking. Like, that's all we have to do. So he took a ton of pressure off of us just by coming in and telling these amazing stories. The way he delivers this stuff is brilliant. So I was really happy to have him on board. Yeah, I was fanboying out when he showed up.

It was good to finally put a face to that desert voice. that we all know so well. And you're right. I think just he kind of was the through line throughout the whole film and kind of tied everything together, which is kind of where I want to start to wrap things up with you guys is tying this all together.

You know, we have all these different compartmentalized communities out there, the UFO community, Bigfoot, supernatural. And it's rare for them to kind of intersect and have these discussions. like we are today and like you had in your film and at this event, Anomicon, that was kind of my goal was to bring voices from each of these research communities together and see, could this all somehow be connected? And when it comes to the Borrego triangle, it seems that the further you zoom back,

the more it looks like it possibly could be. So I'd love to get both of your thoughts on that aspect of all of this. Do you think all of this could be connected? I mean, is this sandman coming in on a UFO and disappearing because it's a, it's a ghost? Like, I don't know, Dave, let's go with you first, man. Your theory is on, is any of this connected or are we just too, you know, going too out on our limb with that? Boy, it's tempting to, to connect it with some wild speculation on there. But if it is connected, then it's because the area.

has some kind of energy about it. It's connecting things like you said that are completely disparate from each other, but because of the area, it fosters all of them together. Does that make any sense? Yeah, absolutely. I would say it would be the area itself as opposed to any of the phenomenon,

like a UFO is dropping off some big foot while it's also like killing people and leaving their souls behind or something. You know what I think? That happens all the time. All that time. Yeah, you know, that's the M.O. Yep, yep.

Derek, what do you think, man? Well, you know, I don't know if it's connected, but it occurred to us very quickly that it might be because of the history of the area. Because it's the desert, things don't rot, things don't disintegrate, and there's tons of artifacts remaining. And most of those are in the form of petroglyphs, petrographs, that sort of thing, writing on rocks. essentially. And as we started researching all this stuff, that was one of the things we hit heavy. And we started to realize that there's pictures that look like Sasquatch. There's pictures that look like UFOs. You know, there's all these things that kind of tie into the legends that still exist in this area. And it kind of gives, at least me, I can't speak for the artist or anyone else,

you know, looking at it, but it kind of gives me the feeling that they were experiencing the same things that people experience today. And that's their way of depicting them. So there was some sort of tie in there. I don't know how it all ties together. But there was certainly some tie in with history as far as that's concerned. So a little bit of credence, I guess, was, was lent to it because of this artwork that's that's left behind. It goes to, it speaks to the longevity of whatever, you know, if there is something happening, it's been happening for a long time.

It's not just because, you know, we moved in there or something. Right. But a quick note, too, on that, we always like to point out for anybody who goes, you know, legend tripping with this stuff, please respect the petroglyphs and don't touch anything, just look, you know, take a picture if you want, but leave it

as it is. That's one of the big things we try to push in the film and tell everybody when we're talking about these things. It's history and it's people's culture, so just leave it, leave it be and enjoy the look of it. And there are massive fines if you don't

as well, so there's always that. There's that too. You're right, man. That stuff is so sensitive. I've been to, you know, petroglyphs in Arizona, a few other places. And you can tell, and I was up there with a Zuni tribe elder, actually. He was interpreting them for me. And it was clear that some kids had been up there and were messing around with some of it. And you could just see, you know, the hurt in this elder's heart is visible on his face to see that.

like his history be literally, you know, scribbled away on these, these ancient rocks. So you're right. Anyone. Public service announcement from the three of us. If you're out there investigating UFOs, ghost scripted, anything, just be respectful of the property you're at and the history behind it and the people who live there and everything in between. I think that's a great lesson.

And it did come across in the film for sure. Well, to kind of wrap things up, guys, what do you hope people will take away from the film? What do you hope the audience will come away thinking after they see Shatters in the Desert? Derek, let's start with you, man. Well, my personal goal here is to actually get people out there. I think a lot of people don't realize this place exists. It's really cool. There's some really cool areas there.

It's accessible. It's free for the most part. You can go there and investigate if you want to. You can even camp, I think, anywhere you want within the park as long as you follow a few simple guidelines and rules. But it's a place where all this activity takes place, and it's also a place where you can actually go, investigate, visit. So there's no reason for people to, you know, watch this film and just sit on their thumbs. They should go out there and find out if this is real on their own. I want people to go to this area and experience it for themselves.

Love it. Dave, how about you, man? My takeaway is, so, you know, I approach things skeptically asking questions at first and seeing, you know, what shakes out in the end. And coming out of this and what I think the audience can take away is that you shouldn't prejudge anything because, you know, like I said, this area doesn't seem conducive to at least cryptid activity, things like that or Sasquatch in particular. but after coming away from it, you know, it kind of opens your mind a little bit more to the possibility that, okay, yeah, stuff like this could be running around here. And just because it's hot doesn't mean a shaggy creature can't survive here. So keep the questions coming, but don't shut anything off just because you think it doesn't belong there. That's the big takeaway for me. And like Derek, I think it'd be fun for people to get out there and enjoy this landscape and a beautiful park and just be careful because it is.

There's so many things that can get you not only the heat, the snakes, the scorpions, the sand itself. You know, you have to have the right vehicle for some spots, things like that. You don't want to get stuck out there and just be screwed. So just be careful, but go have fun too. I love it. I love it. Well, let's get a little behind the scenes before we go here, guys. Were there any mishaps or memorable moments while filming that stuck out to you?

Oh, man, I regret coming out here. Anything like the horror stories that happen on sets like this? Oh, man, I got to say the heat was the number one factor. And we're going to repeat ourselves a million times, but that's how important it was. you walk outside and it just hits you in the face. Like, yeah. Our air conditioner was running full blast in the Airbnb we were staying in. And it was, what, 83 degrees in there or something?

Probably, yeah. It could not get any lower than that. And we were thankful for 83 degrees. At night, we're outside shooting in the back area, and it's 110 degrees or something at, like 10 o'clock at night. And we're just, you know, sweating in the dark. So the heat, the heat is really. That's the behind-the-scenes memoir, by the way, sweating in the dark. in the dark.

The making of shut as the longest title in film history. Yeah, that'll be in the bonus, the bonus content. Yeah,

for me, for me it was the heat. Some of the military stuff was a little spooky. Like when we got circled that one time by, I don't know if it was a Black Hawk or Apache,

I don't know my helicopters, but I was a little concerned then. I was like, you know, like I said, we're the only ones out there. Obviously, they're interested in us.

Why and what are they going to do? Luckily, they flew off. But, Yeah, for the most part. We wanted to shoot in the spring. We wanted to shoot in the fall, but it wasn't in the cards. And when the time came, everything fell together.

It was June and July. So we're like, all right, let's go. So again, I'm going to circle back to the heat. The heat was the worst part of the entire thing. Yeah, we got it. Besides Derek just upchucking in one of the campground bathrooms, the craziest stuff that happened, wasn't too many, thankfully, I guess, but we got hit with a sudden downpour coming into there one

time. We had to jump out and get the equipment out of the back of the truck and on the side of the road. That was wild. That was unexpected. There was this wild dry thunderstorm that happened another time when we were coming back to home base. And the way it works is we were based in Bregos Springs, which there's a road that kind of curls down to get into it. And we were coming up here and just kind of came over the edge of the mountainside there. And it was just this dark thundercloud over the valley and just lightning, no sound, no rain. It was the wildest thing. And we tried to get film of it.

But we just, you know, the cameras were equipped to pick up how amazing it looked. And that was the same night that there was a wreck. where we were filming too. Forgot about the wreck. Yeah. You should tell that story, David. Well, we were filming, this was the night in Anza when we were talking to a lot of the folks out there who would come and watch for Goldie. And we were just wrapping up our last interview and we hear this bang and like screaming.

And we were like, what the hell? and just down the hill from the guy's house we were doing this at, there was a head-on collision in this curve in the road. And everybody was alive, thankfully, but there was definitely some, you know, concussions, and it was not pretty to get down there. So that was, I won't go into any details about it, but that was something we dealt with one night that was like,

what is going on? we were the only people on scene for a good 20 minutes before we showed up. So the whole crew was trying to help people and trying to get vehicles turned off and there was smoke coming out of everything. And then, yeah, we won't go into details. But there were some injuries and people were acting kind of strange. And it was not a good way to spend two hours of shoot time. But luckily everybody was fine. Right.

Thank God you guys were there. Yeah. Wow. I don't know if we helped them at all. Yeah. Exciting. It was certainly excited. Again, these are the things that happen when you try to have a plan and a schedule.

And all of a sudden there's a head-on collision. That's a little scary. Thanks for sharing that. Well, all right, guys. Well, I've seen the film. I want all of our people seen on NAMOCON to see the film. So obvious question. When eventually will we be able to?

to possibly see shadows in the desert. Well, we're actually doing a premier event on the 17th of August in Idaho, in California. You mentioned earlier in the broadcast here. Yeah, a couple weeks ago. Yeah, it would have been in the past in this. It was amazing. Yeah, it was so much fun.

Tom Cruise showed up. It was amazing. Stephen Spielberg. It was Grave to Gall of all. Well, yeah, tell us a little about that screening. I know it will have passed already, but that's so cool that you guys got a premiere. Tell us a little about that, if you don't mind.

Yeah, we chose Idlewild because it's sort of one of the points of the triangle. It's right up there where all the Bigfoot sightings are taking place, the mountain town above Palm Springs. So we chose this tiny theater up there. They've been really good to us, getting everything set up. A lot of the stars of the film are coming to view the film with us, and tons of fans are coming as well. So it's going to be a good time.

We'll probably get some drinks afterwards and just kind of discuss spooky stuff and go from there. But we're pretty excited to finally get it out in front of people. Like I said, it's been four years. So it's been a long road, and we're really pumped to get it in front of people. Yeah. And as of the filming of this, we are in the works to get it streaming, and that we are told should happen in the fall, hopefully maybe October.

But we don't have an exact date, but Ryan can either let you know before this, before you watch this or right after. Yeah, hopefully. Absolutely. Yeah, yeah. Well, if people want to stay updated with you guys on everything with the film and the work that you both do, give it all to us, guys, the socials, the websites, what you got coming up. Derek, let's start with you, man.

Yeah, you can find Monsters Among Us anywhere you find podcasts. We release every Thursday. If you follow our social media accounts, just search for Monsters Among Us. We'll keep you updated on all the stuff pertaining to the film, release dates, all that kind of thing. So, yeah, just follow me there. Awesome. Dave, how about you, man? Same with me.

I'll be posting about when everything comes out. And you'll probably, you have, I don't know, three or four places you could hear that from by now. So whatever you're listening on, just search for blurry photos, hysteria 51, quiz, quiz, bang, bang, or five-minute frights. And hopefully there'll be some information that's readily in your face at any of it. those sites. The Slacker only has four podcasts. You believe that? Only. God, come on, man. Well, guys, again, the film is Shadows in the Desert, high strangeness in the Barago Triangle. And I have with me, again, Derek Hayes and DeFlorra. Gentlemen, thank you so much for joining me. Thanks for having you.

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