Somewhere in the Skies - I Was Burned by a UFO

Episode Date: May 12, 2025

On episode 408, we take a look back at a handful of UFO incidents where witnesses were the unfortunate victims of high intensity burns, allegedly caused by a UFO or close proximity to a UFO. We are joined by several UFO researchers to discuss these concerning cases, including: David Marler, Rob Kristoffersen, Jason McClellan, and Shane Hurd. It is a heated discussion in ever sense of the word, leaving us with a burning curiosity somewhere in the skies. Follow David Marler: https://nufohrc.org/ Follow Jason McClellan: https://x.com/Acecentric Follow Rob Kristoffersen: https://www.instagram.com/yerufoguy/ Follow Shane Hurd: https://shanehurd.com/ Please take a moment to rate and review us on Spotify and Apple. Book Ryan on CAMEO at: https://bit.ly/3kwz3DO Patreon: http://www.patreon.com/somewhereskies ByMeACoffee: http://www.buymeacoffee.com/UFxzyzHOaQ PayPal: [e-mail] Discord: https://discord.gg/NTkmuwyB4F Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/ryansprague.bsky.social Twitter: https://twitter.com/SomewhereSkies Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/somewhereskiespod/ Tik Tok: https://www.tiktok.com/@ryansprague51 Order Ryan’s new book: https://a.co/d/4KNQnM4 Order Ryan’s older book: https://amzn.to/3PmydYC Store: http://tee.pub/lic/ULZAy7IY12U Read Ryan’s articles at: https://medium.com/@ryan-sprague51 Opening Theme Song by Septembryo Copyright © 2025 Ryan Sprague. All rights reserved Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/somewhere-in-the-skies. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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GoogleFi Wireless is not subject to data traffic deprioritization during times of high network usage. No one goes to Hank's for his spreadsheets. They go for a darn good pizza. Lately, though, the shop's been quiet. So Hank decides to bring back the $1 slice. He asks Copilot in Microsoft Excel to look at his sales and costs. To help him see if he can afford it. Co-Pilot shows Hank where the money's going

and which little extras make the dollar slice work. Now, Hanks has a line out the door. Hank makes the pizza. Co-Pilot handles the spreadsheets. Learn more at M365, copilot.com, slash work. In 2022, through a Freedom of Information Act request, an official report titled Anomalous Acute and Sub-acute Field Effects on Human and Biological Tissues was released by the Defense Intelligence Agency.

The release was part of a larger disclosure of over 1,500 pages, related to the work being done by the Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program, or ATIP. The report itself, investigated 42 medical cases and over 300 unpublished incidents where individuals reportedly suffered injuries after encounters with unidentified aerial phenomena or UAPs. These injuries included burns, headaches, dizziness, and neurological symptoms, some of which occurred without direct contact, suggesting exposure to high-frequency electromagnetic radiation. or other advanced energy systems.

Today, we'll examine several of the historical cases and some that weren't included in this report. Featuring conversations with several past guests, David Marler, Rob Christofferson, Jason McClellan, and Shane Hurd, we will ignite a fiery exploration of cases where witnesses were actually burned by a UFO. You are now somewhere in the world.

the skies with your host, Ryan Spray. On April 28, 1964, a 10-year-old girl named Sharon Stoll claimed to have encountered a UFO while playing during recess outside at the Lowell Elementary School in Albuquerque, New Mexico. Accompanied by her eight-year-old sister, Robin, Sharon reported seeing a distinctly egg-shaped object, metallic in appearance hovering silently in the sky. This egg-shaped craft demonstrated an unusual motion, oscillating in a vertical, bouncing manner. This would go on for approximately ten minutes

before rapidly departing in a silent, swift arc. Sharon recounted that the object emitted a strange glow and that she had felt an intense wave of heat on her face during the encounter. Robin, meanwhile, did not engage with the sighting at all. She continued playing and later made, maintained that she had not observed anything unusual. Her lack of corroboration has been a key sticking point for skeptics. However, it's still important to consider that children may process or dismiss experiences differently,

especially under stressful or unfamiliar circumstances. Shortly after the sighting, Sharon began to exhibit concerning physical symptoms. Her face became red and inflamed. and she experienced a persistent burning sensation in her eyes, which led her mother to seek medical attention. The physician who examined her diagnosed the condition as burns consistent with exposure to high intensity, infrared radiation, something not typically found in the environment around a schoolyard.

The doctor reportedly ruled out sunburn, stating that the burns were not consistent with natural exposure. one Lieutenant C.K. Jolly of the Albuquerque Police Department noted that the physician took the symptoms very seriously and believed Sharon may have encountered an unknown source of radiation, possibly linked to the object she described. The incident quickly drew the attention of local newspapers, the police, and civilian UFO research organizations, reflecting the heightened public interest in UFOs at the time. One of the foremost groups to take an interest was the Aerial Phenomena Research Organization, or APRO, which dispatched its founders, Jim and Coral Lorenzen, to conduct an in-person investigation. Coral Lorenzen later expressed reservations about the reliability of the family's account. During interviews, Sharon's mother frequently interrupted, inserting tangential and sometimes outlandish claims, including, that she had contacts with the FBI and referred to a physician she called their family doctor,

whom the Lorenzans later discovered had only recently treated them for the very first time. These inconsistencies suggested to Apro, a possible effort by the mother to embellish the story for attention or maybe even credibility. Nevertheless, Aparo's official findings stopped short of outright dismissal. Sharon's injuries, particularly the infrared-like burns, were documented and considered legitimate anomalies. Apro emphasized the need for further evidence, but acknowledged potential value of the case in the broader study of close encounters involving physiological effects. The United States Air Force also reviewed the case through Project Blue Book. However, their records on the Stole sighting were brief and pretty dismissal.

the summary document exaggerated the claims, noting that Sharon had seen little green men and had been burned by ray guns. These statements were not found in any of the original testimonies, and seemed to reflect either miscommunication or an intentional effort to ridicule and downplay the case. Project Blue Book, by the mid-1960s, adopted a very skeptical approach, often prioritized. conventional explanations, and actively minimizing public concern. In the end, the Sharon Stoll incident remains unresolved, but also very important. It serves as a reminder of how even minor localized sightings can offer valuable data points in the larger UFO question. Sharon's story continues to provoke thought, curiosity, and debate.

That very same year, and also in Numerical, Mexico, another frightenely similar case would unravel. Again in 1964, in Hobbs, New Mexico, Charles Keith Davis, a young boy at the time, noticed something strange in the skies that seemed to be getting closer, brighter, and hotter. I was joined by UFO researcher and founder of the National UFO Historical Records Research Center,

David Marler, to discuss this very case. This is a very interesting case. This is one I read about years ago when I was really very young in the UFO field and just kind of trying to glamor on to anything I could in the way of information. And actually, APRO, the Aerial Phnomino Research Organization, did an article on this in their APRO bulletin in 1964. And 64 was a pivotal year. This occurred in Hobbs, New Mexico, which for those that have gone to Roswell, New Mexico, Hobbs is even further to the, the southeast from Roswell. So it's really out in the middle of nowhere. And this occurred on June 2nd, 1964. And what's intriguing about this is it just wasn't the sighting of a UFO. It was the siding in an apparent burn case where an eight-year-old boy, who was the primary witness in this case, was burned by flames that came from head to toe, yet he was only burned from his jaw line up.

And so I'll set the stage for this, but I just want to kind of start off by letting you know what we're going to be talking about. What's interesting about this, though, despite the severe nature of it, it really wasn't investigated thoroughly other than an article written by Coral and Jim Lorenzen with APRO in 1964. Four years later, one of my huge mentors, if you will, even though I never knew him because he died years before I was involved in UFOs, Dr. James McDonald, who I think is truly one of the best UFO researchers that ever existed, James McDonald was getting interested in UFOs in the mid-60s and started looking into some of these older cases. And in 1968, he had stumbled across this case from 1964. I was able to get copies of some audio recordings he had done in 68 with the eight-year-old boy, who is now 12, and the mother and the grandmother.

Now, what's interesting is this is not just a solitary witness case. The grandson, the boy, who was eight years old, was burned and saw the object, but so too did the grandmother, who was only standing about eight to 12 feet away when this whole episode occurred. Now, to set the stage, Hobbs, New Mexico, you know, very small, mainstream America town, the family owned a series of business. businesses in Hobbs, New Mexico, one of which was the local laundromat. And in this particular case, Charles, who is the name of the boy, Charles had just arrived there and he stated to me in later

interviews that the family businesses were kind of like a second home. You know, when the parents were working or the grandparents were working, he would just kind of hang out while they did their work after school or on weekends. And he had arrived at the laundromat. The laundromat, the The laundromat sits on one of the main streets in Hobbs, New Mexico. Immediately behind the laundromat was just a dirt parking lot. And as Charles told me, even though there was the front door off the main street, more often than not, people would just pull into the back and go in the back entrance. So Charles is playing, this is around roughly four in the afternoon,

and it was a nice sunny day in June in New Mexico. and he was playing when all of a sudden he looks up and he sees what he described as a black top-shaped looking object, kind of rounded on top and then pointed at the bottom. And he looked at this and immediately knew this was something out of the ordinary. And he said, I instinctively felt like it was looking at me and I felt like I just had to move.

So he moved to the left. the object, which was hovering over a building across the alley from immediately behind the lot where he was playing, moved to the left. It mimicked his behavior. He then moved to the right, and then the object moved to the right. It was like mirroring his behaviors. He then crouched down behind a little concrete block that was there in the middle of the lot, and then he stood up and moved to the left or right again, at which point when he stood up, the object moved towards. him like a bullet as he described it. Instinctively, he flinched and put his arms up and closed his eyes.

He said just instinctively, it's like he even told me in my interview, it's like if you're out in the street and you see a car coming and you know you don't have time to move, you just instinctively kind of do this. When he did this, the object moved directly over his head about a foot above his head, belched flames down, which at this point, the grandmother's attention was drawn to him. She was standing in the back door of the laundromat, and when the object moved at him like a bullet, she heard a whooshing sound. And that's what drew her attention to look out the back door of the laundromat, where she saw her grandson with this object above him. And helplessly, she watched this rain of fire come belching out of the bottom of this object. She described, and this is what's interesting about the case, is not only what happened, but what didn't happen.

she described to McDonald in 68 and in other news accounts, because this was documented in the local newspapers, that the fire came out and bathed him from head to toe. And then the fire went back up into the object, and the object took off and made another wishing sound. Now, as you could imagine, the grandmother was shocked and horrified. And even four years later, you hear the guilt in her voice talking to Dr. James McDonald because she didn't do anything to, like, protect.

him or save him from enduring this. Ambition comes in all shapes and sizes. At First Citizens Bank, we roll with your goals because we're built for what you're building. Fit for your ambition for Citizens Bank. And what's interesting about this is we don't just take this boy or now man's testimony at face value. McDonald interviewed the boy, the grandmother, and the mother four years after the event. More importantly, we have contemporaneous reports in the form of the newspaper articles,

which literally chronicled the whole episode from when it happened to the subsequent days and how his recovery was doing in the hospital. So we have all of this well documented from the time period. The other thing that's interesting is in the newspaper accounts, the local police were investigating this case, trying to figure out what happened. You know, did the grandmother abuse the boy? what's going on, did it really happen? And what's interesting, Ryan, is as you read the day-by-day play-by-play in the newspaper,

they start off very skeptical. They think initially, well, maybe he was playing with matches. Well, maybe he was near one of the air vents to the laundromat and a piece of lint that caught fire blew and hit his head. They were trying, like UFO investigators, to find every practical explanation possible. And at the end of this whole period of like a week, week and a half of newspaper articles, you see systematically all those prosaic explanations go by the wayside. And they were left with a question mark.

They didn't know what happened. But none of the other experts, they looked for matches. They couldn't find any matches. They looked to see, was there any dryer vent stuff that blew out and might have caught fire? They couldn't find anything like that. They looked for accelerant. You know, was he playing with gasoline and somehow set it on? They couldn't find any.

accelerant. Another interesting insight that the newspaper accounts afford us is the fact that the FBI was called in. And the FBI had the skin scrapings of the boy's skin, hair, his t-shirt that he wore, and the grandmothers, there's different accounts. One says her blouse, the other one says an apron she was wearing. But whatever she was wearing where he made direct contact immediately after, they took that as well. And it was. sent off to the FBI laboratories for analysis. In 1968, the mother with a lot of consternation at her voice said, you know, the FBI never did get back with us and tell us anything. And my grandmother was mad because she never did get her blouse back. So long story short, I ran across these

recordings. And without going into a lot of detail, I was able to track down the eight-year-old boy. He actually changed his name, nothing to do with the UFO case, but his mother later remarried, and then he took on his adopted father's name. So nothing nefarious, nothing to do with a UFO cover up or anything like that. But I was able to track him down after realizing this, after kind of piecing together different elements. And I was able to find him. He still lives in the southwest portion of the United States. and I interviewed him repeatedly. He has a business in the town where he lives.

He's an upstanding citizen. You know, he's well known within the community, although he's never publicly talked about any of this. And then I've gotten to know his wife as well. And his wife and he both told me, until you came along, my wife has never heard this whole story. She knew about it. we had been dating and we knew we were going to get married, I eventually told her about it.

And she would always periodically say, do you want to tell me more about what happened in 64? Do you want to talk about that incident? And he said, no, never. He goes, it's not until you came to talk about this that she's finally heard the full story. And then subsequent to that, I found all the newspaper articles, which they didn't have, and I found a lot of additional information. I filed a FOIA request with the FBI relative to the FBI laboratory analysis of what they collected. And I immediately got a letter of reply back stating that because it involves third-party individuals and privacy issues, I could not request that information. So I sat there for all of 10 seconds and thought, okay, well, I know the guy who had happened to. So I redrafted

the FOIA in his name, sent it to him and it said, Charles, and I call him Chuck. He goes by Chuck. I said, Chuck, do you mind resubmitting this in your name? Because they can't say it's third party and we can't release it. So he submitted that right before COVID. And we don't know where they're at with FOIA request right now because of COVID. So we don't know if it's just tied up in red tape or if it's in the queue and they'll eventually get to it. But he did resubmit that in his name. It'd be really interesting if we found something after all these years.

Your audience is sitting there thinking, well, Dave said the police investigated. I also consulted with the Hobbs, New Mexico Police Department. Oh, okay. I have to tell you, they were extremely professional, regardless of what I was asking for, you know, being involved in UFO research. They were, it was all via email and phone, but they were extremely polite and respectful. And they said, you know, Dave, when did that happen? I said, well, it happened in 1964, June 2nd, 1964. They said, well, we have some historic records going back, but we don't know how far back they go.

And we also have some old ones on microfilm. But they were very kind, and they checked. and they said, you know, Dave, we did go through our microfilm holdings. We don't have anything that goes back even close to 1964. But they did check, which was at least nice. And I was going to check with the hospital. And actually, I did call. I work in health care.

I've been in health care for over 20 years. I know what the record retention laws are today with regard to medical retention. And you're lucky if they keep anything beyond 10 years, let alone the span of time. But they didn't know who I was. And I just called and I said, I'm calling on behalf of a friend who, had a bad accident back in 1964, and I was just curious who you had any. I had to at least call to say I did it. Otherwise, I'm not a good researcher.

And they kind of almost laughed. No, we don't have records going back that far. So I did consult with the hospital as well. So our best case scenario is if we can get the FBI laboratory results. And not that it may tell us much other than while it was burned, there was no accelerant detected, but at least it's one more piece of validation that the FBI was involved beyond. Exactly. Charles remembers the FBI being there, as he said, you know, when you're eight years old and you're in the hospital and, you know, these government guys come in and they've got, you know, sidearms.

He goes, when you're eight years old, that's cool. He goes, you remember. And so he remembered that. And he also said that he felt like the FBI treated him with a little bit more respect and less skepticism than the local police did, which I thought was an interesting observation for an eight-year-old to kind of pick up on that and remember it. but he's never talked about this publicly since it happened. He really just wanted to move on with his life. He, and I have to emphasize this, again, for the skeptics out there, did not believe in UFOs before, did not think this was a UFO,

other than a true unidentified flying object, and even today would not consider himself a UFO believer. He and his family were devout Pentecostals back in 1964. I think that's very important. These are not the people that are going to concoct a UFO story. This is the furthest thing probably from their reality. And so, again, they were upstanding business people. They had multiple businesses.

There's no reason that they would want to do this to ruin their reputation by concocting a story like this. But, you know, it's a well-documented case. James McDonald followed up on it and then kind of following in his footsteps. I wanted to track this guy down years later. One, because other than McDonald doing phone and interviews, that was the extent of the investigation. And even Coral and Jim Lorenzo with APRO, they never made a trip to Hobbs. So it was all done by phone. And so how could you not

investigate this case? I mean, it's physical evidence of something very traumatic occurring. And so I went to the University of New Mexico where I do a lot of historical research. They have exhausted microfilm holdings for newspapers that aren't digitized. One of those are the Hobbs, New Mexico newspapers, which gave me all these additional details. and verification, in addition to some other newspapers from the regional area, the county newspaper, and even there were, the reports went as far as Lubbock and Odessa, Texas, where I found some additional references. But despite the fact he was covered in fire, he was only burned from the jaw line up. There was slight redness to his neck in the back, but not severe. It was more like a sunburn.

but the newspaper accounts state that he had suffered second-degree burns. The mother, grandmother, and boy attested to the fact in 68 that it was second and third-degree burns, and even today Charles says, well, it was second and third-degree burns. The most bizarre thing is, despite being bathed head-to-toe, he only had the injuries here. It's interesting because the descriptions in the newspaper mirror what James McDonald was told by the grandmother and the mother. other. They said his ears were so severely burned. They were turned inside out and looked like ground beef. His lips were swelled and burned. And his face had swelled up so bad, you couldn't even see his eyes. They were sunken in because the face had swelled so bad. And so, I mean, severe

injuries, but the most bizarre thing, and again, documented in the newspapers from the time, I mean, this is all confirmed. We're not taking the witnesses. Despite this craziness, these inconsistencies, adding to the inconsistencies of the fact he had no permanent scarring. Wow. I mean, there was some sort of deformity, right? No deformity. When I first met the man and, you know, we talked, the whole time I'm doing the initial interview, and I've interviewed him like three or four times now.

The whole time, I'm just sitting there and I'm like scanning his head, his face, his ears, his lips. I mean, looking at his neck. And I'm like, and I finally said at one point on the videotaped interview because it started with audio interviews and then I've built a trust. I'm happy to say now I'm very good friends with him and his wife as is my wife who went down to

help assist with the interviews. He can't explain it. I'm Charles Keith Davis from Hobbs, New Mexico and in 1964 I encountered a strange object

during daylight hours at my grandparents' laundromat that appeared over some apartment buildings that was in the shape of a top that was been described as a UFO or whatever you want to describe it but it followed me

and swooped on my body and gave me second and third degree burns on my face my grandmother witnessed part of it, Randy Smith, and I don't know what it was. I just know. that I encountered something very unusual, that we've kind of kept under the closet for 55 years.

And up until Dave came, we haven't talked about it much. It's kind of been like, I'm not going to say a family secret, but there's so many skeptics out there that it's not something you want to talk about. And if you ask me what it is or what it was, I don't know. I just know it wasn't something you see every day or I've ever seen in my lifetime again. if it was domestic or from outer space, I have no ideal at all.

I just know that I saw it. It swooped toward me, engulfed my body. When it left, I had second and third degree burns from my face up. I just remember filling engulfed. I don't remember filling it burning me. The best I could describe it's engulf, and maybe you're gasping for air because you have a lack of oxygen. I just knew when it engulfed me something was wrong, real wrong.

You know what I mean? Excuse my dumb terminology. Not regular wrong, but serious wrong. Right. And I needed to get out of this engulfed them. And I just remember, like, somebody grabbed me, but nobody was grabbing me. I was just engulfed. Yeah, I was engulfed.

And there was an immediate panic. But in hindsight, and I'm being very sincere, I think I would have I knew something was wrong when it you know something's wrong but when it actually something was real wrong

I don't know how to describe that I don't think I felt the sense that I was going to die but I felt the sense I had to get away from it I had to get away now or it was going to be tragic but I felt no pain

I saw no fire more than anything, I remember them telling me my face and my hair was on fire. But I don't remember filling pain at that point. But I think it was in shock. I know they brought in the FBI, the Hobbs Police Department, and to this day we still don't have answers. I know they took part of my clothing to check it for evidence. They checked the area I was burned.

And 55 years later, I'm going to tell you there's no answers. any more than we have the day that the occurrence occurred. Rewinding back to the year 1952, a hardware store clerk and scoutmaster, known as DS Sunny Disverges, was driving a group of Boy Scouts home when he saw a bright light flash over West Palm Beach in Florida. Thinking it may be a downed plane or even a car accident,

Disvergis pulled into the shoulder of the highway so that he could get a closer look, armed with a machete and flashlight, he entered the Palmetto Grove near where he saw the lights, leaving the boys in the vehicle with instructions to alert the residents of a nearby farmhouse if he did not return within 15 minutes. He did return within 15 minutes, but he had quite a story to tell. I joined UFO researchers Jason McClellan and Mufon Field Investigator Shane Hurd to discuss this controversial. showcase. This happened on the evening of August 19, 1952 in Palm Beach County, Florida. The deputy sheriff received an urgent call from a family who had three frantic boy scouts in their farmhouse.

They were claiming that their scoutmaster, DS Sunny Disverger's. He was a hardware clerk and a ex-US Marine, which we'll get to. He had gone into the thick brush of the forest to investigate gave some strange lights that they'd witnessed while camping. And he thought maybe it was a downed plane. He wanted to see if anyone was hurt, needed help. So he entered the thick forest with a machete to clear a path. And he disappeared out of sight. The boys, they claimed that the lights started to pulsate a very bright red.

And they could hear their scoutmaster screaming in terror. So they bolt. These boys are 10, 11, and 12 years old. They're pretty scared at what's. going on and they run to the nearest home to get help. And when the deputy sheriff shows up, the boys, Bobby Ruffing, David Rowan and Charles Stephen, they look very scared and they start to tell the authorities what had happened. And immediately the deputy sheriff and the boys, they head to the site where they found Desperger's parked car and they start shouting his name,

you know, hoping to hear a response. And this went on for a while and just about when they were ready to move on to another location, a man emerges from the trees in the forest waving a machete and he's incoherent, just babbling. And it was disvergers and he looked terrified. So they get the machete away from him, thank God. And reluctantly, they start to follow him to where these strains lights had been. And in a small clearing, they find his flashlight. And close by, they noticed the grass was flattened as though someone had been lying. on it and a search turned up nothing really else too unusual at the time. But they marked the locations of the flashlight, the crushed grass with some twigs,

and the three of the men and the Boy Scouts, they trek back to the road. And then they brought Disverger's and the boys to the county sheriff's office. And Disverger said that the hair on his forearms were singed and his skin was badly burned. And at the sheriff's office, he and the boys were. requestioned. It was noted that Disvergis arms were reddened and his hair was in fact singed, and they also noted three tiny holes burned into his hat. This is when Disvergis started to explain what had happened in the time that the boys left, and when he was found babbling with the machete, he claimed that when he entered the clearing where he'd seen the light, he noticed a nauseating

smell and then the feeling of somebody or something watching him. He next next experienced a sensation of oven-like heat coming from above. So he looks up and he couldn't see the stars in the sky and he's standing beneath this hovering object. Now, the object was circular. It was dull black with no seams. It was about 30 feet in diameter, he says, with a height of about 10 feet and a dome on top. And the bottom edge was glowing. So he feels immediate threat when he sees this thing. He starts to back away. And then he hears this like, like a hatch opening and a red flare light comes from the side of the object and it starts to move towards him. So he blocks his eyes from the light and he notices that the light turned into a red

mist and completely enveloped him. He claimed that this is when he blacked out. When he awoke, he was leaning against a tree and his vision was severely hindered. He felt around and was able to grab the machete and stumbled his way back to the clearing of the road. And that's when he meets up with the authorities and the Boy Scouts. So eventually, by protocol, the case was handed over to the Air Force, which subsequently led to an investigation by Project Blue Book, specifically chief investigator, Edward Ruppelt. So Rupelt arrives in Florida. He takes down statements. He goes to this site, and he's able to obtain soil samples from the clearing where Desperger's claim the encounter took place. And the soil, it remained consistent, but the root structure of

the plants in question were charred black, and the lower leaves had deteriorated as if by heat. So the only way the lab could come close to duplicating this effect was to place live clumps of grass in a pan of sandy soil and heat it about 300 degrees Fahrenheit. So it's clear something a very high heat was out there or was planned to be out there, which will get. to shortly. But, uh, Rupel, he first found the boys and the scoutmaster to be very genuine. And the trace evidence left behind was very intriguing. But this case, as we'll find out, was pretty much basically labeled a hoax, which is where I'll stop talking and sort of let you guys hop in. You mentioned the, the hoax aspect and, you know, a lot of the red flags and

shadiness associated with this case. Let's talk a little more about some of the controversy involved in this case and what some of that hoaxing aspects are. You mentioned in your summary, Ryan, about the Scoutmaster and his military background. Do you want to talk a little more about that? Yeah, a little shady. I mean, Disverger's, he was in the U.S. Marines, but he was dishonorably discharged because he stole a car while he was in the Marines. And so there you go.

I mean, the guy's clearly, you know, he's got a little rap sheet going on at this point. I think when he was describing this to investigators, he even described it as saying that like he was less than honorably discharged. Less than honorably. Look, I mean, this is the reason we have security police in the military. Like, they are their own community and they have to police even their own people. So like, I understand like stuff happens when you're in the military, whether when you're not doing. doing your service, you're doing your thing and things can happen. So, I mean, stealing a car.

I know a lot of people who have stolen cars in their past. So, I mean, that happens. They're 20-year-old kids, too, right? Exactly. That's exactly right. And he's trying to do better by becoming a scout mask. Right. Let's put that out there.

Just because somebody stole a car doesn't mean that that means they can't have a UFO or an extraterrestrial experience, right? Exactly. But, you know, on the flip side, we also have a lot of people in the town where this happened saying that he was known to be like a tellteller as a word too. Always trying to outdo the past story and, yeah, really looking for attention. Yeah. And any time you investigate credibility of the reporting person is still a valid factor that you got to consider. Right.

Shane, is that common in Mufon investigations looking into the witness themselves? Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, it's not done surreptitiously without their knowledge or anything like that, but you have a discussion about, you know, what do they do? What is their background, you know? And I imagine if you had a really weighty case, something, you know, quite serious, you might go down the path of a background checked. I mean, because, you know, under intense scrutiny, those things are going to come out. So better you know them in advance. Good point. Yeah, control the story. before it controls you.

I got it. And also a big part of this story with the hoax aspect, you know, wanting the newspapers to interview him and perhaps by his story. Very awkward the way this all came about

because he was, you know, asking Project Bluebeck, asking the Air Force for permission to speak to the press. Yeah. Yeah, which is always tough. I mean, when media or entertainment, and immediately wants to latch on to a case, like, right after it's happened.

That can be a problem, and that happens, you know? We know, like, Travis Walton had to deal with that for a while before he finally said, yes, okay, fine. You can have the rights to my story. So I imagine it can't be easy. And again, every person is different. We all handle situations differently. We handle traumatic situations, stress, and any adverse things in our life differently.

So although it's not how I would react and most people would react to immediately after something allegedly traumatic happening to then look at how you can profit off that, I guess some people might. But typically the response initially is just wanting to figure out what the hell happened, right? I mean, that's your first priority, like trying to figure out what the situation was, hoping that people don't think you're crazy, you know, trying to convince your family of that. first of all, let alone everybody else in the world. But also, because of that ridicule, wouldn't want to be very quick out of the gate to announce it to the world and just inviting in more ridicule. Our next case brings us up north to Canada.

In 1967, within Whiteshell Provincial Park in the province of Manitoba, Stefan Mikalek reported a UFO encounter near Falcon Lake, claiming he approached a landed, disc-shaped craft. What happened next would usher in one of the most well-documented close encounter cases in all of UFO history. It would go on to be investigated by both the Royal Canadian Mounted Police and the United States Air Force. The case was covered extensively in the media, primarily by the iconic late primetime television show, Unsolved Mysteries. I know, you can hear the theme music in the back of your head

right now, right? Me too. Well, get ready. UFO researcher and podcaster, Rob Kerstofferson, joined me as we covered this case in depth, which left Mikalak with burns. He'd never forget. This is an interesting case. We have Falcon Lake May 20, 1967, so we are moving over to Canada, Manitoba. By his own admission, Stephen Mickelak is an ordinary man who leads an ordinary life. But in 1967, Mikalak claims that his life was turned upside down when he had an extraordinary encounter with a mysterious flying craft. We get, you know, nature-loving, bird-loving Stephen Mikalak, right, at the start of this one, which was so refreshing. I wasn't expecting to see him on camera for this case. So, yeah, yeah. Did you know anything about

this case, Rob, prior to this episode? Yeah, man, like Stephen McIllack is probably, well, sorry, Stefan McIllack, because they call him Stephen McIllack in the episode. His name is Stefan McIllack. Oh, that's good to know. Yeah, he's from Poland. So he's probably one of the most interesting UFO witnesses that I've, you know, ever researched or anything like that. But he was a, he was an amateur geologist. You know, he did it on the weekends.

And basically what he would do is you'd go into the Manitoba Wilderness and he'd look for quartz veins because quartz veins would often lead to silver deposits. So this was his amateur hobby in 1967, May 20th, 1967, he decided to go out into the wilderness. You know, he told his family, see you. I'm going to look for silver. And he goes up the night before and he sets out early the next day. to go and look. And shortly before, I want to say, it's like 9 o'clock that morning, he finds a quartz vein. And, you know, he's just going to town, going to town.

He has lunch and then gets back at it. And a few minutes after lunch, he notices that there's some geese that are just like going nuts, you know? And he looks over at him to see what the heck startled him. And he looks up and he sees these two, what he describes as cigar-shaped objects with a bump on the top of them. And one of them flies off, but one of them starts to come down closer to where he is. And dear God, the CGI on these UFOs is terrible. What are you talking about? No, like, it looked fake as fucking.

You can tell. This is probably, in terms of the UFO coverage on Unsold Mysteries, this was probably the worst CGI they did. I can admit that. Yeah, yeah. And this UFO lands on this rock field near where Stefan Mikkelak is. And the general shape of it that they got on the show is correct. That's exactly pretty much what he saw. So he goes up to it.

And he thinks at first that this is an American experimental craft. and it's having some kind of trouble. So he goes up to the craft and he says, hello there, Yankee boys. You said this place was steps from the water. We just haven't found the steps yet. How much did we save? Enough.

Enough to get lost. Or you could book a stay with Hilton. Welcome to your ocean front room. Just steps from the water. The Hilton sale is on now. Book on Hilton.com or the Hilton app and save up to 20% to get. Get the stay you expected.

When you want savings, not surprises. It matters where you stay. Hilton, for the stay. Trouble? Thinking of USA, I said, okay, Yankee Boys. A Yankee boy. Seems to me you are in trouble. You got troubles, I'll help you.

Come on out. We'll see what we can do about it. Oh, man. And when he doesn't get a response in English, she starts talking in German, Russian, Polish, Italian,

there were a bunch of languages that he knew. My God. When his English received no response, Stephen tried Russian. Then Polish. Don't you, please. I'll help you, help you, please.

And finally German. Deutsch? Speak in German. How is German? house. I'll have to help in it. And he just like yelled it at this fucking UFO. So a door on this thing just opens up. Like it just, he said it like kind of just like slid open to the side.

And he kind of approaches up close to it. He has a welder's goggles on. He's a welder by trade. He's an industrial mechanic. And he puts down the vizor to look into this thing. And the CGI inside this guy. Goddiam craft. It's terrible. Right. And I think he even admits, at least his son does later on, in a book that his son

helped co-write that, like, they kind of just made that up what was in the craft. Because he didn't really actually see too much inside of it, from what I remember. No, no, because it was like a, you know, really bright light coming from inside. But he described hearing what he thought were voices. And the way that he does it and the show is so fucking great. I love it. there was a gritty, gree, gree, gree, gree, gree, kind of shrieky talk like a, like a kid's in problem or something. What? Well, okay.

Well, while you're on that, Rob, dude, this guy is like, he is a performer. You know, he is. He's a good storyteller. So, like, having the actual witness on there and having him be that engaging, I think only adds to the story. And some people might think that's a bad thing. But for me, I'm like, damn. Like, this dude is passionate about what he saw and, like, he is reliving it as he's telling this. Oh, yeah.

You can catch him, like, when he's describing looking up at it for the first time and he's on camera describing it, describing it, he's looking up as if he's reliving it at the time. And, like, he is, he's very passionate about the story. And it's something that carries on even after the initial encounter. but like after you know he kind of peers in a little bit the door on the craft closes and it kind of lifts up a little bit and it rotates and in front of him is this like grid of it looks like an exhaust grid yeah like portholes almost yeah yeah and he is shot in the chest with hot gas and it immediately catches his shirt on fire to which he He rips it off and stuff. And to make the point, this craft was landed on this rock for approximately 30 minutes. So he was actually able to sketch this thing out in his notebook before he even approached the damn thing. But, you know, he starts to wander out.

And then I decided to say, now is the time for me to buzz off from here. Go out. So I start going. He's like half naked. Yeah. Kind of trying to... Stumbling through the woods. Yeah.

And like, I just want to note that the guy that is stumbling in this episode has clearly never stumbled a day in his life and you can fucking tell. Yeah. He didn't really get the director's note on how to stumble correctly. Well, before we get to the next step, Rob, I have to say, I don't mean to laugh at this guy getting caught on fire, but the way they did it in the show was just so... comically over the top that I had to stop the episode because I was laughing so hard. But that being said, like, if that actually happened to Mikalek, that is terrible.

Yeah, it is. It's not one of the best experiences that you ever want. But, yeah, it is kind of comical in the way that it happens. But, yeah, he essentially stumbles to his pack to find his compass. to figure out how to get back to the road because he needs medical assistance. He's in a lot of pain. He's nauseous. And he finds that his compass is just spinning wildly.

He doesn't know why. So it takes him a little while. I think it takes him like an hour. But he finally stumbles back to the road. And what they don't tell you in the show is that there's a car that passes him. And he tries to flag it down. And initially, he just drives by. And then it comes back.

and it's an RCMP officer. Okay. And he explains what happened to him. He explains that a UFO fucking shot him in the chest with some gas. Basically a UFO farted on this guy because he smelled like sulfur. So we know, you know, this UFO farted on him is disrespectful. UFOs should not be farting on people. It's a real problem in this case.

And I hope it never happened to anybody else. Yeah, it's a cosmic crop dust. Yeah. It really is. And this RCMP officer listens to his story and he turns to him and he says, sorry, I have other duties to perform and he drives away. What the hell? Yeah, this is in the original, like, articles that Chris Rukowski actually wrote for Flying

Sauce Review and for NYCAP. There's PDF copies available out there. But the report is just wild. But yeah, he claims that's what the RCMP officer told him. And he drove off. Wow. It took Mickalak somewhere in the neighborhood of four hours to stumble back into town. He was doing his best to kind of keep his distance from people because he thought he was like radioactive or something like that.

But he ultimately buys a bus ticket to go back to Winnipeg where he's from. And he's taken to a hospital. and where they kind of like they don't really do a lot for him they give him medications for like his nausea and for some other symptoms but they don't really know what's causing it

and they ruled out radiation poisoning which is weird because the guy has kind of like symptoms of radiation by and large but right yeah we should stress like he had these circular burn marks on like his lower apt in that matched what he says was the same like grid on the portholes of the craft.

So if you're right, if, if that exhaust came out and burned him, like it matched perfectly to the sketch he made of the craft that he saw. So yeah, interesting. Absolutely. And eventually, he actually ended up going to the Mayo Clinic in Minnesota. And they studied him for about a week. he goes back and like for a while he actually had to fight to get his medical records because they never sent them to him. He actually, I believe it was John Keel and another researcher named Bertolt Schwartz who actually helped him fill out like medical release forms in order to get his stuff but they never found anything, you know, out of the ordinary.

but what he noted was like every, I think it was like every three weeks, the like grid pattern burn that was on his abdomen would come back. It would disappear and then come back and the symptoms would come back from it too, which is wild. Yeah, that's pretty weird.

But the investigators did end up going back to the site where it had occurred and they found like that there was like radioactive, of ore running underneath it. But they found that there was like a large burnt area on this rock where it was black. So, you know, some physical evidence there. They found, I think there were like some trees nearby that had branches that were taken off to.

But there was also a year after the incident happened, Mikalak returned to the landing site again with a friend. And they found this like very strange kind of like. silver that was coated with radioactive ore that a lot of people think was like planted for some reason. Yeah, yeah, they found it like not too far below the ground, I think, but enough where people are like, oh, it looks like it was kind of freshly dug in there. This is one of the biggest mysteries and one of the biggest puzzles, and skeptics have pointed to this as the reason why the case should be discounted.

why would particles and metal fragments of this size and radioactivity have been missed by all previous investigators? And this is one mystery that we don't have definite answers to this day. You have that going on, but I mean, otherwise, this is like a pretty solid case. It is. It's solid. And I think, you know, the Canadian Air Force got involved with some people from the U.S. They came down to investigate. And, you know, like you mentioned, Chris Rikowsky was a big part of this. entire thing. And, you know, to this day says it's one of the best cases Canada ever had, and I'd

have to agree. I mean, you know, there's some bumps along the way with some dubious researchers that Mikkelak got involved with. But that happens to any UFO witness. You know, you've got to be careful who you end up working with, because their intentions might not be as, how would you say, altruistic as you'd hope they'd be. But one of the other things, Rob, I thought was interesting. in the book written by his son, he remembers when Unsolved Mysteries came to film his father for this.

And during breaks, one of the guys, one of the crew members kind of passively said to to the father, man, this must have been the most difficult and, like, most remarkable experience of your life. And his father shook his head and said, no, being in

a concentration camp, escaping to America, joining the army and going to Germany to translate and dismantled concentration caps was the most difficult part of my life. Yeah. Holy shit, dude. So at this point, like, all the Unsolved Mysteries crew are gathered around, and he's, like, regaling them with these other stories.

So, I mean, even this dude might have witnessed beings from another world land, but he can even say to himself, like, I've experienced much more difficult things in my life. Yeah, absolutely. He's, uh, I, I love that man so much. I do. Yeah. And the fact that you spent, how many languages could the dude speak?

It's just crazy. Like, I wish I could have met this guy. You know, unfortunately, he did pass away. Yeah, he passed away, I think, in the 90s at some point. Yeah, yeah. So, I mean, we kind of only have his story to rely on at this point. But like I said, his son has been very vocal. He co-wrote a book with Chris Rukowski and his father about all of this.

So definitely I think people should check this one out. is definitely one of the most underrated cases, I think, out there. Our conversation with Rob Christofferson continues with another Unsolved Mystery segment about the Cash Landrum UFO incident. In 1980, Betty Cash, Vicky Landrum, and Vicki Landrum, and Vicki's grandson, Kobe Landrum, were driving home to Dayton, Texas on an isolated road in the woods. They suddenly witnessed lights moving above the trees. As they continued driving, the lights got brighter and much, much closer.

So close, in fact, that they could see at treetop level a huge diamond-shaped craft, expelling flame and emitting significant heat. What would happen next would set off a string of investigations, lawsuits, and even tragedy. This is one of the saddest cases out there. We're going to be talking about Cashlandrum incident of the. December, 1980, December 29th. On a desolate highway in Texas, two women and a young boy had a bizarre encounter with an unidentified object. Today, all three are plagued by mysterious illnesses whose symptoms began to appear that very night.

Betty Cash, Vicky Landrum, and Colby, the son, this is in Dayton, Texas. And, yeah, Rob, would you mind giving us kind of the Clifference version of this one? Yeah, so they were returning from dinner and I think they had played bingo that night too. It was kind of like 8.30, 9 o'clock at night and they're just driving down the highway and they see kind of like a bright light before them and they keep getting closer and closer to this thing and what they find is that there's this diamond shaped object just hovering maybe 10, 15 feet above the road and it's shooting jets of fire. down at it and I believe it was Vicky Landrum who was

she thought it was like the second coming of Christ and she was like holding Colby close to her in the car and Betty Cash got out of the vehicle and she wanted to get up as close as she could to this thing and

she described it as like throwing down this intense amount of heat but like she described this burning sensation as if it was coming from inside of her. So she was out of the car maybe for like a minute or two before Vicky just calls back to her, tells her we got to get out of here. So she runs back to the car. And when she goes to open the door, her hand is like she burns her hand.

It's really hot. And like the fucking unsolved mystery's goddamn. reenactment. If you look at the back window of that fucking car on the driver's side, it looks like it says ah, or ha ha, or, you know, who the fuck wrote that in the goddamn fucking window? Yeah, what, like, um, crew member just got like, bumped from an episode or something. And like, the revenge was to put ha ha on the window. I don't know. When you sent me, you sent me an image of that, you're like, dude, look at this window of the car. And I'm like, look at, look at, I'm like, I don't see anything.

There's no reflection. Oh, okay. And when I first read it, I'm not going to lie. I thought it said hellier. And I was like, no, no, we are not going down hellier territory with this. We're not going down that road. We're not going down that road. Some things need to stay separate.

And the cash loungeum case is one of them. So fucking Betty, she gets back in the car. she has to basically open the door with her hand inside her jacket and they don't go anywhere though which i i don't think they can i think she has kind of trouble starting the car or whatever but uh all of a sudden this kind of this thing starts to fly away a little bit and then they count like 22 or 23 of these um helicopters that uh come into the area and i know like i i don't think they, I don't think they described it in this particular episode, but I know in other accounts, they said that there were two of them that looked like they were escorting this thing. And then

the others were, you know, just kind of following along. They were like two, almost like they dropped something to attach to this thing. But like, they essentially escorted this thing away. And it was only a few hours after this incident that they all started to have health problems. They all started to experience nausea. There was like these kind of mysterious looking sunburns. There was blistering. There was, basically they found that they were exposed to high dose levels of radiation. Now, they ended up meeting with the government, the Air Force and stuff.

And the reenactment is just so fucking ballsy on those guys. Like, they're having this like meeting with. the fucking Air Force and they're like, well, what do you want us to do about it? And Betty Cash is like, we hold you partially responsible and shit. And, uh, you know, the government's like, well, you can fill out this form and have your, and send it back to us. And it's like, wow, what a bunch of dicks. I got so angry during that.

Yeah. That's how it went down. Like, fuck those guys. Yeah, absolutely. And like, it's as if the Air Force, you know, we can't acknowledge this because imagine if they acknowledge that they were. responsible for a bunch of UFO incidents that caused negative health effects to individuals. They would be in so much goddamn shit.

But, yeah, they basically denied them and they never got anything from the government. I mean, Betty Cash was hospitalized yearly for problems up into her death. It's so sad, man. I mean, well, not only that, like, even during when they met with the Air Force officials, like, they could give two shits about her health. She, she was, like, lost 50% of her hair. She can, like, barely sit, and they're in there interrogating them about what they saw. And after they get the story, they're like, yeah, well, we had nothing to do with that. Uh, thank you by.

Yeah, fucking dick bags. This poor woman, yeah, they're clearly sick. and something happened. And like to bring them under the guys that, oh, come in, let's hear about it and we're going to help you. And then in turn say, whoa, this woman's like dying from this thing. We got nothing to do with this. Like jump ship, jump ship.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And fucking, there was a, where the hell were they? It was like an air show or something at an air base. And I don't know if this was in the episode. I don't think it was. but they had gone to this air show and, like, Colby had seen one of those double-rotored helicopters that they claimed to see like 23 of that night. He was kind of scared of it, so they brought him up to it to show him that it wasn't a problem.

You know, it's nothing to be scared of. And the pilot of this said he was in the area at the time to escort a UFO or something like that because of a UFO incident. And yeah, this guy, they confronted him and said, well, it's good that we found you because we were, you know, we were involved in that incident. You know, we were in the car. And then he clammed up and he said, you know, he just shut up and, you know, excused himself. But there were researchers that tracked this guy down who claimed that, yeah, he did know of the incident. But he wasn't one of the helicopter pilots that was in the area at the time. Fuck you, dude.

Wow. Either way, what a dick. Yeah. Well, could you imagine, like, being Colby, like, you're terrified of these, like, Chinook helicopters or whatever they were. And then, like, they would be, like, bringing a kid up to a clown and being like, see, he's nice, he's nice. And then it turns out to be it, you know? Yeah. It turns out to be one of those fucking guys.

Yeah, yeah. That's crazy. Well, you did mention, you know, 1982, they filed a lawsuit against the U.S. government. It was dismissed on a lack of evidence, of course, because the government never admitted to anything. And Betty Cash passed away due to the elements from this event. So it's just such a sad story. But the helicopter thing, I do want to bring it back. I remember hearing Kevin Randall, who has been in the Army, the Air Force, he's worked with a bunch of the military branches.

And this is a case where he has a lot of issue. I mean, if we're talking whatever, 23 helicopters in the area, he brings up a good point. Like, that's a lot of people, you know, in those helicopters. That's a lot of military officers who would have been involved. And the fact that not a single one has ever come forward, except for this either fake guy or liar about having been a part of it, he finds it pretty hard to believe. And honestly, how well would they have been able to identify 23 of these helicopters? at night, I don't know. Yeah.

You know, I don't know what the situation was. I mean, you gotta think the sun's down by that point. It's not like, you know, the summer when it's out later at night. But maybe it was like, I don't know, a much less, a much less significant number than that, whatever. But like, clearly they saw helicopters out there. Like, there's no denying that. Right. And especially the story kind of, that kind of, it kind of, it kind of, it kind of, it kind of,

bolsters it up. Right. And I mean, they had a retired police officer who even admitted he saw helicopters that night in this episode too. Yeah. Something happened. Um, they were all directly affected by it. And, uh, they'll, you know, never be the same after it. So yeah, pretty sad case. But again, just one of those ones where physical effects from UFOs are real. And, like, this stuff happens. So, um, yeah, they're not all love and light guys. Definitely not all love and light. No matter where they came from. These are just a handful of cases where witnesses to UFO events reported having been burned. And while most, if not all, may have been completely by accident or because of the proximity to these anomalous craft,

the fact remains that UFOs always have and continue to have drastic physiological effects on witnesses and experiences. And it's yet another piece of the thing. puzzle that continues to fuel our burning curiosity somewhere in the skies. Special thanks to all of our guests featured in this episode. You could find links to their work in the show notes. And you could find us across all social media by searching for the Somewhere in the Skies podcast. Please do us a huge favor and be sure to rate and review the podcast on Apple and Spotify. It helps us tremendously in gaining visibility.

and finding new listeners. Again, just head on over to Apple and Spotify and search for the Somewhere in the Skies podcast. Want ad-free early access to episodes, bonus episodes, free access to all of my articles and priority to ask our guests your questions? Join our Patreon page today.

Visit patreon.com slash somewhere skies. Again, that's patreon.com slash somewhere skies. If you have an interesting UFO case, theory, video, or image, feel free to tag us in your social media posts or join our very active Facebook group. Once more, just look for Somewhere in the Sky's podcast on Facebook and ask for an invite. Thank you so much for listening. And remember, keep your feet on the ground, but never stop searching somewhere in the sky.

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