Somewhere in the Skies - James Fox: UFO Retrieval Programs, Non-Human Intelligence & The Program (SITS CLASSIC)

Episode Date: August 12, 2026

In this Somewhere in the Skies Classics episode, Filmmaker, James Fox discusses the years of investigation behind the documentary, The Program, which explores the bipartisan Congressional effort to uncover the truth about UFOs, alleged crash retrieval programs, and claims of non-human biologics. As the UAP conversation continues to evolve, this episode provides essential context behind one of the most talked-about documentaries on the subject. Watch The Program HERE Join us at ANOMACON on September 12th: http://www.anomacon.com Send us a voicemail: https://www.speakpipe.com/SomewhereSkiesPod Patreon: http://www.patreon.com/somewhereskies ByMeACoffee: http://www.buymeacoffee.com/UFxzyzHOaQ Substack: https://ryansprague.substack.com/ All socials and books: https://linktr.ee/somewhereskiespod Email: [e-mail] Opening theme song by Septembryo Closing song by Per Kiilstofte Copyright © 2026 Ryan Sprague. All rights reserved. #UAP #UFOs #JamesFox #TheProgram #UFOcases #Documentary #Documentaries Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The first ever all-electric 2026 Subaru Trail Seeker is the EV for the Trail Obsessed, with up to 444 kilometers on a full charge and DC fast charging from 10 to 80% in about 30 minutes in ideal conditions. Plus, ample ground clearance and symmetrical all-wheel drive make the 2026 Trail Seeker the most capable EV Subaru has ever built. Test drive it at your local Subaru dealer or visit Subaru.ca. Hear that? It's your money calling. It wants a promotion. Elevate your savings with the Scotia high-interest savings account.

Always earn high regular interest rates that grow the more you save and invest. Conditions apply. Visit scotiabank.com slash h-I-SA to learn more. Scotia Bank. You're richer than you think. While our government's official position is not to speculate on this subject, we can choose to let our minds explore other possibilities. To use our imaginations, for if we consider that astro-scientists agree on one point,

that the possibility of life elsewhere is not only quite probable. Some feel is there without a doubt. Let us suppose them that these objects are real space vehicles, extraterrestrial origin, and not an illusion of the mind. This is somewhere in the skies with Ryan Sprague. Really glad you saw the film. Yes. and that you had a cameo appearance.

I got up to the spot. You know, that was cool. It was, let's start there, James. Guys, I'm with James Fox, filmmaker of the phenomenon moment of contact, many films before that, but we're going to be talking today about his brand new film,

The Program. But let's start there, James. We had the opportunity to actually hike up in the hills of Calvin, Scotland. with a drone. Oh man, that was an adventure and experience. And we went with former RAF press officer Craig Lindsay. Remember the car ride with Craig Lindsay? How awesome that was? I will never forget that. And I was wondering if any of that would make it into the film,

because you as a filmmaker, you're always filming. And I remember you actually had a camera on us when we were talking. I did. And I really, sometimes I look back on things and I think, why didn't I? I put that in there? Well, you can only put so much in. Like, that's the curse of being a filmmaker. You could only put so much stuff in, and I had it kind of mapped out in my head. I mean, I do everything kind of by the seat of my pants. Anybody who's worked with me in the field's like, geez, this is pretty, this is a pretty

unusual style of filmmaking. You're just winging it. But the thing about that is, is that I'm legitimately in the field documenting what's happening while it's happening. I'm not staging things. right so when i'm learning about things you're actually seeing me learn about cases and and and and and legislation and all that stuff you know so i think that's one of the reasons why people seem to like the documentaries because they're they're not staged they're very it's very real right and you know

we were talking off air i'm filming my first documentary um directly inspired by words you gave me uh while you were here in Scotland. And I would have to agree, like, as I was filming, things were happening. People I was interviewing were like, you should talk to this person. Or, oh, you didn't hear about that. You need to go pursue that. And it's amazing. You can go in with an idea about what the film is going to be about. And then it'll completely change. Like you said, the more you interview people, things were evolving in the world of UFOs as you were filming the program. You were able to get a lot of that in. But yeah, let's talk about that.

Well, I finished a rough cut, and I wasn't terribly, I'm never really pleased with a rough cut, right? You got to get somewhere, right? And so I got the rough cut done. I'm looking at it. I'm like, I really need some fresh eyeballs on this. And there are some updates. There were additional people coming forward. So, you know, all right, time out, you know, stop editing.

Let me walk away from this film for a little bit. Let me bring in some fresh eyeballs. Like Mungia came on on. board. He's a great guy. Super technically savvy and creative and just a wonderful, hard working guy. I mean, he really put in like 17-hour days. Anyway, and I went and did some additional filming. I went to D.C. I went to Pennsylvania. And then there was a guy that had just stepped down from his position, Kirk McConnell, Senate Armed Service Committee, who was contemplating coming forward. And so long story short, I ended up flying him in from D.C. to right here,

where we are now, where I'm sitting. and conducted an interview with him very last minute, last minute. You know, and then we were also waiting on additional information that was coming in about the Calvin 1990 Calvin UFO case, right? And we managed, thank you, David Clark, to get riot Richard Greaves, who was one of the workers in the kitchen with the alleged photographers. So our witness, that was amazing. It was the last thing that we squeezed in at the very last minute

that we were not anticipating happening, and it was just, in my opinion, it's one of the best moments in the whole movie. Yeah, so, I mean, we won't give away what you were able to uncover when it comes to the Calvin case and the primary witnesses and what happened with that.

We'll let people see that for themselves. But when you said that to me, I was pretty stunned. People have been looking for these guys forever. And again, like, we'll leave it up to the viewer to decide but yeah, if this is what is actually happening and what you've uncovered is real, we are one step closer to finding the witnesses, the original witnesses.

So I love, I have your names now. I don't think I'm going to reveal them publicly, but I have both their names. And I remember the quote that Richard Greaves gives that it's just like, I think I want to make a T-shirt. he goes, I made pooch digs. They made toast. You remember that? He's like, I work with them in the kitchen. I made poachs. They made toast. Trust me, man. That accent, I hear that accent every day and it never gets easier. But yeah, some awesome stuff on Calvin. But let's rewind a little bit. Now, it's called the program. So for those watching, listening, let's kind of summarize. what that is, why you chose to use that title. What kind of sets this apart from something like the phenomenon,

which was like this broad sweeping historical look at the entire topic of UFOs when it comes to government involvement, personal witnesses. And now fast forward to 2024. And now we're having UFO hearings and we're learning some pretty sensational and bold claims by people. So what is the program in your role? words. So I always like have to have a working title and the title usually comes to me in the edit room and I kept hearing intel folks talk about the program, oh, I knew about the program or

he was involved with the program or if I told you what I knew about the program and I was like, the program, hmm, I really like that. It's catchy. Of course, there are other things out there called the program as well. That's inevitably, you can't, you can't copyright a title, right? Right. And so, but there's other titles out there for out of the blue. I've seen other things out therefore I know what I saw, so be it. You know, it's a shared title. But the program came because of the fact that several people within the film kept referring to it as the program. And that's, I guess, the involvement with the UAP phenomenon.

Or, yeah, UFOs. So the program. You know, we had this most recent UFO hearing where Michael Schellenberger, a freelance journalist, came forward and said that he learned about something called Immaculate constellation. Could this be the program? Could other things be considered the program? We just don't know.

In the public, we know so little about what these Kladenstein programs could actually be. But for you, as the filmmaker, as you're interviewing these insiders, you had Christopher Mellon in the movie, Dr. Gary Nolan, who's actually studied possible remnants of these craft that I've said to have come from these programs. I mean, my head was spinning

with the people that you were interviewing in this thing. So in your opinion, Ken, does what Michael Schellenberger, what he brought forward with Immaculate Constellation, does what you uncovered lend any credence to what he's claiming before the halls of Congress?

So right before coming on, your show, just 10 minutes 10 minutes ago, I was in correspondence on Signal with an individual who appears in the film as NavyX. Navy X's has

set Navy X reached out to me right after I went and did that NASA stunt. I basically got into NASA that's a story in itself. We could say that for a later date, but got into NASA and it was all publicized it was broadcast live and after that you know that stunt i get a message from a

gentleman who's contemplating coming forward but wants to do it anonymously um we met we went on and did the interview and he this individual revealed that there is a database of high resolution 4k imagery of uap coming down from space coming in out of the oceans performing exhibiting a technology that's just light years advanced from anything that we that we have now or certainly you know didn't have 80 years ago you know the objects that don't have any wings or any tail uh don't make any noise no air disturbance have the ability to hover accelerate from a standstill out of the side the blink of an eye um trans medium go underwater come out right so it's atmosphere up in the atmosphere or up in space um and so he described and he gave as much details as he could as to where these can be

found for members of Congress, people that are looking for this type of data. And so when I heard about Immaculate Constellation, which, you know, it made kind of sense to me because I've heard from numerous Intel folks that stuff does exist. It's one of the things that I dress within the movie. So whether that has the name Immaculate Constellation or not, I don't know. Michael Schellenberger, I trust his instincts and his journalistic integrity. So, and I know that there are members of Congress that know who that individual is. They vetted him.

So it could very well be immaculate constellation. But again, I don't know. Yeah. But we do know there's a body of much better data, sensory data, overhead collection data, satellite imagery, things of that nature. That's one of the things that we really wanted to hammer home. Because you see, you know, people within the scientific community like Neil deGrasse Tyson, you know, mocking the lack of better.

data and it's frustrating for those who are talking to people on the inside that say yes it exists but it's classified and we can't release it right well okay so you talked about NASA um i remember watching the live stream of their uap study group press conference and then you know they asked for questions for the audience and then boom there's james fox one of the first up to ask a question you were able to film it get it in your documentary as well um and you had like like even the director of NASA at the time. Yeah. We're literally interacting with him.

It was great. What was that like? Yeah. It was fantastic. You know, it's funny, I got thrown off a little bit because I was trying to get, I was trying to get in. I had somebody put me on the, on the press list,

but I wasn't really press. And I had this old press badge that I used when I was filming, pretty slick, that documentary on the BP oil spill back in 2010. And I looked like so much younger. This little baby case, it's totally expired. But I was like, you know, at a distance, if it's just, you know, attached to your hip, you just kind of glance at it.

Okay, maybe that's going to be cool kind of thing. But there's this guy who looked like he worked with NASA, but he was armed. He had a gun. And he was quite aggressively, like, trying to screen me. And I was trying to get all the gear. It was all very chaotic. It was going to start. And I had tripods, camera gear.

and trying to get through security and the metal detectors and I'm having to strip my body and take things out of my pockets. But this guy was like, I remember thinking, this guy's like my damn shadow. Like every time I move,

he's right there. Like, asking me questions, but who are you with? Like, what organization he went? And I was thinking to myself, this guy just doesn't want me in there for some reason.

He just, I don't know. And then finally the woman who had the roster, she's like, Mr. Fox is on the list. He's on the list. Brian Bender, formerly with Politico,

had made, some phone calls and pulled some strings and got me in there. Thank you, Brian Bender. And so reluctantly, but I could see that guy when I was on stage kind of looking at me. And I'm, you know, I'm going after Bill Nelson, the head of NASA, right? It's like, you know, hey, how can you say what something isn't when you don't know what it is, you know? And then what's the plan? What's the plan for telling the public. Is there one? Because you can't be studying the unidentified anomalous phenomena. You can't be studying UFOs, right, in an official capacity and not pre-prepreparing if it leads to some of these are, you know, originate from non-human intelligence that, prepare to how to tell the public. Who does that? Who does that?

Whose job is that? And they don't have a plan. They clearly don't have a plan. But it's kind of funny. He's like, you bet your boots, you remember? You bet your boots? I'm seeing some teetsters coming of this movie. I'm thinking poached eggs and toast. You bet your boots. I don't know. It's having bum with it, you know. Absolutely, man. You have to. You have to in this topic. Even when, you know, the content itself and the implication is very serious, like if we're, if we can't laugh at the ridiculous nature, sometimes of the phenomena itself and the culture that sprung up around it, people like us, even, if you can't laugh at yourself, what the hell is the point in my opinion? I couldn't. I could not agree more. I actually shared a funny story yesterday on one of the podcasts because I was in my late

20s and I just landed in an interview with Edgar Mitchell. Apollo 14, six man to walk on the moon. And it was a huge moment in my career. You could imagine, right? Here I am sitting down with a guy who walked on the moon at his home in Florida. And it was funny. It was two things very memorable. One was I said to him, and I had written countless letters, letters, because I did, I don't think we had email. Maybe we just started having email. But any case, I, for years, I was trying to get interviews with him. My God, I couldn't believe it.

I just got denied, denied, denied, denied, denied. And then finally he met with me. And I said to him while we were shooting some B-roll walking out in the past year, I said, Dr. Mitchell, you know what ultimately caused you to decide to finally meet with me? I was expecting some profound, you know, answer. He was impressed with this or that. And he goes, well, you know, James, I realize you just weren't going away. But then we go, we sit down, and he's like, he said, well, James, what would you like me to wear?

And before I had a chance to filter what came out of my mouth, I said, how about a pink nighty? And I was like, oh, my God, I can't believe I just said that. He was over. And then he just roared with laughter and he fell and I thought, thank God this guy. That's humor, you know? because I just put in my mouth of big 90. I always see. That's pretty good, man.

Yeah, add to the credibility factor. He had a great sense of humor about it. I've got to answer to the guy. I love it. Yeah. So, you know, yeah, we can laugh about it. I'm sure you've got some great stories of behind the scenes of filming some of these interviews. But you have some interviews that are exclusive.

people who've never been filmed, been on camera before talking about this topic. You mentioned one of them earlier, someone from the Armed Services Committee. Never got on camera before. Right, right. So tell us a little about some of the people in the movie who we should really be paying attention to. Well, I would say Len Val Logan. He was part of the task force. I think it was when it was the task force.

I don't think it was part of Arrow. I think it was Jay Stratton and the UAP Task Force Post. Post 8 tip. But don't quote me on that, but he was definitely part of the task force with Jay Stratton. He'd never come forward before as far as, yeah, no, he's definitely never been on camera before. Kirk McConnell. And he, you know, look, he says, I'll do the best I can and say as much as I can without violating my security oath. You know, I have to be very careful.

And in fact, I had to take the segments they appear in and they had to be approved. Right. So he had to have it approved, as did, you know, Jason Sands and, you know, Kirk McConnell, he was very careful on what he said on camera. He said as much as he could say without fear of retribution. Kirk McConnell, Senate Armed Service Committee, he started in 2017 sticking his teeth into it. He had high-level clearances. And, you know, and he talks about in the film, that's why I can say it, he has sat down along with members of the Senate. it with first handers.

I think it was like, I don't know, 10, maybe 8, 10 to 12. I don't have an exact number, but somewhere around there, first handers. And he says so in the film. These people have high level clearances, credible, you know,

either active, both active and retired. That's kind of a big deal. I mean, he's putting a huge deal. Well, yeah. Jason's a man. I know he's carc, a lot of people. I knew that there are going to be certain people within the community.

They're going to criticize me for including Jason Sands. But I did a lot of stuff, a lot of digging behind the scenes. I did as best I could, you know, to verify his credentials to prove that he is who he says he was. And he was where he says he was, right? I even got his ex-wife. And I actually kept saying, look, I need photographs of you in the military. And I kept not getting them. And I finally said, what's going on here?

And he goes, oh, there, my ex, kind of my ex, kind of my ex. and she's got them in there in boxes up in the attic and she's going to have to go dig it. Ah, I said, well, tell her $200 per scanned image. And I had him six hours later. So money talks, baby. Money talks, you know, and I had to have them. You got to have them. Yeah.

I met with people on the inside, current, that vouched for him and said, look, you know, probably suffering from PTSD, but he is who he says he is. He was where he says he was. We vetted him thoroughly. And he's even mentioned names. of classified programs that he knew. So don't throw, I just, you know, so I stuck by his side and he's willing to take a lie detector test publicly and he's willing to testify under oath provided he's given immunity

to verify, to give the details necessary to verify his claims. So there we have it. So, okay, one of the biggest, I think, issues or things we run up against when it comes to the program per se is. you have people testifying before Krongers, Elizondo, the claims by a whistleblower to Schellenberger, the individuals you've spoken to. And it seems like, James, every time it comes back to, well, who are these people, where's the location where the craft are being hidden or stored or worked on? What are the locations of these programs and whatnot? It's always, I could talk about that in a skiff.

a classified setting. So that seems to be like the big roadblock right now is like this idea of this mythological skiff that everyone talks about. And people like George Knapp have claimed I've been in a skiff. Like I've literally been in a skiff with these people. Why can't members of Congress get in there and do it to further their investigation into the claims being brought to them? So like what do you make of this whole like, I don't want to say it's like a, a, way out of it, like saying, oh, I could talk about that in a skiff, and then they can never actually get in the skiff to talk to these people. I don't think the skiff's going to solve it because, look, let's say you get Thomas Monheim, the current ICIG, intelligence community inspector general

into a skiff, and he reveals the street addresses. Now, it's still classified. So what are the members going to target is maybe possibly leak it out? Then you don't have provenance. I think what needs to happen is that the first handers need to be provided whistleblower, protections, real protections where they feel secure and safe and immunity to disclose in a public setting, just like we did with David Grush, but allowing them to relinquish all the information, street addresses, who has it, which agencies, which, you know, subcontractors and that nature. In my opinion, that's what needs to happen. Okay.

So executive branch, I would have, because I've asked that. And I've also asked, like, where are they hiding this so-called unacknowledged special access program? Right. And the best I can get, well, well, if it does exist, it's probably under the DOE, Department of Energy, because that's the least amount of oversight. Yeah. So that's where it would be. Right. But look, it's frustrating. People feel like things aren't happening fast enough. But I have to remind people, just look at where we've come since 2017. Right. We've got we've got a couple people, Intel folks, testify under oath publicly that there's a crash retrieval program. Let's not forget that. I don't think you can overstate the significance of that. Testified under oath, okay, that it exists. So there are consequences for lying to Congress, particularly under oath. I mean, potential prison time.

So we should take that allegation very seriously, and we should keep the pressure on, keep supporting our elected officials, both parties, and while they keep digging. And, you know, try to get, you know, love the Trump administration or, or don't like to Trump administration, I think that they're more likely to possibly wave the magic wand and provide some level of immunity to these first-hand witnesses, which, in my opinion, needs to happen. So this really lay, like you said, in the executive branch and policy making.

You know, you stress in the film this, what do you call it, the Disclosure Act that's been trying to get past and whatnot through the efforts of people like Schumer and whatnot. Right. On the Senate, pass in the Senate, failed. Yeah. Right.

So basically what you're saying is, like, it has to come to a law that's going to protect these people in order for them to come forward. Yeah. So I'm sorry, I got sidetracked earlier on. I was going to mention there's an individual who appears in the film under, it's Navy X. And this individual is putting together a statement.

We were going over it just 15, 20 minutes ago. anonymously on um it's it's a very compelling statement and it's going to be released on my ex account on the day of the film release on the 16th of december basically explaining you know why this individual uh is doing what he's doing why uh he's fearful for his safety uh where some of this material is what he is what this individual has seen um and basically why he's why he's coming forward anonymously It's very compelling. It's several paragraphs, and it's, it really explains a lot of things within the fear factor

is real. The consequences for violating their security oaths, I guess, is real. And yeah, so it explains a lot of it. And it's frustrating. It's frustrating for filmmakers myself. It's frustrating for the general public. When you hear all these people telling me, you're like, I'd go to jail if I told you what I know. excuse me it's like hey why can't we have a blanket protection somehow and really because if what

these people are saying is true this is the biggest story of the millennium i mean ever really right so it merits further investigation and it merits the efforts of our elected officials to try to provide immunity for these whistleblowers yeah yeah we'll see what happens um it's it's in an interesting time especially when you have like these people testifying before the the House and then, you know, Arrow testifying before the Senate, and they're kind of going up against one another in terms of who knows what, what can be proven, what can't be proven. So what do you think of Arrow and what the Liberians doing? Very interesting. I'm glad you brought that up because I think about how much background

I gave you on this, but basically I had an opportunity right after I attended, the first congressional hearings I got to attend after 30 years waiting for that. And a lot of people were like, oh, it was a big nothing burger. Well, you know, it was pretty exciting nonetheless. I was pretty happy to be there. Pretty happy to see people testify under oath. Pretty happy to see the rear admiral, Tim Galadette, and, you know, Lou testify under oath about the existence of a crash retrieval program.

Pretty big deal. But the next day, Kirk McConnell had arranged a meeting with me in a skiff with the new head of Arrow. And there was another gentleman, Air Force Office of Special Investigations, Kevin Ryan, I think his last name was. I don't look into that. But in any case, John Kosklaowski is the new head of Arrow. And I got in there and I was thinking to myself like, this is crazy. I'm in a skiff with the head of Arrow.

Hello, this is Ryan Sprague, the host of Summer in the Skies. If you're enjoying our podcast, our live streams and our videos, and you'd like to support the show, there are several ways to help while unlocking exclusive perks. Join our Patreon community for early access to episodes, priority guest questions, exclusive articles, bonus content, and access to a growing community of fellow UFO enthusiasts. You can also subscribe to someone in the sky's premium on Apple Podcasts for ad-free listening, early access, and exclusive premium content. If you're watching on YouTube, consider becoming a channel member to unlock bonus content, members-only posts, batches, and badges, and and so much more. No matter how you choose to support somewhere in the skies, your contribution directly helps fund our research, our production, travel, interviews, and the continued growth

of everything we do here. So to learn more, check the links in the show notes or the video description. And real talk here, guys, thank you for listening and supporting us for almost 10 years. And thank you for supporting independent content. And I hope you'll continue to join me. somewhere in the skies. At Desjardin Insurance, we know that when you own a nail salon, everything needs to be perfect from tip to toe. That's why our agents go the extra mile to understand your business and provide tailored solutions for all its unique needs.

You put your heart into your company, so we put our heart into making sure it's protected. Get insurance that's really big on care. Find an agent today at Dejardin.com slash business coverage. The first ever all-electric 2026 Subaru Trail Seeker is the EV for the trail obsessed with up to 444 kilometers on a full charge and DC fast charging from 10 to 80% in about 30 minutes in ideal conditions. Plus, ample ground clearance and symmetrical all-wheel drive

make the 2026 Trail Seeker the most capable EV Subaru has ever built. Test drive it at your local Subaru dealer or visit Subaru.ca. Going on vacation? We're here for it. With kids who turned the backseat into a courtroom drama over whose tablet is louder, whose charger is faster, and while watching the same cartoon for the hundredth time is the human right? Yep, we totally have vehicles to handle that,

because whether it's a road trip or a business trip, where your flight's delayed, your phone's at 2% and your dinner is, whatever is open? Yeah, here for that too. Enterprise, we're here for it. Hear that? It's your money calling. It wants a promotion. Elevate your savings with the Scotia high-interest savings account.

Always earn high regular interest rates that grow the more you save and invest. Conditions apply. Visit Scotia Bank.com slash h-I-SA to learn more. Scotia Bank. You're richer than you think. Hey, y'all, it's Kelly Clarkson with Wayfair. Ever order furniture online and wonder what if? Like, what if it doesn't hold up? That sofa was four days old. You should have ordered from my way. Wayfair. With Wayfair, there's no what if. Just style you love and quality you can trust. Visit Wayfair.ca. Wayfair, every style, every home.

And so I said, hey, you guys, guys got to throw us a bone here. You know, we're not going away. And sure, the vast majority of these cites can be explained away in conventional terms. But, you know, there's a residual 10, 15, 20% that clearly defies a conventional explanation. and we're probably dealing with non-human intelligence. And nobody scoffed or denied or anything like that. He looked at me and he goes, James, I can't part my own hair without approval from the DOD. And you can quote me on that.

And I thought to myself, I thought about that for a while. So basically what he's saying is Congress puts him in charge of digging through the various intelligence agencies and finding out what they know. and yet the DOD, which is part of the executive branch, tells him what he can and cannot say. So that doesn't seem like a very, really? Why is that? Why is that structured that way? But that's what he said.

It's interesting because you had at the Senate hearing, you had Susan Goff, the Pentagon spokesperson, next to the head of arrow, like eyeing him the whole time, the freaking lasers in the back of his head. And then at the House hearing, you had members of Congress like Jared Moskowitz saying, we were told today not to ask you specific questions. So it's like, who's pulling the strings above everyone here?

I got to say something really cool that I was just blown away by. And this was told to me by the Air Force Office of Special Investigations, Kevin. And he goes, you can't work for Arrow. It's a prerequisite to watch the phenomenon. on before you come work for Arrow. And then he goes, God, that case at the end in Africa, I said, you mean the landing case? Wow. What?

It's like the training manual for Arrow now, man. This is amazing. This is amazing. Yeah. It was pretty cool. So just to clarify, did you go into the Skiff? I did. I did.

I went into the skiff. Yes. just like in the movies. Yeah. It was crazy. Yeah. And I had to like do a 48 hour background check. Then I had to go through all this like security metal detector.

Then I went through this like glass, like this glass tube thing, almost like in a Star Trek movie where the door opens on one side. And you walk in and it opens on the other side. You walk through. And then I had to get rid of all anything electronic, leave it out on a on top of a little locker. Can't open this door with buttons and everything on it. Oh yeah. No camera.

There's no cell phone, nothing, man. Boom, I'm inside. And their whole operations for error are inside a SCIF. And I was, so I walked down this hallway. Sorry, my camera's moving. I hate that. I need to turn that feature off. But I'm walking down this hallway.

I'm walking on this hallway with the guy from Air Force Office Special Investigations, AFOSI. And he stops to him, you know, wait here, and he's doing something. And to my left, there's a door open and there's a, a table with like maybe five people sitting at the table talking and I just couldn't help myself. I just kind of turned over and I started tuning in to what they're saying.

They're all sitting down at this table. And then somebody gets off and they walk over and close the door on my face. Oh, man. I couldn't help myself. He's like, here, you went here. I was in there. I look over.

I was just, you know, tuning into what's being said. And, yeah, it was pretty funny. And then I went to do another room with the two of them for, for like 15, 20 minutes, maybe 45 minutes with, the head of arrow hung out for 15, 20 minutes, and he had to go. And then I hung out with the other guy at the Air Force Office Special Investigations. Interesting.

Oh, that's asking about Man in Black. Who are they? What agency are they from? Are you looking into it? You need to look into this case, that case. Like, here's what? I think you could find some in. Yeah, it was pretty cool.

Please tell me you asked about Doty. I did not. Sorry. It's all right. Next time. Next time. Yeah. But I do have, I do have their, I have one of their numbers.

I text with them. Wow. You know, but I told them, I said, you got to throw us a bone. We're not going anywhere. Yeah. This is not going to go away. It's not going away. Yeah.

Absolutely. Well, in C, that's the frustration right there. You were in a skis. why can't these members of Congress get in there to interview these people? It just, this conundrum just, it baffles me. I don't get it. Look, they didn't reveal anything classified. And the fact that I met in a skip, I mean, I don't know, could they have shared classified?

I don't know if they could have or not. I mean, I did a lot of the talking and, you know, but when I started talking about NHI and I clearly was like, you know this is where this is going, right? You know that, right? You know, and that's what he just said. I can't part my hair without the DOD approving it. Yeah. See, and that makes me think they wanted to,

they wanted information from you, not the other way around. They're gathering intel from the people who are, you know, investigating these things, making films about them. I told them stuff, and there's one particular bit of evidence

that I've been digging up. Look, people are getting frustrated because they're, you know, the Varsenia case, we talked about photographic evidence. I've been going after that for a couple of years now. I don't give up.

Like, I've been going after quietly, and again, I have to say thank you to David Clark on the Calvin UFO photograph. I mean, it's been like quietly in and out for 20 years. I've been kind of making inquiries about that, you know, pasturing Nick Pope about it. Great interview he gave, by the way, on that case, isn't it? That was interesting. Yeah. How you sort of framed the whole experience in real time.

I waited 20 years for that moment, you know, and going to the spot. So I'm also been trying to track down footage of a launch at Vanderburg Air Force Base. I've been on it for about 10 years now, maybe 12 years. And I know the individual that has it. And so I've been working that angle for a while and talking with, it was basically a launch. I think it was in September of 1964 Vanderburg Air Force Base, Quite similar to what Robert Jacobs talks about with that object. It circles the tip of the Atlas rocket and shoots beams, the lights at it.

This particular footage that I'm going after has, I think, two or three objects circling the tip of an Atlas rocket traveling in roughly 8,000, 9,000 miles an hour, taken in 1964, but it doesn't shoot beams according to the people that have seen it, and the individual who has it. It doesn't shoot beams of light, but it does circle, and it's two different camera angles, one close and one further away, showing exactly the same thing. So they've totally eliminated any possibility of lens flare or things of that nature. But it's pretty impressive stuff.

And they kind of want my help to go after it. And I did say to them, if I help you get it, it can't disappear. Like, I'm going to get a copy and you'll get a copy. So, oh, yeah, yeah, okay. So we're working together in tandem on it. Interesting. Well, okay. Yeah, we'll see.

And they lie about it. I'm going to call them out. Yeah. And I told them that. Like, you're not going to make this go down a black hole because I can give you a thousand cases right here right now about how this stuff has an uncanny ability to vanish. Well, on that, I do want to, I know we got to wrap things up shortly. Ten minutes and I've got to walk my dog and then I've got to go to my dad bod class. With a middle-aged dudes and older, get together and work out and make fun of each other and bump iron.

And it's really fun. It's good for my mental state to help. So I don't need it. You're going to need it for the next few weeks, my friend. That's for sure. Black hole video, I have to ask you this. When we were in the car, you played a voicemail for me. I won't name the individual, but people will know who it is about a certain video.

Will we ever see that video from, okay, well, everyone knows at this point. Is Logan Paul ever going to drop this best video? ever on us. What's going on? I had another guy come to my house. He probably wouldn't want me to mention his name, and I can't remember his name off the bat.

Right here. It came to this table right there. About a year ago, something like that, maybe less. And he has the video. And so he showed it to me. I said, well, could I take a video up? Uh-uh.

And it was very degraded. And it was edited. It seemed like somebody had edited. It wasn't a, it was kind of chopped up and degraded. I mean, it definitely showed the disc, you know, doing the wobble that I remember crystal clear and the paranoia for them inside the car and the light over the top of the car, all that. But it was kind of edited and chopped up and it was really degraded.

And I was like, ah, this is, and he said that he was going to, he had contacted Chuck Clark and he was going to have it enhanced with the, with the latest software to get rid of all the dropout for, preservation purposes. And then I said, okay, well, do you think it'll get released at that point? He goes, well, first, my first step is to get it enhanced, and then we'll see what happens. So I haven't forgotten about it. I'm still going to try. I won't ever give up on it. It's at one point or another, I'm sure Chuck Clark. Oh, and one more thing I'll say about it is that I went, I was on a tour at a conference, actually with, um, uh, fade to black.

Oh, Jimmy Church. Yeah, Jimmy Church. And we were on a conference. We took buses from Las Vegas out to Area 51 as part of the tour. And we got to Little Ely Inn and we hung out there for three hours. We had food and drinks and whatever. And I met the again, and I've known her for decades, the daughter of the woman who owned it. I think it was Pat. Joe and Pat used to own it. Pat's still around Joe passed. And Pat's daughter, I talked to her about that footage because Chuck Clark lived like a couple hundred yards away from the little alien. in a double wide for probably 20 years. Of course, he had that footage and everybody knew about it.

Everyone's seen it. And so I said to her, like, why is this so much secrecy around who shot it? Like, what's the big deal? Why don't they come forward? And we talked, and she was very kind of, she remembered me and knew who I was, but she was kind of standing off. And then she looked at me and she goes, do you really think we're that stupid that we're not going to make a digital copy of it?

She thought, there's reasons why that individual didn't come forward. No, she's, yeah, there was reasons why and you wouldn't tell me. And I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. But I won't, I haven't given up on it. I haven't given up on going after any footage. Sometimes it's a while. I don't know. Yeah. Welcome to Euphology as a welcome to you. I mean, look how long it took for the Calvin UFO photograph to service. Oh my gosh, man. 34 years, 33 years. And completely by happenstance. Like it was in his desk the whole time. Yeah. God. It's crazy. How these things. work. Oh, well, let's talk briefly. You had

Gary McKinnon in the movie. I know you were, I think you were with him the day before you met up with me, right? Yeah, probably. Yeah. Wasn't that great? That was so cool to hear from him again so many years later and And the talk about he was going to take his own life before you go rot in a foreign prison.

Yeah. That's intense. Yeah. So what do you make of his claims in the broader picture of the program? Well, it certainly, it's certainly aligns with the research that we've done and the Intel officers telling us about so-called immaculate constellation, right? If there's some sort of program

that has all this high resolution 4K data, right? Satellite collection data, all the sensory data. It's got to be somewhere. We've talked to numerous people that have seen it, you know, most of whom are willing to take a lie detector test and it does exist.

So why not? Gary McKinn, his claims, he's never changed his claims, he saw, You saw one image that was very impressive of an object that didn't, that looked like it was not of this earth. And then also the officers, the non-terrestrial officers, what the hell is that? That's weird. What are those guys? Are those like astronauts?

Right. Because non-terrestrial officers, or are they something else? Yeah. You know, I remember thinking, you know, look, one of the things, the place where I'm at now after 30 years is I've, I finally got into a place where I go, James, I know this sounds crazy. You hear about different aspects of the phenomenon that you just had this knee-jerk reaction and go, that's impossible. There's no way in hell that happened.

I've gone beyond that. Now I have to say, James, take a moment, suspend judgment, and at least consider this maybe a possibility. Maybe this did happen and dig a little further. Don't just reject it. So that's where I'm at right now. I started thinking about Jason Sands' encounter in the desert. Yeah, that's pretty, again, if true, like that's a pretty nuts out. He's willing to take a public lie detector test.

He has the names of the other officers that were on duty that day. We have a date. We have a location. We have names. Let's dig into it. Prove or disprove that. Let's let the world know about it. And let's dig deeper on that one.

Because if that really happened, wow. It's, yeah. It's one for the ages, for sure. Yeah, I was like, man. It was incredible. I'm going to look at James. I've got just a couple questions from Twitter here really quick. I'll just pick one.

I'll pick the greatest hit here. My favorite color is dark blue. Next question. I'm kidding. Hainous X says, what's up, James Fox? Let me see here.

Oh, here's a good one. Brian Jacobi asked, what is the biggest frustration about going through the conventional route, aka Congress politicians? What can us normal people do to push the topic forward?

What as normal people can do, myself included on that, is to support our elected officials. bipartisan effort to push for more transparency. They need to hear from us that we want answers, and they have our support. I can't overstate how significant that is. Okay, cool.

Let me see here. We talked about, oh, you posted on X today. You were looking for the J. Edgar Hoover. What's going on with that? A friend of mine was asking me about it, And I was like, oh, yeah, I know where that is and did a little quick search. It's like, why can I find this? And then I remember thinking, you know what?

That's a pretty significant document. We're talking about crash retrieval stuff. The former head of the FBI in his own handwriting, right? Because I featured this document in out of the blue decades ago, says, okay, perfect. Thank you. This is excellent. So look, if we could just figure out what that it's some people say L.A. Or is it SW?

What is that? Because if that's SW, it could be the Southwest, which would mean could be Roswell. Because he talks about it. Look at the date. It's July 15th. That's just a week or so after the army would have grabbed it. Right. Right.

Because that's when Roswell happened. So this, in my opinion, because it's not typed, it's in his own handwriting. It's an official document from Jay Edgar Hoover. And I know it's old, obviously. And I know it's been reported on, obviously. But let's do some analysis and find out what that says. Because if it's LA, then I'm just stumped. But if it's SW, it could be Southwest, which would mean Roswell.

Which is pretty significant. Like, let's not just throw this out because it's old and it has been reported on the past. As far as I'm concerned, it's never really, we haven't gotten to the bottom of it. Yeah. It's interesting. Yeah, yeah. I was grabbed it and wouldn't let us have it for cursory examination. We must insist upon full access to discs recovered.

This is a week or so after Roswell, 1947. Like, come on, man. If this isn't a smoking and gun document, if we can just figure out somebody needs to do some analysis work on that and find out what, because he says, for instance, in the something case, the army grabbed it wouldn't let us have for cursory examination, one week or so after Roswell, 10 days after Roswell, whatever that is.

Like, wow, right? Yeah, it's crazy. And it could be no more appropriate than for your new film coming out. It's super relevant right now. I mean, it's a relevant document. I know it's old and I know it's been reported on, but nobody's really got in the bottom of it.

What case is he talking about? If that's the Southwest, then that's bingo, right? Yep, exactly. So, anyway, yeah. I'd like to see, just bringing it to people's attention. I think it's relevant, very relevant. It would be crash retrieval, confirmation in the former head of FBI's own handwriting, right? It's better than typing.

It's in his handwriting. It could be analyzed. We should figure out what that is. I want to know your thoughts. What's going on in New Jersey, man? Like between the UK and New Jersey. I know. It's war of the worlds.

What's happening? I wish I had definitive answers and I don't. I have a friend of mine who lives in New Jersey, called me yesterday, Alessi, and he goes, he actually was with me in Virginia, Brazil, a couple of years ago, filming for a moment of contact. And he calls me up and I totally trust this guy. And he goes, hey, I live here.

They're flying over my house. I said, well, tell me, what are you seeing? He goes, they're the size of an SUV and they make noise, but they're hovering and they're this and then that. I go, they're making noise. Yeah, they're making noise, but their loiter time is hours as opposed to minutes. Now, I fly pretty advanced drones. I mean, relatively within the, you know, I mean, I fly, you know, for my movies, right?

But I'm lucky to get 20 minutes flight time, maybe 25 of them, I'm really lucky under the right conditions. These things are up for hours. And in some instances, I've heard relatively credible reports of F-16s over more sensitive airspace like military bases, you know, going after them and then just out maneuvering an F-16. Is that really true? Because that's true. You're talking about potentially

conventional propulsion, but highly advanced. So I don't know. I don't know what to think. It's really crazy. And the silence from the executive branch is deafening, really. I mean, they're saying don't worry, you have nothing to fear? Really? But you don't know what they are? That doesn't

make sense either. The Pentagon literally. Nothing to see here, folks. Nothing to see here, folks. They said, they, That it's not U.S. tech and that it's, what did they say? Not U.S. tech and it's not Iran because one of the New Jersey reps said that he heard that it was Iranian technology and they were able to deny that. But then they also said this is not U.S. tech either.

They're giving horrible explanations. They're making matters worse. Yes. Just say that. Because why don't you just follow one of them back wherever it goes? follow it. Yeah. Like it makes me think they know.

It really makes me think they know. And they should say we know what they are. Don't worry about it. It's okay. But they don't say that either. Yeah. So I'm highly dubious. You know, come on.

I know, man. Anyways, like, yeah, sorry, go ahead. No, I don't want to end with a drone question. So I guess my big question for you is, what happens next? The film is coming out December. September 16th.

What is the biggest thing people should pay attention to with the film? And where is this all heading as we go into 2025 with the UFO issue? Well, I think it's really important to keep the pressure on. I think we really are living in unprecedented

times right now. It's happening as a culmination, right? And it's got the attention of Congress starting to get the attention of the American public. In fact, globally. Remember, the implications are for all of humanity, not just the United States, right? This is far-reaching global implications, and it potentially could be the biggest story in modern history.

And I think we need to keep the pressure on, keep supporting the congressional effort to hold the intel communities feet to the fire, keep demanding answers, and don't let up. Now is not the time to let up. I want to say that this is the most independent production I've ever done. Start to finish. We have no distributor. We're doing this entirely on our own. I had to borrow a quarter of a million dollars just to pay to get it released. It's a long story, but there's a lot of, unforeseen.

There's just a lot of expenditures, PR companies, you know, running ad space. I'm doing basically exactly what my distributor used to do. Like when I put out the phenomenon, everything's the same. The people that acquire the film aren't going to see anything different. It's just that we're all paying out of pocket. pocket. We have no distribution company. We have an aggregator who posted up on the film hub, but that's it. We do everything. So it's the first time in the history of all my films that has been that independent. The film's coming out on Amazon, iTunes, Apple, Vimeo. It's going to be

expensive for the first two weeks. It's purchase only. Yeah, I know. So it's going to be $20. And if you can't afford the $20, I totally get it. Sit tight. And we will make it available for rent at the end of this month. We're trying to recoup. We're about a million dollars in debt right now. People wanted me to set up a go fund me. I refuse to do that unless I'm in a foreign prison somewhere. And I do not have the ability to get myself out.

Then you can set up a go fund me. I'm not accepting free money. But if you guys want to fund me and you want to help, buy it in the next two weeks. And if not, wait until it's available to rent. And I do appreciate all of your support. I really mean that. Yeah. Yeah.

And if you want to see me, my sweaty ass, hiking up. the hill with James Fox, who's in way better shape than I'll ever be. Yeah, you can see me for like half a second there. But hey, I'm not already. On the tree, too, you know. Yes, yes. That was me in a number of times. That was me and one of your camera guys. So I, I can say that I was in a reenactor of one of the Calvin UFO witnesses. You know what? You're going to get an Academy Award for that. That was, your acting was phenomenal. What you stood there under the tree. knelt down. That's an Academy Award right there. I'd like to thank my mom, all of my supporters throughout for this award. No, I'm kidding. Dude, it was such a pleasure doing that with you.

Like, it's a memory I will hold dear forever. Keep me posted on your documentary on the Shag Harbor and let me know how I can help out. Absolutely. I will. And thank you. I know you got to get going, James, but I can't wait for it to come out. Like you said, we'll have links to everything in the show notes for where you guys can find the film. And good luck. with the release, my friend. Thanks so much. Thanks for joining this. Bye, everybody.

At Desjardin Insurance, we know that when you own a nail salon, everything needs to be perfect from tip to toe. That's why our agents go the extra mile to understand your business and provide tailored solutions for all its unique needs. You put your heart into your company,

so we put our heart into making sure it's protected. Get insurance that's really big on care. Find an agent today at Dejardden.com. com slash business coverage.