Somewhere in the Skies - Jim Perry: EUPHOMET OBSCURA

Episode Date: February 11, 2019

On episode 95 of SOMEWHERE IN THE SKIES, Jim Perry returns to introduce us to EUPHOMET OBSCURA which deepens Perry's exploration into the unknown. The new weekly series will feature poignant, unreleased documentary tape from Euphomet Season One as well as Perry’s travelogue, detailing unheard stories of paranormal experiences encountered while in the field producing the show. What was it like to visit Mothman's possible lair? How did Perry feel about jumping off a cliff into a vortex? Did he communicate with a Sasquatch? And what was it like dining with a real-life vampire? This and so much more on this deeply personal and powerful episode. Euphomet on Twitter: @Euphomet Jim Perry on Twitter: @ItsJimPerry Jim Perry on Facebook: CLICK HERE Watch ROSWELL: MYSTERIES DECODED for free! Available to stream by CLICKING HERE Patreon: www.patreon.com/somewhereskies Website: www.somewhereintheskies.com YouTube Channel: CLICK HERE Official Store: CLICK HERE Order Ryan's Book by CLICKING HERE Twitter: @SomewhereSkies Instagram: @SomewhereSkiesPod Opening and Closing Theme Song, "Ephemeral Reign" by Per Kiilstofte SOMEWHERE IN THE SKIES is part of the eOne podcast network. To learn more, CLICK HERE SOMEWHERE IN THE SKIES is sponsored by HelloFresh. To receive 50% off your first order, use promo code: SOMEWHERE50 at checkout by visiting www.HelloFresh.ca Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/somewhere-in-the-skies. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This episode is brought to you by Netflix. Most valuable promotions in Netflix are hosting a blockbuster triple headliner Saturday, May 16th. Rhonda Rousey returns to face fellow woman's MMA pioneer Gina Carano in the main event. Plus co-main's Nate Diaz versus Mike Perry. And the best heavyweight in the world, Frances Ngano versus Felipe Lenz. Watch Rhonda Rousey versus Gina Carrano, live only on Netflix. Saturday, May 16th at 9 p.m. Eastern Center Time, 6 p.m. Pacific Time. Hey y'all, Ryan Spreck here.

As you all know, the Somewhere in the Sky's podcast is always free to consume, but it isn't free to create. That's why I've started the Somewhere in the Sky's Patreon campaign. On a monthly basis, you give what you think the show is worth. You'll be helping the show continue, grow, and to be something truly communal. And remember, there are rewards for each level of contribution, and the list is only growing. So please, help Summer in the Sky's Now

by becoming a patron. To contribute and to learn more, visit www.com backslash somewhere skies. Thank you for your support. And now on with the show. This is Somewhere in the Skies with Ryan Sprague. Welcome to Somewhere in the Skies. I'm your host Ryan Sprague. Before we go any further, I am coming to you from an empty cavernous apartment in what is going to be the last episode of Somewhere in the Skies recorded in Los Angeles. California. I have made this city my home for the past year and a half. But now, it's time to head back east to a place that both centers me and spins me completely off my axis. And that is New York City. Los Angeles has afforded me opportunities I never expected, and I met some of the nicest, most interesting people I've ever come across in my travels. I saw some of the most beautiful things I've ever seen, and some of the ugliest. It's a superest. It's a superest. It's a super.

spectrum of wealth and prosperity and a place of poverty and struggle. So I leave here hoping for a better tomorrow for the city of angels. And I thank you for all you expose me to and let me glimpse of what you had to offer. And with this being the last show recorded on the West Coast, I could think of no better guest than Jim Perry, host of the acclaimed podcast, Euphamette. Euphamette, the critically acclaimed audio documentary podcast series featuring True Paranormal Radio Diaries has recently added a new complimentary show

to its feet with the launch of Euphemate Obscira. The new weekly series will feature poignant, unreleased documentary tape from Euphamette Season 1, as well as host Jim Perry's travel log detailing unheard stories of paranormal experiences encountered

while in the field producing the show. Today, we talk about of those experiences and what to expect from you've met obscure. But we also get much, much deeper than I'd anticipated. And once again, Jim Perry leaves me both speechless in many ways and ready to dive into the unknown like I never had before. This interview shook me, literally shook me to the core. It's deeply personal and unlike any episodes of Summer in the Skies that you've heard before.

So, I hope you enjoy my talk with Jim. Perry, thank you to all of you for sticking with me and the show out here in Los Angeles. And I'll see you on the other side. That first episode just knocked my socks off. Oh, I'm glad you liked it. I was at Starbucks and I'm like, oh, this is so good. Oh, thank you. Thank you.

I'm glad you liked it. I haven't checked in with what people are saying or like any response yet. So you're actually, you're probably the first response I've ever had on that episode. Yes. Yeah, it's a little different. I'll, of course, detail that a little bit on the episode, but it's very interesting. And I listened to our last conversation together last night. And wow, I was stunned to hear how clearly I could envision myself in that place where we were speaking, where I was at in my life, where I was at with this project.

And I was visibly rattled in a way that I could. that I could tell, I'm sure others couldn't. I felt into it last night, and it gave me anxiety a little bit. I was like, oh, my God, I don't know what the future holds at this point when I'm putting over this project. I'm talking to Ryan excitedly about it. I can't hold together sort of my stream of thought and consciousness is all over the place. And so it's very interesting looking back at it, especially now with launching this new project, looking back at that at that moment.

And I thank you for that because you gave me the opportunity to talk about that project before anyone else as well. So again, here we are the first of this new project and you're giving me the opportunity to talk about this before anyone else as well. So that's extremely refreshing to hear. And, you know, if you don't mind, man, I'd love to, with that in mind as sort of the impetus for this, I'd love to just dive in. Is that cool? Yeah, absolutely. Awesome. Awesome. So I have here with me today, Jim Perry, the host of Euphamette and a new endeavor,

Euphamette Obscura. And the reason I wanted to have you on today, man, is because I was making my way through my weekly podcast episodes this week. And I noticed a new episode pop up on the euphomet feed. And it wasn't exactly Euphomet. And I literally was like, what, wait, what's happening? What's going on here? It was something completely different and I was a little confused at first, but I was extremely excited to see this new thing, Obscura. So before we even get into what you're going to be covering and everything, could you maybe tell us a little bit about this new project, how it came about, and what we can expect from Euphomet Obscira? Yeah, Euphomet Obscura is really an opportunity to take a look back at the stories

of Euphomet Season 1 and dig deeper into the history, the mythos, the lore behind the stories. And so we're going back to places like West Virginia and talking about the monsters and detailing even historic tales and firsthand accounts of individuals as far back as the mid-century that have experienced this behavior because it's interesting. I was thinking about it this morning and I came to this realization that I believe, and I think I'm not alone here, that the stories of this other generation that live through the UFO flaps that have lived through paranormal, supernatural, occult experiences throughout history. Those stories are just as important as the stories we're living today. And so obscure is really an opportunity to put on a little bit of a

different narrative hat and use the stories of you've met season one and beyond to go and dig into the history of these people and places and experiences. Digging deeper, which is what I really appreciated about the first episode of Obscura that I listened to recently. And that was sort of, I love this idea of like kind of a companion to the main episodes where you get to know the people more that you talk to. You get to know the stories more. And like you said, one of those was West Virginia, your travels with Greg and Dana Newkirk.

Now, for anyone who hasn't heard of the original Euphimed episode with them, go listen to it right now. Stop this episode. Go listen to it. It made me cry, man. Like, literally brought me to tears. Oh, wow. Thank you. Thank you.

Just to hear how Greg and Dana met in their entire story of finding one another and having these commonalities in terms of curiosity and, you know, this veil that had been broken for them of what's real, what's not. and how they took that journey together was just, it was so touching and, ah, it's rich, and to know that that wasn't it, that we were going to get more from them with this Obscura episode. We can go deeper and everything strange that has happened in West Virginia. Give us a little bit about this first episode of Obscira. You know, you're covering everything from the Silver Bridge to Mothman and beyond. So maybe would you mind touching on that for us? Firstly, I just wanted to paint a picture for you in regards to Greg and Dana, who I have the utmost respect for, who I think I've developed maybe a lifelong relationship with this point in terms of our ability to create work together is something special.

And we're finding these people within our community, you included, that we keep circling around each other and we keep essentially proliferating this next generation of the esoteric influencers. and thought leaders in the world, not to say that I am that, but hopefully I am helping propagate those stories and narratives out there, right? So imagine being in the wilderness of West Virginia, you're at the T&T area, this stark stretch of land that goes and dives deeply into swampish area, it's dark, there's these concrete munition dome surrounding, you. There's no one else in sight. The only form of human interaction or having that point is nearby gunfire from, you know, as John Keel would say, trigger happy heroes are out there, right, shooting off their guns. That we hear in your episode. I'm sorry. Yeah. And that was all real.

That was all happening to us at that time. Can I add, Jim, I'm sorry. I have to add the audio quality of your show, like putting us in there with everything that's going on in the background. And You can hear your feet crunching on the ground below. Like, it just puts you into the world that you're living in in that moment. And I have to commend you on that before we go any further. It just, it's audio documentary and like investigative journalism in a way I've never seen or heard before in podcast form. So first of all, thank you for that. I'm done fanboying.

Go ahead, my man. Go ahead. No, I mean, please continue, Ryan. No, thank you, of course, my friend. And obviously, selfishly, those are the parts of the show that I really geek out on. It's the little details, the little cinema quality soundscapes that I seek to produce for the show that really kind of excites me and gets me going. After a long, hard edit session where I've been putting together narrative pieces for hours and hours and hours and hours and putting together a full, complete episode, it's at sort of the tail into that where I can start. placing music and placing the soundscapes and placing that documentary footage I want to

to really highlight the narrative and create those connective tissues and also highlight just the emotions of what's going on in that scene, right? So it's kind of like my treat. You know, it's kind of like I get to like sort of sit back and relish in that. What if it's places like this where kids have come and put so much pent up energy and aggression and, you know, sexual tension and, you know, sexual tension and into a place that they've just ripped that hole open. Strange shape of these buildings and, you know, maybe it has something to do with locationally where it is,

just is the perfect spot for something like that to kind of manifest. Magnifies it, maybe. Everything you say in here lasts longer. Like it has a vibration that carries it, like, further almost. then when we're standing outside and everything sounds flat. And like once you've said it, it's done. Everything in here, it's like elongated, stretched out, vibrational. But you know what's interesting about that?

So is everything that happens in Point Pleasant? It just vibrates out for decades. It even grows. I mean, Mothman was only here for a year. But has he ever really left? It's also opportunities to be out in the field. me an opportunity an excuse to put an emphasis on being in these places with the people involving these experiences and retelling these historic paranormal stories that we've all heard a million

times. What does that place sound like? When you're in the T&T area and you're crunching around and you're going to the domes and you're going to the birthplace where the mothman was first cited, the historic mothman, what does that gravel sound like? What do those domes? feel and sound like. And so that's what I'm really hoping is conveyed to the audience. And those are the things that are really of interest to me. Now, you might remember, you from at the main series, it really is about the unknown and our relationship to it, with the emphasis being our relationship to the unknown. And so these are transformative human stories. It's how does the paranormal, the supernatural, the unexplained affect personal lives and transform us as human beings? And so,

it's connecting the pieces on what these human stories are really saying about us. So when I was originally down there and we were working on this episode, me and the new Kirk's, the idea was that we were telling a love story around the mythos of Mothman and the strangeness that occurs, the synchronicity that occurs, the monsters that appear in collaboration with this point pleasant and greater West Virginia. So the three of us are standing there in the T&T area, and all three of us are in tears. Greg proclaiming his love for Dana, Dana proclaiming the love for Greg,

me just standing there just trying to keep it together so I don't ruin the integrity of the recording. And here we are in one of the most monstrous places in the United States with one of the most hauntingly, mysterious beast that anyone can ever think of in terms of American monster lore. And we're all just sharing these emotions together in this superhuman space. And so those are the type of experiences. Those are the type of interesting phenomenon in its own right, I think, that I want to

help kind of display to the euphemat audience. And obscure is definitely an opportunity for that. And I thought there was no better place to start than West Virginia. West Virginia was a place where at the start of producing Euphemat, I never thought I'd be there as much as I was. I was there for weeks, and I had no idea that, A, those opportunities would be presented to me, and B, that I would enjoy it as much as I did. There's no other place that I've experienced that you feel so closely connected to the history of paranormal activity as that place. And I've been to a lot of, and we'll cover some of them, I'm sure, I've been to a lot of historically,

haunted historically active places. But there's something about West Virginia. Maybe it's all the shadows associated with this place. But there's something that that history lives through it. Maybe it's isolation. Maybe it's because it's untouched. But what was interesting is that the Mothman story is really a story that begins with a salesman who reports a craft and an entity encounter, which then leads to these strange events that happen over a year in and around Pointe Pleasant, West Virginia. And It all ends with this tragic bridge collapse where 46 people die. They all fall into the Ohio River, you know, while Christmas shopping. So it's a heavy place as well.

There's a lot of trauma. There's a lot of interesting energy happening seemingly. But it's also perhaps a story about the nature of reality. And it's because of this that it's been an inspiration to so many of those in the paranormal field to look for some sort of unified explanation of. the strange actually, you know, because the story of Point Pleasant in 1960s, it's one about monsters, UFOs, men in black, synchronicities. So that's why the New Crookers and myself went out to West Virginia a few times last fall to record stories of you've met. But we created some

really interesting episodes, I think. But there was still so much more I wanted to say about the history of that place and the lore of Point Pleasant. And I think, again, those old personal stories of this stuff are just as important as what is happening now. What was really interesting is the injured cold part of this and that that archetype is seemingly present in so much supernatural and paranormal phenomenon that I was actually really interested in asking you about what your feelings are about Indrid Cold and his place in euophology. Yeah, I mean, for any of those out there

who've studied the work of Keel or even heard the name Indrid Cold, it conjures these rather terrifying images of this, you know, pale, grinning man almost. But when you actually look, or should I say hear, the accounts from Darren Bergerth, When you actually hear his voice in your episode, who knows how long or short after he had that encounter, it's not so much a terrifying experience.

It was almost beautiful in a way when he had this encounter with this strange being known as cold, as injured cold. And following closely behind this car was this unidentified flying object. And as the car ahead, or the car behind past me, this object was following close behind it, and it swerved directly in front of my truck, turning crosswise. And when it turned crosswise, it slowed down. It started slowing not abruptly or too fast, but it gave me plenty of time to step on my brakes and slow down with it. But it forced me to come to a complete stop. As soon as I had stopped, there was a door opened in the side of this vehicle,

and this man stepped out and came directly to me. And this man stood there, and he first asked me what I was called. And I knew he met my name, and I told him my name. And he asked me, he said, why are you frightened? He said, don't be frightened. We wish you no harm. He said, we mean you no harm. We wish you only happiness.

And I told him my name, and when I told him my name, he said he was called cold. That was the name that he was called by. And as far as I can understand, this was all mental. There was no spoken words from him. I knew what he was asking me, but yet he stood there and his mouth did not move. He had a smile on his face.

He was prepared very courteous and friendly. And after I talked with him a while, He told me he would see me. He said, we will see you again. And he left in his vehicle. So for me, this is one where I will turn people to this if they really want to start looking into the UFO phenomenon from a very deep personal place. I mean, this case is just wrought with everything. Like you said, UFOs, moth men, the silver bridge collapse.

the Flatwoods Monster case happening in the West Virginia area as well. So it all, like you said, swirls into this whole weird spectrum of the weird, the unexplainable. And it's not just nuts and bolt to theology. And that's why I turn people to this. If you want to go into looking at the UFO mythos or history strictly as flying saucer seen in the sky and reported, you're going to be very, I think, both surprised. and a little taken back by how far and deep this all actually goes and how interconnected it is.

So for me, the injured cold thing is just something I'm only beginning to scratch the surface of personally. Yeah, it's very interesting because he is a character. He is an entity. Perhaps says more about us than it does about him. You know what I mean? Our reactions to him? what we think about him. And that's essentially, I think, where I've landed with this phenomenon in general.

So when I started the new series of Euphemat with Euphimet season one, I had no idea what this project had in store for me. And so almost a year later, I'm left in a place where I don't know what I believe anymore. It has shattered every single expectation. Now, I know the last time I was on your show, we talked about my first, hiatus from the original series of Euphamette, which was sort of this experimental talk show format with some audio documentary and music and stuff. I had to step away from that at a point in time when I spun out because of some increased activity around UFO sightings and my relationship with that phenomenon, which kind of just freaked me out and some synchronicities that were too strange to be just coincidence. At this point in time, I was committed to finishing a season of the show. I was on a network.

It's my job. I couldn't walk away. So at this point, I was forced to stare into the abyss and have it stared back at me and reckon with that. Typically, while I was on the road. And I think that's what West Virginia, I think that's what keel. I think that with these stories, they say more about us as people interested in the paranormal than anything else, almost because we can more easily seemingly step into the shoes of keel for a moment than we even can i mean for me at least heinick you know jow and heinick that guy was a genius right um he was a

university professor i'm a podcaster i make content i create stories i mean it's not all too dissimilar to what people do with investigations and hardline scientific research keel was a writer he when when this stuff when he got the call about the moth man. He was actually already in West Virginia, but at the time he was writing for a magazine covering an alleged cat with wings. So as you do. As you do. So, you know, he wrote for magazines like Playboy. He was actually out on the road for them researching the UFO phenomenon. So I, you know, I think he is a sort of a perfect example of the work that a lot of us are doing right now, much closer than someone that perhaps is more of a studious lineage. So I think we connect

with Keel. And I think that, you know, speaking of the Newkirks, it's not too dissimilar to what they're experiencing. And if you actually watch, they have this great new web series called Hellyer Out right now. And it's on Amazon Prime. It's on Hellyer.tv. You can watch it pretty much everywhere. That is the closest, I think, in addition to Juvenat, that is the closest that you, that is the closest that you can get to feeling like you're in these spaces. And I think it's really interesting that some of, some of those in the field right now with boots on the ground are being very honest about their relationship to this phenomenon. And it's a very rocky relationship and where we don't always know where each other stands, us in reality. So, you know, watch Hellier and experience some of the

stuff that John Keel was talking about and experience how maybe he feels. felt sort of all alone in the hills of West Virginia in the 60s. We have you traveling to West Virginia. Next, the other one that really stood out to me was your trip to the Stanley Hotel. You got to do some pretty cool stuff while you were there. So could you maybe tell us a little bit about spirit divination and what that represents? Yeah, so the Stanley Hotel, for those not familiar with this place, is the inspiration for Stephen King's Overlook Hotel in the classic book The Shining. I went and actually grabbed a statement about how it inspired him, and I think it paints a

really good picture of the setting in which you're walking around in when you're there. And so he said in late September of 74, Tabby and I spent a night at a grand hotel in Estes Park, Colorado, the Stanley. We were the only guests, as it turned out. The following day, they were going to close the place down for winter. Wandering through its corridors, I thought that it seemed the perfect. maybe the archetypical setting for a ghost story. That night, I dreamed of my three-year-old son running through the corridors,

looking back over his shoulder, eyes wide, screaming. He was being chased by a fire hose. I woke up with a tremendous jerk sweating all over within an inch of falling out of bed. I got up, lit a cigarette, sat in the chair, looking out the window at the Rockies, and by the time the cigarette was done, I had the bones of the book firmly set in my mind. So everything he said is true. When walking the corridors, you can imagine yourself being chased by a ghostly fire hose. You have this historic mansion in an epic setting.

It's the quintessential setting for any haunted hotel movie ever. But the thing is this, those feelings are more than some form of a culturalization or inspiration from pop culture. They're not a lie. The phenomenon seems to be real there. The stories that come out of this place certainly are real. So I went there. I got together with Carl Pfeiffer and Connor Randall. These are two notable ghost investigators.

They can also be seen in Hillier, actually. Carl, you had, you just had on the show, right? Yeah. And is the director of Hillier. Carl and Connor were the resident investigators for a number of years. They have most certainly conducted the most investigations this location has ever had in its history. And over time, not only seemed to be able to identify unique individual spirits, but moreover, they developed relationships with these spirits, engaging, you know, sometimes

in rich conversations, connecting and even discovering some lore associated with other historic stories. They found through their investigations were able to disprove certain myths associated with some of the spirits that people were allegedly encountering. They did this using a lot of different techniques, but one of the ones that was most sort of startling to me, and one that I experienced myself was the Estes method. This is a method that Carl and Connor created. It was using technique and tools from other divination and other ghost investigation techniques and kind of smashing them together to create a different situation.

of course, named after Estes Park, the Estes Method being originated there. So Greg Newkirk actually just wrote an excellent piece detailing the Estes method at Weekendweir.com. So I encourage folks to check that out. But basically, Carl, Connor, and their partner, Michelle Tate, she was another investigator at the time of the Stanley. They were all spitballing an idea. They'd been kicking around since, you know, 2011 or so when they had started. You know, what if they isolated the noise from a spirit box? A spirit box for those that are not familiar, you'll see them on a lot of ghost hunting investigation TV shows.

These are a device that essentially sweeps through the radio signals and it pulls like sort of random noises that come through. And, you know, this spirit box has been sort of manipulated by ghost hunters or essentially manipulated by spirits, rather, to give signals. Both ends. Both in probably both through, especially in terms of TV, right? Yeah. And then those signals are. fed into a person, essentially making them the receiver. So what they did is they hooked Connor up to a pair of headphones.

They sat them down in the concert hall's basement, the hallway of the basement, where they had been experiencing sort of increased activity. While Connor sat quietly, closed his eyes, he was listening to the direct feed of the SB7, which is the technical name for the spirit box. Carl began to ask him questions. And these questions were pointed. at the ghost and the Stanley. Well, Connor began to spit out answers.

These answers actually made sense. They were seemingly real replies to what Carl was asking. So, you know, they soon added a blindfolded. They soon added noise reducing headphones. And this was essentially just to make sure that the receiver was completely just paying attention to the signals he was receiving in his headphones

and nothing else. No lip reading. No, oh, I can hear you outside of the head. headphones. I tried it myself. I put on the headphones. I put on the blindfold. It was freaky just to for lack of better words. You're hearing this signal at full volume. It's like glitching at you. It's like I'm sure people that are familiar with EDM music and you know, trance music might be very into this. Because it really is. It changes your state of consciousness almost, I believe. Just like various light patterns can do that. Various sound signatures and vibrations

can seemingly change what our conscious levels are. And this most certainly seems to do that. So we're in my room of the fourth floor of the Stanley. I had been taken through the dark corridors already, you know, had all the goosebumps associated with hunting for ghosts in a historically haunted place like this. And they pulled out all the stuff for the Estes method. And we began to perform the Estes method in my hotel room. So as Carl began to ask questions, Connor began saying whatever popped up in the scan, and being that these two have conducted conversations,

in-depth discussions actually with someone perhaps for hours, they weren't so surprised by what we found that night. But to me, as a first-time observer, it was absolutely jarring, Ryan. And to be there to see their exchange, to hear the unsolicited, seemingly, answers that Connor was giving out. And to have Connor say things like, Jim, are you recording as I stand across the room and begin to record with my recorder? It was something I'll never, I'll never forget. And so at some point, I realized I had to sleep in that room after they left.

There's stark reality for you. And that perhaps was the most frightening part of that evening. But no, there's certainly some sort of real phenomenon going on there. The stories about the level of activity, there's certainly something to it. And I felt it firsthand and I'll never forget it. But I was wondering, and I wanted to ask you, Ryan, does any of that, resonate with you? Have you been to a location that doesn't even have to really convince you that something supernatural is going on? Yeah. So, I mean, for me, I've been sharing this recently on a few interviews that I was the interviewee of. And I had one, I would say, supernatural experience that completely shifted my reality, my perception of the supernatural. And I'll be honest, man.

I've always been very skeptical when it comes to the paranormal, which is odd because I am a UFO investigator, so many people would think that I would have a very open mind when it came to this possibly connected phenomena or disconnected phenomena. But I had an experience in Nova Scotia, in Liverpool, Nova Scotia, at the Queens County Museum, where I worked with a spirit box. It was the first time I'd ever heard of this thing, experienced it. And it's hard for me to talk about this one because I don't know how to put into words how I felt and what I experienced. And I'm still trying to this day. I try to write it out as best I can and I end up throwing away the paper or the file that I was typing up of it. It's so personal.

And it's so powerful and impactful in that moment that even if I were to try to write, down what happened, it would never, it would pal into comparison to what actually happened. You know what I mean? I'll save you on this one. I'll toss you a lifeline and just say, I completely empathize with you because at the end of season one of EufaMet, I had to create an entirely new series called Obscira to help me work out what the hell I experienced during that time. Because there are no works.

So for these experience where there are no words, and you're still struggling when you're challenged by these notions that shake your firm belief in what is real and what is not, how do you communicate that to someone in addition to being communicated in a way that perhaps hopefully allows them in with what you're experiencing a little bit? How do you illustrate these experiences in that way? And so I get it, man. It takes a long time to process that. Some people never do, right?

How many people will never do it? What is very interesting to me is that I don't know if you feel this way about the experience that you're struggling to reconcile right now. Do you feel, and this is a personal question as well, and I'm sorry I turned your show around on you here. Oh, please. But do you feel any sense of shame associated with it? Yes, I do. I completely know what you mean. I feel shame because I'm a relayer of stories, kind of like yourself and many other people out there who want to give voices to those who've had these inexplicable experiences and can't quite find the words for it.

So that's where I like to come in and be like, look, I got this. I went to school for writing. I'm good with characters. I'm a playwright. Like, I got you. I will get your voice out there. And it's going to be clear and concise. and you're going to love it.

And now I find myself in the shoes of the witness or the experiencer. And I have no idea what the fuck to write. And that's where I find myself right now is for me, you know, you found obscure to be your way of trying to translate or interpret these things. For me, I'm trying to write now an entire book about a topic I know nothing about. And that's the paranormal. And I'm talking to people. in the academic fields, the scientific field, UFO research, paranormal. And I'm like,

am I, am I an idiot? Should I even be attempting to write about this? Something I know nothing about? And all of them said, if it's what you want to write about, then do it. So for me, man, I understand the whole shame thing. And for me, it's more of feeling shameful of, I might get some, some hate for this for being so skeptical of all these other topics that are out there that you're exploring and that images have experienced. I've spent my whole life looking up into the skies for answers to the UFO phenomena. And I've sort of brushed off everything else that's weird and crazy going on right here on the ground. So for me, it's a shame of feeling like I, for so long, have closed my mind and maybe even my heart off to these other things going on

all around me. So I'm trying to reconcile with that right now and trying to. And trying to now reach out to the paranormal community and to others investigating other things and to open that door for them to come on my show or to talk to me in interview form and to really start exploring. And I know it's going to be scary and funny and weird and awkward, beautiful, whatever it's going to be is what it's going to be. So I'm trying to strip away that shame and trying to embrace these things more each day. Yeah, I resonate with that. completely. And you know, what's interesting about it is perhaps we need to remember it. You know, we need to move past it, but we need to remember that feeling because how better to empathize

with the witnesses, with the experiences that we talk to every day, than to feel how they may feel. You know, a lot of folks that, you know, more people than not have experiences they can't explain, more people than not never share them because they're ashamed about it. And now I know how that feels. Now, I've already let the cat out of the bag and a few other podcast guest appearances about some of the experiences that I had. I hope to share those in a more detailed and creative-oriented way in Obscira. But, you know, I had my first ghost apparition sighting while taping, Euphanet, Obscira. And it was actually in West Virginia, of all places.

And that's a story I haven't shared on my show yet because, you know, the most. main series is not really so much about me. It's about the feature, right? Obscure is an opportunity for me to dive back in and give my side of the story and give my representation. And I'll tell you what, like having to construct an entire series around this notion of trying to figure out what the fuck I saw is an interesting way to do it, but I hope I didn't paint myself in a corner. Well, you know, even if you did, like that's that's the beauty of it, man. Then then you work your way out from that corner. You know what I mean? That's that's why I love what you're doing is, you know, when my book came out, it was all about other people and what they experienced and

getting their voices out there. And now for my second book, I find myself sort of walking the same line as you of, okay, so I heard all these stories. I got them out there. So how did that, what did that do to me? How did it affect me as the, the author and the person interviewing them? So that's where I'm going with this second book is challenging myself and getting my thoughts and beliefs and opinions out there. Maybe people won't give a shit about what I think. And that's completely fine. For me, this second book is going to be a journey, a personal journey, whereas the other one was more about other people. So I completely understand what you're saying.

I might give up on the project halfway through. I hope I don't. But I want to put myself in those situations like you did of going out there and experiencing these. things and boots on the ground. You know, my my first book was a lot of interactions through email and through Skype and a couple face-to-face interviews and whatnot, which was cool. But I want to get out there and experience these things for myself because no words I put down about what someone told me will ever compare to actually going out there and experiencing

it myself. So, yeah. Well, it's true. And it's very interesting that you give yourself the out to be. to be like, well, I might get into this, but I might get right back out or I might not finish this thing. And honestly, that is the process for anyone on this road, right? Because there are those moments of spin out. I'm sorry, I begin to gravitate towards talking about belief and talking about our relationship to the unknown

in these sort of stark, more philosophical degrees because it's what I'm going through right now. and I think it's what I have to channel my work through, but also be very careful to subdue it in my own creative work, because there's that point in time where you don't want almost too much of yourself into the work, if that makes sense. But, you know, these are things, these situations of leap or don't leap. There's a lot of information, a lot of thoughts from some of the best minds in the field that have talked about this.

You know, philosophers and psychonauts like Robert Anton Wilson describing chapel perilous, you know, where it's that moment where, you know, you move forward or become a stark raving agnostic. There seems to be a fork in the road. I talk to the Nurek's about one foot in, one foot out all the time, and that the importance of that in doing this work is that, you know, you mentioned that the pursuit of some of the stuff

could be funny and awkward and unexpected. And I think that's a great place for that to be. Because just like how a non-dual Kabbalist would suggest, you actually use your ego in the pursuit for sort of higher consciousness, so perhaps the paranormal investigator in the sense that you need to ground yourself in some way to be able to dip your toe into the other side. Because here's the thing, Ryan, whatever is on the other side, is reflexive seemingly.

Now this is the part where I don't know what I believe, but I believe something is a little weird in that, you know, I had this great conversation with paranormal investigator John Tenney and he's an OG in this field. And a lot of us go to him. If we're like spun out and very confused, we'll get a hold of John.

I have a few times, but a lot of my associates lean on him quite heavily. To be like, John, what are we doing here? You know, John once described a very, aptly as some sort of game perhaps in that if you if you if you if you poke or knock on the nature of reality well more often than not it may knock back and in very unexpected ways and so this goes into union synchronicity and shared consciousness all these different very deep very deep rabbit holes right that we don't know enough about but there is some evidence there are stories

are anecdotal and investigative stories that lean into this realm of an unknown reality that we can think about, we can consider, but the thing is, is that all seems to contain this paranormal activity, whether it is anomalous lights, right, whether it is a cryptid creature, whether it is a ghost haunting. There seems to be some sort of cosmic connection

in some of this. And I think it's trying to tell us, maybe, maybe it's trying to tell us, Maybe it's trying to tell us something about the nature of reality. Maybe it's the nature of reality actually revealing itself. Sorry, I know it blew you open there. Hey, no, I love it. Can I ask you a question real quick in regard to the S-S method?

Yep. Really interested in your take on this, in regards to, you know, some of these cats in the UFO field, they believe that there is a spiritual component to communication with UFOs and anomalous lights, right? do you think if that is true, do you feel that like something like the Estes method could be useful in perhaps UFO communication? That is a really good question.

I mean, as I'm watching Hellier and learning that you went through this as well, it never dawned on me. Like if someone were to have a prolonged UFO experience, I think that's the problem we run into is these UFO events are like done in the blink of an eye. and there's nothing to gauge, you know, or to record or trace. But maybe, just maybe, if an event were prolonged and we were able to try to communicate that way, it'd be possible. Or maybe not. Maybe the event is over, and we just go to the place where it happened in attempt communication through the Estes method.

I'm completely open to that, and I've actually never thought about it. Yeah, I think at this moment I want to start another project, and someone can copy it, they want to. I don't care. Like, try. Let's go to the paranormal hotspots in the world, and let's just throw out every single divination and just like see what. Yeah, why not? You know, I mean, I think we're at this point in time where if a veil exists between us on this other side, seemingly it's a little thin right now. And maybe there's, maybe there's numerology and astrology. Maybe there's things that we know cosmically that's why that's happening right now. In any case, it seems like it is true. And I also feel like that the, if there's a veil

between the different topics of interest within the paranormal, perhaps that is also more than than ever before in my regards. Now, that being said, there has been flaps of others, like I said, trying to figure out, you know, sort of a universal, you know, universal explanation to spookiness, right? I believe that like, didn't Jaffa Leigh even like kind of was messing with this idea or created some notions, didn't me, about like sort of a universal explanation for the weird? Oh, yeah. I mean, you look at everything he's looked at in this whole idea of like a controlled mechanism. That's something bigger and more weird than we ever thought possible is in control of all of this stuff.

Or maybe it's not in control. Maybe it opened Pandora's box itself and it can't contain it anymore. Yeah. It's very interesting because that that is how I felt when I was doing an episode with Peter Gerston. Oh, yeah, this is the, this one was really out there, man. I'm not going to lie. This was, yes, please, please, if you wouldn't mind touching on this one for me, the vortex. Yeah, I went and visited the vortex jumper. I thought I was going to die.

Yeah, explain this to us, please. Yeah, so when I reached out to Peter Gerston about featuring his story and an audio doc, he simply said, if you agree to come to the top of Bell Rock, I'll do it. And so I was jazzed up. I agreed and I headed out to where he lives in Sedona, Arizona. Obviously, that's a loaded place in itself. For anyone that's not familiar with it,

it's full of crystal shops and psychics. It's sort of a baby boomer's mystical epicenter in a way. A big time, yep. A metaphysical dream. Yes, exactly. And it's nestled between these walls. wild red rock mountains. And one of them is Bell Rock,

in which Peter climbs every single day. So I'm there with my assistant producer, Chelsea, Weber Smith, who actually has this great podcast now called American Hesteria, if you want to check that out. And we meet up with Peter at Bell Rock around, I don't know, probably 7 a.m. So we can beat the heat, right? Not to mention this is summer in Arizona. So it's already way too hot for someone who hasn't gone to the gym in months

because he was, you know, hold away too busy talking about UFOs and John D with Ryan Sprague. You know, so Peter Gerstyn was once known as a UFO lawyer, had some historic battles against the U.S. government to help obtain UFO documents. He worked with all the heavy hitters in the 70s and 80s, valet, Heinek, multiple TV appearances where he sort of blew the lid off on a lot of different governmental conspiracies and notions. and I really knew him and connected with him from being a guest on coast to coast in the 90s. Since then, Peter has adopted a new nickname. He's no longer the UFO attorney.

He is the Vortex Jumper. And he believes he stars his own game, his own virtual reality show, if you will. And with the help of things like synchronicities, numerology, and signs, he basically interprets messages from the game. and figures out what his missions are and what his next moves are. And that essentially comes from this notion that he believes we live in a simulated reality, right?

And that we're but sort of avatars and that we're all part of this game, kind of. Or that we are a part of his game, rather, perhaps. Interesting. So he got a message in, I think it was 2011 maybe, and this message was that he had to take a certain amount of people to the Top of Bell Rock by a certain date.

He had to take 1,111 people. Top of Bell Rock, December 21st, 2012 at 11.11 p.m. What was supposed to happen is upon completing this task, something like a vortex or a mothership would appear at the top of the mountain.

And the vortex jumper was ready to make the leap into this. So, Peter had everyone convinced he was going to jump off the mountain. So on the night, on that night at the top of the mountain, he was flanked by helicopters, police, you know, sort of morbid onlookers, right? They thought this man was going to jump. On that night, Peter did not jump. Not often to a vortex or craft or to his death, thankfully, he climbed down, dejected because he didn't bring up enough people up to the

top by the deadline. And he thought his story was over until, of course, new signs. Symbols and messages were received and new goals were put in a place. So Peter essentially generously leads climbers up to the top of Bell Rock. He has the top of the Bell Rock Club. Happens every day. It's sort of like in the hope to spread positivity, curiosity, curiosity, inclusivity.

It's really admirable. I'm not a member of the Top of the Bill Rock Club. but you did go up there right Chelsea is so I realized I didn't want to make the eight foot vertical climb to the very top at the at the very end of the mountain I mean it was just like a sheer

a sheer cliff face oh yeah it's like oh yeah it's easy so yeah get up there he's like 89 he's like yeah yeah jump jump up there it's like no no no I'm gonna just enjoy this vista yeah down here with his soccer mom and taking the sights but yeah it's it's interesting because he has a lot

of ideas about what the nature of reality is and what his sort of role is in it. But it all started from a place of anomalous light activity. It all started in a place of potential UFO contact. But what this episode was really about is what is in the stories we tell ourselves? You know, how do we order the chaos around us? and how do we order that chaos when it changes direction? So really it's much more about what we think about ourselves in our own reality than anything else. What I find really interesting is like you said, that this started with just anomalous lights in the sky.

And now this guy has an entire like story behind this almost simulated reality that he's uncovered and that in some ways, you know, all of us are looking for that vortex to jump into, you know. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I guess that third act to our story that we've had our whole lives. And whether or not that vortex is real or not, it's the importance you give the journey that you're taking and that you might be in control of it or you might not. And that's a struggle we all face every day, I think, is, you know, is, you know, is. Is everything all mapped out already for us? Or is it just a matter of getting to from point A to point B that's already been destined? Or can we make our own, you know, rewrite our own stories? I find that more fascinating than just, you know, anomalous lights in the sky for sure. Yeah. So it's very interesting talking to you today and following your journey and knowing from where you started and, you know, following your work for years now. It's interesting

to hear that this other activity is creeping into your work and that, you know, somewhere in the skies is essentially perhaps turning a little bit, but like somewhere in the universe, something is going on. We don't understand a reality. Dude, that is, I, and to all the listeners, Jim and I have not discussed any of this before. I've been toying with the idea of doing my own obscure called somewhere on the ground, you know, where these things are happening all around us, and I've been shut off to that for so long. And I also don't want people to think I'm, like,

going off the deep end and that someone in the skies is no longer going to be about UFOs. No, that is my lifeblood, is these mysteries in our skies. But I cannot deny that there is so much else going on that I think might, might be connected to UFOs. And you're right, man. I'm starting to really take that leap and I don't see a problem with that. You know, prove to me it's not real. I'm going to go in believing all of it and then prove to me it's not and then we'll take it from there.

I like that. I like that approach. Well, another one that really caught my attention was, Jim, you talked to a Sasquatch lately? Oh, man. What's going on there? Yeah, I mean, perhaps. Perhaps.

I don't know. Who am I to judge? I know that I know that I was If Sasquatches are to exist I was essentially in their home base Okay

What's interesting about going into British Columbia Deep into the mountains British Columbia Some of the most dense Wilderly forest You can encounter anywhere Is that it reveals all sorts of things About whoever is in that forest

In that place in that time And what I mean by that is that as humans, I think it's very important for us to establish relationships. Whether that is with a person, whether that's with a pet, whether that's with an idea, I think establishing relationships to things, ideas, notions is how we define ourselves, right? So again, as I headed into the forest with this great guy, Brian, Chelsea Webber Smith was with me again, we drove deep into the forest. It was one of those things. where when someone's driving you deep into the forest

and you're going for as long as you are, you hope in the back of your head that, yes, absolutely, we're going to go see like alleged Sasquatch stuff. Right. Because anything else is just too scary. Exactly. I'm with a stranger driving out of the woods.

What is going on here? In any other situation, this is not okay. But Brian was a generous and gracious hosts. He took us to essentially these spots where he believes that he communicates with the Sasquatch family. Now I discovered there's a whole community online that believe

that Sasquatch people, this is what they call them, Sasquatch people, leave symbols and signs to communicate with us to raise our consciousness. To convince us that something else is out there, that they're out there, that they're looking and they're watching and they're

listening to us. And this started to materialize with glyphs. And so, Brian and a growing community, especially online, of like-minded folks are now deciphering this Sasquatch Code. The Sasquatch Code contains letter forms and pictures and glyphs that essentially communicate who these Sasquatch people are, what family they're a part of. Are they welcoming you?

Are they saying stay out of this area? Are they giving you some sort of sign or message? Usually these are done seemingly. It's their belief from their own names. This glyph represents this unique Sasquatch. Now, these names, of course, are attributed by the humans that find these unique symbols. We get to make up the language of what they're trying to interpret, right? But the consistency in which essentially these glyphs are found in various parts,

of the country and world. This signified different, you know, sort of Sasquatch people families or tribes is kind of, is interesting and the face value for sure. Sasquatch, this was a personal story for me. Sasquatch, I think, was one of the game changers for me when I was a kid.

Right. I think watching old episodes of In Search of and learning about the Patterson Gimlin tape, living in the Northwest my entire life, you can't go anywhere without Sasquatch being present in the pop culture fabric of this area and region

right so it's an important moniker it's an important character that symbolizes the strange to me sort of no different than a mascot of sorts now what's interesting to me is I don't I don't

stand on any sort of diametric positioning in terms of what I'd believe about the Sasquatch. It's legitimacy as a flesh and blood creature or something more hyperdimensional. Who's to say? In fact, I think it's absolutely nuts. And I've said this while going on Sasquatch shows. I think it's nuts when Sasquatch people get all hot and bothered and label things woo-woo that are outside their form of belief system in terms of what Sasquatch is because

come on. Show me the body, man. You don't know. How can you not know? So what was interesting about this community and their beliefs in Sasquatch is that they seemed ready to facilitate this idea that they didn't quite know if he was a flesh

and blood creature and or hyperdimensional creature or something else. A ghost-like creature, right? But they were consistent in terms of their belief that if shown the proper respect in the forest, you can in fact communicate back with him. And per Brian, sometimes they will reveal themselves in a flesh and blood sort of appearance and maybe even engage with you. So Brian had these stories of being welcomed into this Satch family essentially and communicating with him on a daily basis through signs and glyphs.

and making himself present and available to them. And playing games, like throwing rocks back and forth with a young Sasquatch child and things of this nature. So it gets into a very unique perspective about how we feel our relationship is with the anonymous, I think. And I think it's of one of belonging.

And I think that it's one of positivity. It's, okay, maybe these strange things are happening, but we don't have to necessarily be scared of them. We can embrace them with a warmth and a generosity, just like we would a neighbor or someone on the street, perhaps. And maybe if we approach this phenomenon that way, it will come back to us with a similar energy. And so I think that was really profound.

And, you know, listen, I didn't have any personal experiences while I was out there. But Brian did say, hey, next time you're out, in the wilderness, look down, see you can see any glyphs. And on a recent occasion, I did see one of the ex-gliffs on the ground that it represents. Now, here's the thing, is that it is very easy for anyone from the ages of two years old to 150, if that were even a number, to organize sticks on the ground. So I do want to put that out there. Like these are sticks, branches, rocks,

sort of arranged in patterns and letter forms, et cetera. So it's about the easiest thing you can do to fake, to facilitate. So who's to say? But if it's important and it's positive to these people, then also who cares? Yeah. You know? That's a really good point, Jim.

Whenever, you know, there's been a lot of talk of synchronicity, lately, probably because of the attention that Hellier is getting out there in the world. But this idea that synchronicities are very powerful and impactful to the person having it from an outside perspective. A lot of people scoff at it and say, it's just a coincidence. It's just like whatever. Like you're making something out of nothing. And that's exactly the point.

You are making something out of nothing. But that something means something to you and is now going to put you on a journey that you were never expecting, and as made you more alert and aware than probably ever before in your life. And that's what I love about the idea of this, of this, you know, just twigs and sticks on the ground that maybe just fell there. The wind blew them in a certain direction. They stacked on one or another, or someone kicked the rock right in the middle of it. I don't know, whatever. But you're going to see that completely different from the person next to you. Or someone's going to walk right over it and never think twice about it. And that's the beauty of all of this, is,

if, if someone notices it, and it was left there by some interdimensional being or an energy of some sort, if you happen to catch that, you're now connected to that thing for probably the rest of your life if you choose to. And that's what's so cool about all this man. Yeah, and it was fascinating to me that I thought I was going to get a lot of shit for that episode from more hardline researchers. Then I discovered, I don't think hardline researchers pay any attention to what I do or care. And maybe you shouldn't. Because when I'm looking at these stories and I'm looking at these experiences, I'm not looking for a truth. I'm looking for a truth in what they believe they're experiencing.

But I'm not looking to decode anything. I'm not looking to figure out or get to the bottom of anything really, except for the story itself. And I think, what else can you do? With any of this phenomenon, it's so anecdotal. It's so personal. You know this, that sometimes it's a fool's errand, I think. And what you can look at it, and at least how I look at this phenomenon,

is that it's important to essentially look at it with a class half full. You know, there's an opportunity to look at things in that way. I mean, a lot of people ask me, do you, what do you want from your work, your UFO work? Do you want to learn the truth of what UFOs are? And I always tell them, no, I'm never going to know that. I've accepted that a long time ago, actually. I'm never going to know what UFOs represent. They probably don't represent the same thing.

But they represent something different to every person who's experienced them. And that's what I found my new journey is in all of this, is just like you. How does it impact the people that seem to be intertwined with it? And what does that mean moving forward for them when they're, their entire life and journey has been shifted. And, you know, it's the importance you give it and the purpose you give it. And kind of the last, the last one I want to cover with you here is the idea of a real-life vampire. Now, for me, you know, I laughed when I first heard about this episode when you were down in New Orleans, right?

Yeah. But then when I actually listened to it and learned that you were going to be covering the more personal side of this with Obscura as well, you start to understand and relate in ways to these people you thought you may never relate to in so many different ways. So what happened here, man, with this real-life vampire and what you had to do in preparation for this one? Well, in preparation, it was really interesting because I went to New Orleans in what was essentially like a two and a half week, maybe a three-week euphemat trip where I was hopping all over the place

I was recording a lot of episodes doing a lot of investigation at that time and by the time I got to New Orleans I was burn out man I was tired I didn't know where I was doing that thing where for any of you that travel a lot where you wake up and you're I have no idea

where I'm at right now I got to look at my phone I got what's the last thing I posted on Twitter I don't know that's how I felt and so what was interesting is that I was walking into a situation, a place I had never been before, dealing with a phenomenon and energies, if this exists, that I've never experienced or dealt with before. And this is not only a voodoo energy, but a vampiric energy.

I was feeling a little exposed, needless to say. So as I got into the French Quarter where I was doing my feature with Balthazar, I checked into my hotel room in the first place I went. was a witchcraft shop because I knew they would have some sort of protective elements that, listen, I don't know like if these things

really work or not, but if I'm in a space where I'm worried about these energies, then might as well play along and protect myself in that plane anyway, right? Yeah, exactly. So I went there, I picked up a few objects.

It was funny. as I was asking for some guidance and help about, hey, these specific, the shopkeep, you know, these specific energies, how should I properly kind of protect myself from coming in here? And it was the classic, you know, kind of look around and see what resonates with you, which was kind of helpful, but at the same time, not so much. So I did. I went around, found a few objects that resonated with me, and then I was able to walk into my day, a much clearer headed, and then ruin that with an inordinate amount of bignets.

But, you know, New Orleans is, New Orleans, if the people listening right now, the listener, if you haven't been there, you need to go. It's haunted. Okay. There are more haunted places in New Orleans than not. In fact, there's a law with their real estate that you have to let people know if a place is haunted. And in fact,

realtors will post up signs of a place is not haunted because everything else is haunted. So you'll walk by and it'll go for lease, for sale,

and it'll say, not haunted. Who ever thought that that would be a selling point for a real estate? It's crazy. Yeah. So between its history

and politics, the weather, the Mississippi, it holds a lot of stories. And it holds its history very close to the current day. And so you're in it. When you go there, you're in it.

And on top of that, I'm going there to meet Balfasar, who is a voodoo priest. He is an ordained minister. He's an elder of a thing called the Mystic House of Echoes. And he's a vampire. And what I discover is that meeting him, learning about vampire houses, He is just one of many, many, many vampires that walk around every single day and live in every single city, every single town. These communities are thriving. And the vampires are real.

Now, vampires, to my knowledge, like don't turn into bats. They can eat garlic, right? I was in an elevator with a giant mirror with Balfazar, and I saw his reflection, which was very reassuring. as he was coming up to my hotel room to chat. So some of those more, you know, sort of strange occult preconceptions through fiction about what vampires are, what some of their traits are, I don't believe is real. But a person who believes that they have a physiological response

to the consumption of blood and then consumes human blood on a routine basis is absolutely a real thing. So vampires are real, and vampires are your next-door neighbor. And maybe you don't know what. So if that's not like sort of affirming enough and shaking in a way, when you learn that there are respectable,

community-oriented, very transparent houses of vampires, like Balthasar, like we learned in the episode with him, does a lot of community service, they feed the homeless, they don't feed on the homeless, they feed the homeless. Thank you for clarifying that. You know, they're very engaged in civic activities.

You find out about that, but you find out that that's not always the case everywhere. The vampires are real people, and just like every real people and every real group of people, they're good ones and bad ones. So don't get it out of your head that there is a, sense of alluring danger to all of this and that our ideas and misconceptions about vampires

and nefariousness that's associated with that imagery is not all completely 100% off base because there are individuals in the community that I think that probably do pose dangers to those that are out there and that although the episode when presented really painted this very optimistic and positive picture about the vampire community which I think you know, listen, is probably more often than not accurate, I would suggest that people don't just jump into a vampire house or a house of vampires and expect the same level of transparency, of community involvement, of warmness.

Tread on this stuff very lightly, folks, because there are other energies afoot. And if you're not ready to interpret what's negative and what is positive, if you're not ready to, I don't know, navigate those waters, then you probably shouldn't. And so that's what I will say. And that is sort of what I felt and I learned about vampire communities. And so, yeah, yeah, Ryan, vampires are everywhere. I met a really great one. And he was an awesome guy.

But it goes without saying. in all things paranormal and occult like be ready for some weirdness and make sure you're ready for it right right and you seem to be I mean I remember hearing your voice throughout the episode the journey you were taking and you could hear in your voice sort of the reservation

but also trying to embrace being in the moment too and it was it was a fascinating journey because again you put yourself in Jim Barry shoes of what would I do if I was in a house of vampires? And yeah, I'm told they do good things. They're good people. But then it comes down to actually like consuming the blood and that whole side of it all too. So what was that like experiencing that like in real time? Well, it was interesting because a lot of folks asked me, because of the immersive nature of the show, if I were myself to be a donor,

or even better, like, if I were to try to suck blood myself or something, right? Yeah. As if these were options, if these were on the table, which they weren't ever. And my answer would have been no, you know, and I think it's because there's a line that delineates from even being a participant observer, there's still a line of respect that one has to draw. So just like I wouldn't be comfortable engaging in certain religious activities or rituals or things of this nature that I'm not,

that I don't carry the proper level of respect into, that's how I felt about this process as well. Because even though a lot of vampires don't approach, this with a ritual, that it's not a religion for most vampires. Vampirism is not really a religion. It's more of an act, right, or a personage. It's a physiological ailment, right? It's a position you're put into.

I still didn't want to infringe on any of the respect that I assume is associated by that community into that act, right? Because you really, you really immersed yourself at that. that point if I'm there sucking someone's blood. Now here's one of the things is that there's a lot of different techniques for the consumptional blood. Sometimes folks will use different medical grade equipment, right? There's like a what is it, phlebotomy sort of technique that can be accompanied. But more often than not, I think that straight mouth to flesh is actually the preferred method. It certainly is for Balthasar. So Balthasar.

he'll make small incisions on usually the person's back and he'll suck it up. He'll just suck it up with his mouth, right? So although I did not see, I assume I would have had the option to see that myself if I wanted to. I had seen tape of it. So I know of its legitimacy and I know he's the real deal. And it's not hard to find these. communities and a lot of published material about how these communities operate. What's, what's interesting about it is that just like any communities, it's very divisive amongst themselves,

right? I mean, there's posers in the vampire community, you know, alleged posers. You know, these are the dress-up artists that like to attend balls and kind of are in it for the image, the imagery of it all. You know, it's sexy, it's mysterious, it's dark. And so you see a lot of too. And you see a lot of that in New Orleans specifically. But, you know, I encountered that, I encountered that energy and those type of folks on the Queen Mary in Los Angeles. You know, I've seen that stuff in New York City. So these, these folks really are everywhere. And what I think it really highlights is that we have a very unique set of circumstances to navigate through as folks investigating and featuring the stories of the paranormal.

Because it's the human element, right? You and I have talked about this extensively. You can't separate the human from these experiences. You can't separate where they're coming from, what their perspective is from these stories. And when folks decide to internalize that and become a part of that story, become a part of that mythos,

is very interesting to me. And I think that's what we see with vampires. Absolutely. And what we see, like you said, in every one of these communities is this want to belong with something, anything. We're all searching for communities to be a part of in this life. And when you can find something that resonates with you, makes you feel important, gives you meaning. I am all for it, man. Even if it is divisive or toxic at times, you're going to find those.

individuals to connect with within those communities who are going to build you up, make you a better person, make you think outside of what you're conditioned to think every day, and to really, really start that journey. And that's why I respect someone like you and the Newkirks and, you know, these boots on the ground, UFO researchers and investigators who are out there, exploring the world, exploring these mysteries that plague us every single day of our lives and and continue to do that and bring it to us. So, I mean, it's fascinating, man. I didn't know what to expect coming into this interview with you, which I never do.

And you always, you always hit me with just these deep things that make me not only think but feel. And I know that's what I felt with this first episode of Obscira. And I am going to be craving this every week, man. The atmosphere you bring to this, the people you, you, you, you, invest. invite us into the worlds with it's unique, it's personal, and I can't wait to see where it goes next, man. Well, thank you so much, Ryan. And it is really great to be able to share this journey with you, my friend, and to keep touching base and to keep collaborating on things is really great. I will mention that some of our first conversations in the original Euphemus series, which is not really available anywhere, we are like yourself, we're starting a patron.

and with Patreon we will be uploading essentially every archival episode weekly up there and by the time folks hear this our second release will be you and I's first conversation if folks want to check that out to see what we were doing and what was that like 2015 or 2016 how did it be 2015 maybe I think it was 2015 yep so to see where we were out with that to see what you were working on what I was working on and us trying to just a couple of kids trying to figure this stuff out years ago, you'll be able to access that with the Patreon. And so Euphemat is a completely independent production now.

We parted ways from Skylarc Media. We had a deal to work on one season, completed that deal and decided to go our own ways. So now Euphimed is a position where I'm leaning on my co-collabulators, I'm leading on my partners, I'm leading on the audience to help facilitate this project forward so we can continue telling these stories and unique and creative ways.

Awesome, man. Back in the hands of the individual who birthed it all, I should say, which I think is just going to make it so much more rich and personal for both you and your listeners. So where can we find the Patreon and the main euphemet

and euphemet obscure. So you can find the Patreon at patreon. Patreon.com slash euphamette. That will be launched on this upcoming Friday. By the time people listen to this, I'm not sure if it would be up or not. but probably. And you can follow me on social,

Twitter and Instagram at Eufa Met, and me personally, which is honestly where most the activity is. I would just follow me personally, not even the show. It's at Jim Perry. At it's Jim Perry. That's a mouthful.

At it's Jim Perry is what it is. You took it out of me today. I can't even talk anymore. Same here, man. This has been an amazing conversation tonight. And by the time this airs, I will be in flight back to New York City for a whole new journey myself. So I couldn't think of a better way to wrap up my time with Summer in the Skies here in Los Angeles than with

the individual who makes me think and feel more than anyone. So Jim, thank you again for coming on the final Los Angeles episode of Summer in the Skies. Thank you so much, Ryan. Appreciate it. That's it for this week's episode. Again, you can catch Euphemette Obscura right now on the euphamette feed on all podcast outlets. You can catch somewhere in the skies the same way. While you're at it, please subscribe, rate, and review where you can, and help us

grow invisibility to listeners out there. We've got some cool new merch in the store. Jacques Valet fans will find a brand new design right now, along with a super cool 80s vapor wave euphologist shirt. This and much more at the official T-Public

store. Just visit T-E-E-Public.com and search for the Somewhere in the Sky's store. Subscribe to our growing YouTube channel which is about to explode into overdrive once things settle down in New York. Just look for the Ryan Sprague channel. We're on

Twitter at SomewhereSkies and Instagram at Somewhere Skies pod. Thank you as always to E1 Hello Fresh, KGRA Radio and most importantly to you for listening. I'll see you here next week and remember, keep your feet on the ground, but never stop

searching somewhere in the skies. Somewhere in the skies is produced by Third Kind Productions in association with the Entertainment One Podcast Network. To learn more, visit Entertainment One Podcast.com. In reality, UFOs are seen by people from all walks of life every day all around the world. They've also been officially investigated by the U.S. government and by governments of several other countries, too. That's just a small element of what makes the strange UFO topic so incredibly fascinating and fun to explore. That's what we do on the UFO podcast, Unknown. I'm Jason McClellan, and I invite you to explore the weird and wonderful world of UFOs

with me and my friends and colleagues on Unknown. Unknown is available on Apple Podcasts, Google Play, Stitcher, IHeartRadio, Spotify, and all the usual podcast places.