Somewhere in the Skies - Lance Mungia: THIRD EYE SPIES

Episode Date: March 25, 2019

On episode 101 of SOMEWHERE IN THE SKIES, Ryan welcomes Lance Mungia to the show. Mungia is the director of the recently released documentary, Third Eye Spies  For more than 20 years the CIA used psychic abilities in a top-secret program. You paid for it; you deserve to know about it. A psychic spy program developed during the Cold War escalated after a Stanford Research Institute experiment publicized classified intel. As a result, the highly successful work of physicist Russell Targ was co-opted by the CIA and hidden for decades due to the demands of ‘national security.’ But when America’s greatest psychic spy dies mysteriously, Targ fights to get their work declassified; even if it means going directly to his former enemies in the Soviet Union to prove the reality of ESP to the world at large. Mungia runs us through some of the most compelling moments from the documentary, and then he shares, for the very first time, his personal UFO story. Guest Bio: Lance Mungia is an American screenwriter and film director of the film Six-String Samurai and co-writer/director of The Crow: Wicked Prayer for Dimension Films. Mungia also wrote and directed the short film Garden for Rio, produced at Loyola Marymount University, where he attended as a film student. To learn more, visit: www.wakinguniversefilms.com - Third Eye Spies is available on all streaming platforms, including Itunes, Amazon, and Vimeo. Patreon: www.patreon.com/somewhereskies To watch ROSWELL: MYSTERIES DECODED for free, CLICK HERE  Website: www.somewhereintheskies.com YouTube Channel: CLICK HERE Official Store: CLICK HERE Order Ryan's Book by CLICKING HERE Twitter: @SomewhereSkies Instagram: @SomewhereSkiesPod Opening Theme Song, "Ephemeral Reign" by Per Kiilstofte SOMEWHERE IN THE SKIES is part of the eOne podcast network. To learn more, CLICK HERE SOMEWHERE IN THE SKIES is sponsored by HelloFresh. To receive 50% off your first order, use promo code: SOMEWHERE50 at checkout by visiting www.HelloFresh.ca   Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/somewhere-in-the-skies. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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So please, help Somewhere in the Skies now by becoming a page. patron. To contribute and to learn more, visit www. www. patreon.com backslash SomewhereSkies. Thank you for your support. And now on with the show. Today on the show, a 20-year top secret CIA-run program that involved remote viewing and extrasensory perception. You paid for the program, and you deserve to know about it. This is Somewhere in the Skies with Ryan's bread. Welcome to Somewhere in the Skies. I'm your host Ryan Sprague. A psychic spy program developed during the Cold War escalated after a Stanford Research Institute experiment publicized classified intel. As a result, the highly successful work of physicist Russell Targ was co-opted by the CIA and hidden for decades due to the demands of national security. But when America's greatest psychic spy dies, mysteriously, Targ fights to get their work declassified, even if it means going directly to his

former enemies in the Soviet Union to prove the reality of ESP to the world. Revealed for the very first time, this is the newly declassified true story of America's psychic spies. The implications of their success shows us all what we are truly capable of. This is the premise for Lance Mungia's new documentary, Third Eye Spies, which we'll be talking about with him today. Lance has directed two theatrical features for Lionsgate and Dimension Films, and also is the director of the cult indie hit Six-String Samurai. He's won multiple awards, and his films have played at Sundance, Slam Dance, Toronto, Seattle,

and other major international film festivals. So, without further ado, Let's talk to Lance Mungia about third-eye spies. Lance, thank you so much for joining me today on Somewhere in the Skies. Oh, Ryan, you know, thank you for having me, man. This has been an anticipated event that I'm really looking forward to. Yeah, it definitely has. Trying to get this interview together is, gosh, probably his heart is actually remote viewing.

So I'm so happy it's happening. I've seen the film twice now. Third-Ey spies. That's what we're going to be talking about. All about tonight, remote viewing is, it's a whole new topic for me, honestly, man. We've never covered it on the show before. Some of my listeners might be familiar with it. But yeah, could you maybe just give us maybe the elevator pitch to what remote viewing is before we even get into how this film came about?

So, Third Eye Spies covers a 20-year history of government involvement with a phenomenon known as remote viewing. Now, remote viewing has been called other things throughout. history. It's not a new thing. People have always had intuitive abilities and people have always been able to sort of use them, you know, for outcomes. But in the modern era, you know, this is called now remote viewing. The term was actually coined by a man by the name of Ingo Swan, who at the time was considered the greatest psychic in the world, you know, who was doing experiments in his psychic abilities at Stanford Research Institute. Stanford Research Institute was given. giving him, you know, simple Gonsfeld, you know, card tricks to do where it's like guess what's in

the envelope and that kind of thing. And Ingo being sort of a showman and, you know, very ambitious, said, you know, this is dumb that you're giving me these card tricks. I can see anywhere in the world using my psychic abilities. Why don't you give me something better to do? And so they started sending someone around Palo Alto to hide on coffee breaks just to humor him. And in great detail, he would describe the environment that the person was in and even draw sometimes pictures of that. So what remote viewing is is the act of using only your mind to be able to sense, view, or otherwise describe hidden objects, people, or places that are unavailable to be seen by any other means. and that is a skill that takes place outside of space and time. And that's in a nutshell what remote viewing is.

Right. Outside of space and time. I look forward to digging into that a little bit later. But that was a great pitch, man. Now I got it. Now we can move on with what the film was truly about third-eye spies. But first, what is your origin story, Lance? How did this opportunity to make this film come about? How did you get connected with your centerpiece, Russell Tark?

as well. Well, you know, psychic abilities is something that have always interested me because I think as human beings, we all have intuitive flashes of insight and, you know, we go left instead of right and then the car misses us and, you know, stuff like that is something that always happens and we often just sort of discount as coincidence or craziness or something like that. And I was really no different. I'd experienced it in my life, but I had always sort of remained kind of skeptical because I think her ego kind of goes, yeah, I don't want to be fooled by this. I don't want to, I'm not going to play this game. You know, I know how these things can be faked and et cetera. But I was still sort of always into sort of the UFO field, into sort of sci-fi, into any kind of really sort of paranormal stuff I always loved just as a fan of it. And I had read some about Russell Targ and the early experiments that were done at Stanford Research Institute.

But I didn't really understand just how much work was done actually for the federal government, you know, using psychics to spy. And I actually got a phone call randomly from a friend who knew Russell Targ. And at the time I had just started my YouTube channel, Waking Universe TV. And I was doing a sort of a public accesse talk show where I would just invite people who were interested in sort of where science and spirit sort of coincided. because I was looking for sort of grounded ways to kind of explain all of this kind of phenomenon to myself, really. You know, I was, I was, it was really just a way of me taking classes in sort of understanding the mysteries of the world.

You know, I was already kind of on a sort of a spiritual journey, sort of looking within myself to try to just figure out who I was as a human being. I mean, it was something that was just concerning me at the time. And I've been doing a lot of reading. And then all of the sudden, here comes Russell Targ on the phone, you know, and he's pitching me a script. And it wasn't a script about remote viewing. It wasn't about his history at Stanford Research Institute. It was actually about a Native American boy that had psychic abilities and was trying to deal with that. And it was a script that he had written with someone else and was interested in

getting developed because I think he felt like he'd kind of come to the end of the road in writing books because he had written so many books over the years on ESP. And I think he felt like he had never really been able to crack into the real true mainstream public consciousness as to what this really was and sort of the immensity of the work that he had been involved with because really he had been hindered for many years by the classification of a lot of his research, a lot of the kind of the greatest things that he had done as a scientist with Hal Putoff and the rest of the team at SRI and other agencies, you know, it had been suppressed, you know, purposefully, you know, to be classified for operational use.

and he fought for years to get it declassified. He had done so. He had some meetings around Hollywood and not had any takers in sort of doing a much bigger film. And so it wasn't even really his first thought to make something about SRI. He was thinking about something totally different. But luckily, I knew who he was and I knew some of his work. And so I didn't just discount what he was saying. And we wound up talking on the phone for, I think, three hours.

This was back many years ago. And we really hit it off. And I said, you know, look, I just think that I'm happy to look at your script. I'm happy to give you notes. But I really think that the really truly important story here is your work that you did studying psychic research and the work you did for the government because it's such wonderful proof that something like ESP is really, you know, truly real. And I didn't know probably 80% of what he had done at that point.

I was just going off of sort of the public reporting at the time. And he said, well, you know, that's very interesting. He said, you know, my good friend, Ingo Swan died last year, you know, and he was one of the original remote viewers that, you know, that did all this work. And he said, I'm very concerned that a lot of the people that were involved are getting older. And, you know, they may not be here to tell this story. So, you know, so it's intriguing if you're interested in it. He says, why don't I come out to L.A. and we'll talk about it.

So he comes out with just boxes of, I mean, you know, a giant briefcase with all of these folders and stuff with photographs and, you know, documents that were marked, you know, classified and all this stuff that, that it's like literally, you know, meeting some spy in a dark alley and him giving you the microfilm, you know, and I'm starting to wonder like, oh my gosh, am I going to get in trouble for this? You know, is this something that I'm getting over my head on? Because, you know, in that first weekend, we actually did discuss the sort of pros and cons of making a movie on the subject matter because we didn't know what was being done in classified

circles today and we didn't know if we'd be stepping on anyone's toes or asking the wrong questions and I mean I think I remember after the first day of being with him you know he had shown me this picture of a crane in Soviet Siberia that one of his remote viewers Pat Price had had nailed I mean impossibly like you know there's no judging required there's no if and or but this guy drew an exact replica, you know, and several other things like that, you know, submarines and schematics and things that had been done intuitively that matched real things that had then been verified by government. And I went to bed that night and I thought, I know I knew something about this, but is this guy just like sitting at home making all of this stuff up? I mean, I mean,

like, where does this come from? It's so incredible that it's impossible that nobody else is talking about this in the mainstream. And, you know, and I had looked up some things about remote viewing and there was a lot of sort of hymming and hawing about it online and Wikipedia and places like that. And it wasn't until like the last day we were together that he got to all to him was the boring stuff, you know, like the fact that there was congressional hearings and that they had, you know, senators and, you know, House of Representatives people and, you know, cabinet officials and even a president that had worked with them on these things. And all of that had been declassified, you know, that you could actually go find that.

And that's when I really said, okay, so if it's declassified, then the only way I'm going to do this film is if we can get a plethora of witnesses. You know, I mean, to go get all of the people who were involved in this work that have not really come together in one place and told this story. because it's such an incredible story that even though I can hear you talk about it, I can read your book, I can maybe find a video from Joe McMonagall on YouTube or something like that, but those people speaking by themselves

lack the weight of history. They lack the weight of sort of one collective voice saying, yes, this really happened. And I think we really need that, and he agreed with me. So we embarked on a several-month notion of just sort of trying to reach out in contact these people and seeing who would be interested.

And I spent months going back and forth with especially like the CIA guys that were involved in this. You know, everybody really wanted to know they weren't going to be treated, you know, marginally or made fun of, you know, that this would be a serious project and that they would be taken seriously because I think that they all had been sort of burnt at one point or another in their personal careers by this. And in fact, I remember a really good friend of mine, a success. filmmaker actually who I sort of ran this by when I was first contemplating doing the project and he said I said you know I'm thinking about doing this thing on

remote viewing and you know psychics for the army and you know this kind of thing and he goes oh I know I know all about that that's a waste of time I researched that I was thinking about writing a project about that and it there was just nothing to it and you know don't do this you're going to ruin your reputation it's going to be horrible and I thought you know I'm going to point in my life I don't really care and and and and he wasn't looking at the same information that I had and and knowing Russell. So I just sort of said, you know, let's do it. So that began a very long process of sort of shooting where and just winding up with me being sort of the very primary person doing an immense amount of work because we wound up with, I think, something like, I don't know, 50 or 60 interviews with people, not all of which could even make it into the film because we just, you know, we'd gathered so much information by the end of the day.

Right. And I can only assume, you know, what was left, unfortunately, on the cutting room floor is it's hard because there's so much to all this. Like you said, I mean, this is a part of history that not many people know about. And it's almost supposed to be that way, according to the CIA and the intelligence agencies. They didn't want us knowing about this. I mean, some of it was declassified eventually. But how did. did the CIA get involved with this, Lance? How'd they get involved with Russell Targ? I know Hal Putoff is kind of a primary player in all this as well. And we all know him in the UFO field right now. He's one of our key players right now. So how did this happen? Well, you know, Russell and Hal Putoff were the co-founders of this ESP study project

at Stanford Research Institute, where this started. And ESP has been studied for, you know, many, many decades all over. the world. I mean, you know, Duke University in Princeton, you know, the Perilab, I mean, you know, they had done work that exactly replicated what SRI was doing in the 70s, but it was all sort of very small, confined, small effects size. They were doing incredibly simple experiments. There was no money in it. And where Russell and Hal put off got sort of a leg up was that they were both already physicists working for CIA and NASA and other agencies on classified projects, not having anything to do with anything paranormal, but basically with lasers. They were laser physicists.

And Russell was one of the pioneers that invented the first high-powered laser. The first 1,000-watt laser came out of his lab. And, you know, he actually had a fire brick in his lab. And he had a a bunch of government officials come in and they had told him previously that it was impossible to burn a hole through a fire brick with a laser and Russell put the laser the brick down and he burned a hole through it and then he kind of handed them the fire brick and he said would you like some fries with that he's quite a character man yeah he he really is and and um you know that was sort of their entree into the classified world because they were already trusted and especially how putoff was a company man. I mean, he was a guy who had worked for, you know, naval intelligence, and,

you know, he was in the Naval Reserve still, and, you know, he had a lot of sort of classifications already, as did Russell. They were both trusted. And the thing is, you know, first of all, Russell tried doing ESP research as far back as his time at Slovenia Lasers. He'd actually convinced them to do some ESP research, and he had created this ESP truce. And he had created this ESP training machine, which is like this big black box that has a random number generator inside, like one of the earliest computers. And, you know, the participant hits a button, depending upon where they think that the random number generator is going to go next. And he would find that people could improve their scores. And he got Sylvania to back this. And then they needed

to put out an ad for test subjects. And so he thinks they're going to put it out under some sort of guys as like, you know, we just need studies participants for an experiment, but not say for what. But they screwed up and they put out an ad saying, we need subjects for experiments in extrasensory perception and psychic abilities. And of course, the skeptics at the time just pounced on that. And there were a lot of, you know, very dogmatic, religious and scientific skeptics of this phenomenon. So what winds up happening is Sylvania as CEO gets a call from Bobby Kennedy. You know, at the time I think he was like a senator or something. And, you know, this is the Bobby Kennedy.

And calling on behalf of his constituents who had lobbied him to end this incredibly anti-religious work studying psychic abilities at Slovenia or the government was going to pull all their funding. So there went Russell's experiment there. But meanwhile, Hal Putoff, who Russell had not met yet at that point, was, doing these experiments with plant communication of all things. He was actually studying whether or not you could hook a plant up to electrodes and then basically threaten the plant with fire or other things or say loving things to the plant. And then, you know, you would get a physiological reaction. And this was stuff that Clive Baxter had done. He was kind of working with Clive and they were repeating these experiments at SRI.

And this just, a report about this just happened to be on the desk of another physicist that was working with Ingo Swan, you know, who was a well-known psychic in the New York City area. And he happened to be at a cocktail party. And he sees this document about this research on this person's desk. And he kind of laughs. And then he sends Hal in California this letter saying, you know, why are you studying plants? If you really want to know about intuitive ability, study me. You know, I'm psychic. And Hal basically just kind of goes, you know, like, well, you know, this is kind of nutty, but I'll give it a shot.

And the reason he gave it a shot was because he had read a book called Psychic Discoveries Behind the Iron Curtain, which was a big book back at the time in the 60s, reporting that many, many laboratories around the Soviet Union were actively not just studying psychic abilities, but using them. and more specifically using outbound abilities, like trying to do remote influence and PK and, you know, messing up electronics with psychic abilities and that kind of stuff. And so they were both, you know, kind of like interested in this separately. And Hal wound up going to a talk at Stanford University where Hal was working at Stanford Research Institute. It's affiliated with the college,

but it was also one of the most prestigious, you know, scientific establishments in the world at the time. And Hal gave a talk on psychic discoveries behind the Iron Curtain. And Russell basically runs and gets his ESP game out of the car and then tracks Hal down backstage to show him this ESP machine. Because he's like, oh my God, I found another kindred spirit. This guy's a laser physicist and he's into ESP too. So Hal said, you know, that's really interesting.

You know, I like this. Maybe if we could get some funding together, we could do something. So meanwhile, Russell hears about a, no, he actually gets invited to a NASA conference because he was doing lasers for NASA. And it was on speculative technologies, like new technologies. And so he decides he'll show up with his ESP game. And he gets, of all people, Warner von Braun to try his ZSP game. I don't know if you know who Warner von Braun is. Yeah, I'm very familiar.

Yeah. Wonder Von Braun was the ex-Nazi who then became head of NASA's rocket program and was really, you know, very much responsible for the Apollo Moon program. And Warner von Braun aces this game. Like out of 25, you know, attempts, he gets like all 25 right or something like that, which is like statistically, you know, not even possible. And so Juan Braun goes to the head administrator at NASA and he goes, this is incredible. You got to see this. And they wind up basically making a deal right there at this conference for NASA to provide $50,000 in seed money to create a program for NASA to look at the ESP ability of their astronauts and see if there's ways that they can increase their intuitive ability so that if something happens in space and there's no other communication and nobody knows what's going on, they can still use their intuition to try and figure out the problem. That was their rationale at the time. And so Russell goes back to Hal at SRI and he says, hey, I think I've got some funding. Let's do a program. And that started the first ESP research program at Stanford Research Institute.

This was probably circa 1973 or two, something like that. And shortly after that, Ingo, this psychic that has claimed to be the best psychic in the world and Hal has now brought out to SRI to run some tests on, he winds up perturbing this like really, really top secret magnetometer that's buried, you know, far beneath the ground and concrete to study like, you know, these tiny little fluctuations in magnetic fields and measure atomic energy and stuff like that that's far, far distant. And he actually breaks this experiment by actually getting it, getting the needle to move. And not only does he get the needle to move, but he describes,

what the magnetometer looks like, and he writes it down. And somehow, somebody in CIA hears about this. And so the next thing you know, the knock on Howell's office door in SRI, hi, we've been looking for you. He says, what do you mean? He says, we've been looking for someone credible that we can trust to basically either prove or disprove the reality of extrasensory perception and psychic abilities because we're really worried about,

like what the Soviets are doing. You know, they're doing a ton of work on this. They're spending many millions of dollars. You know, every draft age, you know, drafty into the Soviet army is given a little test to see if they are maybe, you know, sensitive to extrasensory perception. And then they're pulled into these other programs. And, you know, he says, this is like a big deal in the Soviet Union. And we think that there's absolutely nothing to this.

We think it's either propaganda or we think that it's, um, you know, just bogus to try to, like, scare us. And we want you to prove that it doesn't work. And they weren't really able to do that, which we'll get to. So, okay, so now we have the CIA is kind of overseeing the work being done at SRI. And they actually bring Putoff and Russell Targ in with a gentleman named Pat Price, who becomes kind of a really big part of your film. of the first things that they sort of worked on was the Patty Hearst kidnapping. This was, I mean,

I faintly remember this whole thing, but I had no idea that this involved remote viewing. So could you maybe run us through a little bit of that lens before we get to the next big dramatic thing that Pat Price remote viewed? Well, you know, the thing is about Pat Price. I mean, you know, SRI had a few different people that they had worked with. And Ingo was one, and Pat Price was the other. They were two of the original subjects in the program. And Kit Green, who was their sort of contract monitor, you know, was they had done a series of early experiments with Pat Price where Kit Green would go out and hide. And this was after, I think, the bigger one that you're talking about.

But anyway, Pat Price was a former police commissioner in Burbank, California. You know, he was the type of a guy who basically, if a detective had a rough case, they'd go in and they'd see Pat. And they'd talk to Pat about it. And Pat just had an intuitive knowing about sort of like what rocks to look under in order to get this case going. And sometimes they said he would go in and he would take a map of the city of Burbank. and the detective would say, you know, this car has been stolen. You know, we don't know where this car thief is. He keeps stealing cars.

Do you have any idea? And he'd say, yeah, I see a guy, you know, his heart's palpitating. You know, he's scared. It looks like he's kind of like worried about the police. And, you know, this is, I think, where you want to look. And he'd point to a location and then he'd go there and they'd probably find the guy. You know, so, you know, he was a very well known for that kind of a thing. But by that point of the Patty Hurst kidnapping, and actually even before that, you know,

the NSA break in, which was the first thing that they really did. Oh, yeah. You know, Pat, you know, just heard about this through some of the public things that SRI had done, because they had published some stuff and that got that made it into the papers and things like that. So he just asked to be a subject. And one of the really big things that they brought in on, once they had done some sort of classified work for the government that did well, you know, by now they had kind of a reputation to be able to find things. And so the Berkeley police, you know, called him and said, called Hal put off actually at SRI and said, you know, we got this kidnapping, you know, the daughter of an heiress. You know, Patty Hurst is missing. And, you know, can you help us find her? And Pat says, I mean, so Russell, I mean, Hal says, you know, I think, you know, Pat Price is available. He can do that. So Pat and Russell, you know, actually go out to the Berkeley police station. And, you know, what Russell's role in all of this was, was as what's called a monitor or an interviewer.

And if you ever played Dungeons and Dragons as a kid, did you ever play that? A little bit, yeah. Yeah. So there's always like the dungeon master. Yeah. And he's the guy that knows where everything is and the players don't know anything. And so there's this dungeon master kind of guiding you through all of the imaginary things that you're seeing and describing them for you and kind of pointing you, you know, through this. You know, that's the role of a monitor when it comes to remote viewing.

It's usually a two-person process. And that's Russell. So Russell and Hal show up at. at the police station with Russell being the monitor, Pat Price being the psychic subject. And the police are like, boy, are we happy to see you. You know, like, yeah, we've heard about you. We'd love to see what you do. And Pat Price says, just, you know, let me look at a mugbook.

You know, that's how I usually start. So he opens up a mug book. And he kind of flips through it. And he says, just, you know, let me look at your usual suspects. Who do you think could have been this person? And after flipping through it for a while, he stops and he points to one particular picture of a guy by the name of Donald LaFries. And he says, this is the guy. And that was the guy. He was the ringleader of the crew. And he also pointed to a couple of others. And he said, no, he didn't point to this one, but he said, I also hear the name Lobo. There's a guy involved. His name is Lobo. And one of LaBriz's henchmen was named Wolf. That was his name. They called him the wolf. And he said, and he said, says, you know, I'm seeing an impression of these giant water towers and a freeway.

And he kind of describes this area. And one of the police officers in the room says, you know, I kind of sounds familiar to me. I think I know where it is. And so they sent somebody out to check and they found the kidnap car right where he said. Oh, my God. And I actually spoke with one of the police officers who was involved with that. And to this day, he can't understand it. You know, he can understand it.

And it didn't make the film because by then I was already kind of done filming when we tracked him down. And I had so much other material. But, you know, yeah, they actually got a commendation from the Berkeley Police Department because many of the details, you know, they said it was a political kidnapping, you know, not for money. You know, they said it was a, you know, several details. They got like kind of the layout of the apartment correctly. But the problem was that the Berkeley police did not communicate that well to the FBI. You know, there was like sort of this inner agency rivalry going on, and so they didn't listen to the Berkeley police. And, of course, the kidnappers got away, and we all know sort of how the story went after that.

Yeah, it's a fascinating part of that case that none of us knew about, again, like using a remote viewer and having the actual police say, yeah, we still don't know how they did it, but they did it. That's amazing. But, I mean, that one, that one I could sort of, you know, I think people, the skeptics, let's say, or debunkers. could pull holes through, but this next one, Lance, this is where I was really like, okay, like there's definitely something to this. This was in 1973, the Sugar Grove incident. Could you maybe, I know this is a long one, very convoluted, but maybe sort of run us through this and what Hal and Russell took away from this entire experience? Do you enjoy true stories of the supernatural from the people who experienced it?

Well, then you might like my show, Jim Harold's Campfire. Hi, I'm Jim, and we've been doing the show since 2009. And we talk about ghosts, cryptic creatures, UFOs, head scratchers, you name it. And you tune in and you might hear a story like this one. And as he was driving home, he encountered a shadow person who seemed to be dressed like a monk. I know that sounds very strange. But it was a solid black form. And it was wearing a hooded cloak tied up.

a waste with the cloak up and it had glowing red eyes. He sees this thing coming out of a really teeny abandoned cemetery. If you haven't tuned in, I hope you'll check us out. You can find us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and wherever podcasts are heard, it's Jim Harold's Campfire, and you can find it at Jimherald.com. Thanks so much. And stay spooky. This was this was

Sort of one of the really key things that That my mind lit up on when when I first heard this as this is this is so cinematic It's just such a great Yeah Story I mean it's gonna make a great narrative film I mean I want to turn this whole thing into a you know bigger feature but but it's like you know It's like the dirty dozen with psychics you know sneaking into a secret NSA facility You know I mean it's like it really is

It's you know this was the defining thing that that really shook the entire U.S. intelligence community. Now, Sugar Grove, to give this some context, is surrounded is Sugar Grove, Virginia. And I think it's retired now as a facility. But back in the day, there was a hundred mile radius around it where it was a no radio zone. Like, you couldn't even go in there with a CB or a walkie-talkie or anything. It was so classified and it was so sensitive, that it was highly protected. But within that area, there's a lot, there's still homes and there's people that live there. And, you know, there's lots of other things going on. And as I said before, the CIA was very skeptical of the claims of what the Russians were sort of

chatting about in their own intelligence communities, what about what they were accomplishing using psychic ability. So Kit Green, who was their first sort of contract monitor in some somebody who was just really interested in this sort of subject matter. And by the way, now who is, I think, involved with to the Stars Academy and sort of the UFO subject now these days with Hal. Hal credits Kit for getting him into the Stars Academy and bringing him on board that. But back in this day, they were just young guys. And Kit was somebody who was curious about this kind of stuff.

But he thought there really wasn't anything to it. And he goes to Russell and Hal. and he says, okay, well, if you guys think there's something to this, let's try something. And he had heard that they were now doing, by this point at SRI, coordinate remote viewing. And coordinate remote viewing is where you basically just take a latitude and a longitude, and you provide those coordinates to the remote viewer, and they tell you what's there.

So he basically goes to one of his colleagues at CIA that he knows, a satellite analyst, actually. and he says, give me something that you know really well, a location, somewhere on the earth. I don't care where it is, just something that you know well. And don't tell me what it is. Just give me the coordinates and I'll pass them on. So the guy goes and comes back and he goes, here, I'm going to give you this, and they're never going to guess this because nobody knows what this is.

Okay, so Kit gives those coordinates to SRI, SRI independently gives those coordinates to Pat Price and Ingo-S-S-Wan. And keep in mind, they're not working together. Right. And they both go off. You know, Pat gives his sort of description over the phone. And then he mails in some drawings that he did. You know, Ingo does, is in like a Faraday cage at SRI and, you know, in very controlled conditions. And Pat Price by this point was basically just there on a lark.

You know, he was somebody, this is when he very first had called SRI and kind of said, you know, hey, I'd love to be a subject. And Hell didn't know what these coordinates were or anything. He was just giving them to Pat sort of just. just to see if Pat could do anything. He didn't know what was going to come of it. And it was actually the very first thing he did. And they get back these very detailed reports from both of them about, you know, very military-looking installations and missile silos and flagpoles and, you know, accordion doors, like, you know, like with big jeeps and stuff that, you know, they rolled in and out. and even like the names of like just various names of different things and you know it's and it's weird the way they do it it's like they start like high up and it's almost like Google Earth like in their imagination because the first descriptions that come in are like okay I'm 5,000 feet over a target I'm looking at forest land now I'm going in I see roads I see a town off to the left you know and then I'm going in further now I'm starting to see what looks like some sort of a military installation because I see military vehicle.

You know, now I'm actually going underground and I'm seeing, you know, filing cabinets. Now I'm sticking my head inside a filing cabinet and I'm getting the names of documents and I'm writing those down. So that's what Pat Price did. It's pretty much what Inco did, but not quite as specifically. And so they get this back and they go, well, that's interesting. We don't know if it's real or not. We just put it in an envelope, send it back to CIA in open communication through, you know, snail mail. And Kit Green gets this back in his office in Virginia.

He opens it up. And literally, it's like, okay, this is not what I expected. I mean, this is like incredibly detailed reporting on some stuff that I have no idea if it's there. So he goes back to his analyst friend and says, here you go. And the analyst friend says, well, they got it wrong because I just gave you the coordinates to my log cabin out in the woods. There's nothing, anything like this there. And when the kit was really plagued by the fact that both of the, them had gotten very similar results. So if they weren't communicating and they got similar results,

what does that mean? And so on a lark, he goes on a family trip up to, you know, nearby where he works at the CIA headquarters is this, you know, the sugar rov area. So he drives out that way. And he's going to go to his friend's cabin. And as he's driving there, you know, nearby, he looks out and there's this giant radar dish. And he's like, gee, what's that? And so he does a little investigating. He finds out it's an NSA listening post. He wouldn't even talk about this. He wasn't even sure if he could talk about this, but I know what it was. It was a CIA listening post to spy on Soviet satellites and try to pick up signals and figure out what their communications were.

So it was a highly, highly classified site. I mean, this is like the most top secret site that the NSA had, highly guarded. But he sends this off to the owners of the site. And then the next week later or something, NSA shows up at his office. FBI shows up at his office. His bosses at CIA show up his office. What are you doing sending psychics to spy on the NSA?

You know, because they got it really right. You know, like they really nailed a lot of details. And the thing that freaked them out the most was not that he got detailed descriptions of the buildings and sort of the layout and that kind of a thing. But that he was able to actually list, this is Pat Price, specifically. was able to list top secret special access projects that were going on at that time, you know, and the name of this overall facility. You know, like he was able to actually get those names correctly. And that then sent shockwaves all up and down the entire U.S. intelligence community, every agency.

You know, and I spoke to Ken Kress, who was the undercover physicist that sort of managed all of this, you know, at length about this. I spent a week with him at his house, and we talked quite a bit about this, and it haunted him for years, you know, this stuff because he couldn't understand how it worked, but he knew that there was something that was not explainable that it had happened and created this outcome. And so he talks about all of that in the film. You know, he comes out in the film actually for the first time. I mean, he's been undercover all of these years ever since, and I actually, you know, through a lot of communication with him, got him to agree to come forward. So he came forward and kind of confirmed a lot of these stories, as did Kit Green, who later became the director of life sciences for CIA. So they're both very credible. So basically, you know, Russell and Hal like get called into the principal's office.

They get called into CIA and basically like, you know, you guys got to tell us what the hell you're doing here and how you got that information. And Russell just basically said, you know, look, if you, you know, let us come and do some work with you and let us do some more research. You know, you tell us what needs to be classified and what doesn't and we'll work with you. And so they basically started funding Stanford Research Institute to do work for the federal government. And over a 20-year period, that then became several different projects and agencies that used this tool, which later on they sort of disowned and said never worked. Right. And I mean, the work of Pat Price and many others in that time that the intelligence agency was working with SRI on all this. we then get to the point where it's like Pat Price is too good to be true and they want them for

themselves. And so long, SRA at this point, can you tell us how this happened? Well, you know, Russell tells a lot of stories about going to visit Pat Price on a farm in Virginia. You know, eventually, you know, the CIA is by definition not going to trust anyone. Yeah. You know, like they think that they're constantly being, you know, potentially lied to or there's something going on if they don't understand it. So they decided that they were going to cancel SRI's contract and basically make Pat Price,

who they thought was their very best remote viewer that was the most perplexing, an agent of CIA, and sequester him on a farm and then monitor him 24 hours a day to make sure nobody was feeding him information. And then give him harder and harder tasks to do. And he did every single one of those tasks expertly. You know, they had him spying on embassies and revealing certain things about like terrorist training camps and things like that that nobody knew about. And but they would go and look and they would find it to be true. And, you know, about four months after being in CIA, he was, he died, you know, mysterious. Yeah, this mysterious death.

And I know a lot of the people in your film have varying theories on how that happened. I mean, it's crazy. You know, why would they hire a guy? and then he just all of a sudden kicks the bucket. Naturally, some people think. But could you maybe run us through a couple of those theories of what the people in your film, what they think happened to Pat Price? I mean, he even, like, predicted his own death at one point, am I correct?

Yeah, he did. He, you know, about two days before he died, you know, he was going out to see, you know, the folks at SRI, and he was going to make a stop in Vegas. And at the airport, he bought his wife a million-dollar life insurance policy. He canceled a trip to go see his son, and he kind of said this very heartfelt goodbye to his friends and family. A lot of people thought were odd. And then, yeah, and that was it. And, you know, there's Russell, I mean, I'm sorry, Hal and Kit both think that maybe the KGB did them in.

The Soviets were constantly following everything that SRI was doing. Other people think maybe it had to do with the church that he was involved with, where he had to sort of. have been possibly giving them some information that maybe he shouldn't have. Some people think the CIA did him in. I mean, there's a lot of different theories. Some people, you know, remote viewers looked at him after his death just for fun and, you know, came back saying that he was still alive and working in an underground facility somewhere. So, you know, we don't know.

I mean, it's all speculative. But it's, and the guy had a heart condition. You know, he could have died of a heart condition. I mean, we don't know. you know but the soviets do have ways of they had ways of sort of amping up in conditions that they knew that people already had and he pat claimed that he was poisoned you know um in some food that he ate uh shortly before he died to a friend so um you know yeah it could have been several things yeah there's some pretty far out ones that you mentioned the film we won't give him away

here but uh it reminded me a lot of the Jedi i won't go any further than that well you know it's A lot of people might liken this to something like men who stare at goats or some of these other movies. This movie is nothing like any of the other movies that have been done on this subject. I really think that anybody that goes into this film and watches it, even if you're skeptical, at least if you're an enlightened skeptic where you sort of are open-minded. I think that this movie is going to show you that reality is not as set as we think it is. And it's going to show you that a lot of very serious people who have done. devoted enormous amounts of their life to this, take this topic very seriously.

And so I think it's something that could really upset the apple cart of sort of the status quo of our understanding of science and even spirituality in ways. And so I'd like to think that the film really contributes to that conversation because so much of the good work that has been done has until just right now not been publicly really discussed in any real way. So this film is the first opportunity that all of these people have had collectively to kind of tell this story. So I think there's some importance to that. I think so.

Collectively is a big keyword too. I want to get to that in a little bit, the collective consciousness. But, you know, sort of wrapping up our talk here, Lance, about the movie. You mentioned also in the film, or you interview, I should say, remote viewer 0.01. This was really cool. This was a psychic soldier. and he was like the most psychic soldier that they'd ever seen. So how did this come about?

When did the military get involved with this? Well, once, see, when SRI's contract at CIA was canceled and they kind of co-opted Pat Price, that did not end the SRI involvement with the government because we think of the government as this monolithic kind of boss figure, but it's really like all of these splintered agencies and many different agendas and, you know, different kind of heads. And SRI had contacts with many different agencies. So they created a contract with Defense Intelligence Agency. And as part of that, Defense Intelligence Agency wanted to train Army volunteers to see if they could create an Army Psychic Corps.

And so they sent out a questionnaire to, I think, you know, 3,000 Army intelligence officers in Fort Meade, Maryland disguised as something else to see who might be, you know, sort of more interested in this kind of subject matter or claim to have intuitive ability and that kind of a thing. And there were certain markers they were looking for, you know, like in remote viewers. They were looking for things like people who are outgoing, people who are very balanced, you know, because you don't want the crazy psychic with this like, you know, crystal ball and turban and, you know, those were not the typical remote viewers that did the best work they found. It was people who were just really good at other things, very personable, people who were considered successful in other fields maybe and also people who had had near-death experiences,

you know, and Joe McMonigal was a Vietnam vet. You know, he was a army soldier on the ground in Vietnam. And he's the guy who claimed to have a knack for avoiding landmines and who they would put on point because he'd be able to go left instead of right and avoid that mine. And so they called him in and he had had a near-death experience as well. he got into a bar fight, I think, in Germany, and he went into a coma. And I could be wrong about the bar fight. I mean, it could be that he just simply got into an accident, you know, or something like that.

But I like to say bar fight just because I seem to remember that because it fits his personality. I could see that. Yeah. Yeah. I'm talking to film. But Joe, you know, and they whittled the 3,000 down to 30, and then the Army took the best six of those and sent them to SRI. and then Hal and Russell ran them through their paces doing remote viewing. And what they found was really anybody could sit down in the chair at SRI and exhibit some kind of ESP ability.

You know, it was very rare that someone couldn't get something, right? You know, so they found it was a lot more common than sort of people believe, and they didn't have a ton of funding. So usually they would just pull in a scientist from the next lab or something and get like wonderful results. And then that person would get kind of co-opted into their program. And Joe just happened to be their very first sort of real army subject that did become one of their absolute best. Because I think that psychic ability kind of acts as a bell curve based on sort of the evidence in the film. And some people are at the top of that curve. Some people may be down at the bottom.

Joe is definitely at the top. You know, Joe told me that these days he's retired. And when he does remote viewing, he'll do remote viewing for, you know, prospecting and for, you know, corporations looking to do product development 10 years out, you know, stuff like that. These are things that remote viewing is being used for now. And Joe basically would watch Jeopardy in the evening during the commercials, you know, he reaches over, grabs his pad, does his task for the client, puts it down and goes back to watching TV. You know, that's how good Joe was. I mean, you know, he didn't even need to go into some like huge altered state or whatever.

You know, he just, he had mastered that ability. And Joe won the Legion of Merit Award, which is the highest award the military gives for non-combatants, you know, for many, many successful missions, you know, using remote viewing to find things like down bombers, you know, hostages in Iran to find, you know, classified submarines and stuff like that. But actually a lot of what Joe also did was counterintelligence. you know, interestingly, Joe would be often tasked on U.S. targets, you know, to see if the Russians could be seeing what was going on. You know, and this was a huge concern, you know, huge concern for the military. And, you know, try to develop some kind of countermeasure to that, which was very difficult to do. I can only imagine, yeah. I mean, and you have this whole idea that we in America were poo-pooing this whole psychokinetic, psychokinesis, CSP,

while, you know, it's very possible that Russia was taking it very, very seriously. Oh, they were taking it dead seriously. I mean, they're taking it much more seriously than we were. And what's interesting is now all over the world, this has gone completely underground. You know, in the, I interviewed for the film, a Ukrainian scientist that is a parapsychologist that works in this field doing experiments. And, you know, that's the former Soviet Union. And he says that today in the former Soviet Union, Ukraine was the home of Nina Kalagana, who was one of the greatest, you know, sort of psychics in that sort of era of the Cold War. Now they don't even allow books to be sold on the subject there. You know, like they, it's verbatten for anybody to even really talk about the subject.

You know, so it's gone completely underground. Now, we have to ask, is that just because of cultural bias? Or is that because there's some agency at work saying, you know, we don't want people out there talking. about this because it works a little too well. I don't know. That's a good point. And I mean, we even have Russell Targ towards the end of your film going to a conference where people were, am I correct? They were training to a remote view and a bunch of them could actually do it. Yeah. Yeah. No, no. That was actually a big test for me because, you know, me as a documentary filmmaker, I'm a journalist. I'm not going to hide, you know, the results of what I get if I'm,

you know, spending all this time to shoot it. And it's like I'm going to report it out. And I was hoping, gee, I hope we get something good. Maybe one or two people will get this right answer. They sent Paul Smith to go hide somewhere in Vegas where this conference was. And the audience was supposed to basically psychically tune in to where he was and draw that. And I walked around from table to table with the camera and I filmed all of these things. And I start to see all of these parallels. Like people were drawing triangles.

I saw triangles again and again. I saw waterfalls again and again. I saw fish. I saw coins at the bottom of a pond. All of these things were coming up, you know, just as people were drawing them, you know, very quietly. And he came back with footage, and he played the footage on a projector in the room, and everybody kind of gasped because the target was an indoor waterfall fountain in an aquarium with a lot of fish around. And then these like triangular glass windows overhead. So so many of the audience.

I mean, I guess the staff said, like, 80% of the audience got it right. And many of them had never done it before. Right. And it sort of clears up that misconception that, like, only a certain type of person or with an ability can do this. But that's clearly not the case. And I found that really fascinating towards your end of the film, this idea that anyone can do this, you know, at the end of the day. Anyone can do this. Not everyone is going to be a virtuoso at it.

Right. And there's also such a thing as reverse sigh. You know, like, I hung out, like, one of the efforts. Extra is on my YouTube channel, Waking Universe TV, is about these gamblers in Vegas using remote viewing to play the casino in sports betting. And there's a physicist named Marty Rosenblatt, and he does this. And oftentimes people will get the exact wrong result, you know, maybe because they're scared of it or they don't believe it's going to work or they're just tuning into the wrong timeline.

I mean, I don't know what it is, but they get it wrong. And that to me is equally interesting. I mean, it's happened to me. You know, like, I mean, I've played, Russell has an ESP trainer app for free on your iPhone. You can get it. It's called ESP trainer. I've played it and gotten, like, horrible results, like, when I first started doing it. And Russell told me, well, that's because you're using your psychic abilities to get the wrong results

because you're afraid of what's going to happen to your world if you get the right one. Yeah, it's your subconscious, you know, play there for sure. Well, Lance, I mean, we could talk forever about. about the film and there's so much more to it, but I would not be doing my euphological job if I didn't ask you about UFOs, man. So, you know, sort of moving away from Russell Targ and the remote viewing project, we'll get back to it back to it in just a second here. But I want to know, have you ever yourself personally had any sort of UFO experience, encounter, citing, anything like that? Well, yeah, yeah, I have. But I'm also going to say that this is something that comes up

often through remote viewing. Joe McMonagall is on record, you know, saying that often he was asked to, I don't about often, but at times asked to remote view satellite imagery with UFOs on them, you know, to find out what they were, you know, in particular to find out how the propulsion system operated, you know, things like that, you know, there are definitely a lot of remote viewers that start to encounter extraterrestrials. And I think that if we are going to accept the fact that, you know, that. your consciousness can go anywhere, you know, and then it's not just confined to your own mind.

And then furthermore, that there's no time or space between your consciousness and what it wants to look at, other than your own imagination and intent, then we also have to say that when it comes to euphology and when it comes to sort of contact and disclosure and all these other kind of buzzwords that you hear, I think it's really up to us. You know, it's up to you and me. It's up to someone individually to basically use their imagination. imagination and reach out and make that connection, you know, and make it happen. That's just, you know, because your consciousness is probably the most powerful tool of communication that you actually have, but it's so beaten down in Western society. You know, it's so marginalized. And, you know, then frankly, when it comes to my own experiences, that's why I never talk about them. You know, I don't talk about my own sort of personal psychic experiences, my own personal UFO experiences, because if I did, I've often thought, like, well, maybe that might make me less of a credible journalist,

or it might make me, you know, more sort of out there and, you know, not taken as seriously or whatever. And I've worked for, you know, almost 20 years now in the film industry. So it can be a, you know, there's some stigma to that. But on the other hand, even in taking on this film, I finally just said to myself, you know, I don't care about what anybody else thinks. I'm doing this because I feel that this is such an important subject matter

and it's such an important part of history. It needs to be preserved, and I'm honored to be the one to do it. And so, I mean, yeah, I mean, I never talk about this stuff to anybody, but I'll tell you about it. You know, and it's crazy. You know, and I don't even, I can't even say definitively, it's a UFO, quote UFO, because I have not seen, you know, a flying saucer land on my front lawn. I have not had that kind of experience. I've had plenty of experiences through meditation, through dream time, where, you know, you feel like you get impressions and images. And later on, there's some sort of verification to that, which.

you know, could be extraterrestrial, I don't know. But there's one story in particular, which is so blow mine that it's haunted me for many years. And that's that when I was little more than a teenager, I'd had a bad breakup with a girlfriend at the time, and I was kind of going through this very sort of angry period in my life. And I find that there's two things that sort of bring out weird stuff, like paranormal stuff. And one is being very, very coherent and centered in through meditation or a dream state or just being in a good mood, or the other is being very unstable and angry and upset, you know? And in this particular instance, I had had some other weird things already happened to me, which I won't even go into here. And I decided that I was

going to go see a friend in Central California at the time where I grew up. And so I, and I had a Camero at the time. And this car is like, I mean, lowered Camaro tinted windows. This is just like the, you know, early 90s, you know, it's like a sports car and, you know, you couldn't fit five quarters underneath it. And, um, and so I drove this icy road to Central California and I was on my way back. And it was like probably three in the morning and there's like fog and there's, um, you know, um, not snowing, but very, very cold. And, uh, and I'm driving way too fast. And, and, uh, I'm driving erratically. And I wind up swinging my wheel too erratically on an icy road. and the car starts to spin.

And I mean, and it really spin. I was probably doing at least 80 miles an hour, I would say. And I was spinning on this road, which luckily there was like very light traffic. I do not recommend you try this at home. And I was actually pinned to my driver's side window. And I can feel my cheek against the glass. And all I said to myself was, oh, my God, get me out of this. I will never do anything so stupid again, please.

and the car sort of like just, you know, kept spinning, kind of slowed down. The back bumper barely touched the center cement divider between the freeways. And then it just sort of parked itself backwards at the side of the freeway. And now that alone is a miracle. You know, and you can credit that to all kinds of, you know, God, angels, guardian angels, whatever. Not immediately my first thought was a UFO. But and then as I'm sitting there and and I'm thinking to myself, okay, that was nuts of sort of a just thought to my head popped in. You know, first of all, the car started to vibrate.

And and then a thought popped into my head. The car is about to fly. Okay. And I know that's crazy, but I blacked out. And and I basically just blacked out at that point. And when I came to, and by the way, I was not hurt. I was not, I didn't hit my head, you know, nothing like that. And, and, and, uh, but when I came to, I, I, I find myself staring at this kind of a gray thing, uh, you know, and, uh, like a wall.

And I'm like, what am I looking at? And then I realized, oh, I'm looking at the headliner of my car. Okay. And then I, and then I look down in my, my, my sort of non-spilled, half full bottle of water is still in the center console open. And, and, um, and I, I'm like, where the hell am I? There's all this fog around. So I, I get out of the car and I'm standing in this clearing probably about 200 feet up and maybe a thousand feet or a thousand yards or so away from the freeway. You know, enough to where I'm looking down and there's like this line of snaking traffic. And I'm like, how the hell did I get up here? There's no way.

You know, because there was no road. There was no dirt road. We're talking about the middle of the Tahoe Pass where it's nothing but like grass and boulders and trees and nothing, you know. And I'm in a lowered Camero. Arrow. So even if I had passed out and the car had driven up this, there's no way he's going to drive up this steep hill and not like completely demolish the car. The front end was not even messed up or anything. And so I was completely stunned by that. And I kind of walked down, got on the free, walked the edge of the freeway, tried to flag somebody down. Nobody would stop. And I finally came to a call box. I called CHP. They came out. And the weird thing about the CHP was that they never. even asked me how my car got up there. They basically took me back around in my car, and they called a tow truck, and they needed

this, like, big tow truck with a flatbed and a winch to, like, bring my car down this hill, and they basically, in the process of dragging it down, destroyed the A arms, and, I mean, they had to drag it, you know, and it was like, you know, thousands of dollars of damage at that point. And I had never been able to understand what happened, you know, and, and then years later, I actually saw a TV show or something about somebody talking about dilated time. And the fact that like when you have a UFO encounter, sometimes it seems like as if time slows down. And I definitely remember having that phenomenon because I, you know, felt like it was taking a million years to drive down that road.

And even though I was, you know, driving fast, I didn't feel like I was really going anywhere. So it was a very bizarre sensation to have. Wow. And so, you know, I can't explain it. I don't know exactly what happened, you know, but it was definitely the oddest thing that ever happened to me. So, you know, happy to share it on your show. Wow. Yeah. Lance, thank you for sharing that. I know it can't be easy. I mean, my big thing is speaking to UFO witnesses. I wrote a whole book about it. I interviewed like close to 200 people for the book, narrowed it down to like maybe a little over a dozen. And I've heard so many stories like you. where there's like this Oz factor at play during a UFO event, encounter, even just like a, even the most mundane UFO sightings, this idea of time slowing down, sometimes speeding up, or just feeling like you're in this weird suspended animation. It's fascinating.

Yes, I definitely felt that. But I felt that actually all around the event, both before and after. Because there were several things. I'm not even going to the details of all of the crap that had happened. happened like that whole, you know, sort of span of about an eight-hour period. And, you know, it's things like the, the, even the CHP officers that, you know, they didn't put me in the backseat, they put me in the front. They, they did not ever ask me for ID.

I didn't have any at the time. I'd actually lost my ID, you know, and, and, you know, that's, you know, it was just so bizarre. The whole thing was so bizarre. It's like, like, I, and I had also kind of like an eerie, kind of a calm about everything, you know, because I was not like, especially freaked out. You know, I wasn't like hysterical or anything. I mean, I was just kind of like, wow, this is just a trip, you know, and it was like everything was in an altered sense of space for that whole period. And I would like

to think that, whether it was my own subconscious or a higher power or a UFO or whatever it was, I would like to think that it was acting in my best good, you know, because it was, Definitely, I could have been killed that night. Yeah. Who knows, man. It could be all of them mixed together. That's kind of where my research is heading, you know, in connecting all these really weird things, paranormal, UFO, supernatural. They might be linked.

They might be not. It might be a case-to-case basis. But it's all fascinating. And, I mean, I have to tell you, man, after watching your film, I'm just, like, obsessed with remote viewing now. I'm talking to someone right now who claims that they can teach me. So your film is making that. That happened? Is this something I should do or not do? You tell me. I want to point out a great teacher by the name of Lori Williams, who appears in our film. You know, she's the one that was teaching the class in Russian. In Russia, yeah. At the end. Yeah. And Lori Williams runs a company called Intuitive Specialists. And she has lots of remote viewing classes. And actually, for about a year, I've been working on a series of classes with Lori. She actually came out here to my studio in California. And for 13. days we shot a group of about 10 people learning how to do remote viewing, you know, who had never

done it before. And she shot, she thought three courses, beginning, advanced, and intermediate. And originally, I really did not understand just how many different things you can use remote viewing for. And by the time that class was over, I was like, wow, this is a master class in so many different ways that you can actually use remote viewing and different techniques to really clarify things so well. And it works. So, yes, I do recommend, you know, that you find an instructor you like and take it. Definitely, you can look up intuitive specialists and Lori Williams. She has got a lot of integrity, you know, and I think that that is like the most important thing when looking for someone to teach you something like this because you don't want someone who sounds a little scary or makes this sound to be really hard to do or it's going to cost you like an inordinate amount of money.

Because, I mean, I ask Russell, like Russell, how come you don't teach? He says, well, he says, I every now and then we'll do a little conference or something. He says, but I don't feel right actually trying to charge a lot of money for it because it's so easy to do. You know, I can just teach people how to do it one time. They know how to do it. They don't need me anymore. But I still think after seeing Lori at work, I actually think that that's a little bit too easy of an answer because she digs down so much into so many different, very detailed ways of being able to do this. that, you know, it's just blow mine, the kind of techniques that you can use, you know, it really is.

And all of those are, by the way, I don't get paid for this. I'm not going to be paid anything for her programs, but all of her programs soon will be available, I'm sure, on her website. We're just finishing them up. But she does classes in person and on the Internet and stuff like that. And there's other great teachers, too. There's, you know, there's Joe McMonnell does stuff at Monroe Institute. There's Paul Smith does stuff. There's Marty Rosenblatt doing his ARV.

experiments with gamblers, you know, like he'll teach you how to do that stuff easily. There's many ways to do this, but I just want to caution one thing, which is stay grounded and find a discipline. And if you're going to change your worldview, be ready for it to change and be ready for a new worldview as to how you think of the world. Because, you know, the most important thing about remote viewing is to not go crazy with it. You know, I don't mean that literally crazy. I mean, you don't make that your life, like incorporate it into your life, you know, because it's a great tool to expand your sort of intuitive ability and sort of make you a better human being and make you a more aware human being, you know, and it's the same thing that all of the mystics did. It's, you know, the yoga sutras 2,000 years ago, you know, Pat and Johnny said, you know, along the path of your enlightenment, you may find that you're able to see distant places, distant people, things, you know, amongst other things.

You talked about levitation and all this other kind of stuff. He said, but he said, don't get caught up in that. So don't, don't like get too concerned with that because those are just roadmap signposts, basically, on the path to your enlightenment, you know, and, you know, it's just part of who you are, you know. And so I think as long as you don't get bogged down in it and you don't let it overly consume you, it's a wonderful tool to have in your toolbox. And there are some really competent people out there that, that, that, you don't know,

can teach you about this. Or you can just pick up a good book. I mean, I think one of the best writers is Joe McMonigle. You know, Joe McMonagal has written some wonderful books on this subject. And then, of course, Russell's books are also wonderful from a historical perspective. You know, so, yeah, there's lots of cool stuff you can do in this area. I love it, man. I'm so happy that, like, this came into my life now, this whole concept.

But like you said, it can start to change your paradigm. So it's, you know, once that door opens, you can't close it. So I appreciate, you know, the cautionary tale of that. And just to be careful. So, yeah, you want to be careful with anything you do, you know. And it's like you don't want to take it slowly. I mean, because it is maybe not for everyone. It's for if you have an interest in it and you want to, you know, you want to do it, then that's awesome.

But you have to, you know, sort of just take it at your own pace. And more than anything else, you remain grounded. and balanced and you know you put your pants on one one side at a time you know it's like it's because it can be very world shaking i mean it was for me to see this kind of stuff uh you know firsthand um as documentary filmmaker you know it's very well-changing what do you make of all this after having done this film and worked on it for so long i mean are you are you in are you all in when it comes to like anyone can do this and that you know it's possible i think i think that for a lot of people it's a smaller effect size. I mean, I think that some people are awesome at it. You know,

I think that, you know, my wife can do it very well. You know, I think that, you know, I always strive to be an enlightened skeptic, you know, not a dogmatic one, not somebody who's just like, oh, I know that doesn't work or I know this does work. You know, I'm not a true believer, you know, but, but, and I think that it's really important that we, especially these days, keep our discernment. You know, You can't just buy something and buy a story whole cloth. It's like you really have to sort of get into it and figure out what it means to you and then take what's useful to you and then just leave the rest. Because, you know, it's too easy to say, oh, remote viewing is real.

Then every other thing that I hear must also be real about this subject or some other subject. And, you know, it's like we can't lose our discernment, you know, and our cohesion sort of as a society. We have to kind of be able to still listen to each other, you know. But at the same time, it's overwhelming that it's real. I mean, it's overwhelming that there is something really going on there that science does not understand, something that has sort of lived in the realm of the mystics, but now science is starting to catch up with. And it's intricately linked to the UFO subject because, you know, again, you know, our consciousness can go anywhere. And so it's kind of like, I'll bet you, E.T. has been trying to phone us for some time. And we're writing it off as noise or a bad dream or, you know, something else.

And we're not listening to the call, you know. And we think of an advanced society as a strictly technological society that must have, like, you know, really fast spacecraft and stuff like that. I'll bet you the most advanced extraterrestrial cultures, they don't need spaceships. They don't need anything. They can either sit at home and ring you up no matter where you are or they can just pop in it out. because because they've figured out that consciousness is the engine and that your imagination is the steering wheel. You know, the imagination, it's like if I can imagine something, if I can see a photograph of it, if I can get some coordinates that somebody else knows about, then the evidence says that I can somehow

basically open up what the Hindus would call the Akashik record, you know, which is the record of everything, and read a page about it. You know, and I don't even need the specific details of what page it's on. I have my own internal Google, you know, which is, I don't know what, you know, somewhere up in consciousness space and I'm able to pull it down. But I really hope that people will check this film out because I think that Third Eye Spies is a film that will really shake up your worldview. If you want it shaken up. And if you don't, you know, it's still a fascinating part of U.S. history that nobody really knows about in the mainstream. and all of this film is basically about word of mouth.

So if your audience likes this film, if you guys are listening to this, like it, please tell a friend. Go on our YouTube page and subscribe. And I'm putting up tons of new stuff all the time on the subject matter. You can go to third-eyspies.com. And all the links are there if you want like a DVD. It's the only place you can get it. If you want iTunes or Amazon or Google Play or whatever, it's worldwide right now.

We've been on the iTunes charts now for almost. a month in the top 10, you know, but still, even then, not that many people have seen it yet. In the grand scheme of things, it's not really that many people, you know, and so I think the more people that see this, the more it makes it actually easier, not just for the subject matter to be embraced, but I think it also affects mass consciousness. You know, it actually opens up mass consciousness and it says, you know, oh, this is easy to do. Oh, people can do this. And then it actually does make it easier for people to do it. Exactly. Exactly. One person at a time, man. I couldn't agree more. Let's open that consciousness. Lance, thank you so, so much for joining me today and somewhere in the skies.

Thank you, Ryan. It's been a real pleasure talking to you. Thank you for having me. Hopefully, we can do it again soon. That's it for this week's episode. Again, ThirdEye Spies is now available on iTunes, with hours of extensive extras to go along with the film. It's also available on Amazon, Vimeo, and across digital platforms worldwide and on demand. If you're like me and you'd like to keep it old school, DVDs and Blu-Rays are also available directly through the website, third-eyspies.com. There's also a free weekly web series called ThirdEye Spies, Declassified. I'm Lance Funga's YouTube channel. Waking Universe.

Be sure to subscribe to get exclusive bonus material from third-eye spies and so much more. If you want to hear a very special Patreon-only bonus episode relating to this week's conversation with Lance Mungia, be sure to become a Patreon subscriber today. There are many different levels with many different rewards. Help the show out, get some awesome bonus content in return. Head on over to the Patreon page and become a patron today. That's patreon.com slash somewhere skies. And now for our rundown, you can listen to all past episodes, read articles,

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