Somewhere in the Skies - LIVE from the 50th Anniversary MUFON Symposium

Episode Date: August 5, 2019

On episode 120 of SOMEWHERE IN THE SKIES, we join our on-site correspondent, Earl Grey Anderson, at the 50th Anniversary MUFON Symposium. Earl catches up with several speakers and attendees at the Los Angeles event. We hear from Paul Hynek, Greg Bishop, Kathleen Marden, Dr. Lynne Kitei, Dr. Irena Scott, Dr. George Medich, Denise Stoner, Tom Whitmore, Dr. Michael Masters, and Paul Davids. Each individual had very different things to say about their reasons for being at the Symposium, their thoughts and theories on UFOs and the unexplained, and their relationship to these deeply complex phenomena. A very special thanks to Earl for being our front-row seat to the MUFON Symposium! Guest Host Bio: Earl Grey Anderson is a musician who investigates UFOs. In music, he has worked as a guitarist, vocalist, singer, and songwriter. When it comes to UFOs, he holds several positions with the Mutual UFO Network. He is Assistant State Director for Southern California, Chief Field Investigator, and a member of MUFON’s STAR Team and Experiencer Research Team. You can find him on Facebook by CLICKING HERE The Mutual UFO Network (MUFON) is an American-based non-profit organization that investigates cases of alleged UFO sightings. It is one of the oldest and largest civilian UFO-investigative organizations in the United States. MUFON claims 3,000 members worldwide with chapters in every US state. The group maintains a number of investigators, who undergo training administered by MUFON. To learn more, visit: www.mufon.com Purchase tickets to Alien Con Dallas and use the promo code: SKIES at checkout for an exclusive discount. CLICK HERE Shop SAUCER BRAND now and use the promo code: SKIES for an exclusive discount: www.TheSaucerBrand.com Patreon: www.patreon.com/somewhereskies To watch ROSWELL: MYSTERIES DECODED for free, CLICK HERE  Website: www.somewhereintheskies.com YouTube Channel: CLICK HERE Official Store: CLICK HERE Order Ryan's Book by CLICKING HERE Twitter: @SomewhereSkies Instagram: @SomewhereSkiesPod Opening Theme Song, "Ephemeral Reign" by Per Kiilstofte SOMEWHERE IN THE SKIES is part of the eOne podcast network. To learn more, CLICK HERE SOMEWHERE IN THE SKIES is sponsored by HelloFresh. To receive 50% off your first order, use promo code: SOMEWHERE50 at checkout by visiting www.HelloFresh.ca Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/somewhere-in-the-skies. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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by becoming a patron. To contribute and to learn more, visit www.patriot.com backslash SomewhereSkies. Thank you for your support. And now on with the show. Welcome to a very special episode of Somewhere in the Skies. I'm your on-site correspondent, Earl Gray Anderson, and I'm coming to you live from the 2019 Mufon Symposium. This is Somewhere in the Skies with Brian Sprague. Welcome to Somewhere in the Skies, and you're heard that right, this is a very special episode of the show. I wasn't able to make it to Los Angeles for the 50th anniversary Mufon Symposium, but I was very fortunate to have longtime listener, Earl Gray Anderson, be our on-site someone in the sky's correspondent. Earl is not only a chief Mufon field investigator, but also the assistant state director for Southern California, and a member of Mufon's experiencer research team. I asked Earl

to grab a couple interviews while he wasn't busy being interviewed himself, and he more than pulled through. On this episode, you'll hear from many of the speakers at the event, including Paul Heinek, Greg Bishop, Dr. Irina Scott, Dr. Michael Masters, Dr. Lynn Kittai, Dr. George Medick, Kathleen Martin, Paul Davids, Denise Stoner, and Tom Whitmore. That is a long list, but I cannot wait for you to hear from all of these people. It was absolutely fascinating, and it never would happen without Earl's dedication to get in the info out about UFOs to the public. We're going to have Earl on in the very near future to talk all about some of the incredible cases he's investigated with Mufon, both in the past and a few he's currently working on.

But in the meantime, sit back and enjoy your front row seat to the 50th anniversary Mufan Symposium. This is Earl. Gray Anderson. I'm talking to Greg Bishop here, who's at the, he's not speaking at the symposium. He's just kind of hating out. But I love Radio Mysterioso and loved his writing. And anyway, how are you doing there, Greg? I'm doing good. We're not actually at the Mufon meeting. We're at a nice place right near it. Exactly. We had lunch. We got Irene. I'm here with us. Hello. There she is again. So what are you working on?

write down? I'm trying to write a book on my co-creation stuff about how much the witness contributes to a strange experience. Could you kind of go into that a little bit? I'm interested.

My idea is that when somebody sees something most people that come and talk to them are worried about, you know, what did it look like, how big was it, where did it come, what direction did it go, all these things. And my idea is we kind of And we kind of have to understand how people perceive, remember, tell stories about all these things, stuff about our physiology and our psychology before we can say that they're giving us an accurate representation of what they saw.

And it might be a case of we can never get an accurate representation in a way that you would figure a scientist would have a camera on something or a recording of something. The recording device is the human mind and physiology. And if we don't know how that works or don't consider it, then we're dealing with, I don't know about faulty data, but we're dealing with data that cannot be categorized the way that we'd want it to be. So you don't think that the human is a perfect recording device? Oh, it's not at all.

We know that for sure. I mean, that's why there's different witnesses and trials. I mean, that's why, you know, witness testimony is not airtight. It never is. You have different witnesses seeing different things. And that's just from mundane things that we know about, like robberies and things. You start talking about something that people have no reference for. Then it becomes extremely strange and a lot less exact.

And we have to deal with that. And people think that, you know, we're going to talk to this witness and find this out and put this in the database. And it's like, well, one, you know, your force thing amended speaking in a way that you want to hear it and not the way that they want to describe it. And two, you've already predetermined what's going to go in that database. I mean, you can't take a database from APRO, Mufon, Kufos, and not to mention, you know, other countries, that would be even more insane. And put these databases together because they're all different. They're all talking about different, or they're referring to the same thing, maybe, in different ways.

And so all this has to be taken into account. You can't just say, look, here we have a database, and this is what it means. No, it's everything's going through our filters. It's sort of like the monks describing an elephant, the blind monks trying to describe an elephant. They're all kind of. Yeah, kind of. Part of it.

Yeah, exactly. And they're maybe mistaking a part of something greater for the whole. Yeah. And there's so many assumptions made. And so I just, I want to try to, at least for myself, do away with assumptions, and then write about it and see what other people think. Do you have a title for the book? I don't know.

I guess it's just called the Code Creation Hypothesis. I shouldn't even be talking about it because it makes me less likely to do it. You know that? You know that? You know that I want to read that. Well, it's got a due date, so I... Okay, there you go. I hope I make the due date, but I doubt I will.

Anyway, that's what I'm working on. Fantastic. You're going to be starting up Radio Mysterio. So, again, your shows you were saying earlier... Yeah, I've got a bunch of people lined up. Wonderful. I just said they would do it. So I would, you know, I just have to follow through on it.

I just found an artist in New Zealand who's fascinating to me. And I'm going to try to get him on the show. He does paintings of people, of witnesses, but they don't look like what the witnesses looked like. He has a drawing of Paul Benowitz. It doesn't look like Paul Benowitz in the least. But it looks like somebody who would have been through what Paul Benowitz went through. Wow.

So that, to me, is the... You know, to me that actually works into areas of witness testimony and all that because he's interpreting something that we already kind of know, but he's putting it through his lens. But we know, you know, we can see what, you know, he gives it a title and you go, yeah, I can see that. There's a painting, what is it? There's a painting of Ingo Swan remote viewing the far side of the moon. It doesn't look anything like Ingo Swan, but it looks like somebody who's remote viewing the far side of the moon. Well, I want to see that. I love Ingo Swan, by the way.

The penetration. What a wonderful book. Amazing book. We were talking earlier. You recently met Jacques Valet. We were talking with him over at Contact in the Desert. What do you guys talk about? I saw him after the film, Witness of Another World. And I just, I asked him about the film, basically. It's a film about a guy, a witness in Argentina that had a sighting, a close encounter when he was 12 years old,

and it basically messed up his life. He became estranged from his family. The people in his town wouldn't talk to him anymore. The filmmaker meets him. He's living out in the middle of nowhere in Argentina by himself and having nightmares every night about what happened to him. The filmmaker came out, talked to him, and the upshot was he reintegrated with his...

He got back together with his family, reintegrated with the people in his town there, and actually kind of fixed his life. and you know the the what valet said was he said this stuff with disclosure and the government and getting things out of the government that's not the phenomenon he says this is the phenomenon what happened to this guy and how he reintegrated himself and how he was able to come to terms of what happened to him that's what we should be worried about not you know who's releasing what file or whatever and i tend to agree with it that's fascinating i love that love that. Well, thank you so much for talking with us, Greg, and I'm looking forward to your new book,

and it's just a pleasure getting to hang out with you today and having lunch. Yeah. We had hamburgers over at the, well, a local hamburger joint here, but of course, Dr. Irina got, she sat there and drank a big old vanilla milkshake. It was still a. Was it? I think it was the $5 milkshake from Pulp Fiction, you know. Yeah, I mean, that's the normal. price for a milkshake apparently now. I think so. That even seems cheap for Los Angeles.

Yeah, it does. Yep. Yep. All right. Well, thanks so much. I'm interviewing Irene Scott, Dr. Irene Scott, who is one of the keynote speakers. Hello there, Irene. Well, hello. How are you? Doing pretty good. Doing pretty well.

How have you enjoyed the symposium so far? You kept busy? And I've been very busy, and it's been very interesting. I met all kinds of people. You're selling your new book, Sacred Corridors, aren't you? Yes, I am. Wonderful, wonderful book. Tell us a little bit about what you'll be talking about tomorrow when you give your keynote speech.

What I'll be talking about is a UFO sighting that my sister and I had in Boston, Massachusetts. It was a long, complex sighting. Could you tell us maybe just the condensed version, perhaps? Yeah, I'm trying to condense it quite a bit. We were both living on the east side of the country, and we decided to go on a vacation and see the eastern states and the New England states. And so I was working in Washington, D.C. and the D.I.A. and she was taking postgraduate work at Drew University in Madison, New Jersey, which is close to New York. and I took some co-workers and drove up and picked her up, and we were going to stay in Boston that night. But it wasn't dark when we got there, and so we drove on up to New Hampshire and drove back.

And then we were leaving Boston because we couldn't find a motel. And so we were driving west, and there was this airport south of us, and we could see airplanes come out, and they were coming to the east and landing, going west, landing. We could see their regular airplane lights like their strobe lights and their red and green lights, blinking lights on their wings and everything. And there was one other light. And it wasn't anything like an airplane. It was just a white blinking light, nothing like a strobe light. And my sister kept saying this is odd. Maybe it's a UFO. And I kept saying, you're crazy. I kept saying, you're crazy. I kept saying, you know, it's a helicopter blinking its landing lights off and on.

It wasn't anything I'd ever seen before, and I've never seen a helicopter doing that. But I was, you know, in science, and I was being a skeptic, and so, you know, I told her that's what it was. And so we were arguing, and we both confessed to each other that we'd seen UFOs, which isn't something you can talk about back in those days. What year was this? It was 1968. Oh. And so we were arguing, and I was driving south, and I saw this sphere along the road in the woods. And it was transparent. You could see through it.

And it had a light on the inside, and the light was going to a spectrum of like all shades of blue and all shades of red and all shades of blue again. And it had a sort of dark band that was rotating around it. And I had no idea what it was. It was while we were seeing this other thing. And then the inside of the car turned green. Was it like a green light that flooded your car? It's just like the inside of the car was green. It wasn't, I looked all over, and I couldn't see it coming from any place,

and I looked at the sphere, and it wasn't coming from that. I couldn't see green any place. So no source of the... Yeah, I couldn't find any source at all. Wow. And, you know, you look around and you think, well, it has to have a source. And you'd think maybe it's a laser, but they didn't have lasers back in those days, you know, that people were using. And so then it stopped and we continued arguing.

And then she started screaming at me and said to stop because it was going to cross over the road. And I wasn't watching it that close. And so anyway, I pulled over because she was just screeching to her and stopped. Stop, stop. And so I pointed my hand out the window. And I was going to say, dingbat, that's a helicopter. And way off I saw a meteor. And then just immediately this thing came over the road.

And it had seven windows that were just really, really, really, really brightly lit. And a light on one in and light on the other. It went perpendicular to our line of sight. Well, we'd sent all kinds of blimps with lighted sides and things. and knew what they were and everything. And so we said, are we looking at panels? And no, we both thought we were looking toward the inside of it.

You could see the inside. And we'd seen lots of blamps by freeways because our farm had a freeway through it and blimps followed the freeway, so we were familiar with it. And anyway, so then it was going through this pattern of blinking its lights. I changed my mind.

realized she was right and I was wrong. And so I could take a perfect picture of it. It was right there, seven windows. I could get real clear just like you're standing in your yard looking at the windows. And I mean, there wasn't any fogginess and we weren't fogging mentally. We were just our normal selves. And we were questioning each other all the time. You see this, do you hear that? You know, it was soundless. And so I thought I could, I had high speed film in the camera in the car and a camera. And so I was experienced thinking. I was actually, you know, working in photography. And so I thought I would take just a miracle picture of a UFO. It's inside. And then if I can take maybe one or two and get a background, I might, you know, almost prove UFO exists. And so I was just

thrilled the pieces out of my mind. And this truck driver stopped just about the time I got my camera loaded and came up and this thing was in sight and he asked what we were doing well you don't take up a strange man and say weird things at night you know um date line wasn't on back then and stuff but you knew to avoid men at night and so we didn't say UFO or anything we just pointed and there was an airport there and like we were identifying an airplane and expecting him to see it um and so he turned he just rotated around in the opposite direction looked up just so he was just exactly looking opposite to where it was and said i don't see anything and you know i mean like if he was looking at it and said i don't see anything that would be one thing but he looked in the other direction and then he rotated back around looked at me and i knew i was in trouble here

And I was just dying to get this picture too of the thing. And then he asked again, just real sincere. And we pointed it again. And he rotated around, looked in the opposite direction, and said, I don't see anything. Then he rotated back and pointed to his head like the insane. And we didn't say UFO or anything to him. We were just acting normal. And so he went back to his truck and watched us.

And I had missed a picture. and apparently the object had just appeared someplace else while I was talking to him and I didn't notice it at all until I read my sister's write-up years and years and years later for some reason I guess I was concentrating on a film or something and so by that time it was farther away and I was I had high-speed film and I was afraid the freeway I might get lens flares so there was a hill there with a trees around it. So I ran up the hill. The top was bold. And I took pictures and I was used to taking pictures with that. I could take pictures of time exposures of stars and planes sometimes

and things. And came back and it started circling the airport. And it was going through this weird circle where it would go from south and north slowly. It would blink its lights on in two different places. Could you still see the windows at this point? No. I mean, when I had seen the windows and then when I stopped talking to the truck driver, it was so far away, there was no resolution for the windows, just one spot. And so I was just taking a picture of just a streak. I mean, that's what I thought it was. And so then it started circling the airport and in the north of the south, half circle. It would just be north and it was south and I just kind of remember it went in a half circle. It was so fast you couldn't believe it. You couldn't see it. And so anyway, it was a little bit

north of us and I was just dying to get a picture. You know, I wanted to get that picture again. And so I thought it may start going north even though it'd been going south. And so I was going to turn my car around the next intersection on the freeway. And I got on and that truck driver, that crazy insane thing, just got it. got right behind me, blazed his bright lights into my mirror, and blinded me. And I couldn't see. And I tried everything to get rid of him, changing lanes and everything. He just stayed there.

And finally, I just speed it up as fast as I could, thinking I'd get away from him and I couldn't. So then I was going to go along the left-hand side of the road, and then just when I came to an intersection, just suddenly swerve off. And I thought he wouldn't know that, but, you know, if somebody was coming forward, faster on the right-hand lane. We'd be in serious trouble, and I asked my sister, look behind. She said, you couldn't see anything. And I couldn't see because I was blinded.

But anyway, that's what I did, and we survived. I mean, I said goodbye to her and everything right before. Do you think that that was the men in black or something similar that was trying to stop you from getting a photo? At first, I thought it was something normal. And I don't now, because, you know, if you point at something and say, look there, you look in that direction. You don't look in the opposite direction. And he repeated that twice, which made me think he had something to do with a UFO. Because it was like he was telling me something.

Or, you know, if it had just been once maybe, even though it's strange, if you point, look at that. You don't look that way. And so I think he had something to do with the UFO. I don't know what. And he chased. He took chase after you guys. I mean, that's like the Stephen Spielberg. movie The Duel, right?

Yeah. Where that truck goes after that guy. And I know we've talked about this once before, Irina, that the UFO that you saw kind of had a resemblance to the UFO that Betty and Barney Hill saw. It didn't have the windows and the light on each side? Yeah. And that's an unusual shape for a UFO. Usually UFOs are flying saucer, flying saucer shaped and things like that.

Yeah. But this had windows, and most people are familiar with the picture he drew of the UFO in his book, and that was after he'd been hypnotized. But just two or three years ago, Kathleen Martin published the sketch he made immediately after they saw it. And that looked an awful lot like ours that even had seven windows just like we had with the lights on the outside and things. That's an amazing sighting, Irene. Well, I'm looking forward to hearing your presentation tomorrow. And thank you so much for recounting your experience for us.

Well, thank you. That's my pleasure. And your new book is called Sacred Corridors. You can get that through Amazon and the usual places. All right. Thank you so much, Dr. Scott. And we'll see you tomorrow when you give your presentation. Well, thank you.

It's an honor to be interviewed by. by a top UFO investigator. Oh, thank you so much. As the Krispy Chicken sandwich from 7-Eleven, people always call me loud. And I'm like, yeah, I know. I'm crispy. Did you expect me to whisper?

If you want quiet, go eat some soup and reflect. Like, I know I'm a handful. I'm bold, I'm juicy. Throw some pickles and barbecue sauce on me, and baby I'm a whole meal. And with seven rewards, I'm just $4. Quiet? No.

Crispy, saucy, and $4? Very. Only at 7-Eleven. Valley through 62326, participating stores only while supplies lastly out for full terms. I am talking with Dr. Michael Masters, so I just caught on a wonderful panel. How are you doing? I'm doing very well. Thank you.

So have you enjoyed the symposium so far? I've enjoyed it very much. Yeah, it's been a lot of great speakers, a lot of great panels and events, activities. So it's been, it's my first Mufon conference. So I've really enjoyed getting to know everybody and meeting. some great people. Great. I mean, I enjoyed hearing you on the panel that you were just on. Yeah, that was a fun one. A lot of great questions from the audience and insightful answers from the panel. And you're kind of an us from the future theory as far as a phenomenon. How did you wind up

arriving at that conclusion? I was actually really young and I looked up on the living room bookshelf and saw Whitley Striever's book Communion. When I did, I kind of had this image appear in my head. of an early hominin chimpanzee-like creature, modern human, and then this alien form. And just spent the rest of my life investigating whether there could be a phylogenetic connection. And the more I delved into it, obviously aware of my own biases in doing so. But the more I looked into it, the more I found that it helps explain a lot of the strange aspects of this phenomenon. I think it's a fascinating way of looking at the phenomenon. I mean, you know, I mean, honestly, anybody that says it's all this or it has to, yeah, you know, and I'm always really interested in, I guess Jock Valet was kind of the first guy that postulated that idea.

I love Jock. Yeah, since publishing the book, I've found so many individuals. I was fortunate to learn of Jim Penniston's encounter right before I finished the book, so I added that in because it's another sort of form of corroboration that comes from a very different place than my own research. So I was able to put that in, but since publishing, I've come across so many other people and so many works, both a fiction, nonfiction, science fiction. And what's the title of your new book? It's identified flying objects, a multidisciplinary scientific approach to the UFO phenomenon. And as you mentioned, you know, nobody has all the answers. I ended my talk last night by pointing that out.

But all I'm trying to do is combine research from physics, astronomy, anthropology, and astrobiology to build a case around. what I refer to as an extra tempestrial model that they are indeed us from the future. I mean, I've often thought, I mean, would we even recognize ourselves in the future, you know? Right. I think there is a study done where they said that if people had evolved long enough in zero-g environment, that they would look an awful lot like the grays. Low-light environment, you're going to grow huge, you know, darker eyes and have better light-gathering power. Yeah, even without thinking about what might happen between now and then, just looking at the physical changes that characterize hominine evolution up to this point, an increase in brain size, eye size, presumably, reduction in our face, a reduction and retraction of our lower facial and midfacial anatomy.

If those continued into the future, you would expect to get that quintessential alien form, just as a result of the continuation of six million-year trends. in our own evolutionary past. So, yeah, there's certainly environmental factors that could contribute, but even just looking at our evolutionary history forward into the future, you might expect to see something like a gray alien or a Nordic era with the East Asian characteristic. Wow. Just a fascinating subject. And thank you so much, Dr. Masters.

I appreciate you taking the time to just speak a little bit with us. Absolutely. You know, good speed and keep on keeping on. Thank you. I appreciate it. All right. Take care. Thank you so much.

All right, thank you. I have the honor here of talking with Dr. Lynn Kattai. How are you doing there, Lynn? I am just superb and stellar, actually. Stellar is a wonderful description. Yeah, we're so excited to finally present a youth program today. That's, and you're doing that today this afternoon. We are.

I have produced a graphic novel. Coloring Book for all ages. And we're just starting to really get out to the youth community who thirst for this knowledge. There's nothing. Nothing in our history books. So it's really important that we address and raise awareness of what's going on. And now they're so curious, too, because we're talking about the moon landing so much on TV and the Space Force and so forth.

And they're curious. And many have seen things. Yes. And they want to know what's going on. And there really isn't anything out there. want to make sure that we fill that little gap and help them learn and grow and decide for themselves. That's wonderful. And, you know, I saw that you were doing the family-oriented and you've, you know, directed at the kids a presentation. And I just thought that was just such a

wonderful idea. I mean, I have, my kids are all grown up, but I've, of course, got the grandkids now. Exactly. And just for everybody out there, I just got a copy of Lynn's graphic novel for my grandson, who's going to love it. He's very, very interested in the phenomenon, and they're growing up in a different age. Oh, it is, and it's packed with information. I tried to really get something out there. It's very unique, because not only do we address to Phoenix Lights, the adventures of Sue F.O. Field Observer and Hugh H.M.A. H.M. And we have a Disney Illustrator. We've been doing pilot programs in schools. The kids have given us feedback. We have 80 crop circles. We have word finders and mazes and cross-fart puzzles

and iconic pictures that, you know, these kids have never seen these, and it's important for adults as well. So everything is in one little volume in the graphic novel. It's a beautifully, just beautifully produced book, and, you know, it's like my grandson, his first, the first thing that was UFO-oriented that he ever saw was, you know, light in the sky was out, you know, the Travis Walton movie. Oh, right. And, of course, which is really scary. And that was one of the reasons I came forward, by the way, to allay people's fears, because the Phoenix Light there has been one. It's important for people to know not one report, credible

report, a farm threat, or abduction in over 22 years. If anything, it was just the opposite. People were in awe and wonder, curious. To this day, I saw it. people telling me that they felt blessed to have seen the Phoenix Lights phenomenon. And there's so much more to the story. There's so much myth and disinformation out there. I wanted to set the record straight. You know, it's like Governor Simonton, you know, eventually, you know, he originally, you know, went after Phoenix Lights and tried to, you know,

treat it like it was some prosaic event. But even he came forward and said that it was a spaceship, that it was a mile. Otherworldly, and that's really significant because it's amazing. There are other countries worldwide. Once you start looking into this, that are much more open to these phenomena as being otherworldly, not from Earth. And it's about time the United States got this out of the open,

addressed it, accepted, and studied it so we can find out who's driving these things, as well as move forward in our own evolution. and now, you know, just a little part of that is the Phoenix Lights book, the documentary, and now we have the graphic novel activities coloring books, so people can learn and grow and decide for themselves. Fantastic. Well, thank you so much, Dr. Ketai, and for taking the time to talk with us about your presentation and your new project, and I just wish you luck and blessings.

My pleasure. Keep looking up. Thank you very much. And I have the illustrious Mr. Paul Heinek here with me. How are you doing, Paul? Excellent, Earl. Nice to be here. I'm not going to ask you how you're enjoying the symposium so far, because I just caught you walking in the door.

He just got his hotel room here, folks. But you're going to be speaking tonight. What are you going to be talking about in your presentation? I'll be talking about the family business for Heinicks of UFOs. and growing up with that as part of the most natural part of my reality. No, we were lucky enough to have you as a guest speaker for Los Angeles Mufon about a month ago, and it was a fabulous presentation. You're going to be kind of giving the same sort of presentation.

Now, I mean, you had some really, I think my favorite part of your presentation were some of your anecdotes about you and your brother kind of getting in trouble. Could you reiterate the one story about the nitroglycerin? I think that... Oh, sure. So that came up in relation to the wonderful TV show Project Blue Book for which my brother and Joel and I serve as consultants and how there is a character named Joel in the TV show

and how that character really bears little resemblance to any of the five of us children to the point where the real Joel Heineck one day concocted nitroglycerin in the basement of our house. The glycerin fell on the floor, scooped it up with something, put it back in, and it started bubbling over,

and he thought it was going to explode. So he and his buddies ran out of his room in the basement, leaving my other brother, and my mom and I blissfully unaware in the kitchen right above, that there was a potential nitroglycerin explosion about to happen. Did your dad run in there and save the day, kind of?

No, my dad was off saving the day and saving the day with some far-off UFO exploit. Oh, my goodness. What was your dad's favorite case that he had ever worked on? I don't know if he had a favorite case, but I know that he liked

the Lonnie Zamora case in Socorro, New Mexico in 1964, and I know he liked the Father Gil case in 1959 in Papua New Guinea. And I met Father Gil, and so that's my favorite case. But those are two that stand out. Yeah, I mean, the Gil,

what a wonderful case. Do you think that that was E.T. Or was it that us from the future they saw? I mean, there was like interaction between Father Gill and the crowd. Yeah, I mean, it's one thing to say that that's a very good case that seems to demonstrate based on the multiplicity of witnesses and the credibility of Father Gil in particular that something happened as to the providence or source of the intelligence of the craft or quality. Crafts? Yeah, you got me. You're a better man than me, Earl. But it's a good one. It's a good case. What do you think your dad would feel about the state of euphology today? Do you think that you'd be happy with it or do you think you'd be disappointed that we haven't made further, more progress in the field? Yeah, it's hard to say. You know, this is a phenomenon where there always seems to be that next lab result or that next breaking case or that next bit of disclosure right around the corner.

And we're always just tantalizingly close to that next big development. So I think maybe since he's been gone for 30 years or so, he might come back and say, you guys still haven't fixed it yet? I don't know. Yeah. You know, I'm guessing you'd probably have dichotomous feelings about it. But, of course, you know, it's like with the A-Tip stuff and the Nimitz release of information. I always think that your dad would probably be really very, very happy about that.

Yeah, I mean, there's sort of an increasing tenor and seriousness of government predisclosures, perhaps, that are happening now. And one of the things I think about is, even if we had the sort of signal event of a UFO of a saucer landing on the White House lawn, in this day of fake news and deep fake videos, that might not be enough. You know, you might have a significant percentage of the population who won't believe anything that they see. How about that? So if you're the U.S. and you've got Area 51 chock full of alien bodies and multi-pronged efforts to reverse engineer

various alien technology propulsion systems and you know the secret's going to get out and you have to disclose it as Richard Dolan have with claims, then you now have to contend with maybe whatever you do won't be good enough, which is something that we really didn't have to think of even 10 years ago. Maybe that's why this information is being allowed out right now. You know, I mean, that may have something to do with it. Sure. You consider yourself a futurist.

I know you're a fan of Ray Kurzweil's work. When do you think the singularity is going to happen and what do you think it's going to entail? Do you think we're going to become our machines or computers, or do you think it's going to have a positive effect on humanity in the long run? It'll happen early to mid-morning on May 10, 2046. That's the best time range I can give you. I do believe it will happen. I do believe that the singularity,

meaning the astrophysics term borrowed to artificial intelligence, to mean the point in which artificial intelligence becomes self-aware and recursively self-improving, I do think it will happen. I don't think it'll be an extinction level event, as we see in these rather dystopian visions, like The Matrix and Terminator, et cetera. I do believe we'll merge with artificial intelligence.

The neural lace networks that Elon Musk and others are working on now are a big step in that direction where we'll, instead of having an appendix, like you're holding the phone in your hand now, we'll have these things built into us. You know, we have pacemaker, and other things that we haven't thought that sort of surrender

part of our humanity but a neural lace that can access the internet for which goes right into your optic nerve that's sort of plugging in and then when we get to the point where a la Robert Fritaz with respirocytes where we replace the human heart which is one of the big failure points in the body

with self-propelled synthetic red blood cells that deliver oxygen far more efficiently than our current red blood cells and to a multiplicity of other things en route in terms of diagnosis, diagnosis, and breaking up plaque, et cetera. A lot of people will think that that is sort of the point of no return about giving up humanity because especially in Western culture, we sort of equate the soul with the heart. Yeah. Well, maybe we've all encountered too many, you know, the old Frankenstein meme and

and maybe it's been bantered around enough. Yeah, right. What do you think of, you know, the disabled people that could be, you know, could walk or blind that could see and death that could hear? I mean, those are all very real and in close proximity to us. I mean, this is going to happen. It's going to happen in our lifetimes, I believe, maybe sooner than we think. So, well, thank you so much, Paul.

I appreciate you talking with us. It was a pleasure to honor, and good luck tonight. I'll be there. And please talk to Ryan about the agreed-upon payment. Yes, the shirt. That's right. I'm working for the same price myself. We want the Heinex shirt.

Extra large. Me too. All right, Paul. I'll see it a little bit. Pleasure, Earl. Thank you very much. Sure. They've been seen all over our planet, somewhere in the skies.

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I'm honored to be with Kathleen Martin. How are you doing, Kathleen? I'm doing well. It's a busy here. We have a good crowd this year. You're always busy. I am sometimes too busy. Yes. We did an experiencer workshop this morning. I thought it was really a very wonderful, wonderful crowd. It's just, Yeah, I mean, obviously this is the main gist of, or at least what you're best well known for. But what are you looking forward to with tomorrow? Now, tomorrow you've got a different, today it was just pretty much talking about the abduction and experiencer phenomena itself. But tomorrow you have a special topic.

And let me say more than that, it gave experiencers who wanted. to the opportunity to speak and have a supportive audience behind them, which is very, very helpful and therapeutic. Now, tomorrow, it's going to be a little bit different. It's going to be a workshop on suggestions on what to do if you want contact to end. What just like a quick example of, I actually, I mean, it's a very, a rhetorical question for me because I actually work with Kathleen here. But what are some of the methods that you use when somebody wants alien contact to end?

Well, first of all, I have to say that I can't guarantee that this is going to happen. In my new book, Extraterrestrial Contact, What to Do When You've Been Abducted, there is one chapter that is entirely devoted to that topic. There's so much information in every chapter that it's difficult for me just to sit here and list different things. But one of the very, very easy things that you can try is if you believe in a higher power, you can call out to that higher power. If you don't, you can call out to the highest intelligence and say, in the name of the highest intelligence, I command you to leave this room now or leave wherever you are. I have actually had a recent discussion with a couple who were outside at night,

just sitting together in the mountains, and this craft came down, and they sensed that something was about to happen. and he said, do not take me. I have children. Wow. And the craft actually went away. Wow. That's really interesting.

Because, you know, I mean, I'm always kind of under the impression that if they want you, they're going to get you. But that isn't always the case. That isn't. He had to go home. You know, he couldn't take a couple of hours to spend with them. He had children in bed and they were just out for a walk. And so they listened. You know, it's interesting, Kathy.

You know, I recently had a case where there was a similar scenario where this gentleman was kind of given this cosmic tour, he said. And but he had a little three-year-old daughter at home. And he told his entity, he said, stop. I have to go back and take care of my child. I can't be away from her. And he said that he was returned. He was returned home. So, you know, apparently there definitely is something to.

do this and and there you go. And they can be compassionate. They can listen. It isn't all abduction. It's all about us. Yeah. Many of them are also compassionate and will listen to the humans

that they're working with. Yes, I absolutely agree. Well, Kathy, I mean, I'm just always so proud to work with you and to have you as my friend. I'm so happy to have you on. Mufon's Experiencer Research Team. It's great.

It's my joy and my pleasure. And thank you for giving us this interview for somewhere in the skies. My pleasure. I'm really honored to have with me here both Denise Stoner and Dr. George Medich from Mufon's Experian Research Team. I work with these guys and I know them really well. So it's kind of interesting doing the interview here. But just two of the most interesting people that I know on the planet. So, hello there, George, and hello there, Denise.

Hello, Earl. So how are you guys, how's the symposium been for you so far? We had our experiencer workshop this morning, which was really wonderful and honored to be part of, actually. Those are always a good introduction to the conference because, you know, we can get experiences in a closed, environment and they can kind of let their hair down and talk about the things that are bothering them with people that are interested in, you know, in their problems and what they've experienced. So it's kind of a good way to set up the conference for us because that's, that's our main focus. We deal with the people who have dealt with non-human entities. And to get

that concentration in one area makes it a lot easier to deal with. And once they see us face to face and they're made comfortable in that room environment and realize that it's okay to speak up. And once they see the statistics that are given and how many of them there are and the commonalities between all of them, they're ready to talk to us. Yes. Dr. George, how did you get into this? How did you become interested in this phenomenon? When I retired from medicine, I was, you know, I was always intellectually concerned. So I went back to my next love, which was astronomy. And I kind of stumbled across Mufon on the Internet, actually.

And I looked and saw what they did. And I said, you know, I've always been interested in UFOs because I always thought there was something to it. So I signed up and went to a meeting, ran into John Ventry, who was a state director of Pennsylvania at the time, and signed up. And he actually put me on to Kathy, Martin, about the ERT. I wasn't really interested in the vehicles, but more interested in who was driving them.

You know, lights in the sky, to me, gets boring pretty quick. But, you know, when I'm talking to somebody who's actually been face-to-face with a being that's not from our planet, it really gets interesting for me. That's where the rubber hits the road for me. Yeah. I mean, it's, you know, the difference between hot rods and the guys that drive. the hot rods, you know? I mean, there's a life story there, whereas a vehicle is a vehicle. It's a means to get somewhere. Well, you know, we've known about UFOs, you know, for who knows how long,

and we really haven't made any progress in figuring out where they come from or what they're doing here. I figure the next step is to maybe talk to the people that are running them, and maybe they can enlighten us a little bit. But there's probably a, you know, a multi, multifactorial reason. why the different species are coming here. They probably all have their own reason for being here. But it sure like to know what it is. Yeah, yeah. Denise, I guess, do you think that this is an extraterrestrial phenomena

or a hyperdimensional or us from the future? What's your feeling in some of us? I'm not sure where they're from, but I'm an experiencer myself. And I think it's our turn to ask them questions because it appears we're not able to so far. They send us messages. They tell us what we're going to do and what's expected of us when we're on a craft.

I've seen a craft. I've seen several and been in the interior of them and taken on a tour, but I had so many questions and had no answers to give back. So I need to know, as everybody else does. You have an extraordinary experience that involved, I believe it was,

three hours of missing time? I had three hours of missing time. My husband was with us. My parents were waiting on the other end of the mountain pass. We were waiting to get across to our campsite. There was a flat area called South Park, Colorado. Somehow we were taken across that spans without any mileage showing on our car. We started out in daylight, ended up in the darkness, didn't know where we were.

it was quite frightening. We did see the lights of the craft. We did see the craft coming down to get us. It felt the car moving across the high desert. We had the speed of the car going, normal, coming down off the pass. And my husband had the mileage supposedly working on the car. Nothing showed. It was as if we were not paying attention, ended up on the other.

side of the mountains and didn't know where we were at first. The odometer didn't reflect the distance. The odometer did not reflect anything. And my parents were getting worried. There was only one road leading to where we intended to go. So we weren't lost. Wow. Where do you guys see the Experian Research Team going in the future?

What's our prime directive, our main goal? Well, our main goal is to help people that have encountered problems with their experience. That's what we do. We try to help people come to grips with what's happened to them. Where that's going to take us, I really don't know. You know, we're just here for people who are looking for help, something you can't find in the yellow pages. You know, you can't find the ERT in the yellow pages. So we're here.

And if somebody has a problem dealing with non-human entities or experiences like that, the Mufon ERT is the place to go. And how does one contact the Mufon ERT? Rhetorical question. We go on a website, the Mufon website, under Experience and Research Team, and we have a whole bunch of information on how to do it. We have a form that people can fill out, which eventually makes its way to me.

And then I distribute that form to the members of the ERT. You know, you get them. As I was saying, it was a rhetorical question. Dr. Medits, you had a past in pro baseball, by the way, didn't you? Yeah, I played Major League Baseball for a little over 10 years. It seems like a long time ago. Back when we didn't have pitch counts. I've seen photographic evidence.

This is a pretty good photo we saw of Dr. George at our last Zoom meeting. That's right. Yeah. And we need some evidence of this now. Yeah, exactly. Well, thank you so much. I'm honored that you guys sat down with me, and I'm always honored to work with you guys and be part of this wonderful,

extraordinary team. It just certainly changed my life. And I love it. I love it. Well, we're glad you joined up with us, Earl. Thank you, Doc. Yes, absolutely. Thank you, Denise. I'm honored to be talking with Tom Whitmore, who is on the board of Mufon and is field investigator from the beautiful, great Texas state of the Union.

How are you doing there, Tom? Just fine, Earl, and I've really been enjoying this symposium, and it's great to be here in Southern California, where it's close to the Pacific. Pacific Coast and things are nice and cool compared to what they're like in Texas. Have you been here before? Oh, yes. I've been here many times. We come here for symposiums. I come here for board meetings from time to time right here in Irvine, California. So I enjoy it very much.

What all do you do as a board member for Mufon? Well, the board is really referred to as a business board. So we're concerned with some of the more mundane aspects of the organization of Mufon. We don't talk about UFOs and board meetings very much. We're concerned with things like budgets, long-term planning, insurance, possible contracts, you know, with media companies, et cetera, et cetera. So it's all business, it's mostly all business related. Keeping the wheels on the bus more or less. It's a big bus.

Well, it's a big bus, and I'm proud that the board of directors for Mufon has been fairly stable over the recent years. And Mufon has been around for 50 years, and we're proud of that, of our longevity. And I see part of my function, a large part of my function as being a director is ensuring the long-term viability of the organization. Fantastic. I mean, Mufon has a long-storied history. and that you know that always touches me i i love the fact that i belong to this organization that's been around such a long long time and and you know there's just there there there there aren't really any other organizations like mufon anymore you know you used to have ag pro and this

and that and the other thing i cap but uh mufon is kind of you know and and uh what what do you think kind of sets Mufon apart from everything else, for you anyway? Well, I think one of our virtues are all is that we try to steer a middle course. We don't take extreme positions one way or the other. There are very conservative, scientifically oriented-type people in Mufon. There are also people in Mufon that have a more spiritual, more non-material orientation toward the UFO phenomenon. We try to steer a middle course, and we not only project what's going on in the UFO field by our actions as field investigators and compiling a database and so on and so forth, but we also reflect what's going on in the UFO field.

And sometimes people are happy with what we reflect, and some people aren't happy with everything that we reflect. but it's really a reflection of the totality of the UFO scene. Now, Mufon basically does three things. We run a network of field investigators. We collect siding reports, and those reports go into a database. That's the first main thing that we do. Second is that we produce a monthly journal. And thirdly, we put on these annual symposium.

So that alone keeps us busy. Yeah. And I know you guys are busy. Jan, I've hunt out in the office, and Linda Fletchner is one of my field investigators, and she works in the office. And, you know, she's sitting pretty much works 9 a.m. to 9 p.m. That's his usual hours. And, you know, Jan, the biggest cuss word he'll say is darn it or gawley sometimes. I like to think of him as Richie Cunningham all grown up with a higher intellect, of course, you know, very high intellect. Well, that's fantastic and fascinating, Tom.

And you're still working currently as an active field investigator? No, I haven't for a long time. But I put my efforts into being a board member. And personally, my personal interest in the UFO field is more government-related. I'm fascinated by the interaction between the government and the UFO field that occurred during the 1980s, which ignited the MJ12 affair. and I'm very interested in the history of the MJ12 affair. At this point, I'm 66 years old, and I've retired from full-time employment,

and I'm getting ready to move to Washington, D.C., so that I can do further research in this area, and I'm going to go visit the National Archives every day and work nine to five there on my own. Oh, goodness. So you do like heavy FOIA requests and stuff? Is that kind of your forte? I haven't yet. But my approach is going to be more directly in working in the National Archives, pulling documents out of the archives and studying those.

And also, you know, in Washington, D.C., you have the Library of Congress. And it's a hot bid. It's of an opportunity to develop contacts as well. Fantastic. You're also a musician, I've heard, and a quite good one. Well, yeah, I'm a guitarist. And like I said, Earl, you and I are exactly the same. generation. I think we both grew up listening to a lot of the same music.

Yeah. Todd Rundgren we were talking about and then yes. Yeah. Emerson, Lake and Palmer and all the poit-toity guys get out. Yeah. And I started playing guitar when I was 14. Right now I play mostly classical guitar. I call it kind of a pseudo-classical style. It has certain elements of folk, certain contemporary elements in the music, and it's original. I have at least a half an hour of original music that I want to record in a professional studio and then I'll send it to all my friends. Fantastic. Well, Tom, thank you so much for doing a little sit down with me and it was just

fascinating to hear about your work and thank you again. Okay, thank you, Earl. All right. And thanks for having me on. This is my pleasure. I love somewhere in the skies, honestly, one of my favorite, favorite podcasts. So I'm thrilled to be doing this. I'm used to being on the, you know, answering questions usually rather than asking. So it's an honor that Ryan asked me to do this. There you go. Thanks a lot, Tom. Okay. I have Mr. Paul Davids, who's about to give, he's going to be giving his presentation in just a little while. How are you doing there, Paul? I'm really enjoying the conference immensely. Fantastic. Could you give me a little synopsis of what you're going to be talking about?

Well, you know, I've spent my career in Hollywood, started on the Transformers show, the cartoons, wrote a lot of the Star Wars sequel books, and best known in the UFO world for being executive producer of Showtimes, Roswell, also known as Roswell, the UFO cover-up, the famous film with Kyle McClockland and Martin Sheen. So from the standpoint of those of us have been in the film business and have seen, the explosion of interest in science fiction, aliens, flying saucers, dominating some of the most successful movies ever made. I've gone back in time to look at what were the origins of these ideas about aliens and flying saucers finding their way into popular culture. So Mufan is promoting the scientific study of UFOs, evidence for aliens. And I think sociology comes in the field of

science. Mine is a sociological talk. So I'm talking about how did it come about that from a culture that had never heard of flying saucers, that we have massive interest today such that a movie on this theme can make billions of dollars worldwide. How did it happen? Everybody knows about now. And it happened gradually. And it happened through movies and television and magazines and comic books and even pinball machines. And people often don't think about the fact that it happened through songs and music. How many songs can you name about Flying Saucers? Because I can tell you there have been 50 popular songs about Flying Saucers. Have you ever heard Jimmy Durante sing, Let's Go UFOin? No, you haven't heard it. I don't think I think I.

I've heard that one. Okay. What about the rollicking men from Mars? I think I have heard that one. Merv Griffin singing the screaming Mimi's from Planet X. I don't think I've heard that. Okay. And what about the one about the astronaut who lands on the moon and finds 30-foot-tall women?

And the name of the song is, take me to your ladder. I'll meet your leader later. Because he can't talk to the moon women unless he's got a ladder. it even came out in Italian. Of course, we've all heard of the Purple People Leader. Yes. But, you know, with all the movies... Old friend of mine.

All the songs about the Little Space Girl and the Little Space Girl's father and the Santa Claus meets the Purple People Leader. And so there's that tradition, but above all, the tradition of science fiction. And I look at some of the early movies going into the 1950s and show how

the themes in those movies echoed all the major themes of uphology that we concentrate on today, and that would include missing time, underground bases, alien implants, genetic experiments. All of these different themes that keep recurring were present in the movies as though we were being inculcated. Do you think that was purposeful? I think that some of it was purposeful. I won't say all because some of it was done as exploitation because they could see that there was a market for it. But I did know Robert Wise, the great director of Andromeda Strain

and above all the day the earth stood still. Wow. And that was 1951. And he confided in me that in making that movie, there were people who came from Washington who had security clearances and who had reason to know, who said, Bob Wise, you don't know how close to reality your movie is. Wow.

That's probably my favorite film on the subject. 2001 and the Daily Earth stood still those two? Well, that one, the Daily Earth stood still in 1951, same year as the Howard Hawks movie, The Thing from Another World, which was like the story of Roswell transported to the Arctic, crashed flying saucer, but it's under ice. Horrifying.

Yeah, yeah, it was. But my talk concentrates on the years of 1951 up to 1977 to show the development in that time period. Why 1977? Well, not only did you have Star Wars come out for the first time that year, but you had close encounters of the third kind. You had our Voyager spacecraft with the plaque and the disc about human civilization being sent out into space for aliens. to find. We were sending porn out to the oral out.

We wonder why they come and probe us, right? I guess it's in the eyes of the beholder. We also, in 1977, had the Karen Carpenter song. Oh, wonderful. Calling occupants from interplanetary craft. Do you know the original band

that did that, the name of them? I don't, do you know it? Clot too. Clot too. Oh, they called them some clotto. They were named after, of course, the day the Earth still? Yes, Klatu was the spaceman who came with the message of warning for mankind, and Gort was his enforcer robot.

Yeah, yeah. So the thing that had to be said to Gort to call off his destructive powers was Klatu Barada Nictu. That's it. How's that for a good ending point for our conversation? I love it. I love it. Well, I can't wait to hear your... I'm definitely going to be there in the audience.

Can't wait to hear your presentation. That is Paul Davids. Also, I have to mention you gave one of my very best friends her first acting job. I'm a good friend of Denise Marcel. Isn't that wonderful? Yes, she, in the movie about her father, Roswell. Yeah, yeah. Let me just also mention to your listeners.

I've produced and directed probably around 10 movies. They may not know all the titles, but they should go looking for Jesus in India, the Life After Death Project, Marilyn Monroe Declassified, Timothy Leary's Dead. Before we say goodbye, the artist and the shaman, the sci-fi boys.

It goes on and on. Fantastic. Well, thank you very, very much, Paul, and thank you for taking time to talk a little bit, to somewhere in the sky. Thank you. That's it for this week's episode. Again, my special thanks to Earl Gray Anderson for making this episode possible. You can find him on Facebook or be sure to follow the official Mufon Twitter account at MUFON.

We're on Twitter at Somewhere Skies and Instagram at SomewhereSkies pod. New designs in the merch store right now. Represent the show in style at tepublic.com. That's T-E-E-E-Public.com and search for the Somewhere in the Sky's store. Please take a moment to subscribe, rate, and review the show on Apple Podcasts, your Android apps, or wherever you get the show. I'd certainly appreciate it, and it helps us gain visibility and find new listeners. Thank you in advance. Thank you also this week to the E1 Podcast Network, KGRA Radio, Rogue Planet, and my sincere thanks goes out to you for listening. I'll see you here next week, and remember, keep your feet on the ground, but never stop searching. Somewhere in the skies. Somewhere in the skies is produced by Third Kind Productions in association with the Entertainment One Podcast Network.

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