Somewhere in the Skies - Luis Elizondo and Sean Cahill: The Next Chapter

Episode Date: January 18, 2021

On episode 196 of SOMEWHERE IN THE SKIES, we are joined by first-time guests, Luis Elizondo and Sean Cahill. In 2017, the New York Times published a story that exposed a highly secretive Pentagon unit that studied UFOs. It was known as AATIP, The Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program. It was directed by a man named Luis Elizondo, a former Special Agent and senior counterintelligence officer for the Department of Defense. After leaving the program, Elizondo helped facilitate the release of three videos taken by Navy pilots of unidentified aerial objects, which were officially released by the Department of Defense and acknowledged as genuine unknown aerial phenomena. One of the cases Elizondo investigated while in the Pentagon and one of the videos he would subsequently help release, was from an event known as the Nimitz UFO incident. For several days in November 2004, a Navy missile cruiser sailing around 100 miles off the coast of southern California detected strange radar signals emanating from an object. The Navy then deployed fighter jets to catch a closer glimpse and one succeeded in recording a video of what is now known as the Tic Tac UFO. Dozens witnessed the UFO activity that day. And one of those witnesses was Chief Master-at-Arms, Sean Cahill. Today, we speak to both Luis Elizondo and Sean Cahill about where they've been, what they've learned, and where they're going next. Full video interview also available by CLICKING HERE Follow Luis Elizondo on Twitter: @LueElizondo  Follow Sean Cahill on Twitter: @mintyhyperspace  Patreon: www.patreon.com/somewhereskies Website: www.somewhereintheskies.com YouTube Channel: CLICK HERE Official Store: CLICK HERE Order Ryan's Book by CLICKING HERE Twitter: @SomewhereSkies Instagram: @SomewhereSkiesPod Watch Mysteries Decoded for free at www.CWseed.com Episode edited by Jane Palomera Moore Opening Theme Song, "Ephemeral Reign" by Per Kiilstofte SOMEWHERE IN THE SKIES is part of the eOne podcast network. To learn more, CLICK HERE Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/somewhere-in-the-skies. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In 2017, the New York Times published a story that exposed a highly secretive Pentagon unit that studied UFOs. It was known as ATIP, the Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program. It was directed by a man named Luis Elizondo. Elizondo was a former special agent and senior counterintelligence officer for the Department of Defense. After leaving the program, Elizondo helped facilitate the release of three videos taken by Navy pilots of unidentified aerial objects, which were officially released by the Department of Defense and acknowledged as genuine, unknown aerial phenomena. One of those cases, Elizondo investigated while in the Pentagon, and one of the videos he would subsequently help release was from an event known as the Nimitz. its UFO incident.

For several days in November of 2004, a Navy missile cruiser sailing around 100 miles off the coast of Southern California detected strange radar signals emanating from an object in the sky. The signals were erratic and didn't seem to match those given off by known aircraft. The Navy then deployed fighter jets to catch a closer glimpse and one succeeded in recording a video of what is now known as the Tic Tac UFO. Countless officers witnessed the UFO activity that day, and one of those witnesses was Chief Petty Officer and Chief Master at Arms, Sean Cahill.

Today, we speak to both Luis Elizondo and Sean Cahill. This is Somewhere in the Skies, the next chapter. This is Somewhere in the Skies. Welcome everyone to Somewhere in the Skies. And this has been an interview a really long time in the making. And it even got better in the last couple of days. So I'm not going to waste any time. We have a ton of listener questions I want to get to. So right now for the first time ever, two first time guests to someone in the skies. I have Lou Elizondo and Sean Cahill. Gentlemen, thank you so much for joining me today. Morning, Ryan. Thanks a lot. Appreciate the opportunity. Well, let's not waste any time, guys. I mean, the fact that you're in a room together, that's going to be a very obvious question that I think a lot of listeners are going to want to know. We will get there. But let's just, let's go right into it.

I don't want to assume that all my viewers and listeners know who all my guests are. So if each of you could just give like a brief rundown of who you are, what you do, Lou, would you mind starting with your military background and how you got involved with ATIP? Yeah, obviously had a long career with the United States government, primarily in the world of national security, spent a little time in uniform in the United States Army and then was kind of pulled away and recruited into some special activities. I spent the good portion of my earlier career in Latin America area of operation, chasing drug dealers and performing. performing counterinsurgency operations. And then kind of moved around a little bit. And after 9-11 was focused primarily on counterterrorism operations

and counter espionage. I was a trained special agent, counterintelligence special agent. Worked a lot of joint investigations with a lot of great folks and a lot of great organizations. And in 2008, I was asked to be part based upon my counterintelligence skills, be part of a program that at the time was very, wasn't very well known at all. It was called the Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program,

which now I guess more people are familiar with as ATIP. And in 2010, I was responsible. I took over that program. Let me caveat when I say took over it, we had some tremendous fine men and women working that program. And if anybody's ever worked with me before, they know I run a very flat organization. Because I was the most senior guy, I was obviously the guy in charge, but it was really a team effort.

And I want to make sure that's clear. I think a lot of people think that, oh, you know, you sit in a big chair and you just direct traffic. That's not at all how this worked. We were a team for the beginning. And until the day I resigned my position in 2017 out of protest. It was a very difficult decision for me. I was working for the time for Secretary Jim Mattis, who was in my opinion. opinion and still is a war hero. This is an individual I had the honor and privilege to serve with

in combat. And, you know, I was part of a bureaucracy that wouldn't allow me to report certain information up to the top brass. And as a result, I subsequently reside in 2017. And then from then on, I've been engaged in this, in this effort in a quasi-private role as a private citizen. And unfortunately, I still have my security clearance, so I have to be careful what I say. Obviously, I can't discuss anything classified. But in a nutshell, there you go. That's kind of who I am. I'm also a Gemini and I like long walks on the beach.

Favorite color? Black. I knew it. I knew it. I just, I knew it. All right, Sean, give it to us, brother. I know you guys met and you were both on, obviously, on identity. identified on the History Channel, and you guys got to go to Guadalupe Island, but give us the precursor

to all of that. Your time in the Navy and what you were involved in in 2004, if you don't mind. Sure. As it stands right now, I've been retired for about five years from the United States Navy. I retired as a chief master at arms. At the time of the Ticktack incident in 2004, I was the chief master at arms of the USS Princeton. That equates to being the chief law enforcement officer on board. An interesting caveat to that was I was also standing watch on the bridge as a conning officer and junior officer of the deck to help my department head fill a hole that he had. It's not normally a position that a law enforcement officer on board a ship usually has to has to fill. So it was unusual to have somebody like me in that place and in that position at that

time. We're all pretty much familiar with the Tick-Tac incident. If you want to go into that more whether we can, but my background is an anti-terrorism, law enforcement investigations, including vehicular accidents, aircraft accidents and things like that. So upon meeting Lou, we hit it off and beyond unidentified, we kept in touch since and have kind of a forged out friendship that has led to a little bit more than just beers and jokes. You know, I think it's important that when people understand, you know, kind of, kind of how we got together. It's not uncommon that people with military and or law enforcement experience, you know, you tend to gravitate towards each other because of the common experiences you share throughout your career.

And, you know, at some case, it can be a little bit isolating because, you know, there's not a whole lot of people that you can talk to about those type of things. So when you find them, you know, you have this instant bond almost that there's this camaraderie that you share with. your brothers and sisters who wore a uniform, whether it's a blue uniform, a green uniform, or white uniform, it doesn't really matter. Uniform's a uniform. You serve, you serve. And, you know, that, for us, we, it's funny because I don't want to speak on behalf of Sean, of course, but we have fundamentally very different personalities, yet we have the same mission. And a lot of people, you know, will often ask, well, you know, you guys, you guys seem so opposite. And we've always looked at that as a strength, because we approach things.

from fundamentally different perspectives. And that's a good thing. People will often, where I'm looking at things, you know, very, very analytically and conclusively, Sean's on a little bit different journey. And I'll let Sean, you know, he can explain to you what his journey is. But we both, but we're both on the same path, if that makes sense. And I think there's a lot of goodness in that.

And you find that in this community. This is one thing I tell people about social media in the UFO Twitter world. You know, we can all have different opinions and different perspectives and different approaches. But when you put all those together, you have a very, very formidable force, and an influential force that is now playing out as we speak. You see the movement we've had in the last three years,

and a lot of that is due to this unified effort of this, you know, rag-tag band we call UFO Twitter or UAP research, you know, enclave or whatever we want to give it. But it's real and it's alive and it's breathing and it's growing and it's making a difference. And I mean, I think, you're right. I think there's an intimacy that's involved with, you know, with the military and you guys sort of banding together. And here in the UFO world of people experience the weirdest stuff that they can't explain together. And that's something you'll always share. So I completely understand how even if you are opposites and your approaches or your methods or even your belief systems, how that can build a bond that, like, Nothing can be broken after that.

I mean, it's the same for me and a lot of why I got into this topic. I've made some of the most amazing friends through this who will challenge you along the way and even change your belief sometimes. But I guess since I have both of you here, you did investigate the area where the Tick-Tac event happened. And I'd like to know, besides that investigation that you two went on there, where you were able to finally speak to civilians, Lou, which I think is also an integral part of the work you're doing now. Could you kind of walk us through? Okay, so let's take the TikTok event. What would an at-tip version of that investigation look like versus what you were able to do after that with Sean and a lot of other people? What would that look like from atyp to now?

Yeah, I think the atyp approach would be your typical, I hate to use a word sterile, but sterile government approach to something. I've always said, just the fax ma'am kind of guy. That has always been my approach. And you're only really looking at under Title X authorities, the people that we could talk to were military personnel. Now what Sean have I and I have been able to do,

now that we are civilians, we can talk to a whole bunch of other, quote, unquote, trained observers. that are not military, not law enforcement, not government affiliated to get additional information that while in ATIP we weren't able to do. So what do I mean by other trained observers? Well, Sean and I had the honor and privilege of speaking with a lot of the local fishermen in the area. And these are individuals who have lived in these waters for not only their entire life, but for generations. And if there is an expert on the ocean at that, you know, concerning that area, it is a local fisherman, probably even more so than, then DOD military personnel, yeah, we have the technology,

but these folks in order to survive need to really read the ocean. They need to understand it, have an intimate relationship with the ocean. And they know the difference between you. We look into water and we say, that's a sharp. They look into water and say, actually, that's a six-foot placid versus a five-foot hammerhead versus an eight-foot great white that's on a migration pattern of XYZ. And, you know, by the way, they hang out here at this day on these particular months. they are experts in their own right.

They have to for survival. They have to understand, you know, how the fishing migration works and other boats on the ocean and whatnot. So when you get a chance to talk to these individuals and you're describing to you the same thing that are being described by trained military personnel, but they're describing it from a perspective of, you know, as a fisherman, as somebody who knows the waters, you get another perspective that you don't necessarily get when you're talking to, let's say, a maybe petty chief or someone like that. It's not necessarily better or worse. It's just another data point that you can overlay.

And, you know, you might find yourself learning a thing or two. I'll turn it over to Sean because I know Sean's got a really good perspective on this. Yeah, absolutely. I know a lot of your home. Lou uses it as well. I use it when I'm trying to discuss the fact that this is an unknown. and an unknown can possibly represent a threat. But it's also a good metaphor for how in touch we are with our surroundings and our environment.

Many of us spend, especially in the last year, spent a lot of time within our homes. If you walk through a room in your home, you know if your furniture is moved, you know if things are changed, even if pictures are slightly off kilter. So a lot of people don't necessarily understand what a trained observer is, but you're a trained observer in your own home environment. And these fishermen and military personnel live in a very, dynamic environment, home environment. And so their ability to recall and and build a picture that you can see for an investigation is at a very high level because they are, they have all of these

vectors coming in at all times due to safety and other things like that. In your home, you're the master. You know. So they're the master of these dynamic environments. I agree wholeheartedly. And it's been very helpful to have those different perspectives. Absolutely. And I mean, I'll give you a small example with me. I went to investigate a case out in Michigan over Lake Superior. And, you know, I spent so much time there with the primary witness and trying to guess and theorize about what it could be. And, you know, his other buddy, a local fisherman that was there was like, well, there's this ship that passes every day through this channel. Maybe we should get in touch with them. They were there during the event. event. And that just, that never even, you know, came into my mind. Oh, my God, yeah. Like, let's go to the people who that is their home on the water. So, you know, we got in touch with the ship. They observed what the anomaly was, the phenomena. And we took it from there. So I think you guys are right. I think there's a, it's good to know that the work can continue after the official investigation by, by the government.

more on a personal level with you guys. I'd love to know if you're willing to share, Lou, what is your family, your friends, your colleagues? What do they think about what you did, what you're doing now? And same with you, Sean. Like, how did that event in 2004 affect your life with your, whether it's friends, significant others? I love hearing the human story to all this.

So whoever wants to go first, if you're willing to share. I'm going to let Sean go first. I really kind of suck at giving my own personal perspectives. You know, Sean's a lot better at it than I am. So I'm going to hear what he has to say. I think I know what he's going to say, but I'll let him go first. And maybe I'll have the courage to share with you some of it. It's been a hyperbolic journey from the day that the New York Times article came out.

And when I first saw Lou, walk out on the stage and then to see him walk down the fear and shake hands with him. to today. And I feel like I'm finally kind of coming back to ground. My feet are on the ground again. And I'm down to earth with the process. So I have some cleanup to do over the last couple of years. So you might have found me at a point where I might have blamed other people within my sphere for how they felt or or what they saw. But I've received a great deal of love and support across the board.

I've received very little negativity from people. From my side of the family, so to speak, it's been hard for them to accept because it has come with some personality changes. But those are also inherent to me retiring from the military and overcoming and dealing with post-traumatic stress and anxiety that stemmed from a career that might have been counterintuitive to the person that I am at heart that was still. important enough to me for me to do. You got me feeling a little emotional right now, and I'm that guy who has no problem showing that. But it's not easy to translate these experiences into rational ways of expression for people who have not had experience in that realm. So it's very important to that I don't alienate anyone any further. I've cracked a couple of people's eggs with some

ideas and I feel like in retrospect that was a irresponsible to to to add a UFO event to a transformative experience of leaving the military I can only imagine the layers that that added to everything you experienced Sean so I I completely um I respect that that you're willing to be so out there with your feelings because you know we we we always assume here in the civilian world that you guys are just so stoic and strategic and you never show emotion. That's what a true soldier is. But I think it's amazing throughout these last few years, as we've gotten to know the both of you, whether it's on television or in interviews, to see that human side because it plays such a big role in all of this. So yeah, Lou, is there anything you want to add to that on the

human side of what you're doing? You know, for people who know me, uh, I mean, look, let's face it, I literally live in nowhere, Wyoming in the middle of nowhere. And that's by choice. You know, I often tell people it's, I love humanity. It's humans I don't particularly like. You know, I've spent a career seeing really the bad side of individuals. And it's been a very tough journey because at least when you're in the government, you're protected by that government apparatus. when you're outside, you know, you're a fair game for anybody out there who wants to take a shot at you.

And, you know, you're always trying to take the moral high road. You know, you try to lead by action and not words. You know, we're all human. We all fail sometimes. That's the reality of life. You asked me in the beginning what my family thought about this. And, you know, I'm very blessed. My family supported me on this journey.

I don't know anybody else who would have because. I first of all, if I was in their shoes, I would have said, hell no. You're not leaving a great career to go do this just to have a conversation with the American people when 99% of them are going to think you're crazy. You know, they'll never understand or appreciate what you've been through to have, to get to the point where you can have this conversation. You know, let's face it, a lot of people are armchair quarterbacks. It's easy to sit back in your easy chair and get on a keyboard and tell the world what you think about something. it's another thing to put your keyboard down, stand up, get your ass off the couch, and actually do something about it.

And, you know, risk everything. You're everything that you've ever worked for, your credibility, your reputation, your retirement, your clearance. I mean, it's, I'm not saying there's other people that wouldn't do it because a lot of people did do it, just like Sean and others. So I just would tell people up front that, you know, if you, if you think it's easy, it's, it's not easy. lot of things I would recommend you get involved with that are a lot easier than this. I guess that'd be my perspective. Yeah. Well, I mean, you know, coming from experience too, and no, I'm not military, but as a quote

unquote journalist, I was told for years, like, don't do this, man. Like, what are you doing? Like, you're going to totally ruin. Right, right. And I think what's changed, and it's because of the work that you two are doing, you have vindicated so much for us out there that have been screaming from the rooftops for years. Like something's going on. And I'm not saying it's one thing or the other alien, interdimensional, time travels, whatever. Like that's a journey we're going to be taking probably for the rest of

our lives of trying to uncover that. But I mean, for Sean, what you did for so many military people to empower them to come forward, I remember when your show aired, I had a Navy servicemen reach up who had five triangular UFO sightings over a naval air station and he never reported it because the first time he tried he was told stop drinking and dude I mean that was it for me the minute that guy came to me and was

like this happened you're the first person I'm telling like you've already made a difference so I have to commend you guys on that it's very humbling I left out something that's very easy to overlook because they're so close to me. My wife and my children have always been, they've lifted me up, they've supported me, they support me right now.

And that made it easy for me. So I don't want to gloss over that. I really appreciate that sentiment. It's not easy. It wasn't easy then. I've been called crazy by people I love, just for having been witness to something. something. So if what we're doing and the risks that we're willing to take are able to help other people heal and other people to come forward, then that means everything to me. Being able

to communicate your emotions and your feelings in a manner that doesn't have to hurt someone else leads to a reduction of harm and a reduction of stress and a reduction of trauma. And I don't want to see more trauma brought to this subject. We've had enough muddy waters. We've had enough explosive of egos and long-term, pardon me, but histrionics that need to be put to bed. We need more integrity. And I intend to help provide that if I'm able. And I know Luis does. He's not going to promote himself.

So I'll tell you right now that he's a team. Don't listen to what I want to say. Don't listen to him. He is a team member. He believes in the pack. He believes in the team. He refuses to let me even put him one inch higher than myself on any kind of pedestal. He won't even let me lay a carpet down in front of him to kind of step up on because the guy is so team-oriented.

So he's an empowering force in this community, and I want to introduce him to people. I want to introduce Lou people. So I look at it this way. This is a team effort, and the only reason why we are able to collectively succeed is because we're all doing this together. We all have a role. It's like a tool bag, right? you don't use a hammer if you need a screw driver and you don't use a screw driver to do a hammer's job. You know, we all have a role.

We all have our strengths and our weaknesses. And we need everybody on the boat. Everybody. That includes everybody out there, your audience that's listening to this, that includes you. Because this is a topic that involves all of us. And no one owns the narrative. No one has the answer. And I think that's been a challenge we've been faced with for the last decades, in fact, because people have sold themselves out.

They started on a journey very nobly and then wound up getting caught up with the, I guess, the notion of fame or importance or status or stature. And they wind up selling themselves out. They wind up selling you out. They wind up selling your audience out because they go down this preconceived. notion this narrative and begin to realize, hey, I can make a buck off this. And, you know, I think that's, that's dangerous. Now, do I necessarily blame them? You know, it happens to a lot of people. It's quite human trait. Yeah, it's a human trait, you know, absolute power corrupts, absolutely. So it's important for, for me to make sure everyone knows they're on the journey with us.

We're all on the boat together, and we all have an oar for which we can row. And, you know, might be wearing a bright purple jacket while I'm doing it, but I'm still rowing the boat like everybody else. That's all. And everybody has just as much important role to play as myself and Sean and you and everybody. And I think that for me is why we've succeeded. You know, a lot of people you look at say, well, UFO Twitter really doesn't do much. Actually, well, they write Congress. Actually, they email the people in the media and the press saying it's okay to have this conversation. where people don't realize what composes this, this, this motley crew we call UFO Twitter. You know, it's very formidable.

You have very powerful business people that are involved in this little enclave. You have very senior government officials that are hiding their identities under pseudos. But make no mistake, they're reading this every day because they're trying to get a pulse, a heartbeat on the sentiment of people about this topic, right? You have people in the media that are watching this, this UFO Twitter that are part of it. I mean, this is, I'm not saying this has never happened before, but I don't recall a time where you have had a grassroots movement, social media movement like this. It has had so much influence on the big picture. And this is an international community. It's not just people who speak English.

It's not just people here in America. You have everybody from around the world in Ireland, the UK, and Italy, in Japan, and India, and everywhere. the whole world is part of this. And to me, look, I've made a living off of working with a teams, with winning teams. And I said in the very beginning, your success or failure is dependent upon you being able to have a winning team. Man, we've got the dream team. That's exactly what we've got on our hands. And it's making a big difference.

Right. Well, hey, I think you either just, Lou and Sean, you just boosted a lot of egos. Or you got a lot of people paranoid. Either one, I think is. I got to tell you, based on interacting with these folks a lot, I think we just empowered a lot of hearts. Absolutely. That's a really good way.

These people we're dealing with have integrity. Our community, you know, they want, they're not looking, they're not looking to go back where we were. They're looking to go ahead to where we want to be together. Right. Absolutely. I couldn't agree more. Well, you did mention teamwork.

I have never received this many listener questions as when I announced that Lou you are going to be on and Sean. So I'd love to run through some of these with you guys if you don't mind. And this comes from a community of very guarded people who have been, you know, had their hearts broken so many times in this field for so long. So some of these might be a lot more brutal than my forgiving approach to interviews. So Lou, you said, ask me anything, brother. So let's just go down the list here. Rob on Twitter asked, Lou, did you leave TTSA on good terms? And do you still believe in their mission?

And do you plan on still collaborating with these guys? What can you tell us in that sector of all this? TTSA and I remain really good friends. You've got some incredible people there. But let's not forget, you know, Hal Poodov and Tom and Jim and all these other folks. really help the conversation start. And they really, I believe they have their hearts in the right place. But, you know, my, my expertise, I've never been an entertainment guy. I believe in what we call infotainment, which is if you can provide information in an entertaining way, but it's factual,

I'm great with that. And I'd like to be to be helpful in that endeavor. But pure entertainment, which by the way brings a lot of good revenue to companies, right? Let's face it. You know, if you've got a bunch of investors and you owe them a return on investment, you have to find those business practices that return, you know, money back to the investors. And entertainment is one of those areas where you can make a pretty sizable profit if you do it right. And so without speaking for TTSA, TTSA has never made it a secret that they are focusing on the entertainment. You can look at their intellectual property and realize that, you know, they're heavy in that area. And that's not a bad thing because it helps socialize a conversation.

That's just not my area of expertise. My contributions, you know, allow me. I think we've accomplished our goal like we did with History Channel. That the decision not to continue with the History Channel was a joint decision by all of us. We weren't canceled. You know, a lot of people think, oh, you guys are canceled. Actually, we weren't. The show actually did pretty well.

But, you know, we had accomplished our goal with that particular venue. And the same thing with TTSA. Look, you know, the battlefield is constantly evolving. And you constantly have to lift and shift your assets on the battlefield in order to achieve the mission. And a battlefield is never static. It's always a dynamic situation. And you have to be able to react to,

the battle space. I mean, this is, this is the world I come from. This is like any other military or intelligence campaign. And of course, people are going to read each of that. See, I told you it's a campaign. Please don't, don't read too much what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that this has to be a well-choreographed, well-coordinated effort. And if you rest, you'd get too comfortable sitting on your laurels, then you, you may fail in the mission. And I don't ever want to, to fail in this mission is too important. So I've decided to take some of my, I still talk to those guys. I love my friends at TTSA. We actually talk all the time and I've still helped them out. Of course I will. I love these guys and gals that are in the organization. And I think they're going to do a lot

of good. I think they can do a lot of good. They have done a lot of good. They have done a lot of good. But I think my skill sets are just better used in a different capacity. And you know, you have to, sometimes you have to divide to conquer, if that makes sense. And you have to take different teams on the battlefield and put them in different places to apply pressure in the right areas. You can't just, you know, like the British learned a long time ago, you can't just march your entire army in rank and file and, you know, expect to win a battle. Battle has evolved over the decades and centuries. So you have to evolve your tactics and develop new strategies as the battlefield is evolving, if that makes sense. And you spike the ball.

I mean, you and Chris Mellon went in guns blazing and just look at what was accomplished in the past few years from a government side of all this. And of course, Tom was extremely transparent from the start that a huge part of this was going to be entertainment. So we get that. And that equation works. But, you know, again, you can't expect a hammer to do a screwdriver's job and vice versa. We're all a tool in this. And Tom is a very specific tool just like I am just like. Sean is just like you aren't everybody else to get the job accomplished.

So, you know, that would be my perspective anyways. What's up, guys, Ryan Sprag here. And I'm just dropping in to remind you about our Patreon campaign. Somewhere in the Skies is always free to consume, but it's not free to create. So if you want to help the show on a monthly basis, we have tons of rewards for you in return, including shoutouts on the show and website, bonus content and episodes, and free merge. Want to be my guest or pick a topic for the show? You can do that too.

So if you'd like to learn more and to help support the show, visit patreon.com slash somewhere skies. Thank you and keep looking up. I'm glad you cleared that up because I know a lot of people want to know the drama behind all of it, but hey, business is business and strategy is strategy. So I have faith that you're all making these decisions for a reason to progress this issue and this topic. I'm not a drama guy, Ryan. I got to tell you.

We're not drama people. We're mission-focused people. I don't have time for drama. If that's what people are interested in, then they can go tune into. into something else, but I'm not about artificial drama, manufacture drama. We've got enough challenges on our hands to have to to involve ourselves in that he said, she said stuff. Absolutely, brother. No time for it. Well, let's talk about something a little dramatic

and a lot of people want to know this. What are your guys' thoughts on the entire Bob Lazzar affair? I didn't think this would come up, but it is. There seems to be a huge disconnect between what this individual is claimed in the past and what atyp is looking at. And there's such a gray area in between. If the government is looking at fleer videos of a blurry UFO, and then you have a guy claiming he's worked on reverse engineered technology from extraterrestrials, like, where do these things meet? So yeah, whoever wants to comment on that?

That's a good question. I think it's an opportunity for us to really examine what we expect. to data mine from history and what we can really triangulate together. I don't know Bob, and I don't know the folks that work with him, and I don't mean to be silly when I say I don't know what happened for Bob. I've always found him to be a very cogent and intelligent individual. He tells an incredibly interesting story that involves a lot of things that I just don't have any experience or enough evidence to bring the bear to it.

So for me, it's an anecdotal experience. And that has value, but I can't make the donuts with that. It's just no offense to Mr. Lizarre, but it is a story without a triangulation of evidentiary value. Anything to add to that, Lou? No, ditto. I don't know Mr. Lizar from anybody else. I know tangentially his story, but really, at A-Tip, we weren't concerned with it because there's nothing we could do with it. You know, we were focused on the here and now.

What is it impacting our military operational areas and our equities and our assets in real time? You know, people always say, well, why do we, how can you not look at the past information? And I've said this before and I know it irritates people. But, you know, in a quarter of law, that doesn't matter. Because if you don't have the quantifiable and qualifiable data to back it up, then it's useless. It's just that. It's an anecdote. and it's not overly helpful when you're trying to get senior decision makers in the Department of Defense and the intelligence community to commit resources, authorities, and assets to do something.

You know, I can't just say, yeah, because he said it. It's just like me when I came out and people were like, well, who the heck is this guy? You know, he's got no evidence. Well, you have to bring evidence. You have to, you have to show the evidence. And in this particular case, you know, I've never seen any evidence. But truth be told, you know, in the government, we were very, very focused on the here and now. So I don't want to disparage anybody.

I really don't have an opinion. People say, oh, is it good, is it bad? I don't have any, because I don't have any information. To me, it's no different than someone off the street coming up and saying, hey, Lou, I saw something interesting yesterday. I'll listen. I could riff off 10 ideas for you, but I'm not going to do that. And the reason that I'm not going to is because my imagination based around Mr. Lizar's story, if I were to do that, that would inform people who don't move their chest and checker pieces too much farther forward

and want other people to give them answers. And I don't have answers for it. I don't have other people's answers for them. I agree with that. I agree with Sean wholeheartedly. Well, here Sarah on Twitter asks, we keep hearing that the general public will have a hard time accepting or understanding in the phenomenon if when disclosure happens. So from both of your point of views, what are some particular examples of what might upset the public? And why do officials seem to get worried about it?

I think that's another one of those areas that we have to be very carefully. If I were to, if I were to lay out everything that I thought could go wrong, how many people would be focused on what could go right? We've seen, I will, I won't completely avoid some of the big There are people who are concerned about their worldview when it comes to their religion, their personal moral view, their worldview of history in the past. Those things are things that we need the 8 billion perspectives of to come up with the proper reading of this. It's not up to me or any other individual or group to define these things. Whatever we're experiencing together is quite elusive. As a whole, this is something that requires more eyes, more study,

And as we get closer possibly to having more consensus together, then I think that we can start coming to some conclusions together. But right now there are so many rifts not only within the data, but within the communities of who's willing to speak to whom, who's willing to accept data from home. There are folks that lock me and Lou out of their worldview and their integrity view because they believe we represent a system that to them has done them wrong. Right.

And so, therefore, they demonize us immediately and we can't work together anymore. And we have data that I think they desire probably or observations. And we desire their observations and data so that we can come to a proper conclusion, not a compartmentalized or partisan conclusion. I think, you know, I'll echo what Shon. said, and I'll also add that you can take any issue du jour, right? Let's take COVID, for example, and this horrible global pandemic we're dealing with. And this is a very serious topic. And even that topic often polarizes people that doesn't unite people, right? And so we have to be very

cautious. If there's anything that I think we're seeing it, where we, people say, is there any information that that can scare people or cause a divide? Well, yes, but it can also use. unite. And we're seeing that. We have to be very careful because, you know, we're not trying to weave necessarily a threat narrative. But I also don't want to, you know, weave a narrative of a false sense of security. I think that's equally as dangerous. And I think we have to be very careful how we collect and how we preserve and how we present the facts or the evidence in this case. and you know anytime you have a conversation

whether it's about religion, politics, or anything else, you know, you're going to get some division. And this topic is certainly very, very, very personally and politically charged. It depends on where you sit on the fence and it depends on, you know, whose team you're going to be on. And for me, I reject the entire notion of teams. I think it's ridiculous. You know, I think we should all be working.

together for the truth. One team. It's not an inescapable idea to have one team if we're honest with each other. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, again, that's why I'm into this topic of UFOs, because you can literally relate it to anything. Religion, politics, economy, psychology, soft science, heart science, what have you. Like this topic, this issue that you two have decided to pursue could change everything. And I honestly believe that, will happen someday. When, I don't know. Let me offer this up, because people keep saying, when are we going to have disclosure? Yes, please. This year, you just had the Department of Defense say that UAP's unidentified aerial phenomenon, not unidentified drones, not identified aircraft,

phenomenon, okay, are real and that we're videoing them to the point where we have established under the Deputy Secretary of Defense an official and formal UAP, not UAS, UAP task force. If you don't want a bigger indicator that the government is finally willing to play in this sphere, in this arena, I don't know how to get through to you. I can't. There's nothing I can do that convince people. I would say, look, you're living through disclosure now. It's happening.

You keep waiting for this magic tripwire to occur. look back and it's already happened. It just happened. And it's continuing to occur. I talk to a lot of people who after hearing something similar to that want to jump up and down and say, what about this incident? What about that incident? So I'd be happy to sit here and say, well, I'm not a government spokesperson, but I'd be

happy to say, we've been investigating this for 70 years on not. And that fact isn't a fact to the known public. That's correct. not an understood fact that for all intents and purposes, the investigation has never ended, did not end, and is ongoing. Now, I'm not a spokesperson for that, but that's as obvious to me as my own hand in front of my face. And so once we start getting those data points out as known to the majority of people,

the stigma is just going to melt away, that holy S moment that some of us have is is powerful and it's long lasting too. So we need to be careful of that. People who have thought this might be real for their entire lives, one's confronted with the fact that this is real, period, full stop. It's a very sobering experience that has a lot of tangential consequences. Yeah, absolutely. I think we have to keep in mind, like the public at large doesn't read UFO books every day. They're not go into UFO websites. So even the small thing of a New York Times article saying off-world vehicle is going to, like, blow people's minds, whereas someone like me is like, yeah, man, they've been doing that for 70 plus years, you know? Well, let's, you mentioned the UAP task force, Lou.

I would love if you could share anything with us. Are you involved? Are they talking to you? I mean, you worked for the Pentagon. done. And I understand you left for a certain reason, and I completely understand your reason for that. But look, it's circling back now. It seems like they want to get involved. So are they using your five observables? Are they reaching out to you? These leaked reports that we saw. What are your thoughts on all of that? Yeah, give us your thoughts on UAP Task Force, if you don't mind.

They are some of the finest human beings. I've had her, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, ever had the privilege to know. I can't speak on behalf of the task force. And frankly, any relationship I may or may not have at this point, I'm going to keep personal. A lot of people in this arena like to tout their connections because it gives them some sort of statute or status within the community. I'm not that guy. I frankly, excuse my language. I don't give a shit what you think about me. I would never would have done this job if if if if if I did. Um, you know, I knew the heat and flack I'd be taking. Um, you know, from an intelligence perspective, you always want to do things in a coordinated manner. Um, I'm not a kiss and tell kind of guy.

I'm not going to talk about who I know and what my contacts are. Uh, the, the UFO community is chalkful of people like that. Frankly, most of them are liars. So I have no interest in that. I think, I think if you want to know what kind of person I am, look for the deeds and less my words, watch watch my actions, you know, and if I disappoint you, then okay, then, then, you know, sorry. But I'm going to politely sidestep that question because, you know, I think there's enough people out there know what I'm trying to do, who I'm working with, who I'm talking to. I don't need to reveal any of my of my contacts and who they may be. I understand. This is a long game. I think people have to understand disclosure in any form, big or small is a process.

And there's a reason that you do that. And I completely understand that. Well, sort of playing off of that, Lou, I have to ask, This is another big one if you're willing to say anything on it. In an interview, you were asked if there was debris in the possession of the U.S. military or government. And your answer? You think the U.S. government has debris from a UFO in its possession right now? Unfortunately, Tucker, I really have to be careful of my NDA.

I really can't go into a lot more detail than that. Okay. But simply put, yes. So is there anything you're willing to share in terms of, are we talking fragments? Is this something Crata is doing? Are we talking like an intact craft? I know that's a big loaded question, but is there anything you can clarify on that? I'm going to have to politely just, I will restate for the record what I said,

that it is my belief that we, the United States government, is in possession of, of material, and I'll leave it at that. I will not elaborate on that. I don't want to do anything to compromise any existing efforts, if those efforts are ongoing. You know, I've said before, we need to give people a lot of space right now. The U.S. government is coming to grips with this. They have been cooperating in the disclosure process, I think, a lot more than anybody would have expected in just three years. And I think we need to have patience with that. You know, I don't think we need to kick him in the teeth right now. I think we, I think we need to put a hand out and a hand on her shoulder and give them a pat on the back and say, hey, you know, good job. I know it's tough,

you know, but we appreciate what you're doing. It took a lot of courage for people in the Senate and Congress folks and senior executives in the executive department to all admit that this is real. to furthermore be proactive and try to figure something out. And even more, have a report to Congress in 180 days. I mean, do you think the world is watching? Of course they are. I mean, that's, we've got to give them some space, man. Let's give them some room to breathe.

Let's stop swarming them and say, okay, look, you know, we know you've got to do something. And we're going to back off a little bit and let you give you time to try to figure this out. That's my perspective. Let's move back to Catalina for a second, if you guys don't mind. Gabby from Tijuana asks, was there ever any contact with Mexican government officials regarding the Nimitz incident? As a Baja resident, I can say that this area is known as a hotspot of sorts. And to your knowledge, has the Mexican government collaborated in any way regarding this specific event? Anything you guys can share on that?

So when Sean and I went down there, we actually went a few times down to Mexico. And unfortunately, in the TV show, you just see kind of like the one time. But we were down there a few times. So we did some reconnaissance and we talked to some people and we talked to all sorts of people from, you know, fishermen and private citizens to law enforcement and governmental personnel. Sometimes the people in the government don't necessarily want to be on camera for obvious reasons, right? sometimes they're talking to you in an unofficial capacity and it can get in trouble. So we respect that.

We protect anybody's identity who wants to be protected. If you want to provide information in a confidential manner and not expose who you are, then we honor that. I mean, that's kind of like you in the media, right? You have a confidential source and you don't want to violate that trust. I will speak for Sean. I'll tell you that we cast a very wide net. We talk to a lot of people. and what most people don't realize is for the 10 witnesses you might see on the show in one episode,

we actually conducted 50 interviews with 50 different people. And most of them never make the cutting room floor. It's just because you have too much information. You can't squeeze in a 45-minute show, including, you know, of course, advertisements, 10 hours worth of interviews. And for us, I think for me, certainly that's the most frustrating because we don't get to decide from the editorial perspective what makes and what doesn't. I'll tell you that there's times

where there have been interviews that Sean and I will look to each other and be like, how did that not make it in the show? That was one of the best interviews with the most compelling data. But, you know, there's a bit of an art form there. And ultimately, you know, the editors get paid to make those editorial decisions

based upon content, based upon length, you know, based upon a lot of things. And so, you know, certainly for me, it was a learning experience, but I'll let Sean take that question over. At home, I have 50 pages of notes. I have gigabytes of video and photographic data from those missions.

We call missions. We're mission-oriented. We're ex-military. We're not afraid to talk that way. So pardon me if I overuse some of our acronyms and phrases. But when I'm on mission, that investigation is mine. I own it. It's not Luz investigation.

It's not anyone else's. It's not history channels. So my investigation, you know, we, it's how do I put it? we're not messing around. We're not making a TV show. There are cameras that are with us that are documenting an ongoing investigation and process of trying to bring new data out from a place that it's never been released from. And if we can't get that data out into the daylight, then perhaps we're going to be able to replicate that data. And there's a lot of people out there working on new sensor suites.

and optical systems to assist us, because even if we are able to replicate all that data, this is going on here and now for all of us. This isn't just happening to a handful of people. So any evidence that we can gather in any form and any fashion is I'm all for that. Well, I guess more of a philosophical question to kind of wrap things up here, guys. There's a lot of talk about Ryan asks this, of Lou and Sean from Twitter. There's a lot of talk about technology

and our progress trajectory playing a vital role in the phenomenon. As someone who works with AI and in tech, what would you to advise thought leaders in Silicon Valley be wary of and why when dealing with this topic? Charlottance. Bullshitters. People who say that they have an amazing secret

that they want to share with them. It's going to change the world. That's the first thing I would have people look out for because I have parted me again for being slightly aggressive, but the amount of the screen that I've had to put between myself and people who want to monetize my knowledge or my experience for their benefit and not for the greater benefit of humanity or the public gain. It's really gotten in the way sometimes of getting the job done. So I would ask people to maintain evidentiary value at all cost, maintain openness and records and not give into conspiracy theory, urban myth and legend and whispers. We're doing this in the open, period. We're doing it in daylight. This is, it's not going to get anywhere otherwise.

Totally. I get that. Well, let's talk about, I guess, the UFOs or the UAPs in terms of the five observables, Lou, that you guys came up with and everything. It seems that we never see the same UAP twice. Like, it's very rare. We try to put things in boxes or patterns, but it seems that perception plays a huge role in all of this, obviously. But with each sighting, the craft seems to be unique. So Richard wants to know on Twitter,

does this imply that the phenomenon isn't as simple as being coming from one place? Or, yeah, what are your guys' thoughts on that? More on a philosophical level, I guess. Why are all UAP snowflakes, I guess? Sure. Well, but at the end of the day, a snowflake is still a snowflake. Is it not? It's still bound by the same laws of physics and how crystals form.

So in one case, we can say, yeah, they're separate distinct and they seem to be individuals. And then another case, that's why we have the five observables. The five observables are nothing new. You can go back to the reporting back to the 1940s and you can see those observables. They just never put those observables in a comprehensive category like we do in intelligence to explain the performance characteristics. That was probably one of the greater contributions to ATIP at the time that we were able to apply using an intelligence lens, apply these commonalities.

Okay, so yeah, you can say that the physical objects may or may not look the same, but most of them perform very similar in those matters. They all will have one to several of those display some of those observable characteristics of the five observables. But, you know, very few things in life, you can take an airplane and compare that. a biplane to an F-16. They're both airplanes. They both use the same physics, but they look fundamentally entirely different.

They perform differently in some cases. Human beings. We're all human, yet we look different, you know. Sean's a six-foot-two good-looking guy, and I'm not. You know, so there are individual characteristics that I think, you know, you can go out on any highway today and look at a car. and you can see a four by four pickup truck sitting next to a sports car, and they look fundamentally different, they sound different, yet they still abide by the same physics.

They have four wheels and they have tires and they have alternators and they have water pumps. So I don't want to hypothesize too much. There are some theories. I don't think they're mature enough yet to share on a broad to a broad audience because I think more data is necessary. And I'm careful. One thing people notice,

I'm very, very careful to not offer my personal thoughts on a lot of things because I don't ever want people to misconstrue a personal opinion with a fact that we have collected. I think a lot of people make that mistake. They will overlay their own personal view on something and what is a belief now becomes a fact. And I want to make sure that never.

make that mistake. I've made mistakes before, and it's because we're human. And those mistakes are usually result of me allowing my analytic bias and overlay to influence my, my, if you will, analysis of the data. And I really, really want to avoid that. I really try to have a lot of self-discipline in that area because it can be destructive if we're not careful. Sean, what do you think? I try to tell my friends to figure out what you want this to be. Spend time, sit down, use your imagination, bring your ego and your wants into it and figure out exactly how you want this to look 10 years from now. Wrap it up nice and tight and put it up on the shell and don't look at it anymore. Because until we remove our bias from this, we're not going

to know what it is. I often use the metaphor of a coffee cup sitting in the middle of a gymnasium. This doesn't have any graphics or anything on it, but there's a stain on this side. And you would have hundreds of people filling those seats in the gymnasium, and this coffee cup would be in the center. And there would be a great portion of that crowd that would never know there was a stain on the other side if they hadn't communicated with the people in other parts of the room. So as you say, perspective is everything with this. We don't have enough data yet.

If we were to ask what's powering that Toyota over there, We can't tell by looking at it. If we ask the motive of the driver of the semi-truck, we're not sure what his motive is. Or even his destination, correct? So I think it's best that we try to take our own experience, ratchet it up a couple of notches, use our imagination and speculate for ourselves. But at the end of the day, don't identify or get tied up with any of this because it does seem to be a morphic phenomenon that doesn't hold still long enough for you. you'd identify it. And it's not self-identifying as of right now. That's such a good point, man. I think, you know, a lot of us got into this field of study

in research for personal reasons. And as much as we'd like to think it's an altruistic journey that we want the truth for all of humanity. Yeah, of course, there are individuals out there who want that. And I think everyone should have a piece of that out there. But we're all in it because we want to know. We're given this one chance in these bodies or this consciousness or what have you to figure shit out while we're here. So why not, you know, try to find those answers for you. And that might sound selfish. But at the end of the day, like, we are in, all we can control is ourselves in this world. You can believe what you want to believe at the end of the day. And if I'm matured not to want

too hard, you might get the answers you're looking for. Yeah. Absolutely. All right. Well, wrapping things up, gentlemen. Lou, you said in the past, you want things to go global with this topic. We do look at it from a very Western perspective, especially here in America. And all my international listeners are always craving that. They're like, yo, we got stuff going on over here that would blow your guys' minds other than Roswell and Chicago O'Hare. So what can you give us in terms of that guys? What comes next? What's the next chapter in I guess each of your individual journeys for all of this. Well, I think it's safe to say that we are well into a good smooth shift into second gear.

Now, a lot of people say, what the heck does that mean? Well, again, I'm a car guy, kind of a gearhead. So it just simply means in a manual transmission, you're going from first gear, start in neutral, not going anywhere, to now going into first gear. Well, now I think we're going into second gear. And second gear, you know, first gear was making this conversation palatable from a media perspective, from a governmental perspective, from a civilian perspective, right? And now you've got military eyewitnesses coming out of the woodworks. They've all put their credibility on the line. You've got reporting going to where it needs to go. You have policies being made. You have the establishment of a task force. You have Congress being briefed. Government's being briefed. And the government is now finally involved, like the way it should be. And by the way, involved in an open. way. So that's huge. Now, second gear is doing exactly what we have done and now taking it to the global stage, going going to the world and working in a way where other governments are doing the

same. We just saw Japan come online and enter into an intelligence and information sharing agreement with the U.S. government on UAP technology. But there's a lot of other governments that want to do the same. You know, maybe there is, without giving away too much, maybe there's an international body that would want to sponsor some sort of international endeavor, right, across a planet. And there's only a few of those if you, you know, you know what those organizations are that can pull it off. Because I think this is a global conversation.

We've always thought, we've always thought that, that we've always said that. So why not do it? Why not bring the conversation globally and have the world provide their perspectives? because at the end of the day, you know, we may learn a thing or two, talking to our brothers and sisters in South America and Latin America and in Europe and in Asia and India. And yes, China and even Russia. You know, maybe we can put politics aside for just a few short moments and have a conversation that really involves humanity at this point

and not just individual countries. So I'm not going to go much further into that. Because obviously we do have a very well thought out blueprint and plan. Most people realize we don't do things haphazardly, at least most people realize that by now for sure, hopefully. That we're very deliberate. And, you know, we mean what we say. We're in this to make a difference and to make a change in the way we've been looking at this topic for so long. I'm going to shut up now. Let Sean finish that up.

I love it. I love it. We've had an interesting week together. Let me put it that way. We've been able to solidify some aspects of our relationship that we've been looking forward to. You're looking at two people that we're not going to stop. It doesn't matter where the issue takes us. It doesn't matter which one of us runs ahead, goes lateral, brings on other team members. We're not quitting. We're going to be working together. And if one of us can't move forward, the other one's going to pick the ball up and run. And we're looking for more folks that can handle that kind of mission, I guess, that are willing to step up and say, yeah, we have something we want to do and we're not going to quit until we're done, period.

I think you're going to see this sphere of individuals that we're involved with continue to expand and grow. There's people that we talk to behind the scenes that at some point may become public. You know, we're not static. We're trying to evolve with the battle space. You know, Sean and I work very well together. We've got a lot of other people that are behind the scenes that we work very well with. You know, you're having a conversation with just two of us, but there's a whole lot more people that are involved. And I think probably in the future, some of those individuals are going to come to light.

You'll see that. You know, folks like Chris Melon, which everybody knows who's an amazing human being. But there's a lot of other people. I feel like I'm crowd surfing with geniuses. That's awesome. Excluding me. I'm not one of those guys. Everyone plays their part, though.

And, you know, like, I think it's awesome that, like, when you look at the UFO community, you know, which is a subculture like any other one, there are some bright minds there. We're not talking, like, tinfoil hat wearing. people who said they've met a million races of aliens. Like we're talking some of the brightest individuals, scientists, technologists, military, intelligence coming together. So I know there's a lot going on behind the scenes with both of you, with this endeavor, with this sort of journey. So I guess to kind of wrap it up, is there anywhere that viewers and listeners can go

to reach out to you guys if they feel like they could help in this, this pursuit. Well, Luis and I are both on Twitter. I believe Lou is at Lou Elizondo. Is that correct? Yep. And I'm at Minty HyperSpace. I also have a website that archives my previous interviews and such for people that are wondering

about the background because I don't often rehash things. And that's the same Mintyhyperspace.com. But I'm always willing to interact. And I know Lou, though he's a lot more busy than I am, he interacts as much as he can. And by the way, we do read each post. I know people will ask themselves, well, they're never going to read this. Actually, we do.

A lot of times we don't have the time necessary to provide a comment, and I'm not one that's just going to put a haphazard comment. You know, if someone asks me a sincere question, I want to be able to explain it. And sometimes I get long-winded just because I want to be thorough. I want to be comprehensive. I don't want to give somebody just says yes or no answer because I think if they took the time to ask a question, And they deserve the time to get a thoughtful answer. And so that's my greatest frustration with social media is that I don't have the time necessary to address each and individual everybody's questions.

But for anybody who knows me, I read them all. And I think they're all very valuable. And what I try to do is over the weeks and months following that, I try to answer a lot of those people's questions in a podcast like this, where if somebody, five, six people have the same question, then I'll try to work it into a narrative during a podcast so I can answer their question. I may not be able to, yeah, do it on social media, on Twitter, type it out, but at least I've addressed it, you know,

in like an interview like this. Right. And I think we certainly appreciate that, that you guys are willing to be so open and transparent with us. Because, you know, I think when to the stars first came around and we learned about atyp and everything. I think the UFO community felt a little like we were getting left behind. Like we weren't going to be a part of the discussion.

But you've made it very clear that this is a process and you did what you had to do when you had to do it. And now you're going on all these shows and talking to us. So I certainly appreciate that. I know a lot of my listeners do. We covered maybe 12 questions of 300 something. So I'd love to get you guys back on at some point. But yeah, we really only scratched the surface.

But I want to thank you both for your time. I know you're running on fumes at this point. So please go do what you've got to do. But just know that I personally, I'm in your corner. I'm ready to fight for what you guys are doing. I know there's a lot of people out there that think, Lou, you know, you're just here to disinformed. You're working with the intelligence to do this and that.

But, man, I've never, I've never. seen that from you. I got a gut feeling. Your intentions are there. And I can just hear it. I can hear it in the passion that you... I mean, dude, if I would be the most hated man on the planet, if I were doing this, and it turns out I was some sort of some sort of sci-op or disinformation operation, I would be the most hated person on the planet. You know, I think my military record speaks for itself. I've never done anything to deceive the American public. We deceived the enemy a lot. You know, that was our job. But we never did that with the American public, and it's a commitment. You don't, you don't do that thing, you know, to the American taxpayer.

That's, that's, we, we protect the American taxpayer. We don't hurt them. But, you know, hopefully, again, through action, not words, people will begin to realize, and I'm not a threat. What I'm a threat to is status quo. That I will tell you, I'm very much a threat to. And that's caused some problems for me in the past, especially with, with the U.S. government. But no, I don't think the community has anything to worry about me. But then again, you know, they've got to decide for themselves. I'll address the elephant in the room. The day I met Lou, as soon as we got our microphone packs off, the first thing I said to him was,

tell me we're the good guys. Are we the good guys? And I made, I was very serious about finding out that this was not someone else coming out of government with a couple of details that they were going to try to pad their purse with. And I put Lou through hell proving that to me. That's my perspective. But he at no point did his integrity ever waver. So I'm fully committed to this effort. For me, it starts with my friendship with him.

But that's a stepping off point for me to commit myself to something for the remainder of my life, frankly. Well, I have to thank both of you guys for taking the risks you have to get us to this point because it is, I honestly believe this is a turning point for this topic, this issue. Everyone can feel it. And it has a lot to do with what you guys have done. So from the bottom of my heart, for someone who's been doing this since I was 13 years old, thank you. Thank you for what you're doing. It's, again, a team effort. We can't do what we do if you're not doing what you do and you can't do what you do if your audience doesn't do what they do. So again, this is really a

Tim Mepert, and thank you for everything, and thank you for your time today. Somewhere in the Skies is produced by Third Kind Productions in association with the Entertainment One Podcast Network.