Somewhere in the Skies - Marie D. Jones: Mind Wars, Time Prompts, and UFOs

Episode Date: January 1, 2018

On episode 37 of SOMEWHERE IN THE SKIES, Ryan speaks with author, Marie D. Jones. They discuss her extensive resume in writing about UFOs, the paranormal, metaphysics, and new science. They also dive deep into her research into mind control, time prompts, the déjà vu enigma, and much more. A perfect guest to ring in the new year and ask new questions in and out of the UFO arena. Happy 2018 and thank you for all your continued support! Guest Bio: Marie D. Jones is a best-selling author of non-fiction and fiction, and a screenwriter/producer with her own company, Where’s Lucy? Productions. She has appeared on television and on radio all over the world, and has hundreds of credits writing for magazines, guest blogs, reviews, short stories, online articles and gift books. She has lectured widely on the paranormal, unknown anomalies, cutting edge science, metaphysics and human consciousness. To learn more, visit: www.MarieDJones.com   Patreon: www.patreon.com/somewhereskies Official Store: CLICK HERE Website: www.somewhereintheskies.com Order Ryan's Book by CLICKING HERE Twitter: @SomewhereSkies Instagram: @SomewhereSkiesPod Opening Theme Song, "Ephemeral Reign" by Per Kiilstofte SOMEWHERE IN THE SKIES is produced by Third Kind Productions, in association with eOne Entertainment.   Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/somewhere-in-the-skies. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Warning, if you like your UFO literature to confirm what you already know, this is not the book for you. From White Crow Books comes a brand new collection of essays. 14 authors. One goal. To shatter the UFO topic and pick up the pieces in a whole new light. Compiled and edited by Robbie Graham with a foreword by Professor Diana Walsh Pazilka. UFOs reframing the debate is a cold, hard slap in the face for uphology, delivered with love.

UFOs reframing the debate. Available now in paperback and e-book on Amazon and at Barnes & Noble, the book depository, and the iBookstore. For a complete list of contributors and to learn more, visit robbie graham.uk. This is Somewhere in the Skies with Ryan Sprigg. Welcome to Somewhere in the Skies. I'm your host, Ryan Sprick. I want to wish each and every one of you a very happy new year. I hope your resolutions this 2018 turn out to be successful and rewarding.

For the show, my resolution. is to bring you more content and more guests that you may have never heard from before. I strive to make someone this guys different from every other UFO or paranormal podcast out there. And with your help, I can make that happen, both in quality and quantity. To my Patreon subscribers, thank you so much for your monthly support. More bonus content and even bigger rewards are coming your way this year. And I can't wait to share those with you very soon. To learn more and to become a patron, visit patreon.com backslash summer skies.

On today's show, I thought we'd start the new year with a bag. I am speaking with prolific author and screenwriter Marie D. Jones. We talk in-depth about her books, which cover many topics such as mind control, time-prompt phenomenon, the deja vu ennegema, and so much more. And of course, we cover UFOs, naturally. So, without further ado, let's celebrate 2,000. with this jam-packed interview with Marie D. Jones. Can you tell us where your interest, sort of in the paranormal, the fringe, the asserts, Eric, where it all sort of began?

I can. And I'm so glad you didn't ask that awful question. Can you tell us a little about yourself? I know. That's the worst. Oh, yeah. Okay, here we go. I was born. Yeah, did you have a therapy coach? There you go. To tell you the truth, I, and I don't know why. But ever since I was really little, I'm not talking like three, four, five years old. I have been like a UFO alien fanatic. And I loved ghost stories. And to me, even at that young and age, I was reading and writing when I was really young.

I think I started it before two. And I used to love to read ghost stories and then make up my own and tape them. But for some reason, I was really obsessed with UFOs. And the funny thing is, so is my dad. My dad was. He died a few years ago, but he was a geophysicist. He was a scientist. And he had this sort of secret passion for UFOs.

And it turns out that where I grew up in New York, our neighbor across the street, who was an artist, he was a big UFO buff too. So he'd bring these old, cool books over. And I remember UFOs and the three men. these dog-year paperbacks that were so cool. I couldn't wait to get my hands on them. And it just stuck with me all my life. I never, I can't pinpoint an event that happened when I was really young that might have made me interested.

I think I just kind of was born that way. And growing up with a scientist's father was really cool because I had this interest in the paranormal and UFOs and the unseen world. But I also grew up with a really strong. appreciation for science. And I always thought that the two were connected. And I think most of what I planned to do when I started writing in this field was find the connections. Absolutely. That's incredible. Now, did your father ever show any interest in the paranormal? Or was it ever a conversation you had with him? Oh, absolutely. Okay. So this, when I was really young,

maybe about seven years old. This is one of those defining moments for my life was when my dad would have some of his colleagues over. And so, you know, they could be astrophysicists, oceanographers, geologists, seismologists. They would sit around our little small round kitchen table smoking and having a beer talking about UFOs. And I would sit underneath the table like holding on to my dad's chair listening. And so that really struck me from that young and age that there are a lot of scientists out there who love this stuff, but they can't, you know, they couldn't really talk about it in the halls of academia. They couldn't talk about it openly because of their professions. And that went on for a long, long time. Now, nowadays, what's really cool about that is you have a lot

of scientists that are writing books. And the book allows them the ability to express their interest in the paranormal UFOs, you know, potential alien civilizations without it really interfering with any kind of university-related work that they do. And that's really opened it up. But, oh, you know, my dad, before he died, he lived in Las Vegas for many years. And whenever he would call me or I'd call him, our conversations were either about the paranormal or great race horses. We're both really into that. But it's just so fascinating because my dad, actually encouraged me to write what ended up being 11-11. The time prompt phenomenon was Larry Flaxman because he said,

you need to look into the paranormal nature of numbers. And I was like, yeah, really, I hate numbers. I hate math, whatever. And he was right. So as a scientist, he was able to see that there's still an unexplained unseen level to reality or maybe many levels to reality. that just because science can't explain them yet, they shouldn't completely brush under the rug. Absolutely. I mean, we always hear that sort of the paranormal is just science we haven't discovered yet.

Exactly. Yes. That's very interesting. Also, that you brought up, Marie, the book 1111. So back in 2015, for about two months straight, I found myself on a very sporadic schedule in my wife. I'd wake up at different times. My work's schedule was all over the place, and I just wasn't following any type of routine, but one thing seemed to always happen to me every single day. I would take a chance glance at both the digital and regular clocks in my apartment, and I would always catch them right at, guess what, 1111. And this continued, whether AM or PM, like I said, for about two months, I did some digging into this certain time and number sequence, and guess what popped up first? It was your book 1111 that's all wrong phenomenon.

Hey, good. So, you know, can you tell us a little about that book and sort of your thoughts on this almost synchronistic number? Oh, that was a tough one. Now, one of the reasons why I really enjoyed working with Larry is because he is the same as I am. We try to stay objective. We try to look at all sides of something. And we really do come out something a little bit more from the scientific slash skeptical point of view. But I think that that's required in the paranormal because, I'm not saying skeptic to the point where you don't believe in anything.

I'm saying skeptic to the point where you stay detached from adopting a particular belief or opinion until you've seen a lot of evidence, circumstantial evidence even. So when we set out to write the book, we'd actually believe it or not. My dad had said that to me. But what prompted writing the book was my publisher, New Page Books said, we'd like, because I said, I want to write a book with this Larry Flatsman. It was going to be our first book together. And they said, well, why don't you look into this 11-11 phenomenon? And I called Larry and I said, huh? What?

What is he? And he was like, I don't know. Let's Google it. and we were really completely blown away by how many people all over the world. Going back to the 1960s had seen this particular time prompt. Other time prompts too, but this one in particular. So because, you know, there isn't enough to write about 11-11 for a whole book, it really did evolve into a book that looks at the very mystical, metaphysical, paranormal nature of numbers.

I mean, really, numbers are the language of the universe and everything that describes life and how life came about and the galaxies and stars and the chemicals that all came together to form life. It all is based on mathematical ratios and different mathematical, you know, concoctions, if you will. And that was so fascinating. But with the 11-11 thing, what was really cool is we started talking to a lot of people. doing the research, and we found two different avenues. So the first one, I'll give you the boring one. And that is very simply that, you know, your brain sees something once, big deal. It sees something twice, still not too big of a deal.

But after that, if your brain sees something again, it really does establish a new neural network, little pattern whereby your brain will then seek out that particular thing, whether it's a number sequence or a word or an image, it'll seek it out. And our brains do this in order to make order out of chaos and to look for patterns. And it's very scientific, very basic, very boring. So the more people that hear about 1111, we would anticipate that the more people would start to do this. Their subconscious would kind of lock into, oh, you know, my friend Josie's 1111 all the time. Well, all of a sudden now they're a brain. is forcing them to look at a clock at just that time.

It's almost like when you go to bed at night, you say, I got to get up at 5 in the morning. My alarm is busted. And somehow you wake up at 10 to 5. I mean, I do that. I don't know if you do. So that was a boring explanation. And, you know, I tend to lean towards that because I've seen that happen.

You know, Larry and I tested it out. And like for me, 3, 3, 3, 3, I wake up every morning. morning at 333. Well, because it's become a habit. And I anticipate it. But so on the other hand, the more interesting explanation is that millions of people are associating that particular number sequence of 1111 with synchronicity's coincidences that will happen that just blow them away. Just real powerful moments of just, you know, that pure present moment awareness, which I think is really what this is all about. And seeing angels or spirits or whatever that their spirit guides are trying to get in touch with them. It's like when you're on Facebook and you poke somebody.

So the 11-11 could be like a universal poke. What was really cool is that we found out that there was this little link to December 21st, 2012, that whole scenario. And that is that someone had found that the moment of the beginning of the, what is it, not the winter equinox, what's the other one? The solstice, is it? Thank you. It was 1111, Greenwich, meantime, on that particular day. And so we thought, oh, you know, that is really cool.

That's probably embedded in the subconscious of a lot of people. And maybe there is something to it. We're not in a position to say what this is. I just try to show the different possibilities. But if you see 11-11 all the time and it doesn't bother you, and in fact, if it brings you into the present moment because you've been distracted by thoughts of the past or the future worries and concerns, I think that's a good thing.

And if it's happening to a lot of people, I can't imagine it being a negative. Thanks, yours too. What does RAV stand for anyway? To me, it's the remarkably advanced vehicle. Really? To me, it's the runway-approved vehicle. vehicle for its amazing style. What about remarkably adaptable vehicle because of its versatile cargo space? Or really admired vehicle? Oh, or really awesome vehicle. It really is the recreational activity

vehicle. The stylish 2026 Toyota RAP4 Limited. What's your Rav for? Great point. I mean, a lot of people told me when I sort of was searching for answers was very similar to what you said. It's an awareness. You're starting to hone in on something. And it's a, distractions around you are sort of fading away and you're living in the moment like you said. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. You know, and a number of people said, well, when I see 11-11 or 4-4-4-12, whatever their particular time prompt is, I'm pulled back into the present because I was just worrying about an interview I have tomorrow. I was stressing out over a conversation I had three weeks ago. And it pulls them back into the present and a lot of people say, you know what?

then some really cool synchronistic event would occur. And I say, you know, if you didn't notice that 11-11 or 12-12, you didn't get pulled back into the present, you might have just walked right on by that synchronistic event and never even noticed it. And it's so wild because I know that that's happened to me. If I'm not honed in on the present, I'm missing so much of what's going on in my reality. Right, right. It's a good point. And, I mean, you even say in the book, as Pythagoras once said, all is numbers.

It is. Isn't that awful? I mean, I can't balance a checkbook. I'm kind of like, well, if I haven't gotten a text that, you know, my account is below zero. I'm cool. Right. But I always hated numbers. I hate math.

Oh, same here. That's why we're writers. Yeah, but now I have, because of writing that book, I have this absolute profound respect for numbers. And, you know, we talk about aliens and communicating with aliens all the time. You and I and the people that we hang out with the weirdos. But think about it. They're not, if we interact with an alien civilization, they're not going to speak any kind of language that is Earth originated. Why wouldn't they?

The language that any other civilization out there is going to understand at a share necessity is mathematics. And I mean, I'm not the one creating that theory. I heard that from Carl Sagan and Stephen Hawking and Michiokaku. I mean, the reason why those people are so attracted to the world of physics is because of the mathematics behind it that really can explain so much and also makes up such a basic language that anybody can understand. I mean, music is based on mathematics. in numbers, if you think about it, harmonics. So that really fascinated me. That, you know, they're not going to come down and speak English, Spanish, Chinese, you know,

that it's going to be some kind of mathematical signal or message. Well, speaking of messages, Marie, one of your earlier books I found of great interest, and it involved a sensation we've all felt at one time or another in our language. life. And it sort of, you know, rushes over us and it leaves us wondering, have I done this before. That book is The Dejaveu Enigma, Journey Through Anomalies of Mind, Memory, and Time. Can you explain what this book is? Oh, for some reason, yeah, this book is like going through a renaissance right now. Yeah, it's like it's all happened before.

Yeah, okay, there you go. Well, again, you know, when Larry and I sit down to think about what you write about next. Truthfully, we're running out of ideas. Deja vu has always seemed to us as sort of a, you know, they talk about a gateway drug, marijuana, yeah, as the gateway drug to write. But to us, excuse me, deja vu is almost like a gateway experience to bigger paranormal experiences. And I say that because deja vu is something that has pretty much happened to almost everybody.

It's extremely common. It happens more than once usually in your lifetime. Everybody knows what it feels like. And it's one of those experiences that the medical community and the scientific community have struggled. They've really poured a lot of research dollars and time into it, believe it or not. But they've really struggled to understand what the mechanisms are in the brain that are causing deja vu. Well, they know what the mechanisms are, but what they have not been able to figure out is what prompts them, what triggers them. and why deja vu happens when it happens, which is totally spontaneously, you really can't say,

oh, I think I'm going to have deja vu at 3 o'clock today. And it happens in very organic settings. So you can study something in a clinical setting and get one set of information. But until you can figure out how it happens spontaneously in a non-clinical setting, so it was really cool for us to start researching deja vu and the anomalies of the mind, which have fascinated us for a long time and see how little understanding of this gateway experience there really was.

And also how a lot of current research was opening up to the possibility that deja vu could be an experience involving another timeline, a parallel universe, an alternate dimension, the experience of another reality, we exist in both and when they sort of come into alignment at those just those few seconds, you experience deja vu.

And the fact that a lot of people have deja vu, they either have straight deja vu, but some go into a precognitive experience. Some have past life recall. Some have, you know, start feeling sort of telekinetic or whatever. So it really is this weird gateway experience that is still quite misunderstood. Right. imagine, you know, the more we look into the theories of lucid dreaming, that perhaps that could even be a connection to this all as well.

You know, we're both in the paranormal community. And one of the things that's really always bothered me, but fascinated, but also kind of bothered me a little, is the focus on external events. You know, we chase ghosts, we look for UFOs, cryptids, obviously. I mean, we're fascinated. But I think that we've neglected for a long time. What goes on in our own bodies? Certainly the power of memory to shape reality, the power of perception, the power of belief,

especially collective belief to literally create physical manifestations. So the mind to me has always been that sort of final frontier. We're so outward and external. we think of well outer space is the final frontier but we don't even really understand our own minds we do not know what reality is that kills me every time you know nobody given the most brilliant scientists that have ever lived can say with 100 percent certainty what reality is and here we are trying to grasp things that occur beyond the sort of scope of everyday reality so yeah that's a big rabbit hole to go down

Oh, very much so. Very cyclical as well. You know, once you start thinking of reality, then you get into perception, consciousness, and it just keeps circling around the same definition. And it is literally mind-blowing. It can't, at this point yet in our understanding, can't be fathomed. No, and I mean, we have some really good educated guesses and theories, but there's still this huge debate going on over whether the mind slash consciousness is a part. of the brain are separate from it.

Right. And that's amazing because that's been going on for a long time. There's still a debate going on as to whether our perception shapes reality or our reality shapes perception. So, yeah, if you start thinking about it too much, kind of go a little bit crazy and get a really bad headache. But it's, I, you know, to me, some of the focus, if not half of it, really needs to be on our understanding of our own bodies and minds and consciousness and how we work in the world

and how we operate, as well as the things that are happening externally. Hey, listen, there's a theory that ghosts, cryptids, aliens, that you and I, that nothing that exists external to us is real, that there are projections from our consciousness onto a sort of blank landscape. That's really creepy to think about. And you would say, well, my reality doesn't appear that way. I think, Ryan, I think you're real. You're talking to me.

I think create you. And yet that is a very valid theory describing a possible explanation for reality. One of many and many will keep looking into you. That's why I'm not a philosopher or a physicist. Could you imagine? Oh, my God. Well, speaking of the mind, Marie, I want to touch on probably one of your most controversial books to date, and that is Mind Wars. I know a lot of people who have read this one later on in the conversation.

I'll get to some listener questions about that book. But I have some of my own. I'm going to be a little selfish here. That's okay. Now, what were some of the earliest versions of mind control you came across in researching this topic? for mind wars. Well, my assumption is, as well as Larry, is that we have been using mind control tactics since the dawn of humanity because it is a part of human nature. It's a basic part of human nature to want to try to get somebody to do something that you want them to do. And we have

learned over time all kinds of wonderfully manipulative tactics to achieve that. So, you know, however long we were walking the earth or crawling or what have you, we've been doing that in our interpersonal relationships. In terms of in a wider scale, you know, we're going back, like I said, in primitive times, obviously the whole point of life was to survive. And if you had to do anything to survive, which included getting to pray before another tribe does or another group, finding shelter, getting the women to reproduce with you if you were a man and vice versa so that you could keep the line going.

There's a lot of manipulation that has to happen for those things to occur, you know, and only the strong survive. But over time, you know, in more ancient times, it really became more about ritual. And it really became more about appeasing and pleasing the deities, the gods and goddesses of the time. And the idea being that through the use of ritual and anything and everything that went along with that, some rituals were perfectly harmless, some were akin to torture. What you were doing is you were being told, you're being taught to get in line, to do whatever the gods and goddesses wanted you to do, to gain favor with them. And oftentimes that was really only the interpretation of the people who were behind the rituals, the leaders of secret societies, the leaders of religious cults, which really flourished at that time. So in ancient times, it was really about religious and ritual use of manipulating people's actions, thoughts, and behaviors, mostly to please the gods, sometimes to please the people that were acting as the go-betweens.

And then, you know, in more modern times, it's everything from cults to out and out torture, to ritual abuse, to Project MK Ultra, which our own government was fully aware of. Right. I was actually going to ask about MK Ultra. I mean, a lot of us in the conspiracy theorist world, we've heard about this. But could you sort of elaborate on what that project was? Sure. It's so hard. Yeah, when people say, can you, like, summarize? Oh, I know. Yeah, please summarize this thing. I think by now everybody's either seen movies or TV shows or heard about M.K.K.Eldra. And it still really surprises me how many people still think it's just a conspiracy. It's not.

This is a part of American history. And as far as I and many others are concerned, it's a black mark on American history. So during the 1950s, obviously one of our concerns as a nation, was the fact that our POWs were being brainwashed and had been brainwashed during the Korean War. And the original goal of this sort of umbrella operation that became called MK Ultra, which started out with the precursor of the CIA and then was later taken over by the CIA, was to find out what techniques were being used to brainwash our POW, said that we could either stop it

or you know the offensive side of the things do it ourselves and it just ended up becoming this massive program involving

you know over 80 so 80 plus different types of institutions from colleges and universities orphanages prisons mental institutions, you name it, that allowed these people that were bought in, many of whom were doctors, you know, scientific researchers, to experiment with drugs, sensory deprivation, food deprivation, sexual abuse, torture, chemical exposure, all for the goal of trying to learn how to manipulate human behavior.

And that includes thought, obviously. And as M.K.K.L. Tra grew, and there were some splinter projects that came out of that. Some of the names Chatter, Artichoke, Bluebird. Some of the goals became more about creating the super soldier. You know, can we take a human being? Usually a child, because they're much easier to work with, their brains are still being formed. They have no identity quite yet. wipe out their personality, literally deprogram them,

and then reprogram certain personalities that were called altars, one of which might be an assassin, one of which might be a drug runner, one might be a prostitute, you know, one might be the altar that is supposed to forget all those other things. So literally we were creating these sort of robotic, newly programmed super soldiers that if you've ever watched the Manchioran candidate, if you've ever watched conspiracy theory

with Mel Gibson and Julia Roberts, just some really good movies out there that get into this. And, you know, they're fictional, but they're really based on fact about what was going on. And so eventually, some of the experiments got really unwieldy, and some of the victims started to speak out, and they started to hire lawyers.

and there were a couple of congressional hearings and a Senate hearing where a lot of it was exposed and in the mid-1970s, MK Ultra was officially closed. However, that doesn't mean it stopped. Basically, we assume that all of that continued in some form of or another, under different names, you know, much deeper black programs.

and that they were very, very careful from that point on to not, you know, to have these projects be small enough where they couldn't really be caught on to as easily. The step still goes on today. I mean, I talked to a woman who worked in the prison system, and she said they're still being experimented on without their will, or they're forced to. They're told you're never going to get out of here unless you take this new drug and tell us what happens. So it's still going on.

Now today we have surveillance. So the mind control techniques of today are more surveillance oriented or you have the mass media manipulation. But MK. Ultra, anybody wants to look into it. It's not a joke and it's not a conspiracy. It happened. It's very real. And like you said, I mean, there's forms of this still happening today. And like you mentioned, the mass media.

What do you think is the best case example, Marie, of the media influencing the public? you know, compared to maybe 20 years ago, 30 years ago. What are we looking at now in 2016? Oh, you really want me to get into it. Let's do it. Let's do it. I hate the media. You and me both.

You know, okay, so we have an election going on. It's election cycle. We're in the primaries. And there is an awful lot of corruption. There is voter theft. There is voter fraud. I've seen it. I've seen proof of it.

The mass media are not reporting. The mass media have chosen for the United States of America which two candidates they prefer. And any evidence to the contrary is being ignored, shoved under the rug, or called conspiracy theory. And that's one of the best ways that you stop your opponent. If your opponent says, I witnessed this happening and, you know, this person here is, is corrupt. You're going to be called a conspiracy theorist. That's the first way that they sort of categorize you as being crazy. So nobody will pay attention to you. The problem is now is that we have this thing called the internet and we have social networking. And even though social networking

has its own issues when it comes to mind control, which we can talk about a little bit, it does allow for the dissemination of information to happen immediately. So in this particular election. I don't care who you like or who you're voting for. The truth is there is massive voter theft and voter fraud going on, mainly in the democratic process. And that really breaks my heart because I've been a lifelong Democrat. And I'm leaving the party because of it. So what happens is in past elections, there's always been voter fraud, always. It's just a part of the election process. The powers that me have their chosen candidate. They're going to sink the most money into it.

They're going to buy media time. And in many cases, because the medias are owned by specific corporations and conglomerates, that the news people literally have to speak the stories that they are given. And those stories are not news. It's been it's propaganda. That's how it works. And the problem that we have right now is that we are being told that things are the way they are. where you get on the internet, you start doing your own homework,

and you are talking to the people that are on the ground, and you see that it is very different from what the mass media is telling. And that's probably the strongest example that people will understand is how the media works in collusion with either corporations like Monsanto to make them look good, you know, big pharma, big agribusiness, and certain politicians to keep the public unaware of what's happening on a deeper level of reality. And a deeper level of reality is that there is a massive revolution going on in this country. There's an independent revolution going on that a lot of people don't know about.

So that's a good example. You know, many, many years ago it was all about subliminal advertising and getting you to buy certain products. Well, they still do that. I mean, there's, you know, I watch the Walking Dead. I think 80% of the show is commercials, you know? Right. But mass media manipulation, don't watch mainstream news. You're not getting news.

You are getting sponsored news. Spid. Okay? It's not factual. You need to go find the facts on your own. And most people won't take the time to do that. Right. Yeah.

I mean, we, it's surprising to me that people do still consider, you know, certain news outlets as their main source, and it's just, it's incredible. Yeah, and they're all corrupt now. I mean, I remember, I'm old enough to remember many, many years ago when I could watch, Fox has always had their bias, and they've always been very open about it. MSNBC was kind of new at the time, but CNN had been around for a long time, a little bit of a left lean, but they always were very focused on trying to get good journalism and trying to report the facts. This was a long time ago, people.

So if you're watching CNN now, don't trust it. And I don't know, you know, I think it really was sort of around the time of the Gore-Bush election and then the Iraq War where there needed to be massive media manipulation to get the public to go along with a war that really was totally unwarranted. That's really, there was a huge shift in CNN and MSNBC to where, I, began to see sponsored news and it's like oh my gosh and then on my local news i watch my local news for the sports because i love sports and the weather and i live in san diego so it's not like we really had a lot of weather as soon as i started talking about politics or um you know this that and the other

thing i turn it off because i know i've seen enough of that i'm aware now i know you know there are different names for some of the manipulative techniques they're using i have know them all. After researching and writing this book, and once you're aware of it, you can't not see it. Right. I mean, for me, Marie, I just saw today a trailer for a new Oliver Stone movie, starring one of my favorite actors, Joseph Gordon Levitt, who will be playing Edward Snowden in the bio- Are you serious? Wow. that today. I recently also saw the documentary Citizen 4, also based on Howard Snowden. What have you discovered in your research into surveillance today in America in terms of what has been leaked by Snowden and, you know, WikiLeaks and whatnot?

What does this tell us about where we stand today as a country in terms of surveillance and how much of a hold these corporations and probably the military industrial complex might have on the public. Well, let's put it this way. You have no privacy. None. Absolutely none. Now, does that mean that you can never do anything in private? No.

What I mean is you're being watched constantly, whether by satellite technology, drones, cameras, your computer, if you're online, your cell phones, smart TV, smart appliances, what have you. We have no privacy anymore, yet we can still find ways to have private moments in our home, you know, what happens. You just have to be aware of the fact that those things are out there and that you're very limited into how you can avoid them. I was absolutely blown away when we were right.

I'm being a part about surveillance because Larry Flaxman works for Department of Homeland Security and he's also worked in cyberterrorism. And I remember asking him, you know, like I said, you know, I'm worried about my cell phone because at the time when we were writing my doors, my desktop computer started taking pictures of me. My camera would go off. And I thought, well, that's really weird. And I asked my son, and he's pretty tech-sabby, and he said, it could just be a glitch, but let me know if it keeps happening.

And it kept happening. And he said, you know, Mom, somebody could, you know, someone could so easily have gotten into your computer, whatever, and they're taking pictures of you. That happens all the time. And he said, just cover it up. And I disabled my webcam. I asked Larry later, because I thought, well, maybe my son doesn't really know. And he said, oh, absolutely, cover it up. And he said, your phone can be taken pictures of you.

even when it's off. I was like, what? He said, yep, the technology exists for your phone to be taking video and pictures of you even when it's powered down. And when it's on, you know, it's even worse. And to try to avoid tracking things like location, you know, location trackers for maps and stuff like that. And he told me, you know, on Facebook, there are certain things you can do, go into your settings, and you'll find out that you've got all kinds of open apps and open windows that anybody could get into.

And I really, I have been hacked like nobody's business. And that was really scary. So, you know, people are naive. If you think just because you turn off your computer or you turn off your cell phone or, you know, there isn't a satellite overhead at the exact moment that nobody can see what you're doing, you're wrong. But the plus side of that is that unless you're, doing something really bad. Nobody really gives a crap of what you're doing.

So the share amount of data that has to be looked through, NSA has facilities where they're literally looking through billions and billions and billions of bits of information and it's done by computer. It can't possibly be done by humans.

Well, they're only tagging a very small percentage of that information. And obviously, you know, anything they think that might be terror-related or overturning the government or, you know, shooting the president or having you. But as writers, you know, we're doing Google searches for serial killers.

How do you shoot somebody with a rifle? Yeah. And it's so funny because as writers, we're probably like on the list, but then as soon as they find out we're writers, it's like, I'll check that off. Moving on. He's just a writer. But yeah, it's really scary. And they now have drone and satellite technology.

that can look through walls, look through ceilings. Yeah. But again, you know, most of us are not doing anything that would attract any attention, and yet it's still there. I remember seeing a picture of somebody was in England, and they were walking down a street, one street in London, just pointing to all of the cameras that were up, you know, atop buildings, just watching the public.

And it was absolutely astounding. Wow. Yeah, that's. terrifying to think of the it is but you know if you're not cooking up a bomb in your house right you're probably okay you're probably okay but then you know we always run that risk Marie of where does security begin and where does invasion of privacy end you know yeah and you know the uh what the patriot act really right really destroyed a lot of our civil liberties and destroyed our privacy rights. And the funny thing is, is that after a certain amount of time past,

people thought that the Patriot Act would go away. And it's actually only been strengthened. Right, right. You know, and they'll say, oh, well, we've got to keep track of ISIS. But their domestic surveillance and domestic spying is a huge part of what's being done. And I remember reading a few years ago that one of the number one targets of domestic spying is animal rights organizations. Now, can you explain that to me? Interesting. I used to be in a very, I don't know if you've ever heard about the animal liberation front, this was a long time ago. But, you know, we broke into labs and got animals out.

Statute of limitations is passed, so they can't really come after any of us. But for some reason, if you are a terrorist, yeah, you're a target, but they're even more concerned about people that might disrupt big pharma and big ed. business. They're concerned more about people that might have the goods on a Dow or a Monsanto than they are, this guy's got a cachet of 500 guns and a book about, you know, how to blow up your neighbor. It's really odd what the priorities are. I can't even imagine what the red flags look like. Yeah, yeah. You know, animal rights. I mean, come on. Now, today, I don't know. It could be a little bit different. but that was about maybe 10 years ago,

that that was the public enemy number one on their list of domestic surveillance. Wow. That blew me away. Give me a break, yeah. But, you know, as our technology increases, the means by which they can watch us are going to become more sophisticated.

People talk about chips. People talk about, and this is still conspiracy, you know, but people talk about this push for vaccinations could possibly be to chip us. I mean, what better way to watch us than in something that is in our own bodies. It's creepy to think about it. It makes for a good movie, you know, or novel material. But, you know, that's not out of the question because that technology exists.

And it's getting littler, I mean, RFIDs, the tags. And they're getting so tiny that you might think it's just, you know, a little speck of salt from your leftover lunch. and not realize that somebody's looking at you. Yeah. Yeah, it's scary. I'm looking over my shoulder now, Marie. But you know what? We can't live like that.

I mean, really, the best that we can do is try to clean up the things we can. Right. You know, my son, take your location tracker off your phone. Mom, you don't need that, you know. You do the little things, you know, watch all your security settings and stuff on Facebook and Twitter. And when you buy something online, oh, please make sure it's a secured. site and even then, you know, you're kind of, you're not really 100% safe, but just common sense. But when it comes to going outside your home or, you know, sitting watching TV, there may be a drowned, there may be a satellite overhead.

But if all you're doing is sitting and watching TV and that satellite is overhead for a nanosecond, big deal. What are you going to do? You can't really fight that. Right. You should be good. Although, yeah, yeah, there are some laws on the books now that you have the right to, well, are pushing. the right to shoot down a drone that is on your private property. And I will be the first one to sign. Oh, wow.

That's very interesting. I read today that, you know, we're even getting to the point where I think it was at the University of Florida, they are testing mind-controlled drones where these people are able to pilot these drones using brain waves, which, you know, brain computer interface. It's absolutely astounding. It's exciting in terms of. of technology, right, it is the future. But then you wonder what that technology will be used for, and that can be a scary thing.

Like you said, as long as we're careful and, you know, we live our lives and we use common sense, then we should be okay. Well, and also, if it really makes you angry, do something about it, organize, you know? Yeah. Make a, I think probably the most powerful weapon we have is knowledge. And whether you read my book or anybody else's or you listen to a radio show and you become aware, you know, tell somebody else. Yeah. And that level, raising that level of awareness alone is in danger to the status quo. Because the more people that become aware, the more angry they become.

And then you get little things like revolutions. Yep. Are usually always a good thing. Exactly. Yes, usually. Maria, I want to get a little lighter tone. I want to talk about some of your articles. I recently started working with you over at the paranormal brain trust,

Jimherald.com, for those of you who may not be familiar. And I read your first article, and it literally left me saying aloud, wow, I have never thought about that before. I forgot what it was. What was it? This was your article. titled, is a house, is a haunted house really haunted?

If there's no one there to see it, see the haunting. I totally botched that. I apologize. No, you think he's kind of got close enough. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's basically, you know, if a tree falls in the forest. Can you give us a glimpse of this article, what you discovered in terms of, I know you spoke of quantum physics and meditation. So tell us, can a house be haunted if there's no one there to experience it? Well, we don't know for sure because it's absolutely impossible to prove. But if, you know, the reason why I wrote that is because I really, I'm fascinated with quantum and theoretical physics because the world of the subatomic particle is even more paranormal than anything in the paranormal field.

And even though we haven't proven yet that anything we learn about what happens on the quantum level can be extrapolated to the cosmic level, quote unquote, it's still really cool to think about and maybe it can. So the idea being that there's this thing called the observer effect. And in the world of the quantum, the act of observation has the ability to change the behavior or the actions of subatomic particle. And there have been experiments to prove that. And so how I wanted to look at that with the paranormal is if that's true and we are acting as the observer, And we are responsible for fixing certain things into a reality, if you will. Are we perceiving our reality as we go along?

Are we creating it? Does that mean anything outside of us doesn't exist until somehow we observe it into reality? And, you know, you go down that rabbit hole. So say there's a house that people say is haunted. Is it only haunted when there is. is an observer present to see that particular unfoldment of the activity. And when that observer is not there, everything exists in a sort of state of superposition as it does in the quantum world when there's no observer.

Is that true? You know, can we maybe apply that theory to the grander scale of reality? Does, you know, any house that somebody says is haunted, where do you? you make that decision because somebody saw something, because somebody experienced something, because somebody observed something, remove any possible observer. And I'm not just talking about a human being. I'm talking cameras, tape recorders, because an observer is nothing more than a person or device that measures something. Okay, that's what an observer is. It can measure, what's going on audibly, what's going on visually.

It can be a person. It can be a dog. It can be a cat, whatever. If there's no observer there, is it just, is nothing happening? Or is everything happening? And it takes that observer to come in and fix everything into a position whereby you can then perceive it. And the problem with that is, and Larry and I drove us crazy, we're having these conversations like, how can we test this? Because you can't test it unless you have an observer there.

How do you observe an unobservable haunted house? You can't. And that's what's so frustrating about physics and getting into the quantum world is that a lot of it are a lot of these experiments like Schrodinger's cat experiment. They're thought experiments because you can't actually do them. The minute you open that box, you know, you're observing a particular reality. And that's always really blown my mind. I tend to lean towards the fact that we as observers are co-responsible, maybe is the word, for the manifestation of paranormal phenomena.

I have always believed that. In other words, I believe, and Larry and I wrote a book called The Grid that is all about this, that there are external environmental influences interacting with internal physiological influences that create paranormal phenomena. And that is why one person can experience something, and the person standing next to them doesn't. Because their internal, their physiological nature may not be the same to trigger that interaction with the environmental external influences that the person next to them does. And again, you know, if neither of those people are in there, is there still stuff going on or is everything happening or nothing? and I just really tend to lean on from what I've learned that a haunted house is just a void of activity until somebody comes in and observes something.

But at the same time, that can mean that everything possible is occurring as well. That's one of the dilemmas of quantum physics. Right. Is that everything is either happening or nothing is happening. Yeah. There is, yeah. I know. But it takes the observer, even if everything is happening in that house possible, you still.

You still have to have an active observation to come in. It's called collapsing the wave function. So we know that there's no such thing as a particle. Particles can exist as both particles and waves. And they behave as waves until you have an observer. Step in and collapse that wave function, giving you a fixed particle. Okay? It tells you exactly what the momentum of the particle is or where the position is,

but you can't have that without some active measurement or observation. So you walk into a haunted house where everything is going on. It's just a blur of, you know, virtual quantum particles popping in and out of existence. It would take an active observation to fix all of that into one particular outcome, which might be an apparition across the hall. And, you know, I mean, it gets really into some heavy stuff, and it's totally speculative. Right, right. I mean, but very, it's a very interesting theory. You know, I could even sort of relate it to the stone tape theory, you know, the fact that these things could be on replay constantly. And then, like you said, it takes that observer and their perception of what is going on to, to break, as you said, those waves and manifest the apparition, manifest the...

Or here, the EMP, exactly. See, smell, touch. any of it. Yeah, I mean, if you have, say you have walls that supposedly are, have encapsulated energy from a past event or whatever, and it's looping it in, in this particular room. There's just constant loop. And also probably a whole lot of other stuff going on over the course of the history of that house. And it's all energy. It's all frequency, vibration. Nothing is fixed. and you walk into that room and you maybe you will collapse the wave function and observe an apparition. But I might not. I might collapse the wave function and say, Ryan, you're crazy.

There's nothing here. Or there's a cat, you know, that you might as. And that's what's so cool is it. It's not just, this is not just external phenomena. It's us. We're interacting with it. And if we don't figure out what it is in our physiology or a consciousness or whatever that is triggering it, manifesting it, perceiving it, and why the guy next to us is totally clueless, I don't think we're ever really going to understand the paranormal fully. Great point.

I mean, that's my soapbox. Oh, no. It's an extremely educated soapbox. One, I definitely want to be up there with you for sure. Marie, that was probably my favorite article over at Jim Herald, so I wanted to applaud you on that. I like the clown one personally. Let's talk about it, you know? I wasn't putting out and bringing it up, but please, I could not read the article because, like many.

You have chlorophobia. Yes, I suffered this when I was a young child, and it was very traumatizing. Could you give us a little info on what exactly happens? Oh, gosh. I won't go in too much detail. I just, I hate clowns. And I have a friend on Facebook that we're always teasing each other over our dismay at the clown world. And I just thought, you know, everyone I know hates clown.

I don't know anybody who likes clowns. Yeah. What is the deal? I don't get it. Yeah, I just thought, you know what? And Jim was like, yeah, go for it. Sounds fascinating because I wanted to look at, you know, the history of clowns. And where did they start?

And what were they supposed to be entertaining and that were they tragic? and they really were a combination of the two. Now they evolved quite recently into the more sinister evil clowns that we see on, you know, American Horror Story and it. But, yeah, it's funny because the vast majority of people don't like clowns. And the reason being that a clown has a mask, a clown is wearing a mask to hide their true identity. We have just sort of an inherent mistrust of that from childhood. That's why a lot of, not only that, but oftentimes that costume, that makeup is very garish. Yes.

So as children, it freaks us out. You know, I mean, even Bozo the Clown or Ronald McDonald, they're pretty mild compared to some of the others. But they're still, they sort of trigger something in our subconscious. We don't trust them because they're hiding behind a mask of makeup and the wig and the crazy costumes. And then over time, you know, one person comes down. up with a sinister clown idea. And it just exploded in our pop culture. Basically because we all relate, you know, killer clowns from outer space is a really

cool movie. It really is. But yeah, it's a part of our history and our pop culture that everybody can relate to. I honestly, I also, but the way I, I think I ended the article talking about how there are these therapy clowns. And they work with kids. And I'm thinking, wait a minute, you just got through telling me. Why kids hate clowns, but apparently, you know, if they're, if they look a certain way and they're more open and friendly and they're not as garish, they're not as spooky looking, that it really is a wonderful way to interact with kids with autism, developmental disabilities, where they respond to the humor and the exaggerated facial expressions and the props and jokes and stuff.

So there is this little side to clowns that is positive. I'm glad there's still hope. Well, you mentioned pop culture, Marie. I wanted to touch on another one of your articles of folklore, which you titled, dubbed Faklore. This was very interesting, The Rake, Slender Man, we have black-eyed children, things like this, Jeff the Killer. Oral tradition has played such a powerful role in the topics that you and I are very interested in.

we are the ones trying to delineate, you know, fact and fiction. So what sort of prompted you to write this article? And are there any urban legend, as it were, that you think there could be a reality behind? Oh, gosh. I just, I love this kind of stuff. You know, I love pop culture. And I also love the idea that the collective unconscious can create, that actually create some of these entities.

If you have enough people that believe in something, can it come true? Can it be manifested into reality? And what's really with, there's folklore. And folklore has a lot of truth to it, but it's embedded in fiction. It's embedded in exaggeration and embellishment. But there is truth to folklore just as there's some truth to myth and some truth to legend. All of those things have at their core truths. And they couldn't have been about real people or real events,

but by the time you layered all the embellishment on, it's really hard to tell what's what. Well, now with the internet, we have this new thing called fake lore, which is basically, you know, these websites like creepypasta and where people submit stories. They're just fictional stories

and that's made very clear, but they take on a life of their own to the point where, as with the Slender Man, you actually have to, people committing crimes or, you know, emulating Slender Man or those two young girls that stabbed their friend because Slender Man told them to. And these fake, totally original creative entities start to take on this reality with the rake. What was really funny was it says right

there. This is a fictional entity. It kind of interdimensional. I like to call them IDEs. After a while, people were actually reporting what they thought were real sightings of the rake. Now, granted, once something gets into your subconscious, it's real easy to misinterpret something else for it. But it's spooky. It's spooky that those kinds of things can happen. And it kind of goes back to what we're talking about earlier about, media manipulation, is that you can plant a story online that is totally fabricated.

And, you know, two days later, it's all over the world, and it's being accepted as a pure fact. I really was fascinated by that with fake lore. Also, because my son, when he was younger, he used to talk about creepy pasta all the time. I was like, what the heck is creepy pasta? What does it have to do with macron? I'm a tell me with macaroni. What's the deal? Really? And he told me and I'm like, dude, I don't know if I want you reading. Some of these stories are, oh my God, they're terrifying. Yes, very disturbing. Yeah. And there's other sites that really, really, get even creepier. But, you know, there's, there are opportunities for writers like us or just people to, to be

creative and, oh, you know, can I come up with a really creepy story and freak a bunch of people out? Yeah. That's, that's the, the origin of all of this. And yet the way it's been taken seriously by so many people, you wonder if there are actually people out there that are seeing entities that they report to, you know, cryptid hunters, and ghost hunters and alien hunters that came from this sort of collective unconscious

from these viral stories. So that just fascinated me. Yeah. A very broad spectrum of topics you cover there. So I definitely suggest people check out your work at jimharald.com. Marie, I've got a couple listener questions. I did let people know you were coming on and they were very excited to ask you some stuff.

This sort of ties in to probably, mind wars, but one of our listeners asks, given the use of chemicals being used on civilians in the past, do you believe that this is currently happening at the hands of any sort of government agency, whether it's for illnesses or, again, like we said, sort of mind control. Yes, chemtrail. You're asking me the chemtrail question. I'm trying to work my way around it, sugarcoded. I am a firm believer in chemtrail.

Now, I'll tell you how this came about. Well, first of all, again, my father was a geophysicist. He passed away. For about the last 15 years of his professional career as a geophysicist, as my father was working on climate science. And he taught me a lot about it. I'm very well educated on this subject. And I only say that because it's kind of surprising with my belief in chemtrails.

But he also told me about geoengineering. He said, oh, it's been around forever since the 70s, you know, It's the original attempts of geoengineering was to alter the weather for positive reasons. However, I think, and my dad and I were never really able to have this conversation, but over the last several years, and I've written a lot in my fiction, I actually have a fictional television series that is being looked at that is about chemtrails. And that's all I can say about it. Oh, wow.

When my son, who's now 15, when he was a baby, so I think it was baby one year's old, because I could still hold him. I was in the backyard of my home here in Southern California, and I was on the phone, and I was walking around my back patio holding my son, and a small plane went over, and it was spraying, and it was spraying something. And a white sort of mist came down to the ground all over my arms, all over my kid. I was like, what the heck? I had no idea about any of this at the time. Went in the house, wiped everything off, just thought, you know what, they overspray because I live in an agricultural belt. Big deal. You know, I'm going to get it off me. My son was clothed, so it really wasn't on much of him, but I'll be damned, pardon my French, if he and I didn't get very sick over the next few days. Not only that, with like flu-like symptoms. Well, not only that, but my neighbors did, a lot of them

that I talked to later that were outside at the time. Okay, was that something sinister and meant to like call the human population, you know, as the big conspiracy theories? I don't know. I don't know if they were testing something to see if it would make us sick. I don't know if it was just an overspray of the agricultural spring. But as time went on, I was so angry and so fascinated that I started to really read up on it. Where I live, you should see the skies.

There are some days that are perfectly clear. there are some days that the sky is an absolute checkerboard and it's over residential areas. There's no reason for that. Right. And I know the difference between a chem trail and a contrail. So, yes, I am an absolute believer. Do I know who is doing it? No, I don't think any of us know for sure.

It's either the government. In my opinion, it's more likely big eye for business. And I think, you know, there's a lot of conspiracy theories. Yeah. Do I think that there's a chance that it is the government related? and they are trying to sicken the populace, absolutely because it made me sick. And it's a subject that I follow very closely,

and absolutely chemical testing has gone on in the past in subways, on small cities, you know, spraying pesticides, you name it, and it's still going on. And maybe this is their way of testing some kind of agent. I think it's kind of a stupid way to do it. It's very visible. Yeah. You could just poison the water.

You can put it in the food system, but there are way too many people with way to amazing pictures and stories to tell and skin rashes and this, that, the other thing for me to start thinking that these are just overshot agricultural spraying. Yeah, that's a really interesting subject. And one of my favorite right now. Opens a lot of cans of worms for sure. Well, you don't want to think about that your government is doing that, but they've done a good thing. for. Exactly. It just to me, it's such a visible, dumb way to do things. Yeah. Yeah. You would think they would have more brains than that, but as we've learned, the government is not exactly. Exactly. And the thing is, like, here we're in severe drought, beyond severe. And they have done that. And I always notice,

I always watch for the pattern. Two, three days later, we have a little bit of rain. Now, if that's what you're doing it for, I understand. We need to get out of this drought, but what the hell is in that That's what bothers a lot of us. If you're doing, if you really truly are doing it to alter the weather for beneficial reasons, okay, but what's in that stuff that's going to hurt us in a different way? You know, cause cancers, autoimmune diseases. We know cancers are rising, skyrocketing. Autoimmune diseases are skyrocketing. Is it what we're breathing?

You know? It's just like fluoride. That's another one. I am absolutely, you know, anti-fluoride. What does you start reading about this stuff, and you really do the research, and you see how the mainstream media has covered up some of these things. But the first thing that happens is you get labeled a conspiracy nut, so. Yeah.

And then your chances of getting anything out to the public is nil. Exactly. Or you become niche, you know. Yes, exactly. Only conspiracy people will buy your stuff. Speaking of niche, do you, one of our other. listeners wants to know, do you have a favorite UFO case and or favorite haunting case that you have either investigated, researched, or just in general?

None that I've investigated, because I'm really kind of a skeptic, especially when it comes to hauntings and ghosts. I don't think I've ever, I've been in a lot of the places that people say are haunted. I've never had anything happen to me. But I'm not discounting the experiences of other people, and I do think that they're a physiological reasons for why I may not have and you have or somebody else has. And I really love poltergeist cases the best because they seem to have more visible evidence that, you know, more than one person can see.

And my favorite is a case that has been very disputed. And that would be the Tina Resch, or what was the name? William Roll. He was a psychologist. the book was called Unleashed. And I'm trying to remember the whole title. He was in the early 2000s. He wrote a book called Unleashed.

It was about this young girl or this young woman that was manifesting all kinds of craziness. And he documented it. He had witnesses and cameras and blah, blah, blah, blah. Well, later on down the line, I guess the amazing Randy, you know, our best pal, the skeptic, found, a couple of instances where Tina was faking.

Now, that doesn't mean that everything that happened earlier was a fake. It just means she may have caught on that, gee, you know, I can make some money doing this. I don't know. I'm not going to judge. But what I loved about that case is it was one of the first ones that was really documented

heavily by an academic. And if anybody wants to look into the work of William Merle, Unleashed as the name of the book, you know the Enfield polderger ghosts there's a lot of really cool stuff going on but it's hard

for me to judge because I didn't I'm not there to experience it right and we have to take the words of the people that are when it comes to UFOs it's a different story oh my God I just I love everything but really I have to tell you my absolute favorite and I'm going to try to remember the year as being

I think early 1960s was Lonnie Zamora and oh gosh let me see if I can I have my tons of books and stuff. Yeah, it was in Sequooro. It was in Sequooro, New Mexico. And he was a police officer.

And he witnessed this amazing event, and he became sort of a local celebrity. I loved that, and I'll tell you why. That was one of the first books on UFOs that I read. It was called a Socorro Saucer in a Pentagon pantry, and I'll never forget that name. That is a silly name. But it documented this sort of, you know, whatever New Mexico state police officer who had

this life-changing experience and then was totally put under government scrutiny and the media and I love it. It's an early 1960s case that anybody in the UFO field should read about and know about. And it really kind of captured

my attention when I was really young. I love the Reynoldsham Forest, Bentwater's and Burnout on Roswell. I'm actually a little more fascinated by the Aztec crash. I will tell you the Hudson Valley wave in the early 1990s because my grandparents had a siting in Bridgeport, Connecticut.

And I had been back there right before it started, which was a real bummer. Oh, no. To find out that I missed it. A lot of the more modern cases, I'm not real impressed. It seems to have waned quite a blade in terms of it. It hasn't. And, you know, it's so funny because we have cell phones now, anybody and everybody can get documentation and yet we're not seeing super high quality cases.

Now, I don't keep up on it as much as I used to, so I could be wrong, but I've not heard of a case that everybody is like jumping over backwards for in a long time. Yeah, it's an interesting, you know, conundrum in a way you would think with all the technology we have today, we would get more. But that could say a lot about our, you know, the cultural narrative of a UFO sighting. And what do we take from that? Maybe maybe we're getting smarter. Maybe we're getting dumber when it comes to these things. Yeah. And I think it's cyclical.

I mean, certainly UFO waves are, you know, we've proved that there are a lot of UFO sighting waves over the course of recordable history. Right. So we may be in a downwave. But I also think that because everybody has a camera, we're getting. a lot more junk. There has to be a lot more junk sightings to feed through. And there's not enough people to do that to get very quickly to the good stuff. But there's a lot of UFO researchers out there writing, you know, the old and new that are doing incredible work.

It's just where is that? We want that smoking gun, darn it. Oh, well, maybe we'll get it sooner or later, Marie. Whoever our next leader of the free world may be, I seriously doubt it. I doubt, oh, I don't think it's going to happen. No, absolutely. For all our disclosure peeps out there, I apologize. So, Marie, you're working on a few upcoming projects, including a book about the history of evil. This is very interesting to me.

Can you tell us a little bit more about that when we like expect that? Yeah, I believe it'll be out at the beginning of next year. This is a monster of a book. It's a very big reference book, but it will be, but it's also written for the public. Documenting the history of evil, the devil, hell, demons, dark angels, looking at where these concepts originated from, how they morphed over the years through myth. and religion and philosophy, and it's really, really big. And I'm writing it with Larry Flaxman, and just starting on looking at the origin of evil, it's really interesting how the origin of words ties in so much to the history of the concepts that we've adopted.

So looking at the root word of evil or Satan or the devil, we can learn so much about the history of that concept. So I'm finding that kind of fascinating, but it's a big beast of a project. And I have to tell you that I've been warned by several people that when you write about this stuff, weird things will happen. I'm sure.

And I will be damned if I should say darned. I don't want to be damned. But when I first started, Larry called me a couple of, we talk all the time, and he called me a couple of times this happened. and we would be talking on the phone. He lives in Little Rock, Arkansas, so we have to do a lot of our work on the phone. And all of a sudden, his voice became demonic. I'm not kidding.

This just sounded like an altered, like, you know, some kind of device to alter your voice. And I said, Larry, what do you do? Nothing, you know, your voice. No, you know, let me take off my headset. I'll call you back. You'll call back. I don't have my headset on. Everything's normal, and it would happen again.

And it was because we were talking about the book. And it would. Who else? Well, then, a couple of other people that I talked. I think I was talking to David Weatherly and something like that happened. And or my computer will just shut off. And he goes, yeah, they're toying with you. I don't want to do this.

Please don't make me. And I signed the contract. The question is, who did you sign a contract with? We're hoping not to do you. Oh, you know, it's a new publisher. I never met him. Oh, there you go. You need to meet that person face to face.

Yeah, exactly. But I love going to look for the origins of things. Because oftentimes it's so much different than what we've been taught. You know, I grew up Catholic. I'm not a Catholic anymore, but the things that we've been taught about the devil and Lucifer and demons and evil, when you really research and look back at where this began and how it unfolded, It shows you how organized religion had a big role in manipulating the perception of evil. The perception of hell is a form of punishment and all these other things.

So I'm not begging on religion, but this is the truth. So we hope to get into all that stuff. Cool. Well, I'm really looking forward to that one. It's definitely going to keep me up at night. Yeah, probably. Me too. It made me go back to church.

We'll see. Oh, wouldn't that be funny? Become a devout Catholic again. Marie, I know you're, I don't know when you have time to eat or sleep. I was going to say, yeah, and raise a child. It's just, it's amazing, all the work you do, prolific. You're working on another major project dealing with a prominent family company. Is there anything you could clue us in on that project?

Well, actually, yeah, I'm actually, you know, I was a screenwriter from way back in the day. And I, a couple of years ago, or four years ago, signed with a manager. We were working on novels and this, that. And we finally decided that because I'm really good at producing, let's get you into producing. So for the past year, I've been optioning properties developing them. I now have 20. Some were my own. I just had a script of mine optioned, which was really wonderful.

Wow, congratulations. Yeah, thank you. It's a science fiction script, and I'm so thrilled. But I love writing fiction. I love writing screenplays because these are other ways that you can convey the things that you're passionate about. And obviously, a lot of my stuff is about the stuff that we've talked about today. However, this one project, the very first project that my manager brought to me was the story of the Mabelene Dynasty, at Mabeline Cosmetics.

And I was reading the grandniece of the founder, her memoirs, and just, and I didn't have any idea at the time why I was asked to read it. I thought I just am supposed to help like edit it or something. And it was so fascinating that I looked forward every week I would get a new section of the book. Here, read this. That when it stopped, I cried my eyes out. It was like, I, this family, oh, my God. I mean, it's like Dallas with cosmetics. It is absolutely shocking.

The history of the M. Parks, it's one of the biggest brands. Oh, yeah. It's absolutely iconic. And so finally, I said, well, why did you make me read this? And my manager said, I want you to produce. I want you to develop this as a TV series as a producer. And I said, I don't know how to do that. I mean, I did.

But I was like, are you serious? And that happened quite a while ago. It's actually now in making the rounds. It's some pretty big networks and what have you. And our fingers are crossed. It's just an absolutely stunning story. And about the founder who founded the company when he was 19 and just the hell that that family went through. So that was really exciting.

And then I started to option more properties. And I have my own properties of mine that have been developed that are in play. So I love I love producing. This is what I was meant to do. But I'm not forgetting my non-fiction books. But the funny thing is like, you know, Larry and I have been racking our brains. Well, what in the paranormal do you want to write about that hasn't been written about either by us or our colleagues? Because, you know, our colleagues are out there writing.

You've got a book. I mean, it's hard to think of anything new. Oh, trust me. I know that feeling. It's like, oh, you know, is there any new things with UFO? No, Nick Redford's written everything. Yeah. Guy writes a book, you know. Yeah, but this is really cool.

Larry and I actually have three concepts that we're developing together that have paranormal, sciencey, you know, quantum physics, time travel elements. So it's kind of another fun way to take what you're passionate about and express it. And you know that. Oh, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. That's exciting. And, you know, the worlds of nonfiction and fiction always meld at some point or another. And there's those things you can glean from the fiction that you can take with you as fact. Oh, yeah. I mean, we're pretty blatant about it. We have a project, Larry, I have a project called Gridwalkers that is based on our nonfiction book, The Grid. Right, right.

We take a lot of the theories and the science and the Tesla research and the time travel. And we, you know, it's so fun to be able to do that because you can do in fiction. so much more. Right. Exactly. And yet, still present some solid, we like to call it science faction, because you really are blending the two, and it's really kind of fun.

I like that. Yep. I can't take credit for it. I think you should. Got to put the old TM on the end of that one. There I should. So where can we find more about your fiction, your nonfiction, your screenplays?

Give us a link. I will. Well, my website for my books is Marie D.Jones.com. My website for my movie projects I'm developing is where's lucy productions.com. All one word, where's lucy productions.com? And my son named it that because I couldn't figure out a name for the production company. We have a cat named Lucy and we, either one of us 25 times a day. Where's Lucy? Yeah. she gets into a lot of trouble. So my son said, Mom, why don't you just call it? Where's Lucy? Oh, that's great. That's so cool.

You always wonder where these production company names come from. Oh, I know. There's a bad robot. I love that one. Well, it's great to hear that your son is also your co-producer. Yeah, there you go. I guess I have to give him some money. Yeah.

That's what trust funds are for. Oh, exactly. Yes. Oh, wow. This has been just an extremely fascinating conversation. And I honestly, I can say that my mind has been stretched in a hundred different ways. It went all over the map there. I did.

I loved it. I know the listeners will. I can't wait to see what you come up with next in everything, Marie. Thank you so, so much for joining us. You are very welcome. Have you ever rewatched a movie from the past? Did it hold up or did you regret it immediately? No need to rewatch the mask or look who's talking alone.

We're the rewatchability podcast. And each week we jump back in time to revisit movies and TV shows to see if they stand the test of time. We'll laugh, we'll cry. We'll discuss a surprising amount of racism and misogyny in our favorite movies. From Twin Peaks to Forrest Gump to The Jungle Book, we watch movies and TV from any genre and any decade. You can subscribe and listen to our podcast on iTunes, rewatchability.com, or your local podcast network. You can also follow us on social media at rewatchability. Join us. We can't do this alone.