Somewhere in the Skies - OMNIBUS 07 | UFO & Alien Movie Reviews

Episode Date: August 22, 2025

It's another Omnibus episode! This time, we have collected all of are movie review episodes about UFO and alien films. What did Ryan and his guests think?  Movies include: The UFO Incident (1975) The Thing (1982) Communion (1989) The Arrival (1996) Signs (2002) Dark Skies (2013) Arrival (2016) No One Will Save You (2023) Please take a moment to rate and review us on Spotify and Apple. Book Ryan on CAMEO at: https://bit.ly/3kwz3DO Patreon: http://www.patreon.com/somewhereskies ByMeACoffee: http://www.buymeacoffee.com/UFxzyzHOaQ PayPal: [e-mail] Email: [e-mail] Discord: https://discord.gg/NTkmuwyB4F Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/ryansprague.bsky.social Twitter: https://twitter.com/SomewhereSkies Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/somewhereskiespod/ Tik Tok: https://www.tiktok.com/@ryansprague51 Order Ryan’s new book: https://a.co/d/4KNQnM4 Order Ryan’s older book: https://amzn.to/3PmydYC Store: http://tee.pub/lic/ULZAy7IY12U Read Ryan’s articles at: https://medium.com/@ryan-sprague51 Opening Theme Song by Septembryo Copyright © 2025 Ryan Sprague. All rights reserved. Proud member of SpectreVision Radio: https://www.spectrevision.com/podcasts Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/somewhere-in-the-skies. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Pluto TV, stream now, pay never. This is Somewhere in the Skies with Ryan Sprigg. Welcome to Somewhere in the Skies. I'm your host, Ryan Sprigg. So we had some technical difficulties this week, and our interview completely vanished. I tried everything I could to resolve the issue, but sometimes you just had to accept the fate of the digital gods. So in place of this week's interview,

I'm bringing you a very fun conversation I had with the guys over at the rewatchability podcast. Rewatchability is a comedic pop culture podcast focusing on the movies and TV shows of the recent past. Each week hosts J.M. McNabb, Blaine Waters, and Robert Laurent profile a cherished property from their youths to see if it holds up to the scutinous eye of today. And I was honored to join them for the review of M. Night Shamelon's Alien-Themed 2002 film, Signs. So kick back this week, re-watch Signs. and then come back and listen to our review.

And let me know what you think on Twitter or Facebook. Do you think signs is rewatchable? And be sure to check out all the reviews from rewatchability right now by subscribing on all podcast apps. Or listen through their website, rewatchability.com. Keep looking up, and I hope you enjoy. Welcome to rewatchability, the podcast where we rewatch old movies and TV shows

to see if they hold up over time. My name is Blaine Waters. with me as always is Robert Lerone and Jay McNaught. And this week on the podcast, we have a special guest, Ryan Sprague. What's up, guys? I'm so honored to be here. I've been listening to you for a while now. So to actually have the tables turned and be the guest on a podcast, nonetheless, yours, I'm a little nervous, I must admit.

But we'll get through this and we'll get through signs as well. The tables are turned. Sounds very dramatic. Yeah, we're like a Bond villain. This is great. I like to start. Start with a bang for sure. Exactly.

And we like to start by thanking our sponsor, HelloFresh. You can go to hellofresh.ca and type in rewatch 50 for 50% off your first order. It's fresh food that comes to your door and you can cook yourself. It's pretty great. And thank you to our Patreon sponsors for giving $1, $3, $5 a month to keep lights on here. We really appreciate it. And in return, we get the podcast early to you guys and other little perks like maybe coming up some back catalog stuff. Yeah, not our show.

We'll send you old catalog. Yeah, Sears catalogs. Rob's been using them as furniture and toilet paper. Exactly. I got them from Mike Myers' brother. And this week on the podcast, like Ryan said, we're going to be talking about M Night Shaleman's. Shaleman? Shaleman.

Yeah, we've done like three of his movies. You can't pronounce his name yet? He's your favorite director. He's your favorite person. I just call him M. Because you feel like James Bond. The Divine method. We're doing his third movie.

movie in his uvra. Well, it's kind of his third movie. It's like his fourth or some, if you count other, like that. The romantic comedy. Yeah, exactly. Well, yeah, didn't he write a Rosie O'Donnell movie or something? First kid? Yeah.

Yeah. This is his first, uh, or his third directorial movie, right? Exactly. Yeah. And like, part of what's considered his uvra. So it's signs with Mel Gibson and Joaquin Phoenix and aliens. And some kids. Oh, and some kids.

Not just any kid. You got Little Miss Sunshine and a Culkin. A culk. And we should mention the time why we're doing this and why we're doing this with Ryan is because Ryan hosts a podcast on our network, the Antica Network, called Somewhere in the Skies. Do you want to give us just like a quick summary of what your podcast is about, Ryan? Yeah, absolutely, man. So I have been, you know, interested in the UFO phenomenon ever since I was a kid.

I did have what I perceived to be a UFO sighting when I was 12 years old. Actually up near you guys, this is off of Lake on. Ontario. What, really? Like on the U.S. half? Yeah. On the U.S.

half. Yep. I used to camp right on the border, and I was fishing one night. I look up and I see these three white lights in a triangular formation, that red light in the middle, just floating over the water, completely silent. It was terrifying. I didn't know what the hell I was looking at. I call for my dad to come out and see what it is.

And he's watching a Yankees game inside, so I couldn't really pull him away from that. But he did eventually come out. He did see the tail end of this thing as it floated towards you guys. And I was towards us. Yeah, right towards your house. And yeah, yeah, that fear kind of turned to an obsession. I started looking into the phenomenon ever since. And that led to, you know, interviewing people about having seen UFOs in my hometown of Syracuse, New York, and sort of branching out from there. AOL is big at the time. Chat rooms. and message boards. So I started going on there.

And the rest is sort of history. I heard about more and more sightings that people were having. I started writing for magazines. And that led to a book and then eventually the podcast, which is where the book ended and the journey continued in just, you know, hashing it out with people, having a debate about what these UFOs could be, you know, are they alien? Are they top secret military technology? Are they demonic? I mean, the possibilities are endless about what these things could be.

Whatever they are, they're unidentified. We don't know what they are. But that's kind of what the podcast is about. I bring people on in every walk of life, whether they're, you know, an academic, a scientist, a musician, you know, your local barista, your coffee shop, whatever. I just want to hear what everyone thinks about this topic and what profound implications it could have if we did discover. that, you know, maybe this was alien. Who knows? So, yeah, that's what somewhere in the skies is all about.

That sounds intense. Have you interviewed any lapsed priests who flipped back again after a UFO encounter? I've interviewed someone who actually became a priest afterwards. Oh, really? So that was pretty interesting. Yeah, this guy, he claims that he was abducted by aliens, all right? And during his abduction experience, he says that he saw a symbol by whatever these creatures were that abducted him. And it was, you know, it was a fist or excuse me, it was not a fist.

It was two hands clasped together like praying and a lightning through it. So he perceived this as, oh, I got to start praying. I got to become a priest. Oh, man, it's like alien emojis. If the symbol for Christianity was like a fist and a lightning bolt, I might be a church right now. Yeah, better than a dead guy hanging off a cross. Although Mel Gibson loves that. He sure does.

Yeah, we should probably get into the movie. Well, that sounds great. I think you're going to bring a level of expertise to this stupid movie that we're going to talk about. Yeah, an intensity to usually just gags from us. So let's go around and talk about the first time that we saw signs. And maybe if we had anything with aliens or what we believe in. Yeah. Did you see the signs?

Did it open up your mind? You saw science? I was going to make an ace of base reference. I'm sorry. So I never saw the sign. I never opened up my eyes. You've never seen signs? No, I didn't see it.

No, you know, I loved the first two, I mean, I loved six cents and unbreakable, and I guess I might have missed. I can't remember whether Mel Gibson was already awful at this point. Maybe that was the reason. Not, I mean, we'll get into it maybe a bit more later, but to give you a bit of a context, this movie came out in 2002. Right. Passion of the Christ came out in 2004. Right. And I believe his DUI, where he said that Jews were responsible for all the wars in the world, was 2006.

Oh, okay. So just to give you a little bit of a timeline for Mel Gibson's awfulness. It's hard because our, like, feelings have changed about him. But for some reason, I missed this movie. Oh, you mean, since then? Not like we're okay with him now because he's in Daddy's Home 2. I thought that's why we were doing this. No, I know.

I saw the trailer for that, and I, like, see, like, John Lithgow and Will They're just like keeping an eye on him so he doesn't say anything bad. Yeah. Actually, like, I've been doing some writing for another podcast, and I spent the day researching the atrocities of Mel Gibson for a piece. And then forgot. I was like, okay, time to distract myself with this week's podcast movie. And I had to look at Mel Gibson for two hours more.

But for some reason... Everywhere you turn, he's there. But for some reason... He's on my roof outside my window. I didn't see this movie. and then, like, M. Night Shyamalan became ridiculous. Right. Like, his movie, people just started to question whether or not he was a good director.

Yeah. So I didn't see this one, and I sort of thought that maybe this was maybe on the precipice of him starting to become ridiculous or something. So I never saw it, was sort of interested in it, but just never got around to it. As to the other question, I haven't personally had any experiences with the UFOs or anything like that. My dad's really into a lot of the subject matter, and I remember definitely having old alien magazines lying around the house and spending a lot of time watching the skies and, you know, looking to see what lights were moving and in what sort of patterns. So the subject matter, I think, is interesting to me as well. I don't know whether I believe in all of, in everybody's, like, story about encountering aliens. You don't think Jody Foster's dad is out there on a planet somewhere? Yeah.

My dad's on a planet somewhere. What about you, Jam? I saw this movie in the theater. Yeah. Because I really liked M. Knight at this time. And I really liked this movie at the time. I remember not liking the ending because it felt like the twist had become such a prescribed component of his, movies and I was so into it when they were just kind of barricading themselves in the basement,

which we'll get into, obviously. Oh, great scene. Yeah, so I felt like the end just kind of, it felt like something that was tacked on out of some kind of need to fulfill the audience's expectations that there would be a twist. But I remember really liking, really the music especially stuck out for me, the haunting music. It felt very twilight Sony. So yeah, I really like this movie. As for the UFO question, yeah, I've never had any experiences.

I don't know that I would qualify myself as a believer per se. I do remember when I was a kid, we had a book about UFOs in like our school library. I mean, when I was like seven or eight. And I just thought everything and it was true because it was a book and it was in the library. I just assumed it was there to educate me. And I didn't realize so much later that it was like, oh, there's probably, It was just one of those picture books. They probably got it like the discount section of, you know, coals or whatever. But yeah, I've certainly always been drawn to stories of UFOs and the paranormal, even though I don't necessarily count myself among the believers. What about you, Blaine? I... You can be honest.

Well, we're in safe space. Honest about seeing signs here or not. But, you know, I saw signs when it came out. I loved it. I loved Eminet Sheldeman a lot. And I'm still a Shemoland apologist. I think he's so great. And yeah, I do. Oh, okay. Yeah. And I think he's a great writer. And I think when he's given time to, like, come up with a good script, he usually does.

And I love his direction, especially in this movie. So we'll talk about that. But, yeah, I liked it. I wanted my friends to watch it. It made me want to watch all the rest of his movies. Unbreakable was so good that, like, I don't know. I just like everything he does. And as for the alien question.

You can be honest. I, I, no, I used to, I used to be a person that definitely believed in that. You lost your faith. When I was, and you guys are here to haunt me. You've never talked about your wife's passing on the show before, have you? So, yeah, when I was a teenager, I, I mean, I wanted to be an astronaut. I loved, I got all the books out from my grade school library on astronomy, and they were all alien books beside them.

So I was like, yeah, don't trust books. I know, that's the worst thing. But, yeah, so I was obsessed with aliens when I was a kid. I watched every episode of X-Files twice. I watched the alien autopsy on Fox and convinced my friends on the schoolyard that, like, it was real. They were only wearing wristwatches because, you know, they had wristwatch technology in the government years before they released them. Exactly. And I find digital wristwatches, I know.

I know wristwatches have been around for a while. I find that stuff all really intriguing now. I listened to your, Ryan, your episode on the Andreessen incident. And yeah, that stuff is still fascinating to me. Yeah, I was listening to that too. Yeah. And whether there's any kind of like factual evidence for it or not, I still like that the rumor is out there to make us think that, you know, there could be something more.

And I kind of like that. So what about you, Ryan? When did you first see science? Yeah. So just like you, I did see this in theaters. I tried to poll everyone. I could think of to go see this. Friends, family, anyone I could possibly

my baseball coach. I just wanted people to go see this thing and be like... Be me alone, kiddus. Yeah. Swing and a miss. You asked me to go see a movie, yeah. It's like Field of Dreams if someone did something else to the cornfield. Yes, many people believe this is a sequel, actually.

You like show it to your coach and you're like, see, I was supposed to hit that kid with the baseball. Swing away. Come on. But yeah, I did see it in theaters and by the end of the movie I kind of had that same feeling of that tacked-on ending or whatnot of, oh, okay, this isn't really what I was expecting. So, yeah. But I did. I did really enjoy the film for what it was for kind of the theories that M. Knight brought to it in terms of like the mythology behind you, euphology. the study of UFOs, the decades and decades of research into crop circles and UFOs and alien abductions. They did their homework, definitely, for sure, but we can definitely get into that. Yeah, we didn't even really talk about crop circles so much in our intro.

But yeah, this is kind of like all coming from the sort of, I guess some of them have been exposed as hoaxes, the whole crop circle phenomenon. Maybe you can illuminate. What is kind of the history of crop circles that he's kind of riffing on? So, I mean, crop circles have been around for centuries at this point. It's a very Eurocentric sort of thing. They were seen all over England. And like you said, yeah, a lot of them have been proven to be hoaxed by people who go out there at night. And they use these wooden boards and attach them to their feet and they're stomping the corn down.

And they do. They get groups of 10, 20 people to go out and do this, make these very intricate designs that take all night. and precise measurements, and there's a lot of preparation. It sounds so fun. Can you imagine? Like, just getting drunk and going out and doing this. And then the next day, people are saying, oh, my God, aliens are invaded. It seems like a really good time.

They clearly did. Because it kind of doesn't even really make sense. Like, even in this movie where the crop circles are made by the aliens, that should have been the twist. Like, oh, no, it was just the drunken neighbors. It has nothing to do with the aliens. The Wolfingtons, yeah. Yeah.

No, but because they say, like, oh, they were using them as. maps. It's like, well, how did they master space travel, but they don't have, like, GPS? Or, like, why is that the best method for... Also, just use an arrow, you know? It's more specific. I thought, like, the crop circles were supposed to be, like, where the spaceship landed and flattened the corn.

Is that not what... No, because they're intricate designs. Oh, in history. In history, maybe, yeah. I mean, the first ones, before they got all fancy. Before they got super, yeah. For Banksy got into it. It's like doing latte art for your drink, you know.

But yeah, there's many theories on, you know, why, why these things are showing up. If they were alien, you know, is it a message? If so, what kind of message are they conveying with these super weird things? Like, who's going to decipher this? So I thought it was interesting in the movie how it was a map that they used to look at from above as they're invading. So I actually really enjoyed Mnights take on that. sure, whether that's true to any actual theories on what it could be. Who knows?

And honestly, like, there's so many theories nobody really knows anyways. So I enjoyed that aspect of it. Great. Well, let's get into the movie. Let's do a little bit of a rundown, Rob. Okay. So it sort of starts with Mel Gibson. He wakes up.

I know. Already. He hears a scream, and he, like, you know, his kids are, like, calling for him. So he wakes up his little brother, Joaquin Phoenix, and they go running out into the cornfield. And he's realized that someone has flattened his corn. And that makes him really upset. It takes a while to grow. Yeah.

It's annoying. Is he farming that corn? Oh, yeah. Maybe it isn't his corn. I was confused about that because he's like a priest. Yeah, there's no farmer in his family. Unless the little kids are farming, I don't know. They don't seem to go to school.

It doesn't get confusing. It's a pretty big plot hole. We don't know whose farm this is. Is this Mel Gibson's life? Yeah. Yeah. Maybe his wife was a corn farmer. Oh, yeah.

It's really sexist of us not to assume that his wife could be a corn farmer. My wife planted this corn before she died. Yeah. But anyway, so it's like this weird, like symbol. And Mel Gibson, I mean, the character doesn't know what to think. But, you know, we bet Mel Gibson probably has his ideas of what these weird symbols were. Maybe I... Some of the jokes just are too obvious.

Yeah. God damn. But so he actually thinks it's like probably just some local kids or something like that. So we like call somebody. But then some other weird stuff starts happening like the dog pees on the floor. So the weirdest thing to happen in this movie. It's pretty spooky. And, you know, we get to sort of like see his like family a little bit.

We get like his kids. There is Little Miss Sunshine and the youngest Culkin. Little Culkin. Rory, I believe his name is. Are they all weird now? Did they all turn weird, or is it just like... They all have bands. They'll have food-related blue reed bands.

But animals seem to be acting weird. Like, at one point, the dog, like, attacks, like, the kid, and they have to, like, stab the dog. Yeah, the kid stabs the dog. The kid takes down a dog, yeah, it's crazy. They're weird kids. Yeah. He's working his way up to battling home invaders. micro machines

So he files a police report We got like the police officer I don't know she's the sheriff or whatever She's a great actor I've seen her in like a bunch of stuff She's the professor on transparent Yeah And I was like why is she so familiar

She's in an episode of Black Mirror too It was like a trucker Oh Cherry Jones Yeah she's so great Yeah I kind of didn't like her in this Well

Oh really? No It's hard because I'm Knight Shaleman gets the most wooden performances from he's like hey what you're doing is acting and I don't like it stop it just say the lines without any emotion yeah in a weird stilted way yeah exactly yeah maybe is it okay to talk about now because it is weird how still and yeah like dry and airless everything is right off the bad like I was watching my wife watched the beginning of it with me and you know

seeing it now as parents like the scene where the kid has stabbed the dog yeah and meld gipson just kind of slowly walks over and stands there for several minutes. She's like, what happened? He fell on us. And you're like, a parent would stab that dog again and again. You'd run over. You'd hug your kid. They're like, oh my God, what happened?

Like, holy shit. You stabbed the dog. Are you okay? You have PTSD? Too bad you don't have a mom to comfort you. Just rubbing in his kid's faces all the time. Yeah. Everything seems very posed.

Yeah. And like the dialogue is like very like scripty. Like he fell on us. Yeah. The dog attacked us. And other filmmakers do it too, like Largos Lathemos or whatever. Yeah, the guy who does... I just saw Sacred Deer.

Yeah. Oh, cool. I kind of liked it, yeah. Okay. Yeah, and the lobster was a big one. He does like really still scenes and people don't emote all, but like when they do, they do. And that's like they break and that's so lovely to watch. It's kind of played for comedy, too.

I think it's supposed to be funny. Yeah. I don't think this is supposed to be funny. No, no. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, some parts are still. It's interesting. Yeah, I mean, this takes place in what?

Pennsylvania, I believe it is. 45 miles outside of, yeah, Pittsburgh. Oh, right. Yeah. They give the exact location. Yeah. It's very rural town. I wonder, like, is this a family who's so down on what's going on around them?

You've got, like, the failed baseball player in Joaquin Phoenix. You've got the failed priest, as it were. And these two kids who are just so naive. at the time. They have no idea what's going on. I feel like, yeah, the energy in the beginning of this movie is just non-existent. And then as it progresses, we'll get some pretty

emotional scenes with Mel Gibson later on in the film. But it is very interesting how dull they seem to be in the beginning. Yeah. And like the colors kind of washed out of it too. Like it's a pretty dull movie to start with. I'm glad that these crop circles showed up.

Jesus, give these people. I was like that dog peed on the floor Yeah Add some color to the scene Yeah I think as we'll find out It all happened for a reason It was meant to be

But Chiria Jones Is kind of the first person That comes in and gives Some comedy to it Because she's saying that like There are a woman high jumpers Oh yeah that was so weird Yeah it's weird

But it's meant to be weird I don't know Yeah so we should say Mel Gibson sees an alien Outside of his window And runs out Yeah And chasing him

Yeah, and then they're like describing it. Presumably because he thinks he's some kind of minority. Well, aliens on this planet are. He is. Yeah. That's true. Yeah. Oh, maybe this is a metaphor. Yeah.

Oh, shit. Yeah. She says like, you know, are you sure that it was a man you saw? Couldn't have been a woman. Yeah. And then Joaquin Phoenix is like, it sure wasn't no woman because I haven't seen a woman run like that or something like that. Yeah. And then she's like, well, I've seen women Olympians.

And they got them Swedish high jumpers. Yeah. But you know what? I kind of like that for her character because she's a small town cop that's probably had to talk about what woman can do for the longest time. I don't know. But I feel like if she was a real person, she'd be like, well, I can run pretty fast. I'm a police officer. She's like, I saw the Olympics once and there were women on that.

It is strange. It's really weird. And then Joaquin kind of calls her out for it. He's like, yeah, can we get past this to talk about what really happened? I did read that one of the original designs for, for the aliens was going to be like this A high jumper. Yeah, it was going to be literally just Swedish high jumpers.

No, it was, it jumped too high. It went to another planet. No, it was going to be like this more feminine physique. Maybe to play with the idea that it's all a metaphor for Mel Gibson's haunted, you know, being haunted by his dead wife, almost like a hilarious thing maybe. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. But also that would make that scene make a little more.

sense if it was kind of, could have been construed as possibly a female. Right. But they're not. The guy is like six feet tall and he's on a roof. Yeah. And he ran. Any ran. Unlike, you know, that thing women don't do.

Except for in the Olympics. Well, they have those heels on all the time. Yeah. They can do it in Jurassic World. Yeah. Anything's possible. So we've talked a lot about what the alien looked like in this movie. What's kind of the theories behind or what have people seen in an abduction and

stuff in your experience, Ryan? Yeah, are they like feminine? Yeah, are they Swedish high jumpers that don't like water? I mean, are they available? Are they on Tinder? Tinder for aliens. Yeah. So, I mean, it really runs the gamut here, guys.

I mean, I've heard everything from these prototypical grays, these small, you know, skinny, very androgynous creatures with the big black eyes. We know it. It's so big in pop culture. That's the main one that I've come across. And they seem to be like drone-like almost, that they don't have any emotion. They're just sort of acting very robotically. Are we sure they're not in an M. Night Shylin Man movie?

That could be the... He's directing one. But it's really pants. They never wear pants. They're like Donald the Duck. It's fine. Donald the Duck? Yeah.

Donald the Duck. He never wears pants. It's just Donald Duck. There's no the. His last name's Duck. I think it's because your mom bought you some weird off-brand Disney products where they couldn't say Donald Duck. Yeah, and Neptune, the dog. It's fine.

It's all, yeah. Sorry, so we have the, like, the grays. I know they're kind of like the tall green guys, too. You got the tall green reptilians, yeah, these lizard-like creatures. Well, those are just our overlords that control the government. Right. Yeah, they have a human mask on. When are they going to do something about Donald Trump?

You think our lizard overlords would be getting a little bit concerned. The Democrats? Yeah, I mean, probably. That's literally where we are right now. Guys, I mean, as an American, if they haven't done it by now, I am no faith in these higher intelligences. That being said, you know, those are another one. And then these, it's funny, you mentioned the sort of Swedish tall thing. That's another big one in alien.

mythology are these Nordic like tall, blonde, blue-eyed humanoid-looking things that are often reported in abduction experiences overseeing what these little gray aliens are doing to the humans. So it's fascinating. Oh, man. They're complete. An interesting thing. Yeah, yeah. They're all working together, this galactic federation.

I didn't know that white supremacy was like intergalactic. It is galactic, man, at this point. Choice hotels get you more of what you value. Comfort in It's calling your name Save on the stay Oh And free waffles are yours to claim

Book direct at Storeshiltails.com Wow So at this point It's not just happening to them in the movie Like they've started There's been other occurrences That they see on TV

I think at this point There's like a whole bunch of ships Over Mexico City and they're just sort of like floating there. Yeah, they can't get into the States because of that wall. It's 20 feet high. You'll build it bigger. That's what it's to keep out, aliens.

Right, yeah. It's not on the news. And we also learned like a bunch of stuff about like the characters too. Like Joaquin Phoenix character used to be a baseball player. Well, in another weird scene, they all go into town. And they all kind of split off. It's the weirdest thing. It's such weird scenes.

Like the scene with Joaquin Phoenix is And the Army guy He's considering Army recruiter and the Army. Yeah, I guess he's considering joining the Army to fight the aliens. I don't know why this is coming up now. But that's an actor.

The Army guy's one of those weird things where he's like Hey, don't I know you from somewhere? And then a minute later he was like, hey, you're Merrill, whatever. It's like, I saw you do this. And then he knows all his statistics. It's like, wow, you really jumped from not knowing him at all to knowing everything

about him. Yeah. Yeah, it's weird. But then he doesn't know that he like sucks at swinging. Right. Yeah. That's his statistics. But also it's like the weird dialogue because he says something like, hey, why aren't you like in a bed full of money with women licking your toes?

Oh, man. Who thinks that's a thing? And weirdly delivered. Because this actor is taking like such delicacy with every line is so weird. It's like, I know you. It's such a weird delivery. Yeah. If the reveal had been that that was an.

alien who killed the real army guy in town? I would not have been surprised. Yeah, he was sitting in IKEA furniture. And then if the scene wasn't weird enough, a guy that we hadn't seen in the scene prior played by Michael Showalter for some reason. It's like, he's a terrible baseball player. He swung at every pitch. And then Joaquin Phoenix says, fell wrong not to swing, which point I said, then you do not understand baseball. That's not how baseball works. Felt wrong not to swing. It's a nice metaphor. but it's literally not how the game is played.

It's like a race car driver. It felt wrong not to crash. It's like, you don't know the whole thing of your sport. It's like a hockey player being like, I don't want to use a stick. It's a metaphor for life or something. This was like the most, the meanest way to give exposition to a character ever. I fucking hated learning about these characters because it was always delivered in this really odd stilted way. Yeah.

Let's get the guy from Stella to shit talk Joaquin Phoenix. I could, oh, like, I was like, that can't be him. It's so, it must be like just someone who looks like him because it's such a bit role in this weird movie. Like, it's not anything up his alley. He's never done another movie like this. I don't think so. Yeah.

It's so weird. And the next thing, weird thing that happens after that is because they're all in town and they see M. Night Shyamalan coming. Walking to his, like, car with some groceries. And then they're like, is that him? Yeah. Like, yes. The director?

That's the man making this terrible movie. It feels like a scene from like, you know, like a freaky 60s postmodern play where everyone realizes they're in a movie. Is that our author? But then, like, what we find out eventually is it's not just like a cameo, like a Hitchcockian cameo where he like, you know, shows up holding groceries and then we're never going to see him again. Or like an unbreakable when he's like a doctor or like in six cents. Yeah. Like Mel Gibson's big thing is that he lost it. his faith when his wife died. She died in this terrible car accident. And we later find out...

And we don't know how terrible it is yet. It's so terrible. Give M. Night Shyamalan credit. He definitely ramps it up and like feeds us the information a little bit. Oh, it's so great. But we find out that M. Night Shyamalan is the guy who killed his wife. Well, he needed to start the story somehow. Yeah, but he probably actually did kill someone's wife. And he said, it's all happening for a reason. I want to put in a swimming pool. The movie's going to be big. It's weird. It is weird.

It's really weird. And I learned recently that M. Knight actually didn't tell Mel Gibson that he was going to be playing that role until moments before they started filming. No kidding. He would have been like, what? You can't get me like Ian Holm or somebody? It does feel like these first, like this first run of movies that he had, he was almost just like making movies to Trojan horse his acting career. in a way. Like he's just building up a reel for himself

and accidentally making hit movies. Yeah, at least Sir Lohen did it in earnest. You're like, all right, yeah, that's good. I know what you're doing. Have you shown James Cameron my audition? The other problem is he's not very good. Oh, yeah.

He's the most wooden of them all. It's like he gives line readings to everyone. They're like, oh, just do it like that. But he's actually just a bad actor. That's why he directs actors in that way. He's like he doesn't want anyone to give a better performance than him. Right. That's good.

My other big thing is when we realize that he is the person who killed, killed his wife, Mo Gibson's wife. Is he not? Yeah, it was an accident. But, I mean, was there no repercussion to that? I know he feels that inner guilt. But, you know, it seems like he's just running around town, get in his groceries. You know, he seems to be the only non-white person in this town.

Yeah. Yeah, wouldn't he at least get like his license suspect? or something. Yeah. You do have to wonder, yeah. If I, like, killed some guy's wife in my town, I would probably relocate. Also, in one... Or apologize.

Or apologize. Well, that's the other thing. We find out later in the movie, he hasn't apologized. He's been waiting to apologize all this time. So, yeah, it's just weird. I just thought I would, you know, see you randomly and stare at you weirdly. Yeah. And then I, you know, say, sorry.

And you'd be like, cool. I'm sorry for locking you in the bathroom. No, you killed my wife. Oh, right, sorry. But then, okay, we should probably get into some of the themes of the movie. And the way I want to go about that is by mentioning, well, first there's the conversation between Mel Gibson and Joaquin Phoenix where, you know, Mel Gibson's kind of talking about how he lost his faith and saying, like, you know, there are people that see, you know,

see things and think their luck, think they happen for a reason. Other see signs. Some people just see coincidence. Some people don't see signs. and then they kill somebody in their car. Is that what this movie's about? Yeah, there was a speed limit sign right there. No, but then when M. N. Nishamalan talks to Mel Gibson is like, I'm so sorry and all that

because he's kind of called him to his house. And then he says, he's describing, you know, he was on that road and there was no car for miles. He's never fallen asleep before. And it's like, it's like it almost happened for a reason. Yeah. And if I was meant to be like, fuck you. Boom, punch right in the face.

Yeah. We know he has a temper. Why isn't he using it now? That's so insulting to say to someone. Don't you think? Yeah. No, it's pretty bad. They keep saying, like, it was meant to be.

Like, that's the phrase that you say when you, like, fall in love with somebody. You know, like, I saw him from across the room and, you know, I just knew it was meant to be. I was meant to kill his wife. Yeah. Exactly. In the most brutal, gruesome way possible, which we'll get to. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

I feel like that's an interesting observation because we often hear, you know, with religion and whatnot playing a big role in this, like, oh, it was, you know, it was meant to be like God wanted this to happen. And I often, you know, say to myself, isn't that just an excuse for the way humans behave? You're pinning the blame on something else. Does everyone who suffers tragedy have this? Are there always clues given out before someone dies? like animals going to alien invasion yeah yeah exactly yeah like I don't know dog pee's on the floor yeah call around then your wife's about to divorce you so watch I don't know I just found that kind of insulting yeah no yeah it's pretty bad the other thing that I found insulting was that he just says

oh and they don't like water boom and drives away and I was like as a as a viewer I was like well shit like we could have kind of maybe figured that out later in the movie without you saying it he also says he caught one in his pantry. Yeah. And then Mel Gibson goes and, you know, takes a look at it. I kind of feel like the other thing. This is a great scene. I really like that scene personally.

But like, are people doing this all over the world? Because on the news, they never say, like, we caught one and here's what it looks like. It's always just like shaky birthday party. But like this random veterinarian is able to capture one. I don't know. It just felt like almost like I wish they had had just. Well, what is he having his pantry? You know?

That's the question. Like alien bait. That's a good point, too. Again, like you guys mentioned earlier, these things, whatever they are, traveled, how far to get here, they have the intelligence to do that to get here. And then they're getting locked in a wooden pantry and they can't figure a way out. Yeah. They can't just, they don't know that this one thing on Earth supposedly is their weakness, which again, we'll get to. The thing that covers 75% of the globe.

How dumb these aliens are. Why did they pick this planet? if, like you said, 75% of this planet is what could feasibly kill them. It just in that point. And there's humidity. Yeah. And also, that's like a really off of War of the Worlds, like with the, with the germs. But that's a little different.

And the other thing is like, because at the end of them. Wells, come on. You know, at the end of the movie, they shut themselves in and the aliens are trying to attack their house. What, what's, what it's the alien's plan? They're just like, they're going house to house. I think it's spooky people. They just want to spook people. They just want to steal the souls of asthmatic.

children. That's clearly what is happening in that one scene. Look, I don't want to be a bother, but our ship is powered by the asthmatic gasps of small children. You got any calkins around? Oh, man. But the other thing, like,

because I really liked this movie when I was younger, like I said, but I feel like a lot of people were turned off, a lot of people that weren't religious were turned off by what they thought was very kind of preachy. Yeah, it was a religious message. And I always saw it I kind of dug it because I saw it almost more as a metaphor.

It was almost more about like believing in yourself or not like torpedoing your whole life and your path just because, you know, tragedy befalls you. And just the idea of a priest losing faith is kind of like a very extreme version of that story. So I kind of connected to that. But watching it now like with the thing, you know, saying like, oh, it was meant to be and all that. And then again, Mel Gibson says, like, someone did save us or something. Like, it felt more preachy to me now than it did then. Well, and that's what happens when you have, like, a theme that you're setting up and you're really strong-arming it. And you want everyone to know what your theme is.

Like, why does he have to be, like, a priest? Yeah. And why did Looking at Phoenix have to be, like, the best baseball hitter? Yeah. Well, yeah, because, like, other movies have themes, and then we can pick them apart on podcasts like this. And it's really fun to, like, get into the nitty-gritty on that. But this, there's no, there's no. a wiggle room for people to kind of talk about

the theme and be like, maybe it meant this and maybe he saw signs here. It's called signs. And he says some people look for signs. Exactly. And the other thing is that like the kind of problem with all of M. Night Shyamalan's movies which I think we've talked about is that like yeah, they sort of rely on like

this on these writing tricks, right? But I mean, they're just kind of like, it's just, they're just sort of tricks, you know? Once you sort of like see the mechanism and like it's easy for M. Night Shyamalan as an author to like write in all these coincidences at the beginning and then sort of fill them out at the end. But in a fiction film like that doesn't seem like a miracle. That just seems like, oh,

he like made a very easy connection. Yeah. Well, not even cleverness. Well, I think that there was a twist in Unbreakable and there was a twist in Sixth Sense. I don't know if I'd call this a twist. I think that's what kind of really people hated from this movie too was because they went to see a big twist at the end. And this was just kind of like all these things are coming together and now you understand what we've been saying the entire movie. Or should we get into the ending then? Yeah. Yeah.

Because after they barricade themselves in and it seems like the aliens have left. Yeah, the aliens just sort of like leave on their own accord around the world. Yeah. But they leave someone behind. Yeah. Well, they leave, like E.T. Yeah. The news tells us that people are that the wounded have been left behind.

Yeah. And so they're still like attacking. And at one point like, they're still raiding pantries, which was their main objective. If you got caught in a pantry, we don't want you on our arms. right anymore. We're out of here. Well, so, yeah, they, like, spend the night barricaded, and, like, Mel Gibson has this, like, crisis of faith.

Maybe we should, like, play a clip from that. Sure. Yeah. Be dreamed this. Stay with me. I know. It hurts. Be strong, baby.

It'll pass. It's, like, you know, some powerful Mel Gibson-y acting. Yeah? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's, you know, it's hard to, like, sympathize with him, but, Well, as an actor, for sure. But as his character, I don't know, I think it's kind of easy.

For me, it was easy to sympathize with his character. Well, no, for sure. Like, he's, like, trying to, his kids having an asthma attack, and he doesn't have the medication and he can't go to get it because the aliens out there. And so he's, like, holding his child to his chest and trying to get him to relax. Well, and saying, like, please don't do this to me again. Like, that's, that's that thing where he starts to believe, again, right then and there because he's, he thought he was at rock bottom.

this is worse. And I think that's what people do with religion. They turn to it when they're when they're not feeling great. And so it's, I think it's that, it's that moment that I think is so beautiful in the film when he hates God, but because he hates God, he believes in him. And so there's this kind of like thing where he believes again, but also he hates that he believes again at the same time. And I think that's a really beautiful moment. Yeah. But then, so they survive the night and they go out and the alien is still around or he actually like sees the reflection in the TV. The alien's just watching TV. He just wants to see what's on, you know?

Yeah. Try to find his fingers. And he like, so he like picks up, the alien picks up Rory Culkin and is like holding him like, but he's about to take his bride over the threshold or something like that. I kind of like, I kind of like the way he's holding him because it's reminiscent of every alien abduction ever where people are pulled up by their chests and their arms and legs are kind of splayed out to the side. I thought that was kind of like a cool image. But he's also, the alien is also like, you know, like sort of like rhythmically. of like moving.

He's dancing. It's a samba. Yeah. Yeah. And then that's, I was just going to add, guys, that's, this is the part where I think the movie kind of really let everyone down because it was all CGI. And up to this point, you know, he was pretty ambiguous with these aliens.

Like we never truly see them. We see them in a small home video thing, which was terrifying in my thing. It's like jobs, right? Yeah, exactly. is another case with, you know, many films where they're showing so much at the end that, like, there's nothing left to the imagination at that point. Yeah. He tries.

Like, he tries to see the alien through this television screen, which really dims the alien. He tries to backlight the alien so we don't see too much definition. Like, I feel like he tries as a director to hide as much as he can, but still show the whole thing. Which is hard. But there's so many great scenes earlier where we just get those glimpses like the home video in Brazil and like when he's out in the cornfield and he just sees the leg and just kind of disappear and I come

and also the pantry scene I remember them all being like big jump scares but there's no sound accompanying them they're just but you know I think people in the theater when I saw it were you know reacting as if there was a crazy noise yeah yeah yeah they paid people to sit in the theater

and go ah like who the fuck is that yeah but they're like I think like the twist if it is a twist is that like You know, all of the, like, coincidences are all, like, the, you know, little minutia of, like, the movie. Like, yeah, he's a baseball player. Yeah, the kid leaves the water around. And it's all to come down to this moment where he remembers the last line that his wife says.

And there's, like, a flashback to it while the alien is, like, holding the kid for, like, five minutes. He's like, wait, I got to remember my wife dying. He remembers his whole life before he goes on stage. No, for sure. It's a long flashback. And then he puts together his wife's dying words were to tell him, hey, tell Joaquin Phoenix

to beat that fucking alien to death with a baseball bat. No, no. Rob, Rob, he was, she was vaguer than that. She actually just said swing away, which was confusing for a while because it had no specifics. Oh.

Said, uh, C, C, swing away, Merrill. Why didn't you say something about the aliens? I told Meryl to sign up for swing dance lessons. You're swinging away down there. You got a swing set in her backyard that I won't let him off. It's horrible. No, but it's just, I don't know. Actually, I still think the moment kind of works just because the formal elements of it is so great.

The music's so great. The way it's edited. The direction is so great. It makes it feel like something is, yeah, it makes it feel like something huge is happening. Yeah, the vertigo shot that goes right up to his face. Like, you stream close out. Yeah. You're like, I'm too close to MacG up.

Way too close. I think my favorite line in this whole movie where you really get your heart pull, is when Mel Gibson says to the sheriff, you know, is this the last time I'm ever going to speak to my wife? In that moment alone just got me so much. And she says, yes. Yeah, yeah. We can't imagine being in issues at that point.

Of course I would lose my faith after that. But yeah, this whole flashback scene was very interesting. And then you get the whole swing away aspect, you know, supposedly in that moment of trauma to her and the neurons are, you know, firing her brain. and she thinks she's at one of Merrill's old baseball games. That's what he thinks is happening. Right.

And then we find out like, no, she's actually. She's at St. Peter's Gates and God's like, hey, give the message. I like the thing of like. I'm going to be sending aliens to Earth. And one of them is going to get like real close to killing your kids. You better tell Mel Gibson. Yeah. But I like the idea of the daughter because she never finishes water because she says it's contaminated.

or there are all these glasses of water in the room and that's, you know, like we find at the alien's weakness that they're able to use. I like that. Yeah. But the swing away thing just seemed weird because it's like it almost feels like they shouldn't even need a clue to be like, hey, grab a baseball bat and beat the shit out of this thing. Like, why do they need a hint? Use anything.

Use your fist for Christ's sake. Oh, I wish you hadn't have said that because we had a gun upstairs we could have gotten it. If it wasn't thinking about swinging away, I could have gotten the shotgun from the bedroom. Yeah, there was five minutes while I was just standing there. He had a long time to do that. My question is if all of this, like, trauma and everything, like, if, like, his whole wife's, like, basic existence was just for this, like, moment,

like, what the fuck's going to happen when they run into problems after this movie? He's going to be like, oh, I remembered another thing my dead wife said. She just died. Signs, too. And also sucks for the wife that, like, this was God's design. And, I don't know, maybe Mel Gibson could have gotten hit by the car, and she could have told Merrill to swing away. Or God could have been like, aliens, don't go to Earth.

I don't know. Yeah, there's a lot of things. There's a lot of things God could do. Well, I mean, that brought up a lot of questions for me. Like, if this is indeed a movie where, like, God exists and God is doing all this for a reason, he must have sent the aliens. Why? That seems like a pretty dick move. And also.

He wanted to ruin a five-year-old's birthday party. That's the thing you wanted to do. Or make that five-year-old's birthday party awesome. Yeah, yeah. Well, we couldn't afford a magician. but look, it's a seven-foot-tall lizard man. I've got a pretty, I don't know, if you guys want to entertain this, I've got a pretty big theory on why this all may have happened.

I don't know. Just because Mel Gibson was a shit. Pretty much. I feel like Bo, the little girl in this movie, is probably my favorite character by far. A lot of people have theorized that she is, even Mel Gibson, says at one point, you know, when you were born, everyone just said how much of an angel you were and this and that. And then she's got these water all over the place. And the theory is out there that she's almost this angelic figure and that these aliens are demonic in a sense. And this is all a test

of faith to see how humans would react. And we're getting this by Satan. They're sent by Satan. Well, yeah, this was the first time I'd watched this movie since I'd read that theory too. And it does factor into it, especially I was noticing in the way everyone keeps talking about it, like it's the end of the world, which is a weird way to just react to like lights in the sky. So I think that's definitely there. Yeah. Well, and part of it like, even hearing them being like, well, we've, we've, three cities in, like, near Jerusalem figured it out. Like, it's kind of like, it kind of feels like, well, we're trying to do that. A child was born. Yeah. Yeah. There's one big light in the sky. Yeah. It's a one guy. One guy. the way, but then we crucified him. Yeah. Mel Gibson crucified him. Well, and it kind of very violently.

And it kind of speaks to like, maybe they weren't allergic to water coming to this planet, but they were allergic to like holy water. And if this young girl is an angel, then she like already like sanctified this water.

And so all this water was holy water. They were splashing. But Eminemnon says that they don't like water. Did he make holy water too? He's just a veterinarian. I don't know. Maybe they make holy water for dogs.

He had like a holy water thing in his pantry. Yeah, he had a whole come in handy. He had a can of holy pringles in the pantry to do the alien. Yeah. Holy pork and beans. I think the weird thing about like having like a faith-based sort of message in this, other than Mel Gibson being like kind of like a religious zealot, so it sort of feels uncomfortable, is that like by having M. Night Shyamalan in this movie

and by having him plays like such a integral role, I mean, metaphylmically, he's God in this movie, right? Yeah. Definitely, like, because he had to kill that character's wife in order to start the story. Yeah. He told them how to get rid of the aliens, so he knew something that no one else could possibly know. And he wrote a scene where everyone's like, it's him. Yeah, he wanted to feel important on set for a day, yeah, for sure.

And that's weird and, I don't know, just kind of lame, I think. Ah, I don't know. I think it's kind of fun that he puts himself into the movies like Hitchcock did with like this cool, like, kind of spot him thing. Yeah, but if he could act, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, it's clear. On one hand, I like it. Yeah, Hitchcock is a huge inspiration.

I mean, that whole scene where the aliens are invading the home is right out of birds. There's no denying that whatsoever. And I feel like, yeah, he goes that extra step where it just becomes annoying when he has more than a minute of dialogue in his own movie. Whereas Hitchcock, you know, you just might see him in the background somewhere walking by or doing whatnot. Or in like a newspaper or something, yeah. The other thing that occurred to me, I wanted to mention, is speaking of the birds, it felt a lot like the short story of the birds, which all takes place in a farmhouse and it's about a family. So in a way it almost feels like an alternate version of what the birds could have been. That's cool.

That's a cool way to look at it, too. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, it also borrows a lot in non-Hitchcock from War of the World. It's like there is the original radio play, not the original radio play because it's from a book, but the radio play version. Well, that should have been the twist. The twist should have been like they were just watching a mockumentary on TV. Yeah, that's right. They weren't paying enough attention to the commercials.

Media literacy, folks. But, like, that part where they, yeah, they deliver, like, all of the news through, I mean, the news on TV, like, feels very much like, like, the radio program. Yeah, yeah, it's good. Or also, like, there's, like, little bits where they, you know, they're talking, like, the people on the ground and they're just, like, regular people going about their lives and not knowing how to, like, sort of, like, deal with this sort of crisis. And that sort of like feels like a microcosm of what's happening with Mel Gibson. Like his isn't the main story. You know, he doesn't kill all the aliens and stop the invasion like Will Smith does. He's, you know, just like a small sort of like adjacent sort of story, which was really interesting.

We barely even see like the alien get killed. Like, he kind of leaves the house with his kids and we see it through the window. Well, we can't see the alien is smashed in face or whatever. No, but the alien takes so many hits. It's really tough. My question, what do they do with that body? Like, did they give... Alien autopsy, buried in the cornfield.

Put a wristwatch on it. Did they bring it to Area 51? Yeah, you don't know at that point. It's like, where does Earth go from here? They were just invaded. We have an alien body. Like, what do we do now? Yeah, science too.

So do we want to go around and talk about if we thought this movie was rewatchable, Rob? I'm going to be honest. I did not love this movie. And I sort of feel like there are parts of it that I just don't want to like. I don't want to like the theme of like Faith and I don't want to like Mel Gibson. And I don't want to like an M. Night Shamlan movie for some reason. So it's kind of hard to get around that. Yeah.

Yeah. And like so much of like the acting is like wooden and the script is like weird. But at the same time, like I feel like I should probably give it another shot at some other time. And maybe I might enjoy it at that point. But I don't know. I was really on the fence. I'm going to say like mildly rewatchable because I think there's a lot of really good stuff in here. I think even Mel Gibson's pretty good.

But it's not, I don't know. It was kind of a chore to watch. What about you, Jam? That music's so good. I love the music. I think there's. What were the opening credits too? Yeah.

Like just that little touch of piano and it's great music. There are some scenes I just think are. fantastic. Like that scene where he's out in the cornfield and he sees the leg. Yeah. I just, I thought we're so suspenseful and so scary. And, and the restraint that they have by making them silence and I don't know. And if it had ended with, you know, without, with just them in that basement or, you know, what have you. I think it would be a better movie. Also, Mel Gibson's hard to watch. Yeah. It's hard. I mean, I feel like I can still watch lethal weapon because it's just like he just feels like rigs.

But watching a movie where I'm less, I know the character less, it just feels like, ah, it's just that guy I don't like. And now he's in movies again. And it's weird. I hope he's not listening. No. I hope he is listening. He's our biggest fan.

No, I don't know. So it's a lot of contradictions watching this movie. And I do feel like I, you know, I think like, you know, UFO, culture, like a part of me. Like, I love stories. Even though I'm not religious, I do love stories of religion if I don't feel like they are being preachy.

Yeah. If it's not like God is not dead or whatever. Well, as long as it's not like trying to preach to me directly. Like even the setup. Change your ways, Jam. Kevin Sorbo. Well, yeah, speaking of Kevin Sorbo, that I was going to just say, like, the kind of setup of this movie, I feel like has

been really adopted by Christian film. Go, the Exorcist did it first. The Exorcist did it too, but it was like the guy's mom or something. But the similar kind of thing, like the Kevin Sorbo movie, that movie The Shack that came out, it's always like the guy's got a dead kid or a dead wife. And he's become an atheist. It's weird that they named a very religious movie The Shack, because that's like a horror movie title,

like a porn movie. It just feels like it's not a religious movie title. That is the least of that movie's problems, by the way. No, so I don't know. Like, I didn't feel like it was always that preaching. I do like movies that are kind of, you know, play with the mythology of religion or, you know, the message of religion, even though I'm not necessarily religious.

So I didn't, but even like the ending where he's like, I would have liked the ambiguous ending where we don't totally know where we're left with this character, spirituality. You know he's going to find his faith at the end. They always do. Yeah, but literally last. I don't believe it still. The last shot of the movie is him trying on his priest outfit.

Yeah. That was just a little too much. And then going, yay church, running up the door. Would you like to learn more about your local church? You go to www.god.com. Oh, God has a website now. Yeah, yeah. And Instagram.

I'd say mildly rewatchable. I still think it's got enough really good scenes housed inside of a movie that's off and on for me. What about you, Blaine? I love this movie. I really think it's a great movie. I think the direction is amazing. Not of the actors, but of the camera. Tack Fujimoto was the DOP.

and he's amazing in this movie. And I think the acting is wooden, but it's not as wooden as like all his other movies from here on out. Like the airbender was just cardboard cutouts, people mouthing words. Yeah, when they ran out of planks of wood to barricade the house, they should have been like, can we use the wooden acting and somehow nail that to the door?

Right. But I love the story. I think it really does come together in the end. And I think people were disappointed because it wasn't quite a twilight. twist and it wasn't, but it was also too heavy-handed to be, like, not a twist. So he just kind of fell in this weird area, which I forgive him for. And, and, uh, you love him. I do. I really like him. I know, I like him. Um, what about you, Ryan? Uh, yeah, I'm, I, I would have to agree. I, I, I definitely think it's rewatchable. I love the score. There's some wonderful vignettes. Like you said,

the leg leaving the cornfield and the, the fingers under the, I think there's some amazing images in this movie. Now, in terms of like the overall message, I do struggle with that. And I struggle all the time with just this whole UFO thing, you know, what I, what I believe versus what hundreds of people are telling me on a day-to-day basis that they're seeing. So I think this was the movie where M-night really started to try something new. But at the same time, I struggle with that third act where it's all kind of spoon-fed to us. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know if I like the message the movie was trying to convey, but I certainly liked the whole alien aspect. So, yeah, it's rewashed.

Awesome. Well, thanks, Ryan, so much for coming on the show. Yeah, thanks, Ryan. Thank you, again, guys. I mean, I've been listening forever, and it was an honor to finally come on. And, of course, it would be an alien movie. Yeah, but we did Fire in the Sky, and we... Oh, yeah.

I would have loved to have done that. I've met Travis Walton on several occasions, and I'll tell you right now, if there's any alien abduction case, I genuinely believe that would be the one. And I would stake my quote unquote UFO career on that. Well, the movie's convincing. Yeah. So thank you very much coming on. Where can they find your podcast? All my episodes, bonus material, all that can be found at somewhere in the skies.com.

Okay, great. Thanks so much. And you can find us at rewatchability.com. You can go on iTunes and subscribe and rate us at a five stars. You can go to patreon.com slash rewatchability if you want to throw us a bone. And you can go to Facebook and Twitter to talk to us. Yeah, I just want to clarify we don't want actual bones. No.

No? Okay. That would have worked if this was a dog movie. Greetings, everyone. Ryan Sprague, our host of Somewhere in the Skies. For over seven years. more than 400 episodes. The Summer in the Sky's podcast has always been free to listen to, but it's not free to create. So we offer several ways to help support our efforts and get rewards

in return. If you listen to the podcast on Apple, you can click the subscribe button at the top of your Somewhere in the Sky's feed to become a premium Apple subscriber. Or you can join our Patreon campaign with several tiers available. Both of these options give you the same benefits and rewards. Add free episodes, early access to the main show, and bonus episodes and content. Help keep the lights on at the Summer in the Skies H.Q. And help us continue to grow by becoming a Patreon subscriber at patreon.com slash somewhere skies. Or by clicking the subscribe button at the top of your Apple feed. Thank you for your continued support.

And keep looking up. Hey guys, Ryan here. And before we get to this week's episode, I have to warn you, it's going to be a movie review episode. I'm joined by my good friend and fellow Mysteries Decoded co-star, Andrew Sanford. And we're going to be discussing the 2013 sci-fi horror film, Dark Skies. So, if you haven't seen the film, press pause on this episode, and go watch. It's available on iTunes, Voodoo, Hulu Live TV, and Amazon. Give it a watch, and then come back for our very spoiler-heavy review.

great, probably too much painful detail. But hey, it was a lot of fun, and it is also a super fun movie, and we had a blast reviewing it. So, I hope you enjoy our review as we venture bravely, somewhere in the dark skies. This is Somewhere in the Skies with Ryan Sprague. Welcome to a very special episode. I am titling Somewhere in the Dark Skies. That's right, today we are going to be reviewing the movie dark skies with my good friend fellow podcaster crypto zoologists in all around just amazing guy and you sanford how's it going buddy hi ryan i'm great man i don't know why it was hi raya i'm excited to i'm excited to talk to another

human being who isn't my poor poor wife who's been just trapped in here with me yeah yeah for those you don't know we are in lockdown here in new york city so we are not allowed to really leave our apartments. You know, it's not as Thunder Dome-esque as people think, but we definitely, it's an interesting energy right now. I don't know about you here in Queens. It's silent. I mean, you can hear the train going by, obviously, everyone again.

But, yeah, how are things up in Manhattan? It's interesting. And I'm in the Washington Heights area. We're actually fairly close to a hospital. So we do hear sirens pretty often. but it's police cars, it's fire hires, fire trucks. It's everything. But we, it is pretty dead and also like not as dead as I would like it to be.

Like we still, like there's still people. My wife and I, we went for a walk. God, this was the last week at this point. That shows the most recent time I went for like a full walk was almost a week ago. That's like you saw the sky. Yeah, right. Well, I've been trying to go up to my roof on account. I'm lucky enough that my apartment building has like,

a roof that I can access fairly easily. So I ate ramen up there the other day just to break the monotony. Good change of scenery. Yeah, exactly. And we went for a walk and there were just people, this is probably the day before we got the shelter in place order, which for those who don't know, it's basically saying that you don't leave your apartment or your home except for things that you absolutely need to do, which is to if you want to exercise, like going for a run, it's fine.

and there are things like that, they just want you to stay away from people. And if you need to go to the grocery store, obviously. Like the next morning, I actually went to the grocery store at 7 a.m. when it opened, just so I could avoid being around other people, which I know people usually get up at like 6.30 and stuff like that. It's been, my clock is all over the place right now, so it was a challenge. But it was worth being in a fairly empty grocery store. But we go for this walk.

And there are people at the park near us. playing volleyball on this court. And so they're literally passing around something that they're all touching at the same time and then lined up on the side as if waiting to play are like 10 to 12 people, not exaggerating shoulder to shoulder, just standing there waiting to play.

So you see some of that stuff? I wish you could see me shaking my head right now. Bro, it is very frustrating. But it's one of those things where you, like it's... Unfortunately, it just is what it is. And there is a reason we have been called the epicenter of all this. Let's just put it that way. But I do not envy you because apparently Queens is getting it the hardest.

So please stay safe. It's been a red zone here, which is a little scary. But, you know, I'm doing the same thing, man. I haven't left the apartment in two days. And I will only go out to get groceries or to walk around the block a few times. Just like you said, break the monotony, get some whatever fresh air in New York City. has ever had. And it's the same here, man. You walk by areas that people usually congregate and there are still people out there. I just don't get it. And these are the people traveling and spreading it

to other places. So New York City, stop being dumb, stopping stubborn New Yorkers and just stay in place. That's all I could say to any of my New York people out there. But yeah. And I know it's hard too, but it's just something that we got to. It's, it's, it's, only going to get harder if it has to go into August and September and things like that. We're looking at like a maybe, maybe some sort of normalcy in July, unless certain people force us to open up ahead of time, but we don't need to get into that right now. But if, at best case scenario, I think we're looking at maybe close to end of July, hopefully for things to return to some sense of normalcy.

Yeah, maybe the cure I've been working on with vanilla extract and, um, cocoa butter and flour will work. It tastes great. I don't think it's going to cure anything, but I'm doing my best. Oh, good, man. At worst, you've got the trappings of some good chocolate chip cookies going. Oh, that's what it is.

Just load people full of sugar in flour. Well, before we get to the movie we're going to be talking about, Andrew, I've been seeing you posting a lot about this phenomenon that's going around Netflix right now that I have not checked out and I got to ask you man what is Tiger King

and why should I watch it? Ryan Ryan there is a gentleman by the name of Joe Exotic and I remember hearing about him for the first time on an episode of last week tonight back in 2016

when he was going on a certain political run I don't want to spoil any but this man was an attempted politician. He was also, he owns what he claims to be the largest tiger zoo in North America or possibly the world

in Oklahoma. And he is very flamboyant, proudly so, has a big old mustache, a mullet, wears fancy clothes, fancy full anyway. And he is,

this isn't much of a spoiler. He is currently in prison. And I originally heard about him about a little over a year ago. There was a podcast called Over My Dead Body, which is a great podcast who did a special on this man on Joe Exotic series, which I think they have since taken down, which is smart, because I think they're like re-releasing it to just capitalize on the fame that this documentary is brought on. But there's a documentary series currently on Netflix, seven episodes. episodes long, fascinating watch, incredibly trashy, incredibly crazy, and something that you literally, like, you can't turn away from. And it's got hills and valleys. And I will say, if people can try to relisten to the podcast, there's elements of the podcast that I liked a lot more. But to see these people and also some other people that they introduce into the story as part of all this is, it's fascinating. And it was, for those of you who have watched it, my wife and I, when we finished the series,

she is just this wonderful, hilarious, and supportive person, and she was like, we should dress you up like Joe Exotic and take some pictures. She's like, because you got a wig, I got some shirts. And I was like, oh, absolutely. And she's like, yeah, maybe we can do that tomorrow. I was like, no, we should do it like right now. Like literally we finished the last episode and went and snap some pictures,

which are currently on my Twitter at Sanford minus Sun or on my, on her. Instagram joy. Mayweather. There's like, you can find them. You can track them down. Oh, yeah. I'm looking at it right now on your Instagram. They're incredible, man. I have no words. She's a genius. She is better than my better half. And it's something that, like, she had the idea.

And I thought it would just be kind of fun. I was like, yeah, I'll throw the wig on. She's like, now we got to tie it back. So it looks like a mullet. We got to do this. We got to do that. She taped little safety pins to my ears to make and look like earrings. Like she went the whole night. She's, she's, she's a wonderful person. We've got a budding costume designer in the making.

Yeah, exactly. Okay, well, I'm definitely going to check it out. It's next on my list. There's so much time to finally consume. I know. More than we could ever possibly consume. Oh, hell yeah. Looking forward to it.

But getting back to your podcast, now you are a master of horror review podcasting. do a month of this every every October. Can you tell us a little about what Shottober is? Yeah, absolutely. So my podcast, Half White Son of a Black Man, is usually a, we take an improv spin to the news of the week. Me and my three main hosts, who are currently McHale Page, Aaron Leashmoyer, and Jamie

Lampchick, three very funny people. We sit down, we take some news items from the week. I throw some negative stories at them. They got to spin them me in the positive or I give them just a headline and they got to fill out like the story for me on the spot and or no and or and doesn't matter we we do like a top three which is like a listical type thing where we do our top three favorite things in a certain topic uh we are on a smidge of a hiatus right now because it's hard to get us all in the same room which is how I like to do the podcast uh with my wonderful engineer gauge uh engineer and producer

but every short October, every October, I completely throw the purpose of the podcast out the window, and we talk about horror movies. This year in particular, Mikhail and Jamie, and this was before Jamie joined as a full-time host, came on and were on almost every episode. They had to watch several,

some very scary, some not so great horror movies, and then sit down and talk to me about them, and they are not big horror movie watchers themselves. I think the most horror movies Mikhail has watched, has been doing the podcast. Back through the years, the podcast is over five years old at this point. That has been my favorite part of doing the show.

And if we go back, we've got episodes with you that are fantastic. And we used to do where it would be like we talked about three episodes, three movies and episode. You actually have, you and Nick Westermeyer, another good friend of ours, have the record for there was one episode

where we talked about six movies. I must have blacked that one out of my memory. Yeah, that's fair. Well, we were drinking while we did that one. I remember that pretty specific. Oh, okay, yes. Yes, it started to come back. In the office of one of the places I used to work.

We sat down and we talked about a movie and its remake. So it was like the fly and the remake of the fly, Night of the Demons and the remake of Night of the Demons and Invaders from Mars. I can't believe I remember all of those. That's amazing, man. Yeah. Some of those I wish I'd blacked out. That was easily four years ago. Oh, brother.

Y'all, if right now, Night of the Demons is currently on Amazon, I believe. It is not a good movie, but it is, can I swear on the show? Absolutely. It is batshit crazy,

that movie. So if y'all want something that it's just going to be so insane that it takes your mind off of things and you're currently social distancing, go on Amazon Prime or just try to I'm sure there's an easy way to find it. Find Night of the Demons. I believe it's 1988.

It tries to be tongue-in-cheek and it just does not work. I absolutely love horror movies. I love horror. It's my favorite genre. Good, bad. Scary, not so scary. Like it's sometimes the worse, the better for me.

Like I just was watching Child Play 3 with my morning coffee yesterday just because. So it's something that I love and I love, and I love seeing horror movies that I've never seen before. I love when something like really, really scares me. Most recently, I watched The Autopsy of Jane Doe, which I had never seen. And it's currently on Netflix.

That's one you should definitely check out, even though I, oh, what's his name? It's got Brian Cox and a dude who I try not to support too much. He was Speed Racer. We just won't say his name. It'll be easier that way. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You'll look into the dude who played Speed Racer. in the live action with Kowski's movie

and look into some shit that he did back in 2015 and you'll understand why I don't want to give him too many props. But wonderful movie, really, really scary. And it's, I love when I feel like I'm at a movie's mercy where, and more often than not horror movies are the movies that will

catch me off guard and will make me not sure what's going to happen next. And I love that feeling. It's like, it's the purple dragon that I chase to just keep finding movies where I'm not only scared, but just unsure of what to expect. Well, we're going to find out if you're at the mercy of dark skies today. So a little rundown here.

We've got the 2013 horror sci-fi movie Dark Skies, directed by Scott Stewart, who also directed... Written and directed. And written. I'm sorry. I forgot that. That's right. He also did Legion and Priest. Have you seen either of those movies?

I've seen Legion. You know what? I like Legion. Legion's a crazy movie. Yeah, from what I remember. And it got a TV show spinoff too on sci-fi for a while. I think it only lasted a season, but I love, I have a soft spot for A, horror adventure movies, like horror things that try to, it's like, oh, it's horror, but it's also got this big, like, lineage and, like, lore and stuff like that. And Legion checks off a lot of those boxes.

It's also a fun bottle movie because it all takes place in that diner. Did you see what his earlier career stuff included? I mean, some television and special effects, but no, what am I missing? Well, yeah, he was a visual effects artist, apparently, or a visual effects person. And one of his first movies he worked on was Mars Atex. Really? Yep, he worked on Superman Returns, Sin City, and at least according to his Wikipedia page, the last movie he did visual effects on, strictly as visual effects person, was the

first Iron Man movie. Wow. So he is, yeah, so this dude is a part of cinematic history. Wow. For better or worse, I'm sure he was able to just write his own ticket after that, because you see after Iron Man, within the couple of years, he gets to just start directing his own movies. Yeah, he gets to make that jump. He's the next Tekevati, for sure.

Or the first Tekevati, yeah. I mean, he's had a long career. Well, this movie was produced by Jason Blum, Blumhouse Productions, and Dimension. I forgot that. Got the Weinstein's in there, too. Ooh, okay. We won't go there. We're going to forget that part of that.

Yeah. Who do we have? Yeah, Carrie Russell, who was just on Broadway, Josh Hamilton, Dakota Stewart, and, holy shit, J.K. Simmons. So we know that's what we got to look forward to. But I got to ask before, I was wondering if you could give us the official synopsis,

Andrew, but have you ever seen... Oh, I would love to. Have you seen the movie before? I am not. I just locked it this morning, actually. Oh, awesome. Okay. So it's nice of first. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes, it is. Yep, I had not seen it before. I think I had heard of it. I remember. I think I remember when it came out, but I just, yeah, I never saw it. All right. Well, good. This will be fun then. So, yeah, if you don't mind, can you give us the official IMDB synopsis for dark stars?

Sure. As the Barrett family's peaceful suburban life is rocked by an escalating series of disturbing events, they come to learn that a terrifying. and deadly forces after them, one which may have arrived from beyond the stars. Beautifully done. I couldn't have put it in myself. I've been doing a lot of cold reading. I've been doing a lot of cold reading. You've got to keep that muscle warm. You really do.

You do. Well, I want to bring this up before we even get into sort of our review and kind of, we're going to do kind of a play-by-play of the movie if anyone hasn't seen it. If anyone hasn't, I definitely recommend Stopping this episode now. Go watch, then come back. This is going to be full of spoilers, obviously. But this is interesting.

A lot of people get confused because there was also a television series in the mid-90s with the same title, Dark Skies, and it also was about aliens. And I've actually had the creator and writer of Dark Skies, the television series, on the podcast many times. That's awesome.

He's a colleague, a friend, and for a while he protested this movie because he believed that they intentionally lifted the title after someone saw the show or was connected to the show. But either way, you know what? What's that guy's name? What's his name? If you know, Miami asking, they did the TV show. Bryce Sable. Bryce Sable.

I think Bryce might be on to something. Because my first question after finishing the movie is what does the title have to do with the movie we saw? Like, does it have a deeper lineage in UFO stories or things like that that I'm not aware of? Or is it strictly just the only other connection you could make is to a TV show in the 90s that was about at UFOs? It has absolutely nothing to do with anything UFO relates. See, yeah. Like, then I'm the, I think Bryce might be on to something. Because not only do we, whenever it's nighttime, we primarily see inside the house, there's like one moment where we see a guy looking out into a quote unquote dark sky.

but there is nothing that's right left. Yeah, I don't get it. So, you know, Bryce is pretty bitter. He's probably not happy. I'm reviewing this movie, but that's going to depend on the review, to be completely honest. Yeah, listen, Bryce, I'm just going to say I am on Bryce's side.

Me too. I've never met the man. Sounds like a real smart guy. It was a brilliant series. Definitely check it out if it can, man. It only lasted one season, but it's something. of the best historical preserved television I've seen in a while. You know, it aired in the 90s, but it took place in like the 60s and 70s, and it's just beautiful to look at.

So, yeah, check it out if it can. Okay. Okay. So we open in the movie Dark Skies with an Arthur C. Clark quote. And this is one of my favorite quotes. It's two possibilities exist. Either we are alone in the universe or we are not. Both are equally as terrifying.

I love that quote too I think I've brought that quote up on this podcast I think you have yeah It's one of my pickup lines Yeah As long as my girlfriend doesn't say that Right of course of course Yeah so as soon as I saw that I'm like

Okay I'm down with this They looked at some good inspirational Sci-fi writers of the time So let's run through our characters quick We've got Daniel who's a dad Lacey is the mom Jesse is an older brother and Sammy is a younger brother. So we've got pretty small family here.

Right. Pretty standard suburban fare. They live in like a nice, quiet little suburb as the breakdown suggests. They've got their nice dynamics. There seems to be some worry in the family where the next paycheck's going to come from, which was odd. But that's, yeah, we get a pretty standard family dynamic in this movie. Typical white suburban family at their finest. You know, the brothers get along really well.

They have this really strong bond. They talk to one another at night over walkie-talkies and from across their bedrooms, which we'll get to. This plays a big part in the movie. But then you have sort of this deterioration of the parents who are kind of falling apart, you know. Right. The dad's unemployed. The mom is carrying the family.

He just can't find work. He's insecure. So you start to see the family. isn't exactly as perfect as we would like to think. Right. Yeah. And it started very much like, I was like, huh, this is an interesting way to start this movie with just this very, like, a little bit more contained family drama, where it's just like,

oh, you know, it's a suburban family, but not everything's as good as they'd like it to appear. And the son isn't listening to them or the older son, Jesse, isn't listening to them very much. It seems like he has a hard time fitting in. but yeah, there's this dynamic between the parents where they're freaked out because the dad's unemployed. I think there's one point where the the mom is trying,

Carrie Russell is trying to work on something and the dad's like, come on, put it away. And she's like, no, we need this. Because she's a real estate agent. So it's like it's quick to establish that everything is not happy at home already. Exactly, exactly. And then on top of this,

we start to get these weird things happening in the home and it kind of starts with what they think was like someone burglarized their house while they were home you know they wake up and the refrigerator's open everything's all over the place so

and there were a lot of no and a lot of eaten uh eaten watermelons and apparently they they think it's an animal but she's like what kind of animal that comes in just to eat the lettuce and doesn't eat the meat so

my question, right off the bat, Ryan, is there some kind of UFO story to attach to this where aliens are vegetarians? Because it seems like they just eat the fruit and the romaine lettuce or whatever. You know, I mean, in all of my research, I have never come across definitive proof that they're vegetarian. But I look at it this way. I mean, if a lot of people believe that these gray aliens are actually us from the future, they are a either evolved or devolved version of us coming back to look at like, oh, how were we at this point in time? Where did we go wrong or where did we go right?

So maybe these aliens are so evolved and enlightened that they realize they no longer have to eat meat. Interesting. Okay. Maybe something like that. But no, there's no specific. lore in terms of that. There were such strong decisions

made in this movie. Quite a few of them that I feel like didn't pay off wholly and trying to fill out what these aliens were like, like that was one of them. I was like, why bring up the fact that they don't eat meat? Like, it seemed like just such an odd

specific to not have like payoff later on. You know what I mean? Right. There were a few moments in this film where that definitely happened. You're like, why? Like, why was that even in there? Right, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. To me, it seems like Stuart, the writer,

he kind of looked at the surface-level, you know, phenomenon when it comes to aliens and UFO encounters or alien abductions and just lifted some first sentences and, like, threw it all into one family's experience. That's what I'm doing. Yes. Yeah, no, I would agree with that 100%. And there's elements, this nag is because you have some of those elements that are very surface level, and then some of the family drama that comes across very surface level as well, at least in the sense that, like,

I thought it was kind of interesting where they're literally like, we can't pay for our security system, even though this is happening right now. Which don't get me wrong. Still kind of a champagne problem kind of a thing. But it was interesting to me where I was like, wow, this is, you know, they're struggling. and they can't do something that would take care of them in this moment. They have to sacrifice something else to make that happen. You know, he goes to a job interview that doesn't work out well, but they still don't seem as stressed out by that.

Yeah. It's like the movie is constantly juggling being two different things. Right. Where it's like, oh, it seems like they're stressed out by money, but really they're stressed out by aliens, but really they're stressed out by money, really they're stressed out by alien. Like, it just keeps kind of bouncing back,

and forth, I never felt like it comfortably, comfortably got its footing in either side, for me personally. It seems like two almost cliche stories being mixed together. And while I enjoy the performances, I think the actors did a really good job. It does come across, it comes across a little less than genuine to me. But that being said, once we get to sort of the paranormal aspects of this, This is like straight up poltergeist. And I don't necessarily think that's a bad thing. You know, stranger things is known for doing things like that.

And one of the first ones, besides the, you know, the breaking in at the home, you mentioned the alarm system. This one, this was interesting. So their alarm system goes off. They call the place up and the woman says it looks like it was tripped somehow, but it's all eight alarms in all eight points of entry in your home. So that gave me chills when I first heard that. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, that was pretty cool.

And it's like, it was a good example of like, oh, we don't know what is doing this or how it's doing it. And the idea that you keep having the police officer being like, you're sure it's not your kids, or you sure it's not your kids, right? And I was just like, I was like, bro, I could not have a more dismissive police officer. Oh, I know. just there to be dismissive and then leave makes his partner wait outside which i thought was funny right when clearly something's going on yeah something's going on like and it's there were a lot of elements kind of thrown in in the first act that i was like ha this could maybe pay off later and then

some that were thrown in that were specifically set up to pay off later in a way that you would have not expected or seen coven we don't have to get it. into that right at this moment. Yeah. But when you have stuff at the beginning with the son, Jesse, and his awful, terrible, stereotypical, I'm going to use the word wigger, even though I hate that term. Kid, like, gangster friend who's just, they call him rats. The dad calls him rat face. Like, it's just this, like, shitty friend that he has, that he is unquestionably.

and for some reason just straight and loyal to. Right, right. And, you know, they sort of go into it saying, you know, the son, Jesse, he's a little younger, so he's kind of like, he's, he's in that age where he's starting to mature. He's got a crush on a girl. And he's trying, you know, there's one point when him and the friend, I don't even have his friend's name written down. You said rat. We'll call him rat. Yeah, it's like something rats nerds is his last name.

Yeah. Yeah, I forget what the first name is. Oh, yeah, they call him rats. Yeah, so there's one point where they're watching a porn together. And this is like, you know, the kid, Jesse, he's trying to see how to become, you know, the next level of a teenager, I think. And this person he's chosen to sort of emulate is the last person he should ever be emulating. He's a complete sociopath. Yes.

This is funny. So the second sort of, or maybe third, I don't know, at this point, there's so many. sort of paranormal-esque moments in the film is Carrie Russell, the wife is at home, and she's looking out the window, and then a bird crashes into the window, and then another, and then another, and then another. And literally hundreds and hundreds of birds

start just basically dive bombing into their home, all dying and just, it's complete pandemonium. It's very unsettling. What did you think of that scene? I liked that too. It was again, it was something that felt familiar to me. You know what I mean? And again, it is it is kind of that successful version of like an homage type of a thing. It's like it's almost becomes clear than like, oh, this is an otherworldly situation. Even if it's not aliens, even if it's something supernatural, what have you. There's something going on that's being implied when a bunch of birds start. flying at one direction like they trying to get through it almost um and again i thought like

carrie russell's the goat man so she like she plays it off very well and reacts in a way that makes you feel scared for her and i i found that i again that moment i found as well to be very effective in what it was trying to do which was to show that like something weird is going on here what that is we don't we may or may not ever really get an answer to. But at the time, it's to kind of throw these people into hysterics. I liked the randomness of what was going on, the fact that they couldn't really nail it down to one specific incident.

Because I believe the next thing that happens is the dad takes the kids to the park or takes Sammy to the park, the youngest one. And this is some things I understand. Maybe they made certain choices. maybe the actor is trying to convey something that they couldn't get across. Because Josh Hamilton is another guy, the dad, he's a Broadway actor. He's done a lot of movies. He's done a lot of TV.

Dude knows what he's doing. But there's a moment where Sammy starts screaming. Like he looks off, opens his mouth, and starts screaming and can't stop screaming. And this is, I think, one of the next paranormal. It either happens right before the birds or it happens after the birds. He starts screaming. and the dad is just yelling at him to stop in a way that seems like he's almost met. He's like, Sammy, stop, stop.

Sammy, stop. And I was like, bro, you're not concerned right now. Your kid just pissed his pants in public and started screaming. Yes, that's right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, like it was just one of those moments. And maybe they could have, we see later on that it's hinted that the dad may or may not be abusive. Or like, at least that's what people like, it's.

almost seems like the things doing this are trying to make people believe that he's abusive for some reason or at least that's the misconception that happens so it could be planting the seeds for that but I really doubt it to me it just struck me

it just struck me as a very odd choice one thing I also love is it's hard to make movies in general making a movie is very hard and getting it to come out good is even harder but there are little things that are just speed bumps along the way.

And one of them, for me at least, was her search, search. When she goes to search what's going on to her, and it looks like a Google page, but instead of Google, it says search in big letters. And I was like, oh, boy, guys, you didn't need to show us that page. It's just one of those weird things. It's like, listen, nobody's got Google money. I get it.

But you don't have to, yeah. he ain't got to show me that she's like just, and she's clicking on the computer. Next thing you know, she's on a page that is what it is. I don't know. Yeah. Very strange.

I mean, a lot of horror movies do this where they, oh, yeah. They, they do a search for, you know, the most random shit out there.

Oh, yeah. My son is, uh, talking in a voice of a 45 year old man. And then the immediate response is, oh, he's possessed,

you know? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. And it's tough, too, because I feel like, you know, back in the day, in the 70s and 80s and 90s, maybe 60, like, it hasn't been until this, like, last decade, like, in the mid-200, like, once we get into 2007, 2008, you can't really send a character to the library anymore. Yeah.

You know what I mean? You can't send them to another location to look something up. It would, A, it would probably be costly. B, it's a little unrealistic because, like, libraries aren't as important as they used to be anymore. But C, it's really just, nobody would do that. Like, so it's, but unfortunately, the alternative is, at least to me, not as interesting. Like, especially because we live in a world where anybody can put whatever the hell they want on the internet. I'm not saying libraries are like the end-all, be-all sources.

of information, but when you have a character that's just clickety, clack, clack, clack, on a keyboard, it's hard for it to come across as scary to me. Well, let's get to sort of beyond these little teasing things that whatever lay behind this is doing, there's another interesting one where all the photos in the frames in the house just disappeared. That was really interesting. I'd never really seen anything like that done before. Yes, and I also feel like possibly it is playing into the big twist at the end of the movie.

Okay. Whether or not that twist is clear, we'll get into later, but that was something there's always fun to be had when you have a twist at the movie in a movie towards the end and then you look back or think about the movie afterwards and go like, oh man, this happened, it kind of relates to that, this happened, this happened, Sometimes that can be done really strongly. I do not feel it was done as strongly in this.

And I do believe that that was to set up the twist at the end. I could be wrong. It could have just been like, oh, here's another random weird thing that happened. Right. But I do think part of it was that to set up the twist. Again, if anything, the twist made it less effective. Because in the moment, I was like, oh, weird, they just took all their pictures. Like, that's creepy.

Like it's a weird thing, and it's a weird way to mess with people. That was another effective moment. I also thought that we see Carrie Russell, well, A, one of the times she's trying to sell the house, she talks to this mother and the mother says that her kid gets sick a lot. The kid almost has an asthma attack in one of the weirdest ADR moments that I've seen in the movie. That girl was not making that noise. They were clearly like, we'll just throw it in post. Put it in post.

Put it in post. But she tells the mother like, oh, you know, we find out that Jesse was sick a lot when he was little constantly. Like he was allergic to the world, she says. And the mother is like, oh, how'd you get through it? Carrie Russell basically convinces this woman not to buy the house because it won't be good for her. So it's a nice little, like, moment to show us that, like, Carrie Russell gives a shit about people. Later on, she's showing the same house to somebody. And we start to get into some of the even creepier moments.

And I like this a lot because she just all of a sudden starts twitching and losing it, and then she walks towards this glass door in the back of the house and starts banging her head against it until it breaks. Hey, y'all, Ryan Spreck here. As you all know, the Somewhere in the Sky's podcast is always free to consume, but it isn't free to create. That's why I've started the Somewhere in the Sky's Patreon campaign. On a monthly basis, you give what you think the show is worth. You'll be helping the show continue, grow, and to be something truly communal. And remember, there are rewards for each level of contribution, and the list is only growing.

So please help Somewhere in the Skies now by becoming a patron. To contribute and to learn more, visit www.patriot.com backslash somewhere skies. Thank you for your support. And now on with the show. Yeah, it was very unsettling to watch. I thought that moment when she just... just like, it was like a flip got switched in her head, and she just like, was immediately just frozen and had like, almost like a stroke in that moment.

And it was, it was very, there are, there's imagery in this movie and visuals that just go beyond giving me the creeps, and they made me so uncomfortable. So, you know, kudos for that, no matter what people end up thinking of the movie, there were some really effective moments, I think, and that was definitely one of them. Yeah, and I appreciated that she does that and then wakes up in her bed thinking it's a dream. And then the call from her boss that's just like, why did you start having a nervous breakdown in that building, in the house that you're showing this morning? Right.

And she sees that it's like three in the afternoon. So it actually happened. But she woke up like it was a dream. Like it was just a fun, like it was a great way to show how much they're losing control and what's happening. In my opinion, that was one of the most effective moments. of the movie. Yep. And it sort of spirals from there. Each member of the family starts to sort of have these moments where they seem controlled by something in unknown force. You know, the dad, Carrie Russell, goes outside and finds him frozen in place outside. And when she,

you know, it's one of these typical horror moments where you can't see the person, they have their back to you. And then when she goes around, his mouth is just wide, agape. And he's frozen. And then his nose just starts pouring blood out. And then he just runs back inside, like really quickly as if controlled by something. Again, these moments were some of the best in the movie, I think, where the director was like, I know what I'm doing here. I definitely know how to do horror. Now, how is it going to connect to aliens? That's a question we'll get to. But yeah, that was one. And then each of the suns had those moments too. You know, the youngest son peas his pants, starts screaming.

Jesse is just got his first kiss, you know, and then he has... Yeah, after he awkwardly, and again, this might be to, like, lead into towards the twist, but because of the porn he was watching, he just reaches out and touches this girl, calls this girl a bad girl and touches her boob, and then she's like furious, understandably so. And then it's like, God, have you ever even kissed a girl, like, just mad? And he's like, well, and makes it clear that he hasn't. And she's like, oh, well, in that case, it's just like, well, no, no, no, no, no. That's not how this works.

Show a little bit more self-worth. This kid's creep. But he gets, like, chased when he's right. And that's what I love, like, I was, I wasn't like a sheltered kid, but I was definitely, like, somebody that I didn't smoke pot or anything like that until I left to go to, quote-unquote college. but I like to see a kid that's like 13 years old that this kid's friend pull out like a bong and a huge bag of weed and just be like yeah let's rock man what is this oh we have to go back and you know since we're talking about the friend um during this scene where the birds all crash into the house you know like the um the the the people show up who deal with like uh outbreaks or Yeah, I think it's the EPA, right? There we go, the EPA.

And that's a good question. We'll have to look that out. We'll fix it in post. Yeah, yeah, yeah, listen, if I learned, I hope not, because if I learned anything from Ghostbusters, it's the EPA or the bad guys. Yeah. Okay, so we need to.

Always the bad guys. Always the bad. After the bird thing happens, we find out it was three different migrations of birds that crashed into the home. And they think maybe this could be, some sort of weird airborne virus, not to get too current. Right.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. The friend has a line right here, and I got to read it, that is so timely. He says, bitch, you're going to get quarantined. And that would be the, I think, the first of five times, he says, bitch, throughout this movie. That was kind of his thing he had going for him. Yeah, no, they really like, in a movie full of characters that felt like they were like somewhat fully defined, like, and really, like, at least moderately fleshed out.

The parents felt very fleshed out to me. Jesse was what he was, but again, that might have been intentional. Sammy was your classic little kid. That kid, I was just like, man, I always say, to my friend, to Mikhail, my friend and co-host on my show, Hollywood has no shortage of shitty 10 to 13-year-old kids that had red hair and freckles. And this kid is no different.

I don't know what it is. It's like they got a factory that just spits them out. But it'll look over the last like 30 years and you will just find kids that are from even I would say eight to 13 redhead and freckles and they are always the worst. It just always make these kids shitty. And this one wasn't even in like a fun way. I think you said it's the best. He's a sociopath.

Yeah, he's horrible. He's absolutely horrible. Like, if the aliens, if this movie is about aliens, which we'll get to, uh, wanted to take someone, that's the person you take to find out what not to become. Yeah. Um, because then we see him shooting poor Jesse with an aerosol, got rifle. What the hell? Yeah. And then Jesse starts floating in the, uh, because I, because whatever.

And it's at this point that the movie really started to go off the rails for me. Because this happens. Moments later, Jesse defends. He's like, what? He's my best friend. Because then the dad goes over and tries to beat up the kids, like the kid. And I was like, okay, that seems like a jump. And then rightfully so gets punched in the face by the dad.

And that's all that comes of it. And then, if I remember correctly, order-wise, moments later, the dad has a successful job interview and gets a new job. So all of a sudden, all the family problems are thrown out the window. Yeah. Yeah. Like just gone. Yeah.

That's a good point. I actually have that written down. There's a moment where he gets a job and he's so happy. He goes home. And then we get like the most tame sex scene ever in cinema history. But, but it's like. Oh, you know what? I might not have gotten that because I watched the version I watched was on Hulu Live.

And it's the sci-fi, the version that they show on. TV. I saw no sex scene, at least from my recollection. When I'm saying, too, I'm talking like, they kiss and then you hear a little like, what, mo'-w, sort of. Oh, gotcha. Okay. I saw that. Okay. Yeah, fair enough.

No, you didn't miss anything. But you're right. They sort of, all this, like, crazy, scary, weird shit has happened, and then it's all just forgotten for one night. Yeah. Yeah, things are okay in our regular lives. But now we've got to

deal with this other shit. Which, it's seemed like an odd choice. Like if you're trying to reach a sense of calamity that they're shooting for at the end of the movie, I feel like you don't dismiss the real problems

so easily and so readily. They're just like, all right, we got all that human stuff out of the way, and now let's get into the alien invasion. And it's just like, oh, but why? So what was that stuff for? What do we go through all that for? Exactly. Yeah. Well, we'll get to that. but I do want to mention to

Daniel the dad he is, you know, he's really trying to not believe that any of this stuff is paranormal or weird or unexplained. And he even ends up getting security cameras installed. I don't know how that happens

if, you know, they have no money. But he gets who's installed to look in every room. And this is where one of the first kind of big, I guess, alien abduction tropes comes in. He's looking at these videos. and they all go static for a moment

and there's a half an hour missing on the videos. Now, this is a very common occurrence in alien abduction that we call missing time. So, yeah, what did you think of that moment? That was another one where I was just like, at that point, it was almost a little too late for me. Like, I felt like that should have happened a little bit earlier on.

At that point, I was like, all right, clearly something weird is going on here. I forgot that they even have. had the security cameras. Speaking of weird, that was a lot of cameras. It was like eight camera screens. Oh,

yeah. That's a lot of cameras to set up in your house when you can't afford the security system to begin with. I know. It's like a straight up wall mode or something. Yeah, exactly. Sitting there like Ozzymandias. But he's,

that one, like, while it was like fun, and I hate to compare things to other movies, but that was a moment where I was like, I've seen this done better. It felt less like an homage. I say what you will about the movie.

There is a moment in the M. Night Shyamalan movie's Signs, where you have the alien reveal or the alien caught on footage reveal, and it walks across the screen and kind of looks almost like Bigfoot, like walks across the screen at this like birthday party and just looks dead at the camera. And it's like this very unsettling like, whoa, this like pop moment. and in this, at that point, like, because it's so blurry and he's literally just seeing this blur, like, it's like him realize, that moment feels like it's for the audience when we already know that there's been somebody else in the house. Like, I feel like we had already even seen one of them at that point, like, because the kid sees one or something.

Or Carrie Russell thinks she sees one in the kid's room or something like that. Like, yeah, exactly. So we already know we had that moment, and yet it lingers on. on there, like, that's information that we need, but we know that already. It's fun, and again, he's playing it up as best as he can,

but it's, as far as moving that plot line forward, I was like, we already, like, we know this. Yeah. We got it. I get that. From a structural standpoint, I think, yeah, it was a little too late. Someone like me, who's knee-deep in abduction lore,

like, it was our moment of like, oh, good, they got something right. Like, missing time. is a huge part of all things. Yeah, absolutely. And I think that there are ways that they could have shown, like the missing time element, almost, at least for me, gets lost in the like, oh yeah, half hour went past,

but what you probably want to know is, like, look, there's something standing in his house. Yeah, at like eight different points. Right. And I was just like, well, no, the missing time is the interesting part, like, at this point. That's a good point, yeah. Because I do agree that that's interesting.

And it's cool to, like, I was wondering how many, if you had to say like in a percentage between zero and 100%, what percentage of the alien stuff that happens in this movie is based on things

that have happened in real life? Almost all of it. Really? 100%. The problem, though, is that it's all happening to one family. Gotcha.

I'm talking like decades and decades of small, subtle things happening to quote-unquote experiencers, and it's always like one of these elements, or maybe two. Again, this is where I think the writer just looked at all the bullet points of alien abduction and said, I'm putting them all in one movie on like, you know, maximum drive. Yes, I mean, it's crazy.

We have the markings behind Daniel the dad's ear that he finds, and then these weird geometric-shaped wounds on one of the kids. Now, yeah, these are actual, these come from actual accounts of people, and I've seen them. I've seen implant incisions, and I've seen markings on people's bodies that are perfect triangles or, you know, octagons or almost like crop circles dug into a freaking person's skin. It's very unsettling. Whether or not it came from an alien or an alien abduction was involved, it's fascinating that the human body could create something like that. or if a human being self-inflicted themselves in that way, too. Right. Yeah, and I guess that leads to the point, too,

which is because they spread themselves so thin with all these different, like, ooh, this kid's got bruises, this guy's got a thing behind his ear, there's birds, there's all that, well, when you get to the climax, there's nothing for them to really hang their hat on, like, because they go so many different directions that it's hard for that to, like, focus at the end. I think now it would be as good a time as editor to talk about when they try to go and get some advice.

Yep. About all this. And we get our sweet J.K. Simmons scene. Who I just have to assume is good friends with Jason Bloom to some extent because they did, Bloomhouse did do Whiplash. Okay. Okay. That makes sense. Which was, yeah, which was his big, like one of the biggest movies.

he's like, I can't remember if he won an Oscar for that. He at the very least got nominated. Wow. That was one of J.K. Simmons's career roles. So I'm sure Jason Bloom was like, listen, man, you come in, we give you this much money, you just score. Sit there. And then you go home.

Yeah. So, I mean, okay, so he is, I guess, basically, the family is sort of accepted at this point that there is definitely something going on. And because of Carrie Russell's Google searches, or search searches, as it were, she comes to the conclusion that it's alien abduction. And the husband finally is like, all right, I'll entertain this. I can't deny what I've seen and experienced. So they go to enlist the help of Mr. Pollard, J.K. Simmons himself, Mr. J. Jonah Jameson and the Spider-Man movies. Yeah.

remembers that. And this is like where we start to get the really big history of the grays, as we call them, the alien. Well, he gives three different explanations. Yes, he does. Which I thought that was again speaks to the movie and how scattered it is. Because he's like, oh, they're grays, insectoids, or reptilians. There's three basic. Now, my first question would be, are those the three basic things that go on or did he just pick like, okay, we got grays?

I need two other examples because we got rule of threes. We'll go with exceptoids and reptilian. It was interesting the three he chose. I mean, I've heard accounts of every kind of race of alien you can possibly think of. So why they chose three that almost all looks similar to one another was interesting and interesting choice. Maybe they were the most effective. So, you know, I don't know. I really feel like the reptilian one was thrown in because Jason Bloom,

is very left-leaning, very liberal, and will often take shots at right-wing people in his movies, at least far-right-wing people. We have that dad at the random dad at the beginning who's talking about, he's like, you want to hear two scary things. China and Iraq or something.

Or China and Iran or something like that. He's like, oh, yeah. So they make him look like a crazy person. And then with the reptilians, they say like he's like, reptilians are the ones I at least believe because it seemed like he was saying that because correct me if I'm wrong a lot of the reptilian things has a very like anti-semitic base correct absolutely yeah so that feel like him felt like him taking a shot at another fringe belief

just because yeah yeah and then we get into the my next question would be have you ever used anything akin to this UFO test that JK sent him test. Oh my God. So this, these, these do exist. I mean, there was a famed. They do, really. There's a famed UFO abduction researcher named Bud Hopkins. He passed away, um, not too long ago, but I mean, hundreds and hundreds of people would

come to this guy. He lived in Manhattan and, uh, they sought him out. He, he would hear out their stories and, you know, record it. And he started to compile, like, a list of, like, questions to ask if you think you're about abducted by aliens. So, I mean, yeah, it makes sense. If you're going to compile stories, it's the same with UFO reports. If you go to the mutual UFO network and report a UFO, there's, like, strict guidelines.

Like, what time a day was it? You know, how big was the object in terms of, in relation to the distance you were? How many lights? And then you literally just tick off the boxes. And then... Interesting. And then the investigators decide if it's worth going out to pursue or not. So when he did that, it seemed a little dumb at first.

But then the more I thought about it, I'm like, no, that's what you would do to try to we, as he says, weed out the crazies. I think he's, yeah. Oh, yeah. And I will say, I thought, I was like, my first thought was, you know what? I bet this is real. It is the thing that's done. It seems so on the nose, like, so on the nose that I was just like, you know what? I bet you there was somebody who did this.

So, yay, good, I was right. Yeah, you were right. Another thing I wanted to add, which I thought really warmed my heart, was the state of Mr. Pollard's apartment. It is, like, littered from wall to wall with UFO photos and the strings connecting the, like, every conspiracy tinfoil hat person's dream. And seeing it somewhere else besides my own apartment really put it into perspective for me, to be completely honest.

So recently, I've let my girlfriend start to redecorate our place so that people will actually come over. So, yeah, that was cool to see. I'm like, okay. So this is what happens when you get too obsessed with this stuff. Good to know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and I will say before we move on from him, I do want to say, I have lived in quite a few apartment buildings in New York City since I've lived here.

some big some not so big some big some like seven floors high some like three floors high i have never been in an apartment building that was as noisy as his building when they are standing outside of his door to go into his apartment when they meet him there he'd come back to the grocery store and there's just this ambient chatter going on and throughout the building and it was such an odd choice to me it was almost like he lives in a hospital or a school and maybe I miss something and he does. But it was like, it felt like he lived in a building that was just

buzzing with people out of their apartments talking to each other and walking the halls. Who does that? I couldn't even tell you what my neighbors look like. I mean, I never see that. Nobody ever interacts, you know, it's, that's a

good point. I didn't think about that. So strange. That is really strange. Okay, so Daniel and what's her name? Lacey, they sit down with him. He starts going through the list of like, I'm going to see if you guys are actually abducted. And the more he takes things off, the more he realizes,

and they realize, yeah, like, this is what he thinks is going on. And he decides it's the greys, which is the most common alien in abduction lore. Everyone knows, you know, gray body, big black guys, skinny body. as well. Yeah, very, very iconic. And it was interesting to hear him describe, like, what they do and their place in all of this. I thought that was creative. They're almost like these, the worker bees, I guess, of the alien races. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I, and I like the whole, like, they're like, well, why did he choose us? They choose us. He's like, they're like, they're fucking fine now, man. Yeah, that's a good point. He's like, really, there's no rhyme or reason to it.

Right, because, you know, a lot of these people who are abducted, they say, like, oh, I was chosen for a reason or I was special. There was something unique about me they wanted to experiment with. And this Mr. Pollard tells them straight up, there is nothing special about you people. Like, they take who they want and when they want. But, again, almost all of that is done away with the twist at the end. Yeah, we're getting so close. And I know the people listening are like, just get to the fucking twist. We will get there. We will get there as fast as the movie decided to get there.

What was the other thing? Oh, he found, this is where we kind of seat back into the relationships between the family. He tells them, you can't stop this from happening, but your best defense is to stay unified. They use fear, and that's how they take one of you. They clearly want one of the people from your family, and they're going to fuck with you until they get the person they want. don't be scared, don't give into that, and stay unified. So now we have the family having to sort of, they've gone through all this crazy, traumatic, weird stuff. Now they've got to be a family again. So this is kind of, as we're inching towards, I guess, the climax of the film, it's now the 4th of July. At this point, Daniel, he has boarded up the house. He buys a guard. Which I really don't get it.

I like, I, from him being able. to see clearly that these things just appeared in his house instantaneously. Like, I don't understand why he put the boards on the windows, but then I don't think the movie understands as well. You know what I mean? Yeah, that's a really good point. And he gets a shotgun, and I'm like, I was like, okay, I kind of get this. And then they go and get a dog, like an attack dog. And I'm like, okay. It's very primal, I feel like we resorted back to like, yeah.

You remember that time I told you about the Hopkinsville Goblins case? Sure. You know, the floating alien goblins and the family was shooting at them and they terrorized his family. Like, there was a lot of callbacks to that in this movie, especially in the last scene where I think the movie Science also got a lot of its inspiration as well. This remote area where a family is being hunted or terrorized by these aliens. Now, in this movie, it's not a remote area. They live literally within feet of other people. And that's my next question for you, Andrew.

So it's the 4th of July. There's clearly people outside doing fireworks and everything. And then you have this family hold up in their house waiting for a pending, like, alien invasion of sorts. So, I mean, the juxtaposition there is interesting, but I don't think it was well thought out either. No, I feel like it was just a lot of the stuff in the last, like, 20, 15 minutes. It felt like it was like, all right, we are just going to barrel through to make this ending as explosive as possible. Here's all these set pieces. Here's a shotgun.

Here's a loud dog. Here's boards that can be stripped off the walls and have the screws come out and stuff like that. Here is, it's 4th of July, so we're going to have fireworks going off. Like, it felt like they were like, we need to make this finale bombastic. There's not a lot of substance, but at the same time, I will admit, I did fall victim to it. Like my heart was pounding in these last few minutes because you're right. They throw everything at you. It's clear the family cannot stop this force coming into their house.

Why they didn't just go outside where there's other people, I don't know. Again, this idea of isolating themselves seems like the worst thing they could have done in this situation. But again, then we wouldn't get to the climax that we have if they had done that. And again, we're sort of at the writer's. disposal at this point, I would say. Yes, and because we've gotten no clear idea of what these aliens are doing, though, it seems odd that the family's like, well, we need to do this, this, and this, and that's exactly what'll help.

Like, oh, hide it. She tosses the little kids in their room at one point, which apparently doesn't matter because moments later when they're given back to her, she's like ecstatic. And it's like, I thought you wanted them to hide in her room. there's one moment that really I thought was fun and well done, which is that she's walking down the hallway when like shit's hitting the fan, the aliens are shut, there's lights outside, I guess.

Again, things that no one else is seeing for some reason in a very populated suburban area. And it's Fourth of July, so it's not like people are probably like awake or asleep yet because this happens over like dinner time. She throws the kids in a room while the dad, downstairs with the dog and the shotgun and she's walking down the hall and we see one of these grays behind her so one's already in the house and it just follows her reaches towards her almost touches her and then pulls back for no reason that was weird yeah it's not even like

she sees it or like it becomes a weird to its presence it's like oh no right well why like what what what what what what what we doing here what do you why if it was so easy for them to do what they eventually end up doing, why didn't they just do it? Like, it's this weird idea. Because we never get a clear definition or a clear answer, even a simple answer,

as to what these aliens are doing, their motives and their actions make no sense. Yeah, I would have to agree with it. It's messy. I mean, he says, they're like, oh, he says that they use fear to pick on them, but, you know, the things

that they do like the all they do is like slam a door closed and lock her in a room which is like they're freaking her out but she's not the one that they eventually take they're breaking into the house downstairs but then we find out that the dad is eventually fine yeah like he runs upstairs like nothing happened well let's get to who they want to take now this is where it just kind of goes completely in overdrive and um bananas man the alien start to close in on the family, we see like a shit ton of them. Like, I guess a gaggle of grays,

we'll call them in the home. Love it. Love that. You like that. I'm going to copyright that. Gaggle a graze, man. Gaggle of grays, man. That's the next somewhere in the shot, it's guys t-shirt. Gaggle a graze. I'm doing it. Done. So,

okay, let's go back to these aliens use fear. So, we think they're possibly going to take Sammy, the youngest kid. That seems to be where the movie was heading this whole time. Youngest kid is the most vulnerable and let's do it. And as the family is fending off the aliens, Jesse gets transported to some weird nightmare, I guess,

where his mom is dead. His dad kills himself. It's very, um, and it's, yes, yeah, and it's insinuated that the dad killed the mom. And it was honestly for a moment, because when he, when the, the,

the plyboards came down and he fired the shotgun, I was like, ooh, I hope he shot somebody that's not an alien. Yeah, that would have been a really interesting. If they're just doing it like the, Twilight Zone set the scene for a lot of stories to come from American pop culture and cinema and writings and literature and what have you. The Monsters are due on Maple Street is one of my favorites, which is a Twilight Zone episode

where it's a similar thing where these people like something shoots across the sky and all the power in the street goes out and all the people that live on the streets start blaming each other and eventually somebody gets killed by accident that they sent off

to like investigate the next block and then it turns out that it was literally just these aliens going like oh like you know we shut off their power and look what they did do each other let's move on to the next block Like it's a similar idea of like these aliens using fear to just observe the human race. And this feels like, felt like it was going in that direction, but then everything has kind of a simple answer.

Like I guess he shot at nothing and he just went upstairs and the kids were in their room, but then they're out of their room because they're just okay. And then this kid sees what we thought might be like the things going awry, to put it mildly. And then it just ends up being, yeah, like a nightmare, I guess. It's some weird nightmare. So, yeah, he, mom's dead. Dad kills himself. Sammy's running around the home clearly, like, possessed. And then he sees the girl he kissed with his friend.

They're watching the porn that they watched in the beginning of the movie. It was so weird. And it, you know, like, okay, we have all these images of what could be or what has happened mixed together. and Jesse is just having this really strange, strange nightmare, or is it real? We don't know. And then the moment he sort of snaps out of it, we see him separated from the family.

They're all staring at him. And this is the moment where you're like, oh, my God, this was like, was it or was it not? Maybe their plan all along. They finally got the fear induced into this kid so much that he's lost in another world. And they use that to take him. Yeah. And then, oh, yeah, we see that, like, the next thing that happens is we see J.K. Simmons' character reading a paper just so they can throw him in there one more time.

And it says, he cuts out an article that says, like, oh, parents blamed for a child's disappearance. And then he puts it up on his wall of stuff. But then it goes three months later, and it seems like there were no repercussions from that at all. Right. We get, like, one off line of the dad being like, uh, the child protective services are, stopping by today or something. It's like, oh, okay. Right, yeah. So there was no investigation into, like, what? And guess what, bro? If they're coming by, they're going to take your kid because you've got a bunch of crazy shit pinned up on your walls. Like, they, I feel like they were going for fun, like,

oh, now the parents are going to be our like J.K. Simmons character. And because they were affected by this, they want to start looking at all the details and looking at all these different stories. And they've got their own map and pinups and stuff like that. But it doesn't really add to anything. Because we don't really see. They seem fine. Like, I know it's three months later, but they still seem like they've recovered pretty well. And they have an incredibly recent picture of Jesse hung up on their house.

That looks like it was taken on a cell phone, but it's a huge picture. And then we go from that to her going. Now, like a running thing that we see earlier on is that Sammy is doing drawings of himself holding the hands of a tall, thin man, a grave, presumably. So here we have Carrie Russell going through Jesse's old box of stuff, and she finds pictures of him when he was younger. And then she finds similar drawings that he had done. when he was a little kid. And then she starts going back and having these flashbacks to the conversation that she had with the mom about Jesse being sick when he was little and baby being allergic to this world. And, oh, there was something else that's brought up where they, and I could be wrong about this.

And I will say that this was a twist that I found hard to interpret that either he had been targeted his whole life. or Jesse is not human. Yeah. So this is where I, too, I'm like, what the fuck? I don't get... Are we supposed to know the answer or not? Because it was not here in any way, shape, or form. And all.

And then when I started to look back, I was like, I think it's airing on the side of him not being human because most of the stuff about his character is him adjusting to being a teenager, but you could just have that be interpreted him and interpreted as him adjusting to being a human being. Yeah. And the, oh, he was allergic to the world line.

I was like, oh, so is he not from this world? Right. Like, that seems like a specific line to bring back. It's a little too on the mark. Yeah. Yeah. And then we get this last little tag with the Sammy's walkie-talkie going off. And I guess it's apparently Jesse.

Communicating back to it. Yeah. So then I'm just like, Okay, and then it just ends. Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, we are left with the question, was Jesse an alien? Were they coming back to get him?

Or was he some sort of, there's a lot of research done in the abduction realm where people believe they're taken and either from men, sperm is taken or women, their eggs. They're creating these alien human hybrid programs where they want to see how we mix. with one another or was he you know an alien put into a human body to learn how to become a human

like who it's it's too much and it's too big for this movie to be honest yes yes so oh big time why they decided to do this twist at the end I don't know I'm going with he was the target all along and we're just not supposed to

know that and maybe he had like premonitions this was going to happen or it's not the time he's ever been taken. This just is the like the final time maybe. I don't know. Right. Yeah. And I do like, not to

get too much into like my own conspiracy theories, but if you look back, the Weinstein's are notorious for going in and changing movies as they are being made sometimes for the better. They made a lot of like the Dimension Films and the Weinstein company made a lot of

great movies. And, but Most of the time, it's for the worst. Worse. And that especially happens in horror movies. They think they know what they're doing with horror movies. And they always like to add stupid, schlocky things to try to do, like, a mass appeal. I know this was several years later, but it felt very, like, paranormal activity twist to me. Like, I feel like they were just like, oh, no, we need to make the twist that he was an alien the whole time or something like that.

I really have a hard time believing that that was part of the movie to begin with. Like so much so that if you were to tell me that they finished filming the movie, the last scene was going to be J.K. Simmons, adding them to his wall. I literally thought the movie was about to end. I was like, okay, that's like at least an ambiguous ending. You don't really know what happened, and you know probably the parents got in trouble for what happened or got blamed. But instead, they, like, doubled down and try to give an extra explanation in a scene that, seems very thrown together as if to just give like a, ooh, like a big twist scare at the end.

And it's just, it is just not effective. It's not. It just, it didn't work. I just, I thought overall, like, I appreciated trying to make a alien abduction horror movie. Yeah. Oh, there's a lot of, there's a lot to work with there. And I think they had some of those elements in there. Like, it's, A, you're, you're a.

on a fear that some people actually have. It's just like making a horror movie out of a possession story. Like there's there are things people, everybody for the earth, a lot of people have a friend who knows a friend who was abducted or has a friend who knows a friend who knows somebody who was possessed. Like there's a lot, that's a deep well to draw from. And I think that they probably had the best intentions. But because I feel like I,

would be very surprised to hear that this director and writer is a UFO person. If you were to tell me, like, oh, this guy actually knows a lot about UFOs and UFO phenomena, I would be surprised because, like you said, it's really more of a smorgish board of things. Like, he went in, took, like, one sentence and then it was just like, well, I'm going to throw this in, because that's kind of cool. Like, it doesn't seem to have very much an understanding. or a really firm grasp on the stories it's trying to draw from. You know what I mean?

Oh, totally. Yeah, again, I just feel like Stewart, he skimmed the very, the first search result he found on alien abduction and just went with it. Yeah. You know, and he did. He took every trope, whether abduction or paranormal, he mashed him together. He threw everything into the movie. And it was contrived. But overall, man, I mean,

I thought it was well written in terms of, like, the dialogue. Sure. It had a good build, mostly up to the climax. Looks great. It looked good. It was very slick, and it had a style. The acting was good. I thought all the people did a really good job.

Pretty tremendous. It's a, you got like the main, I always loved when you, like, A, the main actors were fantastic, and you even get somebody like, jay k simmons come in and giving a very reserved and grounded performance i feel like any other movie and usually any other actor would take that opportunity to be like all right here's the crazy that believes in everything and instead you get this guy who's like almost like weary and burdened by the information that he has um which i really liked like he's just like yeah sorry this is this is this is probably what it is i've seen this before look i got this behind my like he's got this

horrendous scar behind his ear. Like there's, instead of being like, ooh, like he's just very, very grounded. And I think that is a testament to the director and the style that he was going for. And the act, like the kind of acting choices

that he was trying to stick with from his from his actors. And I, yeah, I agree. Like, there was a lot of those decisions were very strong. It's just the story itself was just kind of a little all over the place to end. Well, let's look at the Rotten Tomato

Score for this movie. We've got a 41% by critics and a 49% by audience. So, oh, wow. Say what you may about the movie. Well, personally, Andrew, out of a rating system of grays, what do you give this movie out of

one to five grays? One to five grays? I would give it probably two grays. I really, I would I would want to give it more, but there's so much about a movie The the hardest part

of any storytelling is sticking the landing and hitting the ending and you want all these elements to try to pull together to make a cohesive story that becomes as satisfying at the end as it may have been at the beginning.

And don't get me wrong. That is not easy. It's not an easy. thing to do. But when you have a movie where you sit there and you get invested and I really was like I was on board until we got into the third act. And then I started to be like, wait, what movie is this? Like what, what's happening here? And because the elements leading up to it were so scattered, it not only had a hard time bringing things together, the ending made some of the elements that we had experienced before worse, in my opinion. Yeah. And not as satisfying. The ending, the ending of this movie, I think, did it a great disservice. Joy, my wife, came out into the living room at one point when I was watching it. We were towards the end.

And I remember her being out there. And at one point, she heard me, I forget what the moment was, but I audibly started laughing. Oh, no. Yeah, exactly. Like, and it's, and that's, listen, again, I don't want to, like, disparage anybody. on this particular movie. I usually have no problem taking shots every now and then. I really think that there are a lot of elements in this movie

that just got out of people's hands, maybe. And who knows? I wasn't there. And I've never made a movie of like a big budget. Like, you know, this movie costs like $15 million to make or something like that. It's not an easy feat to accomplish. But there's, when you have this story, it felt like the whole story they could have taken like another pass at the script before they started.

shooting. You know what I mean? Like just something to really bring everything. It's like just to take some element, maybe even if the birds came back, maybe if we even just got like some more explanation as to what was going on. But it felt like they left things purposely vague so they could just go bug nuts at the end. I knew we could use the word bug nuts at some point in this. I always try.

I always try. Well, that's, you know, you had. What about you? What about you one to five grades? Yeah, me. I'm going with, I'm going to go with a three grays out of five on this one. It was enjoyable, suspenseful, a couple good jump scares. But it was, like you said, it was pretty cliche, and it relied heavily on all the films that came before it, I think.

Yes. But overall, I definitely, I'd recommend this to people just looking for a fun, scary alien film to pass the time. Oh, man. You know. Something to watch on like a Saturday afternoon. That's like my, it even, it warmed my heart that I, like, I have Hulu Live TV. No big deal. And I was able to watch this because it's available on demand through Hulu Live TV through sci-fi.

And while while the sci-fi channel has become something markedly different than what it was when I was growing up, it was fun to, like, when I was in grade school and stuff like that, Saturday afternoons, when I would have nothing to do, yeah, put on sci-fi, and they usually had on some cheesy, sometimes not so great, sometimes, like, cult-favorite horror movies and stuff like that.

So there was something a little bit, like, heartwarming about that to be able to sit down and watch a movie that I ended up thinking was so-so, but like a fun kind of cheesy horror movie, and it said sci-fi, right, in the bottom of the corner. and I was like, oh, you know what, this is nice. This is like, you know, a nice little nostalgia punch.

Absolutely, man. I mean, it brings me back to the days of like mystery science theater 3,000 and watching that on Saturday and Sunday mornings. Like, I could definitely see this movie eventually making it to like riff tracks or something. Oh, yeah. Oh, I didn't think it was that then. Not that, but no, no, no, it wasn't. But I could see them finding a lot of fodder in there to deal with. But I think when it comes down to it, when it comes to this movie called Dark Skies, I would suggest people go watch Dark Skies the television series.

Or I had another guy on the show who made this homemade. It was literally the first found footage film ever made, long before Blair Witch and everything else that came before it. It was called Incident. Sorry, it was called McPherson tape. and it was a home video of a family during Thanksgiving and their home gets invaded by aliens and they get abducted. A lot of elements...

Where can I find that? Go on YouTube, McPherson tape, type it in, and then UPN actually remade it into their own version directed by the same guy. Dean Aliotto, he's a good friend of mine

and UFO researcher and a filmmaker. And he made... This is a funny story. I'll go through it quick, but He made this movie on like little to no money. He brought it to the distributor.

And the distributor's place burnt down to the ground and they lost like the entire film. Somehow somebody got hold of it before this happened. And it started making the rounds in the UFO community. Someone put it out there and said, this is an authentic home video of a family getting abducted by aliens. That's how convincing it was, dude. For like 20 years, this movie was going around, you know, the conspiracy realms. Without this dude's knowledge? Yeah, he had no idea.

He had absolutely no idea. Wow. And then somebody contacted him eventually and was like, hey, man, that movie you made, like, it's huge. It's actually like a big thing in these niche communities of like conspiracy nuts and UFO people. And he was like, oh my God, are you kidding me? He's like, well, I need them to know it's not real. So then he started going around and telling people. And then UPN remade it, literally a shot-for-shot remake of it with Dean Elliott directing it with like actual actors and stuff.

Not to say the actors and the original weren't real actors. No, I feel. You know what I mean. Yeah, I know what you mean. I got you. And I remember seeing the UPN version on television when I was a kid and it scared the living daylights out of me. And then I went and watched the original. which is even scarier because it looks even more raw and real.

So definitely I suggest people go check that out if you want like a good scary abduction. Have there been people in the UFO community that have tried to say that he is just trying to cover up what is a real home video? Oh, absolutely. Amazing. Amazing. Amazing, amazing, amazing. It doesn't matter what he says or how, you know, I mean, I can literally like look at the actor and point to them and put you, put you, put you, send you. you a link to his IMDB page.

And he is still making movies today. So he did not get abducted by aliens. He's not missing. Amazing. It's amazing. But, you know, that's the lengths people will go to believe these things. Sure. Yeah.

I definitely suggest checking that out, too. But before we go, Andrew, I got to ask you, what do you got coming next? I know the podcast is on a little hiatus. But what comes next for you? and where can we find everything you're up to? You can find me. You can still, I post things on a half-white son of a black man's Facebook page. I've been doing these, since I've been social distancing,

I've been doing these cold reads where like throughout the weekdays or as many days in a row as I can, I will cold read from something that I have in my house, basically, or that I can find online, like chapters from books, I was reading something the other day called Slash of the Titans, which is about the road to the Freddie versus Jason movie and all the different scripts and screenwriters that were involved in that. Oh, cool.

Great book to track down if you ever get the chance. So I've been trying to move those over to the Facebook page for Half White Sounded of Black Man as well. I think you can probably, like, if you search me, you should be able to find that on my Facebook because I think it's public right now. That might change at one point. We'll see what happens. Go on to my Instagram,

half white, some of a black man. I recently put out a challenge for people, if you're a performer like myself, or even if you're not a performer and you're currently social distancing. I've been doing something called social distancing self-tape, which is, and that's the hashtag.

It's hashtag social distancing self-tape where people sit down and they self-tape themselves doing a two-to-three-minute monologue. Just for fun, just to get more art out there while all this is going on. Also, there's things that are still coming down the pipeline, but I wrote a comic book at one point that you can read on my website,

Halfwhite's none of the black man.com. It was drawn by the great Joe Cabotete, one of my favorite people of all the time. And yeah, just go through the Halfwhite Son of that Black Man is on a hiatus, but definitely if you like this episode, go back and look at some of the Shocktobers, find the ones that Ryan has, I think Ryan's done one every year almost. There might have been like one year where I think you didn't do one,

but I had like one year where I, I got married in October, and there were few episodes that year. I know, right? The nerve. But there's great episodes from that. That's something that I absolutely love. We've had some great people there. Or if you just want to listen to news from a time that was like happier, maybe even like two months ago.

Just go and check out the website. I love it. Super proud of it. There's a lot of fun to be had from it. And just keep your eyes feel. I'll pop up here and there. Check out my episode. I was like you.

I was on an episode of, well, you were on several, but I was on an episode of Mysteries Decoded. If you want to see me, go chase Bigfoot, with a gentleman named Todd Standing.

And I know a lot of people have different feelings about Todd, and I understand that. He actually has a nickname that I heard recently, which I was not aware of before. Can you share that on there? No.

Okay, fair enough. I don't want to, I don't want to just, even though he has gone to great lengths to talk shit about me, since the episode has come out. I'm not going to sink to his level. We'll put it that way.

But you should definitely watch that episode. It was a lot of fun. Love Jennifer Marshall, the host of that show. She's a badass. And it was a lot of fun to shoot regardless of the aftermath. Well, I got to, did you find Bigfoot? We'll leave that to the audience. Oh, you got to watch the episode.

Got to watch the episode. Yep. Everyone can go watch that at cwc.com. It's free to stream right now. Yeah, you can watch it for free. Yeah, man. Might as well with all this. Yeah, and watch your episodes too.

Yeah, exactly. Awesome, man. Well, I got to thank you for coming on today. Please be safe, be healthy. And yeah, thanks for joining me again on somewhere in the dark skies. It was my absolute pleasure, my brother. Love to you and Jane. And please you stay safe as well.

UFOs seem to be invading both our skies and our news outlets like never before. And more people are starting to look up. and are wondering who or what might be out there. In 2016, Ryan Sprague introduced the world to countless UFO encounters that had never been made public before. And now, in the second edition of his book, he revisits these events and introduces brand-new UFO cases, in somewhere in the skies, a human approach to the UFO phenomenon. How have these events changed the lives of those involved? And what might it tell us about the phenomenon?

With in-depth follow-ups, brand new chapters and detailed testimony from credible witnesses and insight from those in the psychological, academic, and scientific fields. Somewhere in the Skies, a human approach to the UFO phenomenon, weaves together a story of stories, attempting to get to the heart of these mysteries one experience at a time. Available now on Amazon in both paperback and e-book. To learn more, visit somewhere in the skies.com. This is Somewhere in the Sky's. Skies with Brian Spread. Today on the show, we are joined by television writer, comedian, Bigfoot Hunter, and podcast host, Andrew Sanford.

Hot on the heels of the exciting news of signatures of alien life, possibly being detected on Venus. We are taking a look at two movies that ask the questions, are we alone? And if not, how can we make contact? Although these movies couldn't be any more diametrically. posed with how they decide to answer these questions. First up, we look at 1996's The Arrival. Best line of the movie, Zane says, actually, I look like a can of smashed assholes.

And then we jump ahead 20 years to 2016's arrival. The movie is sad because it's so hopeful. When the movie came out, it felt more within grasp. But since then, I've just gone further away from that kind of hopefulness and what humanity is capable of. And like, don't get me wrong, it was humanity under extreme circumstances, but, you know, we're in pretty fucking extreme circumstances right now and we're not doing a great. It is a rollercoaster of emotions as we navigate our way through both films in all their amazing and ridiculous glory. You have arrived to the arrivals. Welcome everyone to a very special episode of Summer in the Skies.

Today we are joined by one of my best friends, colleagues, and just all around awesome dude. Andrew Sanford is joining us for an epic movie showdown between 1996's The Arrival and 2016's Arrival. Andrew, how you doing, buddy? Ryan! Hello, hello. I'm happy to be here for the... Oh, God. How many, I'm trying to think of the amount of movies we've talked to, like,

because we've got, we talked about it on here. Yep. We talked about fire in the sky. We talked about communion. The other sky, communion. Fuck, I forgot about communion. How could you forget that one? I don't know.

What was the other one we did? The other, the other sky one, the great skies, dark skies. Dark skies. Dark skies. Dark skies. Oh, gritty, gritty sky. I want to see that movie. Gritty Skies.

It sounds like an early Oliver Stone movie or something. No, it's Gritty Skies. It's just that hockey mascot. Gritty. Is that his name? I don't know. It doesn't matter. I'm happy to be here.

I'm thrilled to be here to talk to you, to talk about these movies. It's going to be great. It'll be fun. It'll be emotional. It'll be traumatizing. and everything. Yes. Yeah.

And then we'll talk about the movies. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Exactly. If anyone can't tell Andrew is a comedy writer, boom. Ooh. Oh, no. Nah.

So what's been going on in your world during this continued lockdown of the world? Are you staying busy? I have a feeling we're going to have a creative renaissance after this is all done. I friggin hope so, man. Yeah. I've absolutely I think that staying busy is a perfect way to put it. I've been

just trying to write as much as humanly possible until I run out of ideas which luckily hasn't happened yet. Working on a pilot with a like a project pilot thing with an old teacher and good friend of mine

which I'm very excited about or just wrote another pilot on my own which was something that I just wanted to like get out there. I'm just trying to, you know, make sure that I don't, like, to use my free time well, because while New York is not the war zone slash housecape that some people have tried to claim that it is anymore, even though, I mean, I don't have to tell you the things. We're up there for a couple months.

We talked about that last time we talked. But, you know, things have gotten a lot better, but it's still not like, you know, I'm not riding the subway every day or I'm not hopping around all over the place. And as far as my day jobs are concerned, none of that has come back yet. So I'm just trying to make sure that I stay productive and stay sane and watch movies. My wife and I watch a movie almost like almost every day, if not every other day. We'll just like, all right, it's dinner time. Let's watch a movie.

And at first it was like a fun like, oh, we'll try to like watch more movies this way. And as we're in month six now, it's been like, all right, can we not watch a movie tonight? It's a real champagne problem. It is, right? And I mean, I watched, I think, all six seasons of Lost within like a two-week span. So I will never get that time back. But I love Lost. It's my third time watching it all the way through.

And I'm the same way. You know, it's like a movie a night or 10 episodes of the office for the one millionth time. Oh, dude, same. Yeah, yeah, it's comforting. And I think that's why a lot of people watch these shows, Parks and Rec, the office, over and over. I put it on to go to sleep because you know what comes next and it's comforting. And God forbid, like we feel some sense of, you know, normalcy or comfort during these uncertain times. Yeah, no, yeah.

I, at the beginning of this, watched through 30 Rock. and now recently my wife joy has been watching it for the first time like watching through it she seemed like after here and there but yeah and i was just like oh cool i'll pop in whatever whenever or what have you because i've seen that show just a bunch it's one of my favorites of all time and instead i'm just i'm constantly just like oh you put on 30 rock i'll stop what i'm doing and come right like it's just it you're right it's it's something it hits a little part of my brain where I'm just like, hey, you want to feel good for like 25 minutes? Yeah, yeah, I know, man.

I mean, and I'm, the next one on my list is, uh, this new show on Netflix called Away with, uh, Hillary Swank. And it's about them going to Mars for the first time, the first man or woman, I guess, uh, ex, you know, expedition to Mars. So as a lot to do with what we're going to be talking about today. Um, yeah. But I got to ask you, before we get to these two, movies. The latest news that broke this week as of us recording this is on Monday scientific

researchers published showings of phosphine, a possible signature of life present in the atmosphere of Venus. What do you think of this man? Did you wake up to this news just as surprised as the rest of us? I was totally surprised. I think I saw somebody put it perfectly, which is that like, because I even got like a little Apple alert on my phone. The Apple News, of just like signs of life discovered on Venus. And it's just this quick, like, your heart palpitates a little bit. You're like, it's very exciting. But then when I looked into it, I was like,

I don't know what this means. I'm going to wait until Thursday for Ryan to explain it. So I kind of like stayed away for it. So what do, as someone who I'm sure looked into it much more than I did, what do you think? Well, it's exciting. I mean, a lot of, you know, it's not the aliens are on Venus that we're all looking for or ever.

expected. I mean, Venus was not a planet that most scientists ever thought could harbor life. It's so damn hot that it would be impossible for anything to really live there, according to our standards and our, you know, carbon makeup, as it were. So, I mean, it wasn't somewhere they were looking, but lo and behold, they found these gases floating in the clouds in the atmosphere there, and they believe that there are signatures of phosphine, which shouldn't exist. And, there and the scientists are completely dumbfounded and surprised and just like we are they're like what the F like we we we've been searching for life elsewhere in other galaxies but we never thought we would find it in our own solar system so hey look it's early stages but it's exciting nonetheless

and it shows that you know just because we don't think it could exist or thrive somewhere else because of how we were evolved and all of that doesn't mean it can exist. So this is pretty exciting. I'll add this, NASA, they have an extensive astrobiology program that is always searching for life. And they were quoted on this story as saying, you know, we look for life in many different ways across the solar system and beyond. Over the past two decades, we've made new discoveries that collectively imply a significant, increase of the likelihood to find life elsewhere. I'll add this too. As with an increasing number of planetary bodies, Venus is proven to be an

exciting place of discovery. And there are missions now going to Venus to try to capture this, man, see if we can get any more information. And it is possible. That's how some horror movies start. Yep. And hey, look, we have brought back things for Mars. or, you know, various other places where there have been signs of life. So it's a little creepy, man. I mean, you know, that stuff breaks free and gets out. That's how you have, like you said, these Michael Crichton stories popping up. That's right.

So it kind of leads into what we're going to be talking about today, the possibility of alien life and the possibility of making contact. So we're going to start with 1996s, the arrival, directed about. by David Tooey. Station 5. Is my voice even vaguely familiar to you, Zay? I really don't want to repeat of last week. Look, if I say I'm going to be there, I will be there.

End of story. There's nothing more important to me right now than I. Friction for ETs in this political environment is a tough seller. I cut me with the possibility of extra solar life. I can't for it. They're acting like it never happened. It's like we never gave him any tape. The first signal is definitely sky-based, but this one is earth-based.

Something's going on here, Sharr. What is it that they're trying to, hide. It's a troubled young man. Why are you telling them lies about me? I want my tape back. I want it back.

They've branded his theory, paranoid. There are some DOD guys here going through our stuff. I don't know who these guys are, but I do know that they're lying to you. And the only ones who believe what's coming. If they're not here now,

they won't be soon. Posing. Are the ones who've already arrived. Right now, as much as you think you know, you don't know the half of it. Why did they leave? They didn't.

How do you know? because we aren't dead yet I know why they're here start watching the look back Charlie Sheen Ron Silver The arrival Like I said

You didn't know the half of it Now before we get to the premise of this movie Andrew David Tewy Do you know anything about this guy? I don't I saw that it was written and directed by and I didn't did too much deeper

I feel like I almost did this was one I'll get into my watching experience of both of these movies in a minute but yeah I didn't but I you know anybody who's able to write and then direct or direct a movie that they wrote

is a hard enough thing to be given anyway you have to have at least usually some sort of a proven track record unless you're Madonna and that is not even that is like half a joke that's really happening I know but so I was

kind of in i was like oh somebody wrote and directed this interesting um oh what what do you what do you know about it all right well talk about a track record you're ready for this david too sure he wrote pitch black oh gee j oh after this then yeah oh wow uh what else water world you're gonna like these last two though and you wait a minute wait a minute you think that's bad wait wait for this I think you like this movie, if I can, if I remember correctly, the fugitive. He wrote The Fugitive. Yeah. Wow.

You know what? I, yes. I love that. It's a great movie. And last but not least, he wrote Critters 2. Yeah. Wow. So, yeah, he's no slouch, man.

Wow. I was about to say, it does not surprise me, because I think fugitive probably would have been a couple, like, probably two or three years before this went into production. and he was, I'm sure, a hot property after that. That movie blew up. It was huge, huge, huge. Let's get to the cast here before the premise. We've got pre-insane crazy version of this man.

We've got Charlie Sheen, Lindsay. Who was my same age when he made this movie. Are you serious? Yes, he was 31 years old. Unless I read that incorrectly, he was born in 1965. And when I read that he was 31 years old, I was like, I don't know if he looks bad or if I look great. Dude, trust me, the older you get, the more of those existential comparisons you'll start to make. Yeah, or vice versa.

I was like, maybe he looks great and I look back. Because at first, at one point, Ron Silver calls him a young man. And I was like, Charlie, she's like 45 years old in this movie. That I looked at up. God, don't remind me. Who else we got Lindsay Krauss, who I'm not? Lizzie Krauss, yes. She, I looked her up because I thought that was Shar at first.

But it's not. It's the green woman because, and she's had a pretty expensive career. Not this, not that this defines her, but she was married to David Mamet for a while. Oh, wow. And, yeah, and has like a bit, like that's a heavy, her and Richard Schiff, both being in this movie, those are, and Ron Silver. There's some heavy hitters actor-wise in this movie. Yeah, there are. I know, what a great cast.

And you know what? Honestly, besides our main protagonist, which we'll get to, pretty damn well acted, in my opinion. They really gave their old. Yeah, no, everybody, there's definitely something to be said for the fact that, like, everybody was taking the movie seriously. Yes. which always helps, whether good or bad, you want people to, like, especially when it comes to, like, heavier themes. And it's also something where I would wonder,

because the movie was ironically enough, too, especially because having Ron Silver, who was at the time a Democrat, but the movie is very liberal and progressive in its message. It's talking about climate change. They take a shot at the NRA at one point. They say global warming at a time when I was like, This is 1996.

Like, you didn't, if you talked about global warming, you got laughed off. Like, I mean, there was, some of that talk was happening. But, like, it wasn't, you know, that was, I would almost call it, like, just as fringe of a belief as, like, believing in aliens. Right. It was, it was definitely this premise and overall theme of this movie was definitely, I think, ahead of its time. And a lot of people have compared this and the other movie we're going to talk about to,

you know, the ground. breaking film contact, you know. Oh, sure. And very similar sort of premise, but this movie came two years prior to that. So, I mean, you gotta give credit where credits do. They were kind of pioneering this idea of the making contact with aliens via the actual way in reality that we are trying to do that.

And that's through, you know, the search for extraterrestrial intelligence, SETI, trying to look for. radio wave transmissions or stuff like that. So I think, you know, again, original idea at the time. Yes, we've had many movies throughout the decades of trying to make contact with aliens and this and that. But, you know, right.

And even before this film, we had my stepmother as an alien, which deals with a very similar way of contacting aliens. And it's funny you mentioned contact company, because I would think of contact being both quality and, like, kind of in the middle of both these movies. I actually saw contact for the first time this summer. I had never seen that movie. Really? Yeah, yeah.

Yep, just had never seen it. And I watched it and I was like, oh, like there's plenty. Like, there's a lot of it that's really good. And a lot of it, like, you know, there's some stuff that hasn't aids, like, super well. But one thing that that movie has over both of these is that it has Jake Busey in it. And I don't get enough, I don't get enough Jake Bucy in my life. Oh, man. Could you imagine Jake Bucy was in this movie with Charlie Sheen?

Oh, off the charts. It would have been so good. Like, hey, I'll throw a pitch out. I would have rather had Jake U.S. instead of Charlie Sheen. Let's do it. Retroactive movie. Yeah, right?

Yeah, well, to do one of those deep fake things. They've got basically the same kind of haircut. What is going on with his haircut? I don't want to, like, listen. Listen, it was 1996. There's a lot of different, but I was like, I don't understand this man's weird, like. The buzz cut?

It's almost like a haircut. that started as a buzz cut. It's like if you take long hair and make it a buzz cut, you know what I mean? Like, it's not a close cut. It's just, it was an odd look for him. Somebody who was, and who knows,

maybe this still would have been the case. But I think, you know, Charlie She was a bit of a sex symbol for a while. And to see him like this, to see him like this, I was like, huh.

I was like, maybe they're trying to dumb him down because he is a, what would his exact title be, like a radio astrology? or astronomer? Astronomer, yep, exactly. It's just astronomer, but I feel like he added some extra qualification

because he's an astronomer that's looking for sound waves. He's not looking for like constellations or anything. Right, right. They all add, you know, credits, all these scientists to what they are. But, you know, the official synopsis calls him a radio astronomer. I don't know. Gotcha. He's not an astrobiologist or astrophysicist or anything of that sort.

So yeah, I guess I would just go with radio astronomer. Gotcha. Speaking of it, do you want me to read the synopsis? Yes. Yes. So we have the arrival. Zane, an astronomer, discovers intelligent alien life. But the aliens are keeping a deadly secret and we'll do anything to stop Zane from learning it.

Love it. Love it. Wee-wee-wee-wee. Let's dive right in, man. I want to talk about this opening scene because I actually love this hook. Like this is like the cold open you'd see on the X-Files

or, you know, the outer limits or something. Yeah. The whole thing felt very like he makes a tales from the dark side reference at one point. Yeah, he did. And the whole story felt very much like that. It did. Like a longer episode. Yep, it did. It felt like it could have been, you know,

shaved down to 45 minutes and called the day. but uh right they stretch this thing out to almost two hours jesus christ um bro and oh i mean it was even more than that because i watched it for free on oh god so you got and it had commercials oh my god it was like i i think i was texting you at like two it's like what what time like 345 right now i was texting you at 245 having pretty much just finished this movie because i started it around like noon and i then I was like, oh, no, because I wanted it to be fresh because I had never seen it before. So you're going to have plenty to say, then.

Oh, boy. Well, let's talk about the opening scene. Yeah, we're talking to the opening, sure. This woman, who we learn is Ilana Green. Mm-hmm. She is a climatologist, and she is in a field taking photos, picking out some poppies, a poppy field, as it were. and then we get the line, it shouldn't be here,

which was like, okay, why? And then what do we do? Do it super zoom out. And she's like the tundra, the Antarctic or something like that, which, whoa, when I didn't remember that opening scene, because I saw this movie when it first came out or was put on VHS.

And I don't remember this opening scene having as much impact, probably because I was too young to understand what global warming or climate change actually was. because like you said, it wasn't taken seriously back then. So when they zoomed out and it was in the Antarctic and I watched it this time, I'm just like, holy shit, we are living this right now.

Like look at San Francisco. Look at everything. All these horrible things going on in the world environmentally. And it was terrifying. So in that sense, I think the message of this movie, which we will get to is very vital. Yeah, man. Yeah, it was one of those things.

where I really liked that opening hook and then was just like, oh, cool, so they're going to be going up the Arctic. No. Nope. Like, it's just like, we'll show you that. Give you no, at least unless I missed something, there's no real explanation. She's in the middle of Antarctica when they pull back. Right.

How? How? How did she get all the way out there? She's got no, like, I was just kind of flabbergasted by that. I was like, this is a cool hook. but then it like, the whole, the whole movie to me kind of rested on some of these ideas that are like fun to present and then have like no follow-up or no like really,

like there's stuff about it later. Like if you think about it for more than two seconds, it makes no sense. Oh, absolutely. The logic of this movie is just... It's all over the place. It's all over. And we'll hit some of those plot points for sure.

Sure. All right. So then we get our opening titles. All right. Sorry. God, I'm going to be doing this so much tonight. The arrival.

Right. There we go. And we meet, we meet Zane and we meet Kelvin, the odd couple of radio astronomy. And I, now that signal comes, so they're doing the radio astronomy business.

They have happened what anyone in their position only dreams up, right? Oh, absolutely. Their life's mission is to find something like this to happen. And the way they react felt like they were reacting to like, like, their favorite song just came on the radio or something like that. You know what I mean? Yeah, they were just like, yeah, who, woo, woo!

Like, it seemed like such a strange. I was like, guys, you should be like, I cry at the drop of the hat. So I don't assume that everybody should just be like in tears, but I'm like, this is what you wanted. This is what you've been working your whole life towards. Like, it's happening right now. And it's just kind of like, it's not even like it's like a stunned reaction. I mean, Richard Schiff pees on his shoes a little bit. But there's like, aside from that, I'm just like, guys, this is like this is it.

And they're just like, yeah, okay, record, record. Like, and they get it. And then it stopped. And they're like, oh, man, all right, got to go talk to Ron Silver like the next day. Like, it's just. Yeah. Right. Here's my argument to that. And I'm not defending their acting choices or anything. Right. Character standpoint, I'm thinking, you know, yes, they wait for this their whole life, but they get some false positives when it comes to.

You know, and I've spoken to actual people who worked at SETI. And dude, like, yeah, they get little small blips here and there constantly. And then their job is to either figure out what it actually was. it's usually always a radio wave or television wave bouncing back at us, you know, from our... You know what? You're retracted. I retract my criticism of that, then. So they're trained to kind of keep cool when these things do happen, in my opinion. I think that's what's going on in the scene. It's done like, okay, we need to follow protocol.

Like, just make sure it's recording. Make sure this. Let's deduce this. So that's kind of how I took it. I also think Charlie Sheen is just a terrible actor, but we will get to that. Yeah. But you do make a good point. Like, okay, we're dropped into this movie where probably for most of their careers,

this has never happened. And then, of course, the minute the film drops us in there, it happens, which is, you know, that's what movies and plays are. We're dropped into the lives of these people at the most pivotal moment of their lives. And this is probably right. So, yeah. So they get this message and they are not sure what the hell to make of it. It's this really weird radio wave signal audio.

And like you said, they, they're super excited. They get all of the data down, this, that, this, that. And they're trying to call other, you know, radio astronomers throughout the country to make sure someone else heard this. And they can't get a hold of anyone, which I thought it was kind of weird. Like, there's got to be somebody else out there hearing this or listening. Right. Or you're just telling me every university or astronomer is asleep right now while this is happening. You know what?

So at least they do the due diligence to say like, oh, tribe reaching out to this person. They didn't answer. Oh, this person didn't answer either. So I'm like, okay, at least they answered that question of just like, why is no one else hearing this? But yeah, it is kind of silly for that answer to be like, they're asleep. Because we're the only ones that are taking this serious. So it's just, yeah. Yeah.

I think, you know, rewinding a little bit too, before they get. the message. I think we have to give them credit for this. They show how fucking boring it is for these people. Yes. Like they're just waiting. Calvin is asleep. Droom. And then we've got, we've got Zane whose girlfriend calls him

and says, when are you coming home? Like I, like, this is her exact line. I want your ass in bed. That's what she says. Yes. Yes. We'll get to more of that movie. Oh, I mean, some of the, some of the dialogue is one point she says to him put your paranoia back in your pants

and I was just like okay I've got direct quotes written down these are gonna yeah yeah so okay so this message they get it's like 45 seconds long and like you mentioned they bring it to their boss at JPL the Jet Propulsion Laboratory in California and dude this place

has like a super strong mythology within um really UFO world and uh the occult world as well um ooh the dude who started jPL was working with like weird satanists and occultists before he started this company um what really like really like proven like that oh god yes but yes wow if you go back i think it was even um on drunk history when they covered they covered they covered like the beginnings of NASA and JPL and they did cover this. Oh, God. The guy's name is escaping me right now,

but he was big into occultism in America. He was in New York City. And the guy who started JPL was like in this weird love triangle with this guy and his wife. And they did all these weird sex rituals and like just super strange stuff, man. And then he went on to form like one of the most, uh, prestigious jet propulsion places in the world. So, yeah, really, really weird when some of these companies are steeped in. Yeah, but moving on from that, they go to their boss to give this news.

And who was this again, their boss? Ron Silver is his name. What do I know this is? He was all over the place, especially in the 90s. You ever see Time Cop? He's the bad guy. It's time cop. Oh, yes.

Yes. And he was noted for he was a Democrat at this time. I was looking at this up because I thought I was like, oh, man, it must have been weird for him to be in this movie because he was. So he essentially, he was somebody who was a Democrat until 9-11 happened. And then he thought the Democratic response to that and terrorism was not strong enough. So he became an independent, started supporting George Bush, was working hand in hand with George Bush up until his death in 2009.

However, it was, it was revealed by his brother, like, a year after his death, that he had voted for Obama because he very much wanted to see an African-American president. So he had an interesting, like, last decade of his life. Yeah. Interesting. Real interesting guy. But you can see, like, if somebody was, like, a Democrat. It almost made me start wanting to look into the, like, political line leanings of everybody in this movie,

especially the director because again like it's very much like it's very very much a progressive movie it has its midsteps like kiki um or get to that yep um but you know it's like the overall message of the movie centering on climate change in a time when like mainstream like independence day doesn't even really get into like a lot of those mainstream action movies and stuff especially in the 90s are like apolitical and sometimes That's a good point, though, and I think that might be why this movie didn't do as well for many reasons, but I think this is one of them, is it did have a strong stance on things that not all Americans or not all humans agree with. And that's hard when you're kind of putting your foot down in your film and saying, this is my message, this is my theme. I think it's interesting. And again, we'll get to why global warming plays such a big part in this. but okay so they gave so yes because i will need you to explain it to me because there are a couple

of times i can't pretend i didn't know it all but we will try um zane and uh calvin bring this information to their boss at uh jpl slash i guess they're kind of working with nassa they're not you know directly related but uh their boss is like i i don't know what you want me to do with this um like also you're fired right right right bring him, and I think Zane actually says, I bring you the most groundbreaking discovery we've had in forever, and you're firing me? And she's like, what the hell is going on here?

Why would the boss do this? It's even more confusing because that starts with him being like, there's nothing here. Oh, oh, you mean the signal came out? And then it didn't repeat and then we didn't see it again. And then moments later, he's like, this is a huge scientific fine. This is exactly what you've been looking for.

But I got to let you go. just like, what? We just took like a big shift. Yeah, it was a very unbalanced scene, I would say. Yeah. So he fires Zane, and then we see his boss destroy the tape. So what's going on there? We'll get to it.

What else here? Oh, and then, so Zane, he's fired, and it kind of, you know, he tells his girlfriend and we've come to find out yeah he's been doing this job forever he's kind of lacked in the boyfriend department and the rip is very strained in many ways uh but he does immediately god wouldn't this be nice you get let go from a job and then like days later you get another job but he starts working for like a satellite company you know very run-of-the-mill does he taller job. Does he?

Because Yeah, why do you ask? Well, because I was confused all of the sense. Like, let me be very clear about something. I was going to say that. I watched both of these movies in the last 24 hours. Okay. So last night,

last night I was a little tired. And I put on arrival. I was like, I might fall asleep just because I was like, beat. It was a long day. But I was like, you know what? I've seen this movie a bunch. I really like this movie. I put it on. and I couldn't look away.

Like I was woken up by that movie. I love that movie. I was attentive the entire time I watched it. I put this on today. I woke up this morning. I went for a run. I came back. I had breakfast.

I had two big cups of coffee. I had to write an article for Pajibah.com. No big feel. Check out Pajibah. And I, um, smooth. Smooth. Very smooth. And then I put this movie on.

I'm like, all right. ready to pay attention to a movie. When I tell you that this thing, I had the hardest time staying engrossed in this movie. So at a certain point, and Joy watched it with me. At a certain point, I looked at the TV and I was like, wait a minute, is he a handyman now? Because all of a sudden he starts running, he runs into that little, um, the, uh, Ted talk or whatever it is that the guy is attending, right? Yeah. And that his former boss is attending. and he's mad because he found out that like he didn't share the tape. Yeah.

Right? And he's got that outfit on and the name tag isn't his name. And then that becomes a recurring thing as he's like working on other people's satellites. Yeah. So I just started to wonder. I was like, is this a real, and this could have happened. Did I miss the scene where he's just like, well, if I got this job now, or well, I got to do this for money now?

Or did he just all of a sudden had this van. and several different name tags and outfits. Holy shit. I didn't even, I didn't, yeah, where's the, where is the connector between that? I don't know. That's a really good point, man. And if I missed it, yeah, if I missed it,

if somebody wants to start flaming me on Twitter, that's fine. Like, that's why you got to really pay attention to a movie. But I swear to God, it was like, I blinked. And all of a sudden he's rushing into this place with his outfit on. on and I was just like, oh, okay, so he's pretending to be a handyman to get in there.

And then I was like, wait, what's, why is that not his name? Like, never once did he wear a name tag that says Zane on it. Right. Zane Ziminski. That's some classic, classic name stuff going on. That was a Stan Lee name right there, man. Yeah, for real, yes. Matt Murdoch, Peter Parker.

I could go on. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Bruce Banner. It's all, it's all. It's just superheroes and jokes. general. Yeah, you could tell this writer definitely was a comic book fan. That's such a good point. Okay, well, you know, let's let's suspend our disbelief for a moment and say, done. He's working for some satellite repair company. So, you know, fell on hard times.

Fell on some hard times. It really does. And, you know, just like any guy, when you're that beaten down and whatnot, like it starts to take a toll on you. And, you know, you don't, you don't feel your self-worth anymore. But before he loses all self-worth, we get our first shot of Zane post-coitus, I think, or pre-coitus, I can't really tell. Out on his dock, his, he's not fishing. Out on his deck. Yep.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. In the news, what did you think, Andrew? Well, here's a question for you, Ryan. Why was he wet? And why was she not? he was very perspiring yes for certain during several points of the movie to the point where i almost thought like not to jump ahead too far but there's later on where he's wearing a disguise that starts to fail and it looks like he's sweating through it yeah and i was like have they been

showing him being perpetually sweaty for this entire movie just to set up that one bit because if so that's almost kind of genius yeah but then they don't get into like they don't elaborate on whether or not that's why the costume was failing. But yeah, I saw that scene happen and I was just like, wait, why is he wet? And why is she not? It seemed like maybe she was getting out of the show. I don't know. Yeah, that was something where I was just like, there were several times where I said out loud,

what is this movie? Yep, yeah. What is it trying to be? And we'll definitely get to that. It is. It's trying to be a lot of different things. But so, okay, so we get our first. scene of his more of his body than I think any of us truly wanted to see but like you said he was

kind of a sex symbol back then and I guess I guess I kind of blacked that out of my memory I don't remember many films he did I did watch the hot shots movies uh really what was that other platoon was that his um no he was in uh man he did one of those like vietnam movies yeah yes I don't want to It might have been Platoon. I don't think it was full metal jacket. No, no. But it was, hold on, I'm going to pull up his Wikipedia right now because we're just going to be those kind of people.

Exactly. People scream to that way. Oh, it was Platoon. Yeah, you know it. 86. And I saw, I definitely saw the hot shot. I loved Hot Shots part deuce. So funny.

Growing up. And a Major League, which he was in the first two. Oh, my God, dude. I think. And I loved those. Yeah. What was his name in that? that? Oh, shoot. Let me see. Wild thing. Rick Vaughn. Wild thing, Rick Vaugh. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Dude, I didn't even look that up. I was obsessed with, I was obsessed with Major League 2 so much so that the Cleveland Indians became my team after I saw the first movie. And I only liked them because of these movies. So there's your allegiance right there for a baseball team. Oh, in the scene, too, we should mention on the shelf.

in, I think his bedroom, we get a shot of Carl Sagan's Cosmos book, which is what the movie Contact is based on. So there's a nice little Easter egg or homage right there. Sure, yeah. I almost feel like it was like a race to do movies about that kind of stuff in the late 80s into the 90s.

And it wasn't until you do one. Because I would argue, like, of the three that we mentioned this contact, and my stepmother is an alien. Contact is the most successful of those movies. That directly, like, you, like, they jokingly have, I think Carl Sagan, like, Carl Sagan's voice, quote unquote, but it's actually Harry Shearer is in,

my stepmother is an alien, and then you have the book in this movie, and then you have the actual, I think Carl Sagan died, like, right before contact came out. Yeah, yeah, I think you're right. Like, I think it's dedicated to him, So it's, it's, it's, it's, it's not until you get the actual man's formula going that you have more of a success story. But, you know, yeah, that's a really, really good point.

Um, okay, so, all right, whatever. There, there, it's clear that he's a very insecure guy. His girlfriend's trying to build him up and be like, I think you're special and, like, you've always had conviction. But like, you got to just accept this and move on. Like, right. It was a fluke. know, this, that, but he's convinced, like, he heard something. He found probably one of the biggest things in, in history, a message from aliens. So what does he do? He uses what we're saying was his

new job as a repairman for satellite dish, like a dish sort of situation. This is pretty cool. He goes to all these houses to, quote unquote, repair their satellites, and he makes it so they all triangulate to like one specific coordinate so that he can now do what he was doing at his old job from, I'm guessing, the attic of his house and set this up. So now he's got his own little mini setty radio astronomer headquarters in his house. This is pretty cool. Yeah, absolutely. No, yeah. And it was one of those things too where I, um, I like, at the beginning, like there are moments to where this movie where I was like, oh, I like where this is heading. Like, this is an interesting

kind of like, you know, like, let's see. And it, I made the mistake of watching arrival first because I can't, I can't lie. Yes. Yep, I can't lie and say that I wasn't like projecting on this movie, but I was like,

oh, cool, maybe he's going to try to still contact these aliens, despite being fired from his official position. Like, he's going to try to do, like, almost like the opposite of what's done in arrival where he's not getting government support. And he's just trying to see, like, well, government damned, these things are going to try to talk to us and I'm going to try to talk to them. And then instead, it just gets much more confusing.

It does. It does. You know what confused me too were those steampunk sunglasses he was rocking this whole film. Bro. Oh, my God. I'm so glad you just said something. I, oh, holy shit. Those look so awful and so 90s.

And what's even worse is at one point, I feel like they were using the sunglasses to show us that, like, he's over the deep end because when we see him like over the deep end, he's got these weird giant yellow sunglasses. Yeah, yeah. Like, but there's one point where he's got both of them, like, hanging from his necklasser shirt. He's got two pairs.

What is going on with this guy? I think you're, like, what the, He's just losing it, dude. He's losing it. And that's a big part of this character, we should mention. He is very paranoid in many parts of his life. And he has a reason to, clearly, for, uh, when it comes to him

and his girlfriend, dude, like, what a piece of shit, possessive asshole he was. I mean, like, he's accusing his girlfriend of cheating on him, um, because a guy talked to her at one point. And I'm just like, this is the kind of guy you have to stay away

from. Because, hey, Zane is not in a good place and be charlie sheen acting this part it looks like he wants to beat the shit out of everyone he talks to yeah yeah moments notice and it's one of those things too where you're watching it and you're just like so wait why is he like it's almost like did we miss a scene did the young like the dude who's like 10 years old younger than the both of them like say something untowards to him earlier has he heard about him before or was that literally just a random guy in her office. He's like, yes, he's going to? Like, you're just going to go. Or in the very

beginning, he's on the phone call. Don't talk to any strangers on your way out of the bar. He's pissed that she's out at a bar. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Yes. He's like, you're at a bar while I'm at work. It's like, motherfucker, you don't know. Maybe she's not working right now. What's supposed to do? Wait at home for you.

Like, when you can she go to a bar by yourself? He's not a likable lead by like any stretch of the imagination. Which makes it a slog to, follow him through this. But the only thing that really kept me going was, you know, I've been there. I'm, I, you know, shout from the rooftops every day. Like, UFOs are real. Please, somebody believing. And, you know, that's kind of happening in today's society. We're getting closer and closer in many ways. So I understand that need and want for people to, you want vindication. And he's been put smack dab in the middle of this huge conspiracy

and no one will believe him. So I understand that, but this is just a poorly, poorly written character. And on top of having an actor who doesn't understand it, it just makes it even worse. But let's, uh, okay. Now, there were several times where he's like ringing off, like saying certain, like, jargon as far as being like a radio astrachymar, and I was just like, you don't know anything that you just said.

You have no idea what you're saying. Like do a little research. You know, it's really funny before we go any further. So I told, before we got on, I told you I was writing down notes. I've got one, two, three, four, five. I've got six full pages for the arrival, which makes no sense. How does that happen? How does that happen?

It's because one movie makes sense and another one doesn't. And there's something to be said about the fact. that arrival is very minimalist. It's a big budget, like big, like it's a big movie, but it's still like in the grand scheme of things, we're in like three locations. We're at Herra College. We're at the site where everything's going on and we're inside the ship.

Aside from that, we really don't go anywhere else. This movie, for some reason, goes fucking everywhere. Antarctica, California, Mexico. Mexico, back to California, back to like the middle of the desert, I guess. Like just all these things right, just like none of this is like helping. And it's probably why the movie costs $25 million to make. Holy shit. In 1996.

Oh, you know where most of that I went to to our mansion. Oh, yeah, yeah. And the stunning special effects, which we will get to. Let's get back to, I guess, our next character. we're introduced to Andrew, and I know you're going to have a lot to say about this, and I'm going to shut up about it. Let's get to it. So he's got his little radio astronomy makeshift thing in his house, and someone's spying on him from the window, and we are introduced to Kiki. Who is Kiki, Andy? Yes. Kiki is a little black boy that lives next door, but doesn't really live next door.

He's there because the place he comes from in L.A. is like super dangerous, so he's, He's living with his grandma for a while. He makes it very clear pretty quick that he's not packing heat because he's not like the other people at his school or whatever. It's just this. It's weird. When you find out when there's a reveal about him later, it could almost be looked at as purposeful because both times there's two things where I'm just going to jump ahead.

Like everybody knows it's going to be spoilers for this. Oh, yeah. So just make that clear. Kiki, it turns out, is an alien. And one of the only other times where you get three interactions, like main interactions with people that end up being aliens. There's Ron Silver's character, his boss. There is Kiki.

And there is a stereotypical Mexican cab driver. Now, I was very lucky enough to take my, for Joy and I to have our honeymoon in Mexico. We had several Mexican. cab drivers and tour guides. And none of them spoke broken English the way that that character did. So it was one of those weird things

where I was just like, oh, maybe it's just that the aliens, like maybe in some deeper way the guy was trying to go like, oh, you know, if aliens come to this planet, they're going to be stereotypes of whoever they are. I feel like that's giving them too much credit. When it's also one of those tough things, it's like, listen.

And we're both, people will have probably heard Jamie Lambschick's voice at the beginning of this episode. And she imparted a great bit of a great thing to me at one point within the last like year or two, where you can't, it's hard

to have expectations on older movies to be culturally sensitive. It's just hard. You're fighting a losing battle. Some of the best movies have these blind spots and not saying that this is one of the best movies. But some of the movies before anything

before like, I don't know, 2005 and that needle moves all the time where you're just like, well, at least if you see a movie after like 2010 and they don't do anything culturally insensitive like you're in, or if they do something culturally insensitive, you're just like, come on, man, we got black present. But it's, before

that, like, in 1996 is the time, we're like, I'm sure and is it the most offensive portrayal of a little black boy? No, but it's pretty bad. It's close. Yeah, it's, pretty much. Yeah, It's pretty big. Like, he's talking about not packing heat.

He's like an idiot. He's got his hat on sideways and wearing these big baggy clothes. And I know some of that was the style at the time, but like, so is fucking Steve Urkel. So, like, you know, you can't like, it's, there's this idea where it's just like, oh, we got a little black. Yeah. Like, you know, you're just like, he's like, you want me to press this button right here? This one that my finger's above? Like, I'm just like, what is happening right now?

And then, yo. I have even, oh my God, I just realized something because he's an, oh, I'm, I'm so confused about what Kiki's role in the movie is. Okay. Yeah. Let's see if it unfurls as we explore this extremely deep film. Oh, yeah, Charlie Sheen does tell Kiki, shouldn't you be out tagging something? Jesus Christ. Oh, yes.

Oh, and that was one where I was like a hate using Zeminke. like I don't understand it like that's what you have to say like and it's one of those tough things it's it's honestly it's made even more glaring by the fact that and unless I miss somebody this is the only African-American character in the film yes it is yeah the only one yeah so it's when you start to get to a point where it's like what what are we saying here like yeah what is this is how you're going to react to interact with the only black person like I don't know it's just it was it was pretty right. That was that that made me like as a person of color. I saw that happen and I was just like this is. It's cringe worth. It really is. It's bad. But again, I can only I can only get so mad. It was 1996.

I like it just at a certain point it just fucking is what it is. And it's hard too man. It goes it always goes back to that whole, you know, debate we've we've been having a lot lately with the Me Too movement and stuff like this. Like how do when when when can you separate? the artist's work from like what... Yeah. And that's such a hard thing with a lot of people.

So I understand. I think I... You know what it's funny? I think there was an interview with Chris Rock in the New York Times this week where he talked about the fact that Jimmy Fallon

did a blackface impersonation of him in the year 2000, right? And which Jimmy Fallon came under fire for recently. Something that was 20 years old. And Chris Rock was just like just said that he wasn't offended by it because A, he's friends with Jimmy Fallon and he likes him a lot,

but also he said that the intent is very important, which is something that intent and context is something that often gets overlooked when people are trying to attack somebody for a certain reason. When it's not, like if you can have, like if you can line up intent and context and it's like you can tell that something is like meant to be hurtful or meant to be mean-spirited or meant to be that's when you start to come into problems. But it's when something is not done for those kind of reasons. That's when you have to go, well, what do we like, is this the hill that we want to die on? You know what I mean?

This little kids, I do not think that the filmmakers were set out to be like, yeah, you know, he's going to be like a little, we're just going to like make fun of black people with this little kid. Like, I don't think that was the intention. It's just something where it's, like I said, it's a blind spot. It's something where they, when you don't have any other black people on set or behind the camera, and probably the same with Mexican people, you will find yourself doing things that you don't know where offensive. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, you just don't know.

Yeah, that's a good point. Hindsight is always 2020. But, um, yeah, of course. All right. Well, let's, I want to try to breeze through some of these five points because this, honestly, doesn't deserve as much attention as our next one. but um yeah so keiki and zane they get the signal back which is fucking incredible like how the hell that happened but um amazing and within the the message or signal they hear mexican music coming from a right a mexican uh radio station so right um that's where we're at with that and then meanwhile uh kelvin our

other radio astronomer uh wakes up and to his alarm and he goes to his alarm and he goes to turn it off, but someone else turns it off. And then we see that there are two men in suits in his bedroom and a little creepy. And then boom, after Zane gets the signal, he goes to Calvin's to be like, oh my God, I got the signal again. I got the signal. And Calvin is dead. Um, yeah, something's going on. Something weird is going on. One of those men in suits, I have to have, Leon Rippy is the man's name. Um, you'd know him if you saw he's the one that like, you see a little bit more of him later anyway just classic character after like that's a guy you've probably seen him before you'll see him again real good stuff um i always remember him very uh vividly

from the movie the patriot from the year 2000 was mel Gibson and uh yeah he's and he's ledger and yeah yeah yeah that movie that movie's pretty stacked but he's in there he has a moment where he like blows his brains out when he finds out his family he's been killed just like real solid stuff. He was in 1122, 63. This is one of the best Stephen King adaptations that ever been made. If you've never seen that, check that out. But just want to give a shout-out to Leon Rippey.

That guy's a, like, he's a, that's a classic character actor right there. Again, this cast is stacked. It really is. Oh, yeah. Yeah. God, God, I just feel so bad for them, though. Okay. Hey, they got paid. They got paid. They probably got paid well, too.

Nobody's career ended after this movie. Except, Keith. Yeah, that's true. Yeah, you can't really find anything else on him. No, unfortunately. All right. So, clearly there's a conspiracy going on. Calvin's Day. And then Zane decides to up and go to Mexico. Yay, because that's super easy when you live in California. So he does it. He gets there to try to figure out where this signal came from, a radio headquarters or something in Mexico. and then that's when our character from the beginning,

Alana Green comes back up. And she pops up every now and again in different scenes, talking about global warming, global warming, global warming, global warming. So her and Zane kind of end up in the same hacienda or something, motel. I'm not sure, Andrew, you stayed at one of these places. I don't know Mexico. Oh, yeah, I think it's just a regular motel. A hacienda is more of when it's a little bit more secluded.

And it's just like a hacienda would be more of just like, oh, it's like several houses in one area that are all like the same facility. Yeah, they were just staying in like a hotel. Gotcha. No big deal. I know. I know. You're talking to the guy who stays at budget ends.

Yeah. Yeah. But so, right? Just to like freeze through a little bit because I have to have, I have a quite like, and this is one of the things where the movie starts to. I was happy that they didn't take the opportunity to when he sees Alana Green for the first time. He does it like something catches his eye about her, I guess because she's another white person. And they're in Mexico.

But I was just like, if he talks to her right now, I'm going to be furious. Because I was like it was the most coincidental meeting possible. Oh, yeah. But he doesn't. They save that. So I'm like, okay, that's fine. But so he is later on, he's taking a bath because we've got to see more Charlie Sheen chest. More.

More. And, yes. And water starts dripping. And then suddenly the tub falls from above him. It was actually like a fun, like when it happened, I was like, oh, cool. And then it starts breaking through all the other floors. And I was like, loony tunes, man. Yeah, exactly.

I was just like, what is this? But okay, that was probably like, you know, $50,000 you could have saved to not have that extra stuff happened, but whatever. So they do that. And he chases this guy who's like was thereafter or like who did that. And not to get like to this other point yet, but it's like an assassin, right? Yeah, yeah. When he later on, yeah, polls another assassination attempt, he just puts a bunch of scorpions in someone's room.

Yes. In Alana's room. Alana Gray. So he goes from, I'm going to do the biggest, messiest thing possible to try to kill this person to, I'm just going to leave some scorpions here and like, you know, hope it all works out for the best. Like, what? What? What? He's a very uneven assassin for sure. Yeah.

And he, like, regresses. Like, you would think that it's like, oh, shit, the scorpions didn't work. Well, I'll try to drop a tub on him now. Yeah. Like, but no, it's the other. other way they're out. It's so weird, dude. This, oh, God.

Well, yeah, okay. So we got Charlie Sheen chasing this assassin who tried to kill him with five tubs going through floors of the motel, hotel. And he catches up to this guy. And all of a sudden, this guy, this guy, the Mexican assassin, as it were, we get our first special effects in the movie. where he's... Yes, oh my God, and it took so fucking long to get to that.

Again, I was watching it with commercials, too, and it would be one thing at the first, like, 45, 50 minutes would pace a little bit better, but at one point, Joy was just like, not enough aliens for me so far, I'll tell you that much, and I was like, right? Like, what is happening? Why, where are the aliens?

Yeah. Which is funny, because I'm actually the opposite. I wanted to, I wanted more of, like, the messages from space. and like more of a... You know what? That would have been great too. Yeah, yeah.

But instead we go straight sci-fi with this thing. And this assassin, his knees bend backwards. So imagine that your knees going the other way. And clearly, he's not human. He leaps about 200 feet over a wall and disappears. So clearly we're dealing with something not human, supposedly. And he's kind of mystified.

But it's okay because he still has to meet up with Alana. And they need to talk about global warming some more and why they're both in Mexico. And they kind of become a team at this point, like trying to unravel this stuff that's going on. We get probably one of the most awkward flirting things ever when it comes to these two, which again shows how much of a dirt bag. Yes. Yeah, it was so weird.

He's not quite broken up with his girlfriend, but he's like, are we going to fuck tonight? Like, what's the deal here? Yeah, with Alana Green. So let's see.

I'm going to kind of fast forward here, Andrew. Yeah, that's totally fine. So Alana's out there doing some experiments, and she gets arrested, by the police. Zane just happens to show up when this happens and tries to stop the police

and who does he see? But his boss, but it's not his boss because the guy has a mustache. A mustache. So what's going on here? Well, that's an excellent question because I have some like, because here's

something I would like, yeah, I would like to ask you. So it's the insinuation that it is literally just him in a mustache or is the insinuation that these aliens are just like, yeah, we only got so many

aliens or human skins to use. I think that's it, man, because later in the film he does say like, yo, your aliens, they should have broke the mold when they made you, man, because I saw you in Mexico with a mustache. Boom. Perfect. That's what I'm taking from it at least.

Okay, good. That's fine. I guess I missed that line. But I was just like, that first happened, I was like, even that, I was just like, that's kind of like lazy. It is. It is. There's so much logic leaps in this movie. But, um, yeah. All right, let's fast forward.

So this assassin puts scorpions in Alana's room. And I guess does she die? I didn't even notice. Like, is she gone? Eventually, we learn that she is. But the last thing that we see happen to her, she sits up in bed and screams after they, like, tease the scorpion thing for a hour of many minutes. I think I went to the bathroom and left the movie playing at that point.

Yeah, oh, I did that several times. There, but I, so they do that, and then we jump forward later and we see her corpse when he's arrested. Oh, shit, I missed that whole part. Yeah, because they, like, he's arrested. And the guy, the police chief or captain or detective or whatever in Mexico is just like, oh, yeah, you're going to see the, like, you know, it's like, well, somebody was hit a drunk track, because this is after he goes to the facility, he hits Ron Silver's character with his car,

and then keeps driving, because he goes into this deep alien facility underground thing, which is honestly, like, we can just skip that whole thing. Yeah, it was, you just know that he finds this huge underground facility with all the, and they're doing something. Yeah, and he runs that, and that's what he finds out, that, like, you know, the cab driver that he had is also an alien, and he pushes him out of an elevator that doesn't have a door for some reason,

and, like, is able to, like, and puts on this really weird makeup at one point and finds out that these aliens, like, he sees aliens, and he's playing, like, action hero for whatever reason, and he sees aliens, and it was just, like, they're using these lights that give them skin. Oh, and I'm sorry, we can't skip it entirely because here's another thing that doesn't make any sense. So the aliens stand in their little area to have the skin put on them, right? Yeah. When that happens before they put the skin on, their body starts to change.

And the things that show that their body is changing is their fingers get smaller and their knees go to the way that a normal humans would. Right. So this has to happen before they put the skin on. But then we see, but we had already seen pretty clearly that one of them is able to do that. And we see it again later with the human skin on and it makes no difference. So why even show us that that's what happens? Andrew, do not question our alien overlords. And by that, I mean, I mean, what's this guy's name again?

David Tewy wrote this. Do not question. David Tui, who I was just looking it up a little bit. I won't question him because he has written and directed not just Pitch Black, but also Chronicles of Riddick and Riddick. And is supposed to be making a new Riddick movie soon. So it's like, you know what? I don't have any successful franchises under my belt.

So you know what? Like, good on you. Oh, God. So yeah, so we're moving along. He decides to go back to California. because escaping all the stuff that happened in Mexico. They use Alana Green's dead body to say that that's the person he hit. Instead of using the body of a police officer,

which seems like would have been a little bit more effective. And he goes back to California, and now he's in crazy mode. He's wearing a big black duster. He's got the crazy sunglasses on. Dude, I got to stop you here. Did you ever watch Renegade on USA? Renegade. Yeah.

It was like a bounty hunter show. He was like, it was basically dog the bounty hunter, but fictionalized and, uh, okay. Like 10 years earlier. But it reminds me so much of this TV show,

like the duster and like he's all, you know, the desert. This is all what the show is about. So no. I like this little, I'm guessing David Tui had something to do with Renegade too. But yeah.

Anyway, okay. Continue. No, yeah, it's fine. Um, So he, yeah, so they go into, he goes back to California.

He first he calls out Ron Silver and gets him to, like, admit what he was doing so he can, like, have it on tape. When he meets up with his boss again, Ron Silver, and he says, hey, Zane, not looking so good. Best line of the movie, Zane says, actually, I look like a can of smashed assholes. And that's when I'm like, what is this movie trying to do? What are we doing here? Is this a comedy? Is it, are we to take this seriously? Like, what the fuck is this movie?

Yeah, like that was one of those things where I remember when you first announced that we were going to be covering this movie on Twitter months ago. Somebody, that was the thing that everybody kept saying. They're like, oh, yeah, can't it smash assholes? And I'm like, yeah, is that the body you want to pull out of this car wreck? Like, that's what you're trying to say? saying, you're just like, oh, a can of mashed assholes. Like, so, so what?

That means nothing. It's absolutely nothing. I guarantee you that Charlie Sheen improved that line, and they were like, oh, Charlie, oh, fuck, I think gold, cut, wrap, print, save, like, this is just done. We nailed it. Everybody go home, we'll pick back up tomorrow. Do you think he thought, you think he thought, ah, in 20 years, two guys during a pandemic, are going to be doing a review of this,

and that's what they're going to talk about. Yeah, I hope so. I sure should hope so, man. But, okay, so, yeah, his boss, he kind of admits, like, I'm not who you think I am, but you don't want to dig deeper. Like, this is going to be the end of you, brother. And he kind of does the evil boss thing

and tells Zane everything, you know, like, this is what we're doing here. And Zane is kind of like, I think I know what you're doing, but I'm not quite sure yet. Tell me. And he's threatening him with a fake gun. And then we find out that he pulled a candid camera. It's like, there's a camera. There's a camera. There's a camera. It's just one camera. But yes, he did record his boss telling him all this. So now Zane's got the proof, silent invasion occurring. Yes, which I have questions.

Okay. Because I am not sure what their place. So are they trying to terraform the planet? Is that what's happening? Yep. Yep. Okay. Honestly,

I think it's that simple. And I think what they're doing is, you know, we've got a lot of green saying global warming's real. Like this, you know, it's gradual. And they're accelerating it. Yes. And they're accelerating it to the point where humans won't be able to live there anymore and they can take over the planet. So I think that's why they're, they have these terraforming things probably all over the planet and it is it's it's underground it's insidious and that's kind of what global warming is in real

life you know it's gradual until the point where we can't reverse it so i think there is some good subtext going on here with how they sure they handled it um especially towards the end but we'll get to that but um yes i believe you know in the simplest of terms the plan is that these aliens are disguising themselves in prominent places to gain influence and also to terraform the planet and take it over. Yeah. Yeah.

So, yeah, so he meets up with Kiki again, who Kiki saw. So at one point, the two guys that were in suits, go to Charlie Sheen's place. They dropped this little steampunk-style looking ball. Hellraiser box, yeah. Hell razor box. That's what it reminded me of in a way.

Yeah, that's fair. And then it opens us up, swallows everything in his apartment, and that's like, you know, gets rid of all its evidence. So him and Kiki, you're like, what are we going to do? And it's like, all right, we got to go to this satellite that's elsewhere that we're going to. I couldn't tell what his exact purpose was there. I guess he was trying to broadcast what was happening. Basically, that tape that he had of his boss explaining the entire plan. And that's, this is weird too.

Like, does he really think this is the be all and all of evidence that this is going on? Is some of the movie, the movie does? The movie thinks that. The movie really does. I was pretty bored by that ending. I was like, yeah, guys, that's it. Yeah. We'll get to that.

Yeah. So, yeah, Zane's plan is to broadcast this across the world using all these satellites, kind of like he did in the beginning where he triangulated everything to go to one place. he wants to now send this message out to humanity that aliens are trying to silently take us over. So he kind of, you know, reconnects with his girlfriend. I feel so bad. What was her name? Shar.

Reconnects with her and she kind of believes him, kind of doesn't, and she follows him and Kiki to this satellite place. And they get there and boom, the goons are back. his boss is back, but how did they get there so quick and know what he was doing, Andrew? I don't know. I got nothing. And it was just one of those things, too, where, like, that starts to happen. Oh, wait, no, sorry. Ha-ha.

So they tease at first that Shar is an alien. And I got to say, for a half second, I was just like, oh, you know what? That would be a fun enough twist, I guess. Yeah, me too. But now, instead, it is kind of revealed, not fully yet, though, that he can. Kiki is an alien. Right, right. So basically...

And presumably tipped off Ron Silver and his goons as to where they were going. Yes. So Zane puts Kiki in control of pressing the red button, the Kintecher red button, to broadcast this message to the world. And Kiki doesn't do it. Instead, he opens the door for our goons and our boss, our big bad alien boss, and to come in and stop Zane from doing this. Right.

So, yeah, we get that. these inklings that Kiki's not who we think he is. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So Zane finds some tanks of liquid nitrogen. He freezes all the aliens. He gets his tape back. Am I missing anything before that? I don't think so.

No. Okay. Oh, there's some nitrous nitroglycerin or whatever. Nitrous oxygen. What is it? The free, like something that was like, I feel like super popular in the 90s. It's like this. They do it in, what's it called?

Oh, shoot. Why can't I remember the name of it? I have no idea what you're trying to say. Demolition, ma'am. Oh, yes. It freezes you instantly. That movie was awesome. Oh, man.

Liquid nitrogen. Liquid nitrogen, thank you. Like something, I feel like that was something that was like popular in the nighties and action movies. Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, he uses liquid nitrogen to freeze around silver to get the tape back. and then cuts his hand off to get it. And eventually, like, and then they destroy the whole satellite because of the ball that was in Rod Silver's hand.

The ball, the day, what do they call that, DASS Machina or whatever? Dasex Machina, yeah, pretty much. Like, it's just, so all that happens, everybody's destroyed. And then they, like, they barely get off of, like, the satellite that's out there. And we see Kiki standing nearby, who managed to avoid all the destruction.

And this is where I got even, I've already confused, right? Like, because Kiki, we find out is a bad guy. Kiki could have stopped Charlie Sheen multiple times at the beginning of the movie. But instead is actively helping him. So, oh, but yes. So then he's helping Ron Silver. And then Charlie Sheen's yelling at him. He's like, this is what you wanted?

Like, if you guys wanted help, you could have, like, asked. Why didn't it have to be like this? Why couldn't you just come and ask for our help? Then you tell them. You go back and tell them that I know. That she knows. That others will know. It's not going to be easy.

Not anymore. And then I'm like, so wait, was Kiki trying to take down Ron Silver? That's what I thought too. He's like the reluctant stormtroopers. who realizes the hair ways and join the rebellion. But no, no, he, he's just, he's just an alien in disguise. And went about it a really ass-backwards way of, you know, monitoring Charlie Sheen when he could have stopped them from the beginning.

Dude, he could have, he could have thrown him out the window. He could have, at any point, he could have stopped from putting all of this into motion, this entire movie. He straight up tells him, he's like, oh, we're looking for a big signal or a small signal because this is a big one. It's just like he could have just not told him that there was a signal and not sent him to Mexico where he effectively learned

everything that was happening. He also, there's that weird look between him and Phil's two goons when they show up and he's watching them and I'm like, I guess you could say like, oh, he let them do it because he's, they're all aliens, but then I'm just like, what?

We don't get that. Yeah. Yeah. We don't get that. It looks like he's super suspicious of what's going on. Yeah. Yeah. And then it also raises the question of just like, are they replacing humans? Are they able to just like was Ron Silver's character? Like he's just been an alien for so long.

And I don't get me wrong. I know this is like really splitting hairs. But I'm just like he's able to get to the top level of this facility as an alien. Or did he replace the guy who was already in the top level of this facility? Did this kid really live with his grandmother next? store or did he replace the kit like or is he like sweeping just because he's just like I'm just an

alien so I'm going to sleep and help clean up things because I got nothing else to do like it was just this so many I was left with so many more questions than answers at the end of this movie in a way that felt lazy it was lazy well welcome to aliens 101 it's just

always more questions than answers but yeah so basically Kiki's knees go backwards, he runs off into the distance, and we don't know what happens after that. But let's see. We just cut to the next thing that happens is like radio breath. We're seeing that like global, like, whatever the aliens are doing is working because everything's like, it's like 120 degrees in California and like, you know, it's like still

90 degrees in New York, but it's like September or October or whatever. And so all this is happening. and then it's interrupted with footage of the footage. Like at some point they got to signal out, that footage is out there brought the silver saying with the planet. Entirely without context, entirely without like any idea of what these people are seeing. It just plays it and that's supposed to be the big like,

oh, like everybody knows now. Right. Like, no, what? What? No, because again, we have a million questions. You showed us a video of a dude saying, yeah you're kind of right oh yeah don't say any don't dig any deeper like what what context are we supposed to put this in as the right uh innocent viewer whose broadcast is interrupted it's just like how right

it i understand what the writer was going for this you know but everything's about to change the plan has been unveiled uh zane wins but again i would just be like huh that was a weird prank that someone put on the TV, you know, this is happening before, you know, the Max Headroom prank back in like the 90s, you know, that got broadcast across England and whatnot. Like, this shit happened. So I don't know what they were really trying to do, but, but the overall message is global warming's real, NRA is bad, apparently, to Charlie Sheen, because he got a gun really easily. And like you mentioned, that was one of the many comments in this movie that I'm like, Right, right.

You have a clear stance on the NRA. NRA, good sir. But, yep, that's it. That's the movie. We can only hope that Zane convinced the world of this alien invasion, and they stop it. But, Andrew, they didn't stop it because I don't know if you knew, but there was a sequel, The Arrival 2. I saw that, yep. Came out in 1998, starring Patrick Muldoon from Starship Troopers fame.

Love it. Love me. Oh, my God. That was a big year for him. It was. I watched the trailer. Holy shit. Next level sci-fi original right there.

Hey, a fun little connector here, too, because you've been on my podcast plenty of times. Predominantly for, like, we've done some regular episodes, but also you've come on to do some shock topper episodes. Yep. Right? And one time, we watched a little movie called Night of the Demon. Right? So the director of Arrival 2 is a man named Kevin S. Tenney, who also directed Night of the Demons.

You're welcome. It means nothing in the grand scheme of the universe, but I just thought that was a fun little connection there. That's awesome. So I could only assume that Arrival 2 is some Oscar-worthy stuff going on. Oh, big time. He also directed movies like Pinocchio's Revenge, Demolition University. Like he, yeah. If you were going to say demolition man, that's a different story. But come on.

It is. No, demolition university. And then witchboard and witchboard to the devil's doorway. There's just a lot of, and people, I think I've even said that he directed a movie called Bigfoot at one point. We don't have to get into it. That was one of the last movie to be directed. but y'all if you haven't seen night of the demons do yourself a favor question mark

and watch that movie it's real bad I concur oh yeah all right we made it through oh Jesus Christ our poor listeners I know final thoughts on the arrival I really I just it was a real

bummer to watch I'm not gonna lie and again because of people like almost active like immediately the response when you put this out on Twitter was people saying arrival sucks the arrival is much better that's such a fun movie and maybe it's like nostalgia for people maybe it's just like i don't know and like at this point in my life and where we're at the world i'm like yo if you can get enjoyment out of something fuck everybody else yep enjoy that thing that you enjoy that you enjoy and stay and don't listen to a word I just said that's awesome enjoy it have fun there's probably people that watch this movie like once or twice a year and that's great if you're enjoying

yourself awesome I did not I totally understand it well hey this is going to be my new tradition I'm going to watch this every year um there you go I thought it was I thought it was fun goofy unhinged uh what else did I write here good commentary on global warming and that we don't serve our planet. And I agree with that fullheartedly. So I'm giving it two out of five smashed assholes. There you go. I will say like, you know what?

I've watched plenty of bad movies that have nothing to say. So at the very least, this was talking about global warming at a time when that was like just becoming like, you know, something to that when we should have really been talking about. Yeah. So good on them for that, you know, like that. And again, got some heavy. hitters in that cast. It's a cast full of workhorses, like people that they are not coming to fuck around. But what I, they even, they make a note of this that this movie came out and are right

around when they started marketing Independence Day. So I mean, talk about stealing your thunder. You've got this kind of, you know, not, you know, a huge budget movie, although it was pretty big, like you said, for what it turned out. $25 million is a lot in 1996. Yeah, not at all. I can't imagine how much Independence Day's budget was. But look, I mean, those, I remember when the Independence Day marketing came out, and I was just like, like, yeah, down.

So, again, that might have had something to do with this movie performing poorly, but there are many variables to why this movie did not do as well. Yeah. As we had hope. Let's move on to brighter pastures, Andrew, and talk about 2016's arrival. This is the day they arrived. The object touched down 40 minutes ago. Mama, what's going to happen?

I don't know. Dr. Banks, you're at the top of everyone's list when it comes to translations. Do you hear any words? Is that? Yes. Am I the only one having trouble saying aliens? To where they look like. You'll see soon enough.

They need to see me. Dr. Banks? Now that's a proper introduction. War objects have landed around the world. It's their language. Got 21 hours. The form based on global war. They're not our enemy.

We need to talk to them. It's more complicated. How is it more complicated? Are you dreaming in their language? What does this say? We're weapon. So how do we clarify their intentions? I go back in.

What is she doing? You are committing an act of treason. You trust me. May I read the synopsis? Please. A linguist works with the military to communicate with alien life forms after 12 mysterious spacecraft appear around the world. Very straightforward. Denny Villanueva.

I'm sure I'm pronouncing his last name incorrectly, but this is like... Yeah, I'm not sure. Dude has just got like hit after hit for the last like three, four movies he's made. depending on who you ask but we've got cicario i believe um it was him um we've got this we've got blade runner 2049 and now we've got yeah yeah i love that movie love love loved it oh man right i'm gonna i'm gonna i'm gonna out myself right now and i intend to change this soon i haven't seen it yet because i haven't seen the original blade runner that's fair i dude i'd never seen blade runner until about a month ago when my girlfriend introduced it to me.

And, uh, oh yeah, go watch it. Go watch it. Nice. I will. 2049. 2049, dude, I was bawling my eyes out. I'll leave it.

Oh, nice. I'm a sensitive guy to begin with as my listeners very well know. But, uh, the fact that this director made that does not surprise me in the least. He just has a complete grasp on emotion and like, yeah, man. Profound. Profoundity. Is that a word?

I don't know. Sure. Sure. Yeah, we'll see. Yeah. Oh, he did, he's doing the new Dune movie, I see. Right, yes. Cool, cool. Okay. Yeah, man, which looks pretty neat, like I gotta say. And I'm never, that's another one. I like out myself again.

I think last year I tried to watch the 80s tune and I was, I was, I got stoned. I was like, it was like a day off. I was like, I'm just going to have a good time, watch this movie that everybody always says crazy. I made it like 35 minutes in and did, I think I called Sleepy, or I might have just like turned it off and it was like I'm going to do something else. And I've never been able to get into those books because I've heard they're like, like they're pretty dense. Yeah.

But I just, yeah, like so the new one. And you know, it looks like it might be have some more like action elements to it. Maybe I'll like, you know, people will get rightfully mad that it's just like, well, that's not what. I don't know. I don't know enough. It looked good, man. And hey, Aquaman's in it.

That's all I really come about. Yeah. Yo, speaking of a stacked cast. That thing is insane. Oof, I know. I know. I'm so happy all these movies got made before the pandemic, because now we have so much to be doing to, man.

Even though, I mean, productions, there's plenty of things getting made right now. I will say, like, they are really putting money over health right now, which, like, I guess, do what you're going to do. Yeah, like, but anyway, we're not here to talk about that. Yeah. Yeah. Now, based off a book, have you read?

the book? It's a short story by Ted Chang. And I actually read it for the first time last night. Oh, nice. Yeah, I'd been hounded to read it for ever since the movie came out. And I just never did. But I read it last night after watching the movie. Maybe I should have done the opposite. Beautiful. It's like 40 pages maybe. Okay. But and I was, you know, this is what I hate when you see a movie and then read the book. You've just got the actors in your mind. You've got what the director's vision. was in your mind when you should be separating it completely. So is it different? Is it like a different kind of a take or is it relatively the same? It's relatively the same. There is.

Yeah, yeah. There, I would definitely suggest reading it. It's, you know, same premise and everything, obviously. Right. But yeah, there's some cool stuff in between that the movie doesn't touch on and vice versa. Okay. But yeah, so based on the short story and, oh, let's talk about the cast. we've got Amy Adams.

Oh, yeah. We've got Amy Adams, Forrest Whitaker, Jeremy Renner. Okay. Michael Stoolbarg, baby. Who's that? Which one's that? Michael Stulbarg.

He's the CIA agent. Poor man's Joaquin Phoenix. I think he looks like walking Phoenix. Am I wrong? No, no, I know you're not because I actually, back in 2008 or 2009, I saw a production of Hamlet in Central Park. It was a public theater thing.

It was like one of those lucky times where I was able to get like those spring tickets for that. And he was the lead. He played Hamlet. And he was much, he was much thinner then, not that it matters. But I remember thinking at the time like,

man, this guy looks like Joaquin Phoenix and not putting that together until later. Like I eventually saw him on a, he was on Boardwalk Empire. He was a big part of that show. And he kind of like blew up much more significantly after that. Okay. But he, yeah,

I would agree. He looks very much like Walking Phoenix. And he is a beast. Like, I love Michael Stoobart. He's somebody who, if you get a chance, like, I guarantee you, you probably already see a movie that he's been in where he shows up just kind of like owns and then leaves. But he's, I was super, I kind of forgot that he was in that movie. And then when I saw, when I was watching it last night, I was like, oh, I literally yelled

stoolbar Oh, that's good to know. That's good, yeah. Yeah. I saw that production of Hamlet as well, dude. That thing blew me. Oh, really? Yeah, yeah.

Talk about changing the ending to something. We won't get into it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right. Yeah. All right. Well, let's get to the plot. So we've got Amy Adams, Luis. She is a linguistics,

extraordinaire, I guess. Yeah, teacher, expert, whatever you want to say. Yep, yep. And we start with what we perceive as flashbacks of her and her daughter. And she's giving her daughter messages of, you know, memory is a strange thing. You know, we're all bound by time and in the order of time and whatnot. And yeah, we see that right in the beginning here as we get these flashbacks that her daughter is unfortunately diagnosed with a very rare disease. And, and presumably passes away at some point, and then boom, we're put into the present time of when this movie starts. So, yeah, this is interesting. She goes into class at her college to teach her class, and right away, something's up. You know, everyone's phones start dingin all at the same time, so that's never a good thing. Clearly, something's going on.

There's either an active shooter on campus or a natural disaster is about to happen. Something, something's going on. And we learn that something or some things have landed on the planet. So yeah, boom. We don't waste much time getting into what's going to happen. No, you really don't. I mean, the movie itself, I mean, it's so wonderfully constructed. First of all, it's a little less than two hours.

And it makes such good use of that time. There's very little fat. Everything is leading us towards the end game. and it's something where I almost wish, because there's a big twist in this movie. We'll get to. Yeah, and I can only kind of remember what it was like watching it the first time

without knowing the twist. But watching it the second time, it's almost like experiencing a completely different film. And this is probably like maybe the third or fourth, maybe even fifth time I've seen it because I saw it twice in theaters. I saw it originally, and then a friend of mine,

was going to like a sag screening where I actually got to, there was a talk back with Amy Adams afterwards, and I got to ask her question. Like it was, so it's, I, I, I absolutely love this movie. And there's little things that you pick up on each time that you don't necessarily pick on up on before. And because, of course, it's like six cents or anything, you're now looking for, because it's a good movie,

there are clues to the ending. If anything, they're telling you. you'd be ending throughout the movie. Absolutely. Oh, it's just so well structured. It's wonderful, man. Yeah, it's well structured. It's incredibly shocked.

It's when they're doing the first, like, so she gets picked up by the government to go because they're contacting these aliens and they don't know how to talk to them. And she helped them translate some Farsi a couple years before. And she still has classified, high classified clearance or whatever.

so they ask her to and at first they don't like she tells them that she needs to go there and they're like no we're going to use somebody else and when she finds out who it is she asked them like this interpretation question i i wish i could remember specifically what it was right now yeah it was like a certain word and what is something mean in sanscript um and uh it was basically the guy like the guy who answered for them had a more violent answer by right correctly. Right. So she's brought in

and the first time that they're flown over in the helicopter and they're looking at the ship and the first time we see it up close is the most beautiful shots. I have that ring here.

Yeah, it's just you get this wide landscape. It's in Montana, I believe, is where they are. I think so. I think so. So you see the first craft in like in the shot

and it's this mist is rolling over and it's just so... Gorgeous. When I first saw this in theaters, that was the moment where I was like, this is unlike any alien movie I have ever seen.

Yeah. This is art. This is high art at its... Yes. And, well, let's say... So, Forrest Whitaker plays the Colonel who hires her. Yes, one question I do have.

Okay. Neither criticism nor I can say it was just something. What's going on with his accent? I don't know. That's one of the people have. Yeah. I was just like, is he from Boston? Is he from like, it's so weird. Yeah, and I'm just like, maybe it's a Montana accent that I just have never like, you know, I don't think I've ever been to Montana. So maybe I just didn't recognize it. But I thought it was so strange. It was weird. But that's like a minor grape.

A minor. In this movie, in my opinion, has minor, minor, minor, if any. We'll get to that. For real. But, well, okay, so we have the craft in Montana, but we should mention we learned that there's 12 of these craft. Yes, yes. Throughout the world, we don't know why, why they are, where they are, what's in them, what purpose they're there for. So that's what we're trying to figure out. And that's why they hire this linguistics communication person is, let's not immediately

assume they are going to destroy us, but that is the military's job to protect us. So yeah, let's figure the shit out. And, well, and I will say, I was happy that, like, listen, we don't have to get into current events too much, but one of the things that is, like, one of the things that's wonderful about this movie is it's very hopeful. And one of the things that's terrible about this movie is that now we are, we live in such a world where we have now been proven, it's been shown how we as a country would react in a situation like this, in a situation where there is a possible world-bending scenario or a, like, whatever. Obviously, what's going on right now is

not as serious as if, well, giant spacecraft landed and started hovering over certain areas. But it's not hard to think that based on how we are reacting to things currently, that there are people that would just assume that these things aren't real. There are people that would try to fly planes into them. There are people, there would be way more, like, we would have to stop attacks on these way more regularly, like just from, like, Joe Schmo in the middle of nowhere who doesn't want to believe. Like it's just, there's so much of a more hostile reaction. And it's not like we don't get out with it to that in this movie.

But the actual, unfortunately, how we are in real life would have been much more, like, things would have gone much more poorly than they do in this movie. That's a good point. Bottom line. Yeah, yeah. The movie is very timely, which is interesting, too, because the short story was written long before the movie came out. And also, the movie, the movie,

came out. I want to say within weeks, maybe a month or so of the most, you know, contentious election in like American history. Yeah, a very interesting side for this movie to come out. Okay, so 12 of these objects are all over the world. People start panicking, like you mentioned, a little bit. And this is interesting. They get the press secretary on the news, say, regardless, we have protocol for situations like this. And I'm like, wait, hold on. What? What? So I go and I'm like, is this just in the fictitious world that this writer created? And no. And I should have known this as a UFO guy. And there have been rumblings of it. But yeah, supposedly there is military briefings from the 1950s

outlining potential military responses to alien contact. It's called the seven phases to contact. You know, it's rumor, it's speculation. But yeah, it's interesting to think, yes, our governments do have somewhat protocol for things like this. But we know the minute it actually happens that that's going to be thrown out the window. As we see in a pandemic, we were told we had protocol for the pandemic. And clearly we did not. So yeah, yeah, very interesting dichotomy there. Yeah.

And to see how things react, like it starts what I love is like, you know, we see it's a very like clean operation. And we see that they are like following protocol and things like that. and communicating with other countries where this is happening. And I love that it like kind of starts that way and then things start to dovetail out of control once we're actually getting information from these people. Like she starts doing her job. And ironically enough, that's when things start to go wrong in their eyes.

Yeah, that's a good point. Well, okay, so let's get to into what she's doing and with who. So we have a astrophysicist who's played by Jeremy Renner. His character name is Ian. and he's being brought on because, yeah, we need someone there who can theoretically tell us possibly how they got here and what we might be dealing with in terms of the physical craft they're in and stuff like that. So I thought it was really interesting. I think the military did a good job of bringing in someone who needs to decipher how to communicate and someone who might decide how these things got here and stuff like that. So, right.

Yeah, what did you think of Jeremy Renner's character when you first, when he first came out? I liked him. And I like that, like, I mean, he's instantly, it was honestly one of those things where I was like, you know, Sharon Renner is a good actor. He's not bad, yeah. No, yeah, like, he is somebody who I think does what needs to be done for this role. Is it a little bit more of a straightforward role? Absolutely.

But what I like is he's got, like, this kind of heart and humanity. to him that it make him like appealing as a character like you know what i mean like he is somebody who you understand why they would get together why he's like a good choice for this and you understand why um i mean i love the idea that they're bringing in like a a scientist as well but yeah no i really enjoyed him and i enjoyed that character especially because it's like it's second fiddle And that's like, that's something for somebody who's an established actor to take a role like that. Like, you know, men aren't always like, that is not that not all men or whatever bullshit. But it's like, obviously I don't be that.

But it's just like he was an established start. He took on this role even though it's like it's a support system. It's a support role. Yeah. I think that's a testament to, he probably was like, this is a good script. Yeah, man. And it's something we're like, you know, we're never really hearing his side of it as far. when things get more into detail about their life together or their life after this,

we don't ever really get his side of things. It's all about her, but he took it on anyway. So it's just night, like, yeah, I really, I thought, like, I just thought it really worked. And he's got some of the last lines in the movie. And it's something, it's this speech that could almost, in the hands of a lesser actor, would have come across as very hokey. Yeah. And it wasn't.

So, yeah, I really enjoyed Jeremy Ryder in this movie. liked I liked the role that he played, not just like in a literal sense, but like the role that his character played in that movie and how it laid out. And he's much more important than we think. But we'll get to that as it unravels.

But let's see. Oh, this was another interesting thing. So, okay, so now we need these two to go to the craft and try to communicate with whatever's in the craft. But what I thought was interesting, is they show like someone in like either a containment thing or a body bag. I can't tell which, but they ask what happened to the sky. And the, the army doctor says, look, this is, some people

just cannot process this. And that hit me so hard, man, because I'm like, yeah, what if you were hired to be the first to ever make contact with aliens, like face to face, not through radio waves, as Zane would do, but like literally go up into a craft and talk to these things. And the human mind, I could imagine with a lot of people, just simply could not do that. Right. Yeah. So that really puts it into like, you know, perspective of how weighty this actually is. Yeah.

And it's something too where you, it's a bit of foreshadowing as well to see some of the problems that they're going to face with other people. So it's, I was, I was, I liked that, like that nice little tease. And we see elements of her, like, you know, things don't go great the first time they go up there. They see these things, these, when we see these aliens for the first time, and you only kind of get a clutch of them at first. And I love their design too. Like, I love, like, I hate giving credit to HP Lovecraft. I know he did great work, but he also called his cat the N-word.

Super racist. I know. Horrible racist. Like a horrible. racist. And it's always funny when I see people try to I read an article the other day that were trying to excuse his racism. Like he was nice to some people and it's like no.

Like I'm sorry. Yeah, exactly. Like he like he like did he cause physical harm to other people? Not that we know of. Did he make his racism part of his identity and are most brown people in his books described as swarthy and gross? Yes. So it's I I whatever. However

his big thing was that in his opinion, aliens aren't, weren't alien enough. Even in the early 1900s, the stories that were told, they're always like bipedal, and they look like they're humanoid. So I'd love to see the aliens in this movie be like, it's something that we wouldn't be able to wrap our heads around. I don't know what I would do if I saw something like that in real life. I don't even understand how does it breathe?

How does it move? How do they communicate? It's just, it's something where it's not. not an easy, it's not an easy answer, whereas like in the arrival, you know, it's like, who their knees been back. Even that's imaginative. Usually we get just these humanoid figures or these little gray aliens with big heads and black eyes.

So, I mean, the arrival, at least they tried a little something different, but then arrival, like, boom, you're right. This is like, this is the epitome of the word alien. It's so foreign to us and so not human That wow It was and I'm sure I think I read somewhere They went through so many art concepts To create these aliens and what they would look like

Because the short story doesn't describe them that well So it really was put into a I mean they were definitely Heptaud in their way that like they have seven feet or legs or whatever However you want to define that but um other than that man I could I would love to see all the different concepts they came up with. But I think they're going to buy something truly unique in this one for sure. That's the other thing, dude. First seeing these things, it probably was not what they expected at all. Or if they expected anything, what would you expect when you're first? They didn't brief them, which I think is weird. They didn't like psychologically prepare these two

for what they were about to see. And maybe that's good. Maybe that's bad. I don't know. I think it is like it's something where it's almost like time is of the essence kind of a situation because there's a competition aspect of this as well where the countries you're trying to figure out and it exposes like something that's like a very real probable mind of thing where it's just like ooh some people like are trying to figure out things before other people right and trying to be the ones to get these answers so I I I understand like it's almost like they ease them in it's like all right every time that thing opens, you're going to go up there and talk to them and, like, try to communicate with them. The first time, we don't even see the full interaction.

Like, they see it, and then they're brought down to be, like, cleaned off or whatever. And she's, like, kind of jittery, and Jerry Rennard just continues. Close jokes. Like, I was like, that's pretty fantastic. That's what I would have done. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Oh, yeah.

So, yeah. I mean, okay, so now we've got, like, this kind of regiment set up where these two, are going to try to find out how can we communicate with this and figure out why they're here. That's the big question. Why are they here? What do they want? And that remains the way it is in the real world here. We had a secret Pentagon UFO program and their sole purpose was to figure out if these UFOs that our Navy are witnessing and our military are they a threat.

And of course to the right, they will always remain a potential threat because we don't know what they are. are who's in control of them. So I understand every side of this movie. I understand Forrest Whitaker as a military person. I understand her as a linguist. It makes perfect sense. And I think this movie just does it so brilliantly. Oh, okay.

So now she's trying to teach these aliens' words. The human interactions, like how we do think. So what did you think of this whole concept of like how she... did this. I like that like it brought us into that world a little bit. Something that I like, and you don't always have to do this, it's not an easy thing to do

without boring your audience, but they had simple enough explanations as to why she was doing the things that she got it did. And like, funny enough, we are kind of Boris Whitaker in that situation where he, she has to explain to him why she's doing, it needs to do things the way that she's doing and through that she's explaining it.

us as well. And we find out like, oh, like, you know, we find out about like what a linguist would be doing, like what she would be doing in this situation to try to communicate with these things. How you have to break down like, okay, I can't even like ask them a question unless they know, I know they know what a question is. Oh my God. Yeah. Like something I would never think about. Yeah. Like when she breaks down that one sentence, though, what is your purpose here or whatever? the ways that she breaks it down, I was like, it's smart, it's interesting, it's well explained.

Like there's so much of it where I was like, yeah, this is like, you know, this is what it's about. And it made the movie more interesting. And it helped it rest on something that felt tangible. And yeah, I loved all of that stuff. Like I thought it was so well done. And again, and then like the difference between an Amy Adams

and a Charlie Sheen, And, you know, maybe Charlie Sheen and I've actually never seen Platoon, so maybe in Platoon he makes a very believable soldier or something. Like, you know what? Like, the guy was famous for a reason. You don't have to get to that. But his character in The Arrival does not know, like, does not seem like he really knows what he's talking about when he talks about astronomy. Amy Adams in this movie, I believe every fucking word that she says. Oh, absolutely.

Like, she really, like it felt like she studied this stuff. Like, it just feels natural to her and how she's explaining. it. Right. And I remember reading, they had like several world-renowned linguists come in to, to, to, that's awesome. Yeah. So that, that right there. Yeah. And like this other idea, too, like you mentioned, this one sentence she breaks down. Like, what is your intentions here? Like, and she, she focuses on the word you're, like, we don't know, we don't want to know the individual alien why you're here. We want to as a race, why are you here? So that, right. Again, it's just so brilliantly done.

Everything you're doing there, I have to explain to a roomful of men whose first and last question is how can this be used against us? So you're going to have to give me more than that. Kangaroo. What is that? In 1770, Captain James Cook's ship ran a ground off the coast of Australia, and he led a party into the country, and they met the Aboriginal people. One of the sailors pointed at the animals that hop around

and put their babies in their pouch, and he asked what they were, and the Aborigines said, Kangaroo. And the point is? It wasn't until later that they learned that kangaroo means I don't understand. So, I need this so that we don't misinterpret things in there, otherwise this is going to take ten times as long. I can sell that for now,

but I need you to submit your vocabulary words before the next session. And remember what happened to the Aborigines? A more advanced race nearly wiped them out. That's a good story. Thanks. It's not true. But it proves my point. So we get these montages of like they're slowly learning how to communicate with these aliens who use a really interesting way of communicating.

And that's this like almost like squid ink because they have these technical like things that produces this ink that turns into a mist and makes these circles with all different splatters. So it's like, whoa. like this is interesting not how we would ever imagine communicating but um wow we get the concept of the um the zeper wharf hypothesis which is uh the language you speak determines how you think and we don't think about that we always think the words come first when in reality like how we describe something or whatnot determines our way of thinking of it like a color you know there's a billion different versions of yellow, but then when you say the word, then it, then it produces the image in your head. Oh, God.

This stuff goes so deep. It really does. And what I love to is like our first breaking moment is you start to see like, I love when they take off their suits for the first time because she's like, they have to see me. And she walks up to them and like she does it and they're like, should we abort and they're like, no, keep going. And then Jeremy Redder does it. And the guys are like, permission to abort. Like, can we leave, please? like and they're just like no stay um but to see that guy like the guy who gives them their like

badges and who introduces introduces them first we start to see his slow mental break with what's going on and how he feels scared and then like we have our first bit of um action quote unquote and this is not an action movie by any stretch of the imagination oh no this is a slow burn just not yeah yep um but he like he he does this, he takes it upon himself after talking to his wife, like you see,

or not himself, there's several of them, these soldiers that are just like, we're going to blow this thing up because it's not good. Like, they're scared of it because they don't understand it. And it's because there's also,

they, like she interprets the word weapon at first. Yes. Because, like, language is tricky through these things. So he, like, to see that happen and to see the aftermath of that,

it's something. And then you start, to see all the country like the weapon thing gets out and other countries start shutting down and like not talking to each other just on this one word that they're not even 100% sure of yet right it's just i thought i thought like again that stuff is just so grounded and feels so real in this unrealistic situation exactly i just love it and and we also get to like not to go over too much, but the, um, I, we, when she first analyzes the way they're communicating with her, these circular squid ink things, she starts to have flashes of her daughter. Yes, yes, please. Yeah,

touch on that. Yeah. And it's, what's so wonderful about it is if you're watching it, and this is the way the movie plays out, when you're watching it initially, um, just to kind of get into the big twist here is when you're watching it initially, you're thinking like, oh, she's having flashed. of this daughter of hers that died of this awful deceit. But that's not the case. She's seeing because when she learns this language, she gains the ability to see the future. So the first time she's really, and not even like they say see the future, but I feel like it's so much deeper than that, she's experiencing time all at once, essentially.

Yeah. And that's the way their language plays out. So when she sees this, the first time she's experiencing this language, and really digging and doing through it, we see those powers and those gifts start to manifest. But when you first watch the movie, you think that she's just having visions of her daughter who already passed. But in actuality, yeah, when you're rewatching it, you're like, holy shit, the first time she looks at that language, the power starts to see into the future.

And I just think it's so, it's so well made. It's so subtly done in that aspect. But the way they handle that twist and the way that it plays out. Like, it's, they, they leave just enough red crumbs for you to where you don't like, I, like, I, like, when the little, when the daughter, they have a flash, or a flash forward of the daughter asking the question about the zero sum game. And she's, and she's like, ask your father, he's a scientist. I can't remember if that was, I'm having a heart, because Joy was telling me that that wasn't the time when I first realized it because I talked, like we talked about it before. but I don't know yeah I just I love the way that that

plays out and there's some there's certain times where I think at a certain point you're like oh duh this is it but now like yeah I just I thought it's just a beautifully done twist and it's incredibly impactful to the story as a whole but then it opens up some crazy questions in my mind

oh yeah yeah and we start dealing with you end up where we all do when time plays a big part in a movie Right. You're going to have endless debate on it. And that's completely understandable. Well, yeah, you know, bringing it back to the sort of circular nature of their language, it is. It's like it's just a concept that we create here on earth, which is time and that it is malleable.

And, you know, she even brings up as a linguistics person, you know, nonlinear orthography, which is language has no four words or backwards. That's why she named her daughter eventually as a paladrome. Hannah, same backwards and forwards. And it's just the way they deal with all these things. It really is. It really is, man. Let's rein it in a little in terms of, I guess, how the plot is playing.

Sure. So they, like you said, we get the word weapon from them. And other countries start freaking out. And everyone's like, oh, God, like, what does this mean? And this is when, you know, these rogue military guys decide, we're going to blow up the ship here in Montana. and we get Ian and Luis go into the craft, not when they're supposed to,

to talk to the aliens. Right. And the bomb has been set in the craft by these rogue military guys. And what happens? The aliens literally forcefully get Luis and Ian out of the direction of the explosion and presumably save their lives. But boom, now we have a whole other level to this. We have now provoked an act of war on these aliens.

that we still don't know why they're here. And what I love to is they don't leave. They just raise like a mile higher. Oh, my talk about a flex, dude. Yes, yeah. And Forrest Whitaker's got that great line of he's just like, why does this be a worse? Like this. It's such a like, and it's true.

And it's also almost a way of them going like, bro, we're not trying to hurt you guys. Yeah, yeah. We're trying to communicate. We're trying. Yep. And you're right. It was maybe, I don't know, maybe 100 feet off the ground originally. And now it's like a mile and a half up.

So it is. It's like the most mentally psychological warfare at its finest. Like, well, nice try, but we're not done yet. We still have more to communicate to you in which they do. So I just, I, oh, here's another moment I really liked. I love when Luis has this really intimate conversation with Ian while the craft is just floating in the background. And it's just like it's the dichotomy of humans interacting while an alien craft is present attempting communication. And then we have these two humans communicating about like, oh, I'm not so good with women, blah, blah, blah.

And it's just, I love this moment. You've just got a UFO flowing in the background. and these two are having the most, like, human conversation that turns out to be something much more powerful than just like a... Yeah, dude. Like flirtation or whatnot. But I loved that. But this is when we get all the countries who have been in really good communication

and trying to decipher each craft in each region and what it's doing, what they've discovered, everyone starts to disconnect and go offline and stop talking. Right. Yeah, and it's because China and Russia, should do it first, I guess, in the U.S. is just like, well, we gotta, we gotta do it now. Like, it's, it becomes this, like,

pissing contest in this very serious situation. Yeah. And it's, yeah, it just bombs me out. Like, that was the moment in the film where I'm like, this is how this would play out in real life. And it fucking depresses the hell out of me. Yeah, I literally, I turned to joy. I was just like, and this is fictional.

Like, it's not a real thing. And I was just like, this fucking sucks. Like, I just, Like, I was, I get so enthralled when I watched this movie that it feels like that stuff is happening. God. Okay. So, all the countries stop communicating with one another. Clearly, China is taking a very aggressive stance.

And if they do not figure out why these things are here, they're going to assume it's not good and they're going to attack. So this is scary, man. Now we have, might have a war on our hands. and America and more specifically this location in Montana, they want to evacuate the entire operation. And Luis is like, no, we have to go back and deal with this. Like we have to continue the work we've done so much on with this before that happens. So she kind of goes rogue herself.

She goes out to the craft and the craft sends down a pod to get her because it's like a mile up now. Right. Right. Well, and this is the moment where I first really thought about this is, and this is always the tough, there's no right answer to this. Let me say that right away. But this is like a Dr. Manhattan kind of question, like a predetermination type thing, is she has visions of herself going out and a pod coming down and picking up and then herself in the ship. So she envisions those things happening. So because she has those visions, she goes out so that pod can pick her up. So the question is, like, did she have a choice? She does this because she did it already. And that starts to get into that plays a little bit with the end game too,

which we'll get into a little bit later, like in a minute. But yeah, like that was the first moment where I was like, huh, like she must have already done it or else she wouldn't be having those visions. Or did she? Does she have a choice? She's having visions of the future already. So it's like, ah, that's again. This is where it's like there's so much left to interpretation, which is what language is all about.

So presumably, let's say she did get up there. She's actually beyond the glass or beyond the separation that has been there this time. And she is in there with who we've deemed Abbott and Costello, according to Jeremy's character, which I love. Except just Abbott. Just Abbott. Costello was killed in the explosion. Right. Costello is in death process, is what the...

Yeah. So now, man, we're getting subtitles from our heptopods. So we're at next level communication now. She is directly talking to them without, you know, converting anything or the symbols, like, ah, it's gorgeous. Like, she's having a full-on conversation with... in peptopod. And let's get, let's just, let's dive in.

Because this is the moment where we start to get some big reveals. What is the way to communicate to her? That she has, so they communicate that we're here to help. They were there to help the humans because in 3,000 years, humans are going to help them. And they say to her that they're like, she has this gift to see the future because of her ability to read the language. It's like once you're able to read it. And I think it's implied. this way anyway, is that once you're able to read the language, you basically start seeing

time differently. So once she realizes that, if she has these flashes of this daughter, she's like, who is this girl? Like, who is this daughter that I keep having flashes of? And that's when they tell her she can see the future. So it's the daughter she hasn't had yet. And it's just heartbreaking. And especially rewatching those scenes, too, like I said, because there's some moments where

you're like any time when you're rewatching the movie and you see one of these flash forwards happen you realize like she knows yeah she knows the entire time she has the daughter that this girl is not going to live past like 14 15 years old right and it's and to make that like to still go through that and that's where I start to get so so anyway so she says that she can see the future they tell her she can see the future and she sent back down and she tries to communicate with China. She takes the CIA guy's special cell phone that he's had, which I want one of those things, man.

The general of China's arm on speed dial. Yeah, well, it's not even just speed dial either. It's that she has a vision of the future. And again, we get into the predetermination things, where she's at this party when everything has worked out. Right. And when she's at this party, the general, the general from China approaches her and says like it's 18 months later and that he knew that he needed to,

the only reason he came there was to see her. And she's, he gives her his cell phone number, his phone number to his private phone. Right. Because he tells her, you called my phone. She's like, I don't have your number. If he shows it to her, he's like, now you do. And he's like, you also told me my wife's dying words. And he tells her the words 18 months in the future because of that,

she's able to tell him that over the phone when this happens even though they're like under threat of death and treason that all this stuff on the military and then so she calls china and then she she says this dude's words to him and then the next thing you know it cuts to a moment and at this moment like I'm even getting choked up thinking about it right now um you start to see these TV screens pop up and you find out that everything like things have worked like everybody's decided to work together now yeah like they're going to start sharing information they're going to start communicating and because of that the aliens leave like and what's beautiful about that is it's not even like the aliens were like there is a pressing issue right now it's like no it's almost like a more advanced bill and ted it's just like let's see you guys start and you guys start working together now the future will be a better place and it's like it's so simple but it's so effective yeah um and you find out that jeremy renner was her daughter is her daughter's father father in the future

and that he left because he finds out from her that he like that she knew this was going to happen. Yeah, would die. Yeah. And decided to have the daughter anyway.

And I will say like I said, you have these great moments where Jeremy Renner says like, you know what? I thought the most surprising thing about being here with aliens, but it was meeting you. And like he I know, dude, and that's just like fucking, again, and the hands of a lesser actor, that would have sounded real corny. Exactly. He does it real well.

And then you have this moment where you find out like you see to the moment like he asked her, do you want to make a baby? And she says yes. And I love that moment. And I think it's beautiful and that's like where the movie ends, kind of like where it begins. Because we see that house in the beginning. And I will say, now this is like where we'll get a little heavy predetermination-wise is did she, she have a choice in that moment? That's the question.

I think that's what really, that's one of the biggest questions with all these time, sort of ideas of time and concepts of time is like, what is determined, what is not, you know, if the general of the Chinese army,

General Shang, if he gave her his phone number in the future and then we go back and she remembers the number and calls and blah, blah, blah. Like, again, it's so, non-linear and circular, like their language, that it's like, what is choice, what is free will, what is predestine, but does it even matter, you know? Right.

Like, we could spend our entire lives questioning if destiny exists or not or fate. Yeah. When in reality, we're just living it. Right. And I mean, in this one, though, she's seeing visions of the future where she had that daughter. And it's almost like she has the daughter be cut. like it's just again like we can go on and on but it was the first time that it really hit that really hit me last night yeah um but yeah and i just love it's just got this very simple ending

where she's just like she says yes and and it's that's like that's kind of where it ends where she chooses to live this life anyway yeah um and it's just beautiful it's just and the the the soundtrack like joy brought up wonderful point like the soundtrack like it's so minimalist leading up and then it's just got these big swells of music towards the end that just really paint this full picture of just a gorgeous movie. It is, it is. I absolutely love it. The score was beautiful, like you said.

I don't know who the composer is, but just everything. You're right. The cinematography, beautiful, the acting spot on, the concepts, the questions, the, God, I cry every time I watch this because, like you said, it, it, it, it, will mean something different to everyone. And I remember seeing this in theaters. And I was with my girlfriend and she was just bawling her eyes out. And when we left, I said, well, oh, my God.

Well, that was so emotional and powerful. And she, I was like, is that what made you cry? And she was like, no, it just made me so sad. And I was like, I left the theater being like, what, I feel so happy and hopeful. I think it was beautiful. But again, I think that's what's awesome is everyone finds. small moments in this movie that is going to mean something special

to them. If you knew your child was going to die would you still have the child? And that's right, look, many parents have struggled with that choice, I'm sure, in their lives. And that is a big question,

you know? Like if you knew what was going to be tomorrow, how does it affect you today and how you live your life? And oh, God. And I would argue, I think it's the movie is, sad because it's so hopeful. You know what I mean? Like we don't live in that kind of world, unfortunately.

And at the time, unfortunately, like I would even argue that when the movie came out, it felt more within grasp. But I, like, since then, it's just gone further away from that kind of hopefulness

of what humanity is capable of. And like, don't get me wrong, it was humanity under extreme circumstances, but, you know, we're in pretty fucking extreme circumstances. right now and we're not doing great. I'd have to agree with that.

Yeah. Yeah. So it's something where like you watch it and you're just like, well, shit, I want like, you know, it's a movie. So of course things work out a little bit easier, but like it's just like a nice resolution like that would be wonderful. That'd be nice. Yeah, but as we learn, the older we get, life doesn't seem to wrap up that way. But I don't know.

What do you think, man? I'm giving this seven out of seven heptopods. I think this is a perfect. I think that's an accurate rating. I would agree. I would agree. I really like, you know, there's, there's, I, every time, every time I watch it, I have fewer complaints.

Yeah. Like, and not that I had complaints really to begin with. Like, this time, the most I had was, I was like, yeah, Forest Weather's Curves, that's kind of funny. That's it. And that is, that is small potatoes. Because I just think everything else about it, I agree, adds up to it, like, pretty much a perfect movie.

Like, I just love it. Well, I can only watch this, like, once every two years and because it's that powerful. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You got to let it lay for a while. You really do, unlike the arrival. Which we're, oh, two times a year, baby, from here on out. Easy.

Every six months. I need more kee-y-y-in-my life. Oh, man, this was a marathon. But, hey, brother, I appreciate you taking the time, not just to do this today, but to watch these two movies. It was my pleasure. All of it led me to, I was Amy Adams in the sense that I was like,

I know if I watch these movies, I get to talk to Ryan about them, so I'm going to watch them. This was all meant to happen. Exactly. Yeah, yeah. Well, Andrew, before we go, before we leave today, I have to ask,

what are you up to? Where can we find everything you're doing? Tell us all of the next coming up for Andrew Sanford. Let's see. If you are, again, I've been writing for Projiva.com, which is a wonderful website there's stuff on there that's much better than what i'm doing for

them um but just check that out p a j i b a b a i ba i i love that website um so it's a pleasure to be amongst a lot of really talented writers um i uh if you're like anybody i think it has to have like a certain kind of coverage but a lot of my screenplay stuff is on coverfly dot com so if there's some industry professionals that just happen to be listening right now go ahead check that out. Of course, I have the backlog of Half White Sound of Black Man. We haven't been back yet with the old episode today. You still listen to them, including plenty with you, some Shocktober ones.

And we're not going to do Shocktober as per usual this year, which is when I usually just throw out the purpose of my podcast and talk about horror movies because we're not doing the podcast proper. What I'm going to do instead, and Ryan, I'll just like officially invite you to do this now with me is I'm going to, one movie, one guest, and we're going to talk about it on Instagram Live, pretty much. Oh, cool. It's a little, like, 45 minutes to 55 minute segments. Talk to somebody about a movie that we just watched.

So I'll be hitting you up about that soon. But if you want to follow along with that, my name is because I didn't understand at the time how Instagram works when I first started. It's half white son of a black man, but there's underscores in between each word. but it's pretty easy to find me out of there. And yeah, so stay tuned for that. I was just like, man, I love me some horror movies. I'm not going to let this pandemic stop me from, like I might not be able to do the podcast right now,

but I'm still going to like talk to some friends and people I respect about horror movies. So be on the lookout for that. Awesome, man. Yeah. Hey, we need communication now more than ever. If Arrival has taught us anything. I know people out there, probably people listening, myself included, like it's so easy to feel very alone and trapped right now

and out of control of your life and what's going on. But just know that there's always someone out there to listen, as all of you have done with us today. God bless everyone listening to this. Yeah, for real. Yo, if you made it all the way to end to the end of this, like you like both of these movies or you like hearing us talk, or you're trying to make sure you have all your ducks in a row before you give a shit on Twitter or later.

So either way, either way, props to you. But this has been an epic arrival showdown. I hope everyone enjoyed. Andrew, stay safe, brother. I will talk to you soon. My pleasure, buddy. Once again for coming on Somewhere in the Skies,man. Thank you.

My love you. Somewhere in the Skies is part of the Somewhere Podcast universe. Please take a moment to rate, review, and subscribe on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. To learn more about all of our shows, visit the SPU.com. Today on the show, Andrew Sanford returns for another movie review. Here I am. I'm naked. I'm naked. I'm talking to you like you were real. Go to hell. That's right. We're talking about the Christopher Walk-in' 1989 movie adaptation of Communions.

You, you people, you're in. I'm telling you, you're in for one big surprise, one Very big surprise. This is somewhere in the skies with Brian Sprague. I got a lot of thoughts. I'm excited to dig in. Awesome. Well, we might as well just dig in. There's no better way than to just go headfirst into Communion.

Yeah, man. Yeah. So once again, I am joined by Andrew Sanford for another UFO-slash-alian movie review. We're going to be reviewing 1989's Communion. Andrew, before we get to... that. How's everything going? It's been about a month now of lockdown. So are you going crazy yet? Oh, a little bit. You got to look at the bright side. You know, I have become a king of the Morlocks while all this is going on, which was a hard fought battle. But I think once they realized that I just wanted to get them health care, everything was a smooth transition. That's all you got to do to gain loyalty.

That's true. Absolutely. Yeah, it's been going. I've just been trying to write as much as possible. I just finished, I did a spec script for one of my favorite TV shows, what we do in the Shadows, which has, which I'll give a plug to them, I guess, but that season, like, as of our recording this, their new season starts up like tomorrow night. So excited for that.

Always good to have, like, a nice little spec script in your back pocket, something short for people to read. All you screen are like, as soon to be screenwriters out there, apparently that's like the thing now is to have like a nice half-hour sitcom spec script because then it's not a lot for people to read. Most of the scripts that I have are between 90 and like 125 pages.

Yeah. Hey man, always have something in the back pocket. You might go in with the play and they might be like, hey, we don't want that, but do you have like, you know, a 30-minute television script or whatever, and you've got to be ready to just throw it on the table. Exactly, exactly. And always go to people for feedback.

I had sent it out to it. I felt good about the first draft of this to begin with, but then I sent it out for feedback, and then I honed it down, you know, gave it a nice little cleanup, and now, like, I have something that I can show to people that I'm pretty proud of. And if people out there feel like reading any of my stuff,

I actually think you can read some of the screenplays that I've submitted for things on a website called Coverfly. A lot of my stuff is listed as discoverable. So if you look up Andrew Sanford, you can see things I've submitted, including a horror comedy that's like just got me into the semifinals for something. I forgot to tell you about that. So it's like, yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's like, you know, it's always, I've just been trying to keep writing to keep

myself from going crazy. I wonder at the end of this, I shouldn't say the end. this COVID-19 thing is going to be our new normal. Right. Once this first wave of it passes and we're allowed to go back into society again, how many new books and screenplays and pitches are going to be out there, we might see a whole new creative renaissance. I mean, look at some of our greatest artists who came up with their masterpieces

during the Spanish flu, where the place. black plague. Like, it's crazy to think that such amazing stuff can come out of something so horrible. But, hey, that's life. Yeah. You even have, uh, just recently Kevin Smith talking about how he wrote COVID-19 into his new draft of the Morat's sequel. So, you know, the greatest art. I do wonder what the first, uh, you know, mainstream representation of this entire thing is going to be, whether a movie or a documentary. Nothing. Documentary would be fine.

I would like some nice, like, you know, or our, like, Chernobyl for, like, for our version of this, essentially. But I want movies and TV shows and books that take place almost exclusively outside. It's just people being able to go outside, hugging one another. Just going to the grocery store without having to work. a mask. That's what I want to see. Yeah. I'm with you, man. Well, hey, we need things to distract us now. And that definitely

happened with communion. So let's sort of paint the picture here. We've got 1989 drama horror film based on the book of the same name by Whitley Streber, who most of my audience either know personally or no of him. This was... Could you fill a film? me in a smidge, because I will say, I did like a little research, but I assumed that you would know this guy better than I do. So who is Whitley Streber? So he is a, he's mostly known for being a

horror novelist. I mean, he's written some really, you know, big horror novels that were turned into movies. The hunger, where like this dude's trapped in a love triangle with a vampire and now that is a movie. Yeah. right? That's a movie right there. But, um, yes. Well, it is. I think that if I remember correctly, there's one with David, it's got David Bowie. Yeah. So, I mean, dude, he's no slouch. I mean, this guy, right. Pretty much every novel that Whitley Streber was coming out with were being made into movies, even as recently as, um, the day after tomorrow, that big disaster movie.

Oh, based on his book, the day after tomorrow. Whoa. That's wild. Yeah. So, I mean, he, he has, he's got some street. credit for sure, but this is what's interesting is in when he wrote this book Communion, it was supposedly a true story.

So you have this guy writing these fantasy dark worlds of werewolves and vampires and then boom, he comes out with this novel saying, here's my new book, it's a true story. I said, you're like, what the hell is this? And I'm not kidding you, man,

communion, the book, it took The World by Storm. It became a New York Times best seller within, like, weeks of its publication. Really? The book I'm looking at right now, the cover is the most iconic image of an alien to date. And it just became such a staple in the UFO lore and history. So when... Not until 19...

When did the book come out? Was it close to 1989? Was it the 80s, 70s? Yeah, let me check. I'm going to say 80s. What do we got? 1987. So, I mean, the movie wasn't that far after, to be honest.

I wonder why they couldn't get a better production company to make this movie. What are you talking about? Not to, like, take shots. Oh, we'll get there. We'll get there. Oh, man, that's so crazy to me. It also seemed like it had such a small budget, even from things that I've read. And it only made like $2 million, which isn't like anything.

to slouch it in 1989, but it's like also not... 1989 was a huge year for movies, too, as well, though. So it's... That's a tough... Yeah, so, okay, so let's give some, um, some of the technical stuff here. Communion was written the screenplay by Whitley Streber, same guy who wrote the book,

directed by Philippe Mora. Um, the cast included Christopher Walken, Lindsay Krause, Francis Sternhagen, and Andreas Kutzeh, Katsoulis. It's quite a cast. I mean, this is a talented cast, man. And Andreas Katsoulis is one of my, he plays the one-armed man in the film adaptation of The Fugetive. Yes. Starring Harrison Ford and Tommy Lee Jones. And he's great in that movie, too. He's great in this one. It's, um, yeah. Yeah, you're right. No slouches in here. Yeah, Francis was like a huge Broadway actor at the time. She played the, um, the doctor in this movie, the hypnotherapist, which will get to.

too, but, um, so, oh yeah, Andrew, do you have the official synopsis for us? I sure do. Based on what author Whitley Streber described as true accounts, communion tells the tale of a writer who encounters aliens while on a working vacation in a remote cabin. Boom. Very simple. Um, but the movie not so much simple. Um, so I guess we'll kind of just dive right into it. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Which is one of my favorite things to see in a horror movie, which is a little kid,

acting like a little kid. Just walking around. Oh, with that fun, like, dressed like a 1950s cab driver. What was up with that? You say acting like a little kid, but Whitley Streber's son in this movie, his name is, what's the kid's name, Alex? No, no, that was the crime. I think it's Andrew, isn't it?

It's Andrew. Nope, you're right. Dude, he looks like a 40-year-old. He's making such, like, weird faces. Like, they clearly, I, listen, nobody to get a child actor who can stand still for more than five minutes is amazing. To get one who's actually a good actor is a miracle. So I'm always surprised when that happens. Oh, yeah.

This instance, this movie, I feel like they really had a tough time. Yeah. I think the direction of this movie is going to come up a lot, but let's paint the picture. Our first opening images in this movie is the Manhattan skyline with the Twin Towers, which was, you know, anytime you see those now in a movie, you're like, wow, like this is really putting us back in a certain time. Yeah, and they were such an integral part of the city skyline in the city itself. Like it really is something where you just realize how ingrained in the city it was. And like not to go off on too much of a tangent why they were such a target. Yeah.

Like why it was something that like it really, they had no choice but to kind of represent what people think when they see New York City or what they see when they think of New York City because they're just there and they're glorious. And it's just it's true. It's always a little bit like, oh yeah, like. I forgot it. shame and tragedy and, you know, just awful. Right. Well, okay, so open on the skyline. And then we get the smooth guitars of none other than Eric Clapton.

Did you know he did the music for this? I did only because at first I was just like, huh, why does this sound so much like lethal weapon? And then I was like, oh, because it's the same guy who did the music for lethal weapon. Like that's just that kind of Like it's Spot on, spot on Thank you, thank you, thank you. Yeah, that was my first thought

Like the first thing I looked up about this movie. It's just so great. And it does, if this mute movie is anything, it is a time capsule for 1989. We're in that weird transition from the 80s into the 90s, shoulder pads are big but they're not like all big because people are starting to get over that slightly um new york is still kind of gross like it's right before it was starting to get cleaned up

it is it's and the music is is that time period in a nutshell and i believe lethal weapon came out like the year before i want to say the first lethal weapon is like 88 so to get it might it's either like 88 or 87 actually because i think richard don't or did that movie instead of doing Lost Boys. No big deal. I know that. So to get Eric Clapton to do the music for this movie is a pretty big get. Yeah.

Same with Christopher Walkin. Yeah. Yeah. Like there's honestly a lot of things that are, like, I didn't know how big the book was. And it makes a lot of things make a little bit more sense. And make other things make less sense. Like, again, why they were getting, why they got. the director of the Howling 2 and Howling 3.

But apparently that dude was just like working during the 80s. So they might have just been like, listen, we just need a director. Yep. Yeah, yeah. I do wonder, and I know that Streber was good friends with the director. I don't know if this was prior to the film. I could see the relationship being a little torn apart after the film. But we'll get to that.

Yeah, or not. And you know what, we're not? Because again, it's like if there was something. about how mundane this movie is that made it feel more like a true story to me. Does that make sense? Yeah. Like it was so paired down, nothing was like over dramatized. Like, don't keep me wrong, there are some things. And apparently from what I read, Streber had a problem with how crazy Christopher Walken was being at a certain point. You are spot on. Whitley Streber did not care for Walken's performance. And he told him, he went up to him in the middle of his, like,

a cut scene. And he said, hey, man, you're, you're playing me a little over the top. And honestly, it makes me come off a little crazy. And Watkins replied to him was, well, if the shoe fits. How perfect is that? So you do have to wonder, what did, what did Walken truly think about this role he was playing and the story and the fact that it was supposedly true? I do wonder that. But, um, Absolutely. Yeah, because especially on a film set when you're doing something that is, that some people interpret as true events and some people, I'm sure, question vehemently. You have to think, like, well, what was that film set like? Was like, you know, did the cinematographer think that this was real while the key grip did not? Or the, like, you know, did the director even believe Whitley Streber? Did people, even though apparently like, that's, and this is one thing that I will say, I remember reading something where I believe it was the director. I think him and Whitley Streber are friends because years prior when Whitley Streber had this happen to him, he said to the director, like, explained what happened to the director and the director just said, yeah, you know, something along the lines up when you want to make a movie out of this, come call me. Like, that was it.

He wasn't interested in the reality of it, it seems, at least. And again, I don't want to speak for the man. and as I said in the last review that we had, making a good movie is an incredible feat in and of itself. So to have to do that while towing the line of something that is inherently fantastical, but is supposed to be true, has got to be tough. It's got to be tough. And I mean, there's a lot going on with this one.

But I guess we'll rein it back into the plot. we see this, to me, at least, a very loving family. I think Whitley Streber's relationship with his wife, and as portrayed by these actors, it was very compassionate. It was very endearing. Yeah. And I loved seeing that. Absolutely.

I think that helped ground the movie is that it became about this family's relationship. Almost pretty quickly. One note I do have, and I think you'll agree with. me here. We're both writers. Writers are the worst. And nothing is more evident as that as when he's

I forget what he's saying at the beginning, but he's just like waxing poetic about what he was working on. And I was just like, oh God, she's got to deal with this all the time. There are wolves in the closet, wolves in the basement, warfs

all over the place. They work in advertising. They sell junk food and beer. The gigantic hamburgers, and they drink cold beers for the baseball games on the TV and the bags of the potato chips with them. Big enough to feed a horse. They have a lot of fun. Okay, so this is, I have an exact note on this, because I want your opinion, Andrew. We get these montages of Whitley Streber trying to write.

And it's interesting, you know, he's listening to music. He has a television monitor on himself, staring. at himself. And this is where you really begin to see Christopher Wacken and his acting process, rather than Whitley Streeper in his writing process, I think. Although I guess they could be interchangeable. They're both artists. So I do wonder, like, how much of this is how Whitley Schreber actually did his process and how much of it is Christopher Warkin just doing what he does best. Get up! I'm cooking. I'm cooking. I'm on a roll. What's the matter with you?

Or even the director, you know? Because it's, nothing is harder to make look interesting than someone's sitting at a computer writing. Like, it's just, it's tough. It's hard to make that something that you want to look at visually, especially when

it's got to be such a driving point of who your character is. And I wouldn't, you know, I, I, I would not pretend to understand anybody else's process or, like, go by anybody else's process. But if you wanted to film me writing, it would be the most boring thing that you could possibly catch on film, especially now. Now, like, because I'm trying to just switch things up most of the time

and, like, give my poor wife, like, not having to sit there with me just, like, hunched over on my iPad, which is where I do most of my writing. I'm in my room, or in our room, just like on the bed, just with it, in my chest, just clacking away. It's incredibly boring. It's incredibly boring. is nowhere near as much as like him standing up and dancing the music and like tap in on the notebook and like you said filming himself which I really thought was going to come back a lot more later and didn't um like all this stuff where I'm just like this seems like a very involved process and hey if that's how Whitley Streber writes he's got more New York Times bestsellers than I do so who cares and that's great but I would be very surprised if

that wasn't a choice either by Christopher Wacken or by the director to make those scenes interesting. Right. And you know what? I mean, if you hear Whitley Schreber in person, he's, you know, he's poetic, he's eloquent, but at the same time, he's a little drab and monotone. So, like, to bring out that life in a character that you're portraying, like, yeah, you've got to bring a little bit of yourself to that. And I think that's what Christopher Walken does really good and maybe not so really good in this film. But I do agree with you. I think to understand a writer's process, everyone's a little different. And one of the lines that really stuck out to me, and I think what's important about this scene of how does a writer write is that he doesn't know how to write at this point. He's doing everything he's always done to try to inspire

and get motivated, but nothing's coming to him. So this is a severe writer's block for this guy. He has no idea what comes next, what he's writing, and he even tells his wife, you know, how did today go? And he said, I lost a day. And that's so, I feel like, I have said that so many times. Like, I feel like I just lost an entire day of my life.

I'll never get back. And I didn't do a fucking thing with it. So you understand that frustration of a writer who is at that point in his career where the pressure's on. Like, how do you keep topping yourself when you've hit the top so many times in your genre? So what is the thing, you know? Yeah. And we see that he, even in this, we see that he is, you know, very successful. Like he has they live in an amazing apartment on the Upper West Side that's what I was thinking

too yep yeah like even in 1989 like that's that's nothing to sneeze at to say the least yeah for anyone out there um somebody outside my apartment and they're either dealing drugs or toilet paper and I can't tell which oh they're they're one in the same now yeah yeah um yeah it is it's something to behold to see somebody try to be so eccentric and show the perils of like being a writer at the same time. It is. It's very interesting. And so you're saying Whitley Streber is more of like a reserved human being. I assume you've seen interviews and stuff with him before. Oh yeah. I mean, I met him face to face several times. Yeah, he's a really interesting guy. And we'll get to that.

I think after communion came out and everything he did after that is, it's a fascinating journey, which we'll get to, I think, towards the end. Sure. Okay. So we have Whitley. He has no idea what's coming next in terms of his creative process. So what do you do? You leave.

You go somewhere else. And that's what he and his family do. Oh, I forgot a really, another really colorful moment. So he's so caught up at his process that he burns dinner. And the FDNY shows up to me. And this is what I thought was interesting. The guy comes in, like the fire chief or whatever. He's like, hey, man, you've been warned.

Like, how many, how many ways does Whitley Streber burn enough where the FDU and Y shows up and says, this is like the eighth time you've done this, dude? I do wonder. Yeah, and I love that they have the same response to him burning dinner that they have to him getting written a $200 ticket, which is a very yuppie, like, oh man like they're so they're all like laughing it off it was

it's such a it was such a strange thing to have happened but again it comes into that weird thing of like you're saying like did this happen to this dude a lot like did he burn dinner several times and to the point where the fire department got called why did the fire department get called

like my fire my smoke alarm goes off if like sometimes if the oven gets like slightly too hot. Like, the fire department never gets called on me. Um, so it's like one of the, like, you know, that's a whole other can of worms. But I did think that was fun at your right to see that's just like, oh, that's, like, that's how they show that that's, that's, that's how distracted he was. Yeah. Yeah. He left a, a, a chicken in, in the oven for too long or a turkey or

whatever. I think it was a duck, but, um, we're splitting. Or duck, sure. Yeah. Whatever. All right. So, he almost burns the apartment down. It's time to like, you know, just calm down and they go to their their I guess vacation home this cabin in upstate New York. Right. And I think Whitley is looking at this opportunity. Like, I'm going to bring some friends out there. We're just going to have a good time and let whatever happens happen. And I don't think what he expects to happen happens.

But yeah, let's get to, all right, the cabin scene, the first one. So it's nighttime, everyone goes to bed, you know, they had a nice dinner and everything, and suddenly the cabin is enveloped in some sort of blinding white light, the alarm system disables, just like in dark skies, the last movie we watched, which I thought was interesting. And then Whitley wakes up abruptly in one of the creepiest scenes in a movie, in my opinion, and he looks in the doorway and he sees this. teardrop shaped-faced thing with big black orbital eyes and it peaks in and then it scampers away. Yes. What did you think of this initial appearance of quote-unquote the alien answer? I appreciated how it kind of like built up tension-wise, but also how like very sudden it was. I didn't expect it to happen kind of that quickly.

I will say this brings me to one of my first questions and I see that it's this way on the of the book as well. I have heard of Greys, especially in conversations with you and even just talking about the last movie that we talked about. I have never heard of them being flesh-colored before. Yeah. Yeah. Is that a thing? This is interesting. It's not really a portrayal we're used to seeing. I mean, the image you see on the movie, in the book, this is exactly what he described to the artist who made the drawing. So, I mean, we're talking about it. We're talking about like a tan beige colored alien. Yeah, this is a unique portrayal, I think.

I think a lot of people expected to see these aliens and they'd be like the little grays as we've come to know them. But no, this is not how he described it. So then I guess my next question would be, were there things that looked, like aside from the color of it, were there things that looked like that mentioned in UFO sightings before? Or was this the first time that we get what has kind of commonly been come to know, or we've commonly come to know as what aliens look like and kind of like pop culture and things like that? So there had been reports of these sort of grays prior to this event, but this is the one that really, really shaped the UFO abduction narrative.

So, I mean, there have been others who said they saw, you know, big-headed aliens. with like big, you know, almost insect-like eyes and whatnot. But this was the first time where it really came into the mainstream. And I think a lot of that had to do with the book becoming a bestseller. I mean, after this book came out and people saw that image on the front cover, like thousands and thousands of reports started to come in from all over the world of people saying, I saw the same thing. That book cover terrified me because I know exactly what he's talking about.

No, is it chicken and egg? Like which came first? Were these people influenced by the book and the cover? I can't tell you. But yeah, we get this first glimpse of an alien and then it scampers away in the bedroom. And then we cut to his son in his room and the friends in the other room. And they all see this light like enveloping the home. So, I mean, this isn't just Whitley Streber hallucinating.

and like something is going on and um right you know which is interesting you know usually these these things we they only happen to the person having the experience but we're kind of getting a an objective experience here like something is going on and i thought that was fun too and you do kind of it creates this kind of joint narrative that they don't really um i mean it takes the wife having to go through a therapy session later on to even remember what happened. Yeah. And it also makes the true story aspect of things a little bit more engrossing because then I started to wonder, well, have people ever, I'm sure Whitley Streber has had interviews.

Have those other people been interviewed before, talk about this? Like his friends? Are those like characters that were created for the movie? Or those, like, did he have two friends that he went into the cabin with that are now kind of forever part of his narrative from when he was visited by aliens. I mean, I specifically remember, I haven't read the book in a really long time, so full disclosure, like, I really wanted to come into this review being like, I'm going to compare it to the book, but I can't.

First of all, I'd never seen the movie before. The first time I saw it was watching for this review. But I do distinctly remember him recalling the friends being there during this initial experience. Now, whether or not they've gone on record in their own words, I can't. tell you. I do find it interesting, though, that again, they're, okay, so, okay, the light happens, Whitley sees this weird creature, and then boom. The next morning, um, you know, well, before that, he goes into the sun's room because the son's screaming and he, um, cross the sun down. Um,

they have this weird, like, insensitive moment of, like, Native American chance to one another, which I didn't really understand. And everyone goes back. It was 1989. It was 1989. Exactly. All you can do, if you watch any movie before the year, like, 2010, you can just hope that they're going to be sensitive.

That's really the most you can do. Yeah, yeah. It's so true. All right. So the next morning, this was interesting. The friends, they get out of there. They're like, something weird happened. And we can't explain it, but we don't want to be here.

We're uncomfortable. Whitley's like, no, what are you talking about? Like, it was the moon. It was this. Nothing happened. But it gets to the point where they force him to bring them home, which was really uncomfortable, you know. Yeah, he seems pissed. He's pissed.

Which I really appreciate it. Yeah, I would be too if, like, I invited my friends here. I paid for everything. They're in my home. And then they're saying, we want to go back to the city. bring us back. Like, it's an awkward position to be in because Whitley doesn't remember any of this stuff happening the night prior and flat out denies it or doesn't remember it, which we'll get

to. So, yeah, this is where I think things sort of start to unravel. They go back to New York and almost immediately all this weird shit starts to happen. We go to a night of Halloween where Whitley and his family, they go to a costume party and Whitley's dressed as a, I don't know, a guy in a suit with an elephant trunk, which was pretty interesting. I don't know if that was a Christopher walking choice or what. Well, I think that was trying to show, like, that to me felt like, oh, this isn't a guy that like, you know, makes things up or takes things likely or lightly. They have to like force him to

wear a Halloween costume. And the most that he'll wear is he's like, look, I'll put on this trunk. And they're just like, well, you have to at least wear something gray with it because elephants are gray. Like, so that to me felt like a moment to be like, this is a guy that takes things very seriously. He's not going to just like make up wild and crazy things. Right. So somebody that's like very serious and takes himself very seriously presents this kind of story. They can't be making it up. Like that felt to me as kind of a way to be like, look, this guy's not crazy.

He won't even wear a Halloween costume. That's a really good point. I didn't even think about that. Yeah, it is sure. showing the nature of, yeah, he's, you know, he writes these fantastical stories of like horror and dread and stuff like that. But at the end of the day, like, he's just, he's an eccentric guy. He's an artistic guy. But he's not crazy.

So I think that's a really good point. But, okay, so in terms of being crazy, this is the first moment where we get this scene where he sees a pumpkin in the hallway and he goes up to it with his son. a woman pops out and it's this huge giant praying mantis and he freaks the fuck out and then it cuts to this woman

taking her mask off and be like what like what I was just like it's Halloween so but I mean he's pissed and he's like traumatized by this so this is kind of the first moment where we're like whoa what's going on here

yeah no and it was I loved that effect a lot of the monsters and stuff in this movie I think look fantastic because they're all done practically for the most part because you didn't really have a choice at the time but it does kind of show like oh like I appreciated that aspect of things because I was like oh this is

it's a trauma for him it's like a PTSD type situation but in that same event in that same vein it it both makes things seem more credible and less credible. Does that make sense? Yeah. Like it, because it's something that's like, oh, do you have a trauma from being visited by aliens? Or do you just have a trauma and this is how it's manifesting itself? It comes up even more later

when you find out that he, he's going to see a therapist that specializes in rape victims. Yeah. Yeah, that was, um, that was a crucial moment, I think. In terms of raising the stakes of what's going on. Like we can, we can be like, oh, interesting. Alien abduction, like, kidnapped, experimented on. But then you get to, holy shit, like, these physicians and doctors, they're saying, we think you should talk to someone who works with rape victims. Like, that's a huge, huge step.

Mm-hmm. And I don't know quite what to make of that. I'm talking about it, and I have no idea. I have no idea. I have no idea. I have no idea why I'm here. I don't know what I'm doing, you know, talking about this. I saw something.

They saw something. There was a lot of light. So after this initial thing, he starts to become very paranoid. And he's waking up in the night saying that something's in the room. And also his writer's block is still there. He can't concentrate. And all the while, the sun is also having weird memories and images.

Right. And the tensions really start to rise because the wife is like, what is going on with my family? Like, did something happen? Or is he hallucinating and it's influencing our young son? Like, what the fuck is going on? And clearly something's wrong. Right. Yeah.

And I love, we see like a time jump here too, which I thought was interesting, because it goes from like Halloween. to Christmas, almost immediately. But I did think it was kind of interesting that he, the sun's, like, where his feels like it's more in his head, the sun is just like, I don't want to go near that spaceship. Because there's like a playground the kids are playing in, and it's got something that kind of looks like a spaceship that's like a jungle gym they're playing on.

And he's like, I don't like that spaceship. And I was like, huh. Like, it is, that was interesting. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because, and again, it's something where it's just like, it's like, you know, a kid, it would make sense for a kid to be like afraid of spaceships, depending on what he's watching and intaking. Not that it looks like these people are like watching a lot of TV from what we're seeing or what have you. But it was a cool juxtaposition to see how each of them are having their trauma manifest itself, which is that one is having actual visions. and one is seeing things and things that are already kind of there, which isn't like, you know, which isn't unreasonable.

Yeah, yeah. So, I mean, okay. So this is where the movie starts to, we really hit a U-turn, I think. Now, initial experience, fine, like maybe something happened, interesting. They go back to the cabin in the woods, like you said, for Christmas, hoping things will get better. but this is where shit really goes off the rails for me at least, man. Yes. What do you make of this?

Yeah, the Christmas cabin incident, I guess we can put it. Right. Yeah, I thought it was, it does start to call things into question for a couple reasons. A, I don't, again, I am more of an observer to a lot of the, lore of surrounding UFOs, but most of which I've gotten through you and this podcast. So it strikes me

as odd that somebody would have an experience with aliens, and then go back to that area where they had had their first experience, and then they have an even more intense experience. That, to me,

sounds like it would come from somebody who's lying. it's like no the first time i had this very surreal incident where it was like touched by or i was like touched by light i thought i saw something was light engulfed the house that's like okay that's a weird phenomenon and he's like yeah and then i went back to the cabin and i got pulled up in their ship and they jabbed something into my head to like they gave me a shot of something while i was up there um and i saw not only did i see a gray this time the flesh-colored gray i also saw um little monsters

that are like dressed like men that look like the like oh man it's hard to even think of something to compare them to not Jawa's you don't see Jawa's faces but that was another thing where it's just like it's like okay this is cool looking

but when you tell me that this is what this guy actually experienced now I'm just like well hold up like so you are this is something that has happened to you that you were comfortable enough to put to screen and then we see a physical representation of what you had happened to you and you're like yeah that's it that movie monster that this person was able to develop as cool looking as it is and as creepy as it is is exactly

what I had to deal with that's crazy thing okay okay this is this is interesting that you say that because we get these little small blue aliens like you mentioned they're like in these cloaks. They look very impish and they look so original that I'm like, who can really make the shit up in their head? This is, okay,

I'm going to, full disclosure. I interviewed a woman about having been abducted by aliens when she was a kid. And she described these beings as almost identical to these little blue creatures

in this movie. And of course, Andrew, of course, my first question is, well, had you read the book or had you seen the movie? And she said, no, no, I hadn't. I hadn't. I had a boyfriend who threw the movie on one night. In the minute that little blue creature showed up in the movie, I literally leapt behind the couch and started crying, and I made him turn the movie off, and I've never seen it again since. So, I mean, again, had she so consciously seen that in? image before in the movie or had she read the book and she, um, not, I don't want to say lied to me. I, I believe something firmly happening to this woman. She's one of the most trustworthy people

I've come across in this field. Um, but I did find it interesting that she said she saw these same creatures and never had seen this movie or, uh, read the book. So I don't know. I don't know. Yeah, yeah, because then it's, and like, don't get me wrong. There are, incredible artists that exist in this world. There are people whose job it is. The job is to recreate a possible criminal based on someone's description. And those people in those positions are able to do incredible things and amazing recreations based solely off somebody's description, which is something I can't even fathom to have

somebody described to you a human face and you to be able to be able to. recreate it. So it's even a little bit more understandable that somebody could describe something more fantastical than that, and you would be able to recreate that. But when you, but when I hear that somebody, an author especially of a novelist, and again, I know that's one of the toughest parts about this is this guy makes fiction for a living, but this guy describes these monsters, does not draw them himself to my knowledge, correct? You said somebody else drew the cover of the book. Yeah, yeah. do, you know, literally, it was like a sketch artist situation where he sat down and described it, yeah. So he describes that, then he describes these other little blue men in robes and stuff,

and then that process is even taken from a drawing and recreated by a studio's special effects department or costume department or what have you, or effects department, and to have that be something, that somebody says is exactly what they had the same experience with is a tough pill to swallow for me personal. Yeah, I totally. You know what I mean? Yeah, absolutely. And I do. And I don't want to disparage this woman either because if this was something that was so traumatic that it made her shut off the movie and drove her to tears, like, that's awful. But it's just the idea, Like, we live in a world where things are so often not, like, coincidences, but, like, that are that specific. But who knows?

You know, that's like, that's, that's just wild. That's like, um, uh, Cthulhu type stuff where I don't know if you've ever read the call of Cthulhu, um, not to give any credit to racist H.P. Lovecraft. Yeah, I said it. Um, but he, he, the whole point of called Cthulhu is this call goes out one night. where, and this is a time before social media or movies or anything like that, or well-made movies anyway, advanced movies. I don't want to say not well-made. Anyway, people are, you have this phenomenon where people throughout the world who have never met are drawing and sculpting this monster exactly the same, which is like a solid work of fiction.

Like there's H.P. Lovecraft inspired a lot of, a whole generation of writers and creators and continues to inspire people to this day. So it's always that kind of stuff that makes me go like, huh, like, it's just, that's wild to me. That's the most wild thing that I've heard about this movie is that somebody had an experience that they considered to be so similar that in this movie, that aspect of this movie freaked to them out. That's crazy to me. Maybe that's what it is. It's not even just that it's unbelievable. It's just that's wild. I agree with you.

And again, it goes back to the cover of the book. So many people said they cannot pick up that book to this day or look at it because it's so strikingly similar to what they saw. So, again, I don't want to ever strip anyone a witness or an experiencer of their experience. I myself struggle with it greatly, Andrew. I mean, you know, on the record and off the record, I'm a very scuba. person of all of this UFO stuff. Absolutely. Absolutely. But it's those rare cases where I have no other choice but to be like, huh, something

happened to you. I can't say it was an alien. I can't say it was an interdimensional creature or, you know, a spirit or this, but I can firmly say I'm seeing how it's affecting you and something, you believe this happened to you. And it's affecting you in ways that I can not even begin to describe it scares me that we can't just shove this in a box of they're making it up or it's regressed physical abuse

as a child and this is the way you painted it to be as an alien abduction to deal with it like that's the biggest way that skeptics will come at these alien abductees is you clearly were abused as a child and this is the way you put the memory down and paint into something different.

Sure, that can be said for some people, of course, but end of the day, not all of them. Thousands of people are describing these things who are sane, credible, straightforward, were never abused in their lives. So what is that? What is that? I don't know. Right. Right. Hey, y'all. Ryan Spreck here.

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So please help Somewhere in the Skies now by becoming a patron. To contribute and to learn more, visit www. patreon.com backslash somewhere skies. Thank you for your support. And now on with the show. And it's one of those things too where it's it was such a time where it would be hard to even recreate something like that. It was a time when books were a main source of entertainment for people. Bookstores were thriving. Something like this could come out and get traction in all corners of the world easily.

And then you also have something where it wasn't like, oh, I'm going to go. to the bookstore and specifically go to the section that's about UFO fiction. Not even just fiction, but like UFO fiction or nonfiction, sorry. And we find this specifically, this more than likely,

especially if it was a New York Times bestseller, just came out and had its own section in the bookstore, or had its own display in the bookstore, and that's just what people saw. And it would also be, crazy to think, that like, there's a movie in and of itself,

is somebody walking into a bookstore and seeing something that has haunted their dreams for years that they very truly believe that they experience on a shelf, like in multiple copies of it, just staring them right back in the face. Like that in and of itself is an experience where it's hard to deny someone the feeling that they have from something like that. Yeah. Because we can't, we weren't in the room. And we weren't even there, not even just in the room to when they were visited. I would have loved to be in the room when this woman saw this movie for the first time. You know what I mean? Yeah.

Like to be the only person that can really vouch for her being so frightened by this that she had to turn it off is the boyfriend that was there at the time. Because aside from that, it's hard to even prove that that that's true. But if somebody feels that strongly, especially somebody that you claim is, honest that you've dealt with. And I know you've dealt with a lot of not honest people and people who you like, the more you deal with unhonest people, it's easier to figure out who the ones are that are being honest. Exactly. So I, you saying that you think somebody is honest and truthful is honestly worth a lot to me. And yet still, it's, it's just, it's, it's just crazy. It is. And it's hard to, um, you know, take that leap over the wall.

to be like, okay, yeah, I firmly believe you were abducted by aliens. I totally get that, man. In my biggest defense always is, I was not there when it happened. And you said the same exact thing. And that's what it comes down to you. These experience are so personal, so subjective. They come with so much baggage and the lens and perception that you view it from, that we can't tell up from down,

left from right. And, you know, bringing it back to Whitley Streber, this is a moment where it's so dreamlike and nightmarish that he literally gets a gun and tries to hunt down this little blue alien that took him at one point. And we come to find out that he shoots at the alien and then boom, comes out of some weird dream state and he almost shot his fucking wife and killed her. Yo, yo, is that in the book? Is that a real thing that almost happened?

I'm pretty sure. That's, with that part, too, I was like, whoa. Like, it is, I will say. That seems like a big thing to make up in, uh, in terms of, yes, exactly. The screen adaptation. Now, whether or not it actually happened, we can't say. Um, however, to put something like that, you are a popular novelist who is at maybe the height of your career.

Now, you could argue that he was having writers block at the time. So maybe he was really reaching for a story to tell. Um, I don't. don't know, and I say height of his career, but I don't know if, like, maybe, I noticed that at least from what I recall, there's nothing in this movie about, like, publishers breathing down his neck being like, you're going to lose your job if you don't give us this next book, things like that, you know what I mean? So there's nothing in there that would make it seem like, oh, he had to make this story

up or else he wouldn't have anything to push forward. But to do something or to put out something that you were claiming to be true that not only might make you look crazy, but make you look like someone who almost committed manslaughter is something that you don't do lightly unless you truly believe it. I don't know Whitley-Striever, but you don't say like, hey, guess what? I was so thrown off by this that I almost killed my wife unless you're willing to take whatever heat is going to come with that as well. That was a big turning point for me, because I was like, oh man, we just saw this crazy shit. But then, wow, he shows that he might have, like, these problems are more than just things that he's seeing.

They almost made him murder somebody that he loves. Yeah, I think you're right. I think this is a turning point for the movie and for Whitley Streber as well. I think he now realizes whatever's happening. It's not just a figment of my imagination. And even if it is, it's causing me to almost harm my family. So I got to, I have to, I got to approach this. And for him, it came in the form of going to, to get these temporal lobe epilepsy tests, which is really interesting. This is kind of what they think, oh, this could be it. Like during these bouts of epilepsy, you can have these hallucinations and this and that. And the tests come back negative. So it's clearly not that. It's, something else. And I think that's not the answer he was looking for. He wanted it to be that.

So when it's not, it's like, fuck, now I still have to go on and struggle with what this is. Yeah. Yeah, I know. I appreciated that they tried to come up with a like, oh, I can't get a scientific answer for this. Like, this isn't something, this isn't a tumor that I have that's making me see things. This is not like something where I could literally be pinpointed. and what I liked about that even more is it showed that he was because I feel like a lot of people, their first step might be therapy, but he went the other direction. And it's just like, no, there's probably some scientific reason as to why this is happening to me. Yeah, I respect that. Yeah, same.

Absolutely. That's not an easy thing to go through. And especially, you know, you have the wound behind his ear that even his wife claims to see. and then he you have a doctor being like yeah no there's nothing there you're fine yeah two days later which i will say any doctor who's going to be working two days after christmas i call into i i'm gonna have to call into question a little bit that's the most questionable thing about this movie yeah exactly yeah that's where i was like no hold on yeah yeah well i mean we can i guess we can't really talk about Willie Streeper's experiences, Andrew, without

acknowledging that this was the first case that came forward where someone said that they were basically raped by an alien. They had a probe of some sort inserted into the rectum, and it was extremely painful and traumatizing.

And for William Strieble to come forward and straight up be like, yo, I got raped by an alien. Like, that's a big. deal. That's not just saying I was taken, I was experimented on, they messed with my head. He's now saying something that could completely ruin his reputation if it hadn't had been ruined already by trying to murder his wife, apparently. Right. So, I mean, yeah, we have to talk about that. That's where this trope of aliens sticking stuff up of people's butts, where this whole thing came from.

And again, we can laugh about it, but at the end of the day, like, this is an extremely traumatizing thing. And if anything, I also, I appreciate that they didn't, you know, when that scene happened, it's not funny. There are things that they play for laughs in this movie, but with that, they took it very seriously, even though it is something that is kind of inherently absurd, and something that people do make jokes about quite often, especially when they're talking about people who have experienced trauma from UFOs are claimed to have been abducted and claimed to have been probed. That is something that, for a long time, I feel like, has been easy to laugh about it. Even almost only recently is something that I feel like people are starting to say, like, well, you know, that's not funny.

For one of two reasons. A, if it did happen to this person, it's something that's going to be incredibly traumatic. and B, if it's something where they were possibly raped and this is how they're dealing with it, then that's also awful, like, and not something to laugh at. But I feel like for a long time, that's something that people have just actively made jokes about. Yeah. So, I mean, in the balance, that delicate balance in this movie of what's funny and what's not really plays out in these abduction scenes, I think. And, you know, here's an exact quote from Whitley Streeper in the movie, quote, these little blue fuckers took me, stuck a needle in my skull and put a probe in my rectum.

I mean, that line alone, it's, it carries so much weight in terms of like, it's so absurd. I realize that. But they, you know, they literally, they took, they stripped me of everything, my entire being, my, my, myself, my control. my um oh god it's just it's traumatizing and you don't even know if these aliens realize what they're doing to these people when the doctor hypnotized me i was supposed to recall prowlers or something but in fact i recall something else i sure do but little blue fuckers about that big and this is a time too where it's still like you know we're still in an era where like you know men have to be men exactly and you can't like most men who are who deal with sexual assault

don't report it. Like, even to this day, like, the percentage is very low for people that will actually come forward about something like that. So for somebody to come forward about something like that during a time when that was much less likely and on such grandest scale is pretty significant. And I do think adds to the, again, the credence of what he's trying to say. Now, I could also argue that if you are somebody who is smart enough to write fiction that is, critically well received and liked and liked by the general populace, you would know,

hey, I get to add in some of these extra details to make me not seem like a crazy person. But it's, you know, that's just where the most difficult part about all of this comes from. It's hard, it would be hard for me not to say that if this story came from somebody who wasn't a fiction writer, I might believe it a little bit more. Like you could literally present this movie exactly how it is, and he's a doctor and not a novelist, and I'd be like, you know what? There's a lot going on here.

There's a lot that could ruin this person's reputation. But when you say it's like also a novelist, you're like, yeah, this probably makes for a pretty good book. Yeah. Yeah, and that is the biggest criticism people have of this. And I'm sure that's tough for Whitley as a person. Oh, sure. And I stress if any of this actually happened.

Um, and if it didn't, like, wow, man, kudos for creating like this huge social experiment that completely changed the entire perception of aliens and, uh, stuff moving forward and has become a part of pop culture. I mean, this image of the gray is just so fucking iconic at this point. Um, but yeah. So, okay. So the trauma happens. He's experimented on. And, um, these aliens are just, they're like. I don't, I don't even know how to describe this.

These, these experiences he's having are so dizzying and, like, confusing. He kisses one of the blue aliens at one point. Then he's in this room with these little kids and they've got the masks of the aliens. And he's, you know, half naked reading a magazine in, like, a waiting room. It's just so fucking weird. And that's what always gets me about, about this story specifically is how weird and, imaginative in every sense of the word it is. And whether this was a choice by the director and the designers of how to convey these experiences, I don't know.

But it is so out there that I just, I couldn't tell left from right. I just felt so disoriented when these abduction scenes happened. And it is also something that is very dreamlike, which kind of takes away from the credence of it. I and myself recently in the last few months have been having incredibly vivid dreams. And just this morning had a dream where I was riding in a limo, got into a limo with my wife to these two little people that were in costumes. At least I thought they were little people. More on that in a second. And I was in this limo with a guy that I used to work with who was driving the limo on the right side for some reason.

And also in the limo was professional wrestler Chris Jericho, and we were talking about the AEW that he works for currently and how he thought there was some event that he was going to where they weren't paying him enough. And it turns out they weren't paying him enough because the coronavirus is currently striking the nation. And then when we get to where we're going in the limo, we take these little people up to this apartment,

and they're actually monkeys that we are paying to play with. in a very tiger king-esque type situation, except instead of playing with tiger cubs, and paying to play with monkeys. It's all this weird, surreal combination of things that have happened in my wife's life recently and also things that haven't happened recently, that it is hard to look at something in this movie

as not being a dream because it plays out so much like a dream. You know, dreams very rarely. make perfect, coherent sense. They just don't. I think that's what Whitley Streber is struggling with most in this movie is, what's the dream, what isn't? And I think this is where I do have to give props to the director and Christopher Walkin.

Like, we never can really tell. And I think they do such a good job in those moments of, is this a dream or isn't it? And does that even matter? I mean, we have moments where Whitley Streber's claiming that he was, images were implanted in his head of the world being destroyed or his son dying.

And he doesn't know like why these images are coming to him, what the aliens are trying to convey. And it's maddening. Again, we can't tell what is and what isn't in this movie. Just, and again, that could be things that are brought on by the stress of not being able to

do your job that you usually get paid for. His world is going to end and his son's going to die because he's not going to be able to feed him. Like, you know, there's all kinds of, there are so many ways that you can interpret that. But in the same note, I gotta say, I really love

that this is a very interesting movie to discuss for a lot of these reasons. Oh my God, I know. I do appreciate, yeah, and I appreciate that they not only show it in a more, more mundane sense, they don't shy away from portraying any of this stuff the way it is being portrayed,

that it is being portrayed as Dreamlike, is kind of a testament to Whitley Streber who wrote the film. Who knows what was changed while they were directing it. Ideally, the director was going to be making a lot of those calls on that day. He couldn't get, you know, Whitley Streber couldn't get Christopher Walken to not, quote, unquote, act crazy. But there is just, it again adds more credence to at least this guy being not that crazy. So in order to not feel crazy, he then. and starts going to this therapy group in alien abduction support group.

And these are real. These are happening across the world right now. I guarantee. Well, maybe not right now. Sure. Obviously. Pre-COVID and post-COVID. But as things, I've been to him, I spent a weekend in upstate New York myself with a group of abductees and experiencers.

And, yeah, these people get together and talk about their experiences. And, you know, Whitley just he, I don't think this is really for him. He doesn't want to be a victim, like a lot of them. like a lot of these people claim to be. And it wasn't really for him. But it was interesting to see that, okay, he's open to the fact that maybe I'm not the only one that's experiencing this. And this could be real. Other people could be experiencing this.

So that was interesting. And the fact that his wife was with them. I think that's another important part of all this, too, is his wife, Anne, and what she's going through, having to deal with her husband just spiraling out of control with all this, almost kill. killing her, scaring their son. And what's, is he going crazy or not? And, um, you know, she's a supportive wife in one sense. But at the same time, she's like, I, I'm like ready to take my son and get out of here if this dude keeps going crazy.

So that's got to be a really hard role to play as an actress, but also in real life. Like, what did Anne Streber think of her husband coming forward with all this? Like, how would it affect them? as a couple, and as we see, not very well. My question, and this may or may not have any bearing on what's going on. I want to make that clear. Are they still together? They were together until her dying day, which unfortunately was a few years ago.

Awful. Yeah. And she fully supported him. She supported him through thick and thin. He went on to write another like three books in the Comenian trilogy, as it were. and we'll get to that. Really? Yeah.

This was not, Comedian was not the only book about this. Whoa. She was with him in until we lost her. So, yeah. Wow. No, that's awful. I mean,

hopefully it wasn't anything too terrible people to pass, but that's, yeah. That's very unfortunate. It's nice to, I will say that is nice to hear that they were together together until a point like that

because it's got to be, it couldn't, it couldn't have been easy. for her. It just couldn't have, like you were saying. Yeah, no matter if it was real or not, like, that struggle had always had to always be in her head every single day of, wow, either this is happening or my husband is a complete fraud. And like, what do I do? Do I stay with them? Do I not? Like, where's the moral compass here? But again, neither of us were there and we don't know. So that's what's most frustrating about this whole thing, I think, is that, like, we can debilers. debate whether this actually happened or not till, you know, our dying days ourselves. But it's frustrating to know we will never know if this truly happened or not.

Sure. I mean, if anything, that's what he's going through as well. He wants to know if this is real. And he finally confronts the aliens himself about, I want to know what the fuck is going on with me. So he goes back to the cabin alone where this all started, supposedly. Right. And brings his video camera. That was cool.

He brought his video camera with him. He's like, if I'm going to like prove to anyone this is happening, I got to get these fuckers on film. So he brings his camera. He is dressed to the nines again. He's got his suit on, his fedora. This is one of the most amazing images in this movie. He approaches the woods with the bright light. And I just love this back shot of him.

Like he's looking like almost like a men in black type guy. And he's like about to live. venture into the belly of the beast to finally confront the aliens, which was interesting. And I love some of the imagery in this movie. It was just beautiful in that sort of 80s gritty way. And I think any time we were out at the cabin, like, I just loved it. I loved the cinematography and the visuals that they brought to this. But yeah, back to like the plot.

All right. So final confrontation with the aliens. Well, not so much, I guess. not so much, but he enters the quote-unquote craft, and here's the little blue guys, here's the tan beige guys, and this was one of my favorite moments. The little blue guy sees the camera, and he's like, nah, no, man, no filming, no filming. I love that moment.

It was such a weird, like, it was cute, but it was kind of fun. I feel like they were shooting most of the movie and then realized, like, huh, he's got his video camera out quite a bit. We've got to make that comeback, but there's no footage of this. So let's just have the alien put the kibosh on. I kept wondering, the whole movie, I was like,

I was like, oh, you know, especially when you, like, when somebody who's written, like, it's something's written by somebody who knows narrative structure, it's check off his gun. Like, you don't introduce something like that unless it is going to serve some sort of purpose. Otherwise, it's just,

it's not good. It's not good. It's just not good screenwriting. I'm sure there are some people that argue that it is yada yada. But that is a principle that is used for a very good reason. You don't introduce something like that unless it's going to come into play. And it just kind of, it does in a very, in a way that is funny, but also just very anti-climatic. I was like, oh, okay. So we had that there the whole time just for him to be told to turn it off later. Like it could have not. been in there at all. Or have him filmed the entire experience, and then when he goes to play it back, it's like gone, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. See, there you go. Boom. Look, we just rewrote comedian.

Well, okay, so he's in the craft with the aliens, and this is the most, like, David Lynch-esque, weird scene I've ever seen in a movie. It's so absurd. It's cool. It's unapologetic. It's everything. and I love it. I absolutely love it.

He starts dancing with the aliens, communicating with them in like sign language almost. What did you make of this final sort of competition? I appreciate it again. I would love to, this was something where I would want to like read the book or at least read that section and that account to see how close it was to what he was dealing with

because it felt so, so bonkers, but so specific that I was like, huh, like, this is not like, it's not something that anybody would, I don't want to say it's not something that anybody would make up, because that's just not true. But it's, it's something that is hard to make up. It's something that is hard to just be like, no, this, like, listen, you can't say that this didn't happen to me, because just look how bad shit crazy it is. Look how unique it is, at least as far as I'm concerned. Are there a lot, of UFO stories about people dancing with aliens? Not that I can recall. There you go. This is what I love about this, though. This scene is walking, or I should say, Willie Streeper has this line that he says to the alien.

He says, quote, I am you, you are me, and we are here. I'm the dreamer, and you are the dream. Which is a callback to an earlier scene, too, right? Yep. It's almost like he's in, like he, it's almost like he's looking into the future earlier on. Yep. Exactly. And I love that about this, where he's taking control of the situation that he did not feel in control of throughout this entire journey.

And I, I just, he didn't get the answers that he sought, I think, but he, he confronted this presence that it invaded his life. And he said, look, whether to dream or not, I'm a part of it. And that's where I think the whole idea of communion comes in is if you're going to do this to me unwillingly and I'm never going to truly know what you're doing, I'm at least going to like, I'm going to lead every now and again. And I think that's what he's kind of showing is like, if you want to do this, like, I have a say in it. And I think that's good. You know, he's taking back control of all this shit that's happened to him, almost ruined his life, his family. And look, you can do this. we can meet up.

Maybe you'll slowly give me answers or not. But like, let me be a part of it. And I respect that as a character study, at least. Yeah, yeah. And it's also interesting in that, again, we have somebody who had an experience, goes back to the place that they were,

where they had that experience, and has a more intense experience, and then goes back again, and it has an incredibly tense and are intense and vivid experience, which is, it's almost so insane, insane that it's believable,

if that makes sense. Yeah. Like, it's, that's crazy to me. Like, that's, but again, he's like actively saying this. Narratively, it works out pretty well. The rule of threes applies to a lot of things. Um,

and not just comedy. I, but to have that, like, heightened every time he goes back, um, is it's just crazy, it's crazy, man. It's crazy. I like, how often do people who claim to be abducted revisit the site where they are abducted? And if they do, are they abducted again? Right. Rarely, if ever, at least in my experience with interviewing these people, it is something

they try to regress or forget about. And even if they embrace their experience, they're not going to try to put themselves back in that situation. So, yeah, I mean, again, if this is all true and Whitley did keep going back to the site where it happened, I credit him for really, again, taking control of the situation, facing his demons, as it were. Again, you're right. Storytelling-wise, it's awesome. Like, yeah, let's figure this out.

Does he? I don't know. He wakes back up after this experience in his car, and it almost seems like it was all a dream again, but we will never truly know. But I think what's really, really cool after this, this final kind of confrontation, is he

goes back home, he's at an art museum with his wife, and they start really talking about what it could be and what it could represent. And then it dawns on Whitley Street River, oh my God, this is the story I have to write.

And boom, we've gone to that meta level where everything that's happened to him is now going to be his new project and hence writer's block is gone and he says Whitley is back one of the most Christopher walking moments of the movie

yeah and a very forest gump-esque kind of moment to just like oh I'm gonna like hey who knows maybe that conversation happened exactly the way it happened between him and his wife but it was something where I was like man this is pretty pretty convenient

it. Yeah, yeah, it is. And again, like, how this story unfolds. Yeah. I truly never know. But, okay, so he starts writing communion, the book, and he is on a fucking roll, and then, boom, the alien shows up in his home in New York City. And big alien head, floating in midair, and what does he do? He embraces it.

It's finally this moment of, you are me, I am you. wherever the story is going, I'm now a part of it. And we get Eric Clapton coming in again with the guitar, a streamer and his wife and kid go on the roof to look up at the sky. And that's communion. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I like that last shot, especially because, you know,

weren't no drones back then. So you would have had to get somebody in a helicopter and get up there to get that shot, which is, you know, pretty impressive. Here's, I want to get to some conclusions, Andrew, where, sure. What we think of this thing overall. There's, there's one thing I want to bring up. There's one part during the last alien encounter where Christopher Walken is dancing with

the aliens, like we mentioned. And he literally shrugged at what looks like someone off camera or to himself for the aliens. But I think whatever he was shrugging at to me, that one moment. it's um it encapsulates the feeling in the world of this movie for me overall we can't tell what's real what isn't if walkin is acting so well that it's wittly thinking what the fuck am i doing here or walk and saying what the fuck am i doing in this movie like i don't know but it's just so weird and i loved that about it um it's messy like we i think we can both agree this yeah kind of a messy film never quite hits the mark i think it wants to but i don't know what do you think

It just felt so organic to me, this movie. Yeah. Yes, I would agree with that. I also think that it's interesting that the movie doesn't try to make it a movie. Like, narratively, of course, it works out, like we said, in ways that you would expect a movie to work out. But they don't try to, it didn't at least, except for the moments that are purposely fantastical, him being on the bus and him being like, even that's another one. Like it felt so grounded like this woman crying and asking if he knows if this bus went to the end of the line and then him imagining her or not imagining her as a praying mantis and then seeing everybody as praying mantises is very dreamlike. And again, feels not like it's fantastical without being fantastical without embellishing too much.

it feels like something that this guy might have experienced, and it could be the experience of someone who is not well mentally. So because of that, because it didn't shy away from a lot of that stuff, there's elements of this movie that really worked for me. I don't know why my voice went up there right there. But it's, there's things about it that feel like somebody who is trying to put their experience to film without making it seem unbelievable.

But then there are elements where it does just feel wholly unbelievable. I will say, unfortunately, a large part of that is Christopher Walken. And it's not even like he's a bad actor, but I realized while watching this that I haven't seen a ton of movies with Christopher Walken in it. I'm honestly more familiar seeing him and like I watch the episodes of SNL that he's hosted hundreds of times. I've seen him more of being like the Christopher Walken that we all know. So it was interesting to see, and like I'd have seen like Deer Hunter, where he's much more reserved and it was earlier on his career. So it's interesting to see that that like, oh, it's very Walken-esque kind of designation of him doesn't come from nowhere.

Like this is a movie that should be taken kind of seriously and it doesn't seem like he does take it very seriously, even as an actor. like he's just kind of like goofing around and and doing his like doing his shtick yeah um that happens to a lot of actors from that generation especially where they get older and they become almost caricatures of themselves like Pacino or even to a lesser extent sometimes like De Niro but even De Niro can like reel it in like there's there's elements of this that just felt like it's like wow nobody really had control over him and that kind of takes credence away from the story that they're trying to tell for me. There are moments where I think walk-in is very genuine in his portrayal,

especially during the more traumatic parts, or like the moments with his wife. I think he was able to rein it in and take this thing seriously. But all the other moments, I do wonder, like, how tight of leashed the director have on this guy. And I don't think any. I think we said a lot of improv in this. in the script too.

There's scenes in this film where I'm like, they're just letting the actors go to see what comes out. And I appreciate that and I respect that. But then there are times where you're like, guys, the screenplay was written by the writer of the book. This is his story. Like, let's at least explore that.

And I think there are moments throughout this film where it was just walking, testing his acting chops, not in the best of ways, because I think he loses sight of the character he's playing and like you said, he becomes a character of himself. And I think there's a lot of those in this movie, but it almost made the more serious moments for me, more powerful. I have a quote here from the filmmaker, which I wanted to share too.

Cool. He says, the director, I should say, says, quote, at the time this movie was made, as filmmakers, we had to fight for the right to make it ambiguous and agnostic in regard to the issue of the alien presence. Various powerful film companies. wanted a straight horror film or an outright affirmation of alien existence, which would have undermined the unbiased point of view. The psychological dimensions of Whitley Strieber's extraordinary book upon which the film is based continues to fascinate me and the issues raised in the film continue to engage millions. I really appreciate that. I'm not going to lie. That does

give the movie a lot more heft for me to know that they were going in to try to make it ambiguous. And I think that did shine through in a lot of aspects. That's pretty cool. I like that. Yeah. And it almost mirrors the book as well. One of my good buddies, Greg Bishop, he's a UFO researcher. He said this about the book. He said Whitley's book was a watershed document that made millions aware of the phenomenon of UFO abductions. It defined and codified the experiences for thousands of people, many of whom wrote to Streber and his late wife, and with their own stories. His influence can truly be described as iconic.

And I have to agree with him on that. I mean, this is one of the most iconic books ever written on the topic of alien abduction. I think it always will be. And the damn book cover is what always gets people. So, I mean, no matter what actually happened to Whitley Streber or not, his place in UFO literature and the phenomenon overall is, solidified. And I think this movie, although I'm looking right now at Rotten Tomatoes, it has a 20%. Jesus Christ. Yeah. It didn't do well. It didn't do well at all. It didn't make a lot of money either. I mean, it's to the point where it was, it was hard for us to even track this movie

down as we discussed. Oh my God. Yeah. Impossible. Yeah. So I mean, it's tough. It was difficult. Like, unfortunately, the easiest way that I saw is to buy the DVD on like DVD and I have Blu-Rexam. on Amazon, which don't do that to a poor Amazon worker right now. Don't make a group of people that are only supposed to be shipping out essential things, wrap up your communion DVD, and send it out to you, for the love of God, please. Like, I wouldn't say, I wouldn't tell anybody to torrent it either. And I'm not sure how big your UK audience is, but if you get a free week subscription to Stars Watch, you can watch it in the UK, I believe.

I was really excited because I was like, oh, I just sign up, for stars and I get that for like a week and then I can watch it there. I think it's much more easily accessible. I think even Google, like when I looked up like renting it through Google Play, even it was, I could only do it through Euros. So you can't, I think it's, it might have been a bigger hit overseas than it was here. Which is interesting because the book was so successful. That honestly paints a lot of this on a whole new light for me.

I did not know the book was that successful. One million times more than the movie ever was. Crazy. Yeah. crazy, which was, you know, probably the opposite of what they wanted. But it has become a cult classic. And this was, like I mentioned, my first time seeing it. And I mean, it stands on its own, I think, aside from the book as being one of the strangest movies out there on this topic. And it's, that's more real to the phenomenon and how it plays out with abductees, I think, than anything, than any, like, horror or sci-fi movie truly could. It's confirmed. It's murky, and it's, we'll probably never know what actually happened, and that's where we find ourselves today, I think, with alien abduction more than ever. So I got to ask you overall, Andrew, out of five alien dance parties, what do you give this movie? I would give it a two and a half. It really, there are elements of it that I really enjoyed, but I will say watching it was a, a smearly.

of a slog for me. There were more down moments in the movie for me than there were up moments. I will say, in the last half hour or so, it really starts to pull itself together. But if there was somebody, and I can't believe I'm even saying this, somebody other

than like a Christopher Wachan, you know, who would have been great in this movie, like Richard Dreyfus. Like somebody like that. Somebody who we really want to believe. But because it was Christopher Wachan and because of the performance he was giving, That dragged down a lot of this movie for me.

Yeah, so I would give it a two and a half. There are still elements of it. And honestly, that's just in watching it. Discussing the movie, it would get like four out of five alien dance parties. Because I can only appreciate how much we got out of this discussion was much more than I expected. It really, it really adds to the discussion in a way that I think is undeniable. And I'm sure we're not the first ones to talk about this. You know what I mean?

Like, it's, it really brings a lot to the table as far as the UFO lore and the discussion and the things around that. Just as a movie, I'm not going to disagree with that 20% on Rotten Tomatoes. Let me put it that way. Hey, that's fair, man. I think you're right. I think it's a movie overall. I'm going to go with a third. on this one.

Sure. There were things about it. I loved more than I probably should. And a lot of that had to do with the cinematography and that sort of dreamlike feel throughout. I was willing to take that journey. But I think you're right. I think Christopher Walken was the biggest thing, Roadblock, in terms of this story being portrayed the way it probably should have been. But at the same time, I thought his performance was...

endearing in some sense of the word. Sure. I thought he brought... I get that. He brought a unique and... I don't know. A unique approach to Whitley Streber as a character. And maybe that's what this thing needed overall.

I don't know. But end of the day, yeah, I think I'm going to go with three out of five alien dance parties. But I would suggest if anyone can watch the movie, just watch it. It's fun. It was interesting to explore, but I... would recommend reading the book first and foremost before ever watching this thing to get a more accurate portrayal. And you know what? As far as like getting movies made or is concerned, who knows if actually no, I was going to say maybe without Christopher Walken, this movie wouldn't

have gotten made. It does, it is interesting to me that the studio would have such pushback as far as like what they were trying to portraying the novel as straightforward as it seems that they did, especially with the novel being a success. I would love to see like a full on investigative report or documentary about this, just the process of getting this movie made, because it's interesting to me

that's something that could be a New York Times bestseller that would lend itself to a movie so easily, would have as much pushback and then have what seemed to be like a smaller budget than you would expect for something like this, and yet still have somebody like Christopher Walken. And that

That aspect of things is very interesting to me. Yeah, I would love just knowing what I know about getting movies made. Right. Right. You do have to wonder, like, how did all these elements come together? And I'm sure that would be a story on its own. But for anyone out there who's been on the fence about alien abduction, read the book.

Just read the book. That's all I'm going to tell them. And then come out on the other side with, you know, the possibility of watching the movie. movie. I'm babbling right now. I don't even know what I'm saying. That's how dizzy this entire story is. Just read the book communion and take it for what it is. And yeah. Well, before we go, Andrew, I got to ask you, my man, what do you got coming up? Is there anything you can share with us? I know you're doing a lot of stuff digitally right now. Yeah, what are you up to? So I work a lot with a theater company in New York called Random Access Theater. who are a wonderful, wonderful group of people.

I've been very good to me and have been great to work with. And they do a series known as the drunk texts, where they take either a classical text or a new text made classical, and they do semi-staged readings of them while getting progressively drunk. They are drunk, or they play drinking games as they're doing it. They encourage the audience to play drinking games along with them. and if you hear something like that and be like, man, I wish I could make my way out to New York to see something like that. That is no longer a problem currently because they've been doing, they just launched doing those digitally through Zoom calls.

And it's just as crazy as it sounds. They started at the beginning of last month or this month with a drunk reading of the importance of being earnest, which they just did that text of, on the Facebook page of the People's Improv Theater in New York. city. And coming up on May 1st, they'll be doing a reading of a Shakespearean version of the Star Wars prequels, which is just as fun and crazy as it sounds as they're getting drunk. And then on May the 4th, they will be doing a drunk reading of a Shakespearean version of the first Star Wars film, A New Hope, which I adapted for. them in I took

the new hope and filed it down to 20 pages of Shakespearean dialogue. It's going to be silly and fun and we're going to get drunk while we're reading it and you can watch it for free. You can of course donate to them as you're watching it if you feel so inclined.

They love that. But yeah, on May the 4th, 9.30 p.m. Eastern Standard Time. Log on to Facebook and go to the Facebook page of the People's Improv Theater in New city. I'm also in a podcast that's been coming out pretty regularly called Buried Stereo, which is a play on old-timey radio. It's like a satire of old-timey radio shows. They've got three different shows that

they made up specifically for this podcast that you'd almost swear were real radio shows at the time. So if you like old-timey radio, definitely check those out. They're super fun. If you want to check out my other my podcast half white son the black man we are in a spidge of a hiatus right now but the old episodes are still a lot of fun to listen to we play some improv games all that good stuff um yeah i'm out there just keep yours bill follow me on twitter at sanford minus sun or check me out on instagram at half white son of the black man but yeah may 4th that would be the biggest thing if you like star wars if you like shakespeare ooh if we got something to you or for you that's awesome

Yes, for anyone listening, Andrew and I are both in the theater world. And we are, we're taking a big hit right now. I mean, movies and television shows are too, but we are a live audience medium. And that's really tough for us right now. So we're adapting. Companies are trying to figure out how they can still thrive and do what they do best, and that's make theater. So I'm glad to see that that company is doing that. Definitely people go check.

Yeah, man. There's some of the hardest working people I've ever worked with before. I can't say enough nice things about them. So give it a peek. It's fun and it's even more fun if you're having a couple of drinks. Always. Everything is, especially in communion. So, brother, I got to thank you again for doing this for coming on.

Thank you, buddy. This is one of the longest reviews I think I've ever done of a movie, but it deserves it. I think it truly does. Yeah. And I know this isn't the last time we're going to be doing this. I'm probably going to hit you up in a week or so to do. do another one, but um... That sounds amazing. I want to throw something

to your audience a little bit of a, uh, um, what's the word? I'm the survey. Ryan had talked about doing another alien movie, um, and I pitched the faculty. And I think rightfully so, because it is a little bit more

fiction, it's entirely fiction based and more off of, uh, it's basically just like a modern retelling of invasion of the body snatchers. But I would say what movie would people like us to cover? Because I felt bad not having any suggestions. But if there are more abduction movies out there, especially ones that can create such a discussion like Communion did,

I would be totally down to dive in, and especially because they will probably be things that I have not seen before. So I would say to your audience, if you have listened to this entire almost two hours of this episode. And maybe we can put this on Twitter as a survey or something like that, too. Totally. What movies would you recommend that are abduction films that we could check out and pick apart like we did now? I absolutely love that.

We're going to, I will definitely put that survey out when this airs. And we will. Yeah, let's hear from the audience. What do you guys want us to review? And maybe we can invite some people. to give their own thoughts and opinions as well. So they're not to listen to us. Babble for two hours.

This was so much fun. Thank you for helping me not go insane. And to everyone out there, stay safe, be healthy, and we will see you on the other side. So thank you, Andrew. Thank you, buddy. Anytime. I'm Ryan Spring.

And I'm Andrew Sanford. And we love pro wrestling. It's the best. Headlocks, elbow drops. scathing promos and chair shots. We just can't get enough of it. So, we started a podcast. You can join Ryan and me as we dig into the ins and outs of pro wrestling like the rabid fans we are.

We've got interviews, previews, predictions, news, and so much more. And we're going to cover all of it on somewhere in the rain. Oh, yeah. Is that supposed to be macho, man? Nope, no good. We'll work on it. Join us every Wednesday, wherever you get your podcasts for all new episodes, and we'll see you somewhere in the ring. Somewhere in the Ring is part of the E1 Podcast Network.

Hey guys, Ryan Sprague here from Somewhere in the Skies, and welcome to a very special live stream tonight. If you've been paying attention on our social media, you know what's coming at you tonight, especially with that intro. we are going to be reviewing John Carpenter's The Thing from 1982, a movie that I admittedly have never seen. And both of our guests tonight, two of my closest friends and colleagues, couldn't believe that. And a lot of you couldn't believe it either. But I finally watched the thing. What did I think of it? What did they think of it?

We're going to get into all of it tonight. So without further ado, I only have them for a limited amount of time. So we are going to get through this thing. And it's going to be a lot of fun. So thank you for joining us, guys. Without further ado, let's bring them in. We have Nicholas Westermeyer. We have Andrew Sanford.

Welcome back, gentlemen. Hi. Hey. Hello. Welcome, welcome. I can't believe I have you both in the same digital room. This is the first time we've done this since, I think, God, the found footage one. Yeah, probably.

Okay. Okay. Yeah, yeah, that was a while ago. So I know Nick and I did Halloween recently, which was, it was okay. Movies very controversial, I guess, for many horror fans. But this one's going to be a lot of fun, alien themed. So I know a lot of our audience is going to dig that. But let's get into it, guys.

What is your history before we even get to it with this movie? Have you seen it? When was the first time you saw it? Nick, let's start with you. So I actually was kind of like you. I didn't watch this movie until Halloween. So because I miss both of you guys and especially Andrew at Halloween time, I started just watching horror movies because I was at homeworking.

So I was like, oh, I haven't seen the thing. And my brother's like 47 years old. So obviously this is like, this is peak him, right? Like this is one of his favorites. So I got to watch this movie. So for some of I had seen it. I loved it. I had a lot of thoughts about it.

But I thought it was just brilliantly executed. Except for one thing, which I'll bring up. Ooh. We'll get there. Andrew, how about you, ready? Okay, okay. What's your history with this movie? I did not really go on dates or hang out much in high school.

I spent a lot of my time going to the Best Buy in my local mall on Friday nights, buying a couple movies and heading home. I particularly remember purchasing this one. it was a special edition DVD that was like when they actually used to care about like what the box was like and I remember watching it and being absolutely blown away by what I ended up saying I apologize if you hear my children in the background but they're great so I don't super apologize they're awesome so yeah so I saw it I'm relatively young and it's been a a real favorite of mine ever since sorry no spoilers in the chat Jay Ellen Heineken says, no spoilers. Jay Ellen Heineken, this might not be the time to watch this man, because we are going heavy in the spirit of the right.

That's what these movie reviews are for. I apologize, buddy. But go watch the movie, come back and watch this. It'll be here forever now. It's now on the internet. Imperpuretivity. Yes, exactly. Cool.

All right. Well, that's cool. Well, I just saw this for the first time a couple days ago. And then I watched it again today. So it's fresh in my mind. I'm ready to talk about it. Let me get, I'm such a professional. I have a slide show.

You've come so far, Ryan, so far in these things. Don't you love it? I go all out for these movie reviews. I should probably be doing this more for the actual Summer in the Sky Show. But no, I love doing this. You guys know. Exactly. And this is like the other side of me that a lot of the people who follow my work

don't really know about it. I'm a screenwriter. I'm a playwright. I'm a huge sci-fi nerd too. And I love movies. So I really do like going to all out for these, as you guys know. So why don't we just go through the quick, you know, really quick kind of, I guess, history of this. This is from 1982, John Carpenter, directed by John Carpenter, written by Bill Lancaster, music by Ennio Maricone, who was mostly known for westerns. So we'll talk a little about that. The effects were by Rob Boutin. I think we're going to be talking a lot about him tonight,

who worked with Carpenter on The Fog and is known for the effects in the Howling as well. 23 years of age at the time when he made the effects for this movie. Doesn't that make you feel like what hell is I doing it? That's why that's impressive. That's, yeah. That being said, he was a little in over his head with this movie, and they had to call in someone to come help him with the effects on some of the scenes in this. And who was that?

None other than Stan Winston came in to kind of save the day on a lot of these effects, too. So, yeah, yeah. A lot of people worked on this movie, which is really, really cool. Let's get to the cast starring Kurt Russell, A. Wilford Brimley, the diabetes guy. Yes, thank you. TK. Carter, David Cleaning, Keith David, who I love, love, love.

I didn't know this. Andrew, you might know this. Keith David narrated the entire Monday Night Wars series. Oh, yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. For WWF. He did a few of them, too, I think. There's a couple DVDs.

I think he did narrations for them for, because you just need that voice. Skeller. Yeah, it's incredible. When I was watching Monday Night Wars, I recently rewatched it. I'm like, that voice sounds so damn familiar. And then when I looked it up, I'm like, yep, there it is. He voiced, oh, because again, children, the princess and the frog, he was the main villain in that too, wasn't he?

Oh, was he? I think so. And also I think of the ass effect, which I'm playing right now, replaying. I think he's also one of the voices in that. Okay. Which one? Mass Effect. Oh, nice.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like stellar. I am. He's also, gargoyles. Oh, my God, yes. I tried to. David is, like,

I don't use the term legend lately, but he's a legend and he's also, this is his first of at least two Carpenter collaborations. What's his other one? Yes.

They live. Yep. I have not seen that. With that, that iconic fight scene. with um yeah yeah yeah wadi piper another i knew we would get enough wrestling references into this episode um well and what's really cool too is this entire cast except kurt russell i didn't know this uh we're all stage actors prior to this oh interesting which you buddies you kind of get that you know from the

feel of this movie yeah yeah um let's go through a quick plot synopsis before we dive into the actual movie guys. In remote Antarctica, a group of American research scientists are disturbed at their base camp by a helicopter shooting at a sled dog. When they take in the dog, it brutally attacks both human beings and canines in the camp, and they discover the beast can assume the shape of its victims. A resourceful helicopter pilot, played by Kurt Russell, and the camp doctor, Richard Dysart, lead the camp crew in a desperate, gory battle against the vicious creature before it picks them off one by one. That's the official plot synopsis on IMDB.

I think that covers it pretty well. Let's see. History of this. Let's just get to that. Just to show that I did my research. You know, we've got, this is a remake of 1951's The Thing from Another World, which Carpenter was a huge fan of. It's based on a 1938 novel who goes there.

Yeah, which actually Carpenter stayed more faithful to that. than the actual first original movie. Toby Hooper was originally at the helm of the project, but ended up leaving, and that's when Carpenter was brought on board. What else? The entire cast, like I mentioned, were stage actors. And last but not least,

and we'll get to the end of the movie, obviously. But Universal Studios wanted a happy ending when they filmed it, but Carpenter refused to put that in. We'll get to that actual ending in this review. uh let's do it guys um hello to everyone in the chat i need to just get through this so i'll try to put your chat up um guys if you really want me to see them put them in the super chat help out the show and we'll be sure to shout you out here soup in this review the soupal did i say suple no i said

super because i can't talk that that's that that theater training right there speaking of which i'm drinking a winter warmer beer from bedford shire i thought it was appropriate for tonight i'm drinking of blade and blow. Damn. Blade and blow because, you know, whiskey in this movie is heavily relied upon. J&B, yep. What do you got?

A pomegranate cherry, Canada dry. Ooh. Yeah. Oh my gosh. Going all out, buddy. He's the responsible pair in this group. Whatever.

Wherever, it doesn't matter. Oh. I've got some of the behind the scenes images here, too. If you're watching this on you. YouTube. This will be an audio format too. So in that case, we're doing a lot of visuals tonight, guys. So if you're listening to the audio,

go watch this YouTube version right now. The sweater, I know. Carpenter is the bottom left. Like, what a looker, man. Where was this film? Where did they film this? Like, the actual show. So, um, they filmed a portion of this in Alaska.

Uh, and I've got a clip actually that I might play, um, of how miserable it was filming. So they actually did go to Alaska. Brilliant. Dude. Amazing. And then they also shot on a soundstage in L.A.

You see that lower image there of Kurt Russell, where he looks like really sickly and frozen. They, the sound stage, they actually put the temperature down to like, I think negative 10 or something to keep them in character and make it like actual freezing in the right right um so again it's brutal man all out for this thing it's one of those things where those kind of stories those kind of stories i feel like got romanticized for so long and like look i think the results are like undeniable of how like how great this movie is but man the idea of somebody being like look don't tell the actors or maybe do tell the actors or whatever he did but

just crank it down crank the temperature down break it right down. Make sure, I want them to know they're cold. But John, they're actors. They're going to act. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I want them freezing. Andrew, I did, I shot a horror movie where I did a scene.

It was in Ohio. In the venue from the Midwest, you know that Ohio in, like, February is just fucking brutal. And we did that. I had to be shirtless in a unheated warehouse. And I can tell you, that's not, at least they had coats because, like, holy shit. It's not good. Like, all the pain is real. It's just real.

Have you been in a movie where you weren't shirtless? No, why would you ever get cast on something that wasn't shitless in? I swear to God, every movie this guy's in, they're like, can you take your shirt off? Hired. Listen, you gotta pay the bills, buddy. I get it. I get it, man.

No, you're strength. It is what it is. No, no your talent. My talent is. And then we can all only. only aspire. I know, I know. Awesome.

We ain't eaten. Oh, there's the group. There's our group photo, guys, our whole crew. I'm so happy. Isn't that they look so, so happy. So happy. This starts. Let's talk about the opening scene.

First of all, the actual opening scene, which I'm going to be honest, I didn't really dig. We're in space, and a UFO is flying to Earth. Oh my God. And I know you hate those things. Yeah, UFOs are really.

It just, it completely, I don't know, it wasn't what I was expecting this movie to open up to. I just wanted like a shot of like desolate Antarctica. That's why I wanted this movie to start. I have a feeling that opening UFO coming to Earth was definitely like

not a John Carpenter choice. I could be completely wrong. But I feel like they're like, we need to establish aliens are coming to Earth. So let's literally show the UFO coming to the planet. I don't know. Am I wrong on that? Because you see the UFO later.

So it's like, I mean, it's there and it is. But like it's not necessarily, I think, a shot that's needed in terms of establishing story. The only the only reason I would say yes, keep it is because yes, we do see that ship later. But that's a while. Like it's a while before we get that information. And I do think it kind of at least. gives you from because I and I think we see this a lot in other um um story because a lot of the TV shows movies and things like that have ripped off this story ad nauseum at this point um oh yeah

technically this is a you could call it a rip off or knockoff or whatever um but the idea of finding something under the ice i don't mind them almost immediately clarifying like hey this thing isn't from here because i do think you could easily have that other almost even like confusion of like well has this thing been here for what whatever is attacking them has it been here a while is this like something that they on earth that's been hiding or something that's new what i would i i i will say like i i could understand there being some confusion in the fact that we don't find out until later that that spaceship was landing millions of years ago i think they say like it's pretty yeah it's pretty clear or 10 000 like they it's you know it is established

that whatever it was has definitely been here here for a while, but it's not from here. And I do also think that that opening could be looked at more as like a nod to the original film that Carpenter loves so much. So like, you know what I mean? Kind of a entering... Got that B

sci-fi movie feel. Yeah. And it also is just like, it's like, look, he does something vastly different, both in tone and a, well, not vastly different in story, but tonally especially, and the way that they portray the monster. So I think it's almost like him going,

like, hey, you know, I still love that other. I love that other thing. Like you said, Payne Homish, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Good point. You know, as far as, like, an establishing image goes, um, the story is about an alien being out in the middle of nowhere, so they show us an alien out in the middle of nowhere. On the middle of nowhere. It's so funny, because I agree with all that. It's just, I'm so basic. Like, and again, it's not, no, no, no, right or wrong way to watch a movie. I'm going to own my basicness in this. I'm not saying it's wrong. I'm just saying I'm basic.

And I'm like, because I know these movies age. And so the practical effects in this, what I'm sure we'll talk about, are so fucking good. Like, they're so good. And they have, this movie made me again appreciate practical stuff, as I always do. But that was like the one scene where I'm like, oh, that didn't age well. No. Yeah. But again, I know that like that's just a product of, which is why I said it's basic.

It's a product of just what it is. Sure. But in totality of all the effects. in this movie. It's always like, that shows up, I'm like, oh,

because the practical of the ship in the snow looks great. Like I know. The sets on this are pretty good. They feel lipping and real. Yes. Yeah. I mean,

even the helicopter stuff, like, since we're to kind of begin, like, I love, it's funny how much you forget what that looks like as a viewer

and watching movies like to see an actual fucking helicopter, like them using, using a real helicopter, as opposed to something that is digitally altered or CGI or CGI or not real. Like you feel it.

All that grittiness and realism built this world really quickly. And I forgot how much I missed that watching movies. Like how much I miss real shit in a movie. Well, to be fair, sir, Marvel does get all their military equipment real because they do not take any shots of the U.S. military whenever they portray them in their film. I did not.

No, look, you're seeing some real stuff because it's being loaned. Well, I'm just, you guys finish this review. I will just, I'll piece out with you. Bye. Hey. No, but you're not going anywhere. I don't, I think, to your point, like, I'm just being a jerk. I think you're 100% right.

And there's, there's, and it's, and it's, it's tough as well, um, to play slightly devil's advocate because I've also been, um, oh, what was it? I was watching, Andre, I don't disagree. Yeah, nothing beats practical effects. Um, uh, but. it does come to, and this kind of gets into the idea, the conversation we were having about the temperature, messing with the temperature,

is that sometimes it's, like we're growing to a certain point where it's just like, if this movie were to get made now, the dogs would probably be CG. Yeah. And I don't think that's a huge problem. Mainly because I think it comes down to what would you prefer that you see this idol?

on screen when there's supposed to be a dog on screen. But you know that that dog probably did not want to be there, has no idea where it is, got shoved into a truck when it was done, and taken home and taken to be taken to another set the next day. Or are you just happy that like, oh, it's a CG? It doesn't look great. But no animals were forced labor at anybody. I wonder if it would be both, though. I'm one of those things where like, I wouldn't they go the del Toro way, where it's like both,

where you get a real dog for those things that aren't like. super important and then CGI because that always is why I love the most. Well, let's, I guess it. Let's talk about it. You're right, Andrew. We could talk about the dog for 10 hours. Probably the best actor in this episode. Dead dog fucking killed it, man.

That dog deserves an Oscar right here. If you give it like joint, like him and Richard Mazer, who we're seeing in the picture right now, the eventual president of SAG for a while, he was also in his great turn as Stanley Uris and the Itman. any series from the 1990. That's who he is. Thank you,

Aaron. Yes, I think he has that face. He's great. He's like, that's a journeyman's actor, if there ever was one. And action, more than that. Yeah, he's fantastic. But his chemistry with those dogs is so wonderful. And he's probably the most, like the most tragic character of the whole film.

I know. I know. You'd have every reason to believe that it's him that's been turned to do it at. No. No. It's not. He's literally like, One of the only ones not.

We'll get there. Let's talk about this dog. The movie opens. This helicopter is coming in. It's trying to shoot this dog. Very poorly. Very poorly. He missed like 10 shots.

I know. To the point where he's like, screw it. I'm going to throw grenades at this. It's also poorly. Yeah. And we don't know why, which I love. I love this idea that like, okay, why? Why is this happening?

What's up with this dog? So we come to find out, you know, the helicopter that was chasing this dog eventually crashes, pilot dies. The guy shooting at the dog gets out. He's speaking Norwegian to our Antarctica group here, this Navy research group. And they have no idea what he's saying. And he starts shooting at them. They shoot back and kill this guy who was trying to kill the dog. And then that's kind of where this all starts to unfold.

Our dog, you know, wrangler here takes in this husky. Clearly, it's traumatized because it was just being shot at. And it becomes, yeah, yeah. And they take this dog in, probably the biggest mistake they could have made. So that's kind of our opening of the thing here. We've got the UFO coming to Earth, and then we have the scene with the dog. Who wants to take it from here? What comes next?

What stuck out to you next. Well, next we kind of meet everybody at the facility, right? Like we kind of get run down. Yeah, let's talk about that a little bit. We got 12 different guys. Yep, yep. Each, um, how did you think they, how do you think they did? We've got 12 guys stuck in the middle of Antarctica.

Um, how'd they do character-wise? I think they do. I think everybody gets a nice little establishment. Everybody feels different enough that, um, uh, you kind of, you can track every. which is really key with a dog was actually Daniel day Lewis when you are you know trying because you're trying to be quick here like you want to get everybody to know everybody but you don't want to linger too long you definitely want to connect with everyone but then you want to get eggton cold every agreement everybody's killing it in the comments right now that we got some good comment yeah yeah everybody's doing a great job yeah yeah yeah But, yeah, no, I think the character work is really strong, and I think it's why the movie stays endearing throughout. And you also, you get Kurt Russell getting an incredible introduction

where he's drinking and playing chess and is losing to the computer chess and then just destroys it in the response, which is really just gives you what you need to know about him for the rest of the movie right off of that. Absolutely. Yeah, and you kind of get the impression that, you know, these guys have been here for a while. while. We don't really know

what their research is, but I almost don't not important. I just assume as many do that we always have people, military involved up in the Arctic doing science stuff. We know

science-y stuff. The U.S. has a presence there. Canada does. That's where Space Force is located, and that is not a joke. I'm learning so much today. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. because it's yeah i think it's more like greenland but i guess that kind of can't it's greenland i mean yeah but um they uh uh space forces up there is basically like to keep an eye on uh

missiles missiles space and forces yeah yeah you know something that with these characters i felt really strongly and again looking at like time is it felt again i agree with andrew like i think you get a really good establish of they establish all these people really well and i think that one thing they do successfully is that everyone's kind of a kid like an 80s character chariot like i was like oh i've seen all these characters in an 80s movie before i'm watching dawn the dead or any of those movies like it's very it feels very similar and not in a bad way like it allows me it allowed me to be like okay i know each of these guys are like you have like the stoner guy you're like oh he's the stoner guy copy got it you got cut russell who's like the like anti-hero hero hero guy who is fed up with

where he's at, but he's going to do it anyway. But I think that what Carpenter does so well in this is gives you those characters, but you like all of that, which is where I liked about the dog trainer. Like you said, like, for him, that character is when I was just like, oh, you like him immediately because there's this very

different relationship with the different people in that camp. Or like the general who like nobody likes, and you can tell off the bat, nobody fucking likes him. I just feel like it was a good use of stock characters in a creative way. Like, they They could have been less than they were.

And Carpenter does a good job at, like, building that out so you feel for, so you clock, which I'll get to later. So you start clocking each of these people because there are problems a lot of people to fit into, like, to cram into a movie like this. Sure. Right. And I'm not going to lie. Like, they started to kind of blend together for me. Like, I did get confused on who is who at certain times and whatnot. But I think that kind of plays into this, because you've got to.

a quote unquote alien, a thing that assimilates or I guess becomes these people. So I think that kind of plays to the aliens benefit, you know, that we don't really see a ton of character in each of these individuals because then they eventually become, quote, unquote, the thing. And it almost makes it more suspicious to figure out who is who because they don't have these very specific character traits. So when they're acting a little weird, we're kind of like, that wasn't like the person I saw in the beginning of the movie. They're clearly the thing.

I don't know. I could be totally wrong on that. But again, you're probably seeing a huge cast. Well, it's a huge cast. I think a lot of that plays into the acting as well. And like, look, it's not like they, anybody, like, they're not like Power Rangers. It's not like each person wears a different color or it's not like they're, you know, they're all dressed similarly. They're all reacting to things in any similar kind of way, which is panic.

Um, and I think they're also, they've been there long enough. There's a lot going on. And I think it has to do, I think everything that you both have brought up are like great points about them and they both work in the positive, which is that we, we want to know these people, but not know them too well, but know them well enough that we can tell them when they're acting strange, but also maybe not be sure that they're acting strange because like, oh, maybe they're just effect like they're, you know, a lot of that is tension and tone and it's the acting and it's carpenter. It's a lot of things working at the same. So I think it's, you know, I think you guys are nail on that on the head. I also might be looking too much in this, but I feel like this movie starts off immediately with questionable decisions. And what I mean by that, and this is where I'll get into like my plot thing, the fucking general, the main guy, the main like military dude, older guy, breaking the goddamn window to shoot his gun. I'm like, you're in the middle of the Arctic and you're breaking.

Not the best choice. Yeah. There were some. There's some choices going on with this thing and I'll get into it. Like, we're like, that to me is like a theme. like people making not smart choices but not smart choices. But what would you do? You know,

like we have the, the, you know, the benefit of being in our nice little closing apartment. Not break the window. It's freezing fucking cold. Yeah, but you don't have someone shooting at you, Nick.

Come on, man. No. Just let me place that window. It'll be great. It's easy. I know what you say. I get it.

Well, let's kind of get into, okay, so Norwegians. They're, you know, we don't really know. Yes, we're getting in New Regents, finally.

Let's break down Norwich. Oh, man. They're dead now, and we don't really know what's going on. We adopt their dog. I mean, you watch the prequel film that came out in 2011. Thank you very much. We're not going to watch that film. We'll get there.

I've got a little tidbit on that. So the dog, they put it in with the other dogs. They got a bunch of dogs here at this research facility. facility to, you know, live with his own. And this is where the movie just goes to a hundred. They put the dog in this little canon cage with the others and immediately, best acting again I've ever seen from an animal. The dog was terrified. The dog like slow walking in is fucking great. And the other dogs start barking at it and growling because they know something's up. And then we get our first. kind of John Carpenter moment. Who wants to describe this?

Well, at first, it goes into the room, right? They have the little moment where it goes into the room. It sneaks in the room. You know who's in the room. You just see a shadow. And what's fun about that, too, and I could be wrong on this. But if I remember correctly, for that particular shot, they use like a key grip or somebody like that. Yep.

They purposefully. So nobody could recognize them. Yes, they use a shadow of somebody who is not a cast member in the film. Oh, Andreas. Andreas, we're so sorry, buddy. We meant nothing by it. You just can't. You're just not there shooting helicopters.

Andreas, what would be a Norwegian cuisine that I could make here in the U.S.? Get back to me when you get the chance? I'm trying to cook other kinds of foods lately. And I don't know what's – I don't – you know, I think there are the – I don't know why I'm jacking in the podcast for this. I don't know there are certain like if you go to like you know Mexico I'm going to try tacos or but even that sounds more basic than it actually is or like certain regional foods. I don't know what there would be in Norway but I would love to know. Oh, never mind. I actually, maybe I'll finally try it. That's a I like fish. Hey, what about

Norwegian baked? Because I like baking. So I think you bake lutefisk. I think that's baked like. Is that baked? Monnet. I think it's like a bake, Bay. Andreas, I'm going to. What the hell is happening here? Right.

I think that Lutfisk, and this is based almost entirely off of an episode of King of the Hill that I love, that Lutfist is not only a Midwestern Minnesota's kind of delicacy as well, but it is like fish that you bake like a casserole. This is not like two plus hours when we do. I know. We don't have the time tonight, gentlemen. Look, this movie is perfect.

What are we going to do? I, I'm being trolled on my own show. All right. So, despite Norwegian cuisine, what do we think of this first kind of boutine special effects we got going on where the dog just gets destroyed? It's fucking great, man. It is great. It is paste really well, like, just with the transformation, it is horrifying.

Like one thing I love all the It transformation is like The just like texture of it The like wet like goopy Like so you're you're you're just You're sucked into this thing that's happening And you're just both horrified and disgusted in the way that it should be

I feel like oh Like you feel bad for the dogs but you just you're like What the fuck is this thing going to do? It's brilliant. Yeah and it literally annihilates these other dogs. It's really sad. You know, like, I knew going into this movie that I was going into a, quote, unquote,

like, kind of body horror movie. But I didn't know to what extent. And I was eating chili when I was watching this. Wonderful. Biggest mistake I could have made. And, like, I'm not exaggerating when I say, like, I almost threw up. It was the first time I,

watched him besides Hereditary when the scene almost at the head part. Andrew, question before you're you know, were you a parent when you watched hereditary yet or no? I was not. No, not yet. Okay, just I'm letting you know. That's shit real. Like that happened?

My wife in the upstairs and I was like, oh, sure, sure. She's like, what happened? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, sure. That was the only other thing. I had a hard time watching Clerks three last night, so I'm already. It gets worse, dude. Oh, man, that one. Well, that one, I mean, Clerks is heavy.

I didn't see me. Yeah, if you ever about it. I think, yeah, yeah, Clark Series, I really enjoyed it, but it's, it's,

it's heavy. I, I, yeah, watching horror with kids. Now, I have a, if anybody wants to, I write for a website

called P-J-I-B that I love, P-A-J-I-V-A. And if you look up, like, if you do Google, like Pajiba, Andrew Sanford, Child's Play.

I wrote a piece about, um, watching Childs Play for the first time, uh, did he mean to say that. I'm sorry. Oh, I don't know. Sorry to distract you, gays.

I think you meant guys. I don't know. Watching child's play as a new dad was the first time that I felt specifically affected by what I was watching because of having children. And I have purposely not watched films that I usually watch, for instance, like Pet Cemetery. That being said, I did listen to the Pet Cemetery audiobook in October. so I was, I was still steeped in there a little bit.

But dog, dog guts getting sprayed out. That's another thing, man. Those poor dogs didn't want to wake up that day and get sprayed in the face or whatever the fuck they were sprayed in their face. It's nice to see if I back to your nickname. ASPCA announcement of the night. Yes, I know. But it is.

It's incredible. And it's, what's great too is it is, and this is the case with the, um, with the monster all we know about it is that it can mimic and copy other people we don't know how it does that we don't know we do learn at a certain

point that it's at least on like a very base like molecular level because they can even tell if it's like if it has recreated your blood because it would have had to do that so there's like there's something very like it is what is going on is beyond our

our human perception. And because of that, it frees the movie of doing too much exposition. It allows us to stay firmly in all of the main characters, uh, POV, which is very effective. So we feel confused by what they are confused by. Nobody has all the answers, which ratchets up the tension, except for Wilfred Brimley. But the having all the answers, uh, kind of makes him go nuts. You know, like, which is very, it's very lovecraft in that way, the whole movie. That's a really good question. Something I thought about watching this movie, because I was trying to track, like, when people get infected, if you even can, right?

Which I know is very ambiguous. And I was wondering, so, so I was like, is welfare, is he, is he infected from the beginning? And the breaking of the risk of memory, he starts doing like all the analysis, right? Like, how long will it take, the likelihood of someone else being infected 75%? How long will it take for the world to get infected? It brings those numbers up. And so the first time I watched it, I was like, oh, he's running these numbers and he freaks out because he realizes like where this is going to go.

But then rewatching it because he clearly, spoiler towards the end is infected, right? Is I was like, well, shit, is he infected then? He's doing the numbers of how long it will take him to do this, which is Vannex explains why he starts breaking fucking everything? Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, I was like, I could be wrong. I was like, well, maybe he already is. Maybe that's what choice he's making.

I don't know. The only reason I would say no is because I don't think it's an infection. I know where your head's at. And I think that makes a lot of sense what you're saying. But because it gets down to the fact where if they, like when they test their blood and they find out who is actually in fact or who is taking over a recreation, the blood moves. Like it's its own organism. So by the time we are seeing a.

version of them that is the thing they are no longer them in any semblance of the word now that being said i can see what you're saying because they still talk and act like them so it could be within that thing's nature to say i am pretending to be this guy so i have to keep freaking out so maybe i'll just say this stuff and you never see when he gets taken like that's the other thing when he gets he's in the secure room everyone's inside that building which i'll get to second um but all of a sudden he is like he's it man he's like building fucking chips and like and so it's like man is he is he like do is this is he this monster even into that autopsy because like i always think about the autopsy the dude's hand gets fucking cut off but like during

that autopsy he's taking shit out and he's very chill about it like this thing isn't alive and i'm like well man maybe he's an alien and it's that's the long game it starts there i don't know. I made it looking too deep into all this. I honestly, I think it's a fair question to ask, and I think what's kind of fun is there almost isn't an answer?

Yeah. Like there's like Schrodinger's cat. This is the beauty of the script. Again, what was the script writer's name? Bill Lancaster. I just, I love that everything is so perfectly paced in this movie.

You know, like, I had some issues with overall story, but like script-wise, the pacing, and that has a lot to do with Carpenter, too, the way scenes are set up, you have these fadeouts in this movie, which you didn't see a lot in movies at that time. That was a very old school kind of technique of using fadeouts to transition. You have that homage to the original? I think it was. They did that too in the original. But I also think it sets up, like, these are little scenes playing out. So the minute you kind of are comfortable in a scene and trying to figure stuff out, it fades out. And then we're thrust into the next scene that's about to unravel and figure out who is the thing and who's not.

I do want to step back a little bit here with you guys before we move on. We got to talk about when they actually, so they they retrieve these videos from the Norwegians. and it shows them, you know, going to this site where this craft was, this UFO. And they actually go to it. And this is where they start to figure out, whoa. Okay, something's messed up here. There's a bunch of, you know, just crazy, crazy shit going on. They end up getting this creature or person that they bring back to the research facility.

and this is kind of where things really get bad shit crazy, in my opinion, where we start doing the autopsies and trying to figure out what's going on. Brimley, like you mentioned, is doing this autopsy, and I love it, because he's like taking out these human organs and whatnot, and he's just going, ugh, ugh, he's still good, man. He's incredible. Like, his, first of all, gutteral reactions. I always think he is.

Why does no one wear a mask? Why is no one wearing a mask in this bullshit? I would not want like alien ship flying in my mouth. No gloves, no masks. No, just like reaching there and pull that shit out. He put a pencil inside that guy and then put the pencil behind his mother effing ear. Oh. That's how much he doesn't give up.

So again, that kind of plays into like, oh, he doesn't care. Like, is he a thing already? Or is this? just the way biologists worked back then very haphazardly. I don't know. I'm sorry. I need to ask

how old do you guys think Wilford Brimley is in this movie? No looking. Like 45. I'm going to say yeah, I'm going to say like 40 I'm going to do the prices right. I'm going to say 46. Okay. Well, I'm actually kind of annoyed because yeah,

because right, I think it's like 48, 47, something like that. I got it. The reason why I guessed Lois guy, I read, because I was reading about him, because I'm like, is that the Quaker Oats guy? Gotcha. And then I started reading, like, that he was in some movie, he was cast way older. He's the youngest of all of the cast, but he was the cast, we older. And then he was like a rodeo person and a blacksmith.

That dude had a crazy fucking life. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Go look him up. It's worth the time. Yeah, Wolframley is the man. I was like, awesome. I was like, is that the diabetes guy? And I was like, oh, he's the Quaker Oat's guy, too.

My gloned. Mind blown. So, I mean, we don't have to go through the movie beat by beat. I know we don't have a ton of time. But, okay. May I mention a moment real quick before we get it? Yes, please. It might actually be my favorite scare in any movie,

specifically because I remember the moment that I first time I saw. And I'm sure there's no way I'm the only person that thinks this. Maybe not even on this podcast. But the defibrillator going down. a couple, I think it goes down like once, maybe twice, and then goes down again, and the man's chest opens up and bites off the hands. Dude, yes.

It sees pound for pound, one of my favorite practical effects ever. I think it still looks amazing. It's so perfect at the point of the story that it's at because it, I mean, talk about like the through the looking glass kind of moment. Like from that point on, like that's when it starts.

it's turning it like with the dude's head coming up and like it's shooting up into the roof like everything it's almost like it the monster keeps hitting a reset button on what we know about it right which just makes it even scarier uh and it's yeah yeah all this oh just incredible incredible insane stuff it's so fucking cool the other moment with that because i agree andrew like i love that part the other moment i love like with the facts that is a little bit simpler but not when you think about is when the dude's fingers go through the guy's face. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, man. I just, like, every time I watch him, it's like, oh, oh, oh, but it's so fucking well done. Yeah. Like in how long you see it, all of it. Sorry. It's amazing. No, I was going to say a little bit of trivia. I just found this out today. The scene where, you know, the defibrillators go inside and the stomach eats the guy's arms. They actually, they hired an amputee who didn't have. have arms too. And they threw a mask on him. So if you, if you pause during that part,

you can tell it's a mask. But in the moment, you have no idea. They actually hired a guy with no arms. That's great. I always love, they did that one of those for the remake of Donna the, the Zach Snyder and James Guns, Donna the Dead movie, where there's somebody with no legs. Love that movie. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Okay. Well, I mean, we again, we could talk about each body horror moment. And we're here. This is kind of a good example right here. If we've jumped to kind of these parts of movie, can I please say my one issue with

this movie? My one issue with stories of this movie where I was like, God damn it, guys. So you know, like at this point in this movie, you're like, okay, there's a fucking alien floating around that's going to like kill us, right? And it looks like us and it acts like us. Why would you let anyone ever not go in parties of three? like there are people float around by themselves there's people float around and parties of two i'm like my first thing is like first of all stop drinking number two number two parties of three always parties

of three if you have to go anywhere no one's going fucking anywhere and they're just like they're like like Kurt Russell you can go to your shack it's cool go to your shack go get some go get some ice cream take one person with you and i'm like well there's an alien he attacks you in the shadows you're fucked. So why are we not in parties of three? All the time. Parties of three. I was like, you're all stupid. Everyone in this camp is stupid. Stupid people. Again, I

just, and I understand it. The only defense I have is like, we weren't there, like, decisions are poorly made. Every one of them at some point make a poor decision. And I think that kind

of is a testament to the situation, the isolation, the paranoia. You just, like, everything is so uncertain to a point that it will drive you crazy and you're not thinking logically. And of course, we have the helicopter pilot who kind of

becomes the leader in all of this when it should be Wilford Brimley, in my opinion, who goes... Yes, he's already an alien. Exactly. And they end up putting them in a shack and saying, like, you're on your own, buddy. The shack with the fucking noose

with a news. The like, news in shot. I was like, guys, there's news. And then he's like, hey, I'm okay now. I'm still great.

I'm totally not, man, I love that. I love that. I love that. I'm not the thing. I think that's the best, that's the best acting in the movie.

I'm good. Another moment, probably my favorite moment in the movie is when Wilford Brimley's character is shooting at one of the other guys. And he runs out of bullets. So he just throws the guy. Yep.

Yeah, that's great. I saw that. I thought there's an old as Nell skit where it was like Superman and they're like shooting Superman he's like ha ha ha ha and they throw the gun and Superman he's like whoa it's all it's like it's those moments like there are some moments of levity in this movie again with the spiderhead part um probably the most iconic moment in this movie in my opinion when the little thing is like skittering across the store and we get the famous line as someone pointed to in the chat there like you got to be effing kidding me like this is

where we're at. I love it that Carpenter put those in there. And there were a few others, I think, in the deleted scenes. Like, you know, the big question in this movie is, how come there were no female researchers? And, like, take of that what you will. This is a movie in the 80s. Like, it might. I'm a bad person.

Yeah, like, maybe people were thinking, oh, there's one woman there with, like, 11 other guys. I could, I could honestly see that being against military regulations at that point. That might be. You're probably right, actually. But apparently there's a deleted scene where, what's his name? Kurt Russell's character, McGrady, he finds a blow-up doll in one of the guys where he's like a sex doll. God, I wish they kept that in there. I mean, that would have explained so much. God, I love the thing. I love it so much.

I love it. But you know what, it doesn't have a sex doll and, God. But it was. I would love the movie so much more of it at a sex dog. I need parties in three, but I need the sex doll. That's what we're at right now. Andrews season has a perfect film. Someone's going to clip this audio and be like, oh, Ryan was a sextal.

Thanks. The Kathy comic is always here going like, Chocolate, Ack. And with Ryan's at Sex Dog. Ah! Oh, my guy. What am I doing? Let's, let's, okay, so we have all these scenes where like, no one knows who's the thing,

maybe a few people, maybe none, who freaking knows, everything is all flipped upside down. And that bottom right-hand corner image you see there is probably my favorite scene. So good. In this movie. So good. Where McCready decides to tie the remaining people. to, you know, these chairs. And even the dead people he tied up,

which I think is hilarious in the back there. Well, someone's getting them's bitten off, so it makes sense to me. Yeah, good point. Well, isn't it? Yeah, and also the defrosted body they bring back is also like part of it. Yeah.

That was a, yeah. Yeah. They'll go and go to the tube, but they're not fucking around people. Yeah, absolutely. Well, I also know, because I think it's, It also speaks to like the maybe why they don't always travel in groups because they just,

they don't trust each other so much. These tying these people down. And it's one of those things where it's like you understand that impulse, but it also gets those people killed when the shit goes out. Exactly. So it's it takes like wonderful. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry.

Andrew. It takes every fiber of their being to like even like, like, be loyal to one another in the tiniest of ways. Right. they just don't know. And that's the tension that just kept my anxiety going this entire movie. And it was so incredibly paced. And then you get to this scene where McGrady's like, all right, shit like, I'm done. We're testing blood.

We're going to figure it out. If you're one of these things, I'm burning you to death and we're going to, you know, figure this shit out. And this is probably my favorite part of the movie, honestly. It's no music. nothing behind it. And he starts testing their blood one by one. And literally every second. And again, this is my first time watching it.

I had no idea what was about to happen. I know I will never have that luxury again. But even watching it a second time, my anxiety is still there. Oh my God. Yeah, dude. Of him testing each person's blood, you can hear it. You can hear like he's using this little electric shock thing to see if it's like the act.

Yeah. Yeah. And it's just the tension. I've never seen a scene like this in a movie. Maybe in like a Tarantino movie, but other than that. It is one of the best pop scares. Because it's such a underrated pop scare that you're not like, because again, even watching it, like you've watched it the first time, you don't know what's going to happen

when he nails the blood and to have it like explode in that way. Oh, yeah. Okay. For the thing I love about a lot of John Carpenter films, like even if you look at like the original Halloween is that like he doesn't build him on pop scare as he builds tension which I love I think is really really effective in this movie tension and like claustrophobia and tight and being those tight quarters but like if he's gonna do a pop scare it is simply really effective I think about the hand hitting the glass in the first Halloween movie inside the car on we skate or this right like

when he touches that blood and it just it blows up and you're not because you have no idea what that reaction is going to be and I think it is in terms of a building lowly intention for that moment, it's really well executed. Which I'm just saying, everyone knows that John Carverner is a fucking nasty of horror. Well, before we go any further, I do want to bring up with Grant LaBocke is probably one of the biggest Kurt Russell fans ever. My buddy in Australia, who's in the chat here. He clearly loves this movie as I do too. Now, I'm a huge fan now.

He brought up the AIDS epidemic, which actually, in terms of like social commentary was a big thing when this movie came out and I think it does play into it a lot this idea of something you know spreading and you just don't know who has it and everyone was paranoid

we didn't know yeah was it transmitted could you get it from coughing on some like you just don't know so I think that that's and I think that played against the movie actually and why it did so poorly when it came out.

We'll get to that later on. But I do think the AIDS epidemic played a big part in this, whether it did subliminally or like on the actual surface of the Bert Lancaster writing this script, I don't know, but you can't deny the parallels between this.

I think we were just talking about this and I was I'm a professor, too, for contacts, but like we were talking about this in a meeting. Like, whenever we teach art, right, you teach theater, teach art, you teach like anything within, really anything, right? When you're going into teach,

like you can't separate, it's really hard, I think, to separate traumas of the world that are going on, right? So, like, if we're looking at this film, like, whether that's purposeful or not, like, that is a real trauma that is happening at that time.

So, like, you can't take that stuff out of context. Like, people always will contextualize what's happening. And so when you talk about this, like I think about a friend of our, you know, Wayne, like, talking about living in even New York city in the 80s and walking down the street and seeing people dead right dead of eight like they die on the street in the village or in like the lower east side and so i think that's a really good point

like you can't you can't separate those things just like i think for like for us right as we watch things that i was watching the last of us right or my wife and i were um um and they talk about like the did you not like it we can oh no i loved it okay no that was a bad at when that shows done when that show's and we should talk about that. But the intro of that show literally talks about like they're talking about pandemics, right? And I think if you had not lived through a pandemic, you'd be like, oh, man, yeah, that shit's scary. Because the game was made before the pandemic.

And so, but now that we've lived through a literal pandemic, you're like, oh, fuck yeah. Yeah, exactly. And so I think that like, you're right, like the AIDS aspect of this, whether it's purposeful or not, like, that is a thing that people are dealing with. in a very real way, especially when you think about who's writing and acting, people coming from New York and L.A.

where a lot of this shit is cast, right? In dealing with this stuff in an everyday type way, you can't separate those things, right? You really can't. And even I think about watching this film in a modern sense, going through what we've all gone through. Like, that still plays in, right?

Like, what is, like, who is sick? Who isn't sick? Like, is it a cold? Yeah. Like, all these unknowns, like, That's so fresh to us now as a culture that I think that you can't pull those things apart, whether it's intentional or not. Like, it's always there. It's baked in. It's baked in trauma, I guess. Baked in trauma.

That's so, that's most active I think I'll ever say in your podcast. Thank you, Professor Nick. I love it. Well, I guess let's get to kind of, let's get to kind of the end of the plot, quote, unquote. Yeah. Yeah, we'll get there. It wasn't great. like, you know, we have the famous, you know, the thing. We're seeing more and more of the thing as more and more people die. And then we finally get to, I guess, the final moments where, you know, McCready is like,

we got to blow up this whole place. Like this, we have no choice. This is the only thing we can do to stop it from spreading. We're blowing up the base. So he... We're all going to die. He says, like, we're all going to die. Pour our whiskey into the computer, maybe.

Yes, exactly. So him, child, who we haven't really talked about a lot, because he is very unassuming throughout the film. We kind of see him as having a really good relationship with McCready. And, you know, they have a moment of tension,

I think, at one point, but they are kind of... They have, like, a couple moments of tension. Yeah. They do... It's definitely, like, you know, it's all a dick measuring contest of a certain point. It is. It is.

The two tough guys. Exactly. And him and a few of the others go down into the, you know, the basement of the place where, who was it that was kind of planning this big, was literally building a new spaceship. It's Brimley's character. That's why I thought he was a fucking alien from the beginning. He's trying to build a spaceship. I don't know if he, what, like, is he planning on me? How are the old parts?

I'll be old helicopter parts and all that shit. Yeah, which is the most unrealistic part of the movie, I think, but also hilarious. But so they see this. And then we get the final moments of the most unrealistic part. A dog spray is liquid on another dog and becomes that dog. That's scientifically sound, Andrew. I checked the science before we got on. This is somewhere in the skies, Andrew.

That shit is actually in the Pentagon. Liquid dog. No, you're rolled there, buddy. Yeah, that's, that's, that's, that was factual. So, okay, so our final characters start getting picked off. And we finally kind of see the thing in its big form. I don't have an image here, but guys, go watch the movie if you haven't. And it's pretty, pretty grotesque.

And we're kind of left with a final showdown between McCready, our helicopter pilot, the hero of the film. And the thing. That monster is a very moist. It's a very moist monster. It's a very moist monster. It's been down there. It's sweaty. It's got a lot going on.

And that's when McCready decides, all right, just going to blow it all the hell. And we get these final moments, right? Am I missing anything? No. We'll get to the very last scene because that's the, oh, God. I have so many thoughts on the actual ending. I love the time. scene in this movie. I think, again, we talk about, like, another really tense scene of this film.

I think the dog, so we, like, go through, like, really well-constructed tense scenes. The first dog, the dog-caped scene, and dog walking in that happening. The, the autopsy scene, the first one, the second autopsy, like, the hand ripped off scene, by that scene, the blood scene, and then the tunnels. The tunnels, I feel, like, the way that's shot and the way it's paced, it's so both frenetic and built. Like, you know, you feel that climax coming. You're just waiting to see like, how is this going to unfold?

Because now I always think they're out of their element, right? They've gone like the building, buildings are their element. Like they understand that. They understand the space. They've lived in it. And when they leave that and go underground, now they're leaving their environment, their turf. And I think you feel that really distinctly as they try to like set up this explosion.

I think that's really smart too. They take them out of their environment into a brand new environment. even though it's the same place. Right. Which I liked a lot. Interesting. Interesting. I want to thank Arike very quickly here, Ortiz film.

Should the Among Us movie just be the thing remake in space since Last of Us is very Walking Dead? Can I do another shout? Eric, he's a filmmaker I've worked with. That dude is awesome. So if you get a chance to check out his work, you should. He's a good dude. Awesome.

Well, thank you for the super chat. I'll definitely have to check out his work. Thanks for being here, man. Thanks for checking us out. Hope you'll become a subscriber. Subscribe below. I had to do it. Sorry, guys.

We know what this is. Okay. So, Andrew, take it, man. McCready blows this shit all to hell. Yeah, he blows it up, and then he's left with Childs, and I think we already got the question in the chat,

which is whether or not Childs is an alien or if he's normal, which I think, somebody said it can be answered in it either way. I personally think no, and I will explain why two things. We're going very base with it. By the time, it's just the two of them, the alien has no reason to remain childs in that moment or to have it be the kind of tense, quiet moment

that it ends up being. The other reason I would say no is because I think it goes again, against the themes that are being established in the movie, particularly when it comes to trust and how humans especially can often get in our own way when it comes to trusting people down to our own detriment. And I think that happens several times throughout the movie, where you see if people would have just calmed down and talked and not turned on each other so quickly or maybe tried to trust each other a little bit more. Things wouldn't be as bad. I think it would be, I think the true poetry of the movie would be that these two humans, are left together. Both of them are fine. But the trust is just not there. So they freeze to death. And I mean, they're going to freeze to death anyway. But there's no, there's not even any solace that they're going to die together as the last two humans. They just kind of die bitter and afraid and alone.

This is the most nihilistic ending to a movie I've seen. And it was up there. It's up there. Perfect. It has a last lines in the movie. Best line is, let's just sit here for a minute. I thought that I think it's fucking great. And you're just like here for a little while. See what happened. Oh, man. When I saw that, I'm like, oh, my God.

I wish I could write an ending like that someday. And then the thing. And then that credit. And then like that's everything in terms of good editing and filmmaking. And then boom, the thing. I just like it ends on such a nice period in a way that I think is just like, you're like, oh, it hits you. And you're like that, yeah.

Well, yeah. Period is, I would agree, Nick. But clearly the franchise of the thing didn't think so. Because we actually got a sequel. And we got a prequel. What's the sequel? The sequel is the video game. The video game.

There was a video game, Nick. Let's talk about this for just a moment that came out. Where, you know, the U.S. military. comes to figure out what the hell happened here. And then it kind of unfolds from there. Clearly something lived on, something of the thing survived. And then we see the military fighting the thing. And that's the game.

It's a first-person shooter game. It's actually pretty good. It's not a third person. Oh, it's third person. There might have been a first-person one that came out in conjunction with the prequel movie. Don't quote me on that. But this one was third person. added on my PS2. I actually played through it twice.

And both time, the ending is very difficult. Super good. It was a lot of fun. I'm not sure how it holds up now, but one of my favorite things about it, especially at the time, was there was a mechanic where you would basically be collecting team members, kind of as the thing was gone on, because you would be going through. And it's, the game is really good, Eric. But they, you would be like collecting team members. members and then having to like they could end up getting like too scared and you had to have to try to calm them down and you would calm them down by like giving them a gun or like trying to give them a pep talk or like trying to give like a first aid pack that they could hold on to so you'd be trying to like earn trust from the people on your team and then you could also test people's blood if you weren't sure about them and there was a big you had a big emphasis on using like flame throwers to find a lot of these things which is just super fun mechanic um and Now, I never got to witness this myself, which is kind of a couple because I remember both times I played through. There's a moment in the very end that I just could not get past for whatever reason and did not have enough space on my memory card to attempt it enough to actually.

PS2 have memory cards. It doesn't matter. I couldn't get past it, but at the end of the video game, when you succeed and get helicoptered out of there, you are picked up by someone who helps you, escape and then introduces themselves as being Bear McCready. So in the world of the movie, kind of, at least in the video game, he did survive. Well, we should mention to John Carpenter, he has said that this video game is inofficial. Really?

Oh, cool. And he's no one there for it. John Carpins. He fully supported the game and he said, yep. Yeah, I'm all for this story playing out. Yeah. Before we dive into the, I will say I think I have to get going, unfortunately. Oh, absolutely, man. No, no worries at all. No.

Yeah, I'll make me up for a little bit longer. Okay, thanks, Nick. Hey, Andrew, before you go, buddy, I got to put this up. First of all, a very happy birthday to you guys. Happy birthday, Andrew! Thank you. Thank you. Hey. And you celebrate. Tell us about your short film before you get going here.

It's a short religious horror film called Pay the Tithe. We, it's about two couples who go to celebrate an engagement out in a house in the middle of the woods. And then a wounded priest arrives and starts turning everybody against each other. And as he does, his wound begins to heal. Very proud of it. I wrote and directed it back in November of 2021. And we premiered at the Atlanta Horror Film Festival back in October. We'll also be at Pensacon in Pensacola, Florida.

in February, the end of February. So we're out there. We're still waiting to hear on some other dates or other festivals and things of that nature. And then we'll eventually get it online so everybody can see it at their leisure. But if you're in Florida, you're the Pensacola area will be at Pensacon. I think it's like the 24th and 25th. Andrew, before you leave, I was very lucky to both read this script and get to see an early cut of it because Andrew is a lovely human being. It is incredible and it is beautifully done and executed.

And so kudos to you, Andrew. And if you can see it, it is, check it out. It's worth every minute you watch. Thank you. Yep. I appreciate it. I have the pleasure to you. So check it out, guys, when it becomes available.

You can follow Andrew on Twitter, right? Yeah, Twitter at Sanford minus Sun. I have Instagram, but it's private. Andrew's the only reason to know. Unless you know me, don't worry about it. That's fair, buddy. Any final words on the thing before I. I love it.

Find the video game if you can try. track it down. I'm sure you could probably find an emulator of it at this point. I'm watching the movie. If you can get it, see it. They actually, I think there was a whole thing that Mick Garris was talking about in 2022 because I think Fathom Events did something for the 40th anniversary, but the

screening did not look good. So if you're going to go see a screening of it someplace, make sure you're watching a good one, apparently. And don't do fathom events or do, sorry if you work for Fathom Events. And yeah, just, you know, I love the thing. And I I've never seen the prequel. You guys

can fill me in later, but maybe I just know one of the dudes from dumb and dumb er, isn't it? One of those dudes from where I grew up, so I don't know which one, though. The one I'm thinking of was also in a couple episodes of community. He's funny.

Is he the one that played Jim Carrey's character? Yes. I know. He's from Davenport, Iowa. I know who you're talking about. We'll get to the prequel. As well as of that, of that where you can't, where no one can talk.

That's true. That's fair. Quiet. I'll let you go here, buddy. Bye, Andrew. Love you, so. See you guys later.

Thank you for joining us, buddy. Of course. Thank for having me. Have a good weekend. You too. Happy birthday. Is it even worth continuing with the end you're gone? I mean, I'm worth nothing.

I'm literally worth nothing. We just cut it now. All I got was here. Let us know in the chat. Should Andrew is, should Nick and I keep going. Yeah. Well, Nick, let's talk about,

I did not see a real conversation. Let me just... Yeah, let's talk about it, Andrew. I did not see the prequel. Apparently, it follows the story of the Norwegians. And we get to see their story play out. And it's one of these Rogue One-esque sort of movies where we see it play out

and then the final moments of the prequel lead right into the first moments of the 1982 thing. So it's cool. It's a cool idea. cool concept, you know, but it kind of demystifies the whole nature of, of it all, in my opinion. And here's the other thing. The prequel was all CGI. They did practical effects for everything. And the practical effects looked amazing. I watched it behind the scenes of it. I haven't seen the actual prequel, but I watched it behind the scenes. That's all you probably did what. I know. Seriously. They were incredible and they wanted to do it to pay homage to the original. And then, of course, the hands of the executives and the producers at Universal got their tentacles around it and said,

we don't like it. It looks too 80s in retro. And this is before like the 80s was cool again. And they changed everything to CGI and it was horrendous. You know, something that like I was having this conversation with my wife because she just worked. Oh, I can't. No mind. She worked something that my wife does events.

It's almost it. But anyway, you know, she, they were honoring a film. that we all like a lot. And something I like about that filmmaker is that the blending of CGI and practicals. I will go to my fucking grave standing by that they are the best thing to watch. And I understand, like, doing a prequel

and wanting to, like, smooth things out with CGI because CGI is great for that. When you watch something like Hellboy, right, which is all these practical effects to it. Or Cabin of Curiosity, if you like that kind of stuff. Like things can get smoothed out with CGI and look great. But like the idea, like there is something about practicals that are really tangible.

And for a movie like this, right, where what makes that alien so great is it feels real. Or even like I'll even go to like, because Stan Winston, right, like go to like the original Jurassic Park. That shit holds up because it is this really nice mix of practicals and CGI. So I think that like making that choice, I get it, I understand, and CGI has come a long way and you can do cool stuff with it. But when you can use practicals, I really think that it allows your film to stand up more. It's one of my biggest things with like the Star Wars prequels. Like when I watch them is like it's so overly CGIed and green screen that like you feel it because it doesn't age. Whereas like you watch Jurassic Park where obviously not all that aged perfectly, but shit holds it.

up. And the thing's the same way. Like, even the stuff that doesn't look real, like, when they use, like, a stuffed dog or Amtron dog and some of that in the scene where the dog, you're getting just massacred. But, like, the fact that, like, that alien is so visceral in the way that it's created, it just draws you in, right? Because it's one of the things where you can, like, it sounds strange, but, like, you can feel, taste, like, you just, you get, all your senses are engaged because you don't have any disconnect. by knowing it's a computer. And listen, I love CGI.

CGI has made some amazing movies that I love now. Like, Super Movie's at our peak because of CGI. Like, you don't get that cool shit without CGI. But there are just things where like sometimes it's better to just create it. It just is. And there's magic to that. There is. Yeah.

And it's a magic we don't see that often anymore. We did see a lot of it. I would say in stuff like the Lord of the Rue. Rings trilogy. Yeah, and they hold up. They hold up so well. But then you get to the Hobbit trilogy and it's all CGI because they just didn't have time. And they got rid of everything. All the costumes, all the props. Well, and Peter Jackson was supposed to directed. So that also makes it. That's a whole other story. I know. Well, while we're on effects, I've got three quick clips that I want to run through with you, if that's cool, buddy, because I know you've got to get going to.

Yeah, I got about another 20 minutes. So. Okay, perfect. That's all I need. if even that. Here's a clip of John Carpenter. Here's a clip of John Carpenter talking about the effects in The Thing. I did want to play this. The thing can look like anything. It doesn't have to look like one creature. It could look like every life form.

It's imitated throughout the universe because it's been on travels, on its travels for a long, long time. So it was a chance to create a monster that was designed, based and based on the movement we can give it and based on some really crazy kind of offbeat ideas i don't know that there's been a monster done like this yeah i there hasn't this this movie just everything about it i i i'm i'm i'm so happy i finally have been introduced to it um it's a masterclass in filmmaking it really is i mean i wish like this is where i wish we still at andrew as someone who is like a behind

the camera. I know. I need to be a writer too, but like, you know, a director. You know, it just, like you said, my only bet he was the three-person thing. I was just like, why would you not travel with three people? And that's going to be nitpicky. I was like, what can I nitpick about this? If that's the gripe, then you're doing pretty game.

That's my gripe. That's what grab is like, you're drinking a lot, which I guess I get. But I was just like traveling threes. But like the pacing, the character, the everything that's tangible about, just what he said. Like, one of the things I love. I love, you know, following somewhere in the skies or listening to the stuff you do from my perspective. Like, and looking at like aliens, right, is I love when it's just fucking out of the box, right? Because when it's not like a gray or something that is really, that we can really connect with as humans, we're like, oh, we recognize that.

We can like, it's humanoid. We can contextualize it, which is what you see a lot of aliens in pop culture, video games, movies. Like, that's how they do it because it's relatable, I guess. maybe that's not the right turn. This is where I'm out of my skis. It fits in a box of comprehension. Right. Thank you.

And so I love what, especially with what you're saying, like where you have a monster, like a monster, like an alien that is a monster that is just so far beyond anything that we can even like understand. I think that the creature creation in this does that so well by just being almost consensical. Like there's fucking dog heads popping out. It's ridiculous. Yeah. Well, and it plays into the biological aspect.

too. Like, it's trying to replicate cells. And clearly, you know, it's having, excuse me, guys, I apologize. I'm still getting over the, you know what. Not the thing, the other thing. The other thing. Biologically, like, it's trying to replicate and personate. And it's having kind of a hard time doing that. So that's why you're getting, like, the dog popping out. And also, like, the head of one of the guys. And it's just like, it's like AI. It's trying to self-learn as it's replicating. It's brilliant. It's brilliant. It's disgusting. It's beautiful. And with this film in general, like this is the thing that I really appreciate. And you know, I appreciate about this with almost everything I've watched from John Carpenter.

Like as I move through his library as I, you know, watch films. Because I think we've talked about this with Andrew and he's been here. Like, Halloween is still like a pinnacle for scary movies for me. Like it is my like foundational horror movie. one that I will always go back to you like that is that is what did it for me and what I love about and he mentioned it's like his stories are complex but yet they're so very simple right so that thing like the thing can be anything because it's a thing and so that allows him as a filmmaker and the people they're creating this film around him to just go fucking crazy and like it really un it unlocks

this like it gets them out of that box and I think it is it's beautifully executed and then within that everything else in the story is simple, right? Like it is people trapped in a remote location in a small area in a very where like it's it's person like we talk about themes and storytelling, right? It's person against environment. It's a person against a thing like an exterior force and people against people. And so it's such he hits on all these themes of storytelling that we look at when we study theater, right?

Beautifully. Because you have people, you have people fighting people. and you have people doing things that make that conflict worse, drinking or having internal conflict or people who are just in general like, like McCurt, McCurdy, McCready. Yeah. He's not the person you want to put in charge. Like everything about him when they set that story, like this is not the dude you want in charge. He's already at his wit's end coming into this. And so it just sets all these forces in motion before you're even dealing with.

like the monster, right? And so I think that Carper does that so beautifully. And like he doesn't Halloween, he doesn't in the thing. I mean, it's always like these very simplistic stories built upon tension, built upon people fighting against different things in the environment, but he never overcomplicates things. And I think that works so well in this film. He doesn't.

There are so many questions that just don't need to be answered. Yeah. And I think he just doesn't. It's great. He does it. And he does it at the end, too, leaving it so ambiguous that, you know, people left the theater pissed. And others are like, oh, that was brilliant. Timing.

Timing is something we brought up earlier in the conversation, the context of the time, the AIDS epidemic, this, that, this that. When the thing came out in theaters, it was the same week, if I'm not mistaken, or maybe like a week difference, with E.T. Steven Spielberg's, you know, blockbuster film. of a very lovable alien and his little buddy. And then you have this come out, this thing, this extremely dark, desolate, nihilistic, like I said earlier, film that takes a different approach to the whole alien thing. So you had these two competing things.

I keep using the word thing. I apologize by going on. When did First Encounters come out? When is First Encounters in this time? timeline. Oh gosh. That is a very good question. I don't know the answer to that. That's 70s, right? Like late 70s? I want to say late 70s, like 78, 79, maybe. Someone will definitely correct me in the chat. I would love to know. So that's interesting me is you have things like first encounters, first encounter, and then you have this movie, like this idea of aliens and like how we approach it differently too. Because even within TET, there's aspects of horror. I mean, I think about like, I just watched you with my son like five months ago. like when ET dies, right? Like, like, ET's kind of scary.

Like, E.T.'s, that movie's, there's some moments. When he throws the ball into the, you know, he throws the ball and then the ball comes. It's like pinnacle horror right there.

Yeah. But then, yeah, you've got some moments. But I want to have, it was more of a family-friendly film. These, I wonder at the connection of doing these,

like 77. Thank you, Grant. I just wonder why thematically that was carrying over. Because that's, I mean, that's, to me, very telling you of these three from one, two from the same director, right, dealing with this idea of space and aliens and something coming to us, right?

I don't know. Sorry. I'm spending. No, no, no. I think that's interesting. I think it's a very interesting thing to think about them, thematically. It is. And again, it is thematically. And I think Carpenter did that so brilliantly. But clearly, audiences did not want that at the time. I have a clip. of Carpenter talking about how poorly the thing was received, which is insane that all three of us love this movie. It's considered like a masterpiece by main. It is a perfect horror film I can think of that did a genre perfectly. If you were insidious.

Insidious is another horror movie that I think like nails its fucking genre of like haunted house type genre. Like nails it. And this nails like an alien, like a alien monster movie. Niels it. Yeah. sci-fi horror movie. Let me play this clip. This was Carpenter talking about, you know, many years later how the film was received.

And it didn't bomb. Let's say that, first of all. It made $19 million in the box office against a $15 million budget. So it's like $5.000. Exactly. Yeah. So it didn't problem. So I can bring up DC movies.

Yeah. Critically and audience-wise, it just was people hated the thing back then. That's crazy. Let's watch this clip. Yeah. Over the years, people have asked me about the thing because on its release, it was not particularly successful

with audiences or fans, but years later, because of home video and so forth, it got to be known a little bit better. But my reaction, I was pretty stunned by it at the time, because I made a really grueling dark film, and I just don't think audiences, in 1982 wanted to see that.

They wanted to see E.T. And the thing was the opposite of that. The thing that disturbed me about it was that the fans turned out hating it so much. There was a famous magazine back then called City Fantastique, which was loved and hated by various directors, and they had a cover story

that said, is this the most hated film of all time? which didn't do a lot to assuage my ego, but I'm very proud of the movie. I've always loved it. It's one of my favorite of my own films. That is heartbreaking to hear. I mean, he is so proud of it, and it was so hated when it came out.

It just, it astounds me. It absolutely does. I mean, the reviews were terrible, and until, like, we got out of the idea of, like, Spielberg and these, which you see in my background here. These are some serials I have. You don't have this lovey-dovey feel. Well, Grandpa, I have a good point, too. This is coming off

of Alien, too, which is interesting. Right? But like, I didn't think about that. Yeah. I mean, Alien is also fucking great. I can't lie. I mean, I can't, I can't lie. Alien is also fucking fantastic. But it's a different kind of horror film. It's a different, like, it's a different beast, right?

But maybe that's two of the two. I don't know. I still like I can't fathom it Like watching it now I don't understand What you would like about this movie Yeah I just don't again

I think a lot of it came down to timing I think it really was the time the movie released And what it was going up against You hear that all the time When movies come out with like a Marvel blockbuster And they just tank And it has a lot to do with your release date and then it has a lot to do with those, you know, writing these reviews and whatnot.

And he just got ripped apart. I mean, to the point where, dude, like, he says this film ruined his career. He was never taken as seriously after this movie came out. And people thought, you know, this is it. Like, he had his one shot and he was done. I wonder, sorry, now that I'm thinking about this, like, I wonder to, like, the only that I even point to, And this is something that, like, I think we appreciate, right? I think people probably appreciate it, you know,

is because the thing is so, the actual monster in this movie is so non-coporial. I mean, it says caporeal, but like it's so, sorry, I'm trying to find a world. Like, it's not a set thing. It's, I can keep you some word thing. It's not a set being, right? It is this, like, really, like, it changes all the time.

It's not this, like, like, an alien. Like, we look at the other horror movie that Grant brought up, like, you have alien. right like alien like you understand what that monster is you see that monster that monster makes sense you can you can understand what it is to fear it and fight it and like you can get into that mindset right or you even look at like et which is not a horror movie but like that alien makes sense and this alien does not which is what i think is fucking brilliant about it but like there's no like it doesn't it's so outside of our concept of what it is as what it is of something to fight or be in contention with,

that I wonder if that comes into play, is it's like, well, this is so fucking out there that it doesn't even, like, it doesn't even make sense to us as a storytelling apparatus at the time. Because, like, it doesn't make sense that alien would be so successful, but then this wouldn't, right?

Because, again, I will stand by, I mean, you can all hate me now. I will take Sigourney Weaver's main character over Kurt Russell. I think she's a better written character. character. But aside from that, Kurt Russell is great. But there's just like a less, because I think he's doing something a little more complicated. Like, Sigourney Reaver is like, she's a pinnacle hero, right?

Like, you put her into that, she's an underdog, it makes her a pinnacle hero, even if she is still those themes, right? Fighting against an alien, fighting against place and fighting against people, right? She still has the same three themes. But she is so likable and so. so well-written. I mean, she's one of the best, that Ripley's one of the best written female action characters, and we look at this genre, in my opinion.

So she's so easy to root for. And like Kurt Russell's character just isn't, I like him, he's charismatic. But it's not the same kind of like hero. He's not the same kind of hero. Then put up against a non, like, understandable villain, right? I think it just

it's almost like too smart in some ways. Or is it? Maybe that's part of it. Like, It's harder to like, I don't know, to engage with it in the same way. You're muted. I was just having a, you were just having a conversation with yourself. No, what I meant to say is I agree with you. I think it was, it went over people's heads.

It was ahead of its time. You had like kind of the tail end of the Cold War happening still. And like that could have played into it too, like this fear of like, you know, the red scare, blah, blah, blah, blah. there's so many ways you could put this movie in the context of why it worked and why it didn't and I think that's what any good film does and I think that's why like people in the chat said we're still talking about the thing today

Yeah, I mean like me are just getting introduced to it And then it holds up right? As a film, it still holds up I think that's better than 99% of the horror movies out there right now I can tell you that much. Yeah, I mean you rewatched I remember again my brother was like you've got to watch it So I'm like, okay, you know, because he loves his 80, like my brother's like a true child of the 80s.

And so, and he's got good taste in my opinion. So, you know, I watch and I'm like, oh, yeah, this shit, like, sometimes I watch, like, he made me, he's like, you got to watch Fright Night. And I was like, oh, yeah, Friday Night's okay. Like, it's okay. Like, you know, I get why you liked it. Like, I like it. But like this one, I was like, no, this shit holds up.

This shit is, like Andrew said, like it just, you read watch it. I watched it again and had a whole different like, I was like, wait, you know, like, my mind started like spinning on who is the first person to be the alien. But there's all these things that cover us, which we've talked about that I think just aren't utilizing film. The scene fade out, right? That's another thing that just where I think we appreciate it. We're like, oh, that's great, especially as people who have theater backgrounds. But I could see someone watch them and being like, that's stupid. Why'd you do that?

Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. It's interesting. Well, you know who did love this movie? Two people. The first one we're going to briefly go through is Chris Carter of the X-Files, so much so that he made an episode of The X-Files titled Ice, which, dude, if you haven't watched it, go watch it. Were you an X-Files fan? I don't know if I'm not like you. X-Files scaled the shit out of me. So I was like, I watched it like with David Broth. Okay. They did an episode called Ice. It was in the. first season, I believe, and it was in homage to this film. I want to play a quick promo of when that episode originally released. I think it was back in 1993. Deep beneath the Arctic Circle and ancient terror sleeps. Nothing can survive for a quarter of a million years.

It was their first mistake. Trying to stop it could be their last. The X-Files don't watch it alone. Put it down! Friday at 9, 8 Central. Dude, how much do you miss that Friday at 9? Oh, love it. Don't watch it alone.

One of the best episodes of the X-Files, but clearly, like, down to the dog, down to, like, the Antarctic sort of feel to it. Just a total homage to it. I highly suggest people check it out. You mentioned just how, like, fucking, so sorry, not on X-Files note. Just how fucking good Julian Anderson is. like that woman has come into her own. Like I think when that show, any people are like,

oh, who she? And now you're like, no, she's fucking brilliant. She's incredible. I also have a big crush on her, so I just, I have a talent crush and an actual crush. Don't tell me. Who doesn't? My wife doesn't. It's fine.

She was even like, she was even pretty, not bad looking as Margaret Thatcher, too. She's good. And every, well, that's thing when they did, she played Eleanor Roosevelt. I'm like, she's too pretty to be Ellen Roosevelt. That woman. Yeah. Nothing is on a Roosevelt. Brilliant woman.

But like. historically was not a looker. Yeah. And she just, she just says, I don't know, she did it. She did it.

We could get to a whole episode on Julian Anderson. We should. back the X-Files, Ian says. That voiceover to you was great. I love it. Um, Nick, how much more time do you have, buddy? I got like, I got like, I got like, five minutes. I got me five. Okay. I got you for five. Okay. I got you for five. Perfect. Um, one more clip from our very good friend who absolutely. love this movie. We didn't have him tonight, but he did send us a message. Is it Dennis? It's one of his favorite movies. Oh, you're going to go ahead and play the clip right now.

Let's hope me be. Hi, everyone. My name is Dennis Callow. I'm a photographer and a filmmaker. And I'm also a YouTuber now, I guess, because I make documentaries about horror films and put it up on YouTube. And one of my favorite films that I just covered, there's part one and part two that's on my channel right now, is the thing, which is what you guys are talking about right

now. And the reason why I love this movie is not just because it is a complete and total masterclass and masterpiece of filmmaking, but there's a really sad story that comes along with it. And the story of John Carpenter sort of being called a hack after this movie was made. And it's kind of incredible to think about that now in hindsight. But there was a lot to with time and timing, which I talk about in my series, that affected the film and that affected him as a filmmaker. Other than that, this film is just a masterclass in tension and dread and winter horror, which is my favorite type of horror.

I love cold weather and I love cold weather horror because it just adds another layer cake of tension in that. And when you get a bunch of guys in a research station in the Antarctic, who have been going start crazy with nothing but like computer chess and whiskey to keep them company, you're going to get a nice little recipe for disaster there. But it's really just a fantastic, fantastic film. I can't say enough about it, but I do say enough about it on my YouTube channel with the documentaries that I made on the film. So I hope you enjoy this discussion.

and I'll give it back to Andrew, Nick, and Ryan Sprague, the king of the hour. Take care, fellow believers. I love him. So much. I'm all about logrolling people that I'd like. So I logrolled Andrew as a brilliant filmmaker. I log wrote Eric, who's here as a brilliant filmmaker,

who I've been lucky enough to work with. Ryan and I have made a movie. That dude, Dennis, you guys, go check out his stuff. He is, check out Ryan's podcast with him if you haven't. seen that when we all chatted. He is a great man, a great filmmaker, and loves himself some horror in a beautiful way. Um, absolutely. Go check him out because he's great. Go check him up. There's a link right down there, guys, in the show notes for Dennis's two-part series on the thing. Go check it out right now. His Halloween part three, which I had not seen to that, is also brilliant. Season of the Witch.

Yep. Yes. Brilliant. He's an awesome guy, guys. Be on the lookout in the future for projects, maybe having to do with Dennis and Nick and myself. More to come on that. My shirt might come off. You never know. You never know. You never know. I mean, really,

God damn, it does come off from everything I did. It came off in my film too. I know. And your sister thought it was hot, which I'll never let you forget. God, don't remind me.

It's a great shape. That's a great shape. Nicholas Westmeyer. I know you got playing. Can we do the last one that's over? Can we actually do that? You shouldn't have Chris Mawson. Yeah.

It's his favorite video game. Absolutely. I got to go watch it. I'm probably going to watch that next. I'm just going to message you about doing a side thing. Okay. This should be monthly, right? Guys, chat?

Should it be monthly? Should we do a monthly movie review, guys? I'm also here. Look at that face. Look at that face. You know what will get us some super chats? Take that vest off, Mr. Westermeyer, if you will.

Oh, what's a fan for you today? This is my fan for you. I got the same here. Looking good, buddy. Look in wintery. I love it. Hey, before we go, any last words on the thing that you want to leave the audience with tonight? I, you know, I can't sound as smart as Andrew or you.

I think it's a great film. I think I really do. I agree with everything that Dennis said. We used the word masterclass a lot, and I mean that. Like, it is a damn near perfect horror film in what it is. Like, in the genre that it's doing and what it's trying to accomplish, it stands up really well. It was enjoyable in multiple views. which I always think is another thing about horror films.

If you can go back and rewatch a horror film when you know the plot points that are happening and it's still good, that's when you know it's well done. Because horror that doesn't have rewatchability, not that it's not enjoyable in the moment, but I think doesn't have that lasting impact. And this definitely is one that, like, you can keep going back and revisiting it and, like, picking out stuff and making, like, thoughts about and trying to figure out what's happening. And I think it's just in that way, the fact that John Carbenter is not considered, I mean, I know he is, but anyone would ever think he's a hack. It blows my, blows my mind. There's like one John Carbord movie I don't like. And I should go back and rewatch it just to make sure that's true.

Well, and this film makes me want to go back and watch everything he's done. I haven't seen that many. I've seen the Halloweens. And that's about it. I've seen vampires, which is a whole thing. That's the one. That's the one that's like, I need to go back. When I first was like, what, though? I'm sure I would find some stuff to appreciate about it. I heard the fog is really good, so I got to check that out. And I haven't seen They Live, which I heard is another brilliant, brilliant film as well. So I'll definitely have to go check those out. But Nick, where can people check out everything you're up to, buddy? And yeah, give us any updates.

So for me, so you can find me primarily on Instagram, which is at and Westemeyer. I'm on Facebook and Twitter. I'm very not active on Twitter. and Facebook I'm active on, but, you know, but Instagram is probably best. Also, for my own log rolling, you know, somewhere in the skies, if you want to check out the movie Ryan and I worked on,

please do it's on his YouTube page and also on, what's that site, Vimeo. That one, it was something that we spent a lot of time, a lot of love on, but also I love baking, so if you like baked goods. And then Voyage Theater Company,

which is a New York-based theater company that's always producing new works. and Ryan and I have worked with them before. So go over, give them a like on Facebook. We'd love to have you. But yeah, Instagram is where it's at. Absolutely. Yes, Voyage Theater Company was such a pleasure working with you guys.

And Nick and I come from a theater background. And the thing is a straight up play, in my opinion, which I appreciate it so much about it. It's 12 Angry Men in the Antarctic. In space, with a giant alien monster. Yeah, what else can you ask for? Oh, you're good. All right. I have to go be a parent now.

Thank you, buddy. Thank you for having me, Ryan. You're great. All the people who came, thank you so much. Yeah. Keep looking up. Is that what it is? That is.

You got it, buddy. Oh, you can find me in your podcast when I was doing voices. Absolutely. You'll hear Nick very soon in some upcoming episodes as well. Thank you, my friend. I always appreciate your time,

value your opinions, and we'll talk soon. Thanks for having me. Bye, everyone. All right. Take care. Bye. And then there was one. My huge special thanks to Nick and Andrew, both fathers and have a lot going on.

It's still a little early on the East Coast where they are. So they got kids. They got stuff to do, but they gave us their time tonight to talk about the thing. And I'm just going to say, this is now one of my favorite horror movies. I absolutely loved it from start to finish. Everything about it, the writing, the direction, the special effects, practical effects, I should say. It's just a brilliant, brilliant film. I don't, again, I don't understand why it wasn't received at the time as well, but it is now.

And sometimes that's what happens with movies. They don't really gain traction or get their legs until decades later when you can take it out of the time that it was made in and when it was released and all that stuff. And look at it with new fresh eyes. And that's what we did tonight for you guys. I hope you enjoyed this review of the thing. This will be a film I go to every winter now to watch. So there's that. I do want to share a few things before I let you guys go here tonight. See if I could pull this up. This was a poster that Grant LeVoc in the chat made.

Grant, I cannot thank you enough, buddy, for being here tonight. I know it's really late or early in Australia right now. So thank you for being here, man. Thanks for making this fun little poster with me taking over as the helicopter pilot. I absolutely love it. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. And to let you guys know about what's coming up on somewhere in the skies, we have a new episode airing this Monday. It's going to be a brand new episode of Witness accounts, where you, the listeners, call in and tell us your UFO stories. And we have, we got some good stories coming your way in that episode, guys,

coming to you Monday. We have a other UFO podcast host that a lot of you are familiar with telling their UFO story on the show for the very first time. We also have a Navy servicemen who had five different triangular UFO sightings over a naval base in California. So be on the lookout for that episode. Coming to you this Monday,

it is available right now for our Apple premium subscribers and our Patreon subscribers. So if you want to hear that episode early, you can do that right now at patreon.com slash summer skies or you can become an Apple premium subscriber. You just go to your Apple feed,

and it should be right at the top. You just click subscribe, and it should take you there to get the early edition of this episode. And bonus episodes. I'm dropping a ton of new bonus episodes over on Apple subscriber premium and also a Patreon. So check those out. Excuse me.

Again, guys, still getting over COVID. So it's been rough. I'm not going to lie. But I had to do this tonight. And let's see. What else do we have? Operation Saucer and the UFO Island will be our episode the following week where we travel to Brazil to look at a ton of UFO cases in Brazil. And on the Patreon and Apple premium subscriber feed, we'll have a bonus episode called the Mystery of the Lead Masked Euphologists.

A crazy, crazy mystery that happened in Brazil that involved UFOs and two gentlemen. who were unfortunately found dead. And who went to investigate this case, none other than Jacques Valet. So that episode should be premiering on the bonus feeds on Patreon and Apple very soon. So be on the lookout for that. And I think that's it, guys. I think that's all I have for you. Thank you so much for joining us tonight on this very special edition movie review of The Thing

here at Summer in the Skies. Thank you for joining us. Thank you to our super chats. I really appreciate the support, guys. All of the money that you donate to the show goes right back into making it bigger and better and everything in between. So that is always appreciated.

Again, if you want to support the show, you can do that in the super chat. You can become a YouTube member below, or you can join our Patreon and our Apple subscribers. My special thanks to Nick and to Andrew, and I'm going to leave you with a little funny clip that I put together here for you guys. And other than that, I'm just going to say, as always,

keep your feet on the ground, but never stop. Wow. Mess that up. Let's take that again. And action. Keep your feet on the ground, but never stop searching somewhere in the skies. For the thing. Have a great night, guys.

Thank you so much for joining us. Take care. Greetings, everyone. Ryan Sprague, your host of Somewhere in the Skies. For over seven years and more than 400 episodes, the Summer in the Sky's podcast has always been free to listen to, but it's not free to create. So we offer several ways to help support our efforts and get rewards in return. If you listen to the podcast on Apple, you can click the subscribe button at the top of your Somewhere in the Sky's feed to become a premium Apple subscriber. Or you can join our Patreon campaign with several tiers available.

Both of these options give you the same benefits and rewards, add free episodes, early access to the main show, and bonus episodes and content. Help keep the lights on at the Summer on the Skies HQ and help us continue to grow by becoming a Patreon subscriber at patreon.com slash somewhere skies. Or by clicking the subscribe button at the top of your Apple feed. Thank you for your continued support. and keep looking up. Hey guys, Ryan Sprague here from Somewhere in the Skies. And tonight we're going to be reviewing the 1975 film, The UFO Incident, about Betty and Barney Hill.

And joining me is none other than Andrew Sanford. See you on the other side. This is Somewhere in the Skies with Ryan Sprague. What's up, guys? Ryan Sprague here again from Somewhere in the Skies. And like I said earlier, we're going to be talking about the Betty and Barney Hill UFO incident, which surprisingly, I haven't done a full episode of the show on yet. So I thought, who better to bring in than my good, good friend here in New York City?

He is a TV writer, a screenwriter, which we're going to talk about at the end of this episode, and just an all-around amazing, amazing person. And he is skeptical of the UFO question, which is what we desperately need in this field. So it's going to be a lot of fun to break down this movie tonight and the alien abduction phenomenon with him. So without further ado, let's bring him in. Andrew, welcome back to somewhere in the skies. I almost don't appreciate that you outed me as being skeptical right at the top because I've seen the YouTube comments about me before. And I don't want people to lose their faith in me right off the bat.

You don't have to be nice. Just don't talk about my glasses because of that. Okay, just be nice. No, yeah, do it, ransom. Let's rewind. I'm going to start the intro over. No, I'm just kidding. I'm kidding.

I'm going to say hello to everyone in the chat. What is up? Cindy, we've got NFSTR Z-34. What's up, Justin? Benji is here. Lisa Grant, Skinwalker dressing. Jason Faye. Welcome, guys.

Yeah, isn't that a good one? I love that name. Skinwalker ranch dressing, I think. Did I say that wrong? I did. I did. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That makes more sense.

Now I haven't become death is here. David Blaine. What? Ooh. Interesting. We were just talking about magic. We were talking about magic. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

The Copperfield. No Blaine stuff. No Blaine. Nice try. No Blaine. This is a Copperfield show. I can say that officially. I'm wearing one of the,

one of the somewhere in the sky's t-shirts, which you can purchase at Tea Public, I believe, still. That is correct. Thank you. You can get this handsome. You're such a good model. I also have the official somewhere in the sky's mug right here. I just, yeah.

Oh, I love that. That looks awesome. Who did that artwork? So this was a gentleman that did a few different ones on my site. His name is Ben Scarborough. He's an incredible artist. Did he do this one as well? He did not do that one.

That was a gentleman in, Oh my gosh, where does he live? I believe Denmark. This was one of the first ones, too. Yeah, that was one of my first shirts. So thank you. Thanks for doing that, my man. T-public.com, everybody.

The public, T-pubba somewhere in the skies. I thank you for having me. I am very excited to talk about this movie and to hear about the case. As I told you beforehand, you had done your due diligence and sent me all this wonderful stuff to read, which I did read a little bit of.

And then I think somebody puked. And then I had to clean that up. Actually, no, I shouldn't say that. My kids, so I have a two 13-month-old twins. Yeah, we should probably say that. You were not the one who puked. I was not the one who puked. My wife was not the one who puked.

She would appreciate if I clarified that. I did not get to read the extra stuff. But as people who may be familiar with me on this show are, I love learning stuff from you. while I may be a skeptic, while I may be somebody who needs, yeah, just not there, just not there. I would love for, I think my thing is always I would love for something like a spaceship. Who wouldn't? That would be awesome. I think that's just not. I just don't. I personally do not see that happening. However, I always love listening to you because you're passionate and you do your research and you talk to people and you get this, as you've always said, human perspective out of things. I'm excited. I just thought, like, you know, well, instead of trying to read through that while I'm trying to get some kids to eat squash, which they do eat squash pretty happily. I would just wait and listen.

And maybe some of the people who are watching as well may be not as familiar with the case and they can learn along with me. And we will keep an open mind and all that good stuff. Because based on the movie, I have some thoughts. You and me both, brother. I have a couple thoughts. just a couple. Well, let's see here. Now I become death as there's a Betty and Barney Hill movie.

Yes. So that's what we're discussing tonight. This was a made-for-television movie, actually. It aired on October 20th, 1975, on NBC. And yeah, this was as, I'm going to say it right now, kind of as accurate as you can come when it comes to adapting certain events for television or movies. when it comes to UFOs.

A lot of people, Andrew, you included, were introduced to the Fire in the Sky movie. And that is a huge departure from what supposedly actually happened to Travis Walton, the locker in Arizona, so far as him coming forward after the movie came out and being like, yeah, like none of that actually happened. They wanted to make a horror movie.

They wanted to set it apart from other movies that had come out at the time about abductions. So they kind of straight up, like, went with a horror-esque aspect. And that's really not what he experienced. But with this movie, as we're going to talk about tonight, a lot of this dialogue actually comes directly from the transcripts of the hypnosis sessions that both Betty and Barney Hill went under with their abduction experience. So, I mean, we're getting like, we're literally getting it from the mouths of the people who claim that this happened. And I'm actually going to play a little later. some of the audio clips from the actual hypnosis sessions, which are, they're, they're, they're tough.

Even in the movie, they're pretty wild. Even in the movie, they're like, they're intense. There's some good. And again, that has to do, I think we'd be remiss if we didn't mention that in this movie, playing Betty and Barney, you have Estelle Parsons who, for me, she's done a million things for me personally, maybe for some others. I know her best as the mom on Roseanne. and James Earl Jones is in this,

a younger James Earl Jones. And it's, they're incredible and they make a lot of stuff really work. And also, so I was going to tell you this before, I would just want to get this out of the way because I'm too darn excited. The director, Richard A. Cola, directed a lot of television, like a lot.

And it's always like one episode, like McGiver, Chips, Wizards and Warriors. Miami Vice. Miami Vice. But he directed the original Battlestar Galactica movie. Yes. After this, just a few years after this.

Yep, yep, yep. And then directed, I probably, probably the pilot maybe more of the television show as well, of the original TV show. So there's just, it's, and then with the writers, they went on to, like, right, right. one of them wrote like children of a lesser god i think um and the the other one wrote like yeah bob hope special like there's just some like it's interesting to look at like a tv movie which i even think at the time would have garnered some kind of stigma but eventually like you know tv movies can be hit or miss and see just some heavy hitters like this like it's

it's it's i love seeing stuff like that i love seeing people like you know these people almost involved went on to have very solid careers some even you know way more than that jane jrille jones just had a theater on broadway named after him yeah um so there's just like some it's just awesome that all that was involved just for a tv movie on you know well and you know i think that kind of goes to the credibility of this case uh now this is a case that a lot of people in the UFO field when it comes to abductions, myself included, I am a skeptic believer and I have interviewed hundreds of people who have claimed to have been abducted by aliens, but I'm not going to flat out say that I buy it, you know, 100 percent, the people that have spoken to me, I believe they

believe this happened to them, but did it actually happen in the reality as we know it? I couldn't tell you. But this case, Andrew, is really one that I turn people to turn the skeptics too to look at and be like, huh, because first you have this dynamic of two people experiencing it. A lot of these cases, it's one person claiming they were abducted, kidnapped by aliens, experimented on, brought back. And, you know, there's no one else there to really corroborate the story. Here you have a couple. And we will talk about that couple in just a little bit, under different regressions and together, but first separate, telling very strikingly similar stories,

which is controversial, and I'm sure we can dive into that as well. But you did mention the writers. I do want to also add that one of the writers on the screenplay was a gentleman named John G. Fuller, and he actually wrote a book. He was the first to actually make this story go public. Wow.

It was featured in a ballroom. Boston newspaper, but this book was the first time that this story really broke and went international. And Betty and Barney Hill became like, you know, names across the world, not just in the United States. And John wrote a book called The Interrupted Journey. And he would go on to also help write the screenplay because he was part of the original investigation of this case, meeting directly with Betty and Barney Hill, you know, garnering relationships with them. And really they put their trust in this guy to do their story right. And the book did incredible so much so that there eventually came this movie,

not too many years later. How like, what was the visibility like on this? I mean, I know, like, obviously it must have been pretty strong. I've got a movie. Like, I'm trying to think of something else to compare it to that I've had experience talking to you about. Like, I think communion was like, wasn't communion a big seller? Like that book?

That's the one with the gray on the cover. Like, was it that kind of big? Like, was it like, was this something that everybody was kind of like, you know, when they say like literally everybody or was it more of like a like it was, you know, it was popular. Yeah. To an extent. Douglas Spragge is here, by the way.

I just want to say. Hey. My father. Thanks for joining us, Dad. Appreciate you being here. Hang around, dad. Hang around. This story gets pretty crazy.

We got Winston here from Australia as well. Let's see. We got Jake here. awesome guys thank you thank you time is it in australia right now good question it's got to be sometime in what i don't feel are they ahead of us or behind i believe they're i believe it's two days from now over there oh my gosh yeah you're living in the future you're living in the future grant is too here grant's here from australia hello and yet i'm not getting i'm not getting any answers about what time it is in australia we've got two australian let us know in the chat

nobody because because look again i'm not i'm not googling unless i'm looking up the IMDB for this movie. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's what it was. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Let's go with that. What was your question? I, thanks, Doug Sprague. You got me all frazzled.

About how, like, like how popular was this? Like, how, like, like, are we talking like really,

really huge or was it more like? I mean, honestly. I know that's a tough question. This was like the first case. Yeah. This was the first case. I'm, like,

this is one. put the gray alien into popular culture. The image that Whitley Streber has on his book, that went crazy as well in pop culture. But these two were kind of the first to really bring this story forward of alien abduction. So when you say first case, you mean the first recorded American case of alien abduction?

Yes. To go on record and really go public, I'm sure there were others deep in the, you know, 1961. Yeah, dude. It did. Like even, when was Roswell, 57? 47.

47? 47. Nothing, nothing between 47 and 61, even after like that got into everybody's. Right. I would even think there would be some people that would lie about it. Right. So we have the, throughout the late 50s into the 60s, we had the, what is kind of coined the contactee movement.

You had a lot of these Space Brother stories where people claimed that they were visited by aliens who would bring them on their ship and bring them to, you know, Venus and bring them back to Earth within seconds. Or these people would go out to Joshua Tree in the middle of the desert in California and like channeling UFOs and aliens and talk to them. But this whole idea of aliens

kidnapping, like unwillingly by the humans, taking people and experimenting on them, really came forward with this Betty and Barney Hill case. Yeah. That's fascinating to me. It's pretty interesting. I would have expected, I don't know, like even, like in the early 1900s at least,

like when that stuff was like popping up in Pult novels and stuff like that, like War of the World, like even around War of the World's time, nobody ever, that's so, sorry. I'm just I'm just that's but this is pretty crazy man I know I know well and again like we got to think you know this is 61 so we're living in the the Ate the atomic age and what let's I guess let's kind of paint the picture um yes please and welcome we're featuring the New York City sirens in this episode as well apologies to everyone out there 61 so we're kind of in you know the threat of the Cold War. We're on the brink of a nuclear threat. Hopefully that's not what's going on outside of me now,

which is startling because, you know, we're living in an age right now where the thought of nuclear threat is bigger than it's been in a long time. So I do wonder, are we going to see an uptick in UFOs and this idea of abductions happening again? We won't get into that.

We won't get into that. That's for another episode. but this idea of others, of others invading, of others having more power than us, of others just doing things against our will. This is something that will play out in the Betty and Barney Hill case. So does the time period have a lot to do with this? Absolutely, because I would also say that we are very heavy in the civil rights movement at this point. And speaking of others and people not wanting people.

to get more power than they have and things of that nature. I just think that that was also on a lot of people's minds at this time, and I believe will be very relevant to this particular. And especially, again, at least the way the movie presents it. I do think from what I read in a little bit that I did read, it seemed like that is out there as well. But yeah, yeah. So here we have the actual Betty and Barney Hill.

I did want to, before we get into the movie, this is them and this is the actual couple. And like we mentioned, the civil rights movement, this was an interracial couple in the early 60s. So as you said, you can imagine this was not easy. They also lived in New Hampshire. So I'm sure it was even harder. And that is kind of where we start this story. Let's kind of, I guess, we'll start from the beginning with the movie. Let's move to our next slide here.

So September 1961, we kind of start the movie where, like you mentioned, Betty played by James, excuse me, Barney played by James Earl Jones. The self-fars is playing Betty. They are with their dog in the car, and they're going down this road looking for something. They seem to be obsessed with trying to find a certain road that they're going. were on where they don't remember something that had happened to them. And constantly they find themselves to keep going out and out to look for this, this road and try to bring back these memories of something that happened to them that they

just don't seem to remember. And that's kind of where our story starts. Yeah. Yeah, wasn't it like they were driving someplace and all of a sudden they're like 15 minutes away, even though they had only just started driving? Yes. So we have what was called missing time, which is a phenomenon. on that was coined later on by a alien abduction researcher named Bud Hopkins.

And this happens with a lot of quote unquote abductees. They feel like there was time missing between something. Either they black out and wake up somewhere else or they're just missing chunks of time in their life that they cannot account for. And within those gaps in time through such things as hypnotherapy and regression, supposedly real memories are brought to the surface of what could have possibly happened. And that's kind of what we see play out in this movie. Betty and Barney end up going to a psychiatrist and a gentleman named Benjamin Simon

and try to retrieve the memories of what happened to them. But it's rough, man. I mean, this couple is just like at each other's throats because they both know something happened, but they don't know what. what and they keep kind of like bickering at one another and having these really hostile arguments about you know why do we keep doing this and we got to move on with our lives and and this and that and this and that so like all right we got to talk to someone and they end up finding this doctor and um he puts them both under hypnotic regression and lo and behold this is where

our story plays out of betty and barney hill which we'll get to but um yeah anything you want to cover before we really get into the meat of all that. I, well, I think I'm trying to remember when they showed them having dinner with their friends. Was that before or after the psychiatrist? Now, the movie, we should say, is a little choppy. Now, we don't really know. We kind of jump between timelines of, is this from the past?

Is this in the future? Is this the, like, what's going on? So that's a little critique I have of the film is I. I wasn't exactly sure how the story was playing out at certain times, which could also play into the fragmented memories that they had if the writers and directors were really going down that route. But what you're referring to was a dinner party that they had at their home. And I believe this was after the event because we really start to see the two going each other. I knew it was after the event.

I just didn't remember if it was after they, because we're going, right to the psychiatrist. I didn't want to like not bring that moment up. Oh, gotcha. Gotcha. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because that's when we get the first, some of the first bits of the like racial tension going on between them. Right. And how he

says something about those white people are like the white, and she gets offended that he lumped her in with these other people, these other white people. But she is like saying that she's different.

I just I I it was it was a really interesting I so I am a half white and half black my parents are mixed and I have always been kind of fascinated by mixed relationships mainly because I love them but I also know that there can be like there was a time where it wasn't easy and I think this is a great I think this movie shows that in a very effective way again that's a lot of that is the actors involved as well but I think it's just getting across something that coincidentally enough at the time that we were able to handle a little bit better in like a public television kind of way it didn't feel forced it didn't feel hokey it didn't feel like a movie of the week it didn't feel watered down like it felt like a very real conversation that they were having I think she did that very well I think everybody in that scene handled that very well, but I just, I just love that. And again, like, I do think it, there's a little bias on my part, I guess, but there's also just this idea that I do think that's what the movie is pushing at the end of the day, because I think it's one of the scenes that

even slightly illustrates the movie's bias towards this being a shared hallucination from the two of them, brought on by, possibly brought on by a, um, an incident or like a hated a hate that's a hate like a hate crime or something like that but also or just the pressure between the two of them building and building and building and just kind of exploding at the same time and then maybe some kind of shared psychosis like randy quaid and his wife yeah yeah um not to make light of it but yeah that was a good comparison for sure no no I want to thank Donnie. Yeah, Randy Quaid wishes.

Yeah, right. I know. Oh, God, what is up with that guy? Where is he even anymore? In a bunker somewhere. I think he was going to run for office somewhere. Oh, God. Please know.

Donia, thank you so much for the super sticker. I really appreciate that. Thank you, Denny. Super chat is open, guys, too, if you want to help out the show. Put your comments up here. We'll answer your questions the best we can. Yeah. But yeah.

Before you, before you ask again, yes, the shirt I'm wearing is available at tpublic.com. Tpublic.com slash somewhere in the skies. I love you. Well, okay. So let's talk about the, they go to their first session, hypnosis session. Let's see if I have a slide for that. Try already. Nothing more reliable.

Than hypnosis. Yeah. Well, let's talk about that. Let's talk about that. So we have Benjamin Simon, played by a gentleman by the name of Bernard Hughes, a very well-known stage actor and film actor as well. And does a great job of playing this psychiatrist who is extremely skeptical about what is eventually uncovered in these. Sure. No, and again, not a bad actor in the book.

bunch. Like this is all everything, this, this movie is really well made T to B. Like it's, there's, there's a lot of good stuff going on. Yeah. Yeah. So I guess what we can do is let's talk about the meat of, um, Barney's first hypnotic regression. This is where I think James Earl Jones really shines in these hypnosis scenes. Absolutely. There's when, when he starts to, when he's trying to grab for his gun or where he's just like when he's just like terrified there's also something i'll say exciting because i can't think of another word but it's also like kind of frightening and it's just like i guess titillating maybe and i don't know um but he's a big dude and to see somebody that big get that scared is scary like there's an extra impact to that you're seeing

somebody who's afraid who you think could take out a whole room full of aliens if you needed to. Like it's, I don't know, like it's just, he's, that's a big even at one point, like, he was walking around shirtless and I looked over my wife, I was like, this man was a beast.

Like he was huge. I think he was like 39 when they made this, something like that, but he's, I just, he's, yeah. So I, that, those scenes were so effective. And again, it didn't feel hokey or weird. It didn't feel like it felt very honest

and they really felt afraid during both of them. During both, like it's, I think that's what helps make the movies successful to begin with. It's also, I can see why the case

is so alluring as well. Not just on a extraterrestrial level, but on a human level. Like you feel for these people because no matter what, they're going through something. Yeah. You know, even whether it's real or not, there's something, there's something wrong.

And neither of them are, once it's really brought up to the surface, neither of them are really ready to handle it. And it's, I'm sure everybody's had something like that in their life. Right, right. Well, yeah. And so I guess with Barrow, You know, the hypnosis brings out kind of the beginning of the encounter. Now, they hear this weird beeping noise.

They see these lights over their car. And then they stop and they see a craft come down from the sky and these beings coming out of the forest towards them. And I actually, Andrew, now, like we mentioned, a lot of these hypnosis scenes were actually from the transcripts from the hypnosis sessions that were recorded and are available to the public. And, you know, I would highly suggest if you haven't seen this movie, go watch James Earl Jones deliver this model. Yeah. And look, it's a yeah, and it's, it's an hour and a half.

It's on YouTube for free. Like, yeah, yeah, nothing to lose. And again, it's not, it's not boring by any stretch of the imagination. Like, it's, there's, there's. No, have you. Ripping. It is. Have you heard the actual tapes? I have not.

Okay. I'm going to play a partial section from Barney's first hypnosis session when he saw the beings. And I want to get your thoughts on the other side after you hear this. Cool. All right. What did he tell you? Stay there and keep looking. Just keep looking and stay there. And just keep looking. Just keep looking.

Could you hear he tell you? Oh, I got to pull these binoculars away from my eyes. Because if I don't, I'll just keep staying there. Could you hear him tell you this? Oh, no. He didn't say it. You felt he said it. I know.

You know he doesn't. Yeah. Just stay there. He's saying to me. It's all right. I'll take it my head. All right. Pull the binoculars away.

God. Give me a stress. All right. Pull them down. Run. Holy men, I'm in the house. God. It says my God.

Give me a stress. I got to get away. Oh. Babe. All right. All right. All right. Calm down.

Calm down. I'm driving. I got to get away. Yeah. So initial thoughts. I mean, just hearing that one section. As we had said at the top, my mind is usually one that tends to go towards a skepticism. To me, to see, like to hear a, I have heard that tone.

I have heard that terror. I have heard that horror before, and it can come when you are, when somebody does something to you. based something harmful something hurt like you know and and that is racially motivated and this

we're in 1961 they're driving down the middle of a highway if I had to guess what probably happened if I thought because my mind would not go to aliens is that somebody probably stopped them and did something to them that

they mentally could not reckon with and both came up with it because I do hear that terror in his voice, but I don't, that doesn't immediately scream alien to me. And again, like that's, if that's the story that they're telling and they were the ones that were there, and it's always something where like,

I am never saying, I'm never calling bullshit necessarily. I think it's just, I think there is probably a more likely, explanation. And I think it's something that happened to a lot of people back then, especially people who dared cross that racial line. I get it. I understand. Now, let's, I guess, well, that's a good way to kind of set this up. Let's just play Betty's section as well. No, you can see in this. And I might need another detail filled in for me, too, because something I was having a hard time with.

in the movie itself was the flaming car or the car with the flames on it that was like chasing after them. It seemed like, yep, yep, yep. What was, is that in reference to something that happened or is that? So in the beginning of the film, uh, we get this weird choppy scene, which actually was very, when I realized what it was, it was very startling. Um, it's a group of like greasers. It's like straight up greasers, uh, white teenagers in their car. and they saw this interracial couple drive by them. And their immediate reaction is to get in their car and start chasing after them

and giving them shit about it. And as this is happening, Betty is actually having snippets like remembrances of aliens chasing after them. So that was pretty effing terrifying. And also goes exactly to your point. We don't know what's up from left, excuse me, up from down, left from right, white teenage greaser or alien, which I think really plays into what you're saying. Yeah, like that, because that's what I was thinking. I was like, well, and hearing that explanation of it, it almost sounds like, oh, this, somebody is committing a hate crime against her against her.

And she's, because of it is remembering this other hate crime that happened, which she has since, cloaked in an alien abduction. I think that's where my mind goes with that. And I apologize to anybody who came here for something a little bit more lighthearted. I know. It just, it's just on analysis. This is not a fun story. No, it's really not.

Again, this is very traumatic no matter what happened. I mean, look at the, look at her face. Yeah. I mean, something happened to these two. I want to talk a little about before we play her audio, the aliens that are shown in the movie. I thought that was great. Oh, my God, man.

Look at these things. They're so vapor-wavy and, like, simple. And I just love the big weird eyes. Like, those are great. And look, sometimes it's all about what you don't show. Like, they're covered in shadow for a good chunk of it. Like I thought that was really effective. I thought they did a great job with the practical effects.

I mean, almost no very early computer generated effects in this movie. They built that spaceship. They built this set. I mean, that forest looks like it was built in a studio, which I love. Look at that fake moon, too. It's so, like, simple. And it reminds me of like a comic book almost. Sure, sure.

Yeah, pretty cool. Yeah. No, I know. Like I said, there's a lot of good craft that went into this. Like, it's just, I'm interested to hear more about the actual case. I'll put it that way. Right. Because, yeah.

Yeah. Well, let's see here. Nali and Become Death Asks, what initially triggered their belief that happened in the first place? Again, I think it was in the movie really shows us. The hypnosis, right? The hypnosis and also just this feeling, this void in both of them of they came home. We should mention this. You know, they come home the night that this event supposedly happened.

And Betty's dresses ripped and torn and Barney's shoes are all scuffed up. And, you know, they've got like weird marks on them. And they just don't remember. they don't remember what happened or or they didn't want to remember what happened which again is what we've been alluding to all night so far um but yeah that was what kind of initially triggered them to reach out to a psychiatrist and then try to unravel these these memories um and then with betty her first hypnosis is like extremely yeah oh yeah vivid and um we see this one image up there at the top of the aliens kind of doing weird tests on her and stuff.

And you know what? Let me play the audio, Andrew, because that's kind of where I think I got the clip is when she's talking about what happened once they're on the craft. Now, they're dragged into this craft and, you know, Barney goes one way, Betty goes the other, and they don't even really know what happens to one another during this. So let's go ahead and play this small clip of, um, um, and, you know, barney goes one. Betty's actual abduction experience, according to. And the examiner has a long needle in his hand, and I see the needle.

And it's familiar than any needle I've ever seen. And I asked him what he's going to do with it. And he said, just as simple, just as a simple death to help me. And I ask him what. And he said he just wants to put it in my navel. It's just a simple test. I don't know. It won't hurt.

Don't know it. Don't know it. And he said, no, it won't hurt. And he sticks a navel into my navel. And he says, I'll be all right. I won't feel it. And all the pain goes away. Again.

Like, it's hard to listen to this, no matter what happened. But, I mean, what do you think? What do you think after hearing that? That she was likely sexually assaulted and whatever happened to them. It's hard to, it's hard to hear it any other way, personally. Like, and I think, again, that they just had a really hard time dealing with it. Hi, Robert. I'm glad you're here.

that they had a real hard time dealing with it, even saying that it's something like that happening to her belly button almost feels like like changing up a slight detail, like almost like in a way to make it feel better for herself as to what happened to her. Right.

And yeah, yeah, even the language, even with what the guy is saying to her in the moment, like it won't hurt. Don't worry about it. Like it's not, you won't feel anything. like it just all feels um too familiar unfortunately and i know that there's a possibility for the brain to just not you know to kind of like shut down to protect you from things like that when things like that happened to you um yeah it like and i didn't even really pick up on it as much or that aspect of it no i think when i was watching the movie i thought i was like is this

some kind of like abortion thing did she have maybe have an abortion and couldn't deal with it or But then now, like, hearing, especially hearing her there on the recording, I'm like, I think she was, I think something else happened. I understand. Now, this is what a lot of skeptics turn to in terms of the alien abduction phenomenon. These are memories of childhood trauma, of sexual abuse, of, you know, anything to put a mask over what actually happened. And I completely understand what you're saying. my only, not even defense, what I want to do, Andrews, because I understand everything you're saying, and it could very well have been a situation like that. But there is a lot of evidence that has been brought forward about, you know, kind of what happened.

Does somebody have the book? Did somebody end up getting their hand on the book? Let's talk about that. So Betty says that these aliens, when she was aboard the craft, that they gave. her a book that would explain who they are, where they come from, why they're doing what they're doing, and a lot of this stuff. They kind of like, they kind of, you know, slide it over to her and be like, all the answers are right here. And then they're immediately like, say, take it back. We talk about it.

This is the only way that I can prove that this happened. Why are you doing this? Why are you doing this? And the other big thing was they showed her this star map. Yes. where they are from and where we are in relation to them. And I thought this was pretty funny. In the movie ended the actual hypnosis session,

she says that the alien said, do you know where you are on this? And she's like, no, not really. There are people on my planet who know where all the stars are and planets and stuff, but I'm not really one of them. So you probably picked the wrong person. She's like, but where are you guys from? The aliens straight up like,

if you don't even know where the hell you are on this map, you're not going to understand where the hell we're from. So we're not being a bother with this. You're wasting our time, putting you back in your car sort of situation. So I will say that was a detail that peaked by it because she redrew the star map, yes? Yeah. So. And let me get to that actually.

Because my question, that is like, is there a specific way to draw us? Like, is there a format for a star map? Oh, this was her drawing? So her drawing is on the top left. After hypnosis, this is the sketch she came up with of what she remembered. And that was in 1963. Astronomers in 1969 discovered this star cluster near Zeta reticuli 1 and 2. And just look at how similar it is.

And most of those stars were not discovered until years later. So this is something that a lot of people turn to and be like, huh. Like how the hell could she have? known that. Look, no, that's, that's, to me, that's more like the fun stuff. Because this is, there's, there's really is no, like, there's no good way to explain that. Right. Right. Like, how do you, and I'm sure there are skeptics out there who can, um, explain it a way somehow. Like, maybe she had some, some knowledge of it beforehand or, I was about to say, was she pretence, uh, college educated? I believe so. I mean, she was an extremely intelligent woman. So,

I was, um, Barney was also extremely intelligent. He had like a crazy IQ from what I recall. I'm realizing now that I don't really know much about their lives before all this, aside from the fact that they're both divorced. Yes. So they were both divorced. A Betty grew up in New Hampshire, her entire family for century, over a century. She got that accent. Yeah.

It's crazy, dude. Estelle Farsits knocks it out of the park too. Almost to the point where you can. understand some of it. Reminds me of another person from Massachusetts who's going to be featured in an upcoming episode of someone in this guys. Hey, that was a teasing a little something, something there. Cindy says, didn't scientists recreate? Never mind, Ryan's on it.

Yep, we got you. We got you, Cindy. Pinser says, makes a lot of sense. Good points, I think, talking about what you were saying, Andrew. But yeah. So the Star Map is definitely one of the. more convincing aspects to all this. There's a few other things that if you want, we can jump to in terms of the line.

Cool, let's do it. I think people should check out the movie. I think of it. But I also think, like, you know, I think we've gotten into all that we can really get it. We talked about the aliens, you know, aside from that, it's just kind of rehashings at the case. So I would love to hear more about the case itself and ask some questions on my own. Well, I bite this small piece of Twizzler that was on my desk.

So here we have the University of New Hampshire actually set up an exhibit at their school about this incident. It did make New Hampshire on the map. It put them on the map when it comes to the whole alien thing. And what you see here is a... Do they still have that up? I believe so. It might still be up there. That is the actual address.

If it isn't, if I am mistaken, someone might correct me, it is a replica. The bust is of the alien that she supposedly saw. You've got a few other things in there, a sketch that she did, some letters, I'm sure, that were about the case. But this is pretty interesting. The school thought it was credible enough to make this. Let's see what else they have. I think I have a little section on that here. This is in the Diamond Library.

and yeah, it's got journals, essays, newspaper clippings, slides, films, audio tapes, all relating to this case. And did she go to the University of New Hampshire? I don't know that. I don't know. Someone in the chat might be able to fill us in on that. But yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm not too sure about that. But the dress, let's talk about that for a little bit. This was another piece of evidence.

Apparently, after the night that this event happened, Andrew, she, She thought, you know, something's going to come of all this. I know something happened. Maybe I'll figure it out. I'm not doing anything with a dress. And she kind of rolled it up. And you see this in the movie too. Rolled it up in a ball and put it in the closet.

And, you know, didn't really bring it forward until people started asking for evidence of what happened. And she brought out the dress. And it had when they did like tests on it, they found some sort of substance. on the dress that could not be explained. They had Ohio State, I believe, look at it, their scientists. They had police look into it, other scientists as well. And there was some sort of residue on the dress that could not be explained in terms of a earthly explanation. And if you don't mind, last clip I'm going to show, I promise.

No, no, no, no, no, please. Okay. While we're on evidence, I'm going to show a clip of Kathleen Martin, who's actually the niece of Betty and Barney Hill. And she's kind of taking the reins on the case and kept it alive and kept the legacy of her Brent and uncle alive too with this thing. And she's done an investigation on it herself. But I actually found a clip of her talking about the dress with a local news station.

I believe either in the UK or Australia. But let me go ahead and play that. Don't know what time it is in Australia. Australia listeners. Let us know. Grant, you're in the chat. Let us know. Yeah, people in the chat.

That's going to mean nothing to hear. that people hear that does a podcast. Betty's dress was torn in several locations. There was a two-inch here in the zipper fabric, the stitching at the top of her dress, a one-inch here in the thick zipper fabric. The dress was torn

from waist to hemline, and the hem was deformed down on one side. It indicated that something had happened that Betty could not remember. It had been in fine condition when she put it on that day. She folded the dress up when she arrived home and put it in

her closet knowing that she would have to repair it. The next time she took the dress out, it was covered with a pink powdery substance, not the entire dress. Some of it remained blue, but the pink powder discolored the fiber in the dress and degraded the fiber. Did you have it analyzed? What was it? It is one of the pieces of concrete evidence. It has been analyzed in at least five scientific laboratories to date. And the finding is anomalous. They have found proteins on the dress. They have found oils on the dress.

They know that they did not belong to Betty. The dress is most deeply saturated with the pink substance in the areas where Betty stated that these non-human entities actually touched the dress. Is it of this planet? They were not able to determine whether or not this was of this planet. certainly some of the material on that dress was. There was dirt. There was bacteria.

There were those sorts of things that would be on any article of human clothing, particularly after it had been sitting in a closet. So, yeah. I mean, that's Kathleen Martin, the niece talking about it. They found this pink residue that couldn't be explained. And there are also people in the chat are mentioning. I did not mention this, and this was not talked about in the movie. there were marks on their car.

There were radiation tests done on the car, which I- No, they mentioned the marks on the car in the movie. Yeah, on the back of the car. I think, her she's, yeah, but they mentioned something being on the car. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah, but yeah, no, I love how subtle the New Hampshire accent is. It's almost like a Massachusetts accent, but it only comes up. No, I appreciate that she's still doing that.

And I also think, like, the stuff, I love, like, you know, physical evidence when it's something that can be with it that's kind of like hard to explain. Like, you know, because again, rips and tears and address, it could just go along with the things that we've mentioned already. Once you add in an unknown substance on there, things start to at least get a little bit muddier. Was it a substance on the back of the car or just like mark, like, I believe it was like

physical markings. I don't know if any sort of, if it was some sort of residue. or something like that. But I do recall, and again, correct me in the chat, guys. I'm not an expert on this case. I can fully admit I haven't looked into it as much as others. I believe they did like Geiger countertests, and they did find trace amounts of radiation higher than normal on the back of the car.

She does that with the compass in the movie. Yes, that too. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. She has one of my favorite lines, which is my sister said the compass is basically like a Geiger meter. because, you know, you just kind of, you talk about those things with your siblings. Yeah. I think it was a sister.

I could be misquoting that, but it was just kind of so funny to me. I was like, somebody casually told you that a compass works like a guy. Hey, okay, zombie saint. Look, look, look, look, look. We got a time. We got a time. We got a time. 1219.

Thank you, Grant. Grant. Thank you, Grant. Wow. Well, no, it's 12. It's like noon. Or noon. No, there we go.

Come on. Yeah, no, right. Australia is three hours or two hours ahead. What do you do? My math is horrible. I'm sorry, guys. It's getting late over here on the East Coast team. Thank you, Grant.

Says the guy would not twins and, you know, has to be up in the morning to work. All the matters right now is Grant is my favorite Australian and I've met Hugh Jackman. So I did too. I actually met him two weeks ago. I'm working at Music Man on Broadway. He's doing the same thing. He, he, he, he, he, he hands out lottery tickets to employees at the theater. Yep.

On Fridays. Sundays now. Sunday's amazing. What a cool dude. What a cool dude. He's an awesome dude. Wow. That, we got off track there.

I don't remember where we were. I'm just so happy to know what time it is in Australia. Yeah. The biggest mystery of this episode has been solved. We're done. Good night, everybody. Good night. Um, let's, um, I guess, Andrew, because again, man, I don't want to keep you too long.

again. Oh, no, no, no. So I let me see if I have any. Yeah, what questions do you have? I guess so we know that he died of a stroke. And she mentions a stroke earlier on in the movie, but the line kind of like went over my head. Was there ever an implication that she predicted his death?

I don't believe so, but we do see in the film that Barney Hill is constantly thinking about his mortality. Yeah, absolutely. Again, is this, this has to do with, he was depressed after this event happened. He had these thoughts of like a nuclear fallout from the Cold War happening. He thinks he's going to have a stroke because it runs in the family. And he, as we find out at the end of the film was right. He died at the age of 46, unfortunately, of a stroke died in 1969. And then, I mean, look at this portrait of Betty.

I mean, 85 years old she went to. She's just smoking that cigarette, dying of lung cancer, which she would eventually die of, yeah, in 2004. It is, it is. But I mean, dude, until her dying day, she stuck to this story, which is interesting. It's interesting. Sure. But yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. I guess I don't have as many questions as I thought. Like, the tapes kind of make me feel one way, but I also like, you know, people, was there? anything, was there anybody in particular that publicly like came out to rebut this? Anybody

of that time? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, you have Carl Sagan famously tried to debunk the star map at one point. I believe that's something people would have to look up on YouTube. He sort of added an explanation

for that, but also there was another famous skeptic at the time named Philip Klass who didn't believe any UFO sightings were legitimate and everyone was crazy and cooks and stuff like that. So he obviously would hop to these abduction cases and be like, see, these are the psychopaths or these are the crazy people making this stuff up. But yeah, there was a lot of detractors, as there should be. But one thing I do want to mention, actually, I totally forgot about this.

And we got a small part of it in the movie, Benjamin Simon, the psychiatrist, he meets, this is hilarious. he's at like a beach with a dude in full uniform Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah I loved that scene That was great He was like well I need some information It was good but it was just kind of it was you're right It's like I call my old buddy from the high ranking member of the Air Force To just tell me if this could have possibly been a UFO

I like I like seeing the psychiatrist like kind of do his due diligence I was like he's just kind of like you know And you mention this this film is not out to convince you this happened in this was a result. They actually did the opposite, which I really Yeah, it was really refreshing because there's even even with the way that they present it, which I do think has a heavy bias towards it being some sort of hallucination or something. They are still, they, the things that they are presenting are still terrifying and they are still like, you know, you want to believe because of Stel Parsons is a wonderful actor,

you do want to believe this woman. Like that's, that's, as I think is, be the hard thing with a lot of this kind of stuff. You want to believe them. Exactly. As the famous X-Files poster says. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So here's a question for you. Were there, because I thought the book was an interesting detail,

but then now that I'm thinking about it, maybe it's not as, like, unique as I took it as. But were there, if this was the first, were there, like, copycats? Were there people who, like, basically kind of said, like, almost the same thing happened to them? Wow. What a great question. Yeah. I mean, this again, this was like the OG story.

So you start hearing after this happens and this comes forward. Dozens and dozens of people claiming the same thing. We saw the same beings. The same thing happened. We were kidnapped and brought on the craft. So again, chicken and egg scenario. Are these people telling the truth or who was inspired by what? And we should, I should mention Andrew.

and, you know, this is going to piss a lot of people off. But Betty Hill did have a history of being interested in UFOs prior to this incident. What? What? Oh, that blows the whole that. I had to put you full screen for that. Of course she knows how to draw a friggin' star map then. What?

How interesting? Well, I wouldn't go. I wouldn't go that far. How interesting. I can't draw an effing. StarMap and I've been studying UFOs. And whose fault is that, Ryan? My parents, Doug Sprague, was in the chat.

Didn't sign me up for StarMap 101. No work ethic. If it was 1961, you would have been drawn Star Maps all over the place. So we have to acknowledge that. She did have an interest in it. I would, I will say,

I would need more detail in that. Otherwise, I would strike it. That is something I would need to know. like, look, anybody could be interested in something. But is this something that, like, that being said, my threshold is very low. Like, if she's read, like, one book, everything is disqualified. I understand that. And again, like, but at the same time, I'm just playing devil's advocate.

Like, you can have an interest in this topic and still have a legitimate experience. A lot of people could argue that, too. Absolutely. But it doesn't help. It does not help the situation. It doesn't. And I would almost, I would be sooner to dismiss it now than I would then. And the reason I would say that is because now I feel like it is more, our pop culture has been more saturated with UFO stories and UFO things.

Like it's harder to not, Doug. But it's harder to not know what a UFO. foe is at this point. So I would almost like, that's where I would have to be like, there you go. Okay. Fair, Robert. That's fair, Robert. Also, sorry, Andrew.

I just wanted to say thank you to Mark for the super sticker man. Thanks for being here. He's a huge supporter of the show. Oh, thanks, Mark. Um, so, oh, shoot. I totally lost my train. I thought there. Just this, I, this, you know, kind of preconceived.

Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, yeah. So I think, I think, but I think back then, especially for it being them to be so few and far between, it's almost like, oh, I'm going to break new ground here. Like, we're going to get attention this way. Well, no, and I'm sorry. I don't, because I don't want to say that because I do think these people went through something genuinely horrible. I do really believe that something bad happened to them. Yeah. I just don't think it was UFO related. But I do believe. believe that something. It's like for what it's worth, I do believe they went through something horrific. Totally understandable. Oh, is that on the actual highway where it happened? Yes, that's where it happened.

They have this marker there that you can go see. They're very proud of this event, as many small towns are of UFO events. You know, Roswell has a festival every year. Flatwoods Monster in West Virginia. Hopkinsville Goblins, which I think you and I talked about at one point.

They've got like a little, little marker. Yeah, that's right. This can make it sound, these events. So, of course, they're going to embrace it. You know, if it brings people in and brings tourists in, all the power to them. I think it's great to do something like that. A lot of people think it's exploitation, but hey, you know, we live in a capitalist society. That's all we say.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Let's see. Grays are not chill. Someone said, yeah, they are not. They are. They are scary. Grays are sauce, if anything. I love this. Steven says, if I get abducted when I wake up, I'm going to say, I'm from Detroit. Give me the keys and no one gets hurt. Going to land the ship on Ryan's lawn. Stephen, thanks, man. Good luck finding a lawn in New York City. Yeah, yeah. Queens, you might have a little bit more luck. Not as much as you would think. But yeah, what is this coming? here skinwalker ranch dressing i really want to see a parody of people being interviewed and looking crazy for regular daily experiences he was outside my house touching things insert blurry photo of guy

turning off the guess like skin wear skinwalker ranch dressing just as a one pro tip when you get to pitch that hot man you keep it to yourself you don't put you got i know i'm stealing you don't put that you go make that you go make that you're talking to two writers here our job is to steal Ryan is not speaking for me on that one. Oh, no, no, no, I'm just kidding. It is not, it's not, guys. We don't steal. We borrow and we are inspired by.

What else do I have here? Oh, I met Kathleen Martin at a UFO event, actually. Yeah, I got a little photo of me here with her and Dr. Lynn Kitts-hi as well. She's another woman in the UFO field who saw the Phoenix Lights incident, Andrew. I don't know if you're familiar with that case back in 1997 or 96. One of those two years, 97, I believe. She took some crazy video of a huge UFO event that happened that thousands of people saw.

But yeah, I got to meet Kathleen Martin and talk to her all about her aunt and uncle in this case. And look, man, she believes it. She, of course, sticks by her fans. family and has done a lot of investigation. So all the power to are. Yeah, no, there's something very noble about that. I can't like, you know. Yeah.

Can't be mad at it. Absolutely. Absolutely. I think really the only thing left to talk about, I guess, would be Project Blue Book, the official U.S. Air Force investigation unit did look into this case. Interesting. Yeah, I think that's what that's seen in the movie kind of represented. Sure.

the one where the Air Force guy on the beach, where was that? Talking to his buddy, Benjamin Simon, that, yes, the Air Force does look into UFOs, and there's a 5% that we can't explain and that we need to look further into. And this guy even says, we looked at the Betty and Barney Hill thing and we can't explain it. We can't come up with a conventional explanation. But what I found really interesting, this was not in the movie. the U.S. Air Force did track a UFO on radar the same night that this event happened in the same exact location where they said this event happened.

That's a mic drop, I think, in terms of convincing evidence that something happened. There was at least a UFO there. And we have to remember, Betty and Barney Hill only remembered having seen something in the sky. Well, I think somebody said, and I think somebody said on the chat, they remember the abduction, but not the UFO, or like being on the UFO, but not like seeing it or anything like that. I think it was actually the opposite.

They did remember seeing the UFO. They did not remember the abductions until after hypnosis. Sure. I'm wrong. No, I said maybe, I probably read it wrong then. Oh, okay. Yeah, I'm wrong. Someone correct us in the chat.

But either way, either way. I know, I think that's, that's, that's, that's, hmm. And again, like, did Penny and Honey Hill somehow know about that? And then they were like, oh, we can use this to our advantage to create this, you know, concoct this story. There was a UFO. There's documentation. I don't know. Or, and allow me to play devil's advocate to my side a little bit right now.

When did the Air Force reveal that they, spotted a UFO that night? I don't know. I don't know. I apologize. No, it's okay. It's okay. I would just love to know when that happened.

Because if I was a government agency that was trying to keep people focused on stuff like that, corroborating a story like that every now and then might keep people invested and keep it. Because it's like, it's big. They're not saying, they didn't say. anything directly. They don't have to claim, like, responsibility for it or anything.

It's almost like the perfect kind of, like, tugging along, like, or like a little poke. Just like, oh, what a coincidence. Like,

they had this very part that was publicized, and we just happened to, I don't know, I think we may or may not have just absolutely spotted a UFO, like, or in that same area that same night.

That's crazy. Like, I don't know, moving on. Like, like, I mean, yeah, it could have,

have been Russian, could have been a Russian spy satellite, could have been a top secret U.S. aircraft. And when they heard that this interracial couple was going around telling people they were kidnapped by aliens, there's your cover story right there. That's going to keep people thinking all that stuff. And meanwhile, you know, look this way while we do this on the other. I don't know. That's, that's interesting. I didn't think about that. It's also one of those things where I just, I'm trying to, I want to make sure I have this date. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Just to make it, like, very clear, like, how fraught it was to be in an interracial marriage in 1961.

Loving, the Loving v. Virginia case hadn't even happened yet. Like, that's not until 1967. So interracial marriage was still, like, essentially outlawed in a lot of places. So, like, it's just not. Yeah, so it's just not great, not great. Yeah. So, but anyway, but, but again, that UFO stuff is mighty. That's a mighty big, that's a lot.

Yeah. I, again, like there is some interesting evidence to this case, and a lot of people still turn to it as one of the most documented and credible cases. But there's a lot working against it, too. I mean, like you said, a lot of what this sounds like was some sort of probably racially ignited assault on both of them in some way, shape, or form. You know, being dragged around scuff marks on Barney's clothes, ripped dress on Betty, like, you know, and not wanting to remember and this and that, like, it makes sense. Yeah. It does.

I'm not saying that's what happened. I don't want people to think, you know, that I'm immediately discounting this entire event. But these are the conversations that need to be had when it comes to something like this. And one, I think the movie actually approached in a very, a very smart way. I really respect them for doing that. I will say, I've been on this show quite a few times. I don't think we've gotten, at least with me, too nitty-gritty into like certain real cases or anything like that, aside from things based on movies here and there.

This is one of, and I've known you for at least 10 years at this point now, I think. This is one of those cases. This is one of the first ones where I'm just like, you know what? I don't really have an answer either way. Yeah. I know what I believe, but I don't, you know, it's pretty wild. It's something that it's like really interesting. and especially like the, like, I don't know, this is one of those first times where I'm like,

yeah, good. That's all I could ask of you, man. That's all I got. I keep an open mind. Yeah, absolutely. I love having you on the show because you are willing to hear me out and willing to, like, hear what people see and experience and think maybe, maybe it's possible. We have to look at all the other explanations first. Yeah.

And at the very least, even if I don't think that something was possible, I get like, like, like a there's often a lot of very human emotional stories attached to these things. There's a lot. That's why one of the many things that I love about your perspective. And that's the one of the reasons that I like your work and like your investigations is in your investigations into these type of phenomena is that you look for you going for a human perspective. I said at the top too. Like it's just that's that's the interesting part to me. And that I think what I love and what I love about this particular story is we still have that he that human ass. And that makes me, not more susceptible to like the UFOs, but like it makes me, like I said, I think I put it makes me want to believe them a little bit more. Yeah.

Right. So. I, I completely understand that. Again, I think, you know, this movie did such a good job of humanizing these characters. And that really has to do with the actors. They, these were, for a TV movie, these were top. Notch performances. They did their homework.

They invested all of themselves into doing this accurately for the real Betty and Barney Hill. No matter what James Earl Jones or Stel Parsons think of the case, they went into this movie saying, we need to tell the story according to what they believe. And that's your job as an actor. Like you are that person. You're not, you know, you're you're faking it, but you're not faking it. You truly believe this happened to you. So you've got to go into it that way.

And I just think they did. God, such an incredible job. I have to really praise the director, the writers, and the actors on this. This was my first time seeing the movie, actually. You know, having never watched it before, as soon as I thought about it, I was like, I got to get Andrew in on this. I got to see what he thinks of this. A is a movie and B as a credible UFO case. Credible being a very flexible word.

No, look, again, I was, I think this was, I would recommend this movie. I would recommend this case. I think there's just a lot. There's a lot to it that I think is really interesting. Yeah, we only unpacked a short amount of it. But listen, my man, we are going to wrap things up very shortly. Now I have become death, said, Andrew, if there's a case you really want to look into, it's the aerial school incident.

I'm actually, Andrew, I'm going to have the director of this new documentary coming on the show in a couple weeks. This was a case in Rua Zimbabwe in 94, where 62 school children witnessed a UFO land on their school ground. Beans come out and try to communicate with the children, get back in their craft, disappear. I've spoken to several of the witnesses to this event. As adults, they stick to this story. It's incredible. And we're finally, after like a decade of waiting for this documentary to come out, we're finally getting it in the next week or so.

So I would love to have you watch that and come back on and talk about that. But again, like, there's so many cases out there that people don't know about that don't really think about the UFO topic that I really just want to be like, look at this and tell me something didn't happen. Something. And I think that's true about the Betty and Barney Hill case as well. Sure. Yeah. Well, hey, my man, before we go, I have to ask you, as a screenwriter, is there anything you can tease about projects you're working on

or maybe a little, little movie that someone is having made? I don't know if that's public yet, but yeah. No, yeah, I think that's, yeah. Well, first of all, if there's anybody watching that's in New York City or is in New York City adjacent, this Wednesday, at QED in Queens and then this Friday at Duplex in uh off the Christopher street stop of the one train um I work with you're getting so hyper local it's yeah yeah yeah like it's just the easy because I'm not sure what every all the

areas always get renamed all the time um I uh basically I work with this theater company called random access theater uh that is and they do a series called the drunk texts which is where we take classical texts or current texts made classical and we uh translate and we have some drinks, play some drinking games, and do a staged reading of them. And I've adapted several movies for them where I did Ghostbusters and Halloween and also a New Hope and now Empire Strikes Back. And New Hope and Empire Strikes Back are both going up this week. May 4th is at QED in Queens at 1130 p.m.

That one I will not be in attendance. but the Friday one, if you come to see Empire Strikes Back at the Duplex, I will be playing Han Solo. You do get to see me in a wig. And come on by. I become death. They're fun shows. We play drinking games, and yeah, and I'll be playing Han Solo for the Empire Strikes Back one.

It's called the Empire Doth Protest. So there's that. I didn't even tell you about this, but there's, no, I won't say that one because I'm actually, it's not confirmed. good and then we'll talk about it. But yeah, I have a short film that will hopefully be dropping this year called Pay the Tithe, which is a horror short that I'm very excited about that I was, we're heavy into post-production right now.

I got to hear some of the first bits of the score yesterday, which was done by a good friend of Ryan and I's. And very, very excited. I'm excited for everybody to see it. I'm excited for, yeah, just all the work. Anybody I have had involved on the short so far has just brought every bit of themselves and every bit of their A game to it and just so much passion and hard work and creativity. And it's just going to make it even better than I could have imagined.

So it's very exciting. And I wrote and directed it. So it's just a nice little passion project. Amazing. I did get to see a rough cut. And man, I'm not just saying it because you're my friend and my colleague. but I was blown away by what I saw, so I can't wait to see the final product.

We'll have to get you back on to talk about it because it dives into some of the realms we cover here on the show. A little bit of supernatural, maybe. We won't go too much of the quality kind of stuff. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So we'll definitely talk about that. Awesome. Ooh, yes.

Now I Become Death Says, sounds interesting being a fan of horror. So you've got a new fan. Hey, thanks. man. You can follow me on the on the tweeters at Samford minus sun. Um, right underneath there.

Also the, uh, great. Um, there. Yeah, yeah. And my Instagram is half white son of a black man.

Which was the name of a pilot for a while. So if you want to, I also, if anybody, Ryan was on that quite a few times on that podcast. Uh, and several of the times were to come on and talk about horror, horror movies with me.

So if you want to hear me and Ryan, I think there are, You could fill up a solid 24 hours If you went and found all the times, Ryan and I have talked about movies via podcasts. We should. We should do a megastode where we just put them all together. That'd be pretty fun.

No, that was such a fun time. So definitely I suggest people go check out Half White Center of a Black Man archives. Shocktober. Shocktober episodes. You can listen to the other stuff too, but if you're looking for the movie conversations. Yeah.

It's on Stitcher, too, which I always have. And I only say that because if you have Stitcher, they have a really good search engine. So you can, it's easy to find stuff. Yeah. Yeah. For sure, man.

God bless Stitcher. I'm glad they're still going strong in the age of Spotify. They get my money. Stitcher gets my money. They're great. They're great. And they host our show as well. So thank you.

That's where I get the show. Somewhere in the Stitcher. Love it. All right, my man. Well, hey, I'm, I'm not going to let you go. I'm going to talk shop a little bit with the crowd here, but I do want to thank you for taking time out of your crazy, hectic life, both as an artist and as a father and a husband. And please give my family your best. And we will definitely talk to. Doug, you got my best there? Thank you, Doug. You said give my family your best, which I'm doing if Doug is still on the chat.

Or you said my, it doesn't matter. Anyway, buddy, I love you so much. family. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Thank you. That was a dumb. What an awful, what an awful note to go out. I could have said nothing. I could have completely.

Who are you, George Costanza? Jesus. Anyway, what a ruin. Nobody has to follow me. I just ruined everything. I love you, bud. I'll talk to you. I love you too, my man.

We will talk soon. Have a great night. Thank you, everybody, for coming and joining and listening fun stuff. Yeah. All right. Thanks. Ah. There he is.

guys, Andrew Sanford, one of my best friends here in New York City. We've seen and done a lot of things and it's so amazing that we can still connect, you know, in our adult lives and do stuff like this. The podcast is just an excuse to catch up with my buddies here in New York. So thank you to Andrew for taking time to do that tonight. We really appreciate it. My best to your family, Douglas Francis. Stephen says thank you for the review. Thank you. Thank you guys for checking this out tonight. If you haven't, you can watch the UFO incident from 1975 right on YouTube.

Just type in the UFO incident, 1975, and it should pop up. I know that's how Andrew and I watched it. And let us know what you think. Put your comments below on this video about what you thought of the movie, what you thought they did a good job with, maybe not so much with. And yeah, what you think of the Betty and Barney Hill case. Now, I know we touched on some controversial aspects tonight. And, you know, the idea that maybe this isn't all it seems to be or appears to be.

But, hey, it's an open case as every UFO case usually is. So, yeah, I'm glad we got to dissect that tonight. I'm glad that you guys got to hang out with us and do that. But before we go, I do want to talk a little about. this. This was a comic book called Blue Book, based on the project Blue Book, files and other UFO incidents. And we actually had Michael Oiming, the artist of this comic book about the Betty and Barney Hill incident on the show. So if you go back into the archives, you should be able to find that episode with Michael Oiming, where we talk all about the Betty and Barney

Hill incident and what inspired him to make this comic book series with a few other friends and colleagues of his and you can find it at readbluebook.com. The entire Betty and Barney Hill volume is done and out to the public. So go to readblubook.com. It's a gorgeous, gorgeous comic book. And I know I just talked to Michael. They're working on the next case. And they actually reached out to me to help consult on the next volume. So I'm super excited and honored about that too. But yeah, definitely check out this comic. They did such an incredible job with researching it and really conveying what Betty and Barney Hill went through,

just like the movie the UFO incident did as well. Titus and Layla are listening. Douglas Sprague says, those are my dogs, my family dogs back home. Please give them my best dad. Mick Gray says, you kick in in NYC, bra? Yes, I live in NYC, actually. So yeah, that's how Andrew and I met here in New York City in the theater world and we've just, you know, just become such good friends since then,

so much that he comes on this show as a skeptic and takes everyone's hit. So I love him for that as well. Um, comics are dope. I agree. I agree. I agree. Um, and last but not least, we have a new episode premiering in just a couple hours, guys, of somewhere in the skies. It is another volume of witness accounts, volume, volume 19. We're almost up to 20 volumes of witness accounts. And if you're not familiar with the podcast, this is a series that I do where I'm not even in these episodes. This is you.

You listeners and viewers of someone's guys come on and tell your UFO stories. And we had a really interesting collection of different stories for this volume that you're going to hear tomorrow. It is available right now in early edition for Patreon subscribers. So if you do want to become a Patreon member, you can do that at patreon.com slash somewhere skies. And with that, you get early editions of the podcast. You get bonus content and a lot of other cool stuff. We're going to do Patreon hangouts where we just hop on and talk to one another all about UFOs. But, yes, new episode premiering tonight or this morning, wherever you are in the world of witness accounts.

We go to outside of London to hear an incredible story of a UFO. We go to the Highlands of Scotland to hear several different UFO stories from a gentleman in Scotland. And all across the United States as well. We're going to hear stories of spherical objects following fighter jets. And what else? We got a really interesting triangular UFO setting that two brothers had in their home. And I believe it was Texas. So yeah, very powerful episode.

I hope you will check it out. You can get the podcast wherever you get podcasts. And speaking of that, please, if you haven't, rate and review the show wherever you get podcasts. I know Spotify now has a rating system, so you can rate it on there. Apple Podcasts is still the biggest platform to find podcasts and support independent podcasters like myself.

So please go to Apple and give it a five-star rating, a review, or give it an honest rating and review. I don't care. But yeah, please just head on over to one of those avenues and do that. It truly, truly does help the show. Other than that, let me see what we have here in the chat before we get out of here. Stephen says they need to turn the splash page into a poster. Absolutely.

He's talking about the Project Blue Book comic book. Oh, it's so good. So, so good. Let's see. Mark says, forgot to mention how much I liked my Tick-Tac attack and Food Fighter shirts I ordered from your store. Thanks, Mark. Thanks, my man. I'll show it one more time. Oh, we've got right here this incredible mug. Let me actually, I'll go full screen for this. The Tick-Tac attack mug by Ben Scarborough is in the shop as well. I know it's a little blurry. So yeah, I've got some really, really cool designs. in the store. I think I just released a new one actually, maybe a week or so ago. So you can check that out as well. It's a really cool blacked out document, redacted document, as many of the UFO

documents are that come out of the government. So yeah, you can check that out in the store now. We have sales all the time. So yeah, you can check those out. I think t-shirts are usually 35% off when the sales do happen. So go to tpublic.com. You can check out all our merch and help support the show in style. Let's see. Oh, Mark says, and your coffee blend. Mark, you're like my publicist, man. You're, you're, you're, you're, repin all of my merch tonight. Yes, I do have a coffee as well, the somewhere in the sky's coffee, which is available through black triangle coffee.com. So go check them out as well. Amazing roaster out of Arizona. And yeah, let me know what you think of the somewhere in the

guys coffee. Let's see. Robert says, great show. Thank you. Thank you. Cool merch. Thank you guys. Thank you for the super chat and super stickers tonight as well. I really appreciate that guys. Any support for the show goes right back in to the show as well to keep it going and keep it running. There's so many unforeseen costs that go with doing a free show every week. So that's at the Patreon and our merch store and all that step is for as well. So yeah, if you haven't, click like on this video, subscribe, do all that. done talking shop and promoting. That's all I got. So thank you. Thank you for joining us tonight to explore the Betty and Barney Hill incident.

We will go into it further in depth in the future. Maybe do a full, full episode on it. And finally, just cover this case in the way it truly deserves. But again, thank you to our guest, Andrew Sanford for tonight. Thank you to all of you for being here. And with that, I'm going to give you our little Patreon promo here and say good night. So thank you guys. Keep your feet on the ground, but never stop searching somewhere in the skies.

Take care. Somewhere in the Skies is part of the Somewhere Podcast Universe. Please take a moment to rate, review, and subscribe on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. To learn more about all of our shows, visit the SPU.com. What is up, guys? And welcome to a very special Halloween edition of Somewhere in the Live Stream, where we are going to break down the movie. No one will save you tonight.

Tonight, I say, here in the UK, it's 1.30 p.m. Eastern Standard for my guests today. So how they are reviewing a horror movie at 1.30 in the afternoon is beyond me. But I thank them immensely for doing that. I thank all of you for being here, whether you're on the West Coast, East Coast, UK, wherever you are, Australia. Welcome. Welcome. We're going to be taking your comments tonight, guys, getting your thoughts and opinions.

No one will save you this kind of sleeper movie. that came kind of came out of nowhere and has become kind of a cult classic for us here in the UFO field very quickly. But before we even get to the movie, I'm going to bring in our guests for today. You know them well. They do our movie reviews here every year

here at somewhere in the skies and somewhere in the live stream. And that are my, that are, that is my actor and filmmaker friends, Nick Westemeyer and Andrew Sanford. So let's bring them in. Gentlemen, what is going on?

You only see my hat? Yes, I can. All right, and the fighting none behind me? I love it. I love it, man. This is from my sister-in-law, she gets me. Oh, my gosh. That thing is a little scary.

I'm not going to like the face. It is. It's pretty terrifying. The face looks extremely hyper-real. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, she's ready. Bringing up really bad flashback of all my education. Yeah, dude.

How about you guys, but our nuns at my Catholic school, they were a little, a little punitive when it came to wearing hats in school. Yeah, I know. I know. I didn't go, I went to a public school, but I did

attend CCD on Sundays until I got my confirmation, and I primarily remember having a teacher that got really mad when somebody questioned, George W. Bush. I don't even know how he got brought up. But yeah, so that's what I learned about the Bible. Wow. Love it. Love it.

The name I didn't think would come up in this conversation, but it did. Oh, I'm only going to talk about Bush for the rest of the podcast. Fair enough. That's fair enough. Yeah. There are some, let's be fair. There are some religious undertones in this movie, which I think we can maybe touch on. A little bit of Allegory, maybe. but we'll get there.

We'll get there. Before we get to the movie, did you guys know about this? Had you heard anything about this movie coming out prior to me being like, hey, there's a new alien abduction movie out. I would love to know what you two think as filmmakers, as actors, as writers, and before I threw this pretty impromptu review session together,

did you know anything about no one will save you? No. You go ahead, Nick, because now I have to. I knew it was out only because I have another filmmaker friend of mine who's doing kind of like, like we used to do like a Shocktober thing, but he just watched his a bunch of more movies and then post just his review on them. And so this is one of the first ones he did. Oh, he was like, oh, I really liked it. So that's the only reason why I had known about it. And then you'd watch him probably like two or three days after that. So it had been on my

radar because of that. But otherwise, no, I'm also, I'm also admittedly a little behind of my scary movie watching. That's fair. I'm there you. I am. If you need me anymore. I work for a pop culture slash

politics slash a little bit of everything website called pajiba.com. P-A-J-I-B-A. And so I had seen the trailer for this ahead of time and was really new it was one of those things where actually I think I didn't see the trailer

what I think happened is I saw people start to talk about this about a month ago when the trailer came out and I was like ooh interesting and then I remember seeing that there was kind of an overwhelmingly positive response for it and if something like that happens

I will stop watching trailers or looking up things or anything like that and kind of just take the movie as it is sometimes that'll happen to if there's an overwhelmingly negative response to something. But when there's kind of no like middle of the road and like I'm not interested, I try to like cut myself off. So this one I did that for.

And then I think it's funny. I think I might have watched it the day you texted us about this less. So yeah, yeah. So I was, I was ready to go. Well, and I mean, let's just say it up front here. We're looking at like an 82% certified. fresh on rotten tomatoes right now. Pretty damn for a movie

like this that had no fanfare really, no real true marketing came out on a streaming platform which is something I want to talk to you guys about. And yeah, just kind of really came out of nowhere. And again, whenever

these alien abduction movies come out, and I know we covered, I think maybe two years ago the found footage film, alien abduction found footage films that we watched very scary, very, some of them brutal, which is this film as well. But whenever they come out, I think us in the UFO field are like, oh, no, it's just going to be another big Hollywood horror movie where the aliens are putting people down

and it's going to be torture. And when in reality, a lot of the abduction cases that have been on record as, you know, quote unquote, credible and whatnot. aren't like this. They're not like fire in the sky. That's like that. Or like this movie. So when this came out,

I think all of us were immediately a little on the defensive. And then I watched it. And oh my God. Like this, I, again, I know I'm kind of putting the cart before the horse, but I was thoroughly impressed by this. Not from a, not from a UFO researcher standpoint.

but as a film enthusiast, as someone who hopes to and inspires to create films like this someday, yeah, really blew me away. So that's kind of by my cart before the horse, but let's not do that. Let's start for the beginning, right? Let's get the old stream, or excuse me, the old... Great poster.

What do they call that? Slideshow. Yeah, right? Very good initial marketing, I think. But like I said, this came out on Hulu, and not everyone has Hulu. And this film, in my personal opinion, I think, needed to be seen on a big screen. Oh, see, I disagree. I think Hulu is the right place for it.

As you were saying all that, I think that, like, it's, well, anyway, I think that a streaming platform for movie like this was the right venue for it. Oh, okay. Which I can talk about as we get into the movie. feel that way from like a movie-going perspective. Cool, cool. Yeah, I kind of fall somewhere in between on that as well because it's, I also would have loved to see it on a big screen similar to Prey, which was also put on Hulu last year.

That also has a singular female lead fighting against monsters from space. So Lulu has clearly found their niche. But I do think that there is a chance that it wouldn't have reached as many people if it wasn't on a streaming service initially. I don't know how this would have done in theaters. I think, like, dubbed Tienoff that, like what Andrew said, especially with Pray, like, I would agree with Pray.

Like, pray I would have loved to have gotten seen in the theaters, but Pray still felt, maybe because it's Predator, maybe because it's this very, like, marketable, known franchise. Like, that, it feels more big budget to me in that way. It feels more like I'm watching a commercial, a Hollywood commercial movie. I know they did a ton of risks and different stuff, but like because it's The Predator.

This movie, to me, takes a lot of, like, indie risks to do a lot of risky, underlying risky filmmaking things that I think being not on a big screen, being on a streaming service, allows it that opportunity because you're not,

you don't have to cater to, like, bring in as much money, right? It's not looking for revenue in the same way. And so they can do a lot of stuff, which I'll talk about with that actor, I think for her especially who I think is great. It being a streaming service movie allows us to take

these chances a little bit more. That makes it. That makes a lot of sense. It does make sense in a very depressingly accurate way. I know. No, totally. There used to be a point where studios would take risks on stuff like this in theaters.

And it could probably surprise them. But I thank you, Nick, for being our studio representative. accurately saying that this wouldn't have had met enough money. It's true. I think about like insidious, right? Which made like, was made on like a really small budget,

but made like tons of money. And at the time, I think it was a pretty risky studio movie, right? But you still had like Patrick Wilson. You still have like some name names. And I'm forgetting her name at the moment. And like I know her from. Roseburn.

I would argue neither of them were very big names with that movie. At the time. Yeah. Yeah. Patrick Wilson, what did he done? He had done the conjuring. No, Conjure. Insidious was before that.

Insidious was before the conjure. I think as far as like bigger things are concerned, Patrick Wilson had done like Watchman. Yeah. And the real question is, had he done Phantom of the Opera yet? Yes. Yes, he had. Okay.

So, okay. So he had. And he had America. And I remember specifically for Watchman, Zach Snyder went about casting that movie, with actors that were like actors actors like not like no like not really named people for the most part um like you had jack your o'haley in there but even he was still kind of like a long-time character actor but it um it would i would i also insidious produced by james juan written by lee wannel i just don't think that one in particular was as much of a risk if that makes sense that's so yeah i get totally um yeah it didn't do many risky things as this did as a film yeah sure i think i think what we're all trying to get at is like there were no big names in this writing wise director wise acting wise um but uh kately dever who will get to our main protagonist had a very very challenging

uh mission in this movie which we will get to um it's pretty much the one thing everyone's really talking about with this movie um but let's let's give a little i'm going to give a little plot synopsis before we start really digging in. No one will save you. This came out, gosh, just about a month ago at this point on Hulu. This introduces Bryn Adams, a creative and talented young woman who's been alienated from her community. Lonely but ever hopeful, Bryn finds solace within the walls of the home where she grew up until she's awakened one night by strange noises from decidedly unearthly intruders. What follows as an action-packed face-off between and a host of extraterrestrial beings who threaten her future while forcing her to deal with their past.

I love that. That's a very concise thing. This is written and directed by Brian Duffield, who is known for Love in Monsters Underwater, which is the only one of his I've seen, and The Babysitter. Were you guys familiar with this guy's movies? I know the babysitter. That's not one that I've seen, but that movie is phenomenal. at all. Okay. Yeah, I have seen babysitter and underwater and

did not particularly care for either film. But I do think that underwater was less him. I remember the big, the spoilers for under, like I won't get into spoilers for underwater, but I remember very specifically, that movie felt like something that it was changed in post. That wasn't what it was

originally. All of a sudden there is this like Lovecraft angle that almost by the director's own admission is kind of like forced in after they filmed the movie. And this is, I will only say this because I'm about to say that I absolutely love, no one will save you. And I'm a big horror comedy fan. There were some elements of the babysitter that I found to be very racist.

So that was a little bit harder. That's fair. And it's kind of one of those tough things that just happens when you do in comedy. But at the end, he didn't direct. that either. You know what I mean? I think what we're seeing now. I've heard love and monsters is pretty fantastic. And sometimes when you write a script, especially for Netflix, which babysitter was written for, it's hand it off to somebody else and you're probably not involved in the slats, right? So, no one will save you. And I've also heard love and monsters is very

good. It was kind of like a surprise hit. I think it's nice to see this guy just really fully control of what he is doing. Like this, this movie has a kind of confidence that I think personally those other two movies do not have. And he's done a lot of work too. He's a really smart guy. He's really funny. And I, yeah, I don't think the other stuff was his fault. So I was very excited to watch this movie and just kind of enjoy it.

It's so hard when you see written and directed by, because you're immediately like, okay, well, what could this have been? how could this movie have done if it was seen through the vision of someone other than the writer? So I always think it's very risky when someone writes and directs their own film. But I think you're right, Andrew. I think with this one, this was him in complete control of the story he set out to tell with not a ton of studio backing. You had 20th Century Fox, obviously. But we're not talking, you know, this control like Netflix.

has over sorts of things like that or huge, huge Hollywood studios. They kind of just let him make his movie, which 20th Century Fox is pretty well known for doing. It's kind of letting their creatives go off and do what they want to do, at least in the history of the stuff I've seen from that. And that's the whole point where we'd come back earlier about like where the medium, where we get to watch it, right? And I think that that's where like streaming is lucky because, again, you can, you can

be like, all right, fine, go make this. And listen, if he makes this movie and it, and it doesn't do well, and you're like, it kind of sucked, then it lives forever floating on Hulu with a small audience and maybe really likes it. Like, they're, I mean, I know there's always, but their risk report ratio. Maybe. Maybe it lives forever. Maybe. Maybe. Maybe. But like, the risk reward is so much. Go watch Willow the TV show. Oh, yeah, don't hurt me that way. Which is also Disney, by the way. Oh, don't. Which is also a 20th century. studios is, I'm just saying,

you just, how did you get to finish it? I was like three episodes away from finishing it and didn't get it done. Anyway. Welcome, welcome to Willow Remorce Tower. Yeah, Willow Memorial here.

So one thing, can I this doesn't matter about the storytelling. I loved, I again, I loved the costumes in this her costumeing in this film. film I just love. Like she came out and I was like,

that's cute. She looks cute. Like they just, whoever the costumes I did a really great job with her. Because one of the things about this actress that I, that I like is she's one of the actresses who's going to look way younger than roles she plays for a very long time. Yeah. Because she still looks like a teenager. And I know she's in her 20s in this because of something I'll bring up later,

which made me feel old. But I thought the customer did such. a great job at like tying her aesthetic into the house that she lives in like making the way that she dresses and the house were all to meet characters in this film and I thought that was fantastic and that was like a huge kudos to that design team um and I just I really maybe it's because I'm teaching design right now in my class but I just noticed that I'm like she she looks great aesthetically looks really good it sets a clear vibe for who like she is or who she wants to be um And her, the costumes just popped, especially at the beginning, end at the end, which I'm sure we'll talk about.

Yeah. Yeah. I feel like the aesthetic really popped, like bookended in terms of like how the movie starts, how the movie ends. And yeah, it was so colorful. It was so rustic. It was so, it really served, I think, the beginning of this story, which is we don't really know who this girl is. we just know that she lives in this big sort of farm, almost farmhouse. And she's very kind of, what's the word I'm looking for?

Isolated? Isolated, eccentric. You know, she's got a doll house. So immediately kind of like, hmm, this is interesting. Where is this story going? Especially when you know inevitably what is going to happen. Right. Well, and I think, too, Nick, I actually think it does do some stuff storytelling-wise

because they have to endear you to a character that we get details about very slowly throughout the film. Like, they have to give you on somebody's side while also hiding why no one is on her side. Because I think if they revealed, like, kind of the twist earlier on, which I think they easily could have and maybe a less confident, filmmaker might have. It would have been hard to be on her side while she's getting chased, I think. I think it's not the only reason you can. And look, there's also the, like, there's stuff that happened.

Like the thing, the big incident that necessitates her loneliness happens when she's like 12. And I think anybody would be like, well, clearly that was a mistake. But we're standing, you know, we're removed from the situation. Yeah. But it was a nice, you know, they spent the her like she's dancing by her. Oh, that's been making the food? Like, I love that moment. It was all stuff that was very,

um, you just kind of get on her side pretty quick, or at least I did. You just kind of, it makes you go like, oh, there's a fun, quirky person that's doing things alone.

And, you know, just, a year and a half, two years ago, we were all doing a lot of similar things. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. And, um, very cute yard. Her yard decoration? I'm playing. I think you guys

I think you guys bring up so many good points. You know, we're thrust into the life of this young, lonely girl who's, you know, writing letters that were not really sure why or to whom. She has, as someone pointed out in the chat,

a diorama of the town. It wasn't a dollhouse. Excuse me. It was sort of this really cool diorama that she made. So clearly she's very creative. She's a seamstress as well. She makes a lot of her own clothes. These are clearly things that she does to fill her time and essentially fill these voids in her life of loneliness as we will slowly find out why.

But let's kind of go there. Before we really even get to, you know, the crux of the film, we see that she's having a lot of trouble stepping outside of this bubble, of this home, of this. yard. And when she does, we get kind of our first glimpses of something's off. Like, I think she first sees it's the postman, maybe, or somebody who kind of She sees the postman and then she sees a neighbor

that just kind of like stares at her. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right. And you're immediately like, why are these people like so standoffish to her? What's, what's going on here? And that was the first moment where I'm like, okay, something's up. I'm sure we will slowly learn why.

And I'm trying to before, sorry, not to interrupt, but before she goes outside, there's been, I think, a little about a week or more since I watch this, is that, because we do see the letters, but then she, she said something about like, or she read something about like I thought it was my fault or like I still feel like it was my fault. So I had kind of started, I assumed it had something. thing to do with that, but it was still, you know, again. So just because I watched it last night, so you have that.

And then also I think in that beginning, if I remember, you see some of the pictures of her and her friend. So you are, you get this illusion. And then she does the thing, which again, the acting work that she does in this. When, you know, she's doing all the stuff around her house. And she, like, practices smiling, like, to be able to, like, get, right? And you see her stepping to go into the town. And it is just like, you can.

I mean, those little things like you're saying, do, are such a nice setup for what's coming later on. Yeah. I liked her so much. Like, as we've gone, even before, like, the aliens, like, I felt with this character so much. I got to the point in this movie where, like, I didn't care what happened.

Like, I got to that point, too. I was like, something bad happened. And if I don't find out, then I don't find out. Yeah, right. Because, I mean, yeah, at the front of this, this is a, quote, unquote, like, alien invasion movie. And I think that's kind of what

even I went in wanting. Like I was, and they waste no time. We've spent some good time setting up this character, but we spent more time than the movie did. I mean, these were very concise snippets of this girl's life before

she is thrust into something literally unbelievable. Great storytelling, because if you can do all that, I mean, it's really, especially with film. I think, Andrew, you can attest to this. Like, to do all that, like, that's one of the hallmarks of film, right? You can do all this storytelling really fast, do pictures and moments, and to get an audience to connect to her and to relate to her and to root for her.

With spending very little fat of the bone, like, really, you know, do not waste a beat to get you to, like, the action that's happening. Because it's really just her in this movie, for the most part. Right. I think that that the director did a just great job at that. It's executed really, really well. Let's get to it. So we, you know, we see that she has a pretty routine life of kind of whatever,

selling these dresses or whatnot on like Etsy or whatever. This is how she kind of makes her living. And then, you know, she goes to bed one night. And this is where it all starts to happen. You get this kind of prototypical beginning of an alien abduction scenario. Something, a craft of some sort, appears over someone's home or their light shows up in their yard. And then boom, we start to see shadow figures going past windows and, and whatnot.

She starts hearing things in the home, some sort of intruder. And it was very, very well done. I mean, this is how a lot of these abduction scenarios basically begin. But again, the film really waste no time with ambiguity. We're not going to see that this is like someone robbing her house. We're not going to see that this is like an animal that snuck in.

almost immediately, we are shown that this is an alien. So what did you guys think of the first, I guess, reveal? I was actually, and I was going to ask you about this as well, because I know you and I have talked about the image of Greys, specifically on here before, me being a little bit more of the layman when it comes to some of that stuff. And I thought it was a smart choice to not to go with some of, that is pretty universally recognizable as a design and then kind of doing variations on that design.

Because again, we don't have the time to be like, these are the clerks from Revalon 7. Like, we don't have the time to get into their mission or any of that and stuff. It need to be like, these are aliens and they are invading. So you go with the easiest kind of, you know, easy being a relative term. Yeah. The most recognizable design options and then kind of play with that as the phone goes on, which is very smart, I thought. And it does kind of, not that I think they weren't focused on that stuff,

but they were, like, the important part of this movie. And I think the better genre movies are this way is the story that it's telling about a woman dealing with a tragic accident in her past and dealing with kind of just being stuck that way. The alien stuff is second. theory to a certain extent. At least as far as like what their main focus is. So because of

that, I thought they just, that was a very smart reveal. I thought it was still very scary because I thought they look very, um, because I thought they looked scary. And I just thought it's really, um, it just kind of smacks you.

Like, you know what I mean? Like we're, again, we're, like you said, it happens so quickly. And then you're just kind of off for the races. And then, I mean, As soon as we see one of these things for the first time, she kills one. So it's like, there we go. Which is, like, I expected this to be one of those movies where they're hunting her throughout the entire film. And then finally she gets the comeuppance and escapes.

But no, like almost immediately we see almost the, I guess you could call it like the, the fallibility of this supposedly. advanced race of aliens coming to abduct her or whatnot. She immediately takes a piece, like you said, Andrew, from like the diorama and steps this thing straight

up at the side of the head and essentially Mert kills it? Does it die? Yeah, I think it dies. Yeah, dead dead. It's real dead. Yeah. It dead. It dead. Yeah. You know, it's something that with the alien design, too,

that I'm sure we'll talk to it as we get more towards the end, but I like that they took a very recognizable design concept and then even in this first one, then did like little things with it to make it unique. Like I thought the way it stood up on its appendages, like on its toes. Oh man, what a great, holy shit, what a great shot. Right, because it's just those little things that like make it off or make it off to us, right? Like it also allows. It also allows. you, I think, a little bit of leeway in the budget, since you're doing a CGI alien. Like, you make these little things that feel off so it can be a little less realistic. But, like, that movement work, the other thing I love that I thought was such a good

choice along those same lines was the movement of the aliens themselves. That was very, like, almost in a different, would be a frame rate. Like, they moved, like, a clock almost ticking. I felt like that unnatural movement, like, almost out of time. with her movement or our movement is such a great, great choice. Like it just makes... Thank you, thank you. It makes this humanoid thing, right,

that we are used to seeing seem different and different in a way that like, I don't know if it creep me out, but it just was like, it was just off-putting. You're like, this is, this, they're not, it isn't right. Like, it's...

You know what? Would you maybe say that they're alien? Alien? Oh! Alien? Oh. A-oh. You know what that reminds me? I'm so happy you brought that up. Like it seemed like the alien was at a different pace.

It reminded me so much of that, that, and I know he's controversial, but that Casey Affleck movie, the ghost one, a ghost story, I believe it was called. Where they literally filmed Casey Affleck, who is the ghost. They filmed him at a different frame rate from the rest of the movie and then digitally inserted him into the scenes. Because they wanted to show that, you know, a non-entity, a non-human entity, even a ghost could be considered that, would not be moving in the same sort of space and time as we are, as we know it.

And this reminded me so much of that when you saw the aliens moving of, yeah, like they traveled vast distances. They probably are able to sort of bend space and time to get here. So it is going to be a little different the way they move or interact with our. environment and that really suck out to me. They're not, anatomy, like, they're not flesh and bone in the same way. So, like, their bodies aren't going to work and mechanically work the way that, like, things on this earth do, which I thought was interesting as well.

Like, you don't know, are they bone or they muscle? Are they, because there's a lot of, like, turns, the way it turns itself is not anatomically how, like, we can turn. And I thought that just those little, those little, like, details in the creature design or alien design were just realized. Let's touch on the sound for a minute. Not the dialogue, but the sound. I watched this with like my stereo headphones,

and that is really the only reason I thought this needed to be seen in a theater. I would have loved to have seen this with like real big, Dolby surround sound sort of feel. But it was the sound design, and I think I have the guy's name here, Sound designed by Smokey Cloud. That's the sound designer's name. Smokey Cloud. At least he was the sound of sound.

Oh my God. I loved it. Everything from the score to just the house, the way she interacted with the house. And then like the sounds of the alien when it first shows up and the creaking and the kind of grovely. I wouldn't even know what to call it. Like almost breathe. that the alien did when it first arrived.

And then when eventually she kills this first one, I mean, you feel that diorama piece going into its head and you hear every single moment of that like penetration into its head and it's dying, last dying breaths. It was just so visceral. Yeah. You know, with that, I think one reason it makes that so important, and we haven't talked about this, but might as well,

Like there's also almost no dialogue in this movie. Does she speak? I mean, does she have? There is. I think they said there's collective like three lines of dialogue. I have one of the lines here, which I think is the most important. But we'll get to that when we get to it. Yeah, yeah, let's go there.

Right, that's right. No, she talks. Go ahead, Andrew. I was just to say she talks. Yeah, she talks at a point when. It's in her mind, essentially. But I think that that, that, like, it reminds me a lot of, what's the, Algar, I'm forgetting his name.

He's like the Netflix horror guy now. And he made the whole movie with the death person who's being. Mike planning. So, yeah, yeah, yeah. So then you're doing something, I think, when you're an actor who doesn't speak or you're doing something that you lose dialogue in the film, the sound, right, becomes, just like the setting, becomes a character in and of itself. So stuff like that, you know, what sounds, the aliens make, what sounds, the house makes, what sounds, she does make, like, all that stuff becomes really important.

So your sound designer, to me, the sound designer and your cameras are taking place of all that dialogue. Right. And because of that, I think it's got to be just perfect. Again, we talk about the aliens, like even when they move, the sound of their movements, right? That, like, creaky, like, I don't know, unearthly alien sounds, Andrew would say. All that stuff pops out at you because you're not listening. Like there's because you're not listening for anything said. And this designer did a great job at that.

I mean, just there's so many good ambient sounds throughout the film. Yeah. And then she, you know, as the actress, like when she does create a dialogue with sound, like just like her emoting through non-dialogue. Her panting, her kind of small like. All that. All that. breath intakes.

Everything was just so spot on. I can't imagine the work, like the physical work that the director had to do with her. And just what she naturally brought to that role. When you show up for a movie and you see that you have no dialogue,

I can't even imagine what she must have been thinking. I'm either this is terrifying or this is like the role of a lifetime. Yeah. And more likely than that, too, she is spending 80% of the movie, 70% of the movie reacting to a tennis ball on a stick or like maybe, maybe somebody in a green suit if she's lucky, you know? So it's a lot of, it's, yeah, enough can't be said about how much heavy lifting she does as well, just with her expressions.

But it is, I think all that is right, especially. Like, there is so much needed to support the dialogueness. nature of the of the film that, and I think every piece is holding it together really nicely. Yeah. And also just from like an audition standpoint, like doing commercial auditions where a lot of times you have very little dialogue

or you might have no dialogue and it's all like here's a camera like you're saying Andrew, like okay act. Pretend like you're doing like that work as an actor. I don't think people realize how hard it is because we rely so

much, especially if you come from like a theater training you realize so much on that word, right? The ability to speak and use language. And when you lose that, like on a film set, you know, you're doing a close-up shot or reaction shot. Like you know, what? One scene, two scenes? Like, you still have that language to fall back on.

So, yeah, Andrew, you're 100% right. Like acting without something there, right, a tennis ball. And to be able to have to tell that whole story, I mean, yeah, you have a good director and you have a good, you know, DP who's capturing these moments and we're going to edit that together. but like that is that is super challenging for an actor like great you don't have to minimize lines but like the the weight you're going to pull on camera um is monumental i mean it's it's it's a whole other type of master i'm i'm going to i'm going to show a page of the screenplay i don't know if you

guys have seen this it kind of went viral i'm familiar okay okay we will show that in a little bit um just to show how you write a screenplay like this. Because if anyone knows, I mean, most of a screenplay is dialogue. Right. You know, there's a lot of white on a page, but not with this one. This page in particular sparked a little bit of debate. And it was also, I remember seeing a similar thing happening with promising young woman. In short, when you are taking screenwriting classes and you are looking at things and a lot

of what you're taught at the beginning is the exact opposite of what this guy did for this script, which I think is pretty hilarious. And it was the same for promising young woman. There is the, and it's, and look, there are different, Duffield already had a career going. The writer of Promising Young Woman, Nepo Baby.

So like they have ways to get in that are a little bit easier. But it is kind of one of those things where you just, one of my favorite quotes about writing ever is from Len Ween, who is a comic book writer, who was also editor on Watchman and did all kinds of incredible things over at DC Comics. He said he spent most of his early career learning what to take out of his work and the rest of his career learning what to leave in. Because there is this kind of, it's one of these things, yes, you need to get the format down.

You need to have the basics, your exterior, interior, interior, all that kind of stuff. but you also still need people to read your script, read, and be entertained by the script. So it's kind of this, it's, it's a constant fight. It is. You know, I've been working with a couple screenwriters on one of my scripts right now. Because I, you know, I did go to school for playwriting, but I took like one screenwriting course. And essentially, like, that's what the world is now, movies. and I wanted to adapt to that.

And I've worked very closely with a few of these screenwriters and them sort of showing me, like, you're coming from a different world now, dude. Like, you're showing instead of telling where in plays you're telling instead of showing. So it is such a fine line when you're writing a script as opposed to what you actually see on film.

Let's show it. Let me just show the page. Why not? So what I was kind of... Oh, my God. Yeah. So this looks nothing like what your typical screenplay will look like. I know it's a little small.

Let me see if I can actually, I'm going to bring it full screen. And I will say, I've seen this page before I saw the movie. And I, this scene that is being described here is much later in the film, right? Yes, yes, it's much later. Since we'll probably have to jump ahead a little bit anyway, it gets to a point. She's fighting all these grays. And then there she sees that there are these. It almost looks like a watery dragon fruit with oxytoc.

There we go. There we go. I think I was pretty spot on. And they that are going into people and like possessing them. And it's very black mercy plant for my DC fans out there we come to learn. But this script the script page is describing one of these things going into her mouth. And there's really, you could very easily say, It gets in her mouth.

But instead, if I may do a dramatic reading, Shkamu, Shikamu, it's all the gray. There's Shkamu, slow move towards a camo, camo, camo, rising up to Khamu, face, face, way it too. Something's coming out of his fucking mouth. I don't see. I was fucking about. Like, that, to me, if I had been reading a screenplay like this,

got to that page, and I'm sure there are other examples in the screenplay of him doing stuff like this. Maybe there's not. I would have been all in at this point. I think he does such a great job setting us up to this point. And you're so entrenched in what's going on that this is such a great way to keep momentum going while also offering a little bit of a like, like, this is, almost like visual writing in a certain way. Yeah. Like there is something.

This shows what. Yes, thanks, man. You're like saving the director a million steps. You're showing them the intensity of the scene. What's going through the character's head? when, you know, a lot of screeners say, no, no, you got to leave that up to the actor. But when you have such a specific moment where, you know, these things are happening to her, I think this is fantastic.

This is up to the actor, though, because if I pick that screen up, you're like, you know, Andrew, if you're directing me, you're like, here's your script. I'm like, all, dude. And I get to this scene. Like, that's all up to me. There is nothing, besides that I cannot move, like, there is nothing there that's telling me. like what that camera's going to do what you like you know you pick up some scripts and like i can see like ideally i think about like i was reading about james gunn and his writing process like james gun will have like his script and pictures right because he's going to direct the thing probably he's drawing his storyboards

in his script so if you're an actor and you get that you're like oh well okay i know roughly what this shot is going to look like and what they're going to try to do and like i for better or worse like i pick that up and you're just like oh cool okay cool cool cool cool cool cool cool cool cool cool cool So it's, you're just, you're capturing this moment, but it's completely open at that point between me and my director and my DP, like how this moment is going to play out of what you need to see from it. I think that's really, really crazy, but also kind of brilliant. I mean, I don't, I think I would pick it up and be like, I don't, what do I, what do I?

The main debate came from, and this happens a lot with, quote, unquote, screenwriter, Twitter, which is you just get a lot of people. who have been told, especially like, you know, younger writers, earlier writers and stuff, you are told not to do shit like this. And then you see successful people doing stuff like this and that it becomes this kind of like, there has to be a point in your career where you as a writer, where you realize, like, am I, I, I've learned what I need to learn. Now I need to do. And if that comes out one way or it comes out, it just kind of, you kind of have to take over your own process at a certain place. Yes. It's like any of acting too.

you like you again with auditions right seeming you move into audition they're like hear all things you never do in an audition and then you read about someone doing it and you're like well mother but I think that you're writing it but it's also knowing like it's knowing time and place

right like there's a time in place where you need to write I'm sure again I'm not a writer but like write a clean screen play that is that is standard to like I'm going to turn this in and the studio that's reading this is going to be like oh I know what I'm reading I mean, just like there's a time when, like, you go into an audition room and you're like, okay, I, the risks and chances I'm going to take are risks and chances that I understand that this casting director is going to like.

And then there's other times where you can do the actor from Stranger Things, who was also on Power Rangers because my son's watching it from Australia. Like they talk about his, for Billy, his audition for Billy, which is a great choice. Like, he went on camera and he just stood there silently for like two minutes, I think. And like the cast director's like that's when he booked it. It was in that moment of him just. But like you could send that same self tape to something else. And a cast member could be like, I wanted 90 seconds. Totally.

And you gave me two minutes before you talked. Nope. It's just well, it's knowing time and place, right? Knowing when you can do it. And keeping in mind like he knew he was going to be directing this. So we do have to wonder what would it have been if this was just a spec script that he was selling. you know, trying to page. If anything, I wish, I think it's out there,

but I would like to see the first 10 pages of this script, especially because my assumption is, with how quickly it moves and how little dialogue it is, the aliens are probably showing up my page 9 or 10. So that's like, they always say, like, you want to grab people on pages. Well, and he, I will say this. I watched an interview with him.

And then I do want to fast forward a little bit through the plot before, because we're going up on the hour already. I knew this had happened. I knew this always happened. You guys are too, you guys are too acty and directy and writing. No, I'm kidding. That's why you're here. That is in my bio.

I'm going to put that on my bio now. Very specifically. But in this type, just one big black of words. I love it. What was I saying? God damn. Moving forward to the plot, I would actually like to help with that because you said something at the beginning here that made me feel like such an idiot, which is the cane and able.

aspect of this, which I didn't even catch on to. Yes, because we, the biblical allegories. Yeah, because it's, you know, she basically has the mark of cane on her because she, and not only that, so we come to learn through this thing going inside of her, or like right before that. The dragon fruit. Yes, the dragon fruit. That the thing that everyone is mad at her for is that when she was 12, her best friend pushed her. She grabbed a rock and killed her best friend, like just one hit, and it killed her best friend.

And then since then, everyone in the town has despised her. Again, she has this mark of King because in the Bible. A small town. Everyone probably knew them. Yeah. Yeah. God told

Kane to slay Abel, then he did with a rock, and then wandered here for the rest of his life. with this mark of being a murderer. I think in the Bible, the first murder. So I didn't catch that at all when I was watching it. It literally just took you saying it was beginning of this, the biblical stuff. And then what does she do to this alien?

She takes one swing with something and kills it. I mean, the mirroring of a lot of this is so interesting. Yeah. Well, and we'll get to the religious, the allegory a little bit later, because I have a quote from Guillermo del Toro about that, because he actually tweeted out about how much he absolutely loved this film and the religious undertones he found in it. Stephen King as well, I think, commented on it in some respects.

But yeah, yeah, Andrew, thank you. Stephen King compared it, and I think this is actually a great companion piece. And I would imagine that a lot of your audience has already seen this, but there's a Twilight Zone episode that is also almost entirely silent. We will get to that. Yep, and Stephen King compared it to that specifically. I cannot think of a higher compliment for a filmmaker to receive. From Stephen King, from Rod Serley.

I mean, this guy's getting the top horror people out there saying how much they enjoy this movie. And I would have to agree. There was someone on my Instagram when I posted, we were going to be doing this. And they said, why would you cover such a stupid film? What a wasted time. And I just feel sorry for that person. I'm just going to say everyone has everyone's entitled to their opinion. Right.

And I know a lot of people probably didn't like this movie. You could do a poll that says, does you like having money? And you will owe you that person who's like, no. No. No. No. No.

Anyways. I have to learn to not take those things so personally. But, um, okay. So, so we find out that she, um, through all these reveals, the town's not talking to her, what now.

We also see that it's not just her home that was invaded. We're seeing a full-on invasion happening. We start to meet all different types of these gray aliens that come to hunt her down. Did you like that? That's what I want to ask both of you guys. Do you like the variety of grays, especially Jimo Prang Mantis Gray? Because the Praying Mantis one especially because it coming over the house I thought looked incredible. And it like signaling, signaling to the spaceship I thought was interesting.

Yeah. Special effects also were amazing. Let's just say that off the bat. I agree. And I would actually, I'm a little bit curious about what the budget will be because I would be surprised if it was that low. 22 million. That's not super low. That's around what most movies should cost.

That's, can I say something? 22 million dollars is the exact amount of money that was given to the secret Pentagon UFO program. Wait, really? There's got to be something to that. I'm just saying. I'm just saying, you know. I'm just saying, guys. But I think the different designs of the grades, having a different kind of grays, it's a beautiful, there's a beautiful simplicity to it because you are still upping the stakes while not getting into, oh, here's an, I was, I just kind of, you just kind of immediately go like, all right, that little one is kind of like their attack animal.

And this one is it's like bigger one. And like there's, you know, I just, I personally really enjoyed that. and I thought it was a smart, simple way to keep raising the stakes because we just, you know, we start with a gray and it's like, all right, well, where do you go from there? Like, we have aliens within the first 15 minutes. So where do you, where do you go there? It's like, I was on the fence. I liked it.

I was on the fence about it. I just wasn't sure like, I was once like, oh, this is cool. Again, I like that the one was like signaling to the ship, which I thought was really a cool, like, touch. But then there was also part of me There was like, man, that is That's a big old alien. That's a big ass dude. It was a bold choice.

I mean, because when you think of the gray aliens, they're often thought of to be very prototypical, very robotic, very uniform. So they all look like the same exact thing. A lot of people believe they're just like drones. They're just like AI robots that the actual intelligence sent here. like we would send a probe to another planet. So you would kind of expect them to all be the same.

But what I'm seeing in this movie is the writer did not see them as just, I do think he sees them as a type of drone. And I will get to that as we start to wrap things up. But I think he wanted to give them some sort of uniqueness. And he said in a lot of interviews, I wanted to give these aliens like some sort of culture. Like they're not just a typical gray alien. They have motives.

They have agenda. It's not just to eradicate these people. No. I mean, they don't even really seemingly get pissed until she kills what, like starts knocking them off. You know, and I think that's why they really,

yeah. Sorry, Andrew. I think that's why they paid attention to her. Like they saw, oh, whoa, she's not like just,

you know, praising us and like, becoming mind overpowered in the mind like the rest of these people are. Like she's fighting back against us. Yes. Thank you. Yes. Yes.

And that was something that I actually love too was the aliens seem to at least like you have the gray that dies. You have the gray that's the other gray who like seemed a little more advanced like when she goes to stab and like pushes her away. Big old mantis gray and then tiny little tap dog gray. I just like the each alien felt like, but they had personality, right? It was a really nice, like the little alien when I was like, that little dude is here to like mess some people up. Like, it is not messing around.

It just like, I just liked it. Like, they were a character and of themselves. And you're like, I thought that was cool. I thought that actually really like that. Yeah, yeah. I would like to get a little bit into the ending if we can just. Yes, let's do it. Let's do it.

So we get through, she, she has this thing going in her throat. She's shown a vision of what her friend, like basically her friend now. And what I love this is, again, a, like Black Mercy. If you ever read one Superman comic book, read for the man who has everything written by Alan Moore. And I can't remember the artist, right? Curtis Swan, maybe. But it is about a, like this plant that basically gives Superman the life he always wanted, which is the like he grows up on krypton and has family and all this stuff but it's all fake and it takes him realizing that it's fake because he knows he doesn't have that to escape it sorry if i just spoiled the comic book for you um but it's still incredible to watch and they actually did a great adaptation of it in the justice league cartoon um or justice league unlimited yes thank you so um she sees this grown-up version of her friend she realizes that's impossible and pulls this

thing out of her at which point the aliens kind of like leave her alone and we see her at the end now dancing with all these the rest of the town being accepted by all of these people who have no control of themselves. I thought it was incredibly dark and fucked up.

Oh my God. Really wonderful like really messed up and really because again because the twist already you're just like oh god she killed her friend like that that's heavy and then it's even darker where she just like, oh, okay, well, everybody was really mean to me before, but now, because they all have zero control over themselves and these aliens like me, I get to dance with people instead

of by myself. How perfect, how, like, to me, that's like, how human do you take this person who's like, never anything? And, like, you had, like, again, like a really loved pet, but these aliens are like, no, all right, cool. We'll make it good for you. Ray, if she's just writing them how to be human, she's doing a very bad job. Ray, well, I, I, I actually, that's just a joke. I agree.

I agree with Ray wholeheartedly. Because the big thing about these gray aliens is that they lack emotion. They don't understand emotion. They don't understand a lot of what humans are. And that's why they are here and curious in experimenting and doing these things. So I loved this idea that they like, we're trying to figure out what is different. about this girl from the rest of these people. And you kind of see them on the ship as they have her in their grasp,

like trying to understand. And they kind of look into her past and see what had happened in that she has become so isolated and forgive the pun, alienated. And they kind of make her confront that. And oh my God. This is like, yeah, twist, but also like the fact that these aliens who are here to like, take over the planet, gave this person the, like, finally a way to confront her, quote unquote demons, confront what she did and find that forgiveness in herself.

I think really that is the core of this story, right? This kind of learning to accept something and, I guess, overcoming tragedy, overcoming guilt. Does she overcome it, though, because she lives in a town where everyone's now nice to her. because they're made to be nice to her. Like, I don't know if that's overcoming as much that it's like, again, the panel, come back to like, we're going to get, like, here's your atrium. Like, here is, like, we, you are our dog now. You got lucky and we are nice to our dog.

And so we're going to give you all the things that we think our tiny little human dog wants, which is to be accepted, to be loved, to be happy. Here's all these things you've been doing on your own. Now you get to do them with people. Like, I don't know if she finds a goodness as much. she finds happiness because she's been so ostracized. Yes. Well, and I think that's why the aliens give her happiness.

But I think it really depends on how you take this ending. Sure. That's kind of, I think, Andrew, I talk to you offline a little about this. I still don't know if this ending is real or not in terms of the reality of the movie that just played out. Like, did this actually happen at the end? Is she really happy? Is she really amongst these people? I envisioned, I thought like we were going to get this happy ending,

and then we were going to find out she's still on the ship. And she's still like being experimented on and the world is still being taken over. But that didn't happen. So you're kind of left wondering. Well, and I think I would err more on the side of the darker version of it, which is that these people are all slaves. And she's okay with that now because they're treating her nice. I think you're right.

that she goes to trial, filed, police report anymore. You know what I mean? That moment, I think, is really important of this ending working, right? Because again, you have to like her. But, like, to me, I remember watching the most horrifying part of this movie is when she gets spit on.

Because to me, there is nothing more, like, degrading and just dehumanizing than, like, to be spat on. And so at that point, I was like, well, like, I couldn't imagine doing that to, like, even, again, we're both, you know, Andrew, you and I are parents, Like that to me is my greatest fear.

Like you losing my kid would just crush it inside now. I still don't know if I could spit on some. I don't know if I could do that because it's such a like dehumanizing thing that when you get to the end, you're like, well, you know, okay. Yeah. Who's right behind your dancing? It's those parents. It's hilarious. And she lets everybody else get.

literally dehumanized. So gentlemen, on that note, I have to run. Yes. My friend. Yes. I love you both. Love you. Thank you.

Everybody for hanging out with us today. You guys are in good hands. And yeah, I'm around. Go find me. Thank you, buddy. We'll put links for all your stuff in the show notes. Thank you. He's amazing.

You're amazing. Get out of here. Thank you, Suzanne. Bye. Bye. Bye. Hey. And then there were two.

Nick, how long do you have, buddy? I have some more time. Okay, cool. Um, yeah, let's, well, I'm trying to think if there's nothing we really need to rewind back to, um, we are sort of, you know, uh, towards the end of like this story. But yeah, what do you make of what is like your overall, I guess, um, what's your takeaway from the story that played out? That's a big question, but yeah. Yeah, no, I mean, overall, kind of like I think Andrew was talking about and you were talking about like, I liked it. I mean, um, I did not find. So in some way,

you know, because we've watched these the alien about some movies together. And I know that like, from listening to the podcast, like the controversy talked about, like around these type of movies and how they paint these incidences. So like it didn't scare me.

Like it didn't feel the movie in itself, the monster movie part, it did not feel revolutionary to me. Right? Like so it watched them like, oh, okay. Yep, monsters come down. She fights monsters.

She takes out some monsters. Ultimately, like, monsters kind of win, I guess, because you're not going to beat the, aliens one-on-one. And so, like, in that way, I was like, okay, this feels nothing. Like, I'm not watching anything revolutionary. But I did love, like, I loved the nuances of the aliens. I love the nuances of how it was set up and how it was executed.

So to me, like, it's a really, really well-executed film that I enjoyed. It's, like, it's not the best thing I've ever watched. but it definitely like it would merit me saying like you should watch this movie if you like movies. Just the silence part. Just the way that like that director executed

the whole storytelling without dialogue any time a movie does that, be it the Mike Flanagan film, which I'm forgetting the name of it off the top of my head. Was it a touch? Yes. Whenever there's no dialogue

and I just, I think that it's such a challenge to watch a movie do that and then to do something like this and do it, successfully. I also again said this earlier on, the thing that I loved about this movie

that I think it did so well is I, by the end, by the time we find out what happened, I didn't care. I just, I was like, I know something bad happened. I figured that somehow someone died. Like, I got into that point.

And I was like, but I don't, if I didn't find out, I didn't find out. Because I was too invested in like, how is she going to get out of this? What's going to happen to her? Like, I just, it didn't, no one mattered to me.

And I thought that was really interesting, but that's where I went as a viewer. But it was great. But again, I don't know if I would have seen this movie in theaters. When I talk about it being accessible as a streamer, I don't know if I'm choosing my, again, in my time, when you have a kid and you have to make those decisions, if I'm choosing a scary movie,

I don't know if like this is the one that like I'm going to the theater to watch. But having it on a streaming platform, I was like, well, yeah, of course. But this is a great way for me to watch this film. Yeah. I do. Yeah. The more I think about it, the more I'm like, yeah, this is meant to be like, I had to watch it twice. Because the first time I was like, what?

Like, wait, what? And those last like 20 minutes, I think is where people are really having big debates about like if they like the movie or not. But I stress to people, like, go back, rewatch it first as like a fun, um, trying to escape an alien invasion film because that's what it is most primarily this film is like her fighting against the aliens and in whatnot. But then go watch it again and look at the bigger picture and sort of these allegories we've talked about and and what the filmmaker was trying to to sort of get across. I think you're right. Being able to go back and stream this again, you do gain a better resource. for it, I think.

Yeah, it didn't like break any barriers. It's not like revolutionary. But what it did in the form it took, I think it knocked it out of the park. It's executed really well. And I do think, and this is why I wish we still had Andrew, like

to me, it's a really risky film. Again, not because it's, but just by like, for that director to be like, okay, so here's the deal. I'm going to make this movie and like, we're not going to say anything and someone could be like, okay, but there's so much storytelling that happens not to take, to make

that choice in a monster movie that is not like the quiet because even think about the quiet place. There's dialogue. That movie is based around being quiet. Yet there's, and there's dialogue. Good point. You know what I mean? And so to really be like, I'm going to, I'm going to lean into this. And the only dialogue you really get are aliens that you can't understand.

And I just think that the execution of that is great because it never dropped. It's always moving. It's always frenetic. The aliens are all unique characters. She does a great job portraying her character. The world around her as a character. All that stuff that you're looking for when you lack other actors and dialogue, the director creates. To me, in that way, it is filmed remarkably.

It's not too short. It's not too long. It runs the right amount of time as a view. viewer. And that just makes it a really good movie. Was it was it scary? I mean, there's some moments, but I just thought it was just a good, like just a good movie. I just really enjoyed watching it. Really surprised me. Really surprised me. The one line that is spoken, I do want to bring up. What is it? Yeah. It's her. I have it here. I'm sorry, Maude. Okay. Nice. Which, you know, you could have even done without that.

Like, she was such a good actor that she could have conveyed that. But again, the fact that the one line we get is kind of the pinnacle of the crux of the entire movie is feeling sorry about what you did, confronting it, and finally moving on. I really feel like that's what the aliens wanted to do. They wanted to, they wanted to give her something. See, that's. Because they found her so incredibly unique for some reason. And maybe it is because she killed one of them. And as they started to hunt her down, they realized, oh, interesting.

The choices she's making. Let's go back and see why she's making those choices. The will, too. I think that's when I got out of it, too, was like just her will, her will to live, her will to fight. I think is what, like, when I was watching like the aliens, making this decision, right? Because that's, the other thing

it's really well done from a directorial standpoint because the aliens are all CGI. So that's all, you know, your animators and your director is watching them make that choice, like watching them be like,

okay, because I knew when it was over, like, she was going to live. Like I was like, she's going to make it out, somehow, whatever this looks like. Um,

and I felt that conclusion coming, right? And to me it was more about like, she had so much fight in her. She had so much, will to live beyond what the other people had that they encountered in this town, that that then sets her apart. And that's what I like, that's what I liked so much about it.

And again, you know, I always harking back, I'm sure this is not like, I'm going to get into controversial territory, but like, I wish I was better than names. He's the physicist.

He's a black dude. He's very smart. He's very funny. Oh, Neil deGrat's text. Newark, thank you. Like, and you know,

he always talks about like, well, if they're that smart, can do these things, like, we're bugs to them. I know that that can be a controversial statement. But this I liked, I like because they kind of did that with her,

where it's like, okay, we are beyond these emotions or our emotion, we understand emotions differently, right? Because we're putting human stuff on something that would be inhuman. And that's kind of how I always think about it. It's like, well, if they exist and it's more like how we view animals that can be incredibly intelligent and experience things similar to we do, but it's so different that we constantly strive to figure that out. Like, I think about dogs a lot because I have an older dog, and it's funny how little studied dogs are. Like, we really don't know a lot about it. Like,

how, like, we do and we don't, we equate them to walls, but that's not 100% correct. So we're just kind of like, here's this thing. We know is smart and we know feels, emotions, but like, we do our best as pet owners and if we should have pets to, like, create a life for them. And I just, that's the feeling they got. They, like, have this thing, this person who has gone against some of their conceived notions and like, okay, well, let's, you know, let's create a life for her and see what happens. Like, and we can just hang up here and watch. It's like a great experiment, but like, but they're caring, but they are caring for her. Yeah.

Right. But then we as people be like, but wait, isn't that caring for her? Right. Right. That's like the pet debate, right? Like, well, and I think that's the genius of it. Right. Because to then, the aliens are like, no, yes, that's me.

We're doing. Yeah. We are caring for her. Like, they feel like they're doing the right thing. Right. And then as people, you can be, there's going to be some people would be like, yeah. I mean, that's what a person would want, honestly. Yep.

Like, and then there's going to be other people who are like, absolutely not. All those people are mind controlled. Right. And it's that like, you know, I was reading this article about like having a pet, you know, should we have pets? And some people are like, well, yes, it's love and companionship. And other people are like, well, absolutely not because is your pets like, really that great, even if it's a good life. I was just thinking a lot of a lot about that because it's not a parent-child,

but because the intelligence level is different. That's interesting. I just thought that was cool. That's to me the ending. Like, that's what I grapple with is like, is this a happy ending? Is it not a happy ending? Like, what is this choice being made? Because she is also basically a rat in a cage, right?

Right. It's just a very, for her at that moment, a great cage until she realizes that she is ostensily alone. Then what? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. How long does that last, right?

Yeah. Exactly. I just think those things are really, I think that's a lot of stuff to play with, which makes sure. A much more advanced film, to me, storytelling-wise, than had it not had that ending. Agreed. Yeah, this is so much more than what you would think it would be. Yeah.

That's what I loved about it. I want to play Nick before we wrap this up, because we both got to get going soonish. A very brief clip with the director, Brian, about his inspiration for making the movie. I'm going to play that really quick. It's like a minute long. And then, yeah, we'll get some final thoughts. I do want to touch on that Twilight Zone thing that Andrew brought up to. Because it is pretty strikingly similar.

So we'll get to that. But let me play this clip really quick, and we'll talk about it. It started with the character that Caitlin Dever play is Bryn. I had this idea for the character. There's some spoilery inspirations for her, but I was just like, this is such an interesting character. She's so young to have gone through so much. And what does that person look like in the day-to-day world? And as I was kind of working on that, I have like the movie theater in my mind that's

playing all the different ideas I have. And, you know, the walls crashed down between these two movies. And I was like, that's really interesting. You know, it's the idea of like, you know, if this event happens, you know, it's going to happen to everybody no matter it's going to happen on someone's wedding day. It's going to happen five minutes before or after someone dies. You know, it's just going to happen. It doesn't care what you're going through or who you are. And that felt like a really fun way into an alien invasion thing from the least likely.

person possible, this kind of recluse girl who is going through quite a lot in her life already and then has to deal with this other layer of drama on top of it. So I just got married in my mind and then it was kind of off to the races, man. I love that. I love that he's like, this could have happened to anyone. This is who I chose to highlight. And that's the story he wanted to tell. And And such a good point, too, of, like, those who claim these alien abductions or close encounter experiences, like, it's not, most of them don't expect it. Like, it happens at the least expected moment or it happens in their life and it dramatically changes them forever. And it doesn't care. It doesn't care what you did before.

It doesn't care what happens to you after. It's just they're doing it for their reason. and, you know, the aftermath of that is for you to wrestle with. So I kind of like that he said, like, yeah, this will happen on this. This could happen on your wedding day. This could happen after, like, oh, that was so cool. And it can happen to the person you least expect. And he chose this very interesting young character to base this around.

And when we talk about storytelling, I think, you know, you talk about some of a writing perspective. Like when I'm teaching theater or teaching into the theater, you know like that's kind of what I think good storytelling does like I feel there's two ways you tell a story it's either like an like an exceptional person and an exceptional time who steps up right like you know so even when you have like I'm watching from right now which is great but you know like that character in that film in that show you like he was an army person who like his whole thing was problem solving so like while he's a everyday person like he has this exceptional trait right I think that's one way to tell stories like a good thing this moment. But I also think when you can take much like life where you think about like things happen in your life that are not movie like the biggest things happen when you like least expect it or like it doesn't

it doesn't matter. So I was thinking like recently you and I were all talking before and I said like I had gotten COVID like my wife is traveling for work for a month. So it's just me and our small son. Some single parenting and like in my mind I'm like the worst possible moment for me to get COVID would be like while she is gone. And sometimes that's That's how it happens. And that's like out of the script. And so on it's like you get COVID randomly when you're like, it's just that's how life.

Like it just, I think that he plays with the idea is that, yeah, it can happen to any time. It can happen to an extraordinary person or an extraordinary person. I think that going either direction, I think it's really good storytelling. Even if she is kind of extraordinary because she is such a recluse that lives this, this creating a life for herself. I'm rambling. I'm sorry. No, no, no. It's such a good point. Like it can happen to anyone. And a lot of people are like, well, then, well, then. Why don't, like, presidents get abducted by aliens or, like, these nuclear physicists?

Like, why are they the ones that aliens are interested in? I mean, that's the big question, though, right? Yeah, it's a great question. So for someone who's more, I mean, you and I have talked about this. Like, I definitely believe there's life beyond us because to me, mathematically, there's no way that there isn't. You know, I mean, like, however that aliens exist, I think that, you know, that it's, you're silly to think that there is not something.

else beyond us. But that is always the question, right? Like, why is it only people, like, lesser, like, people who aren't in these high positions of notoriety, not that some people do experience that, to be fair, but, like, it's always like the person that you least expect, right? And I think that that's why it can be hard for some people sometimes, because they're like, well, why is it Joe Smow down the alley as opposed to me or like, why me or why not me? Exactly.

That's what a lot of experiencers ask. themselves and even as to me. I think that's why the military one was such a big deal. Like when you have like, as you follow news, like when a pilot for all intense purposes, like when you talk to like hardcore military person, my brother was in the army,

you know, you know, or someone like that when they experienced that, you're like, oh, okay, well, something's going on here because they have, they have no horse in the race to, to have that experience.

Like it's, there's no benefit to them. Not saying there's benefit to other people, but like, if I'm like, oh, I have this experience. Like, I'm also an actor. And I'm also like, you could be like, well, that dude just wants tension so he could.

But like, a dude flying a jet has no, like, there's no, there's no incentive there to me to be like, by the way, I saw this crazy thing. And, uh, yeah. For sure. That's, I think that's why military witnesses lend so much credibility to a lot of what's, and we're seeing it play out right now. I mean, I need to talk about that separately because I will. I'm fully in the weeds and trying to figure that stuff out. But I'll go through it. I do want to touch on the Twilight Zone thing because I also have to get going to.

But let's let's hold this stuff here. Nick's going to continue this channel. I'll stay the whole time. You're amazing. I love you. So this was an episode, season two, episode 15 of the Twilight Zone called The Invasion. And this revolves around an old woman who lives alone in a remote cabin. And after hearing strange, deafening noises above her kitchen roof,

she's accosted by small intruders that come from a miniature flying saucer that has landed on a rooftop. Two tiny figures, which appear to be robots or beings wearing pressure suits, emerge from the craft. Small figures attack the woman. Let's see here. With pistol-like weapons that leave radiation burns on her skin. and after following her into her cabin, slashing her ankle and hand with her own kitchen knife,

she eventually kills one, wrapping it in a blanket and beating it until it's still, then throwing it into the burning fireplace. She follows the other to the saucer ship out of roof, which she proceeds to attack with a hatchet. This is kind of the, this last paragraph is the twist, you know, the Twilight Zone twist, as they always do.

A voice speaking in English emanates from within the craft. The intruder frantically warns that it's part. partner, Gresham, is dead, and that the planet is inhabited by a race of giants and impossible to defeat. The side of the ship reads U.S. Air Force Space Probe number one. The tiny invaders were human from Earth, and the woman in the small farmhouse belongs to a race of giant humanoid native to another planet. She finishes destroying the ship and then climbs back down from the roof into the house,

exhausted. And the distinctive features of this episode include a near solo performance by one character and an almost complete lack of dialogue. I mean, this clearly had to be the biggest inspiration.

Yes, I mean, 100%. It's crazy, the parallels. Well, the Tadzone is brilliant in of itself, so. Yeah. And they always, I love those twists. Like there was another episode where like these people are trying to get off of a planet because they know the world's about to end. And they're like, oh, who are we going to bring with us?

Are we going to bring with us? And then they finally get off the planet and they start heading to this new planet and come to find out that new planet is Earth. So they were aliens all along and in their planet. And the apes have taken over Earth and soiling green is people, Ryan. Soiling green is people. But yeah, I mean, we have a clear example here. This isn't the first time this device of no dialogue has been used. However, what isn't inspired by the Twilight Zone?

And a lot has been, and a lot of it has been complete and utter shit. But when you look at something like no one will save you, again, I feel like this is done right. This is homage to something that came before it done almost to perfection in my personal opinion. Well, it's like, I mean, it's like anything we talk about like writing or performances or, you know, it's like playing. I think Shakespeare is great, right? Because like you're going to do, you've got to play Hamlet, right? And there are, you know, Hamlin has been played by the most amazing actors ever.

And so you watch that and you have to think like, well, how do I do this? How do I tackle this? And I think one of the ways when you do something that's been done or you're doing something that's an adaption of something else, you need to keep what works about. it, right? So that's what I think he did. You know, this person alone in a cabin, you know, very little dialogue. So it's all about like creating the characters in the world around you. But then understanding like, well, what do I bring to it that makes it unique and makes it new? And again, I think it's like theater acting so important. So if you're playing Hamlet, right? Hamlet's is very intellectual character and thinks through all his feelings. Well, there is a level of

that that's inherent to the story. But then if you're an actor who isn't that, right? Like you are physical actor, someone who isn't as cerebral, like, you can do that. You just have to make it your own. You have to find those things that then make unique. So in this film, I think that's what this director-writer did, is like, okay, there's this idea that's inspired me about it. I'm going to do a story like that, but I'm going to add in these other dynamics that make it different. And then I'm going to execute it really well. It's in the execution that I think it works. An example would be, you know, you look at like the honeymooners, the Flintstones, and the Simpsons. And then Family Guy, which do all four, right?

Like, they're all kind of the same thing. Right. And they're all variations of the, like, stupid dad sitcom family type thing. But they're all executed if you like those shows. I mean, The Simpsons, I think we can really lay down as a very well-executed TV show. It's how they are executed, right? Or, you know, a really good cover of a song. It's all in that execution.

of it. Like, it's the same thing. It's the same notes, same lyrics. That's the same, all that jazz. But it's just a matter of like, how am I going to put a spin on this and how am I going to make sure it works really well? It's why something like the Vince Vaughn's Psycho doesn't work, even though it's a shot for shot remake. You can't do that. But you can do something like let the right one in or let me in versus let the right one in, which is a shot for a remake remake. which is not shot, it's very similar in terms of the American adaption to the Swedish adaption.

The Denmark? Yeah, I'm not sure. But either way, and I'm reading the book right now, too, like that adaption is so well done because it makes just enough tweaks. Yes. To make it its own thing for an American audience while still adhering to what made the first thing

so successful. And the movie, the Danish movie, does just enough from the book that makes it still successful. I think that with a movie like this, taking that idea, executing it really well, understanding how to tell a story, making it really tight, and then making the tweaks you need, like different-sized aliens or, you know, how the aliens move. Like those little things, those little touches are what makes such a good story. And a different twist, too, right? Like a really good twist that you can think about.

You can parse out like, is as happy, is as a sad? Is it, is it? I'm still thinking about it, which is key, dude. Like, if you can leave watching a movie or a play and think about it for days, weeks, months after, like, you've done your job. I mean, how many plays have you been to, or movies where, like, you leave and you're like, yep, wait, wait, what did I just see or what happened? Yeah. So. Even we think about, like, the movie that we did together.

like that ending when you talk about like is this a happy ending is a sad ending do two people still come together or not like letting is an audience kind of feel that out I love but I do love it's still an ending right like you get a definitive like there's a period right like I you know I I know I know the ending of this story it's just a matter of like how do I feel about it right yeah how can I get there and right and what does that say about me as a human I think that someone said it earlier Was it Ray? Like, what does it say about me and how I feel about this ending as a human being? Like, what does that, how does it paint me as a person?

Because if I'm like, no, this is happy anymore, then does that mean that I think all these people should be enslaved? Should be. Like, does my happiness override, you know, the unhappiness of the rest of society? Freedom of society. Yeah, it's, there's a lot of big questions to be asked. And I think the movie did it brilliantly. All right, man, let's wrap it up. Would you recommend no one will save you?

Oh, one million percent. I think it's also, I also think it's a really good movie for if you have like a teenager. It's a really good scary movie for like a 13 year old too. If you want to give them some more scary and fun to watch and like you can, because I think about stuff as a parent. Like, and you want to have a conversation later because I think that's something's fun about plays and movies and TV shows of stuff that you can talk about. And I think this is a good movie that you could like watch and then talk about it. And so, yeah, I would recommend it just for fun, but especially if you're a parent who wants to, like, get your kids into, like, kind of scary movies that is a little bit on the safer side. But still deals with a lot of, like, complex things, both, like, with the death of a friend and, like, the ending and also, you know, loneliness and isolation.

I just think that it deals a lot of stuff that I think would be our good conversation starters. if you're trying to get a young person in the world. I didn't even think about that. Yeah, like a lot of these struggles as the character in the movie, who's maybe a little older, but does deal with a lot of... The date on the gravestone was 2012 to 2012. They made that very simple. 23 years old.

I watched that going, my eyes old. Yeah, I know that feeling. Born in 2000. Just let that, just let that. Don't mind me. I just, the X-Files just celebrated their 30th anniversary. So I'm going through a lot of existential crisis right now, buddy. Me too.

You're older than me. Well, it's okay, buddy. I hate you. No, I love you, Nick. I love you. Before I let you go, my man, where can we find anything you're up to? Are you visible on social media or, yeah? I'm primarily visible on Instagram.

That's probably the best. I mean, Facebook, too, both those things are live. But like Instagram is probably the one if you're looking for more, the less personal follow. I have a Twitter X, whatever. I don't use it, though. I'm going to be honest. I don't blame you. But yeah, Instagram.

It's just N. Westmeyer. I'm the only one. That's where I put all my baking and stuff that's going out with acting or just pictures of my daddy, my dad life, which is just me posting memes from the dad. I love it. It brings so much joy to my life. Unlike this movie. No, I'm kidding. I recommend this movie wholeheartedly.

I thought it was fantastic. Whether you're indie UFOs or not, guys, it tells a very human story from a very non-human perspective. It can be a funny movie or a monster movie. It really can be either way you want to look at. I think that's what nice about it. If you were into it for a monster movie, it's that too.

I love that. I love that, brother. All right, I'm going to let you go, and I'm going to debrief with the audience here for a little bit, but thank you so much for sticking out. Of course. Thank you, man, for having me. You know, I love doing it.

All right. We'll talk soon. Bye. Bye. All right, guys, that is it. My special thanks to Andrew Sanford and Nicholas Westermeyer. This was awesome. I knew, I always tell them, this would be 45 minutes, maybe an hour, never happens.

That's what happens when you get friends together who have a huge appreciation for film. And this is definitely, I think all three of us could agree that we appreciate this film. And it really did a lot in the amount of time. that we had with it. So definitely check it out. No one will save you available on Hulu to stream right now. I saw that Suzanne start a couple things here. So I'm going to go ahead and check those out.

And then we will wrap things up, guys. We have here. Bill says, Ryan, is Ryan going to watch the Tom Dog movie, Monster California? Yes, Bill. I have watched it.

I did a mini review of it, actually, on last week's live stream. So if you go back and look at last week, Excuse me, last week's live stream. Towards the end, I do give a mini review of Monsters of California. But for right now, I liked it. It was fun. A lot of inside baseball, for those of us in the UFO field,

who have been following Tom DeLong's work, it found its way subtly into, and not so subtly in some ways, into Monsters of California. It's a total dude movie, total Blink 182, skater, West Coast sort of movie. movie. But yeah, I thought it had some heart to it. Acting was fantastic all around. The story was interesting. But yeah, I would definitely recommend people check it out. It was a lot of fun. It was a labor of love for Tom DeLong. And as his directorial debut, I thought he did a pretty good job. I think he will learn and grow as a director from here. And hopefully that will influence his future projects. But yeah, I thought it was a good,

first time out for him as a director. And the soundtrack was amazing. The cinematography was gorgeous. Absolutely gorgeous. Special effects were good. There's some UFO stuff, some Bigfoot stuff. I thought they did a really good job. So definitely check out Monsters of California as well, guys.

And then let me just go right back up to the chat one more time here. Then I'm going to say goodbye to you guys. Do you recommend? No one will save you. I'd love to know what you guys think. Let me see. Let me see. Susan, or excuse me,

Susan says the actress has every talent to tell in our emotions with our actions. That's why it's so amazing. Different for sure. I agree. I agree. Bill says, I like Nope too. Nope is one of my favorite movies, Bill. It's skyrocketed up in terms of UFO content for so, for sure.

All right, guys. I think that's going to do it for tonight. Thank you so much for joining me. Again, go check out. No one will save you right now on Hulu. My special thanks to Nick, to Andrew, and of course, as always, to Suzanne for running the chat tonight. She did an awesome, awesome job.

And that's it, guys. And just to let you know, there will be no live stream this upcoming Sunday. I will be somewhere in the sky flying to Nova. Scotia to hunt ghosts for the next month. But you can be there on my social media to follow my endeavors over there in Canada as I investigate some of Canada's most haunted locations for the television show, haunted. So be on the lookout for that.

And be on the lookout for a brand new episode of Summer of the Sky's premiering this upcoming Monday where we explore the Exeter UFO incident. And we've got some awesome interviews coming your way. After that, we've got an astrophysicist. Diana Walsh Pesilka, we had an incredible conversation, so I can't wait for you to hear that. But other than that, guys, I will leave you, as always, with our mantra here. And that is keep your feet on the ground, but never stop searching, somewhere in the skies. Take care. Keep looking up.

There's nothing to hide. There's nothing to hide at all. Greetings, everyone. Ryan Sprague here, host of Summer in the Skies. For over seven years and more than 400 episodes, the Summer in the Summer in the Summer in Guys' podcast has always been free to listen to, but it's not free to create. So we offer several ways to help support our efforts and get rewards in return. If you listen to the podcast on Apple, you can click the subscribe button at the top of your somewhere in the sky's feed to become a premium Apple subscriber. Or you can join our Patreon campaign with several tiers available. Both of these options give you the same benefits and rewards, add-free episodes, early access,

to the main show and bonus episodes and content. Help keep the lights on at the Summer in the Skies H.Q. And help us continue to grow by becoming a Patreon subscriber at patreon.com slash somewhere skies. Or by clicking the subscribe button at the top of your Apple feed. Thank you for your continued support. And keep looking up. Now receiving frequency.

For me, like, I will have a dream about a series of things, and then that next day, those things will sort of pop up. And sometimes it's like, oh, like, I know I'm going to run into this person, so I'm dreaming about them the day before or whatever. You know, I was just flipping through my dream journal this morning. And when I opened the journal, I opened right to a page that was about Walton Goggins. And I actually met Walton Goggins yesterday. It just felt like another weird, like, oh, cool, I need to keep dream journaling.