Somewhere in the Skies - ON THE TRAIL OF UFOs with Seth Breedlove & Shannon LeGro

Episode Date: March 16, 2020

On episode 152 of SOMEWHERE IN THE SKIES, Ryan speaks with filmmaker, Seth Breedlove, and investigator and podcast host, Shannon LeGro about their new docu-series, On the Trail of UFOs.  On the Trail of UFOs takes an in-depth look at the current state of unidentified flying objects and America's constantly-evolving relationship with the subject. With UFOs being written and talked about in major news outlets and behind closed doors in Washington D.C., Breedlove and series host Shannon Legro set out to document what is by far the most tumultuous point in the history of "flying saucers". The series takes viewers from the gates of Area 51 itself to the snow-capped White Mountains of New Hampshire. Filming took place across the United States, including New York City, Phoenix, Sedona, Los Angeles, Orlando, and Las Vegas. The team interviewed numerous witnesses and investigators of unknown aerial phenomena, including those who claim to have been abducted and experimented upon by real aliens. No stone was left unturned in putting together what Breedlove believes to be the most comprehensive look at the subject ever filmed. Pre-order of DVD and Blu-ray of On the Trail of UFOs right now by CLICKING HERE. Coming to DVD, Blu-Ray and streaming on March 20th. Ryan will be speaking at Contact in the Desert this Spring. For tickets, CLICK HERE Patreon: www.patreon.com/somewhereskies YouTube Channel: CLICK HERE Official Store: CLICK HERE Order Ryan's Book by CLICKING HERE Twitter: @SomewhereSkies Instagram: @SomewhereSkiesPod Watch Mysteries Decoded for free at www.CWseed.com Opening Theme Song, "Ephemeral Reign" by Per Kiilstofte SOMEWHERE IN THE SKIES is part of the eOne podcast network. To learn more, CLICK HERE Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/somewhere-in-the-skies. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Terms apply. This is somewhere in the skies with Ryan's bread. I have Shannon Legerow and Seth, Breedlove, here with me today. Oh, my God, this is going to be so much fun. What's going on, guys? So, full disclosure, guys, if I get a little wild on this show, it's because right before we started recording, I ran across the street to the Sonoco,

and I grabbed two bottles of Diet Root Beer. So if I started... Diet. Oh, you crazy man. Freaking out on the show. You know, you know, it's not me. It's the A&W talking. You guys have not lived until you have been in the car with Seth for hours and hours and hours.

And then you make a road, a pit stop on the road. And then he grabs all the salty and the sugary treats. You know that shit's about to go down. Nice. Do I do that? You do that every, every time we stop. We had to get road snacks, man. On this trip, I feel like most of, most of this road trip that we were,

most recently on involved to everyone mocking my musical selection. Oh no. It is slightly horrible. I mean, I'm just going to go ahead and say that. But I still love you. It's okay. Hey, that's what you get when you drive. You get to pick the music, man. Are you guys? That's what I'm saying.

But every once in a while, something would kick on it. We'd both sing to something. And we'd be into music songs, too. Shannon makes fun of my musical selection. Like, I'm like only listening to ballads. And this went on for like the entire trip when I was out on the West Coast.

And then she got to drive the car. She gets in. She puts it on. She turns on her playlist. And for the first like five songs were like Augustana. It just had the N.A word. So it was alphabetical. You just didn't get to the R's where Rob Zombie was or Anthony.

Oh, yeah. Sure. I just think that. You got Allison Chains in there. You might be putting on sort of a harder exterior than his. actually, then your playlist actually indicate. I love a good mix of songs, but when you are so emo, and guys, I feel really embarrassed because I'm so out of the emo thing that I didn't realize that it kind of is short for like emotional, like male kind of a thing. You have such a thickly laid playlist that there's so much of that in there that you should just wear a diaper to catch your tears while you're driving.

So you just open the front. So just catches all that right here in the pocket. I'm imagining dashboard confessional. A lot of dashboard confessional. No, it's not it's not dashboard as much. It's like Giuliana theory and a lot of like, Oh, hell yeah, dude.

Jimmy World. God. Get up kids. I feel so amazing right now. I don't know who that. No, I'm just kidding. Guess who's going to see a newfound glory, Seth, this guy. I saw, so, so I just told my wife the other day,

I saw a video pop. up on on Facebook and it was the lead singer of newfound glory are they it wait is it newfound glory that's touring with like unwritten law yes I believe so yeah it was their lead singers and as soon as I saw it I said it was I've never felt so old so fast it's so like I saw saw the lead singers and I almost cried why how are they how old are they because they're like my age yeah they're orange and then you go to their concerts and it's like you know 20 somethings and you're like, oh boy, what am I doing here? Yeah.

You've got to get the lighter up in the air and just, just own it, man. Absolutely. All right. So I guess I'll ask a question. I'll be somewhat professional here. Seth, can you give us the origin story of small town monsters? I know you're probably sick of answering this question at this point, but I know there's probably a lot of listeners hopping in right now on episode.

I think we're on 153 around there. Wow. Can you tell us a little bit about small town monsters, how it's a lot of. all came to be. Yeah, I mean, first of all, congrats on that many episodes. That's crazy. That's a long period of time.

And you're a busy dude with a lot of other stuff going on, too. So that in itself is an accomplishment. So, yeah, the Small Time Austers began its life as a, it was a book concept, but it was like, it was driven by my absolute boredom from my medical billing job at the time. So I had this medical billing job. and I would sit there all day and listen to podcasts and stuff that were based around paranormal topics. And I hit upon this idea of, I guess what I was trying to do was write about the cultural influence of rural monster cases on small communities where they took place.

And at the time, I was writing for a newspaper called the Massland Independent, and I did a column called Slice of Life that was basically just me talking to independent business owners around a relatively small area. And then sort of getting their insights on how they ran their business and how it affected the rest of their lives and stuff like that. So I think it was driven more by that sort of like ground level look at the reality of the cases, rather than. than where we kind of are with the series now, which is much more like cinematic. And I think still more focused on the people, but at the time, my entire focus was on the people. So that's how it began its life. It was a book proposal that I sent out to a bunch of different book publishers, and they all

rejected it. And about a year passed, and we ended up making Minerva Monster as a film, which was one of the cases that was in the initial book proposal that I had sent out. And then it just sort of took off from there. But I mean, it really hasn't changed that much since 2015 in terms of the fact that we are still just a completely independent production house. And we make independent features and we run a Kickstarter at the beginning of the year. It helps sort of fund what we do throughout the year.

So we've been around five years, but we kind of hit on a formula that we like in terms of how we run everything. And that's just still how we run it. Yeah, yeah. I mean, every time I go to Amazon Prime, like one of your films pops up in like the top recommended things. I don't know if that's because I, you know, this is my world and they know what I watch. Or every time I swear I go to any, any of the algorithms on Amazon, one of your films is there, man. So, I mean, there's a lot to be said for starting from the ground up and just getting, you know, getting noticed across the world. Did you ever think you'd make it to this point? It's funny because I think early on when we put out Minerva, we were just happy with sort of screening stuff in small towns and going to libraries and doing presentations. And then things changed with like getting on Amazon and on some of these streaming platforms. My dogs are about to start fighting.

So if you hear that in the background, it's just... It's not the root beer in your tummy. It's actually the dog. It's just Mona and Bubby trying to eat each other. But so so yeah I don't know I mean the answer is like it's crazy that they're that

that the audience is is global and that something like on the trailer Bigfoot comes out and has literally millions of views but at the same time I want the audience to get bigger I still I still just keep wanting to to get this stuff in front of as many

people as we can and when we have something like Momo come out that I'm really proud of and consider sort of an artistic or creative high point for us. And it doesn't find an audience. It's all the more painful for me because we put so much. Like, I think that's what separates us from something like, you know,

like some of the big network production houses, the companies that, like, put out TV shows like ancient aliens or whatever. You know, like that's just a random thing. But any kind of like network. Those are giant corporation-run production companies, and there's hundreds, if not thousands, of people that are employed by them. There's a certain level of this is just business to it.

Whereas with us, like, every single production is so much is poured into it that when you have a project like Momo come out and not find an audience, really, it's like a knife through your heart. and it's on some level it has a lot to do with the business side of it and like because if we have a failure it's harder for us to continue surviving but it's more like with momo especially it's more about we just wanted that movie to find an audience because we really think it's something special i still do like i had to run through it the other day because i was trying to grab production stills for something and um you know i was like skimming through real quick and as i was doing it i was like i really like this movie i hope I hope someday, like, it becomes some sort of, like, cult favorite or something. Like, because you, it's just, it was an original approach, I think, to that story. And I'm not tooting my own horn. I'm just really proud of all the work everyone did. So, yeah, I can't remember what your initial question was. I started just rambling about Momo.

No, as you should, man, Momo was one of my favorites so far. I remember reviewing it. And I think you're right. I think it is, it's definitely. one of your, it's your unicorn, you know. It's that special one that I think. It's super weird. Yeah, and it'll get its day, I have no doubt. But, you know, kind of the real reason we have you here besides the inception of small town monsters is to talk about on the trail of UFOs. So my obvious question next is what made you want to finally cover UFOs? And what was your approach with

this project. Yeah, I think in 2015 or 2017 is when we hit on the idea for on the trail of and doing the sort of episodic series stuff. And, you know, Alexander Pedicov did on the trail of champ and, and I really enjoyed his approach to it. And I liked how scaled back it was and how much of a return to, or the early days of STM it was, where it was more about like the travel and the adventure side of the filmmaking and less about like, let's make a crazy looking movie, you know, which is what we do now. It's like we approach everything really cinematically and methodically and

a film production is very different from on the trail of, which Shannon kind of witnessed firsthand in L.A. when we were filming on the trail of UFOs and then it like midway through had to shoot two interviews, one for the Mothman Legacy and one for the Mark of the Bellwitch. And it just, everything changes.

It becomes very like how the lighting is set up and it takes like 30 minutes to get one light in the right position and all that kind of stuff. It's just a very different vibe from on the trail. So I really wanted to get back. He actually made me stand on my head so that I could hold a light with my feet because it was at the perfect angle. So I had to hold that position for over an hour.

Yeah. Your triceps must be huge. Oh, dude. Burn it. Still burns. But it was worth it. We got the shot. Yeah.

So we did on the trail of Bigfoot, which was the first on the trail of that I did. and it was like all all filmed and shot by me other than maybe like a few points here and there where I was on camera and someone else would hold the camera. And while we were working on that, we did something with Shannon. We did a shoot with Shannon. Now my dog's knocking on the door. Get away. We did a shoot with Shannon and we had a blast while we were doing it. And I wanted to have a chance to go, you know, do more.

of that to get back out in the woods and and have her involved because we had a lot of fun. And we've known each other since 2014 when we had met online before that. But in 2014, we met on a town hall meeting for finding Bigfoot. Oh, my God. That's awesome. Yeah, that's how we met face to face. So we had a blast doing the Adams County thing for on the Trail of Bigfoot. And then I also hated being on the camera. and running the camera with on the trail of Bigfoot.

And I thought it would be a perfect kind of opportunity to bring Shannon in and put her in as like our POV character and let her hog the screen. So that's pretty much it. Choice hotels get you more of what you value. Here's a little tune to help you remember. Same drive, different day. Don't you wish you were getting away?

Pack your beds and come on through. Texas, Ohio, Alaska. We're up there too. comfort in. It's calling your name. Save on the stay. Oh, and free waffles are yours to claim. Well, I hope you like my little song.

Book direct at storeshiltails.com. Cool. Well, yeah, that kind of bleeds into my next question, Shan. How did you get involved? And what was it like, you know, I'm sure you had seen someone Seth's work before that and talked online. But what was it like actually becoming, like, a member of the small town monsters family. Well, and you

said the exact proper word that I always use, and it really is a family, and we spend a lot of time with each other, especially on this last shoot, to where I mean, if there was any kink in the armor, it would really show up very quickly,

and I don't think that things would run as smoothly as they do, and we really, truly do love each other, we have a blast, and yeah, everybody ribs the other one, and, you know, we're dropping F bombs and all you know like half the day i i think we must go through about a hundred of those sorry everybody who is maybe slightly offended by that but it's just one of our things i don't know

so it tells me my audience will be okay with that yeah probably and and i know that that mine would be too but you know and i know that this bug set but i always say it i still to this day one of my favorite productions of his is still minerva monster i i loved that film when i first saw it I just, I always told him, I was like, dude, you're, you're going places. You just wait, you know, and he's like, to the state, it's like, oh, no, that's, that's the last one that you should be in love with, you know, is a member monster. Yeah. Yeah. But, you know, to be invited to be such a big part, especially for, for this round, for on the trail UFOs.

And, and by the way, on the trail of Bigfoot, for me almost didn't even happen because I, I was literally at the airport. And I was going to board like an hour and an hour and a half from that time. I get an alert on my phone that the alarm at my home is going off. And I frantically am calling ADT. And I'm like, please just go over there. And, you know, if nothing's wrong, I'll shut it off and I'll get on this plane and be on my merry way to go film this documentary. And they're like, well, maybe, you know, so I ended up leaving. I miss my fly.

And long story short, I was up for a really long time. I, he, Seth, rebooked me a flight and I was able to get out that night, but the second I got in, we hit the road. So I don't know how I, I was still in a great mood, but, well, actually, I do know how it's because this group of people to swing back to the original question, they're amazing. And I feel extremely blessed to, to be a part of that family. And we really, you had not slept, though. No, I didn't sleep.

because you flew you took a red eye out but it wasn't like a typical red eye because you got in at like 4 a.m. or something crazy yeah it was crazy yeah you got into cleveland and then we got back to my house then we all hopped in the car and drove to uh Adams County and then went out filming by the time you got into bed you'd been up for like 30 hours or something yeah but it's so weird because when I think back on that if I was to do that right now from right now from right now and, you know, add another, to add it up to 36 hours, I would be ripping heads off people and I would be the biggest bitch on the planet. But I don't know. There's something about just, you know, and also, you know, you're, you are working. I mean, you're taking it seriously, obviously, but I, yeah, I don't know. I was tired by the end of it. I remember sitting at dinner going, I may actually yak my dinner up. I don't know. I think we're sitting at the, at the Mexican restaurant there. And I was like, I think I need to go to sleep or something. I don't know what's going. But yeah, it was still an amazing trip, and I'm really glad that it worked out for me to be there.

But it almost didn't. That was kind of one of the backstories that I think that a lot of people didn't know. I think that maybe just a bird hit the window, you know, and a dummy bird outside, and the alarm went off, and it sent the alert to my phone because nothing was, oh, and it was also Christmas time. So I'm thinking, oh, somebody broke in and all the Christmas presents. You know, all these things are going on through your mind. I'm like, I'm so sorry. I said, I got to go home and see what's going on. A-holes at ADT that I pay for are not going to go over and see if anything's actually broken.

So, yeah, anyway, long story short, made it out. And now the on-the-trail UFOs is, of course, something that I am very proud to be a part of. Yeah, I mean, we all know, Shan, you come sort of from the world of Bigfoot. I mean, this is where you got your start. This is what most of your initial research started with. So when Seth approached you to cover UFOs, like, what was that like? what was that like? Did you have any trepidation or were you like all in from the beginning? What was that like?

Oh yeah. I was definitely all in. Didn't we talk about, I think we talked about it that weekend. The weekend you were actually up here for Adams County. I think we were already talking about it even that far in advance, which actually wasn't that far in advance. It was like a few months before we would have started shooting. But I think we actually discussed it while she was here filming Bigfoot. Yeah, because I remember.

you, and he does say this a lot. He's always like, I, I can't stand being on camera, which I never understood. I mean, you know, but everybody feels like that about your own voice or the way you look, or we're all like that. Yeah. But, yeah, we did talk about it. And I was like, of course I would love to do that. I mean, UFOs is not my willhouse in any way, shape, or form. I'm terrible with, like, oh, well, this case happened on this date. And this is the exact location of it. And that's so not my strong suit, but it's obviously something that I do like to cover on my show occasionally as well when it comes up, of course. So, okay, so with on the trail of UFOs, guys, Seth, you have, you sort of have this core

group that you work with. I know you bring people in and out of several different projects, but could you maybe tell us a little about the crew on the trail of UFOs? Before we get into the meat of the actual journey, who was a part of this? And who did your artwork? I have to ask. These posters and marketing images you guys have been cranking out are so cool. So, yeah, I always like to get the creatives credit on these things.

They are the forgotten people often who don't get the credit they deserve. This one was totally different from on the trail of Bigfoot. Because like I said, on the trail of Bigfoot was really, the crew was like a one-man of crew, and it was pretty much me. And most of that was because of the way we were doing the shoot, where on the trail of Bigfoot cost less than $5,000 to make, and that's with our poster budget. Most of that is because of the fact that I tacked on my shooting trips to trips I was already taking.

So if I was going to San Francisco to speak and show movies at Bigfoot Bonanza, I tacked on an extra two days and went up into the mirror woods and shot B-roll and interviewed Lauren Coleman and whoever else I could find in San Francisco that was. willing to do an interview and that's how it was like i i would do an event and i would also tack on uh an interview and b-roll and that's how we got all the footage and that's how i got to so many different locations we actually hit more states with on the trail of bigfoot than we did with on the trail of ufos but that was the the the crew on that was non-existent and uh with on the trail of UFOs, it was very different. But the crew did

change somewhat, not change, I guess like there were additions. There weren't really any subtractions other than we lost Brandon for the East Coast leg of the trip. So Jason Yudis was, who is normally our sound recordist

with on the trail of UFOs, we didn't use a boom mic once. All the audio is actually either in camera or lav mics. So Jason was actually pretty much just like a secondary camera guy and held either a handy cam or I'd just hand him whatever and he'd shoot as like a secondary camera. Zach Palmasano was along for the East Coast trek. Brandon was there, Shannon was there obviously.

Adam Dugan was a part of the East Coast trek. So was Alexander Petticov. And am I missing someone, Shannon? I think that's pretty much. Yeah, and everyone kind of added their own, helped in some way. I don't really know, like, unlike the movies, I don't know what to credit people with. Because people, I mean, the cinematography, in the opening credits, it says Zach, Seth, and Jason when it's talking, when it, when it is giving the cinematography credit. But the fact is, like, Zach, Jason and I shot large chunks of the series, but I think Shannon has cinematography in there as well.

stuff she shots that made it in. So did Adam. So did Alex. So everyone kind of did something. And the crew was varied and changed a lot. So it was very different from the last on the trail of. As far as like the poster art, so our poster art is done by Matt Pepler,

who did on the trail of Bigfoot as well. He does those like double exposure looking artistic. They're like minimalist posters, but I loved his style. And it's funny how I met Matt. We were at Wizard World back in 2015, Whistworld Cleveland, the Comic-Con. And I saw his table, but he wasn't at his table. And I took his business card and didn't contact him until 2018 when we were making Bigfoot. And that was the first time I spoke to him.

So it took a few years. But I had always followed him and really liked his work and wanted to work. and wanted to work with him at some point. So he does the posters, and then I have to give a ton of credit to Mark Randall for doing like 97 illustrations that are featured throughout the series. He did an astronomical amount of work between...

The first work he turned in was in December. So let that sink in, because that means he did 90-plus pieces between December and when we locked cut at the... very end of January. Oh my God. It's like a full-time job. Yeah, yeah.

He did boatloads of artwork. And it's, I think it's fantastic. They're stunning, man. Yeah, I've already brought him on to do more for, for the Mothman project that were on the trail of Lake Michigan Mothman project that we're working on now, too. So he's, yeah, his work in there is great. Santino Vitale ended up doing a ton of effects work, which was not part of the original plan.

This was, you know, on the trail of supposed to be scaled back. It's not supposed to have recreations and all that kind of stuff. And then UFOs completely bucked the system that I kind of had in place in my head for what things were going to be like. So Santino did a ton of effects work. I mean, episode six, which is the mystery lights, that episode has more effect shots in it than all of, I think, invasion on Chestnut Ridge. But that one 27 minute episode is loaded with affection. shots. It's not all Santino.

I actually learned how to do some effects work myself. So I did affect shots throughout the series, too. So, yeah, I'm trying to think that there's anyone else that I need to. Well, the sound design and sound editing on our last few movies, and now this miniseries have been done by John Parfit, who he brought on board with Tara in the Skies. And he did a ton of work, as you can imagine with this one, especially when you see the all the crazy quick cuts and stuff like that. He's adding those camera wearing noises and like when there's like the weird zooms and

all that. That's all John doing all that work. So that stuff is John's. And then obviously the opening theme is done by Brandon Dalo, who has now done that. That's a variation on what we're calling the on the trail of theme, which is actually a song that was in the Beast of Whitehall called In the Valley. He reworked it for on the trail of Bigfoot. Now he reworked it again for on the trail of UFOs.

I love it. So we've got an on the trail theme song going. Yeah. That's awesome. All right. Well, let's get to chapter one, the UFO people. I'd love to sort of cover each episode here with you guys. You know, briefly, we don't want to give away too much.

But it sort of introduces us to the people in uphology. And it brings us up to, you know, it brings us up to date on the big story that broke in 2017, New York Times, blah, blah, blah. If my audience doesn't know that by now, they are not UFO people. But yeah, we got the secret Pentagon UFO program and all that. So could you maybe tell us the both of you, maybe a little about why you decided to choose to begin the series this way? And maybe a little about why you chose the people you did to interview throughout the whole series. Shannon can definitely talk about the interviews.

I knew from the beginning this was the first episode. In fact, this was part of the initial episode layout. It's funny because this is typically where an SDM project would end, especially, you know, something like on the trail of Bigfoot was very chronological, sort of began with the past and brought us up to the present. I did not want to do that with on the trail of UFOs. I wanted it to be sort of all over the place chronologically. It's about the phenomenon itself rather than the history as sort of the, I mean, it's about the history, but the history is interspersed with all this other stuff. stuff. And, you know, the history is going to be dulled out as you're learning about all these different sub-topics of the genres, as we call it in one of the episodes. So beginning with this was really important because our main audience, the reason we exist, the reason Small Time Monsters exist is our audience is a general audience.

It's big footers are great. UFO people are great. That is not the audience that is watching our movies in the millions. You know, like, it just doesn't, that doesn't compute. I don't think there's that many people that are avidly into these topics. So, whenever we make anything, our core, the audience that we are making stuff for is an audience who might not be aware of, of a lot of the ins and outs of these topics. So, um, beginning with an episode that sort of helped set the stage for where euphology is today was super important.

And at the same time, getting a really sort of intense personal story in the form of Dan Weiss's encounter was equally important because it helped establish the tone of what we were going for throughout the rest of the series. And it sort of helped set the mission statement that we had from the beginning as well, which was, you know, we're going to put the focus back on the people that are involved in this. So that's from a storytelling standpoint, that was always, this was always the opening episode. Yeah, I think that makes sense. And as far as like the interviews go, we, we went after people who were, um, interesting from a, from a witness standpoint. And we went after people who were skilled and knowledgeable on, on UFOs. But a lot of that had had to do with Shannon. Because Shannon set a lot of these up. Oh, I'm sure. I can throw it. I'll throw it to you. Yeah. What made you

choose these people? I mean, as you know, just a byproduct of doing. in a show like this. Even if you're not heavy into UFOs, you still know a lot of UFO people. And I was lucky enough to get a hold of a lot of these folks and they were on board with talking to us. And, you know, we've, we contacted and sat down and covered everything from, you know, we've got a historian in there. We've got a NASA engineer in there. We've got plenty of experiencers and witnesses of craft and, you know, even down to to beings and things that they think that they've seen and experience. own homes and then even somebody that, you know, likes to execute the more the CE5 kind of thing, you know, where you're going out and you're, you've got almost this kind of a kata, like a dance that they're doing to try to call a craft in, basically. And, you know, that's the space that they

live in. So we had such a cross-section and I love this word, a dichotomy of different types of people that were, I mean, on completely different ends of the spectrum. And, you know, in hindsight, to take even this person and that person are these three people and just to let them start to chat on camera would have been an amazing part of the series if that was logistically possible to do. But it is such a different cross-section in just these eight episodes. It's very mind-blowing and it was very humbling for me to be a part of it just to realize how different people are, but they're still kind of going after the same thing, obviously. They still want to know. They're still asking the very same questions that no matter what you believe that we all are.

Yeah. Well, you bring up a good point, Shannon. You know, full disclosure to the audience, I do make appearances in this series. But when I was sitting there talking with you guys, I felt like I was just rambling and like nothing I said made sense. None of it was chronological. I left being like, what the hell did I just say? And then when you see the series in a context and this overall narrative that you guys crafted about the UFO topic, it's amazing when you can zoom out and see all these different perspectives put into one cohesive narrative. You know, maybe it's not as clean and neat as most people want the UFO topic to be, but that's just it. It never is.

But it was really cool and refreshing to see so many different people talking about UFOs. And even though we disagree on things, the core elements were there and we all had so much more in common than I ever thought we could. So that was really interesting. Did you tell him? Did you tell him yet, Seth, about how you feel about his interview? Oh, yeah, yeah. I think I did what we were doing it. But your interview is my favorite.

it like I said this I think I said it while we were there but that was the most relaxed I was during any of the interviews and you know maybe it's because we kind of have known each I mean we we'd never met before but we'd known each other for a few years now yeah I felt like I know I'd you know know my whole life yeah I mean it was just it was so it was so relaxed and and it came at a really I've said this on another show recently it came at a really necessary time for me because I was Shannon and I were both sick. Shannon was getting sicker. I was getting better by then. Yeah, because you started it and he was the host. Yeah, I was the host. He was over it and all of us were like, patient zero. Let's not get you. Uh, viruses. I was completely exhausted from like driving two days. Oh yeah. Doing all the, all the filming the day before. I was sort of stressed out. And that interview like really put me at ease at a very early point in the trip where I still had a lot of work ahead of me. So it was like, it was weirdly therapeutic in a way, too, because it was, it reminded me of

why I like doing interviews. It just didn't, it didn't have the formality of some of the other ones that we had done and were about to do. So that was one of my favorite, if not my favorite interview on the entire shoot. Oh, shit. Well, that's good to hear, man. And then I threw it to the wolves in the middle of Times Square. That was great, though.

That was fun. Last, yeah. And that's some of my favorite footage in the entire scene. series was following you guys around Times Square, which is funny. Originally, you know, that the footage of you guys walking around was going to be in the first episode and then I wanted to use it in the second one and then third because it's like some of my favorite footage. And then it ended up not making it in until the very end, like till the beginning of

episode 8, it finally, the Times Square footage finally shows up. Yeah, Times Square. Always making its late entrance, I guess, in fashion. Yeah, no, I, I was so. to be a part of this. And I, I, I just, I love the way you did this. It was, it was so unique to, uh, what we usually see in the UFO world. These like, you know, super slick documentaries that have the same damn people in them spouting the same stuff in an echo chamber. But, um, that's not what we got here. And what I loved is each sort of episode has its own facet to UFOs. And I always tell people,

you know, the UFO topic can be viewed from every angle you can possibly think of, whether it's history, you know, psychology, biology, anthropology, psychology, everything. And that's what I've always loved about UFOs. So when we get to chapter two, the changing face, this is where you kind of cover the craft themselves, which, you know, is very, is a nuts and bolts approach to euphology, which a lot of the old school people seem to focus on a lot, is the, the evolution of the phenomenon or these craft that people are seeing. So, yeah, what was it like trying to really get across this point in the series of how UFOs have changed throughout the, I guess, the decades? It's funny. My concern with this episode was that people would find this super boring, but something like the airship waves is one of my favorite aspects of the euphology. Like, it's, those airship waves have always been really funny.

fascinating to me. And Mark and I actually did like a, I think we did two parts on Monsteropolis that were all about the airships earlier this year. And so, so yeah, it was really important to establish what a UFO is for an audience, as stupid as that might sound, but, but for an audience that is just coming into this, that thinks of UFO solely as being a flying saucer like they've seen in movies from like the 1940s, because for a lot of people, that's what a UFO is. And, but for a UFO is. Or it's just the Tic Tac now. Because like that's a thing. Like people are just coming into this because they saw the Tickdaq video and they're interested because Tom DeLong is into UFOs now. And so I wanted to establish like right right out of the gate. Like this is what a UFO is. This is,

you know, like these, these, the entire thing's been changing. What they are is changing almost daily, it seems like. But at the same time, there are these waves of like particular types of craft. So, you know, starting with the airships and then working our way to like the black triangles was really fun. And then it also gave me a chance to start talking, looking at how much we were going to do. And interestingly enough, too, episode two was actually edited before episode one. So that quick cut kind of style was established on episode two rather than episode one. We actually didn't, we had not finished shooting episode one because, we had not done the Los Angeles trip yet.

And I was waiting on Greg Bishop's interview because I knew that that was going to be used in episode one. So episode two was actually the first finished episode of on the Trail of UFOs. And so that ended up being the episode that established the style and tone, stylistically, the entire series going forward. But it was really important to set up what a UFO is. I don't know. If Shannon wants to, she was along for the blueprinting of all this too. can talk about that some. Yeah, do you have anything to add to you?

No, I mean, you know, Seth usually covers everything so beautifully. And we found out on the last show that one of our answers is exactly the same for a very important question. So, no, I think that, um, see, unlike, unlike Seth, though, I think that the airships, although they are very interesting, I think for me, the old school flying saucers, the Kenneth Arnold, the nuts and bolts, I still just love that stuff so much. the idea that, you know, hopefully there are little gray men flying these things. I still have that romantic view of it. Of course, it's not so romantic to those that think they busts into their homes and stick things inside them. But that's not just saying, you know, to be slight, but I still want that to be true. I don't want to think that human beings, although I know that we are intelligent, that we could actually create such things even way back then that could

make maneuvers like that. So I like the fact that also in this we do, we talk about everything. We cover everything. We wanted to make sure that, as Seth said, if you're just coming into this and you want a good broad base of UFOs, we made sure to do that for them. I guess using Phoenix as the as the bookend was kind of important too, because Phoenix is such an important modern day event. And at the same time, like, I remember being really paranoid. I don't know if we talked. this about this on the shoot. I think we did. I think I was really paranoid about using Phoenix because of the fact that it seems like it's so covered, you know, like it's been covered so much in popular media. And at the same time, when I really, yeah, and when I stepped

back and thought about it, I was like, I really, I actually don't know that it's as well known as it should be to an audience that's just coming into UFOs, you know? So like, and maybe for for an existing audience, for the existing uphology people, like you've got Ron Rehear talking about seeing it on that radar coming out of Area 51 or whatever, which I don't think was out there before we did this. So there's at least something new in there. That like blew my mind when he said that because, you know, yeah, we all have these, these, at least within the UFO community, these romantic ideas of, you know, Phoenix Lights was this. It was two events. The first was alien. The second was a military cover.

but to hear someone like Ron say that, oh, we saw that on radar at Area 51. Like, that completely blew my mind. Yeah, that was so cool. Okay, so we go from the craft to the places in Chapter 3. Now, the places you will go, this episode really, really fascinated me. It put into perspective how important area and geography can actually be when researching UFOs. And you covered stuff like the Hudson Valley or, you know, Pennsylvania or even Cedo Arizona, which is said to be, you know, these big hotspots or quote unquote window areas for UFOs.

So what was it like exploring this aspect of UFOs? It's, it was, again, like this was like part of the initial breakdown for episodes even before we'd filmed it. So we knew, I knew I wanted to hit this. I think I thought the episode would play out a little differently than how it ended up playing up. But I like the, I like the layout of the episode and how it jumps from. between these, I think it's three specific areas where it really spends time. But, I mean, there's Skinwalker Ranch has talked about in this episode. There's, yeah, there's a lot of different spots that are mentioned.

But it was really important to me because of Hudson Valley. The Hudson Valley stuff is some of my favorite UFO wave, you know. It's so amazing because there were so many people involved. And it seems like it's so underrepresented these days. Like people don't talk about it. as much as they once did. And I always loved this because of that Unsolved Mysteries episode that they, where they did the amazing recreation of like the black triangle going over

the dude's house in like some suburban neighborhood in the Hudson Valley. And I'm obsessed with the Hudson Valley. We're actually talking about like going back on another vacation because we actually went to the Hudson Valley as like a family vacation last year. And we're talking about doing it again because I just, I love the area, and I love how New England-y it feels, but it still feels completely different. It feels like, I don't know what it is about that area, but, I mean, Ryan, you're close to that area, so I'm sure you know what I mean. It just feels different.

It feels otherworldly or something. There's something about it. I really like. Absolutely. It's just, there's something magnetic about it. I mean, you know, growing up in upstate New York, like, you'd be surprised. I actually never really made it to the Hudson Valley until I moved to New York City. And it took moving to this crazy city to like, you know, start exploring my state overall.

And then, you know, yeah, just going to these areas where you hear that this UFO wave happened, not even, it might not even be the UFOs themselves, but it's the lore behind it when you get to these places and you start feeling it. It's, it is. It's magical. It is. And this is also kind of like for, I think for me for the East Coast trip, this was the first time. It felt like we were really, this episode, something we filmed for this episode is when I first felt like we were really doing it on the Trail of Series was when we did the Kexburg stuff. Because it was a callback. It just felt like I was back on the trail of Bigfoot because we were out in the dark and Stan Gordon's there and we're looking at lights in the sky where it's painfully obvious.

They're airplanes, but nonetheless. That doesn't matter. Yeah, it didn't matter. We were... Yeah, and I just, I wanted to do an episode, too, that really set up that idea of window areas, hot spots, flaps, you know, like stuff like that. And again, like, there's a big importance to the overall. That's a huge piece of the overall puzzle. Also, another piece of our puzzle in Pennsylvania at the Chestnut Ridge was we stayed at a house that we actually had mows there on property, like staying in a smaller house off of our house.

but Seth and I and Adam we go walking up the hill to get a little night shots and this and that and dude just runs out of our basement from our basement not his day I'm like where did Mose come from what the hell is he doing on it? There was a man on site who came out of our basement

at like midnight at like midnight I mean yeah and it was very random did you ever find out why no it wasn't just him it was like him and his wife and there was someone else too they were taking like a mattress out the second time we saw this place had a kill room like in dexter we aren't kidding there was a damn kill room in the back with you know then you got the saw horses with the plastic all over yeah and

there were other things that happened at that that house that I put um yeah some people some disembodied at at like 5 a.m might have been earlier I woke up and uh very clearly heard someone to walk up the back porch because this is an old house probably probably built in the 1800s. Actually, it was older than that. Isn't it? Shannon, didn't we find something that said it was like the oldest house in the state or something?

It was insane. Yeah, and it had like this log book and people are talking about the ghosts in there. Oh, yeah, people were talking about all the ghosts in the house. Yeah. So, so yeah,

5 a.m. Let me set this part up because this is funny. So the way the house is laid out is the bedrooms are all upstairs. and but there's there's two sleeping areas so one one sleeping area is a bedroom that you have to go up this creepy flight of steps that's insanely narrow and tall and you go up and there's one bed and that was where Shannon slept oh by myself but yeah the other side of the house isolated section of the house and then in the other section of the house is two bedrooms and then like an open area with two beds in it.

And that's all in one small, tiny area. And that's where all the men were, that's where we're all sleeping. So we're all safely in our little, like, hut or whatever on one end. And then Shannon's in another section of that house entirely up on. You weren't on the insurance, Shan, sorry. No, no, not at all. It's like 5 a. 5 a.m. I wake up and I hear footsteps come up our back porch, the deck of the house.

the deck of the house, I hear the back door open. I hear the back door, the screen door open, I hear the back door open, I hear the screen door close, I hear the back door close, I hear footsteps come through our kitchen

and go into what sounded like the living room. I'm out of bed immediately because we have thousands of dollars worth of equipment sitting downstairs. I'm out of bed immediately. I get Adam, Adam's out of bed, we run downstairs.

There's no one. There's no one in the bed. There's no one. one downstairs. We go through, we check the door, the doors are all locked. There's no one in the kitchen. The basement door you can't really access through there. So I don't know what I heard, but I very clearly heard someone walking. Because you weren't even asleep, right? You were up. You were awake at that point. This is not like you dreamed this and then you went downstairs. Oh yeah. On shoots, I really don't sleep very well on a shoot, which is probably why I have migraines pretty much the entire time we're filming. But

But yeah, I hadn't, I was wide awake at that point. So I was just laying there waiting to get up so I could go film and we could head to New York City. Because later that day, Ryan was actually when we interviewed you. Oh, wow. I didn't know that. Wow. Yeah. So we were, we were, so I don't know what it was, but that house was haunted.

Haunted is hail. Yeah, the logbook actually did mention that in various places, several places. So you went out of a house, cool spot. You're like, whoa, God. You went looking for UFOs and you found a ghost. Way to go, guys. Also, Seth has a knack for finding Airbnbs that only have one bathroom. And that's down in like the common areas.

So nobody felt like they could take a proper poop like the entire trip, you know? Even the New York Airbnb where you got interviewed, the bathroom was like right in the living room. Yeah. You know what? The best thing about that was I woke up from my nap right before Ryan got there and there was no one in that house. You guys had all left me. So happy. I took a nap before prior to Ryan's arrival, I woke up, everyone's gone.

I'm like, I got this whole place to myself. Yeah. Time to do it. See, this is the inside scoop, the things that people don't get to hear about. Yeah, I bet you didn't hear the term proper poop on this episode, huh guys? That might have to be the title of the episode. We'll see. We'll see.

Can I get a proper poop on these shoes? Come on. Oh, man. Okay, so we move from window areas to locations. to the tricksters. I love the title of this episode. And this is where you start digging into what could be behind the UFOs in terms of intelligence or what it is. So you got a lot of, you got a wide spectrum of opinions and theories on this from the people you interviewed. So what did you both make of what you discovered in this aspect of the research? Who are piloting

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visit robbie graham.uk. This episode is brought to you by Netflix. Most valuable promotions in Netflix are hosting a blockbuster triple headliner Saturday, May 16th. Rhonda Rousey returns to face fellow woman's MMA pioneer Gina Carrano in the main event. Plus co-main's Nate Diaz versus Mike Perry

and the best heavy weight in the world, Frances Ngano versus Felipe Lins. Watch Rhonda Rousey versus Gina Carano. Live only on Netflix. Saturday, May 16th at 9 p.m. Eastern Center time, 6 p.m. Pacific time. Oh, I mean, I already told you I wanted it to be the grays. So, you know, but I think at this point, unfortunately, sorry to jump into it, but just real quick, I have a quick answer. I think a lot of the stuff that we're seeing, especially now, is in fact us. But in fact, my stepbrother, Sean and Kevin Jason, you know him very well, Ryan. you know, he's admitted that the triangle craft that he saw, he really feels like that was piloted by people. Now, where the tech came from, of course, that's a whole roundabout chasing the tail answer.

You know, did it come from the grays or something else or something off planet? But, I mean, of course, I want it to be something. E.T. I think that would be amazing. Yeah, what do you think, Seth? What do I personally think? I have no idea. Yeah, that's a good answer. That's the answer I was looking for.

But the episode is One thing I can say about this episode I'm not these haven't come out yet So I'm supposed to really be selling these So everyone watch it This episode is great It's my least favorite at the entire Oh good salesperson right there

He's an honest filmmaker I like it Having said that It's not because I think the episode's solid I think we I like the fact that we We have a native perspective in it I like the fact that you kind of get a broad spectrum of different opinions on what is going on. So it has nothing to do with the content of the episode.

I just kind of find this aspect of the whole thing boring. Like honestly, I don't think we know what is piloting the UFOs. And I don't think we know if some of them are being piloted by anything. And it's just such a, as weird as that seems, that is not like the, topic of all of this that really draws me in. And also, like, I didn't, this, this episode was, was, uh, mostly edited by Luke, Luke Gall. So this was the episode where episode three and episode four had an assistant editor, um, my

friend Luke Gall and he, he did a lot of the editing on this one. But, um, that has nothing to do with why it's not. Poor, Lou. Yeah, sure. You just drop the ball on that. That just came right out. It honestly just comes down to, um, it honestly just comes down to, to the topic not being my favorite.

So what is your favorite aspect out of any of it then? What does draw you in? Well, see, like what draws me in and what my favorite episode or whatever are completely different. No, yeah, just to the subject itself,

what draws you in the most? Well, the mystery light thing is my favorite. And I don't know if that's, again, I don't know if you can include that as UFOs. So if it's not that, it's probably going to be,

it's probably going to be my typical answer of like the historical, the historical, the historical. I'm just kidding. You know, the early, like, 1940s is my favorite era of euphology, or the late 1940s is my favorite era of euphology. And so, like, it's that stuff. It's the Cold War era.

I mean, it ramped up so much in the 40s and 50s that the, you know, the government got involved, the, you know, Project Blue Book and all that good stuff. So, no, that makes complete sense. One thing I do have to say I adore about this episode is the opening and the bookends. I love that it opens with Exeter. I love Exeter. I loved that Joe Hill lived there and I didn't know it until after we were there. And I just loved, I love the stuff with Shannon on the beach at the end walking because that sunset was unfreeking believable.

We took so much footage of that sunset. It was amazing. Yeah. Yeah. And I just liked the way all that came together with. her in the location in exeter kind of talking to to the people all of us really talking to the people about you know like where where the actual exeter event happened it's a different opening from any of the other episodes too because it opens with a witness story not not that

the witness was there but it opens with a UFO story and then goes into like what the actual topic of the episode is so i i do i do the fact that this is my least favor has nothing to do with the actual content of the episode i really like the episode as a whole. And I love that the Exeter stuff especially. And I love the, I love Malava's interview, I have to say. I really, having that perspective in there is really important. The one downside to that is his interview was like an hour and a half.

And his interview is distilled into three minutes. And, you know, like if he watches that, he's probably going to hate it because obviously to boil down what he thinks. And this is part of the narration says to boil down or to distill what his belief system is about UFOs into like one tiny little chunk is almost impossible. But he had so much to say about that stuff and the origins of not just the UFOs, but like the aunt people and all that kind of stuff. I hope we can use more of that an interview if we can do a season two because his interviews really is. really cool. Yeah, I loved getting that native perspective. It's super important. I mean, some of our greatest stories of the star people and all these sorts of things come from the

Native Americans. And I'm digging a lot deeper into that in future episodes of somewhere in the skies, too. So I'm so happy that you are able to do that and get that perspective of it, because it's very important, I think, when it comes to the overall phenomenon. And this, all right, this is my favorite episode, guys. Chapter 5. the stuff they don't want you to know. This is where we get to the dark and sexy government cover-up angle to all this. And we tackle Area 51, military involvement. So what surprised you to the most about covering this aspect of UFOs?

And do you have any sort of personal thoughts on which things are clearly a cover-up? And what was just sort of maybe born out of a mythology, I guess? Shannon, you start. You're going to throw me in this one. Yeah. No, I mean, I don't think. You're our Area 51 expert. Come on. Yeah, for real.

Yeah, right? Since it's just right in my back yard, you know, since I see UFOs every day since I'm in Vegas, that's the go-to right there. Never seen one really, actually, except for the orb in Washington State. So there you go. So as far as Area 51 goes, just in general, I don't think anything would surprise me either way. If all of it was manmade, okay, that makes sense. Or if all of it was alien craft, which would be amazing, but that also would not be that surprise.

See, UFOs in and of themselves, that's going to sound really stupid, but they're almost, they're not boring to me. They're just, they're like, yeah, I totally get it. And it makes sense. And how could we be the only things out there? So, I mean, something like a Bigfoot or a dog man, especially a dog man, don't get me sorry on that, but a wolf man. Those are really kind of crazy cool to me.

UFOs make so much sense that maybe that's why I don't cover them so much on end of the fray. But as far as Area 51 goes, the thing that chases its tail so much out there is the fact that, you know, you had something like the Blackbird out there at one point, you know, sitting on top of a huge spike. I know I've told this with you on Ryan before. It's one of my favorite stories out of 51. They would bring it out during the day and they'd be doing the time. testing on it and it was up on this massive pole. And then they'd take it in, or I'm sorry, they'd bring it out at night, but the desert was still, the heat from the day would still be basically give the outline of the blackbird underneath it.

They would take it in and think they were so sneaky. Meanwhile, the Russian satellites go over and they see the exact basically cut out of the blackbird. And they know exactly what the hell we were working on. So, you know, then makes you kind of go, are we really that smart? Are we really smart enough to be coming up with something like a TR3B, which we do have, which Sean has admitted that he thinks that's probably what he saw that day outside of Area 51 or that night? But I think that where the tail chasing, sorry I said this earlier, where this comes from is the fact that people go, well, there is manmade stuff. Well, yeah, sure, but it did this crazy maneuver. Well, how do we get that technology?

And then it's chasing its tail as far as, well, did it come from off planet? And now we're just reproducing that. Somehow we have to back engineer that. Or did we actually come up with all of that on our own? So I don't know. I mean, that is the proper question, I think, as far as what's going on out there, really. I like, I like, whatever I do an interview, I'm always like, I'm trying to find a hook. So my hook now is going to be, I'm going to let Shannon talk about the, this.

the actual stuff you're asking, and I'm just going to ramble about, like, filmmaking stuff. So this episode... This episode... You guys make such a good team. This episode is my favorite of the series, actually, because the opening is so unique

from anything else that's come in anything, SDM. It feels more like an action movie or Ferris Bueller. I called it my Ferris Bueller opening, because it's like Shannon is very much. much breaking the fourth wall. And it gets really meta at the beginning. And also, our color, the guy that did the color on the entire series had a blast doing this episode because so much of it is in the desert.

He created a color palette that he kept in an adjustment layer. He put it on the adjustment layer. And it was just called Tony Scott. And it's because the entire episode looks like a Tony Scott move. like top gun or something. It looks like a Tony Scott movie. And especially the parts with Shannon at Area 51. So this is my favorite episode.

And also I do love the conspiracy and government cover-up angle of uphology. And I do think- An exercise bike back there. They are. You're hearing that. Yeah. Sorry about that. It's in the distance.

You're exercising. I like that. Yeah. You're killing three birds with ones. Don't I like it. No, it's. I have a stationary bike in the basement that's like 40 years old. And if either of us use it, it sounds like someone's trying to.

Oh, it's joking. It really is an exercise bike. Oh, it's 100%. No, I am being, I am dead serious. I'm sorry. I'm dead serious. Sorry. At least someone's exercising.

Yeah, seriously. So anyway, yeah, the, the actual, like, the actual conspiracy angle of all of this is, is one of my favorite aspects of the subject. And to get to go to Area 51 and have the insanity that happened as meeting that guy that, you know, we got to interview there. And it being the same day that sort of the Area 51 storm Area 51 stuff blew up and all that. It was just, it was insane that that happened. Yeah. So, yeah.

As far as the, you know, the film aspect of it, I will say just to add this in, nothing makes you. look like more of a badass than slow motion. That's so true. Just got to love it. Yeah. Well, I mean, you guys had some interesting stuff happen when you went there. We'll leave that for the audience to see because that was pretty exciting. But yeah, that was probably one of my favorites to Seth.

So I totally understand why. Well, then we moved to Chapter 6, let it shine. This was pretty cool. This is something I've never really looked into, but I was so happy to see that you guys made it to North Carolina with our mutual friend. Michael Hanks and you covered the orbs, which is a huge part of uphology that a lot of people don't know about. So yeah, what was it like going to Brown Mountain and, you know, the Marfa lights in Texas you guys covered and several others? So, yeah, what was it like actually going out there and doing some sky watching and all that? Yeah, Shannon.

What was it like? I was, you know, I mean, it's Brown Mountain. I mean, I was extremely expectant and excited. And, of course, to meet Micah Hanks was amazing. and yeah, it was a beautiful location. It's funny because even though you've seen footage of the area or you see pictures of the area, until you go there, you're like, oh, this isn't exactly what I thought it was going to be. But it was, I mean, it was more because it was, as far as what he was explaining, there was such a bigger area that you were supposed to be watching. And actually, I think that Seth and I were looking at the wrong place before Micah got there, which was, I mean, these things happen, you know, when you've never been at a place before I was both of our first times at Brown Mountain.

But Mike's like, oh, no, it's actually over here. We're like, oh, whoopsie. We were off to the left there a little bit. Sorry. But, you know, the whole area there has such mystique to it. And, you know, as far as orbs go, that is something that I have experienced, Mike's. And, you know, we'll have to leave it for the audience to see, you know, what has actually gone down at Brown Mountain for us. But for me, that was, I was super excited to go to that location. And we were very lucky to have Micah take the time to meet us up there on the mountain. The mystery light thing was a big part of the series for me. I don't know why I was so insistent on getting it in here because there was other stuff we could have covered. You know, like there was, there's no, I don't think we make any, there's no denying the fact that we barely.

scratch the surface of UFOs with this series. Welcome to my world every day of my life. Yeah. I mean, like we, that's the thing is if we can do a season two, there's no problem. Like we can keep doing the same format. It's different from Bigfoot in that way.

Like Bigfoot, I had to come up with a completely new format for season two of on the trail of Bigfoot, but for UFOs, you can keep doing this because there's so much to explore. But Mystery Lights were a big part of the series for me. and getting to go to Brown Mountain was weird because it was weird for a couple of reasons. One, I realized while I was there that we were like right down the road from where a good chunk of my family is from within like 20.

Wouldn't you say like 20 minutes, Shannon, where we jump by? Yes. So a good chunk of my family, my dad's side of the family is from there. And then the other thing is like I grew up going to a camp in Mary in North Carolina for most of my life. and Marion is there. Like, that is Marion. In fact, Brown Mountain is a Marion zip code. So it was also weird in the fact that Lake James, which is where the camp was,

that I used to go as a kid, is like right over the mountain from Brown Mountain. So apparently I'd been there most of my life and just never realized that was from Brown Mountain. Wow. So, yeah, we had a lot of fun up there. I think that that night was super memorable. And again, like that felt like sort of classic. on the trail of to me. It felt like we were actually adventuring

and doing something cool. And then that episode also has some really neat eyewitness stories. It's got Matt Chang's orb story and then it's got Greg Cannon's encounter as well. And Greg, I actually shot Greg's interview at an event in Pennsylvania, but I was really excited to get someone in there

who'd actually seen the brown mountain lights since Micah has failed to ever see the brown mountain lights. So that was important to me as well. But yeah, that was a lot of fun doing that episode. And that episode was also the most draining of all the episodes because there's so many effect shots. Like I said, my estimate is 40 or 50 effect shots in that episode. And Santino did 12.

And I probably did, actually, there's more. There's like 14 of Santino's shots in that. but he did 12 specifically for that episode and then I reused a couple and I probably did 20 of myself and then there's a bunch of effect shots in there from other people as well plus all of Mark Randall's illustrations

that episode is just visually it is wall to wall effects and then you get some really cool footage of what might be an actual Brown Mountain light so that's cool too. Yeah that was pretty cool again this one yeah you're right Seth it really felt like

on the trail when you guys are out there boots on the ground experiencing this stuff. So that was super invigorating. Well, then we move to probably one of the most controversial parts of all of this when it comes to the UFOs. A lot of researchers shy away from it and some embrace it entirely. And that's the abduction phenomenon. So can you tell us a little about what and who you explore in this episode? And maybe some of the theories you guys came across when it comes to abduction.

what they might represent. This episode was the hardest to put together from a storytelling standpoint. I have a whiteboard in my office. And for most of the episodes, I had to do sort of the classic like arrow, you know, story point to story point. So in my head as I'm editing, it would make sense where each piece of the story needs to go, you know. And this episode, that changed constantly. And I storyboarded it on a, as I was editing. it really was difficult because 35, this episode is the longest, it's 35, it's around 35, 36 minutes,

something like that. But I mean, you really get a good overview of what abduction, the abduction phenomenon is and how weird it gets and how strange some of the theories and stuff are regarding what is behind the actual abductions. And as I was, as we were shooting this episode, I did not have any. intention of making this a Betty and Barney Hill episode, but it really does end up feeling like a Betty and Barney Hill episode. It definitely has the bookend of being Betty and Barney Hill at the beginning and the end. You know, it's got Shannon and Adam and Alexander talking about them sort of to wrap everything up. And then at the beginning, it's us climbing to the top of artist Nook and you get to see some of those video clips of what was Betty's last interview. And a huge thanks to John Horg.

for giving me those clips too and letting us use those because I think that's kind of a really important piece of the episode is to have Betty actually on camera talking about the abduction and stuff. But I learned a lot in making this episode. I think the thing that stands out the most to me is that some of these experiencers view their abduction as a very positive thing, even when that seems to fly in the face. of rational thinking. And the one that really stands out is Gary Tribert's abduction story where he was, he had,

he was driving to get beer one night and saw this light sort of paralleling his car, came around and bend in the road. And there was a car in the middle, or a, the UFO, a light in the middle of the road. And that's sort of all he remembers. He wakes up three hours later. But that's like just the beginning of everything. He's got all this, you know, the physical manifestations, things. start happening to him that he doesn't understand.

He's waking up with like bloody noses and scoop marks and his neck and all this kind of stuff. And it all sounds terrible. And then it gets to the point where it's happening to his children as well. And yet when we talk to him and asked him about how he felt about it, it wasn't, he didn't seem to think it was negative. And that was so strange to me to sort of wrap my brain around. And, oh, Ryan, one thing I have to say about episode six, just real quick while I'm thinking of this.

Thank you for tying episode six back into the UFO subject because you did it so well and that freaked me out so bad with episode six because I was like, how am I going to even keep this sort of tied in to the rest of it? And you and Michael Huntington did such a good job of explaining like these are UAPs. Like this is still a piece of the overall puzzle. So anyway, just one thing of it. I hadn't mentioned that. Oh, oh, you're welcome.

I totally meant to do that. Yeah, I figured. That's so cool. That's what it's about, man. Connecting the dots. Episode 7 is also visually probably the most stunning of the entire series because we were filming in the White Mountains at peak, like, fall foliage season. And it's funny because the episode is absolutely, like, stunningly gorgeous, but the subject matter

is super disturbing. So I like that weird dichotomy that's going on. Yeah. We'll show up into the dichotomy. like it. Dicotomy twice in one episode. We just need Ryan to use it before we're done. Then we've got the hat trick.

Well, Shannon, what is the dichotomy between what you think abductions are? No. Well, I got to Ashen. You've interviewed experiencers in the past on your show. You and I spoke to several from my book on an episode of Into the Frey at one point. I mean, I'm knee deep in alien abduction experiences. But coming at it from your side of it, what did you make of this episode when it comes to abductions?

I mean, I think that the abduction scenario, and you go from the classic, like the Streber kind to, you know, I recently talked to a woman for ITF that she saw a craft and it seemed to just open up other experiences. Like, it just opened the door for her, just like when Seth was talking about Gary Tribert. And, you know, it kind of turns into this thing where there's a tree and then there's lights around the tree and it becomes what she tantamounts as. some kind of portal or something. And then this being comes out, right? And I'm just kind of going to play off of you Ryan to see if you've heard anything like this. But she had a name for him because someone else talked. I'm so bad at this UFO stuff.

Here I go. Are ready. Anyhow, maybe it'll come to you. But this being stuff's out. She knows it's quote unquote an alien being because it's not human, so it's an alien. And he's wearing a belt of some sort, but there's a light in the middle of this belt. and she gave it a name and by God I should, I knew I should have brought that notebook up just in case,

but she gave it a name and said, well, I don't think it was so and so, but it could have been so and so that this person talks about. There's a certain being that comes to people sometimes, and there was really no true interaction or anything, and she didn't see it at all negative, no negative in this story. But the dichotomy of, you know, you have Streber, but then you have these other experiences where they just,

it's like kind of more the light and love crowd, which sometimes is a four-letter word in and of itself too. But it is such, like you said, you can get so knee-deep or waist-deep or neck-deep in just the abduction stuff. It is mind-boggling. But, you know, as far as Betty and Barney Hill, the question that came up with a show that Seth and I were also

on last week was, you know, what was the, like the location that it like blew your mind or whatever. And both of us said Betty and Barney Hill just because of the isolation factor. And even today, if you go out there, it is very isolated. And, you know, without the use of cell phones or feeling like you could really reach out to anyone, no matter what it was, it would be absolutely terrifying to have that experience where you have nowhere to go and you feel like you have something that has ultimate control and you're just in your put-put car and you can't go anywhere and now you have something where you're like,

oh, is this great, an off-planet entity wants to interact with me? This is wonderful. Great, fantastic. You know, you've got Travis Walton's story, whatever people want to make of any of that stuff. You can go down the list of abductees and be like, well, I don't know what to make of that. And honestly, even Streber has admitted, you know, he finally said, I don't know what the hell all that was.

But whatever it is, does it, at the end of the day, though, and this is something, you know, for the episodes that we go through and for this series, it's all downs of the people. Like, that's the big picture of the whole thing anyway. So does it even matter if it's people just. effing with other people at the end of the day that the perception of it almost is the most important thing or is it grazed or something off planet it's all about the perception and the trauma that the person goes through yep i mean i i've been preaching this since day one in my research of it does it comes down to the people and how it affects them and what they take from that i mean i think that's where disclosure truly happens and i'll ask your guys opinion on disclosure in a little bit but

yeah i think one by one the people have having UFO experiences, whether it's just a light in the sky, or a claimed abduction experience. Like, it's what you take from that and what you choose to do with it, whether it's never talk about it again or embrace it or start a cult, I don't know, but it's crazy. Like, the amount of people that have claimed that this has happened to him, yeah, we have no solid verifiable evidence of it being a legitimate physical phenomenon. So you do really have to wonder. I mean, yeah, we come across scoop marks and implants and this, that, this, that, but there's no definitive answer as to what these things are, why they're taking people,

and yeah, it's scary to me. When people say it's love and light and it was an amazing experience, I find that really hard to believe. I mean, these things are happening against your will time and time again. But again, I've never been abducted, so I can't speak on what someone takes from their own experience, but it's a fascinating subset of the UFO phenomenon. And I'm so happy you guys tackled it because you had to. Let's be honest. Well, even without the abduction stuff, though, if I saw a being come out a damn tree, Belt or nobody, he could be stark nude and be the, you know, looking like Jason Mamoa,

I don't give a crap. It's not going, I'm going to freak out. It's, I don't think that I would be like, this is, yeah, I'm going to sleep great this week. This could be amazing. I mean, yeah. Good, good point. Absolutely. Well, we moved to the last episode, Chapter 8, Longer Way to Go. And this, this one I kind of want to leave for the end of our conversation. But before we do that, guys, I've got some listener questions. Do you mind if I fire through these with you? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Cool. These are going to be fun. These are going to be fun. So, you know, kind of rounding out the abduction thing. Cody on Twitter asks, on the topic of abductions, what is the earliest recorded abduction case that you guys came across?

us. The oldest that we have that seems, if nothing else, at least they have the missing time element is that 1600s Boston, Massachusetts area story that Dean Merchant tells in the seventh episode, where you had the guys rowing down the river and they see what they call sort of like a swine-shaped object in the sky. And then they blank out and they've somehow traveled like, many miles down this river and it's hours later.

So that's the oldest, like, I guess, missing time case that we came across while we were making this, or abduction case, I guess you'd call it. All right. Well, Evan on Twitter asks, the traveling you guys did alone in the series seemed very expensive, at least from, you know, the trailer that a lot of people have seen. And aside from UFOs, I mean, the main topic of the series, did a certain area? really speak to you guys or surprise you personally? Well, we've talked about the

Betty and Barney Hill location in the White Mountains for sure. But I think my absolute favorite, the spot I think about almost daily still and really want to go back to Sedona. Just watching the sunset in Sedona and the weather and just the experience of being. That West Coast trip with Shannon, Jason, and Brandon was really special. And that one little stop was sort of, that was really important.

Yeah, I agree. Having the boys in my backyard and being able to show them everything around here. But also that was my first time to Sedona. So yeah, I would agree. I would say that that hike out, we're trying to find the vortexes. And, you know, you'll have to see if we found them. And maybe we're talking from one right now. But, yeah, sitting up on top of the rocks and there was a whole bunch of people up there for that very reason.

You know, there was people trying to park and there was no parking and they're trying to scramble up these damn rocks to watch the sunset. And boy, it was worth it. Beautiful. That's awesome. See, even, you know, again, aside from UFOs, like what you take away from just this journey alone, I'm sure, gives you a deeper respect for how diverse the U.S. really is. It's massive. Like the trip, that's what I said is weird because we, I actually went to more places in on the trail of Bigfoot. But this felt expansive is a great word for it.

It felt really, really, really just gigantic. When you really, I mean, there's things that we shot that did not make it into the series like Shannon at Cape Canaveral. Like, we were at Cape Canaveral and it's not in the series. And, you know, it's, it's, it felt enormous in scope and to close out it in Los Angeles, like one of the most populated cities on Earth. and, you know, but still have that butted up against places like the Chestnut Ridge and the White Mountains is really astonishing. You get this piece, this cross section of America that we don't see often. And I think it actually brings us more together these things than tears us apart, you know, and that's hard in the world today. So I got to thank you guys both for that before we continue here.

So, yeah. Yeah, I think that's the biggest part. of on the trail of like so far so far if you really go through all three of the on the trail of champ bigfoot and UFOs it's the sense of place is probably the biggest special effect on the entire thing yeah it becomes its own character for sure um well pete on facebook asks shannon is chasing the paranormal and hosting a podcast your full-time occupation or um is this sort of like a side thing when you're not working uh he finds it amazing that you know what a person could actually like make a living doing these sorts of things.

And he says how freaking cool that is. So yeah, what do you got for that one if you're willing to share? It would be amazing, I would say. I don't know quite what that's like yet. But, you know, for all of you guys out there, Ryan Sprague and I actually share a birthday, August 8th. And that is not the only thing that we share, though. We share a way to make money besides our podcasting and book endeavors. I'm newly into that, of course.

but we both are bartenders. So that is what I do for the bulk of my mullah. Yeah, yeah, got to pay them bills, guys. We, you know, as much as we'd like to be full-time researchers, this is often a side thing for us, a passion, you know. We clearly don't do it for the money. So that's the reality of all of this. There is certainly a misnomer out there that just because you have a podcast

and maybe even a book or two out there that you're making a ton of money. but get into it and let's see how you guys do. Yeah, you're often in the red. Let's be completely honest. Yeah, absolutely. Well, Sean on Facebook asks, after working on this series, do either of you have a deeper belief in the UFO phenomenon? Like, did it change your beliefs at all?

That's a good question. It's funny because I've been asked, like, if I've been asked if the, if I came into this, if I feel like coming out of this that I know more or less, and I think I feel like I know less about UFOs. That's just that's kind of where I am. Like I don't I know that I'm I'm much more

fascinated in the actual phenomenon now than I was. Like before I think there were little things that drew me to it. And obviously like I love the encounter stories and stuff like that. And like I said, the Cold War era, but I think I'm much more fascinated by the phenomenon as a whole now than I was before.

So that's That's a big part of it for me. Yeah, I think the more you know, the less, you know. I've brought that up on several episodes, you know. But then we start to ask new questions. I think that's definitely exciting. Shannon, how do you feel? Have your beliefs in UFOs or the topic in general changed at all?

I mean, I think the belief for it is maybe a little bit strong and, you know, no offense to Sean or anything. It's not a misplately misplaced word, but I would say yes just because of the fact, that, and it's not so much the UFO phenomenon itself. It's a belief, here we go with the belief, sorry, it's a knowing that there is something going on and it is certainly affecting people. And I say, yes, it has changed me in a way and have a deeper knowing that something's going on because I've never had a chance to sit down and talk to so many people back to back face to face. Yeah, absolutely. I know. And when you start to bring it together like that, it just becomes a lot more stronger, stronger.

The case to be said for UFO has become stronger the more people you talk to. Well, in terms of that, what are your, Bruce wants to know from Facebook, what are your personal thoughts on disclosure? And do you think we'll ever have it in our lifetime and in what form might it take? What do you guys think about that, Seth?

No. I think we will probably hear something about UFOs being, you know, I mean, I think we've already had like the admittance that that UFOs are real from the government. But no, I don't think we're going to get some sort of like, yes, aliens are here and they've been visiting Earth for X amount of, I don't see that happening. Totally agree. Yeah. No, yeah. Yeah.

That would be my answer exactly. I couldn't agree more with you guys. I think, again, it comes down to each person one by one having these experiences. I think that's disclosure from them alone. And yeah, I mean, since that New York Times article came out, a lot of people consider that disclosure. You know, the government said UFOs exist. Now it's the question of what are they?

What do they want? Who's in control of them? So, yeah, I would have to agree with you guys on that. Well, let's see. Ami on Facebook asks, would you guys, could you name a current paranormal or Fortyana researcher's body of work that you're a fan of and why?

on the opposite side if there's a researcher or body of work that you think too many people give credit or praised. Oh, damn. He really, he really wants us to answer that second one, huh? He wants to, oh, man. Depends on how negative you guys want to go with this. Who do you look up? We can be negative, but, you know.

Let me, yeah, let me, well, so does it have to be euphology, or is it kind of I think, you know, in terms of 40 on, I guess we don't talk about anything. Yeah. Okay. Well, I'm going to go with a bunch of names that everyone's going to be like, oh, he's so boring. But Lauren Coleman, like, you know, go read old Lauren Coleman stuff. It's super cool. Like his 1970s work is really cool.

And Jerome Clark is cool. Jerome and Lauren actually did a book together that's pretty rad. I think it's called the unidentified in the reprint, but that wasn't the original title. And now I can't remember what the original title was. But Ivan Sanderson, I really like reading his old stuff. John Keel is pretty cool. I have issues with John's Mothman work right now

that is only getting more and more present in my mind as the days go by, but I still really like John's work and the way he wrote. He was a good writer. and let me think I'm trying to think of like someone more recent that I that I'm like have been getting into but I I feel like I plow through so many books

just trying to get research done that if I don't really get to really appreciate that kind of stuff so I don't know man oh Tobias Wayland's Lake Michigan Mothman books really cool I just just I mean there's a reason I want to work with Tobias and that book's part of

part of it oh and then um uh the the um the um Pine Barrens Institute guy. Now I totally blanked on his name, but he did the book about historical monsters that I'm also failing to remember the name of the book. I'm going to find this. I'm not helping at all.

I'm trying to, I'm like a pine barons. I can see like the logo and everything. I'm sorry. Shannon, you go and I'll get it in my head and I'll get it on Google. Yeah. Now Siri can come into play. He already mentioned two names that I had written down. Coleman and Keel

I mean John Keel is a go-to for most of us and you know I want to talk to Forteana Bigfoot I love Will Jevning if you're talking about like you get into Dogman stuff you got you know Linda Godfrey I mean there's

there is a lot of people out there doing a lot of fantastic work Adam Benedict Adam Benedict there it is boom thank you Google no I mean I'm I'm so much on the

plane that we're Seth as I'm kind of going my wheels or turning. I've talked to a billion people, and I can't remember six names to give you guys. But, you know, those are some of the heavy hitters out there, I think, that are doing fantastic work. They've been doing it for a very long time. They're very passionate about it.

But, of course, the second we hang up, we're going to go, why didn't I mention so and so? David Weatherly. David, yeah. Yeah, we could mention half the people that we talk to for, you know, on the trail of UFOs, because a lot of these people are much like us in that they study a lot of different

subject matter. So, you know, Micah Hanks, I mean, you know, these are people that they do the podcast. They do the books. They, you know, they go to the conferences. They do all of these things. Yeah. Well, what I think is interesting, too,

is a lot of Shannon, the ITF crowd, they always wondered when you, me and Sam would meet and on the trail of UFOs is what finally made it happen. That was awesome. Incredible. It would have been great, of course,

to have it all at the same time, but it was on two separate coasts. You were not in L.A. still at that time. So, but hey, we met that was all that mattered. And I think I was like, this is going to implode the internet finally when I post pictures with the boys, you know, because that was a long time coming. So we have to thank Seth for that. He's the one that made that happen. You know, and of course, me trying to, like, pressure you guys, like, you're going to do this.

Like, you're going to get on camera. I don't care what you say. No, it was a long time coming. And of course, it would be UFOs that brought us together. So I couldn't be happier about that. But let's see here. Oh, here's our last listener question. Philip on Facebook asks,

if you two could ask one question of a government insider with alleged access to high-level details on the UFO subject, what would it be? What was the Kexburgh craft? Yeah, that's a good one, man. I'm going to keep my comments to myself. Oh, okay. On the Kexper case.

Seth already knows because of my brain. He's been around me long enough. He's like, shut up, shooting. It looks like something, but... Yeah, I'm just gonna... I'm just gonna... I'm just gonna know. I don't want to know. No.

Yeah, you know. Because you've been... You've talked to me enough as well. No, mine would be hands down. Have we ever recovered, or do we have now the classic gray aliens? I want to, like, do we have the bodies? Do we have, have we ever had one alive? Have we ever recovered anything like that? Classic gray. That's a good question. I like it. Let's see. I guess going back to chapter eight of the series, longer way to go. Yes, a lot of big questions in this series. So do you feel you met the goal as you sort of set out to do with the project? Or what do you kind of hope the audience will take away from on the trail of UFOs? Seth, I guess we'll start with you.

Yeah, that's cool because it's funny. Behind the scenes, what Shannon and I talked about a lot, and it's in the second trailer, but it's not in the series, it's like this idea that people used to look to the skies with a sense of wonder and curiosity, and that's kind of gone. And it's mentioned a couple times throughout the series, but it's not really driven home as much as I would have liked it for it to have been. And that's because the mission statement of the series change.

That was originally the mission statement in the series is like, you know, people don't look to the skies and, you know, that kind of stuff. And then it became more about like, people don't put the focus on people. And so that became the mission statement. So maybe for season two, we'll do the other thing. But yeah, I think, wait, what was the wording of the specific question you asked me before I start rambling? Because I want to make sure I actually answer it. How did you word that again? How do you word?

Yeah, yeah. What do you hope the audience will take away from? Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, I think, I think it's, it really is just the fact that the subject itself is, is worthy of looking into, regardless of how skeptical or whatever you are, that the subject itself is looking into devoid of the celebrities and the, man, maybe the, some of the programming you might already have hardwired into you because of movie.

movies, you know, of this being a terrifying subject to look into. And it's all scary movie stuff and that kind of thing. Like there is something very, very innocent, not innocent. That's totally wrong word. Not innocent, but there is something awe-inspiring about the idea that there are things flying around our skies that we don't know what they are in a world where we have the technology we do. You know, and it's kind of the same way that I feel about like something like Bigfoot.

You can look into this stuff and come at it from your own place, like your own perspective, and don't feel like you have to be hardwired by what television and books and all that kind of stuff tells you. Just come into it and figure things out for yourself. And it's a subject worth looking into and spending time. on. And if nothing else, you'll meet some really cool people. You'll also meet a ton of crazies and a lot of people that will, there's going to be times where you feel very demoralized being involved in this. But it is worth looking into and spending time on and yeah, bring your own,

perspective to it. And if nothing else, it's like Greg Bishop kept talking about, and put the focus on the people. Like, you know, like my goal became to put the focus on every one. one like not just not just the experiencers and the witnesses but that that's probably the most important part of it but but also like people like ryan like why why is ryan into this why did why has ryan spent so much time on him why you know like what drives right but those things get overlooked a lot you know like we're someone like ron regere's been in this for like 50 years same as stan gordon like 50 years of his life longer you know maybe longer for stan like invested in looking to the skies and uh what what drives someone to do that and what kind of impact will that

have you know i asked you ryan like at the when when when you die when is this going to have been worth your time you know like essentially that was what i asked you and like um there are some philosophical questions to get brought up in that last episode i think i forget about but um but yeah that's the biggest thing it's just man get there's a ton to this subject beyond what you're going to find on on on on TV and and and I'm not running down television either I'm saying that the crowd that comes into this is and and the younger people that are going to come into this are going to come into it because of whatever's on television or whatever's online that they're checking out like that's what's going to drive them to the subject but look beyond that like there's

there's a lot more absolutely yeah shan do you have anything to add to that I have nothing to add I mean Seth said it beautifully um no I did And I think it just ties back into something I'll parrot from earlier is that just being able to sit with so many different kinds of people with varying beliefs in the subject and different, they've got a different mindset as far as the tactics they go about either trying to, you know, contact it or, you know, from an experience or standpoint, maybe trying to figure out just what in the hell happen to them, really. And again, the perception comes into that, not to just rehash what I said. But yeah, I think just being able to sit down with so many different kinds of people is something that, I mean, it's going to stay with me forever. And I think that it definitely got me way more into the subject of UFOs than I was before. Yay, we got another one. I love it.

Hooked me in. Oh, crap. Well, guys, this has been amazing. before we go, can you maybe tell us a little about what projects you got coming next? Seth, what can we expect from small town monsters moving forward? And yeah, give us everything that's coming next, man. Yeah, well, we added a whole new production for this year. Yeah, that was quite a surprise.

You didn't have enough to do. It was kind of surprising to us, honestly. It's, so on the trail of UFOs is coming out March 20th, Amazon, Vimeo on Demand, coming to DVD and Bluray. We are, oh, heck, who cares? We're negotiating to get like a wide release for this thing. I don't know how those negotiations are going to go. I'm not crazy about distributors. I remain to not be crazy about distributors.

But we are negotiating with a distributor that would get this out to a much larger audience. So hopefully that goes well. and we can do that, and if that's the case, it'll be sort of everywhere. But regardless, after on the Trail of UFOs, we are beginning production for On the Trail of the Lake Michigan Mothman. This will start shooting on March 26th in Chicago. So I will be in Chicago with, again, like on the Trail of just constantly has a shifting cast of crew.

And this one won't have Shannon, unfortunately. it's going to be a new, well, our leads in this one are Tobias and Emily Whalen. And so we'll be sort of investigating the Mothman Lake Michigan stuff with them. This will be shot by, this is what I'm most excited about it. So I've been trying to work with Andrew Peterson for like four years. Andrew used to do a website. I can't remember. I think it was like weird Midwest or something like that.

Oh, yeah, yeah, I remember that. But he's an amazing cinematographer. And he's, him and I have been talking for years about working together. We couldn't get it together. This is going to be the project where he's finally going to be a DP for something that I'm directing. So this is going to be really cool. It's going to be shot by him. It's going to have a very investigative detective vibe.

I mostly just sent him a bunch of photos from the movie Brick with Joseph Gordon, Leavitt to tell him what I'm envisioning for this. So this is going to be a special on the trail of two because it's not episodic. It's going to be basically what we're calling it is like a special episode of a TV show. So you know how like TV shows like TGIF, we all know family matters and all that. They would do the special episodes and maybe like an hour long or whatever. That's what this is going to be. It's going to be a special episode of On the Trail of it's going to be extended and it's going to be about one.

topic. So that'll be out hopefully in June, late June is what we're trying to do with that. It's going to be a quick turnaround. We are in production for the Mothman Legacy and at the end of the year we'll be putting out the mark of the bellwitch. We are also filming on the trail of Bigfoot season two over the course of this year. The big trip coming up for that one is going to be British Columbia, which I'll be doing in August for on the trail of Bigfoot season. season two. And we are also hoping on the Trail of UFOs season one does really well

so we can launch season two. So if you're interested in seeing on the Trail of UFOs do more, please watch and support on the Trail of UFOs season one. I think that's it. We have a book coming out called Making Monsters that will be out

for Kickstarter backers. There may be a few copies available in our web store, but not many. That's awesome. man. Shan, how about you? What do you got coming up? Well, I've got the second book, Beyond the Frey Paramalgamation, which will be coming out hopefully in the next few weeks. We're going to look for an early release on that. And, of course, Beyond the Frey Bigfoot is out. And I'm still doing the podcast. It comes out every Thursday, 7 p.m. PST, Into the Frayradi Radio.com.

And, of course, any and all podcatchers, YouTube, IHeard Radio, Spotify, the usual offenders for catching a podcast. Right. And then I also saw you put out a call for UFO stories. Is that right? Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Absolutely. And, you know, not to steal any thunder from your show, of course, Ryan, because that seems like a little bit of a budding of heads there. But yeah, I am looking for, of course, some that are willing to come on the show and some that maybe or not. They don't ever want to come on a podcast in their whole life. Maybe they just want to write it out. out to me or have a private conversation and then I translate that into the written word. So yeah, thank you so much. Yeah, of course. I always say it. The more UFO stories out there, the more we can normalize the topic and get more people interested and involved and show people this is a topic worth pursuing, which I think is the epitome of what on the trail of UFOs has done for me personally and for a lot more people out there, I hope. So yes, I got to thank both of you guys for

coming on today. This has been absolutely amazing, not just talking to you, but being a part of this. I was so honored to just give my thoughts and opinions on all the research I've done throughout the years to an audience who will hopefully take something away from that.

And yeah, I can't wait to see this series in its entirety and I know my audience will too. So thank you to the both of you for coming on Somewhere in the Skies. Yeah, thanks for having us. Thanks, Ratham. Somewhere in the Skies is produced by third kind productions in association with the Entertainment One podcast network.

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