Somewhere in the Skies - Punk Rock and UFOs: Stranger than Fiction

Episode Date: June 15, 2020

On episode 165 of SOMEWHERE IN THE SKIES, author and journalist, Mike Damante returns to talk about his latest book, Punk Rock and UFOs: Stranger than Fiction. Mythological Gods. Dragons. Magicians. Inter-dimensional beings. UFOs. Goblins. Secret government programs. Psychic abilities. These can't be real... or can they? Punk Rock and UFOs: Stranger Than Fiction aims to normalize the paranormal through current pop culture, mythology, fiction and its connection to unexplained phenomena. The book features insights and exclusive interviews from around academia, journalism, television and film, pop culture, science, and UFO studies like Tom DeLonge, Leslie Kean, Kevin Day, Sean Cahill, Jeffrey Kripal, Peter Levenda, David Marquez (DC Comics), Rick Strassman, Diana Pasulka, and others. Somewhere in the Skies proudly stands with the Black Lives Matter movement. Please consider donating to any of the organizations or causes at: https://nymag.com/strategist/article/where-to-donate-for-black-lives-matter.html Order the book by CLICKING HERE Visit Mike at: www.punkrockandufos.com Website: www.somewhereintheskies.com Patreon: www.patreon.com/somewhereskies YouTube Channel: CLICK HERE Official Store: CLICK HERE Order Ryan's Book by CLICKING HERE Twitter: @SomewhereSkies Instagram: @SomewhereSkiesPod Watch Mysteries Decoded for free at www.CWseed.com Episode edited by Jane Palomera Moore Opening Theme Song, "Ephemeral Reign" by Per Kiilstofte SOMEWHERE IN THE SKIES is part of the eOne podcast network. To learn more, CLICK HERE Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/somewhere-in-the-skies. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey guys, Ryan here. And before we get to this week's interview, I want to take just a moment to speak up and speak out. I don't care who you are, where you come from, your political leanings, religious beliefs, your personal principles or values, or what color your skin is. Right now, we have a chance to support and stand by our fellow human beings who have suffered great loss, bigotry, hate, racism, and murder for many, many years. Both in other countries, but both in other countries. particularly here in the United States. Somewhere in the skies stands proudly with our black listeners, supporters, and black communities. It's time for the rest of us to listen and to learn and to be an ally more than ever. So to learn more and to begin your support, visit blacklivesmatter.com or n-a-a-c-c-com.

There's also a list in the show notes of hundreds of organizations that help black people. communities, black lives, and people of color. Thanks for taking the time to listen, and I hope you enjoy the show. Today, on Summer in the Skies, we speak to author and journalist Mike DeMonte. The power of normal really isn't that weird. It's just only we've changed. You know, society's changed, culture change, how we view things has changed. Years ago, this really wasn't weird to some people.

So I want us to kind of go back to that idea that it's okay to accept some of these weird elements that we may have been told that there's nobody this can exist, because at one point, people believed it to be true. And maybe it is. And maybe this whole time it's been hiding, hiding in silence, or it lives through our pop culture. Who knows? This is somewhere in the skies with Brian Sprague.

Mythological gods, dragons, magicians, interdimensional beings, UFOs, goblins, secret government programs and psychic abilities. Punk rock and UFOs, stranger than fiction, is the third installment in the punk rock and UFO's book series. And it aims to normalize the paranormal through current pop culture, mythology, fiction, and its connection to unexplained phenomena. The book features insights and exclusive interviews from around the world of academia,

journalism, television, and film, pop culture, science, and UFO studies. The aim of the book is to use current real-life events and connect them to fictional examples, that appear in pop culture, which will hopefully bridge the gap between fiction and nonfiction, as well as help show people that the paranormal isn't really all that unbelievable. Here's our interview with the author, Mike DeMonte. Mike DeMonte, how's it going, buddy? Good. Great to see you. It's always good to be on the show and just talk to you. Yeah.

Since you only get to do this in person. I know. Someday. Someday we will make it happen. We didn't have you on the show, we had you, I should say, on the show not too long ago. This is right when the pandemic had sort of started, I think, but a lot has happened since then. So I kind of wanted to catch up with you before we even talk about why you're really here, to talk about your new book, Stranger Than Fiction, your thoughts on everything going on in the UFO world right now. I mean, we've got the official release of the Navy videos from the DOD. I don't think that it hit before we last spoke.

So, yeah, where do you stand on this, man? The DoD finally acknowledging these videos that we've been debating for almost three years now. I mentioned this yesterday when I was on Denigiegik with Alejandro. Someone mentioned it. I forgot who was exactly. But they said, like, what if this was the disclosure that we're supposed to get? Is that enough? And I was like, honestly, if you look at a face value, I mean, it should be.

The fact that they're admitting, they're basically admitting that not only the video is real, but the phenomenon of self is real. I mean, we've never seen anything like that. So I think if that is the disclosure, you know, we were getting from to the stars or the Pentagon or whatever, so be. I think that's great. You know, that's all it is. I think it's historic, you know, but I know people will always want more. But I think, you know, especially the week it came out to, I think it was strategically happened during COVID because they wanted it to be buried. And it kind of backfired because it was a big story, surprisingly.

It really took control of a lot of the outlets and the media. So, yeah, that was crazy. I kind of backfired on the Pentagon. It was interesting. I think a lot of people feel like they did that on purpose, tried to bury it in there, and to sort of, you know, take control of it. Like, yeah, the videos leaked a while ago,

but we're officially releasing these. Like, we're acknowledging it. And it's like, yeah, you're about three years too late. But I think you're right, man. And I think this could be the disclosure we're living in, whether it continues or not, is I really think up to the observers who see these things, report UFOs. I mean, one of which is in the chat right now, Gary Vorgies, was one of the men during the Nimitz event. So a big hello to Gary. I've got some really exciting news to share about Gary and some stuff we're working on in the near future.

But thanks for joining us, Gary. But yeah, man, so the real reason I have you here today is to talk about Stranger than Fiction. Your sort of, I guess, your return of the Jedi of your trilogy, as it were, a punk rock and UFO. So, yeah, before we kind of dive into, I want to focus on a couple chapters that I really found interesting in the book. But before we do that, could you sort of give us like a summary? What is this book about? And what makes it different from the first two in punk rock and UFOs? So this book, it's almost like, you know, it's kind of like, you know, the trilogy in the sense where, you know, you always wanted to kind of come to an end in a sense.

Like, I'm not saying I'm never going to run a UFO book again, but I wanted to do something different. I feel like so many UFO cases and so many stories that just been beaten to death. So I really want to do something unique. And this is basically building off of the previous books, so what I started with this one. You know, I started with the previous ones. Like, you know, true believers, I really wanted to kind of focus on, you know, some of the people who were doing the goals. great work in the UFO community and researching and also to try to bridge that gap between the common person to try and be interested in this topic in the first place. This book is basically

the idea behind it to try to normalize the idea of paranormal. Just to realize that, you know, it's really not that weird. You know, some of the stuff that we study, even the more far out stuff, like consciousness and, you know, physiology and, you know, near-death experiences, all these things are rooted in some truth. And a lot of fictional stories throughout the years, whether it's through myth's folklore, comic books, pop culture, have mirrored that. So the aim of the books are basically normalized paranormal.

And I use a lot of current pop culture examples as well as some things in the current events in our field as well. So, yeah, that's basically the focus of the book. And I really wanted to do a deeper dive than I've done in my previous books. Previous books a little bit more concise this. one I really wanted to kind of almost approach it like to look more scholarly if that makes

sense. Yeah, absolutely. I think you really stretch your muscles with this one. I mean, just from what I've read so far of it, I mean, it was like blowing my mind, man. And there's some of that stuff we'll get into because I think it is a departure from your earlier two works, but it also builds off of them a lot. And that really spoke to me in chapter two of the book. I love this title, To the Stars Wars.

That's a little hard to say. a lie. Very witty title and for obvious reasons to the stars. But you kind of start the chapter with talking about something that one of our past guests, Robbie Graham, is kind of known for. And that's how Hollywood mixes with UFOs, the media in general, I would say. And you start the chapter off talking about how we have all these alien themed movies that come out. And it's always some sort of invasion and the humans always win in the end. So I'm really fascinated to see you take this route right from the start in the beginning of the book. And could you maybe give us a little idea of what you were going for when it came to starting the book this way? Well, yeah, this is the second chapter.

And I really wanted to introduce kind of, you know, the second chapter really dives deep into kind of what we are seeing right now, you know, the Nimitz and the Tickback UFO and all those. And I wanted to kind of go back to some science fiction movies and as well and just kind of, you know, this idea that in all these films that, you know, the humans always, you know, we always persevere. And I really think that helps with the potential threat narrative, you know, so it's like, it's this idea that we're accustomed to in our pop culture of UFOs and alien invasions. But so maybe we shouldn't be uncomfortable with the truth, you know, since we've seen these films and, you know, we always win. But we know, in reality, that probably wouldn't be the case. kind of wanted to introduce that because like I said I want to you know I want the average person the non-unufo person to read the book to you kind of get an idea and if they can make that connection between oh yeah I saw independence day and they can make that connection to that and kind of with some of the real life cases for sure. Well yeah and I mean one of those real life cases that I'm sure we'll talk about a few times tonight is the TikTok UFO event. I mean where we have navy pilots and people on the ground saying they can't identify these things we're seeing They outmaneuvered our most sophisticated fighter jets. So, I mean, now that we have current UFO cases talking about how technologically advanced these phenomena seem to be, do you think we're going to start to see more of these movies coming out with aliens and humans being in control and being on top and, I guess, winning, as it were? Well, yeah, it's weird.

It's like, you know, life reflects art and art reflects life. It's kind of like symbiotic in a sense. I think we will. I don't know if it's part of any, you know, anything that was mapped out for this to come out. But, I mean, I think if you look at even some of our non-alien invasion movies. I mean, these themes are in everything. You know, right now we're re-watching all the Marvel films chronologically during quarantine

because it's something to do. And there's so many things that I didn't catch that I should have that I could have included in my book. But, like, part of it is like, you know, if you read that book and you go watch that movie and you say, oh, wait a minute, this Marvel movie is referencing something I've read before, you know, something a biologist tried or a scientist tried or something else. You know, that's kind of a goal. I want someone to make their own connections as well. Yeah. One of the really interesting things in this chapter two, Mike, that I found was this term

called camouflage through limited disclosure. Yeah, could you maybe tell us a little about the guy who said this? I'm sure a lot of the people in the UFO field know who this person is. But yeah, what did you mean by this term, camouflage through limited disclosure? Well, I had to mention because it's one of my favorite books. We've discussed this before, the day after Roswell by Philip Corso. For those who don't know, Philip Corso was an ex-Penegon official whose job was allegedly after Roswell was to take crashed tech and then pass along to private enterprises and then for them to try to reverse engineer it.

And a lot of people believe that was attributed to the technology boom we saw around that time. So that quote comes from him. And, I mean, think about it, you know, this is something that, I mean, this isn't a new idea. You know, the city of limited disclosure, you know. And if you look at it through the films that were made in the 80s and, you know, close encounters and ET and, you know, allegedly those were, you know, people who made the films consulted with some government officials.

So I think it's all part of that, you know, that idea that fiction and nonfiction kind of work hand in and hand attempts. Yeah, I would have to agree. And, I mean, probably one of the most visible companies doing that right now. trying to disclose through arts and entertainment is to the Stars, to the Stars Academy of Arts and Entertainment. And you spoke to several individuals connected with some of the television properties that To the Stars is putting out on History Channel,

soon to be on, what was it, TBS, I believe? TBS, yeah. Yeah. Would you mind maybe running us through a little what it was like talking to these guys and maybe what their goal or mission is with getting this stuff out to the public? Well, so part of that was talking to not just people associated with the Star's properties, but just in general, you know, major television producers, some of the which that you've worked with as well,

just their approach to these shows and, you know, why they do them and kind of how they, the cultural effect it has. So I want to kind of reach out to everyone. St. Spry was one of the guys I reached out to because he's producing Tom the Lodge's Monsters of California, which no one really knows much about. He's on, Sansprite also produced the Crepe Show reboot

that was, it's on AMC right now that's on shutter. But I mean, basically he's really brought in this idea that, you know, he's on board,

but, you know, they're helping disclose some of this information through these fictional properties, which I know, you know, this is something

they discussed from the very beginning. And I know a lot of people, you know, were opposed to that. And I get that. I get that skepticism. But it's like, you know,

if you look back through history and, you know, from, you know, from not just history as we know it, just humanities and other studies. It's like the lines have been blurred the whole time.

You know, this isn't a new idea. This isn't something that needs to be, you know, vilified. This happens all the time. Yeah, that's a really good point. And, I mean, sort of circling back to, I guess, to the Stars Academy. I know it always comes back to them somehow. I want to get your thoughts on this. You spoke about this in the book as well, this cooperation between to the stars and the Army.

I mean, the Navy's one thing. You know, to the stars sort of had this chain effect, whether it was through the New York Times articles or their television shows, of kind of pressuring the Navy to start to be vocal about this and even, you know, update their reporting protocol on UFOs by speaking to senators and members of Congress. I mean, it's crazy to think of what this company has been able to achieve in the amount of time they've been around. But now we have the Army and they're actually working with the Army on something. So could you maybe clue us in on what is this company to the stars doing with the Army? And do you think this is good? I mean, is this going to, are we going to ever know what they're actually working on? I mean, who knows, you know, if we're ever going to know.

But I think a lot of people, the tractors, they like to marginalize some of the advances at to the Stars have done. And this is something that they kind of scoff at. It's like, this is kind of a big deal, you know, whether we get to know or not. But the fact that potentially, you know, to the Stars now has their lives. lab, whether it's the fact that the government's, it's a government lab or not, you know, it's something, you know, we talked about too, that Starr's is a very small company, even though they have a lot of people with huge resumes and big egos and a lot of experience are still

a very small company. So now they actually have the facilities to try to do these things that they were teasing doing the very beginning. Like, I remember the first things they tease was like a spaceship, you know, it's like, who knows if they're going to be able to build that, but if they could at least try to work towards something like that. Now maybe they have a mechanism to do so, which they didn't have before. Yeah, that's a really good point. I mean, and a lot of it comes down to funding. Let's be completely honest. I mean, I would assume the Army has unlimited funds when it comes to R&D and you know, advanced propulsion or weaponry, whatever the heck they're working on. So you know what? If this is how we're going to get those small disclosures, as it were, then I'm all for it. And as long as

they're working in cooperation and the public is actually privy to what they're doing, to an extent. I think it'll be pretty interesting to see where that all goes. But now, last question concerning to the stars, I promise, my man. We got Tom DeLong, the guy who we really haven't heard a lot from since the company started a few interviews at the beginning. And then they kind of shut them up for a while. you were actually able to get quotes from DeLong himself for the book. And kudos, man. I can't imagine that was easy.

But how did that opportunity come about? And what about what he said really resonated for you to put it in the book? So, you know, it's hard, you know, like, you know, they've been very selective of who they've dealt with in terms of press. Ever since they started, I thought, you know, at first it was obviously mainstream outlets because, I mean, that was the way to go. I don't think the UFO community was ever on their radar in terms of people that they needed to answer to or appease. But, I mean, lately, they've been a lot more open towards, you know, doing, you know, more stuff. You know, you've seen Chris Mellon on Twitter and answering questions, which is really cool.

I mean, this is the stuff that, you know, Twitter and UFO fans have been wanting to hear for a long time. So it's really cool that they're being able to more open now to some of these things. And maybe they're allowed to now. Maybe there was reasons why they come in, who knows. But the opportunity that I was able to get a quote from Tom for my book was something I'm working on for a long time. You know, we talked about this in the past. I used to do journalism full-time for Houston Chronicle. I interviewed Tom before I met him.

I sat down with them in the past to do our music interviews. So I've always had a working relationship with the people who handled them. But that all changed when to the stars happened. When I was pitching the idea, you know, to the book to them, what I was doing, hey, you know, who I already have on board, I think that's what they looked at. and they looked at the scope of the book. And my, you know, quote was regarding secret machines. And I thought, you know, I told me, you know, this would really help, you know, kind of make the point I was trying to make as well.

And they were down. And I was very, very happy that they were down. Tom gave a great quote. And I know he was really busy. And I just asked if they could email to me. You know, I wasn't trying to, you know, I get them on the phone or anything like that. Like, whatever I can take, I'll take. And I know that was a really busy week for them, too.

Because when I was waiting for that quote from the book, he was doing a lot of radio, because Angel and Airways just dropped a new song and COVID was happening. So they had a lot of downtime. So it was right place, right time. And it's a great quote. And this quote basically talks about having two different franchises with secret machines, the fiction and the nonfiction element. And this is basically, you know, it really ties to the idea that I'm kind of pushing in the book

that this has been happening, you know, from the beginning of time. This isn't a new idea that fiction and nonfiction sometimes intersect. So having, you know, Tom's quote in the book, you know, as well as Peter LeVenda, Kevin Day, and quite a few other people who have been involved, you know, to the Star stuff. I've been, I mean, it means a world to me. You know, growing up, Anna Tom,

and it really completes the book, I thought. Lots of places can expose you to identity theft. Oh, no. That's why LifeLock monitors hundreds of millions of data points a second for threats to your identity, which is way more than anyone can do on their own. If we find anything suspicious, like new loans or changes to your financial accounts,

we alert you right away. through text, phone, email, or the LifeLock app. Get the alerts that could make all the difference. Save up to 40% your first year at LifeLock.com slash special offer. Terms apply. Yeah, as a fellow Blink 182 slash Angels and Airwaves fan, I can only imagine it. That's awesome, man.

Well, I mean, sort of that idea of truth and fiction or fact and fiction blending. that really came across in chapter four of your book, which was by far my favorite chapter in the entire book. I mean, some of the names you mentioned, Jeffrey Criple was involved, a bunch of other people, and you start the chapter with a really good quote by Jeffrey Criple. So I was wondering if maybe you could give us an idea of who this guy is and what that quote meant to you to put it at the beginning of the chapter. So Jeffrey Criple is probably, in my opinion, I've said it before,

probably the most underrated people when it comes to the paranormal and UFOs. And he's just very, it's not chelon about it too. It's like, I met him a couple years ago when I interviewed him from my last book, and since then I have kind of befriended him. I did the story. I think last time I was on, we talked about the archives that he's housing at Rice University in Houston. For those who don't know, he's basically getting just an incredible collection of documents

from the CIA, well, not the staff from the CIA. I don't want to say that. But basically, you know, for like certain experiments that were done for different scientists did, as well as all the notes from Jacques Bel-A, Wittley Shriver, all that stuff that he's getting housed in there. So he is a professor of religious studies. He's an expert, the paranormal. He's been studying this stuff for years. But he's on the more of the humanity side. You know, he's not the nuts and bull, you know, UFO guy.

He's the, I mean, he's one of those guys who's basically, you know, the future of UFOology is going towards, you know, more disparate. spiritualism and consciousness. And he's one of those guys who for years have been writing about the weird elements of it. So yeah, I started off with the quote. I think the quote I used was to start that chapter was, right, which was it the one about? The Bible is full of what we refer to as paranormal stories. Yes. Yep, that is it. He's a professor of religious studies as well. So he's had his own experiences too, and he's absolutely genius. But I think that quote really hits home because it's true. You know, if you were to present, you know, the stories that you're reading the Bible, to them, that was life. It wasn't what we call paranormal.

So somewhere, I'm not saying every story that is true, but somewhere between men and now, something's changed with how we view this and a reality in general has changed. Absolutely. Yeah. And the word God is probably going to come up a lot in this conversation. And that's what I love about this topic is we seem to be moving into this really interesting age of UFO discourse in mixing it with relationships. I mean, people like Diana Pesolka have written about this extensively. And people have been talking about this for a really long time, too. And I thought it was really interesting.

Another person that you got to contribute to this chapter was, like you mentioned, Peter LeBenda, who has worked with Tom DeLon on the Secret Machines books, the nonfiction books, am I correct? Now, I don't remember which of the books it was in, but this idea of the cargo cult. I think this was the first book that came out. Okay. Can you maybe describe what that is to our audience? Because I had never even heard of it before I read the book, and I feel like a bad euthologist because of that.

But yeah, maybe run us through what cargo cult is and why it plays such a big role in what LeVend is talking about with the UFS. So in generally, the idea of a cargo is when a civilization, and I'm not going to say unsyvilized, but when an unindustrialized civilization kind of discovers a technology for the first time. That is like the basis of it. But in terms of how it's applied to euophology as well, it's almost looked at,

I mean, if you look at the ancient astronaut theory, it kind of takes that idea that, you know, what if a society that's never seen an aircraft before? They see an aircraft all of a sudden. What are they going to associate it with? One civilization or culture may think it's a dragon.

One may think it's a giant bird because they've never seen it before. So what Peter Lovenda does in the first secret machine's book, God, is he basically takes that and he really dissect it no way it's ever that's really hasn't been done before he almost uh takes what zacharii sitchin and eric von dakin did and really approaches it from more uh academic manner if that makes sense um it's it's less that everything is aliens to more of um let's really get to the bottom of what these cultures believe and what they potentially saw so that's his angle yeah and i mean i remember

speaking to micah hanks not too long ago about this whole idea that ufos throughout and how they've been perceived, and it really does depend on the culture viewing it. I mean, if you're back in the days of antiquity and you see a flying wheel in the sky, like, you're probably going to think it's a god or something like that, or you see these flying shields in the sky during the time of war. This could be an aborition or a sign of bad things to come. So it is really interesting to see throughout time. how possibly the UFO phenomenon has been perceived.

One of the quotes that was in this chapter, it came from you. And you said that Secret Machines Man by Labenda and Delang is a good representation of what to the Stars Academy of Arts and Science is looking to ultimately achieve, which is to inspire a new generation to reevaluate and reimagine science, society, and humanity. I mean, that kind of says it all right there. They're kind of, they're taking what we, we've all been talking about for so long in trying to bring it to a new generation. So, yeah, what did that quote mean to me?

I mean, I just wanted to kind of just summarize not only that book, but I thought that book was a good, or those books in general, both the Seen Machines books, just in good general of their overall, I guess, trajectory. You know, I think the goal is if the goal is to get, not knowing a new generation, but more people interested, and they've done that in terms of, you know, getting, you know, the Pentagon UFO story out there. and getting, you know, Leslie Keene and William Cooper and Ralph Blumenthal to report on it and getting all these major outlets to follow suit. So they've done it in that case. And if you have books to accompany it and, you know, someone may pick it up because of, you know, maybe they're a fan of Tom or maybe, you know, they're into UFOs like we are. And, you know, they may learn something new. I think, I think ultimately, you know, the best thing you can do is get more people involved in the subject. And no matter how you do it, I think it could be beneficial.

Yeah, absolutely. Another really interesting sort of avenue you took in this chapter was the idea, again, of gods. I keep coming back to this because this is where a lot of my research is heading right now. You brought up Levenda talking about how, let's take Jesus, the son of God, for instance, on earth doing these miraculous things could be considered alien in many different ways. And what do we do to him as humans? We killed him. And you brought up another really interesting analogy that tied to this within the DC Comics universe.

So could you maybe tell us a little about what you were trying to say, connecting Jesus to Superman? Please give me an event. So like the Jesus Superman connection isn't something that I came up with or it's not anything really new per se. I was looking at how it was approached in the films. and the Man of Steel to Batman or Superman. Everything is Zach Snyder planned for his trajectory of those films. Obviously, you know, the Snyder cut will get a better idea. But he really took the idea of if Superman exists in our society, how would he be treated?

And, I mean, it's, would he be treated like Jesus was at first, Savior? So that was definitely one thing I wanted to kind of, you know, focus on, is that these movies and these comic books have been playing with this idea for ages. And it was funny because Batman really played up to this idea heavily and the film got really bad reviews and people didn't like the tone. But I mean, I think that was a great take on it

because if Superman was to exist in the real world today, he would definitely be vilified. Absolutely. I mean, if you look how we treat people who are different than us all the time, you know? So could you imagine a God coming down, an alien coming down from the sky with God-like abilities? Would he be a threat?

Yeah, that's a really good point. And I mean, another interesting observation you made was this idea that the symbol of Superman. You know, we know the S stands for hope. But what I didn't know and what you've uncovered is the triangle in which the S is, is a Trinity. And we can obviously trace this to Christianity with the Holy Trinity, as it were. And you bring up even Trinity, which is a DC comic, probably one of my favorites by Matt Wagner. Yeah. And I thought that was fascinating to think, again, we can tie God, more gods, into this modern mythology that we seem to be going through with comic books. And even on top of that, uphology can be a modern mythology as well. So, yeah, a lot of interesting tie-ins that you came up with that for sure. Yeah. Yeah. The idea, like the triangle appears everywhere. You know, and just in general, just people who claim have to seen aliens, they have the triangle.

symbol on their chest. And is it also a coincidence that some UFOs are triangle shaped or some of those shapes apparently on UFOs are triangles and the pyramids and all the shapes and symbolism, there's definitely a commonality there for sure. And then so we see that reflected, not just in UFO studies, you see that reflected in mythology and religion and in common book. So it's all kind of somehow tied together. And one of the points I make in the book is that like, you know, these gods per se, Maybe they never really died. They're just living on now in a different form, like pop culture. You know, people believe Thor was a real God.

I mean, even, you know, Nordic countries to this day, there are statues, you know, celebrating him. And what do we know of Thor? We know of him through Marvel Comics and through the movies. So is that how gods live on now through our pop culture and through our mythology? Yeah, that's a really, really good point. I've never really thought of it that way. Yeah. Oh, Thor.

Love him, love him so much. Probably one of my favorites. What's up, guys, Ryan Sprag here, and I'm just dropping in to remind you about our Patreon campaign. Somewhere in the skies is always free to consume, but it's not free to create. So if you want to help the show on a monthly basis, we have tons of rewards for you in return, including shoutouts on the show and website, bonus content and episodes, and free merge. Want to be my guest or pick a topic for the show? You can do that too. So if you'd like to learn more and to help support the show, visit patreon.com.

com slash somewhere skies. Thank you and keep looking up. Oh, all right. Now, this is another turn you take in this chapter, this beast of a chapter. Wow, man. Oh, I loved it. I loved it. You spoke to Dr. Gregory Shushin, and he's one of the leading authorities on near-death experiences. And he made some really interesting connections. And you did as well with near-death experiences and the quote-unquote alien abduction for. phenomenon. And we know someone like Leslie Kane is also working in both worlds, UFOs and near-death experiences as well. So yeah, what did you try to get across when you, when you interviewed this doctor about this? So once again, he's not like a traditional UFO guy. I guess

kind of like will we be considered. But, you know, he has a very rich, vast pool of knowledge about other cultures and how they see things, especially when it comes to some of these phenomenon. So I really wanted to reach out to, you know, doctors and more academics, academic professionals and professors and just to kind of get that viewpoint on it too, because I feel like there's just so much more we can learn just by reading about other cultures and how they view things. I did a whole story on my website too, and I just kind of pulled from some of those quotes included in the book too. I think it was fascinating. There's him as a bunch of other people who've been doing this stuff for years and just seeing

the commonalities between, you know, near-the-eat, you know, experiences and other other weird phenomena that are that sounds similar to UFO abductions too. Like there are all these different phenomena that somehow have this common thread. Yeah, I know there's one individual in my book that is coming to mind immediately, and that's a guy named Michael Carter. And I remember when I spoke to him on the phone, one of the first things he told me about his abduction experiences, he felt like he was in bed and he floated outside of his body. and he could actually like see himself still in bed.

And boom, right there. That's kind of what a lot of people who've had these near-death experiences have described looking down at themselves almost or feeling like they floated out of the room. So, yeah, man, I think it's been running in tandem with one another for a really long time. And I just keep hearing more stories about these two phenomena, probably being connected.

Yeah, I'll say you're really. you see this in pop culture. You see this in Dr. Strange in the movie. He Astro projects himself multiple times. You know, where did this come from? They come from someone's imagination. No, this is based off something that people believe that's possible. Yeah, exactly.

The truth is always stranger than fiction, hence the title. Well, another person that you quote in the book is a folklorist. Peter Rajowitz, am I saying that correct? I believe so, yeah. Okay, Rajowitz. about the extraordinary encounter continuum hypothesis. Now, you're going to have to explain this one to me, man. What is this hypothesis?

And, yeah, why did you decide to include it in this chapter? Well, there's so much. So I included multiple hypotheses in it. I don't want to get too much to reveal what it is. I want the reader to kind of in terms of the context of the rest of the chapter. But, like, in general, I really did more research for people who have been studying folklore and different types of phenomena. And I think it's interesting to see that even our folklore mythology,

they're viewed differently too through different cultures. So for sure, that's something I kind of want the reader to kind of discover on their own when they make those own connections because that's like, you know, I think the goal, well, I said earlier the goal of the book is, you know, you want people to make their connection themselves. So when they may read this theory and this idea, they may be able to say, oh, how can I apply that to something I study or I believe or something that's happened to me, which I've previously.

bought was this, but now it's this. Exactly. Well, one of those places that is getting studied a lot recently has been Skinwalker Ranch. Now, whether it's, you know, finding out that a lot of the money from the Secret Pentagon UFO program went to studying Skinwalker Ranch, or you look at something like the new owner, Brandon Fugel. And his work right now with The Ranch, I believe the History Channel show, just wrapped up its first season. But yeah, man, you were able to get a lot of people involved with the ranch in one way or another in the book. So can you tell us a little about what it was like tackling Skinwalker Ranch and maybe a little about what you learn in this section of the book?

So I think Skynwalker Ranch is something I had to include because one of the things I talked about in the book is this idea of potentially multiple universes and parallel universes. And I kind of cover that later on as well. But I mean, think about a Skinwalker Ranch is like this amusement park, the plethora of paranormal, you know, all these things that it's like a best up. You know, all these things are kind of interested in. So I felt like I had included because, you know, I'm really, give you some background. We may have talked about this last time, but I teach full time. And one day we were able to basically teach our co-workers anything we wanted. And I hit them with like everything I want, all the weird stuff, Skinwalker Ranch, Hellyer, you name, and I hit them with.

So it's always interesting to kind of bring these road, the more. fringe elements, I guess, of what we study to people who have no idea what we're talking about, just to see their reaction. But Skinawock Ranch always fascinates, like, the average person. Like, it really piques your interest. It was like, wait, what? This place exists? Like, what? But one of the things, yeah, I really wanted to dive deeper is how the ranch is perceived. So I was able to get kind of, something a good journalist does, you get balanced, right? You get multiple sides of the story. And also what it potentially could be happening there. And that's some of the things I hypothesize, I don't know how about it's sorry.

of things I theorize myself that I think could be it. I draw some comparisons to what's happening in Hellier, Kentucky. I think both of them are very similar sacred lands where weird stuff happens as well. But yeah, you know, Travis Taylor was one of the scientists who led the study on the history show. I was able to get quotes from him as well as the owner of Brandon Fugel. And it's interesting to see Travis's perspective because, you know, he's a scientist. He's worked for, you know, he's worked for the government. And he's someone on the surface that has kind of a skeptical mind. But he's also a science fiction writer. So, I didn't know that. Interesting. Yeah, I had no idea until I interviewed him. Mike, he did the interview call. Like, he's written multiple science fiction books. I had no idea.

So I think it makes sense for somebody like him who's a science guy to be best open-minded, because once again, there's a fictional component in his head to kind of, you know, say, hey, you know what? This study is maybe not too weird for me to do. Let's, let's use. some real science on it. And once again, you know, this is, they're running into the same problems that Nids did that a lot of this phenomenon can't be contained. And that doesn't mean it's, it's not true or inaccurate. I know a lot of the people in Uphology who are really respect, you know, they're the Nils and Bolt's guys and science is the only way. And I've heard this for multiple people. I think Jeffrey Pryple is one of them who said to me too. It may be multiple people

in the book may have said to me at some point. And he says, science is good for some things, not for everything. And I was like, that makes a lot of sense, because if science, may not be the be all end all of what we're studying here. It may not be able to do so. So then we may have to look at, you know, humanities and maybe even spiritualism. Maybe some of the new age stuff that years ago we would have thought was crazy. You know, maybe we give that some more credence now. Yeah, that's, it's funny you mention that.

I mean, throughout the years of my UFO work, I feel like a lot of UFO researchers or people who get into the topic, they start very rigid, very nuts and bolts. Like, I want that craft. I want to, like, I want trace evidence. I want something I can scientifically explore. And that's fine. That's how it works. And then as you get more steeped in the field, it just starts to get weirder,

which I think the phenomenon that encapsulates the phenomenon itself. You sort of get a little glimpse at first, and then it just busts wide open. And I think you're right. I think a lot of people, including myself, I always brushed aside the weirder aspects or the more or high strangeness aspects of the phenomenon. Or like you said, the kind of new age mysticism feel to all of it. But I'm telling you, I mean, I'm like, what, 12, 15 years in now into the UFO topic, exploring it every day of my life.

And I just keep those layers back on of the things I rejected when I first started looking into this topic. So I think you're right. I think we're kind of entering into a new era of looking at these things again from a whole different perspective. and finding that it probably has a lot more to do with it than we first thought. Yeah, no, I think you hit the nail on the head. And this is something, you know, you've been to research this for a lot longer than I have.

And I was thinking about this the other day, I'm doing, you know, a lot of press for the book. And sometimes, you know, you get kind of like, not, you know, like, we talk UFOs is great. But when you're doing it and you're entrenched, it sometimes just a lot, you know. People have been doing this for 30 years. Like, how do they not get burned out, you know, because it's so, I mean, like, how can you study the same cases over and over and over again? get the same result. So I think it's great that a lot of us are doing things differently now. Stranger than fiction, I don't want to write another traditional UFO book. I want to do something different. Like when I read your somewhere in the skies for the first time, I was like,

this is great because it's different. Like, your approach was different. And some of the cases you cover were fresh. And I think that's what we need. We need things that are fresh because I feel like some of these cases that have beat to death for years. It's like, you know, how much more can we read about Betty and Barney Hill at this point? You know, you know what I mean? Like, it's the same cases over and over again. So I think it's good that a lot of us are trying to do things differently. And like I said, in this case, in my book, I really wanted to kind of bring in some fictional elements and say, hey, look, this isn't really too far off as well. I was, you know, I was influenced by some other books that I've read, Passport to McGonia by Jax Ballet and Jeffrey Criple,

Newton Simistics. Those are two books that do a better job than I do of basically saying, hey look this weird stuff intersects with with reality they do a way better job of that than I do but I wanted to kind of tie it into you know more of our modern day pop culture and you know the stuff that's happening currently you know I think the you know the stuff that's been dominating the news for you know we follow with the Pentagon UFOs and the Tic Tacs I think I mean that's like something that's current something everyone's talking about but you can make parallels to that and maybe something you've seen in a movie before as well so I really wanted to do do something current and something where

even if you don't like UFOs, you like pop culture, you're going to pick it up and you're going to get it. You may learn something about UFOs and cryptology and the paranormal. You may watch Stranger Things and say, oh, wow, I read it in Stranger than Fiction that had no idea that this is based off a real place where these experiments supposedly happen. Like,

that's what I want. I want the reader, you know, to kind of learn something about what we study as well as learning stuff and the stuff that they're interested in like Star Wars or Star Trek or Sabrina the Teenage Witch or Harry Potter or any of those the fictional franchises, because they're all based off something. That's such a good point.

I mean, I just started watching Doctor Who for the very first time in my life yesterday, and I'm hooked, man. I'm like seven episodes in already. And already, I'm like, why did I deny this for so long? I heard it was about a time-traveling doctor. Like, who gives a shit? I didn't even know that it was about an alien. So right there.

I don't even know that. Yeah. Yeah, he's an alien. The doctor is an alien. Spoiler alert for anyone who hasn't watched Dr. Hoot for the last, what, 50 years now or 40 years. But something that was brought up in the show is this idea that time is not linear, that the doctor travels through time and space. And that, you know, it's wibbly wobbly, as he would put it. And that really stuck with me because it got me thinking, okay, this fictional television show, Doctor Who, it's been on.

for decades and decades. It's got a huge following, and people just adore it, and they live their lives by it. And I'm looking at some of the things I'm hearing in the show about, you know, time not being linear and not being temporal. And I'm like, oh my God, this is one of the biggest theories in uphology is how are aliens getting to our planet if they can't travel these vast distances that scientists say are impossible, bending time, not going literally. But yeah, this idea that now I can even connect, Dr. Who, one of the most ridiculous things I've ever seen with my current work in euphology. It's, it's, I love it. It's crazy.

Like, the more you kind of read about this stuff, the more you start seeing it in these places you wouldn't expect. Like, children's cartoons, Saturday morning cartoons. Like, I've been rewatching the old Justice League and Limited cartoons in the morning. And every once in a while, like, it'll shock me. He's like, wow, I can't believe that they're bringing this up or they're covering this. or something from mythology or something from, you know, something a physicist studied. So it's really cool to see that play out. You know, and even like Saturday morning cartoons that are met for kids.

Yeah, you mentioned Martian Manhunter in the book. You mentioned Wonder Woman and the X-Men. Like there's this comic book world we live in. And a lot of people have lived in for a really long time. I think it's these bigger, headier questions that they're. the comics have always sort of had, are being amplified in the movies we're seeing because you have young directors getting involved, young writers who are asking new questions of these characters. And I think we're seeing that in the field of euphology as well.

Like you said, Betty and Barney Hill, Roswell, Rendlesham, we've heard every explanation possible for these things until you get new people involved. And that's why you have someone like, let's say at the rebel of euphology, Nick Redfern, coming up with alternate theories on the Rendelsham case being a top secret experiment or Roswell being a Russian or Japanese experiment on the United States. So if we don't have these alternate theories, we're just going to be stuck in a rut, like you said, and we're never going to grow, I believe. It's a great point you made, too, about these younger writers and directors,

as well as younger researchers, we're approaching things differently. But I think it's great. I mean, I said, you know, we're watching all the, the Marvel films right now. And there's something in each film I can point at saying, this is where they got this from. This is where they got this from. So it's all based on either a science or study, a theory of a myth. It's all based on something. And I think one of the quotes I have in the book is myths lose their power if they're not repeated. And that was actually one of my favorite comic books, Batman, No Man's Land. And I think that's true. I think, you know,

when we don't talk or forget about things, it becomes just memories. Right. That's a really, really good point. Well, kind of ending the comic book, I guess, part of this conversation, Mike. You bring up a really interesting thing in a supplemental chapter at the end of the book, and we won't give away too much. But someone who got in contact with you, I remember early on when this first happened, you came to me and you're like, have you ever heard this guy's story? And when you shared it with me, I was like, whoa. Maybe could you give us a little idea of who this person was,

its connection with Captain America maybe and why you decided to put this chapter at the end of the book? So I did the story on my website years ago and I was skeptical of running it just because it was something that really is kind of a stranger than fiction. But somebody at Mufon interviewed him,

did a video interview with him years ago. Mufon really never did anything with it. I think the guy just released himself on his Vimeo or on his YouTube. And the guy's name is Don Seidonberg. He reached out to me. and he showed me the video, the interview he did, the stuff he says allegedly happened.

And it's right away. I was like, this sounds like Captain America's origin story, only with more of a alien twist here. And I guess I was really skeptical of some of the claims of this guy, as he said, but he was able to back up some of the things that were able to prove who he was. And he did serve in the military and his health,

which was for somebody his age, is very phenomenal. I had doctors and nurses look over it too to make sure everything was okay. as well. So basically it's his origin, you know, his story is, you know, he alleges that he was a test subject kind of right around, kind of right around Roswell time. And he was given the serum and it almost sounds like the super serum that Captain America takes. Only in this case, I mean, he can get super strength or those abilities, but it was, he was able to, his cognition improved and he's aged very gracefully. And there's some other elements through a story. I said that are more science fiction, too. But right away, you know, I was like, man, this is, this is crazy. But he was very sincere as well.

So you know what? If he's pulling a hoax, who knows? We don't know that. But I really wanted to include a story as a bonus because I think it really, I wanted the reader to read it and decide. And they go back to say, hey, you know what? Is this fiction or is his fact? Or is this, you know, what is this? Is this a sweet old man who's telling the truth or whatever? But yeah, I definitely wanted to include it as a bonus chapter in the book because I thought it would it really ties in this idea of stranger than fiction. This is a story that is stranger than fiction. I want the reader to say, hey, do you believe this guy or not? Yeah, I think that's a kind of a good way to encapsulate the whole book is this, this idea of blurred lines. So kind of wrapping up the conversation on the

book, Mike, what do you want readers to really take away from not only stranger than fiction, but this trilogy of books that you've written? They're, they're unlike, anything else, I think that's ever been written on the UFO topic. You took a very clear, journalistic and very challenging approach to the phenomenon. It wasn't just, here's a case on this day, it happened. Cool. Like, you really got in there and tried to look at it from every angle. So, yeah, what is punk rock in UFOs, this trilogy of books? And why should, why should people buy the books, man. So the general idea was, you know, behind the title of punk rock

and the foes was the, I'm sorry, I'm laughing at some of the comments are really funny. I'm sorry. No, I'm looking at him to welcome Dave Altman. So the idea was, you know, behind the punk rock element, is not necessarily the music, but the rebellious nature, how we rebel against

certain beliefs that, you know, are kind of forced upon us and what we believe in from the start. So that was a general idea around it. But this book, I build on other books, but this is the book to get, because it really builds on what started in the first two books. You know, the first one was about rebelling against these beliefs. The second one was about trying to find commonality between UFO people and, you know, the common populace. And this one is really just trying to normalize the idea of the paranormal. So if the average person, you know,

reads a comic book or, you know, sees a movie or a science fiction movie, and then they go back and read their Greek mythology and they make a connection or they read a UFO study and they make connection to maybe something that's seen in the movie. And then they realize kind of, hey, look, these fictional components are, there's some, some nonfiction as well. So all throughout time, this has been happening. I really want the reader to take that home, but hey, you know what, the paranormal really isn't that weird. It's just only, we've changed, you know, a society has changed, culture changed, how we view things has changed. Years ago, this really wasn't weird to some people. But nowadays, you know, this is, you know, our society is totally different.

So I want us to kind of go back to that idea that, you know, it's okay to accept some of these weird elements that we may have been told that there's no way this can exist. Because at one point, people believed it to be true. And maybe it is. And maybe this whole time it's been hiding, hiding in silence or it lives through our pop culture. Who knows? Yeah, absolutely. It just keeps going, I think. Well, in writing these three books, Mike, I got to ask you,

as an author and someone who's interviewed people in every walk of life about UFOs now, do you think you're any closer to getting answers? Or what is the end goal with exploring this mystery? I know each of us has our own reasons for getting into this stuff. But yeah, where do you stand today after three books of dissecting this mystery? And where did you come out on the other side? Yeah, it's great. Because we talked about this earlier how when you first get into this stuff,

You want the nuts and bolts, you know, you want the proof, you want the hard evidence. But the more you realize, you know, the more you study it, the more you realize that that may not be attainable or in the way that, you know, traditionally science attains it. So, you know, you start opening up your mind more to some of the, you know, what was once considered the fringe elements of what we study as well. So, you know, it's where I was like when I was writing this book when I finished it, it's like, what else can I say about UFOs at this point? Like I'm not saying I'm not going to write a book ever again, but I'm like, if this is the last book I wrote in the subject, it's a great way to go out. I mean, it doesn't mean I'm going to stop, you know, doing interviews and stories on punkrafanyipose.com. Because the subject is still super interesting. But I really wanted this book to be different and definitely take a different approach to it.

Because like I said, you know, I was saying earlier, you know, there's only so much we can do about these cases and that we've been to death for years. So I think it's, you know, this was my way of putting everything that I've previously done and, you know, as well as looking at something new. And yeah, like, yeah, after writing the book, I was like, well, what else? can I say at this point. I feel like I've said everything I can say so far. You know, who knows I may change five years from now, but it's like I feel like, you know, I feel like if I wasn't to write a book again about UFOs, this would be a great way to go out. Absolutely. Yeah. I think it was a, it was a good cap on everything that you theorized from the very beginning up until now. And of course, like the journey's never done. The books will continue.

The research will continue. And I know your work will continue over at punk rock and UFO. So I got to ask you, what comes next for the website? Are you working on anything over there? Or I would assume the book has been taken up most of your time. But yeah, what's next for punk rock and UFOs? The book's been taking up a lot of the time, for sure. You know how it is when a book's about to launch and working on it. Writing the book's the easy part.

To me, that is the easy part. It's the waiting for the book to come out, the layout, the production, all those elements. That's the hard part. And then everything that comes with it. I think that's the tough part. And then getting it out there and hopefully people like it. But yeah, I mean, there's a few stories I'm trying to get for punk rockifos.com.

It's, I don't want to give it away because who knows if I'm going to be able to do. It's people that really have flew under the radar in terms of research that I think are interesting because of their background. And it may not even amount to anything, but that's maybe something coming soon. But yeah, like I said, you know, right now, I talked about this yesterday that, you know, we're in the golden days of UFOs in terms of how mainstream media covers it. And, you know, a lot of these mainstream outlets and these big journalists are doing a lot of that heavy lifting. You know, at the same time, you know, we have a lot of a lot of us and a lot of citizen UFO journalists and a lot of UFO advocates and social media. You know, that's a push as well. So it's like it's really, you know, it's coming from a lot of different angles.

It's coming from the underground and it's coming from the mainstream. So I think it's really cool. You know, it's a good time in the end of this stuff because there's just a lot of content to digest. You know, there's so many TV shows and so many podcasts and there's so many websites and they're all. great. I mean, Jason's out here right now, and Jason's website's amazing. He pushes out so much content every day of road planning TV. So, you know, like I was saying, there's just, there's just so much, you know, so much great people doing great work, whether it's on, you know, the blogosphere, social media, citizen journalists, you know, or, you know, if it's the larger at least, too,

there's just a lot of work to be done. You know, and that's not even counting, you know, what to the Stars is doing and these other small organizations that are kind of coming up to, you know, like UIPX and other ones. So it's like, it's cool. It's kind of like this little trickle. Something they talk about in, you know, comic books, like in Batman begins, they talk about acceleration, right? The idea that, you know, Batman comes and then, you know, the villains are amplifying

their game. And you're kind of seeing that UFOs, too. You know, you're kind of seeing how everyone's kind of revving up, you know, for whatever, whatever is coming and just pushing it forward a little bit. This episode is brought to you by Netflix. Most valuable promotions in Netflix are hosting a blockbuster triple headliner Saturday, May 16th. Rhonda Rousey returns to face fellow woman's MMA pioneer Gina Carano in the main event. Plus co-main's Nate Diaz versus Mike Perry.

And the best heavyweight in the world, Frances Ngano versus Felipe Lins. Watch Rhonda Rousey versus Gina Carrano, live only on Netflix. Saturday, May 16th at 9 p.m. Eastern Center time, 6 p.m. Pacific time. Yeah, yeah. It's a very passionate field to be. I mean, you have something like UFO Twitter being a thing now, where like we never dreamed that we'd see the day where there'd be UFO Twitter. It's like just an amalgamation of everyone interested in the topic having really good discussions for the most part. I mean, like other parts of Twitter, it's not always the best.

But like you mentioned, you've got civilian researchers writing some of the most amazing articles for mainstream outlets. We're not talking about people hired by popular mechanics or vice or New York Times. We're talking about citizen journalists writing such quality material that it's being published by these, you know, very noted journalistic avenues. So I think you're right. I think it's an exciting time to be in this field. It's an exciting time in general for UFOs. And I can't wait to see where it heads next. But before we go, Mike, you got to tell me,

what is your connection with pop soap? What is this about, man? So I was thinking about unique ways. I mean, once you know, Pochagragg me a photo stranger, so it's a small brand, I guess, you know, whatever you want to call it. But I have a friend of mine in Houston,

they do really cool vegan health products like soap and body washes and it's all pop culture theme. They do like a Star Wars bar. They do a Harry Potter bar. They do Halloween bars. And there's really, really good people. too. You know, they work seven days a week putting out the product. They're at farmers markets. They're at conventions all throughout the United States, you know, selling their stuff.

And they're good people. They have a great product, good people. And I pitched, you know, hey, you want to do a collaboration? They're like totally down because they never had even space or alien being. So I basically told them what the books about when came up with this bar that kind of looks like the universe as like some pink and like gray squirrels in it. It's called Cosmic Cleanse. So that's just a little cross promotional thing we're doing. I know, you know, they reach a lot of people. And, you know, on the label, there's just going to be kind of a, hey, go read the book, too. And there's just a little something, you know, that kind of help cross-promotes.

I think that's kind of cool when you can do that, especially when it's, like, friends and it's people that you believe in their product and what they're doing as well. So I think that's really cool. It's cool. I'm going to have, like, a soap based after, you know, loose, you know, you know, based after the book. Absolutely. And like you said, like, writing the book is just half the journey, marketing it and doing the business side after. is a thing on its own. So I definitely commend you for thinking outside the box

and how to get your message out there. And I think that's really cool. In terms of thinking outside the box, you're working with a new publisher with Stranger Than Fiction. So what was it like working with Beyond the Frey publishing? And yeah, yeah, are you excited to be working with these guys? Yeah, so as soon as they announced,

Shannon announced that her and Jeff were doing their own book company, I was like, oh, this sounds so cool. And then as soon as I read the book, the Beyond the Frey Bigfoot, I was like, man, this is perfect. And I was like, I hope they like me. I mean, I know Shannon. And I hope they liked the book. I sent, I said them when I was working on. And there's part of me that was confident.

I'm like, you know, this is good. And this is probably unlike anything that they have in the, you know, in the works. But, you know, you never know. You never know if it's going to be a fit or not. And I was like static when they said they wanted to put out the book. And, you know, right now everyone they've signed and, you know, you, you, you, you're, You're going to be involved, your next book as well. So I think I said this to you when I found out you were putting a book out for them, too.

It's like, man, this is like cash money records of weird right now. But, no, like, you know, they work really closely, you know, with the authors and they have integrity. And yeah, I mean, once again, they're really small operation. And the fact that they're churning out books like every other week they're announcing a new author and a new book. And it's really impressive because it's not easy to do. And I know the work that Jeff does and Shannon does, it's a lot of work. So I'm really stoked for this to be the home of the book, and I know it's going to get the proper attention of deserves.

And, you know, it feels like a little family, which is cool. And it's always cool to have that, you know, that community. Yeah, yeah. They're very supportive. And I think you're right. I think they have the best of attention when it comes to their authors. And if anyone wants to go look at everything else they got over there right now, it's Beyond the Freight Publishing.com.

Mike's book is dropping Tuesday, June 16th. Where can we find the book, Mike? Amazon and Barnes & Noble.com, print, any book. And I believe eventually they're working on getting their titles, all their titles, audiobooks eventually. Yeah, yeah. I think they just did the audio for Beyond the Freight Bigfoot. But that's something I didn't even think it would be possible.

When I first had the meeting with them, like, oh, yeah, this is something we're doing. I'll tell you. That's really cool because somebody actually asked about that when I announced the book was coming out. Or is it going to be an audiobook, too. So that's really cool. But yeah, just Barnes & Noble and Amazon.com, which is basically a lot of the smaller publishers, that's how they go. It's basically people are their books online anyway. It's really hard to get physically in stores unless you're a major publisher.

So many of these smaller book companies, I think, are doing great work and putting out some of the best stuff out there. I mean, you look at what Jeff has put out on his own. He's a best-selling author as well. So it's very impressive to see the range, you know, with your Barnes & Noble and Amazon. that smaller publishing companies and, you know, smaller authors like us that, you know, we can reach such a large audience of people. Yeah, that's a good point, man.

Yeah, I mean, I think a lot of people get worried about Amazon taking over everything and Spotify taking over the entire podcasting platform. But, you know, there will always be independence out there. And I think that's where you get the true honest stuff unfiltered. So I got to thank you for coming on today, Mike. The book was awesome. I can't wait to dive deeper into it. Again, the book is Stranger Than Fiction. This has been Mike DeMonte. Mike, thank you for joining me on Somewhere in the Skies. Thank you, Ryan, for having me so

much once again. It's always good to be on and just talk to you in general because, you know, we don't live in the same state, so we don't hang out. So, you know, it's always cool to connect and stuff. So thank you so much. And I know your audience is great as well. I think you have such a great platform. And I said, you have a really awesome loyal audience, not just you know, friends that, mutual friends that we know, but just in general. So it's really good to kind of reach out to your audience and everything you do. So thank you. That is it for this week's episode.

Again, my thanks to Mike DeMonte for joining us. Punk Rock and UFO's Stranger Than Fiction releases on June 16th. So be sure to get your copy over on Amazon or at Beyond the Freight Publishing.com. If you have a few moments, please subscribe, rate, and review somewhere in the skies on Apple Podcasts, your Android apps, or wherever you get the show. It helps us gain visibility and find new listeners. Thank you in advance. The store is open with all different items and designs.

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