Somewhere in the Skies - Return to the Alien Highway with Heather Taddy & Chuck Zukowski

Episode Date: August 3, 2026

Former law enforcement officer Chuck Zukowski has spent more than three decades investigating some of America's most compelling UFO encounters, following trails that many authorities abandoned long ago. Alongside his son, Daniel, and paranormal investigator Heather Taddy, he travels the desolate backroads, forgotten towns, and remote landscapes that have earned the nickname "America's Alien Highway." Together, they reexamine overlooked cases, uncover evidence that others have missed, and earn the trust of witnesses who have remained silent for years, hoping to uncover the truth behind one of the world's greatest mysteries. Now, Chuck Zukowski and Heather Taddy join me to pull back the curtain on their investigations, sharing the stories, discoveries, and behind-the-scenes moments that never made it to television. From compelling witness testimony and intriguing physical evidence to the realities of investigating UFO reports in the field, we explore what it truly takes to chase the unknown, and why the search continues. Visit Chuck at: http://www.ufonut.com/ Visit Heather at: http://heathertaddy.com/ Join us at ANOMACON on September 12th: http://www.anomacon.com Send us a voicemail: https://www.speakpipe.com/SomewhereSkiesPod Patreon: http://www.patreon.com/somewhereskies ByMeACoffee: http://www.buymeacoffee.com/UFxzyzHOaQ Substack: https://ryansprague.substack.com/ All socials and books: https://linktr.ee/somewhereskiespod Follow Suzanne on X: https://x.com/csuzannelanders Email: [e-mail] Opening theme song by Septembryo Closing song by Per Kiilstofte Copyright © 2026 Ryan Sprague. All rights reserved. #Alien #Aliens #AlienHighway #UFOs #UAP #Paranormal #ChuckZukowski #HeatherTaddy #UFOHighway #Unexplained #Anomalous #SomewhereintheSkies Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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do here. So to learn more, check the links in the show notes or the video description. And real talk here, guys, thank you for listening and supporting us for almost 10 years. And thank you for supporting independent content. And I hope you'll continue to join me somewhere in the skies. While our government's official position is not to speculate on this subject, we can choose to let our minds explore other possibilities. To use our imaginations, for if we consider that astro scientists agree on one point, that the possibility of life elsewhere is not only quite probable, some field is there without a doubt. Let us suppose them that these objects are real space vehicles, extraterrestrial origin,

and not an illusion of the mind. This is Somewhere in the Skies with Ryan Sprague. Thank you for joining me tonight for a very special episode of Somewhere in the Sky. Now, some of you might know one of our guests from a previous episode, Heather Taddy, one of the stars of Alien Highway. But today we actually have two of the hosts of that television show on with us. We're going to talk all about the show, what evidence they found most compelling during each investigation, what didn't make it into the episodes, which is always fun. Right now, I want to welcome my two guests, the hosts of Alien Highway.

I've got Chuck Sikowsky and Heather Tattie. Guys, how are you doing today? Hello. There they are. How are you doing, Heather? I haven't talked to lately. I know, man. It's been a while.

I was going to communicate with each other and forget about the host. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You guys just, you do your thing. I'm not even here. I'm... I'm... See you, Chuck, and us not be in, like, a thousand jackets and hats and in winter attire.

Yeah, yeah. this time last year. Actually, we were done this time last year, but yeah, last year was pretty tough. You know, we followed a storm for two months and we were basically in the snow the whole time. Yeah, I noticed, like you guys looked freezing the entire time. So in winter you were mostly shooting? Well, actually, you know, we shot one episode in December and the rest beginning of the year, but we just, at the beginning of year, we just followed a storm. And kid you not, you can have ahead of this too.

We could not wait for, you know, the episode we were going to shoot in California because we thought it would be a lot warmer. And we're on Pacific Coast Highway in Malibu, right, the beach on one side of the mountain, you know, the hills on the other, and it's sleeting on us. It's hailing. Of course. It picked a good time. Yeah, yeah.

I'm sure. We'll get to that SoCal episode, Chuck. That one's very timely with a lot of stuff going on in the UFO world now. But before we kind of, I guess, dive into the episodes, guys, I always like to give those viewers or listeners kind of the origin story. So we'll go with Alien Highway. How did the show come to be? And how did you guys decide what cases you were going to cover?

Whichever one of you'd like to take that, yeah. Do you want to go? You want me to go? How about you go with this one, since you were more into the development process of it? Cool. Well, Rick Sasson, the creator, show contacted me every now and then I get emails from producers and and and so he contacted me and basically he said you know he's looking to try and put together something for travel channel I guess they

had you know a project open he said how would you do a TV show and they said well that's simple I would do a TV show just like I would do a regular investigation I would do it as a field investigation real investigators, real people, eyewitnesses, and all their, any type of evidence that they have. And then as for the episodes, him and I went back and forth over episodes. And out of the eight episodes, seven of them were mine, basically. You know, the ones that I had pitched, the California one, I didn't, only because, you know, I live in Colorado and I'm not on the beach.

But actually four of them were actually my investigations. Right, right. And I noticed, you know, at the beginning of every episode, it had like the file that would show up and it would say, Z file number, da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da. I love seeing that, just knowing like a lot of this did come from your actual case files. Well, those file numbers, they just threw in there. Oh, yeah.

My file numbers, you know, behind the camera, I have a filing cabinet and one out of the garage. My files are basically by name, you know, name and location, basically. If there was a number, then I would have to have some type of notebook to cipher the numbers to, you know, it's too much work. Right. Right, I can imagine that would get stressful. Yeah. Now, Heather, now, how did you get hooked up with a show? Now, being that you come from the world of the parents.

We talked about this in our individual interview, but yeah, how did you come to be a part of this project? So I actually know the executive producer of Alien Highway because he was one of the executive producers for paranormal state. So randomly over the years, he's, you know, come to me for different projects. So he came to me for this one and I was like, yeah, you know, let me get involved in this because it was so, it was so much different than doing, you know, the regular thing where I would go into clients' homes. and hear all their stories and help them and try to catch evidence. So it was more of like an adventure to me. So I was like, yep, sign me up. And interestingly enough, a lot of, there were a couple story editors that worked on Alien Highway

that also worked on paranormal state. And I had never met any of them before. Meanwhile, they had seen all this, you know, they would watch hours of the footage from paranormal state of me as a college student in this club, you know, investigating his home. So it was really cool when we go to the studios in California. because we'd walk past the editing bays and you'd look in and I got to meet, you know, these key players that made paranormal state what it was. It was just, it was really cool to have them work on this project, too.

That's interesting. In terms of approaching me, I'm getting feedback from someone. Uh-oh. I can hear my own voice. Yeah, you got to hear all. I'd say, there's two of you. Check one, too. Oh, now we're good. We got gremlins in the machines, guys.

Anyways, back to what I always said. Heather, how do you approach a UFO investigation? Before we even get to what you guys did investigate, how is it different from a paranormal investigation, would you say? I mean, with the UFO investigations, you're obviously most of the time you're outside. So you have to worry about a lot of environmental factors, such as wild animals. And I'm so used to being in a very closed compact space in a client's home or a basement or an attic. So I'm used to, you know, a smaller area. And so that was one of the main differences. But a lot of the techniques with interviewing and most of the equipment, it all kind of just blended into the other investigations.

Gotcha. Now, Chuck, there is another member of the investigation team who you're quite, Close with, I would say. How did Daniel get involved? Who's Daniel? And what made you want to bring him in to do this show? Well, it's interesting because, you know, I guess for a long time now,

I've been taking family members on my investigations. And, you know, they basically originally talked with my older son and talked with my daughter and talked with Daniel. And then it was between, they decided, well, you know, they wanted kind of like two males, so they kind of decided either between my son Daniel and my son Chuck. And then Daniel's just, Daniel's pretty cool. He's pretty energetic and he's on top of things. My son Chuck is more reserved.

So I think, you know, out of the two, they decided on Daniel because, you know, he's a go-getter. And if you watch the show, it was really kind of funny because, you know, what he was doing on the show is exactly what he does in real life. You know, he gets his mindset on doing something. He takes off. He gets focused on it. And, you know, there was times where he would just split up from the group and take off on his own. And finally, we assigned, you know, cameraman Neil to him and then put a GoPro on his chest. And a few times, you know, with him taking off on his own looking for evidence, he came across some good evidence.

And we had some really positive outcomes over that. So I was really happy that he was part of the team. Yeah, I think he brought just a whole level of, for those who may not be familiar with the paranormal world or the UFO world, that very grounded, skeptical lens that a lot of investigation actually really needs. So I guess we'll just dive in in terms of that investigation and evidence. I want to start with the Missouri Mayhem episode with you guys. This was a pretty interesting one.

There was a huge, you know, a rash of sightings, a UFO flap or wave, as we call it in the UFO world. And this was part of the Piedmont Lights incident, which I'm sure a lot of our UFO crowd might know about. But yeah, could you guys maybe give us a little bit, a little overview of what this episode was? and kind of what you set out to do with it. Well, I'll start first, and I'll only talk real short. I really feel bad about Heather. Yeah, it's fine. The problem is, some of these episodes were investigations

that I was involved with, and so I'd go into them, and I totally forget Dan and Heather who were there, and I always be off on my own, and they're just kind of going, all right, all right, we'd be quiet so we can get a word in edgewise. Yeah, I've been, you know, Piedmont was something I've worked on before. And then I actually did an episode for the Science Channel where I covered a little bit of Piedmont. So it was kind of cool to go back there again. And they were still having some activities.

But, you know, they had a big UFO flap. I forgot. Shoot, I forgot. It was late 70s or so. I think it was 1973. 73. Yeah. Yeah. Heather would know because she was a documentary. Yeah. That's our job. Yeah.

Okay. Yeah. That's what I do with my wife. I'm like, what did I say two weeks ago? Yep. I know that feeling. And so they had this big UFO flap. And then since then, there's been sightings there ever since. And then Missouri is really, really hot. And then what's still even more interesting is Clearwater Lake, which is near Pee. When I lived in Missouri, my father and I used to fish there. My father's gone now. But when we were there at the lake, you know, brought back memories of, you know, me and my father fishing there.

And at the time I didn't, you know, when I was a kid fishing there, I didn't realize, you know, exactly what happened there. And the fact that, you know, I witnessed as saw this giant craft hovering over the water, Clearwater Lake and, you know, and then, you know, shooting up out of the sky. So it was pretty cool to go back there. Heather. Yeah, Heather. What were your thoughts on this episode?

What did you find most compelling about it? Well, for me, I really liked talking to the researcher when we went to Elephant Rocks, and he had this very detailed map of all these fault lines of the area. And I really thought it was interesting that he came up with a theory that these fault lines were creating energy that were attracting these UFOs. So I don't know. There's something about that that really resonated with me. I really liked that idea.

And the whole investigation at Clearwater Lake, it was just, it was beautiful. And that was actually the first episode we filmed. And I think when you watch it, it seems very natural the way that we work with each other and everything. So I really like that one. And also, too, we had a town's hall full of, you know, people that lived in this small town. And they're all telling us about their experiences, not realizing that the person sitting next to them has been having the same experience.

They've just been all really, you know, kind of scared to talk about it. So it was really cool to get all those people in a room and just open up and hear everyone's I find that town hall sort of thing fascinating because that is when you can really kind of get the character of a town and how these events are affecting them all. And for them to all come together and all have different stories, like that's an investigator's dream. You don't even have to really go out and do the legwork. They're coming to you. So that was a really cool way, I think, for you guys to really get to the core. of this investigation.

Now, was there any sort of incidents or, I guess, pieces of evidence in this episode that really, like, really stood out to you guys? There was a couple of one I explained. It was really, really cool. But the one that really kind of threw me, I don't know if it, you know, through Heather was when we were filming there just together for the first time, the executive producer from Travel Channel showed up. And then she's there on side watching us.

And you're talking about being nervous and whether or not you're doing everything right or not. And it took a little bit for, you know, after I talked with her, you know, to kind of relax and, you know, because we're trying to impress. This is our, you know, our first episode we're shooting. And Travel Channel could have pulled the plug any time saying, yeah, you know what, it's just not working. But Heather was right. You know, we really jelled and it came together really well, even with the... first episode and with the production company. The one thing, and I let Heather, you know, talk about this also,

but it really blew me away was we went to a ranch and there was, there was this kind of like a circle where a craft, supposedly craft planted or something, but it's almost like a crop circle. I've seen these things before with cattle mutilations, and we had a picture of it and we were able to use like a slide picture to know exactly where the circle was after a few months because it happened in the summertime. And when I was getting some soil samples and then, but when I was walking up to check the EMF, electromagnetic field, which I normally do, a meter was just going crazy.

And I'm going, holy macro, man, even after, you know, what, six months or so, this place is still active. There's still energy in this circle, around their circle. And was even more cool. When they left it in the show was Jason, our cameraman, was following me. And as he got close to the edge of the circle, his camera actually reset. Now, this is a $70,000 red camera. That's the manufacturer.

These are the same cameras that are used shooting Guardians of the Galaxy, a lot of Marvel movies. And for his camera, just to reset on itself for no reason at all, man, this is the first time it's ever happened to him. And so we kind of left, we left that in. But what didn't make it in was we had a, drone you know shooting over over the top of us when I was when Heather and I were doing soil samples and stuff and then when the drone operator Daniel I think was his name Heather anyway yeah yeah anyway he went to go land the drone and he was standing near the circle and hang on saying I'll show you okay see these these drones they've got they've got cameras and have sonar on the bottom and when it goes to land and it can see the ground. And they have automatic landing so it doesn't crash the drone like I crashed my last drone.

That's why I had this one. So Daniel was bringing the drone down and it couldn't find the ground. It literally would stop and it couldn't find it. And, oops, I just turned it on by accident. Pull a battery up. I don't fly away. I'll be holding it. Tragedy, live on the air.

And it couldn't find the ground. It couldn't land it. It just wouldn't land. That's the safety feature so it doesn't crash. So he's working with it. And finally he just grabbed it with his hand like this and pulled away. And I said, that was pretty awesome. You know, EMF, camera, and the drone couldn't, you know,

all three had issues with that circle. Interesting. Heather, did anything really memorable stick out to you during this one? Definitely that story because you could see the look of shock on Jason, who was our camera operator on his face. And he's been in the business for a really, long time. So he just see the look of shock like what just happened to my camera like this shouldn't have happened. That was pretty pretty compelling to see. But something that was a little fun

behind the scenes fact was when I dropped off the soil samples that was at a lab in St. Louis, we were we figured it out that we were less than a mile away from the house where the boy that the Exorcist was based on where he lived for like during the peak of his possession in this house. And so Chuck and I were like, let's go take a drive. We have a lunch break. Let's go and check it out. So we went to look at it and it was really funny because the owner walked out and she looked like someone that you would think would own this house. She had bright purple pink hair. She was really cool and we just pulled up Chuck's truck and we were just talking to her. And Chuck was like, you should get a Linda Blair decoration for Halloween and put it on your front lawn.

Probably talking out the window or something. And that was cool about this. You know, we did some stuff on her own. We had time. We really didn't have a lot of time, you know, in between shoes because we were pretty packed. But when Heather said, hey, the Exorcist House is here and went, oh, my gosh, it is Missouri, isn't it? And she was, yeah, it's nearby. I went, yeah, let's do it.

Absolutely. I mean, that's fun. I was just talking about it just the other day on another podcast saying, you know, that was just, Sorry, Heather, I was talking about you. Oh, no, you're fine. But basically said the same thing that you suggested to see it. That's one of the things I won't forget either because that was kind of cool. And all of our trips to White Castle?

Okay. You have to understand. Yeah, that was true. The first time we went to White Castle was on my birthday, December 12th. And I should be at birth. I'm sorry, December. Reject that. Yeah, engineering me.

Everything's got to be numbers. Anyway, we were there shooting, and it was my birthday. And they said, well, where do you want to go? And I said, I used to live in Missouri. So I want to go to White Castle because it's been a long time. And they go, are you kidding? Really? White Castle? I went, yeah.

So, you know, the production crew, and both production crew came with us, and we got a Uber with a van, and all we went to White Castle and just loaded up on White Castle so much fun. Hey, man, you do what you got to do. I remember I went to a White Castle at 3 a.m. in the morning on the Vegas Strip. So that's when you know you've hit rock bottom, in my opinion.

But it tasted so good. So yeah, yeah, no, I'm happy to hear that. Well, we stay in Missouri, actually, for the next episode. This one was called UFO Terror. And this was, this one was tough. This is a pretty emotional episode where you really get to see how a UFO incident or incidents affect a person. I mean, it can be sometimes for the good and sometimes really not.

And it really depends on how a witness or an experience or either embraces an event or rejects it. So yeah, would you guys maybe run us a little through UFO terror and what it was like, you know, talking to these people in this one? Okay. Basically, this was this was my investigation. It came to my website, UFO nut.com. plug, plug. Basically, it came to my website and I'm going, wow, this is the combination of possible abduction or something and UFOs and neighbors seen them and maybe creatures and all kinds of stuff going on. And so I'm contacted my sister Debbie, who, Debbie Zyglemyer, who's an investigator in Missouri.

And I asked her, can you go over there and check it out for me, please and see if there's anything to this? And she came back going, it's hot. It's really hot. And so when we talked about episodes, they said, we definitely have to do this. Guarantee, I guarantee you're going to get some evidence. And we did. So, you know, I'll stop right there and I'll let Heather chime in and then I can come in afterwards. It was definitely, for me, it was reminiscent of, you know, the format of a paranormal state episode.

You know, these people were being targeted by phenomena and it's our job to go in there and, you know, find out a little bit about their past and what they're experiencing now and kind of their mindset through this whole situation. So for me, the hypnosis session was really incredible to me because you could see Steve it, it was just like he was taken back to that experience. Like it was as if he was still a teenager. And for him to recount everything, it was incredible. And even the, the, the, uh, the hypnithotherapist was like, I definitely believe him. And she had had no prior knowledge to, you know, him being abducted. So, and she didn't lead him in any way.

And it was her first time doing a session like this. So that, the hypnosis session really stuck out to me. And something that didn't make the episode was in that session, he kind of recounted that this being took him to the top of this mountain and pointed out to the city lights and said to him that the city lights were bad. So we kind of connected that to where, you know, he's seeing all these lights and everything he sees. It's taking him back to this original traumatizing event. No, I mean, between the, I guess the three of you, Daniel included, what do you guys make of

hypnosis when it comes to people claiming alien abductions or, you know, close encounter experiences? It's a very controversial and touchy thing. So I was really surprised to see you guys. go down that route in the episode, but that's one of the only avenues we have to get these memories from people. So I'd love to know your individual thoughts on hypnosis when it comes to investigating claimed abductions. I've worked with a few hypnototherapists who, you know, who do regression. And it's really interesting if, you know, but the thing is, is, you know, you really have to, to know whether or not the person is under. And with this one,

that would be Steve Darling. When he was going under with this hypnotherapist, now what was kind of cool about it is this therapist has never done any alien or UFO stuff. She's basically, you know, dreams was her specialty. And when she's, the questions she was asking and some of the things, the answers and stuff, There was no way she could lead him if he wasn't, you know, under, you know, if he wasn't hypnotized, basically.

Because she didn't really know that much about the ophology. And so it was really cool watching that. But when we first started watching, all three of us were kind of watching it off camera. And Daniel and I are looking at each other. And Daniel's going, yeah, I don't think so. You know, and then the more we watched, the more we realized, oh, my gosh, he really was. she took him back when he was a kid and then she brought him further or back a little bit when he's a teenager but he was still in the kid state you know he was still like eight or nine years old asking or answering the

questions he stayed there even though he was answering the questions as a teenager so it was really cool to see that and i'll go let uh let uh heather chime in yeah what do you make of um what do you make of regression hypnosis? I mean, I would think it's pretty useful because, you know, you're tapping into your unconscious mind, which is a really, that's always been a really fascinating thing to me, you know, the subconscious mind. So you would think that it would help uncover things that you kind of, you know, put in the back of your, your memory box. So, I mean, I don't think it hurts any kind of situation. I think in this situation, it was, it was pretty useful. And hopefully Steve kind of found some peace from being able, you know, get that out because he hadn't told, I don't think he had

told anyone besides his wife about that story. So. Yeah, yeah, that's tough. And I've dealt with a lot of experiencers in my time. It's not easy. So, yeah, that was a pretty emotional episode, I would say. But the next one got a little dark. And I see a lot of people here are asking about the Skinwalker episode. We'll get there. We're getting there. That was probably one of the most popular ones. that a lot of fans really liked. But yeah, let's go to the next one here. We've got Murder on the Prairie.

Now, Chuck, this is a topic that a lot of people know you for mutilation. And this is in your neck of the woods, Colorado. So yeah, maybe we could talk a little bit about what you came across, Murder on the Prairie this episode was called. So, yeah, could you maybe run us through a little about what this episode was about? Okay, yeah. Basically, that was another one of my investigations. Of course, this was Colorado.

And probably out of all the cattle mutilation or animal mutilation investigators in U.S., there's only like top three and really top two, and that's me and Christopher O'Brien. Lindelphal is not really doing it anymore. So I've had a lot of experience during animal mutilation investigations. I'm not only here in Colorado, but Missouri and then New Mexico and some other places. So this was kind of interesting because when I was working on a case that was in Colorado when we were talking,

when Rick, the creator's show was talking to me about, you know, what type of cases we should do and stuff. It was interesting. We were in my office right here chatting, and I got a phone call from, the witness in Westcliff, Colorado, and he'd lost another, you know, another couple of animals. And it was really, really interesting that while Rick was here, and I think, I think Neum might have in here at the time, too, and they were just shooting some extra footage, that, you know, just,

just, you know, for pitching that I actually had the witness live on my phone on the, on part of the, part of the pitch reel of discussing real time, the investigation and how he had. have to, you know, we need to go up. And then I actually took Rick up there and Rick met him and talked to, you know, people and, you know, cells. So basically that was combined with western Colorado and also combined with Trinidad where they've been animal mutilations and strange lights. And this is by 14 in, you know, Roswell and some other things, but this is one of the things I really hold dearly to me because these are strange animal deaths. 24 hours before you see this animal's been alive, you know, no problems at all.

And then the next day it's dead and there's no blood and there's cut marks. And the ranchers just doesn't know what the heck's going on. Some ranchers are scared. Some ranchers don't even want to talk to you because they don't know what's going on. And in some ranchers in the case that we brought on the alien highway are looking for the truth and want to get the information out there to help other. ranchers too and other people in those circumstances that see these things. So it was a, to me, it was a, it was kind of a pretty cool episode, but you know, he hit home pretty hard. Yeah. And I think what's important, too, for people to remember is, uh, for a lot of these ranchers, these animals are their livelihood.

So if these things are mysteriously dying at an alarming rate, um, how are they going to make money? So I think it's really important. And it's kind of an untapped part of euphology that I don't think gets noticed that often. So I was happy to see in a quote unquote UFO show that you guys went there. So yeah, Heather, what stuck out to you about this episode? Well, this was definitely one of my favorite episodes. And what stuck out to me was like you could really feel the frustration

from all the ranchers that we interviewed and all the witnesses. And we had some pretty great stories. And, you know, they all were centered around this purgatory river in this area of Colorado. So I don't know. I just, it's amazing too. Like, how do you not know what happens to your animals? Like, the situations were so bizarre.

Like, where does nine gallons of blood from a horse just disappear to? And when there's no signs of struggle with any of the animals, like, what's really going on? And the fact that they couldn't get answers from any of the vets or, you know, the cops don't know what to do. It's just so bizarre. And it's still something that I think there's still a lot of research that needs to go into it. Right, right. I would have to agree. Yeah, this was, this was, it's a hard one. It's controversial, especially when you see the way that these animals were mutilated. I mean, the precision, you know, of the cut marks, the way that they were, just, just everything about it screams unnatural to me. Like, this wasn't just a predator who attacked another animal. So, I mean, Chuck, in terms of evidence, like, the animal itself, did anything really stick out to you is we're dealing. with something truly anomalous here, at least in this episode.

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Wayfair, every style, every home. Want to talk ETS with the people behind them? Join me, Etienne Jean-Cabouchard on the Upside Ticker Talk. We dive into what's moving markets with timely analysis, trends, and answers to ETF questions you've actually been thinking about. Hit play on the upside ticker talk and elevate your ETF investing IQ. Well, yeah, the problem with animal mutilations for TV shows is, you know, you would have to address those issues as an afterthought because they would already occur. We were really lucky with this case where, you know, we had a couple cases.

I had, you know, that I did that were within a, you know, a month or so. And there was still activity there. So that's unheard of to do a TV show and be on top of an animal mutilation investigation that close. It's usually a year later or something. But what I found in the past is some of the animals are actually lying on a like a crop circle, but it's not a crop circle. It's just like 60 to 22 feet in diameter. It's kind of resembles the same thing that we saw in Missouri that we had issues with the EMF and the drone and the cameras and stuff. And these animals are in the middle of it. And so I've taken samples from inside the circle and outside to circle and I sent them to a soil analysis company that does analysis for, she's for, for all

four corner states. So, you know, they're really professional. And I basically say, okay, all I want is, you know, this sample and this sample compare them and see the difference. And it turns out that the soil inside a circle, the occasions, the CECs, the soil is less soluble. The CECC's, the soil is less soluble. The CECC, have changed, the soil nutrients actually have changed. They're different than the other, than the other soil samples, the test samples. Now, this happened with at least three cases here. I see three because I can't remember if I had three or four cases. But in every case in Colorado, it was the same. And then I did a case in Kansas City, Missouri, and we tested the soil the same. And then in Georgia, the same results, even though the Georgia soil is different than Missouri soil,

Missouri's soil is different than Colorado. Missouri's more clay and I don't know about Georgia, but basically, even though those soils were different, he came with the same analysis. Now, the bottom line is, it's when the animal is found, it's like it hits the ground,

and there's like a, almost like a crater, and sometimes the animals hit so hard that the bones actually detached inside the body, you know, the rib cage from the backbone and stuff. And like these bones, That doesn't happen if an animal just falls over.

It happens if it's dropped. But then I learned after doing a lot of investigations. And then also law enforcement, you know, being law enforcement here in Colorado, watching, you know, clips and stuff of just training clips, that, you know, if you have a suicide jumper and they hit the ground, they bounce. And Daniel could tell you, you know, I mean, not that he's worked on him, but, you know, that's a case. And none of these animals ever showed signs of bouncing.

They were just physically placed and placed so hard that sometimes they leave a crater and sometimes it, you know. So what's the evidence that we see that something energy-wise, in my opinion, that causes this round ring is what placed the animal there. And then you have all the different cuts in them. But every case is always a void of blood. And then the ranchers also see balls of light. And I'll let Heather chime in on the balls of light. Sure, yeah, if you wouldn't mind touching on that. Yeah, the compelling evidence from this episode was when we were behind Tom Walker's ranch near the Continental Divide was where he would see all of these lights.

And Chuck and I captured a, it was like a little red ball of light that would move and then it would disappear and then it would come back and then it would disappear. And I have no idea what that was. But I'd say that was some of the most, besides the rancher's stories of the animal mutilations, that was kind of the most compelling evidence that we actually saw on camera. Yeah, yeah. It's really interesting when you can connect aerial phenomena with, you know, a string or pattern of these mutilations happening. You have to wonder, like, is there an actual connection or not? It was a really interesting episode.

Yeah, yeah. It was cool having Heather there because Heather being, you know, a ghost investigator, you know, she's used to the experiences of balls of light, but they're more of orbs. And then in euphology, you don't use the word orbs. You use balls of light because the balls of light are actually solid. You know, it's think of a probe like we would send out, you know, to another planet or whatever. That's what these things are. They're solid.

And then whatever they do and while they're doing it, they give off a glow. And what I've learned, and I tell you, this is really crazy, and it's a crazy phenomenon. But what I've learned about these balls of light and also specific UFOs that I know are not terrestrial, meaning man-made unless they're, you know, reversed engineering, is that the lights, they don't reflect light. There's no reflection on the ground. So the ball of light come up on a person, and I've actually got pictures of this, but I can't show you to because they're minors and I don't have. of, you know, the parental agreements. But basically, of all the life, when it's in front of someone,

and it's bright, bright, bright, it doesn't cast a shadow, it doesn't leave anything on the person's body. Same thing with UFOs. When I interviewed a cop in Missouri who saw UFO, the Highland in Illinois, I think it was back 2000, a bunch of these cops saw, you know, this large, large craft about, you know, foot a half or two football fields. This thing was so bright, but he could stare right into it.

And it was so bright. It didn't cast a shadow, and it didn't reflect any of the decals. You reflect the decals on the squad car. So it's kind of interesting. Then again, it's kind of scary because you're looking at something. You're going, well, this doesn't jive with anything that we have now in current technology. What is this? And I'm looking at it and just looking at me.

Really good point. So James asks, before we move on to the next episode, Hi, Heather and Chuck, do animal mutilations only occur at night? I mean, have you guys ever come across cases where this has happened during the daytime? You know, that's a really good question. The thing is about that question is every one of my cases are free-ranging animals. And they're not really near the ranch house. So the rancher only knows that he saw the animals a day before.

and then the next day, you know, he sees him dead. There was one case that I talked with the son of the person, his dad actually saw a mutilation take place. And this was in Colorado. And I'm still trying to get a chance to talk to him, but he's told the whole family, as far as the family's concerned, you know, dad doesn't lie. But he's afraid to talk about it.

He's afraid to go on camera. He's afraid to talk to anybody about it because what he experienced. And that was during daytime. All the other cases, I really can't tell you because it's all afterwards I show up and afterwards the, you know, the rancher sees them the next day. Although there are times where the ranchers have seen balls of light at night, right, in the same areas where the animals have been mutilated. So, you know, I don't know. You know, that's a good call. Yeah.

And, I mean, welcome to Uphology. Most of, you know, once a UFO event happens, it's too late, you know. I think that's the most frustrating thing about being a UFO investigator is once you're called to the scene, it's usually over already. Now, I would say your guy's show more than almost any other investigative show I've seen, you have, you caught things in the act, which was really interesting. And we will get to those episodes where that really amped up. I do want to move to opt outside on YouTube said the Sedona episode had absolutely stunning scenery. I would have to agree. And for those in the UFO world, a lot of people know about Sedona.

This is a hotbed for UFOs. And it's just a beautiful, weird, strange place in general. So I guess, Heather, we'll start with you. What was it like going to Arizona and going to this place that a lot of people really think is like a literal, like UFO highway, like a vortex of sorts. It was pretty amazing. You know, Arizona has always been one place I've wanted to visit and being able to go there and go to the vortexes and just be outside, looking at the stars and just watching the sky.

It was pretty incredible. And yeah, that whole episode, I mean, we got some pretty good evidence on that, on that one. And it's definitely a place that I would love to go back to. Yeah. I mean, did anything really stick out to you in terms of like what you saw there that personally made you feel, yeah, this is definitely a special, special place. Let me think. Oh, yeah, I mean, when we were at Bradshaw Ranch, for example, you know, the witness we were

interviewing, right, I think it was after we had heard the sound. It sounded like someone was rattling like something metal, like the gate. We heard that sound and our witness immediately said she saw like a shadow go above the trees. And then, you know, shortly after that, we're just looking at the sky and we see it looked like a planet, you know, lighting up on the horizon, and it gets really bright and all of a sudden it just disappears. And like our whole crew saw it.

That's just one of the things we saw. How about you, Chuck? Anything really stick out to you when it came to the Sedona episode? Sorry, I was looking for the graph show restaurants. Oh, not at all, man. Caught you off guard there. You know, I've been to... I'm loving these visuals, by the way, in the background.

Thank you. There's another one of my investigations where, you know, You know, I was, I investigated the Phoenix Lights and then, not Bradshaw Ranch, but Sedona and the vortex is there. But it was really exciting for me to go back and actually, you know, go to the Bradshaw Ranch and see it firsthand because that was the first time I seen it. And I actually captured something on camera. I don't know if I, I think I made it on the show, you know,

while we were there at night and there was a ball light that popped up. And I just happened to, you know, catch it with my camera. camera. But what was really cool about that is there's just, you know, I was born in Arizona. I was born in South of Arizona, so it was cool to go back to Arizona and go, hey, you know, this is, this is my, you know, my home state here. And, and, but, you know, when I left Arizona, it was like I was nine, so I didn't get a chance to do all that cool stuff. But, you know, we, we covered the Phoenix lights. And when I was living, living in California at the time, I was investigating the Phoenix lights and I tracked the Phoenix lights, right witnesses from Arizona. Actually, I think I'm sorry,

it was Nevada, California, into Arizona, and, you know, when they actually saw him in Arizona. And so it's kind of cool to go back and talk to, you know, not only eyewitnesses, but pilots. And actually, we got to talk to a pretty cool pilot that saw a very recent, you know, UFO while he was, you know, at altitude. and was even more cool was one of my Harley riding friends out here in Colorado. They happened to be in Arizona at the time on vacation, and they were traveling just on a freeway, and they saw everybody pull up the freeway, and they were all steering up, so they pulled over, and they looked up.

And here we had a pilot that saw this thing above his airplane, and now I have my friends who saw just by coincidence from the ground, and they could see it, so we had two different aspects of. And this just happened just a year before. So it was really cool to share that as fairly recent evidence, especially with a commercial airline pilot. Right. Now, when it comes to vortex, I'd love to get both your personal thoughts on this.

Do you really think there are geographical places in the world where these phenomena or these aerial anomalies can jump in and out of? I mean, we've heard so many things like the laylines or, you know, the Seven Wonders of the World being these places where like stuff can hop in and out. Do you think there's any scientific basis behind any of this, whichever one of you like to take? I would like Heather go first. Sure. I mean, I think it's a pretty plausible theory. I don't really, you know, have very much of a scientific background to like validate it.

But it makes sense that, you know, an area with such a. amount of energy can get magnified and can attract disturbances like this. I think it's definitely possible. But I like exploring those and asking those questions about, you know, does it create a thinner veil? You know, do the red rocks have something to do with the things that are happening in Arizona? I think there's a lot of things that kind of go into play that mix with the vortexes that maybe creates this energy. Yeah. I think, you know, a lot of people think that there's certain areas and there are certain elements in the earth, I guess, as it were, that let's say there is a intelligence behind the UFOs, that they're trying to tap into those resources.

So that's why we see them in these really mountainous areas or why we see them in bodies of water. Like maybe this is something they need. I don't know. I'm just spitballing. But Chuck, what do you think? What do you make of vortexes in general? Well, you know, it's kind of interesting because I've always, you know, I had a fascination with vortexes for a long time.

Because I've been to Sedona a few times. It's an energy that you can't measure, that you physically can't see, and you can't measure with any type of instruments, yet you can feel it, which is kind of really bizarre. You know, how that works. Yeah.

As a UFO investigator, I get people all the time to talk about, you know, vortexes or some type of, of energy columns or stuff that's happening. And from a scientific point of view, it kind of makes sense in some cases when you look at, even if you look at multidimensional universes and stuff, we're still trying to figure out wormholes and black holes.

And all right, we know the energy from a wormhole or black hole or many wormholes or something could extend out as a cone and some interesting things can happen. Like with the Bradshaw Ranch, you know, the, I think it was the wife's owner, I forget her name. Of course, the other people remember. She actually, you know, besides seeing, you know, creatures and UFOs and stuff,

the dinosaur popped up. And not only did that that happen at Brashtar Ranch, but there was another case I was investigating near Sedona, that that happened also where a little boy, you know, he was just looking and, you know, they were just out on vacation, and all of a sudden you saw just the, whole just like playing of dinosaurs and stuff. It was almost like he was watching TV.

And it was only for a few seconds and it was gone. So that's happened to me in Colorado at the base of very cliff dwelling. I was with my brother-in-law. And I thought I was just daydreaming. But we were in a really sacred area at the base of very cliffs. But we were, you know, on the land where they had, they were underground and then they came above ground before they went to the cliffs. And for a split second,

and I just talked about this on the podcast, that's why I was kind of remembering that for a split second, I saw the whole village. And I'm going, I'm looking at it. Well, that's pretty cool. But then I thought I was daydreaming. And my brother-in-law Lynn was there, and I walked up, and I looked at my brother-in-law,

and he had this kind of shocked look on his face. I'm going, what's going on? And he goes, man, I just saw a village. I'm going, what? That's really interesting. Like, you do have to wonder, you know, are these snippets in time that are just getting, you know, mixed up? A lot of people think, I don't know, Heather, in the paranormal world. Like, when we see a ghost, it's not so much like a disembodied spirit.

It's literally we're seeing a moment in time played out, not in the temporal time as we know it. So whatever that is might be just as scared and confused and surprised of seeing us as we are of them. know. I don't know. Is there anything there? Maybe I'm just crazy. Something that came to my mind when we were talking, I totally forgot about this because it didn't make the episode, but we interviewed this guy named George that one summer he was having like a barbecue in his backyard and they just looked out and they saw this giant, like his backyard, he had this gorgeous view of these mountains and there was all this land and he saw this giant craft just kind of fly by and everyone was like, what was that? And then shortly after,

a couple jets come by as if they're, you know, tracking this object. I don't know why that didn't make the episode. I thought it was a really intriguing story. Do you remember that, Chuck? Yeah, I do remember that. That was it's kind of weird because it kind of reminded me of well, we'll talk about Tijuana

Paul later, but, you know, that happens in Area 51 too where there's a lot of people see go see a craft or something, you know, blink on or blink off or they'll or they'll see chase jets. And I had a

case over here in Colorado just before Christmas time where somebody had saw something up in northern Colorado and then they said that it was awful fast and then all of a couple of jets. That was all during the that big drone, you know, over by Fort Collins and stuff

and over into Wyoming all these drones and we still know who those drones belonged to. I'm pretty sure it was, you know, our military kind of messing around. But it's really interesting stuff when when you talk to someone and they're trying to explain

what they've seen and in their mind they're like boy I hope this guy doesn't think I'm crazy my point of view it's like man I've heard this like millions of hours right it's kind of fun watching the expression on face like I wasn't crazy I'm not crazy I wasn't on drugs you know Nothing shocks Chuck anymore.

Trust me, guys. You can come to him with the weirdest stuff you want to. All right. So I want to move to California with you guys, if that's cool. We're getting to my personal favorite episodes of the show so far. SoCal clusters. Now, all of our audience is going to be very familiar. This episode was very timely, and it ties into a lot of what's going on within the last few days of the Defense Department.

officially, you know, acknowledging that these UFO videos we've been seeing from the Navy are authentic and they are still unidentified and they are official Navy videos. So, you know, saying that they were CGIed is out of the question at this point, saying they were conventional aircraft out, you know. So we do live in a really interesting time now in terms of the military and UFOs. And a lot of this came from SoCal. So I would love to get your personal thoughts on this. I guess we'll start with you.

What do you make of these Navy videos and the ongoing activity going on, you know, off the coast of Southern California? I mean, it's very fascinating to me because, you know, there's really high-level pilots that have come forward, you know, talking about this. So it's like, they're not idiots. They know what they saw, you know. So it's, there's just so many stories you hear. But the whole, you know, our whole episode, we kind of tied in like, Is the military watching these crafts or the crafts watching the military, vice versa? So I don't know.

I really, that was probably one of my other favorite episodes, too, for many reasons. Yeah. Well, we do have a question that some of the viewers really want to know, the biggest mystery in the SoCal episode. What the hell was up with your hat? I had to ask. I have to ask. Explain that to us.

So, you know, we were going out on a boat. You know, we had a free day in LA. So me and some of the production guys, we went to this like Army surplus store. And I bought like five different berets and all these random like bright colors. And then I saw this sailor hat that looked like one that I had that I forgot to pack.

So I was like, I'm gonna buy this and we're on the episode. And later on down the road, I found out that the travel channel hated that. So I got into some trouble for that. But I mean, it was, fitting for the episode and it looked cool. You know, I looked like I was right off of Sunset Strip. You know. She looked like Gilligan. But funny story, we were filming a scene on that boat. I mean, it was so windy and we were

standing on the top deck of the boat. And I mean, the camera's right on us. And all of a sudden, a gust of wind just blows the hat off and the camera pans over and gets a shot of it just like floating in the ocean. And I'm just like, my hat. The tragedy hat story. I love it. How about you, man? I mean, you guys came across some really interesting stuff in this episode. It's clear that, you know, the TikTok event was not the only UFO event that happened in Southdale. So what do you make of this one, man? Well, one thing I wanted to show was, that's kind of probably hard to see.

But here's Daniel. He actually had to go through training to be able to use that full mask, you know, that I was able to talk to him while he was underwater. And so it was the training was supposed to be done a couple days before, but because of weather and some other things, you know, it happened that day, basically, and early, early in the morning. So he was a real trooper to jump in that water, you know, with just, just, you know, recently, you know, with that training. But what I really liked about that episode is, first off, you know, because when I lived in California, I've always known and heard about the problem. ability that there's this underwater opening over by Malibu. And there's been a lot of UFOs seeing coming on, and, you know, USOs and stuff coming out of the water, into the water, and all along the coast.

And even when I was contracting in San Diego a few years ago, there was a siding there off of San Diego. So the West Coast was pretty hot. So it was really cool to go back and visit that. And the best part I liked about is I had to be. this really cool light experiment that I used for one of the Missouri shows that, you know, I had it set up on the beach and it's 16 floodlights and the 16 floodlights blink binary, you know, so they flash in binary code. And we actually picked up something,

Heather and Daniel were looking at the binoculars over in Missouri and while those lights were going off. They actually saw a light. And at first Daniel was, oh, no, that's got to to be a plane and then it stopped. And so I got to use that experiment on the boat and I kind of figured out how to do it. And I took the 16 lights and I put eight on one side and eight on the other. And I pointed them down to the water. And then we had lights underwater for anything that was underwater that having to be traveling or anything to try and pick up the light underwater and then it would see my lights.

It was kind of choppy that day. It was, you know, the weather was coming in. I mean, the experiment worked, worked pretty well, but the whole time Daniel was underwater, you know, he was being thrashed back and forth under the boat and further down. But while he was down there, you know, he saw something. He saw it like. Yeah.

And it was, but it was way cool. It was when we, you know, me, Daniel, and Heather are with production and we're going over the audio that the cameraman under water, too picked up this really cool sound. And so we brought a marine biologist in. And, you know, when I listened to it, I thought maybe it was a whale. And then she got listened to. She goes, well, it kind of sounds like maybe a whale.

And she listened. She goes, no, that's mechanical. And what mechanical? That was awesome. So we picked up something underwater that could have been a submarine. Could have been something else. But these things where we actually picked up relevance. Right. And I think, again, this is what set the show apart is you guys were, you were innovative in terms of your investigations using some of the most high-tech stuff out there, which you don't see often. You know, you just see someone shining a flashlight in the sky thinking they're going to vector in a UFO. But you guys actually like, you went all out for this. In this episode, particularly, in terms of the underwater aspect, it really reminds me of the testimony of Commander David Fraberg.

who saw the Tick-Tac thing. I mean, he said when this thing dropped down to the ocean, he saw a massive object below the water, you know, sort of turning up the water, and that it was 10 times as big as the Tick-Tac itself. So, I mean, is it possible that these things in the sky are actually coming from beneath the ocean? Maybe that is something you guys came across when you're there.

I don't know. Well, I mean, you know, the Earth's 70% of the Earth is water. Yeah. And so, yeah, that's always been, that's the other thing, too, is every one of the cases with animal mutilations and balls of light and even UFOs, not every one of them, but, you know, a vast majority, the UFOs and balls of light are seen near water. So there is some type of connection between water and the UFOs and, you know, the balls of light. Maybe it's hydrogen, you know, it can't be oxygen because we got plenty of that. So maybe they're, you know, it's hydrogen or something, or maybe they're just drinking out of them. But the thing is, is, you know, a matter of fact, I mean, hell, the Pentagon just came out just recently with those same videos you were talking about.

It said, oh, yeah, by the way, yeah, they were real. Old news. Do you're about two years late on that one. Hey, I guess we can be happy that they're at least officially acknowledging it now. But, yeah, I think they're backtracking a lot. I think the real work is being done by independent investigators and researchers. So now, that was one of my favorites. I do want to move on to the next one.

Now, Storm Area 51 was a big thing last year. Everyone wanted to see those aliens at the base. I went out there. I'm not going to lie, I was out there weeks before Storm Area 51. I'm always early for everything. I was a pre-me baby. So I did miss the actual event, but let's talk about escape from Area 51. Now, I know, Chuck, that you had an informant who gave you news that there was possibly something that got out of Area 51.

Can you explain this to me, man? Where this story might have come from and what basis you had to go off of? Well, it's not a new story to me because I, I've known about that particular story. Matter of fact, the movie Paul, if anybody's familiar with the movie Paul, the comedy about the alien that escapes from Area 51. That's basically based on that story.

And I've been to Area 50, not I haven't been to Area 51, but I've been, you know, too close to the Westgate. And when I lived in California, you know, I was one of the first four people that hiked at Top of Ticaboo Peak to see Area 51 off at distance just after Freedom Ridge was taken.

So it's always been really interesting to me. But we had heard a story that, you know, EBE, extraterrestrial biological entity, you know, they call, that was his nickname EBE, had escaped or from Area 51, but later found out that basically it was someone, you know, people helped them escape. And it's a really, really cool story. We didn't cover too much of the story itself, but people in Tonapaw, which is just, you know, outside of Area 51 where the proving grounds is. They're still seeing creatures and stuff.

And we actually got to, you know, there was someone picked up this thing going across, you know, the screen on his dash camp, and that was in the show. But it was really cool to go back and then talk to Tonapal, or the people in Tonopal. And the story itself is this way cool

where, you know, you have someone who, who, you know, helped this alien, escape and then gosh, I've started to remember that bar The Tjana Paul Liquor Company? Yeah, the bar that was closed that we that we were at. Anyway.

Yeah, I don't remember. Oh, that was in Warm Springs, right? Yeah, there's a bar in Warm Springs, yeah. Yeah. So they so you had, the story goes that you had someone from from Airy 51 and Insider helped an alien escape. They're in their vehicle and they drive to this intersection.

And Warm Springs is right there and the bar's right there. And that was the trade-off area. And then the alien was moved from one vehicle to the other and then the other vehicles started taking off in another direction. But they were at the bar long enough that the people at the bar actually saw the alien and there was a picture of it at one time,

photograph of the darn thing that was hanging in a bar. But they just, you know, yeah, so I guess no news to them. And then the story goes that as the alien was escaping, you know, in the new car that they were overcome by, you know, MPs or special forces or whoever, anyway, whoever did. And there was a firefight and the alien escaped. And then the story goes further. But not as far as I got. Now, with the informant, the informant said that a rancher had seen the alien took a shot at it,

and then the alien was buried. Now, I know from a UFO, as a UFO investigator, that there's no way in hell that, you know, that he's going to bury an alien and the army is just going to let that, you know, be there. No, it's not the case as far as I'm concerned. that if there was a firefight there and the alien took off that they were pursuing it just like they found the debris at Roswell 47

they pursued it until they found it all they would be pursuing that too across Canada in a Volvo destination Vancouver turn left to leave travel west through approaching continue toward

you've arrived adventure and comfort with Volvo. Whether you prefer gas, plug-in hybrid, or fully electric, there's a Volvo for everyone. Learn more at VolvoCars.ca.com. Hey, y'all, it's Kelly Clarkson with Wayfair. Ever order furniture online and wonder what if? Like, what if it doesn't hold up? That sofa was four days old. You should have ordered from Wayfair. With Wayfair, there's no what-if. Just style you love and quality you can trust. Visit Wayfair.ca. Wayfair, every style, every home. So if the alien was shot, then the military grabbed him.

But the thing is, is what we were looking for, and Daniel and Heather found it, was evidence that the military was there, you know, like maybe a quick bivouac or something. And that's what we found with the metal detectors, and some of it was just barely hidden in the ground, too. So we definitely knew that the coordinates that the informant gave me, that that was where we found evidence that the military was there. And the evidence seemed pretty old, you know, that it would date back 20-some years that, you know, when it really happened.

Yeah, this is one of our commenters pointed this out. This is one of the episodes, too, one of a few, where you guys had some people following you, possibly. Are we talking men in black? What was going on with these unmarked cars that seem to be trailing you guys on a few of these investigations? Or what are your theories, I should say? It wouldn't be the first time that UFO investigators have been trailed. I've been trailed before.

My sister's been trailed. And the vehicles that came up to us in Kona Pau, I later saw one of the vehicles. part the air base where we were at we had permit to be there and it was vacant but there was a part of the air base there was still a small stretcher there that they ran a small airport and i saw one of the vehicles there later on and i was just thinking well maybe it's just you know security for them or something but was really interesting though it was a black SUV SUV suburban and we had one too. And after it aired, I got this email from this lady going, you know, shenanigans, shenanigans. You guys did it. No, actually, there was another black S-serva.

There's only one black SUV in the world. Black suburban in the world. There was another one over there. And I personally think that it was the security, because, I mean, we had to get a permit. This was a former military base. I think that they just were curious about what we were doing. But when we pointed the cameras around towards them, they took off. So I don't know. But this isn't the first time.

Yeah, it was interesting. Now, Heather, correct me if I'm wrong. Was this the episode where you got to sort of show off your paranormal investigation chops? Is this the one where you went into the house? So we were at the Tonapaw test range, which is considered to be, you know, people know it as area 52 because it's considered to be the jinx field because a lot of um a lot of like aircraft training accidents had happened where there was one incident where 200 people died so you see we're on this you know we're in the desert and you see this huge airport hangar and that's

one of the places where i was like okay guys i need to go in there it has a keep out sign look look at it there has to be some crazy stuff that has happened in here so you see me going in there and just kind of going in and out of the little rooms and I find this one room that's, you know, of course, the first one I want to go into is the one that's boarded up because I think there has to be something good in there. Yeah. So I go in and, you know, it's just kind of me exploring what seems to be somebody's drug den or something.

But yeah, that was interesting. But I had my fleer and I was kind of looking around. I didn't really get, in terms of paranormal activity, I didn't really get too much in that area. But the whole area overall was pretty creepy. Right. And I mean, wasn't this where Daniel also either saw or possibly heard some sort of creature, if I'm mistaken? I think he was looking, wasn't he looking down into some, it was like a body of water. Yeah, it was almost like a dam of some sort.

Yeah. You heard something down there. And then that was the episode too that, and I'd have to be honest with you. So, you know, we had a showrunner and we had a director. and the director was with us, Mitch, and then a showrunner was off doing a 10-100, basically. And this is a night, and we're inside this impression, this large impression in the ground where all these openings are. I mean, there was an underground facility there, and they were digging it out. There was a lot of places for something to hide there.

And so, Dan's got the flare, and I'm with them. And around this dirt berm, we see this kind of image come out on us. And we go, what the hell is that? Right. Well, no, that's got to be so-and-so, you know, doing his business. And then we hear his voice off at a distance to him and right. So we just took out running. We were trying to chase it down.

And then it must have scurried behind that, you know, behind that dirt mound and there was a lot of, I don't want to say, mines or caves or anything, they're not really caves with their underground facilities that they were digging out. So there's a lot of places for something to hide there. And that was pretty cool because we captured it on Fleur. And my first thought was, you know, it's one of the production team, but it definitely wasn't because, you know, there was only a couple of us down there and we found out where the guy was when we yelled at it.

So that was interesting. that was like, what was that? You know, was it that same creature that someone had filmed on their dash cam? Now, just to tell everybody out there that's watching this, get a dash cam. In the middle of nowhere, you'd be surprised. You know, you ever watch these shows where people go, you know, a big foot ran across my truck? Well, you know, if you had a dash cam, you would have caught that. Problem solved, yeah.

As soon as dash cams came out, I always had one in my vehicle. If you're going to do any type of investigations at all going any place where there's any type of paranormal activity outdoors, get yourself, you know, they're very cheap now. Get yourself a dash cam that runs 24-7. And you'd be surprised. You might catch something. Yeah, yeah, I couldn't agree with you more. And, you know, you guys weren't able to catch it that time, but maybe it's still out there if it is out there. And I just hope it's safe, you know.

I hope it's keeping a six-foot distance from everyone right now as well. All right, we're moving to my top two favorite episodes. This next one is near and dear to my heart. Roswell, New Mexico. I've personally investigated this case. I've shared many notes with Heather about what we found on our investigation, what you guys found. And it's pretty interesting, Chuck.

Now, this is a part of the story that not a lot of people have ever heard about. And that's everyone knows about the crashed, craft, the military cover-up, whatever the wreckage was shipped off to Wright-Patterson, Area 51, wherever, whatever base you want to say, it's at now. But a lot of people don't think about the pieces that hundreds of army or military people who are out there on the crash site picking piece after piece up off the ground, maybe something got into someone's pocket accidentally. So when it comes to this,

I was really, really impressed with this map that was given to you, where possibly some of the wreckage from the Roswell UFO crash, where it may still be housed. So yeah, can you tell us a little about how you came to find this big development in the Roswell case, first and foremost? Well, Roswell's, like the very first type of investigation I started doing when I got in called in Uphology. And when I lived in California, any time he went on investigating, or any time he went on any type of family trip, you know, vacation, there was always by way of Roswell. I mean, you could ask Daniel that any of my kids or my wife. And so I learned

from a very, you know, long time ago, you know, all the key players, Walter Hodden and Glenn Dennis and then got to meet the, you know, the investigators there. And so I, I got involved in investigating the debris site. Now, for people who don't really understand what happened out there is what we think what happened is there was two craft that were next to each other. There were a thunderstorm going on that night. They were flying over Roswell. Roswell Army Air Force Base, our I think it was called us Walker Base at the time, was our only strategic air command base. So it was a pretty popular base.

Matter of fact, that's where the crew of the Nola Gay train. So that's kind of tells you how sophisticated that piece was. So these two UFOs are flying over the base. There's a thunderstorm going on, horrific thunderstorm going on, and either they collide or something, there's theory to that. They were hit by direct beam radars. Because back in the day, direct beam radar is no different than our microwave radar.

And if you want to see an object off the distance, since you just turn up the juice. So, you know, they were being triangulated by three different radar stations. The juice was turned up to try and focus on a bird of thunderstorm and sliding strike. Anyway, one went down to Plains in St. Augustine and one over by Corona and Roswell. And there was a skip. That's what the debris side is. It came down, skipped.

And as it's skipping, about three miles, it was turning a bit. And there was a hole in the side and an alien or two fell out with some debris. And then 17 miles later, it's sort of impact. over by the, I just drew a blank on the mountains, but anyway, that's where Boy Scout Mountain is. And so we know there was debris everywhere, and the military picked up the debris at the debris site, and then there was a second site where there was debris,

and this is where we think the ranchers had found it. Now, my sister Debbie and I had gone out there a few times, and we actually dressed up one time as geology, asking the locals there where, you know, where there were sinkholes or caves or anything like that? Because that story's been around for a while through locals. There's not a lot of it's been publicized, but, you know, if you're an investigator, you know, talk to the locals, they all talk about it. And so that's what we were trying to do.

That was a few years ago. So it was kind of cool when I was able to nail it down. We had a map that we got from an informant. And then we tested that map again. expertise with Don Schmidt, who I've known for a long time, who was, you know, Roswell investigator, researcher. And he was actually trained under Jay Allen Heinex. So, you know, he's a heck of a guy.

So we actually brought him in tune. He said, well, you know, I'll tell you, that map's coming. But you should look here. And I didn't heard about both places. I've never seen the map before. I knew that there was something out there. So it was really cool to go there and try to. look for, you know, a cave or something. And then when we got pinpointed back closer,

which was about three miles away from the debris site, which makes sense from the eye wooded that we had, that we had interviewed, Fon Fritz, who was the granddaughter of MacBrasil, was, you know, was the one that told us about, you know, that Pacific site, too. And so way cool. And, you know, what was interesting about that was, we knew that. We knew There were caves there. When we got there, unfortunately, the, you know, the person who said that there was a cave there for us to investigate the cave that, you know, they used explosions and dynamite and dynamite at the entrance. And then so we were looking, we knew that that whole place had caves. And Daniel knocked it out of the park on that one.

You know, Heather and I are, you know, we're investigating these two openings that were blocked. you know, cave openings that were blocked. And Daniel took off with Neil, the cameraman, like he always does. And he starts showing, hey, you know, anyway. And sure enough, you know, he found an opening. He found a cave. And that would make sense. From what the witness described, the cave was pretty large.

You wouldn't hide Rosal DeBring in something that was obvious. You would hide it in something that was less obvious, like a smaller cave opening. And that was the, we were at the right place. And it was just like, oh, my gosh, history. all this is coming back at once right at us. Right. And I mean, when you guys did find the opening, that's when, you know, it was time to really try to focus on, well, let's try to see what's down there. And this is kind of where, you know, the drama of the episode hits.

And I know a lot of people probably watching this, including myself, were wondering, you know, you guys kind of got stymied on your investigation by the owners of the property. They didn't want you there any longer or digging or anything. So, yeah, what was that like, that whole experience? You're there, you have, you found something that could be, you know, history changing. And then, boom, no, sorry, you got to go. What was that like? I'll let Heather take this one. It was a total letdown.

I mean, we got so far. And this guy, right off the bat, there was just something off about him because he's like, you know, he's real excited for us to be there. and try to find this cave, yet at the same time, he keeps talking about how his family wants it to remain a secret and how, you know, growing up, his grandma always told him not to go near this one area because, you know, they figured it was where this debris was hidden. So it was, it really sucked to, like, at the end, when we're finally, like, realizing we really found a cave, we can't go any further. You know, he comes rolling in and says, you know, we have to stop. We have to think about my family, and we don't want you to go any further.

So it was a bummer. But, I mean, it was an amazing experience. That's one, we definitely, it would be amazing to go back to and actually just dig up his whole property and see what we find. Right. I mean, is that a possibility? Or is this it? Are we done at this area where wreckage might possibly be?

What do you think, Chuck? No, not at all. Because what it was, and it was a little more. dramatic on TV that, you know, really happened. But I think what was going on was, if we found debris, what that, what would that mean to the people, you know, living there? And I can't tell you whether or not it's a, you know, monetary type of thing. Like, oh, I got alien debris because there's, you know, there's a lot of organizations out there that'll pay a million, two million dollars for, you know, absolute proof of a flying craft, you know,

UFO or Faisa or whatever. Or there's also cases where if you do find something, the men and black show up. The men of black, I mean, there's always kind of different aspects of men and black are the aliens or other, you know, do they work with the government? I think they, you know, more work for the government. There may be a combination of them. Yeah.

But still, they have, you know, people have been visited by these, you know, the guy that I talked about earlier that had, you know, show they actually had evidence of of a daylight cattle mutilation. You know, his house was broken into the next day and things were stolen. And, you know, including the camera. And it was ransacked. So somebody was monitoring that and the fact that he monitored that. That's why he doesn't want to talk about it.

So this is the case with that rancher there too. If we find something, what does that mean for them? What's going to happen? You know? And so I think after talking to the family, The decision was, let's hold off a bit. And I talked to him afterwards, Daniel and Heather was with us also. And he basically said, you know, he gave us permission to come back.

Because if we come back again, we weren't really prepared because we were prepared to go into a cave. You know, Dan and I had, you know, had the gear and Daniel was going to go in and, you know, and, you know, I was going to, you know, hold the rope. I'm not going in there. Hold my beer, dad. Hold my rope. Oh, I mean, you know, he's more fit than I am. And so, but we realized that we just didn't have the gear to do that.

And we were already at the end of that shoot. And so we did get permission if we wanted to to come back. And this time we would come back, you know, with proper gear, some big machinery and actually get in there. Now, what didn't make the show because everybody had stopped, I don't know if you can see the hole off from the background over here. And then that's how Daniel found it originally. And then we were able to dig it out further. And when we looked inside and had a GoPro in there and stuck Heather's head inside there.

It went way back. Okay. And we knew that there's a big cave complex there. And so if it wasn't that hole, there's plenty other holes around there. But the thing was, so production left in that black, you know, suburban. And then my truck's parked there, around 1,500 rebels. So it's a fairly heavy truck. So it's sitting there.

And I'm throwing gear in the back. And just after the suburban left, as I walked up, opened the door of the driver's door, my whole body lifted like this. I went up and down on the ground. I'm standing on the ground. And I got lifted up off the ground and back. back on the ground. The ground actually moved and my heart just kind of like stopped there going sinkhole was the first thing I was thinking of. I'm like, oh my God, we're going to, we're going to drop into

a sinkhole. And you can ask Heather that, you know, dad, because here, if they saw this like, Chuck, look at my face, what's wrong? I'm going, I just got lifted off the ground when the suburban left. That means it's hollow underneath, a lot hollow. Right. And so I carefully got you know, in the truck and we backed out of there. And man, I tell you, so when we go back, depending on the type of, if we go back, you know, the type of equipment we bring, we have to make sure it's not too heavy, I guess. Yeah. Yeah. This was, yeah, this is by far one of my favorite episodes.

Just, again, this is the case, the seminal case in UFO history. So the fact that you even got to like be where a UFO possibly crashed and was recovered. That's a powerful thing. I know when I stepped foot on the supposed crash site, I mean, just like decades of history just started flooding through me. So that was really cool. Heather, what did you make? I mean, being a paranormal investigator, you now were like thrown into, thrown in with the wolves here, investigating the biggest UFO case of all time.

So like any pressure or like what'd you go and thinking of the whole Roswell? Oh my God. I mean, it was completely amazing. You know, and from the start reading about it and researching about it, I definitely agree that it would, you know, there were a lot of things covered up, as you guys probably agree to. There's a lot of unanswered questions. So going into this, for me,

it was amazing to interview one of the proctors and get confirmation that, you know, they didn't keep debris because that was a rumor going around, you know, that they, they were hiding. debris. So it was just really cool to go to the debris site and actually stand there with the Proctor's and just see them looking around and taking it all in. And it was incredible. I remember like picking up rocks and being like it was incredible. It was incredible. Like not many people can say they get to go to the debris site. And it was funny because I was going through one of my recorders. And I was transcribing the Sandy Proctor interview and I left the recorder on when we were in your

truck, Chuck, and we were going to the debris site trying to find it. And it's just really funny hearing us talk because I'm like, wait, I don't see anything because I was assuming there was going to be like a little pipe marker where the debris site was. And Chuck, you just go, what do you think we're going to see like a crashed UFO? And we just start laughing. Well, it was really cool because my sister and years ago tried to talk to D. Proctor, his older brother.

And when we got to that area where Sandy, Proctor lives, that's where Dee lives, or lived. You know, there was these big signs that says, you know, trespassers will be shot. And he was a pretty reserved guy back in the day, so we didn't get a chance to actually meet Dee. So it was a real pleasure for me to meet Sandy. Now, you know, an earlier TV show I did for the sci-fi channel, my sister and I actually found a piece of debris at the debris site.

We were doing an archaeology dig there back in 2000. and I had that debris analyzed under electron scanning microscope. And you can see it behind me here. This is a picture of it, you know, with this is probably about 10 microns diameter. So this thing was a little of silicon alloy. And it had, it was like a little explosion type of holes in it and stuff when we looked at it under electron scanning microscope. And it was trace elements of titanium a little bit here and a little bit there.

And that was really cool. And so, you know, I've been around that whole area, and this thing was analyzed actually by Bass, by Bigelow Aerospace. Within the first week that they analyzed it, they said it was an unknown polymer based on the catalog of polymers in their lab. Doesn't mean it's unknown to the planet. It just means it was unknown to the most popular polymers. And then I said, well, what's next? They said, well, Isoapropanalysis, and that's the last I ever heard of it.

Bigelow. A year later, they got back in and said, oh, it was nothing. Of course, we know about Bigelow being part of the Pentagon and being, you know, being funded part of the Pentagon. And that's about that same time he was being funded. So it was interesting now, now that I know what was going on at the time. I thought, what the heck is he doing? So we had also heard about that story where that debris was. So it was actually cool to go back to or go to that side because I never got an opportunity to visit that rent because I didn't exactly know where it was. Yeah, yeah, I think it was, again, these television shows, they provide opportunities for investigators to have resources they might not usually have. So, I mean, in one respect, yeah, it's television, it's entertainment, but in another respect, it's really cool to have that opportunity.

I mean, I was able to get possible wreckage from the debris site analyzed at an aerospace lab. That's something that I never in my wildest dreams thought I would be somewhat a part of. And just like you, we had really interesting results when it came to what this gentleman brought to us. So I think it's really cool that you guys got to visit one of the most elusive UFO cases of all time. And you also got to tackle one of the most mysterious places of all time. you did mention Bob Bigelow. So we're going strong. We're going to end with what actually was your premiere episode,

which I think was a really smart thing to do on the network's decision to do that is, boom, we're going to Skinwalker Ranch. So this is a hot, hot topic right now, you know, in terms of everything, bass and ATIP and some of the money that was used for the Secret Pentagon UFO program, actually most of it, was giving. given to Bigelow to investigate Skinwalker Ranch. So let's go. Let's do it, guys.

Heather, had you heard of this place? What did you make of Skinwalker Ranch before going there? And what were your expectations, I guess, going to the ranch? I mean, going into this, I knew that this was regarded as a true hotspot for not only UFO activity, but paranormal activity that, you know, scientists couldn't even really explain. So I knew going into it, it was going to be big. I wish we could have got behind that gate though, but amazing evidence we didn't have to.

So it was again, to be a person like me that's always read about these places to be able to go there, you never imagine that that's going to happen and then you get to go. And it was incredible. And it's, you know, it's all documented on television so I can always revisit it. That's such a good point. It's immortal at this point. Chuck, how about you, man?

Had you ever been out to the area of the ranch before in your past investigations? And yeah, what was it like going there? I'm in that area, but I've never been at the ranch because I've done some investigations from Colorado into Utah and then over by Vernal, but not actually where we were. And so it was a really plus for me. What was cool about that is this was one of the ones that I brought to the attention of Rick. I said, because where do you want to go? I said, well, I've been getting contacts from a couple of different people that there's stuff going on outside the Skinwalker Ranch. You don't have to be at the ranch.

You know, sort of like, you know, San Luis Valley. Blanca Peak is where, you know, the first horse mutilation, you know, snippy the horse. But you don't have to be at Blanca Peak. The whole San Luis Valley is hot. Same thing over there. You don't have to be at the ranch because there's a lot of stuff happening out the ranch. You know, outside within 10. 15, 20 miles outside the ranch.

The whole place was hot. And so that was one of the things I said, I don't want to actually go into the ranch. Don't even worry about that, but there's so much going outside the ranch that I know we're going to come up with something. And we did. It was pretty cool.

I don't know if you can see this behind. And this is still puzzling to me. I don't think you can see that one. Yep, yep. Whoa. That's great. That is good. That, when I saw that,

on air when I watched it I freaked the F out, whoa, I almost went there. That is one of the most startling pieces of evidence, I think, that I've ever come across in terms of Skinwalker Ridge. A lot of legend in anywhere, yeah. A lot of legends say that there are these huge

dog-like beasts out there and you guys might have captured it. So what did you think when you first saw that video for the first time? Well, there's a little bit of a backstory first. Now, that's a, I have a couple of Moultrie game cameras. And just by talking to hunters, and I decided to buy Maltrie because it was a better camera. And that's what I was using.

There was a case in Missouri where two of our cameras, two of my cameras, were messed with. And anyway, heaven knows all about this. But the first thing I thought was, first thing I did is I blamed the person. production company because I thought, okay, they're just trying to manipulate evidence to make a good TV show. Okay, this is our first episode, okay, or one of our first episodes. So I'm still trying to fill out the whole experience of having, you know, being on a TV show. So that wasn't the case, you know, after we, you know, we figured out, you know, that the

production crew was anywhere near it. Then we thought, okay, maybe it was a witness or whatever. So it turns out we don't know what happened and who messed with, you know, with, you know, our cameras, but there was definitely footprints there. The thing was, so since then, any time that Daniel and I would place a camera, we tied it in a certain way. We put the batteries in a certain way that we knew that if anybody messed with the camera, that we would have evidence that we knew it.

And then all the evidence that was on a camera would just be nothing, right? I would have to disregard it as a UFO investigator because that's what I do. Now this case, I'm there watching this and I see that and if you and you almost, I don't know if you can almost see. Go back, go back, go back, go back. And then I don't know, maybe a little bit later on. I'm kind of like looking at like off at a distance a little bit. Well, if you watch that clip, it's because I'm thinking, I don't believe what I just saw. Someone effed with our cameras.

Production company got in there and effed with it. And I'm thinking through my mind, okay, how can they've done it? How can they do it? Well, no, when Daniel and I picked up the camera that morning, we checked the camera to see whether or not. We looked at the camera, and we placed it there, and everything that we placed there was us. Nothing was manipulated on the camera. And I got thinking, well, wait, the camera was in my truck. And then Neil just not long before that, hey, do you have that SD card? And so I gave them the SD card. There was no way that production could have manipulated.

that CG in it or anything, but I'm running it all through my head when I'm watching this, going, that can't be real, they can't be real. And even now when I'm watching this, I get goose pimples because it's like, that's real evidence. That is absolute real evidence. And, you know, when people watch that, it's just like, oh, well, you know, they manipulate it.

No, we didn't manipulate it. And I keep going through our mind each time, how that could have been manipulated, and I can't come up with a reason. So I'm trying to debunk that. Oh, you know, I've been. try to depunk that evidence, and I can't. There's no way. Yeah. I mean, it literally looks like this thing appeared out of thin air, materialized out of nowhere. I mean, Heather, what did you make of this

when you first saw it? I mean, when we first saw it, I was like, what? Like, there's no way. Because first of all, what the heck is it? Second of all, you know, you see clearly on the camera, and they didn't even show all the footage, but you can see where a car or a truck goes by, you can see where it's triggered. And we had, we had like what the camera had like 168 hits or something for the one of the whole cameras. So we had a lot of footage of just cars going by. And you can see none of them just appeared in the middle of the screen like this, this footage. So it's still like, I don't know if we'll ever really be able to explain it. Yeah. Well, I mean, and that's, and I've used these military cameras a lot. I started out with Bushnell. And I'm not blaming Bushnell at all.

I just went to a higher level camera. And like I just ordered another higher level camera earlier this year. I haven't got it yet. Don't tell my wife. But the thing is, is I've used them. I've used them in Bigfoot investigations. I've used them in cattle utilization investigations. And every single time, you can see the animal come in scene and leave seen or come

and stay there or whatever. nothing ever just appears. And I've been using these for years, started off with Bushnell, but I've been using things for years, and I've never, ever, ever experienced that. That's why the first thing in my mind, my first thought was,

we're getting left with, someone screwing with this. And then I keep, even without the production company knowing, I took the footage that night on my computer, and I ran it slide by slide by slide by slide to see if, even after I figured out there was no way they could have done it. Still that night, I went through each slide to see if the snow coming down, if there was a little, you know, like a splice or something in there,

and there wasn't. And I'm like, my God, I mean, this is, this is crazy. Even to this day, like I'm going, we captured a real phenomenal. Yeah, you captured that and you, I mean, there were random gunshots you guys heard. throughout the evening. There was also what one of the other big studying pieces of video evidence, I think you came across,

was these beams of light coming up over the mountain range. This was really interesting. So I guess Heather, we'll start with you. What did you make of these lights that you guys saw over the mountain range? Man, I mean, you can tell by my reaction that I was just so excited because, you know, we're standing there and you can just see a faraway shadow of Dan up on this mountain and you're wondering like, you know, what's he doing up there? And then all of a sudden, you just see the whole sky just light up and pulsate orange. And then above it,

you can see this white, and it almost looks like a doorway, like a white beam. And it's the thing that for decades, people have been seeing. And to think that we actually saw it, and it happened numerous times. And we're all just saying, like, what in the world is going on? Where are we? Right. And I know, you know, Daniel got so excited. He freaking. It booked it to try to get up the mountain range to see what was on the other side. Because as a viewer, that's immediately where mine, mine went. I was like, what's on the other side? Is there like a huge building or a something?

But, I mean, you guys were in the middle of nowhere. So is that something we can easily, you know, push away that that's what it was? Like, lights coming from a building of any sort? No, no, not at all. And I kind of give you a little bit of a backstory to this. Okay, cool. the directors were basically saying the show owner saying, okay, we have to, you know, travel channel told us that we have to do at least a couple night

investigations, even though it's minus 10 degrees. I was like, that's okay. We're investigators. That's what we do. And so we were supposed to do a night investigation at the crossroads where this was seen, right? And I'm thinking, no, because we interviewed. viewed a couple of people at the graveyard that had a paranormal experience, a creature experience, and there was all kinds of stuff happening there.

And as it turns out, Skinwalker Ranch is here, the graveyard is here, the crossroads is over here. So this is the middle. Something's going back and forth, or we might capture it there. And we went back and forth and back and forth. And Daniel and I, you know, we stuck to our guns, so to speak. We didn't pull any guns on them. We just sucked our guns and we said, no, no, we need to be at the cemetery. I just have this feeling that something's going to happen there that night.

And my gosh, you know, we were there. And kudos to the production crew because once we got through, they kind of figured out what we're going to do. I mean, Heather, of course, I mean, we picked up EVPs in a graveyard. Boy, that's Heather's area. the sound person with her, you know, with his high-tech stuff to see if you could pick up anything. I'm over by the fence where something came through the fence based on eyewitnesses. We put Daniel up on the ridge with Neil again, poor Neil.

And in case anything happens, he's our lookout. He's going to see if anything's coming in towards us. And as it turns out, everything was happening. You know, he saw a shadow or some type of figure. you're coming in. I'm talking to, you know, over the two-way, because I don't know, that could be a guy. I don't know. Maybe, I don't know, but it's coming in. And, and then, of course, Neil's got a really expensive camera. Daniel's using my $500 night vision camera, right? So, you know, Neil really captured what was going on. And then, and then the light is coming up. And we know,

we know that that area, that they, not that general area, but way off the distance of my, away off the distance that they're drilling oil and sometimes they they have a a methanol burst and so they they burn no methanol and that glows and that's the first thing that I thought in my mind but that I knew that area was where the Skinwalker Ranch was and we were just there the day before the day before that and there was no oil drilling around that area but it was the beam of light that was coming up through that now if it was just blowing off some methane, you wouldn't have that beam of light.

And I'm looking at it. And I'm talking to Heather, and she's looking at it, and everybody sees it. And it's like, what the heck is that? It doesn't make sense. All of a sudden, you know, my debunking tools, I can't debunk it because that's not blown off methane. Or you wouldn't have that beam of light.

What the hell's going on? Yeah. There's kind of like words. When you're in a situation like that, You're immediately thrilled, but at the same time, there's no words. Like, there's nothing. You're just like, what am I seeing? Like, it was bizarre.

And also to mention you, we forgot to include that I was standing there with this animal caller. And it was so loud that Dan was up on this mountaintop. And he could hear it. And it was echoing off the mountain. He thought it was like right behind him. So I had to turn it down. But, I mean, I remember doing that right before we heard the growl picked up in the microphone. The wolf coming in could have been answering to your animal.

Exactly, yeah. Yeah, yeah, you became the prank. Yeah, right. I always get myself in this situation. Yeah, right. But as investigators, which is really cool, because, you know, you watch these shows on TV, and they see something and they go,

UFO, or that's a ghost, or this is that, or that is that, you know. And without sitting there thinking, you're trying to debunk what they're thinking, You're trying to explain or trying to figure out. And I think at that particular time, especially with the wolf, and then even the figure we saw Tonapaw, the lights we saw in Missouri, that's all real-time stuff happening to us. And it's like we're trying to figure out what it is.

We're on camera, you know, we're both professional investigators. We want to be the first to say, no, that's not what we think it is. Now, we did debunk a couple of lights in Missouri. that the witness was seeing, that they were ports lights off the distance, but it turned out that he had, you know, PTSD and everything was happening to him. But when you get any situations,

you're trying to debunk it, and like what Heather's saying, we're just like, you know, trying to figure out what the heck's going on. And the best part is, is we're filming it, you know? Multiple cameras, too. It's great.

You know, we've got two cameras on it, you know, besides three, including mine, but, you know, and then Daniel's up on the ridge, which is perfect because I'm talking with Daniel going, Dan, Dan, get over there, find out where that light's coming from, and he's high tailing it at night, late at night, running on top of a ridge. Crazy, man, has no idea what he's going to see on the other side. Trying to find out what it is, and then the light goes out. Yeah, yeah. And methane burnoffs glow for a long, long time.

Yeah. And they're just not. So we know something's going on there. And not only at the ranch, but outside the ranch too. And, oh, yeah, I'm the first one, you know, that wants to go back. After, I mean, you can ask Heather a question, but I have a follow-up that I'd like to, a backstory, but I don't want to take Heather's time. Oh, in terms of Skinwalker?

Yeah. Yeah, cool. I mean, Heather, my only other question, I guess, was Skinwalker is, you know, where your paranormal investigative skills came in. I mean, you had a graveyard right in the middle of the ranch. So, like, what was it like? I mean, this isn't your typical graveyard or haunted house, I would say. You're in, like, a living laboratory of weirdness. So, like, how do you, how do you deal with something like that? Yeah, I mean, I got the best of both worlds being out there. I mean, I don't know. It's just, you're, you just get so in the moment. It just,

there's no thinking you just go for it. So I don't even know, I don't know how to answer that. Yeah. Because you never know what's going to happen in this field. It's just things happen and you're wondering, did I catch that on camera? Please tell me I caught that on camera. That is the most, yeah.

Yeah. You know about that graveyard, which is, it's cool. It's a community graveyard you don't need a permit for. Basically, you really don't know Who's buried there? It's for people, like, I think it's actually on Indian reservation land, too. But it's a community graveyard where, you know, someone passes away. The family just buries them.

And so who knows what's going on there. But the, I was going to talk about a backstory now. I just, oh, my gosh. Lost in mind. Oh, no, man. Hey, there's so much we can talk about. Oh, you got it? Now I'm here.

Oh, let's do it, please. I was so intrigued with what Heather was saying. You can tell you guys work well together. And she caught something and then our game cameras caught stuff. Our game camera, oh my God, picked up a conversation. Oh, that's right. In the second. Was that in the episode?

I forgot about that. There's just so much that happens that we all. We got more stuff in one episode than Ghost Hunters and Ghost Hunters and And Ghost Adventures, no offense to him, have picked up in two or three episodes. And yet we had so much stuff we couldn't put it. No offense to Zach or those guys, because I was on Ghost Adventures once. I want Zach coming after me because he pretty much owns Travel Channel. But we got the opportunity to meet a Native American elder, a Ute Elder.

And I interviewed him on camera, but that didn't make it on the show. There's just too much going on. You only have 42, 46 minutes or whatever. Right. And we probably shot 15 hours. But the thing is, is I got this opportunity to meet this Native American elder and talk to him about real stuff. Now, we talked off-camera first about what he can say and what he can't say

because he was under the permission of the U council to be able to speak with us. Okay. And he basically, there's certain things that you can't talk about. And Nialushi, Skinwalker, you can't use the name pretty much because that's inviting his Skinwalker and they don't like that. Yai Na'Aushi is the Navajo name for Skinwalker. I know I'm mispronouncing it, so I apologize to anybody. He speaks Navajo often.

So I'm talking to him. I said, so we know that there's a name, a Native American name for Bigfoot, Sasquatch. There's other names too. And does a U-Trib have a name for Bigfoot? Because Bigfoot's been seen in that area too. And he goes, yeah, it's part of that. You know, I'm going, whoa. I go, what about UFOs?

Does the U-FO tribe have a name for UFOs? And he goes, yeah, it's da-da-da. And I went, no, that's really interesting. I went, what about gray aliens? He goes, yeah, it's by that. And I'm going, what? The U-T tribe has got a U-Name for a gray alien, not just aliens, but for specific gray alien?

He goes, yeah. And he goes, oh, I can't talk about that on camera. And I said, well, I'm just like totally fascinated with this. Now, I go, how old is that name? It goes, oh, it's generations. I'm going, so the youth tribe has got a name for a gray alien that's been passed through generations. And he goes, yeah, I'm going, that's awesome.

And that same guy, too. Do you remember his experience? He saw a UFO and it emitted this red light. And for two weeks after he saw it, he felt the sensation of electricity going throughout his body. Do you remember that? Yeah. And he also talked about there was a Bigfoot sighting in the same area, too. But for the Native Americans, at least the ones that I've talked to, Apache's, Navajos,

huge. It's no big deal to them to talk about UFOs. Two weeks, three weeks ago, I got this email from a Native American investigator, UFO investigator. This was a second time in the past couple of years. I've got this type of sighting. We're talking, I don't want to say moth man, but it's a winged hybrid. And this was in New Mexico, second time. Not the same reservation, different ones. So there's something flying around out there too. That's scary. So, you know, doing UFO investigations and, you know, we deal in UFOs, paranormal, creatures, all kinds of stuff, you know, you got to watch your back because you really don't know, you know, what's out there. You know, and I'm not knocking, you know, ghost investigations because, I mean, you know, there's, you know, evil apparitions and demons and all kinds of stuff that they could knock you down off of stairs and stuff. But I don't want to be picked up in need.

That's a good point. I think what people have to keep in mind is, yeah, I mean, these shows, they have to be structured or scripted to an extent. I mean, that's television. But at the same time, like, there's no guarantee that you guys are 100% safe when you're going into these investigations. I mean, Daniel, running over a, you know, a mountain in the middle of the night, like anything could happen or something could attack you guys. There's predators everywhere near Skinwalker Ranch. So that's interesting. Another quick back story.

The very first time we were with the production crew, Daniel and I, because I'm a former reserve deputy for eight years, and Daniel at the time was a full-time peace officer. I don't really want to say what district he's with or anybody. So we both have law enforcement, Daniel, a lot more experience than me, because he was active. And so before we even started shooting the very first episode, it was really funny.

We put the law down. We basically stood in front of the whole production company. He says, okay, we know we have a director and a show running here, but if anything happens, you know, anything out of the noise, anything that could cause harm or put anybody's lives of jeopardy, and Dan's the one that's talking, says, we're the ones in charge. And it's so funny to see the director and a showrunner look at us like, wait, in there, we're in charge. No, you're not.

We're in charge. The reason we're in charge is because we're both carrying. Daniel, we're both carried concealed through every episode. I didn't in California because my concealed carry permit doesn't acknowledge California, but everybody else. So we're both carrying full time, right? Daniel could because he's full time. And so we said, because we can protect you. Now, there was a case in Missouri.

you mentioned gunshots. There was gunshots out there. Now, it was a couple of houses down. We were in the house, and there was some gunshots, but the gunshots were in the direction of where we were going to be shooting. And so Dan felt compelled to come in. He goes, you know, Dad, goes, look, we got to do a quick safety meeting real quick before we go there. I go, you're in charge of a guy, literally because he's big.

And so it says, look, this is a deal. When we're there and we hear shots fired, we're in charge. You don't listen to anybody but us, okay, because we're the only two that can protect you. And we'll have extractions for you. Of course, Dan says, you know, we'll tell you where you go. Dan, what he did, when we got their scope, the whole area out

and ahead of time and saw where the safe places would be for the production crew. Because not only as an investigator, do we have to protect herself, we have to protect the people on our team. We have to protect, you know, the production crew now, too. And so we were ready to rock and roll. And that happened in Tonapal. That happened in Utah also. So yeah, so when you do UFO investigations, especially a field investigator, I don't go anywhere without caring concealed.

I got a 12 gauge with slugs for any time I do Bigfoot investigations. It's not for Bigfoot. You'll just piss them off. It's for mountain lions and bears. You know, and I'm not going to shoot them basically unless they're attacking me. But I always carry either a 45 or 40, you know, a 380 or something, you know, that... Me too. It's like the Boy Scouts mantra.

Always be prepared. Heather, though, she'll just tell them a scary ghost story and he'll just walk. That'll do it. Well, so that's all the episodes of the show's guys. But we did have a couple listener questions. And these come from a very special guest who sent these to me. So Heather, I'm going to hit you with this one first. All right.

Let's see here. I guess this is for both of you. What were your guys' favorite song to sing with Dan while driving to the next location? Do you guys remember what this song was? Because I know what it is. It's the rubber band man song, isn't it? Ding, ding, ding, correct. Yeah.

Good job. Guess who that came from? How would be from Dan. I wonder. Daniel did reach out to me last night, and he sent in some questions. I'm sorry I didn't get him on here, but he's been commenting all night, keeping up with us in the commentary. So Daniel, thank you so much for joining us, man. Yeah, you know, and everybody's got to remember that Daniel is sitting at Fort Bliss, Texas. He's an MP for Colorado National Guard. And he was supposed to be deployed to Afghanistan this year. but because of the COVID crisis, he's been sitting for the past month, which my wife and I are really happy that he's not in Afghanistan. But, you know, he's sitting there and they're hunkered down too.

So, you know, they're going through the same thing that civilians are going through by not being able to, you know, be with other people, basically. But, you know, you got to give them, you know, good job, Dan. Absolutely. Yeah, Daniel. Thank you so much, man. And hey, if you're looking for something to do, just watch Alien Highway. I know it's available to this stream, so he can rewatch everything that you guys all did there and relive the memories.

There's another one for you, Heather. This other unknown person wants to know, what was your favorite location that you and Dan did an EBP session at? Do you remember this? Not necessarily in the show. Oh, no, I do remember this. I'm just trying to think of where it was. Oh my gosh, it was the Mitzpah Hotel. Boom.

You got it. I'm testing you guys. Yeah. Yep. Awesome. Anything come of that that you're willing to share with us? We actually had the thermal cam and we shined it towards the bathroom. And we did actually pick up a shadow, but we don't have the footage.

But we did catch something. You could see the shadow of something standing in the bathroom. Oh, interesting. That's a little creepy. All right. Well, I've got to some closing questions, you know, besides the show, just some stuff I wanted to personally ask you guys. Oh, I also want to add, Daniel did tell me what his most memorable, you know, investigation or moment of evidence was for him personally. And I'm sure viewers would like to know this. He said, to be honest, the Missouri Orbs were actually, that was it for him. When we interviewed Steve, I thought he was full of shit.

I've been to multiple interview and interrogation courses as a cop, and I didn't believe him one bit. But then when I see red orbs and literally chase after them and they disappear, unreal. Being a skeptic and seeing things I can't explain is what made it really exciting for me. So that's cool hearing that from probably the most skeptical person on the show. You know, and as his dad, it was really a big moment for me. I remember the first time that I saw a craft, first time I saw balls of light, first time I saw Bigfoot footprints in the snow. You know, that was a big game changer for me.

And to see Dan, to see Dan's face, and it was just a reflection of probably what my face looked like when I experienced, you know, those things for the first time too. And I thought, I am so sorry. Now you're ruined. Now you're just like the rest of us. You know, you got. You know. Yeah, you pulled them in. Oh, and it was so crazy there.

We had so much footage. I actually had footage on my own camera that I released on the, on my website. There was so much going on there. Dan literally chased after it. And there was a second time where the light was moving like this and and Heather saw it. And this was, we did an experiment. I didn't make it on TV either,

but we did another flashing light experiment. This time we used our headlaps that we have on our forehead, you know, they have a stroke function. So we just held them and strobed it and it turned off the strobe to see if anything. And then it showed up, this lights going, brum, brum, boom, boom, just like a few minutes later.

So that experiment worked. And I have it on camera. And Heather's going, I'm yelling at Heather. I go, Heather, can you see it out? And Heather goes, I can see it. And then he goes, Dad takes off running for it. I remember, too.

I saw the first light and I didn't say anything. It was like right mid-tree line level. I didn't say anything because I was like, what the heck did I just see? And then the second one, we all see it. And then the third one is just like, I was really surprised that didn't make the episode. Like I said, there was so much stuff. And then my sister was there when she was there before, you know, when the investigation came to me and shot, you know, she was using, if anybody out there wants a really good camera, the psionics camera is a really good made by Aurora.

Not that I'm pitching it, but they just came out with a new Aurora Pro, I spent it in February and sometime this month or, you know, in May I'll get it. But it's a really great night vision camera that uses a lot of starlight. And we were catching some really, really good stuff. She sent me something just before we showed up that these lights were underwater. And we're watching. It's just crazy. And then I just talked to her a month or so ago and there's still stuff going on there.

So that would be definitely, if we had a second season, you know, that would definitely be a place we want to go back to because, oh, there was a neighbor down the street that had security cameras. That didn't make it on the show either. You can see this one come down to the barn and go around the barn. They take off. That's amazing to me. I mean, you guys, it's like you had too much that couldn't,

they couldn't put it all in the show, whereas most shows have the complete opposite, where they are to the point where clearly they're either, fabricating things or making something out to be way more than it is. But I'll add this one listener question here. Heather, Kurt was at East Setti Ranch a month before you in 2008. Anything interesting happened to you when you were there? This is a really trippy place. Oh, my gosh. This is one place I've been wanting to go back to. I've been there twice.

And each time I was there, I had insane experiences. But I mean, every night you would see these lights. and it's really incredible when you have, we had software there that was a satellite tracking program, so we could see what satellites were going where in what direction. But we would see these lights that would just cruise across the sky really slow. Then they would stop. We would shine these high-powered military flashlights at them.

Whatever it was would blink back to us, keep on cruising through the sky, and then just zoom off and disappear. And we saw this multiple times. And I mean, to this day, I tell everybody that they have to go there and experience it. Yeah, yeah. I've been meaning to get out there.

And, I mean, again, it's just one of these places where there's so much unexplained high strangeness occurring that you can't deny it. So, yeah, yeah. I definitely suggest people. That was going to be in our second season, too. Oh, right. We should just do it crazy event. Right, we'll just do it and put it on YouTube.

There you go. Yeah. You beat me to it, man. That's going to be my next question for you guys. I mean, if given the opportunity to get back out there, go back on the alien highway, what would you want to investigate? Does anything really stick out to you, something that you really feel you could bring, you know, break the lid wide open on? Well, the thing with the first season of Alien Highway, and I think what worked with what we captured is this were,

these were cases that were happening now. And, you know, I've been in business long enough that, you know, I've got contacts all over, at least the western side of U.S. And so I was hitting all my contacts up before the, you know, while we were trying to figure out what to do and saying, what's hot right now, what's hot right now. I don't want to investigate something weren't. I want to capture something real time. And we were so lucky.

And even, you know, even in the California one, that, the episodes that were lined up were episodes where steps happening now. So to be able to answer that question, I can only answer it at the time if we got a second season because I'd be out there putting the fillers and finding out what's happening because who knows where it could be? I know Missouri's hot right now. I know a part of Colorado, Utah, border's hot right now.

Upper northern Colorado's hot right now. Kansas, I know a place in Kansas that's hot. I mean, you know, there's places right now where I know that it's only because of my website, people emailing me, they'll see Alien Highway or they'll see, gosh, even unexplained files of season two. I was on season one and two, but very briefly, I've met on TV as much as Heather. I'm not that experience. But when they see that, they Google or search me and they come to my website, and I answer every email because if they took the time to email me, I'm going to take the time I answer them. And it's sightings.

And we've got, oh, my gosh. Do you know, Heather, we have at least two seasons, two more seasons worth of investigations we can do. Yeah. On the siting reports that came in from after the show. And that makes a production company. And I've got probably at least 20 or 25 that I saved that are really good ones just, you know, here.

I have a collection too. It's just, it's crazy. I mean, if, you know, anyway. Getting their phenomena would be really great because I know their government kind of backs it up. So they're real serious about it. So those are three that stick out to me. To wrap this up, guys. I'd love to get your opinion on this. I have a lot of younger followers, viewers, listeners to my show and a lot of younger people getting involved in this field of research, UFOs, which is super exciting.

You know, I used to be considered one of the younger people, and I'm in my mid-30s or something. I won't go there. But I was considered young at one point, and now I'm seeing like teenagers getting involved with this, which is awesome. So I guess my question to kind of wrap this up would be, Chuck, we'll start with you. What should younger people do when they get involved with this topic? Like there's so much disinformation, misinformation, misinformation, hoaxes, this, that, this, that. The ridicule factor even of saying don't look into that stuff or you're crazy. What would you tell a young person who's just getting interested in the UFO topic?

Where should they turn? What should they do? Well, I kind of like was there. So just based on my experience, I started out by researching and reading. I have communion. So it depends first. you have to pick a topic, pick what you want first. What do you want to investigate and then start researching material on that and find out

if there's any UFO groups nearby. When this COVID goes away, then you can go to some UFO meetings. When you want to get to a point where you want to be an investigator, there's books out there on how to be an investigator, I'm former Mufon. I'm not with them anymore, but Mufon actually has an investigation. investigator program and you can go to just Mufon MUFON and you can you can download we have to purchase it their investigator manual I think I wrote the portion on animal meditations and stuff for them but it's an investigator manual it's really good

it's updated and even if you don't become a field investigator for Mufon you have the tools to do it and then decide what you want to do where you want to go start small because I tell you, you know, this may not be what you want to do. It's engulfed my life since as long as I can remember. I've been involved in euphology since elementary school. And, you know, luckily my wife just goes with it. I know that feeling, yeah. Pick a topic and go with, you know, and take step by steps.

And then email people like me, ask questions. You know, that's why I'm here. Email my website. And I get emails all the time from people asking me, how do I become an investigator? And I tell them exactly what I just told you. And I say, if you have any questions, I even try and find groups in their area. You know, I try, I'll help where I can. Right now it's tough, but, you know.

Yeah. Yeah. Everything's tough. I think a good, a good quote that one of our people, Stanman, said, was, we're locked down, UFOs aren't, which is a really important thing to remember. The work continues. So Heather, what about you? What advice would you give younger people getting involved in?

Either paranormal, UFOs, everything in between. What do you think? I mean, I would definitely say the way I started out was I went out into the field. I took my recorder and my video camera and my Ouija board. And I went right out to where I wasn't supposed to be. Well, don't do that. But you know what I mean? Like go to a place, you know, you can start investigating.

And just kind of see what evidence you can get. You know, I started reading books by Ed and Lorraine Warren, you know, the leading researchers, you know, with ghosts, they've been doing, you know, research for decades. So I really kind of dove into all of their research, which is really important in the field. But just reading and exploring different cases so that when you finally go out there, you can pick up the correlations between different kinds of activity and why it might be happening. I think that's really key is knowing your cases and researching. take very good notes and have lots of little notebooks like I do. Awesome. Yeah, you're stickler for the notebooks, which I love, and we need that. Guys, this has been amazing. I thought this is going to be like an hour. Of course, we're going on almost two and a half.

I don't know what I was thinking, but I have to thank you both for giving me so much of your time tonight and for all the listeners and viewers sticking with us, asking questions. I'm trying to get used to getting in as much as I can with making it more interactive with people. But before we go, both of you, Heather, where can we find everything you're doing? Yeah, give it to us. Give us them socials. I just launched my website, which is heather tatty.com.

That's pretty exciting. You can find me on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook. It's all under Classic Tad. That's my handle. Cool. How about you, check? Just UFO nut. com or

yeah, just, you know, because if you search Chuck Zucowski, you'll misspell my last name. So I still do. I remember UFO Nut, you know, it's an LLC and it's been trademarked this year. So it's going to be around for a while. Cool. Well, guys, it was so refreshing to revisit

the alien highway. I was such a big fan. I really hope that either travel, discovery, or any of these networks, re-examine this show and see how important it is to actual research and getting this topic out to the mainstream. So I got to thank you both for doing this. And, yeah, I will keep looking up to see what's up there. And, you know, keep looking within two, I guess.

That's me trying to be, you know, metaphorical and philosophical at the end of my thing there. But no, Chuck. And your viewers, too. And so all the viewers out there, by all means, email travel channel. Let them know that one alien highway back or Discovery because Discovery owns travel. That is a very good point. Social networks are extremely powerful. So if you guys do want to see Heather and Chuck back out there again and Daniel, I'm sure he'll come back.

They're not that last fan standing, right? Exactly, exactly. tweet to travel channel hit them up wherever you can let's get this thing back on the air because I want to get down on that highway with you guys as well so once again Chuck Heather thank you so much for joining me

on somewhere in the skies thank you very much thank you for now it's Kelly Clarkson with Wayfair ever order furniture online and wonder what if like what if it doesn't hold up that sofa was four days old you should have ordered from Wayfair with Wayfair there's no what if

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