Somewhere in the Skies - Roswell Debris IS Anomalous (w/ Chuck Zukowski)

Episode Date: August 14, 2023

On episode 330 of SOMEWHERE IN THE SKIES, we are joined by return guest, Chuck Zukowski. Zukowski was the subject of the NY Times Best-Selling book, The 37th Parallel: The Secret Truth Behind America's UFO Highway. He also has recently joined geologist, Frank Kimbler, on several expeditions to the Roswell UFO crash site. After a meticulous and diligent search, they discovered a handful of new metal fragments that have been tested at metallurgy labs in both Socorro, NM and Denver, CO. After cross-referencing the outcome of these tests, Zukowski shares the results for the very first time here on Somewhere in the Skies. And those results may surprise you!  Follow Chuck Zukowski's work at: https://www.ufonut.com/  Join us at ANOMACON 2023: www.anomacon.com Order Ryan’s new book: https://a.co/d/4KNQnM4 Website: www.somewhereintheskies.com YouTube Channel: CLICK HERE Book your Cameo video with Ryan at: https://bit.ly/3kwz3DO Official Store: CLICK HERE Buy Somewhere in the Skies coffee: https://bit.ly/3rmXuap Order Ryan’s older book: https://amzn.to/3PmydYC Email Ryan directly at: [e-mail] Tik Tok: https://www.tiktok.com/@ryansprague51 Twitter: @SomewhereSkies Instagram: @SomewhereSkiesPod Read Ryan’s Articles by CLICKING HERE Opening Theme Song, "Ephemeral Reign" by Per Kiilstofte Copyright © 2023 Ryan Sprague. All rights reserved. Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/somewhere-in-the-skies. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Guys, we are here right now with one of the gentlemen who found the metal alloys out in the Roswell Desert at the famed crash site. We have with us once again returning guest Chuck Sikowsky. Chuck, welcome back to Somewhere in the Skies. Hi, thank you for having me back. This is pretty exciting, right? Yeah. Yeah. It's something that I've been doing for years and years and years.

You know, one of the first investigations I was doing was on Roswell, gosh, 35 years ago. And I was one of the lucky people that actually met and became friends with Glenn Dennis, who was the mortician and Walter Hopped. And I used to go by the museum so many times. I live in California. So every time I, you know, I took the family on vacation. It was always routed around Roswell.

I'd go say hi to the guys. And they got to the point where, you know, they were comfortable seeing me. They knew who I was. And so they started feeding me more and more information. And it was Glenn Dennis who actually gave me the GPS coordiners to the debris site. So it was like one of the guys from 1947, rather than getting it from another investigator.

I got it right from, you know, the proverbial horse's mouth. and then a lot of the stuff that, you know, when I interviewed him that I learned is pretty cool stuff. And some of it was published and some of it wasn't. But it's cool because, you know, he would talk to me as a friend, you know, rather than an investigator. So we got down to the meat of things a few times. A lot of fun. Yeah, I know. And of course, Roswell is that case.

You know, so many UFO researchers sort of hang their heart. had on it, whereas more skeptical people will say, what's their left to discover about the oldest UFO case out there? And then, lo and behold, you, Frank Kimbler, who we'll get to as well, have developments in the story, not only developments, I would say more evidence than anyone has ever been able to actually find that has anything to do with the Roswell incident. So I guess let's kind of get to the meat of it. What brought you out to the crash site with the geologist Frank Kimber, who I've also had the pleasure of going out there and looking for stuff.

I never found anything. So I'm extremely envious of the both of you. But yeah, can you sort of run us through the few times you have been out there with Frank and kind of walk us through what some of those discoveries might have been if you don't mind? Well, it was interesting because I think the very first time I was out of the debris site was around 2000. And I had a metal detector out there and I was, you know, looking for, you know, anything. And then 2002, I did a TV show with the sci-fi channel. And we did an archaeology dig out there.

and after they were done shooting the TV show, I convinced the archaeologist to let me and my sister come out one day later after the production crew left and do our own dig. I didn't like what they were doing. They were digging into the drastic period. I only wanted to dig back to 1947. So we did strip digs. And in 2002, my sister and I actually found a piece of debris.

And then I had it analyzed here in Colorado on an SCM scanning electron and microscope, and it was an aluminum alloy. We did a press release a year later, and lo and behold, we did a press release on it, and we were asking for a lab to pick it up. So if you do more analysis on it, and lo and behold, it was Bass, Bigelow Aerospace. Now, at the time back then, I didn't realize that Bigelow was actually working for the Pentagon. We learned that back in 2017, years later, that he was under contract with the Pentagon looking for UFO materials and investigating UFO sites.

So it was kind of exciting later to find out that when he was analyzing the piece that we found in 2002, it was probably funded by the Pentagon. So they know a little more about me than I kind of want them to know about me. What happened to those pieces, Chuck? Were they still in possession of them? Yeah, what happened was the Maxwell Museum in New Mexico's had archived it. And it took me about three months to find it. And then I had to write a proposal up to the board of directors to be able to release it.

So big, a little aerospace would be able to analyze it. But I threw a caveat in there. I said, okay, we're not going to give them the whole piece. We're going to cut a piece off and send them a piece of it because, you know, this stuff you never know. So Dr. Bill Doman was able to cut a piece, and we sent that piece to Bigelow. Within one week, I got an email back saying that it was an unknown polymer. I swear, okay, this is what the email said. It's posted on my website to go way, way back and look and search, you know, Roswell, debris.

And I actually have a clip of it. But it said some, you know, it said that of that, it's like really nothing, but it's still an unknown polymer based on the catalog polymers that we have in the lab. And right there was a red flag for me stating that, okay, it's not common. Because if it was a common polymer, then, you know, obviously we would have been able to identify it. And then I said, so what's next?

And they said, isotop analysis. And I said, oh, my gosh, okay, isotop analysis. Let's see if this thing's even from this planet. And that was the last I heard of Bigelor. And I tried numerous times to get a hold of them. And it was about a year later, I finally got an email back saying, oh, it was nothing, we sent the piece back. Well, I can't guarantee what they sent back to, you know,

the museum was the actual piece, but it didn't matter me because I, you know, I know that we have an actual piece still, you know, still archives there. Smart, yeah, yeah, yeah. And all that stuff, you know, for anybody wants to know, Ben Messerick had wrote a book called The 37th Parallel, and it's all in that book. You can find it now on Amazon, use copies. for two, three dollars.

But it kind of talks all about that. And at the very end of the book, I had speculated that, you know, Bigelow was a big part of this. And at the very end of the book, there's a lot of stuff that's retracted, you know, black lines going through here and there. In other words, I was insinuating that, you know, Bigelow was part.

Now, you've got to understand this was still before it came out in 2017 that he was part of it. You know, he's a billionaire. error. I'm a hundred error. I have a couple hundred dollars. And, you know, there's no way I can compete with, you know, all the money he's got in his attorneys. So, you know, it was kind of like on a DL, kind of poking fun, but not actually saying that I think he was involved in it. So that kind of started back in 2002. Now since then, you know, I've done a couple of other archaeology digs there, but the issue is, is, you know, when we're doing digs, we have these, these big screens that are like

four by four screens on two by fours. As you dig, you kind of sift through the dirt, and we're looking for pieces of metal. Well, the stuff that we're finding now is really, really tiny and would have slipped through the pieces of metal, we would have missed it. And because you're doing this out in the middle of the desert, and it's windy, and it's sunny.

It's 100, you know, 100, 105 sometimes if it's during the summertime. So recently, beginning of June, you know, went out to the site, And the whole purpose for that was for me to get some drone footage and do a little bit of digging. Or not digging. Just, I meant digging as in digging around, but not actual archaeology digging. Just using a metal detector to see if we'd find anything. And that material I was going to use for the Roswell Festival that I was going to like, I'm lecturing or a lecture to add in July. And so I had my metal detector and then Frank had his metal detector.

and we're just kind of like sweeping around out there. And Frank started getting hits. My metal detector, I wasn't. And so I kind of dropped that and started watching Frank. Now, I have to tell you this. This is really exciting stuff. Okay. So I'm going to go ahead.

Well, I was out there with a person. I took another person out there that was shooting a little documentary for his website. And I had asked Frank if you wanted to go out to the website, or I'm sorry, to the debris site, you know, with me. And, of course, he said, you know, I was going to ask you if I could go. So he was pretty excited. And I've been dealing with Frank for a few years, you know, looking at some of the stuff that he had found and trying to figure out where it came from,

especially the buttons and all kinds of cool stuff. So we're out there. and see if I can remember exactly what was going on. Okay, so we're out there with a, I'll just mention his name because he's a cool guy, L.A. Marzula. So I was out there with L.A. Marzula, and he had his cameraman, he had his audio guy, and he was interviewing Frank there, and I'm kind of like, you know, watching the whole interview. And then the cameraman says, hey, hey, something happened.

I didn't catch the last 30 seconds of this, you know, of this interview. I don't know what's going on the camera. let me go figure it out. And at that time, the audio guy goes, yeah, you know what, my battery died. And it was charged earlier. And so it says, I'm going to go back to my truck because I took them all out there in my truck. And I looked over at Frank, and Frank looks at me going, okay, something's going on out here. Because as you're from investigators, there's been a lot of times when we've been in active places where there's a high electrical magnetic field and your batteries go out.

And, you know, there's all kinds of interesting things mucks with your, you know, your technology. So he looked at me, says, hey, Chuck, did you bring your EMF meter? And I said, yeah, it's in my kit. So we brought it out. And Frank was walking with the EMF meter. And I'm going, okay, well, I'm not picking up any. Oh, actually, at that time, we weren't metal detecting. And so I said, I'm going to get my drone set up so I can film him, you know, doing EMF sweeps. So I'm going to use that, you know, in my conference, my lecture in July. And he comes back, goes, I'm going to get my mental detector. I go, what's up? Because while as I'm walking, it's like a, like waves. So as I walked, there was a wave of EMF, and it would spike a little bit, and you walk it and spike

again. So he goes, I'm going to grab my melody detector and check this area. I said, great. So I grabbed my drone, and I put my drone, and my drone's in a kit. So I'm putting the props on and getting it ready. And I'm right there where Frank is, mental detecting, because I don't want to miss anything. If I hear a tone on this mental detector, you know, I want to be there to see it. But when I got my drone set up and it powered up, it wouldn't lift off. It said battery air, battery air. I'm going, there's nothing wrong. I just charged this.

Battery air. And then so I pushed the battery back in, took it out back in, you know, reset it. Reset my app. And then it said, take off air. I'm like, okay, what's going on? And I was getting frustrated because I thought it was something I was doing wrong. So I just took the drone back to where my truck was. I said, well, I'm going to try it one more time.

And then everything worked fine. And I dawned, I mean, oh, my gosh, that was a high EMF area that, you know, that we had issues with a camera and the audio guy. And now the drone went off. So I got the drone up, and I was shooting some shots. And then at that time, Frank was using his metal detector, was getting hits. After I finished my drone shooting, I grabbed my metal detector, and I went out there, too, and I wasn't getting anything. but he was picking up hits. So he found a couple of pieces of material.

And that kind of started this whole thing of, you know, analyzing. He found one piece. And then he says, the next piece I'm going to give to you. And, you know, I'll test it here. New Mexico. You can test yours in Colorado. And we'll do two tests, two separate labs, two separate states, and see if we get the same results. And that's what you kind of want to do.

Because if you use one. lab and their instruments are not calibrated properly or they have older software or whatever, you know, you never know if you're going to get, you know, if the results you're getting are going to be the results that anybody was getting, right? So this was the best way of doing it. And that's when we came up with a little bit of Maloy. Now, we went back again towards the end of June right before the, you know, the Roswell Festival. And this time, I was a little smarter. So the metal detector that I had originally was designed to look for coins and stuff like that. A franc metal detector is a fisher and it was designed to look for gold.

And so the frequencies are different when you're looking for specific metals. He was getting hits. I wasn't getting anything. So within the time frame of the beginning of June to the end of June, I got on eBay and I found a new Fisher Gold Bug Pro metal detector that's designed just to look for gold nuggets. We went back out there end of June and within 20 minutes I got a hit with this new metal detector.

So now it does me now that you need a gold hunting metal detector to look for this anonymous, you know, material. Now you have to understand that in the past 20 years, we've been out there with metal detectors and got nothing. And then at one point, even I think Move on it had shot a show or something out there and they had a slew of people out there

with the metal detectors. But as it turns out, I think, that they were using the wrong detectors because depending on the detector, you know, depends on what you're looking for. The frequencies are a little bit different, adjusting the ground, the whole bit's a little different. But it seems like the fish are, you know,

a gold hunting. metal detector seems to also be a Roswell, hunting metal detector, and it worked really, really well. So when we were out there at the end of June, we found probably a good, see, four, eight, nine, about ten pieces. Now, what's interesting about these pieces is it's some we found on the ground closer to the surface and some was, you know, six or so inches in the ground. some of it was shiny, some of it had some patina on it. And depending on which ones we have analyzed,

the ones that had some patina, some dark coloring in it, were thrown into like a 6,000 series. Frank can explain this more because he's a geologist and he's who I look to, you know, to really explain, you know, the science behind it. You know, my background is microchip design. So I know that aluminum alloys is using microchip. and it's very conducive of electricity.

So we use it all the time in designing microchips. It's one of the higher metals that we use as power buses in microchip design. It's a little higher in resistance, but it's a great conductive of electricity. So current flows really easy through that. So this is stuff that technology now uses in microchip design, because, you know, it's, like I said, you can pump current through it. So it's interesting, though. So we have two different types of metals in this area.

It's kind of confusing why we have it. But the 6,000, when we tested it not only on the X-ray spectrometer or the SCM, the scanning electron microscope, we're getting these results that it's falling into like an unknown polymer. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. It's falling into an unknown aluminum alloy. Now, what I mean by unknown aluminum alloy, the polymer was the first one in 2002. These were falling into an unknown aluminum alloy.

Now, it's not unknown to the point where it couldn't be created here. It's unknown to the fact that it hasn't been cataloged as a commercial alloy. You know, so you go through the thousands of alloys that have been cataloged that people are, you know, the industry is using. And this one falls into a 6,000 a series, but it hasn't been cataloged. And that's another red flag. Well, why? I'm sorry, I get out excited about this because I'm kind of going through it all my head. Yeah, I know.

I mean, just last week, you know, I had the SCM done over here in Denver and a couple days before that. Frank had his done over. And all of a sudden we're getting the same results. Oh, my God. This is ridiculous. You know, this is, we're getting, we're getting this aluminum alloy that is not, you know, registered or cataloged in any of the alloys that, you know, we have right now. So what does that mean?

Okay. Could it be an alloy that, you know, was with some top secret project at one point that never, you know, or never or still isn't? going to be cataloged, you know, for commercial use or is it something else? You know, it's really hard to say what's going on? And then what about the other alloys we're getting out there? The stuff that's very similar to aluminum cans, we're getting that too. But when I took the first piece to the lab, you know, out here in Denver that we had found, you know, the beginning of June, I took it to Colorado metallurgical company. And their expertise is, you know, the beginning of June, I took it to Colorado metallurgical company.

and their expertise is aluminum alloys. And this guy, the general manager there, Sean, is looking at this under microscope. And he said, I can tell you something right now that if I'm looking at a piece of an alloy for customer mine who's using it for whatever project, I would tell him this was a fail. I said, well, what do you mean by a fail? He says, whatever this was used in, experienced extreme trauma. He said, explosive in nature. That's what he said. And he says, when you get right down to 500 microns or so, this thing, it experienced something explosive that just destroyed it into such tiny little pieces.

And I haven't seen that before. So he said, whatever it is, he was pretty excited. Whatever this metal was used for, exploded. Like a crash, right? like an impact. There you go. You know, and so that's another one of these aha moments where, okay, now we're finding evidence. Now, Frank and I can't say that this is extraterrestrial.

We can't say that because, you know, if these are baby steps, this is, you know, this is the beginning of going through all the steps of trying to identify this material. So far, we have a couple different materials. This is really good, though, because we have material that we kind of can identify, and then we have some material that we can't really identify. So now we can use those two materials as comparison, you know, in all our, you know, lab analysis to, okay, try to figure out what the anomalous metal is. Because when you talk to people, I go, well, there could be a little one who can.

Well, guess what? We've kind of found that or something similar to that. But then now we found something completely different. So we can compare the two. So you can't say this is a little one can't because we can say this resembles it, but this doesn't. So we can compare the two. So that kind of throws the skeptics out the door at that point when they're saying it's something that's common. We found some common stuff.

And we found even more common stuff out there actually pieces of can and some other things. Let me say I can find this real quick. Yeah. And even when you find, you know, little pieces like this, which are just pieces of rusted can, you know, can tops and stuff. So we can find stuff out there that we can absolutely identify. But it's the pieces that we can identify that's making this really, really excited. And so what's next? Well, you know, obviously more testing.

you know, we want to, you know, eventually you jump into isotopal analysis to see if it's from this planet. The issue with that, though, is it's based on technology of how the piece was put together. Now, pretty much if you look at the periodic table, everything on the periodic table is what we've picked up in space so far. there's some little microscopic type balls that that they found recently in the ocean that who you know the scientists who found who found is saying that could point to extraterrestrial

we may know more about that in a couple of weeks so we're still learning there could be materials and you know coming from meteorites or something from outer space that may not fall into our periodic table but so far everything on a peeriotic back table, you know, is from space. So the metals themselves are, could be common to other planets, but it's how it's put together technology-wise and some other things that would make it unique of whether or not we would have the technology to do that here. But, you know, if isotope analysis

comes back and says, this is unidentifiable, then we've nailed it. Then we have something completely unusual anomalous and really exciting. And so like I said, it seems like every step we take, we're getting closer and closer to, you know, hopefully, you know, of finding something that's completely unknown, you know, material-wise, not material-wise, but, you know, how it was technology, how it was put together. And, but still at that point,

we can't say it's extraterrestrial, because it could still be something that could be, you know, some top secret, you know, project, something, you know, because I work in a microchip industry. So I've been involved in a few military programs where I've signed non-disclosures and, you know, now it's just a technology, you know, that I worked on and not the actual material. so I really don't know too much about the materials used in it. But if you're looking for something, you're looking for an answer of what this stuff is, and you're pointing to like current technology, you can't do that because we found it under six inches of dirt, which means it was a few decades ago. I was just going to ask that, Chuck.

You know, what is a 6,000 series alloy? Like you mentioned, that could be part of some, let's say, aerospace manufacturer. What is it doing under the ground if that was the surface level like three, four decades ago? That makes no sense. And you're absolutely right. And so it's really easy for people to say, well, you know, we can do that now. You know, fine, but explain why it was under six inches of dirt at the middle of the New Mexico desert. And we found it there.

Okay. Now, the aluminum canned stuff that's very similar in 3,000 series, that wasn't registered until the 60s. Okay. So it's not something very recent either. And we found that. Now, for all your viewers out there, if you know who Lieutenant Colonel Philip Corso is, You know, the day after Roswell book, he wrote that book before he passed away. He said, I can't remember, I hope I get this right.

I think he was working for General Trudeau on reverse engineering Roswell Debris. Now, you have to understand, this is all stuff. You know, as investigators read, I've actually read some of the transcripts from Philip Corso when he was interviewed by Peola Harris. and he seems very, very, very credible. As a military individual, he was very, very credible, and the Army never really discredited him after the book came up. But here he says, we got this material from Roswell, and I got it, and I'm working for the Foreign Technology Department

and reverse engineering, and we're going to take this material, and we're going to push it into industries here in the U.S. I have government contracts, and let's see if we can reverse engineers, and use it as a, you know, in our technology. And that's what they do. And companies do it too. Other companies, they'll take a competitor company piece of technology, and they'll reverse engineer trying to figure out why these guys are,

their products working in this. There is it. Right. Nothing new. And we've been doing it for years and years. So if he's right and some of this metal was found in 47, and was folded into our industry, then it kind of makes sense

that if we're finding some 3,000 series, that could be closer to the room can, but it wasn't registered until 60s, mid or mid-60s, I think it was. I think Frank was saying, and you can ask Frank about that, then that would make sense. But still, why are we finding it there?

And why is it kind of still resembling, you know, the pieces of material that experienced, you know, experienced trauma, a very explosive in nature, but it's confusing. And then there's also the thought that maybe it was seated to throw integrators off. I mean, so you kind of have to think about all different types of possibilities why we're finding this. You know, one thought is whatever, whatever exploded, whatever crashed there, had two different

types or multiple types of alloys, which makes sense, you know, associated with it, and we're finding piece of pieces now. Why are we finding now? Because of metal detectors, the technology now is way better than it was back in 2000, way better than it was in 1947. The metal detectors back then were used to look for mines, big pieces of metal, that little tiny fragments, right? And the Fisher Goldberg Pro that I bought has only been out for a couple of years, And one of the specifications was that they altered the frequency a little bit to find gold. So the metal detectors are getting better and better and better. Technology is getting better and better.

And now we're hitting the jackpot when we go back to the briefback, so when people say, well, why did you find it then? Technology is better now. Yeah. And it'll be better in five years. And who knows we're going to find in five years? But right now, with current technology, we're finding stuff. Now, it's not easy.

Okay, so Frank, the last time Frank and I were out there, we were both using Fisher metal detectors, and we were out there a good four or five hours. So it takes a bit, you know, to look for this, and it's painstaking and, you know, swinging it back and forth real slow, and you get hiss, you got to dig into the hard ground and, and sift through it with your fingers because the pieces are so small. it's easy, very easy to miss this stuff. So you really got to be patient, which is tough for me because I'm not that patient. Thank you, teaching me, you know, patience.

They go, yeah, how long does that take? Yeah. To learn patient. Exactly. I will wait as long as I have to to find an interstellar piece of a spacecraft, Chuck. I'll tell you that much. Two last questions for you, actually. I guess the, I want to go back to that idea of,

seating for just a moment. So that would technically mean someone actually planted, like, pieces there for what purpose or motivation do you feel? Have you ever seen something that you just can't explain? Something paranormal, perhaps? The mystery of that event marinerates in our minds and fuels our interest into the unexplained. If you're intrigued by these mysteries of the world, from ghosts and haunted locations, UFOs and aliens, cryptids and legends, perhaps the answers you seek lie within our domain. Parabox explores these topics with unique paranormal mystery t-shirts.

Each month you will receive a new paranormal soft-style t-shirt. and content card about that month's theme. The shirt and card will contain clues to find a hidden password. Enter the correct password to reveal our monthly challenge. Solve the puzzle and be entered into our drawing for free merchandise. Soft style t-shirts, paranormal themes, puzzling challenges. Parabox Monthly.com. let's say it was, I'll just throw it out there, let's say it was a flying sauce, a UFO.

I mean, it was extraterrestrial technology. And of course, you know, as investigators, I've been doing this long enough that, you know, a lot of my stuff is being monitored, a lot of stuff that goes public is being monitored, and they're watching this, and they're going, okay, if these guys actually find pieces out there that point back to the 1947 crash, maybe we should kind of throw them. them off and how they can throw us off as if, as if, you know, they, they, whoever they is, you know, create these, you know, little pieces of known alloys or something and throw that out there under the thought that we find those and say, hey, it's extraterrestrial.

And they go, no, it's not because it's this, you know. But they don't know me and Frank because me and Frank or Frank and I. we don't do that. All we say is, look, you know, we're going to analyze this stuff. We don't, we're not very quick to judge. We don't, you know, we just don't assume it's all, you know, because we're both analytical thinking. So everything step by step by step to step to see what this stuff is.

Hey, look, some of it is an anomalous alloy in the 6,000 series. Some of it is very similar to the 3,000 series. Now we can compare the two. and that kind of messes up if it was seated that we're not that ignorant, that, you know, or stupid that we would just look up in the sky and say, that's a UFO when it's really, you know, Mars or Jupiter or something, you know, or the ISS going by. I mean, you have to really know what you're looking at and know what you're doing,

you know, to make these extraordinary claims. If you're going to make an extraordinary claim, you, Damo Berry, have extraordinary evidence to back up. it up or you're going to get you know chewed up by you know the skeptics bunkers and the media too so frank and i are being very very careful with this and as i as we're releasing this releasing it and we're showing the data so people can look at the data and say i can then you know and it finds at this point i haven't had anybody since the first time i started releasing this you know come out and say oh i can identify exactly here's the you know here's the the sheet the alloy sheet that says

that's what it's that, you know, and okay. But, you know, if we were trying to hide something, we wouldn't put the data out there for damn stuff, you know. So, you know, we put it out there saying, look, guys, this is what we're finding. Here's the data, you know, you tell me. Yeah. So, yeah. Sorry, Chuck.

I'm just like, the gravity of these results really hit me when you put out this post recently of this 6,000 L. I mean, this comes back highly anomalous. Like you guys mentioned, there was a high level of barium found as well. I don't think people realize like how important this discovery could actually be and what could happen after this in terms of more testing. It's crazy. It's really funny too because the first piece I had tested and I didn't post it because I didn't say that it had barium in it.

and we were thinking, what the hell is burying? There must be an issue. And we're poking on. But you see, you know, when you're, when you do an x-ray spectrometer or SCM, you're looking at a very, very small, small piece of a large, you know, very tiny.

And I mean, if you look at the picture on my website where it shows an extreme close-up and it looks like you're looking inside a cavern, you'll see a little scale right. there. It says, I think does it say five microns or something? It's, it's really crazy. Let me just scroll down there and see that one piece. But let's see. I think, yeah, so it says five microns. If you go to my website, UFO nut.com, you'll see that image there. And so it almost looks like you're looking. Yeah, that's it right there. So on the lower right hand corner, you'll see five microns. So five microns. I explained it, you know, what a, what a microns.

micron is, then it's one times 10 to the minus six. And this is microchip size structures is what we're looking at right here. And so when you get down and you're poking around, you may pick up a little bit of barrier. You may not be. See, we were using an x-ray spectrometer. So we were getting down to this level when I first had a test it, you know, the piece in the beginning of June. Now, if you look at the color pictures to the right there, that whole speckled pattern, each color now, this is using an SCM scanning electron microscope. And this particular one, what it does is it shows you on the elements, you know, how that element is scattered within the metal.

And if you see blotches like with silicon, or I'm sorry, silicon, there's two different types. ones on microchips and ones in people's bodies. You might see splotches. And that could just mean it just could be a contaminated metal with silicon from being out in the middle of desert over decades. But if you see speckled pattern like you're seeing here, that means it's part of the metal itself as part of the alloy itself. And when you're looking at that end,

so we did get barium hits from the first metal. I thought, okay, maybe the x-ray spectrometer was picking up something unusual, maybe not. And I was focusing more on the aluminum alloys. But Frank, being the smarter of the two when it comes to geology, focused on that and saw that that was the case. Next time, we'll look for barium more. Yeah. Well. I mean, we're learning with this.

Exactly. You're learning as you go, and I think that's what's most important. And, you know, I can be fully transparent. I am working with an individual and with Frank on hopefully assisting you guys and getting those isotopic tests done that's in motion right now. I can say that. There's communication happening where hopefully we can get more tests, whatever we can do in the public research.

community to help you guys. I mean, you did the hard part. You guys discovered these. You did the initial testing. Let the rest of us take some of that weight off your shoulders now. But you get all the credit. You get all the credit, Chuck, when this does come back extraterrestrial. Well, the thing is, I mean, we're the initiators. Yes, exactly. By opening it to the public and releasing all our information. Now, if anybody's ever been to my website in the past, any time I do it, an investigation, I throw it all out there. Because, you know, I don't hide anything. Well, I mean, there's certain things I can't say because it may be military-oriented

and I don't want to, you know, muck with crossing that, you know, proverbial line or anything. But when it comes to the olfology, I throw everything out there and I throw it out there for people to look at themselves and make their own decisions. Now, just, you know, I see things my way. I try and I have tons and tons of books behind me and more books and boxes. And I'll use some of those books as reference, but I don't treat it as a Bible because a lot of those investigators that are writing these books, well, every one of those investigators have never found proof of an extraterrestrial technology. It's all speculation. So you have to be very, very careful if you're an investigator.

You don't want to follow someone else's investigators or investigations because they haven't found anything yet. They may have some good information, but you've got to take your own. road and you got to do it yourself. And you may pick up information here and there. You want to try a couple of different things. I've done with cattle mutilations. And I found that stuff that I was doing on my own, actually I was getting better results. And so even people out there now that are following this, you can pick up some of the

information from me. We throw it out there. And if you take your own little route, that's good too, because you may come up with something that we miss. You know, we only know what we know. And if you ever listen to anybody on anybody's podcast, it says, well, that guy's wrong. I know that. No, you know.

You just think you know. I just think I know. Nobody knows everything. There's an idiot. Anyway, scientists out there recently. I don't want to mention his name, but I know everything and there's no extra trestles. And this is, you know, he's just a physicist. And everybody knows who this guy is.

But he only knows what he knows. And he's got these glasses on. I think we all know who you're talking about. Yeah. And you can't do that. You have to be open. You have to be open to everything. You don't want to follow that one guy's thought pattern because he's going to lead you to a rabbit hole and you're, and you're not going to go anywhere.

You follow the people that say, hey, look at our evidence, go your own way. And try and find things. Now exactly what you're saying here about, you know, you helping us out with isotope analysis. That's what we want. We don't want to, because, you know, like you said, you know, if more people involved in this, they get involved, the faster will get information done, the more avenues we can hit at once. These investigators, some of these investigators, you know, they've been going on for, you know, 20, 30, 40 years, you know, they've gone one way. and they haven't really, I mean, look at the Linda Moten Howell, right?

She's really good at what she does. She's an investigative journalist, but has she proved extraterrestrials that existed? No, just because she stays on her own road, and you've got to be able to splinter off. You have to think way, way outside the box. Sometimes you'll hit a block wall, you know, other times you can keep going, and, you know, that's what we do. But that's what makes it exciting. the more we do is, and now with social media out there and talking to people like you and getting out to the public, really exciting now. I'm really happy about it. It's awesome, man. Well, hey, I want to end on kind of a joke question, but maybe not because recently we had this UFO congressional hearing with the House Oversight Committee.

very bold claims were made that the United States is in possession of crashed UFOs. There's programs being conducted to reverse engineer the technology. Again, very big, bold claims that have yet to be proven, but the investigations are going on right now. And this kind of led to something very interesting in the National Defense Authorization Act of 2024. bipartisan senators in the United States are calling for legislation where if there are intact spacecraft or even pieces, and that's the important part here, pieces of non-human craft in either the government's possession or in private possession,

the United States government will inevitably have eminent domain over that. over that material, over those craft. If that law passes, that's going to be really interesting to see where all of this leads. We will see if any of what this UFO whistleblower says is true. But my big question for you is, this is kind of the jokey part, but I am serious too. Are you and Frank ever worried or concerned that the work you're doing and the pieces that you're discovering will eventually be swallowed up by the. the United States again if a law like this passes. I mean, you look at like the materials that

to the Stars Academy had or Linda Moulton Howe. And eventually those pieces went off to the United States Army to be tested and they were never heard from again. So somehow these materials always find their way back into the military industrial complex, it seems. So yeah, that's kind of my my soapbox moment there. But do you think that these pieces could ever be taken from you guys before the ultimate tests come back? I can tell you this because I've talked to, Frank, about it. You know, it's interesting because I've got people ask me all the time, you know,

well, you know, what are you going to do if you, you know, if you find out that it's extraterrestrial? What are you going to do? I go, I've been doing this for 35 years. That thought does only cross my mind about a million times. And I've gone through every scenario, you know, I have to tell you this. This is absolutely true. Polygraph, if you want to pay for Polygraph. In the past couple of decades, I've been contacted twice by someone, it appears to be within the government, asking me specific questions.

They would call me. You know, when cell phones first came out and our phone numbers weren't as easy to get as it is now, I got a call from an individual, and he was asking me about the piece of metal that I found. you know, back in 2002. Very specific questions. Mr. Zukowski, can you tell me about this, what you found? What do your results? I da-da-da-da.

And I said, and I was very open with them, very truthful. And I said, if you need any more help, can you call? You know, I'm not here to keep anything from our government. I'm not here to keep anything from the public. Everybody gets all open. And he said, thank you very much. And that was the end of that. Very polite.

A couple years later, I got another phone call. And it was, I can't tell you if it's the same individual because years later. But it was another male voice that Mr. Zucoska, can you tell me about the animal mutilations and some of the investigations and what have you found on that? And I was very, you know, very specific questions. I answered the questions to the best of my knowledge at that time from what I knew. And he used to thank you very much. And so they do, I believe, you know, they do come in from time to time and poke around and see what you're doing and look at the websites and stuff. Now, if someone popped up to my door and says, okay, we've got to confiscate your material.

And I said, fine, you want to sign for it? I'll give it to you. It's perfectly fine because now I can say, hey, guess what? The government came over and took this stuff from me. That means it must be important enough that they took it. Right. And that's a big red flag out there for everybody because now they're interested in this stuff and they want our material. And here's the point.

Frank and I'll just go back out to the brief sacrifice more. Exactly. Yeah. Or keep some hidden somewhere, please. Actually, I shouldn't say. And then we'll just go back and we know what to look for. We know what to look. Yeah.

We know what material is 6,000. We know what's 3,000 because we've done this enough now. So we can identify it, visually identify it. You know, take it. Run with it. We'll just go out there and find some more. Yeah. What is that old saying?

they doth protest too much, right? They take it to try to keep the story under wraps and of what it is. And in reality, them taking it is showing us there's something to it. There's nothing important. I knew that I would just roll on that and throw that out there like nobody's tomorrow. Now, here's something Frank and I told, talked about. If they came to us and said, we don't want you to talk about this anymore. Okay, now that's a scenario too.

Then we would say the only way we'll do that is if you fill us in. That's fair. That's a good deal. And we would sign non-disclosures. Now people after going, well, why would you do that? Well, because we've been doing this so long that it's our obsession. You know, and it's something that we want to figure out before we leave this planet, however we leave it. But, yeah, I'm not going to turn down. I'm not, you know, if someone comes in and says, hey, you want to work for us,

I'm not going to turn that down. If it'll lead me to the truth of, you know, extraterrestrials living on this planet or visiting this planet or whatever, because, you know, that'll, you know, that'll satisfy me. At this point, you know, everything goes out. But you have to think about all the scenarios, too, because they can just off you. You know, you got to think about that, too. And that's happened. Remember Max Spears?

Yeah. Yep. The black vial they found. Yeah. So he told his mom a couple of days before he died. Now, Max Spears was an investigator, was. And he crossed that proverbial line. And then he taught, I guess he texted his mom or something.

It says if something happens to him, he go public with this and he was found dead. was some type of a black liquid or something coming out of his mouth. It was in his lungs. So he was very strange. So this isn't a business you want to go into that you think it's all fun in games. It really isn't. You know, when you get phone calls from individuals that could be working for the Pentagon, you get followed.

I've been followed once. My sister's an investigator. Missouri, she's been followed a couple times in investigations. So, you know, we're being watched, basically. And they're watching us and seeing what we're doing. And if we go in an area that they don't want us to go in, they're going to let us know. Hopefully they're going to let us know ahead of time and not just run us off a road or something. But I think that's not going to be the case now because there's a lot of people within the government

and a lot of people within the military that want this stuff to go public. And I think it's a perfect time right now. It's the right time, like you say with legislation, you know, in development that gets us out there. So, and then social media. You know, now, you know, we say something and it, you know, just like a speed of light, it's out there and everybody has access to it. And it's because of your viewers, you know, that are helping this become a reality because they talk, they see it's because of you with your podcasts,

but you're getting the information out, the people are watching it, and it's a multiplier effect that trickles out. You know, it's a virus, but it's a good virus. A good virus. A good virus. That's a virus that we want. Yes, for sure, man. Well, hey, you mentioned people watching you.

While we don't want the men in black watching you, Chuck, where can everyone else watch you, find you, keep up with your work? Give us all of that information, man. Well, that's a UFO nut. So it's UFONut.com. The reason why it's UFO nut is because years and years ago, you know, I was called a nut. People said, you're just crazy doing this.

And some people still do. They're so, you know, tunnel vision. They can't, you know, they can't see anything outside of wherever they're going. And they said, well, you're crazy or not or whatever. And so instead of getting mad, I decided to go with it and just kind of flow with it. And I created an acronym where this unconventional flying objects, non-human, unrecognizable technology. So that's UFO nut. But it's the license plate of my truck.

UFO bikers on my Harley. UFO Lab is on my trailer. Let's guess this is right here. UFO Nut, my Harley and UFO bikers stuff. So, you know, I'm very open and public about it. And it's really cool because people will see it and they'll stop me. And they'll give me, you know, their own, you know, reports of sightings and stuff. So it's pretty cool.

UFO nut.com. At the very top, it says email, Chuck. That's directly to me. So please, you know, if you have any questions, email me, depending on how many emails I get it, it may take a couple days for me to, you know, to get back to you. But I do get back to every one of my emails.

And look at the website. You know, it's all out there, from cattle mutilations to lights in the sky that I've filmed, to the Roswell stuff going way, way, way back. it's all out there for everybody to look at and make your own assessment, make your own judgments. Just because I'm a UFO investigator, I'm not saying that I know at all.

I don't know it all. Like I said, this is a learning experience for me and Frank and how we do this stuff. You got some great ideas? Let us know because we don't know everything. But don't ever, ever trust any investigator out there that says, I know it all,

I know everything, and you don't know what you're talking about. that's not true. You got to leave everything open. Absolutely, man. It's a mystery. We all continue to chase for our own reasons, our own purpose, our own meaning. And hey, in terms of your meaning and Franks, I can't wait to see what comes over this. It's very exciting. And we'll have to have you back on when we get those isotopic ratios back for sure. Well, I guess, you know, it's funny because we were talking to, I'm not going to mention the other individuals, but, you know, they wanted us to go public with them and they were going to do a big press release and a press conference and on and on.

And it turns out that they were kind of exploiting what we were doing, you know, for their own benefit. That's okay. I understand. Everybody's got an angle and that's not a problem. But then they come back at the last minute, and this was just Friday. because I was going to hold off until this week coming up to do press release and a whole bit. And they said, well, we want you to have more data.

And we have enough data in Nizetope analysis that it proves that it's extraterrestrial. Come back and we'll do the press release and we can guarantee all this and all the TV spots you want. And I go, I don't need you. If I can come out and say this is extraterrestrial, everyone's going to be coming to me and Frank.

That's top analysis different, though. You know, when we get our, you know, as we go through the process and, and we do more lab results, absolutely. We want to come back on this podcast and tell you exactly what we're finding, you know. But you'll know if it's extraterrestrial, it'll be everyone. Oh, yeah. Well, tell us that. Asatopo analysis will be another big step. And then after isotope analysis, if it says it's anomaly,

and we go out on your podcast and releasing this information, isotop analysis, now we have to go to the science community. And now the science community, or even, you know, Congress, and we will go to Congress and say, look, we got something, we got evidence, proof, what's our next step? So something like that. Yeah. Yep.

Yeah, the steps are gradual, but they're baby steps. And we're in the infancy of disclosure. And we'll get there, man. We'll get there. Wow. There's so much more I want to talk to you about, Chuck. But we'll save it for the next show. This is a huge, huge development.

And I can't be happier for you guys. And I have to thank you once again for coming on somewhere in the skies today. Well, you know, like I said, it's it's shows like yourself that gets this information out of public. And if we didn't have people like you that host these shows

and then your viewers, listeners if it goes audio or video, you know, it wouldn't help us. And the whole purpose of this is to get the information out of public. But you guys, you're the driving force. You know, we're the ones that started it. You know, we'll start the car, but you're

going to help us drive it. and that's what we're not going to be able to get from A to B without, you know, the support of your viewers and listeners in these podcasts. And you're the first one. So you can, you're going to be jumping off the floor and starting that car and getting it around. I am revving that engine. You have revving that engine, brother. Thank you so much.

I really appreciate it. Thank you very much.