Somewhere in the Skies - Ruben Uriarte: UFOs Over Mexico and the Southwest

Episode Date: May 15, 2017

On episode five of SOMEWHERE IN THE SKIES, Ryan introduces us to a UFO sighting that occurred in 2004 in which the Mexican Air Force reported eleven UFOs during a routine patrol flight. Infrared cameras mounted on the plane were able to capture the UFOs. Radio transmissions and an official report given to the Mexican Secretary of Defense made this a very intriguing case that received very little attention in the United States.  The UFO topic is often seen through very western eyes within the United States. But many extraordinary cases have occurred both on the southwestern border and through the skies and grounds of Mexico. And one individual who has looked extensively into these cases is Ruben Uriarte. In this episode, he and Ryan discuss the strange case known as the Cisco Grove incident, in which a UFO witness spent an entire night fighting off an entire fleet of alien humanoids and a robot-looking being. Ruben also speaks of the 1975 Carlos de los Santos case in which a pilot encountered three saucer-shaped UFOs surrounding his plane. They end the conversation talking about a lesser known UFO crash over the town of Coyame in which a mid-air collision supposedly took place between a conventional plane and an unknown aircraft. Guest Bio: Ruben Jose Uriarte graduated from Cal State University at Hayward/East Bay with a B.A. degree in Psychology and Latin American Studies. Ruben is a member of MUFON (Mutual UFO Network) as a Field Investigator, State MUFON Director for Northern California and Deputy Director of Investigations/International Affairs. Ruben has been involved with a large network of research organizations and served as a California State Coordinator for Crop Circle Phenomena Research International. He was a former research director for Beyond Boundaries, a company specializing in taking tour groups to various UFO "hotspots" around the world. Ruben currently serves as a board member for OPUS (Organization for Paranormal and Support Understanding). He as authored a number of books, co-written with Texas UFO researcher Noe Torres, about major UFO crashes and other historical cases that have occurred along the borders of the United States and Mexico. To learn more, visit: www.roswellbooks.com - - -  If you have a story to share or would like to suggest guests and topics, please email: [e-mail] Official Website: www.somewhereintheskies.com Twitter: @SomewhereSkies Ryan's book, 'Somewhere in the Skies: A Human Approach to an Alien Phenomenon,' is available by CLICKING HERE  Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/somewhere-in-the-skies. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is somewhere in the skies with Ryan Sprague. ground personnel and members of the Mexican Air Force. On March 5th, 2004, over the city of Carmen Campache, an Air Force bi-motor plane was on a routine flight to detect a drug-smuggling airplane. During their patrol, however, members of the crew witnessed no less than 11 unidentified flying objects in close proximity. These objects were recorded on the plane's dome-mounted infrared camera system. They showed bright balls of solid light floating stationary. at high altitudes. The crew claimed that these objects then began to surround the plane. Eventually, the crew made a safe landing and a report of the event was prepared.

The Secretary of Defense took notice and began a full investigation studying and evaluating every element of the case. The video and accompanying transmissions were made public, leaving many to believe this was an authentic UFO event in midair. The others were more skeptical, believing it was nothing more. more than oil platform burnoff flares from a refinery below. No matter the case, this UFO event was one of the many unsolved mysteries that have invaded the skies over Mexico. And as we'll learn today, they've invaded the ground as well.

My guest is Ruben Uriarte. Ruben is a member of Mufon as a field investigator, state Mufon director for Northern California, and deputy director of investigations and international affairs. He has authored a number of books co-written with Texas UFO researcher No Torres about major UFO crashes and other historical cases that have occurred along the borders of the United States and Mexico. Today, we talk about the Cisco Grove incident in which a UFO witness spent an entire night fighting off a gang of strange beings. He believes were from another planet. We then move into the incredible case of pilot Carlos de Los Santos.

who while mid-flight was surrounded by three saucer-shaped UFOs. We also talk about the controversial and lesser-known UFO crash, known as the Cayome Incident. So, without further ado, here is our conversation with Ruben Uriarte. Rubin, thank you so much for joining us on Somewhere in this, guys. Oh, thank you, Grant, for the invitation. I'm glad to be here with you and your audience. Great. I've been following your work for a while now.

I've seen you speak several times, and you never cease to amaze me with bringing new fresh cases. You know, we have our Rosvilles, we have our Rendell Shums, but there are so many other fascinating cases with evidence out there that people don't know about. So we're definitely going to talk about some of those today. And one of those cases is, it's absolutely fascinating. This is the 1964 Cisco Grove encounter. And this one, like I said, isn't talked about much. And it's a little out there, to be honest, when I first heard about it. But those are the ones I find the most fascinating.

Sir, for our listeners who may not be familiar with it, would you mind running us through this incredible case and also how you got involved researching it? Because I know you have firsthand research and investigation into this. Yes. Thank you, Ryan. I just want to preface that the research that I've been doing, specifically in the Southwest and in Mexico, I've been working very closely with my good friend and colleague Noah Torres, who we have co-authored a number of books together on the whole subject of the U.S. and Mexico border incidents,

which really has opened up a lot more for us in terms of networking with a number of the Mexican investigators and with a number of other people as well. And it's been ongoing. Of course, I've been with Mufon, Mujo Network, for approximately 25 years now. Wow. Congratulations. Oh, well, that's my age. But, you know, I serve as an international.

coordinator as well as the state director for Northern California. And throughout this whole period of time, I've been working with a number of very, very professional people that are in Mufon and also outside of Mufon. So there's a number of dedicated people that are like me and like yourself. We're trying to find out what the truth is and also look at those cases. So specifically, both Noe and I have been concentrating on these historical cases

that are not heard of, as you had mentioned. And if we don't really share that, the audience or the UFO community as well as the general community, will not know about these significant cases. So we tend to concentrate on those. And it's amazing, Ryan, there are a number of examples. so many interesting cases that go back in the late 40s, early 50s and 60s and on, that I think we should not forget about them. And also the pioneers that we've had, the former investigators that are out there

that worked on these cases that are no longer here, but they've left their significant contribution for us as well as the future generations to keep researching and have that material available. But going back to this one encounter, we call it Aliens in a Force, the Cisco Grove UFO encounter, which we wrote a book about it. It's an interesting story, Brian, by a gentleman by the name of Don Schrum. And his experience happened back in 1964 in September in an area known as Cisco Grove, which is about 80 miles northeast Saccharacter. from Mendo going toward Nevada. And it's an area near what we call, near the Tahoe National Forest.

And he was approximately 26 years old at the time. And he was also a bow and arrow hunter. So he hunted for deer. And throughout through that part of the season, you're only, you're only allowed to bring a bow and arrow and not any firearms until later for the hunting season. So he and his buddies had decided to spend a weekend to do some hunting. And there was two other gentlemen that had joined him. And when they arrived at their campsite, he decided they would just take an early evening hunt. So he started to follow a trail, which all of a sudden it just got real dark.

And probably that was an issue that he should have. You know, he had to reconsider. They should await it. But what happened was that he got dark, and he knew he could get back to the campsite. So he decided to climb up a tree, mainly to protect himself from predators, like mountain lions and bears and that.

And he was a well-season hunter. So he knew a lot about hunting and being a woodman, an outdoor woodsman as well. So he climbed up a tree, and later that evening, he got down and he started some little campfires. And will and behold, he saw a light out there in a distance, and this light came closer to him, and he thought it was a helicopter. Well, then he was concerned because he said, wait a minute, there's no sound. And then all of a sudden this light appeared to him, and he realized that this was not. a light. He could see a silhouette of a large cylinder shape object flying right above him.

And I frightened a heck out of him. He immediately climbed back up on the tree and hid him hid. And then the all of a sudden a small scout ship, a smaller ship was ejected from the larger ship, like what we can refer to it as a mother ship. And a small object landed. And he's there in his, in his tree and then all of a sudden he sees these humanoid shaped creatures coming toward them and then when he looked

at them the thing of that was really unusual Ryan was that they looked like they were wearing spacesuits right right that's the goggles and they had these large eyes and from what from what he remembered and later it was followed

by another creature or more of a robot and it started to also approach up to the tree. So they were interested in them, and they were trying to get him down from the tree, and he fought with him all night. That was his struggle. So this incident was investigated way back

by a gentleman named Paul Cerney. He was with NICAP, a National Investigation Center for Phenomena. And it was the largest, organization at that time and Paul was the lead investigator and he later received the case on this. This gentleman finally had filed a report. So Paul went to interviewed him. This is back in 65 and he put together a very detailed report, a transcript and an audio of his. his investigation. So the way I got involved in it was years later, Paul had passed away,

and I acquired a number of his cases when he was with NICAP. I forgot to mention that Paul was also with Mufon. Okay, so that's how you two got connected. Yeah. Okay. So he, so I found the case, and later I read it and I thought oh my God I said who would or ever thought what would I do if I'm hiking or I get lost or hunting and what would I do and you know what if I had an encounter with with extraterrestrials and through synchronicity I was able to meet with him through another colleague in Mufon and we invited me to come and stay in need with me. a weekend with him, there at his home with his family. And I got a really, it was a great opportunity to re-interview him, basically go over the notes that I had and materials that I had acquired that were almost approximately 50 years.

Wow. And I tell you that his, he relived the experience with me. And it was as if he was there and was still fresh in his mind because he was traumatized by this experience. Oh, I can imagine. Yeah. Yeah. And so what was really fortunate was that his son videotape the entire interview that I did with him. And we were able to compile both video and audio tapes of the questions and his responses to each of the questions.

and I believe we will have a chance to share that with the audience. But also one of the wishes of both he and his wife was that they wanted his story to be put into a book as told by them because there were a lot of variations of stories that were being misconstrued or whatever. And so we were very fortunate to have been able to both Noah and I to write. write their, put their story into a book. And unfortunately, both he and his wife have now passed away. And he survived by his son and two other daughters. But at least I feel good that we have complied with their dreams, their wishes,

because we were able to put it into a book for him. And also, we could share the story now with the audience. So it is a very significant event here. happened in northern California and also later if we get a chance I'd like to share with you another similar story of three young men actually there were Boy Scouts in Mexico along the border that also had a similar experience where they had an encounter with with extraterrestrials where they had to seek refuge in a tree and then later there was a number of these beings came right up to them and so

It's a whole other story, which I hopefully can't share. Yeah, let's, what we'll do now, Ruben is I'd like to share some of that audio from your personal interview. So we'll go ahead and play one of those right now. And I heard some thrashing through the brush in probably five, ten minutes. These two humanoid's come out of the brush, and they kind of broke some of the brush off and was looking at it. Then they came straight underneath the tree and looked up at me. And I knew right then I was fingered. They found you.

Yeah, they found me. Can you describe them for us? Yeah, they looked like four or five feet. Of course, I'm looking down at them, so they'd be shorter than they probably are. And they had a silvery, like a one-piece suit on, and it seemed like it had the joints, puffy joints, you know, on the shoulders and the elbows,

and the legs I didn't see that clear. Were you able to see their faces? No, it was just kind of a dark shadow. I could see the two like eyes that were, looked like welding goggles to me. They're the same as welding goggles. About two inches in diameter. It reminded me just, like I said, like welding goggles.

And then the rest of the face was kind of a blur. I couldn't see looking down at them. Then I saw two flashing red, orange eyes, eyes, just picking this way down the ridge, just between the rocks and around them and everything, and come down and was on this big boulder, this big flat rock. And then he kind of looked up at me and he moved his hand through the fires, cinders, and kind of scattered them. Then he come down, up on the rock, he was about seven feet from me. And then he touched his mouth and, um, he touched his mouth and the kind of a steam vapor come out of his mouth and it lit up its face so I could see

some detail and then I blacked out when that steam hit me kind of took the air from me and I'd gas for air and then black out and I fell over my bow and that's the only thing that kept me in the tree and then so I figured they were out to get me then the eyes of this other creature like the robot. What did that look like to you? It had kind of like fire. It's kind of an orange-reddish orange or yellowish orange. It kind of flickered like fire. And they're about the same diameter as about two inches in diameter as the humanoid. Did you hear any noise between them, any communication? Was there any?

You know, I heard kind of a cooing or almost like an owl, but it could have been an owl, you know that up there but it just kind of fit in with with them. I had a 60 pound bow which is a very high velocity. Since seeing how the robot is the only thing that was causing me harm, I shot the chest area and it has the velocity of a rifle at that distance because I'm only about seven, eight feet from him. And when I hit the chest, the sparks would fly like an arc welder kind of. And then that robot backed up and almost knocked him down.

He kind of fell back against the rock. And the two at the bottom took off and headed for the brush and stood out there about 30 feet from me. And then I shot two more arrows and about the same time sequence. These two humanoids would, every time I'd shoot, they'd go back up into the brush, just almost out of sight from me. Then I run out of arrows, so I only had three left. And I thought, well, I had, that's when pomade, hair, it was just, I mean, the cap I had on was just soaked with oil.

This is for your hair, pump. Yeah, from my hair, yeah, yeah, yeah, palmade. And I always carried all kinds of books of matches with me when I hunted. And so I lit that cap and it just blazed up and I dropped it down the base of the tree. And just in that instant, they moved back about 12, 15 feet. And I glanced over at the ship that was over the canyon, kind of almost level with me. And it was almost out of sight. It was just like a star.

It moved that fast just in that second. So then I got the idea that they're scared of fire. So I burned everything but my t-shirt and my jeans and come to find out later on that it was 32 degrees out and I was shaking and kind of overexposed for the weather. Well, when I threw after my hat, I threw my canteen down and they'd picked it up and looked at it and threw it back down. And at one time I threw, I had a bunch of change and I threw it down and they all kind of gathered around it. Somebody told me on the coins that it gets dates, it gets pictures, you know. So maybe that was the reason they were, that they got most of the coins. But you didn't find any.

No. What about the robot creature? Well, after I started burning stuff and throwing it down, and I even tied some of my shirt that I ripped up to compass so I could try to hit some brush because there wasn't. nothing right underneath the tree. And I caught a little pile of brush on fire. I figured that would bring the cavalry. When I run out of stuff to burn, I headed for the top of the tree. And then I'd, it was pretty sparse tree I could see down to the ground. And I broke off the top and threw it down. And any time I'd throw down or shake the tree, these humanoids would back up. When I was up in the top of that tree, I thought about just jumping off and jumping down the canyon and just killing myself.

But the only thing that kept me going is I had the little girl, my wife, and that kept me fighting. After I went to the top of the tree, I had a military belt, and I moved it out to the last hitch and put it around me in the tree. So in case I did get gasped, I wouldn't fall down. And then finally, these two humanoids stepped back from the tree and another robot came. And there was two, just about the same place that the two humanoids were. And they stood facing each other and flames just like lightning, real bright and it just came between them. And then the gas was so thick coming up the tree that it would dissipate just about the time I got to me. But then that's when I'd start gas for air.

And then when I woke up from that, it was light, but the sun hadn't come up yet. And I was just hanging by my belt, my head down, my feet down, and they were gone. Well, I knew I made it. I lived through the night. Just to go back, did you fall asleep? Or this gas, did it overwhelm you? Yeah, that's when it just completely engulfed the whole tree and got. up to me and I don't know how long I was out but it was just you could see just a dim

glow of the sun in the on the clouds and stuff not clouds but in the sky and then when I woke up it was light but the sun hadn't come up yet I got down and I found found my compass and and no coins the coins were gone and my canteen but I knew which way I shot the arrow in which way it would arc. So I found two of them and then tried to make my way back to camp. And I got almost to camp and I just kind of fatigue and everything. I just laid down. And I heard this, my buddy, hunting buddy, whistling. And I yelled at him and he come pick me up and help me to camp. I just slept for about six hours because I'd been up all night. And then they didn't bug me until, you know, until I woke up. Then, uh, I told them more of the story.

What was it? What was their reaction? Well, they believe me because they, they saw the condition I was in. That's, see, that's absolutely fascinating to hear from the witnesses themselves, Rubin, is, um, it's rare. And it's, like you said, this is, uh, both he and his wife have since passed away. So some of these audio interviews are all we have left, including your book. to hear the most accurate story. So thank you for sharing that with me and with the audience. I'd love to dive right into the other case, you mentioned, that is almost similar, but in a completely different part of the world.

Would you mind sharing that story with us? Yes. What's also very interesting, that has some similarities to the Cisco Grove case was an event that happened by three young men that were separated from a hiking excurs. back in May 16th of in 1997 and this happened in the rugged border desert known as La Ruma Rosa and that is in northern Baja California it's a real rugged area and it stretches on both sides of the border and these young men were hiking and they were going to follow and they were all part of a Boy Scout excursion and the entire troop went hiking into

toward it some waterfalls that were that was like about about approximately about 10 miles away from their main campsite and somehow these these young men were following the main the main group and when they were returning back from the campsite they took the wrong trail and along the trail they noticed there were a lot of rattlesnakes, big ones. And obviously they just said, hey, it was starting to get dark. And then they thought they're going to try to stop and start a campfire. And they saw some trees. And so they decided to get close to the trees and start a campfire.

And they couldn't. And it just started getting darker. So then they decided to climb up the tree and protect themselves from not only the rattlesnakes, but from any other predators as well. But later that evening, they saw again, it's very similar like the Cisco Grove case, these bright lights that were far away. And they thought, oh, maybe that's a search party, or maybe that's a helicopter. They just kept looking, and they kept looking, and the lights were coming closer and closer.

to them. And all of a sudden they realized the light started taking into, it was taking a certain form. It was a form like these small humanoids. Only they were glowing white. They were like a bioluminescent color.

Okay. And these guys were approaching the tree and they came up to the tree and whatever this is what I find fascinating Ryan was that whatever they touch it would glow like they would touch a rock

or they would touch a plant or touch the tree their handprint would glow Oh interesting So it would almost like be transported Or it was almost like a contagious luminescence Exactly and I thought that was And plus their bodies were glowing

Right right And I thought Well why why carry a flashlight Yeah what's the point Your body's glowing And then whatever you touch is lit up And I thought that was pretty fast Yeah. And so like both cases, going back to the Bowen Arrow case, I forgot to mention that.

In that particular story with Don Schrum, both these alien creatures, alien humanoids, as well as the robot creature, we're trying to capture him. and they were trying to knock him out with some sort of vapor that was being emitted from the robot creature. So what happened was he, Don was on survival mode and he climbed up further up the tree, and then he started breaking down the limbs. He had matched match sticks with him, and he would light tree branches on fire and throw him down toward the humanoids. And that's what frightened them. That's what frightened the humanoids.

They were afraid of the fire. They immediately backed up. And so did the robot. And then as soon as the fire would die down, then they would just come right back up with the tree. And he was maybe about 15, 20 feet up on the tree. And then he would sway the tree back and forth just to frighten them as well. but they stayed there

and what happened was he finally got fed up and annoyed by the robot creature and he had three arrows with him and he shot all three arrows at the robot creature at first he had thought about shooting the humanoids but then he thought

no they're not really bothering me something told him inside not to do that but instead he shot at the robot at the robot creatures So with that, there was another group of aliens that also, or humanoid had arrived with another robot creature. And then both of the robot creatures arrived. Both another robot approached the robot that was next to the tree.

They both stared at each other. And then all of a sudden there was this electromagnetic lightning and everything. This force field just opened up. and then both robots emitted this huge plume of gas that went up and toward Don, and Don became unconscious. What happened was Don was smart. He had wrapped his belt around himself and around the tree trunk to prevent him from falling. Right, right.

Yeah, so when he woke up the next morning, they were gone, and yet he was there dangling in the tree, so he was able to get down from the tree. so he was able to get down from the tree. He found some of his arrows, some of the things that he had thrown at him, and he went back to the campsite, and he found his friends, and he was totally exhausted.

He fell asleep for about six hours, and then later went back to, he went back home to share the experience with his family, and there's a lot more to it, where the Air Force got involved. Now, now I'm going to jump back to the Mexican thing, case where these three young men were up on the tree and when these beings they were they had a they were very curious they said why you know think think about this uh right uh in both both cases

uh you have these witnesses climbing climbing up on it in a tree i mean why would he you it's not your normal thing where you find humans in a tree. Right. For some reason, in both cases, they were in the wrong place at the wrong time, and it just will happen that there would be a UFO hovering in that area and catching a curiosity. So what happened here, Ryan, was in this case, in the Mexican case, the beings approached him, approached the boys, and then they started to climb up the tree. Oh, wow, okay.

So this is where the cases differ. Yeah, yeah, they climbed up the tree, and they got near the boys, but they kept their distance. And so they kept climbing up the tree limb, and then all of a sudden a small disc hovered right above the tree, and then it was followed by a number of other, other trees, excuse me, a number of other UFOs. Okay.

And so all of a sudden, the door of the object opened up, and the beings, some of the beings were able to climb up in the tree, and they used the tree to get like a ladder to climb into this. Wow. That is so amazing. Well, these gentlemen kept looking, they saw that there, that the, that's, that, that, tree was surrounded by all by 40 I think they estimated there were 40 of these beings

they were there whoa and you noticed that they also paid attention to the plant life and rocks so it was almost as if they were like on a science like a scientific expedition right right and he also said that they were carrying a small box and they would break off into groups and in each group one would carry a small box so

they kept observing these beings and then finally later they left and then all of a sudden they didn't hear anything but then they came back and they could hear all this

rustling down down below among the leaves and from what I remember was that they couldn't see them and they'd find out that perhaps they were invisible So they didn't see them And then later more of these beings came back again

And finally they left And during throughout that time there was a number of these Flying a disc above around the tree They would make formations into a triangle So then right around dawn And finally the boys when the sun came up and the beings were gone. They climbed down the tree,

and they checked themselves to make sure everything was okay with them, and then they decided to go ahead and climb back, excuse me, to go back to the campsite. They decided to find the main trail. And later, they ran into a small search party, and so they were able to be directed back to the main campsite. What happened in this case, Ryan, was that this particular case was publicized throughout the national media in Mexico.

And it caught the interests of a number of people, the local media as well. And later, Mr. Hyman Malsan, who is a well-known journalist and has been involved in UFO investigations in Mexico. He went to visit these boys two years later, and he went back to. the campsite. Long expedition and sure enough they did observe these two beings way out there. They did observe two of them through binoculars and that.

That area is just very, very has a lot of anomalous activity as well as other areas along the border. Wow, no, you're saying when Jaime went with the boys, they actually had

a sort of far-off encounter they actually saw beings? Yes, yes. And recently, I was invited to go down, that go to a small event that they were having, a campsite to meet with the young boys.

Well, now they're, this is almost 20 years later. Right. They're not young men, old to them. And there was a reunion with them as well as with the number of local people and the participants in this excursion that they had to meet with them. So I was invited to go, and they had a small UFO conference in that area,

which I might be attending one later on in a year. But the chance to interact with them as well as tying in the similarities between these both cases is quite interesting. Absolutely. And I mean, you know, having met Donald and then having met these, you know, at this point these young men, what do you make of the Boy Scouts? I want to ask you that, Rubin. When they told you this story, when you met them face to face, did you believe the story? Did it seem like they were, they stuck to it? Yeah, I just wanted to clarify. I didn't get a chance to meet with him. However, I spoke with the main young man who wrote a book, Raul Fabricio. see okay he wrote he wrote he wrote the book and I had contacted I had contacted him to get permission to you to tie in his to research more his story and as well as putting together a presentation that I did last year and I told oh yes I totally believe what he said what the experience really actually happened just like after when I spoke with him on the phone and looked at the comparisons

with the notes that I had and with my interview with Don Shrum. I find these boys to be, or these young men to be of my character, as well at least the story has a lot of credibility. It sounds like it, yeah. And I mean, what is there to gain from something like this? You always have to wonder when people come forward with cases as incredible as these. Yeah, and that's the other thing is what I've, fine is like with Don,

they, he had an, and he was, he used a different name. This concern was the same issues. A lot of, a lot of these folks who have encounters or their experiences, is they're,

they're concerned about the ridicule factor. They're concerned about what their families might think, or if there might be a possibility that this will affect your job. So gradually later, these folks who will finally come out and help put together, or give a much more information on what had happened to them. And if we were fortunate, they may put it into a book. So that's one way we could start tying in the comparisons

or with these different unique historical cases. Right, absolutely. And I mean, while these cases happen somewhere on the ground room, and I want to talk about one that happens somewhere in the skies, which is, you know, aptly the title of this podcast. guest. This case gave me chills. Nothing is more credible and more chilling than having a UFO encounter in the air from pilots. Now, could you please run us through the Santos case? Because this one is by far one of the most incredible cases I've heard. And talk about a close encounter.

Oh, yeah. This case here really has one of the most significant cases that I'm from a across, thanks through a number of colleagues that have investigated this case previously. One of the reasons why I was so fascinated with this case is that I need to go back and share with you about another case prior. What really got us interested in the Carlos de Los Santos case, both Novi and I had put together a book called Mexico's Roswell. Oh, yes, of course. The Chihuahua UFO crash.

And that's where an object had collided with a small airplane over the deserts of northern Chihuahua in an area known as Koyame. The way the story goes is back in 1974, on August 25th, there was a small plane that flew from airport flying toward Mexico City. And in that, at the same time, there was an object that was an object that was. was being monitored out in the Gulf of Mexico that was flying toward Texas and over by the Houston, the Gulf of Mexico area heading toward Texas. And this object was being picked up by U.S. military radar thinking the radar operators thought this could have been an ICBM that may have been launched from a submarine. As it turned out, the object was around flying or about 2,000 miles an hour and it was up at 75,000 feet and then it started to descend

gradually and all of a sudden it made a 90 degree turn made an abrupt turn of what it going into U.S. airspace and then it flew into northern Mexico at that time that object collided excuse me that object had flown over most of northern Mexico towards the Chihuahua Desert and that's when the collision had occurred and not Not to go in too much in depth about the story, but what I find fascinating, of course, is that in the attempts of the search and rescue by the Mexican Army, small disk, and the disc was approximately 16 feet in diameter, about 5 feet in height. So it was a small disk.

It was small, yeah. Yeah. And what's interesting was, there's more to the story, but the way we knew. about this case, it was through a report called the Deneb Report, Deneb, was the name of the report that was written by what we believe are a group of military insiders. These people really went in depth or the rider, they really went into depth about the rescue and the attempts to get the saucer back. And then unfortunately, the Mexican soldiers were exposed to some sort of agent.

and they all died. Oh, wow. In the convoy. So what was interesting was that the, all this is being monitored, and there was a large army base across the border in El Paso from Fort Bliss. They immediately launched a team, and these guys went toward the wreckage and also the convoy where they found all the soldiers that were dead. The difference is that the U.S. arrest.

rescue team they all wore protective clothing of protective equipment and then they immediately went toward the disc and they were able to get it attached to a large helicopter and it was flown back to the border crossed to the U.S. with a number of

other helicopters escorting the larger helicopter back to the while the day you know with the UFO dangling so yeah there's a lot that's a whole other interview there but the reason one of the fascinating things about this case it happened in August 25th of 1974 well it just so

happens that eight months later approximately in May May 3rd is the exact date in 1975 there was a pilot that reported that he was flying and he had a an axe one of the UFOs had hit the underbelly of the fuselage. Then he started to, when he was flying, he, this is what he had shared with me, because I met with him in person as well. He was 23 years old at the time, and when he was flying,

he was flying toward the west coast out of Mexico City, flying some businessmen, and they were flying towards, toward in Guerrero. And when he arrived, the next day he was going to return back. He was a, oh, it was a small little town called Sewanthanejo. It's in the state of Guerrero. It's on the Pacific side of Mexico.

And he was flying a piper, Aastic, which is a small Cessna, well, almost the size of a small Cessna. Okay. And so when he was flying back, he was flying at an altitude. to about 10,000 feet. And all of a sudden, he had this feeling that he was being watched. And he looked over to his left side of his wing, and all of a sudden he saw this dark gray disc hovering right above his wing.

And then he immediately turned to his right, and then he saw another disc right above his wing on the right side. And then all of a sudden, a disc, a disc came right toward him and he thought he was going to have a collision with it

and then all of a sudden it just went to bang it went below and it stuck underneath a piece of lodge so he had three three of these planes surrounding him

and he was terrorized he was just horrified and then all of a sudden he noticed that he had no control of the flight instruments oh no this is like

my personal nightmare ruin Oh, God. Are you a pilot? No, but, you know, I'm going to be moving to Los Angeles soon, as I told you. And I do plan on doing some civilian flying with a mutual friend of ours, Greg Bishop, the UFO researcher. But this is, this, I have horrible nightmares about this, you know, the instruments failing. And I can't even imagine adding a UFO event to that.

Oh, God. And again, he basically, or Carlos describes the disk to be about, oh, approximately about 14 feet in diameter. Again, these were a small disk. And so what was really problematic was all of a sudden these objects started to lift his airplane into a higher altitude. and so he was flying approximately at 10,000 feet and then all of a sudden he's up at 15,000 feet. Oh, wow. And what scared him was the fact that his,

as they were dragging him upward, his concern was his cockpit was not pressurized and that he would have no oxygen and he would pass out. That was his main concern. Well, then he, throughout this time, he was calling the air traffic controllers in Mexico City, transmitting, mayday, mayday, mayday. I have three UFOs completely surrounding me. I have no control of my flight instruments. Do you hear me?

And fortunately, just his entire experience was recorded by the Mexico City Air Traffic Control. And so I believe you may have a small segment of. of that to share with the audience when you're ready. Yes, absolutely. You know what? Let's go ahead and do that right now. So this is the actual transmission between Santos and the Mexico City International Airport Control Tower, guys.

So let's take a listen right now. So that just gives me chills, hearing the frantic voice of Santos himself in real time as this UFO event was happening, Rubin. Wow. I feel so fortunate that we have that. It is evidence that, you know, this isn't just a story. This has been recorded in terms of the FAA being involved in Mexico City. Oh, wow.

Oh, absolutely. His cases. And there are other pilots that have also had encounters with unidentified era phenomena, or UAP or UFOs, as we say. But one of the things that I find real interesting, too, is the verification behind this because the Mexican government and also their

version of the FAA had they ordered a small Learjet that was nearby to make visual contact and the pilot in that Learjet also noticed the three mysterious objects surrounding Carlsus Airplane Oh wow

So that's the other part of the verification and what happened was that Carlos noticed that they were flying right over or close to the volcano Popo Conta Pettled. That's one of the largest active volcanoes not too far from Mexico City. And all of a sudden these objects on his left side just flew toward the direction of the volcano. and so did the other object that was on the other side of the wing. And finally, the one that was underneath his use to watch left the airplane. And it went toward that same direction.

So he had to land back back at the Mexico City airport. And when he tried to land, but he noticed that his flight wheels was unable to operate. In other words, the wheels were stuck. So he manually had to crank the wheels down. And that might have been because of the dent that UFO had caused under the fuselage. So finally he landed. And upon his arrival, he was seen, they gave him a medical exam, to make sure that he wasn't

hallucinating or wasn't on drugs or or he wasn't on that. He wasn't drinking any alcohol and he came out. They obviously didn't find anything out of the ordinary with him. Well, he had to

his there was a lot of attention again like the case from the young man in Mexico like the Boy Scouts. There was a lot of national media with this case and we're again we're look we're going back in the

time in 1975 there was a lot of a lot of interest in the by the newspapers and and that so it was big news and finally several weeks later and this is gets really interesting Ryan what he shared was he was driving and he was confronted by four black-suited a Scandinavian-looking man as he just drive him in a black limousine Oh no Yeah

And they They forced him on the side off the road And they warned him not to discuss his sighting Or harm would happen to him and his family And Carlos was on his way To onto a television interview And he decided not to do Not to go to the interview because of the threat

And then again there were some prominent UFO investigators at the time, Dr. J. Allen Hine, and even Jack Belay, were going to meet with him. And again, these strangers reappeared, the men in black. And they threatened him again, saying he was not to be interviewed, but he said he decided to not to pay attention. And so he conducted his interview with the prominent investigators in that. And gradually, his story is one of those solid cases that has so much behind it.

The credibility of himself as well as the paperwork, the documents, the different witnesses that were there. It's definitely one of the prominent cases in euphology. Absolutely. It reminds me a lot of the Japan flight case as well with the pilot Tatauchi, who came forward, was told not to talk about it, was put on desk duty after having a UFO, you know, make contact with his plane. But thank God we have, you know, with the Japan case, we have radar data. We have the transmissions between Tatauchi and the flight tower. We have the same with the same. Santos case. So absolutely astounding. You know, that one

will remain, I think, one of the best cases in UFO history, that of Santos. Oh, I definitely. I totally agree.

And then, of course, the correlation with the cases that we've been researching the 1974 UFO case, the crash

between the UFO and the small air plane. Believe it or not, we have a number of witnesses that we have now coming forth forward and are sharing their unique stories with us. They were there at the time where when they see this bright flashing flight and we have testimony from a gentleman who actually saw some ETs in that desert area right around the same time frame when the collision had occurred. What we've done, Ryan, was we put together a book called UFOs over Mexico encounters with identified era phenomena.

We were very fortunate to network very closely with two colleagues from Mexico, Mr. Carlos Guzman and Alfonso Salazar. They have also written a number of books about uphology in Mexico, and they put together a book on aviation cases. And we felt that it was so important that these cases be shared and written and translated. So we working with them collaborated and we translated their book into English as well as we've also had included some of our cases in the book. And it gives you a historical perspective of all the encounters primarily in Mexico and Latin America. but it also gives you a picture of what is happening all over the world too of geophone counters by pilots and so this kind of gives you an idea

again and these are cases that are not known in the general uphology community and so we were very fortunate to be able to compile them and have them available so if anyone who's interested they can always go to our website which is roswellbooks.com and look at different books that we've written. Oh, thank you for mentioning the website. I know it's a treasure trove of cases like you said that just are not known here in America.

Now, whether that's the language barrier, I can't attest you. I myself took seven years of Spanish classes. I should be able to understand some of these. But like you said, it was also translated into English, which is, amazing. And then one of the other things, Rubin, that fascinates me, is how open the Mexican government is to this phenomenon and about what they've investigated. You have to wonder why we're so Kladenstein here in the United States when it comes to that. Yes. You know, it's kind of a mixed bag, Ryan, working with our colleagues in Mexico, Mr. Alpherson.

Fonza Salazar and a group of other people, they're also trying to work on a disclosure of cases from the Mexican government. And there are already, as you know, a number of governments or in different countries that have already are slowly sharing their files of UFO encounters. But Mexico hasn't officially as of yet, so these guys are trying to attempt it. But there has been a general acceptance because it's different in a sense that many of these people, many of these cases, people are not, it's just accepted among the population. Again, I mean, there is some skepticism in the research that we did in the UFO encounters. Again, we did find that were some pilots that were very concerned about sharing their stories because they, were concerned about how their administration from the different airline companies would react if they were to share their stories. But what I found was that the media had so much access directly in getting the stories directly from the pilot.

But unlike here in the United States where you usually have a PR person, you know, that will, or a spokesperson that you have to go through, in Mexico, it was the newspaper reporters that were able to compile stories. And that's what, that's what we found very, very interesting is that we, we had the testimonies and the experience already written up by the newspaper reporters. And so that was a big, big, major aid in helping us compile, at least originally when both Carlos and Altonso had put together this book. And then when we start translating it, I thought, gee, that is something that, you know, how the media treats the subject in a much more credible, much more credible than what our media is dealing with here in the United States. Although I think it's changing somewhat over a period of time. You don't get the hooplau and the ridicule factor like you used to do, at least from what I've observed. I'd have to agree. I think things are definitely changing.

The overall mindset of the possibility of extraterrestrial life is definitely changed and become more prevalent. But then the question of UFOs having visited. the planet, I think also, it's a trickle-down effect that the more cases we hear about, the more it's shared, the more people are more willing to open their eyes and possibly their minds to that. Yeah, it's fascinating. Totally, totally, I agree with you, Ryan. I think the big advantage that we have now is the technology.

Oh my God, you know, how quickly we can receive information on the internet, which we didn't have access to. you know, maybe 20 years ago at the time. It was still in its infancy. And now it's like, bang, you're able to get news from all these different websites, from information from other researchers, from various organizations like Mufon, Rcap, etc. That you are able to get an update. And the other differences now is that you mentioned it earlier was a language barrier.

Now with this technology, you can definitely get the information translated immediately into the different languages. Yeah. So I get that from, I keep in touch with a number of colleagues and that send me their articles. And unfortunately, you know, I'm not able to travel to Mexico like I used to. And we can't, oh, before, nobody and I and groups, we were, we had more. flexibility in traveling, especially in these remote areas, but unfortunately now it may, in some areas it's not safe. Due to the whole drug war situation that's been going on. So we have to take precaution, but we rely a lot on the findings of what our colleagues are finding out in Mexico.

Yeah, and the work continues, which I think is amazing. Now, I want to move Rubin to a few listener questions when people, knew that I was going to be speaking to you. They definitely wanted to chime in. So if you don't mind, I'm going to throw some curveballs your way. The first one has to do with your work with Mufon. Like you said, you're a state director. You've worked internationally with Mufon. And there are some individuals who in recent years feel that the organization has kind of moved away from its primary objective, you know, advancing the scientific investigation of UFOs. How do you respond to that criticism? What?

What do you think the organization can do to be more responsive to its membership and, you know, overall the UFO community? Well, I think we have to go back to our mission statement, which is the scientific study of UFOs for the benefit of humanity through investigation, research, and education. And our organization has been around, has been around since 1969. and it is growing. I've been with it for 25 years and have seen a number of changes. We have a great group of leaders in our administration.

We have a number of various technical people that are with various scientific backgrounds that are looking at the statistics that are being submitted by our field investigators and that. And what's interesting is that now with the technology, we're able to have a database that collects some vital information from each of the sightings.

And so out of that, I would say that you're able to get at least a general picture of what is going on in our skies, and you have a lot of data analysis to back that up. Now, as far as where we're going, going and that I'm very sure and I know that we're always open to even constructive criticism about how to improve our organization. We have a diverse membership. We meet either through conference calls and then we meet also once a year where we go over what works, what doesn't work for each state because we have a lot of growing problems in terms of we share problems

in other words how to make our organization better yeah i would i would say ryan too it's something that has been consistent uh over the years is that we definitely need new membership we need young blood we need young younger people as always been even when i was young i kept hearing that We need more young people to get involved in this. Because obviously, that work is important. And as well as getting, you know, we're a volunteer organization. We don't get paid for it except our CEO and his staff, they work 24-7. So obviously, we work very hard to make sure that they're taking care of

because we do need someone to mend the helm. But with that, though, you have a number of support staff, remarkable people that have been dedicating their time into writing up the articles and putting it together in our website, in our newsletter as well. Roger Marsh has done an excellent job, and God, I could go on with a number of other names. But I think that as far as any sort of criticism, I would just say we just need to look at it constructively and see if we can implement some of the changes so we can make better changes. Yeah, absolutely.

I mean, any organization goes through things like this. So I think that's one thing to keep in mind is that you grow, you learn, and you move on. And like you said, getting the younger people involved, I think is. particularly a good mission. And I think that's the way Mufon is heading. I mean, the website is gorgeous. It's very sleek. It's for that new generation to be like, oh, you know, this is pretty cool.

I want to check this out. And digitizing the case reports is another huge one as well, you know. Oh, God, you know, I have to share with you. I have a storage bin and I have all these whole records and that, were given to me that I have also compiled and that I have my own records. So we used to send many of these records to our national headquarters. That's the way it was done back then. It was all through hard copies and these huge files.

And now, thank God, we have it digitalized. But I have to say, though, that back then, Ryan, we, a number of these organizations that the way they communicated to their membership was through newsletters. And, God, I was going through some of the old NICAP, Coupos, and some of the other organizations that have also been involved looking at some of some fantastic information that is there. I'm sure that these files have also been digitalized, which is probably available to most people that are interested. but if we don't have that, then we lose that history if someone doesn't take the time to scan them. What I also find really interesting is that a lot of these old files that I've acquired, there's a lot of personal letters, notes that was written by the investigator

between the witness and the witness has to share their stories. And a lot of those items may not be included in the overall digital report. but that kind of gives you an insight of what was going on with those people during that time. Absolutely. And like that's something that no one else will ever really have access to. So there is something to be said for these, you know, these raw, hard data case reports. But yeah, yeah, that's fascinating. We do have another question, Rubin, about your neck of the woods in California.

A lot of triangular. UFO sightings in that area, you know, stretching throughout the decades. Have you ever personally looked into triangular UFO reports that come across any very common patterns there in California in terms of the triangular formation? Yes. What's really interesting is, I don't know if you remember the episode or the UFO hunters. Oh, absolutely. Bill Burns.

There's an episode in there. call triangle alley and that's about the triangles over that were occurring the sightings that were occurring over Sonora California and that area we had a flap of triangles in that and then we had so many reports coming in from on our Interstate Highway 5 going up all the way through Oregon Washington almost almost up to the Canadian border, and also, again, toward a Mexican border. There were a number of these sightings of these triangles, and they come in various shapes.

I mean, they come in various sizes and that, but definitely we've had our share of these triangles. I have to say, though, statistically, the largest amount of sightings that are reported are spheres, orbs, overall over triangles or disc or whatever. I look at it, we received monthly our reports from headquarters and in there that gives a description of the craft. And there are about 23 different categories.

Triangles is among one of them. But statistically, when you look at what's being reported, It has always been these strange orbs that come in different colors or metallic or almost a plasma color. They fly at immense speeds. They'll turn into different shapes as they're morphing into something else, but then they go back into their original form. It's amazing. A lot of people capture these particular.

objects on their videos or on their cell phones and that. So not to take away from the triangles, because that still is something that I find fascinating. Because I remember earlier the cases that were being reported was your good old-fashioned flying saucer-shaped objects, and it became your cylinder-shaped objects, and then were flooded with the large boomerang or the triangle-shaped objects as well.

It's funny how that happens. It almost seems to evolve throughout the decades. I mean, you have to wonder, is that a cultural thing? Is it a sociological thing? Or is this literally the phenomena evolving with time? Like you said, the most prominent now is these orbs, these balls of plasma or energy that seem to be somewhat intelligent, you know, while triangles might be some sort of top secret military technology

or mixed with some sort of E.T. technology. We won't go down that rabbit hole right now. But it is interesting that orbs seem to be more prominent now. I can't share with you. These are just sightings that happen here in the United States. We had approximately 516 triangle shape reports that reported us for the year 2016. Wow. Compared to compared to

let's see in terms of Forbes we had over a thousand I was going to say it's got to be at least double yeah what I find most fascinating is that during

the fiscal year I call it fiscal year during our calendar year of 2016 and looking at our data we had approximately 259

landings hovering or takeoffs in other words the witnesses observed these crafts either in a process of landing or they were hovering real close or taken off. But out of that, there were 20 entities that were observed. Wow. I find that quite fascinating.

I don't have the, you know, I need to look more closely. I guess what is it that witnesses saw? But obviously, when we could, the reports of how closely were, they're going to see a lot more detail. Yeah, definitely. Wow. That's a lot of very close encounter cases. Yeah, I can also share with you in terms of, you know, just overall what,

in terms of flying saucer reports, we had about 382 overall. But also reports of oval shape, which I think is also connected with this whole saucer shape. shape object. It's 251. So if you were to combine that, yeah, I would say close to over 700 total of these flying disks. But, you know, that tends to be higher, and then it comes to your triangle sightings, and then, of course, the spheres, which is the most reported.

Wow. Well, thank you for sharing those numbers. I think that's something that a lot of people don't take into consideration. And it really puts a perspective on how many UFO reports or UFO cases are being reported as opposed to not being reported. We know that there are so many more UFO sightings that don't ever get reported. Exactly. And this is our move on data. There are other databases out there.

Right. You know, we're just, again, not everyone reports their siting, but this is based on what's being reported through our database through our case management system. And I can't share with you, though, back in 2000. 2015. Overall, we had over 11,000 cases that was reported to Mupon. Wow. But it dropped for a year to, for whatever reasons for 2016, it dropped down to 7,000. A little bit more than 7,000.

So, you know, the difference of 3, 4,000, but still, it just depends on what's being reporting. And also, this is where the media is important, where we need to, continue to advertise who we are, what we do, inform people about Mufon and all the other organizations so they could go ahead and file a report, or many times people will file a report maybe after many years, or they know loved ones or whatever,

and they decide to file a historical report. Right. And then, Rubin, do you know offhand what the website is for Mufon just in case any of the listeners want to join? Absolutely. Just move on.com. Perfect. Does it get easier than that? Yeah, it doesn't get any easier. Yeah. And then, of course, for those that are interested in the other cases that we talked about,

they can go to Roswellbooks.com. Great. And that's all of you in nosework, correct? Yes. That will connect you to our Amazon.com for those people that are interested in purchasing books. Oh, perfect, yeah, because we both know there's more to these cases than what we covered tonight. Oh, absolutely. I just barely just skim the surface, but hopefully it'll give the audience an overview is what we're doing. Yes, absolutely. Now, I know you have some speaking engagements coming up in the near future. Would you mind telling us about those in case anyone's in those areas?

Yes, in October, I'll be speaking at the Mile High Mystery Conference. Yeah, that's going to be at the Crown Plaza, Denver Airport. Oh, a very controversial airport. Yeah, October 6th through the 8th. And it'll be interesting because we'll be talking about UFOs, Bigfoot, Don Politis, David Politis's work on Missing 411, cattle mutilations. There's a whole topic. They have a lot of interesting speakers, and I'll be speaking at that conference.

And then in November, through Paula Harris, Starworks Symposium, being speaking in Laughlin, and that will be at November 10th, 11th, and 12th, at the Aquarius Casino Resort in Laughlin, Nevada. And the theme there is called Time for Truth, UFOs, Living La Vida Loca. Oh, I love it. La Vida Loca, the crazy life. Oh, that's perfect. She has a great lineup of speakers as well.

Oh, she's wonderful. And I've been invited to a number of other smaller venues, but those are the two big ones for me. And then also, just to Ryan, people, if you're interested in attending our Mufant Syposium, the focus is called the case for a secret space program. They have a great lineup on July 20th through the 23rd. So you can go to mufon.com and get all the information on the Mufant Simposa.

That's so great. Rubin, thank you for joining me today. This has been extremely eye-opening. It has opened up the possibility that this is not just an American phenomenon. This is in Central America, South America, and all across the world. And we've only scratched the surface tonight. So again... It's a worldwide phenomenon. Exactly.

You couldn't put it better myself. man. That's Roswellbooks.com where we can find all your work. Yes. Perfect. Thanks to my good friend, Noit Daughters and I, we've been able to share a lot and put together a lot of interesting material for those that are very interested in what's going on. Great. I'm going to have to get No-on to talk cowboys and aliens for sure.

Oh, that's one of our favorites, yes, absolutely. Maybe we'll get you back in, too. We'll do a round table. Oh, that would be great. Any time, Ryan, we let us know. Rubin, thank you so much for joining me today. Oh, well, thank you. Thank you for the invitation.

And again, also thank you very much to all your audience. That is it for our interview with Ruben Ariarte. Again, to learn more about his work, you can visit roswellbooks.com. If you have a personal story you'd like to share on the show, please email me at Sprague at somewhere in the skies. While I may interview researchers often, it is the witness and experiencer I always want to hear from most. So please, reach out and let's start a conversation. And while we're on conversations, share the show with anyone you think might like it. These topics are more widely accepted now more than ever.

The growing listenership of this show in particular continues to astound me. So embrace that weird shit in your life, and let's keep searching for answers together. The show is on Twitter at SomewhereSkies, and we have a very active Facebook group you can join called Somewhere in the Skies podcast. And if you haven't already, please rate and review the show on iTunes. It helps more than you know. That is it for today, guys. I'll see you next Monday. And I'll say off the bat, it's going to be a very interesting episode as we dig deep into the rabbit hole of the parapsychological aspect of UFOs.

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