Somewhere in the Skies - Sammy Waisanen: The Howl Horror Program and Fire in the Sky

Episode Date: July 31, 2017

On episode 16 of SOMEWHERE IN THE SKIES, Ryan is joined by Sammy Waisenen, host of the popular podcast, THE HOWL HORROR PROGRAM. This is a podcast mash-up where Ryan and Sammy discuss their personal UFO sightings, what they love about horror movies, and their admiration for the 1993 film, FIRE IN THE SKY. FIRE IN THE SKY is the comprehensive story of a logger named Travis Walton who mysteriously disappears in 1975. Walton and co-workers accidentally discover a UFO and unfortunately, they all escape except Walton who is elevated aboard the bizarre aircraft. As time passes, the small town of Snowflake, Arizona begins to believe that the other loggers are covering up the murder of Walton. But when Walton shows up sometime later, his story of what happened is both incredible and downright terrifying. Sammy and Ryan dissect the film and go in depth about the dichotomy between the Hollywood version and the actual events that Travis Walton recounted to the public. It was a fresh take on this classic UFO film. Will there be a remake that follows Walton's version in a more accurate light? And what stunning revelations has Travis Walton brought forward about what truly happened to him on the craft that night? Tune in to find out. Guest Bio: Sammy Waisanen is the creator and host of the HOWL HORROR PROGRAM; a podcast devoted to horror movies of all kinds, from all eras. Each episode, Sammy brings on a wide range of guests including musicians, authors, burlesque performers, and television horror hosts to discuss the movies they love, and why they love them. Sammy is also the co-host of the BACK TO LIFE PODCAST, a podcast about the finer things in life like; fast food, television, aliens, music, and complaining about anything and everything. Both shows can be found on iTunes, Stitcher, and at www.backtolifepodcast.com. Outside of podcasting, Sammy has always been interested in a wide range of topics including talk radio, cryptozoology, UFO's & aliens, the paranormal, and true crime. All Past Episodes, Articles, and special content can be found at www.somewhereintheskies.com Guest & Topic Suggestions: [e-mail] Twitter: @SomewhereSkies Order Ryan's Book by CLICKING HERE Donations to the show are beyond appreciated. To donate, CLICK HERE Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/somewhere-in-the-skies. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello, this is David Marler, and you're listening to Somewhere in the Skies with Ryan Sprague. This is Somewhere in the Skies with Ryan Sprague. Did you see Travis Walton approach the object on the foot? Yeah, yeah, I did. Did you personally dislike Travis Walton? What kind of question is that? Did you or any of your crew murder Travis Walton? Absolutely not.

What did it look like? Like a fire. expect me to believe that a flying saucer came down and took your friend away. Why the heck aren't you speaking up for us? Why let this man talk to us like this? They took him. Welcome to Somewhere in the Skies. I'm your host, Ryan Sprang. So I am a guy in my 30s, so it may come of no surprise that I like horror movies. Ever since I snuck into the living room as a kid and watched from behind the couch as my parents

watched the 1987 cult classic, The Lost Boys. I was hooked. Then came my obsession with Nightmare on Elm Street, Friday the 13th, and of course the seminal work of George Romero in the Living Dead movies. I loved the vulnerable feeling of fear and suspense coursing through my veins as I peaked through my own hands covering my eyes. But deep down, I always knew that between me and the monster, there was a screen keeping me safe. These were the twisted fantasies created by writers, directors, and actors. But sometimes, there are those of those monsters that become all too real, and they don't come from the minds of a writer, but perhaps somewhere far, far off in the cosmos. Today, I'm joined by Sammy Weissenheim, host of the Howell

Horror Program, a podcast dedicated to discussing in-depth the art of the horror movie genre. This episode finds both of us recounting our own strange UFO sightings and how we came to find one and other shows. We then died deep into a film we both hold close to our pounding hearts, and that is Fire in the Sky. Based on the true story of Travis Walton's heroin, 1975 UFO abduction, Sammy and I discussed the impact the film had on us, the striking differences between the actual event and the Hollywood version, and our own runnings with a central figure that inspired it all, Travis Walton. So, without further ado, let's get to this podcast, Monster Mash with the Howell Horror Program's very own, Sammy Weissan.

Sammy, what's up, my man? I'm so honored to be here and to have this conversation with you today. It's been a long journey for us, just getting together and being able to do this and to be able to talk, but I really appreciate it, you know, and it really just came out of literally me ordering your book because I had seen so many posts about it on Instagram and online. And I was like, man, people seem to really be like enjoying this. book, I need to figure out what this is and went on your website, ordered it, you know, made sure sure to, hey, if you're going to order a book, you order a book and you have the author sign it

and was able to, you know, and then you emailed me right back, me like, yo, I'm going to be out of town, but I got it coming to you. And then we just kind of struck up with talking about podcasts. So I'm super psyched that that was able to happen and that you're actually, you know, wanting to do a show with me. It's, it's, I really appreciate it. And it means a lot. Oh, me too, man. Like, like you said, you know, we literally connected through PayPal. Yeah, that is true. Well, yeah, it's like, it wasn't even like my pay, the email address that my PayPal was connected to was an old one that I couldn't even get into anymore.

So I had to email you from a new one to be able to do this. No, it's awesome. Yeah, when I saw that you, you had your own few podcasts, actually, I had to check them out. You know, I started listening. And it's awesome that we were able to come together and that we have so much in common between our interests and horror in general. So I think this is going to be a really fun one. Yeah, man.

I've been looking forward to this for a while, so it's going to be a lot of fun. And I think that we're going to be able to really get into, you know, exactly what the whole deal with fire in the sky is, because it's a very polarizing movie. It's one of my favorite ones. So I was really happy that you were able to, you were online being like, yo, what about fire in the sky?

So it's really good that we were able to connect with that. So, yeah. Right. And like, how many, alien movies can you really think of that are in the horror genre, as it were? I can't think of many. We've got the alien, you know, anthology. But other than that, this one really stuck out to me as being more of a horror movie than anything.

Yeah, it really is. I mean, yeah, it's, it's, the, the content isn't horrific. Well, the content in the movie is actually fairly horrific. it's still like a pretty typical sci-fi movie but man like this is one of those movies that just for whatever reason just scared the crap out of people when it came out and it just is kind of one of those things where it's one of those movies where any anytime you talk to a person about it if they've seen it they're always like oh man that movie screwed me up when I was a kid so that's why like that's the best thing that a movie could be to me so well and I'm sure we'll get really deep into that soon

but I kind of want to turn the tables on you here, Sammy. Let my listeners who've never heard your show, let them know what you do, what we can expect from your podcast, please. My podcast is called the Hal Horror Program, and it is basically just an excuse for me to be able to connect with people that I don't know anywhere and be able to talk with them about movies.

And what I realized that recently was that most of the time it's not even really talking too much about the movie. It's just me being really interested in people and wanting and ending up just enjoying talking to them about their life's experience and what brought them into loving horror movies um so you know it's it's one of those things where it's really just an excuse to just try to meet people and and you know so i'll bring on musicians onto my shows uh you know i've burlesque performers just friends of mine anything from any walks of life the whole point to me is though is that you know if they're into horror movies and they and they

like that sort of thing. Then we usually pick a movie that we want to discuss. We talk about it. And then we just talk about them and what got them into it and what their favorite stuff is. So it's kind of like I'm by no means an expert on movies. These are just movies that, you know, I've grown up from a small child just for whatever reason, just being totally in love with horror movies and just continue to watch them and collect them over the years. And from my background, it's just really fascinating to be able to sit down and talk with other people who completely have a different story for themselves, but love the same things as me. Do you remember, I have to ask it, put you on this spot, do you remember the first horror

movie you've ever seen? The first horror movie I probably ever remember seeing was, I would say it's probably Pet Cemetery. And it wasn't even particularly a movie at that time that I really cared about. It was just something that I saw in the background on TV. But the first movie that really got me into horror and got me into this stuff, wasn't even a movie. It was a documentary about the filming of Michael Jackson's

thriller. I was a huge Michael Jackson's fan as a kid, and still am. I love a lot of Michael Jackson's music, and I remember once they released the album, they also released a VHS cassette of the making of, and it was available

to rent at my local video store. So I saw Michael Jackson on the cover and was like, okay guys, you know, talking to my parents, like, you have to rent this for me. And they did, and it scared the shit out of me immediately. You know, even though it was a documentary about Michael Jackson, thriller is still a pretty frightening thing where it has like the werewolf cat in the beginning

and then all the zombie dancing and stuff. And the special effects and the practical effects in there and the creature makeup was so incredible and so amazing. And it was one of those things where even though it just scared me to death, I continued to rent that movie every single weekend for probably a good five years. It was like the main thing that got me into it. I know that feeling I remember when that video

You know Was first you know Making the rounds on TV I couldn't watch it I would I would have to turn away at certain parts Especially when the entire zombie dance started It just It's too much more than too much

Well there Yeah I mean there was even a time when I would have to Like turn off the radio when that song would come on Because it would just make me think of the video too So yeah you know it was great for that way And it I mean obviously it changed how music videos were. It changed everything for that because it was basically a small movie. You know, it was a featurette instead of a music video. I think it was like eight to ten minutes or

something like that, potentially even longer. And it wasn't just the song. It was this whole ordeal. And just the fact that Michael Jackson went out of his way to find these people to collaborate with who were so incredible and huge parts of the horror scene at that point and movie makers and stuff that, you know, it was a really a special thing. And I would imagine, if it happened to me, I'm sure that he probably turned a bunch of his young fans at that point into horror fans as well by happenstance, you know, so. I'd have to agree. Yeah. No, who narrated that video? It's escaping me. Well, there's a small narration in the middle of the, in the, in the, in the, middle of the song, and that was, Vincent Price did the, did the dialogue for that. Yeah, it's just

one of those things where it just struck, I think it was the combination of, the music, but just the visuals and that. And that compelled me to just go into my grade school library and just like rent out as many like checkout, I guess, no rent out, but check out as many like horror, like movie books as I possibly could and just became obsessed with it. Yeah, I, you know, probably at too young an age. My first one was Lost Boys, if you can think.

Oh, yeah, nice. Yeah. Again, just I caught a glimpse on the TV one night. My parents were watching it. I wasn't supposed to be in the room. Sure. And, oh, man, that stuck with me. You know, well, A, awesome movie.

Still a great movie. Still one that I watch all the time. And I was actually just in Santa Cruz where they filmed it last weekend and went on the boardwalk and went on the roller coaster and stuff. That's like one of my favorite places of all time because of that movie. So I know that whenever you are over on the West Coast, definitely take a little, I think it's like four hours from the L.A. kind of area. and you're going to be right there, and it's amazing to go to.

I'm there. Exposure therapy. I'll finally get over to this fear of vampires. Yeah, definitely. Just get yourself in the middle of it, you know, and they have a bunch of, like, places that you can go to. They really embrace it during the summer as well, so it's a lot of fun. So you asked me about my show. Now, one thing that I, so I don't know if you're like me.

I'm basically at this point, I'm a podcast junkie. Like before I was a talk radio junkie, I listened. I started listening to, like I said earlier, coast-to-coast a.m. when it was Art Bell and then eventually George Norrie listened to a lot of like fringe radio and in paranormal kind of radio stuff. Eventually, once everything switched over in a major way to podcast, I started really going out and trying to find ones that, the nice thing about podcasts is there's a podcast about everything. The one thing that's hard for you and I is that there's a billion podcasts about horror movies and there's a billion podcasts about UFOs.

But I will tell you that I really, really, really enjoy your show. And if you could, would you let, you know, maybe you'd talk about, to my listeners a little bit about, you know, like your show and what you've talked about and kind of like how it's been going so far for you because it has, you haven't been doing it for too long, have you? A little under two months now. I think I'm up to about 14, 15 episodes. Yeah, you're getting right through it because like I've been.

probably doing it for about a, well, at least my, my horrors, the hell horror program I've been doing for probably about a year and a half, maybe, almost about two years. And I think that I'm only up to like maybe 25 episodes. So you're, you're really going through, you know, you're burning through it pretty quick. Well, I mean, that's the beauty of it too, man. I think is these are things you can do when you want. You're not on a broadcasting schedule. You don't have to, uh, adhere to anyone's deadlines. Like, this is for you. This is, um, and I think that's what's important. This is a passion project for me somewhere in the skies. And, you know, I do release every Monday.

That is a deadline I hold myself to. But, you know, life gets in the way of these things. So anything can happen. There might be a time I take a week off, two weeks off, two months off. Who knows? Anything can happen. But I think consistency is key. And when you have enough material out there, I like to take advantage.

of that. And the people I've interviewed so far on the show, everything from UFO, quote-unquote, experts to everyday people. You know, I've got, I've had a comedian on. I've had a writer from television. I've had, I'm going to have some Broadway actors here in New York come on the show. Oh, nice. I really want to open up, you know, the discussion. I don't want what the same damn people you've heard on every, like you said, billions of UFO podcasts or billions of horror podcasts. I want those everyday people who have an interest in this topic. So that's what excites me. That's what makes me want to do this every week.

And it's been going good so far, man. Far, far better than I ever could have imagined. It's just so good to have the support of so many people out there in so many walks of of life, not just the quote unquote UFO community. So, yeah. Yeah, no, your show, yeah. like I said, I really enjoy your show. And man, you have had amazing guests on.

You know, like, I've really loved the, like, the, the different mix of people. And it's, it's been really refreshing because, you know, you'll, that's the great thing about, you know, these shows and these podcasts is we have the ability to, to literally do whatever we want. And for me, and it sounds like for you as well, the thing that we really want to primarily get into is the stories of people that. that you may not know. You know, we can do, and we can try to do interviews with, with, uh, these, you know, researchers that you've heard on all the different shows, a bunch of times, kind of telling the same story each time. We can talk to directors or, or actors from movies who, you know, kind of have their

canned response to a lot of your questions. But it's the people that are kind of on the fringes of, uh, of those or just, you know, just anybody up your neighbor who has had an experience and has seen, something in the sky or your neighbor who loves the movies that you do and then, you know, being able to get with them and talk to them about it and kind of having a real personal connection, that's the, that's the most fun part out of it, you know, for me at least, and it seems like it is for you as well. I think so, you know, I, I'm a creature of habit. I love comfort. I, you know, if I want to

tune out, I put the office on on Netflix and I watch that. I've seen every episode a million goddamn times at this point that I know what line is. coming next and there's comfort in that. I can go do something else while this is on in the background or I put the Lion King on if I want to watch a movie. And again, it's not that I'm paying attention. It's just there. It's in the background. What I think is cool is getting people you haven't heard from and asking new questions. And that's going to make you think. Having the same people on over and over again, hearing the same thing, literally, same beat for beat, they will say the same answer to a question you've heard on 10 other.

podcasts. You know, that's fine. You know, there's a place for that. But I think what you're trying to do and what I'm trying to do and a lot of others are trying to do is to get new audiences and ask new questions and take this journey together. Yeah, exactly. And, you know, as a newer, you know, I was about to say as a newer podcaster, I'm literally been podcasting for a year. So it's not like I'm so some old grizzled vet who, you know, has been doing this for years and knows all the tricks of the trade and whatever. But, I mean, you've really quickly come. come into a it seems like a great following great guests and everything so what you're doing looks to be the right way to do it and the fact is is that you're passionate about it and you're

having fun with it and every day like what I've noticed so far is like on my phone whenever I have a Facebook like notification it's you posting in your in your group and I'm always I look at my phone I'm like god damn that guy is just always on it and it's like it's inspiring because it's like I'm literally the opposite of that where I'm always I'm always the opposite of that where I'm I'll do a little bit of promotion on things or try to get people to listen to it. But like you are always, you are always right there and you're, you know, you're really quick about things. And obviously your listeners really appreciate it. I know that as they listen to myself, I love it because it's good content.

It's like super quick content and it's always fun. I hope so, man. I hope too many people haven't blocked me on their social networks at this point. But I think it is very important to stay engaged with people. You consider your audience. You know, they're taking time out of their day to listen to you babble for an hour and a half. So the least I can do is give them quality content. And again, to just make them part of it.

If this is just me preaching to the choir about UFOs are real or, you know, this person says the government's doing this. What the hell's the point? Like, I'm no expert. There is no degree in uphology. I'm just a young, passionate person about this topic. as you are with the horror genre and just giving our opinions on these things and we feel like there are those out there

that we trust to give opinions and those are just the people we're gonna hear from. What got you into doing this? Like I know as a person who's read your book, I know what got you into it, but you had an experience when you were younger. Now before you had your experience and I would like you to actually explain your experience if you can

but before that I would like to know like did you have any interest in this subject at all? or did you know anything about it before you had your experience? No, no, not at all. Okay. Have you found that that's generally how it is? Because I come from the completely opposite direction where I have always been into that sort of stuff pretty early on because my dad just like had, you know, Readers Digest, Mysteries of the Unexplained Books just sitting around the house.

And as a kid, I'd always go and, you know, you'd read up on ghosts. You'd read up on the Bermuda Triangle or like Bigfoot or, you know, UFOs and aliens and that sort of stuff. So it's always been a fascination to me, but I don't know if that's normal or not. And it sounds like at least in your case, you didn't really even think about it until you had your experience. Yeah, for me personally, no, I didn't, you know. And I think it is a case-to-case basis for sure. I was an athlete, you know. I grew up playing baseball and listening to Green Day.

much my life, dude. Okay. Well, basically, hey, switch baseball for basketball, and I'm the same person at that point, pretty much. That is fair enough. I'm too short, you know, I got caught traveling too much when I tried to play basketball and was not my thing. And you like sunflower seeds more. Yes, exactly, just like Foxmolder. There you go. But yeah, yeah, I had, what really stemmed my interest was a sighting I had when I was 12 years old. I was on a weekend, getaway with my parents at the St. Lawrence River, which runs all through upstate New York and separates New York basically from Canada. I was fishing off a dock one night, like I said, listening to Green Day on my Discman. This was back during the Diskman days. Did it have like the auto shock like things

so it wouldn't skip any time you'd walk somewhere? Yeah. Yep. Never worked. Those were great times, man. Yeah, exactly. I don't know what that auto shock button was for, but it definitely didn't work. And you'd have to change the batteries every like two days but yeah totally that was just my incessant listening i guess uh but yeah i was i was fishing it was dark out and um i was by myself and i noticed these three white lights reflecting off the water and i'm reeling in my line and i'm like uh that looks looks kind of weird probably a plane i look up and there's this massive triangular formation probably again i was i was really young memory is hazy, but maybe like 300, 400 feet up, pretty high. And there's this fuzzy orange-red sphere in the center of the formation.

I couldn't see a type of structure, so I can't say for sure this was a craft of any kind, nothing like that, but I could not see the stars behind it either. I ripped my headphones off, my disc man goes flying down the dock, and, you know, I'm expecting to hear whatever's above me, but there's nothing. All I could hear was the, you know, like the water hitting the dock at the constant rate. Oh, so there is, you were still able to hear like everything else kind of like nature and sounds around you, but just not the actual craft. Absolutely. I could hear the water and I could faintly hear inside.

We were staying at a motel that had this dock. I could hear the Yankees game inside our room that my dad was watching. And I'm just like freaking out. I can't say anything. I'm staring up at this thing. And then I start to feel this, like this, like a vibration running behind my ears, down my neck, into my chest. And at this point, I start freaking out. I start yelling for my dad.

And finally, he gets up off his ass to come out and see what's going on. And he sees the tail end of this triangular formation. It's coasting over the water towards Canada. And he sees the two tail end lights. And, you know, he tells me it's a plane. Stop freaking out. Don't make a big deal about it. But, dude, like, even at 12, I knew this was not just a plane. Yeah.

I'm not saying it was alien by any stretch of the imagination, but it definitely was not a plane that I was used to seeing. Well, and I think that's a really interesting point there, too, being able to know, you know, like, or not know exactly what it is, you know? Because there's what I have found in being interested in this subject for for a long time and listening to a lot of shows and reading books is that people seem to be very, very confident on whether it's something like that is extraterrestrial or not. And the fact is that you don't know. So like for me, if I, you know, I didn't have the same experience as you did. I had an experience. But like to me it was the same thing where it was like, I have no idea what that was. All I know is that was weird.

and that that's not normal. Well, I'm not going to let you off easy, man. You got to tell me, just tease me a little. What was this experience you had if you don't mind sharing? Oh, no, no, no. Mine actually happened to me when I was a little bit older than you. I was about 25 and I went to the coast with a group of friends. We rented out a house, a big beach house on the beach overlooking the Pacific Ocean,

as people do from time to time. It was a group of about six people. and we went to the beach and it was summer and it was beautiful out and it was a beautiful clear night. We were on, you know, in the house overlooking the Pacific Ocean and everybody was having a good time. We ended up watching and I don't know if this, you know, like I don't know if this prompted it, but we were watching that really crappy like early 2000s Ivan Reitman film Evolution with David Kovny, the alien one. Yep, yep, yep, yep. Like for whatever reason, it was on TV.

So we were like watching that and it was like, okay. Okay, well, cool. And just like playing board games and all that kind of crap and just hanging out. Then everybody went to bed because, well, everybody went to bed besides a friend of, you know, a friend of mine and myself. They went to bed pretty early because they also were the ones that had the girlfriends. So I feel like there was some canoodling going on, you know? So unfortunately, I wasn't a part of that.

So I stayed up a little bit longer with my friend and we just kind of hung out in the living room and talked about stuff and eventually made our way out to the living room window. where we were kind of just like looking at the, at the, you know, that sky. And we both notice a green orb that was basically, if you put the, if you stretch out your arm and you are holding a like a 50 cent piece, it was about that size in front of us over. It came out from the water and kind of went up, went up to, and I don't even know how many feet.

It was, it went up pretty high in the sky, and it was really bright. It was a really bright green. And it's, and it hovered. there for a little bit. And the whole, this whole experience may be lasted about a minute and a half or so. It hovered and then it kind of sporadically kept on like moving from side to side, like left to right up to down, just kind of like in a very not like, okay, that's not a plane. And helicopters are definitely not that fast. Like there was something weird there. It wasn't like a, you know, sometimes on the coast you have fireworks. People shoot out fireworks off the beach. It wasn't anything

like that because it was very stationary, just staying there. And it kind of did, you know, kind of motioned and moved around for about a minute and a half and eventually it just just jumped and it just went directly up into the sky and disappeared. And my friend and I kind of, we kind of looked at each other and we were like, I mean, the whole time, we were completely silent. We weren't talking when it was happening because it's just one of those things where when you're not expecting to see something and then you see something that odd, you're just kind of, you're focused on it and, you know, somebody can be screaming right behind you and you're not paying attention to them. You're trying to process it. Yeah, you have, you're just trying to

figure out what's going on. And then as soon as it stopped, we kind of looked at each other. We were like, what was that? And my friend was like, he decided to go to bed. I don't know if he was just like freaked out by it or not, but he ended up going to bed. And I stayed out in the living room just watching the skies for the rest of the evening, didn't see anything the rest of the evening. But it was one of those things where, you know, this was a little bit, this happened to me a little later in my life. And this has happened to me after, you know, I grew up in a open-minded household where we had a lot of books and were, you know, watched Unsolved Mysteries every night and everything. So it was like, it was one of those things where I wasn't afraid of it, but I was like, man, I want this thing to come back.

What the heck was that? And it happened and, you know, talked to some, talk to the friends who were, who ended up going to bed. We talked to them in the morning about it. And they were just like, oh, I'm sure you go. Who knows me? It was probably nothing, that sort of situation. But it always kind of, you know, obviously it always stuck with me. And it kind of, it was one of those small things that I felt.

blessed to have been to see something now who knows what it was it could have been i could have just been going crazy it could have been anything but i was happy that i saw it because it almost kind of gave me like vindication somehow of there is weird stuff out there and it's so important to be open-minded about everything and you know it's just one of those things where i wish to you know i'm sure like you you just want to see it again you know yeah absolutely man that's a good point too is that so many people who've had UFO sightings, some of them wish they could see something again, and some would wish never to see something again.

Well, sure. Yeah, I suppose that if, like, something horrible happened, and I was, like, you know, hurt or, like, abducted by weird lizard people or something, it would, like, probably not be something I'd want to do again. But this was, like, it was more beautiful than it was anything else. Yeah, that feeling of awe, you know, can really do something to a person. And, again, like, you know, you know, know if this was alien, you don't know if it was a weather anomaly, you don't know if it was

military. I don't either. Both our sightings happened over a body of water. I find that very interesting. But at the same time, it opened both of us up to the possibilities out there, that there are things we can't explain. That doesn't mean other people can't eventually explain it, but we could not at that time. And it left a lasting impact on both of our lives. And I think that's what's most important. And that's kind of the journey I've been taking as a UFO researcher is not so much what the hell these things are, but how they're affecting people on the ground. And that's really, really what I try to get to the core of in my work. Well, yeah, I mean, and that's why I really loved your book, because your book was all of these

stories about people experiencing stuff. And a lot of times it was just like, I have no idea what that was, you know, and just like how, how it kind of, there was a few stories in there where it was like, you know, talking, you know, talking to these people and they're, they're kind of, their resolve in it was just like, I don't know, it was interesting or it, I'm glad that I saw it, but who knows? And there's so much confidence and there's so much like, I'm sure of this in, you know, the UFO field or not even UFOology or anything. Even in like, you could say the same about like people who who go out and and and do crypto zoology and study bigfoot and stuff like that. It's like there's so much confidence in insuredness in this is absolutely real or, you know,

this is this or this is that. And I'm always one of those people where it's like, we need to keep overminded here. We have no idea really what it is. That's a really good point, man. And I think now, more than ever, we live in a society where absolutes and extremes are sort of taking over, whether it's within uphology or uh the paranormal or politics science religion medicine anything we're looking at these things as i'm right you're wrong and when it comes to the ufo field that's when i tend to be hesitant to listen to someone when they say they have all the answers this is it sure um that's when i say run get the hell out of there because that is that's a sign that this person isn't willing to look at other possibilities about what is being seen in this guy or what these people

are experiencing in their bedrooms or in their minds or or anything yeah well well may i ask you like after you had your experience i mean i know that it's you know having written a book and having a podcast about this sort of about the situation i'm sure that you don't feel this way now but was there a time after your experience where you were shy about telling people about it or scared that people would think you're crazy or would judge you like as like an idiot or like whatever after you had it because I know that for myself I think that I was lucky enough to have the experience that I had when I was older and was very firm in my beliefs of I don't know anything and I don't care if you think that I'm crazy because you know less than me like you weren't even there even

seeing it so like what do you know I don't care but did you have you had yours younger did it Did it really affect, like, did you go out and tell a bunch of people? Did you tell your, aside from your father, you said, saw a part of it, but immediately kind of wrote it off as a plane? No. I was at a very impressionable age. I was, first of all, I was terrified of what I saw. I had nightmares.

So I tried to push it in the back of my mind for as long as I could. You know, again, sports took over, girls took over, school took over. I try to regress this. You know, it wasn't an abduction experience. It wasn't anything like that, but I saw something I could not explain and I feared that no one would believe me. So I did not talk about it until I was in probably, probably my mid-20s is when I started hearing radio shows and going into the chat rooms back when AOL was a thing and hearing other people's experiences. I'd done research literally from age 13 and up in the shadows. I'd write essays to myself about Roswell and Bigfoot and all of this stuff,

but I would not share it with anyone. I was afraid of that ridicule that often comes with these things. But as time progressed and I became more comfortable with who I was as an individual and what I'd experienced and that there were so many other goddamn people seeing these things, I became more comfortable. and I started to embrace it. And I think that's what a lot of people are doing now. These topics aren't as ridiculed any longer.

They're becoming more accepted. Even by the mainstream, I would say, in some respects, that's when you could not shut me up, dude. I started shouting it from the rooftops. Like, UFOs are real. I saw this. These people saw this. And it kind of just snowballed from there to the point now

where I will go out and seek people out and say, do not use a pseudonym when you come forward with this. Embrace it. You know, people are worried about losing their jobs or their, you know, their respect in their community. But if we have people hiding behind pseudonyms when they're having these experiences, it's not moving us forward in that acceptance, I think. So I'm all about transparency and just get that weird, bizarre shit out there because

that's what I'm really going to start listening. See, all that sounds like to me is that you didn't talk about it and then you became that really annoying guy who that's all you did. Oh my God. It was just talking. It was like everybody was probably like, man, Ryan watches like a couple episodes of X-Files and he's a real like molder over here. Oh my God, man.

My parents were so worried about me growing up. Trust me. But now they see that it is a topic that many people take seriously. And I could not ask for a better support system. If your parents can support you in becoming a euphologist, You know, you struck gold with the parentals for sure. Yeah, I mean, like how liberating of a feeling that must have been being able to, you know, not only write and release a book, but they start a podcast where you're able to, it's nice. I'm just glad that that 12-year-old boy was able to get all of this off of his chest and be able to embrace it and talk to other people, you know, because I can't imagine going through something, even whether or not it was, you know, no matter, even if it wasn't a.

abduction or anything like that. It was something that obviously meant a huge deal to you was frightening. And the fact that you're able to now embrace that and talk to other like-minded individuals about it who have had similar experiences, that's a really important thing. And you know, you're, you've gone and you're continuing to go above and beyond and helping, I'm sure, other people out, especially, you know, now with your podcast, younger people who are potentially having experiences now, being able to break free from thinking that they're going to be ridiculed and being able to talk to them. and having them being able to open up and talk to other people as well. I think so, Sammy.

And you make a good point, too, man, that even when it comes to the horror genre, this isn't, a lot of people don't look at this genre of films as important, as something to really ponder. It's just there for entertainment's sake or shock value, and that's it. But you and I and your listeners all know that I don't think there's another film genre out there that has more of a societal impact and commentary than the genre of horror. So I think it could definitely be said the same for what you do as well, that people are seeing that people like you, people like me, are into these things or normal, credible dudes, you know, for the most part. Yeah, yeah.

You don't give us too much credit, but. We all have things, yeah. But that you can comfortably talk about these things and find a deeper meaning behind them, you know. What I do isn't just about little green men. What you do isn't just about blood and gore. There's so much more to it, and there's so much more to be gleaned from that. And I think that's what's very important. And what ultimately brought you and I together.

Definitely. Well, and that's a really good segue into discussing, you know, getting into discussing the movie that we both watched and both have had a history with in the past, that being fire in the sky. How does it think? What makes it move? Why does it breathe?

Questions anyone would ask about a man if they'd never seen one before. So for five days, a man was borrowed. The story that Travis Walden and five other witnesses told was so unbelievable, so unimaginable, that it has become. become the most famous case of UFO abduction ever reported. Now, what exactly, how did you, when did you first watch this film? Like, do you remember the first time you ever did or how old you were or any of that? So this came out in, what was it, 93.

1990, 93, March 12th, 1993. Got it. So I probably saw it, I did not see it in theaters. I probably saw it a couple years after when it first hit, like HBO. or one of those stations. I remember I distinctly remember I was on vacation with a good buddy of mine in South Carolina. And it was on TV.

And the moment I saw this beam come down and hit this dude, I flipped out. I'm sure. Yeah. My friend is like, what the hell's going on with Ryan? He's like cowering in the corner. And again, it wasn't like PTSD or anything like that.

But the whole topic. of alien abduction was something I'd heard of but never really looked into even though I had a keen interest in the UFO phenomenon. That was one aspect that I kind of shied away from. It was very out there. It was terrifying

to think of. And then when I heard that this was based on a true story, dude, that was it for me. I did not want anything to do with this movie for as long as I could remember and it wasn't until many, many years later when I actually sat down and watched

the entire thing. Oh, wow. Okay. Yeah, I mean, that is, I mean, aside from your, you know, obviously your experience before you had it, you know, before you watch the film, well, actually, was it before? Uh, this, no, this was, okay. That's, okay. That's a lot better. It was pretty close, but it was after. Yeah. Okay. So, you know, at least my, my experience in this was, this is just one of those movies to where my dad, I, my dad would always, after all the kids would go to bed. My dad would then watch all of his movies out in the living room because it was stuff like horror movies or action movies, just stuff that you didn't want the kids to see, you know, so which means that those are the movies that your kids are going to sneak out of their bedroom

and they're going to hang out in the hallways and watch the movies without the parents knowing. So unfortunately, Fire on the Sky was one of those that I did that for. And I successfully sneaked out of my room and started watching immediately once he wasn't the, the abduction part, was the part where they were doing the experiments on him, which is still, it's a very, very shocking, very, very scary scene. And it, it honestly, like, even being a kid who was very interested in UFOs and all that sort of stuff and just weird stuff and horror movies, it really was the first movie that just screwed me up where, you know, after that for years, it was like, well, looks like I'm going to get abducted tonight. Every time you look that, it was like, I know. I know.

they're out there somewhere so let's get it over with one of those situations and it was one of those movies that was played a lot on hb o and cinemax and all the movie channels uh it like we had said it was released in march 12th 1993 it the budget was 15 million for it and it ended up making that back uh with 20 million dollars it made so it was you know and especially at that time you know it was not really it made the money back but no more idea not up to where they were like like super you know it that's it made probably made most of his money later on when they ended up like doing uh you know releasing it on DVD after all of the scarred children who watched it on HBO or something like that like eventually grew up and started loving it right wasn't by any

means like it was kind of like uh what was that movie that was based on um well communion right wasn't that the whitley streber movie did you ever watch that yes yeah what a weird strange movie dude like watch so yeah i mean the the the book is strange enough And I love that book. Again, Whitley Streber, one of the best horror novelists out there who had supposedly a genuine abduction experiences. But yeah. And then we got the movie version with Mr. Cowbell.

Yeah. Who just made it all that much more weird. So yeah. But yeah. You know, and the main difference between like a movie like Communion and a movie like Fire on the Sky is communion was interesting. and there were some very eerie, creepy parts, but not nearly as extreme as the very crazy scary parts in fire in the sky,

which I think goes to your point about fire in the sky really being not just a sci-fi movie, but more of like a horror sci-fi type of movie. Kind of like, you know another movie that would be really great in that category? Event Horizon. Yeah, yes, that's a very good comparison. Like, sci-fi movie, but damn, that movie is a horror movie. It's scary. It's gory.

it's like it's great that way I think so when you can cross genres like that you know you've done something right you're sort of pioneering a whole new genre and I think these two can interplay very well together sci-fi and horror they have many aspects in common we often fear the fiction that is soon to become science fact

and I think there's a lot to be said for that as well and you know in terms of fire in the sky what I think is the most horrifying aspect of this film based on a true story is that it was a true story and that there were witnesses, something like communion. This is, you know, one man's testimony of what happened to him. Whereas this, we have, what is it, four or five other people who were there,

seeing this happen, documented. I believe it was a group of six in the book version, but I think in the film version, they only, there was a group of five. Yes, I believe you're right. They put two people together, I think, for clear for sake. yeah but yeah no that and and like you said i mean yeah i mean you know the movie is scary enough but like once you realize or once you hear that it was based on a true story whether or not it you know like and we can talk about the differences between the book and the film regardless of how accurate it was to the true

story just hearing based off of a true story puts so much more fear in you watching it just wondering like what parts are based off of the true story and like what the hell you know so as as many i'm sure as both you know the listeners of your show or the listeners of my show would probably already know um fire in the sky is a book about the alien abduction or the abduction case of Travis walton who was a logger in uh snowflake Arizona in the mid 70s i believe of 75 um and him and his crew went up to do some i believe it was like clear cunning for the for on a government contract and they were in the White Mountains and near the end of the day, all the guys kind of got back into their truck

and were heading down from the mountain back home and they noticed like a strange color, strange kind of like light in the sky. Kind of, you know, looked like fire in the sky. Hey, what the hell is that? Maybe we should just turn back. That's got to be a fire. It's moving. I saw it.

It is a moving fire, baby. Look, man, is it? That's one monster forest fire. Yeah, fire my ass. That ain't no fire, man. What else could it be? What the heck is going on here? Are you screwing around?

No. Mike, maybe I do like Greg says and just pull over for a minute. No, Mike, only see what it is. Only one road out of here and we're on it. If that's a fire, we can't get around it. We're going to be spending the night out here. They drove towards it, you know, on the mountain road. and they saw a craft there,

and Travis was compelled to actually get out of the truck and to go underneath the craft. And once he kind of started to realize that this is crazy and why am I doing this, he decided to try to go back to the truck, but at that point he was struck by something that later the guys in the truck said that he was struck by a pale blue beam of light,

and they took off and he blacked out. after obviously how scary of a situation would that be as anybody in that truck like that you know and it's one of those things where both the book and the movie the fact that mike uh Travis's friend dropped everybody off and went back up to try to find Travis right after that happened by himself that shows how much that dude is like the toughest man in the world because I don't I F that you know absolutely yeah I mean that's it that's a true friend there like A lot of people fault the guys for leaving when this happened. But if you were in those men's shoes, I mean, they thought he was dead.

They thought, you know, the world was being invaded by aliens. Like, get the hell out of there. Yeah. What the hell are you stopping for? We left him there. He's dead, jackass. We got to go back. No way.

What are you talking about? No, maybe we do get me go back. No way. No way. No way. No. No, no. don't know that he's dead yet.

Get out of you. I'm going back. I'm going back. You don't want to go get out of the car now. I'll come pick you up later. You can't do this to us, man. Totally, you know, amazing that he had the bravery to go back and do that. But he did.

He didn't find, he didn't find Travis. So he came back down on the mountain. They eventually went into town, called the police. And basically, the police automatically, you know, they all go up back to the mountain again together with the police try to look around they don't find Travis so they just kind of assumed that there was either some sort of a weird accident or somebody killed Travis and they're all just kind of covering it up with this fake UFO story um Travis is what gone for a couple weeks or like seven to 10 days something like that yeah it was it was a good amount of time and enough time for really you know

news agencies from across the world to come into this small little Arizona town and for everybody in the community to really just kind of not trust and just blame this crew of people for killing this guy. I believe that they, well, they all took polygraph tests and everybody passed except for one member of the crew who it wasn't because of anything that happened, but he also had a warrant out for his arrest. So he kind of was not wanting to do the polygraph test to begin with. He wasn't very like, little on edge anyhow for dealing with the law and whatnot. But I believe later he did actually take a polygraph test later and did pass. So all of the crew had taken polygraph tests and passed them.

But Travis was still missing. They had a bunch of search parties go up on the mountain and try and find them and they couldn't. And then just one night, they get a call. Travis's brother, I believe, gets a call. And Travis is on the side of a road outside of town in a phone booth and has appeared. and basically says exactly the same story as the rest of the guys did to the police without ever talking to them at that point, correct? Yeah, that's correct, yeah. Everything that they said happened prior to him disappearing was 100% accurate with what they testified under these lie detectors.

So very interesting. And just that alone, just that story right there and not even going into what Travis talks about in the book or what the movie talks about afterwards, that's incredible enough. The fact that there is a man who gets hit by this beam of light from an unknown kind of craft and has disappeared for that long and then just shows up. I mean, that's a movie in itself. But as it turns out, and this is where kind of the book in the movie differ a little, in the movie we see that Travis is, he wakes up in a crazy kind of like ship type of thing to where there's, you know, he's like in a weird like embryonic bubble type situation.

and there's like dead bodies around him, which is frightening as well. And he gets out of this area and he like is kind of going around the ship and he finds these space suits that basically the suits themselves look like how a typical gray alien would look where it's like a jumpsuit with the big almond-shaped eyes and the larger head. That was really cool. I have to add. Yeah, man, I really love that part about it. I don't know. I mean, are you familiar with a lot of stories that involve that sort of thing where it's like, Like maybe the aliens themselves don't look like a gray, but it's like something in a suit that would look like a gray.

You know, Willie Streber has mentioned this in a few chapters of his books and in interviews that there was no facial expression, that these almost seemed like masks, that there was definitely something behind these emotionless grays, as it were. So the fact that this Fire in the Sky movie tackled this was really interesting to me. It wasn't something I'd really come across in any other abduction experiences before, is that these might be space suits. These might be how they can travel these vast distances through time and space to come and snatch our people up, man. It was pretty, pretty cool. Yeah, it was totally cool. It's a cool little, like, a part of it.

And basically what happens is when you find these suits, one of the aliens grabs him. And then it's kind of like a jump scene to basically, the most frightening, one of the most frightening scenes in movie history where he's drugged down a dirty hallway, which I don't know, like, I can accept that there might be extraterrestrials zipping around the universe, but like, I think that their ship would be a lot cleaner. Like, I feel like if they're sophisticated enough to figure out time and space, they also know, like, pledge and a vacuum. But it's like... That's a great point. It looks like the inside of a subway. Yeah. The aesthetic they choose.

for this part of the movie was a very bold choice. Again, you have to wonder whose decision this really came down to to make it so much different from Travis Walton's actual experience. Again, we'll get into that. But like you said, it looked very primitive, very cavernous, got these decaying bodies and these almost like cobweb haunted house-esque things throughout. I felt more like I was in Dracula's castle than some super advanced UFO. you know, traveling through space.

Well, you know, it was funny. Do you remember, you're right around the same age as me. Do you remember the video game Earthworm Gym? Yeah, absolutely. Okay, so these aliens look like Earthworm Jims, basically. And it shows them, like, basically carrying him through the ship or dragging him through the ship, and they put him on a gurney. And then they basically just start doing, like, the worst experiments on him where they're,

like, putting a needle in his eye and they're, like, lasering his teeth. And they have some sort of a weird, like, membrane over his... Oh, just like the scary and just like the visual like of, of just what's happening to him is just so shocking and like, just creepy as hell. And, you know, it kind of stops at that point and it kind of goes, you know, to him being back at home and like basically coming to grips, but with what happened and being just having PTSD and just being like stressed out to where he can't function very well as a normal human being for a while, which yeah, totally, you know. So I guess the difference between that part in what Travis actually says happened in the book is he did apparently come across a couple gray alien type-looking beings initially. But after being able to kind of fend them off with a long cylindrical kind of like tube sort of a thing, he's able to walk through a ship and eventually comes across what looks to be like a Nordic alien, a blonde hair. kind of like dazzling like gold eye kind of being who is able to relax him which uh you know a pair you know as as you and I both know seems to be a common kind of a thing where it may

totally make sense if you want somebody to calm down like show him a human looking thing like not a crazy gray alien or a lizard person you know like but he's basically brought into this kind of almost taken out of the craft and brought into a weird hanger that has different crafts in it and meets more of these humanoid-looking beings who end up putting a, like it almost looks like an oxygen mask, not attach anything over his mouth, and then he passes out that way and blacks out. I mean, there's other things that happen as well, but like when it comes to the actual meat potatoes of the alien experience, it's nothing shocking to him as far as being on a, like, basically like on a gurney and getting all these weird experiments.

It's mostly like seeing these weird beings at first, but then being comforted and brought into different areas by these more humanoid-looking beings. Yes. Yeah. His story does vary a lot from the movie. I guess let's look at the screenplay by Tracy Tourme. No, I've spoken to Torme personally and I've heard him on interviews, you know, even in Travis's book, he praises Tracy Torme for how truck. He was, you know, of Travis, that Travis was telling the truth that this all actually happened and vice versa, that Travis could trust Tracy with his story. Now, as time went on and more money was being put into this project by Paramount, you know, this stuff happens. We know this happens. That's Hollywood. And what ended up happening was Tracy wrote Travis's complete, accurate story into the screenplay. And then another movie came out where the grays were featured in this movie.

An abduction scenario occurred. And it was identical to basically what Travis had experienced. He tells Travis, we've got a problem. We've got a big problem. Oh, wow. The execs are, they're flipping out. Like, we need to do something here. How do we change this?

And the decision that they both came to, apparently, was let's focus more on what you were feeling at that time, Travis. You know, what you were going through your head? What, what were you feeling? And Travis, the one thing he kept coming back to was he felt both terrified and in almost like a suffocation. Like the room was, you know, getting smaller and smaller. And that he was, he was obviously terrified and felt helpless. So what they did is they went back to the screenplay. They eventually created this more horror aspect that we've seen and really took what he said.

that that fear and that feeling of suffocation and put that into it now Travis was not too happy with what they eventually came up with but he does say that the feeling is there what he felt is there on the screen and he thinks that's what's most important it's interesting well you know it that is actually very interesting I didn't know that I've watched I've I've been at a couple lectures that uh Travis has done about his experience and it seems like one was probably about four or five years ago the last one was a couple years ago. And it seemed like even just a couple years in between, he'd come to grips a lot more with how the movie portrayed it

and brought more of the movie scenes into his presentation. Definitely still went out of his way to explain the differences between the two and what was changed, but didn't really get into a lot of details of why it changed. So hearing that a little bit of that in the back, that what was going on in the background totally helps me to understand exactly how is, you know, like how he's feeling. I think so, man. That's a good point because instead of spending the rest of his life, you know, arguing what the movie did as opposed to what actually happened to him. Like you

said, he's come to grips and he's also had new revelations of, you know, that they, they didn't abduct him to do these horrific experiments, but that when he was shot with his beam, they did ultimately kill him and or injure him very badly. And that the reason they took him up into the ship, was to repair him. And that is fascinating to me. I heard him give this lecture this past February, where he said, I honestly think that the only reason that I was taken was they were going to fix the mistake that they had done to me. They did not mean to hurt me.

It was a defense mechanism. And that's that. So I think it's interesting that this case happened so long ago. He has never really wavered from his original story, but that he is still having revelations. It's fascinating to me. Yeah, just in general, I mean, Travis, Mr. Walton is a really, I was able to, at least one of the times that I saw him speak, I was able to meet him and chat with him very briefly. A really nice guy. Like, and, you know, he, you know, I grew up in pretty much, like, on the very west coast, northwest coast of Oregon, in the middle of nowhere, outside of a

little town called Astoria, our claim to fame was, that's where the movie Goonies was filmed. And what are, we have two, basically two types of work there, logging and fishing. And speaking with Travis, even just for a short amount of time, he's exactly the same type of guy that I, you know, like my uncles were, that my friends' dads were. They're like these kind of like very salt of the earth, straightforward guys that like, you know aren't going out trying to make up a story to get, you know, like, they're, they don't. want the attention. They're very much not those guys at all. And you can tell that anytime that you can tell that in reading his book.

You can tell that in going and see him speak and talking to him. And it makes me really appreciate the fact that they changed had to change the movie around, I like that because what it did is it created a scary, scary movie for me to grow up

to and enjoy. But it also gave me a different story, the real story, in the book that I also can sit back and read and enjoy too. So out of one experience, I got two great, great pieces, great things to me that I enjoy a lot out of. And I know that, you know, had he had his way, he probably would have just wanted his story out and, you know, had that, you know, what actually happened in the movie.

But he seems pretty like lighthearted at this point about the movie. And to the point to where I was like, hey, I just want to let you know, sir. like I really love your book and everything and I was just like I watched your movie when I was like five years old and I've been scarred since and he was like yeah I hear you I understand it wasn't fun for me either and I was like yep I was like I can imagine yeah oh you know it helped me to really appreciate both of the movie and the film that much more just being able to see him talk and be able to shake his hand and speak with him a little so I think so and I think so and The movie only got this case more exposure. And I do consider this one of the most credible abduction stories out there. Like you said, Travis Walton is – there's a lot of misconceptions about people who claim abduction experiences, first of all. They're all dumb hicks, you know, out in the woods. We hear this all the time, this cliche.

Now, Travis was a logger. Yes, he lived in a small town in Arizona. But this is one of the most intelligent people I've ever met, Sammy. Like you said, you got to talk to him as well. He is so damn smart. He is well-spoken. He is articulate. He is talented as hell.

The dude plays guitar like nobody's business. Oh, nice. He also doesn't age. And this is really weird observation. But the guy doesn't look a day over like 40. And he's like 6.8 now or something ridiculous. It's crazy. And you got to wonder, like, if they did repair him, these aliens.

They repaired him a little too well. A little too good. Yeah, yeah. But yeah, like you said, you can appreciate both aspects, both the movie and the book for different reasons. But what it comes down to, I think, is this is a case about alien abduction that will never go away. That has been tested and challenged time and time and time again. And it always comes up in every conversation of, oh, yeah, I honestly believe that happened to this guy. For anybody, like, and that's a thing like that, it's one of those, like you said, it's one of those stories that if you have people that find out, oh, you're into that sort of stuff, you're into, you know, UFOs and aliens or anything. It's the one case that one of the one cases you can be like, why don't you, like, if you're interested in any of this, read about this case. Read about the Travis Walton experience. And, and after that, if you're still interested, let's talk more because it's a really great, like, if a person is coming to you and in, they're in an honest way.

asking you about something and not just trying to give you shit about being into something, if they can honestly read or look into that and it doesn't interest them or it doesn't like strike them as, oh, this could potentially have happened or this, wow, there's a lot of, there's a lot of evidence. There's a lot of, you know, data to this. Then if you can't, if you can't jive with that, then you're probably not worth talking to for me at least, you know? Like, I can't do much better than that, you know, until until at some point an alien comes down and literally like shakes hands with people on national television, even then, I don't think anybody would really believe it. But, I mean, there's only so much we can do at that point with what we have in, in the, the cases

that we have. And, you know, one where you have so much info and in polygraph tests and all of that. And just like a really earnest and just quiet, soft-spoken, you know, man who I can imagine, now he's being able to actually go out and meet people and talk about an experience. But how hellish must his life have been in those years between the movie and stuff or people just either continue to think that this all was happening because they were trying to make money off of tabloids or any of that kind of stuff? Or the fact that everybody just thought he was crazy. You know, like nobody wants that.

No one would ever want that, you know? No one's going to think about the long game that much where it's like, well, I don't know. In about 30 years, I'm going to be able to talk. I'm going to be able to talk for free at a UFO convention. You know, it's like, no. No, first of all, well, you bring up two good points. The first one being the long game. Most of the people involved with this case, this ruined their lives.

You know, some became deeply depressed. Some became alcoholics. Some of them never spoke to Travis again. But they all remain steadfast that the story they told is what happened. The second thing is money. Obviously, Travis probably made a small bit of, dough off of the movie. Like that's sure that can't be debated. That's Hollywood.

They bought the rights to his story. Fine. But that's not going to last forever. And even when this case was happening, Sammy, Philip Klass, the known skeptic debunker, he was going around each of these dudes saying, look, we will pay you so-and-so amount of dollars to come forward and say that you've made this all up. Like, just get it over with now and we'll do that.

you know and we're talking like double digits here thousands thousands of dollars none of them took the money they all stuck to the story so that says something to me for sure that that this was genuine and that they so much was riding on them coming forward with this and that to this day every single one of them remains steadfast that this happened it's astounding to me there are so many abduction accounts out there that are complete and utter bullshit and i i can say that having interviewed hundreds and hundreds of people. They're either in denial or they are straight up hoaxers. But there are cases like this one where I just have to sit back and say,

what the hell is going on in this world that we truly don't know about? It's crazy. It keeps me up at night. Keeps me up drinking whiskey. Yeah. It's, I mean, it's unfortunate that something like this had to happen to anybody because, obviously, we would probably like nobody, well, I don't know, maybe there are people out there who totally want to go through this sort of experience. I would say, though, that, you know,

once you are in that position of potentially being abducted and whatnot, your attitude might change on that pretty quickly. Like, it's one thing to say, no, I would totally love to, to hang out or like be abducted and all that kind of stuff. I don't know, man, because even just, you know, obviously through your experience, through my experience, those were completely different from what Travis went through. And anything more than that, I'm not a fan of. I remember many, this John Mack, I believe, said this, the Harvard psychiatrist who wrote about alien abduction.

He said, alien abduction is a club that nobody wants to be a part of. And I believe that to be true. Like, people go, oh, I'd love to get abducted. Seriously, would you? Would you really want to live the rest of your life knowing something that no one else on this planet has seen? and that your privacy was invaded and you were examined and the fear of thinking or anticipating that it's going to happen again against your will is something I would never, ever want to deal with.

Yeah, no, I agree with 100% with you. And, you know, I'm just, I'm happy that we were able to get, you know, from this experience, we were able to get a really, really compelling and interesting book off of this. And also, you know, in getting a fantastic movie that I have. have enjoyed since childhood, even though most of the time it's been enjoying it in a terrified way. It's been one of those things where anytime somebody was like, hey, show me a scary movie, that's the one thing. You know, you can show people movies about zombies, movies about vampires. They're always going to, for the most part, just be like, well, okay, whatever, you know,

there's only so much you can believe in that. You show them fire in the sky. You show them an alien abduction movie that's potentially, you know, an alien deduction movie that's based off of a true story. That's the movie that's going to scare them the most because they don't know, you know, they can't say, well, this isn't real. That's a good point. And a lot of people at issue with the way the movie ended where, you know, Travis goes back to the site where this all happened and it's ambiguous what happens next. He goes there. He talks to his friend Mike and the movie ends. And a lot of people had problems with that. But I think it was a wonderful way to end this film is we don't know what's going to happen next. Travis doesn't know if this is ever going to happen to him again.

That to me would be the scariest part of all of it. You know, being him in a situation where it's like not having any idea if it's ever going to happen again. Like, holy shit, you know, that's crazy. Absolutely. And he's still searching for answers. At the end of the day, man, so are we. You know, we're going to constantly be looking for it. And I do, I'll say this.

I don't have any huge insider info, but I have heard that a remake is in the works of fire in the sky. I know we're sick of remakes at this point, but Travis will be much more involved in this. It'll be a more accurate portrayal of what happened to him. I also suggest anyone who wants to hear the true, accurate story about Travis, there's a wonderful documentary called Travis, the true story of Travis Walton. It was a terrifying experience. I thought we was going to go to jail for murder. That day, you know, we were a little behind, so we worked until we was starting to get dark.

We loaded up the equipment and hadn't done. driven very far when we caught glimmers of this glow coming through the tree. As he got closer, I heard the sound. One, the guy said, do you feel that? I really panicked then. And I told him, get the hell out of here. It didn't come directly to me. It came to a deputy sheriff.

Three, I was volunteered right away to tell him what had happened. Sheriff Kalesby definitely didn't believe it. He says that we better be certain because we get in a lot of trouble. When we went to search the next day, they split us up. And the whole time, the deputies asked me, you know, If you just tell us where the body is, we can all go home and get this over with. We're talking about 100 people. Combing through the wooded area, nothing turns up.

All week long, I've been hearing they're going to set it up to make you guys look guilty. We're a rough-looking bunch then. Some of us have been in trouble with the law before. Y'all ain't never going to come out of that jailhouse. Granny said, this is Travis. I'm back. I need help. When I did hear that he had been returned, it was almost as unbelievable as the original thing.

I just looked at my mom and said, I told you we didn't kill him. Travis Walton reappeared after several days with a bizarre story about a ride in an unidentified flying object. People were desperate to explain it away. Why are you sticking up with Travis for all this time? You know this really didn't happen. What happened to Travis after we took off in that truck? I can't tell you. I hated Travis for a long time after this.

My whole world just tore up. But I believe every word Travis said about it, he's never lied to me about nothing. It's a net negative. We lost our jobs in the immediate aftermath. And now you're not able to talk about it with anyone because you know that they're going to laugh at you. They're going to look at you like you're crazy. But if you don't come out and tell your story, somebody else is going to tell it for you. There's a degree of responsibility.

Certainly, I have to accept the bad. If I can direct what's happened in a way that I can make something good happen in the world, I'm looking for it. Have you seen this? Yeah. You know, unfortunately, I haven't. They screened at a conference that I usually go to, and I wasn't able to make it at that point. And I haven't been able to really find much about it online recently. I have a website for your listeners here.

It's Travis slash walton.com. Check it out. It's awesome. A lot of new evidence about the case. They went back and they found all this weird stuff around the trees where this supposedly happened. Really fascinating. You hear from the gentleman who gave the lie detector tests.

You hear from the sheriff who was such a skeptic at first and what he thinks about the case now. Really interesting. All these people coming forward who haven't spoken about this in a long, long time, including members that were there that night. So definitely check that out if you get a chance. Yeah, I've been, I've, I was bummed out that I missed it. And, and that's, that sounds, that sounds great. He, the last time I saw him speak, he was, that was actually about to come. That was right around the time that it came out.

So he was talking about it. it made it sound very compelling so definitely going to have to check that one out totally hey well i'll tell you one thing whenever if if that new movie comes out if that remake comes out we're going to be talking about it absolutely and i'm going to hold you to that so well dude it was so awesome to be able to talk to you in general just about everything but you know fire in the sky and just like your experience and all that kind of stuff and you know it's it's it's it's been really it's been a really great evening for me just being able to kind of talk about some of this stuff because I don't have a lot of friends that I can really that are really interested in this sort of stuff.

So a lot of the times I'm very much interested in it, but I just have to basically read my books on it. Horror and aliens, UFOs, all that, in paranormal, all that stuff. For whatever reason, I'm usually that one guy in the group of friends who, that's my thing, you know. So I kind of like, it's what I'm into. I enjoy the heck out of it, but I don't really have an opportunity to really talk. in detail or in depth about these things. So it really was awesome to be able to talk to somebody who is also as interested, if not more

interested in it and really can provide a lot of really cool information as well. Oh, thanks, man. Well, you know, the feeling is mutual. I don't have many I can talk to about horror movies. I've always been obsessed with them. I'm so glad I found your podcast. I am eating it up like crazy. And yeah, dude, we, this is what it's about.

I think it's a great idea to get these different genres of podcasts to get to hash it out, to introduce new people to these questions and these interests we both have. And yeah, it's been a huge honor and a pleasure talking to you tonight as well. Where can people find your book, your podcast, all that good stuff? All my stuff can be found in one crazy hub. That's Somewhere in the skies.com. The book's on Amazon, paperback, an ebook. And, yeah, podcast is right at somewhere in the skies.com as well.

And how about for you, my man? For me, it's pretty much the same. Just Google hell horror program. The podcast is on iTunes. It's on Stitcher. Pretty much on every different social media platform, whether it's Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, all of it. Try to keep it as available.

I don't, now, granted, I don't update it as much as Ryan as you do. Because, you know, apparently, you know, some of us have to work, okay? Come on. Some of us have to work. Some of us has to watch movies and make dinner for ourselves. We can't just be sitting on our computer and our phone all the time doing updates. Oh, I see how it is. All right, all right.

But I try to keep stuff as updated as possible. But, yeah, like, no matter what, you love the book. Awesome. Love the podcast. So great to talk to you, dude. You as well, Sammy. Keep your feet on the ground, man, but never stop searching somewhere in the skies. Right on.

All right. That is it for this week's episode. Be sure to check out both of Sammy's podcasts, the Howl Horror Program and the Back to Life podcast. They're both available. on all podcast outlets and at back to lifepodcast.com. I want to once again thank a few people for donating to Somewhere in the Skies. To Cindy, Sean, and to an anonymous donor,

your contributions help the show to continue running and grow by leaps and bounds. The show is free to consume always, but not to create. So any donations are welcomed and appreciated more than you know. To donate, go to Somewhere in the skies.com and click on the donate. tab. Please also consider rating and reviewing the show on iTunes. It helps us move up in the featured podcast sections and helps gain new

listeners. If you'd like to share your story on the show or have guests and topic suggestions, please email me at Sprague at somewhere in the skies.com. I'll see you next Monday. And remember, keep your feet on the ground, but never stop searching somewhere in the skies. This has been a third kind production.

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