Somewhere in the Skies - Saying Goodbye to Our Strange Skies

Episode Date: July 21, 2024

On episode 365, we say goodbye to one of the most celebrated UFO-themed podcasts of all-time, Our Stange Skies. Joining Ryan is special guest co-host, Steve Berg, and the one and only Rob Kristoffersen. Rob explains why the podcast has come to a fitting conclusion, shares some of his favorite episodes, guests, and topics, and then takes us for a fun, emotional, and well-deserved stroll down memory lane. It's a day many listeners, including Ryan, wished would never come. But it's a day that we celebrate the incredible body of work by Rob "Clown Pants" Kristoffersen, as we continue to search for answers to the UFO phenomenon, somewhere in our strange skies. Follow Rob Kristoffersen on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/yerufoguy/ Follow Steve Berg on Twitter: https://x.com/Bergmaster5000 Patreon: www.patreon.com/somewhereskies PayPal: [e-mail] Website: www.somewhereintheskies.com Store: http://tee.pub/lic/ULZAy7IY12U YouTube Channel: CLICK HERE Order Ryan’s new book: https://a.co/d/4KNQnM4 Order Ryan’s older book: https://amzn.to/3PmydYC Twitter: @SomewhereSkies Read Ryan’s Articles by CLICKING HERE Opening Theme Song, "Ephemeral Reign" by Per Kiilstofte Produced by LIONSGATE Copyright © 2024. Ryan Sprague. All rights reserved. Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/somewhere-in-the-skies. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is Somewhere in the Skies with Ryan Sprague. Welcome, everyone, to Somewhere in the Skies. I'm your host, Ryan Sprague, and this is going to be a special one for me, personally. Today we're going to be talking not about somewhere in the skies, but the farewell to our strange skies. My favorite UFO podcast of all time. So obviously, who better to talk about it with than the host himself, Rob Christofferson. We will have Rob coming in in just a minute. But before we do that, I also couldn't think of a better special co-host to join me today. This was a show that he

and I both connected on, both fanned out, nerded out over every episode. And that's the one and only Steve Burke. So right now I'm going to bring in my good buddy, Steve Berg. What's that my man? Buddy, what's going on? What an honor to be here, talking about our buddy or another buddy throwing out a lot of buddies are off the bat. A lot of buddies today. Yeah, a lot of buddies. Good old Robert Christofferson, man. I love that guy and I love his show. So this will be so fun. This is going to be super fun. I know you and I

you know, we always used to talk about like what Rob was doing and whenever a new episode came out. We'd both be sharing them, retweeting. But not only that, like, learning. And I think that's what's most important. I'm going on almost 400 episodes now. However, like that pales in comparison to the rich history and knowledge that someone like Rob has brought to this topic and to my show. He's probably one of the most prolific guests I've had on my show personally. So yeah, man, I'm super excited for this. Yeah. I mean, like I really like there's, you know, there's a lot of people I put in these groups who have documented UFO history or documented certain aspects of ufology.

But Rob really, I mean, if you want to, like, he's done a lot for documenting uphology, but like really in terms of like honing it down, there's two people I can think of who've kind of done, it's like, Rob Christofferson and Alba Rosales are the humanoid kings. Without the work of these two gentlemen, like I think so many of these wonderful stories would be lost. And to me, they're so important. They're some of the most, it's what I love about UFOs and like, you know, monsters and aliens. and some stuff, they seem to capture it so well. So this is, this is great to celebrate Rob is, I, you know, I'd rather be nowhere else. Absolutely, man.

Well, should we waste no more time? Should you bring them in? I think so. Awesome. Awesome. So here he is guys, the one and only. Rob Christoperson. Welcome, buddy.

How long are we going to make it into this thing before I cry or one of us cries? I don't know if we're going to be able to make it through this entire thing. That was the plan, brother. But we're going to try. Honestly, it's a huge honor to be here with both of you. Especially you, Ryan, because I think early on, you've definitely helped boosted me up when I started Our Strange Skies. I was a guest before the show had even started on your podcast. And if that hadn't happened, I don't know that our Strange Skies would have become what it became.

but you were one of the earliest supporters and, you know, I definitely owe you a lot for that and much appreciated. And Steve, man, like the friendship that has developed through this, like,

the great thing about for friendship is like, we'll just be randomly texting and most of the time it's about food. Yeah. It is, it is. The sign of a true friendship. It is that.

Or look at this poop I did today. Exactly. Yeah, no, I'll get a, Rob and I will test each other. It's like, Rob, I'm trying out this new sauce. Now, I'm not sure if it's going to be good. And then we'll give each other tips. I'll like, well, maybe try a little more garlic. And we both really like food a lot, but we both love to cook and have a deep appreciation for it.

So beyond UFOs. Yeah, I mean, yeah, it's a beautiful thing. well Rob I mean did you owe me nothing we owe you everything man like there's a reason I had you on in the early days

and I remember that I remember that episode is clear as day men in black and I was a topic I hadn't really broached on the show at that point and I just remember like kind of following your trajectory

even before you started your podcast being like man this guy it's just like a wealth of knowledge I'm like, where has he been? My whole UFO life. And then we became, you know, friends and we hopped on each other's shows all the time. Like I said, I think you've been the guest on my show more than any other.

I had a special series that I did with you called the UFO Happy Hour, which I am considering this one of those as well today, gentlemen. Because today's not a day to mourn. It's a day to celebrate. And look, I listened to your last episode. and we'll get more into this, but like you're not, it's not like you're disappearing off the face of the earth. I kind of want to start from the beginning.

Steve, you probably know this story as well as I do, but I would like our audience to know what the origin of all of this is, maybe where you're interested, the topic really started. And then what in the hell, man, made you decide to be a dumbass like me and start a UFO podcast? Oh, man. UFOs just kind of always hovered in the background when I was a kid. Because growing up in the 80s and the 90s, that's kind of the heyday of UFO culture on television.

Like, it was huge on television. Roswell became a household name when I was like six or seven years old through Unsolved Mysteries. That's where it really got its legs. and, you know, there were a lot of programs, you know, especially on like Fox. Fox was producing a lot of programs. There was like Discovery Channel programs about that stuff. I remember specifically watching a program about crop circles. And there was that infamous video going around of that guy who was like not even freaking out as he's watching a crop circle being formed in the field.

You know, it was debunked and stuff. But it was just like, wow, look at this happening. It's like, dude, come on. You should be freaking out. You should be freaking out right now. But they always just kind of hung out there. My origins in all of this is really more ghost hunting and stuff like that.

That's really where I got started. And for a number of years, from about 2007 to 2017, so for a good 10 years. So for a good 10 years, that's really what I devoted myself to. And then lo and behold, I'm at work one day in June of 2015. And I had this UFO sighting with my friend Dennis. We're just hanging out out on a break at like 10 o'clock in the morning. And, you know, the infamous giant egg. It's hovering in the sky before us.

this huge white egg and he's not interested in it, but I am. But we watched that thing for a couple minutes before a departed. But like after that, after that sighting, my interest was just like Pete. And I just started buying books like crazy. I think the first book that I remember buying was intruders by Bud Hawkins. And if you listen to me Talk about Mott Hopkins. You know how I feel about that.

Hell yeah. The irony is thick there. It is. It is. So I have the worst introductions to the subject because the stuff that I gravitated to was those books and Hanger 1 on a street channel.

Hell yeah. Here's the thing about Hanger 1 and what I will say about it. Yeah, there were a lot of BS cases mixed into that stuff and there were a lot of like really hokey things that they put on that program but there are also a lot of important sightings important historical cases that came through sure they're throwing that up against phil schneider you know and his crazy crap happening in dulcay and um you know the uh mj 12 doctors i think the most stunning thing about that program was seeing how linda moulton howe actually had a copy of the

Psalm 101 manual me. And if you know anything about Psalm 101 manual, it was, it was like an MJ12 document that came out in the 90s. And, you know, it's on photo negatives. So she has it recreated from photo negatives. It's like, oh my God, what are we doing here? She really went all out, man. She really did.

She really did. Before 2015, when I was in college, I actually flirted with UFOs, a little bit more. I don't know where the interest came, but I started reading and I've never told this story before, so you're getting an exclusive story here.

I was in college, and I was stay, my dormie was this like, I don't know, kind of genius kid who was, I don't know, 10 years younger than me, so it was an interesting dynamic, but I was reading Whitley Streeper's

communion at the time, and this was also at the time when the fourth kind, was released and that movie just scared the living hell out of me. But there was a moment when I was like, I just like woke up one day in the dorm room. And I look over and it's the silhouette against my roommate's bed. And it's and it looked like a giant alien. head. You could see the neck. You could see, but like, think

of like, you know, like a bobblehead. If you want to imagine something that's exaggerated for an alien head, which is already huge as it is. I'm like, what the heck is making the shadow? And then so all of a sudden, it kind of turned

and looked at me. And I was like, oh, I'm done. I'm done. I took, I took my copy of, of, uh, communion and threw it the trash. I didn't know what it was. I had no clue what the heck that I saw. But it was like,

it was just very weird, just this silhouette, this shadow of, it wasn't three-dimensional or anything. It's just this shadow against his bedspread. And I'm like, what the heck is wrong with me?

So I tossed the trash. And then it was like four years later. I had that UFO sighting. And then from there, I just researched my, butt off and they started making friends with podcasters and started suggesting cases that they could cover and some of them started to cover them and I'm like, well, all right, seems viable enough.

There's really, there's not a lot of people in the UFO game except for you at the time, really, like there really wasn't anybody else in that UFO game. And so I, it's like, yeah, we'll just start it. And then, uh, dropped the first episode, New Year's Eve, 2017. I was going to do it New Year's Day, but I'm like, eh, I'll just, I'll just post it. Because I, for a long time, I was very willy-nilly about what I wanted to post things. I just like throw it up and I want to throw it up. And, um, yeah, and then it became 167 episodes worth of stuff.

Right. Right. Well, and I assume, I assume Steve will be back. We lost. Let me check. Let me see if he message me or anything. Oh, that's so weird. Yeah, right. He just like disappeared. Oh, okay.

Internet went out trying to reset. Oh, bummer. Okay. Well, we'll just keep going. We'll just keep going. Yeah. So 167 episodes, man. Like, that's nothing to scoff that.

I mean, most podcasts don't make it past like five episodes. Let's be completely honest. when they realized like, oh, this is much more work than I ever anticipated. That's my first question for you. When you first started the show, I don't know about you, but like, I luckily had a mentor. I had been working with Shannon Legrow of Into the Fray, and she really helped me along the way, like taught me what equipment to buy and how to record and, oh, you can't just, like, record it and then put it up on the internet. like you need to host your audio somewhere and edit all this stuff.

So what was that like when you first started? Was it kind of like deer in the headlights? Or did you feel like you had a pretty good grasp of how it all worked on a podcasting level? My mentors were Scott and Forrest Philbrook from Astonishing Legends. I had started in their astonishing research core. And I didn't really research a lot for them, but we struck up a really. good friendship and a lot of

their mentoring, I ended up doing like a Zoom call with them one day while they were grabbing lunch at a restaurant somewhere and they were just kind of giving me tips on certain things, but most of it I figured out on the fly, especially the editing

portions and stuff like that. But when you really get into it, like if you use a program like Audacity, it's very easy to use. Like podcasting is one of the easiest art forms to actually take up. But it does require a certain skill set after a certain period of time if you want something that's a little more professional. But a lot of it I learned on the fly. And the initial concept that I had for our strange guys is very different from

what it became. In my mind, what I wanted to do was like Dan Carlin hardcore history type like releases where I would release seven hours worth of audio like every so often because I'm like I'm someone that likes to spend a decent amount of time with whatever I'm researching and a lot of time in podcasting you don't get that you have like at most like a week to spend with something unless you're you know can stretch it out into something longer but uh Needless to say, that didn't happen. And the very first few episodes of that podcast were, I think you can see kind of the bones of what it became.

But like, there's definitely a lot of amateur kind of kind of stuff going on. Like, I remember sitting on my bed recording the first episode. And like my first dumb move was thinking I could get. it all in one take without any mistakes. Oh, yeah. I know that feeling. Yeah, like that bravado. And like, eventually you're just like, oh, it's easy. It's just the easy cuts here and there.

No big deal. But like, like, I went from there to like, I was barely awake for the last episode. I was, I had it all written out and stuff. I was like, it's raining. I want to record it today. So I was like, let's, let's have some ambience. So like, you can hear like. There's a ton of rain pouring at the beginning of that episode.

You can hear it in the background. But it kind of started, it kind of ended where it started, which is pretty amazing, you know. Full circle, man, full circle. Well, let's, I guess, talk a little about that. You know, when I downloaded that last episode, episode 167, am I correct? Yes. Yep, there it is right here.

UFO abduction at Mirosol. Yeah. Yeah. Fantastic episode. But then at the end, I, like many others, were a little surprised when we heard that this is going to be the final episode. So before we kind of get in down memory lane and talk about some of the good, the bad, and the ugly of our strange skies. what brought this decision on? I'm sure there's not one huge sweeping answer.

What brought this on? And what made you finally decide? This is kind of it for me. You're great at protecting your data, but lots of places could still expose you to identity theft. I thought it was safe. If that happens, LifeLock gives you a U.S.-based restoration agent who will stick by your side from start to finish.

Phone calls, filing documentation, preparing insurance claims your agent handles it all in fact we're so confident restoration is guaranteed pour your money back isn't it nice to have someone like that on your side save up to 40% your first year at lifelock dot com slash spotify terms apply a lot of it has to do with me finding my identity and me choosing what i want to be uh maybe not known as but what I want to do. And like, when I started thinking about bringing this podcast back after the episode I released in December, I was like, man, I really want to write a book.

Like, that's always been in my head somewhere, somehow. But for me, I can't do two things at once. I can't make a podcast. and research that stuff. And initially I thought about kind of tying the two together, like researching them both at the same time. But it just, for me, my brain couldn't handle it. It got to the point where whenever I'd pick up a UFO book,

I would fall asleep. I couldn't read it. And even now, with some of them it's tough. It was kind of a slog to write that last episode. I had done the research months before. I had read the book, which here's what I'll say about most books about singular cases, especially when they have to do with abductions.

They're very boring, especially the one that I was reading, because it was like, here's the dad. here's here's like the story and then it's the breakdown of the um hypnosis sessions and it's like i don't think you need to do that you can just streamline it uh if there's anything special to kind of like um bring out of that you can do it but uh that in and of itself was like a slog to even think about it's like okay you gave me the basic details there's not much else i'm learning from the story through this. So I think first and foremost, if you're ever going to write a book about a

singular case, don't just give us transcripts of like hypnosis regression. It is, it is the worst. It is the worst. But, you know, I don't shy away from saying this. And I made a point at the end of the episode. But back in February, my cousin took his own life. And after that, I wasn't sad. And this is the weirdest, weirdest thing to me. And maybe it's, you know, I've, I've been to a fair amount of funerals for family members. Like, it's kind of like an old hat for me to a certain extent. But I had never had a family member do that. And after that, I just kind of started questioning what I wanted to do in life, the things that I wanted to give my time to.

Because I think that's incredibly important is to give yourself to things that bring you joy that you enjoy doing, that gives you some sense of fulfillment. and the podcast wasn't doing that anymore. And the thing about it is, you can tell a myriad of stories over and over again. And there's a lot of interesting stories that I never got a chance to tell. But I told the bulk of the ones that I really wanted to. And it just kind of made sense to end it

because ending it would be better than going on continuing to tell like story after story after story and like I've seen I've seen friends take and stretch stories out to like multi-part series

that have no business being multi-part series like I'm not going to drop names but you know if you know the groups that I run in you know you're talking to and I love those guys but I'm not I'm not dropping shade or anything on them, but it's just like, it can kind of swallow you up. And I, you know, the idea of identity, really who I am, is this what I want to be my entire life if I am not getting any kind of fulfillment out of it. So it wasn't an easy decision by any means.

I hadn't been doing anything anyway. but it just felt right to, you know, do one final episode and say, you know, I'm done. I can't do it anymore. I have other things that I want to try, other things I want to do. And, you know, I'm sure part of it's, you know, the fact that I'm in my 40s now, you know. So I call this time of my life, I call it. the back nine, you know, because you need some kind of golf reference, you know. Of course, man.

We're getting up there. We got to use golf references. Exactly. I respect that. So, you know, I, I just wanted to, I want to try something different. And for me, it's not even that I want to try. I'm going to do it. Like, it may take a while to, you know, write the book that I want to do,

especially since, like, I need a decent amount. of like rest. Like I started reading more since that last episode. I had to stop because I gave myself ice cream. Gosh. Yeah. But like, like just like the freedom of being able to do things like that,

like reading and stuff like that. Because when you start doing this and podcasting is hard to make. to something sustainable. It's one of the easiest art forms to do, but it's one of the hardest to actually make, not necessarily a living, but something substantial enough to keep you going.

You know, the audience is always going to be there, and the audience will always, you know, give back. I appreciate the audience. But it is so hard to, you know, make any kind of live, of being off of this. It's not easy. And for me, it only, it's gotten harder and harder as I've lost. I've lost a fair amount of listeners. I know I have, which is fine, you know. I get that people, you know, kind of age out of things or, you know, stop listening and stuff like that. But if it's not bringing you fulfillment, there's no point in doing it. So, yeah, I just made that decision to

walk away and I'm good with it. I'm happy with it. Yeah. Sorry. I didn't mean to enjoy it. No, no, you're good. I'm just like, I'm happy, you know, which is at the end of the day, that's the most important thing in life is to be happy. Absolutely. And, you know, to find joy in whatever you can find joy in. And if something's not bringing you joy, like get it out of your life. You don't need it. Yeah. Yeah, man. I mean, I and look, like, there's no real way around it. Like, I felt the same way a few months back. I just up and quit for about two and a half months. I gave no warning. And, you know, a part of me to this day will always question, oh, maybe I should have like said something to my audience and people who have been supporting me for years and listening every week. Like, I at least. owe them, you know, sort of an explanation. But I was going through a lot in my personal life.

Like you, I've lost a parent very recently. And I had a lot going on. And when you try to fit something like flying saucers into your life when, you know, you have other things to worry about, jobs, relationships, literally just surviving day to day, it does become hard to be like, how can I sit down and dedicate, you know, 12 hours to writing the next episode for the next week? And it became very challenging. And that's why I respect that you knew that it was no longer bringing you as much joy as it used to. And now it's time to try something new.

Within the span of those two months I took off, you know, I started doing paranormal investigation, something I'd never done before. And I was so out of my element and I was having such a, I wouldn't say like a fun time because it can be pretty terrifying at times and a little unnerving. But it just like, it showed me parts of myself that I never knew were there. And it was good to feel challenged again. So when I say I can relate, I mean that. I mean that in so many different ways. And, you know, the beauty of this is the UFO topic's not going anywhere. It never has.

We're no closer to answers than we ever have been before. And there is such thing as UFO burnout. And I'm feeling it. I know other UFO podcasts are feeling it. Numbers are down dramatically across the board. I put a tweet out today. This is July 15th we're recording this. And I said, hey, podcasters, is it just me?

Like, does my show suck? Or is everybody experiencing a real big law and downloads? And everyone said, no, man. Like, it's down drastically. So this happens. Like, the interesting UFOs, ebbs and flows. And I really respect that you, instead of just kind of being like, uh, you know, I'll just put something out there just to put it out there. You said, no, I'm not going to do that to my listeners.

Um, and I'm not going to do that to myself. Um, you know, I always look at something like Breaking Bad. Like they knew when that show was going to end and they ended on their own way instead of drawing it out 11 seasons like the X files. Right. Exactly. Like, I think the best example of that is supernatural. Like, you could watch the first five seasons and call it quits and you don't need another thing. And that's how I kind of see that show because I used to be a huge fan of it. But there is the, you know, the idea of like just stretching yourself thin, just going on and on and on and on.

And in this world where it seems more about quantity than quality most of the time, especially in the podcasting game, let's not say that everybody is like that, but like content creation requires you most of the time to be putting out stuff like constantly. And with podcasting, it is, it's a free form of consumption. It is, it's, it's free. And I don't, I'm not trying to shame anybody or anything, but like, I don't think necessarily that if you're, if you're, you know, wanting to do this seriously, that podcasting is like the, the easiest form.

And I, and I've ranted about this, uh, a lot. The ones that are going to make money at this now are basically celebrities. They're the ones that are going to come. come in because they have that following that they can bring to a podcast. Like, I listened to my brother, my brother, and me, and they talked about, like, hey, we've been struggling to find new advertisers. And, like, they're a main staple of this thing. And to me, that kind of means that I think podcasting has kind of hit its nexus where

advertisers were willing to throw their dollars. So the only other option that you have is Patreon. And the thing is about Patreon is. like, I can't really put it in a better way. You kind of have to whore yourself out for your support in many ways. And again, I'm not trying to insult anybody that consumes Patreon content. Oh, and one thing that I will update y'all on. I actually, I pulled my Patreon.

And the reason that I pulled my Patreon is because I was struggling financial. for a little bit there. And now I'm not, like, within the last week. Like, by the time this episode comes out, I'll be debt-free completely, which is, for me, an incredible thing, because I've never been now. So I don't really need it. So I can kind of just do my thing. And there's a part of me that feels guilty for that, because it's just like, yeah,

there were people that supported me, and I appreciate that. them, you know, endlessly for the support that they've shown me. But at a certain point, when does that become like a people-pleaser aspect that you kind of need to divorce yourself from? Because again, like that urge to never want to leave anybody hanging, but also I need to live my life. And I need to be away from this thing. And I think in order to kind of devote myself to something else. I kind of need to really divorce myself from it entirely. So I'm happy that I'm able to do that. If anything, I might be posting stuff on the website from time to time essays and stuff because, you know, that's really going to be the tool that I use to kind

of hone the writing because I've never been a really strong writer. So it's a challenge for me. Now I have to really devote myself to figuring out how to do that in a voice that is uniquely my own, in a style that I want to do. And such, and poor Steve in his internet. Oh, no, did you hear from him? Yeah, guys, if you're listening to this, Steve Berg was here. He is having some Wi-Fi issues. Yeah, so hopefully we'll get him back at some point.

But if not, we will try John. No, Steve desperately wanted to be here. So internet gods, please throw them at a bone. Seriously, cut Steve a break. Let him on the internet for a little while. We want to talk. Let the poor man on AOL. Come on.

Yeah, seriously. Well, you know, before we get Steve back, Rob, I did want to give you kind of the time to just explain it as much as you wanted on why you decided to make this decision. If there is anything else you want to say about why you decided to end it, please feel free. But otherwise, man, we're just going to go back down memory lane. So yeah, if there's anything else you want to sort of say about the farewell, be my guest. Yeah, like, to be honest, it's an episode. It's not the ideal episode that I want. wanted to release.

And if you listen to it, you can kind of hear how tired I am. And it's tired from a lot of different things. But, you know, there's a, there's a solid story there. The initial ending that I had that I recorded, I felt bad about it because it wasn't nearly as, it wasn't nearly as long. It didn't go into nearly as depth. and I'm someone that likes to try and be as vulnerable as I can and as honest as I can about what I'm doing. So then I was a couple hours later. I re-recorded it.

And honestly, I think the last 12 minutes are probably the best of the episode. But I, I'm happy with it. it. I'm happy enough with it to where I don't need to give into this people pleaser aspect of myself that I've always kind of had. I've always kind of been one of those people that gives of themselves very freely. And in the time that I stepped away from the podcast last year to now, my views on UFOs have changed for tremendously. I've become a very much more spiritual person. I read tarot now and I never used to do that. I, you know, my interests are a little more wide ranging now and my beliefs on the topic are, you know, that much greater. And I think they have a depth to them that they haven't had before because I think my biggest,

it's great these days with the people that are in my kind of side of things. Like the way that I look at UFOs, there are the people of the now who are interested in, you know, the Pentagon stuff and

the A-Tip stuff and all that stuff. And then there's the people who are interested in all the stuff before. I put myself into that camp and not that I'm saying there aren't people in both, but at the same time. But I think even when you're in that camp and you start to see things, it's like, well,

I kind of feel like they got to a point and they're like, well, it's got to be aliens, interdimensional creatures and, you know, maybe a few other things. And I think a lot of people, after reading like Keel and valet, they're like, well, interdimensional, but makes sense. I was like, but does it? Does it really? Because to me, it doesn't make sense either. Because it's like, well, you know, the people talk about ascribing, you know, human characteristics to aliens.

But it's like, why would you do the same thing to interdimensional beings? That doesn't make any sense. And again, when you read these cases and I bring this up all the time, like, the actions of these creatures are not far out of the realm of humanness. but they're different enough to where they stand out. So to me, it doesn't scream interdimensional creatures either because,

again, that, that just kind of, I feel like it gives them this like omnipresent, I'm a godlike being type of thing to them where they're kind of this all-powerful thing. but it doesn't make sense to me either. So, like, my beliefs have evolved a lot. Like, and I'm, like, reading a lot of different things.

Like, for instance, philosophy, I think you can get a lot of insight into this topic by reading people like, you know, Camus and Sartra and a lot of different existential and absurdist philosophers and stuff. I think you can, at the end of the day, look at the humanness within this phenomenon and see yourself in it more so than seeing an external experience outside of the realm of possibility. So, you know, I've just gone through just kind of just a big transformation. So, yeah, if you listen to that last episode and you hear and you think I'm tired, I am tired. Your brain's on overdrive, man, in so many different ways. But see, that's what's cool.

You can take this entire run of the Our Strange Skies podcast and have learned from it evolved in your thoughts and your beliefs, which I think is huge. My thoughts and beliefs change from week to week when I have an interview with someone. I would say in doing my show, I become more skeptical than anything. I become much more skeptical of everything having to do with UFOs. But there's a reason that I personally, this isn't speaking about you or anyone else who has a UFO themed podcast, I personally still have a ways to go, I think, in terms of what I want from this topic, what I want for my personal pursuit and journey with it. But who's to say? How long I'll keep going either. But yeah, I think that's so cool that like your thoughts and beliefs have evolved.

as you've done the show. And I guess to kind of play off of that, let's go back a little ways. Now, you know, at least for me, when I first started my show, I tried to stick to the basics, like men in black, flying saucers, you know, kind of the buzzwords in uphology.

And then you really start to kind of veer off into a lot of different areas and cases even. So I guess take us back to the early days. Does anything really stand out in, let's say, like, the first, I don't know, let's say like even 50 episodes of the show. Any huge, like, profound things or memories you have of recording or guests you've had or topics even? I know that's a huge broad question. Anything really come to the forefront with that? Yeah, the original conceit of the podcast was going to be very Ameri-centric, which is terrible idea.

The original theme song for the podcast did a very rock and roll kind of feel to it and stuff. And I think after probably about the first 20-some-odd episodes, I'm like, oh, this is really dumb. Like the one review that I actually got of my podcast and anything, it was in 14 times. And the one comment that they had is like, it's a little American-centric, but, you know,

it's a pretty good podcast otherwise. And it always amazed me how the most popular episode that I had for the longest time, it was technically called Episode Zero. And, you know, the title of it is like a, Bob Seeger pun and I'm like do people love Bob Seeger? Like is this

everyone loves Bob Seeger? Yeah. But it always amazed me how some of the earliest episodes were kind of the most popular ones. I remember being really proud of

I think they were officially episode one and episode two which were called the minutes of our mythology. And it was about the dawn of the modern saucer age from 47 to like the tail end of 48. And I always loved how I kind of broke those episodes down. I had help with those episodes and research from some friends and stuff.

But I think very early on, I was basically kind of trying to. hit the main cases that I could. But there were moments that I really had fun with because I had a lot of like many episodes in between the longer ones. And that was when I released the Joe Simonton Space Pancakes episode, which is just like a like a short 10, 12 minute thing. Because it, it, those cases are always like, fascinating and I think they're kind of what led me down the greater like humanoid rabbit hole. It's just like weird encounters like that because they don't make sense. Like

UFO lands on your property. They want water and they'll give you some greasy pancakes in return for it. Like the exchange program is, uh, is amazing. And um, yeah, about those, about those first, uh, 50, um, I think I started to really, kind of hone what I wanted it to be once I got into probably about the 20s or so. There was a period of time when I stopped doing the podcast after my mom died in 2018. And from about October when she died to, I think I did one episode in December, took a break and then came back in February. The conceit of the podcast was going to be this narrative-driven thing with music behind it and stuff.

And that started really in the 20s. And that was the conceded the podcast until I kind of got tired of it. I think this is in the 60s or so. and I disappeared for a long time. This was during the pandemic. And then it came back in late 2021. And the conceit then was, all right, I want to make this work. I want to see if I can do this and be proud of what I'm putting out.

And from like episode, I think we're talking episode 72 or so, up until the end. And I was like, all right, if I want to do this, I need co-hosts with me. So I have guests on. You were a guest on, I remember for the Veronage landing. So much fun. Yeah. And I think that's where I had the most fun doing it is when I really had somebody around that I would hope would laugh. Because at that point, that's what I wanted more than anything.

thing is just make people laugh, make people laugh, tell interesting stories, pay kind of tribute and homage to these stories because, you know, a lot of them are forgotten, especially the ones that I, a lot of the ones that I covered are ones that I wanted people to remember. I wanted people to know that these stories are out there, that they deserve to be remembered, which is kind of where the conceit for welcome UFO people came from. Like with Todd and I doing the comic that like most of it came down to, hey, how could we pay tribute to the stories that people may not remember? The stories that may never even had sketches devoted to them and, you know,

you know, proud that we were able to do that. But yeah, from about episode 72 to the end, that's where we really hit our stride. And there are a lot of, I think our greatest, episodes came out of that. And I think the best episode that I ever did was episode 163 about Pat McGuire. I think what's special about that is his son, David Rydell. He'd been following me on Instagram and he had just released, just published an article in the Huffington Post about his dad. And it got a lot of clicks. It got a lot of attention and he shot me a DM. He's like, hey, you might find this interesting. So I read the

article and was like, hey, what if I did a story about your dad? Because like you're, there aren't a lot of story, like there aren't a lot of people who devoted time to a story because it's kind of it's not a particularly kind story, but it's not, it's a very complex. story when you get down to the heart of it, especially when you talk to David about the life that he had growing up in a cult and

how his dad lived his life as he was growing up and how complicated that is. And it made for a really good episode. And he was kind enough to give me his

college thesis, which was, he was, David's in a, I think, a writing program. And he basically gave me this memoir, which was a cut between his father's story and his own story. And it was one of the most emotionally intense stories I've ever read dealing with this topic. and I hope he publishes it one day because it's just a really incredible and moving story and it made for a really incredible episode that's probably the episode I'm proud of stuff most because I'd never made an episode like that before

because it's cut between my storytelling, interviews with David, audio of Pat from different things because Pat was featured in Linda Moulton Houn's Strange Harvest for a good 10, 15 minutes, he's in it. And it also led me to realize that the research were responsible for linking alien abductions with cattle mutilations was Leo Sprinkle himself. because he did all of the hypnosis sessions on the three people

who claimed that this happened, the original three, which, you know, it was, it was fascinating to me and, you know,

kind of where that led me down. But I think I'll never be able to not think about that episode and think of our strange guys. You know, that was, that's still one. I still struggle to process at times. Wow.

Wow. Yeah, it's a, it's such, like you said, a complex story, a human story. And I love how you did that episode. You know, many of us in this sort of podcast world, we strive to do hit a home run like that. You know, when you can have archival audio and interviews and interspers it with your own story. And then, you know, a family member. this, that, this, that. It becomes like something far bigger than you ever anticipated. And I've had a few of those episodes of my show where I just got so lost in the research and the production of the episode that they will be ones that I remember, you know, until the end of somewhere in the skies.

So I couldn't think of a better episode myself, honestly. I absolutely love that one. do you have any interesting stories about like interview wise? You know, for me, I've had a few you know, times where I had to just like cut the interview and be like, nope, we're done, bye. Or, you know, the time I got trapped in my closet,

naked interviewing Stanton Friedman and my landlord came into my apartment to show the apartment to someone and open my closet door. And there I was in there with my computer and just my boxers interviewed Stan Friedman. That's a story for another time. But yeah, I don't know if you've had anything as redonculus as that. But any fun stories on your journey of podcasting, of recording, I guess. I never wanted to do interviews when I started.

It was only because Brad Abraham's, the director of Loved Saucers, he reaches out to me and he goes, hey, man, I love your podcast. Can I be on it? I'm like, I wasn't going to do that. But sure, sure. Let's let's do it and stuff like that. That happens a lot to, you know, like people will literally be like, hey, can I come on your show? And it's people you would never expect either. Like, high profiles. My inbox is horrendous. But I think that was one of the wildest interviews I ever did because the stuff that he was telling me that didn't make it into the documentary. Like he was telling me that David Huggins' ex-wife live with him. I'm like, why? What is going on here?

Like, they're not together, but they're living together. like okay and like I get it New York City it's expensive it's not cheap um you gotta do what you gotta do um I think the wildest thing to happen while I was editing that episode there was like a weird vibe in my house I was in the living room I was editing it and the entire time I was editing it I just felt watched I'm like what is this what am I feeling here So kind of just edited the episode, scheduled it to go up the next day. And while I was walking to work, I see this weird freaking light in the sky. It was flashing white and red.

But it didn't look like a plane. There was no sound or anything like that. And I don't know. just kind of got the impression that like, I don't know, like, somebody was watching me and just wanted to make sure that I released the episode or something like that. I don't know. It was a very weird feeling, a very odd feeling. Um, but, uh, that, that was one of the, the strangest ones. Um, I've never had a moment where I've ever been,

I've never really interviewed anybody that it's like really all that controversial or anything like that. I've gotten some negative reviews after one interview in particular. I did an interview with our friend Mike DeMonte

and it was after his second book had come out. that punk rock and UFO's book. And I got so much backlash because I had asked him what he thought about the fact that it was mostly Fox News doing all the coverage for like this new UFO stuff. He's like, well, it's getting out there and stuff like that. The number of negative reviews I got because, you know, it's no like, like, it's not a secret. I'm a very left-wing person.

And I mean, Mike is too. But, yeah, the number of negative reviews it generated to the point where I took it right off. Like, you can't find that interview anywhere. There's a few interviews that I took down because I wasn't really happy with them. I interviewed an author of a book. And they were kind enough to, you know, his publicist was kind enough to set up the interview and stuff like that. And I was asking him about it. And it was a UFO-themed book that he wrote, kind of, an alien-themed book.

But it was like he wasn't really interested in the subject. It's like, if you're not really interested in the subject, I kind of don't really want to interview you. And I was a fan of the guy. I had read some of his books. But, yeah, I pulled that interview down. So there's like, I think three, three episodes that are not, you can't find them on her feed because I, I just don't want them out there. But we'll be dropping them on the somewhere in the sky sky's speed. He's hijacked my computer.

Yes, yes. I've been able to get in there. And, yeah, yeah. Did it like what I found, Rob. I'll put it that way. Yeah, no, that's fair. I will say the, the, when I interviewed Stan Gordon, I think one of the most ominous things is,

there's that the case, and I don't know the exact name of it, but it's one of those Pennsylvania big foot cases. And it's one involving a guy named George Qualchick, First and foremost, Stan would never release the name, even though the name was released in the newspapers. He'd never bring up the name or anything like that. But when you talk to him, there were elements of that case that he did not want to talk about. Because there are, it's one of those cases that has Bigfoot's UFOs, and it has kind of like, almost like a demonic possession event. that happens and he never wants to talk about that ever like he he will never broach the subject

he kind of just shies away from it anytime uh i brought it up and and stan's an old school guy you actually have to talk to him on the phone in order to get that interview like he does it over the over his phone he's like i'm really old school about it um i'm like all right zoom zoom's capable of of dealing with that but um i think you know that's definitely only one of the most memorable interviews that I've done, just because Stan's such an interesting guy, and he's been in the field for, like, I don't know, like 60 plus years. I will say,

and I was kind of, I wasn't really pissed at you, but I was kind of upset with you because you got the ballet exclusive. However, I got an email saying that he would come on my podcast, And then they did a bait and switch on me. And I was not happy with that. Yeah. I did not know that. Oh, my God.

Yeah. So I'm not going to say who reached out because we both know who this person is because I assume you went through the same person to get on. And you know this person very well. Emailed me saying, hey, Jock would love to be on your podcast. And then at the last minute, they said, well, we've got Pala Harris here for it. I'm like, no, you do not. You are not doing this. I, I, well, I'll share a story with you off air about, um, Paula Harris and the valet interview and what happened with me.

Because I have a funny story to tell as well about that whole thing. But it's all making, it's all making sense now. Um, wow. Well, it's funny you bring that up because I, there have been so many. interviews that I've done where I feel like I wasn't, how can I put this? Even to this day, I still feel very insecure going into interviews. I feel like I'm never like truly ready. And you know me. Like I usually have like a 20 page outline of questions. And I'm like, this is what I might ask you just so if you want to like, like I do that for everyone. I over.

repair, I guess is the way to put it. Unlike today where I was like, hey, Rob, let's get on here and just shoot the crap for whatever. We're going on an hour now. So interviews could be tough. So I understand why maybe that wasn't like your intent going into doing the podcast. Because it can, dude, it could be so hit or miss when it comes to an interview. I had people who, when I push record, I'm like, so what got you interested in UFOs? Yeah.

You know, they'd be like, oh, well, I saw close encounters of the third kind. Yeah, it's like, you know. And then that's it. Yeah, it's one of those weird things where half the time you're either going to get a remarkable story. The other half is, oh, I saw a documentary, I saw a movie, and it's not to say that those people weren't valid in their interest or anything like that. No, not at all. Like, man, could you put some flare on that thing?

I need 37 pieces of flare. God damn it. And it's with some people, it's like pulling tea to get anything out of them. There are definitely some interviews that I did in which it was. Aside from Brad, there's only ever been one other person that has specifically asked to be interviewed. And they kind of went through it in a roundabout way. Mark O'Connell, and I love Mark O'Connell. He's so great.

You know, he wrote The Close Encounters Man. And he was talking to my good buddy, Rich Adam. And he's like, hey, I got an interview for your podcast. He really wants to be interviewed by you. I was like, oh, really? Who's that? He's like, Mark O'Connell. I was like, all right.

Because it's back in the day, way back in the day, we started a kind of UFO book club of which there were two. There was your book, your first book, somewhere in the skies, and we did The Close Encounters Man, which is the first book. And Mark loved the discussion that we had, you know, and you followed me soon after we posted the episode. He really enjoyed it. And then, yeah, it was interesting a few years later to be like,

oh well he really he really wants to be in your podcast like all right sure why not I think I think the most the interview that probably affected me

the most was the interview I did with Mike Laughan just because we both lived in the same area right around the same time we knew of like this like, you know, the same areas.

And then we were talking about a lot of the same areas. And he was bringing up stories of encounters that people had had in the Adirondex. I'm like, wow, nobody really talks about that stuff. Because like, there's this thing about living up here where people will say, oh, yeah, I've had some really weird experiences, but they'll never talk about them. They never do. And it was so fascinating to kind of get his insomely. of, you know, being up here for as long as he was.

Because he was up here for, I think, the better part of two books. I know he wrote most of messengers up here. And I think he, you know, the follow-up too. But like that interview always stuck with me because, like, there was really nothing planned. I'm just like, all right, I'm going to shoot from the hip and see what I can get out of and what I can, you know, say and stuff like that. and it turned into this like two hour plus long kind of thing going back and forth. And, you know, with Mike, he's like, he's almost like very zen about the way that he comes off.

He's like very like stoic and calm and stuff. Yes. And, uh, yeah, that that turned into this combination of like endless fascination and, mutual kind of admiration of two people being in the same area at the same time. But I think the only time that I ever had any kind of like, and I wouldn't say it was conflict because Mike's not a very, you know, he's not that kind of person. He doesn't really get into fights or anything like that,

but it was over Bud Hawkins because he was one of the first people that he went to with his experiences and stuff like that. And we have two very different views of the man. And I think that was the only time that I've ever had incredibly differing viewpoints on this stuff. But, yeah, fondest memory of him. And I think this was right around the time that his novel was coming out, like, last year. Right, right.

Yeah, Mike's such a good guy. Like, you know, I will always have an affinity for Mike and that area where there's so much, like you said, such a rich history. I mean, I had some weird stuff happen with Mike as well. Like, we won't go into it. We've talked about it on several episodes at this point. But yeah, yeah, fond, fond memories. You know, a lot of the sort of more storytelling or case histories of our strange skies that really stuck out to me were things like Ed Walters and the. golf breeze sightings. That was a really good one. Your Bud Hopkins sort of expose, as I would call it,

was really interesting. And then you did this like multi sort of, God, almost like multi-seasonal history of alien abductions like just in general. So I guess what was it like working on a series like the history of alien abductions. I can't even begin to, like, process what kind of research went into that. And, yeah, how do you think that went over with the audience? I think it's one of the most listened to things that I've ever had. Part of it is because my buddy Rich Adam was involved in it. I think episode, like the first part of that, which was like a history of alien abductions

from like 19 I guess span from like the 1930s all the way up to the late 60s or so but a lot of the research I had done it was kind of just organizing it

I had a lot of help on that series from a buddy of mine named Jeff DeMers and Jeff went he almost lost his mind because he wrote the three Whitley-Strieber episodes that we did. He also, he did another episode for us too. And there was a lot that just went into it. And I think most of it came down to what gets included and what doesn't.

And that series is forever unfinished because there was a definite ending point. I think I was going to end with Andruffles How to Protect Yourself from Alien Abduction because it's like a classic book from the 90s and it's so kind of fun. And it references an important case that I don't think ever gets talked about, which is the Tihunga Canyon case.

Because it's the only case that involves, at least, you know, that I, that I've ever really heard of that involves people from the LGBTQIA plus community. Like, they involve two different, actually one woman in two different

lesbian relationships. So that like never really gets talked about. And I think we only kind of slightly referenced it in that first episode. But over the course, of it, it became, well, what gets included? What are the biggest cases that get included? And how do we do this? And that first episode I had in my hands for a while, but after that, it became more about what individual cases do we include because after a certain point, especially in the 80s and 90s,

you got a lot of people publishing their own takes, their own books, um, on their experiences. And specifically, I think Whitley, we kind of had the conceit to dive into his entire bibliography on it. Because nobody really, I don't think a lot of people had. I think a lot of people had. I think a lot of people went to communion and that was it.

A lot of people just stopped there. So my conceit was, let's do the entire thing. Because I think there's a lot of interesting material. And then I think one of the things that you find when you look into a story is that a lot of it feels like a cash grab. Like the publishers wanted books. There's no doubt about it. So the next two kind of get like stretched out. Like it's, it almost seems like a slog to get through them because it covers kind of a relatively short period of time.

And then his story becomes very convoluted over time, which is where famously you can hear me say that there are no nuns on Mars. I'm pretty sure I tweeted that after I heard you. say that. That was one of my favorite quotes from the episode, yeah. Yeah, like, that's one of my favorite quotes of all time from this is me yelling, there are no nuns on Mars, because

once you get into, I think it's the secret school, Whitley starts talking about the aliens kind of abducting him to this one area in Texas, and then he starts talking about going to school on Mars and

stuff like that. And it just becomes like way too much and you go beyond that and it starts to become this kind of like I don't know life after death kind of stuff which is interesting it's an interesting turn but I don't believe the man ever went to school on Mars and nobody can convince me that it's just you know why not Rob? Um again I just there are no nuns on Mars like there there's you know, not even the face on Mars, you know, it's been debunked.

It's not what it is anymore. And I'm sure Richard Hoagland still screams about that because, like, why not? But I think over the course of that series, it became more and more about how that can kind of infect people and how it can kind of really steer down a dark road, especially with like Carla Turner.

Carla Turner's story is very dark. It is very scary because her interest in this subject didn't even, you know, it doesn't go all that far back. It started when she had her school students kind of doing, um, a project on why certain phenomenon exist. And then it turns into this really intense story involving her and her husband being abducted and, like, you know, experiments and stuff like that. And, you know, it goes on to become, like, the 80s and 90s kind of abduction scene goes on to become, like, just more and more, like, It feels like a scare tactic almost.

Super dark, yeah. Yeah, very, very. And I think that's where I got kind of tired of it. I was going to end on John Mack and I just never got there. Because John Mack was kind of like, I guess you could call him like a light in the dark, a guy who would kind of hold your hand through it and just like, hey, this isn't so bad. There's some positives that will come from this. but

yeah that series there are yeah there are still things that that stick out to me when I think about that series I think that's I would put that in the upper echelon

of things that we've done and I'm kind of sad that I didn't get to finish it but at the same time I'm not because no thank you yeah well that kind of leads into my next question for you

I get asked a lot. Why aren't we hearing about alien abductions anymore? It seems like they kind of really petered out, at least in like the mainstream in the 90s. Like, I dare someone

to try to find a case that the public knows about, you know, in the past like, gosh, 10, 20 years, if even. Why do you think abductions have sort of become a thing of the past? And speaking of abducting,

there he is he's back we think oh my God can you hear me yeah yeah oh god so sorry about that dude no welcome back yeah welcome back well thanks for joining us guys this has been somewhere in the skies

have a good time the summer in the skies is free to listen to every week but if you would like to help support the show we have a very active Patreon page where you Give what you think the show is worth. In return, you'll get early access to the main show, bonus episodes, and priority to ask our guests your listener questions.

Your support truly makes the show continue and grow. So to learn more and to join, visit patreon.com slash somewhere skies. No, Steve, we're happy to have you back, my man. We've been sort of going through some of Rob's most memorable episodes. and stuff like that. Yeah. You know, we talked about the different types of series that he did, you know, the history of alien abductions.

And that's kind of where we let, we ended it right here is, I want, I'd like both your thoughts on this, actually. Why aren't we hearing about alien abductions anymore? Like, it seems like they kind of just, either they got what they needed from us or, I don't know. But Rob, I guess I'll let you take it for. first buddy, like, what are your thoughts on why we're not hearing about alien abductions in today's world?

I think it's a lot of different things. I don't think the openness of what researchers are doing is out there anymore. And I'm sure you could find, you know, blog posts and stuff like that. But, like, when you go and read the old UFO journals, the thing is, is, like, these guys are are throwing their cases out to the wild. They're putting them out there because they want this to be a record for everybody to, you know, know, know, know, find the similarities to differences, compare and contrast and stuff.

And in the last 20, 30 years, you've seen more bigger, more private organizations kind of take over the research and the investigations. Like, the ones that did it in the past, it was a passion project for all of them. And I think they were out there in greater numbers than they are now. And with UFOs, it's different than with hunted cryptids. It's different than investigating UFOs.

investigating ghosts and you know like parapsychological stuff like there's this there's an area to research like a specific area whether it's a house a forest whatever with UFOs it's not that simple because you're not investigating the aliens themselves

you're investigating the people which is it almost feels backwards in many ways because you can't go and talk to whatever beings and say, hey, why did you, um, hey, why did you buzz Johnny B over here with that wand and just like,

you know, paralyzing and stuff. Like, why did you, you can't really do that as it's not, this kind of research is not as interactive. I mean, for,

for some people it was like, you know, whether, you know, you're talking about keel and the mothman prophecies with these silent contactees and stuff like that. But, it's not interactive to the point where it's easy to research and stuff.

So the people that were researching the stuff were researching past events. There's no way it could be active. So you don't have those people around anymore, at least not as much. The UFO journals aren't there. You kind of have all these factors that fall away and leave it all to these private groups that collect all this information. And, you know, I've, I've been in that Mufant's CMS before. I know about the clown pants.

I was the one that exposed the clown pants. I think, if anything, I want my legacy to be that in, you know, stealing the clown pants photo from Mufon. I think that's among the greatest works that I will ever do. because it kind of exposes the absurdity of the investigator and not the aliens or the UFOs or anything. Like, it's as if the investigators themselves have become absurd. It's almost like they feel tired about, you know, it's not a very romantic way to do things when you're sent something. when you're sent a UFO sighting over computer.

And, you know, you kind of have to follow up on the phone. You can't go and, you know, investigate every single one of them. Let's not say in the cases that I looked at that there weren't good investigators because there were. There were plenty of good investigators. But it's kind of become an armchair thing now. It's not in the field thing. and we just don't have those stories being shared other than, you know, Juan Strickler does.

You know, he'll throw things on his website. There are some others, but beyond that, those resources are just not there anymore. And those resources are people and UFO journals. So I think that's the main reason why all of that kind of fell away. in the 90s. It was kind of starting to hemorrhage a little bit in the 80s. If you read through Flying Saucer Review in the 80s, they start to get very cynical about UFOs

because it's topics that are becoming increasingly hokey, you know, in particular the way that crop circles are being treated, the way that alien abductions are being treated and such. there are a lot of people that stop publishing in those journals and stuff. It's kind of the more sensational stuff that ends up getting published in them. So I think that's the easiest way that I can put it is a series of factors that includes investigators, a place to share this stuff, and a reliable place to share this stuff. because above top secret is maybe not the best place.

Oh, what are you talking about? Hey! What are you talking about? Okay, Steve, I'd like to ask you, man. Okay, so the researchers, okay, that is definitely a huge factor and a place for this stuff to go. But I'd like to know from you, man, do you think they're still happening? Like, do you literally think people are still being abducted? have ever been abducted?

Are they still doing this if we are to believe that the alien abduction phenomenon is something tangible, real? Right. I mean, that is such a good question. And Rob's answer was like way more eloquent and probably run out of the money than mine will be. Like I kind of see it in a few different ways where like I do think like everything in life is trend based beyond entertainment.

I mean like and I do think in the 80s, 90s, you know, we kind of came from the contactee, like encounters or like humanoid encounter type thing. And then we went to abductions, you know, which were taking up the attention in UFOs in the 80s and 90s. And I do think one possibility is that that trend just got boring to people. And so people stopped writing about it. They're like, well, all these abductions kind of sound the same and they're getting really homogenized and boring. That's not, I'm not saying this way I think it is. I think that is a possibility.

Then my woo-woo side is kind of like. like, well, the phenomenon always changes. Why don't we see flying saucers anymore or flying airships? And I'm not saying, you know, but like it's with the abduction scenario, I've kind of at this point sort of come to maybe think that it has never been a physical abduction, but more of a psychological experience. That definitely could be external. However, I'm not convinced that the abduction scenario as is popularized in pop culture is exactly what's going on. I'm not really convinced that people were floated out of the room through walls and taken to, you know, on a flying saucer up in space. Maybe that's the case.

But so are they still happening? I would guess that people are still experiencing the abduction scenario. but I do think it is one of these things where a lot of these UFO groups, kind of like how Rob was talking about, there is always been a push to be taken seriously by the scientific community and, you know, move on, for example. Like their whole thing, you know, I know people are move on still, and they still tell me that in the, at least in Nebraska move on, that they try to exclude a lot of the weird stuff that happens in these reports, which I think is bad science if you want to be taken to.

I don't think that's not a responsible way. of investing. Agreed. Agreed. And neither do some of these people who are in some of these organizations. Like, they're not all, like, down with everything they're doing. They just love the subject and love investigating. But it is one of those things. Like, it's tough for me to say yes or no one way. I feel like my guess, I think people were experiencing what they're experiencing. I think they believe what they were saying. I really do. Not everyone. But I think there's a lot of genuine people out there. And I would think that people probably still are experiencing it. But I think if like abductions became in the UFO zeitgeist again, as opposed to maybe like

the government disclosure thing, I think we would hear a lot more about them. I think when things are at the forefront of in society and culture, they, people start to experience these things more. Whether it's genuine or not, I think that's where a lot of the stories come from. It's like trend. It's trend based. It's not, it's not the coolest answer, but that's kind of what I think probably is most logical for me personally. Well, and you know, that's why I guess it's called a phenomenon. Like it's sort of it's, it's omnipresent. It comes, it goes.

It's always around us in some way, shape, or form. And I think you're right, man. You know, whether it's the researchers doing the research or those claiming the abductions, like it's, it's always been in this like dreamlike state. And everyone I speak to always says, like, I felt like I was in a dream or, I felt like out of body. And I'm like, yeah, it was probably all of that to be completely honest. I think, I think you, you definitely nailed it.

I think I know people who claim to have the ability to lose a dream. And I actually believe them in astral projecting things like that. And they tell me that it is undetectable from like real life. It's so real to them that whether this is just them tapping in their subconscious and being able to do like, like really wild, you know, otherworldly traveling and there's the other subconscious, that is still very interesting to me. So if the abduction scenario or phenomenon is just that, that is really weird too. So like it doesn't make it any less cool to me.

It's like I don't know how much of, or if any, this stuff is actually material and physical in form, but I think it can't appear in see material in form. And I know that's probably like copping off a lot of like Jacques valet type notions. But I do think valet is right about a lot of this stuff where even if you just take the craft, for instance, it's like it will appear in one way for 20, maybe 30 years. But the trend seems to be that changes. And except for life phenomena, I will say that's been pretty consistent throughout time. But who knows? It's all so interesting.

Like I hope one day we get flying saucers again because that's my favorite. craft. Great craft. Saucers forever, baby. Well, Steve, while we have you, buddy, because I'm hoping, I'm hoping the connection stays and you don't get abducted again. Me too. Yeah. Like, what the hell is the men in black?

Yeah, well, they got a little knock at my door, guys. Okay. That's all you had to stay. That's all you had to say. They were wiping lipstick off, you know. Yeah. It got crazy. Making quarters.

Exactly. Yeah. Things I learned from Rob Kirstall. Absolutely. Absolutely. Steve, I want to open the floor to you, man, to ask Rob or bring up something from the days of our strange skies.

I've fan-boid out enough. But, yeah, is there anything you want to ask Rob or things you're interested in about his process or the stuff he's covered? Like, it's all yours. I definitely am. And, well, first off,

just a couple, if you have not listened to Rob's show, that's exciting for you because you got a whole library full of wonderful things to come. A couple of things I would recommend for the, like if you're going, if you're one of those people who don't look to start the beginning and just kind of want cherry pick their way into something. I think the coming of the UFO monster series from 1965 to 67 is astoundingly important. I think a lot of the South American cases Rob covered are, there's a lot in there that, like, I think we've heard about a lot of them, but Rob really goes into great detail and includes the people. That's what I always love about Rob. It's like he has a really great knack of highlighting the person who's experiencing this stuff.

And I think that's really important because I think that's where we can learn a lot. I think his interview with Stan Gordon is probably my favorite interview with Stan Gordon, anyone's ever done. And I think Stan Gordon is one of these like not talked about enough researchers. I think he's one of the greats, in my opinion. And there's also, speaking of alien abductions, he gives an amazing history of anal abductions. if you're looking to get into Rob's our strange guys, this is a pretty, I think,

from a fanboy, this is where I would start. But Rob, I am curious about when you were, you know, like, let's say not one of your series, which are so wonderful, but just like a single case.

What kind of qualities? Because I know that you definitely combed through a lot of these old journals and, you know, old books, books that have been forgotten about. But what qualities do? were you looking for to deep dive and do an episode on? I think anything that had a decent amount of substance to it, because if it doesn't have

that, it doesn't, it's not going to make for a great episode. And I think when it comes down to it, when you dive into these topics, and I think, like, one of the best examples of it is the Antonio V.S. Boas case. And what really stands. out about it is that the researchers that researched it, Dr. Alavo-Fontez, Jal Martins, one was a journalist, the other one was, you know,

a UFO investigator with APRO, and he was a doctor. They investigate this case a couple of months after it occurred. And they distance themselves from it. They're like, there's no way that this could have happened because this is, in 1957, alien abductions aren't a thing. Like, this is not in the zeitgeist of this phenomenon at this time. It is people seeing saucers. Yeah, some of them, you got contactees claiming what they're claiming. And there are stray cases here and there. There's, you know, the stuff going on in 1954, which is, you know,

an interesting thing in and up itself because it's like, hey, there are a bunch of French people, Italian people, and South American people who see these weird aliens and stuff like that. We forget entirely about it. But these guys investigate this case. They're like, no, we're not going to do anything with it. There's a lot of compelling evidence here, especially Antonio himself, who had some pretty gnarly health problems. for a while in the wake of that case. And then what you find out is the reason that that case comes to light is there's another

UFO researcher in Brazil. His name is Dr. Walter Bueller. He investigated cases for decades, wrote about them in a lot of UFO journals. And I think it's important to note that he was a white guy. So like a lot of a lot of this stuff, and it is a important to acknowledge this. And it's something that I think about often is that this phenomenon is more often than not documented by white people. That makes you think a little bit. But he heard of the V.S. Boa story. He doesn't say how he heard of it. But he ends up going into,

Antonio lived in Sao Francisco de Salas, which is about as remote as you can get in Brazil. It's a pretty remote area, kind of in southern Brazil. He ends up tracking him down, ends up getting a lot of details out of him. He's very reluctant.

He doesn't want to talk about a lot of it. And they print the story in Flying Sasser Review, under a series of articles called The Most Amazing Case of All. And this is in 1965. And around 1967, Alava Fonte says, no, you got a lot of stuff wrong. Here's the full story. And he gives us a story to Coral Lorenzen.

She publishes it in a book called Flying Sasser Occupants. And then it's published in Flying Sasser Review. And in the context of that story, that story is as fascinating as like his experience itself because they didn't want it to come out. They didn't want anybody to know about this story. And it ultimately led to being published in Brazilian press and stuff like that. So I think just the most fascinating thing when you get to the nitty gritty and you're able to find. the resources that contain all of this information, you can construct an interesting enough story out of it that is deeper than you ever expected.

And, you know, the other interesting thing about Alavantes is not long after he investigated the case, you had a men in black visit. Like, they just knocked on his door and said, yeah, you're not going to, you're not going to publish anything about this case, actually, grip up your stuff. So, like, you know, you, I've always been fascinated with trying to figure out, get to the nitty gritty of things. And I think one of the best examples of that was, Ryan, when I was on your podcast for the first time when we were doing that men and black stuff, like the Herbert Hawkins men of black encounter, the one, you know, with the coin disappearing and stuff. So good. It is infamous.

But at the time when I was like researching that stuff, nobody talked about the case that he was investigating at the time. Like nobody ever mentioned it. So I'm like, all right, I'm pretty interested. What's the case that he was looking into? And it is one of the most fascinating abduction cases of all time, so much so that the alien that is in the logo for the podcast came from that case. and it's this case involving these two guys in Maine who they moved in together they actually met became fast friends

and they moved in together and they both did like night jobs one worked in a meat processing plant and another one worked in a textile factory or something like that and they were at home one evenings. They were staying up late and they hear this bang outside. So they go out to see what the heck caused it. Nothing there, but they just get this really strange urge to go on a drive. So they get in the car. They're driving for a little bit. And then it's as if they lose control of the vehicle, something else has control of their vehicle. Brings them to this field. And in this field, this UFO rises up and it comes over to the car. And there's just like cutscene. where one moment the car is on one side of the road,

the next it's on the other side. And these guys end up being pursued by this UFO for like hours after this. And they go to this lake nearby. And at this lake, they see miniature UFOs like flying over it. It's this very strange case that involves all this stuff. After it, the main witness

his parents experienced poltergeist activity he experienced poltergeist activity he had a men in black visit and through the hypnosis we find that these weird aliens and he described them having like mushroom-shaped heads and you can see it if you look at the logo of the podcast you can see exactly what they look like

and they do some kind of experiments on him at one point he punches one of them in the face which is really great. Sorry. We got to laugh about that. Yeah. Yeah. But they're like, you know,

as peaceful as can. And like the guy's like the alien's just like, all right, back in a way. Because they're like trying to get him to take his clothes off and stuff. And yeah, they do, they do a bunch of stuff with them.

And like it was truly this remarkable case. And I wouldn't have like known about. had I not looked into that, had I not gone deeper. So that instinct has always been there to try and find the most compelling story that you can, because you can tell the same story over and over again. And the way in which people talk about like Betty and Barney Hill, it's the same story over and over again. But I think one of the things that I appreciated about the way that I did it, is that it told the more human side of the story.

And, you know, kind of how like these were two kids that they kind of found each other, got married fast, never got to be able to go on a honeymoon and kind of just enjoy it. They were, you know, just working all the time. And they decide to go on this, you know, imprompt to weekend retreat up into, Niagara Falls and everything for them goes wrong. And you kind of feel incredibly bad for them because it's just like, can these folks get a break? And,

you know, after all of it, like there are other strange elements to the case, like them coming back into their house one day and see, like, snow is on top of their like table or something like that. It's like, it's perfectly preserved.

It's not melted. It's just sitting there. Um, There's a lot of weirder elements that get left out of that case because it doesn't fit into kind of the major story beats of it, which is, you know, returning, trying to beat a hurricane home, get abducted, hypnosis years later. And again, you find, like, the most interesting facts when you, like, drill down on it. Like Benjamin Simon, like, you learn that he was instrumental in treating soldiers coming back from the warfront during World War II with PTSD. Like he used hypnosis on him. That's where he started.

Yeah. That's very interesting. And I think that rich, like that rich history that you go into is what makes our strange skies unique in terms of tackling a case that's been, let's be honest, done over and over and over and over again. So, yeah, man, I've always appreciated that. And I also really appreciated when you decided to go global, too. You know, like me, like you and I both started from very Western eyes, from the Roswell case and everything going on in America. But one of my favorite episodes, too,

and then I want to throw it back to you, Steve, get your thoughts on this as well, is when you decided to cover Africa, you know, something like someone who's been doing research in Africa for decades, and nobody ever talks about it. And then here we go. Like who can we rely on? Rob Christopherson to bring us a plethora of cases out of Africa. And not only cases, but how a different culture looks at, embraces, rejects,

and the lens in which they view the phenomena happening. So, yeah, that Africa episode is also one of my favorites. What was that like making that one? for this was you know not long after the pandemic that I really started to look into that African cases and like again you can't talk about the subject without bringing up the fact that it has a racial bias it does it always has most of the you know important encounters that we talk about are generally involving white men. They, like, most of the time, that's what it is. I'm not saying that it's all, but I'm saying it dominates a lot of this.

And I felt it was really important to highlight cases from over in Africa, mostly because there's a different kind of culture that comes with the way that people view this. Like, and more often than not, what Cynthia was finding, is that they don't look at them as like alien visitors. They look at them as ancestral ghosts. They look at them as being, you know, these kind of ancestors that have lingered on. And I think the most important case that I covered of that is the La Rochelle incident,

which is an incident on the border of Zimbabwe, 1981 there is this property called La Rochelle and again it like that it was a property that was owned by wealthy white people and they eventually give it back to the government to do

whatever they want with it and like if you look at the website for that you can have any kind of event you want there it's actually a very beautiful kind of like shat with like there's a there's a really interesting kind of like watch tower there and stuff like that. And these, the people that live there and then work there,

they have this really remarkable experience, which doesn't necessarily seem like a UFO experience, but it does at the same time. There's a woman who sees kind of this ball of light in a tree. and she sees it roll out of the tree and it starts moving around the property. And the main witness, a guy named Clifford Buchena, sees all these people freaking out and then he sees this ball itself. And it starts rolling up this tower, goes into it and then rolls out of it.

So he follows this assuming that it's a fire. Weirdest fire you've ever seen because it's not like catching anything on fire. So it goes and they have this. bell, he goes to bring the bell. And when he turns the corner and gets there, he sees these three beings that they're kind of

they didn't have a lot of features to them other than they looked humanoid, kind of wearing coveralls, but they couldn't see their faces because their faces were just like bright light. And he gets down on his knees and he starts

praying and they go away. And years later, he's talking to Cynthia Hein about this. And she asked him, well, what do you think it was? And he says, well, I think it was, you know, my ancestors. And she says, well, you know, your ancestors didn't look like that. And he had the best response. He's like, you know, times changed. Yes. I mean, you know, you can't argue with that.

Yeah. You can't. You can't. Times they are a change. God, that is the best answer I've ever heard in my life. It's so simple yet so profound. It is. Yeah. And like, you know, and Ryan, you and I both have this in common. That series encounters on Netflix.

We were both kind of asked to, I don't know how intense it got for you, how involved you got in it. but for me it was like one Zoom call with one of the producers on it. Yeah, pretty much. Yeah. And the producer was interested in the African cases. Yep. And I expressed to her, like, look, African cases are very important. I was telling her, because this is at the time when I released, there's an episode I did about this 72 flap in South Africa,

which is very, it's very fascinating. There's a lot of weird incidents that go on, particularly centered around one guy's farm. And emphasizing the importance of those cases and needing to cover them. And lo and behold, they did cover the aerial school landing in the show, which is great, which it deserves to be covered. but one of the things that I advocated for in that last episode is like especially with cons and stuff like that they need to be more diverse they need to be way more diverse there isn't enough inclusion and if you know I've seen plenty of posters of and I think the worst offenders probably contact in the desert if you look at the poster it is a blizzard folks it's not Nothing but white people. I don't know what you're talking about. I'm not calling anybody out specifically.

I'm not talking about anybody that was there and that has done these conferences and stuff like that. But it's like those spaces need to be advocated for. And I think one of the best examples of that was a nomicon when you put that on last year. I think it's one of the most diverse cons that. I've ever seen and you got a wide range of perspectives, which I appreciated. And it was a fantastic event and, you know, I had fun being part of it. But I think, you know, that's one thing that I've tried to emphasize over the use is, you know, it needs to be more inclusive. There needs to be more people involved in this space, you know, especially BIPAC people. Um, people, um,

LGBTQIA plus people, disabled people, there needs to be a lot more of them in these spaces because like it's no, I'm not really overstepping my bounds when I say a lot of the people that are interested in the subject are far right people. And we need more people on the other side to take up space in this,

in this field, in these cons and stuff like that. I've had friends who have not felt comfortable at these cons, at some of them. And it shouldn't be that way. It should be open to everybody. 100%. You nailed it. Yep.

Steve, all yours, buddy. You got anything else for Rob? Well, I do. And I don't want to, I know you guys have been recording for a while, but I do want to just, Rob, there's like, you know, two theories that come to my. that I think are wonderful.

And that was like, you know, your kind of history of, you know, abductions and the, you know, kind of the history of catamilations. And the thing is, is like you, and I know this for a fact, like, you know, you told me, like, and you can hear it on the show. These were both very hard for you. And they kind of almost, at times, almost made you, like, physically sick. Like, you know, because there's a lot of negativity in some dark spaces that you had to wandered through. But I think those series are really important. But I just, I, you know,

I want to compliment you on your, you know, being courageous enough to kind of fight through it. Because I think it is really important to document some of the unsavory aspects of these things. When, you know, when you shine light on some of the, the negativity in the, you know, without getting political, far right kind of, you know, tiptoeing and fascist ideas, I think we can get rid of that and push those people out you know yeah because there's no place for as far as I'm concerned but like what what like what

was the process like like how hard was it for you to tackle these topics because I can even tell in the episodes like at times you're like you're like oh my God I'm really having to slog my way through this personally so what was it like? Yeah there's a certain

spectrum of UFO history that is interesting and fun to cover. From about 1947 all the way up to 1979, 1980, that's when it's fun. When it goes beyond that, it becomes a slog.

It becomes, like, incredibly hard to get into that. And, yeah, with the abduction series, it just got, it got darker and darker because that's the way in which it went. And

I think it was important to cover the Bud Hopkins and David Jacobs stuff the way that I covered it because I had found over the years there's a lot of backlash to it. I'd get a lot of backlash to it. There were a number of comments that I got, a number of reviews, and some of them were from Canadians, which I find so endlessly fascinating. And my best friend is Canadian, you know.

so, but being like, you know, me talking shit about Bud Hopkins, even though, like, and when I talk to Mike Clellan about this, he's like, yeah, he had his preference. He did not like to include any of that high strange and stuff. Yeah. He had a very specific idea for what he wanted that, what he wanted to cover because it all became about the aliens are lying to us, and they're trying to, to assimilate and like take over the world, which is it's almost akin to J.K. Rowling's transphobic bullshit in the sense that you didn't see it going that way. Like it's amazing to watch one woman destroy her reputation as being a very charitable and generous person over this topic, which is incredibly disheartening.

but that darkness is hard to be in for a certain period of time. There are a lot of episodes, especially when you get into the abductions from, you know, about Ed Walters and Whitley Streber. Once you get past that, it gets very dark, you know, with Carla Turner and just how her story went. And I think one of the most troubling, of that. And the hardest episode that I had to do and I struggled with it so much as the Stan

Robineck episode. Because like, you know, that that's a touchy subject in and of itself. And I had to walk away a couple times from even writing it. And I forced my best friend to be part of that episode, I'm like, I need you to get me through, man. I need you to get me through. Because that's your friends are for, man. Yeah. Yeah, they get you through. Yeah.

Find a friend who can get you through a stand Romanek episode. I've always said that's deep. That's, I read it on a greeting card somewhere. Yeah, I think that would definitely hallmark. Yeah. Yeah. Totally.

Try and true blue friends. They will get you through your stand Romanek episodes. Sorry to. I know it must have been very challenging. It was. Like, I, I, I'm not shy about saying that I have been in, on the receiving end, I've been assaulted. So, you know, that leaned into it a lot. But just in how, what makes those episodes hard is just watching someone go down that path and there's no return.

they're just, they're affected and it becomes their life. It became really hard with Carla Turner because it just felt like there was no turning back for her. It's just like, because I entertain this one subject in my classroom, I all of a sudden start, you know, leaving that I've been abducted. My husband has been abducted. So many people have been abducted. And they keep finding me at these cons. and stuff.

And again, that series will forever be unfinished because I just didn't want to do it anymore. After that, it was, there was no going back to it. And it was going to, yeah, I was probably going to end with, you know, a lighter note with and Druffles how to defend yourself from alien abduction. This is a really fun book. Like, seriously, if you've never get your hands on it. Aunt Druffle is amazing. I respect Aunt Druffle a lot because she was

a Christian lady who put aside her beliefs most of the time to investigate the cases she investigated. And she is important in a number of them because she investigated minorities when a lot of people wouldn't. She investigated the Harrison Bailey case. She investigated the Tunga Cainin case and a myriad of other cases. And, you know, those are important.

And they're ones that I think that people should be covering more and more on their podcasts. And, you know, that also speaks to my disillusionment with podcasts most of the time because, like, I respect that people want to do this stuff, but don't cover the same stories over and over again. We've heard them a thousand times. you know, there are other great stories out there. And the Tihungah Caney case should really be covered because it's endlessly fascinating. But, yeah, man, like, yeah. Challenge accepted.

Challenge accepted. And, you know, the great thing was is that Anomelist republished the book that was written about it, which was written by Aunt D. Ruffel, and it was co-written by Discuss. Rogo, who if you've never gotten your hands on a Rogo book, they're so fun. It's like parapsychology at its finest. And his books are hard to find. The only one isn't, and he, in 1970, I think 79, he published a compilation book of abduction cases that had occurred between, you know, the 50s up until it was published.

in 79. If you can get your hands on, it's really good. It's probably the cheapest book of his that you can find out there. But man, yeah, when you, when you're dwelling down that dark road, you realize that it's important for that stuff to be covered because it needs to be covered. At the same time, I don't want to cover it. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you did your part. You know, it's like, You don't have to make that your thing. Obviously, I wouldn't, I would, no one should make that their thing. But it is important to talk about these things. I totally agree.

Absolutely. Well, in Rob, I have you to blame for this. You have personally cost me probably thousands of dollars at this point. And let me explain why. Let me explain why. Every damn time you posted a photo of the latest vintage UFO book that you got, I would get so, so much fomo. and so jealous that I'd be like,

I need that book. And I'd start looking and I'd start the bidding wars on eBay or I'd be reaching out to whatever. Peter Rob Robbens and being like, where can I get my hand on this book? Rob Christopherson has it. I need it. And dude, I'm telling you,

like I've got way too many here in Scotland. I have no idea how I'm going to get them back to the United States. I have 12 boxes in my father's attic at home. So, I mean, there you go. So, yeah, I can honestly say thank you and also, you owe me a lot of money. I kid, I kid, I kid.

You keep me going, man. I'm just, let me, can I just, you have been, I'm going to get like Misty Eye. Like, you were so needed in this, I don't even know what to call it, community. and I mean that both UFOs and podcasting, you were such a positive inspiration in a field that can become so unbelievably toxic, so unbelievably negative for no reason. I mean, we're talking about the strangest things in our skies. Like, it's meant to ponder.

It's meant to laugh at, to cry. at to be scared of, to be in awe of. And you did that, man. And you kept me going. I hope that comes across in at least my continuation of what I'm doing. This is not the end, like, for you. I know your research will continue. You know, the book will be written.

I would say that Steve and I will probably be first in line to get it. But if we can even carry a quarter of the torch for what you've done for this field and for me personally as a podcaster, I just want to say thank you. I appreciate that. At the end of the day, the one thing that I've always wanted to do is just kind of inspire people to look into this topic. follow it wherever you want and wherever it leads you. And like, I think there's something really enriching about it once you dive into the history of it, especially when you dive past the kind of like cases that get talked about over and over again. When you look at the nitty gritty and really see that there is a history worth telling,

a history worth keeping a lot. live and a history worth celebrating. I, you know, that is like the greatest thing that I can ever hope to do for anybody. And to be an inspiration means a ton. It really does. Because I just felt like I was making a kind of silly podcast most of the time. Like, but I, you know, in the last couple of years, you know, it's really been impressed upon me like, hey, you, you know, you did something special here. And that, that just means the world to me because as someone who struggles with imposter syndrome and who just kind of never.

ever felt like their value was known, it's good to know that I provided some level of value and that I'm appreciated. Like, it really does mean the world. And you are. And I want to just say this, if I might, both of you to really, if I had to like distill down what you guys do that is so unique and so important to a person like me,

is that you treat the human side with just as much as importance as the phenomenon side. Because at the end of the day, we can study the quote unquote phenomenon all we want. But what we're really going to learn from the most is how people react to it, how it changes people, how it affects people. And so, bravo to both of you because I think you guys, Rob, you've always been down the right track. And same with you, Ryan. When I first started listening to your show, Ryan, you focus on the same thing. Rob, you as well.

And the way I found out about Rob, it was early pandemic. Probably you were pretty early into the show. And I think I just saw someone retweet something really hilarious, some kind of UFO joke or something it was about UFOs. I can't remember the tweet. I thought it was so funny. And I kind of like clicked on your profile, followed you and like, oh, this guy's got a podcast. Let me check it out. And you got me excited about.

I go through these lulls, like I'm sure we all do, where I'm like, I'm so tired of UFOs. Like, how many times can I reread, you know, Operation Trojan Horrors and, you know, a lot, a lot, a lot. But, like, Rob, your show was something so deeply unique and got me excited about, I forgot why I loved UFOs. And it really is the humanoid cases is what I love the most, because they're the weirdest, they're so far out.

And for some reason, they feel like the most real ones to me. I don't know why. I have no evidence to back that up. But they're so weird that I feel like they're so deeply important. And your show really, like, just got me excited about this topic. That I've loved since I was a kid. Like, I really, I'm like, you know, not trying to brag. There's something to brag about loving UFOs in her life, but I have.

Trust me, I'm, no one thinks I'm cool for that, folks. Trust me. We've tried, guys. I've gotten no cool cachet from that at all. But I do want to say, it just. got me excited about, I pulled old books out the shelf. Like Ryan said, I started buying a bunch of new books because I'm like, this guy is onto something. But beyond what you were covering, I just liked you as a human being. And let's face it, like that is really important when you're

listening to a podcast or even like reading an author. It's like, I like your voice. I like your point of view. And you, I could tell right away you're a sweet guy that I knew I could be friends with. Same with you, Ryan. You know, it's like, if I don't like think the person, whose host in the show is genuine sweet and a good person. Well, no one's information is that important. You know, I'm just not going to,

like, tune in. But let's face it, like personality, the personality behind the reporting of these wonderful, strange stories is undeniably important. And Rob, you're just such a glorious human being.

I'm so thrilled. I can't believe UFO is how it became friends. But that is the great thing about this stuff, you know, because I venture to guess that, the three of us have been into like the weird topics our whole life. And it is not the easiest thing to talk about in your daily life. You don't want to have to explain yourself because people would be like,

oh, you believe in you, aliens from another planet. I'm like, well, not exactly. But you know what I'm saying? There's a shorthand. And finding people like you, like there is a good community in UFO. So like the toxic side gets focused on a lot because it should be. But there is a beautiful side to UFOs, the paranormal cryptosololism. And it's important to highlight that and cherish it and really celebrate the people who push positivity forward.

And you two are wonderful examples. And I'll leave this with one last thing. The last 15 minutes of the last episode you did, Rob, were so great. Made me cry. I ended up like writing this like the thread about you on Twitter. And I felt bad after I hit like send on it. I was like, are people going to think Rob died? did I just write like a living eulogy?

And then I thought and I I panicked, I quickly went back to right. I'm like, no, I think I made it clear. He's just moving on to writing and other things. But like, for a second, I was like, oh shit. He's right. Like, I'm sorry. Note to self.

Do not call this episode farewell. Yeah. Yeah, I saw because I posted on Facebook too and someone like made an emoji of like, oh, few. And I was like, oh, I guess if you, the first paragraph I wrote, it does someone sound like, well, we lost a great one today. Yeah. But no, that was not.

I just got done listening to the episode, and I just like, grab my laptop and started writing, because I was so deeply moved and so proud of my friend. So I love you, buddy. Thank you so much for, like, making me still excited about this. Because your shows, they're not, like,

you can listen to them once, but then, like, you'll go back and go, like, oh, I'm interested in this topic. What was Rob's take on this case? And he'll have a beautiful take on it. So it's really important research. It's like how valets, like, you know, research is being put at Rice University,

I think our strange skies should be put at Rice University or kept at a college forever. So if humans make it 500 years from now, we still have these episodes to listen to. I appreciate that, man. That, yeah, that makes me feel all warm and fuzzy. And, yeah, we're not going to cry. We're not going to cry.

You know, yeah, like, that's really the, the best that I could ever ask for from this. And like, yeah, I'm not dying. I'm just, you know, I'm doing something else. I'm doing something that I think, you know, is going to make me happy. And it's going to, I think it's going to be great because I've done, you know, four outlines for this book now.

And I think I finally got it to, a place where I can conceivably make it happen, make it engaging, make it fun. Because, yeah, I want to write books about humanoids. And I want it to be fun for people to read. And I want people to learn things that they, you know, might never have learned before. And I think this new venture is going to be good for it. And like, welcome UFO people. The book's going to be coming out.

We're a little behind. We're a little behind on it. And, you know, that's kind of just, that's kind of the way it is with Todd. Todd's a busy dude. He's got a lot going on. But you'll actually see a book of mine out sometime soon. I think it's going to be this year. I think it's definitely going to be this year.

Todd's fast at work on it. But I think you will see a lot of, you'll see a lot of our strange skies in it, because I think it's always kind of taken a place in there because like every story that I have covered on it has been covered on the podcast. And it really feels like a natural extension of the podcast plus what Todd does, which is great. And then we're definitely doing more welcome UFO people in the future. So, yeah, the UFOs are always going to be there in one form or another. Next chapter, baby. Well, most important question, Rob.

Will our strange skies stay up? Like, will we be able to still download all the episodes and revisit? Okay. Yeah, yeah. It's not those, those aren't going anywhere. Those will be around for forever. Thank you. For everybody to enjoy, re-listen to and stuff like that.

There are a lot of, you know, there's, like, even I will go and re-listen to some of them. There are, there are a few episodes that I actually relisten to because I think they are, like, phenomenal and some of my favorites. If there's my all-time favorite episode, if you want the full insight into it. I believe it's episode 103. It's called Rachel's Eyes. And I did it with my friend, and I haven't talked to him in a while, and I miss him. His name's Sam Fredrickson. He did this podcast for a long time called The Not Alone Podcast.

Truly one of my favorite podcasts. He told the narrative better than almost anyone that I've ever seen. like his he was such a natural at it and uh i had him on that podcast and the story that we told is so weird but heartwarming and um just like a joy from top to bottom so if you want to know my favorite episode that's my favorite episode this one ever listened to more often than not especially when i'm feeling like really really down. I'm like, man, this one brings me up every time. So.

Nice. Go listen to that one. That's, that's the best we've ever done. Ah, I love that. I love that. Steve, before we go, because I want to let Rob have the final words here. Brother, let us know what you're up to, where we can find everything you're doing. And, yeah, tell us a little bit more about your show. Yeah. Well, sure, sure. My show is called High Strangeness. like I'm saying hello to strangers,

H-I-coma-strangeness, I'm a weirdo. But yeah, I do, you know, it's an interview-style show where I talk to a gentleman like yourselves and women like yourselves and animals and whatever, whatever will talk to me. But yeah, I cover a pretty wide spectrum of, you know,

the paranormal, esoteric, occult, UFOs, cryptosology, outsider art and just weird stuff. I love weird stuff. I don't see it all separately. I kind of see it as well. one big wonderful thing and with just different tentacles. So, yeah, you can find that anywhere you find podcasts. You know, my social media is Bergmaster 5000.

And yeah, I'm now doing stand-up comedy again, which is, you know, it is interesting and fun. But I'm talking a lot about, I've kind of like rewritten how I approach comedy where I'm a lot of the time talking about this kind of stuff. And some people like it. Some people won't, but, you know, it's fun for me. I'm trying to make it fun for myself. So, yeah, maybe if you see me touring around your little American town this fall or winter, come check it out. We'll talk about some weird stuff. Maybe he has some less.

I love that, man. And guys, you can catch Steve's presentation from anomicon on our website in nomicon.com. Rob's will be premiering next week. His Anomicon presentation as well. So be on the lookout for that. I had the pleasure of having both of you last year. And we do have, oh, God. No, thank you, guys.

It was a blast. And I should mention here, Anamicon 2 will be coming back September 1st and 2nd. I've already started announcing the speakers over on Anamacon.com. So you can head over there to look at who we have coming up for that. But Rob, I'm going to put you on the spot, man. I hate doing that to people. But who knows when is the. next time we're going to do this. I'm putting you on this spot, brother. Any last words you want

to say to our listeners, your listeners, yeah, as we close things out here on our farewell to our strange skies. I just want to encourage people to like follow their passions, follow their interests wherever it leads them. Sometimes it'll lead you to a podcast. Sometimes it'll lead you to, you know, writing books and going out and investigating wherever it leads you. Because the most important thing about all of this is, and this is the secret to happiness as far as I'm concerned. It's not an ending point. It's the journey. It's also community. If there's anything about this topic that is important is that it helps bring people together. And sometimes it doesn't bring them together in the nicest of ways. But it is a topic that generates community. And I think that's where it shines best is in these communities. And there were a lot of things that I said at the end of the episode that I think are important. And I think it's important to be a disruptor in the field. It's, it's important to take up space in these

fields. And I think in doing that, it becomes a more enriching experience for everybody. I also think it becomes a more enriching, enriching phenomenon because of the way that it draws people together, which is also where my beliefs on this topic have kind of ventured to is that it's less about the aliens, the UFOs, and it's more about how it inspires people, how it generates a community and really truly and brings people together. So be the best part of this community that you can. but also don't fucking lick UFOs. Like seriously, we need to stop with that shit. But don't give me that.

Oh, I'm doing what I want. You're going to regret it. Okay, even if it's a hallucination, don't. I was getting all misty-eyed. Yeah. Had to do it, man. I could not think, oh, my God, Rob, I can't think of a better way to address, man.

Rob, thank you. for the human being you are, like Steve said, man. But also thank you. Thank you so, so much for our strange skies. I appreciate it. Thank you for this, man. I never thought I would do anything that would deserve something like this. So I appreciate it, guys.

I really do. The Somewhere in the Sky's podcast is part of the Lionsgate Sound Network. Please take a moment to rate and review the show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever possible. Thank you for listening. Whatever bike you're looking for from mountain to road, either pedal powered or electric, we've got what you want ready for super fast delivery. Quality gear at prices you won't find in your average bike shop. ikeshomline.com.

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