Somewhere in the Skies - Simon Sharman: Cosmic Whistleblowers

Episode Date: July 3, 2017

On Episode 12 of SOMEWHERE IN THE SKIES: In celebration of the 70th anniversary of the 1947 Roswell crash, Ryan speaks with documentary filmmaker, Simon Sharman. They discuss his new film, Cosmic Whistleblowers. What began as one final attempt to interview the last living witnesses of the Roswell UFO incident of 1947 unexpectedly turns into a two-year investigation of the UFO investigators themselves, in what some have said is the most revealing documentary ever made about the UFO issue. With incredible interviews given by retired military personnel with Top Secret clearance, ex-NASA officials and others who became embroiled in this extraordinary event, Cosmic Whistleblowers is the final and perhaps last chance at discovering the truth on the biggest UFO mystery of the last century. Guest Bio: Simon Sharman grew up in the 1970s on a tv and film diet of Space 1999, Star Wars, and Alien, but it was 1960s tv series, The Invaders, that sticks in his mind over all the rest. During his early twenties whilst studying a business degree, he realized he wanted to make films more than making money. Since then, he's made countless films in the form of tv broadcasts across major UK channels. His work covered producing live format studio shows, music documentaries, entertainment series and even directing shoots on real life crime shows. And whilst all this was happening he was still finding the time to build what eventually became a substantial personal library on the UFO subject. He started researching UFO material in 1989 and never stopped.  Being the one topic he doesn't get bored of, he decided it was probably a good idea to make his films about this. Cosmic Whistleblowers was his debut feature film on the subject. To view the film and learn more about Simon, visit: www.cosmicwhistleblowers.com Guest and Topic Suggestions: [e-mail] Twitter: @SomewhereSkies Facebook Group: Here Order Ryan's Book by Clicking Here Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/somewhere-in-the-skies. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Ordinary people are seeing extraordinary things in our skies. But how has it changed those involved? From author Ryan Sprague, Somewhere in the Skies, a human approach to an alien phenomenon, is a personal journey that also weaves together a story of stories, furiously pumping new blood into the heart of these mysteries, one experience at a time. Now available on Amazon in paperback and ebook.

For more information, visit Somewhere in the skies.com. This is Somewhere in the Skies with Ryan Spree. Whenever the skeptics challenge us, well, why is if you don't have any whistleblowers regarding the topic of UFOs, or more specifically, Roswell? Well, we've had whistleblowers since 1947. The problem is nobody listens. When you have objects described in formerly classified government memos as being disc-shaped as invading sensitive airspace, and when you can see from the tone of the memos

that this is a very serious matter, then clearly there's something important happening. There are two photographs, two slides, where you can see the bodies. This issue has you'd been proven 50 years ago. This is a political problem. It's a political policy. You can't solve it with science. You have to solve with political engagement. We have a significant proof for the Roswell event as an extraterrestrial event.

What the world is going to do with it is up to the world. If humanity really understand. It's the importance of these, that this phenomenon is real, then the mission has been accomplished. Welcome to Somewhere in the Skies. I'm your host, Ryan Sprague, and this is episode 12. This week, we are celebrating the 70th anniversary of the Roswell incident, which is unarguably a springboard for the modern UFO era. It has been known as the case that never dies.

But, unfortunately, anyone directly connected to the incident pretty much has at this point. So when first-hand witnesses are still around to tell their stories, it is most definitely a story worth hearing. And that's exactly what this week's guest has done with his recent film, Cosmic Whistleblowers. We'll be hearing from him shortly. But first, I want to talk about something that has been bothering me lately. So please, bear with me. A little over a week ago, a video surfaced from the website Gaia.com, claiming that some sort of non-human mummy had been unearthed near Nazca in Peru. The supposed mummy has an elongated skull in three digits on its hands.

Its head also looks eerily like an alien with deep sunken eye sockets. In this video, Gaia claims that scientists use carbon dating to conclude that it was from around 245 to 410 AD. The mummy covered in an extremely well-preserved white powder or plaster is in a crouched position and was said to have been found in a cave near the Naskolines. The video went viral and was picked up. by mainstream news outlets within hours. And now it has ostensibly gone viral. Okay, this was all very interesting

until I learned who was involved with his supposed discovery. My name is Jaime Mousan. I am an investigative journalist, and I've been working as a journalist for the last 47 years of my life. Yep, you heard that right. Jaime Mousan,

the man who brought us such gems as the demon fairy and the Roswell slides, known hoaxes that all tie back to ridiculous presentations. For a fee. The Roswell Slides' debacle made international headlines as one of the biggest UFO-related hoaxes in recent history. When within 48 hours of a worldwide presentation, the Roswell slides of a supposed alien body

were proven to be nothing but a Native American mummified child. And now we find ourselves back in the mummy game. As scientists with no verifiable backgrounds are determining what exactly this current mummy is. And you can follow their developments with a subscription to Gaia.com. Gaia is completely committed to the story. We're going to let you know if it's human, if it's non-human. Like I said, our whole mission is just pure curiosity.

What could it be? And to honestly give a journalistic approach to that, that is our mission. And that's what we hope to bring to you. This is just the beginning. This is not the end. Not even with the samples. There is so much more to come. But it doesn't end here.

A recent video also went viral, stating that the anonymous hacking group had received leaked information that NASA was preparing to tell the world that they have discovered alien life. NASA, mankind, is about to discover extraterrestrial life. This was stated by the spokesman of the National Aeronautics and Space Administration

during one of the last hearings of the Committee for Science. space and technology of the United States. Are you ready for disclosure? Or are you expecting little microorganisms on a distant moon in our solar system? There are many who claim that unofficially, mankind has already made contact with aliens, and not just little microorganism floating around inside a massive alien ocean, but advanced space-faring civilizations. But with a little digging, it was determined that this video was made by some hack. No puns. intended, who created a video using anonymous stock footage and created a ridiculous statement that was soon to come from NASA.

But the video spread like wildfire. And again, major news outlets started saying that we were about to hear the news we've been waiting for all along. Alien life. And nope, it was total clickbait. And whoever created it probably profited heavily from the millions of views the video received. Now off the bat, I have to say that I have nothing. making money within the UFO field or related topics.

If you can investigate and do your research and find ways to pay your bills, right on. But when it's so blatantly obvious that hoaxes are being perpetuated for financial gain, it really gets my blood boiling. But should I really be surprised? We see this time and time again in a field and a topic begging for charlatans who will squeeze every single penny out of anyone looking for something to believe in. And while the rest of us strive to bring credibility to a self-created field, there are those who will continue to perpetuate these types of stunts for notoriety, exposure, money. And this misinformation dirties every mirror we try to stare into when we reflect on being taken seriously.

For every piece of evidence brought forward or credible witness that shares their information, there's a questionable character claiming that a mummy is an alien, and that an alien is a human is. It comes down to this, guys. The UFO field is its own greatest enemy. We've known this for a long time, and it continues. The most sensational information is what gets out there, and it's masked in fantasy and just straight up hoaxing. But more than anything, it misinforms the public of the genuine cases, the evidence and the researchers who spend their time,

their talents, their intelligence, and their own resources to investigate a phenomenon that, frankly, could care less about revealing any shred of evidence or answer. So my question is this. Why make things worse? And how do we stop these clear and present tricksters and fraudsters before they spread like a virus? I don't have an answer, but I have hope.

Hope that the people I bring on this program are not trying to muddy the waters. Exaggerate claims or evidence, or straight up lie to my face. digitally, usually. I will call bullshit when I hear it. I will challenge my guests when I feel it's necessary. And I ask you to do the same with me.

If you feel I'm adding to the problem by having a certain guest on, or I cover something you know to be false, or I'm gravely misinformed on, please reach out to me. Sprague at somewhere in the skies.com. All right, I am getting off my soapbox now. And I want to introduce today's guest, Simon Sharman. Simon's new film, Cosmic Whistleblowers. began as one final attempt to interview the last living witnesses of the Roswell UFO incident of 1947,

and his film unexpectedly turns into a two-year investigation of the UFO investigators themselves, and what some have said is the most revealing documentary ever made about the UFO issue. With incredible interviews given by retired military personnel with top secret clearance, ex-NASA officials and others became embroiled in this extraordinary event, Cosmic Whistleblowers is the final and perhaps last chance at discovering the truth on the biggest UFO mystery of the last century. But more importantly, it sheds light on the intellectual ghetto of the UFO community. Simon had a front row seat at the entire Roswell Slides disaster and how it unfolded, and he'll talk in depth about it on the show. This interview is raw. It's personal and it's honest.

I hope you enjoy our conversation with Simon Charmin. Simon, thank you so much for joining me today. Ryan, it's my pleasure. It's good to be here. So I found your film on a whim. I happened to be surfing the internet. It popped up, and I had to give it a try. And as a UFO researcher, I'm always skeptical of documentaries on UFOs. From individuals who, A, either I haven't heard of or B, it's just not in the wheelhouse of what I'm used to.

But with cosmic whistleblowers, I was hooked from the start, Simon, because what could have been a film just about Roswell, it turned into something far deeper than that, almost a sociological examination of the UFO field. That's not something we see often. So we'll definitely get into that in the interview. But I want to start where these things often do, Simon, and that's how did you get interested in this topic

and how did this film really come about? How did I get into UFOs? That goes back to the year 1989 or maybe 1990. I was actually a part-time pizza delivery guy the year before I went to university, and Tim Good actually came on the radio, BBC Radio 2, 10 o'clock slot, and he started talking about all this, you know, government cover-up stuff, UFO cover-ups, alien visitations, all the kinds of things that we're very familiar with hearing about now. Bearing in mind in 1989, there was no internet.

at that time, the X-Files were about four years away from being released. The kind of things he was saying was just so out there that it really took my head off because he seemed like a very sober guy, very well-spoken kind of Queens-English type approach. So then I went out, bought his book, you know, and the rest from there grew from there because obviously there was just a whole, there's a whole bunch of information that really wasn't in the public domain unless you had an interest. So that's what sparked it back then. But as I'm sure you know yourself, speaking about the topic back then would really put you out in the fringes and have people looking at you weirdly.

Things have changed a bit in the last 20 years. But anyway, so that's how I got into it. In the midst of that, actually in about 1994, 95, I then had, well, I've actually had two sightings, but I then had probably my major sighting, I'd say, which, you know, was one of these, I mean, I say major sighting. It was a light in the sky, but it was very low. It was silent. It was late at night. I actually followed it in my car for a while down the motorway. Yeah, I actually, you know, I tried to chase the cigarette.

It sounds ridiculous. I couldn't, I kept up with it for about three or four miles. And eventually the motorway and it parted company. But, but yeah, it was a crazy thing. It wasn't an aircraft. It wasn't a chopper. It was silent. It was very low.

It's like a red disc. It was a weird thing. So that happened in 94. And that was basically how I got into the subject. In terms of the film, that was kind of a coincidence. A good friend of mine told me that Jesse Marcel was visiting the country back in 2007. Jesse Marcel, Jr., of course, being the son of the chap who cleared up Roswell back in 47. And I didn't want to miss up the chance to meet with him.

So I made my way over. And we went to this little event in West Yorkshire. And it was fantastic. Jesse was an absolute diamond of a human being, I've got to say, real gent, real sweetheart. And more importantly, he was just so compelling when he spoke about, you know, his whole connection to the case. His dad given him parts of the wreckage before they took it, took it away and what he thought of it. And he was just such a genuine guy. And it's really, when you in the company of someone who was around at the time, it's just really very difficult to dismiss them out immediately.

So that was a big thing. And then at this event, actually Don Schmidt was also there. And of course, Don, who plays a big part in this documentary, he basically started a conversation with myself about having access to new witnesses and whatnot. And that's when the idea kind of began to churn. So that was back in around 2008. In terms of those witnesses you decided to bring forth, Simon, the film brings us one that really I found fascinating, which was Gary Ennis.

And while you travel to Roswell to actually film this documentary, and he had a very interesting story to tell you. Would you mind touching on the story of Gary Ennis? Yeah, sure. Well, Gary's story actually related back to his father, who was a flight engineer with top secret clearance at the Roswell base in 47. So he was actually there on the day that the whole event happened. And Gary's story kind of came to me in two parts.

First of all, like I said, his dad had top secret clearance was a flight engineer connected to all those people that were around the whole Roswell crash at the time. For years and years and years, I mean, in the film it's condensed and it's, as I'm sure you can imagine in documentaries, you know, we're filmed for quite a long time and then you get like two or three minutes on screen. But essentially, the point of Gary's story was, for years, his dad never spoke about it to him, never ever, to any of the family, even though they knew he was at Roswell at the time of the crash.

And of course, back in the 80s, the stories had even broke again, re-broken again, and even then he hadn't spoken about it. So it wasn't until very late on in his life that his dad basically opened up to his Gary's sister, his daughter, who basically, who basically, this is kind of what happened essentially that his dad got very ill at one point was very close to death and off the back of that his sister had been to visit him and essentially he pulled his sister into speak to her just before she left and just he just said look I just have to say that you know before you go this thing was real it was a UFO it did happen now look these are secondhand witnesses aren't they you know they're not direct

witnesses. This is, you know, sons of the person who was there. So in some respects, they're just stories, I guess, right? They are literally just stories. However, on the other hand, you know, I guess that Gary had no reason to make this stuff up. He certainly seemed like a very genuine guy. I mean, he was an ex-military guy himself. He'd served in Narm. He'd served in situations where he was under classification laws and whatnot for some time. So he did strike me as a very bona fide witness and his story hadn't been mentioned before and he was a connection to the case and I think anybody with any kind of new connection was worthy of putting on camera which was the whole point of this of this documentary in the first place because obviously roswell was a long time ago we're coming

up to the 70 year anniversary but I thought you know that it's been done so many times I think it's worth doing one last time with the final witnesses that are still around where we can find them because obviously they're not going to be around for too long absolutely And, I mean, there are going to be listeners to this episode in specific who probably haven't ever even heard of the crash. They probably heard the word, Roswell. They probably remember that god-awful C.W. show and whatnot. But they're not going to know what happened there. So I think something like what your film brings forth, this sleek, very chronological timeline of events of Roswell is essential and great for the new generation.

So while I agree with you, we don't have firsthand witnesses any longer. It's sort of fading into obscurity at this point, keeping the case alive and showing possibly the Air Force that, you know, we don't accept your answers on what this possibly was. I think that's great. And we may never know. No, sure, sure. And I wanted to pick up actually on something you said at the outset, which was, you know, first of all, you may have been skeptical about a documentary that if you didn't know the person behind it or why. why it was being made. And in fact, that really touches on one of the reasons why I made this film in the first place.

I mean, my background is broadcast television, and I've been very tired over the years of seeing documentaries about UFOs fall into one or two camps. They're either way too skeptical and way too cynical about what may be, or for me, and this is with the greatest respect to the sci-fi channel or not Gio, they are way too exploitative. an OTT and two overly melodramatic. I really felt that there was a place for a documentary that was very sober-minded,

gave the witnesses the voice and the time that they deserved without ridicule and letting the audience decide for themselves on the facts presented as we find them. And I thought it was doing that with a view to having an open mind that, okay, we don't know what it is. I'm not going to go in with the fact that this is definitely X, Y, or Z, but I am going to go in with the idea that it's possible. It's absolutely potentially theoretically possible that this really happened. Because otherwise, I would argue why go about making a film like this in the first place? If I was just going in to knock it or to

poo-poo the idea or, you know, I just don't get what the point is of that. So my idea was always to present the facts as best I could, as rationally as I could, whilst keeping an open mind. the whole way through. But of course, keeping a critical mind at the same time. And, you know, it's not always an easy thing to do in filmmaking, but that was my, my MO, and that's what I tried very, very hard to do right through filming and right through to the edit as well. Right. Yeah. I think that's very important. I mean, with a documentary, I would assume that it's an organic process. What you go in with originally may change throughout the course of the entire filming. And that was very true, I would say for your film, which we will definitely get to.

Oh, God, yeah. Oh, yeah. Well, going back to the Roswell case, Simon, another individual you spoke to who I've actually met in person at one point and who is just so heartfelt when it comes to this is Frankie Roe. She's a very interesting piece to the Roswell story. Could you give us a little bit about who Frankie Roe is and how she's connected to the Roswell incident? Sure. It's funny actually because Frankie Roe, it turns out, becomes, depending on the perspective, actually becomes potentially more controversial as time goes on. And as you first say, can I just say, another absolute sweetheart of a human being and a lovely person was really generous with a time. And it was actually great to spend some time with her because obviously she's so central to the story. Essentially, that being that her father at the time, Dan Dwyer, was one of the first on scene at the crash site. Now, the way that's portrayed through, actually not through Frankie herself, but actually through one of the other witnesses in the film, who was actually her brother-in-law for a time at the time, who'd spoken to her father, basically Ken put it over, as other people have, that essentially he was first on scene with the fire crew.

Now, it's actually Kevin Randall, who I'm sure you're familiar with. It was actually Kevin who pointed out to me after the event that, in fact, Frankie's father, Dan, was first on scene, but on his own is the way the story is told, via other people that were based at that fire station. So the story goes that her dad drove out there himself in his own vehicle and essentially found. Now, again, you don't get all of this on camera in the film because Frankie Rose is quite well known if people are familiar with Roswell or the case in general. but for those who aren't, basically her dad was witness to not only debris on the field, but according to Frankie, and she told me this and some of this doesn't make the final cut, he did see creatures, and then her story kind of gets really involved insofar as these creatures kind of gave her dad

the sense that they weren't dangerous. And it kind of goes down a rabbit hole that I've got to be honest, I was finding pretty hard to follow. Doesn't end up in the film this part, but the part that does end up in the film is the fact that he brought some of the wreckage back to the firehouse. This is part of the established story and facts that people tend to accept

in terms of research on the Roswell case. And they were playing with this material, and Frank Oro was off school at the time with a tooth abyss she was in the fire station, and essentially she got to hold some of this material in her own hands herself. and she basically describes what you would arguably call memory metal nowadays. I mean, stuff that's light as a feather, crumbles up and then goes back to its original form.

I mean, the stuff she's describing really is like something out of a film. So that's kind of her story. What's really interesting about her story is that she's always said that her parents had been threatened with being putting prison. Should they speak about it at the time and they got threatened? And she remembers that, something that she recounts in cosmic whistleblowers. Well, she does say this time, however, and this again came via Don Schmidt, who set this interview up and helped me get to Frankie. He basically made the point that she got new things to say on it.

And part of this new aspect was the fact that they threatened to kill her, threatened to split them up, bury them in the desert. And it was really kind of a dark tale. Now, according to other researchers out there, that's not necessarily what she started out saying a few years ago. So it's very difficult to actually get a real handle on where the story, where the facts end and where the memory starts to kick in. And that, I guess, is something only the viewers can decide for themselves. Due to a phone outage on my house phone, a telephone repairman discovered that I had a wire on my phone that was transmitting everything that came in or went out to.

some other location. It could not have been there when I bought the house because I had my service put in, repairmen were out there, someone installed it for whatever purpose I don't know. But in terms of a secondhand witness, there's no doubt about it. She was definitely there. Her dad was definitely involved in this case in a big way how far people want to go to believe what he or she said about it at the time. Well, that's up to them. But she does come out with some pretty crazy, crazy claims. But, you know, she's always, to be fair to her, by the way, she's always made the same points that Dan, her dad was there, he did find the stuff, she did hold the material, it was real, they did get threatened, it was a UFO, and they were aliens.

That's basically what she says. And that's the story we've come to know so well. But I would imagine it's tough when, you know, everyone, people from all over the world are coming to interview you and there's the proverbial wanting to up the ante every time. We hear this very often. Yeah, I think you might be right. And I certainly hope I didn't add to that pressure on her to do that. It certainly wasn't anything I was conscious of when we were sat in the interview. But I think you could be right. That could play a part. I mean, from my point of view, again, I'll just have to say that I found her very, very compelling. I mean, we had a very long conversation. And there's no doubt for me that she's definitely directly related to this case and she really believes what

she puts over. So on that basis alone, at least I think she's worthy of, she's always worthy of being an integral part of this story and any film about Roswell. I agree for sure. In terms of a firsthand witness, Simon, you did actually get to speak to somebody while you were in Roswell. And it's very controversial. And this was Arthur Ossip. Chuk. And his story, really stood out to me personally in terms of possible bodies being found. Would you care to tell us a little about Arthur and what he possibly witnessed? Sure. I mean, for me, this was probably the most compelling, fascinating, favorite part of my entire journey on this film, I'd say.

Ozzy Ossup Shuck, as he asked to be called, was, first of all, again, I've just got to say, what an amazing guy. I don't just mean on a personal level, but I mean, his actual story before the Roswell event was just so crazy. I actually wanted to be able to expand this section of the film. And in fact, I may be putting it out as an extra thing later on because his story was just unbelievable.

First of all, he'd served in World War II. In the film, if you, the sharp observers amongst you, would actually notice that he points to a picture of one of these bombers coming down with the tail off, this black and white picture in the documentary. We don't touch on it in the documentary, but funnily enough, he was actually in that plane when the tail had been blown off and it was crashing. It was crashing back down to earth.

It was actually taken by one of his comrades at the time. He crashed back down. He then became a Japanese POW for, I don't know how long it was, where he had an absolutely terrible, terrible time. this all happened before it even had anything to do with Roswell. So his story started way, way back. But anyway, I traveled out to Mobile Alabama to interview him. His family were just amazing.

You know, we spent the afternoon with him. They were just great, great people. And he's, you know, he'd be probably the first to admit. He's no spring chicken now, Ozzy. He was probably, I think, 89, 90 when we saw him, which was back in 2013. But he was really gracious with his time. And, yeah, back to his story.

I mean, basically he had top secret clearance was a gunner on the 509th, the 509th Wing Command Group, that essentially were the air crew responsible for dropping the atom bomb during World War II. He wasn't actually on that plane, but he was part of that same crew, that same outfit. On around July 6th,

when the whole Roswell crash occurred, he was actually, I think he was actually on a break, or he was kind of on the basement not doing anything, but because they were short on staff and he was the nearest on hand, essentially what happened was his commanding officer came in and said, you, you, you and you come with me.

They threw him and a few of them on, not his plane, but on one of the other bombers. Now, you've got to imagine these planes were huge. They had these big doors that dropped the bomb that was just massive at the time. So these planes were big things. And essentially, in just a few, beats, I guess what happened here was

he was witness to something being loaded onto the plane but they wouldn't let him see what was being loaded onto his own aircraft. And this was what whatever had been wreckaged from the crash at Roswell or just

outside Roswell, this is what they were transporting. This is what it was, 100%. And they were taking this out to write Pat, or Fort Worth, I beg you pardon, a couple of days later. And not only was he not allowed to see what was being loaded onto it. When they got to the other end,

normally they're allowed to get off the plane, have lunch or whatever. They'd been given a packed lunch and the Bombay doors was all covered. So whoever it was at the other end at Fort Worth took this stuff off the plane, whatever it was, he wasn't even allowed to see being unloaded. Now the point he makes to me was

at the time he had the highest top secret clearance that he knew of because he was literally on the plane that was dropping the atom bomb. or could arguably drop that bomb. So top secret clearance didn't get any higher than it did than he had in terms of active military personnel. So the fact that he wasn't allowed to view what was put on his own aircraft, well, first of all, it was absolute first for him. It had never happened before. It had actually never happened to him since he told me subsequently.

It never happened to him again. And of course he couldn't possibly fathom why it would happen at a time. all considering his position. Now, on top of that, what they did say when they go back was, and he does touch on this in the film, which I just thought was incredible, he says that, again, his commanding officers, when they got back, said, listen, this thing never happened. You don't talk to your wives about it. You don't talk to your friends about it.

And you don't even talk to each other about it ever again. You know, that's pretty compelling testimony, I'd say, on anybody's stakes. Yes, especially for someone who's, you know, had top secret clearance for so long, you have to wonder how higher does it go from what, you know, from where Arthur was in terms of that. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, sure, yeah. I mean, I've got to say, first of all, clearly it was not a weather blue. And that's the first thing I guess we can probably dismiss just from that. Just an interesting side to this story. He did tell me this, again, this didn't make the final cut. But he told me an interesting story before I left. This was at a,

at some kind of military dinner, honors dinner, like many years later, I'm talking like two or three decades later after World War II, or sorry, after 47. And he was at this dinner

and he was, you know, I guess he was probably in his 60, maybe in his 70s then, I'm not sure. And apparently this, this military guy, it was a senior guy,

very decorated guy, came up behind him when he was sat at this dinner with his wife and, or sorry, not his wife, his,

his, his, his, and he just whispered in his ear, said, God, do you know what you took that day? It was the real thing or it was what it was. And he basically made this big inference and, in fact, it was something to do with a UFO or aliens because obviously that was the big rumor, even back then. That was the rumor because obviously they'd announced catching and flying saucer.

And he turned around and this high-ranking military official had kind of gone down into the crowd. And honestly, the way he described this story to Miran, it was kind of. Kind of like something that you'd see in an episode of the X-Files or something. It was just crazy. But he was absolutely adamant about this part of the story. In fact, he was more animated about this part of the story, I think, than recounting the stuff in 47, maybe because his memory was clear on it. But, you know, I'm sorry I couldn't put it into the film, but I just thought, again,

it was just another little compelling slice. And he was convinced that this guy, he said, I don't know. Was he playing a joke on me? Who was it? He says, I've no idea, but it seemed very serious. And it's something that's stuff. with him for, you know, well, until this very day. Well, I definitely look forward to possibly seeing that as a deleted scene, Simon.

Please. Yeah, no, sure. Absolutely. I've got to sort that out, actually. So, yeah. Well, from your initial visit to Roswell, Simon, to assist in a dig for possible artifacts, which was really interesting, you then, you moved into something that, okay, the UFO community now considers a dark mark on its forehead.

And that is the Roswell Slides. And you personally had a peripheral connection early on to this entire, I guess, circus of events around the Roswell Slides. This made international headlines. This was all over the news, not in the best of ways eventually. But could you tell us how this all happened, the entire Roswell Slides Tobacco, and how you got connected to this? Okay. Right. I need to get comfortable here.

Just get my memory off. It's, this was, this was a really fortuitous thing for me because initially my film had only been around the, the Roswell case and the last living witnesses. That was the whole point of making my film. It just so happened at the time. When I decided I was making this film and I put something out on social media to basically say, look, I'm making this film. If you want to stick a few quid in, a few dollars into help, that'd be great because I'm making it literally on no money, no backing and all the rest. of it, I was contacted anonymously, as it were, by someone who basically asked me the question if this was anything to do with the Roswell slides. Now, back at that time, first of all,

the Roswell slides weren't in the public domain at all. We're talking very early 2013 here, so only those people literally directly connected to the slides would have known about them. And I didn't know who the person was because it came through an anonymous type email address via onto my Kickstarter campaign. And essentially, I then flagged this up with Don Schmidt, who obviously was helping me get access to the dig and the witnesses. And Don's reaction was just priceless. I mean, I wish I'd recorded this phone call. It was quite something. He almost jumped out of his skin when I told him that somebody was asking about this. So, you know, we had to make this emergency phone call. He wanted to know who it was and what they'd asked and all this. And I was like, well, look, I don't

have a clue. First of all, who this guy is. And secondly, I don't even know what he's talking about. So do you want to tell me what he's talking about? And, you know, he was very, initially he was very reluctant to get into detail, clearly for obvious reasons now. But he did open up a little bit and he started to tell me what was going on and started to get into this whole thing that someone had found these slides, et cetera, et cetera. And that's when I knew I thought, right, okay, now we've got a film.

Because, I mean, I've got to, can I just say, by the way, Ryan, for the record, and I made this point publicly on social media and to, friends and people anywhere I could at the time, I never once, for one second, believe that anybody on this planet would be having pictures of a dead alien that were just out in the public. It was just such a ridiculous notion from the outset for me. However, that being said, it was always obvious to me that this would make, obviously was going to be big news in some respects, even if only within the UFO community itself. And to have a ringside seat as I did, which also gave me kind of actually inside access

and to have that kind of door and the timing of it was just too good an opportunity to miss. So I essentially pushed it with Don. I said, look, of course we want to, you know, include this in the film as much as we can, da-di-da-di-da. And that's when he started to get very, yes. Well, actually, initially, it was all full of promises. Yes, of course, I'll give you full access.

I'm, you know, I'm very close with the person who's found the slides. We'll sort this out. it's going to be great. I was like, okay, this is amazing. You know, this is going to be an interesting film, at the very least, an interesting slice on uphology in the uphology community. And then people who, when they get around to watching the film, or like yourself, when you've seen it, you'll,

you'll note that my weight for this actually went on and on and on. And actually, from the beginning of me starting the film to actually getting towards the end was probably the period of around two years. I mean, this was a long, this was a long wait. But as it turns out, I don't want to maybe give too much away, although, you know, it is a documentary, essentially. It's not a drama, though it does play out a bit like one. Essentially, Adam Dew was the owner of the slides, was also making his own film about the slides.

It makes commercial sense, of course, now I can see looking back. And essentially, what happened was I was getting my nose pushed out, but I didn't know it at the time. Luckily for me, it was Jaime Mousan who had basically taken ownership of then presenting these slides that was going to be in 2015. And because Hyman and I had been lost in the New Mexico desert together at the dig back in 2013, and we kind of bonded a bit then, because we believe me, we really were lost. That was a wonderful comedic part in the film. I definitely suggest viewers watching. Well, comedic, when you, when you're watching it. Not of us were laughing too long. But no, so we, yeah, so we've been lost when we went out to the dig and whatnot.

So we already knew each other. And basically, Haimu was just really very open about it. Obviously, I'd been in touch with him and said, look, I hear that now you're running this event on the slides. And at this point, Don had basically, you know, for once for a better word, had just stopped replying to my emails in which I couldn't understand why. So obviously, I wasn't just going to sit back and just let that happen. You know, we're in the middle of trying to make this film. So I took it upon myself to speak with Jaime who said,

yeah, look, of course, come. I'll show you, you know, show you the slides. You can film this event, da-di-da-di-da. So then I, you know, I ended up going to Mexico City and then and then filming the whole B-Witness on think or de Mayo, which I've got to say was an experience, Ryan. It was an experience. I can only imagine. Yeah, for those who really want to get an insider's view of the Roswell Slides debacle as it played out, definitely see the movie. I loved it because, you know, we all were watching with bated breath to see what happened, and it was not what we all had hoped for, possibly what we expected, as we often do with this topic. But, yeah, very interesting.

That was kind of the lynchpin for the film. You move from Roswell and this idea that the entire film was going to be about Roswell to something else. It really became a new film from that point on, I think. I found that very fascinating. One of the people you spoke to was Richard Dolan, historian, a UFO researcher, my publisher, I must add, so I'm a bit biased. But he spoke about this on a podcast, actually, in my premier episode. But this idea that political and academic institutions have been manipulated by mainstream media when it comes to UFOs. This was a very bold statement, I think, by Dolan, but we do see it playing out more and more as time goes.

on, do you necessarily agree with this statement, Simon? And if so, what evidence do you think there is to promote this idea? Well, first of all, let me say that I'm not a euphological historian as Rich Dolan is and don't have anywhere near the kind of knowledge that people do that basically spend, you know, their professional life researching this stuff. I'm someone with an interest. I'm a filmmaker. I'm an ex-broadcaster.

Well, current broadcaster myself, I should say. So I work within the media. that said, I do think that there's a case to be made that, certainly historically speaking, that the media has, I don't know if I want to say downplayed events, because they either downplay them or they make them completely ridiculous. I mean, you can't say that they always ignore UFO events because sometimes, you know, whether it's the Inquirer in the US

or the Sun or other tabloys over here, they'll blow them up and they'll, you know, my husband, you know, had sex with an alien, this kind of state, this kind of stuff goes out too. But in terms of whether there's been any control, I'm always of the idea that, although I'm absolutely certain that there are people behind the curtain, as it were, pulling strings, I'm absolutely certain of that. There always has been, there always will be. I am not an advocate at all of the fact that there are literally two or three people on the planet literally running the show for their own evil gains. Life just doesn't work like that. And in my experience, the media doesn't work like that. The media, okay, Obviously, arguably, it's controlled by a handful of organizations and generally they're more right wing. Yeah, granted, I get all that. And they're also, actually, I would argue, certainly in the UK, more conservative with a small C in terms of their policies, in terms of what they broadcast, in terms of their approach to broadcasting. Does that mean that there's a conspiracy in terms of how they present UFO material to the world?

I would say no. There are exceptions. In this country, we've got something called a denotis. So basically, that's when the government gags the press. It's kind of like a what would the equivalent in the US be a national security type gag, you know, that we have over here. I know that exists to a point. My only experience I can say that I know of it was the Wendlesham Forest case. Back in the day when Stanton Friedman was over here, not very long after that event happened, very long time ago.

He was doing a talk and I was following it. Anyway, I was in the audience and we were talking about the whole Rendlesham thing and it hadn't actually been in the press over here at the time. And I'm pretty sure that was down to a D-noticed because they weren't really allowed to talk about it. Now, was it because there was a UFO involved? Possibly. What I'm absolutely certain, though, is the fact that this US base actually, Rendlesham was at the time, a US base.

It was actually a nuclear air base in our country. And it was a nuclear base that wasn't meant to exist because we weren't meant to have them on our soils, et cetera. And in fact, publicly we didn't. So in terms of secrecy, the media absolutely would have been controlled not to speak about it because if nuclear arms are involved and they weren't meant to be, then clearly they could lock that up. So yes, they can control the media when they need to, governments I'm talking about here. And yes, I'm absolutely certain they do it when it comes to UFOs. What personal knowledge or expertise do I have of it myself, or very little other than the kind of example I've just said there. Right. Well, examples like Rendell Shum are very telling. And I agree with you. I don't believe that there are, you know, this new world order controlling every single broadcast that goes out through every local news station throughout the entire world. It's just like you said. The world doesn't spin that way. Life doesn't work that way.

So I think things like what you do, making an independent documentary, are the ways in which the public should digest their news and their information. And another connection you found, Simon, was between the Clintons here in the United States and Lawrence Rockefeller. This is very interesting. Could you maybe run us through this a little bit? Well, I'll certainly try my best. I mean, it's quite complicated, if I recall. But Steve Bassett probably would do this much better. better than I, and clearly Steve is the person who gave me the information on this.

Well, he actually filled out the gaps. I mean, the information's out there, but he certainly did a good job of filling the gaps. But, yeah, essentially, this is Lawrence Rockefeller who always had an interest in UFOs. And way back in the early 90s when the Clintons were running the presidential dynasty back then, they were approached by Rockefeller to essentially open all of the UFO files. literally all of them. And that's what Bill Clinton had been asked to do by him. So there was a connection there between obviously him and the Clintons. Now, you may ask, well, why would he do that? Well, how could he do that? Well, Rockefeller was a big donor to the Clintons and undoubtedly

probably helped them get into office in the first place. So I guess, you know, when it comes to these donors, I guess that these candidates, these elected presidents, they're going to have to listen to the people who bankroll them, right? I would think. So it seems that there was an effort made, certainly on the surface by Bill Clinton, who said it publicly as well. He said it on Jimmy Kimmel again, didn't he, back in 2013, 2014 around them, was it 2015? But anyway, he said it again that he admitted that, you know, he did try and open those files. He does, of course, say that they didn't get opened and he wasn't told anything. But, hey, you know, we've seen him lie on camera a few times under oath and stuff. So for me, that doesn't really mean anything what he said. So, yeah, there was an

interesting connection there between the Rockefellers in Clintons and the Clintons. And what was more interesting maybe for the film's point of view and from my perspective was there was a lot going on at the time, Ryan, when I made this film. And that's why actually, I think there's so much more in it that maybe meets the eye in terms of maybe the title of the film or some of the blur when people read it. But there was so much going on in 2013, 2014 with the whole UFO topic. And by that, I mean, that at the same time as this whole Clinton's thing, Clinton's Rockefeller thing was kind of surfacing in the press via other researchers, by the way, work of US researchers that was. This was also then when Podesta comes back on the scene.

Now, Podesta was at the time, he was, I think, the chairman, he was basically in Obama's administration in some capacity. You'll probably know better than me exactly what that capacity was. But back in the day, he'd been part of the Clinton administration. That's right. He'd been the chair of the Clinton administration. That's right. Hadn't he'd been the transition team for Obama. That's right. And yeah, basically, he'd always always been an advocate of the UFO open movement, as it were. And he'd made this public statement back in around, I think it was around 95, 96, that, you know, the Americans can handle the truth. You know, he famously, Paradig Nicholson and all of that. So he was a famous, you know, he was this kind of, you know, really high up personally. And back in 2014, 2015, he was actually. He was actually in the White House at the time. And then he put this tweet out saying, my biggest regret of 2013 was not getting access

to the UFO files. It was like, my God, this is just too much. You know, this was actually, it was mental. I mean, for me, this was just before I was flying out to Mexico for Be Witness. I'd done the last witnesses for Roswell in the film. It was all kind of coming together. So obviously, my initial reason for going to D.C.,

apart from to speak to Bassett and as many people as I could, Stephen Jay Dick, of course, as well, Chief Historian of NASA for five years, who also has an interesting theory on the alien question, but I'll come back to that if we get time. But back to Podesta, he'd made this statement, and I just thought, well, obviously, I'm going to have to aim for him. No, you know, as a journalist myself,

someone who's kind of worked in TV and broadcasting for a while, obviously, you know, there are ways to get to these people. So I basically spent several, months trying to get access to pedestrian. I managed to get his direct number and I was leaving him message after message after message on his voicemail. Wasn't responding surprisingly because I wanted a statement for the film. So anyway, in the end, I sent him a few emails and whatnot. And the funny thing is anybody who does any research into WikiLeaks and all of that stuff, which is also going off at the time and subsequent to that, will actually see that my email's requesting

time with him actually appears in his emails, which he actually clearly, you know, he just didn't even respond to anyway. So that was an interesting aside in that respect. So I was actually trying to get to pedestrian DC didn't happen in the end. But back to Bassett, he was a great, a great source of information, of course, on the whole, not just the disclosure thing, which of course, again, was actually going on at around 2013. This was just happening in the same year or the 2014. I can't I mean, which year in it was now. It's going back a bit. So there was all these things going on. And of course, Bassett was someone else I just had to speak to. So he was great value. And he, yeah, he kind of outlined that whole Rockefeller Clinton connection and also brought us up to date

with the whole political angle to the UFO subject in the US and how they relate to each other and how it's, you know, it's a complicated relationship. And obviously, one that the disclosure people try to push is something that can be that can be changed so yeah that does become a part of the narrative I'm trying to remember your question now but yeah it becomes I guess part of the narrative of the film and it all kind of got

rolled into into one very complicated debate subject thing to look at and I try my best to unpick the threads and just make sense of it really and that's I guess that's all I could do he clearly has an agenda in mind and that is

disclosure that that's it He wants the truth out, this embargo ended on the truth behind UFO secrecy, and he's made himself an advocate to do that. And like you mentioned, he did have this event, the citizen hearing on disclosure, which is very interesting. You know, retired Congress members were put on a panel, and they were told by the UFO community, by military officers, by government officials, you know, that there is something to this. We need to look into it. Simon, what do you gather about this event, the citizen hearings? Do you personally feel that this event did anything to bring us closer to that possible disclosure? Well, I've got to say that I think anybody who makes any effort in this field in any way,

let alone the kind of gargantuan effort that Steve Bassett put on and his, whoever helped him do that, all those people are put him together. I've got to say anybody who gets involved in that way, yes, they are by definition. for me pushing the argument forward. And they are, by definition, helping the cause, quote and quote, or helping at least get rid of some of the lies or the deceit or the cover-up that goes on. Whether they get anywhere or not is a different thing. But are they helping?

Yeah, of course, because they're putting the story out there and they're putting it out there to the public, and they're putting it out there in the most credible, authentic, and objective way that they can. and I think that has to be applauded, no doubt about it. I remember at the time when it happened, I was, I mean, I was watching it kind of live at the time and unfolding, like I said, around the time of, in the middle of this film, actually. And it did seem like it was a really big deal from the outside that somebody was making

such a huge effort in terms of, as you say, ex-congress people being put in this kind of, kind of pseudo-congessional hearing, as it were. I mean, obviously, you know, it turns out after we know that they were paid to be there, I think it's 20,000 bucks, or is it per person or maybe 10,000 bucks. And I, you know, that kind of at the time made me kind of go, oh, well, that's kind of a shame. But obviously these people weren't there for the good of their health, and I kind of understand from their point of view, the reasons for doing that, who wouldn't? I would say that, though, the way they put it together, the way they presented it, I think

Bassett and the team did the absolute best thing they could do with the means that they had and the access that they had and to replicate this what would be a congressional hearing. I think it was a great thing and I think it should be applauded. What impact it had on the general subject going forward in a wider sense, I don't know, maybe a medium-sized drop in a big ocean, I don't know, but still worth doing. And, you know, I'll take my hat to him. Absolutely. I couldn't agree more. I guess only time will tell in terms of if this disclosure ever happens.

We were promised by Steve Bassett every four years or so that it's going to happen. Well, I've got to, yeah, I mean, I've got to say, I mean, I agree with the man, Rich Dolan on this, really, that, and he said this to me back in the film, we discussed it. And I know he said it subsequently that there's just no way on earth that if there is any truth or whatever truth there is to this subject, that governments are just going to come out. and release information and tell people, it's just never going to happen like that. I absolutely agree with this sentiment. I think there's no reason. And the only reason they would ever do it is if they were backed into a corner or it was for their own gain, etc., etc. So I'm really of that mindset.

So in terms of whether or not it would actually help any disclosure from an official point of view, I think definitively not. I think what it does do is hopefully open up the debate to the wider public, who may still think it's all of it's stupid until they maybe see something where you've got really credible witnesses and credible ex-congress people making a point that actually they've got something that they should be heard. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

And every ear counts at this point. So we'll take what we can get. Well, Simon, I want to sort of move into your work as a filmmaker, your personal adventures and opinions and stuff on this whole experience. I can imagine it was a vast array of emotions and opinions. As the filmmaker, what is one of the most interesting things you encountered with filming cosmic whistleblowers? There's an old saying in documentary making, I think,

that a good friend of mine reminded me of several times during the film and after I was trying to finish the film, in that when it's wrong, it's right. So what was actually a really difficult three years for me making this film And believe me, Ryan, it was an absolute battle to get this film finished You've got to imagine I had very little in terms of backing or support I did have some key support of course But very little of it

And it was for all intents and purposes me and myself and I for three years It was a really challenging thing to stick with Because as I said before I was kind of pushed out halfway through the whole journey of the of the story. I've got to say that coming from a point of view of someone who was kind of open-minded, I mean, basically initially, I was in Roswell to shine a light on a new dig that Schmidt and the team were doing and just, you know, speak to witnesses off the back of that in a very open-minded light. To go from that to being the person almost pushed out of the

whole event and kind of made me wonder about the aspects of the UFO community itself. and I don't think it does itself any favour sometimes. I really don't. If I'd been given maybe slightly different treatment or I'd been kind of, I hadn't had the door shut in my face quite so much, then I don't think I'd have the opinion I have now. And I've got to say this.

I think there are individuals within the UFO community who basically ultimately are more interested in their own arena than they are the wider picture. And of course, euphology is an area that's full with characters and different kinds of people, and that's what makes it interesting. And it's actually what makes the film interesting, I've got to say. And I've no issue with people anywhere, actually,

that's in the film or not on any personal level. But for an objective point of view, I think that the community, in some regards, really needs to get its act together. That's what I think. I think it can be its own worst enemy. I mean, the whole point of it is opening up information and not being, you know, secretive about the information you've got and withholding stuff,

the whole point of it is sharing it, right, right? The whole point is getting it out there so we can all decide on what's real and what isn't real. And I think when it comes to a situation where research groups or investigators aren't just being open all the time and just saying, look, this is what we've got, then I just don't think it helps the case. And, you know, from my point of view in this film, it certainly didn't help the Roswell slides to people in this case at all. And as we all know, it actually

turned around and bit them on the ass. And again, you know, for my point of view, you know, for me, I still got a very interesting story on recorded and we had it from the inside and I was very grateful for it. And it was a fascinating story. But from the UFO community's point of view, I just think they could have done a better job.

You know, there's way too much infighting in the community. I guess it's because there's so many different people, different agendas and whatnot, but this lack of cohesiveness, is what makes it fragmented and therefore all this backbiting and arguing and people trying to get one up on each other, although it makes it an interesting area

and it actually makes it an interesting film for cosmic whistleblowers. From the point of view of the subject and moving it forward, I think they just shoot themselves in the fault. And I don't mean that exclusively to everyone, but I think it can happen and it has happened and I think the film shows it.

I would have to agree. And, you know, Steve Bassett, even in your film, calls the UFO community a intellectual ghetto. And while I don't agree with him on many things, that is the perfect definition for what the UFO community is. I'm not here to scold the UFO community nor promote it. I am a researcher.

I'm proud of that. I love doing it. But the people I respect most, Simon, I'm sure you would agree, are those who send you information. They don't want their name out there. They are working underground on this stuff. and they just want the information out there. And I think that is what is most important.

And, you know, without giving anything away in your film in terms of this, you start the film saying that you are searching for answers to this topic that you have found, like most of us, extremely compelling. And you want answers. I have to ask, what did you walk away with after this three-year journey, this painstaking journey to find these answers? did you find any of those? What did you walk away with?

It's difficult to put it into a sentence or two, but I mean, look, from the beginning, I think I made it clear that I'm open-minded to the idea that there's a reality to all of this subject. In fact, I'm convinced that there is some reality to some parts of it, having spent 20-plus years researching it from the sidelines, as it were. Making this film was really probably the one

thing that made me question more of this subject than anything else. Read, done, seen, anything. I mean, it just puts, it just put so much into perspective. First of all, it made me really think twice about who I believed and made me less, I suppose less willing to just take someone at face value just because they sound authentic, they sound credible. they're in the right place at the right time. Whereas in the past I would have gone,

you know, that's a bunch of good reasons to give somebody the time of day. Now I would probably still, I'd have to ask for a bit more than that because you just can't always trust people. You just can't always take people at face value and people do have agendas. Now look, I'm not green to filmmaking.

I've been making television programs and whatnot for best part of 20 years. And I, you know, I've sat behind the camera many, many times with all kinds of different people from all walks of life. So you get an idea maybe of when somebody's being genuine when they're not. However, when you're faced with a bunch of situations that really make you question the validity of someone's research, perhaps, or people that they're presenting to you or whatever, then, of course, what you've then got to do as a documentary maker, or certainly,

an objective one, is equally then be questioning of the facts or the people that are being presented via whoever's presenting them, right? It just opens up a whole question mark. So unfortunately, what happens is, whereas initially you might have a situation where you're kind of trusting X, Y, and Z because of this particular person, if something goes on and it actually then makes you question, well, actually, is this person actually being straight up with me because of X, 1, Z? Then you've got to wonder about the story. and the people that are being brought to you in. And I really had that happen to me on this film.

It did make me question things a lot more. There was one point where my director of photography, actually, at one point when we were in Roswell, there was a whole bunch of stuff that I've not got into here that aren't even in the film that went wrong as well, people that didn't turn up, witnesses that didn't arrive, that names that were mentioned and then just got forgotten. I mean, there's a whole bunch of things that happened in Roswell

that just made my director of photography absolutely mad. with rage because he's a big, well, he's a really big, he's actually based in the US now, but he's a big, he's got a massive interest in the subject. He knows a ton about it. So he was really keen to meet all these people and whatnot. And he got so frustrated as I did at the time that it just made his question everything. One actually story, Ryan, I just really should come back to that I should have mentioned early on if we have time is, is the first witness that I went to see back in in in in Albuquerque and that was Elisar Benavides. Now he gets a very very small billing in the film because narratively I just had so much

to cram in it was tricky. But essentially he's the only man on the planet who claims that he saw dead alien bodies at Roswell at the air base in 1947. He's the only man alive who credibly apparently stands up to being a security guard at Roswell in 1947 on the air base and we can physically put in there. Now, before this whole journey began, Don Schmidt had promised me an interview with Eliezer Benavides 100% as a guaranteed thing. And what actually doesn't come over in the film maybe quite so clearly to some, but

when I landed in Albuquerque to interview him, not only did he not show up for the interview. And he was an old guy and apparently his wife was ill that day. And you know, that's completely understandable. If that's the case, that's fine. But what also happened on that day that Don actually stopped answering his phone calls to me and didn't really tell me what was happening for the rest of the next 24, 48 hours. And when you travel, you know, halfway around the world 4,000 miles to interview a guy, I at least expect to get some news on maybe what's going to happen with the interview and when it's going to be set up next. What I don't expect is to see that someone else gets to interview him

when I'm actually out of the country, and then this interview becomes part of a different film that gets played in Mexico City. That actually is something that really hacked me off, because, you know, there's one thing, I think, you know, nothing's guaranteed when you're a filmmaker, but he was going to be a very big part of the story. No one had really seen him speak on camera for a very long time,

and he was going to say the things he's going to say. And that interview had been set up for me, and then it just didn't happen. And when it comes back to credibility and believing what people have to say and making your question and why you do what you do, I think it just feeds back into that, Ryan. Because for me, the one person I really wanted to speak to was him,

and he was the one person that, guess what, didn't show up on the day. So, you know, it's, well, obviously it was hugely, hugely disappointing. But also from a personal point of view, it just gives you that extra doubt because, you know, I didn't get to sit there and look him in the eye and get him to tell me the story. So who knows? To me, he's just another guy telling another story because I wasn't in the room with him. Right. Well, and I can imagine, Simon, that that's extremely frustrating, like you said, waiting, traveling, you know, across the pond to get here and do that. It would make me want to scrap the entire project, but you didn't. You moved on, you found other witnesses, and ultimately made the film that I think is essential for not only the UFO community to see, but for the overall perception of what this UFO field consists of how we are at times our worst enemies, how these are just stories at this point. But cosmic whistleblowers is much more than what you first anticipated. And I think what your viewers anticipate when they hear what it's about, I can't recommend it enough.

Where can we find the film, Simon? Sure. Well, obviously the official website is cosmic whistleblowers.com. That's always going to be running. But on top of that, you can equally, maybe easier for many people, just stream the film directly through the Facebook page, which again is just cosmic whistleblowers. So that's always going to be open as well. and obviously much more interaction with people with comments and whatnot. So, yeah, you can stream the film there both ways.

It's also on part of Guy as Guy's TV's services now streaming through their channel. And yeah, they're also, I'm going to be making a Blu-ray extended edition that's going to be available on and around the anniversary, of course, which is coming up in July, 70 years this year. So that's going to be available too, hopefully with some extra bits and bobs that I couldn't squeeze in, you know, like an extra seven or eight hours, something like that. And yeah, so it's all good. all there. So yeah, everybody's more than welcome. And of course,

obviously, I'd love people to see the film and not just people who are interested in UFOs, because I think it is wider than that. As you rightly say, Ryan, I think I tried to make it a wider film that would appeal to just, to not just the UFO community. But I would say that, on top of that, that I'd love to hear people's comments. You know, I'd love to get people's opinions on what happened in the film, because like you say, I think there's, until people see it, there's much more to it. So, yeah, you know, stream the film, see it through Face. and please, you know, leave me your remarks. Love it or hate it.

I don't mind. Just give me your honest feedback. That's all I want. That's fantastic. As any filmmaker should. Are you working on anything now, Simon? Anything we should be looking for in the future? Well, yeah.

I'm currently actually just starting a new TV series, actually, which I'm producing and directing. But on top of that, which is a little more grounded, I've got to say, not to do with the cover-up stuff. But I am actually working on two projects, which are a bit of true. tricky to speak about. One is still definitely within the realm of the kind of whole cover-up genre

as it were. Again, slightly more grounded. It doesn't involve aliens, but it's a topic that I think hasn't had the attention that it deserves in the right way. So I'm putting a lot into that. I'm sorry I can't say more now, but it's kind of, it's at a crucial stage. But I'm

also doing, I'm actually also doing probably something on the abduction phenomenon as well, but again, that's just waiting on something to come through so we can get that moving but that's kind of all set up ready to go but you know i'm saying that now i could be saying that again in two years you know this is this is documentary filmmaking it's not tv so yes stuff in the pipeline and um hopefully towards the end of the year or very early next year i should have yeah something more to to discuss in more detail that's fantastic well it's clear you have a very keen

passion for this topic simon and and you know saying that you're not a part of the field we would welcome you with open arms. I think you are a shining example of what this field can be, and we need more filmmakers like you out there. So I can't thank you enough for coming on somewhere in the skies today and for this amazing film. Everyone go check out cosmic whistleblowers. Again, thank you so much, Simon.

Bless your heart, Ryan. It's been a real pleasure, and thanks ever so much for your time. All right, that is it for this week's episode. Again, I can't recommend this film enough to anyone out there. So give it a view at cosmic whistleblowers.com. Thanks again, Simon. I am so touched and honored that the show has a perfect five-star rating on iTunes. To those who've rated and reviewed, thank you.

For those who haven't, please take a moment and hop on iTunes or your favorite podcast app and rate and review the show where you can. It helps gain new listeners, and then we can start asking new questions. As always, guest and topic suggestions can be emailed to Sprague at Somewhere in the In all past episodes and other goodies are available at somewhere in the skies.com. Next week, I want you to harness your inner rage because we are going to be talking punk rock and UFOs with journalist Mike Demonte. It's going to be an intriguing and loud show.

Bring your earplugs. Thanks for tuning in, as always. And remember, keep your feet on the ground, but never stop searching somewhere in the skies. This has been a third kind production. To learn more, visit thirdkind productions.com.