Somewhere in the Skies - Skyman

Episode Date: July 20, 2020

On episode 170 of SOMEWHERE IN THE SKIES, Ryan is joined by Daniel Myrick. Myrick is best known for co-writing and directing the 1999 found-footage phenomenon, The Blair Witch Project. He's found his way back to the found-footage genre with his new film, Skyman. Skyman documents the story of Carl Merryweather who believes he experienced an alien encounter at ten-years-old and is now trying to reconnect with the UFO at the same location. In this discussion, Myrick shares his extensive research into the experiencer phenomenon, how he crafted his story, and his thoughts on UFOs and the subcultures surrounding the topic. Watch Skyman on Amazon Prime, YouTube and Google Play Disaster Relief for Beirut Explosion Victims. Donate now through Impact Lebanon by CLICKING HERE The updated and expanded edition of Somewhere in the Skies is now available! Order now in paperback or E-book. To purchase, and to leave a rating and review, CLICK HERE Website: www.somewhereintheskies.com Patreon: www.patreon.com/somewhereskies YouTube Channel: CLICK HERE Official Store: CLICK HERE Order Ryan's Book by CLICKING HERE Twitter: @SomewhereSkies Instagram: @SomewhereSkiesPod Watch Mysteries Decoded for free at www.CWseed.com Episode edited by Jane Palomera Moore Opening Theme Song, "Ephemeral Reign" by Per Kiilstofte SOMEWHERE IN THE SKIES is part of the eOne podcast network. To learn more, CLICK HERE Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/somewhere-in-the-skies. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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on our custom RSS feed right now. At the $1 to $3 level, you get all main episodes early and a shout out right here on the show and on the official Somewhere in the Sky's website. To learn more and to help support the show, visit patreon.com slash somewhere skies. Today on Somewhere in the guys, we're talking to Dan Meirik, writer and director of the famous 1999 found footage phenomenon, the Blair Witch Project. And now he's back with his most recent film, Skyman, a bold and compelling study of the fascinating and unquestioning world of UFO subculture and the profound and complex journey of the UFO experiencer. UFO in the high.

Some local residents claim to have seen an unidentified flying object just after sunset last evening, with one young man even claiming to have been visited by what he describes as a skyman. He didn't look human. I knew he wasn't a human. He has been so razor-sharp focused. I guess I just figured he was finally, like, ready to tell a story. Who's the H-G-H? I'm telling you, it was really really a little. loud, I was standing right here, and it was like, z-z-z-z.

It's our magnet for what's left of it. It was propelled somehow. Okay, so what? You really think that aliens did that? I don't know what to think, Gina. All I know is something's going on, and I don't think it's human-related. Arthur C. Clark once said, a sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. And I've always liked magic.

This is somewhere in the skies. and Brian Spread. Dan, thank you so much for joining me today and somewhere in the skies. Really happy to be here. Yeah, I mean, the real reason we're here today is to talk about your new film, Skyman. Before we even get to Skyman,

I was wondering if maybe briefly you could touch on how you came to create your first found footage film. I'm sure you're sick of getting this question, but the Blair Witch Project. Yeah, what are your thoughts on pioneering this kind of found footage genre and everything that followed after that.

Well, back in those days, you know, it was a place, I think, in, you know, my so-called filmmaking career, my friend Ed Sanchez and I had just graduated film school, and we were looking for a project to do together. And, you know, truth be told, Blair, which at the time was like the cheapest thing that we had to shoot, that we could probably pull off with the resources we had at our disposal.

And I think with the actual, advent of reality TV sort of just coming into its own in those days, 24-7 news and whatnot. I think audiences were starting to become sensitized to that style of storytelling and that kind of visual aesthetic. So we thought it would be cool to do something simple and cheap but direct, sort of primally motivated to scare people. And so Blair, which sort of became the logical choice for us based on an idea we came up with in film school. Interesting. And yeah, I mean, so much was spawned after that. And I, to this day, I can't tell you how much the film affected me. So, I mean, let's, I guess we'll fast forward then to your new film, Skyman, which isn't just found footage. So could you maybe tell us a little about how the structure and style of your new film kind of differs from the Blair Witch Project? Well, I knew there was going to be some direct comparisons to Blair.

I mean, I've done a bunch of different movies and projects over the years, and most of which were kind of straight-up narratives. And so with Skyman, I was sort of wanting to get back to my roots, if you will. Just something simple and contained and somewhat improvisational. And a lot of the lessons I learned on Blair, which I brought to bear on Skyman. But at the same time, I didn't want it to be kind of a direct. kind of repeat stylistically of what Blair which was, which is a straight up found footage film. You look at Blair Witch,

it's the footage shot by the filmmakers. So I literally had three versions of the script for Skyman. I had a straight up narrative version, which would be the $5 million Hollywood kind of, you know, a take on the story. And then I had a, in the other direction, I had a straight up found footage version, which would be all of,

Carl's tapes, if you will, which I thought was too reminiscent of Blair Witch. And then I have the hybrid version, which is what I ended up landing on, which gave me the, I think, the necessary freedom to shoot the film the way the story dictated. Because I think part of what makes Skyman interesting for me is this sort of journey that Carl is going on, this sort of, you know, search for answers, self-discovery, maybe a little redemption. But at the same time, we're kind of looking at Carl as much as we are with him. And I thought that there is a perspective from the filmmaker that we're witnessing this kind of chronicling of this man's events that I think is important.

So I sort of inserted myself sort of in this kind of Earl. Morris-esque way that I'm bringing Carl to to the world. I am, I am, you know, showcasing Carl's journey and his relationship with his family through the prism of my, of, of my camera. And that gives me a little bit more creative freedom in that regard to kind of reveal the, kind of the backdrop and the desert locations and the drone shots that Carl otherwise probably wouldn't have done had it been just straight up found footage. So I think it allowed me to put another layer of exposition and another layer of complexity

to the movie that Carl would not necessarily have done himself. A good example, I think, is some of the scenes at the UFO festivals where I, as a filmmaker, thought it was an interesting juxtaposition of Carl, who's very serious about his mission and very serious to find answers and talk to people, other experiences like himself, at these events, but it's completely out of place with all the kind of UFO kitchiness that you often find at these festivals. So he's sort of a man, a fish out of water when we see him in these scenarios. And that was an interesting and fun ability I had as a filmmaker watching Carl and sort of making my own commentary as a filmmaker

versus any other approach I could have taken. So it ultimately ended up being, I think it was necessary to write those other two versions of the script to kind of work my brain through those two paths. But ultimately landing on this kind of hybrid approach, I think was the best for the film. Absolutely, yeah, I think you said it best. It does give you the freedom as the filmmaker.

And, you know, a lot of people don't understand the creative process, of a scriptwriter, like how many iterations it goes through. Exactly, yeah. What actually makes it when you start shooting? I think you made the right choice, man, for sure. Thank you. Thank you. Would agree.

I guess sort of to backtrack a little, I'll get the technical questions out of the way here, Dan. What got you interested in making a movie about an alien encounter? You mentioned Carl. He is your protagonist in the film, who is a quote-unquote experiencer. So, yeah, where did the inception of this whole idea of close encounters, maybe abduction? We don't really know that with Carl. But, yeah, how did this all come to be? Well, you know, strangely enough, this is sort of an idea I had even before Blair Witch.

I grew up in the late 70s, early 80s, where, you know, ufology, abductions, Bigfoot, Bermuda Triangle, all that stuff was sort of in the zeitgeist in those days. And so it was sort of a product of the times. And, you know, when I was a preteen in my kind of suburban neighborhood in Florida, me and my friends had this kind of UFO club that we would go out and sort of investigate local, you know, phenomena, if you will. And I think it was always a part of my kind of childhood to fantasize about, you know, aliens and what it would be like. And, of course, close encounters of the third kind came out around that time, which really kind of ramped up my imagination in that whole world.

So I guess I always wanted to sort of like explore that more from the experiencers perspective rather than it being sort of this procedural or investigative reports that we've seen so many times. Or is it true? Is it not true? Blah, blah, blah. Really what I wanted to come at is from the angle of how it affects the people, how it affects their family. And whether you believe in UFOs or not, you know that Carl believes it. And that sort of drive and the determination and his life experience, having claimed to have been visited, is incredibly important to him. And it's had a huge impact on his life.

And I think that's compelling. And a lot of these experiences are in the same boat as Carl. And so I just found that an interesting character study that I wanted to explore. And it started to kind of materialize more over the last few years. After my last film, I did for A&E, which was sort of a straight-up thriller. I revisited this idea and literally took my little RV out to the desert in Southern California and camped out at Joshua Tree for several weeks and wrote the script outline for it, because I knew I wanted to kind of do it in the desert.

So, yeah, that materialized shortly afterwards, and my producer Joe Restano came on board, and we were able to kind of get it going. And it's really one of the best experiences I've had making films. It was just a lot of fun to do. That's awesome. It's always good to hear, you know, when something is, is that rewarding. And I mean, you mentioned the landscapes. It was gorgeous seeing these Joshua

tree places. And, you know, being a New York City guy, whenever I can get out there, it's just, it's a magical, magnetic place. And it's, uh, no, it's no surprise that this is where Carl would go. It really is. I mean, there's, you can understand how the desert, um, has a lot of spiritual significance for people, because when you're out there, especially at night, you're, you're just blanketed by the by the stars um they're so vivid you know with such clear dry skies uh it's hard not to feel a connection to the universe and hard not to feel uh sort of insignificant you know as compared to the vastness of the sky above so it's no mystery to me why we see and hear about a lot of uh UFO experiences in these desert landscapes and um and visually you know it was kind of

allegory, I think, to Carl's experience. I mean, if you look at some of those kind of drone shots, you've got this guy who's sort of an alien in his own landscape, right? I mean, it looks like he's on a moon base on Mars

or I should say a Mars base on Mars, but he's sort of an alien in his own world. And I think that visual of the desert helps to reinforce that. Yeah, moving to the score Dan, composed by Don Miggs and Smashing Pumpkins,

Billy Corgan. How did this happen? What was it like working with these guys on your film? Well, the score was very important to me. It's one of those things that I, again, much like the characters in the casting, I wanted to resist something that was sort of heavy-handed

and overly mysterious and spooky and yada, yada. I mean, it's sort of the easy approach. I wanted something a bit more character, driven, you know, with the elements of the, of that mystery, but also more importantly, having a sense of character and longing and, and this kind of, you know, almost this tinge of sadness with this, with the story with Carl and his search for kind of meaning. And I met Don Miggs through my producer, and a good friend of ours, Christian Crepple, who's producing another

project, which will want to introduce me to. Don. And Don knew Billy had worked with Billy in the past. Don's a musician himself, has his own band, and he has a recording studio. And he really responded to the material. And we just sort of hit it off. We sort of talking about this is more than just a UFO movie. It's really about this guy and his quest.

And I wanted the kinds of songs and composition and cues that were as, you know, varied and is identifiable from a character standpoint as as any kind of score you do for any movie. And I think he embraced that. He recruited the help of Billy Corrigan to get involved because apparently he's a pretty big UFO fan as well. So they got together also with the help of our other composer, Greg Hansen, who's helped him down on a lot of this music. So we just had a really awesome team that completely understood the character underpinnings of the movie and wrote the music that identified Carl identified his quest and his plight. And it was a real joy to have that collaboration with them.

And it was, I think the score sort of stands on its own two feet as a result. Absolutely. I can't wait. I hope we'll be able to get that someday. Well, you can actually. It's available on Amazon music now. So the soundtrack is up there now. Oh, perfect. That's awesome. I know what I'm doing after this. Cool. Well, you mentioned character, Dan. I'd love to talk a little about Carl. I mean, Michael was excellent in this film. You know, so immediately I start going and looking up everything else he's done. And, you know, his resume isn't that big. But, man, man, he packed a punch in this, and he's kind of the epitome of an experiencer in my eyes, having interviewed hundreds of these people throughout the years.

You know, I was a little hesitant when I saw that this film focused directly on an experiencer and how it would be handled, but man, you knocked it out of the park and you gave him so much depth. So I was wondering, what made you decide to cast this guy, Mike, as the main character, and how did you two work together as, like, a director and, an actor to craft this character? Well, I knew in the early days, I mean, you're always kind of faced with this decision whenever you make a movie. Like, do we cast someone that's sort of a known quantity, you know, to help with financing or distribution or whatnot? Or do you go with an unknown, which certainly is easier on the budget, but, you know, doesn't have the PR power that a name would have.

But I just knew on this particular film, the kind of documentary approach I was taken to it. My instincts were telling me to go with an unknown, so this individual wouldn't come to the screen with any pre-existing baggage for the audience. So we held a bunch of open calls in L.A. I think I had four or five open calls. And oftentimes when I cast, I really enjoy holding open calls because you really find some amazing talent. Even if it's not for that particular movie you're casting for, maybe, you know, you put a pin in somebody that you'll use down the road. But in this case, I knew what I didn't want, not necessarily exactly what I wanted. I knew the character is written, had a little bit of Asperger's. He was on the spectrum, you know, super smart in certain areas.

He was inspired by, you know, a story a friend of mine told me about a truck driver that could, that you, at face value was like a total redneck, but he could do the New York Crossford puzzle in like 15 minutes. And you're like, wow, you know. So that was sort of kind of was my inspiration for the Carl character, along with a lot of other. interviewees that I've I've read about testimonials over the years. So that was sort of what I was fishing for. But what I knew I didn't want was like the straight up wacko, you know, some crazy stereotype that often gets portrayed in these sorts of stories. So, you know, Michael came in and he had this sort of subtle demeanor about him and this sort of childlike quality that I really liked. He was a musician by trade, very creative guy.

And I had a couple of scenes already written for the movie. And one in particular, if you remember at the end of the film, where Mike's sort of giving his last goodbye to his family, he's talking directly into the camera. So I had Mike come in on a callback because I liked his first read. I just had him read that scene right to camera as it would be shot in the film. And he just nailed it. I just said, that's my guy.

And there was so many complexities about his delivery, completely understated, but yet very identifiable. And it's a really tough, tough, subtle balance to play. So once I had Mike, then it was about, you know, finding a Gina that would compliment him well. And Nicolette did a wonderful job for us. And so as we sort of locked down our core leads, then it was a matter for me to sort of like, okay, how do we make them comfortable and

understand my process? You know, because I don't, I don't shoot movies in a normal way. And I got with Michael. I said, look, man, I know you probably used to having a call time. And he said, no, no, do whatever you need to do. So I called him on several occasions and we just drove out to the desert way or early on in the process and started just shooting scenes and shooting video and and allowing him to get into the character of Carl and figure it out and make it his own while we were out in the

desert and I was just rolling camera to see how it looked and make tweaks and allow that allow that character sort of grow inside him and as well develop a relationship you know as a filmmaker because I'm a character in the movie as well. I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm sort of the off-camera questionnaire, right, that's having and supposedly been following this guy around for a month. So I wanted to kind of meth it out on that process. And so early on, I got together with Michael on several occasions where we shot scenes together, workshop that also Nicolette came out. We did a few scenes with her so they could get to know each other. We could all get really comfortable where I just was sort of like this fly on the wall.

And then we even went to a couple of the UFO festivals, one in Oregon. A couple times we went to the one in Oregon, of course, in Roswell. And it was just Mike and myself in a camera. And we were in character the entire two or three days. We were there shooting scenes, a lot of which ended up in the movie asking questions and being in character. And it just was a real luxury as a filmmaker, an artist, to be able to work with an actor like but completely embrace that process and was able to do so. We had no burden of a studio telling us that we had to do this or make adjustments or whatever.

We were able to let it organically grow as we were shooting. So by the time we shot principal photography later that year in October, we were already dialed in. And it was great. That was just a real, rewarding, you know, lovely process that I wish every movie could, I could do on every film. You're great at protecting your data, but lots of places could still expose you to identity theft. I thought it was safe. If that happens, LifeLock gives you a U.S.-based restoration agent who will stick by your side from start to finish. Phone calls, filing documentation, preparing insurance claims, your agent handles it all.

In fact, we're so confident, restoration is guaranteed. Pour your money back. Isn't it nice to have someone like that on your side? Save up to 40% your first year at lifelock.com slash Spotify. Terms apply. Yeah, and I mean, that's the challenge with these sort of found footage movies. I mean, I remember meeting so many actors who would tell me, oh, yeah, like I had to take actual classes on just how to act in a found footage film,

you know, as opposed to, like you said, a big budget narrative. and whatnot. So, I mean, yeah, like you said, that dance between actor and director is always really fascinating to me. And I did want to touch on the festival thing. That was really, really cool. It was a part that really struck out to me because, you know, as a UFO researcher, I speak at these things. Right. I was at the Roswell Festival the year prior to your filming of this, but I know that atmosphere, man, when you get that. Yeah. It's, yeah, it's interesting. What do you think personally about all that?

Well, it's an interesting, you know, dichotomy. There's a sort of paradox with these festivals because on one hand, there's a lot of merchandising going on, a lot of commercialization going on, a lot of people selling T-shirts, and there's alien costume contests. And so there's a real festive atmosphere, which make them a lot of fun. a good place to, a good time to take the family and watch a parade and have a few beers and whatnot. And then there's this other component to these things, which are very serious. You've got, you've got, you know, Travis Walton giving a panel at the auditorium two blocks away and you're,

you know, a full UFO panel where a lot of people are going to, you know, are sold out and they're going to listen to people speak and, you know, so there's just interesting sort of, two worlds coexisting at a lot of these festivals that I found interesting and I wanted to sort of bring into full relief through Carl's character where here's this serious guy. Ironically interviewed by two, you know, self-proclaimed weirdo UFO types, right? Yeah. Where Carl is the understated one and they call him the weirdo, right? Yeah. So it's, but I felt I felt that sort of, um,

identification with Carl's character where, you know, you're a person who's not quite fitting into the world around you. You've got sort of this overarching mission to find an answer and no one's really taking you seriously about it. And that's sort of, he's that outcast, right, that a lot of us have felt and certainly a lot of experiences have felt. So I wanted to kind of bring that into full relief both visually and I think through Carl's dialogue and character at these festival environments that, and he even says himself, he's like, this is the first festival, one of these I've ever been to. And you're like, which I'm not surprised. And he's not, he's obviously an introvert, you know, probably very, you know, has a phobia about being

in these big social situations. But, you know, the compulsion to go out and find answers forces him to kind of go out and stake out on his own to these, these, you know, events to try to try to find some sort of commonality and maybe some, you know, reaffirmation, if you will, through other people that have had the same experiencers. And that's, that's, and I just thought an interesting component to all this, because there is a lot of commercialization, my personal experience, there's a lot of kitchiness and, you know, goofiness involved with, with, with this whole, entire subculture, obviously making a lot of money. There's a lot of crackpots out there.

And even Carl himself, when he's showing you his sort of research library, he says, you know, 90% of this stuff is bunk. But through all the chaff, there are these unexplained incidents. And through all the chaff, there are, there are, there are noteworthy events. And that's, I think, the important thing to clarify, I think, with Carl and his experience. Absolutely. I mean, we, you know, in this field, always say, like, if even one of these cases, whether it's just, you know, an object in the sky up to a claimed alien abduction, let's say, if even one of them is real and genuine and true, like, that's enough.

And I think you're right. I think that's what Carl is going for. All you need is one. Exactly. Yeah. You know, for Carl, it might not just be this one because we learn in the film that his father also had an experience. I'd love to touch on this a little with you, Dan, if that's cool. Sure.

Yeah, why'd you decide to add this layer to the story? And do you believe that these experiences kind of do run generational or within families? I definitely imply that with Carl. I mean, what I was attempting to go for with Carl's characters. You know, I like when there's a level of ambiguity with characters, because, you know, we're all complicated animals. You can't really overly generalize too much. Or you run the risk of missing out on a lot of the juicy details of the human condition.

And I think with Carl, it's easy to sort of like stereotype him as a kind of a working class, redneck living in Barstow. But once you sort of peel back some of the layers, you realize, oh, there's some interesting quirks about this guy. There's some interesting layers to this guy that you don't see at first blush. And his father is one of those layers. There is a connection to his father that's obviously very sincere and very personal to him.

Arguably, his father was like the one person in his life that took him seriously as far as the UFO experience was concerned, being that he had one himself, according to Carl. And that understanding has been lost for him. His father's dead now. So he doesn't have that, he doesn't have that shoulder to lean on as he probably did growing up. And his mother obviously has had an issue with him regarding that experience. And his sister, as loving as she is, and as tolerant of him as she is, is a bit dismissive of his experience as well. So I wanted to have this connection to his past, connection to his father that was sort of this sad tragedy that the one person in his life that kind of believed in him is no longer around.

And also a driving, a motivator for him to sort of want to prove dad was right, you know, in his own world, in his own exploration, his own search for answers at the end of the movie, to have some level of redemption in his father's eyes and his mother. in his family's eyes, but also to kind of, you know, show his father, wherever he may be, that he was ultimately, they weren't crazy, right? And so I think that just gave his, Carl's character a lot more kind of meaning and sentimental value than just being a guy, you know, looking to reconnect with an alien. There's, there's more layers to it than that. And oftentimes there are. Right. Yeah. And I think, you. You stressed it earlier too.

Like it's a human story. You know, it's about this sensational thing or this otherworldly thing. But at the end of the day, it's about the person having the experience. Yeah. It often is when you have these discussions and you do these interviews and you talk to these people, you can't help but also take it into account their world. their experience and how it how their life is influencing what they've seen or not seen or or what have you and there's there's a there's a lot of that inherent biases involved with

these sorts of experiences um and i just find that fascinating again it's it's whether you believe in what they saw or not is true you have to believe that they believe it and there's a there's a compelling observation in that that I find very interesting which I've always drawn to why people believe things as much as what they're believing.

Yeah, I actually, you know, I can relate to that being in this UFO field every waking moment of my life. I agree with you. It is more of a cultural study or human case study than actually figuring out

what the hell of these UFOs and, you know, paranormal phenomenon. actually are. Owls are somehow connected to UFOs. I don't say that lightly. After over a decade of obsessive investigation,

I am convinced of this connection. As strange as it may seem, people are seeing owls in the highly charged moments of a UFO sighting, and within the challenging memories of UFO abduction. This mystery has been the focus of my research. My name is Mike Cleland, and I have explored these connections in my book The Messengers. At its core, this book is simply a collection of stories,

and each is a remarkable real-life experience. The Messengers is also my own story of how Owls played a role in my life. The Messengers is the first in a trilogy of books. All my books are available on Amazon, in paperback, e-book, and very soon as audiobooks. Well, one sort of last aspect in the film, Dan, I'd love to touch on with you, is this idea of owls. No, I won't give away too much in the film, but you do reference a very good friend of mine and colleague about how owls play into all of this.

And I remember right when I saw that part in your film, I sent a link to the movie to this person and had him watch it. And he flipped. flipped the F out, man. I'm not going to lie. He was like, you got to be kidding me. So yeah, we mentioned him by name. Yep, I know. He was extremely touched by that.

So yeah, I'd love to get your thoughts on that. What role? If you can get him to give us a quote, that would be even better. Oh, absolutely. I guarantee you he's going to listen to this interview too. So we will make that happen. But yeah, I guess we will name and not shame him here. That's Mike Cleland, the owl guy.

what we call him in the UFO field. Did you know about his work prior? Or what kind of... Well, I was doing a lot of... I was doing a lot of research prior to the movie, you know, years ago. And, you know, again, I sort of been, you know, loosely involved with a lot of this stuff for many years. But ran across his book as a recommended reading and read it and just loved it. It was just an amazing book.

And, you know, part of my approach to most... Any movie I do, whether I succeed... at it or not as anyone's argument, but, you know, I, I don't like to phone things in. I, I, I like to have the details worked out. I mean, I guess I equate it to, like, if you're going to do a scene in an ER, the greatest compliment is that a doctor comes up to use as you did it right, right? So I wanted this movie to have the details worked out that ufologists that are in the know, not necessarily the average moviegoer, but ufologists would go, you did your homework. That's totally meaningful.

These little nooks and crannies, these little details you have in here are, you obviously have, you know, done your research. It's just not an alien footprint in the sand, right? So the Owls, the Messengers was a fascinating book, a fascinating read for me. And I wanted, and admittedly, a great visual for the film. But it was sort of a turning point in the movie because this is where I think in the film where Carl sort of goes all in. you know when not one but two owls show up at the site it's kind of hard to argue that there's not some kind of screen memory going on and it just reinforces what he already is kind of presupposed to believe and so when they when they make their appearance in the film that moment if anyone has done any research in this topic

Owls play a significant part in a lot of these experiences recollections you're like wow that is unusual for two owls just to kind of be hanging out at your campsite at the one weekend you decide

to be looking for for aliens that's one more little coincidence you put on the pile of coincidences that's become harder and harder to explain away and so yeah it's a turning point for Carl in the movie

visually amazing, I think, as well. And our animal wrangler, Chris Rankin, is a friend of mine who she's worked on, you know, films of mine in the past. She was able to get her friend out there with a couple of owls from L.A. and just did a wonderful job for us there. But that was one of my favorite moments in the film. We weren't sure if it was going to work or not because of owls, you're having to kind of, you know, wrangle trained owls. But they look, they just look amazing on, on camera.

And the reaction is really great from both Carl and Olo, who plays his best friend Marcus. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, again, yeah, those owls deserve an award, man. They freaked me out. They are so cool. It added such a deep richness to the film for, like what you said, the more, I guess, UFO veterans out there. you make other references to valet and, you know, people like this, these names that we all know. But, you know, I can't blame the mainstream public for not caring who these people are and also just never having heard of them.

Yeah, maybe not have heard of it, but may be inspired to check it out. What do owls have involved with us? And Giant Rock is a real place. And the Integraton is a real place. It has a history of your apology. And, you know, even at the gas pump where he lands on 1-1-1-1-1, right that's numerology all there's a lot of overlapping um you know symbology in the film that that uh you know those that pick up on it will will appreciate and and i even have a call out to

close encounters of the third kind i don't know if you noticed it or not but it's a little bit of an easter egg yeah yeah that um when carl is going through his newspaper and showing and reading his article to us on camera in his laundry room. The author, if you'll notice, is Roy Neary, who is the character in Close Encounters, was the Richard Dryfest character in Close Encounters. So that's my little call out to Close Encounters. So those little things, I think, are interesting and fun, but also in the spirit of having done a lot of research in this field, wanting to bring us a kind of a level of authenticity with a lot of the background. And, and, and, even some of the people we interviewed and that play characters into film.

I like to move a little to more current news, Dan, and get your thoughts on this. We seem to be living in kind of a much more accepting world, I guess, would be a good word. When it comes to UFOs, this whole New York Times article that came out a few years ago, Washington Post, political, all that stuff. We even are now having a new bill being drafted concerning. This is crazy. This is like a world that us UFO people never thought we would see, but it seems to be gradually changing. So yeah, did any of this play into your work at all throughout the process? Or what do you make of all this stuff happening right now? Well, it was really sort of a happy coincidence. I mean, when we first started sort of kind of, you know, ramping up our Indiegogo campaign for the early days of Skyman, you know, this is, I think. I want to say, 2016. You know, I can't remember if that's when the Tick-Tag videos came out with the Air Force or not.

But certainly, you know, the declassified Project Blue Book, you know, happened within the last, you know, a couple of years. The Air Force videos certainly are pretty incredible when you look at them. So a lot of, you know, and of course the area 51 sort of gathering, if you will. Yeah, yeah. Gathering is a good word, yep. Yeah, yeah. So all this, and I think social media in general has amplified a lot of these topics and subjects where the Phoenix Lights is probably one of the more recent accounts that sort of like, you know, kind of blew everybody away. And so there's there's a lot of things that have happened that sort of form this nexus of this resurgence in awareness. And I think we just have to be in the middle of it. We're just sort of by happenstance.

I've always wanted to do, you know, movies in this space. I mean, I did a movie called The Objective years ago about, you know, arguably an alien encounter in the war torn hills of after. So I've been sort of playing around in the space for a while, but the fact that the general public and sort of the mainstream and our political leaders are all sort of embracing it now as well, it's just sort of kind of lucky for us. But it's interesting to see, to see it bake a resurgence in recent years and, you know, how many people are taking it seriously. Absolutely. And, you know, I think as the, as time goes on and it becomes more publicly acceptable, let's say, yeah, it'll be a whole new shift in how we view our world and everything in between. I mean, this whole UFO topic, you can connect it to anything, religion, economics, you know, politics, obviously. Yeah, you're right. I think astronomy too. I mean, we over the last, I would say, five to ten years, you know, our knowledge of Earth-like planets in our own backyard has expanded tremendously. I remember thinking about Earth-like planets in sort of the Goldilocks zone, if you will, being sort of theoretical. And now we literally have to be. have thousands of them on record that, oh, here's just in our observational window around, you know, a few light years from Earth, we've managed to identify a whole ton of potential candidates

that could support life, right? And you extrapolate that number to the vastness of the universe. You just have to play the odds. It's just almost, you know, an assured. bet that there is intelligent life out there. If not at this very second that we're on, at some point in history. So to me, scientifically speaking, it's hard not to think that there isn't something else out there wondering just like we are, or maybe not. But, you know, whether they're showing up in our backyards and flying saucers or not, it's open to debate. but certainly some version of intelligent life out there seems to me a pretty sure bet and that's I think what sparks my imagination and a lot of people's imagination and these sort of

increased discoveries of earth-like planets capable potentially sustaining life I think has just helped to elevate that that in people's minds yeah I think you're I think once those two can converge maybe we'll find some answers if they've ever actually visited, but yeah, you're right. I mean, it just, these things take time. And I do feel personally that we're on the phenomenon's timetable when it comes to all this, when they quote unquote, they want to be discovered. But I like to get your thoughts, too, on this stand.

Like disclosure, this big word that a lot of UFO people use of our government saying, you know, admitting, yeah, you know, we've known about this. We've been keeping it secret. blah, blah, blah. Do you think, at least here in the United States, that our government knows what's going on in our skies when it comes to these UFOs and claimed abductions and close encounters? Like, a lot of people think in the conspiracy world, there's this dark syndicate government, you know, hiding all these secrets and answers. But what are your personal thoughts on that whole sweeping part of all this? I mean, I've never really been the deep state, dark government conspiracy guy myself. I mean, the government's like the worst keeping secrets.

And, I mean, getting, you know, the whole, I guess, you know, it's so getting into flat earth or the landing on the moon of hoax folks, which is like it's just all those scientists and all those, you know, press people over many decades and people to keep, to have everyone keep, to keep such a huge secret, it's just, to me, sort of unrealistic. Now, are there events that are sort of documented as unknown and unexplained, you know, in the archives of, you know, the Air Force? Absolutely. I would not be surprised, and I'm not surprised when I see revelations of, oh, here's some sightings that we've had that we can't

explain. Now, is that some grand conspiracy to hide it from the public? I don't think so. I think it's more, And look, we have to take responsibility as a public, too. Like the minute some authority figure in the military says, look, here's a UFO we think might be flying around Kansas. Everyone freaks out, right? So they have to take that into consideration, the response from the public, if there is any implication whatsoever of the unexplained. But I feel that any intelligent life form out, any intelligent being. out there are probably care as little about who knows

of them or not. I don't think they're exclusively talking to the government. I don't, or the American government in particular, I don't any more than us as a species would, would, you know, limit our conversations

to one particular species of animal if we were to run across a new planet full of animals. You know, I just think, I think that's a bit limiting, quite frankly. I think if an alien intelligence wants to be known, we will know, without a doubt. We will, it will be, now, is there a possibility that there are aliens out there that have traversed space in time and are cracking the door open every now and then to check in on us?

That's so, you know, who's to say? But I just find it hard to believe that an alien is captured and is somehow unable to communicate beyond the confines of a police interrogation room, right? So that's just my take on it. Conspiracy theories take on a life of their own. And unfortunately, a lot of them can really muddy the water and delegitimize a lot of like really interesting experiences that are out there. So you have to be careful. what you spread and whom you believe that everything should, you know, should be judged by the burden of the evidence, right? I mean, ironically, some of the oldest things, like when I look at the kind of the Trent, the famous Trent photos, which, you know, gave rise to the Oregon UFO

Fest, those two Trent Farm photos of like the most, arguably most famous saucer photos in history, as a photographer myself, I look at those. photos and I go, this is either one of the best hoaxes ever. When you look at those photos and you look at the negatives, the lighting on the object over the field, over that

farm field, it's like it's an incredible incredible hoax. One of the best ever. Or something's flying in the sky over the Trent Farm. I mean, those are the two, you know, and you, you know, when I was at the UFO Fest with Michael, we went

to the, they had the documentary on the husband and wife that supposedly, you know, took those pictures. And there were the most unassuming po-dump people you would ever want to meet, right? And that these are not the kinds of people that were, decide to put some elaborate hoax together for publicity purposes or just sell a book. I just doesn't, it doesn't add up, right? So yes, there are people that said, oh, yeah, he pulled a hoax or not. So, but again, it's those incidences that you're like, Hmm, that makes you wonder, right? And it's usually the simplest, you know, the, the, the, the, um, least elaborate of the experiences that I find the most believable and compelling, not, not these kind of deep, grand conspiracies that I, that I feel are better at, at getting people riled up and whatnot. But that's just my personal opinion. Yeah, no, I think it's a very insightful opinion because, I mean, I've heard you in interviews talk about Betty and Barney Hill as well, and this is another scenario.

There's just so normal people, you know, everyday people claiming these things and they don't want the publicity. They didn't want anyone to know about it except possibly the Air Force, you know, to figure out what the hell it was. So, yeah, I think you're right. The more people in walks of life, I've spoken to so many different people, law enforcement, teachers, clergy, whatever. They're all claiming these things. So these aren't cooks and cranks and, you know, the crazy people as we've sort of talked about what Carl could become in his obsession. But, yeah, it's fascinating. I think you're right.

The simpler these people are and less leg. conspiracy theory that better. Yeah, I mean, it's like the Air Force video recently. You have like the so-called Tick-Tac, you know, UFO. And you hear the guys off camera, you know, witnessing this thing, rotating in the sky, you know, off the, you know, off the starboard side of their jet. And one of the, I think it was a flight captain or whatever was doing the panel at

at McMinnemus Festival as well. And he says, yeah, we were, we were, watching this thing. And it was defying the law of physics and say, okay, these are trained pilots. The last thing that they probably want to do is be perceived as crazy UFO cooks in their career, right, in their profession. Not a good look for them, but there it is on the screen, on the, on the Fleer radar and then off camera, you know, play by play describing this thing. So that's, you know, is it some terrestrial based probe? from Russia could be, I guess.

The technology is constantly surprising me. But it's those events that aren't easily defined but are also the simplest ones that I find the most compelling. Well, kind of, I could keep you here for hours, Stan, but we won't do that to you.

Some wrap-up questions for you here. Moving back to filming, you know, we mentioned Joshua Tree and some of these really cool places you shot in. So working with your cats, crew, which I assume is rather minimal when you're making a film like this. Did anyone have any personal stories to share with you about UFOs, aliens, paranormal? I mean, nothing overt that anyone came up to.

Or if they did, I was so wrapped up in filming. Yeah. One ear or not the other. I mean, a lot of what was so cool about what we were doing, especially during principle, was we were all sort of practical living out in the desert for three weeks. and I would kind of give these light shows because I brought my RV out there I just camped out there on set

and I brought this green laser with me I'd like to point stars out in constellations and stuff like that and you know we'd all after we'd wrap excuse me after we'd wrap for the day we'd sit down and have a few beers and you know we would like look at strange things flying in the sky and you know

oh that's a satellite but that we're not sure and point out constellations and there were some great great times we had there and you know there a few people talk about their belief in UFO and intelligent life, but nothing specific that my actors or crew had mentioned to me. Certainly, you know, some of the people that we had interviewed through our travels,

like at some of the festivals and some of the vendors that Michael interviewed gave us some really compelling stories. But, yeah, outside of some of our nightly, you know, light shows that we got, I mean, the trouble is nowadays with a lot of the technology and, you know, more and more satellites in the sky, it's getting harder and harder to discern what's man-made and what's not up in the sky. I mean, every, it seems like every five minutes there's another satellite flying by. And, you know, I had a strange occasion when, you know, a few years ago when I was out camping and I saw what I thought was a satellite. And it was flying overhead. I knew it wasn't a plane, it was just a solid white dock cruising over my head.

Then it slowed down for a minute and then it sped up again. That was real quick. And just sort of doing the math on my head didn't seem like that would be the behavior of a satellite or an airplane. So, you know, but now, who knows? There's so much junk flying up there with drones and. Yeah, our number one enemy. Yeah. Yeah, it's hard to, it's hard to, you know, you have to be even more scrutinizing than ever before.

Absolutely. And I mean, nowadays, anyone can, there's apps on your phone where you can put a UFO in your photo or video. So, I mean, you're right. We once depended on videos and photographs as our evidence. And now they're like we said, our worst enemy when it comes to this. Because it could just be a special effects artist. It's kind of their calling card. You know, like look at what I did.

I got a million views hire me. Exactly. I mean, go to YouTube and see, you know, any of these UFO videos that's CJA work is pretty incredible. Some of them look really, really realistic. But occasionally, you know, you'll get something from a local news affiliate and they'll report something strange in the sky and they've got video of it and you know it's authentic and like, oh, that's interesting. That's weird. Or you'll get, you know, a video like this from, you know, the military that you know is not a fake. There's no point in having it be inauthentic from their perspective. So occasionally we still get video of stuff that you can take at face value.

but you're right i mean most anything anybody that i say that i see sending me a youtube video of this amazing UFO i'm i i immediately like uh my my my my bs meter starts to go up real fast yeah same i'm i always and then you know you watch it and then you're like oh okay well this youtube person only has one video up yeah yeah there's dramatic music behind the ufo Exactly, yeah. They took some time to make this thing. The bad, the bad font graphics flying in and stuff. Yeah, yeah, that giveaway.

You have definitely done your research, Dan, for sure. Well, I mean, let's kind of end there in terms of your research. In researching these topics, you know, ever since you were a kid and now making a film about close encounters and whatnot, what was the most rewarding thing you personally took away from the entire process of Sky. I think for me you know as an artist you always want to make something because you're putting so much

energy and heart and soul into a project at least for me it's it's a multi-year process for me I'm you know I typically will write and direct even shoot and edit all my own stuff so it's a it's an all in endeavor and

to have people respond well to the end result is always incredibly rewarding. I mean, that's why you do it. And you're trying to communicate and move people emotionally with this one supposed skill set you have. And we got great reviews from the New York Times and Indy Wire and Austin Chronicle and a whole bunch of other big names out there. And that's incredibly rewarding. But even more than that, just people like yourself, especially like that are that are kind of well versed into the UFO kind of culture and subculture to say they really like the movie is is a big reward so as an artist that's a big part of it and also it's just a person you know making a film sort of the way you want to make it with a bunch of people

that you really like working with is also hugely rewarding it's you wish you could do it on every movie that would allow you to do that because it really is a big playground. You're all in this sandbox, literally, getting to make a movie out in the middle of the desert and just having a blast doing it. And it shows that that camaraderie, the collaboration, they're all trying to make something meaningful. And it's just a great communal collaborative experience that I wish everyone could could experience. And that's also very, very lucky to be able to do Skyman. And I have to really thank my producer, Joe Rustano on it will help bring it all together as well as the actors, you know,

um, they just really delivered. They just delivered 110 percent. Well, you know, moving away from Skyman and wrapping up here, Dan, I've read that you're actually working on some other really cool stuff with eye horror. So I was wondering, could you tell us a little about what you're doing with them and yeah, what comes next for you as a filmmaker? Well, we started this project called Blackvale. It's, uh, you can check it out.

Flagvaleonline.com. And it is a short form horror anthology series that we're shooting in Florida, where we're shooting before the pandemic hit. But I've been wanting to do sort of a horror anthology series for quite a while, but I've been sort of searching for something thematically to tie it all together rather than just a bunch of horror shorts that really aren't connected. So I thought that it was cool having grown up in Florida and my wife grew up in Mississippi and being sort of a product of the South. I always thought Southern Gothic culture was very spooky and mysterious and felt that it would be cool to base a sort of online series around that Southern Gothic aesthetic.

And so created this six-episode series, recruited the help of my friend Jeffrey Reddick, who, was a writer, created the Final Destination franchise, and, you know, I'd like to have him write and direct one of the episodes. We also teamed up with Daniel McBride, who did Underworld. So he's writing and directing one of the episodes. We've got a great team of really creative people in this kind of horror thriller space that I had hoped to do a, you know, season one short films that would be really high-quality, quality for the internet. So we shot the first episode, which I directed and a friend of mine,

Chris Peck and Paul wrote. And so the pilot episode has been shot, and I'm editing it as we speak. So that's in the can. Three other episodes that we have pretty much ready to go once we get the green light to continue shooting in Florida. So we're, but right now it's anybody's guess. We'll see how it all pans out. But that's something we are very excited about. think it's going to be very cool. And once we are able to roll cameras again, we'll get back into it. Awesome. Yeah, I understand, man. The world's kind of been put on hold right now. But it's, hopefully there's a glimmer of hope that all the film industry can get back out there and make stuff like you are. Because, I mean, the human element you gave to this movie, I think, speaks volumes.

and it's something that has lacked in a lot of these ways that experiences are portrayed. And, you know, my personal beliefs aside, I feel for these people. Some of them are very traumatized. Some reject it in their lives. Some embrace it. But at the end of the day, like, it comes down to their personal journey. And I think you just, you did a good job putting the microscope on that for people. So, yeah, with that being said, where and how can we see Scott?

man. Well, it's still playing in some drive-ins, I think, throughout the southeast. Studio movie grill, you catch it on the big screen in Florida right now. But it is available on VOD, Amazon, and vood, and all the kind of the usual suspects, but primarily Amazon, I think Vimeo as well. So it's available right now. As of the 7th, it's been in wide domestic release. I think it goes into foreign territories here soon. But yeah, you can stream it right now. Awesome. And, you know, without giving anything away, the last few minutes of the film, Dan, you hit it out of the park just like with Blair Witch.

So congrats on the film, Dan. And I can't thank you enough for coming on Somewhere in the Skies. Oh, really appreciate it. Really enjoyed it. Great interview. That's it for this week's episode. Again, you can watch Skyman right now on all major streaming services. If you haven't checked out the Summer in the skies website yet, we just had a complete overhaul and design done by the brilliant Mike Resil. It's beyond anything I could have ever imagined.

So head on over and let me know what you think, somewhere in the skies.com. There you can also find all past episodes, articles, news, and a direct contact link to me. Again, that's somewhere in the skies.com. We are steadily climbing the steep mountain. of being a featured podcast on Apple Podcasts, the largest podcasting platform in the world. So if you could, please take just a few moments to subscribe, rate, and review somewhere in the skies on Apple Podcasts.

Or wherever your podcatcher allows it, it helps us gain visibility and find new listeners. We're on Twitter at SummerSkies and Instagram at SummerSky's Pod. And lastly, I want to thank all our essential workers out there. and all of you who've helped us get through these deeply challenging times in our world. I'm wishing all of you my very best. Be safe, be well. And remember, keep your feet on the ground, but never stop searching.

Somewhere in the Skies. Somewhere in the Skies is produced by Third Kind Productions, in association with the Entertainment One Podcast Network.