Somewhere in the Skies - Special Episode | Remembering Stanton T. Friedman

Episode Date: May 13, 2022

On a very special episode of SOMEWHERE IN THE SKIES, a collection of UFO researchers, journalists, and podcasters join Ryan in paying tribute to the one and only Stanton T. Friedman. Today is the anniversary of his passing, as we remember the prolific life and career of the "Godfather of UFOlogy." Friedman was one of the most outspoken, best known, and most trusted scientific UFO researchers in North America. He was employed for fourteen years as a nuclear physicist on many advanced nuclear and space system development programs for such companies as General Electric, Westinghouse, and General Motors. Since 1967, he lectured on flying saucers throughout the world. He is the author of many books and papers on UFOs, and appeared on hundreds of radio and TV programs. We look back at Episode 50 of Somewhere in the Skies for a wide-ranging discussion with Friedman, hoping that he has finally found the answers he always sought in life, somewhere in the skies. Help the people of Ukraine: https://bit.ly/37ELIRS Ryan is now on Cameo! Book your video today at: https://bit.ly/3kwz3DO Patreon: www.patreon.com/somewhereskies Website: www.somewhereintheskies.com YouTube Channel: CLICK HERE Official Store: CLICK HERE Somewhere in the Skies Coffee: CLICK HERE  Order Ryan’s book in paperback, ebook, or audiobook: https://amzn.to/3PmydYC Twitter: @SomewhereSkies Instagram: @SomewhereSkiesPod Read Ryan’s Articles by CLICKING HERE Watch Mysteries Decoded for free at: https://bit.ly/3rJpbd7 Opening Theme Song, "Ephemeral Reign" by Per Kiilstofte Copyright © 2022 Ryan Sprague. All rights reserved. Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/somewhere-in-the-skies. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Choice Hotels get you more of what you value. Comfort in. It's calling your name. Save on the stay. Oh, and free waffles are yours to claim. Book direct at storesotails.com. This is Somewhere in the Skies with Ryan Sprague. Hi, guys, Ryan Sprague here from Somewhere in the Skies.

And welcome to a very special episode of the show today. We're going to be going back to episode 50 of the podcast, where I had the amazing, an opportunity to interview nuclear physicist turned uphologist Stanton T. Friedman. Now, today is actually the anniversary of Stanton's passing. So I thought it would be a very fitting way to go back and to look at the life and career of this man that inspired so many of us in the UFO field. He dedicated over half a century of his life to investigating UFOs. So truly something to aspire to, for sure.

But not only me, I've invited a bunch of my friends and colleagues in the world of podcasting and in Uphology to also come on here and pay their own tributes to Stanton as well. So we're going to play those tributes for you first, and then we're going to dive right into the interview I did with Staten on episode 50 of Summer in the Skies. So I hope you enjoy this. And remember, keep your feet on the ground, but never stop searching somewhere in the skies. Hello to all of you somewhere in the skies fans out there. Thank you so much for inviting me to share my thoughts about the late but great Stanton Friedman. Of course, thank you to Ryan Sprague for inviting me to do this. My connection to Stanton actually goes back to the very beginning of the Black Vault. And I'm talking about literally before day one. And when I first got into the field, so to speak, but more so just as a curious mind, not someone that aim to actually do something or contribute, but rather just learn. I was 15 years old.

It has now been almost 26 years since then, not to age myself, but I'm getting up there. And I reached out to quite a few people that were the quote unquote big names in the UFO field. And I don't need to name them all or any of them, rather just Stanton Friedman was what was one on that list. And I was a 15 year old kid. To be honest with you, I didn't expect anybody to write me back. And one of them did. And that was Stanton Friedman. And he talked to me about his research. He talked to me about MJ12 and sent me at no charge a lot of papers that he wrote and information that I could use. And I never thought, number one, he would do that. But number to remember me. And that meant so much to me because there were there were price tags in the

sense that he was selling these things at conferences and stuff like that. But for him, it wasn't about making even a penny off of me, but rather it was, hey, kid, you seem curious. Here's everything I got. Have fun. Fast forward a couple of years. And I had ran into Stanton Friedman at a conference. At this point, I did make the decision to want to contribute and, and, and, and create the black vault. Never thought that that man would remember me. And sure enough, he did. Not only did he remember me, but remembered why I wrote, knew a little bit about what I was doing and trying to accomplish. And we were friends ever since. He was an amazing researcher because of his detail. because of what some would call nitpicking, but what I would call thoroughness,

that he would look into every single corner of a story, that he would dissect every person, every place, every document, every photograph, every drawing, every soil sample, you name it. He would dig in and look at every piece of the puzzle. And I learned from that very early. I learned how to be a researcher and an investigator by looking at how Stanton would frame his investigations. I remember one time I got to go to the National Archives in D.C. with Stanton Friedman, just him and I. And we sat at a table together.

And I remember he was pulling Roswell era documents that had never seen the light of day before. And this had to go back probably 20 years or so. And I thought to myself, I'm sitting next to Stanton. Friedman at the National Archives watching him do his thing. And that was an amazing moment for me, just because of the respect I had for him already, but just to see the work that he put in. Here we are in 2022. I can guarantee you that most researchers nowadays don't put that level of work into the research and into figuring out the answers. that many gloss over a lot of the pieces to the puzzle just because they think they know what the

entire picture was. And I always remember and try to remember and try to remind myself that Stanton Friedman was who he was because he looked at every single piece of the puzzle. And I've tried to model my work the same exact way. Doesn't always make everybody happy, but it was a bar that he set for the field as a whole. And it was up to anybody who wanted to jump into the arena to try and meet that bar. The last thing I would want to say about Stanton away from his research was the man himself. Not the gentleman that wrote me when I was 15. That's a given.

He was a gentleman and someone who would give you the time of day if you asked any time of the day. Didn't matter if he was busy. He seemed to always be there. for those who wanted to chat with him. And you would see him at conferences and he would sit at his book table and just talk from sunrise to sunset. He was always there and very rarely even took a lunch break, let alone you would see an empty table. But more so than that, I think that you look at his work and conversations that he had. He didn't belittle you if you didn't agree with him.

Of course he had heated debates over the years. And of course people got under his skin. He's human, not a God. But the openness that he had to hear other people and hear opposing views was something that he loved. And you could tell just by being able to take part in those onstage panels. I was able to sit next to him on many of them. He was always open to ideas and would never shut people down.

he would get heated like anybody as I said but he was open to those and I think that that we can all even though we may not always agree with Stanton's conclusions and he knew I didn't but it didn't matter it was the respectful conversation that went along with him and the lessons over the years that he taught everybody I think here in 2022 we can all myself included look back and go you know what that's what this is all about. Talking to other people, sharing ideas, and it doesn't matter at the end of the day if they buy into everything that we say, I say, or vice versa. But we can have the conversation in the process.

That was the person that I knew over two decades, well over two decades. That's the man that I miss. I wish that he was still around for me to call on my telephone or him to call me, and we had amazing conversations over the years. There's not many people that I trust like that and how I trusted him. So he's a man I think we can all look up to. We don't always have to agree with his conclusions. But the method that he got himself to essentially utilize himself to make his own conclusions,

we can all take a lesson from that. And that's something that I miss. And that's just such a rare gem in this field and not something that really is prevalent sadly anymore. So I think about him often. And there's a reason not only on a personal level, but a professional level, we can all learn a lot from him and continue to learn from him, even though sadly he has been gone for a couple years now. We can all learn from that. And many more people will learn if they take the time to look. That is the Stanton Friedman I knew. I got to interview Stanton Friedman four times, the first time being back in all.

August of 2005 for the second episode of the paranormal podcast before anybody knew what a podcast was. In each and every time, I found him insightful and delightful and really enjoyed our time together. So imagine my excitement in 2019 when I was asked by George Nore and his team to go be on a panel with Stanton or at an event with Stanton that they were doing down in Columbus, Ohio. just south here of Cleveland to hop, skip and jump down the freeway. So May 2019, I got in my family truckster and drove down to Columbus and got to meet Stanton, spent a lot of time with him in the green room before the event. And, you know, when he went on stage, it was just magic. And he wowed the crowd with his insight, with his knowledge, with his wit.

came off stage glowing and yet another big win. After the event, I had the privilege to have an after-event meal with Stanton and Marianne Winkowski, the Ghost Whisperer, the person who that series, that TV series was based on. I thought this was great. You know, what I'll do is I'll let an appropriate amount of time pass and I'll get back in touch with Stanton and really enjoyed. I can't say how much I enjoyed his presentation, but also I enjoyed the time we got to spend together in the green room, probably for a couple of hours just chatting about UFOs and his thoughts. Now, honestly, I'm not even sure if he remembered necessarily our previous interviews because he gets interviewed by so many people, but he was just great. So anyway, I thought, you know, this will pass and I'll let some time pass, and I'll get back in touch, and we'll have, great interview and having gotten to know each other a little bit.

So I was shocked within a couple of days to open up Facebook and see that Stanton had passed en route back home. And just such a sad circumstance. And I was very sad and very troubled by it. It was just such a shock. I'd just seen him a couple of days before. But then I thought about it. And he went out with his boots on. He went out doing what he loved.

love to do. He got to speak in front of an enthusiastic crowd and share with him his knowledge and his views and sold a few books, shook a few hands, just probably the way he would have wanted to go out. I only wish we had the opportunity to interview him again and get his thoughts on everything that has happened in the last three years, the government UFO report and all the kind of infighting going on about which route the U.S. government is going to take with UFO investigation and so forth, but I guess we'll never know. But Stanton, salute to you, sir. In one of my episodes, I know I termed him the world's greatest eophologist, and I think that's very apt. So Stanton Friedman, thank you for everything you have contributed to this field.

And Ryan, thank you for doing this. Very good thing to do, very appropriate. for a great man. Hi, this is Earl Gray Anderson. I'm state director of Southern California for Mufon, the Mutual UFO Network. I met Stanton Friedman once, but it was very meaningful. I looked up to Stanton. I had read most of everything that he had published when I had met him. And I went to the Mufon Symposium that was in Irvine, California, back in

2016 and Stanton was one of the keynote speakers. He was also on multiple panels and you know, he was kind of the ultimate euphologist. Those of us that were serious about the phenomenon, we all looked up to Stanton. No matter what side of the tent you come from, you know, Stanton was sort of top of the tent, top tier uphologist. And he will, he will, always be seen as that. It was right at the end of the conference and the crowd had kind of thinned out around Stanton. I was ready to go home. It looked like he was probably ready to go and catch a plane, but I was one of the last few people that came up to him. I had a hardcover copy of top secret magic. And I handed it to him. He opened up the book. He opened up the book.

He looked at me, he noticed it was a first edition, which it was, and it is, and he smiled. He had a little twinkle in his eye. He said, this book caused a little bit of a controversy, you know. I laughed and I said, well, yeah, it's a good book and it's one of my favorites of yours. And he kind of nodded and he didn't quite wink, but there was that twinkle. he signed the book i'm going to open it up here to the frontest page it says best wishes earl from stanton t freedman top secret it's all magic you know stanton he he understood the nuts and bolts of this phenomenon but he also understood the magic and god bless he stanton uh rock and peace

wherever you are out there uh probably chasing down UFOs and aliens and some other dimension At first, I didn't think it was real. I woke up to this blinding light, and I was transported to another place. Pluto TV! Then I heard a voice. Come with me if you want to live. There were thousands of movies and shows, and they were all free. The truth is ours.

It's just so beautiful. On Pluto TV, free streaming of Terminator 2, Fringe Arrow, the 100 NX files may cause excitement, loss of sleep, and sudden belief in extraterrestrials. No credit cards or alien encounters necessary. Pluto TV, stream now pay never. Remembering Stanton Terry Friedman, Stan, I think of a man who was very kind, a true gentleman, and so very passionate about the subject of UFOs. I think of my friend. I first came into contact with Stan in the late 1990s through our mutual friend, Errol Bruce Knapp, who was the creator of the original UFO updates in Toronto.

I was just starting out as a UFO investigator and I was feeling a little intimidated. I had not felt very welcomed by my local investigators, so I branched out on my own. And here was this legend, this legendary UFO investigator who was encouraging. who was encouraging me and making me feel like I could make a difference and that my contribution to UFology actually mattered. And I cannot express adequately in words my gratitude to my friend Stan for his kindness and his support. Stan Friedman is part of a very very very.

rich UFO history. And not just in Canada, where we both made our home, but in the United States and around the world. He was instrumental in the disclosure movement and getting the Canadian government to open up their UFO files. But it would take hours for me really to do his contributions to Uphology justice. So I think I will just concentrate on one that to me personally is actually a very big part. I am a UFO experiencer as well as an investigator. And I really do not think that the general public who have not come into contact with the phenomena have any good idea that the effect that it has on us,

or the trauma it can create and the difficulty in our ability to openly talk about our experiences. Stanton Friedman made it okay to speak our truths. He was scientifically trained and he called out those people who claim to speak for science, who ridicule us, who ridicule experiencers, and who dismiss the subject of UFOs. Stan was a great supporter. He was a champion. And I miss him. Hey guys, it's Cam from expanded perspectives.

And first off, Ryan, thank you so much for thinking to me and reaching out for me for one of these Stanton stories. And I would love to share one. I actually, I was very privileged and I got to spend time with him. And I wouldn't say a lot of time. I mean, we're talking 15, 20 minutes. And that was it. I'd met him in Arkansas when my wife and I went there for the UFO conference. He was such a great guy. He was, man, he was very genuine. It was weird. It was real grandfather-like. I think I've talked about this before, but

it was sitting there with him. And I didn't even ask him about UFOs. I didn't exchange that with him. And he seemed to be like he seemed to enjoy that part of it. not being always hammered with the questions. I don't know. Like I said, 15, 20 minutes. How well can you know a man? But I will tell you this. He seemed genuinely happy with the way he was leaving things. And what I mean by that is I ask him, I said, do you enjoy yourselves, do you still enjoy yourself coming to these and being involved in this? And he smiled and he said, yeah. He said, I still, I enjoy seeing it. I enjoy seeing the people. I enjoy being involved and I enjoy seeing everybody.

It was very, like I said, it was very grandfather-like. And he was funny. As a great sense of humor, him and I were cutting up and making jokes. And I had a great time with him. He was, like I think I've said before, he reminded me a lot of my grandfather. And it was very weird. It was odd. It was an odd thing.

It was just an odd thing to get to share that time with him and see him, you know, as growing up and, of course, buying things and having his things. and then having signed a few things for me. So it was a very pleasant experience that I got to spend with him. And it was just a genuine. I think I feel like I got to look at a little bit of him when he wasn't, you know, he's moved past that part. He's moved past the, oh, it's Stanton and everybody goes crazy and all that stuff.

In his life, in his mind, he had moved well past that. And he seemed very happy with the way he was leaving things. And I'll throw a picture up here somewhere on the screen. And you could see where him and I are having a good thing. laugh and he had said something awful funny and got me a little chuckled. So anyway, thank you so much. Didn't mean to ramble. It's just I hadn't really given it a lot of thought Ryan until you reached out and it kind of caught me off guard, but it really was a pleasant memory to go back to. So yeah, I thank you so much for thinking about me, folks. Thanks so much

for supporting Ryan and listening and everything and helping him out. And it's great. We all get to share in this and it's just, Stanton was a good one. He was a fun guy to be part of. So, Ryan, thanks so much for inviting me on to do all this, and y'all take care of folks. Hey, everybody. This is Eric Schlimmer. Checking in from beautiful Colorado, where I'm a therapist. And thank you somewhere in the skies for asking me to share my memories of Stanton Friedman. I didn't know Stanton Friedman well. I only met him once.

But here we are 22 years later, and I still remember I'm reading. and it's kind of funny. I was in my kitchen last week and just out of the blue I said, wait, I think I met Stanton Friedman. And I did. And so I was a college student

way up in the northeast corner of New York working on my undergrad and back then, of course, there was 2000, there was no internet and so where you would find the concerts and the sporting events and the film to attend was a weekly paper out of Burlington, Vermont, seven days, which is still in publication. I'm flipping through it, and I find an announcement

that Stanton Friedman is coming to town. And the beauty of the internet, I actually found the announcement. It's right in front of me here. From the March 29, 2000 edition of seven days, and it says, flying saucers are real. Nuclear physicist, Stanton Friedman gives an illicit. illustrated talk on UFO's, anti-gravity technologies, and governmental conspiracies. Angel Center Ballroom, Plattsburgh State University, 7 p.m., 5. Now, Friedman was the only UFO guy I knew of back then. I had read a couple books on the subject and found it pretty interesting, so I said, hell, it's probably going to be worth five bucks to listen to and maybe even meet.

Stanton Friedman. The lecture he gave was quite compelling. A lot of really good images of these silver disks-shaped craft. He was very confident. They were propelled by nuclear energy. He made a very, very good case for his reasoning. Of course, he's a nuclear physicist. Totally knew what he was talking about. He discussed a couple of famous updusts. The production cases, the most famous one being, of course, Barney and Betty Hill over in the White Mountains of New Hampshire, and he was friends with them, interviewed them at length, and so he told their entire story, which I had heard of before, but he offered such great additional details to it. I really liked Stanton Friedman. Again, I only met him once, but just came across as a very genuine guy. I like that he kind of looked like a mad scientist.

He had this little kind of glimmer in his eye, I guess he could say, that mad scientist look. Probably made quite a bit of money being a nuclear physicist, but still bought his suits at Sears like the common man. And I like that. So after the presentation, I got to meet him, and I said, hey, I can ask you a question, you know, can you talk a little bit more about the performance characteristics of these craft

compared to some of our fast stuff, for example, the SR 71, goes about 3,200 miles an hour, and hangs out around 60,000 feet. And if it's going to do a 180-degree turn, it takes about half the state of Ohio. And he gave me this look like, how does this 26-year-old college kid even know this stuff? Who even knows this? And so he started sharing the characteristics, the flight characteristics of these craft. and sure enough they mirrored what we're seeing today, particularly the 2004 Nimitz incident with Commander David Fravor.

He was very thorough, very nice guy, shook his hand, and thanked him for his time. And away he went. So somewhere in the Sky's podcast, thanks for having me share my thoughts. Take care, everybody. What can I tell you about Stan Friedman? I first met Stan back in the,

1970s when he was on one of his tours across Canada, you know, went to all sorts of universities and colleges talking about UFOs. And I happened to be in charge of bringing in some speakers, and so I had brought him in coordination with some of the student unions, and I ended up driving around. And then after that time, the first time, he came back, I think maybe even the next year or the year after. And we got to be friends. He ended up staying at my home rather than going to a hotel, you know, to save some money because Stan was like that.

And, you know, over the years I went to his home. I got to see firsthand what his amassed collection of papers and documents looked like. The photo you've seen of him sitting amidst all those documents is the one that I took a number of years ago. and we ended up connecting in person quite a few times. He ended up going to Minnesota Paracon quite a bit and it was only about eight or ten hours away from me so drove to meet him there.

We went for dinner in the hotel and in those off times when he wasn't speaking and wasn't selling his books at the Minnesota Paracan I thought it would be a good idea to just interview him one on one, and I produced a series of videos, or I asked him a whole bunch of questions about euthology, but then I asked him a few other things.

And I remember one time, out of left field, I asked him, do you have any regrets in eufology of what you've done and your work in eophology after all these years? And he paused, and he sat back and said, yeah, as a matter of fact, I regret I didn't spend as much time with my family. And that's a message that I think we all have to take into account. I mean, uphology is a passion. People are really, really focused on this.

But I guess the reality is there's something more important. It's us as human beings relating to one another, sharing one's life experiences with a partner, We are built to have relationships with one another. And, you know, in these days when UFO Twitter is nothing but flame wars, and there's lots of accusations and there's false information, it's time to sit back and just evaluate who we are, what we're really doing, and to take a good look at ourselves,

and maybe bring some new perspective to Uphology. and I'm really glad I had those opportunities to spend with Stan. He was a mentor. I considered him a friend, and his passing was a great loss to many people and to me personally. First of all, Ryan, a monsoon of thanks for including me in such an honorable thing that you're doing for what I consider to be one of the giants in the subject,

of UFOs and alien visitation here on Earth. I really appreciate, you know, the opportunity. We've only got a few minutes so that I'm going to make this quick, because I could go on and on with all the stories about Stanton, but the truth is, he is and always will be, the gold standard of euphology to me. And as long as I'm involved in this subject, that's just the way it's going to be.

He has never, in my opinion, misrepresented any of us who have a passion in the research, the investigation and the study of intelligent life visiting Earth and the parameters and protocols that go into investigating and researching a subject that was very taboo when he started. And especially with someone with his credentials, someone with his background, his education, his skill sets. As an archival researcher, Stanton Friedman, was the pinnacle. I've often said about him and, well, we could go way down the road with names, but Linda Moulton Howe right off the top of my head and many others, when the government goes out

of their way to toy with you, you know you're doing something right. You know you're going in a direction that has sort of poked the beehive, if you will. And that may not necessarily be the fact that aliens are here or have been here or that they in fact even exist. It could be that you stumbled upon something that the government is doing that they don't want you to know. But at the same time, we do know that that did happen with Stanton Friedman on many occasions. So in my estimation, when that happens, you must be doing something. something in the right way when it comes to investigating these subjects that we all have an interest in. With Stanton, it was a privilege and an honor to come to know who he is, and a big feather in my cap came in January, the end of January of 2019, some four months before he passed.

When I had the chance to interview him on camera, maybe perhaps one of the last times he was ever interviewed. on camera. And it was that interview that I began to see time catching up with our friend Stanton. He was having some trouble keeping his train of thought, staying on track with his answers. And I could see he was laboring. It was difficult for him. He obviously knew what was happening. And that made it worse on him. So I did the best I could to comfort him and rearrange things in in the order of questions that I had prepared for him. And it honestly, it prompted me to go in a direction I never intended. I actually asked him about his legacy and about what was going to happen with his archives and

did he have plans and that kind of thing. And he actually told me about what was going to happen with his archives. About the University of New Brunswick were going to, they were coming to get them as we spoke that they had retrieved eight file cabinets and were coming back to get so many more file cabinets and so many more boxes to take back to co-late and organize and make them available to the public and he was quite proud of that. After the interview, he stopped me and he said, race, he said, you know, why did you ask me about my files? And I was like, well, Stanton, your legacy is vitally important to us. The work that you have accumulated, the volume of work. You

that you have done is going to go down in history of some of the best ever done. If there was anybody really in the know and really important in this subject, you talked to them and they gave you the time and they trusted in you and you gave me the time, literally getting off of his lawnmower, walking in and doing a one and a half hour interview with myself and Royce Fitzgerald on eyewitness radio. You know, the guy was just amazing. up until his very last day he dedicated himself to the truth about the reality of UFOs. And I will never forget the man, the best of the best.

A true benchmark for all of us in the study of the UFO reality. Hi, my name is Rich Hoffman. I'm one of the board members of SCU. And I'd like to be able to give a little bit of a shout out to stand. Terry Friedman. Stanton and I had a chance to meet in about the time, in mid-70s, I believe. He was going around to many of the colleges around the country, actually delivering lectures. And I was, of course, attending college in Ohio University, and he happened to come by.

And I had a chance to meet him beforehand, and we had a chance to hear his lecture, which was, by the way, excellent. I'm aware of the fact that he was also, prior to me, I got started in 1964. He had been doing a little bit of work with it and trying to promote the idea, but he really got going in 1970. And at that time, I was like, you know, largely. And I was already into it at that time in Dayton, Ohio area. Stanton and I never had a chance to meet in the Dayton, Ohio area. But we did have it.

I recall going to a conference. in Columbus, Ohio, and this might have been in the mid-70s. And we had a chance to, I had a chance to have a meal with him at a restaurant prior to hearing Jenny Zidman's recounting of the Larry Coin case in Ohio. This was a helicopter pilot who actually saw an object that actually pulled the helicopter up from a descent mode. And it was a pretty exciting case. But anyway, Stanton and I had a chance.

to actually really sit down and talk to each other for the very first time. We had a lot of commonalities. He actually was actually at one point working, I believe, at Westinghouse, and also was somehow connected to Cincinnati. And, of course, me being a date, and I had a chance, you know, I was familiar with the organization, and we had a long conversation. Very fascinating man, very intelligent, very willing to confront and debate anybody. He did an amazing amount of debating against a variety of skeptics, including Michael Shermer,

and I think Phil Klass was one of those the ones that he tend to go after. And by the way, I will point out that Stanton won $1,000 off of Phil Klass for a bet that they made talking about the Majestic 12 documents. But anyway, Stanton was quite a character. I always enjoyed the fact that he was willing to mention the word and call it flying saucers, as opposed to UFOs. I thought that that brought an element of understanding for a lot of people, and he was just not afraid to say that.

He would do that all the time. I also had a chance in about 20, is 2016? No, it's 2016. I was giving a presentation on the Aguadilla case in Orlando, Florida at the Moufan conference. And I typically, when I went to move on conferences, I also went over and talked with Stanton about a lot of different things, got his books, of course, and had a chance to have him sign him. And so I hold those very dear to me right now. But I will recall that we had a chance to chat about the Aguania case. In addition to that, a whole lot of other things.

And I was also a moderator of a panel, which him and Kathy Martin and a whole bunch of other people, Tony Angiolea, and Ben Moss and a number of others were on. It was very, very exciting to hear his views being expressed and me being able to finally ask him a lot of them as a moderator at that session. I'll always remember that. Very sad to see the man go. He always was very, very upbeat about the topic, very willing to discuss and debate anybody, as I said.

And I just really miss him. I mean, he was just a great guy. And I want to say, Ryan, thanks for the opportunity to be able to express my deepest memories of the man and a tribute to him. Thank you. Hi, I'm Jason. And I'm Louis, and we're the host of UAP Studies podcast. And what can you say about Stanton Friedman? Well, for my own personal opinion, this man was a legend and somebody to look up to a nuclear physicist.

So skeptics always want hard evidence. They wanted to come from science minds. And this was a science mind that was unapologetically a uphologist. In fact, he used to say many times, I am not an apologist, eophologist. He was the original civilian investigator of the Roswell incident. He was the first non-government person allowed to investigate that. And to have access to Project Blue Book and reports and all the rest. He was a classmate of Carl Sagan.

And even though he criticized him and opposed him, he's still coming from that era. You know, he's appeared on over 36 movies and TV series. He's written his books. You know, he's helped other hidden reports within big reports come to light. For example, Project Blue Book had a special report, number 14, I think it was called. And essentially, it was another 3,200 sightings. And the unknown percentage was 21%. So when you hear reports of things that are like,

1% couldn't be explained or, you know, one out of a thousand or whatever that is, this was a buried report that had much stronger numbers. And he brought that to light. And for myself, I regret never having a chance to meet the man. I think very highly of him. I would have to have him on the show. What about you, Jay? Well, yeah, I would agree with you.

He was a pioneer when he came down to Uphology and somebody of his reputation. I mean, you couldn't beat that. and the fact that he put himself out there to say, hey, something's going on here, look at the evidence that we're able to gather. He had his critics, and he was harsh on his critics, as probably as equally as hard that they were harsh on him. But he did have a point. He put himself out there. He was the one who had the boots on the ground investigating the stuff coming out with reports,

while his critics would only just read his material after the fact and didn't say something to the effect that they didn't agree with what he said. Yeah, he was definitely critical of debunkers. And most of his critics were people that said, well, there's no conclusive evidence. In fact, he got in a debate with Philip Klaas. And Philip Klaas said, I'll pay Stanton Friedman $100 for any concrete proof. And Stanton gave him 10 different points of actual documented proof. And Philip Klass gave him a thousand bucks. So even his debunkers respected him.

You know, he's a man without enemies, really. And somebody, everybody knows and loves and respects. never had his own real opinion of things. It was just more of a humbling. Yeah, there's your sketch of Stanton Friedman. Yeah, everybody has a Stanton Friedman, you know, a story or, you know, documentary that if he wasn't part of a UFO documentary back in the day, it wasn't worth watching.

I agree. Yeah. And I looked it up before doing this little clip. And, yeah, 36 different movies and TV series he's appeared on. Oh, really? You know, he was a nuclear physicist. He was a professor at the University of Chicago. he's got a master's degree.

You know, when people talk about, you know, only sort of open-minded or kind of, you know, spatial thinkers are into the topic of euphology, you don't get much more scientific than a nuclear physicist. I mean, he's the real deal and still humble enough to say,

hey, we don't know. And in fact, the more you looked at it, the more, you know, unknown became improbable. And it was more like unidentified. And, you know, he was big on kind of separating the whole, are they real question versus how do they operate question? And are they real for him was a given? So he wanted to focus more on, you know, the size, the surface, the shape, the texture.

Like, did they exist? Let's get into the, you know, what we call nuts and bolts euphology today. It wouldn't exist if it wasn't for the work of him, you know, to step out and be crazy enough to say, hey, call me what you like. But this is actually there. There's science behind it. Everything that came out that said it was inconclusive. was nonsense. You know, he found buried documents, modified documents. He's been through this,

you know, George Knapp is a legend, but I mean, Stanton Friedman came before George Knapp. You know, he's the, in my opinion, one of the original torch bears of this whole thing, if not the pioneer. I only found out that Stanton was Canadian when he passed away. I had no idea that he was Canadian. I think he lived most of his life in the States. He got married. and then when his first wife passed away, he moved back to St. John, New Brunswick. And coincidentally, I mean, I'm from Toronto. And so when I read that he passed away in Toronto,

I looked it up and he wasn't living there. He had a heart attack at the Toronto airport. So, yeah, I guess when it's your time, it's your time, regardless if you're Stanton Freeman or not. Well, thanks, Ryan, for having us on the podcast. We really appreciate it for all your listeners out there. If you got a chance, check out UAP Studies podcast. Hey, this is Alan B. Smith from Paranormal Now.

Ryan, thank you so much for allowing me to share my thoughts on Stanton Friedman. On Paranormal Now, the first interview I did was with Stanton Friedman, and that's because he cared to get his message out, which was his research and the fact that he believed that extraterrestrials are visiting Earth, and he had the facts to support it. What made him amazing was his generosity, spirit. I was just a fledgling podcast and he was willing to come on and just talk. People could stop him in the street and he'd stop and give him the time and talk about the subject. On camera,

off camera, whatever. That was the kind of person that he was. It often wasn't always seen because the subjects that came up were euphology. But he really was a really kind person and very gracious. But what I want to impart the most, I think, is how profoundly impactful he was, his voice. He, in the way he could communicate, his cadence, his passion, it transmitted through TV, in person, in writing, in late-night radio, like Coast to Coast a.m., when I heard him on there many years ago. And as a kid, in the late 80s and the 90s, the Roswell case blew uphology up. And it was like a wave that just went across the country and the entire world. And a lot of that, I give credit to Stanton Friedman. He spoke in a way that resonated with

people. He can talk about science and physics and documents and, you know, documents and dates and names that for some might have otherwise been boring. And somehow he made it enthralling and not with hyperbole. He was just such an eloquent speaker. And I have so much respect for the passion that he was able to imbue on younger minds from when I was growing up to recent years. And I hope, I hope perpetually and indefinitely, because you know, you can go out and you You can listen to his interviews and his recordings and TV shows and documentaries with him. And that's for generations to come. And I think that, you know, there's a resource of knowledge that is forever valuable, whether we get full disclosure or not.

I encourage everyone to go out and just listen to a stand again. You know, he had a way of communicating that made it over. okay to talk about the idea that extraterrestrials are visiting on Earth, that Roswell Crash was real, and there was a UFO that was downed in Corona, New Mexico. And you can take his phrasing and bring that into a conversation with friends and family without sounding, you know, hyperbolic. So again, I can't express how much I appreciate the work he did sociologically. for all of us who care about this subject of uphology. So thanks again, Ryan.

Peace and love to everybody out there and live in the mystery. Hi, I'm Ross Coulter, author of In Plain Sight. I never had the pleasure of meeting Stan Friedman, but I deeply admire how, as a scientist, he recognized very early on that UAPs are a real phenomenon, not something that can be readily dismissed with a prosaic explanation. I also enjoy how he monstered that clique of blinkered debunkers who seemed determined to reject any analysis of the available evidence with his definitive cranky rebuttal. In particular, I share Stan's skepticism about SETI, the search for extraterrestrial intelligence.

If there is a highly advanced non-human intelligence out there elsewhere in the universe, why on earth would they use? radio waves to communicate. I'm sure stands on a cloud somewhere, cursing Congress for being so slow to open up about what it now knows. Stanton Friedman, my fondest memory of Stanton is my first one. Growing up, Stanton was the face of uphology, its TV, his documentaries, his books, I read them all. And when I started Fade to Black, I wanted Stanton on the show like everybody does, right? So I tried to get his email. I go to his website and his phone number is there. And I stared at it for a minute.

Do I dial this number? And the crazy part about this is that I thought I was the only one going through this. And I have since heard this story repeated many times with others. But it's this. I dial the number. He picked up. And Stan Friedman. And I said, Stan, this is Jimmy Church. I give him the pitch. Started a new show and would love to have you on. When? This week. Cool. Send me the info. I'll be there. And it was not only did he make me feel comfortable, but that original. interview for me was divine and speaking to the Stanton Friedman. And over the years, he became a great friend and the conversations that we had both public and private were just amazing. And I'll

cherish them forever. There was one other moment I want to share with you. Stanton was just amazing. We were on stage. We've got a couple of thousand people in front of us, and I'm hosting this panel. Stanton is on the panel, and the subject comes up about Bob Lizar. And I said whatever I said. And Stanton schooled me with everybody there. And I was ruffled, and it was an honor to have that happen. Later, after the panel ended, we were backstage, and Stanton came up to me

and slapped me on the shoulder and said, you did good, kid. Stanton was the best. Thank you, Ryan, for doing this little celebration of Stanton Friedman. This is Jimmy Church of Fade to Black. Everybody behave out there

and enjoy the rest of the show. Whatever bike you're looking for from mountain to road, either pedal powered or electric, we've got what you want ready for super fast delivery. Quality gear at prices you won't find in your average bike shop. BikesHonline.com. Ride more for less. Stan, thank you so much for joining me today on Somewhere in the Skies.

Well, I enjoy doing interviews, and I certainly enjoy talking about what's going on in the skies. Yes, I would say so, and we will definitely get into that. I mean, Stan, so the first book I ever read on the UFO topic was, Crash at Corona, written by both you and Don Berliner. And I was terrified, terrified as a 13-year-old to think that, you know, UFOs are flying around in space, but now they're also crashing on our planet. And that fear turned to obsession. I've been researching ever since.

So I would love to hear, you know, for our audience that may not know this story, your origin story, as it were, of how you got involved in all this to begin with. Well, it was one of a number of topics I was interested in. As a kid, I read science fiction. You know, when I was 10 years old and the pulp magazines, I'm old enough to remember the popes and all that sort of stuff. And then I got into more serious science, and I got a couple of degrees. And I had a habit of buying books and new stuff.

And I needed one more book. It was strictly unintentional. Life just moves on. I did one more book so I wouldn't have to pay shipping on an order for Marlborough. books in the art. There's a report on unidentified flying objects. This is 1958,

mind you, by Air Force Captain Edward J. Rupelt. Now, I was working on an Air Force sponsored program, the Aircraft Nuclear Prohibition Department at General Electric. So I had a great deal of respect to the Air Force then, anyway. And

I got the book, figured it was $2.99 or something marked down to a dollar and saved me the shipping costs on that big order of books. It really wasn't costing me anything. So what the heck? We could afford it. If it's not a sense. Okay. So I read

the book and it intrigued me. It didn't convince me. But I read ten more books. And then in the early 1960s, at the University of California, Berkeley Library, I lived at that time. I had moved from

General Electric to Aeroget General Nucleonics, which is East San Francisco. So I'd go over to Berkeley and I read 10 more books. And then I made the, had the great epiphany, if you will. I found a copy of something Project Blue Books, special report number 14. And a surprising thing was it hadn't been mentioned in any of the 10 books that I had read. So that seems obvious of something, Project Blue Books, Special Report number 14. And a surprising thing was it hadn't been mentioned in any of the ten books that I had read. So that seems strange.

Where the heck did this come from? You know, and it was an official government report. And the work I found out later was done by Battelle Memorial Institute in Columbus, Ohio. And as it turns out, I had dealings with Battell. I did a study, how do you like this title for a study, analysis and evaluation of fast and intermediate reactors for space vehicle application. One important word was left out, Soviet. I was looking at the literature that I could get

on Russian publications in the scientific areas that would be concerned with developing nuclear power systems for space. And I would go back to the people who had the best collection of Russian literature were Patel Memorial Institute. And turns out they were the people who did Blue Book Special Report 14, even though their name isn't on it. Interesting. Their connection was classified as it happened.

So I was intrigued with Patel. I would go back there once a month or so to talk to the people of Patel and then also Air Force people that Wright Patterson Air Force face. So I would go back there. I was very impressed with Patel, but I also would be looking at their UFO stuff

while I was going to it. Right. And that got me really tooling along because Blue Book Special Report 14, the biggest study ever done for the United States Air Force, mind you, they looked at 3,201 sightings. The report has hundreds of charts, tables, graphs, maps. I was in data heaven. I'm a data fiend.

And what I found was I also discovered, how should I put this, an official lying. That's a nice way to say that. The press release, which the guy who put this privately published version together included, dated 1955. In the press release, it says, on the basis of this study, we believe that no objects such as properly described as flying saucers have overflown the United States. This is the Secretary of the Air Force, my name was Coros. We believe no object such as properly described as flying saucers have overflown in the United States, even the unknown 3 percent. could have been identified as conventional phenomena or illusions if more complete observational data had been available.

Well, if you only saw the press release, that sounds pretty damn good. But I had to report, and I'm a data hound. Where'd they get this unknown 3%? The unknowns were 21.5%. Wow. And 21.5 is not three rounded off. They also further saying that they were full of baloney was they did a cross-compan. between the unknowns, the only ones are interested in, and the knowns.

Remember, the question isn't, are all UFOs alien spacecraft? The question is, are any? Are all isotopes special? Of course not. But fortunately, for us nuclear guys, there's something like. They also did a quality evaluation, the better the quality of the sightings, the more likely to be unexplainable. And a cross-comparison between unknowns and knowns showed that the probability that the unknowns were just misnones was less than 1%.

The groups did not have the same characteristics at all. So I was shocked by this. And the duration of observation was longer for the unknowns than the knowns and all kinds of other data that says these darn things are real. And so I don't like being lied

to. I worked under security at that time and I, you know, I sometimes have to, how should I say, tiptoe around the information. But not out of mine. That's another story. So I got determined. I want to find out why we're being lied to.

I don't like being lied to. And as a scientist, especially. And so I started digging into the literature and digging out more information. And the quest hasn't ended to tell you the truth. But I joined, the first thing that was joined APRO and NYCAP, the two big organizations, which are both defunct now. I joined them to get their monthly newsletters or bi-monthly, whatever it was. that and try to keep up. There was an active group in Pittsburgh.

When I finally moved there, I was one of these, you know, life doesn't take the path you expect it to. My dad worked for the same company for 37 years. So, okay, my first job out of college is General Electric. Well, they're a big company. I could work for them. I looked at as I started on when I was 57. That's great.

And they got several nuclear divisions. No question at all. Oh, it's a lifetime career. Wow, I was going down the tubes. I saw the handwriting on the wall and got out, joined another company for three years, and then realized they were going down and got another job. Three years, you know, totally unexpected,

that you understand. Right. Because I was having to move my family. It's not just walking down the street. Okay, I'll drive two miles this way instead of five miles that way. Yeah. Moving across the country, get to see the country, I guess. and so I spent 14 years in industry.

And on the UFO scene, you know, I was reading the books and stuff, and we set up a group in Pittsburgh, a NICAP subcommittee is what they had at that time. Then we set up on our own because we didn't like them telling us what we should be doing from the NICAP was headquartered in Washington. That was Major Kehoe. And we had a bunch of us of professional people, mostly from Westinghouse where I were. So he set up the group, and I called Frank Edwards.

I'd gotten to know him when he was in the, he wrote a book, Flying Saucer's serious business. He was a journalist from Indianapolis. And on one of my stints, I worked for General Motors, Allison Division, which was working on military compact reactors. Nobody thinks of GM and nuclear reactors, but they were. And got to know, Frank. and when I moved to Westinghouse in Pittsburgh,

I told Frank, I want to go public. You know, everybody, give me some names of the media people because our group was, good things were happening. I felt very good about the group. So he gave me a bunch of names. He was a wide-ranging journalist. Let's put it that way. And one of them was the producer of a radio show

with a great name, Contact. Perfect. for KDKA, Pittsburgh, which is the big station in town, the big media outline. So I called this producer and thought, heck, I'm a Westinghouse nuclear physicist. Pittsburgh's kind of a Westinghouse town, or it was. Westinghouse has kind of gone down the tubes, but at some extent. And so I thought you might want me to have me as a guest on your show contact. Don't call us.

We'll call you. Okay. What the heck? less than a month later at 6.30 in the evening, I get a call from this producer. We had a cancellation. Any chance you could do the show tonight at 7 o'clock? Well, I live close enough at the station. I have to go down there. Now, they didn't do it by radio, by telephone at that time. So I said, yeah, yeah, I can do that. So I went down to the show. Admittedly, I wasn't as sharp at dealing with nasty, noisy, negativists as I am.

I've heard all the entire argument. Right, you acquire that as time goes on, right? Yes. But anyway, I did the show, and as it happens, a woman at Westinghouse, where I worked at the astronaut clean, called me afterwards, she happened to hear the show, and said, Stan, we're reading Frank's book and my Frank Edwards book, and my book review club.

Any chance you could give us a lecture in my living room? Sure, why not? It wasn't too far away. I lived downtown and so forth. So my first talk was in her living room, a few dozen people. And the word got out, and I did more. And then I did the show again. And one day, out of only two days and three years,

that I drive to work from downtown with Joanne, who was the supervisor at Westinghouse, Esternate, Lab. And we were talking, and I was saying, gee, I'd sure like to speak at Carnegie Mellon University. the big university in town. And, well, did you talk to the dean? No. I talked to so-and-so, and he wasn't interested.

She said, Stan, the dean's my husband. Give him a call. He's heard you on a radio. Oh, okay. And so I called Gene, his name was. And we set a date right away four weeks later. And the last question was, how much do you want? Well, it was during the day, so I'd have to take some time off work. So I figured I ought to at least get recovered

than I lost the pay. And so I, how about $100, thinking he'd knocked me down to $50, you understand? And, sure. And then he told me, because I knew his wife,

what he was paying the other speakers in the series, 1,500, 17-19. Wow. So, but the talk went extremely well. We had a big crowd, no nasty questions for anything. And he, a nice letter to the agent from whom we had booked all these other people. And they booked me

at a breakthrough talk, the Engineering Society of Detroit. 300 bucks and expenses. I'm in the big time here. Big top, yep. Well, what really shocked me, and I must admit, I was surprised, they were sold out two weeks in advance for 1,0008 people for dinner and a tar. And there were no negative questions. Now, that couldn't help but impress me. In the Engineering Society of Detroit, we're not talking about little ladies in tennis shoes, you know, or coops with pin hats on. Yeah.

And, again, there went out of negative questions. And then another talk that really impressed me was the local section of the American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics caught together with the, I guess it was the Nuclear Society. There were two groups sponsored a joint lecture. We had over 400 people there. And again, some management at Westinghouse was there, because it was well publicized, and no negative questions and stuff. That had an impact because I got a call from somebody at Los Alamos.

Stan, I understand you're giving lectures about flying saucers. It typically was flying saucers aren't real. I said, oh, yeah, he said, well, how about speaking to the local section of the American Nuclear Society? I said, oh, I'd be delighted to. No, I mean, on an expense account, Stan. Well, I don't make those decisions. I'll ask management. Now, I'm a member of the American Nuclear Society.

Westinghouse was a corporate member. And, of course, Los Angeles was as well. And they said, yes. So they paid for me to go on an expense again, from Pittsburgh to Los Alamos to give a lecture. And that was pretty neat because they had over 400 people, one of the best crowds they ever had. And how can I not be respectful of that audience?

I had been to Los Alamos on business, nuclear rockets and things like that. These are professional people, you know. Yeah. So when I get a good response from these kinds of people, that affects me. I'm doing something useful in sections of the American Institute of aeronics and astronautics and engineering society. Right. You know.

So it was in these circles, and I stress that because people tend to think, well, the only people interested were nutty groups, you know, of the tin ad crowd. Well, it wasn't like that at all. Absolutely. And I mean, I mean, since then, you've done like, gosh, 600 college campuses, every U.S. state, 10 Canadian provinces. Like, I've heard you, you know. 19 other countries. 19 other countries. That's incredible.

These aren't just, I think, like people think, these small little groups of like 10, 12 people who are all hardcore believers. These are people that have genuine questions and they want answers. And, you know, the fact that, you know, these, the people. people you're speaking to, you know, at Los Alamos and all of these prestigious places, how was the response? You said, you know, it was good. Yeah. Well, I judged by the question and answer period. Right, right. I'm like coming at me. And I remember at one lecture, first guy up in the question and answer period, I've never heard so much nonsense in one night in my life. That's a great way to start, you know. And how do I pick him?

And I said, can you please be more specific, sir? I'm glad I said that. I don't know if you would have asked me. I don't know what I would have said I would say, but that's what I did say. Well, you said that Betty and Barney Hill were taken to Zeta reticuli and back. I said, no, sir. What I said was they were taken on board a craft. They didn't go anywhere.

And then were a couple more equally uninformed questions. And finally, after the third one, somebody in the, and which, I had answered, and somebody in the audience says, how about taking some sensible questions? Shout out. This guy got up and left, and I said, I'll take your question, but who was that? Obviously, I irked him.

But it turns out he was a professor of physics. Okay. He hadn't heard what I said at all. So it alerted me to the fact that you can come on pretty strong, and you won't get a hard, respectable hard time from people. You know what I mean? Yeah. There's nothing wrong with asking people.

questions and one guy in a question and answer period I had given some data on a gallop polls showing that the greater of the education are more likely to believe in flying sanctions which comes to a surprise a lot of people he said how about polling of this audience

I said well this is University of Manitoba in Winnipeg about 600 people we were sitting in the aisles I said well normally I'm the one who sticks his neck out I'm not asking the audience so I don't think anybody mine and people collapsed. They'd heard my lecture ready,

you understand. And so I said, okay, I'll ask two questions. How many believe no UFOs are intelligently controlled extraterrestrial spacecraft and how many believe some UFOs are intelligently controlled extraterrestrial spacecraft?

I asked those two questions. I told them what I was going to ask. More than 90% said they told some were. It's reassuring to me, in other words, having gone through all this with all these places and stuff, that Even though people are always saying to me, oh, you must get a hard time. I don't.

I really don't. I'm not a masochist. I don't do this, you know, the strain, the nasty, noisy, negative, I do this to present information. And, you know, I'm a little sneaky, and usually about five large-scale scientific studies. Describe what's in them show us why they can go with and so forth. And then I casually asked how many people here have read this. So typically, you know, I might get it. five.

If you're lucky, yeah. Yeah. And so I know that most people haven't looked at the evidence, and I've been told by people that they were completely unaware of all this data that I present, because I'm a data

and evidence man. I talk about not only Blue Book Special Report 14, I have copies for sale because it wouldn't be fair for me to say, oh, there's this wonderful study. Well, I don't know where you can get a copy, but that's not crooked. because then maybe you're lying, you know, maybe it doesn't say what you say it says, et cetera.

So here, here are copies, autographed. Yeah, yeah, backing it up. I think that's important. And, you know, next week we have Cheryl Kosa on the show who wrote a book about data. And she told a wonderful story about showing you the book, and you told her, finally, someone's doing data. I thought that was hilarious. Well, it's true. That's a rare book because it's got all kinds of information about who's.

see things and stuff. And it's a big fat report. That's not 20 pages kind of thing. Right. And so I hope she sells a ton of them because darn it, conclusions about controversial subjects should be based on evidence, not feelings, not theoretical, not research by proclamation, which is what I run across a lot from the noisy negatious.

And so I like to have the data in my pocket, so to speak. Why is it that most people don't believe in UFOs? Well, you know, what's a reasonable number? Yeah. 20%? That's a lot, especially when the airport says 3%. Right. I've found this great interest all over the world,

and people are interested. They ask reasonable questions, and sometimes I have to say, I don't know. You know, I don't tell them. Why does the government do that? I say, well, in the first place, let's make clear. I do not speak for the government. I speak for me. So I can only hypothesize.

On the other hand, I do have some advantages as a speaker and writer about this subject. One, I worked under security for 14 years. I know how the system works. I had clearance for 14 years, acute clearance, given me access to nuclear data and stuff like that. Two, I worked on advanced propulsion systems. One of the biggest objections from, quote, scientist, unquote, you can't get here from Stan.

Have you forgotten? You know, things can't go fast in a speed of light, and they have to come from hundreds of light years away, which is nonsense. That's one of the things that's changed, are a perception of where we fit in the scheme of things. You know, when Frank Drake in about 1960 first talked about searching for extraterrestrial intelligence.

He met with radio telescopes, of course, but listening for signals, because the astronomical community can't imagine how anybody could go to the astronomical distances. But he thought there might be 6,000 places in the galaxy that could be sending signals. Wow, 6,000! Well, because there aren't many planets, you know.

There are many people saying, hey, we've got the only solar system, man. That has changed with the Kepler satellite, This incredible device, which goes out and back into this for several years, looking for planets. Not easy to find, even with a fancy piece of equipment, but if you're above the atmosphere, you can actually spot the planet going across the face of its star. That's pretty sensitive, is what I'm a great admirer of the technology. And so when you do that, holy cow, there are planets all over.

the place. Absence of evidence is not evidence for absence. That holds for flying saucers as well. The fact that you don't know about it doesn't mean it's not true. And so the latest numbers suggest that there's 1.6 planets per star on the average. Now, what does that mean to give you a neighborhood surveys, so to speak? There are about 10,000 stars within 100 light years of here. It's not that I counted them. The astronomers count them. That means there are about 16,000 planets within 100 light years. So we go from Frank's 6,000 planets to at least 6 billion in the galaxy. So there's several things that our understanding has causes to change in our review about.

One is a number of planets. One is, and the number of stars, too, for that matter. Remember at one time we thought there was only one galaxy. Right. Sorry, billions of them, too, folks. But beyond that, we also... In 1920s, we thought this was a mass of burning gas. That's how the energy is produced.

By 1938, we suddenly realized, ain't no way to get enough energy by, we know the mass of the sun, and we know the energy output and stuff. Somebody's very smart physicists figured out that it was nuclear fusion, which nobody knew anything about before that, really. hydrogen and helium and heavy hydrogen and stuff like that. And they were talking about an incredible increase in the amount of energy per pound of stuff. And then you can see that if you take a big bomb in World War II,

it release the energy of about 10 tons of dynamite and make a big hole in the ground too. It was called a blockbuster. Well, the first atomic bomb, efficient device, 1945, released the energy of 15,000 tons of dynamite, not 10, but 15,000. The first fusion device, fusion is what powers all the stars. The first fusion device released the energy of 10 million tons of dynamite. That was in each spot in 1952. And the Russians sent one off in 61, I guess it was.

Tarbamba! Fifty million tons of dynamite, one stink in the weapon. I mean, and the important, the reason I go through this is that suddenly you've got not only a way of mass destruction, but propulsion to the stars. Exactly, yeah. And I worked on a study of fusion propulsion for deep space travel in 1962 at Eurogeneral Nucleonics. My boss was John Luce. Dr. Luce was a brilliant guy. He was headed the fusion work at Oak Ridge, and we hired him away.

And he had 40 patents. This was a clever man, gentleman, too. And we did a study and concluded that, well, if you want to put out the dough, you can go. I put it simply. Right, right. It won't be cheap. And when I was working, when I say it won't be cheap, many people have no idea, because they don't work in that crazy world of advanced technology development.

I was working on nuclear airplanes in 1958 at GE. Our budget that year was $100 million. We employed 3,400 people of whom 1100 were engineers and scientists. We're not talking about six professors and 12 grad students here. They're big programs. The stealth aircraft most about $10 billion over 10 years in secret for life. So that's an important part of this, in other words. I know, a few guys can't, it's not a question

for you guys getting together and deciding how, let's see what we can do about this. It takes a major effort. And the taxpayer, you know, we've had a lot of these big programs. Most of them have gone nowhere, some of them have gone everywhere, kind of thing. I mean, I had a project, for example, the pure weapons, the stealth aircraft, the first, our first spy satellite,

the Corona spy satellite. And I have no idea whether the, that name came because the Roswell incident actually happened just outside Corona. Right. But the Corona spy satellite, the first 12 launches, they knew that the U-2 was going to get shot down as it did, because the Russians were getting smarter. They started in the 50s. The first 12 launches were failures.

Those are expensive. In secret, nobody knew about it, so nobody can say, what are you spending on? The 13th one was a success in great. got more data than all the U-2 flights that had preceded about what was going on in Russia. I mean, a satellite, you know, is in constant operation and spent a lot of time going right over the Soviet Union. The whole program was done in secret. And I'd love the way they got their data back. They deorbited the film canisters, which were caught in the air by Air Force flying.

He released them over the Pacific. And, of course, he knew where things were going. and orbits are predictable and so forth. They have a different way of getting data back, isn't it? Yeah, absolutely. Well, you've got a problem. You've got a solution. You don't have a better solution.

We need the information. Let's do it. And when it comes to national defense, cost is not the paramount concern. You know what I mean? How much is it going to cost? Oh, okay. If that's what it costs, that's what we'll spend.

Because it was absolutely essential that we know, whether the Russians were gearing up to attack us. Yeah. There were many people who said they were. And so the fact that we could get actual data, evidence that showed that they weren't building up all over

was very important and probably kept us from having a war, because there were many people who would say, well, if they are, we better get them before they get us. Exactly. Can you imagine what that would have resulted in? You know, I'll drop my bomb, then you drop yours. And, you know, we have

a long history of underestimating the Russians. In 1948, General Leslie Grobes, who headed our nuclear weapons, the Manhattan Project, was asked, how long do you think it'll take before the Russians build the nuclear weapon? Well, he went on for some time that the Russians, you know, they had lost 20 million people during the war. They didn't have the industrial capacity we had. They'd been bombed all that. It'd probably take them at least eight years. Well, said this in August of 48, about 13 months later, the Russians set off their first bomb. We had vastly underestimated them. We did not have, in two ways. We didn't have a radar net. What do we got to worry about? And then we thought they didn't have any big airplanes.

They certainly didn't show any during the war. And then all of a sudden, at one of these big May Day celebrations, I'll call it, here come all these big airplanes. Son of a gun. They looked just like B-29s. What they had done, we had left the B-29 over there, was bringing Len Lee's stuff, and there was something wrong of it, and they couldn't send it back.

And they copied it, Chinese copies, if you know. And they built a whole bunch of these stupid, you know, Eastern Europeans. They don't have Harvard Yale, after all. Well, that was very much. much the attitude, and it cost us, because that gave them a chance to catch up much more than they would. Otherwise, if we'd recognize that they had the capability. Yeah, they'd gone through a war, but that didn't mean they were stupid. There'd been Nobel prizes given to Russian scientists, believe it or not, guys. But I'm sensitive about this because my own, four of my grandparents were Russians. That's understandable. Absolutely. What I'm saying is things move in mysterious ways in this world of our white things get done.

don't get done, who does them, and so forth, can be totally wrong. And, you know, I've talked my uncle had come over in the United States from Germany in 1938, and he had tried to get more of the family to come with him, because he saw the handwriting on the wall, and Hitler was talking about what he was going to do, and Jews were not in good shape over there, but he couldn't get relatives. This is Germany, the land of Gerdin and Beethoven, you know,

they wouldn't do stuff like that. That's crazy. So they wouldn't leave and they got slaughtered in the concentration camps. Because it's hard to believe that other earthlings will behave that badly toward other earthlings, you know? Yeah, until it happens. Yeah, after it happens, oh, yeah. I guess we should have realized that. What I'm saying is we make judgments often based on insufficient information. It's one of the things that characterizes the attitude of the astronomical community

about UFOs. They don't think you can get here from there. They don't think people can keep secrets. They don't think there's any evidence. And so therefore, they're not going to look for any evidence. And it's a constant problem. When I look at astronomical text, where's the reference to the large-scale scientific studies about UFOs? Although dismiss UFOs are right. And my high, my college classmate, Carl Sagan, for three years, and two different books said there are interesting sightings that aren't reliable. There are reliable settings that aren't interesting, but there are no interesting in reliable sightings.

No evidence was provided to substantiate this totally false statement. It's exactly the opposite. The Blue Book Special Report 14 showed the better the quality of the sighting, the reliability, the more likely to be unexplainable. But don't bother me with the facts. My mind's made up.

And that same applies, so you can't get here from there. Now, why would anybody expect an astronomer to know anything about advanced propulsion systems. Think about that. That's not as Balawick. Well, I worked on nuclear airplanes, nuclear rockets,

and I wonder how many people listening are aware that in 1969, three different organizations operated nuclear-efficient rocket reactor propulsion systems on the ground. These weren't little toys. At Westinghouse, we tested the NRX-E-T-Type.

It was less than eight feet in diameter. liquid hydrogen propellant, went in very cold and came out at 4,000 degrees. The power level was 1,000, in our case, 1100 megawatts. Now, Hoover Dam produces 2,000 megawatts. Hoover Dam is enormous. Ours was 1100 megawatts. Eurojet tested one of the 1,000 megawatts. In Los Alamos, the scientific laboratory, tested the big daddy, Phoebus 2B.

nuclear rocket reactor propulsion system, also under 8 feet in diameter, and also with an exhaust temperature of 4,000 degrees. Not much works at 4,000 degrees that we know how to make. I better add. And the power level was 4,000 megawatts, twice over time. Now, these were all successful, and we were so delighted because we listened, and we didn't know whether our system would work well. Nobody had done it before. Yeah, right. And what joy? And they cancel the damn program.

You know, that's weird. Why would you do that? Hey, guys, Ryan here. The Summer in the Sky's podcast is a labor of love every week. And with that comes many different costs to keep the show running. That's where our Patreon campaign comes in. You give what you think the show is worth. There's different rewards available all the time, including shoutouts on the show,

early editions of main episodes, bonus episodes and content, and very soon, monthly patron hangouts, where we sit back and chat all things UFOs. So I hope you'll consider becoming a Patreon subscriber today. To learn more and to join, visit patreon.com slash somewhere skies. Thank you for your support and keep looking up. Okay, so we have this idea of like, you know, the physics and the propulsion behind it, And then you have the people who relate this to the UFO topic. And one of the cases you brought up was Betty and Barney Hill

and the idea of like, how could they get here, this, that, where did the hills go? I would love to know how you got involved with a Betty and Barney Hill case and with working on your books with Kathleen Martin. I read the book, The Interrupted Journey by John Fuller, the Betty and Barney Hill story. And then I had the lucky opportunity going back to Westinghouse, I did media stuff there, and the guys from the same talk show that I had been on that got me moving along, called me and said, we're bringing Betty and Barney Hill to town. We thought you might like to know, and they told me where they were staying, which is very unusual.

That's usually not stuff information you get about. So I called, and I had dinner with them. This is about 65, 1965 or so. and I was listening to see if they'd said anything that expanded upon what was in the book, you know, where they're going to exaggerate. And they weren't. I was very favorably impressed with them. I mean, Betty is a social worker.

Barney's his civil rights, I mean, activists and work for the post office. But I was very impressed. And then I was the first to do work on, I encouraged Marjorie Fish on the Betty and Barney Hill's Star, Betty Hill, StarMap. I got a call from Coral Lorenzen at APRO, a fellow research organization. Marjorie asked her for the names of any

scientist that could maybe she could work with or talk to or so forth. And she called me, and you know, can I give her your name? And so I said, oh, sure, I'd be delighted. And so I was traveling a great deal, and I was near Toledo, Ohio. I stopped by to see Marjorie. Saw some of her StarMap models.

I was the first to publish about her StarMap models, indicating they came from Zeta 1 or Zeta 2, reticuli in the constellation of reticulum, 39 light years away as it happens. So I got involved early on, published a paper in Saga magazine about the StarMap with Bobby Antslaid Taranda. I wasn't writing much myself at that time, worked with other people. Then I encouraged Terry Dickinson, who was editor of astronomy magazine. I've gotten to know him. He came to one of my lectures in Milwaukee,

and he's still around. He's not editing. He's retired, like I'm supposed to be at the end of the year. Oh, yeah. We'll get into that a little later, for sure. Don't think I was going to bring that up. Well, the kicker is that the response to the article in Astronomy magazine, which he did at my suggestion and talked to a lot of people,

I didn't force his hand at all. Got more reaction than anything. they'd ever published before. So they published a number of letters over the next year, and then they put out a 32-page full-color booklet the Zeta Ritikulai incident. They immediately sold

10,000 copies, which is unheard of for this kind of thing. And then the publisher was put under a lot of pressure, and they decided to sell the rest of them. They printed 30,000 copies, I think, and

they made me an offer I couldn't refuse, and I wound up with 16,000 copies in my garage. Sold them all. Wow. I'd sell them. I'd sell them again. Beautiful color, 32-page full-color. There's a little-tickal. But meanwhile, I had seen Betty.

I was working on a movie UFOs are real and visited her with a camera crew. We had done the tomorrow show together, Betty and I, with Tom Snyder. And I have to give him credit for something. some media people are really worthwhile he was one of them uh... burriff griffin was another but with tom he brought Betty out first then he brought me

out i was in the green room and there was no audience and we were taking segments and i said you know i told him i said the public won't know that betty's a social worker is a very respectable individual she's not the woman is scrubbing the floor And so the first question

When we came back on is he asked Betty about her background So I give him credit for that Not everybody would do that Right And then something else At the end of the show He stood up He had been sitting down all the time

Son of a gun He's about 6 foot 7 And Betty is 5 feet And I'm 5 9 and a half on a good day What I'm saying is He could be a very intimidating presence if he chose to use that, but he didn't. And I give him a lot of credit for listening to my suggestion in the first place

and for not intimidating. So it was a good discussion, a good program. I really enjoyed doing it. And with Merv, he was a pleasure. He asked such sensible questions. And I did a show twice, actually. But after the first show, we had a live audience. I asked him, I said, gee, that was fun.

I really enjoyed that, because he was sharp. And he said to me, there's just the two of standing there, he said, I try to keep the show a level of after-dinner conversation. You're having friends over for dinner, and what kind of questions would they ask? And he did a great job of that. Mervis and a scientist, but, boy, he was a very bright guy. You know, I really appreciated the fact that he had done some work. He asked sensible questions.

He was cordial. He represented the audience in a very clever kind of way. So some of these guys really serve a useful purpose. Not everybody. So I've been to Betty's house. It had been several times. And that's how Kathy got to know me. And she once told me that,

they said, if you ever need any help, there's one guy you can trust, and that's Stan Friedman. So we did three books. and they're all listed at my website and said on 8.W. dot Stanton Friedman.com. And the ones by the three of us are autographed by both of us. We use book plates.

So everything I send out gets is autographed. Look, I know I put myself in the people's place. They're buying a book. We have discount prices, but still, don't they deserve an autograph? And just so they know it's coming from me, not from some bookstore. I got nothing against bookstores. They sell my book. Well, that's a good point, though.

It's that extra personal touch. Yeah. And I can say I'm on the internet. www. Stantonfriedman.com. I just spell Friedman right, though. F-R-I-D-M-A-N. Well, Stan, one of the other ones cases I wanted to get in with you,

which you know more than anyone else on this one, What I always find fascinating is how you basically helped break this story of Roswell. When you met with Jesse Marcel, I would love if you could tell us that story before we move on here to some listening. I was doing a television interview in Baton Rouge, Louisiana, Louisiana State University. It was at the local television station. I was supposed to do three interviews. And the guy was very helpful and nice. And he said, you know, the guy you really ought to talk to was Jesse Marcel.

I said, oh, who's he? I'd never heard of him. His next sentence changed my life. He handled wreckage of one of those saucers you're interested in when he was in the military. What? And he wasn't joking. There was nobody around. He wasn't trying to impress anybody.

He was telling me the fact. Wasn't what do you know about him? He lives in H-O-U-M-A. I didn't know where H-O-M-A was in Louisiana, but he's a great guy ought to talk to him. So the next day, I was at the airport, early and I called information. Some listeners may not be aware. That's what you used to do when you wanted a phone number,

and you didn't go to a computer because you didn't have one to go to. Call the operator in Homa, and there was a listing for a Jesse A. Marcel, and I called him. Told him I was a nuclear physicist. I had a clearance for 14 years and so forth. Try to impress him that, you know, I'd been around a bit. And so he told me a story. People said, why did they talk to you?

Well, I wasn't threatening to him. I impressed him with being nuclear. Remember, he was the intelligence officer of the only atomic bombing group in the entire world, which was based at Roswell. The noisy negative is forget to tell you that, usually. Yeah, a bunch of dinged GIs. But, yeah, they happen to be the guys who dropped the bonds on Alamogordo,

they set off the bomb, and then the Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and two more in Operation Crossroads and so forth. I was the only group in the world like that at that. time. And so I was very impressed with Jesse as a phone conversation. I got other names of people I can talk to. In the next

I shared that with Bill Moore and in the next year or so we talked to 60 people connected with the event. And yeah, I got lucky when I called the, I had a look in editor and publishers. Is there a newspaper in Roswell? What do I know about about? I'll be there in July.

But, yeah, the Roswell Daily record. So I called the record to find out something about the town. And the fact that it was the 509th that was there, the only atomic bombing group in the world. And I called the newspaper and I had, I found an article. We found a date. We found some articles in newspapers. So I called the newspaper and I said, I've got an article here that says, got a guy named Walter Hout or Hot. was a public information officer for the base, and before I could finish the sentence, oh, his wife works here.

What? So I talked to his wife, and then I talked to Walter, and then he was a huge help, because not only was he a public information officer, which he was for the base, but he was a World War II bombardier, more than 20 missions over Japan.

This wasn't a dink again, and remember he, he actually dropped the instrument package over when I was Adam bomb test. Yeah, yeah. And he used your best guys to do that, because if you don't get it in the right place at the right time, you've wasted a bomb, and at that time, we didn't have bombs to waste.

So Walter was more than a public information officer, and he knew many of the people helped me find other people, and the big thing is he had a base yearbook, which he made a copy of for me, and I'd call him and say, hey, you know where any of these guys are? Well, I remember Joe and last I heard he was in Oshkosh, or, you know, it was a big help. One thing I learned, and this is a lesson for investigators, which I didn't know when I started,

you talked to somebody. Yeah, I was there at the base at that time. They'll remember Colonel Blanchard, and many of them remember Jesse Marcell because he was the intelligence officer. You remember anybody else who was there? Oh, come on, now, it was 40 years ago, you know. No, I don't. And then you talk, keep them in that time frame for another five minutes. And then, say, hey, did you talk to Joe Smith?

He was there. I remember him. And then come up with three or four names. He wasn't lying to me when he said he didn't remember. And he didn't. He had to think about it. You know, how many of us can, you know, rattle off? I can tell you who I went to high school with, but not the other people.

So it became an immense amount of labor. And I certainly was convinced that we're dealing with a true story. and there have been people who make up all kinds of phony baloney stories. Jesse was very impressive. Look, you don't get to be the intelligence officer for the only atomic bombing group in the entire world by being an idiot. And of course, his son, who was deceased also, was a medical doctor and served in intelligence work, and I still can't believe. Jesse Jr. was called back in at age 68 in the reserve.

he had been, and his flying combat missions in Iraq, in the Middle East. Yeah. After each 68, 130 flying hours over there. We were that desperate. Right. And I think they were trying to get him shot down so he'd shut up. Yeah. Wouldn't be the most crazy way they've tried to have a cover up for sure.

That's right. So, yeah, Roswell has been my, and I'm a member, I was elected, into the Roswell UFO Hall of Fame. You'll see you at the museum. And for people who wonder, just to prove that there's interest, last year, the International UFO Museum and Research Center

in Roswell, Mexico, had over 205,000 visitors. And it's in the middle of nowhere, believe me. Oh, yeah, I've been there. And my God, that was one of the lengthiest drives through a desert I've ever experienced.

Yeah, I've believe it because, look, it's 200 miles from Albuquerque. Yeah. It's 200 miles from Amarillo. It's 200 miles from El Paso. Look, I grew up in New Jersey. There isn't anything in New Jersey that's 200 miles more. That's a good point, yeah.

Well, it makes for a perfect place for something to crash or be tested. That's for damn sure. Well, I'll tell you. People say, well, why, and I had an astronomer, England, say to me, why would an alien go to Roswell to New Mexico, all there is there is sand. I said, you've been there? Well, no.

I said, well, I have. I take it you're not aware that two of our three nuclear weapons labs are in New Mexico. And that white sands missile ranges were firing all our missiles. And they're both there because there aren't many people there. You don't fire missiles with a lot of people around, for good to say. You make a mistake. The Curtland Air Force Base is there. It's a natural place to play.

put military installations. Alamagordo Army Airfield and stuff like that. So, Roswell was there for that reason. And, you know, crazy politics. The base was shut down by Lyndon Johnson because New Mexico didn't vote for him

in the election when he won the presidents. Oh, wow, that's a vendetta. Well, Lyndon was known to have strong feelings like that. Yeah. That's very true. You know, how fair was it to the town? Many of the people worked at the base was a big base. Yeah.

They had a 13,000-foot runway, and typically runways are 8,000 or 9,000 feet. And that was because they had big B-36 bombers carrying nuclear weapons, and they needed six feet of concrete for a runway. How's that? If you go out there now, you go out to where the base was, which is south of town, and you'll see airplanes being cut up. It's a burial ground, if you will. except they don't bury them.

They cut them up and sell the parts. Okay. And I don't know of any other place where he can do this. Yeah, really? For all kinds of airports, big ones, small ones, et cetera, et cetera. So it's been a fascinating story for me. And I will be there again at probably the last time on the anniversary. They have a festival.

That's the word. That sounds strange. But in July, around the time of the crash anniversary. And I think last year, I don't know, 9,000 people there for the weekend, something like that. That's incredible. And people don't realize, like, how much revenue that brings into that small town every year. They earned it, you know. Yeah, well, absolutely.

Cancel the base, which the German Air Force used to fly out of there. It's a great place for flying. It's at 3,500 feet, no mountains close by. You know, why would you close the facility? Because they didn't vote for him, of course. and where did they move it to Texas that sounds appropriate yeah the other thing that kind of connects here to Roswell

not kind of the thing this is a big part of the Roswell case as well is another thing that you you worked with and investigated and I'd really love to hear your thoughts on where you stand on this now it's the MJ12 documents now we've had so many people argue this for so many years but you wrote one of the most definitive books on these documents. So I'd love to hear, you know, now in 2018, what is your stance on these documents? How much is real? How much is baloney? Where do you stand on that? Most of the MJ12 documents are phony. Okay. That's true. Most isotopes aren't fissionable either.

You know, like it or not, most people can't run a mile in four minutes. Nobody can. So there are at least three documents that I believe are genuine. The Eisenhower briefing document, the Cutler Twining memo. And there's another one which doesn't come to mind at the moment. And as proof tells you something about research in the field, full of class was Mr. Noisy Negativist himself, and AB bionics editor for aviation weak in space technology. No, flying saucers are really in Spicecraft.

Nonsense. And he challenged me on those documents, the Cutler Twining memo in particular. Obviously, the memos are fraud because it's done in the large pica type, but I've got nine documents here done from the National Security Council, which name is at the top, and they're all done in elite type. So I challenge you to find any other genuine documents found in the same size and style type, and I'll give you $100 each up to a maximum of $10.

He did this rather publicly, and you have 60 days. Well, okay, I immediately went to my files, and unlike, it turned out, I didn't know this at the time it turned out until it had never been to the Eisenhower alarm. or the Truman Library, and I spent weeks at them. And I immediately went to my files, and I had the 20 pages done in the same size and style type. They didn't meet all this criteria, but in time frame, et cetera. So I was going to the Eisenhower Library, and might as well check. When I went there, it's easy to spot the difference because one type is much bigger than the other one typeface.

And so I made copies of 14 documents, no doubt about they're being genuine. And I found them up the Eisenhower Library and made copies of all of them, sent him the copies and an invoice for $1,000. He would only pay me for $10. And he paid me, and then he got maddened hell when I included a copy of his check in my book. The audience loves it. Yeah, yeah. But, you know, it's typical of the intellectual bankruptcy of the pseudoscience of anti-Uphology. Don't bother me with the facts.

My mind's made up. And it's such a splendid example that he had never been to the library. And it turns out they have like 250,000 pages of NSC documents. And you're telling me they're all typed on the same typewriter. I hope people recall. We used to use typewriters before computers were around. Well, the MJ12 documents, in other words, I'm convinced I did rather extensive work on the 12 members of the group.

And I'm especially proud of my discovery, to my total surprise, I will admit, that one of the members was Dr. Donald Howard Menzel, and he was a debunker. He written three anti-UFOs books. How could he be a member of a group that knew about crash saucers, alien potties, all that sort of stuff?

Well, I saw a mention of his name in a knock document in the Ben of Bush files. He was the chief science advisor in the United States in this time frame. outstanding individual. And so I followed up on that and had to get permission with three different people

to look at his papers at Harvard. The Center for UFO's study. No, UFO, whatever the name of the group was at that time. I got a research grant and I went to the Harvard Archives after getting permission for three different people to see his papers.

Written permission. Pain in the neck. But anyway, I didn't know what I was looking for. Let's see what we find. And there was a JFK file. Oh, that should be interesting. I know his UFO papers were elsewhere, and I've been there too. Kathy and I've gone to the archives, the American Philosophical Society Library has his papers and also have classes, papers, and so forth. Anyway, and one of the first things I opened up in the JFK files, there's a letter from Menzel to Kennedy. Dear Jack, it turns out they knew each other quite well, even had breakfast together on occasion, both living in the Cambridge area.

And there's one area, this is after the election of 1960, when Kennedy was elected president. There's one area where I may be of assistance to you. It's with regard to the National Security Agency. I've had a longer continuous association with them 30 years of anybody. When we are properly cleared to each other, this is telling the president. When we are properly clear to each other, I can tell you more about this. So he did a lot. It turns out he was a world-class cryptologist.

Nobody knew that. he did all kinds of classified work. And I was the first to take note of that. And so suddenly it made sense that he was part of this group. But it was such a shock. And there were people, oh, he couldn't lead a double life. I wrote a paper, the double life of Donald Menzel. There are loads of people who led double life.

Think of Burgess Filby and Maclean, Russian spies, who worked for British intelligence for like 15 years, you know. Yeah. And you've got to be very careful when you're a spy. that you don't reveal, you know, you're having access to information you shouldn't have access. But once I found Menzel and then saw the connection with the other people, I was able to show that it made absolute sense on the post three documents and clasping me a thousand dollars that didn't hurt any in terms of the overall picture.

And so I think I've dealt with all the arguments, but the people say the documents are fraudulent. Yes, I've showed that a number of documents are fraudulent. So what? I'm not denying that. It'd be natural if some good stuff gets out. You flood the market with crap, and I hope it rubs off. Yeah. Well, and we all know, these sort of campaigns have been used for years in terms of disinformation

of putting some truths amongst the lies, and that's the only way they can sort of get it out. It's extremely frustrating to have to wait through that, but there are people who will do that due diligence to do that, people like yourself. Many other researchers who aren't out there, you know, speaking or, you know, on television. They're doing the hard work underground and finding the truth to those things. Well, I have to have evidence in hand before putting my mouth in tears, my feeling. As a scientist, I have that requirement on me. Show it.

Don't just tell it. And so, frankly, I've been disappointed. that so few people have visited all the archives. I've been to 20 archives, some of them many times. And it's the documents that make the difference. Absolutely, absolutely. Well, I mean, Stan, now you mentioned this a little bit earlier. You made an announcement about what, maybe a month ago now,

of your retirement from the field. And, I mean, people were, you know, mixed reactions all around, but everyone was like, oh, my God, it's finally happening. Are you kidding me? Like, no. Am I not entitled? Yeah, I know, really. It's funny how that story came out.

I had been interviewed by, I know the reporters at the local paper here, the Frederick and Daley Gleaner, and I had called one, and I wanted to promote the fact that I was, and he called it was an interesting story that I was going to undertake the debate of the century with Dr. Michael Shermer of the Skeptic Society. We're supposed to have a big on-state. live debate in Vancouver, British Columbia on April the 8th, in an auditorium seating maybe a thousand people from which they were charging a good frighten. And they were given us good fees for the two of us. And so I talked to this report that I've known. He said on other articles about me. And he wrote a nice article. And then I got told the debate had been canceled. No good reason. There wasn't enough interest or something like that. And so I contacted the reporter and so he said well is there anything else any way i can salvage this i got

anything else that's talking you're talking about or you know any events going on what can we do i said well yeah i'm seriously thinking of retiring it before the end of the year oh well okay so we talked about that for a while and so that became the focus for the article only because the debated Ben Chit's old. We needed some other shocker in there, I guess, right?

Yeah, a hook, if you will. And look, I'm going to be 84 in July. Now, I'm still young for my age. It says here

in small pretty. But it's time. Like I said, I read that first book 60 years ago. Yeah. That's a long time.

And, you know, it's getting harder to get around and my mind isn't as sharp as it used to be. Don't tell me by that. It's true, though. I mean, you sound as sharp as a tech, but I understand that. I understand you, in terms of entitlement, yeah, I would say so at this point.

I mean, you've broke some of the biggest stories in euphology. You've put in the work, and as a younger researcher, I mean, it's paramount to not, to understand that there was an age without the Internet. God forbid, where we can just Google something now, and it's right there in front of us. The fact that you went to these archives, you went out and you spoke to individuals face-to-face, that's a rarity for the younger generation these days. So in terms of earning that, I would say so. I guess my real question would be, Stan, with this news of your retirement,

I'd love to know what some of your most favorite or most memorable moments were throughout this entire, God, 50 plus years of research. I mean, was it a lecture you gave? Was it a debate? Was it a witness who spoke to? I know it's probably a very broad question. There's a mix of things. When it comes to lectures, I'll never forget in Hawaii supposed to speak. And we lived near San Francisco and took my wife. What the hell? What's called? I got five days and only have to be there for an afternoon lecture and stuff. And I called them when we got there. said, you know, you need me to do any radio or television programs, you know, I'm available, I'm here. No, no, just show up. It was an afternoon talk.

Here we are in a hall seating over 900 people, and there were 20, like, 26 people at my lecture. That was, I mean, I gave a good lecture. You know, it's not their fault. But that was an embarrassing moment. On the other hand, I had an audience of more than 2,000, and had a great audience. Saudi Arabia was interesting.

Oh, yeah, what was that one? Something like a world competitiveness forum or something like that. And I'd never heard of the people who called me, and I did some checking around. Is this thing real? And then as time went on, and people said, man, you're going to Saudi Arabia? Are you crazy?

You've forgotten you're Jewish? They won't even let you in. So I called the person that I was in contact with. It was a woman, incidentally, which tells you something. Some people think women don't get a chance to hold any positions, what they do. And I explained to her, I said, look, people are saying, you're going to get there and I'm going to say, you can't come in here. And she said, look, we've had many Jewish speakers at these things, no problem at all.

And so I went, and there wasn't any problem at all. It was like I was at a meeting of my father's cousins club. People forget, Jews and Arabs are both Semites. So that was an interesting experience. I enjoyed that. I enjoyed the visits to places I never would have gotten. Otherwise, I've spoken in Hong Kong. I've spoken in dairy and China, in South Korea, in Australia, Argentina, places like that.

Got into Israel, Germany, France, England, Ireland, Scotland, Finland. So, seeing the world, Hungary, my last foreign talk was pulled. Siberia, who would ever, how would I ever get to work? Yeah. I spoke in Poland and Warsaw. We had the Warsaw UFO Society had a big crowd for me. Geographically, how people respond to your talks or the theories you're bringing forward. Does it vary from region to region at all, you know, due to like cultural influences?

Yeah. I mean, sometimes when talks have been translated, like I didn't speak in Polish, you know. But I seem, remember, I'm talking about evidence. not beliefs. So when I can show, Sholeon Blue Book Special Report 14, shows the numbers, and numbers tell a story after all. Back up what I say, it doesn't seem to matter. Because the universal responses, I didn't know about that. I never saw that report. You know, that's standard.

So it's very hard for people to reject what you're saying when they have to admit, no, I wasn't aware of that. And when you show it to them. And so I found it's a way to see the world, be a euphologist. Who would I ever thought? Not me. My classmates at the University of Chicago would certainly have. What are you doing, Stan? I'm listening about flying sausage.

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So I'm no, you know, I'm no young chicken, but I'm also... sort of in that midway point in my research here, what advice would you give to people younger, even younger than I am, in terms of the future of both the UFO field? And I guess humanity in general, what advice would you give them the hope, you know, that this is a topic worth pursuing? Well, I think the biggest thing is to make people aware that our understanding of where we fit in the scheme of things has changed drastically. Frank Craig was talking about maybe 6,000 planets that could send signals. That number today might be six billion.

The fact that there is so many planets is a total surprise to the astronomical community. And the fact that we have the technology, when the British Astronomer Royal in 1956 was asked about space travel by Time magazine, it's utter bilge. What good would it do? Who would pay for it? Well, we need his better equipment for astronomy, though. It was a year before Sputnik and the field that's benefited the most, of course, has been in astronomy.

So our attitude about how old the universe is, how big the universe is, how many planets there are. You know, Bishop Usher in 1650 or so was saying that the world was created in 4,04 BC. I don't think he said on Thursday afternoon, but he went back through the Bible about begatting. Now he say, well, they left six zeros out of that. It's four billion years ago.

The Earth was created four and a half billion. was a half billion between friends. And so these concepts, in 1920s, the sun produces its energy by burning gas. What do we know about fusion? But fusion is what produces the energy throughout the universe, all the stars. But there's an enormous difference. And so suddenly what seemed impossible is now possible, space travel. And it was just like a great astronomer in 1902, 1903, October.

October, that if there was one thing he was sure, man would never fly any distance in a vehicle, maybe with a balloon, but that was two months before the right purpose of first flight. We assume what we don't know doesn't exist. There ain't nothing we don't know. We're smart guys, you know, with the cream of the cream. And throughout history, that's been shown to be wrong. Jet engines, for example, were left out of town. Base travel was thought to be absurd.

And I've seen numbers, you know, how heavy Iraq would have happened. to be to get a man to the moon, a million, million tons would have to be. But if you make enough stupid assumptions, you can prove anything is impossible. Well, assume a single-stage vehicle with a very low exhaust velocity. Pretty soon you've got a huge rocket. That's not how we do things. Engineers' job is to get it done, not to show you all the ways in which it can't be done. That's not in much use. And so people often aren't aware of their biases and prejudices getting in the way of their evaluation. Thank goodness there are people who say the heck with that.

I mean, Billy Mitchell remember was court-martial. He said man would be sinking ships from airplanes. That was in the 20s. In 1941, late November, there was an article in the program for the Army-Navy football game and showed a picture of the USS Arizona's huge battleship. And in the text, it said, nobody's ever sunk. big ship from the sky. That was eight days before Pearl Harbor,

and there went the USS Arizona, killing, I forget, 1,100 people, something like that. Yeah. I don't know how to do it, therefore it can't be done, right? No, wrong. Yeah. There's a word of caution whenever you find the noisy negatists, because it usually means fine, socials can't be real,

because if they were I don't know about it seems to be the attitude. Right. But when I, I'm sneaky. I check my audiences. When I talk about this large-scale studies, I ask how many people who read them. And I think it sober's the audience to realize, I'm not the only one who hasn't read that stuff. No, they're going to, just about it. Yeah.

Maybe I better listen to this guy. And I show them the documents and the reports or whatever, so they know I'm not just making it up out of my head. And so we need to be very careful about presuming we know what the future is. And if you look around, look at radio. There were people who were saying they would never communicate any wrong with radio. What are you kidding? And that goes back to, say, 1900. And look at where we've come from with that.

And every direction you look, you find a progress comes from doing things differently in an unpredictable way. The future is not an extrapolation of the past. You have to change how you do things. And if we forget that, we step into the potholes of it's impossible. Yeah. What we really mean is, I don't know how to do that, but maybe somebody else does, you know, like aliens. And the kicker is, again, if there's been intelligent life in the neighborhood for a billion years, why would it be surprising that they're doing things that we can't do?

And that business of how many places there are, we assume because Earth is 4.3 light years from the next star over after the sun, that everybody is stuck with loads of stars that have other stars. less than a light year away. My favorite stars in the hill case, Zeta 1, Zeta 2, or 2. They're an eighth of a light year apart, for goodness sake. You know, we're only 39 light years from here. That's just an entirely different perspective.

We've got people saying, anybody coming here would have to come from 1,000 light years. Absurd. Give me 5, 10, and 20. Exactly. Wow. Well, Stan, I mean, I'm going to be seeing you in Halifax, Nova Scotia, this upcoming May I'll be speaking at the esotericon where you're going to be the keynote speaker at that event as well.

So I guess, you know, for any of our listeners who live in that area, I hope they'll come out and see you give this talk. It's free, too, I'm told. Yes. How rare is that? It's, yeah, it's being put on by your nephew, Paul Kimball, who does so much amazing work in Halifax, you know, with local government and was able to obtain all these speakers to put on a conference for free for the public, which I think is an incredible feat. It's Swan Song, how's that? Absolutely, one that I'm so honored to be a part of and one I hope everyone will come to.

Well, that being said, Stan, one more time, where can we find all of your work, your books? Give that to us. Okay, they're all listed on my website. www.stantenfidman.com. You got to spell Friedman, F-R-I-E-D-M-A-N. And it lists my books and other sources like Blue Books Special Report 14. I don't believe it's proper for me to talk about something.

and say, well, I don't know where you can get that. That's why I've sold a lot of copies as a Special Report 14. And so if you want an education, incidentally, in one of my books, top secret magic about the MJ12 documents, I list a dozen PhD thesis that were done more than 10 years ago, so there's more now. So there is information out there, and I have loads of references.

I just finished looking at an old book. First contacts the search for extraterrestrial intelligence, which was done more than 20 years ago. And there's nothing sensible about flying saucers in it. No references to the big, large-scale scientific studies or any of the technology stuff or whatever. Why don't they put pictures of nuclear rocket engines, for goodness sake? They're available.

So my website has the information. So, you know, I believe in interacting and communicating. I've been doing this for a long time. If I didn't enjoy what I was doing, I wouldn't be doing it. You know, after the first 500 lectures, you'd say, the hell of it. Yep. I'm over 700 down. Yeah.

Where we go. Well, it's extremely invigorating, you know, as someone who has a couple times been like, I want out of this. It's invigorating to see that it's worth the study. It's worth the research to keep doing it, to keep looking for those answers. No matter what it is, like you said, the future is unpredictable. and I think that's extremely exciting. So I can't wait to see where it goes. And I know this isn't the last we've heard from me, Stan.

It might be your retirement from research, but it certainly isn't your retirement from the field overall. So I have to thank you so much for coming on somewhere in the skies today. It was an immense pleasure in honor. And I will see you in May. I will see you there. And there won't be any snow. I hope there won't be any snow on the grass.

I hope at that point. Somewhere in the skies is produced. Produced by Third Kind Productions in association with the Entertainment One Podcast Network.