Somewhere in the Skies - Spooked in Nova Scotia: A Paranormal Roundtable

Episode Date: August 28, 2017

On episode 20 of SOMEWHERE IN THE SKIES, we take a slight detour from our normal ufological path to bring you a very special roundtable discussion that occurred during the East Coast Paranormal Conference in Liverpool, Nova Scotia on August 11th-13th. Keynote speakers at this conference included Micah Hanks, Greg Bishop, Paul Kimball, and Ryan Sprague. In this roundtable discussion, the four speakers debrief on the weekend's events, what they each personally presented in their lectures, and their strange experiences while taking part in a paranormal investigation at the historically haunted Queens County Museum.  The four also speak about the many connections that can be made between UFO studies and other paranormal, supernatural, and esoteric topics. It was a weekend for the ages, and an experience all four won't soon forget. Special thanks go out to our gracious host, Paul Kimball, and to the conference organizer, Linda Refuse and the Crossed Over Paranormal Society for having us.  Guest Bios: Micah Hanks: Micah Hanks is a writer, podcaster, and researcher whose interests cover a variety of subjects. His areas of focus include history, science, philosophy, current events, cultural studies, technology, unexplained phenomena, and ways the future of humankind may be influenced by science and innovation in the coming decades. He also the host of the hit podcasts, The Grailen Report and Middle Theory. Learn more at www.gralienreport.com. Greg Bishop: In 1991, Greg Bishop co-founded a magazine called The Excluded Middle, which was a journal of UFOs, the paranormal, conspiracy, psychedelia and new science. His first book, Wake Up Down There! anthologized many of the articles and features.  Greg’s second book was Project Beta, which documented a government campaign of disinfo perpetrated against an unsuspecting researcher. His show Radio Misterioso, now in its 17th year, features interviews with fringe-topic researchers and occasionally, weird music. He also flies paragliders and is a licensed private pilot, as well as an aerial drone photographer. Learn more at www.radiomisterioso.com. Paul Kimball: An award-winning filmmaker, Paul has written, directed, and produced a wide variety of programming for television, including the television series Ghost Cases, and the documentaries Best Evidence: Top 10 UFO Sightings, Fields of Fear, and Stanton T. Friedman is Real. He has written and directed three feature films, most recently the multi-award-winning thriller Exit Thread. His first book, The Other Side of Truth, about his investigations into the world of the paranormal, was published in 2012. In 2017 Paul returns to the subject of the paranormal to write, direct and co-host the new Canadian television series Haunted. Learn more at www.winterlightproductions.com Website: www.somewhereintheskies.com Email: [e-mail] Twitter: @SomewhereSkies Order Ryan's Book by CLICKING HERE Opening Theme Song, "Ephemeral Reign" by Per Kiilstofte Episode Edited by Jane Palomera Moore SOMEWHERE IN THE SKIES is produced by THIRD KIND PRODUCTIONS, in association with Antica Productions. Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/somewhere-in-the-skies. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Warning, if you like your UFO literature to confirm what you already know, this is not the book for you. From White Crow Books comes a brand new collection of essays. 14 authors. One goal. To shatter the UFO topic and pick up the pieces in a whole new light. Compiled and edited by Robbie Graham with a foreword by Professor Diana Walsh Pesilka. UFOs Reframing the Debate is a cold, hard slap in the face for uphology, delivered with love. UFOs reframing the debate.

Available now in paperback and e-book on Amazon and at Barnes & Noble, the book depository, and the iBookstore. For a complete list of contributors and to learn more, visit Robbiegram.uk. This is Somewhere in the Skies with Ryan Sprague. Welcome to Somewhere in the Skies. I'm your host, Ryan Sprague. I recently made a trip to Liverpool, Nova Scotia,

to speak at the East Coast Paranormal Conference, hosted by the Queens County Museum and the crossed over paranormal society. I'd never been this far into Canada in my life, so it was both refreshing and exciting. The conference brought together attendees and speakers in every realm of the paranormal, UFO field, and everything in between. Personally, I was speaking on mysterious triangles throughout the world, starting with the Bermuda Triangle and working my way across oceans and continents to find connections between all of them.

The audience seemed to really dig the talk, and I had some amazing conversations with people both right after and throughout the entire conference. But one of the coolest conversations took place the evening after the conference when several of the speakers and I got together, had some beers and debriefed on the weekend's events and some extremely compelling experiences we had during an on-site paranormal investigation at the historically haunted Queens County Museum. In the following roundtable discussion, you'll hear from the other speakers, which included Micah Hanks, Paul Kimball, and Greg Bishop. This discussion was originally broadcast live on Greg Bishop's acclaimed show, Radio Mysterioso. But he gave me permission to share it with all of you right here on somewhere in the skies. It was a wide-ranging talk that finds us walking through each of our presentations,

how they were received, and our thoughts on the paranormal in all the baggage that comes with such topics. Now, I must warn you, this episode is very little about you. UFOs, but I could not let this opportunity pass by with such influential researchers from across the country in one room together. So, I hope you enjoy this Paracan roundtable discussion with Micah, Greg, Paul, and myself. Here it is. And I'm sitting here now with Ryan R. Sprague. Hello. Yeah. Hakeem Hunk, otherwise known as Dr. Hanks. Good evening. And Paul Kimball, our host and gracious host and all-round fixer for this weekend. Ace Ghost Hunter.

And Ace Ghost Hunter, which I guess you didn't want to talk to his friends on the street about. No, it's like, I was just going, please they're into ghosts. Please don't tell them I do a ghost show. Please don't tell them I do a ghost show. So we all arrived here last week. I was here on Wednesday. Micah and Ryan were here on Thursday, and we headed up to Liverpool. Friday was the first day.

although we did visit where was it Mahon Bay and Ludenberg Oak Island The Oak Island Oh on Oak Island That is pretty cool We actually got to drive across

This little causeway that goes to Oak Island That I guess was built After the island Was discovered or something Is that a later edition? You don't know It's about It's been around for a while

Yeah it's probably what 7500 yards long 50 maybe 50 really? Maybe 50 to 75 Oh okay Full of potholes Yes, and pot holes.

You figure with all the money that was coming in from that stupid TV show, they could fix the potholes, but no. It was kind of amazing because that, this has a latency, just like Mikeo's warning me about it. Because that facility, Oak Island, is normally closed to the public. There was an interpretive center. It said that was open. So we drove across, went to the interpretive center,

and took a picture in front of a little monument there, and did our touristy thing, which was great. And then off to the conference. And that evening we had, I'm not going to go through a litany of what happened at the conference, but... Oh, why not? Littin eyes. Please turn to page to the chapter of Paracan and the book of litany. There we are.

Okay, we're on that page now. Okay. Shall we read? Let's see. There was a speaker introduction. Paul Kimball did a talk on the Haunted series, which is coming up on in October, is it? Mm-hmm.

Yeah. On East Link Network in Canada, which means most of you people listening won't be able to see it. Not immediately, but eventually it'll wind its way to you. Will you be posting pieces like on Vimeo or YouTube or something like that? Not full episodes because the network prohibits that. I already have some clips of not. little teaser clips and as time goes on

I'll post more interesting clips up to. Right. But the series we did years ago, Ghost Cases, which the new one's infinitely better, Ghost Cases is available now. In fact, I think I get you to buy it on Amazon Prime, right, or something? Yes, I did.

Because I couldn't up here in Canada and then you couldn't send it to me. I don't actually have copies of my old series. I haven't seen your ocean. I broke up with my, and he kept everything. So I don't have... So I said, Greg, can you just like download them and send them to me?

There's a couple I haven't seen in nine years. But it's available for free online now, too. There's some sites. So eventually haunted will wind up in that place too. All right. And let's see. And then the next day, Ryan did his talk on triangles around the road. Triangles.

We just stayed at the triangle. Yeah, that was pretty synchronistic as about the old triangle here in Halifax. And we met fans of yours. Fans of ours. That was pretty interesting. They were. They're so famous. they saw fans at a completely

unplanned location. You got to love when that happens. Hello, Sabrina, if you're out there listening. It was really nice to make your acquaintance. It goes to show how small the world actually is. Yeah, yeah. We were eating outside, and these people walk away. Look, it's my Godhurt.

And he said, look, it's Paul Kimbo. Well, he had his back to the street. I think they knew you and Ryan from, you said, like, from social media or something. Yep. And listeners are our mutual podcast. Oh, right, right. And as people know, I'm never on social media, so how could they know me? That's true.

Exactly. But the undis, I mean, just absolutely most distinct earlobes of probably in all creation belonged to Paul Kimball. And so she was quite enamored with him, as you sat with your back to her. She did mention that a couple times. She was sweet. It was real, really, really nice. Sweet lobes, dude.

Sweet lobes, yeah. Yeah, I gave the talk on triangles throughout the world. We always think of the Bermuda Triangle being. the only mysterious place, but I was able to find, what was it, five others throughout the world. I know there's many others as well. I think the only two I knew were Bridgewater and Devil's Triangle, but you found like a few others. Yeah, one of the more interesting ones, I mean, Bridgewater just astounds me. It's fascinating.

Why? Just the amount of different things happening there, from UFO sightings to cryptids to ancient, you know, Native American curses, everything. Everything you could think of going on there. Statanic... Yeah. Yeah. And Bridgewater's right in the middle of the triangle. Roeobith, Freetown, and some other town, Abington, I believe.

Yeah. Okay. And yeah, just a lot of different activity. And they had a lot of cases of satanic, like, sacrifices back in the day as well. Serial killers. It's just, it's insane, the amount of history to that place. Yeah. I should stop doing this because you can hear the...

Yeah, yeah. I'm going to stop the clicking. Stop it with the clicking Don't No more clicking Clicking That's clicking Release the clicking

Release the clicking Release the clicking But yeah I think the talk went over well People seem to dig it You know Triang Bermuda Triangle Something we think of in the past a lot

But these events are still happening So you know There is the tragedy this past May In the Bermuda Triangle With a pilot And a business woman in New York For two small children still missing to this day.

This search has been called off. But yeah, just goes to show that no matter how much we look into these things, they continue, they perpetuate, and the mystery remains. Do you think there's something to the triangle idea, or is it just, especially the Burmina Triangle, it's kind of like, it's a big area of ocean, a lot of people go through there. Right. The Bermuda Triangle is one of the most well-traveled areas, you know, in the Atlantic.

So thousands and thousands of planes go over and ships every day, nothing happens. So, you know, I, I dug a little deep in, or not deep, I dug a little into it at the end of my talk that we do shape these mysteries. We find ways to make an area a triangle rather than it actually being a triangle. And every little town wants to have its own version, I think, of these things, you know. So I found that really interesting to do. It's almost a sociological thing as well. Like, let's put in some sort of importance to this area. Well, what do we have? The Bermuda triangle was the first. first. Let's build off of that. Oh, we have weird stuff going on here. Oh, there was a plane crash. It's a triangle now. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I found that fascinating as well. I do believe we shape, uh, excuse me, I believe the mystery shapes us more than we shape it. And then you found one also in France. Yep. The Berlée triangle in France, uh, spoke to a gentleman there who lived smack dab in the middle of it. And when he was a kid, his grandparents used to, when they would be traveling to Paris on vacation, would tell him about all these horrible accidents that happened in the

triangle while they were traveling. Oh, we will scare you now. That's a way to scare the children. Yeah. Really interesting one. We do it into triangle unless you behave. Yeah, that one, that one was interesting. It's the most plane crashes to ever happen in a condensed area in France. They hold the record. A lot of UFO activity. A lot of the plane crashes there, there were UFO reports around there. Yeah. Even back before the UFO, modern UFO period. Yes. Yep. Yep. So that one was very interesting. A lot of people believe there's a lot of electromagnetism that occurs in that area as well. There are a lot of uranium mines. There were volcanoes. There were megaliths found as well. So you do have to wonder. Yeah. It could be a window area. And the last one, which actually at that, I, at that,

heard of, but I had never heard of the one in England. Yeah. The one with the strange British name. Yeah, Wold Newton. The Wold Newton. The Wold Newton Triangle. The Wold Newton Triangle. And you spoke to a researcher there, who you had on video talking about Old Steenker. Yeah, old Steen. He was a little, his accent

was really thick. I didn't realize it until I started playing the videos. It's a little hard to understand. But another gentleman who lived in the triangle growing up, the Wolds are very popular in Yorkshire. And this one, just happens to be the strangest,

the most activity reported, everything from fairies to ghosts, to shapeshifters, and even werewolves. Old stinker, as Mike has said. Yeah, the old stinker myth. Very endearing title for that creature. Old stinker. I think so. They'll never forget that. Somehow, he just never quite

made it into the annals of the literature like Mothman did, but, you know, somehow he's still there. No one could talk to it. The myth petriads him. Old stinkered. So yeah, that was a really interesting one too. A lot of history behind that. Again, megaliths in the area.

So make of that what you will. But more legend and lore, I think, with something like that than any actual triangle mystery, I would say. And I'm trying to put this mic down for Micah. Or I'm sorry, Hakeem, without banging it on the table, just to get it more centralized. Actually, I prefer to go by Rick Nedfern. There's a picture of you in my book.

Rick Ned from. When you had longer hair. The ponytail days. Yeah, the ponytail days. The leather jacket. Then were the days. I was such a Beatles fan, too. Especially Paul McCartney.

Yeah. Oh, no. Yeah, it really was. It was good stuff. Mike, I just put out a, just on the day you gave your talk, put out the new edition of magic, mysticism, molecule. Yes.

Yeah, that's true. In fact, with a beautiful new cover and a hundred, what, 40 extra pages? It's about 125, I think,

new extra pages. You know, the funny thing is it will be available for purchase on Amazon I think after this weekend. So, but yeah, the actual thing,

we were literally standing in the hotel lobby, Greg and Ryan and I and I had the actual proof, the PDF of the print proof that we were looking at there.

So definitely first time I've been able to go a conference and be like, hey guys, guess what? You know, the new books could be coming out, you know, like this weekend. So just in time not to have it here for sale. Yeah, I think I love that.

So really planned that one well. But, you know, it was a really good time getting up here. And, you know, we've, I mean, I think really this has been unique because in addition to the lectures and the conference, I mean, those here present have spent several days traveling around. And Paul, being our tour guide and taking us around me, I've enjoyed this as much as anything. for the sightseeing and the places we went, like Oak Island, you said. But, yeah, as far as the magic mysticism, the molecule thing goes, it's, you know, an old book, seven years old now,

new addition with some new experiences, you know, a full source citation job where we've gone through. All the sources are now in-text citations, along with complete bibliography and new expanded index, and notes on every chapter. So the idea is to really, I want to play up the anthropological, logical wonder of mystical experience altered states of consciousness

you ever had anything like that happen guys I mean you want to here ever experienced an altered state of consciousness every time I go to Arby's yeah awesome I appointed the trip got to take these guys to the Bridgewater Arbys yeah the Bridgewater Arbys or I thought it was the Arby's triangle yeah the Arby's triangle

yeah yeah Bilge water that's right yeah it was a damn good Rubin too I will say here it really was but yeah you know the altered States. I mean, actually happen in a lot of different ways. Have you? Yeah, I absolutely have. In fact, something

I was going to tell you guys. But all naturally, man. All naturally, yeah. I'm not fully straight edge, but gosh, I guess I'm getting old and boring because I don't drink as much, you know, as I used to. I certainly don't do the drugs. I kind of got on, well, no, there's one thing I'm absolutely addicted to him. That's black coffee. I love

my black coffee scrying session every morning, you know? Yeah, doing the beer gazing. But that, all kidding aside, if you're sitting there with your, you know, your It helps if it's black coffee because then you've got a dark reflective surface. I will actually, all kidding aside, do that. I'll take my coffee and sometimes I'll just be kind of sitting there and meditating. And I know that sounds kind of cliche, but I mean, I also really do like to meditate.

I like to do yoga. I like to have a little quiet time in the mornings. And sometimes I'll just, you know, kind of, you know, do a breathing thing. And I'll look into my black coffee and stare into that indirect optical depth of the, you know, it's a kind of an illusory experience where you're looking into the black. coffee and you just kind of let your eyes relax and then let your mind wander and yeah you can absolutely scry

like that there was a guy back in the 1890s I thought it might have been no it wasn't I can't remember his name but he used to say that he was so good he could scry by looking at the reflection of light off his thumbnail and for those who aren't familiar with the term scrying is just mirror gazing it's the ancient practice looking into a reflective

surface and attempting to induce an altered state but often people will do this for purpose of reading the future or gleaning other information. And, of course, one of the things we emphasized in a lecture was Dr. Raymond Moody's research with the psychomantium, which was the concept of borrowing from an idea he believed the ancient Greeks might have done

that was representative of a literal oracle of the dead near Thesprocia in ancient Greece, rather than just a mythic location referenced in, you know, Homer's writing and other places. I mean, Moody thought it was probably real and that mirror-gazing was what allowed people to speak with apparitions of the dead and that indeed in therapeutic counseling sessions he did throughout the probably the 80s and 90s mostly he said that many people would engage in this

psychomantium this variety of mirror-gazing experience where they too would see apparitions of deceased loved ones but I always like to point out there that while that may sound really kooky and strange to people I asked moody I said are they is he seeing I mean are people seeing ghosts what's going on he says oh no no no No, no, no, I think it's really their imagination. This is something about the way that the mind works, but he says what we need to remember is that there is a common experience, you know, innate to human, referenced in all different kinds of cultures

and varieties of different literature that describes apparitional experiences with reflective surfaces. You know, I know you guys do a lot in the way of ghost hunting. We did a lot of ghost hunting with Paul over the weekend. Do you guys ever use the mirrors when you're on location? At first, I didn't think it was real. I woke up to this blinding light, and I was transported to another place. Pluto TV.

Then I heard a voice. Come with me if you want to live. There were thousands of movies and shows, and they were all free. The truth is our city. It's just so beautiful. On Pluto TV, free streaming of Terminator 2, Fringe Arrow, the 100 NX files may cause excitement, loss of sleep, and sudden belief in extraterrestrials.

No credit cards or alien encounters necessary. Pluto TV, stream now, pay never. Only one. We set up camera out. in a place called Ottawa House in Parsboro. It's probably a Cumberland County Museum in Amherst, the most haunted place we had. And we tried to use it, different camera angles to see if things, you know, shadow people have been reported kind of thing. So see, instead of seeing, if you could see them on the wall, maybe you could trick them and catch them in the mirror and stuff.

Didn't find anything. Lots of other than that, lots of other than that, no, never really used the mirror kind of thing. But we definitely had some fun stuff going on. there at the History Museum with you. Yeah. Especially for Micah and I, well, I mean, I'm sorry,

Ryan and I, Micah probably has experienced some of these things before I hadn't. You guys have never really done like the ghost hunt before. I did last year when we went to the theater, the old theater, what's it called? The Astor Theater in Liverpool.

In Liverpool. We did a ghost hunt there. We really got nothing except for Kelly said she saw a shout going by one in one of the rooms upstairs. I didn't see it. So I didn't get to experience that. But this time, what happened?

What, what, what, what, what, uh, yeah. Like, everybody can actually talk about it. I'll take, I'll take last. Absolutely. Yeah. So, I mean, I've been on ghost walks, ghost tours. I've never been on a ghost investigation. Um, and, you know, like Paul told us all,

it is not like you see on television, most shows. And things don't just pop out the second you get there. you know, you are waiting around. Everything's extremely subjective most of the time. However, there was one moment when we were in the activity room, was it called? Just with the little girl? Yes. Yeah, that's the activity room where they keep a lot of their,

a lot of historical exhibits related to children, actually. Okay. So toys in particular. Right. A lot of old toys from the 19th century in there. Right. So, you know, going in, our host at the museum, Linda, told us about this young girl named Lucy,

who's been often reported there, and that she is missing a toy. She's always looking for a toy. So we're in this room with Paul and your assistant. I wasn't there, actually. You were not there. I was upstairs in the void, which is an archival, large archival storage area,

where you can literally turn the lights out and you can't see a thing that's no light. But I could hear you guys, which is what Ryan's about to tell you is how crazy it is. they were using the ghost box. I was upstairs with two doors between us. I could still hear what they heard through the ghost box and I went, holy crap.

Because I was sitting in complete darkness when I heard it. And then all of your reactions like, whoa, and, uh, kind of thing. So the ghost box. We have a machine. Yeah, can you explain that to this box? I mean, I sort of get it, but... Sure, yeah, it's a device that I actually didn't want to get for the series because I thought

it was dumb, because I'd seen ghost adventures or something used it before. Holly, my co-host, prevailed upon me to do it. Cool. My brother is our production manager, said, look good for television. And so what it does is it cycles through various radio stations and frequencies in whatever area you're in. So down in Liverpool, there's a number of radio stations.

And it just cycles through them at different speed rates, AM and FM. You can set it up in all sorts of different ways. And the idea is it's one of these devices, like all of these devices. They're not ghost detectors or anything like that. But there are devices that if there's something out there, the theory is that they can use that.

to interact with you. So you ask the ghost, like, chich, chich, chich, ch' ch' ch' ch' kind of thing. And then you'll ask the ghost box a question, you know, are you lonely? Are you happy? What's your favorite color? I don't know. What if the question is? And maybe you'll get a response.

And it's a very interactive kind of experience. And as I was telling folks, when I was introducing the gear last night, because I kind to get drafted in to lead one of these ghost tours, I've learned. You have to commit. You have to sort of go in and say, you know what? skeptic, not skeptic, believer, it doesn't matter, I'm going to open myself up.

If there's something here to experience, I'm willing to experience it, bring it on. And the ghost box is one of those ways. You know, can hold it, muffle this out and go, you know, is there a little girl here kind of thing? And hold it out and see what happens.

And the guy you had, I think, leading that session, it was a much smaller crowd that time. Yeah, it was like four or five of them. Yeah, it was you, me, basically the speakers at the conference, Linda, there was one woman who was a guest participant, a paying customer because the museum takes the money and uses it for their fun.

Last night there were 20 people there, which makes it harder. But Dylan Garland, who was a cameraman on my show, director of photography, and eventually got drafted in. So many weird things happened to him. And he was a skeptic when he went in. By the time the first season ended, he was on camera as well as off camera. Because he just got, when you're there, it drags you in. So you experienced a bit of that.

That's the very long-winded lead-up for what happened. Because what happened, it was really cool. It was pretty cool. I will admit, I was very closed off when I first got there. You know, I would say out of the one, two, three, four of us, I'm probably one of them the less skeptical when it comes to UFOs. I do lean more on the believer side. However, when it comes to the paranormal, I've never experienced that.

So I was very skeptical going into it. I was very closed off. But for some reason, when we got in that room, the activity room, something just opened up inside me and I just, I was ready I didn't know what to expect, I didn't know what we were walking into, so we get in there and we're told that

it's been reported that there's a little girl. We're going through the ghost box and Dylan asks, are you here? We get a yes. You know, okay, fine, that's all plain and cool. I get how that could happen. Now did the yes sound like a little girl

or was it sort of yes kind of thing? It was It was ambiguous. I couldn't really tell. But I went along with it. I'm like, okay, I get that. I could hear a yes. The next was, we didn't hear anything for a little while.

Like I said, there's a lot of waiting around with these things. And then he asked, are you scared? And then we got a yes, like a solid yes. So then it was, again, a little ambiguous. It was a female. That much I could tell you. Young or old, I couldn't really tell. So at that point.

essentially voices coming from a radio that is scanning. Right, and the idea is that these are not necessarily the voices of the person or whatever, but they pick a word out of whatever's going on in the ether and we'll target that word and send it out to you. Right, ether meaning on the electromagnetic of all these radio stations. So some guys introducing a Paul McCartney song or some women's introducing a Rush song or something. And they'll pull the yes.

You're not talking to Richard Nixon through the radio. Yeah. Yeah. Which is a great title for a book. You're not talking to Richard Nixon to the radio. That's going to be my next book. For comparison, those who are familiar with the Transformers film franchise, of course, the character Bumblebee. Yes.

Bumblebee, that character speaks in the same way where his vocal processor is busted or something. So he taps into local radio frequencies being earthly terrestrial radio, and he speaks through that, you know, and he'll have a sound by of a John Wayne coming through, or he'll have a sound by of a DJ or a song. It's the same principle, but in a little box. That's pretty interesting. I got to remember that

for a description of somebody asked me, how's a ghost box work? I'll just go bumblebee in the transit. Exactly. That's how you need to do. I immediately knew what you were talking about. Same thing, yeah. So supposedly random,

but if it is working in the way it's supposed to be working, it non-randomizes it for the situation. Correct. Through whatever agency, it might be a spirit or whatever, it might be all of our intentions, but that is the operating principle.

Okay, go ahead, I'm sorry. So at that point, He asks us to sit down, let's get on her level. It's clear that she was scared. So we all bend down, sit down, and then immediately as we sat down, it really started to pick up. Everyone started sort of feeling a coldness and whatnot. And I just distinctly remember there was a moment when the ghost box started crying. It was not a voice.

It was not a random word thrown through. the transmission, it was a young girl crying, at least twice, I think it was, just a small whimper and then more of an actual cry. At this point, we all started really getting a little freaked out, and that was the moment that really changed the entire experience for me. I felt like I had two small hands on the back of my neck, like someone was hugging me, like from the front. Oh, you didn't tell me about that. Yeah, yeah. I didn't say it at the panel. I just wasn't ready, I don't think. And they're done that. Yeah.

That same occasion where you don't want to talk about it. You're still trying to process it. I was still trying to process it. And I remember feeling like the fingers on my neck more than anything. The hugging aspect is definitely up for debate. But I felt like someone was comforting me. I don't know if it was this young girl. But then this is the same point, I think, where you had something happen as well, right? A few people felt that she ran through the room, like there's a rush of wind. Like, she wanted to leave the room at that point. Yeah. And at one point, I think somebody said, I think that she thinks there's too many people in here.

And it's scaring her. And I thought, well, you know, I'll play along. And I left the room. I actually went out in the other room. And then I came back in and stood, like, near the entrance, but back in a little alcove so that I wasn't standing there to the rest of the group. And when I heard them saying something just went past me, was standing kind of looking at everybody around the corner, around a scary mannequin, which the whole museum was full of. And as soon as they said that, and they, they were kind of looking, I felt,

and this is very strange, I felt a tingling sensation, like goose bump sensation, start in the back of my skull, my scalp, travel down my neck, down the back, and all the way down to my feet. I can't explain that. I don't know if it's psychosomatic, but I don't know why I would think that that would be happening to me. And then it happened again a few minutes later. Not when they said anybody was running through, but it happened again. Very distinct, as if somebody was, you know, suddenly I was very cold on the back. Didn't feel cold, but it was like a reaction to cold.

Yeah. So that was a really strange bit for me. That's never happened to me. Yeah. Well, I mean, there's a certain commonality to some of this. I recall when I was a child, and again, you know, I do try to look at all this stuff as one or two things. Maybe there are real actual phenomena that occur. and this is something ghostly, as it appears to be or is popularly conceived of.

The way I look at, for instance, the ghost box, and this is my own interpretation, but I mean, I see that as being a, and I referred to it over the weekend a couple of times as a subjective experience, where really what you hear is your own interpretation. But nonetheless, I was fascinated by the idea of taking that device, and as I proposed to Paul, you know, take like four of them, and take four individuals, each person sits down, and they start asking questions. Those questions are probably going to be, unless there's any kind of like, you know, planning in terms of what questions are asked. Those questions are going to be probably influenced by the desires of or the motives of the individual asking.

But let's say that four individuals, fours are scrying with a ghost box. It's a different kind of scrying. You know, it would be more like using a Ouija board, actually. Right, right. It's a similar concept where really... Well, that's turning it. I was thinking of turning it inward because usually you're listening for voice. What about asking questions about yourself?

I'm sure it's been used that way. If you want to do this, you know, write down. But what I'd love to see is then have four different narratives that result from a conversation with a ghost box and see what the information in the narratives in terms of the questions people ask and then the information that they get back. Right.

See if there's any commonality. Now, with Ryan's experience where he's talking about, again, this sensation he likens to hands on the back of his neck, I remember as a child when my dad's father died. I mean, you know, I was a kid, and that was the first time I had to really kind of experience the death of immediate family member and that really you know screwed with me and the whole family um i was thinking about this just just the other day my um father coming home and he was so calm about it and how did you

say hey guys you know papal died today uh of course he's coping with the pain of you know the loss of his own father and meanwhile my little brother and i are just i mean i was in third grade or maybe fourth grade and so i was just like ah you know we all just started like you know freaking out and i remember we're standing in there and everybody's crying and everything but i yeah same thing, Ryan. To me and my little child mind, I felt great big hands resting exactly like you described. Right there is though comforting.

Which, again, if we compare that to these altered states, I think it's fascinating that, again, there is a certain commonality to these experiences in the ways that people describe them. And whatever the source of that, again, it's the commonality of the experience. What purpose does that serve? Is it a coping

mechanism? Is it an actual interaction with something? Is it maybe a bit of both? Is it come from within the mind? Is it an external reality that we interact with through perhaps a altered state? I don't know, but, you know, those are fascinating experiences to do the commonality.

And yeah, there was certainly a group altered state while we were doing this. Yeah. Yeah, you go into a room, you know, this is the cool part, is, you know, you dim the lights, and so you've got a dark environment. It really helped to have the mannequins all around the history museum, I think, that... I felt like I was in an Eccleston-era

Doctor Who episode, you know, with the mannequins come into life and chasing after us. but it definitely is a altering kind of an experience with the darker. There's an element of sensory deprivation to that which is conducive to a little anxiety which makes you a little

more on edge and you have weird things happen but also you maybe are literally perceiving your environment a little differently. Maybe that does actually open the mind to certain modes of perception that in our everyday waking awareness they are not availed to us. There's another thing I noticed that people

saying, oh, it's cold over here. This is a cold area, and I'd go over there and it's like, no it's not. But at one point, Dylan was walking away. He said, yeah, it is cold there. And I walked behind him. It was like I walked through a wall of air-conditioned air. Just in his wake.

Well, poor Dylan, because I joked, you guys were there when I gave my thing, I even put him up on stage with me once. I joked about how I tormented him during haunted and so did Holly, and he gets sucked into this world we live in. But one of the things that has consistently happened to me over the years.

And I tell folks, I think if there's something out there, it interacts with us in different ways it might be particular to us. So it finds something, and it's kind of your thing. So it's like when some people play basketball, they're good at layups, some people are good passers, some people are good at jump shots. You know, me it's cold. And so Dylan has developed because he stuck with me, this cold started hitting him. I saw him in a couple episodes we filmed.

The shivers down the spine, like he was frightened. You could see him. He was just saying, like, I don't know what's happening to me, and we'd hold temperature gauges next to him, like your temperature's the same. Right here next to your hand is the room temperature. There's nothing. None of us feel cold, and he'd stand in the middle of the room.

It's actually one of the more frightening scenes in the whole series. And you see this guy who went in as a skeptic, like, this is a gig. You know, Paul's a friend, and he's paying me to do this cool to be a camera guy. And this is now, I find a buck for every time he said, this is not what I signed up for. Yeah. You know, I'd have enough for... He said it again this weekend.

Yeah. again, it's like this is not what I kind of signed up for. But it opened his mind to all the possibilities. He never met McDonies. So he had no real understanding of when we did the Queens County Museum episode. I tried to conjure Mac Tonys. Long story. But Mac and I, before he died, we went for a long drive here in Halifax,

and we kind of joked that we thought it would be 50 years in the future. But whichever one of us went first, hey, come back and show the other one. So when I was doing this series this summer, I finally decided there was this rule. the void upstairs in the museum that has all these mannequins like Greg said and without heads. So I said well this is cool. I had Rear Admiral Zorgrod at

the time, you know, the stuffed duck that Mac knew and loved as well as much as I do. He was here tonight. And I had all these mannequins and I said, if I'm ever going to try and call down the spirit of Mac Tonys, this is cool. Manikins, the stuffed duck, done. And as soon as I did that and I thought the duck

would move as a trigger object. I hear Holly downstairs going, Paul, are you doing anything up there right now? And I went, yeah I'm sort of doing something and she said what are you doing and I said well I felt bad I said she knew Mac and it's like I'm kind of trying to call down the spirit

of Mac Tonys which I thought sounded lame when I said it and I heard this pause and it's like you need to come down here now so I go down and they're sitting in the activity room which is where this thing Brian was talking about happened and there's our REM pod which is a device that if you walk by it it lights up kind of thing it reacts to movements by it and the ideas if it goes

lose by it, it'll blub-blib-blip. But there is a temperature change light on it as well, which will go red. It'll bleep red if it's going up, and it'll bleak blue if it's going down. The one thing it's not supposed to do is stay on one of those colors consistently, or have one of those colors seemingly interact with you if you're asking it questions. Long story short, the color was blue, or Holly was aware that blue was Mac's color. He called his blog, the Post-Human Blues. And so we sat down and she said, you were trying to to call down Mac Tonys. As soon as you were doing that,

this thing, blue, and it's been blue, it's just not moving. It's staying on blue. And I should only ever blink. Right. So we turn it off. We pulled the batteries out. We checked everything, turned it back on. There goes the blue again. Should not be doing that. So we sat down, started asking some questions. And I went, if you're familiar with Star Trek,

there's an episode in the original series, where Captain Christopher Pike, because he's burned in a terrible accident, can only answer. He's like a little button. lights bleep and a sound. One bleep for yes, two bleeps if no. And Kirk's, you know, they ask him questions that way. So I said, cool, okay, one beep, one flash for yes, two flashes for no.

And we went through that all back then and it'll be on television. Funny thing. So last night, and Ryan was part of this. Greg, you came in and were part of it. The night before last. Sorry, the night before last. Same night as the Lucy thing, night of high activity. Same room.

I had gone back up in the void, almost the same process. Manikins are still there. While all they're doing this loosey thing up there, I go, look, Mac, we're going to try again. If you're here, and they left the activity room. I walked in alone with the REM pod, set it down, turned it on, waited a couple of minutes. I said, Mac, if you're out there, come on, like come on in, you know, because some of your other friends are here tonight, like Greg and Brian, people who knew you, or at least if they didn't know you, liked your work and respected you.

And boom, on comes the blue light. So I immediately yell for Dylan, who was part of the previous experience, and I'm like, you've got to get in here. And he walks in and Dylan's first, can I swear in your show? Of course I can. Swear your, swear away. Dillon's first reaction, he walks around the corner, he goes, holy fuck. Because he, the only time this device had done this in the 13 episodes, we've used it,

or when we've tested it here, was when I did the McDonnelly's thing in this location, here it's doing it again. So I think Ryan was the next one in. Yeah, well, Dylan and I, we heard some. thing when we were in another room and he and I immediately shot up and we were like, did you hear that? I was like, yeah, and he and I ran out.

And that's when we found you in the room. I think it, you know, you might have heard for all I know me. It might have been you. Yelling at it. That's when we ran in, yeah. So I explained this to you, I kind of go through the history of it briefly and I end the lights still on and I go, look, here's what I'm going to do. One for yes, two for no. Like, I need

you to start leaping, like moving. And then the light, you know, little pause and then the light starts off and on. And long story short, folks, don't want to monopolize the conversation. I eventually got around asking it a question. And the question was, is that you, Mac,

and are you fucking with me? Poo. And as soon as I'm not even done with the me, it went bleep yes, after having been solid blue. And it's like, we're all, whoa, kind of thing. I saw that one, actually. Yeah. And, you know, then there was some more stuff. And at one

point, then we heard a sound from upstairs in the void area, where the mannequins were, where there should be no movement, no sounds at all. There was nobody up there. Like something was moved kind of thing. During the Lucy thing, we kept turning upstairs. We kept tearing knocks and bangs.

I don't think you were up there then. I was. Depends on which section of the void you would have heard it from. If it was coming right over your head, wasn't me. If it was coming from further down? It was coming from different places. Well, some of it might be... Some was above us, some was over here. Well, above you, it wouldn't have been me because I was

stationary for the whole thing down in the corner of the room. Anyway. So yeah, you know, that to me, the Lucy thing I wasn't there for, I could just hear you guys. But to be able to go back and to replicate an experience whatever it was in the same place with different people. No Holly this time. She's hiking

the Inca Trail. But now it's Ryan and Greg and Dylan and I are the common denominators here. But different people come in and, you know, have the same thing sort of happen. Freaky. I don't know if it was Mac Tonys. I just know that I wouldn't write that possibility. build you off because it's the kind of thing that he would do if he had the ability to do it if he was out there and the ether.

What's really interesting about it is that you were in a unique position to have had that talk with Mack. Well, you know, if one of us goes first, and I tell you know, like literature as it relates to, you know, ghost of manifestations and, you know, the spiritual side of, you know, nature, it's rife with stories like that where somebody says, you know, if I'm the first one to go, I'm going to try and reach out, I'm going to contact you. you know, Arthur Conan Doyle, I think, had really sought to, well, actually, he believed famously in spiritualism and, of course, you know, the idea of ghosts and the afterlife, and his wife, of course, had been a bit of a medium. Harry Houdini is the one who had hoped to communicate with his mother and work with Arthur Conan

and his wife and was just not impressed with, you know, mediumship. It really drove him to skepticism, but there... Well, then he made the same deal with his wife. Yeah. Yeah. And there are, yeah, he did. And there was another great story, for instance, that, you know, for instance, what was his name? Jack, he was a country singer, and his name slips my mind just, it was Jack, oh gosh, I'll have to think of it, but Jim Harold, podcaster Jim Harold's the guy that told me this story. It's just one of the most interesting stories about a guy who, again, apparently was able to reach across from beyond and years later communicates to a friend of various people. specific message.

The drummer is rummer and you can't keep the beat. Again, I have to look that story up and everything, but, you know, for the proper context. But, again, the only point I'm making is that you, Paul, were in that very unusual experience or in that unique position to be able to have that talk with Mac and then you're able to, well, you know, carry out an experiment like that. That makes it all the more meaningful to me

and also, again, kind of, I don't know if it justifies the idea that, you know, it was Mac, but it definitely puts it kind of lays the groundwork for a unique situation that could involve that. Yeah. And then we went upstairs and... I was just going to say folks can go to the Radio Mysterio, Facebook page. I'm posting a picture now of what I think about to describe.

I'll let Paul post that, but we went upstairs. Dylan and Paul and I took the... What's it called, a REM pod? Yeah, the REM pod, which is ironic because Max Figger Band was not the Smiths. It was R-E-M. It was R-E-M. So the name of this device is actually the... of red and paw.

R-E-M-P-O-D. I can just see him then. That one. Yes. So we went upstairs and we're right next to the mannequins. Yep. And nothing's going on with the thing.

And then Dylan decides... And there's a taller one that's standing up. Yeah. And it's above all the other ones. So it's our level. Yeah, mannequin. And it has no head. So above the shoulders, it's just...

You'll see in the photo on the Radio Mysterio. So Facebook page, it's just like you could put something on that. if you wanted to instead of a head. And I had never thought to do this, but that's why doing this with other people is cool. You can get different ideas. Let's try this.

I thought it was, was it you that suggested this or Dylan? Dylan just did it. Oh, right, okay. Put the rem pod on where the head should have been of the mannequin. Yeah, he just went and put it over there and I was thinking, that's a good idea.

And as soon as he put it on top of the thing, the light came on. I don't think there was any sound, though. No, no. It was playing Scottish bag cartoons earlier, which is a totally different story. But the Mac thing, as soon as he put on it, it had been off, we turned it off, we walked away, we kind of close that session out, said goodbye to Mac. But then Dylan said, look, let's go up, you know, we all thought let's go up into the void. And I wanted to show Greg the mannequins too.

The void is the attic. Right, which if you turn the lights off because there's no external source of light, there's not even a security light up there. It is a void. you really can't see, so you have to take a flashlight if you want light. And plus is a cool name. It sounds better than the archival attic or whatever. So as soon as you put it, though, on the remod on top of the mannequin on this head, the blue light came on. And it's like, for Americans, like 80 degrees up there.

Yes. So this is the blue light that indicates a temperature drop. And there was no temperature drop. It was actually significantly hotter up in the attic than it was down in the, just the ambivalry. being temperature down on the first floor. So it stayed on. He took it off the mannequin and I believe it turned off. Yes. Leaving the thing on, he put it back

on the mannequin in this hot attic and it went back on again. Then we went, you know, we tired of this and went downstairs. As we're going downstairs, the thing, I believe it blinked red when we were in the coming down the stairs and when we got out of the attic into the

cooler lower room, it blinked blue again. Right. Like it's supposed to. Sure. We moved. away from, call it the Mac Tony zone up in the void, and then blinks red because, yes, there's a temperature rise to the normal ambient temperature. And when we go back downstairs, there's a bit

of a cooling, it's cooler, blink blue. That's how it's supposed to behave. And that's great. And so Dylan and I went in the second night last night, and we said, look, let's try this one more time, just as we're leaving, set it up in the activity room, and we said, you know what?

Both of us said, we kind of hope nothing happens. Because if something happens, the same thing happens again. Maybe. We have no idea what it is, but maybe this is just something about this room. We don't know. And so we sat down, did the, nothing, nothing happened. And we sort of said, thanks, Mack, because by having nothing happened this time, it helped confirm that what happened the other two times was maybe something anomalous and special, as opposed to something that just happened because you do it in this place. So, yeah, that was kind of cool, too. Sometimes when nothing happens, it's actually better than when something happens. Oh, sure, yeah, because you may have transient

phenomena, which is what you hope for, not something that's going to be a consistent feature, electromagnetic or otherwise, that's relative to that environment. That's one of the big things, you know, I mean, I remember for years I did a lot of this stuff, and it's very true. I got a little jaded because we'd go in somebody's house, and I'd be watching, you know, I'm going to put the air quotes for this one, ghost hunters, you know, with EMF detectors walking around, and they'll, they'll be walking in front of a wall saying, my gosh, look at this, we're getting so many readings right here's something about this area someone died right here on the other side of the wall there's a big screen TV you know and you got a really faulty wiring in old homes that was a

real fun gag and yeah I got extremely skeptical and jaded and and I even walked into the experiences this weekend with a bit of that attitude myself although I'm never just a down player I mean I'm fascinated to see these kind of things and plus you know again not just to you know smoke up somebody you're in but I mean I also know the character of Paul you know and I know the merit of your thought and I think frankly your thoughtfulness is applied to the unexplained. So if Paul says, hey, I'm going to be doing a TV show about ghost hunting, the first thing I said to him, I said, well, can I watch that in America? I would actually watch a show if I know Paul Kimball's involved because I know the way that, you know, his approach is going to probably, you know, be. And it's exactly as I thought it would be.

It's not spooky music and, you know, cheap scares. It's this, we filmed what we went in there and what we did. So last night, I mean, honestly, I was actually kind of impressed. by a few things that happened, which is very atypical for me in those experiences. And at one point, Paul is sitting with the ghost box and actually said, is there somebody else in this room that you would like to talk to, Ryan or Greg or somebody? And we all heard it go, Micah. And when I heard it, did you see what I did?

I hear it, and I'm like, and everybody else was like, that was Micah. There were like 12 people sitting around the table, and every head went up and down, like, you know, this is all the confirmation advice if you want. Everybody heard Mike. Everybody. I mean, I did too, and I can't, you know, no amount of skepticism can rule that out. We were all in agreement, it said Micah. So I go sit down and everything.

And beyond that, it wasn't all that eventful. It was almost like, again, like this pranksterish kind of, okay, who's the most skeptical? Get Micah over here, you know, that kind of thing. And sometimes, you know, that's what's not only fun, but so interesting to me about these experiences, is that there is this almost not maybe antagonism, but like you're describing with the, going into the tone zone, we'll call it maybe. you know, that almost that kind of playful interaction. Yeah, and you know, it's important.

We debunk some stuff too. Oh, yeah. So last night there was a lady there and we gave her our flare gun, which if you pointed at a particular spot or a person, it'll give you the surface temperature of whatever that thing is. And a graphic representation of it.

And a pictorial representation. Yeah, and then you... It shows you the temperatures of objects that it's pointed out. So, yeah, if you pointed at a wall and the whole wall is reddish because it's hot and then the shape of what looks to be a blue person shows up. Well, that might be interesting if you ever

see something like that. Especially in a completely dark room. Holly might have once, I haven't. But this lady's pointing it up at the ceiling, and it's towards the end of the night, and Greg and I walk in, it's on the , they're on this ship, this replica of a privateering ship, and she's, and Linda Raffius comes, and says, Paul, you get up over here,

take a look at this. And she's pointing it up, and sure enough, there it is, and amidst the red, there's this giant, glowing, orange ball. And, okay, interesting. and then she says, and yeah, there's another one right over here, and it moves. And if she's doing this,

I'm watching her move her hand. I go, no, it's like bad UFO footage. It's not moving, you're moving the camera. This is a stationary object. But so she says, well, what do you think that is? And I'm looking around and I go, hmm, and I start pointing it at the ceiling fans. And to myself, I say,

I think that's probably the motor in the center of the ceiling fan. But you know what? There's another ceiling fan at the far end of the room. I'll walk down there. And I think Greg, I ran into Greg down there. Or we walked down together. Put it up. Sure enough, there it is.

again. So as we're walking back, we both agree, it's like, yeah, it's the Senate. It's the same thing. I turned to Greg, and I said, look, I'm not going to tell them that. I don't want to be the killjoy at the party. And then two seconds later, I go, ah, fuck it, I'm going to tell them. And I said, yes, you should tell them. Yes, part of this, in the show,

nicely. Yes, in the show, we would definitely do that. But here, I didn't, you know, it's a group thing, and everyone's having a good time. But part of having a good time, and as I tried to explain to her on the boat, is if you can rule things out and say, this isn't anything, you know, anomalous, then like nine times out of ten or 99 times out of 100,

you can do that, which makes the one time that you can't, honest and special. And she didn't see it that way. So she, you know, there wasn't an argument, but there was a discussion where she said, well, no, I think you're wrong, and I'm trying to explain it and show her. And she just wouldn't budge.

And so I finally said, well, you know, we see folks, people see things differently, and we all have different interpretations. I was being Canadian. I was being as polite as I could. And what did she say, Greg? She had something about, well, you have to agree to disagree because I don't think that's, I don't think it's the fan.

Even though she was pointing it right at the fan. I know. And the other fan. I think that's the challenge we all face too. Let's take, for instance, the Fox Mulder poster. I want to believe. All of us in this room, I think, want to believe in all of this stuff. everything we talked about this weekend,

our main focus of UFOs, some of us, we want to believe, but we don't need to believe. We find, like you said, more of an excitement in maybe debunking or just finding a prosaic or conventional explanation for things.

There's going to always be the... It's just kind of like, okay, I can put that one away and start looking for things. That was the whole point of Project Beta. It was saying, you're trying to debunk it on it. It's like, no. Yeah. Let's get rid of things that we know are fake so we can keep concentrating on things that aren't and find out what those might be.

And that's a beautiful contrast to being a person who is skeptical in the sense that we go into this knowing that there's absolutely nothing outside the range of the average human experience and nothing that can be easily explained within that context and therefore we presume that whatever we study there's a logical explanation and therefore we will no matter what 100% of the time debunk it. I'm skeptical of that kind of skepticism because there isn't obvious, an bias to it. You know, a good skeptic on the other hand, like you're describing, Greg, let's go into this. Let's absolutely try to be skeptical.

Let's be willing to rule out all that can be ruled out and explain, but be open to the possibility that some things might not fit the simple designation of prosaic. There are perhaps things, you know, and again, whether those things come from within or they're indeed in the environment, whatever that is, there is an experience to be had and studied there. And as Paul said at the end of the, we had a very fruitful and fun speaker's panel at the end of the conference today, as Paul said at the end, you have to be willing to say, I don't know.

Always have that in your back pocket. I don't know. And if people aren't satisfied with that tough. You're not doing it for other people. You're doing it for yourself. Greg always likes to not take credit, but to be fair, Greg said that 50 times during his lecture.

It's important to stress, I don't know, I don't know, we don't know, it's these are, so I was just borrowing from Greg. But that was essential, and you know, Greg hasn't talked about his lecture,

which was on today, where he talked, you know, sort of about Roswell, the entree was Roswell 70th, and he gave a brief recap, 10 minutes or so, Roswell, and then he moved into all sorts of other theories

and his co-creation hypothesis and stuff, lacing it with, I don't know, but, you know, kind of thing or we don't know. And, uh, He asked me earlier tonight whether he thought it was well received. And I said, yeah, I thought it was well received. It was well received by the three guys sitting in the room with him here anyway.

And I saw Linda Rayfews. Well, they already know. I mean, people were not in the head. I'm not trying to do this. I don't want it to, it's like, I want everybody to have fun and know exactly what's going on. No, I want a majority of people to follow what I'm saying. There's a few people that don't. I can't control that.

But if most of the people in the room are engaged and interested and understand more importantly what I'm saying, that's what's important to me. Because when I did give the co-creation talk, the first couple times, people were kind of complaining and saying, what are you trying to say all this is made up? I said, no, not at all. Which is, I think

two or three times during the talk, I did say, I must emphasize I am not saying people are making things up or hallucinating. That is not what I'm saying at all. I really do think there's a source to these things and we have to find out what that is, but we have to get out of our own way. That was

the message of the whole thing. After I talked about Roswell, because Roswell was basically this is where we came from. Here's Kenneth Arnold. That's where Uphology came from. Roswell's turned into the kind of thing that we will probably never figure out and we shouldn't care. Move on to other things.

Move on to what is important, which is what causes UFO reports. I mean, that probably should be the next T-shirt. I pray down. I mean, a couple of things, you know, with regard to that again, unfortunately. And I'm not trying to marginalize anybody or pick on anybody but i mean oh go ahead okay well there's there's often there's

often a lot of like pretty simplistic thinking and uh again to your credit when you talk about that co-creation i'm very much a proponent of that kind of an idea that there is some element of human perception and almost again you know unfortunately it kind of became what i would call paranormal porn the idea of there's just this big overt beautiful gorgeous thing right in your face you know and that's going to be the unexplained real experiences with the unexplain are often and far more subtle. It's not going to be this full-bodied apparition

standing right in front of us. You know, we're all here standing on end. I mean, often if you go into like an environment and experience something haunting, it's much more subtle. A UFO sighting might just be, you know, a bright light, but something that behaves unlike any other kind of aircraft.

It's not going to be usually a saucer hovering over with aliens looking out the window and, you know, these kind of experiences, even the little synchronicities. They're only meaningful often to the person who experiences them. And many say there's absolutely nothing to that. But I sometimes think that, sure,

there are synchronicities that are just novel, and then there are some that are so damned profound in the way that they happen, you know, the timing. You know, there's a distinctive timing to the synchronicity experience that really is how one can gauge the importance of it, the efficacy of it, I guess, you know, in terms of its relationship. And it's a message to you. Exactly.

It's not for other people. But see, that's the thing is, however you want to choose to look at it, all of the above, you know, the idea that through the filter of human perception, and through the known senses, not just the five primary senses. I mean, we've got, right hooks about a sixth sense. Heck, we've got 20 plus senses,

you know, again, the ability to perceive heat and cold, pressure, you know, a lot of these kinds of things that are the lesser senses, but I mean, we react to our environments a variety of ways, and I think that sometimes

outside the range of the senses or perhaps even within the context of sensory awareness in ways that we are not overtly aware of, but nonetheless, capable perceiving the idea that there's an interrelationship between some stimuli and the human consciousness. And when Jacques Valet talks about things like control mechanisms, again, it's this simplistic kind of, oh, well, he's saying that they're done here trying to teach us and control us.

No, what he's saying is that there may be a variety of stimuli that interact with the human consciousness in ways that are, again, what we would call anomalous or foreign to the average everyday experience. This is why it always brings me back to altered states of consciousness, but I love the co-creation idea because of that. I mean, people, sadly, if they think of it as you're saying that they make this up or that they're hallucinating, that is a failure to understand the concept. Yeah, which is why I try to explain it very carefully and in a way that I can understand it so that I know other people can. Because when I first think of these things, I can't understand what the hell I'm talking about. Often you can't, yeah, because you're dealing with an alien concept. But that's the thing.

You know, if we want to understand this kind of stuff, that's one thing. I do like gathering data. And, you know, this is a gripe I've had about, you know, organizations like Mufon for you. Here's the gathering data. A lot of these ghost shows, you know, even if it's more entertainment, they still probably at times get some, what would be arguably some interesting data. But you get to a point where you have to get interpretive and you have to start looking at the data and trying to look for, you know, patterns, correlations, try to understand what are we doing with the data that we gather. How has this data applied in a way that we can constructively use in the future to help us learn new things so that we build a sort of a repertoire? a tool bag from which we can draw and we know, okay, this phenomena or this circumstance or this

idea or this setting, all these things. We know these factors about this. And from that, we can expect this and we can go about this in a methodological way that we continue to learn in an accumulative way. You know, so, yeah, I think it's important to be able to build off of things and have these interpretive concepts. And, you know, again, co-creation to me probably says your idea of the co-creation aspect says more about the nature of the way that the mind perceives.

unusual or anomalous stimuli than a lot of what we read about in the ghost and UFO books and things like. Yeah, well, I think it can apply across the board to different things. It may be less so with something like the paranormal or ghost hunting or even

cryptozoology. I don't think there's as much of an interaction like with the Bigfoot. It is, but it's in a different way. I think that a UFO thing is more ephemeral and more open to interpretation and open to crazy things like what is actually appearing there and does our perception of it change it physically for other people.

If there's five people in a room and something happens, something paranormal, does that mean we're all together co-creating whatever that thing is in the addition to whatever the thing is and where it's coming from? That might have been an operant issue in what happened this weekend at the museum. Oh, I'm sure. You know, so I'm thinking about that while all this is happening too. I also had this weird thing where I kept stepping away from everything and looking in the corners and looking behind us and looking where nobody was looking just to see what would happen.

I didn't see anything, but I thought that would be something interesting. Like if I ever have a UFO sighting and there's other people around me, everybody's pointing and looking, I'm going to do my damnedest to turn around and look the other way. This is a idea that Chris O'Brien has actually. Why you guys are dangling the cosmic carrot, what are you doing behind me? Gotcha. Cosmic yo-yo.

Yeah. Ah, I had the cosmic, see, that was my, that was my one tool that I brought with me into the, into the ghostly environment. I brought the cosmic, the gravitational wave detector. That's right. Yeah, I said, guys, you know, everybody's looking at. Were you able to get any data? Yeah, yeah, there were no gravity anomalies in the environment. All right, that's right.

Am I going to show what isn't there? I always carry this magnifying glass around with me. I didn't see that the whole weekend. Yeah, I always keep, you know, it is funny, these are simple tools, and a lot of, the time they're more for comedic effect. But, you know, I love to carry a pack of playing cards. You know, actually, a magnifying glass is great for, on the spot analysis. And burning ants. And burning ants. Melting little toy soldiers and things like that. The yo-yo is purely for amusement. Take Paul's toys away.

Taking my toys away now. Greg, I think something else that's interesting is the theory, the co-creation theory, is that opening up that consciousness, when we're dealing with, the UFO phenomenon, what you're doing really helps to move away from the ET hypothesis in some ways. Yeah. Which I think is really interesting because that's a lot of what we talked about at this panel as well. I guess not getting rid of the ET hypothesis.

No, no, but looking at the things that are possibly more interesting and fruitful. Exactly. Because people said, you know, what's wrong with the ETH? I said, well, it's like running on a hamster wheel. We haven't gotten any way. We're in 70 years running on that hamster wheel. I suppose it's an interesting, colorful, fun hamster wheel, but I don't think it's, personally, I don't think it's gotten us very far. It could be the answer, but it's not really that interesting to me. That's the other thing I emphasize.

It's like, people are saying, what do you think the euphology is doing? How do you think it's changing? What do you think it's going to happen? Where do you think it should go? And it's like, I've got ideas about that, but mostly all I care about is what I care about. And I know that sounds selfish. But what, you know, ultimately, I think everybody, only cares about what they care about.

Well, sometimes you could also make the argument that a certain degree of self-interest actually has a lot of benefit. A person who is passionate about something, you can only be interested in what you're interested in. If you're interested in nothing, something that you push your way through it, and there's a commonality of experience shared by a large demographic, you know, and you help other people by coming to personal discoveries and understanding of oneself. Yeah, I read a book about people like, I don't know, about Lincoln and Einstein, and people like this.

And what it said was a lot of them, one, they had a singular idea that they were obsessed with. Two, they have a support system of people that either agree with them. They can bounce ideas off of. They can become interactive with and find out, you know, and they can, you know, falsify their hypothesis with them. Everything. Just somebody that's so interested in what they're doing that it supports their growth in that area, no matter what it is. And that's why I, you know, I can say, well, I'm very self-ful. about this. Well, no, I have to interact

with people because somebody can tell me when I'm doing something wrong or inform me about something or I can inform them about something and they it lifts their boat and they can continue with whatever they're doing. That's what we're doing here actually. Absolutely we are. So this is why, you know, it's probably one of the main

reason why I do this show is because one, I want to keep my finger and everything and hear what's going on and I like talking to people but also I'm involved with a conspiracy with everybody I have on the show just about. in trying to move this in a direction, I think is interesting. And they're helping me do the same thing.

So that's why I like having people like you guys on. And I'm sure we all have our own reasons for wanting to help, you know, move that forward. Yeah, everybody has a, you'll have a personal motivation. But if you're lucky, you find people who have some of the same motivations, and then great things start to happen. I think one of the interesting things is one of you two who said it was that we're not into euphology to convince other people that UFOs are real. Like, if that's the reason for being interested in the topic

to convince someone of it, you're going to be miserable, absolutely miserable, and you're not going to get anywhere. That's a good point, right? You know what I mean? We're in this to talk to one another, to share information, and say, what the fuck is going on?

It's one of ourselves, you know? Yeah, yeah. It's, and again, there's that selfishness in that, that curiosity to want to find answers, but we might never find answers. You know, we had a few beers over dinner with Mr. Benal. And it was a, and in the midst of drinking, it was pretty sobering to hear, you know, what if we die and we don't know the truth, you know?

We just lost late Jim Mars. And, you know, he went to the grave not knowing. You know, we've had other people, we've had so many ephologists or UFO research, researchers going to the grave, not knowing. And I think we all sort of came to that conclusion. Like, we probably won't ever know, but we're okay with that. Like, you said at the panel, it's the journey. It's not the destination.

Oh, yeah. The word thing is Phil Klaas is infamous or famous curse. That's what I was thinking of. It's like, you will all die without knowing the answer to the UFO mystery. And people look at that as if that's a bad thing. Like, class certainly meant it is a bad thing. To which I would say, no, that's cool. I'm good with that.

Yeah, I'm fine with it. You know, what class? So will you, motherfucker. Well, yeah, true enough. But I, you know, it's, you know, for me, I don't need to know the answers. I honestly don't need to know if it was Mac Tonys the other night. Or if any of these things I've experienced are what I might think they are. Because Holly or Dylan or whoever's on my crew or with me might think it's something else. And I'm not going to tell them they're wrong.

And they're not going to tell me I'm wrong. And we all take something out, which is something weird happened. And it means something to each of us maybe in different ways. and sometimes it means the same thing too. So that's interesting as well. And, you know, you just kind of go home. I had to tell one cast member who we had to sort of let go from the show because she couldn't handle it.

She would, when the thing was over, you'd find her crying and seeing things that weren't there, like a stove light would turn on, she'd think it was the spirit of her dad father or something. And I said, you have to be able, there's a point where you do it, but you also have to be able to walk away from it and realize there's a real world out there, or two that we're in, and this is maybe us contacting something bigger, but it does have the

potential, I've certainly seen this in euphology, but I've seen it now in the ghosty stuff, to be a bit of an abyss or a whirlpool, and if you get, or an event horizon, you do not want to get caught in the event horizon at the black hole, and, you know, you want to make sure you still, that is a tough one. You're looking into the black hole, you can fire probes into the black hole and everything, but you don't want your starship sucked into the black hole. and sometimes people do go a little too far and it's like

you know, see you know, enjoy the trip. That reminds me of the I was on that panel in Roswell and they were saying well, you know, how do you propose to, you know, communicate with whatever this is? And I said, I think you should go and seek contact like, you know,

like people might do with a Ouija board. I just, because somebody on the panel said, I don't think you should be messing with this whatever is causing the UFO thing. And I said, I'm going to be unpopular and say, yes, I think you do. And there was like an audible gas, and I was like, well, and I brought up a valet's quote, you can study volcanoes from 10 miles away, but you're never going to really know what a volcano is until you stand right next to it.

Some people have to stand next to the volcano. Which you probably shouldn't do when it looks like it's about to erupt. Yeah, it's not like it's about to erupt. If you see warning signals, it's time to leave the island. Yeah, exactly. In the same way that if you, hopefully you can tell when you're getting sucked in too much and you just kind of go, whoa. and you back off. That's what I'm thinking, you know, for a UFO researcher who might be doing this kind of thing.

And the other thing that they should do, the other thing I was saying, they were like, whoa, you know, what if anybody does? This is that anybody can't do this. Why do you think they sent Neil Armstrong to the moon? You and I are, you know, a friend of ours probably couldn't have gone to the moon. We'd have freaked out. He could do it. He was that kind of person.

He had the training. He knew what he was doing. He had a motivation to do it. He had a support system. That's the kind of thing I'm talking about. You have to have the mindset to do this kind of thing. And Paul and Holly and the people on the crew seem to have this kind of mindset. I wanted to actually emphasize when we were saying the blue light about Mac and all that.

I wasn't sitting there going, my God, we're talking to Mac Tonys. I didn't think that while we were sitting there. I was thinking, this is interesting, if true. This is interesting. I wonder if it has something to do with Mac or if it has more to do with me and Paul or whatever energy we have going on. Or there might be something wrong with the Rem pod. Or it could be a trickster.

Yes. You know, the idea that there's some entity out there that lashes on to what you're thinking of and says, cool, I'll play this part. Yeah. I had ten different models going through my head while we're doing this, and I didn't latch on to any of them, and I didn't care if any of them were true. Yeah. I was just kind of

rolodexing. Could be this and this, and this, and this. Very interesting while it's going on. It could be this and this. And then it stopped, and I stopped the rolodex. If one sure-fire thing came out of all this, I know, you know, in my heart, that that will be that The new podcast that the four of us start doing together

will be called Interesting If True Somewhere Nick Pope is going, wait, hold on. That was my podcast. Interesting if true. But it's a good motto. It is a good way to look at it. It really is. Anders Sander, can you ask Micah please

about this mystery screws thing that he and Jim Herald keep talking up? I hope it's some new archaeological find. I do not know what he's talking about. please explain. Yes, C-R-E-W-S. The Mysteries Cruise is a cruise that I'm going to be doing.

Oh, Cruz. Yeah, yeah, it's a cruise that we're going to be doing... See, I heard screws too. Oh, so go. Get your minds out of the gutter. My God, I am so offended. Damn it, Ander, why can't you spell that properly? I am offended. Not at him.

It's the three of you and your gutter mouths, but... Get your mind of the gutter. It's mysteriescruise.com. the long and the short of this is, you know, Jim Harold and I, we've often on enjoyed doing podcasts together for a number of years. And so we're actually taking our shows to the Seven Seas, and we're going to be doing several days at sea in November. It's going to be Jim and I, and I'm going to be actually given a full-fledged lecture. Jim's going to be doing like a live version of his popular campfire podcast. I'm going to be doing a live episode of the Gralian Report.

My co-host and cohort, Mr. Matt Oakley, is actually going to be joining me on this. one of the rare opportunities he gets to come out with me and we're going to be doing the live show together there from the cruise show. Damn, I also wanted to do a cruise. Yeah, I know. I've been trying to get like Greg on a cruise for forever. I've never been on a cruise ever actually for any reason. I thought, oh, if I can give a lecture on one, sure, I'll go on one.

Exactly. That might be interesting. Or I might be bored out of my mind. Well, actually, during a conference, it doesn't really matter where you are. It's the point of being with the people there and with the other researchers and that interaction. That's the important part. So why you're not having on a boat?

Absolutely. As long as it has skeets shooting off the bat. It is a lot of fun. Rosemary Ellen Giley. I've got to say, of course, the wonderful Rosemary Ellengali. She's going to be joining us on that. But that's at mysteriescruise.com. That's what it is.

As far as the archaeology, I wish this was like one of the cruises we did last year, where David Childress and Mike Barra and I went to, yeah, we went to, gosh, Lamanai and all these beautiful ancient Mayan sites. It's no secret. Archaeology is kind of my thing. And while we were doing the investigations there at the museum this weekend, I'm over there like an idiot, you know, just pouring over all of these beautiful Native American artifacts,

you know, everything from pottery shards to, you know, arrowheads, spear points, things along these lines, pipes. You know, I'm just, people are like, what is that guy doing? I realize, like, you're crazy if you have a real interest in this sort of stuff. But, you know, that's a real passion of mine. And I'm, you know, yeah. So, but I, with history and archaeology in mind, of course, when we go down to Amber Cove and some of these more like resort islands,

you know, and do the little excursions. I was looking at all the excursions for this trip and going, ah, you know, some of these look fun, but I'd really kind of like to assemble my own. Okay, here's an old, like, you know, 1,500 Spanish fort. We'll go there. What? They're bioluminescent worms that actually hatch out on this part of the island

three days after the full moon from May through September. I'm going to go there. So that's what I'm trying to do. I'm trying to put together my own, you know, mysteries with mysteries of the weird with Micah, although I have to

admit, I'm thinking about turning my own short excursions into the interesting if true excursions. I'm just going to

keep borrowing with that. Every time I hear Paul come up with a funny catchphrase I have to like borrow them from

him. Well, no, I stole that from Nick Pope. Yeah, well, that's Mick Pope's crap that phrase. Now he's passing along

to me and somebody, one of you find folks in the listening audience, maybe, Anders Sanders? Is that, that's not RW is, No, I don't think so

Well, either way But yeah So hopefully that answers the question Mysteriescruise.com And like you were saying, Greg, but the fun thing is Anytime we can all share some time, some experience together,

you know, whether it be on that kind of a trip Or whether it be at an event like this And the real blessing here this last few days has been in addition to the event And the people that were there, I mean, the four of us getting to go And, you know, I mean, Oak Island You know, that was like on the bucket list,

right there. Hold on. It looks like Paul has discovered something. One of Johnny Mars old Rickenbockers is for sale. He played it on Strangeways Here We Come. It's $59,000 Canadian. You can afford that. It is down $26,000 from the original asking price of $85,000.

Okay, well, Paul better start an Indiegogo to get him that right now. Yes, that's, and get me some travel money for a conference or two. Paul is human and he needs to be loved just like anybody else does. Yeah, come to moon. and the sky. What time do you guys have to wake up here to go to the airport? I've got to get up at the 5 o'clock. It is 11.30 right now.

It's only been an hour and a half, but I said we were only going to go for an hour, and you stayed for a lot longer than that. So maybe we can stop now. So you guys and I, actually, I'm leaving later, but I might have to go to the airport at the same time. I'm not going to do that to you. Get some airport breakfast. Yeah.

Our host, Paul, Kimball, thank you so much, Paul. and made this thing the most wonderful, smooth, completely worry-free experience for all of us, I think. Well, thanks to Linda Rayfuse and the Crossed O' Paranormal Society and the Queens County Museum and Winterlight Productions as well, my business partners company who helped sponsor this, because for the last two years at least I've been able to bring Greg out twice, or at least convince them to bring Greg out twice, Aaron Gullius last year. twisting. Micah and Ryan this year,

cool people that I think, Liverpool, as you found out, it's a small little town, 2,000 people in the corner of Nova Scotia, but people come in small crowds, big crowds, but they keep, you know, they don't yell out when you're speaking like some of the bigger conferences

in the U.S. do where they go, you're wrong or, you know, no, it's reptoids or whatever. They sit there politely to the point where all of us at some point or another go, there's people actually listening, or they don't do the hares, I guarantee you they're actually listening.

They're listening, they're taking it in, and even when we're taking it in, and even when they disagree with you, being good Canadians, they'll walk out in the hall and blightly, you know, nab you by the bathroom and say, listen, I have a photo or whatever. So, yeah, thank you, Linda, and everybody. For the opportunity to bring these guys down

or up to Canada and then down to Liverpool. And hopefully there's a fourth one, and we can do it all again. Yeah, absolutely. I would love it. We're going forward to it. All right, there it is, guys. That is it for the round table.

Again, I have to send my sincere thanks to Paul Kimball for inviting me to the conference. to speak. Also, to Linda Rayfuse, the host of the East Coast Paracom. It was a little outside my wheelhouse, but I stumbled through and really learned a lot about the paranormal, and what may lay just be on the veil of what we see, smell here, and feel. I have no doubt that there are things out there happening all around us that we simply can't explain just yet. And perhaps one day, the paranormal will become normal. Please check out all of these guys you heard tonight. If you live in Canada, Paul Kimball's new television series, Haunted, will be premiering soon.

Greg's work can be found at Radio Mysterioso.com, and Micah can be found at the grailion report.com. As always, please rate and review the show on iTunes. It helps us gain new listeners and ask new questions. All past episodes can also be found at somewhere in the skies.com. I'll see you next Monday. Remember, keep your feet on the ground, but never stop searching. in the skies. To learn more, visit third kind productions.com.